Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Bam-bam on October 19, 2011, 06:22:22 AM
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Dorian was harder and drier but Coleman got more muscle pop and insane tapaer. Size is similar probably but Ronnies taper give the illusion that he have more mass than Dorian in some shots.
Edit: GrabiteCityDon
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=399369.0;attach=436725;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=399369.0;attach=436726;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=399369.0;attach=436727;image)
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Dorian
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Dorian, How the fuck is this even a question? Dorian looks like a human anatomy chart. I showed my colleague the Ronnie video, he raised his eyebrow, looked a few seconds and said 'big guy'. Showed him Dorian and he was 'holy fuck' and watched the whole thing.
Also, irritating gay ass rap music on Ronnie's video.
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Dorian and ..... here we go again. hulkster in 3...2....1 :P
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Dorian
It's a shame Ronnie never learned how to pose.
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Dorian's conditioning from 95 to 97 hasn't been matched by any other Bber with comparable mass. His arms were actually pretty good here; only his waistline was questionable. Ronnie had more pop due to the fact that he's nowhere near as dry as Dorian, naturally (if there's anything natural here) he looks fuller. Incredible structure though on Ronnie.
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another bad getdumb comparison. ronnie's lighting is shit compared to yates. put ronnie in the same frame with yates, and you would see how structurally flawed he is. grain, but blocky, small legs to upper body when relaxed, horrible arms and back looked dry but flat. at the top end ronnie is the better bber all day long.
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another bad getdumb comparison. ronnie's lighting is shit compared to yates. put ronnie in the same frame with yates, and you would see how structurally flawed he is. grain, but blocky, small legs to upper body when relaxed, horrible arms and back looked dry but flat. at the top end ronnie is the better bber all day long.
Careful...bunch of Dorian fanboys are posting in this thread. You can't dare disagree with them. :-X
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I'm a fan of both, and whilst they both had as many flaws as they did strengths i believe in this comparison Dorian wins. His condition is better, he has better quality in regards to his development (Ronnie is huge but not as defined) and i think that of the 2 he is far better balanced. Just my opinion on this one.
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same poses, (yes I know Dorian is totally flexed while Ronnie is not but still)
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I'm a fan of both, and whilst they both had as many flaws as they did strengths i believe in this comparison Dorian wins. His condition is better, he has better quality in regards to his development (Ronnie is huge but not as defined) and i think that of the 2 he is far better balanced. Just my opinion on this one.
damn beat me to it, lol, good work
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se how ronnies waist was so much bigger than dorians, if dorian had the the same structure of the black fella his back would look even more absurdly freakish
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=399369.0;attach=436727;image)
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the clip of dorian has obviously been sharpened while the 2000 gp vid is blurry
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=399369.0;attach=436727;image)
epic lower back wrinkles on yates
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the clip of dorian has obviously been sharpened while the 2000 gp vid is blurry
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=399369.0;attach=436727;image)
epic lower back wrinkles on yates
also, why you didnt make a FDB comparison too? Like Dorian more? ;D
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damn beat me to it, lol, good work
x2
Everything that needs to be said had already been. Ronnie has the superior structure and fullness, but Dorian is drier, better balanced and has equal or greater size. (Even with his shitty biceps)
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also, why you didnt make a FDB comparison too? Like Dorian more? ;D
epic quoting your gimmick account by accident. Lol
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epic quoting your gimmick account by accident. Lol
Hi Dorian
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epic quoting your gimmick account by accident. Lol
im not his gimmick u stupid asshole
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Hi Dorian
Hi Ronnie.
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Hi Ronnie.
lol
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im not his gimmick u stupid asshole
His gimmick, someone else's, doesn't matter slick, yore still a gimmick.
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lol
;D ;D
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Dorian looks so good that Levrone is pleasuring himself at the very sight @ 3.30 ;D
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Ronnie
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I'm a fan of both, and whilst they both had as many flaws as they did strengths i believe in this comparison Dorian wins. His condition is better, he has better quality in regards to his development (Ronnie is huge but not as defined) and i think that of the 2 he is far better balanced. Just my opinion on this one.
dorians condition? ronnies arms in the first pose are in everyway more conditioned and bigger and have lightyears better structure. His delts are rounder and fuller, legs obviously quite a bit bigger while dorian has ridiculous calfs. Dorians back is more conditioned from the waist up, while ronnie is more ripped in the glutes and hams. Dorian is owning on the calves. Ronnie just looks better due to having better genetics, he looks bigger, fuller and is close to the same conditioning. As you can see certain areas achieve more condition then others, bodyfat percentage isn't a global thing, it is elevated in areas on some people. Dorians arms are not as seperated nor conditioned as ronnies, while dorian seems to have unmatched back condition. Ronnie always has striated glutes even if his back is soft.
for example in the back double ronnies shoulder and arms are just better, his lower body from the waist to knee is better. His back is thicker but not a seperated, its a tough call.
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dorians condition? ronnies arms in the first pose are in everyway more conditioned and bigger and have lightyears better structure. His delts are rounder and fuller, legs obviously quite a bit bigger while dorian has ridiculous calfs. Dorians back is more conditioned from the waist up, while ronnie is more ripped in the glutes and hams. Dorian is owning on the calves. Ronnie just looks better due to having better genetics, he looks bigger, fuller and is close to the same conditioning. As you can see certain areas achieve more condition then others, bodyfat percentage isn't a global thing, it is elevated in areas on some people. Dorians arms are not as seperated nor conditioned as ronnies, while dorian seems to have unmatched back condition. Ronnie always has striated glutes even if his back is soft.
for example in the back double ronnies shoulder and arms are just better, his lower body from the waist to knee is better. His back is thicker but not a seperated, its a tough call.
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Ronnie doesn't touch Dorian in conditioning , I hope this helps.
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Dorian and ..... here we go again. hulkster in 3...2....1 :P
Hey Delta, do you have the rest of that video?
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Dorian video has been a little bit flatened, he is not so large.
Anyway, Ronnie kills him from every angle. Tell me one better bodypart on dorian's physique.
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;D
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.
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Dorian video has been a little bit flatened, he is not so large.
Anyway, Ronnie kills him from every angle. Tell me one better bodypart on dorian's physique.
Dorian has better abs and calves.
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Dorian has better abs and calves.
He has a much larger waist and calves don't count.
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dorian wins,and at that point in time dorian had a better back,calfs,abs,quads,hamstrings.delts a tie,ronnie had better biceps dorian better triceps and ronnie had a better chest,there you go!
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Dorian is making Ronnie's back look watery. No one has ever been as big as Yates with his conditioning.
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Dorian was harder and drier but Coleman got more muscle pop and insane tapaer. Size is similar probably but Ronnies taper give the illusion that he have more mass than Dorian in some shots.
And...here...we...go.... ..
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Ronnie looks like shit.
Dorian is King.
the only one who would argue is Ronnie's buttplug named pellius.
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;D
fucking love that picture.
Dorian is crushing the washed up Coleman.
1996 GP as I stated in my topic on Dorian is one of the best to hit the stage. 1996 Olympia was good, but if he brought the GP package to 1997 he could have won another 5 Olympias. That is just untouchable.
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Hey Delta, do you have the rest of that video?
ice that is the complete one from the blood and guts disc 2. the brit gp was posted here a few days ago. i dl'd it.
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Dorian is making Ronnie's back look watery.
der it is der. Im not Dorian fan, but he takes this one
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fucking love that picture.
Dorian is crushing the washed up Coleman.
1996 GP as I stated in my topic on Dorian is one of the best to hit the stage. 1996 Olympia was good, but if he brought the GP package to 1997 he could have won another 5 Olympias. That is just untouchable.
that is why i posted the vid. Yates at that show is sick. i was at the 95 olympia and this 96 gp condition blows that out the water.
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that is why i posted the vid. Yates at that show is sick. i was at the 95 olympia and this 96 gp condition blows that out the water.
fucking would have loved to see that.
95 olympia and 96 gp are probably tied for me.
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ice that is the complete one from the blood and guts disc 2. the brit gp was posted here a few days ago. i dl'd it.
Thanks. Too bad there isn't the full contest of the German Grand Prix floating around. Would like to see that.
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No one ever has been as full and dry as 96 Dorian at this particuler show, Ronnie bigger and better shape but not as dense or dry. I think the judges would go with Dorian on this one
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Coleman no doubt, Dorian didn't have any arms. You can't win a show with good back and conditioning alone..
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Coleman no doubt, Dorian didn't have any arms. You can't win a show with good back and conditioning alone..
retard
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retard
Do you even work out? ::)
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Do you even work out? ::)
he does. it's just not effective for him
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he does. it's just not effective for him
desperate underachiever :-\
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Dorian was harder
oh yeah? Did you feel him up during a muscle worship session? I always cringe when I see men talking about how "hard" a bodybuilder is
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Dorian by a country mile. No question.
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Dorian.
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You know who wins with this thread? Trolls. You know who loses? Dorian and Ronnie. Both...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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You know who wins with this thread? Trolls. You know who loses? Dorian and Ronnie. Both...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
(http://files.sharenator.com/MarkHenryRaw2_Funny_GIF_collection-s250x150-142925-580.gif)
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in all fairness, dorian only looked this full in this show, in all olympias he looked very flat IMO while Ronnie after 98 always looked like that or even better.
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:)
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ron at 247 would look small next to 255-260 pound Yates (who would be in better condition too).
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ron at 247 would look small next to 255-260 pound Yates (who would be in better condition too).
too bad there are numerous quotes from people that disagree
John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia
"With his incredible thickness and muscle shape, Coleman doesn't need to weigh over 260 pounds on stage to look big. When he won the Arnold Classic last year, Ronnie only weighed 247 pounds but he looked like he weighed 20 pounds heavier."
Dexter Jackson – Getbig Interview 2004
“I am not the gossip type. I let them do all the talking, and I let my physique back my talking up. I know Craig Titus was saying something like he knows that Lee Priest is 200 pounds, I’m 220 pounds, and he is 250 pounds, and all this shit, but what Craig does not realize is that his 250 pounds is not like Ronnie Coleman’s 250 pounds. See what I am saying? I think I have proven to everyone that size doesn't matter. You don't look at Craig and say 'whoa, that’s a big dude’. You might say that about Ronnie or Jay at 250, but not Craig.”
there's also a quote from Dorian about how numbers on a scale mean nothing; what matters is how big you look on stage
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ron at 247 would look small next to 255-260 pound Yates (who would be in better condition too).
Dorian with no gut could do the 202 show.
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too bad there are numerous quotes from people that disagree
John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia
"With his incredible thickness and muscle shape, Coleman doesn't need to weigh over 260 pounds on stage to look big. When he won the Arnold Classic last year, Ronnie only weighed 247 pounds but he looked like he weighed 20 pounds heavier."
Dexter Jackson – Getbig Interview 2004
“I am not the gossip type. I let them do all the talking, and I let my physique back my talking up. I know Craig Titus was saying something like he knows that Lee Priest is 200 pounds, I’m 220 pounds, and he is 250 pounds, and all this shit, but what Craig does not realize is that his 250 pounds is not like Ronnie Coleman’s 250 pounds. See what I am saying? I think I have proven to everyone that size doesn't matter. You don't look at Craig and say 'whoa, that’s a big dude’. You might say that about Ronnie or Jay at 250, but not Craig.”
there's also a quote from Dorian about how numbers on a scale mean nothing; what matters is how big you look on stage
I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab
Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.
Ronnie at 247lbs would look like a tiny-tit next to Yates ;)
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Dorian with no gut could do the 202 show.
That was actually funny ;D
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too bad there are numerous quotes from people that disagree
John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia
"With his incredible thickness and muscle shape, Coleman doesn't need to weigh over 260 pounds on stage to look big. When he won the Arnold Classic last year, Ronnie only weighed 247 pounds but he looked like he weighed 20 pounds heavier."
Dexter Jackson – Getbig Interview 2004
“I am not the gossip type. I let them do all the talking, and I let my physique back my talking up. I know Craig Titus was saying something like he knows that Lee Priest is 200 pounds, I’m 220 pounds, and he is 250 pounds, and all this shit, but what Craig does not realize is that his 250 pounds is not like Ronnie Coleman’s 250 pounds. See what I am saying? I think I have proven to everyone that size doesn't matter. You don't look at Craig and say 'whoa, that’s a big dude’. You might say that about Ronnie or Jay at 250, but not Craig.”
there's also a quote from Dorian about how numbers on a scale mean nothing; what matters is how big you look on stage
Dexter Jackson = shittalker and shitty mr olympia.
John Hansen = "mr natural" LOL never heard of this buffoon in my life.
no one gives a fuck about their shit opinions.
Yates is King.
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Dorian at 245 lbs looked smaller than Haney, and Ronnie at 247 lbs would make Haney look small
"Orlando, Florida, was the site of the 1991 Mr. Olympia . Haney was going for eight in a row, but for the first time he was up against a man who was the same height (5'11") and weight (245 pounds) in Dorian Yates"
http://www.ifbbpro.com/history-of-the-mr-olympia/3/
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Dorian at 245 lbs looked smaller than Haney, and Ronnie at 247 lbs would make Haney look small
"Orlando, Florida, was the site of the 1991 Mr. Olympia . Haney was going for eight in a row, but for the first time he was up against a man who was the same height (5'11") and weight (245 pounds) in Dorian Yates"
http://www.ifbbpro.com/history-of-the-mr-olympia/3/
Opppsssssss Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 and Haney was 250 ;)
Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:
"Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."
We can do this all day , Dorian would make Ronnie at his best 1998/2001 SMALL and soft and mis-matched
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Opppsssssss Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 and Haney was 250
lol, so you think you know more than the IFBB about bodybuilding? Why don't you e-mail them to tell them they're wrong?
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Granted neither are at their best but you get the idea ;D
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Opppsssssss Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 and Haney was 250 ;)
Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:
"Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."
We can do this all day , Dorian would make Ronnie at his best 1998/2001 SMALL and soft and mis-matched
another great pic. pics from that 93 photoshoot are in the top10 bodybuilding pictures of all time.
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lol, so you think you know more than the IFBB about bodybuilding? Why don't you e-mail them to tell them they're wrong?
Says the guy who claims McGough is wrong when he says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian? ::) and yes I know more because I have Dorian's book and Haney's book , they both give their weights for that contest , and I have multiple magazines with coverage from that contest , so yes the IFBB website is wrong , Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 , 242 in 1992 , Haney was 250lbs
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Says the guy who claims McGough is wrong when he says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian? ::) and yes I know more because I have Dorian's book and Haney's book , they both give their weights for that contest , and I have multiple magazines with coverage from that contest , so yes the IFBB website is wrong , Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 , 242 in 1992 , Haney was 250lbs
outed
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outed
You got me there ;D
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lol, so you think you know more than the IFBB about bodybuilding? Why don't you e-mail them to tell them they're wrong?
He is right. Dorian was 242 in 92 and gained 15 lb for 93, weighing 257 in said contest. Even though he only gained 15 lb, he looked a lot bigger because of the added mass, same as Ronnie did in 99 over 98, despite the weight difference being only 10 lb.
As for the thread, Dorian wins this. Only advantage Ronnie had was biceps - Dorian had better triceps and forearms. The difference in shoulders and chest were minimal. Plus Dorian was a lot drier, so all things considered, he wins over Ronnie. The only poses Ronnie would look better in would be FDB and most muscular.
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Says the guy who claims McGough is wrong when he says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian? and yes I know more because I have Dorian's book and Haney's book , they both give their weights for that contest , and I have multiple magazines with coverage from that contest , so yes the IFBB website is wrong , Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 , 242 in 1992 , Haney was 250lbs
says the guy who claims you have to see these bodybuilders in person b/c pictures lie yet disagrees with all the experts who have seen both live and say Ronnie is better, lmao
if you want to be taken seriously, then post a scan of a magazine listing his weight at the 91 Mr. Olympia. Right now, you look like a clueless anonymous person online who thinks he knows more than the IFBB
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in all fairness, dorian only looked this full in this show, in all olympias he looked very flat IMO while Ronnie after 98 always looked like that or even better.
Nope. He looked pretty bad in 2002, smaller and flatter than before he won the Olympia. Which is why he lost the SoS that year.
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says the guy who claims you have to see these guys in person b/c pictures lie yet disagrees with all the experts who have seen both live and say Ronnie is better, lmao
if you want to be taken seriously, then post a scan of a magazine listing his weight at the 91 Mr. Olympia. Right now, you look like a clueless anonymous person online who thinks he knows more than the IFBB
You mad bro? ;)
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We can do this all day , Dorian would make Ronnie at his best 1998/2001 SMALL and soft and mis-matched
:)
(http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2011/10/21//111021124222560017.png)
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:)
(http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2011/10/21//111021124222560017.png)
That's not his best ;)
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You mad bro?
not at all. I actually think you might have a mental handicap. So I don't take anything personally
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That's not his best ;)
It's from 1999 BFTO so between 1998 and 2001. :)
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not at all. I actually think you might have a mental handicap. So I don't take anything personally
Awww poor baby , you hate getting proven wrong huh? you hate when I pointed out your hypocrisy?
The IFBB website is wrong and I am right , deal with it.
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not at all. I actually think you might have a mental handicap. So I don't take anything personally
you are a fucking idiot. go back to bodybuilding.com guy!
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so much for Dorian making Ronnie look "small" according to ND, lol
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It's from 1999 BFTO so between 1998 and 2001. :)
No not between it was either 1998 or 2001 were his best showings
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so much for Dorian making Ronnie look "small" according to ND, lol
Hahahahahahaha silly boy they're not standing side-by-side are they? that's not Dorian's best is it? you're getting frustrated boy ;)
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Awww poor baby , you hate getting proven wrong huh? you hate when I pointed out your hypocrisy?
The IFBB website is wrong and I am right , deal with it.
thank you for proving my point. I didn't whine nor react immaturely. On the contrary, my response was appropriate given the context. You contradicted the IFBB's website. So I challenged you to back up your claim. What you fail to realize is that, despite your scanned pictures, you are an internet nobody. I called you out and your natural reaction is to invent an imaginary vantage by insinuating I'm acting like a baby and calling me a hypocrite. You act like someone who is mentally challenged. You are an adult yet you display the mental capabilities of a child
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Hahahahahahaha silly boy they're not standing side-by-side are they? that's not Dorian's best is it? you're getting frustrated boy
keep digging yourself a deeper hole ;)
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thank you for proving my point. I didn't whine nor react immaturely. On the contrary, my response was appropriate given the context. You contradicted the IFBB's website. So I challenged you to back up your claim. What you fail to realize is that, despite your scanned pictures, you are an internet nobody. I called you out and your natural reaction is to invent an imaginary vantage by insinuating I'm acting like a baby and calling me a hypocrite. You act like someone who is mentally handicapped
You are a hypocrite , I've proven that multiple times , kiwiol confirmed what I said , I can prove you wrong ( as usual ) at will if I wanted to it's not that big of a deal , remember when you claimed McGough didn't see Dorian live at the 1993 photoshoot and called me out and called me a liar and that blew up in your face? ;)
Neo as usual you are wrong ( and so is that IFBB link ) Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 and Haney is listed as 250 and 249lbs , he was slightly bigger in 1992 at 242lbs and in 1993 , 257lbs
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keep digging yourself a deeper hole ;)
Keep trolling , it's the only thing you're good at.
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thank you for proving my point. I didn't whine nor react immaturely. On the contrary, my response was appropriate given the context. You contradicted the IFBB's website. So I challenged you to back up your claim. What you fail to realize is that, despite your scanned pictures, you are an internet nobody. I called you out and your natural reaction is to invent an imaginary vantage by insinuating I'm acting like a baby and calling me a hypocrite. You act like someone who is mentally handicapped. You are an adult yet you display the capabilities of a child
He's right though. I'm the 3rd person to point this out. Kiwi also pointed this out. The ifbb website is wrong on his weight.
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You are a hypocrite , I've proven that multiple times , kiwiol confirmed what I said , I can prove you wrong ( as usual ) at will if I wanted to it's not that big of a deal , remember when you claimed McGough didn't see Dorian live at the 1993 photoshoot and called me out and called me a liar and that blew up in your face?
if you want to trade tit-for-tat, you are a hypocrite also. You are the guy who:
- says Ronnie/Dorian at their prime could go either way. Then says 93 ASC Flex would easily beat Ronnie yet would lose to Dorian
- for yrs, posted quotes to argue Dorian was better. Then when quotes come out saying Ronnie is better, they are merely "subjective opinion"
- used to always post the Flex poll from 99 saying Dorian has the best back. Then when the new poll came out with Ronnie#1, you claim they're wrong
- has been caught picking which quotes to accept or ignore from the SAME person, lol
- when a handful of quotes about Dorian agree with each other, it's "corroborating evidence" but when over 20 quotes unanimously agree Ronnie is the best, you claim it's "argument ad populum"
now I'm willing to put all that in the past and move forward, but we can continue to live in the past if you want ;)
Neo as usual you are wrong ( and so is that IFBB link ) Dorian was 239lbs in 1991 and Haney is listed as 250 and 249lbs , he was slightly bigger in 1992 at 242lbs and in 1993 , 257lbs
you may be right, but it's more fun to watch you meltdown. All I'm asking is for is a scan. I'd prefer not to take your word for it
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He's right though. I'm the 3rd person to point this out. Kiwi also pointed this out. The ifbb website is wrong on his weight.
He knows I'm right but as usual his pride wont allow him to admit it , that's why I call him a boy
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if you want to trade tit-for-tat, you are a hypocrite also. You are the guy who:
- says Ronnie/Dorian at their prime could go either way. Then says 93 ASC Flex would easily beat Ronnie yet would lose to Dorian
- for yrs, posted quotes to argue Dorian was better. Then when quotes come out saying Ronnie is better, they are merely "subjective opinion"
- used to always post the Flex poll from 99 saying Dorian has the best back. Then when the new poll came out with Ronnie#1, you claim they're wrong
- has been caught picking which quotes to accept or ignore from the SAME person, lol
- when a handful of quotes about Dorian agree with each other, it's "corroborating evidence" but when over 20 quotes unanimously agree Ronnie is the best, you claim it's "argument ad populum"
now I'm willing to put all that in the past and move forward, but we can live in the past if you want ;)
you may be right, but it's more fun to watch you meltdown. All I'm asking is for is a scan. I'd prefer not to take your word for it
meltdown , keep proving my point boy. ;)
and you have two other words saying the same , you don't wanna take my word for it because I own you and it hurts when I put you in your place
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meltdown , keep proving my point boy.
when I try to move forward and have a mature discussion, I'm having a "meltdown" according to you ::)
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when I try to move forward and have a mature discussion, I'm having a "meltdown" according to you ::)
you're a fucking whiner get the fuck out of this thread you fucking 2 year old homo.
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when I try to move forward and have a mature discussion, I'm having a "meltdown" according to you ::)
lol mature discussion? I actually think you might have a mental handicap. ( hypocrite ;) ) no on the contrary you're here to troll , nothing new.
You had three people who all told you that you and that sight is wrong , your refusal to accept this because you made a stupid claim that Ronnie at 247lbs would own Haney somehow translates to Dorian at his best. Once again you jumped the gun and ended up looking stupid for it and now are looking to divert the topic in any way
You Neo still don't know much
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you're a fucking whiner get the fuck out of this thread you fucking 2 year old homo.
oh hai gai
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Check the link sport , this was almost 6 years ago and guess what the weights I typed were ;)
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=84061.0
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The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that Ronnie was at his best at the 1996 Canada Pro Cup. He was 260 lbs, ripped, dry and had a balance between his lower and upper body that he lacked in '98. Ronnie's quads were a little too big and his calves a little too small for his upper body in 99'. His arms were just as ripped in 99' as they were in 98', but his back, abs and especially his quads were less defined in 99' than they were in 98'. Ronnie 2003 was a freak and I don't think that there has ever been a Human as muscular as him. There have been bigger bodybuilders, but they were all over 6'3 with large frames. A man at 5'11 with a small frame being 290 lbs with single-digit bodyfat is unheard of before or since. If bodybbuilding were all about muscularity, Ronnie 2003 would be the greatest ever, but bodybuilding is more than just muscular development. Overall, Ronnie was incredible and Dorian at his best is the only other bodybuilder who could realistically have a chance of defeating him. What would happen if they competed at their bests against each other is something that only I.F.B.B judges could settle.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia
"With his incredible thickness and muscle shape, Coleman doesn't need to weigh over 260 pounds onstage to look big. When he won the Arnold Classic last year (2001), Ronnie only weighed 247 pounds but he looked like he weighed 20 pounds heavier."
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John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia
"With his incredible thickness and muscle shape, Coleman doesn't need to weigh over 260 pounds onstage to look big. When he won the Arnold Classic last year (2001), Ronnie only weighed 247 pounds but he looked like he weighed 20 pounds heavier."
Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:
"Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."
he looked like he weighed 25 lbs heavier ;D
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ronnie
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^
LOL
not even close.
ronnie at that stage was in an all together different class than anyone else.
its just a massacre:
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post tear dorian always sucked
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^
LOL
not even close.
ronnie at that stage was in an all together different class than anyone else.
its just a massacre:
dorian getting raped in that shot by Nasser
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post tear dorian always sucked
fucking moron.
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Does anyone know how many days apart the British Grand Prix and the German Grand Prix was and which show was first? Here is Dorian from the 1996 British Grand Prix. These are probably going to be the clearest pics we have of Dorian around that time of both contests. If he was fuller and if his arms were better then I would agree that it was the best he ever looked, but he was no where close to his best.
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Set 2
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Set 3
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Set 4
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Set 5
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Set 6
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^^^ it's amazing how much better a blurry, distorted video can make you look. The contest pics say it all
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Set 7
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I have seen the whole 96 british GP and Dorian looked so much smaller there, everyone was outmassing him everywhere, hell jean pierre fux looked like 2x the size of dorian. very strange because it was a totally different story at the german gp same year (probably same month?)
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Dexter Jackson = shittalker and shitty mr olympia.
John Hansen = "mr natural" LOL never heard of this buffoon in my life.
no one gives a fuck about their shit opinions.
Yates is King.
::)
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^^^ it's amazing how much better a blurry, distorted video can make you look. The contest pics say it all
yup.
no contest between ronnie and dorian ever.
ronnie crushes him.
it would be an embarassment to dorian to see them standing side by side.
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^
LOL
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it would be an embarassment to dorian to see them standing side by side.
::)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/rh31ig.jpg)
(http://fullspike.com/bodybuilding/bodybuilders/_images/dorian-vs-ronnie/dorian-yates-vs-ronnie-coleman-back_533x400.png)
(http://www.learn-bodybuilding.com/images/bb/dorian3_front_lat_spread.jpg)(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMgLhoJ4m0I_FRzxNLhukSX3sEQ1_7upt0dMb1NUPmtdZjAf8DaAWiKrTP_g)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=230956.0;attach=270579;image)
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LOL part 2 8)
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::)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/rh31ig.jpg)
(http://fullspike.com/bodybuilding/bodybuilders/_images/dorian-vs-ronnie/dorian-yates-vs-ronnie-coleman-back_533x400.png)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=230956.0;attach=270579;image)
2003 ronnie despite the hype wasn't that great.
his look 30 pounds lighter destroyed his 2003 look.
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Much Much better physiques in that contest. Dorian looked like an unhealthy bag of shit..such a washed up and tired body.
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^^^ it's amazing how much better a blurry, distorted video can make you look. The contest pics say it all
Yeah they say he beat Ronnie in this contest with ease ;)
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"word salad" HAhahHAha
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Dorian CLEARLY wins this. Hands down, the driest hardest man bodybuilder ever to walk the planet. I am clearly enamored with this erect, hard man. It's all I can think about!!!
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Dorian CLEARLY wins this. Hands down, the driest hardest man bodybuilder ever to walk the planet. I am clearly enamored with this erect, hard man. It's all I can think about!!!
HARD as cock
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not to long ago i posted that i thought ronnies best ever was a bit better than dorians,well i was wrong,clearly ronnie was never as dry as yates and only in 2003 was he bigger,but not by a lot.dorian clearly is KING!
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there's also a quote from Dorian about how numbers on a scale mean nothing; what matters is how big you look on stage
This is why bodybuilding has become so stupid.
The more balanced and proportionate you are, the bigger you will look.
It is really very simple.
If a balanced physique did not look bigger, how on earth did Labrada, Ray and Dexter become so successful? I mean, Labrada was second to Haney two times. Ray second to Yates and Coleman. Dexter won the damned thing!
People are so dumb.
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As the years pass you start to realize that Yates's dryness will never occur again, no one even comes close to his grainy, granite dryness
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As the years pass you start to realize that Yates's dryness will never occur again, no one even comes close to his grainy, granite dryness
Anyone know why?
I suspect he just had some crazy genes for being dry, but there could be other factors. Maybe he MEGA DOSED to a level no one dares go to? Like 1gram masteron ED or something? GH15 has never spoken of Dorian, never leant his opinion. Wonder why...
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While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Ronnie doesn't touch Dorian in conditioning , I hope this helps.
im sorry appealing to authority and opinion hold little water here, the pictures are obviously a better method of deducing truth. Bias and context alter human perception so much not to mention that human memory is all but useless in these types of debates. There is quotes on both sides, there are "experts" who say phil heath was the best ever, the only way to settle this subjective argument is use the most objective piece of evidence possible, if what people claim does not match the pictures, videos then we can conclude that there opinion is bunk. In a court of law a man could say he was ten feet wide and had blond hair, if a picture shows otherwise, what do you think the logically conclusion is?
how do you discern condition visually? what criteria are you using and why? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
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Anyone know why?
GH15 has never spoken of Dorian, never leant his opinion. Wonder why...
I think he has. In fact, I think he considers him top 3 of all time.
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Personally, Yates. In modern bodybuilding judging, Coleman sweeps it.
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Anyone know why?
I suspect he just had some crazy genes for being dry, but there could be other factors. Maybe he MEGA DOSED to a level no one dares go to? Like 1gram masteron ED or something? GH15 has never spoken of Dorian, never leant his opinion. Wonder why...
It's genetics, naturally thin skin. Dorian has nearly perfect bodybuilding genetics if you consider everything; good proportions, large calves, thin skin, low lats, mesomorph body type, great drug response.
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dorian was also one of the most intelligent bodybuilders he thought out each process.
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dorian was also one of the most intelligent bodybuilders he thought out each process.
True, with his unflinching mentality and thinking process I think he would've done what takes to win in any era period
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im sorry appealing to authority and opinion hold little water here, the pictures are obviously a better method of deducing truth. Bias and context alter human perception so much not to mention that human memory is all but useless in these types of debates. There is quotes on both sides, there are "experts" who say phil heath was the best ever, the only way to settle this subjective argument is use the most objective piece of evidence possible, if what people claim does not match the pictures, videos then we can conclude that there opinion is bunk. In a court of law a man could say he was ten feet wide and had blond hair, if a picture shows otherwise, what do you think the logically conclusion is?
how do you discern condition visually? what criteria are you using and why? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
Appealing to authority and opinion holds little water here except your opinion? ??? a bit hypocritical?
Pictures are good but there are to many variables to ' deducing the truth ' pictures pale in comparison to actually being live and in person at a show. Pictures vary in quality , compression , resolution , and the source where they originally came from. couple that with the fact that not everyone looks the same in pictures as they do in person an attribute that has been said of Dorian and his conditioning repeatedly , it's the reason shows are judged live and not on photos
And as far as experts saying Phil Heath was the best , I'm using these quotes to only show Dorian had the advantage in conditioning not some hypothetical contest of Olympia champions. And it's not just one person who said Dorian had the advantage in conditioning , He's said so in direct reference to a hypothetical meeting of the two. And I could post countless quotes in reference to Dorian's legendary conditioning
Why his opinion is correct and unbiased , one because he has eons of experience in the sport of bodybuilding and has been both of the guys in question live and in the flesh , through out their entire careers on-stage and off-stage at their best and their worse , this beats looking at pictures and you mentioned court , in a court of law he would be called as an expert witness if anyone.
Two he's unbiased because he said although he felt Ronnie was the best physique he's seen , Dorian still had better conditioning than him and that's even at Ronnie's best. ( although he had cause to rethink that position about Ronnie being the best physique )
how do you discern condition visually? what criteria are you using and why? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
Again this is an experts opinion on who is better conditioned not mine , I just happen to agree with it , and the obvious who is better conditioned is who is holding the least amount of water and who is the hardest , qualities which can only truly ascertained live and in the flesh , which is why I take this on opinion of an unbiased expert rather than from crappy Youtube videos or 2D photos, the layperson can see details , and dryness and striations , etc on photos and video but that doesn't tell the whole story , again you have to factor in not everyone looks the same in photos as they do in person , some look better and in Yates' case , some look worse , Bob Chick , Kevin Horton , Peter McGough and Dorian himself , as well as others have touched on this very subject
There are enough quotes on the subject of Dorian's legendary conditioning to safely say he has an advantage in this department over Ronnie and most others , a lot of people base conditioning on striations which is only part of the equation and mostly genetic ( although one needs to be greatly conditioned in order to see them , but amount and placement are largely genetic ) this is where Dorian's advantage lied over his competition
Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.
Now couple this with Dorian's dryness ( thin skin ) and his fullness ( muscular bulk ) it's this combo that is rarely accomplished and which is why many feel when he competed to be the best era in bodybuilding and he was on the fore-front of that.
I always said for the sake of argument that Ronnie might have matched this type of conditioning at his very best in 1998 and in 2001 at his lightest ( 249lbs and 247lbs respectively ) but Dorian could do it at much higher bodyweights , like in 1993 at 257lbs and in those black & white photos at 270lbs , Ronnie got progressively softer and carried more water the higher his bodyweight went , evidenced from 98-99 and from 99-00
This picture illustrates exactly why Dorian stands alone in size , density and dryness.
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True, with his unflinching mentality and thinking process I think he would've done what takes to win in any era period
He would measure his food to the gram , he stated he would start training for the next years Olympia the next day after he won this years , he had everything mapped out to the slightest detail and never deviated from his routine
Dorian once said Flex was lamenting on how he wished he could look like he did the previous year and Dorian said ' what was your training like last year ' and his response was ' I don't remember ' this is part if the reason Dorian dominated and Flex was hit-or-miss
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im sorry appealing to authority and opinion hold little water here, the pictures are obviously a better method of deducing truth. Bias and context alter human perception so much not to mention that human memory is all but useless in these types of debates. There is quotes on both sides, there are "experts" who say phil heath was the best ever, the only way to settle this subjective argument is use the most objective piece of evidence possible, if what people claim does not match the pictures, videos then we can conclude that there opinion is bunk. In a court of law a man could say he was ten feet wide and had blond hair, if a picture shows otherwise, what do you think the logically conclusion is?
how do you discern condition visually? what criteria are you using and why? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
as Emeril Lagasse would say, "BAM!" Too bad ND will come up with some roundabout reply that avoids providing any objective evidence. This is how you can tell when he knows he's fighting a losing battle
"umm, so-and-so said this. Therefore, I'm right" ::)
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anyone that ever displayed conditioning equal to yates did so at a lighter bodyweight and never did it as consistently as yates.
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Aren't we tired of this shit yet?
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NOPE!
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Dorian wins front lat spread. Ronnie kills him in everything else.
And I'm a Yates fan.
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Nobody wins who uses drugs >:(
Ron vs Dorian is an epic white versus black man battle - one can't beat the other.
Kohlman has way better muscle shape but Dorian is as solid as a granite block and looks like the most imposing bouncer on earth.
For me Dorian looks cooler and colman better.
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as Emeril Lagasse would say, "BAM!" Too bad ND will come up with some roundabout reply that avoids providing any objective evidence. This is how you can tell when he knows he's fighting a losing battle
"umm, so-and-so said this. Therefore, I'm right" ::)
Actually Nd and I debate a lot especiacially about religion but in his recent posts in this thread he is spot on, not only spot on but Necrosis's theory has 1 flaw, of the thousands of people that have watched Dorian live comment that the tecture of his skin (grainyness) is shocking in live mode as opposed to pictures, so even if everything is identical between Ronnie and Dorian in picture let's say, Dorians live version would be a clear advantage no matter how you slice it, oh and how often did we here that Dorians looked dramatically different in live mode?, millions of times
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Actually Nd and I debate a lot especiacially about religion but in his recent posts in this thread he is spot on, not only spot on but Necrosis's theory has 1 flaw, of the thousands of people that have watched Dorian live comment that the tecture of his skin (grainyness) is shocking in live mode as opposed to pictures, so even if everything is identical between Ronnie and Dorian in picture let's say, Dorians live version would be a clear advantage no matter how you slice it, oh and how often did we here that Dorians looked dramatically different in live mode?, millions of times
the same argument can be made for Ronnie. Several experts who have seen him in person say he looks 20-30 lbs heavier than his actual bodyweight due to his bone structure and muscle bellies.
Peter McGough - Flex, August 2005
"Personally, the best physique I ever saw onstage was Ronnie's at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic. He was cut, full, trim in the waist and a monster (proving that when you're supersharp, you look superbig) at 244 pounds. Ronnie sporting that look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."
Team Flex – Flexonline.com, November 2004
“For whatever faults he may possess, Ronnie Coleman is quite possibly the most impressive physical specimen walking the earth today. Pictures do not do him justice. When he stands relaxed muscle literally hangs from his frame, as if his skin can no longer support the pendulous masses of flesh he has forged with untold tons of iron and steel. It’s difficult to imagine anyone surpassing Big Ron’s level of mass in this, or any, lifetime.”
John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia
"With his incredible thickness and muscle shape, Coleman doesn't need to weigh over 260 pounds on stage to look big. When he won the Arnold Classic last year, Ronnie only weighed 247 pounds but he looked like he weighed 20 pounds heavier."
Dexter Jackson – Getbig Interview 2004
“I am not the gossip type. I let them do all the talking, and I let my physique back my talking up. I know Craig Titus was saying something like he knows that Lee Priest is 200 pounds, I’m 220 pounds, and he is 250 pounds, and all this shit, but what Craig does not realize is that his 250 pounds is not like Ronnie Coleman’s 250 pounds. See what I am saying? I think I have proven to everyone that size doesn't matter. You don't look at Craig and say 'whoa, that’s a big dude’. You might say that about Ronnie or Jay at 250, but not Craig.”
I also have quotes saying Ronnie at the 01 ASC was dry and shredded.
Jim Stoppani - Flex, July 2005
"Has anyone ever displayed a more muscular, more shredded, higher-quality physique than a 247-pound Ronnie Coleman at the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic?"
Shawn Perine Ironage Dec 11, 2004
"As much as I love Haney and my IA champs, I think Ronnie circa '98 or at the 2001 Arnold is pretty much untouchable. Except by Dorian Yates 6 weeks out from the '93 O as photographed by our own KMH. Both men, on those specific occasions carried so much dry muscle mass in good proportion and with good lines that it's almost unfair to compare them to others. "
Sean Toh – http://creditplushealth.org/sport%20celebrities/Ronnie%20Coleman.htm
“At the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, Ronnie won the show and his performance at the time was hailed by many to be his best ever showing. He was 245 pounds at the contest, in extremely tight form, and dense as stone.”
so if you want to ignore the overwhelming visual evidence in favor of Ronnie, then we can go tit for tat over quotes ;)
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Remember folks, visual evidence doesn't matter because pics/video lie. We must rely on testimony from people who saw them live
let's hear what they have to say, shall we?
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49
"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."
John Plummer – Flexonline 2003 Mr. Olympia Contest Review
"The long-awaited triple showdown between Coleman, Jay Cutler and Günter Schlierkamp failed to materialize as the defending champion destroyed all-comers with possibly the most awesome physique ever seen on a bodybuilding stage."
http://www.flexonline.com.au/216.html
Hany Rambod - MD, February 2004
"[Ronnie] was so far ahead of everyone else, I heard a rumor that his DNA actually tested positive for being an alien."
Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005
"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."
Peter McGough - Flex, April 2002
"[Ronnie Coleman] bounced back to win the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic with a physique that may have been the best ever seen"
Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)
"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."
Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035
"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"
Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer
"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"
http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis
Greg Meritt – http://www.metroflexgymtraining.com/testimonials.html
"From the greatest bodybuilder of all-time, Ronnie Coleman, to gregarious owner Brian Dobson to the kid who joined yesterday, everyone is trying to push themselves further than ever before, and it’s the energy of this shared commitment that makes Metroflex great."
Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004
"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0
Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official
"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0
Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004
"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."
Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004
"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."
Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999
"I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."
Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website
"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."
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as Emeril Lagasse would say, "BAM!" Too bad ND will come up with some roundabout reply that avoids providing any objective evidence. This is how you can tell when he knows he's fighting a losing battle
"umm, so-and-so said this. Therefore, I'm right" ::)
Where exactly is your objective evidence? compressed Youtube videos and 2D pictures? and your own personal brand of ignorance? you don't know what even constitutes great conditioning , you posted a picture of Dorian once from 1995 and claimed he was soft & doughy LMFAO when this ( along with 1993 ) are considered his prime showings overall in terms of mass and conditioning?
You don't have the first clue on what you're talking about , nothing's changed you thought balance & proportion were one thing lol more evidence of how clueless you are. You absolutely positively can NOT say who is better conditioned when you don't have a clue what it is and you weren't live and in person to see these people at their best and worst
What do you know internet-fanboy? I don't have the audacity to say who is better conditioned because I never seen Dorian 1993 Mr Olympia , Dorian 1995 Mr Olympia , Ronnie 1998 Mr Olympia , Ronnie 2001 ASC , and neither did you and then say the people who did are dead wrong and you are right , this alone proves that you're ignorant and happy being so , you're stupid Neo , willfully stupid and that's why I don't entertain your point of view , just correct it.
Still stinging from the Yates 91 Olympia comments? looking for some half-ass vicarious retribution? ;)
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the same argument can be made for Ronnie. Several experts who have seen him in person say he looks 20-30 lbs heavier than his actual bodyweight due to his bone structure and muscle bellies.
so if you want to ignore the overwhelming visual evidence in favor of Ronnie, then we can go tit for tat over quotes ;)
What does this have to do with Ronnie being in better condition than Dorian? nothing at all
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Where exactly is your objective evidence? compressed Youtube videos and 2D pictures? and your own personal brand of ignorance? you don't know what even constitutes great conditioning , you posted a picture of Dorian once from 1995 and claimed he was soft & doughy LMFAO when this ( along with 1993 ) are considered his prime showings overall in terms of mass and conditioning?
you really ought to learn how to tell when someone is using sarcasm, doll. You called Ronnie pregnant on numerous occasions. I was simply returning the favor by mirroring your outlandish claims with equally outlandish comments about Dorian
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Remember folks, visual evidence doesn't matter because pics/video lie. We must rely on testimony from people who saw them live
let's hear what they have to say, shall we?
More fluff , this has NOTHING to do with who is better conditioned , you proved that Ronnie being the greatest ever is a very popular opinion , congrats fanboy where are the quotes that say Dorian Yates was never harder or drier than Ronnie Coleman? ???
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What does this have to do with Ronnie being in better condition than Dorian? nothing at all
re-read my post. If you want to ignore visual evidence in favor of eye witness testimony when it favors Dorian, then the same courtesy must be applied to Ronnie
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you really ought to learn how to tell when someone is using sarcasm, doll. You called Ronnie pregnant on numerous occasions. I was simply returning the favor by mirroring your outlandish claims with equally outlandish comments about Dorian
what does Ronnie looking pregnant have to do with Dorian's superior conditioning? ??? I posted pics of Ronnie looking pregnant , you posted a pic of Dorian at his best saying he was soft , lame
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re-read my post. If you want to ignore visual evidence in favor of eye witness testimony when it favors Dorian, then the same courtesy must be applied to Ronnie
I'm sticking to the topic , try it.
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what does Ronnie looking pregnant have to do with Dorian's superior conditioning? I posted pics of Ronnie looking pregnant, you posted a pic of Dorian at his best saying he was soft
poor ND, lol. You called Ronnie "pregnant" (obviously not true). So I called Dorian "soft and doughy" (equally not true)
I don't know how to make this any simpler for you to understand
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I'm sticking to the topic , try it.
same here. Perhaps you may want to read the post I was responding to (hint: it wasn't you ;))
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poor ND, lol. You called Ronnie "pregnant" (obviously not true). So I called Dorian "soft and doughy" (equally not true)
I don't know how to make this any simpler for you to understand
Neo yeah obviously ::)
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Neo yeah obviously ::)
let me get this straight... do you actually believe a man can give birth to a baby? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you
I was aware you're mentally challenged but I didn't realize it was this bad
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same here. Perhaps you may want to read the post I was responding to (hint: it wasn't you ;))
You can't respond to me , you'd have to have to know what you're talking about and still after all this time you still don't ;)
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let me get this straight... do you actually believe a man can give birth to a baby? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you
I was aware you're mentally challenged but I didn't realize it was this bad
semantics , never seen those before ( pssssttttt that was internet sarcasm ;) )
anyway
how about those quotes that say Dorian Yates was never harder or drier than Ronnie Coleman? working on those? ???
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While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
;)
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semantics , never seen those before ( pssssttttt that was internet sarcasm )
busted! ;D
how about those quotes that say Dorian Yates was never harder or drier than Ronnie Coleman? working on those?
what is your point? Never harder or drier means just that. It doesn't mean that Ronnie wasn't equally as hard or dry
I will dumb things down to a level you can understand: the number 2 is not greater or bigger than 2. They are the same value
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While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
if you want to quote people's opinions, then I refer you to the quotes above saying Ronnie is better than Dorian ;)
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let's use NDs logic that the judges are perfect.
Ronnie > Dorian due to more olympia wins. fact, the judges said so.
Nd will now reply that ronnie never beat dorian onstage. to which I reply "ronnie hadn't peaked yet."
to prove this we look at ronnies placing improvement from 97 to 98. ronnie got better, the judges said so. fact.
now we will back this theory up with hard proof. the pictures are irrefutable because both competitors are at their widely believed best condition. Nd will say the picture isn't scaled correctly by doing so admitting that ronnie is better. but even without the picture we have used nd's logic to finally prove that ronnie > dorian.
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busted! ;D
what is your point? Never harder or drier means just that. It doesn't mean that Ronnie wasn't equally as hard or dry
I will dumb things down to a level you can understand: the number 2 is not greater or bigger than 2. They are the same value
busted! ;D
weak as usual
lol I would settle for a quote that claimed that but as usual when push comes to shove YOU have nothing
and many times I've said Ronnie may have equaled that in 98/01 for the sake of argument , but Dorian could maintain that at much higher bodyweights , so NEVER means never from an expert witness this my dimwitted friend is better than anything you can provide
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if you want to quote people's opinions, then I refer you to the quotes above saying Ronnie is better than Dorian ;)
Big difference between popular opinion on a subjective subject and conditioning which really isn't subjective , learn the difference
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Appealing to authority and opinion holds little water here except your opinion? ??? a bit hypocritical?
Pictures are good but there are to many variables to ' deducing the truth ' pictures pale in comparison to actually being live and in person at a show. Pictures vary in quality , compression , resolution , and the source where they originally came from. couple that with the fact that not everyone looks the same in pictures as they do in person an attribute that has been said of Dorian and his conditioning repeatedly , it's the reason shows are judged live and not on photos
And as far as experts saying Phil Heath was the best , I'm using these quotes to only show Dorian had the advantage in conditioning not some hypothetical contest of Olympia champions. And it's not just one person who said Dorian had the advantage in conditioning , He's said so in direct reference to a hypothetical meeting of the two. And I could post countless quotes in reference to Dorian's legendary conditioning
Why his opinion is correct and unbiased , one because he has eons of experience in the sport of bodybuilding and has been both of the guys in question live and in the flesh , through out their entire careers on-stage and off-stage at their best and their worse , this beats looking at pictures and you mentioned court , in a court of law he would be called as an expert witness if anyone.
Two he's unbiased because he said although he felt Ronnie was the best physique he's seen , Dorian still had better conditioning than him and that's even at Ronnie's best. ( although he had cause to rethink that position about Ronnie being the best physique )
Again this is an experts opinion on who is better conditioned not mine , I just happen to agree with it , and the obvious who is better conditioned is who is holding the least amount of water and who is the hardest , qualities which can only truly ascertained live and in the flesh , which is why I take this on opinion of an unbiased expert rather than from crappy Youtube videos or 2D photos, the layperson can see details , and dryness and striations , etc on photos and video but that doesn't tell the whole story , again you have to factor in not everyone looks the same in photos as they do in person , some look better and in Yates' case , some look worse , Bob Chick , Kevin Horton , Peter McGough and Dorian himself , as well as others have touched on this very subject
There are enough quotes on the subject of Dorian's legendary conditioning to safely say he has an advantage in this department over Ronnie and most others , a lot of people base conditioning on striations which is only part of the equation and mostly genetic ( although one needs to be greatly conditioned in order to see them , but amount and placement are largely genetic ) this is where Dorian's advantage lied over his competition
Density - Muscle hardness, which is also related to muscu-lar definition. A bodybuilder can be well-defined and still have excess fat within each major muscle complex. But when he has muscle density, even this intramuscular fat has been eliminated. A combination of muscle mass and muscle density is highly prized among all competitive bodybuilders.
Now couple this with Dorian's dryness ( thin skin ) and his fullness ( muscular bulk ) it's this combo that is rarely accomplished and which is why many feel when he competed to be the best era in bodybuilding and he was on the fore-front of that.
I always said for the sake of argument that Ronnie might have matched this type of conditioning at his very best in 1998 and in 2001 at his lightest ( 249lbs and 247lbs respectively ) but Dorian could do it at much higher bodyweights , like in 1993 at 257lbs and in those black & white photos at 270lbs , Ronnie got progressively softer and carried more water the higher his bodyweight went , evidenced from 98-99 and from 99-00
This picture illustrates exactly why Dorian stands alone in size , density and dryness.
i wasnt stating my opinion here i was saying that dorian and ronnie at there respective bests did not compete hence, no one has actually compared them thus memory is what these so called unbiased experts are going off, which is worse then physical evidence one can compare, since this is impossible to do accurately in your head. What is so hard to understand about that, its a fact, courts would never use your proposed evidence when much more direct evidence exists. While still not perfect it is much better.
how do some people look different in photos and others not? this argument is ridiculous, you have no way of asserting that except for opinion. what you are suggesting is that dorian has some un-named quality ronnie didnt have, or other people may not have that made appear different on film? ridiculous. He may have just been super impressive in person hence the comments. Without saying what this quality is, its attributes and how to detect it you have once again performed logical harikari, its a ridiculous argument i wont waste further time on.
my argument is simply use the best evidence to decide this purely hypothetical argument, pictures and video. Why are they better? because they are objective and i can arrive at the same conclusions as anyone else using them if they are good enough and we have objective criteria. It doesnt take a genius to see dorians back was more conditioned, they pictures show this. Ronnies arms likewise are clearly more defined in numerous poses, side chest, back double bi, front bi, most muscular, with the side tri going to dorian.
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weak as usual
admit it: you kept using a strawman tactic to claim I was being serious (which I wasn't) until I busted you by pointing out the absurdness of both our comments and that I parodying you. You were adamant that Ronnie was pregnant until I asked if you really believed that. Your only response after that was to joke about it and shift topic to something irrelevant
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Big difference between popular opinion on a subjective subject and conditioning which really isn't subjective , learn the difference
hydrostatic weighing = objective
guessing a person's body fat and water = subjective
learn the difference
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let's use NDs logic that the judges are perfect.
Ronnie > Dorian due to more olympia wins. fact, the judges said so.
Nd will now reply that ronnie never beat dorian onstage. to which I reply "ronnie hadn't peaked yet."
to prove this we look at ronnies placing improvement from 97 to 98. ronnie got better, the judges said so. fact.
now we will back this theory up with hard proof. the pictures are irrefutable because both competitors are at their widely believed best condition. Nd will say the picture isn't scaled correctly by doing so admitting that ronnie is better. but even without the picture we have used nd's logic to finally prove that ronnie > dorian.
let's use NDs logic that the judges are perfect.
Ronnie > Dorian due to more olympia wins. fact, the judges said so.
Nd will now reply that ronnie never beat dorian onstage. to which I reply "ronnie hadn't peaked yet."
to prove this we look at ronnies placing improvement from 97 to 98. ronnie got better, the judges said so. fact.
I never said the judges were perfect , fallacy #1
Ronnie got better compared to who? Dorian? or the competition he faced in 98? where did he improve the most? conditioning? yup , sorry sport that's Dorian's forte , he would own Ronnie there too , did Ronnie get more size from 97-98? NO in fact he was lighter , he was 255 in 97 and 249 in 98 , albeit harder and drier
Dorian at his absolute worse 97 beat Ronnie close to his best soundly in 97 1st compared to 6th , Dorian at his best would easily beat Ronnie 98
Dorian absolutely DOMINATED Flex in 1993 at his near-career best showing , Ronnie just barely beat a sub-par Flex in one of the closest Mr Olympia contests in history to this day , Dorian would beat him again , Ronnie had a lot of shots a Dorian and failed all the time , granted he wasn't at his best but he failed to make any inroads with Dorion , Statistically Dorian would beat him , the odds favor Yates
now we will back this theory up with hard proof. the pictures are irrefutable because both competitors are at their widely believed best condition. Nd will say the picture isn't scaled correctly by doing so admitting that ronnie is better. but even without the picture we have used nd's logic to finally prove that ronnie > dorian.
LMFAO irrefutable , you can't even get their best conditions down , 2003 is in NO WAY shape of form Ronnie's best , 1998/2001 were
You're damn right those pics aren't scaled right and that's not an admission of Ronnie being better , it's an admission of the obvious , it's not an accurate representation of the reality of the situation and it was created by a Ronnie guy
Ronnie at his best may come close to Dorian in terms of conditioning but Ronnie 2003 gets obliterated by Dorian 1993 in terms of density & dryness it's not close or any contest , now lets couple that with the fact Ronnie's balance & proportion is in the red in 2003 and it's obvious that Ronnie 2003 isn't his best by a long shot , a fact he's said multiple times and why he says 1998 is his best
1998 Ronnie vs Dorian 1993
Dorian carries more muscular bulk , is harder and drier and has better balance & proportion and has less weaknesses , Ronnie 98 could barely beat a career best Flex and Dorian 93 dominated him NO CONTEST Dorian wins
Ronnie 2003 vs Dorian 1995 precontest at 283lbs
Ronnie had no advantage in muscular bulk , has no advantage in conditioning or balance , Dorian wins again , you pick a year and I can show you how and why Dorian wins
Dorian just has to many strengths , like Heath now at his best he's just too complete and really isn't missing anything
the black & white photo is Dorian precontest 1995 Kevin Horton said this was the best he's ever seen Dorian he's 283lbs , even better than the famous B&W pics from 1993
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Dorian at his absolute worse 97 beat Ronnie close to his best soundly in 97 1st compared to 6th , Dorian at his best would easily beat Ronnie 98
sorry brah, but Joe Weider disagrees with you
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
note that he also says "many experts" share the same belief
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admit it: you kept using a strawman tactic to claim I was being serious (which I wasn't) until I busted you by pointing out the absurdness of both our comments and that I parodying you. You were adamant that Ronnie was pregnant until I asked if you really believed that. Your only response after that was to joke about it and shift topic to something irrelevant
This is why you'll never be taken seriously , just mocked and ridiculed.
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This is why you'll never be taken seriously , just mocked and ridiculed.
translation: I have no intelligent reply ;)
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sorry brah, but Joe Weider disagrees with you
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
note that he also says "many experts" share the same belief
Ronnie Coleman disagrees with you sport , once again you fail. ;)
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I never said the judges were perfect , fallacy #1
Ronnie got better compared to who? Dorian? or the competition he faced in 98? where did he improve the most? conditioning? yup , sorry sport that's Dorian's forte , he would own Ronnie there too , did Ronnie get more size from 97-98? NO in fact he was lighter , he was 255 in 97 and 249 in 98 , albeit harder and drier
Dorian at his absolute worse 97 beat Ronnie close to his best soundly in 97 1st compared to 6th , Dorian at his best would easily beat Ronnie 98
Dorian absolutely DOMINATED Flex in 1993 at his near-career best showing , Ronnie just barely beat a sub-par Flex in one of the closest Mr Olympia contests in history to this day , Dorian would beat him again , Ronnie had a lot of shots a Dorian and failed all the time , granted he wasn't at his best but he failed to make any inroads with Dorion , Statistically Dorian would beat him , the odds favor Yates
LMFAO irrefutable , you can't even get their best conditions down , 2003 is in NO WAY shape of form Ronnie's best , 1998/2001 were
You're damn right those pics aren't scaled right and that's not an admission of Ronnie being better , it's an admission of the obvious , it's not an accurate representation of the reality of the situation and it was created by a Ronnie guy
Ronnie at his best may come close to Dorian in terms of conditioning but Ronnie 2003 gets obliterated by Dorian 1993 in terms of density & dryness it's not close or any contest , now lets couple that with the fact Ronnie's balance & proportion is in the red in 2003 and it's obvious that Ronnie 2003 isn't his best by a long shot , a fact he's said multiple times and why he says 1998 is his best
1998 Ronnie vs Dorian 1993
Dorian carries more muscular bulk , is harder and drier and has better balance & proportion and has less weaknesses , Ronnie 98 could barely beat a career best Flex and Dorian 93 dominated him NO CONTEST Dorian wins
Ronnie 2003 vs Dorian 1995 precontest at 283lbs
Ronnie had no advantage in muscular bulk , has no advantage in conditioning or balance , Dorian wins again , you pick a year and I can show you how and why Dorian wins
Dorian just has to many strengths , like Heath now at his best he's just too complete and really isn't missing anything
the black & white photo is Dorian precontest 1995 Kevin Horton said this was the best he's ever seen Dorian he's 283lbs , even better than the famous B&W pics from 1993
owned. cue the semantics game
Oh boy lol , it's an opinion that 12 individuals are come to the exact same conclusion on. their opinion is knowledge , informed and unbiased , everything yours is NOT which is exactly why you come to some of your wacky conclusion , ignorance. You don't even know what it takes to judge at the Olympia level and how judges are chosen and you don't care , you've made up your mind and nothing is gonna change it
Their opinions are FACTS and the fact is their opinion made Heath Mr Olympia and Jay second and Wolf not even close , the general bodybuilding population do NOT judge contest so their opinion on the subject means fuck-all in the scheme of things and the general bodybuilding population are all like you , clueless on how the game is even played , yet you think your opinion matters , your opinion is just as you projected on the judges , bias , ignorant and flawed.
go learn how contests are judged and then you'll have a clue , if not keep bitching on the internets it's working out great for thus far.
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Ronnie Coleman disagrees with you sport , once again you fail. ;)
ronnie coleman does not judge shows and therefor knows fuckall about how contests are judged
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Ronnie Coleman disagrees with you sport , once again you fail
I don't care what Ronnie says on the topic of who's better. He could say King Kamali is a better bodybuilder and I still wouldn't listen to him. Mind you, he also believes he won the 06 Mr. Olympia which he lost. Do you believe Ronnie to be a credible authority on judging contests?
if you answer "yes," then you are a dumbass. If you answer "no," then you are a dumbass for being a hypocrite who holds others accountable but not himself over the same quote
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translation: I have no intelligent reply ;)
You wouldn't be able to recognize one if your life depended on it , you'd have to be knowledgeable which you're not , you've proven time and time again that you can't even grasp the basics of the sport and of arguing
You filled pumpster shoes nicely as the resident ignorant troll , congrats.
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the black & white photo is Dorian precontest 1995 Kevin Horton said this was the best he's ever seen Dorian he's 283lbs , even better than the famous B&W pics from 1993
and many on this board believe his waist has also been digitally chopped, creating a quad sweep/flair to waist ratio that he never had in real life..
recall, this pic caused a storm of controversy when it first came to light.
and no, I didn't start any of it..
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I don't care what Ronnie says on the topic of who's better. He could say King Kamali is a better bodybuilder and I still wouldn't listen to him
mind you, he also believes he won the 06 Mr. Olympia which he lost. Do you believe Ronnie to be a credible authority on judging contests?
The difference dummy is I was taking what Ronnie said for what it's worth , an opinion on a subjective subject , you on the other hand are trying to offer up Joe as proof and he's not a judge BTW ;)
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The difference dummy is I was taking what Ronnie said for what it's worth , an opinion on a subjective subject , you on the other hand are trying to offer up Joe as proof and he's not a judge BTW
do you believe Ronnie to be a credible authority on judging contests?
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I never said the judges were perfect , fallacy #1
Oh boy lol , it's an opinion that 12 individuals are come to the exact same conclusion on. their opinion is knowledge , informed and unbiased , everything yours is NOT which is exactly why you come to some of your wacky conclusion , ignorance. You don't even know what it takes to judge at the Olympia level and how judges are chosen and you don't care , you've made up your mind and nothing is gonna change it
Their opinions are FACTS and the fact is their opinion made Heath Mr Olympia and Jay second and Wolf not even close , the general bodybuilding population do NOT judge contest so their opinion on the subject means fuck-all in the scheme of things and the general bodybuilding population are all like you , clueless on how the game is even played , yet you think your opinion matters , your opinion is just as you projected on the judges , bias , ignorant and flawed.
go learn how contests are judged and then you'll have a clue , if not keep bitching on the internets it's working out great for thus far.
backpedal please
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and his waist has also been digitally chopped, creating a quad sweep/flair to waist ratio that he never had in real life..
recall, this pic caused a storm of controversy when it first came to light.
and no, I didn't start any of it..
LMFAO Hulkster you cried PHOTOSHOPPED the moment it was posted and Kevin Horton addressed you directly and said it was untouched , he said maybe if you posted it ,we'd need to worry about it's authenticity because you were after all BUSTED using worked photos ;D
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The difference dummy is I was taking what Ronnie said for what it's worth , an opinion on a subjective subject , you on the other hand are trying to offer up Joe as proof and he's not a judge BTW
are you honestly comparing Joe Weider and Ronnie Coleman when it comes to bodybuilding knowledge and expertise? lmao
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ronnie coleman does not judge shows and therefor knows fuckall about how contests are judged
Neither do you , Neo or anyone else
Dorian is a judge and he said outright he's better conditioned than Ronnie and has better balance , but I'm sure you agree because he is a judge.
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Neither do you , Neo or anyone else
Dorian is a judge and he said outright he's better conditioned than Ronnie and has better balance , but I'm sure you agree because he is a judge.
Dorian also admitted that Ronnie at his prime would probably beat him
Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview
"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."
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are you honestly comparing Joe Weider and Ronnie Coleman when it comes to bodybuilding knowledge? lmao
Neither are judges and their opinion on the subjective topic is just that an opinion. see the difference? ;)
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Neither do you , Neo or anyone else
Dorian is a judge and he said outright he's better conditioned than Ronnie and has better balance , but I'm sure you agree because he is a judge.
i've went on record multiple times saying i don't use the judges decisions in my arguments. you've already forgotten.
i just used your logic to prove you wrong.
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and many on this board believe his waist has also been digitally chopped, creating a quad sweep/flair to waist ratio that he never had in real life..
recall, this pic caused a storm of controversy when it first came to light.
and no, I didn't start any of it..
doesn't matter, ronnie still rapes him in the photoshop round
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Neither are judges and their opinion on the subjective topic is just that an opinion. see the difference?
Joe Weider founded the IFBB. He established the judging criteria that is used. He probably knows it better than anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if he used to train judges when he was younger and the IFBB was starting up
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Dorian also admitted the judges would pick Ronnie over him
Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview
"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."
Oppppssss forgot a part , willful deception.
I don't know ;) It's a very hard question for me to answer
tampering with quotes wont work kid , you'll need more
if you concede Dorian knows what he's talking about than you concede he's right when he says , he has better balance AND proportion ( two separate this BTW ) and better density & dryness , and what else is there? muscular bulk? and posing , Dorian beats him there too
so Dorian wins by arm bar
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Joe Weider founded the IFBB. He established the judging criteria that is used. He probably knows it better than anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if he used to train judges when he was younger and the IFBB was starting up
LMFAO he established the judging criteria , LMMFAO kid go learn about bodybuilding please you're embarrassing yourself
Kid please learn the basics it's beyond ridiculous LMFAO I do look forward to these moments when you commit to massively ignorant statements lol this is why I continue to engage you to make you look stupid. ;D
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i've went on record multiple times saying i don't use the judges decisions in my arguments. you've already forgotten.
i just used your logic to prove you wrong.
You also don't use common sense , logic , facts , or the basics just nonsense , at least you can admit the obvious.
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I never said the judges were perfect , fallacy #1
Oh boy lol , it's an opinion that 12 individuals are come to the exact same conclusion on. their opinion is knowledge , informed and unbiased , everything yours is NOT which is exactly why you come to some of your wacky conclusion , ignorance. You don't even know what it takes to judge at the Olympia level and how judges are chosen and you don't care , you've made up your mind and nothing is gonna change it
Their opinions are FACTS and the fact is their opinion made Heath Mr Olympia and Jay second and Wolf not even close , the general bodybuilding population do NOT judge contest so their opinion on the subject means fuck-all in the scheme of things and the general bodybuilding population are all like you , clueless on how the game is even played , yet you think your opinion matters , your opinion is just as you projected on the judges , bias , ignorant and flawed.
go learn how contests are judged and then you'll have a clue , if not keep bitching on the internets it's working out great for thus far.
waiting on an explanation that doesn't involve word play and backpedaling
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So this is the new truce thread?
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You also don't use common sense , logic , facts , or the basics just nonsense , at least you can admit the obvious.
i beat you with my logic. you refused it. so then i used your logic.
and this post is all you have to say about it. saying "im right your wrong" doesn't make it true
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So this is the new truce thread?
another Nd gang rape thread. pick a hole and stick it
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waiting on an explanation that doesn't involve word play and backpedaling
let me guess, you never actually used the word "perfect" so it's therefore like all the pitures of ronnie raping dorian
it doesn't count ::)
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waiting on an explanation that doesn't involve word play and backpedaling
I don't see the word perfect do you? ??? no backpedaling ,show me where I said they were perfect , I'll be waiting.
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i beat you with my logic. you refused it. so then i used your logic.
and this post is all you have to say about it. saying "im right your wrong" doesn't make it true
You have no logic besides retard logic , the moment you declare ' i don't use the judges decisions in my arguments ' is the moment taking your opinion seriously ends , you don't use the judging criteria ( I don't blame you because you'd have to know it first ) you don't use common sense or logic , you troll that's what you do , you state your opinion as fact and run for cover when pushed on your lame statements , you fear a debate because you know like Neo and Hulkster before you , you will get crushed under the weight of your own stupidity.
saying "im right your wrong" doesn't make it true
lmfao oh the irony of this statement , that only applies to me huh? ::) kid go back to the drawing board and learn how to formulate an argument.
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and many on this board believe his waist has also been digitally chopped, creating a quad sweep/flair to waist ratio that he never had in real life..
recall, this pic caused a storm of controversy when it first came to light.
and no, I didn't start any of it..
What's the point of posting 93 compared to 95? ??? he's much heavier in the top pic
and here is YOU crying about how that pic was ' morphed ' and Kevin Horton owning you into oblivion ;)
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damn, ND got owned hard in this thread!
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damn, ND got owned hard in this thread!
explain to me again how Joe Weider established the judging criteria ;D because there were NO contests before the IFBB :D
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explain to me again how Joe Weider established the judging criteria because there were NO contests before the IFBB
I'm still waiting for you to explain how guessing a person's body fat and water is objective
Big difference between popular opinion on a subjective subject and conditioning which really isn't subjective , learn the difference
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I'm still waiting for you to explain how guessing a person's body fat and water is objective
The person doing the critique is being objective and has years of experience in physique analysis , so his opinion is objective. When McGough says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian he's being objective
Answer the question now kid , explain to me how he established the judging criteria , I know you can't I'm just exposing your stupidity , like there were NO contests before the IFBB , because there weren't physique contests since the 19th Century ::)
Neo you're stupid , now normally I would say you're ignorant and that's not a bad thing because we're all ignorant at some point , however you commit to responses without knowing the facts or bothering to check it out , you do this constantly and always end up looking like an idiot for trying to be knowledgeable when you're not
You're not here to debate only looking for some e-revenge because I constantly expose just how dumb you are , Hulkster is like that too , keep trolling kid , I'll keep correcting.
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The person doing the critique is being objective and has years of experience in physique analysis , so his opinion is objective. When McGough says Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian he's being objective
the people who guess your weight at carnival booths have years of experience but their "critique" is still subjective. If it were objective, then it would match the weight on the scale every time. The fact is that you got caught trying to pass off a person's opinion as fact because it helps your argument. However, no human - not even Peter McGough - can guess a person's body fat and water as accurately as calipers done by a professional, let alone hydrostatic weighing
Answer the question now kid , explain to me how he established the judging criteria , I know you can't I'm just exposing your stupidity , like there were NO contests before the IFBB , because there weren't physique contests since the 19th Century
show me where I said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB. Go ahead
I explicitly said Joe Weider is co-founder of the IFBB. He was there when they decided on the judging criteria. Even if he copied it from elsewhere, it's irrelevant since I never made the claim he invented bodybuilding contests
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the people who guess your weight at carnival booths have years of experience but their "critique" is still subjective. If it were objective, then it would match the weight on the scale every time. The fact is that you got caught trying to pass off a person's opinion as fact because it helps your argument. However, no human - not even Peter McGough - can guess a person's body fat and water as accurately as calipers done by a professional, let alone hydrostatic weighing
show me where I said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB. Go ahead
I explicitly said Joe Weider is co-founder of the IFBB. He was there when they decided on the judging criteria. Even if he copied it from elsewhere, it's irrelevant since I never made the claim he invented bodybuilding contests
the people who guess your weight at carnival booths have years of experience but their "critique" is still subjective. If it were objective, then it would match the weight on the scale every time. The fact is that you got caught trying to pass off a person's opinion as fact because it helps your argument. However, no human - not even Peter McGough - can guess a person's body fat and water as accurately as calipers done by a professional, let alone hydrostatic weighing
What a dumb ass analogy , I was expecting as much , you asked how it's objective and I explained how his conclusion is McGough is NOT trying to guess a number or a percentage of bodyfat big difference
I've showed you before side-by-side comparisons of Ronnie to show you exactly which year ( 1998 ) he was leaner and drier compared to himself in 2003 , I can tell you objectively that Ronnie is carrying less bodyfat and he's drier in this comparison and this is just going off pictures because that's all I have to offer
show me where I said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB. Go ahead
I explicitly said Joe Weider is co-founder of the IFBB. He was there when they decided on the judging criteria. Even if he copied it from elsewhere, it's irrelevant since I never made the claim he invented bodybuilding contests
Another lame attempt at avoiding the question , how did he establish the judging criteria , stop trying to divert the question with ' I never said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB '
And NO you never said ' he was there when they decided on the judging ' now you're looking for a way out , you specifically said ' he established the judging criteria ' again , answer how HE established the judging criteria. You're not getting off easy
I said ' like there were no contests before the IFBB ' notice I said it , I never said you claimed it. but hey you're looking for a way out of a really dumb statement , not your first time nor your last.
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Look I can ascertain Ronnie is harder and drier on the left without using a calipers or hydro-statically weighing them ;)
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What a dumb ass analogy , I was expecting as much , you asked how it's objective and I explained how his conclusion is McGough is NOT trying to guess a number or a percentage of bodyfat big difference
I've showed you before side-by-side comparisons of Ronnie to show you exactly which year ( 1998 ) he was leaner and drier compared to himself in 2003 , I can tell you objectively that Ronnie is carrying less bodyfat and he's drier in this comparison and this is just going off pictures because that's all I have to offer
what a childish response. I expected as much from you. No, you cannot tell objectively that Ronnie is carrying less body fat and water. Comparing 03 Ronnie to 01 ASC Ronnie won't help your argument b/c we're not comparing apples and oranges. You claimed that Dorian was harder and drier than 01 ASC Ronnie b/c Peter McGough said so, and even went on to say that his opinion is "objective." Both men at their prime were so close in conditioning that it is impossible to discern who carried less body fat and water with the naked eye. You need an objective method of measure like hydrostatic weighing that will give you accurate, precise results every time
Another lame attempt at avoiding the question , how did he establish the judging criteria , stop trying to divert the question with ' I never said there were no bodybuilding contests before the IFBB '
And NO you never said ' he was there when they decided on the judging ' now you're looking for a way out , you specifically said ' he established the judging criteria ' again , answer how HE established the judging criteria. You're not getting off easy
I said ' like there were no contests before the IFBB ' notice I said it , I never said you claimed it. but hey you're looking for a way out of a really dumb statement , not your first time nor your last.
lol, I just explained it to you. Re-read my post. I didn't use any big words or confusing grammar. I said he was involved in the decision-making when the Weider brothers decided on what criteria to adopt when they drafted the IFBB judging criteria
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what a childish response. I expected as much from you. No, you cannot tell objectively that Ronnie is carrying less body fat and water. Comparing 03 Ronnie to 01 ASC Ronnie won't help your argument b/c we're not comparing apples and oranges. You claimed that Dorian was harder and drier than 01 ASC Ronnie b/c Peter McGough said so, and even went on to say that his opinion is "objective." Both men at their prime were so close in conditioning that it is impossible to discern who carried less body fat and water with the naked eye. You need an objective method of measure like hydrostatic weighing that will give you accurate, precise results every time
lol, I just explained it to you. Re-read my post. I didn't use any big words or confusing grammar. I said he was involved in the decision-making when the Weider brothers decided on what criteria to adopt when they drafted the IFBB judging criteria
what a childish response. I expected as much from you. No, you cannot tell objectively that Ronnie is carrying less body fat and water. Comparing 03 Ronnie to 01 ASC Ronnie won't help your argument b/c we're not comparing apples and oranges. You claimed that Dorian was harder and drier than 01 ASC Ronnie b/c Peter McGough said so, and even went on to say that his opinion is "objective." Both men at their prime were so close in conditioning that it is impossible to discern who carried less body fat and water with the naked eye. You need an objective method of measure like hydrostatic weighing that will give you accurate, precise results every time
Wow wanna copy my response some more? ::) can you get any more lame?
I just proved period end of sentence you can objectively ascertain that someone is carrying less bodyfat and water. What else can you say? admit you're wrong? lol your foolish pride wont allow that.
Both men at their primes were so close in conditioning? according to whom? you? where is your proof? I've entertain this point for the sake of argument but I honestly don't have to , Seeing McGough and Dorian as well as Peter Horton have said Dorian has the edge in conditioning directly over Ronnie .
lol, I just explained it to you. Re-read my post. I didn't use any big words or confusing grammar. I said he was involved in the decision-making when the Weider brothers decided on what criteria to adopt when they drafted the IFBB judging criteria
No you didn't , stop avoiding the question he established the judging criteria this is your original statement , how did he establish the judging criteria? now you're forced to amend it to ' he was involved '
answer the question he established the judging criteria , how did he establish the judging criteria?
I know you wont answer because you can't because as usual you don't know what you're talking about.
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Wow wanna copy my response some more? can you get any more lame?
I just proved period end of sentence you can objectively ascertain that someone is carrying less bodyfat and water. What else can you say? admit you're wrong? lol your foolish pride wont allow that.
Both men at their primes were so close in conditioning? according to whom? you? where is your proof? I've entertain this point for the sake of argument but I honestly don't have to , Seeing McGough and Dorian as well as Peter Horton have said Dorian has the edge in conditioning directly over Ronnie .
No you didn't , stop avoiding the question he established the judging criteria this is your original statement , how did he establish the judging criteria? now you're forced to amend it to ' he was involved '
answer the question he established the judging criteria , how did he establish the judging criteria?
I know you wont answer because you can't because as usual you don't know what you're talking about.
meltdown, lol
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meltdown, lol
Thanks for playing Neo ;)
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it's fun watching ND get owned again and again ;D
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Funny%20GIFs/GailSnail.gif)
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let me guess, you never actually used the word "perfect" so it's therefore like all the pitures of ronnie raping dorian
it doesn't count ::)
Hahaha predicted perfectly. typical semantics word gaming to try and talk his way out.
we all know what Nd thinks of the judges opinion now it's being used against him and he doesn't know what to do
I don't see the word perfect do you? ??? no backpedaling ,show me where I said they were perfect , I'll be waiting.
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Oh boy lol , it's an opinion that 12 individuals are come to the exact same conclusion on. their opinion is knowledge , informed and unbiased , everything yours is NOT which is exactly why you come to some of your wacky conclusion , ignorance. You don't even know what it takes to judge at the Olympia level and how judges are chosen and you don't care , you've made up your mind and nothing is gonna change it
Their opinions are FACTS and the fact is their opinion made Heath Mr Olympia and Jay second and Wolf not even close , the general bodybuilding population do NOT judge contest so their opinion on the subject means fuck-all in the scheme of things and the general bodybuilding population are all like you , clueless on how the game is even played , yet you think your opinion matters , your opinion is just as you projected on the judges , bias , ignorant and flawed.
go learn how contests are judged and then you'll have a clue , if not keep bitching on the internets it's working out great for thus far.
I don't see the word perfect do you? ??? no backpedaling ,show me where I said they were perfect , I'll be waiting.
oh he never actually used the word "perfect"
he must have meant something entirely different in the first post ::)
it's just like all the visual evidence of ronnie raping dorian. "it doesn't count"
maybe if ND wasn't always losing these arguments he wouldn't have to make up excuses on why nothing counts.
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Hahaha predicted perfectly. typical semantics word gaming to try and talk his way out.
we all know what Nd thinks of the judges opinion now it's being used against him and he doesn't know what to do
et's use NDs logic that the judges are perfect.
Ronnie > Dorian due to more olympia wins. fact, the judges said so.
Nd will now reply that ronnie never beat dorian onstage. to which I reply "ronnie hadn't peaked yet."
to prove this we look at ronnies placing improvement from 97 to 98. ronnie got better, the judges said so. fact.
now we will back this theory up with hard proof. the pictures are irrefutable because both competitors are at their widely believed best condition. Nd will say the picture isn't scaled correctly by doing so admitting that ronnie is better. but even without the picture we have used nd's logic to finally prove that ronnie > dorian.
Your original statement . piss-poor logic and why? I already explained this to you.
Your point is Ronnie beats Dorian because he has more Olympia wins? this has to be the weakest argument for Ronnie being better , because as explained before NONE of them were against Dorian , so that point moot
your response is ' well Ronnie didn't peak yet ' and? Dorian's fault Ronnie wasn't good enough to even come close? nope
Ronnie competed against Dorian 8 times and lost every single time , the closest he ever came was a distant sixth place.
To further embarrass your train of ' logic ' Ronnie improved from 97-98 and? this only proves that Dorian would beat him if anything , if Dorian at his absolute worse crushed Ronnie in 1997 and Ronnie was close to his best , what's that say about Dorian at his best?
Ronnie beat Flex in 98 by just 3 points at what Ronnie and many others consider his best , and Flex at his best 1993 couldn't even touch Dorian in 93 , that leads us to believe Dorian would easily beat Ronnie at his
On the subject of your ' hard proof ' lmfao we touched on that before , 2003 is NOT his best and needless to say the pictures aren't scaled properly and made by an obvious Ronnie fan-boy , and this pic entertaining it was scaled correctly proves what? Ronnie wins a single pose? how about the other mandatories ? opppssss post one pic declare proof-positive Ronnie wins ::)
you fail on so many levels it's not funny . you're hopeless bro , keep trying though.
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oh he never actually used the word "perfect"
he must have meant something entirely different in the first post ::)
it's just like all the visual evidence of ronnie raping dorian. "it doesn't count"
maybe if ND wasn't always losing these arguments he wouldn't have to make up excuses on why nothing counts.
I never said perfect and I do stand by what I said about the judges
lol visual evidence of Ronnie raping Dorian , according to who? Ronnie fan-boys who create these elaborate ' comparisons ' where Dorian's waist is narrower than Ronnie and Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian's ? you mean the ' comparisons ' where Ronnie's is twice the size of Dorian despite weighing 20lbs lighter LMFAO
Only in your fanciful creations does Ronnie beat Dorian because the reality is Dorian handed Ronnie is ass for years on end.
This is reality kid
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x2
Everything that needs to be said had already been. Ronnie has the superior structure and fullness, but Dorian is drier, better balanced and has equal or greater size. (Even with his shitty biceps)
well said.
ronnie- fullness, shape (structure) and size
dorian- granite hard muscle, paper thin skin and bang on conditioning and size.
both great in their own ways.
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well said.
ronnie- fullness, shape (structure) and size
dorian- granite hard muscle, paper thin skin and bang on conditioning and size.
both great in their own ways.
Yes both great in their own ways
The criteria favor's Dorian though
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give it up, ND. You lost
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give it up, ND. You lost
Maybe I should give up like you and type ' meltdown ' :D
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I never said perfect and I do stand by what I said about the judges
lol visual evidence of Ronnie raping Dorian , according to who? Ronnie fan-boys who create these elaborate ' comparisons ' where Dorian's waist is narrower than Ronnie and Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian's ? you mean the ' comparisons ' where Ronnie's is twice the size of Dorian despite weighing 20lbs lighter LMFAO
Only in your fanciful creations does Ronnie beat Dorian because the reality is Dorian handed Ronnie is ass for years on end.
This is reality kid
Whats their weight there and are there other real comparison (side by side) of them?
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It's lovely to see Neosemen bullshitting on this forum again. He's a real glutton for punishment when it comes to the Yates vs. Coleman mass debate. I remember when his signature used to read "all the nice boys love sea men".
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It's lovely to see Neosemen bullshitting on this forum again. He's a real glutton for punishment when it comes to the Yates vs. Coleman mass debate. I remember when his signature used to read "all the nice boys love sea men".
can't get cock off your mind? That's not gay. Not gay at all ::)
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I am currently working on a slideshow of pics taken at various DY seminars/guest appearances I attended throughout the 90s. It will prove once and for all how superior Yates was to Coleman and every other Olympia champion before or since.
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can't get cock off your mind? That's not gay. Not gay at all ::)
No nothing Gay at all ;)
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No nothing Gay at all
says the queen.. I mean guy, who makes homosexual references and acknowledges he's gay
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says the queen.. I mean guy, who makes homosexual references and acknowledges he's gay
Another Neo fail :-\
So about Joe Weider and the judging criteria? yeah I thought so ;) run Forest run
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Another Neo fail
clicking the heels of your ruby red slippers 3x and wishing away the owning you received in this thread won't make it disappear ;)
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clicking the heels of your ruby red slippers 3x and wishing away the owning you received in this thread won't make it disappear ;)
lol the ' owning ' does that ' owning ' include you getting exposed for the dummy you are and having no response and then typing ' meltdown ' or does it include typing some nonsense about Joe Weider and the judging criteria and then refusing to elaborate on that gem? you have a long history of running when pushed on the bullshit you type , keep up the good work.
I'm still lol @ Joe Weider and the judging criteria ;D
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::)
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so,then dorian wins right.