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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on October 28, 2011, 03:25:07 AM
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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/27/pat-robertson-christians-should-not-join-occupy-wall-street
all that,oh and he can't make no money off the movement ;D
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Let's see:
Defecating and urinating on cop cars
Assaulting police
Rioting
Stealing
Raping
Vandalizing property
Racist/anti-Semitic rants
Drug Use
Lazy moochers who want someone else to take care of them
Gee.....I WONDER WHY Robertson would say that Christians shouldn't join those goofs at "Occupy Wall Street".
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Let's see:
Defecating and urinating on cop cars
Assaulting police
Rioting
Stealing he agrees with this
Raping
Vandalizing property
Racist/anti-Semitic rants he agrees with this
Drug Use
Lazy moochers who want someone else to take care of them
can't make money off them
Gee.....I WONDER WHY Robertson would say that Christians shouldn't join those goofs at "Occupy Wall Street".
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liberals can't be christians. Remember?
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Jesus broke the law
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego broke the law
Paul broke the law, Peter too, and served time in jail etc
I dont understand christians when they are against civil disobedience
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Let's see:
Defecating and urinating on cop cars Link to where this is wrong in Bible?
Assaulting police Link to where this is wrong in Bible? Don't point to anti-hatred quotes, I mean specifically assault. If you point to Jesus telling Peter to put down the sword in the garden, then that leaves the door open to anti-self defense, and anti-war.
Rioting Link to where this is wrong in the Bible? If you are talking about civil disobedience in general, then see my above post.
Stealing Who said all protesters were stealing? Just becomes some might have, doesn't mean IF you become a protester, you WILL steal. So that's not a good enough reason to not become a protester
Raping A lot of pro-rape sections in the Bible. Where does it say rape in and of itself is wrong? Don't point to fornication versus because that would mean that married people can't be raped.
Vandalizing property Link to where vandalism is wrong in the bible?
Racist/anti-Semitic rants A lot of prejudice against race as a whole in the Bible. See the old testament, like Numbers.
Drug Use I'll save you the trouble, this isn't in the Bible.
Lazy moochers who want someone to care of them You're interpreting scripture to fit your own interpretation. Jesus was not a capitalist. You are a capitalist who claims Jesus is on your side. It's not that clear. I could interpret Jesus as a socialist., Don't trust someone who says Jesus was on their side politically or economically...it wasn't that clear.
Gee.....I WONDER WHY Robertson would say that Christians shouldn't join those goofs at "Occupy Wall Street".
If you believe we get morality ONLY from the Bible, then you should be able to rattle off the top of your head the versus that correspond to everything you listed. If you can't remember or have trouble finding any of the above, then that means that you have a sense of morality that didn't come from the bible. But if morals come and only come from the Bible, then how is that possible.
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If you believe we get morality ONLY from the Bible, then you should be able to rattle off the top of your head the versus that correspond to everything you listed. If you can't remember or have trouble finding any of the above, then that means that you have a sense of morality that didn't come from the bible. But if morals come and only come from the Bible, then how is that possible.
Hate to tell you, but reality and common sense doesn't penetrate the fog of delusions that Christians try to pass off as facts.
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Where do I start dismembering this mess?
Two of the first three specifically violate Scripture, where it states that people are to RESPECT those in authority. Romans 13, for example: Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Defacing property by defecating and urinating on it (which does NOTHING to advance the message of opposing corporate greed...or more importantly, the Washington entites that feed into that greed) is NOT respecting government authority. Same goes for rioting. You can protest WITHOUT rioting.
You asked where does it say rape is wrong. ARE YOU SERIOUS? Try Deut. 22, But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter.
Rapist put to DEATH! Enough said!!
You want to talk about vandalism, start with Exodus 22:1-6,
If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.
If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
If the theft be certainly found in his hand alive, whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep; he shall restore double.
If a man shall cause a field or vineyard to be eaten, and shall put in his beast, and shall feed in another man's field; of the best of his own field, and of the best of his own vineyard, shall he make restitution.
If fire break out, and catch in thorns, so that the stacks of corn, or the standing corn, or the field, be consumed therewith; he that kindled the fire shall surely make restitution.
Simply put, if you destroy someone else's property, YOU PAY THE PRICE to reimburse the owner for what you have destroyed.
There is no prejudice against race. Israel was banned from inter-marrying because of the IDOLATROUS PRACTICES of their neigbhors (which included some of the aforementioned ill behaviors, such as rape, and things like human sacrifice).
No drug use? Try that again!! Proverbs 23:30-32
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Gal. 5:19-21,
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
And, regarding lazy moochers, 2 Thess. 3:10 states that if any man would not work, NEITHER SHOULD HE EAT. Furthermore, at no time did Jesus mandate that the government take care of other people who could otherwise care for themselves. And He certainly didn't advocate "sharing the weatlh" (See His parable about the talents; notice He didn't talk about taking the talents from the guy who had 5 and doubled it to 10, to give it to the other servants).
The Tea Party folks were protestors, as well. But notice you don't hear or see scores of them being hauled off by the cops or committing any of the obscenities that the OWS crackpots are doing.
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the only part I don't understand is why ANYONE (christian or not) would give a shit about anything that Pat Robertson says
can anyone explain ?
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If you believe we get morality ONLY from the Bible, then you should be able to rattle off the top of your head the versus that correspond to everything you listed. If you can't remember or have trouble finding any of the above, then that means that you have a sense of morality that didn't come from the bible. But if morals come and only come from the Bible, then how is that possible.
Why do you need links to the Bible? Just use your own common sense.
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Pat Robertson needs to just shut up already, but I don't see anything wrong with his comments. He's actually right on the money about those protesters:
Televangelist Pat Robertson said Thursday on The 700 Club that Christians should not be involved in the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrations in cities around the nation.
His comment was picked up by the liberal watchdog website RightWingWatch.org.
“I think this is a rebellion,” he said. “I think it is atavistic. Nobody knows exactly what it is, they don’t know what they’re doing, why are they there? Well they’re just mad. Well, is it right for a Christian to get involved in a protest of anger?”
“If you’re going to demonstrate demonstrate for righteousness, demonstrate to lift the yoke of oppression, demonstrate to help those that are poverty stricken. But don’t just go out and mess up a park and just scream and tear up things. Why would you get involved in something like that? It’s formless, it has no purpose, but it could be used for radicals who want to destroy this nation, and that’s the bad part of it.”
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the only part I don't understand is why ANYONE (christian or not) would give a shit about anything that Pat Robertson says
can anyone explain ?
I'm a Christian, and I don't pay him much mind.
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I'm a Christian, and I don't pay him much mind.
Neither do I.
Except when he is doing 1,000 pounds on the leg press, even if they are quarter reps. :)
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How dare you ignore the man who teaches the Lord's word as it should be taught.
To hell you go.
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liberals can't be christians. Remember?
Jesus was a liberal soo..
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Robertson primary issue is that Christians believe some crazy ass shit and if they say it in public they won't get elected. Basically he's saying to hide your true beliefs from the public
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Jesus was a liberal soo..
No he wasn't.
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No he wasn't.
LoL
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Jesus was a liberal soo..
Oh yeah...show me how Jesus was a lib. U can't prove what he was either way. If anything Jesus was right down the center. Its only the modern liberal Church both Catholic and Protestant that have made Jesus look like half a fag..instead of who he was. Besides I don' think it really matters.
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Oh yeah...show me how Jesus was a lib. U can't prove what he was either way. If anything Jesus was right down the center. Its only the modern liberal Church both Catholic and Protestant that have made Jesus look like half a fag..instead of who he was. Besides I don' think it really matters.
Correctamundo
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i don't know if he was a lib but i do know he was black
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No he wasn't.
I thought he fed thousands of people with 5 fish and 2 loaves of bread?
that kind of handouts is just like the 12% of our population on EFT/food stamps.
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I thought he fed thousands of people with 5 fish and 2 loaves of bread?
that kind of handouts is just like the 12% of our population on EFT/food stamps.
Wrong. That was private charity, and conservatives tend to donate to charity more than liberals.
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Wrong. That was private charity, and conservatives tend to donate to charity more than liberals.
Any link to support this claim?
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Wrong. That was private charity, and conservatives tend to donate to charity more than liberals.
interesting thought process
are you going to tell us that Jesus only advocated private charity and not any form of state sponsored assistance (such as food stamps) and was actually against such a thing?
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interesting thought process
are you going to tell us that Jesus only advocated private charity and not any form of state sponsored assistance (such as food stamps) and was actually against such a thing?
Until/unless you have specific passages, in which He instructs government entities to do such, I think Beach Bum will do just that.
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Until/unless you have specific passages, in which He instructs government entities to do such, I think Beach Bum will do just that.
so you believe the absense of such a passage is proof to you (or Bum - since you've chosen to speak for him) that Jesus would not be in favor of public assistance....such as food stamps?
do I understand you correctly?
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so you believe the absense of such a passage is proof to you (or Bum - since you've chosen to speak for him) that Jesus would not be in favor of public assistance....such as food stamps?
do I understand you correctly?
I didn't speak for Bum. I simply gave a guess as to how he might answer that question. He might feel differently.
Public assistance, per se, isn't the issue. Public assistance INDEFINITELY, in lieu of actually working (when one is capable of doing so) is NOT something Christ advocated.
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I didn't speak for Bum. I simply gave a guess as to how he might answer that question. He might feel differently.
Public assistance, per se, isn't the issue. Public assistance INDEFINITELY, in lieu of actually working (when one is capable of doing so) is NOT something Christ advocated.
other than you, who mentioned INDEFINITELY and in lieu of working ?
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Any link to support this claim?
Nope. Didn't look for one.
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I didn't speak for Bum. I simply gave a guess as to how he might answer that question. He might feel differently.
Public assistance, per se, isn't the issue. Public assistance INDEFINITELY, in lieu of actually working (when one is capable of doing so) is NOT something Christ advocated.
I agree with this, although the issue I was responding to was the claim that Jesus feeding the masses was akin to government-sponsored food stamps. Just pointed out that Jesus wasn't acting on behalf of the government. He was a private party donating his time and talents, which is nothing like food stamps, but is just like people who donate to charity.
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Jesus did tend to hang out with the likes of prostitutes, thieves, and others of their ilk. He did say that "Do healthy people come to the hospital? No. Sick people do." If Jesus were here, he would be among the OWS protesters trying to cure their various ailments and debaucheries.
Pat Robertson is wrong. Christians should be right in the middle of the OWS movement.....by spreading the Gospel and preaching tolerance and love through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.
I'm just sayin'. :)
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Jesus is supposed to have said this too
Matthew 25:31-46
New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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Wrong. That was private charity, and conservatives tend to donate to charity more than liberals.
hahahahhaha private charity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahaha so funny. wow, the born-again types are so angry and repressed. You can always tell the ones who have this big pile of "oh i was a terrible lib and now i hate them..."
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Jesus is supposed to have said this too
Matthew 25:31-46
New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
And this has what to do with food stamps or public aid again? This, as Beach Bum said, sound like private charity, people doing such thing of their own free will, not by some government mandate or law.
And what does any of this have to do with the clowns on OWS, who (for all their "Share the wealth" flap) are bellyaching about feeding the homeless, who keep showing up there?
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And this has what to do with food stamps or public aid again? This, as Beach Bum said, sound like private charity, people doing such thing of their own free will, not by some government mandate or law.
And what does any of this have to do with the clowns on OWS, who (for all their "Share the wealth" flap) are bellyaching about feeding the homeless, who keep showing up there?
Ding! Correct. :)
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And this has what to do with food stamps or public aid again? This, as Beach Bum said, sound like private charity, people doing such thing of their own free will, not by some government mandate or law.
And what does any of this have to do with the clowns on OWS, who (for all their "Share the wealth" flap) are bellyaching about feeding the homeless, who keep showing up there?
the "least of your brothers" part
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Straw Douche, how many hours per week do you spend volunteering and how much of your yearly income do you donate to charity?
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the "least of your brothers" part
You're comparing personal giving from someone's heart, with a federal program, fueled by MANDATORY taxation in which the giver has no say and is impersonal on the matter?
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Oh yeah...show me how Jesus was a lib. U can't prove what he was either way. If anything Jesus was right down the center. Its only the modern liberal Church both Catholic and Protestant that have made Jesus look like half a fag..instead of who he was. Besides I don' think it really matters.
Well i certainly can. He hung out with the poor helped them and feed them, said you cant buy your way in to heaven turn the other cheek, help your next etc...
He was hated by the rich because of this. Turn the other cheek, help your next etc...
He was as liberal as you can be
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No he wasn't.
Helped the poor check
Redistribution of wealth check
Hated by the rich check
Helping the poor, curing and feeding them. How can you in any way reject he was as liberal as they come ???
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Well i certainly can. He hung out with the poor helped them and feed them, said you cant buy your way in to heaven turn the other cheek, help your next etc...
He was hated by the rich because of this. Turn the other cheek, help your next etc...
He was as liberal as you can be
youre a fuking moron of a gimmick.
conservatives believe in helping others, actually they do more so than liberals.
the difference is conservatives dont believe and MAKING YOU CARE FOR OTHERS!!!
LIBERALS DOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats the difference jack ass
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Helped the poor check
Redistribution of wealth check
Hated by the rich check
Helping the poor, curing and feeding them. How can you in any way reject he was as liberal as they come ???
did he do this b/c he was forced to or b/c he felt it the right thing to do?
if he was simply b/c he felt it was the right thing to do he probably has more in common with conservatives than liberals seeing as cons do this more so than libs.
Hate to burst your liberal media rattled brain.
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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730
"when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."
sounds alot like something youve been describing and trying to pass off as liberal...
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"And he says the differences in giving goes beyond money, pointing out that conservatives are 18 percent more likely to donate blood. He says this difference is not about politics, but about the different way conservatives and liberals view government."
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""You find that people who believe it's the government's job to make incomes more equal, are far less likely to give their money away," Brooks says. In fact, people who disagree with the statement, "The government has a basic responsibility to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves," are 27 percent more likely to give to charity."
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As usual you are digressing from the point
This wasnt a repub vs lib debate
The point is was Jesus a lib?
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)”
“What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.”
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
(Matthew 5.43-45 ESV
If a politician said these things you would be screaming socialist commie traitor prick at him
Jesus was undeniably a lib
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Helped the poor check
Redistribution of wealth check
Hated by the rich check
Helping the poor, curing and feeding them. How can you in any way reject he was as liberal as they come ???
Whose wealth did he redistribute again? When did Jesus take someone else's money and give it to a poor person?
Hated the rich? Ummmm....NOOOOO!!! Zaccheus was rich; Jesus didn't hate him. Nicodemus was rich; Jesus was friends with him.
Then, there's His parable of the talents where the man with one talent had it taken from him and given to the man who had TEN talents (doubling his initial total of 5 talents). "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away" Matt. 25:29.
Then, you get to behavorial issues. Jesus said that if someone lusts after a woman, he's committing adultery in his heart. Yeah, that's REEEAAAAALLLYY going to come from the mouth of a liberal. ::)
Where in the world are you getting this foolishness?
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Can you read? I didnt say he hated the rich i said the rich hated him!!
Jesus spend his time with the poor, the beggars and prostitutes etc..
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)”
Jesus was THE lib of all time
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Can you read? I didnt say he hated the rich i said the rich hated him!!
Jesus spend his time with the poor, the beggars and prostitutes etc..
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)”
Jesus was THE lib of all time
Can YOU read? Zaccheus was rich; Nicodemus was rich; Did either of them hate Jesus? NO!!
Jesus spent time with people from ALL WALKS OF LIFE, not jus the poor, the beggars and the prostitute:
And since you're citing verses, why not address the ones I cited, namely Matt. 25:29
For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Then, there's that adultery thing!!
Liberal? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!
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So a man that spends all his time with the poor and says a rich man can't enter heaven is NOT a lib ???
"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away."
What do YOU think this means? You need to read it in Context
Jesus not a lib ::) Yeah right
Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
'Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. 'Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
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Where did Jesus advocate gay marriage, abortion, etc?
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Where did Jesus advocate gay marriage, abortion, etc?
Where did he advocate against them?
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Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
Do you want more i can copy paste all night the bible is on my side ;D
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So a man that spends all his time with the poor and says a rich man can't enter heaven is NOT a lib ???
"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away."
What do YOU think this means? You need to read it in Context
Jesus not a lib ::) Yeah right
Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
'Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. 'Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
Try that again. It's "Blessed are the poor IN SPRIT, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:3). That has NOTHING to do with being monetarily poor. You can be loaded and be poor in spirit.
And, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS; for they shall be filled." (Matt 5:6)
And I read that parable of the talents in context, which refutes your take further. The two servants who each doubled the talents they were given were blessed. Notice that THEY WERE NOT MANDATED to give what they earned to the servant who had just one talent (i.e. no "redistribution of wealth").
To top it all off, Jesus NEVER SAID that a rich man can never enter heaven. You missed the rest of that particular passage, "When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?' "Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'"
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Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
Do you want more i can copy paste all night the bible is on my side ;D
Yet, He did NOT tell that to Zaccheus (he gave his money away of his own conviction), nor Nicodemus (no account of his giving away anything).
Then, there's the centurion, whose servant was healed. Why didn't Jesus tell him to give up his money (centurions made a pretty penny back then)?
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Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
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i LOVE it when repubs try to claim Jesus.
they can claim anything they want about the dems being socialist, worthless, lazy, etc - that's cool.
But Jesus? Sowwy, he wasn't a neocon nor a tea partier.
Why is Jesus a Liberal?
Webster's dictionary defines a Liberal as one who is open
minded, not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional
or established forms or ways. Jesus was a pluralist Liberal
who taught that one need not conform to strict and orthodox
views of God, religion, and life. He rejected greed, violence,
the glorification of power, the amassing of wealth without
social balance, and the personal judging of others, their
lifestyles and beliefs.
Over and over again, He taught us to believe in and live a
spiritual and ethical life based in our essential, inherent
goodness. What Jesus promoted was succinct set of
spiritual principals and a way of life based upon the of love,
compassion, tolerance, and a strong belief in the importance
in giving and of generosity to those in need.
While not Biblical scholars, our common sense
understanding of His lessons as philosophically and
politically Liberal is founded upon Jesus' own words (see
quotes below), modern interpretations of Liberation Theology,
and in the positive, loving and compassionate application of
His teachings - from the many early Saints to Mother
Theresa and Liberation Theology.
Certainly, Jesus brought a radically Liberal theology to the
Orthodox believers of his time. Jesus IS a Liberal even today
because now more than ever, His principals align with the
very core of Liberal Beliefs.
Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal
Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute
you; [Matthew 5:44]
The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]
Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to
you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]
Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]
Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]
Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]
Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]
Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]
Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]
Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]
Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
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Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
And, where does Jesus mandate that every rich person do that again?
Zaccheus?
Nicodemus?
The Roman Centurion?
Where is this universal mandate that all rich people give up their goods?
Furthermore, there's that pesky parable again, where the guy with one talent had that TAKEN FROM HIM and given to someone with ten talents.
Matthew 25:29, "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away"
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240 - do you think liberals like straw, lurker, benny, blackass, YOURSELF, are open minded?
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Who is talking about Mandating?
Mark 12:41-44 He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. 43 Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."
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do you think your open minded
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Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Sounds pretty lib huh?:)
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do you think your open minded
No, i know what I believe unless proven otherwise.
Hey - remember Bob Casey trying to speak about pro-life at a Demo convention? guess what happened to him?
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i LOVE it when repubs try to claim Jesus.
they can claim anything they want about the dems being socialist, worthless, lazy, etc - that's cool.
But Jesus? Sowwy, he wasn't a neocon nor a tea partier.
Why is Jesus a Liberal?
Webster's dictionary defines a Liberal as one who is open
minded, not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional
or established forms or ways. Jesus was a pluralist Liberal
who taught that one need not conform to strict and orthodox
views of God, religion, and life. He rejected greed, violence,
the glorification of power, the amassing of wealth without
social balance, and the personal judging of others, their
lifestyles and beliefs.
Over and over again, He taught us to believe in and live a
spiritual and ethical life based in our essential, inherent
goodness. What Jesus promoted was succinct set of
spiritual principals and a way of life based upon the of love,
compassion, tolerance, and a strong belief in the importance
in giving and of generosity to those in need.
While not Biblical scholars, our common sense
understanding of His lessons as philosophically and
politically Liberal is founded upon Jesus' own words (see
quotes below), modern interpretations of Liberation Theology,
and in the positive, loving and compassionate application of
His teachings - from the many early Saints to Mother
Theresa and Liberation Theology.
Certainly, Jesus brought a radically Liberal theology to the
Orthodox believers of his time. Jesus IS a Liberal even today
because now more than ever, His principals align with the
very core of Liberal Beliefs.
Biblical Quotes Supporting the Belief that Jesus Is A Liberal
Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute
you; [Matthew 5:44]
The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]
Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to
you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]
Whoever wrote this crap apparently forgot that this scenario wasn't about the death penalty. It was about the Pharisees trying to trip up Jesus. The text even says so, "They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him."
Plus, the law said that BOTH adultering parties, not just the woman, were to be executed. The "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her" is based on one thing. In such cases, the spouse(s) of the adultering party (or parties) iniated the rock-hurling. This woman's husband or the wife of the man, with whom she was cavorting, was nowhere in sight.
You will also note that at no time does Jesus or the woman deny her actions or that, by law, SHE DESERVES the death penalty. Hint: It's called MERCY. She is being spared from death for committing a capital offense.
Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]
Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]
Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]
Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]
The Old Testament already covered how the poor were to be treated,
"Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan." Exodus 22:22
"Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits." Exodus 23:6
"During the seventh year, let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove." Exodus 23:11
"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:10
"Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly." Leviticus 19:15
"When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 23:22
And there is ZILCH in either testament about the so-called separation of church and state. Again, that was a reply to a trap question by the Pharisees, trying to get Jesus on record as saying not to pay taxes (in order to have Him arrested).
Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]
Key word: INVITE! That is, doing something of your own free will, NOT via government fiat or law. And a feast is an OCCASIONAL thing, not something done in perpetuity, to feed somebody indefinitely. Do you throw a birthday party every day and feed every single impoverished person in the process? NO!!
Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]
Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]
Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
[/quote]
Jesus said, "Think not that I've come to destroy the law. I have come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it." Jesus not only followed the laws strictly, He took it to the next level, focusing on the HEART of the law, not merely going through the motions.
And, as for being liberal, explain why Jesus stated that, when it came to adultery, if a man merely LUSTED after a woman, he had committed adultery in his heart.
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Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Sounds pretty lib huh?:)
Nope!! Do you hold banquets on a daily basis? Of course not! It's an occasional thing, not designed to feed someone in perpetuity. They eat once; then LEAVE!!!
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Who is talking about Mandating?
Mark 12:41-44 He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. 43 Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."
And this has what to do with Jesus' supposed liberalism?
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"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty."
-Proverbs 22:16
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"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty."
-Proverbs 22:16
LMFAO!!!!
CORZINE - OBAMA - PELOSI - MADDOFF - MCCAULLIFE -
ANYONE? ? ? ? ? ?
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And this has what to do with Jesus' supposed liberalism?
Poor= give little ( FOX would freak over this, where is the fairness etc...)
Rich.. well you get the picture
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LMFAO!!!!
CORZINE - OBAMA - PELOSI - MADDOFF - MCCAULLIFE -
ANYONE? ? ? ? ? ?
You need to learn to see the difference between a philosophy and people.
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"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
-1 Timothy 6:9-10
Not only was Jesus a lib he was also ANTI Capitalism
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You need to learn to see the difference between a philosophy and people.
Liberalism is a corrupt bankrupt philosophy and works solely for the big govt pofs you love so mnuch.
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"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
-1 Timothy 6:9-10
Not only was Jesus a lib he was also ANTI Capitalism
You miss again! One more time, see the parable of the talents.
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Liberalism is a corrupt bankrupt philosophy and works solely for the big govt pofs you love so mnuch.
We are talking Jesus here rest your mind from your hatred for 5 min
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"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
-1 Timothy 6:9-10
Not only was Jesus a lib he was also ANTI Capitalism
LOL.
CLINTON - MADDOFF - OBAMA - CORZINE - PELOSI - REID - HARMON
DO YOU REALIZE THE RICHEST IN THE CONGRESS ARE FAR LEFT LIBS YOU MORON?
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LOL.
CLINTON - MADDOFF - OBAMA - CORZINE - PELOSI - REID - HARMON
DO YOU REALIZE THE RICHEST IN THE CONGRESS ARE FAR LEFT LIBS YOU MORON?
I know you are not the brightest so i will explain again:
The debate between me and Mcway is about Jesus and his philosophy nobody is talking about CLINTON - MADDOFF - OBAMA - CORZINE - PELOSI - REID - HARMON
Other than you
Stop acting like a 3-year old crying for attention ;)
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I know you are not the brightest so i will explain again:
The debate between me and Mcway is about Jesus and his philosophy nobody is talking about CLINTON - MADDOFF - OBAMA - CORZINE - PELOSI - REID - HARMON
Other than you
Stop acting like a 3-year old crying for attention ;)
sorry - why is that the greediest, most corrupt, most thieving, always happen to be the far leftist libs?
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sorry - why is that the greediest, most corrupt, most thieving, always happen to be the far leftist libs?
Your Perception creates your reality
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"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."
-1 Timothy 6:9-10
Not only was Jesus a lib he was also ANTI Capitalism
This "wanting to get rich" and the man w/great wealth that went away sad are issues of the heart....not that earthly wealth is a sin.
"The LOVE of money" and "eagerness for money" is what is being addressed. It's an issue of the heart.
It is not a sin to be rich, but greed is a sin....also holding other "gods" before the True God is a sin...as the man's "god" was money.
The verses here show that the man said he "kept all the commandments" Jesus had listed until Jesus pointed out his greed. He was not "perfect" as no one is and we are all unable to get into heaven through works.
Matt 19
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
He had a chance to hang out w/God in the flesh and he chose his earthly riches over this. It would be a difficult choice for some w/great earthly wealth. An issue of the heart.
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We should definitely help those that cannot help themselves (or who are trying but need a little boost) but the issue is w/people that are able-bodied and able-minded that refuse to work/help themselves.
2 Thess 3
We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
Proverbs 12
24 Diligent hands will rule,
but laziness ends in forced labor.
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Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
Do you want more i can copy paste all night the bible is on my side ;D
Who donates more? Libs or cons?
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Can you read? I didnt say he hated the rich i said the rich hated him!!
Jesus spend his time with the poor, the beggars and prostitutes etc..
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)”
Jesus was THE lib of all time
Lol you do know the "eye of a needle" isn't what your thinking of right?
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We should definitely help those that cannot help themselves (or who are trying but need a little boost) but the issue is w/people that are able-bodied and able-minded that refuse to work/help themselves.
2 Thess 3
We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
Proverbs 12
24 Diligent hands will rule,
but laziness ends in forced labor.
The Bean giving clarity to the thread
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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730
"when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."
sounds alot like something youve been describing and trying to pass off as liberal...
So cons give more even though they make less
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""You find that people who believe it's the government's job to make incomes more equal, are far less likely to give their money away," Brooks says. In fact, people who disagree with the statement, "The government has a basic responsibility to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves," are 27 percent more likely to give to charity."
Going back to what butter bean said.
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:)
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So cons give more even though they make less
I was'nt debating Con vs lib.
I said Jesus was a liberal.
This is not knee-paddding just the truth
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I was'nt debating Con vs lib.
I said Jesus was a liberal.
This is not knee-paddding just the truth
I think arguing about it is pretty ridiculous to be honest but the facts disagree with you AS ALWAYS!!!
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I think arguing about it is pretty ridiculous to be honest but the facts disagree with you AS ALWAYS!!!
Spend his time with poor and preached they would inherit the Earth, Heaven..check Welfare-bum-lover :)
Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
'Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. 'Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
Anti-Capitalist...Check
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)”
Said to people they should give away their belongings to enter the kingdom of god and live in his spirit..Check Communist:)
Matthew 19:21-22: "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow
me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great
possessions."
Against Flat tax..Check
Mark 12:41-44 He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. 43 Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."
Didnt like the concept of fundraising dinners...
Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Nemesis on the rich...Check
Luke 16:19-25 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man's table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. He called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony.
Anti coorporatism anti Big ownership...Check
Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."
comments(1134)
The evidence is overwhelming people
;)
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Did you not understand from the links I posted that cons do more to help the poor than lobs even though libs make more?
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Did you not understand from the links I posted that cons do more to help the poor than lobs even though libs make more?
So why do poor people have it much better in Scandinavia compared to the US?
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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730
"when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."
sounds alot like something youve been describing and trying to pass off as liberal...
This John Stossel story is absolute bullshit. Absolute, complete bullshit. It is as warped as so-called "reporting" gets.
The "liberal" representation was centered around an area of San Francisco that is 100% retail, non-residential, and is known to be frequented by some of the wealthiest people in the country. The stores are Neiman-Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, and several other extremely expensive boutiques. Flat out, it is a tourist center for the rich.
If anything, it shows that people who shop at Walmart give more than people who shop at Neiman-Marcus.
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So why do poor people have it much better in Scandinavia compared to the US?
::) LMFAO does that prove anything to you?
fact of the matter is conservative do more to help poor ppl than liberals do...deal with it samson
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240 - do you think liberals like straw, lurker, benny, blackass, YOURSELF, are open minded?
of course i am.
i think some liberal, and some conservative ideas are good ones.
i don't care what ppl do with their bodies, their health, whatever. I don't care who fcks who, and who marries who.
I don't claim to know what power put us here. I dont claim to know one religion or party (both manmade) to be correct.
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This John Stossel story is absolute bullshit. Absolute, complete bullshit. It is as warped as so-called "reporting" gets.
The "liberal" representation was centered around an area of San Francisco that is 100% retail, non-residential, and is known to be frequented by some of the wealthiest people in the country. The stores are Neiman-Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, and several other extremely expensive boutiques. Flat out, it is a tourist center for the rich.
If anything, it shows that people who shop at Walmart give more than people who shop at Neiman-Marcus.
LMFAO sigh, are these studies bull shit as well?
Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.
-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html
Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.
and what of the donations of time and blood?
why did you leave those out of your analysis?
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plus - the people that watch the nonstop news... are probably OLDER, right?
I mean, teenagers aren't watching CBS nightly news, that shit is boring.
People in their 20/30s are often at work or soccer games, etc.
But people in their 50s-70s? THey watch the damn news.
and in 1994, old people didn't want to hear nonstop BJ news.
In 2011, they're a tad freakier. Call it the viagra factor?
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LMFAO sigh, are these studies bull shit as well?
Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.
-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html
Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.
and what of the donations of time and blood?
why did you leave those out of your analysis?
Then to John Stossel, I would suggest using a better method than comparing Walmart shoppers to Neiman-Marcus shoppers. Because he is only making an argument to show wealthy people are less likely to donate than working-class people.
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Then to John Stossel, I would suggest using a better method than comparing Walmart shoppers to Neiman-Marcus shoppers. Because he is only making an argument to show wealthy people are less likely to donate than working-class people.
and seeing as libs make more than cons, that means what?
why didnt you address the other studies and points made like the facts about charitable donations and lib/con states?
facts are facts son, deal with it.
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and seeing as libs make more than cons, that means what?
Within the working class? Because that's what your study says.
why didnt you address the other studies and points made like the facts about charitable donations and lib/con states?
facts are facts son, deal with it.
I don't know. You'd have to tell me more about Arthur Brooks, so I can know if he is obviously partisan and therefore biased in any way.
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Within the working class? Because that's what your study says.
I don't know. You'd have to tell me more about Arthur Brooks, so I can know if he is obviously partisan and therefore biased in any way.
yes within the working class...
classic fallacy, brooks is a supposed independent...whether or not he is or is a right wing nut job doesnt disprove or discredit the facts that cons donate more time and blood.
so again why dont you make mention of these?
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yes within the working class...
This is supposed to be a comparison of the wealthy class to the working class, because that's exactly what Stossel's "study" turns out to be.
classic fallacy, brooks is a supposed independent...whether or not he is or is a right wing nut job doesnt disprove or discredit the facts that cons donate more time and blood.
He is as biased as it gets. I can't use anything he says.
If it turned out that working-class conservatives give more to charity than working-class liberals, then I'd have to hope that wealthy people would follow the example of working-class conservatives.
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::) LMFAO does that prove anything to you?
fact of the matter is conservative do more to help poor ppl than liberals do...deal with it samson
So why does poor people have it so much better in Scandinavia with all those libs compared to the US with so many Conservatives? Im waiting for an answer.
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Did you not understand from the links I posted that cons do more to help the poor than lobs even though libs make more?
I thought we were talking Jesus
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This is supposed to be a comparison of the wealthy class to the working class, because that's exactly what Stossel's "study" turns out to be.
He is as biased as it gets. I can't use anything he says.
If it turned out that working-class conservatives give more to charity than working-class liberals, then I'd have to hope that wealthy people would follow the example of working-class conservatives.
and what of the other studies and facts seperate from his that back up his findings?
LMFAO so the ad hominem attacks are credible in your eyes then huh? what a moron.
dispute the facts dont say i dont like that guy so his facts are not valid...::)
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So why does poor people have it so much better in Scandinavia with all those libs compared to the US with so many Conservatives? Im waiting for an answer.
why are the poor doing so bad in this country with the most liberal senator ever in the white house and a lib senate along with a lib house for 2 years?
neither of these does anything to disprove that conservatives do more to help the poor and disenfrachised then your ass does...
DEAL WITH IT!!!
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why are the poor doing so bad in this country with the most liberal senator ever in the white house and a lib senate along with a lib house for 2 years?
neither of these does anything to disprove that conservatives do more to help the poor and disenfrachised then your ass does...
DEAL WITH IT!!!
I dont' think either really help either.
I do think that Cons give more money to church groups and things, but I also believe that the church groups often take that money and buy themselves big cars and nice houses.
When was the last time you saw a poor pastor at a megachurch?
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I dont' think either really help either.
I do think that Cons give more money to church groups and things, but I also believe that the church groups often take that money and buy themselves big cars and nice houses.
When was the last time you saw a poor pastor at a megachurch?
they arent giving time and blood to churches...
I agree that neither does near enough however our poor arent what many would consider poor either.
I agree with you about the mega churchs which is why im not a big fan of joel olsteen here in houston.
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and what of the other studies and facts seperate from his that back up his findings?
I didn't dispute the fact that an argument may be made that working-class conservatives donate more than working-class liberals.
As a matter of fact, I said that Neiman-Marcus shoppers should follow their lead if it is true.
LMFAO so the ad hominem attacks are credible in your eyes then huh? what a moron.
Not sure what you mean here.
dispute the facts dont say i dont like that guy so his facts are not valid...::)
But I haven't disputed anything.
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Where did he advocate against them?
Where did he advocate against beastiality and incest?
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I didn't dispute the fact that an argument may be made that working-class conservatives donate more than working-class liberals.
As a matter of fact, I said that Neiman-Marcus shoppers should follow their lead if it is true.
Not sure what you mean here.
But I haven't disputed anything.
my point exactly, you dismiss the guys findings b/c you perceive him to be bias not b/c his findings are inaccurate...
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my point exactly, you dismiss the guys findings b/c you perceive him to be bias not b/c his findings are inaccurate...
I wouldn't necessarily dismiss what he claims to have found, just because he is a shameless tool for the extreme right wing. If what he claims to have found is true, then it can be accessed without having to use him as a source.
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I wouldn't necessarily dismiss what he claims to have found, just because he is a shameless tool for the extreme right wing. If what he claims to have found is true, then it can be accessed without having to use him as a source.
OR and this would be the logical thing to do, it could be refuted by using facts...
That is if the facts didnt already point to what he concluded...
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OR and this would be the logical thing to do, it could be refuted by using facts...
That is if the facts didnt already point to what he concluded...
But I'm not trying to refute it. That's the thing.
It sounds logical to me, that working-class conservatives donate more of their money than working-class liberals. The conservatives in this case are more likely to be influenced by their pastors, and that probably has a lot to do with it. They're more likely to donate to their church, for sure.
I wish the pastors were less prone to using their pulpits to make political speeches, and to direct people on how to vote, but that's another story.
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240 - "liberals can't be Christians". Now you get it!
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"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty."
-Proverbs 22:16
And what of he who increases his wealth WITHOUT oppressing the poor?
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Didn't we just go through this?
Spend his time with poor and preached they would inherit the Earth, Heaven..check Welfare-bum-lover :)
Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
'Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you will be filled. 'Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
NOPE!!
Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT (which can happen to anyone, regardless of income); blessed are they who hunger and thirst FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS; for they shall be filled.
That ain't got nothing to do with glorifying poverty and villifying those with material wealth.
Anti-Capitalist...Check
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)”
As usual, you forgot the rest of that passage, verse 26, For with men this is impossible; but with God, ALL THINGS are possible. That would mean that rich people can enter the Kingdom of Heaven; imagine that.
Said to people they should give away their belongings to enter the kingdom of god and live in his spirit..Check Communist:)
Matthew 19:21-22: "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow
me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great
possessions."
Correction: He said that to one apparently pompous young man. Notice again that he did not order Zaccheus, Nicodemus, the Roman Centurion, or any other rich person he met to give away all his belongings.
Against Flat tax..Check
Mark 12:41-44 He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. 43 Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."
This says ZILCH about opposing a flat tax; in fact, this isn't even a tax; it's an offering at the temple.
Didnt like the concept of fundraising dinners...
Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
This doesn't sound like a political dinner, whatsoever, especially since emperors and procurators weren't elected.
Nemesis on the rich...Check
Luke 16:19-25 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man's table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. He called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony.
Again, see Zaccheus, the centurion, Nicodemus, et. al.
Anti coorporatism anti Big ownership...Check
Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."
comments(1134)
There's that pesky parable of the talents, again (Matt. 25):
"For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them. To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents. In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them.
The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master
And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The evidence is overwhelming people
;)
You are overwhelming DEAD WRONG!!!
;D
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But I'm not trying to refute it. That's the thing.
It sounds logical to me, that working-class conservatives donate more of their money than working-class liberals. The conservatives in this case are more likely to be influenced by their pastors, and that probably has a lot to do with it. They're more likely to donate to their church, for sure.
I wish the pastors were less prone to using their pulpits to make political speeches, and to direct people on how to vote, but that's another story.
actually according to the studies it has more to do to their views on govt not religion. You see conservatives dont believe its the govt role to redistribute wealth and make sure ppl are taken care of. Thus they give b/c they fell compelled to, liberals much like yourself and your gimmick whork feel that its ok to tell others what to do with their money just not back it up with actions of your own...
hope this helps, doubt it will
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actually according to the studies it has more to do to their views on govt not religion.
In too many churches, the two have become inseparable.
You see conservatives dont believe its the govt role to redistribute wealth and make sure ppl are taken care of. Thus they give b/c they fell compelled to, liberals much like yourself and your gimmick whork feel that its ok to tell others what to do with their money just not back it up with actions of your own...
Where did I say that?
hope this helps, doubt it will
It didn't.
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In too many churches, the two have become inseparable.
agreed, but that has nothing to do with the reason why conservatives give more than liberals...sorry just facts...
Where did I say that?
it was hypebole to excentuate the idiocy of your post that cons donate b/c their pastors tell them to...::)
It didn't.
I knew it wouldnt ;)
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Didn't we just go through this?
NOPE!!
Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT (which can happen to anyone, regardless of income); blessed are they who hunger and thirst FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS; for they shall be filled.
That ain't got nothing to do with glorifying poverty and villifying those with material wealth.
As usual, you forgot the rest of that passage, verse 26, For with men this is impossible; but with God, ALL THINGS are possible. That would mean that rich people can enter the Kingdom of Heaven; imagine that.
Correction: He said that to one apparently pompous young man. Notice again that he did not order Zaccheus, Nicodemus, the Roman Centurion, or any other rich person he met to give away all his belongings.
This says ZILCH about opposing a flat tax; in fact, this isn't even a tax; it's an offering at the temple.
This doesn't sound like a political dinner, whatsoever, especially since emperors and procurators weren't elected.
Again, see Zaccheus, the centurion, Nicodemus, et. al.
There's that pesky parable of the talents, again (Matt. 25):
"For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them. To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents. In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them.
The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master
And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You are overwhelming DEAD WRONG!!!
;D
I like it. :)
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agreed, but that has nothing to do with the reason why conservatives give more than liberals...sorry just facts...
it was hypebole to excentuate the idiocy of your post that cons donate b/c their pastors tell them to...::)
I knew it wouldnt ;)
Agree. People donate because their pastors tell them too. Right. ::)
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That may be. I'd like to know where working-class conservatives make their donations.
By the way, there's nothing wrong with people being influenced by their churches to donate. That's an honorable role for the church to play. But if the church has a habit of preaching politics rather than spirituality, and a significant amount of these "donations" are going to support that, then I'd like to know that, too.
As of right now, I cannot see how a measure could be made as to the political ideology of a person donating something, unless it is a political donation. The roundabout ways that have been offered, such as comparing shoppers at a Neiman-Marcus in San Francisco to Walmart shoppers in Bowling Green, or comparing generalities of a "red" state to "blue" state are just worthless and potentially dishonest.
In any case, I am approaching this with an open mind.
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they arent giving time and blood to churches...
I agree that neither does near enough however our poor arent what many would consider poor either.
I agree with you about the mega churchs which is why im not a big fan of joel olsteen here in houston.
I agree that if you look at the "poor" in the US, that there is no comparison between our poor and any other "poor" around the world... Even our poorest live very very well compared to a lot of other countries in the world.