Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Oly15 on January 29, 2012, 10:43:47 AM
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Why is this even used today? Sure it gives bbers an extra boost and can make a difference, but why not just increase the GH even more to get to the size needed? Let's say a bber is at 260 offseason weight and wants to get to 280, why not just take more GH instead of insulin? Insulin is the culprit of all the ugly distended abdomens in todays competitors and I don't think its worth getting 10-20 extra pounds while sacrificing your small waist.
In the golden ages, none of those bbers had access to slin much less gh, and YET! Many of todays bodybuilders actually look smaller and shittier due to the decreased shoulder to waist ratio. The guys from the 70's and maybe 80's seemed to be able to achieve so much more with far less drugs to pick from.
Thoughts?
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You'll be stuck at a certain size w/o slin...trust me. In order to push past the barrier of "freaky" to super-freak you have to use it. You can get huge off just HGH and AAS, but the bottom line is that you cannot push past a certain size without it.
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You'll be stuck at a certain size w/o slin...trust me. In order to push past the barrier of "freaky" to super-freak you have to use it. You can get huge off just HGH and AAS, but the bottom line is that you cannot push past a certain size without it.
Not even if you push the GH up to 40-45 iu ED?
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Not even if you push the GH up to 40-45 iu ED?
I don't even know if Jay Cutler could afford 40IU's/day.
I live very very frugally...make decent money too. Still kills me financially to run 20IU's of Omni's a day.
Even then...can't imagine trying to handle the sides at that high of doses, or if it would even produce good returns for what you're investing into it. I have a feeling you'd have more growth in your hands and feet than actual muscle growth :o
Ultimately, if you want to be a professional slin is needed for the jump. If you want to be mr gym, GH and AAS is all you need
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I don't even know if Jay Cutler could afford 40IU's/day.
I live very very frugally...make decent money too. Still kills me financially to run 20IU's of Omni's a day.
Even then...can't imagine trying to handle the sides at that high of doses, or if it would even produce good returns for what you're investing into it. I have a feeling you'd have more growth in your hands and feet than actual muscle growth :o
Ultimately, if you want to be a professional slin is needed for the jump. If you want to be mr gym, GH and AAS is all you need
Can you recommend an insulin protocol and what type of insulin do you think is most effective?
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would like to hear protocols too,,,,im thinking the pros do not take 5-10 iu before workout as that is what a gymrat takes and probably doesn't do jack shit in the big scheme of things. im thinking the big guys abuse slin,,,prolly with every meal,,,,maybe a good 20 iu pre-workout at the lowest,,,,,,with a meal 1 hour before hand you might be able to get by on 80g carbs with tha 20iu,,,just training and no cardio,,,,maybe 40-50,,,if you hit he solid carbs right after training
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I don't even know if Jay Cutler could afford 40IU's/day.
I live very very frugally...make decent money too. Still kills me financially to run 20IU's of Omni's a day.
Even then...can't imagine trying to handle the sides at that high of doses, or if it would even produce good returns for what you're investing into it. I have a feeling you'd have more growth in your hands and feet than actual muscle growth :o
Ultimately, if you want to be a professional slin is needed for the jump. If you want to be mr gym, GH and AAS is all you need
there are plenty of people who can afford 40iu per day.. besides, a large amount of guys sell gear at double the cost to local gym rats so they get to use as much as they want for free
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Can you recommend an insulin protocol and what type of insulin do you think is most effective?
IMO Humalog fits my purposes just fine...some guys like humalin b/c it fits their schedule better. It really doesn't matter as long as you plan the half life accordingly. Lantus is nice as well, doesn't peak as hard so risk for going hypo is less.
I shoot 8IU's of log before each meal (6 meals daily), although I wouldn't recommend this for a beginner.
What type of compounds will you be taking with the insulin?
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IMO Humalog fits my purposes just fine...some guys like humalin b/c it fits their schedule better. It really doesn't matter as long as you plan the half life accordingly. Lantus is nice as well, doesn't peak as hard so risk for going hypo is less.
I shoot 8IU's of log before each meal (6 meals daily), although I wouldn't recommend this for a beginner.
What type of compounds will you be taking with the insulin?
Well ive never done insulin but i was curious of how to use it
right now im taking Tren,EQ. Test Prop, Mast
would a shot of humalog post work out be good for a beginner?
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there are plenty of people who can afford 40iu GH per day (although I have not named a single one in this post :-\).. besides, a large amount of guys like me sell gear at double the cost to local gym rats so they get to use as much as they want for free
FIXED for FACTS ^^^^
PT
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would a shot of humalog post work out be good for a beginner?
5iu of Log post workout is a good place to start.
Then slowly ramp it up to 10iu.
Make sure you have a Glucometer and understand how many carbs you need and when.
A lot of guys these days are shooting Lin pre workout with great results. That way you get the intra workout and post workout benefits.
8)
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5iu of Log post workout is a good place to start.
Then slowly ramp it up to 10iu.
Make sure you have a Glucometer and understand how many carbs you need and when.
A lot of guys these days are shooting Lin pre workout with great results. That way you get the intra workout and post workout benefits.
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Thanks Overlord, would it be best to shoot 5iu GH with the 5iu Humalog post work out? or should they be taken separate?
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Thanks Overlord, would it be best to shoot 5iu GH with the 5iu Humalog post work out? or should they be taken separate?
I have heard good things about both protocols.
From what i gather if you are looking for size gains off the GH, then shoot it all PWO with the Slin. I really don't think it matters if you mix them in the same pin or not. I was told by a MD a few years ago to never mix Slin with anything, but i cannot remember exactly why off the top of my head.
I only have one trial run with Slin under my belt and i made some very impressive gains on it. I was shooting 2iu of GH in the morning and 2iu more PWO with a 10iu shot of Log. I did this for about 2 months and gained about 12 pounds while getting leaner.
Most guys i know who are big into slin shoot around 30-40iu total every day and they say the magic happens when you use it pre workout.
Slin is a great drug as long as you respect it.
Good luck!
8)
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I have heard good things about both protocols.
From what i gather if you are looking for size gains off the GH, then shoot it all PWO with the Slin. I really don't think it matters if you mix them in the same pin or not. I was told by a MD a few years ago to never mix Slin with anything, but i cannot remember exactly why off the top of my head.
I only have one trial run with Slin under my belt and i made some very impressive gains on it. I was shooting 2iu of GH in the morning and 2iu more PWO with a 10iu shot of Log. I did this for about 2 months and gained about 12 pounds while getting leaner.
Most guys i know who are big into slin shoot around 30-40iu total every day and they say the magic happens when you use it pre workout.
Slin is a great drug as long as you respect it.
Good luck!
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Thanks, great info
One more question, should slin be cycled or can you run at as long as you want?
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slin need to be shoot with a meal, so all the carbs you eat go to your muscle
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Why are all these guys producing huge distended guts from the slin if they are eating clean food? Wouldn't they have to be shoveling in fat with the slin? From my understanding, the guts are from visceral fat, not subcutaneous.
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Why are all these guys producing huge distended guts from the slin if they are eating clean food? Wouldn't they have to be shoveling in fat with the slin? From my understanding, the guts are from visceral fat, not subcutaneous.
Try eating 6000 calories in a day and tell us if your gut got any bigger.
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The gut is not going to get fat and pregnant like these guys have now from eating 6000 calories a day. Their gut is big because it is fat. Not from stretching. So what I'm still wondering is why the insulin is causing them to become stomach whales.
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I don't even know if Jay Cutler could afford 40IU's/day.
I live very very frugally...make decent money too. Still kills me financially to run 20IU's of Omni's a day.
Even then...can't imagine trying to handle the sides at that high of doses, or if it would even produce good returns for what you're investing into it. I have a feeling you'd have more growth in your hands and feet than actual muscle growth :o
Ultimately, if you want to be a professional slin is needed for the jump. If you want to be mr gym, GH and AAS is all you need
even 20iu a day is overkill and excessive. it will not do much in the way of building muscle but will still increase the size of someones hands and head by a good margin.
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The gut is not going to get fat and pregnant like these guys have now from eating 6000 calories a day. Their gut is big because it is fat. Not from stretching. So what I'm still wondering is why the insulin is causing them to become stomach whales.
when someone uses 200iu of insulin a day, or more, they tend to overeat, by a lot. pros definitely eat more than 6000 calories a day but 6,000 is enough tol cause the gut if it's from high GI carbs, or if it's from food that causes a lot of intestinal bloating, either way it can happen depending on what someone eats.
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5iu of Log post workout is a good place to start.
Then slowly ramp it up to 10iu.
Make sure you have a Glucometer and understand how many carbs you need and when.
A lot of guys these days are shooting Lin pre workout with great results. That way you get the intra workout and post workout benefits.
8)
i would start at 3iu pre workout. i really don't think it's possible to go hypo with the way most people eat when bulking. if they were lifting fasted, for some reason, it's possible but a large meal before lifting or a shake with carbs in it drank during the workout will prevent anyone from getting too light headed when using such a low amount of slin.
i don't think people need more than 5-10 iu at a time of slin, unless they are going for the pro type physique.
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even 20iu a day is overkill and excessive. it will not do much in the way of building muscle but will still increase the size of someones hands and head by a good margin.
Why do you think this? From what I've heard, that's not even that much on the pro level. And how do you know more GH won't build more muscle? 8 ius builds X amount. Bump it up to 16 and you get even more gains. So is there a point of diminishing returns after a certain amount do you think?
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a lot of pros IV, which will make 10iu clear out of the system within a few hours. 20iu shot sub-q, like most people do, will last for well over a day in the body before it clears out. it will still cause changes in physique, the type of fullness in the muscles, and the bodyfat loss and extreme vascularity, but from the standpoint of anabolism it's going to be hitting a point of severe diminishing returns and not that effective.
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i would start at 3iu pre workout. i really don't think it's possible to go hypo with the way most people eat then bulking. if they were lifting fasted, for some reason, it's possible but a large meal before lifting or a shake with carbs in it drank during the workout will prevent anyone from getting too light headed when using such a low amount of slin.
i don't think people need more than 5-10 iu at a time of slin, unless they are going for the pro type physique.
i messed around with slin for a while. id agree with this. except long acting worked better for , way better.. and with that i needed at least 100iu to get the nice effects. but short acting, just a few iu seemed to give me full benefits. really just only looking fuller and getting more pumped though. the long acting seemed to actually help thicken me a bit.
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i messed around with slin for a while. id agree with this. except long acting worked better for , way better.. and with that i needed at least 100iu to get the nice effects. but short acting, just a few iu seemed to give me full benefits. really just only looking fuller and getting more pumped though. the long acting seemed to actually help thicken me a bit.
So when using the h-log you noticed you needed fewer iu's for the same effects? Did it keep you full all day or just for a little while?
And aesthetics, thanks for the input.
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yeah, when using humalin-r since it's longer lasting than humalog it doesn't peak as high initially and you don't feel the same craving or feel the need to use as many carbs with it. the insulin protocol of 10carbs to 1iu that milos made, was with humalog in mind, with humalin-r you can get away with 5carbs per iu, and if you use a lot of hgh and your insulin resistance is higher you can use even less carbs. it's very subjective.
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when using r how long should it be taken pre-workout? i looked at a graph and it has a flat peak between 2-4 hours,,then it tails off. so i guess if you lift for an hour then you should take it 1.5 hours to 2 hours pre-workout with a meal? i would think shooting R right before a workout would be a waste,,,,its not even hitting you till an hour after your done lifting
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~90 minutes to feel it kick in during lifting.
it's not a waste running it outside of the lifting timeframe. while having insulin present in the middle of your workout helps a bit to stave off catabolism, if you are already running a boatload of steroids it's not really that big of an issue since nitrogen/protein retention is so high. mostly insulin is used to blow muscles up like a balloon and when you inject the slin is irrelevant to getting that look, just provided you inject a lot and eat a lot of carbs - i don't recommend this because that's also how you get a giant stomach!
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So when using the h-log you noticed you needed fewer iu's for the same effects? Did it keep you full all day or just for a little while?
And aesthetics, thanks for the input.
nah when using humalog i just didnt get better effects with increasing doses, a few iu worked as good as 20iu.
lantus (24 hour) insulin worked better than any doseage of humalog.
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~90 minutes to feel it kick in during lifting.
it's not a waste running it outside of the lifting timeframe. while having insulin present in the middle of your workout helps a bit to stave off catabolism, if you are already running a boatload of steroids it's not really that big of an issue since nitrogen/protein retention is so high. mostly insulin is used to blow muscles up like a balloon and when you inject the slin is irrelevant to getting that look, just provided you inject a lot and eat a lot of carbs - i don't recommend this because that's also how you get a giant stomach!
thank you bro, ive enjoyed reading your posts alot of good info ive been getting from them. do you feel that all the carbs guys take in (5-10iu) can put on extra fat for the guys who get fat easy,,,,or does the slin just push them in the muscle and they dont really get stored? also the blow up look you describe,,,is this just while on the slin or permanent? im guessing the glycogen is getting pushed into the muscles which is only permanent, but this glycogen being jammed in there is also anabolic and causes some of the look to stay after discontinuing the slin? or do the "top" guys never discontinue the slin,,,so i guess in that case the look would never go away ,lol
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thank you bro, ive enjoyed reading your posts alot of good info ive been getting from them. do you feel that all the carbs guys take in (5-10iu) can put on extra fat for the guys who get fat easy,,,,or does the slin just push them in the muscle and they dont really get stored? also the blow up look you describe,,,is this just while on the slin or permanent? im guessing the glycogen is getting pushed into the muscles which is only permanent, but this glycogen being jammed in there is also anabolic and causes some of the look to stay after discontinuing the slin? or do the "top" guys never discontinue the slin,,,so i guess in that case the look would never go away ,lol
it's not really fat in the normal sense but more fat in sub-q tissue, around organs and causing a fatty liver because the cells (and muscle cells) stop taking in glucose, or can't intake the sugar if it's fructose/sucrose so the body dumps it all into sub-q tissue and into the liver. essentially, just like your muscles get blown up with excessive carbs and insulin, when you use too much, your liver does the same and combine that with a lot of food that bloats you (like oats) that remain in the intestines, you get a huge bloated stomach. easily remedied and isn't permanent, but it requires going off carbs or using DNP, which will also have a similar effect of flattening out muscles as well - very fine line between using just enough slin and cycling carbs in order to get the phil heath 2011 mr olympia look or going overboard and getting palumboism.
yeah, just while on slin, hgh, drol, primo, etc... do you retain the cosmetic effects of blown up muscles. once you go off, you deflate, which is why there are drug timing protocols that get used and need to be implemented at certain timing leading up to a show to get the perfect look and illusion pros have, like phil heath lol
and yeah, slin itself is anabolic, but too much is counter-productive. however, massive slin and carb usage is used mainly just to blow the muscles up and not really to get extra anabolism and muscle fiber growth, "mature muscle" as most people refer to it. pros just go for an illusion of size and not really the hard and dry muscles that competitors like coleman and cutler had before ~2002
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Several month ago I was looking for best slin protocol and so far I found there is no protocol for slin, nothing to do pow or pre workout, is all about carbs you eat, you inject slin with every higth carb meal so to make sure it goes to your muscle not in to the guts. Gh will decrease blood sugar, so you eat to spike glucose level and then you inject fast active slin when glycogen level is high enough. So then you wondering why bbs have big gut? more iu more carbs you need ;)
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Several month ago I was looking for best slin protocol and so far I found there is no protocol for slin, nothing to do pow or pre workout, is all about carbs you eat, you inject slin with every higth carb meal so to make sure it goes to your muscle not in to the guts. Gh will decrease blood sugar, so you eat to spike glucose level and then you inject fast active slin when glycogen level is high enough. So then you wondering why bbs have big gut? more iu more carbs you need ;)
VERY VERY VERY GOOD ,, bravo to this pupil! in a sea of balonie retardation of unbelivable degre that i read now,, and i said i would never write on steroid boarding again but this made me comment ,, bravo pupil!
this is the most most accurate posting i have evr read on this steorid boarding,,
to astetic,, you talk balonie ,, 20 iu is beginer dose for profesionals 15-20 ,, many do more ,, dont make me thikn of you liek no one do me favour ,, 20 iu is over do lol fucking no wonder you are al 190 lb gymnasium rats ,,
HGH in high dose is THE FUCKIN REASON YOU DONT GET FAT FROM INSULINA AND THE FAT IS ONLY BECAUSE WHATEVER YOU EAT GO INTO THE MUSCLE INCLUDING THE FAT! SO YOU GET IT ALL FROM WITHIN MUSCLE....THIS IS WHY YOU CAN SE AB LINE...BUT YOU ARE STILL 9%!
on web site i will talk about insulina in detail so you get it ,, we inject much more than misereble 10 iu lol
gh15 approved
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i didn't say anything about pro dosages and none of that was recommendation for looking like a pro, especially not insulin dosage - you yourself even said insulin abuse is what ruined modern bodybuilding. i know full well that the only reason pros look like they do now, at 260 pounds at 5% bodyfat is because of the HGH and the insulin, only reason.
but i don't think for most people that are on a limited budget using 20iu a day is very economical, since all the benefits of fullness, vascularity and defined abs, will be lost the minute they run out of money and go off the hgh.
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i didn't say anything about pro dosages and none of that was recommendation for looking like a pro, especially not insulin dosage - you yourself even said insulin abuse is what ruined modern bodybuilding. i know full well that the only reason pros look like they do now, at 260 pounds at 5% bodyfat is because of the HGH and the insulin, only reason.
but i don't think for most people that are on a limited budget using 20iu a day is very economical, since all the benefits of fullness, vascularity and defined abs, will be lost the minute they run out of money and go off the hgh.
meh, insulin is dirt cheap :P