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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:08:39 AM

Title: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:08:39 AM
If I had some strength facts it would be easier to spot juicers and fake naturals in the gym, since I suck at sizeing up height, weight, arm girth...


Counting weights is easier


How much can naturals bench press? (touch and go, hardly anyone pauses them)


let's just do bench press since squat is too hard to say with different styles....


and everyone trains bench press...

Title: Re: among my many adventures, I had sex with a black lady with amputated legs (free)
Post by: pedro01 on February 15, 2012, 01:10:30 AM
Damn - she charged me for the pleasure...
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: G_Thang on February 15, 2012, 01:51:13 AM
he didnt lay out shit.  do you not remember what he said months back where the natural limits  for a black man?  vince!  gh15 is full of shit!
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 03:29:29 AM
he didnt lay out shit.  do you not remember what he said months back where the natural limits  for a black man?  vince!  gh15 is full of shit!

he said black men can be 230lbs @ 15 % bodyfat a day or two ago
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 04:09:50 AM
If I had some strength facts it would be easier to spot juicers and fake naturals in the gym, since I suck at sizeing up height, weight, arm girth...


Counting weights is easier


How much can naturals bench press? (touch and go, hardly anyone pauses them)


let's just do bench press since squat is too hard to say with different styles....


and everyone trains bench press...



bodybuild has absolitly nothing to do with strength ,, if it had something to do with strength i would be 10 times mr o and world record holder of mr o title,, strength has NOTHING to do with bodybuild,, all the pussy lifters notice how they develp nice ,, they play around and cut lean and large,, its all in the drug ,, ofcourse you need strength ....but naturals can have amazing TENDOIN STRENGTH ,, when i was natural i worked triceps with 1 dumbel over head 2 arms ...i used to do it with 140 lb dumbel ...NATURAL! 10 TIMES  3 sets... did it give me 18 19 20 inch arm incondition? HELL FUCKING NO IT DIDNT,, my tendoins were super strong though and my bonesss...kind of like matt c...basicaly a joke but lift heavy,,well matt c is on hormones was is play around with them ,, i was truly natural those days,, but still all my strength did was put me in doubel digit bodyfat and ....made me lift heavy lol


strength has NOTHING to do with the final product you see today on stages


gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 04:13:20 AM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: dj181 on February 15, 2012, 04:52:40 AM
i'm weak as fuck so therefore i'm small as fuck

but... i had decent chest strength, at my best i did a triple pause with 225 and i did dips with 100 pounds added round my waist for 6 good reps

and guess what? my chest was my best bodypart

no correlation btw size and strength my ass
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on February 15, 2012, 04:57:02 AM
bodybuild has absolitly nothing to do with strength ,, if it had something to do with strength i would be 10 times mr o and world record holder of mr o title,, strength has NOTHING to do with bodybuild,, all the pussy lifters notice how they develp nice ,, they play around and cut lean and large,, its all in the drug ,, ofcourse you need strength ....but naturals can have amazing TENDOIN STRENGTH ,, when i was natural i worked triceps with 1 dumbel over head 2 arms ...i used to do it with 140 lb dumbel ...NATURAL! 10 TIMES  3 sets... did it give me 18 19 20 inch arm incondition? HELL FUCKING NO IT DIDNT,, my tendoins were super strong though and my bonesss...kind of like matt c...basicaly a joke but lift heavy,,well matt c is on hormones was is play around with them ,, i was truly natural those days,, but still all my strength did was put me in doubel digit bodyfat and ....made me lift heavy lol


strength has NOTHING to do with the final product you see today on stages


gh15 approved

what was your weight when you were natural GH15??..
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NineGeez on February 15, 2012, 05:00:54 AM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved


kuclo uses 200lb dumbells on incline you moron
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Mrdibbs on February 15, 2012, 05:02:31 AM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved

(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/d/5/d5404-china_1.jpg)

I wish i was that flat.....
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Moen on February 15, 2012, 05:05:19 AM
Strenth is more (as in %) neurological while 'size' is more chemical so you have more chance of becoming a strength wonder while being natural, than you have of becoming a size wonder.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Krankenstein on February 15, 2012, 05:06:12 AM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved

"I pick things up and I put them down" ......training the GH15 way   ::)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on February 15, 2012, 05:10:05 AM
It's logical that when you add insulin and gh (water bloat and all that good stuff) the correlation between size and strength diminishes by some degree.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 05:47:26 AM
ok ,, once again all the kids bring exampples of some china little fella on all thre hormone sin the world,, im talking the smallest thinest fella in olympica flat muscle they lift tremendous amoutn of weight,, they dont look like no bodybuild,, and also this china fella doesnt look like no bodybuild but he does have more shape

kuklo the kid work with 200lb dumbelsl? for what for photoshot? you think it is a problem to work with 200lb dumbells? he fucking sit on the hammer do inclines with 5 plates each side ,, this is numbers that 200lb bodybuild do ...

no conection betwen strength and muscle past certain point in the drug intake ...usualy that point is when added hgh and insulina

strength does NOT = muscle

period



also you can tel me you are this and that 300 lb for pause million times...i dont see it on results! what i saw with the fella who wrote this was FLAT MUSCLE,,

strangth does not = muscle

there is no natural bodybuild

and! the fellas i cant stand the most are the fellas  like dj101 the ones who always talk about this and that but in reality will never go on hormones because they dont have what it takes to get in bodybuild because they are scared pussys so...they go with natural natural and alwya sstuck in no where to be found 160lb in shape when pay attention out of shape when not pay attention ,,,and you aree weak as fuck has nothing to do with the fact you are small as fuck,, you are SMALL as fuck because you dont do hormones! i can not belive how ,, if you only knew how much of a matt c you come off like ,, it is simly digusting,, get on the hormones already ,, you will forveer be nothing! if you keep doing notnig,, you wont even hit 180lb in very good condition in yoru specific situation

i swear sometime i truly think i talk to many kidos here,, more and more dumb kidos join this boarding and i start getting bored with this

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: deceiver on February 15, 2012, 05:54:16 AM
Strength is all training, size is all drugs.

That's it fellas, gh15 is right on this one.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 05:58:09 AM
im right about ANY THING i say ,, any thihng,, i just dont hav etime to go into detail too much mes with website and treats and elfs getting scared alot to deal with ,, lots of convicts mother fucking scambags in the cult,, but if you wil look into bible i wrote in the past EVERYTHING you need to know to turn to a profesional or...atleast a top amatuer so you can fight for profesional card

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Tito24 on February 15, 2012, 05:58:28 AM
(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/d/5/d5404-china_1.jpg)

I wish i was that flat.....

hes a midget too.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Your Average GymRat on February 15, 2012, 06:13:39 AM
This is one of those threads where you realize gh15 has no idea what he's talking about. The "olympic" "powerlifters". Lol. Moron.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Krankenstein on February 15, 2012, 06:20:09 AM
i swear sometime i truly think i talk to many kidos here,, more and more dumb kidos join this boarding and i start getting bored with this

gh15 approved

Nothing...and I mean NOTHING is stopping you from going you stupid fuck.  Only your constant craving for attention and praise is keeping you here....as well as alive.  Its the only thing that drives you to not eat a bullet the instant you wake from whatever drug induced slumber you have partaken in.

Far as many are concerned...."Dont let the door hit you, where the good lord (and many schmoes) split you"
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NineGeez on February 15, 2012, 06:22:05 AM
This is one of those threads where you realize gh15 has no idea what he's talking about. The "olympic" "powerlifters". Lol. Moron.

yep,, hes just a troll

gh15 if hormones are everything why is dc so huge on hrt,,
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=415078.0

^^ this
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on February 15, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/export/sites/default/ironmind/hosseint02wc_lg.jpg

(http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2000/September/Images/tavakoli2.jpg)

Wished I looked this flat.


On topic: You can be fucking strong as a natural as long as you built your work capacity over the years. Then: High frequency training = animal.

lol @ tendon strength btw. A tendon doesn't lift shit. It's just connecting your muscle to the bone.  :D

small muscle and high strength means: high number of motor unit recruitment. In other words, you're more efficient in sending signals to your muscles, using a higher percentage of fibers than someone who is less trained.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on February 15, 2012, 09:03:44 AM
Strongest guy I ever saw also was the fattest.  Remember him?  Anthony Clark.  Guy was a beast, but round and fat.

(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/aclark.jpg)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Tito24 on February 15, 2012, 09:05:37 AM
(http://www.geekologie.com/2010/07/22/wtf-beer-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on February 15, 2012, 09:10:32 AM
(http://www.geekologie.com/2010/07/22/wtf-beer-1.jpg)

That's fucking awesome and creepy at the same time.  Total alpha male addition to the wet bar.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: deceiver on February 15, 2012, 09:14:31 AM
http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/export/sites/default/ironmind/hosseint02wc_lg.jpg

(http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2000/September/Images/tavakoli2.jpg)

Wished I looked this flat.


On topic: You can be fucking strong as a natural as long as you built your work capacity over the years. Then: High frequency training = animal.

lol @ tendon strength btw. A tendon doesn't lift shit. It's just connecting your muscle to the bone.  :D

small muscle and high strength means: high number of motor unit recruitment. In other words, you're more efficient in sending signals to your muscles, using a higher percentage of fibers than someone who is less trained.

Hope this helps.

This. In details it's all about neurotransmiters like serotonin, acetocholine and so on.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:20:59 PM
i'm weak as fuck so therefore i'm small as fuck

but... i had decent chest strength, at my best i did a triple pause with 225 and i did dips with 100 pounds added round my waist for 6 good reps

and guess what? my chest was my best bodypart

no correlation btw size and strength my ass

this actually proves there is NO CORRELATION

your lifts are nothing to write home about so it is truly unrelated that you have good chest development


Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Dr Dutch on February 15, 2012, 01:23:30 PM
Strongest guy I ever saw also was the fattest.  Remember him?  Anthony Clark.  Guy was a beast, but round and fat.

(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/aclark.jpg)
x2  sumo wrestlers got the biggest muscles in the world. Fact.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:25:30 PM
im talking the smallest thinest fella in olympica flat muscle they lift tremendous amoutn of weight

this man is probably the smallest in the olympics

vehemently claims natural

good example of what you are talking about, small muscles big strength output

(http://users.telenet.be/tom.goegebuer/images/EK08/Abs2.jpg)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Dr Dutch on February 15, 2012, 01:26:55 PM
this man is probably the smallest in the olympics

vehemently claims natural

good example of what you are talking about, small muscles big strength output

(http://users.telenet.be/tom.goegebuer/images/EK08/Abs2.jpg)
Nice you posted a new pic of yourself, PNS....
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: The RedMeatKid on February 15, 2012, 01:27:20 PM
Girls and sons who have not been loved by their fathers seek attention once teens and adults to compensate for what they didnt have originally. Fathers either left them alone, or were distant most of the time and not encouraging them. Some even despised them which would shape their personality and the way they d interact with others for the rest of their life.
They are extremistic in everything they do, always looking exageratly for attention, and have troubles adapting to society's rules, because they also have troubles defining their own identity and respecting authority and hierarchy.


Also boys who got picked on by others during childhood and adolescence -often sons without a father figure- try to compensate by lifting weights, to develop muscles and survive in ther male world. They re insecure because they re girly, childish, feminine having been raised by a single mom. They lift obsessively hoping it will transform them into men, to compensate for their lack of influence from a father figure that was not there. Unfortunaltey they can get as big as they can it doesnt cure their insecurity and who they truly are, how they grew up being raised by a single mom. They re no as manly as other men whatever they do, and they often have a big lack of masculine presence they dont know how to balance, hence often being borderline homosexuals while trying to get their manhood back thru various manly activities (mma, cars, weight lifting etc). They are often the ones that, in order to get respect from other males will go the steroids route to get even "bigger" attemptint to cure their insecurity , but being natural not being "enough", they still feel "too small", insecure, amongst other males. The lack of a father figure also often means they didnt have guidance to continue studies and are often working shitty manual jobs.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on February 15, 2012, 01:28:29 PM
Tom goegebuer hahaha, I know some dude that trains at his gym. Seems to be a likeable fella. Though I do believe he was lucky that halil mutlu dropped out in 2008.  :P

I'm guessing he will max his squat somewhere from 180 to 200kg's, which is over triple bodyweight. Guy is extremely strong for his weight.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:29:34 PM
Nice you posted a new pic of yourself, PNS....

what can i say


the old batch kigtropin really does provide that shrink wrapped abdominal tunnel look
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 01:38:43 PM
GH15 + others of this theory, I agree big muscles do not always mean big strength however I do not grow from training moderate weight and higher reps. I only grow from moving big weights at low reps that pushes me, once I can do 4 sets at 7-8 reps the weight goes up and the reps back down.
To give an example of big weights and big muscles ... Ronnie Coleman... He was mega strong and had huge muscle bellys.. I never seen him ever pick up a light weight or train light to moderate.. His theory keep piling on the weight and eventually the muscle will have to adapt to it and grow.. which is what I agree with. Dorian & Mentzer had simular theorys
I would have to say in this instance that I do not fully agree. I think drugs play a huge, huge part, but if you got good response to drugs and you can lift heavy I think you will benefit more than using fanny weights
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:40:55 PM
GH15 + others of this theory, I agree big muscles do not always mean big strength however I do not grow from training moderate weight and higher reps. I only grow from moving big weights at low reps that pushes me, once I can do 4 sets at 7-8 reps the weight goes up and the reps back down.
To give an example of big weights and big muscles ... Ronnie Coleman... He was mega strong and had huge muscle bellys.. I never seen him ever pick up a light weight or train light to moderate.. His theory keep piling on the weight and eventually the muscle will have to adapt to it and grow.. which is what I agree with. Dorian & Mentzer had simular theorys
I would have to say in this instance that I do not fully agree. I think drugs play a huge, huge part, but if you got good response to drugs and you can lift heavy I think you will benefit more than using fanny weights

ronnie coleman's earlier videos suggest otherwise
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 01:41:31 PM
yep,, hes just a troll

gh15 if hormones are everything why is dc so huge on hrt,,
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=415078.0

^^ this

danta is bgi hormone abuser,, and he is nto huge he is EVRY fat,, he hold fat from insulina and testosterona,, he is not huge anything ,, that fella would stand on stage in the 180lb zone! and this is after man years of hormonization and dealing an dconected everywhere possible ,,

danta is THE DEFINTIITION of how NOT to do bodybuild

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 01:44:24 PM
strenght is more to do with tendoins and bones than actual muscle,, you will learn it ,,


gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:46:13 PM
strenght is more to do with tendoins and bones than actual muscle,, you will learn it ,,


gh15 approved

but bones and tendons cannot contract, only store elastic energy

so when the momentum and bouncing movements are taken away...

all that is causing movement is muscular contraction?

 :-\
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: StanZoLOL on February 15, 2012, 01:48:05 PM
danta is bgi hormone abuser,, and he is nto huge he is EVRY fat,, he hold fat from insulina and testosterona,, he is not huge anything ,, that fella would stand on stage in the 180lb zone! and this is after man years of hormonization and dealing an dconected everywhere possible ,,

danta is THE DEFINTIITION of how NOT to do bodybuild

gh15 approved

He's (DC) holding a lot of water in that pic for just being on HRT, if that's what he said...
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 01:51:01 PM
but bones and tendons cannot contract, only store elastic energy

so when the momentum and bouncing movements are taken away...

all that is causing movement is muscular contraction?

 :-\


actual lifting heavy has nothnig to do with muscles per say ,, the most muscular fellas are usualy the weakest ones,, estrogen is HIGHLY importent for stregnth


gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 01:51:33 PM
ronnie coleman's earlier videos suggest otherwise


Am I missing something? I only watched bits but I not seen light at all?
Even if he is lifting light, doesnt that suggest he got bigger, allot bigger once he starting piling on the weight?
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:53:06 PM

actual lifting heavy has nothnig to do with muscles per say ,, the most muscular fellas are usualy the weakest ones,, estrogen is HIGHLY importent for stregnth


gh15 approved

(http://www.quantumpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pie-mind-blown.jpg)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 01:53:54 PM
He's (DC) holding a lot of water in that pic for just being on HRT, if that's what he said...

no ,, danta holding fat,, it is ofcourse water too but he hold alot of lower back fat from the one picture you all talkign about,, he has a huge problem of estrogen but! his fat is under the belly buttom zone ,, water is diff look ,, he has BOTH but he has LOTS of fat ,, in the muscle and outside muscle ,, in the muscle big time too,, he can never get in to bodybuild condition and remain large,, just doesnt have it ,, he can get small and be bodybuild conditin ,, well nto smal but in the 180lb zone- 190lb zone,, this is with all the hormones in the world,, this is ofcourse not small but relativly to the 240lb profesionals now day it is SMALLER!

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 01:54:14 PM
Am I missing something? I only watched bits but I not seen light at all?
Even if he is lifting light, doesnt that suggest he got bigger, allot bigger once he starting piling on the weight?

have you tried watching the video entirely before just posting down garbage


he said he usually goes relatively light as in 12-15 repetitions with good form


getting bigger is related to increasing the dose not changing up training routines

Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 01:58:37 PM
(http://www.quantumpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/pie-mind-blown.jpg)


take for example groink from this bording who hs com muscle in the 215 lb zone...he has about 210-215 6% on him after droping the water etc ,, then  take mat c from this boarding....162lb? same height abotu both ,, i tihnk groink is closer to 6 feet mat c is 5'9 ,, still! it is a good 40 lb diff in muscularoty size between the 2 in the least

but! mat c will wipe the flor upside down inside out with groink ,, absolitly destroy him and will win any lifting competition,, to a point groink wil be embarsed,,

this! is what i mean when i say the more muscular you are the weaker you become proportionaly ,, bones and tendoins need to be strong,, when you have big muscles the muscle torn easily ,, you get hurt very fast ,, you playh with balonie,, its the stiffer fellas who hav etheir bons and tendoins up there due to the fact they cant hold much muscle so the bones and tendoins are getgins stronger with age and also....in their prime they are very very strong


no need to argue with me i made millions out of bodybuild,, im always right

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 01:59:35 PM
have you tried watching the video entirely before just posting down garbage


he said he usually goes relatively light as in 12-15 repetitions with good form


getting bigger is related to increasing the dose not changing up training routines



No thats why I said I did not watch it alll, 15 minutes was too much of a bore to me. But thanks for the info, I stand corrected on Ronnie then
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:02:07 PM
so basically what dorian yates is selling is massively flawed?


piramid to 1 super heavy set

always more weight more and more
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:06:21 PM
this guy says size and strength go together like love and marriage


he also said he wanted to be a bodybuilder when he didnt know any better now he just wants to be big and strong

 ???

Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 02:07:37 PM
so basically what dorian yates is selling is massively flawed?


piramid to 1 super heavy set

always more weight more and more

It worked for him, it worked for Mentzer and there are many others who promote weight over reps
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:09:38 PM
It worked for him, it worked for Mentzer and there are many others who promote weight over reps

but i read that mentzer didnt train the way he advertized at all
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on February 15, 2012, 02:10:23 PM

actual lifting heavy has nothnig to do with muscles per say ,, the most muscular fellas are usualy the weakest ones,, estrogen is HIGHLY importent for stregnth


gh15 approved

Yes that's why we see shitloads of women squatting 500 pounds.  ::)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 02:11:46 PM
what dorian sell is a protien powder,, he make his livign out of lies like any bodybuild,, the only reason im honest with you is that i dont talk on my real name


gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 02:14:05 PM
Yes that's why we see shitloads of women squatting 500 pounds.  ::)

did not say you need extra high high level estrogen ,, but the reason most of you are importents,, the reason bodybuild today cant even fuck ...many dont fuck they cant...they need the viagra an dcialis,, in very young age...reason is that they dont know what they doing,, half of the fellas that i seen muscular here would lose it in mater of 90 days after stoping hormones 9 0 days,,

female are weak their bones and tendoins are not as strong as males due to the way they are build,, female are child bariers they have strngth but other strngth ,, trength of the soul!

what i say is history in bodybuild,, I CHANGED HISTORY ,, moment you argue it less you will understand it more

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 02:15:16 PM
but i read that mentzer didnt train the way he advertized at all

Hmm where did you read that, that would be an interesting read..
He did many speeches, books and seminars preeching it, to be honest he seemed very very pasionate about that, rest periods and the amount of protein required to grow new tissue. I have to say I share many of his concepts and do think that he was a very bright individual but got silienced because his views where not of the main stream.
Big like how GH15 says its all in the drugs, well this is no good for the current supplement eliete and neither was Mentzers preechings back then
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:18:44 PM
what dorian sell is a protien powder,, he make his livign out of lies like any bodybuild,, the only reason im honest with you is that i dont talk on my real name


gh15 approved

hi dorian  8)


gh15 is an amazing thing, sometimes i get scared that it will turn out a hoax and that it was all a dream or something


Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:20:36 PM
Hmm where did you read that, that would be an interesting read..
He did many speeches, books and seminars preeching it, to be honest he seemed very very pasionate about that, rest periods and the amount of protein required to grow new tissue. I have to say I share many of his concepts and do think that he was a very bright individual but got silienced because his views where not of the main stream.
Big like how GH15 says its all in the drugs, well this is no good for the current supplement eliete and neither was Mentzers preechings back then

i read it on elitefitness forums


been trying to find the thread back for ages, it was really interesting


they claimed mentzer trained "very much like HST"


mentzer later also descended into madness running in the streets naked and whatnot


maybe his hit preaching days were the phase 1 and 2 of full blown insanity


also they said that the whole HIT ideology started with arthur jones trying to sell nautilus equipment and so he had to create an entire huge scam with theories to discard traditional methods of weight training and of course TRADITIONAL EQUIPMENT; he went as far as saying that working out with barbells or performing traditional and olympic lifts will DESTROY YOUR SKELETON. this arthur jones guy was a lunatic but of course it was all a scam to push nautilus

the whole HIT story is nothing but fables to lead people astray into wanting nautilus equipment
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 15, 2012, 02:21:40 PM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved

"Strong bones usually means weak muscles" ......what??????? Lol
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 02:24:15 PM
no!,, strong bones strong dendoins...it is more of genetic! inherit,, it has to do with genetic in THIS case,, you cna hav ebig muscle and be quite strong but i can show you many who have small muscle and shaped horibly as in feeling and looking like a board ,, stiff! and they are the strongest fellass in their local gymnasiums

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 02:26:11 PM
just take a look into mat c....he is porobably strongest getbiger,, probably he is the ones,, yes he did hormones but still horible muscle shape well not horible but lacking and stiff looking and yet EXTREMLY STRONG

sevaste ...have better muscle shape ,, he actualy has good muscle shape when body fat low...but! look at him when he is 180lb he is stronger than many MANY 230lb fellas,, i mean WIPE FLOOR WITH THEM,, he has very strong tendoins and bones

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 02:29:50 PM
i read it on elitefitness forums


been trying to find the thread back for ages, it was really interesting


they claimed mentzer trained "very much like HST"


mentzer later also descended into madness running in the streets naked and whatnot


maybe his hit preaching days were the phase 1 and 2 of full blown insanity


also they said that the whole HIT ideology started with arthur jones trying to sell nautilus equipment and so he had to create an entire huge scam with theories to discard traditional methods of weight training and of course TRADITIONAL EQUIPMENT; he went as far as saying that working out with barbells or performing traditional and olympic lifts will DESTROY YOUR SKELETON. this arthur jones guy was a lunatic but of course it was all a scam to push nautilus

the whole HIT story is nothing but fables to lead people astray into wanting nautilus equipment

Lol, possibly, but there is allot of people who praise his preechings and have had alot of success from it...
Maybe this could be down to how the individual responds to stress genetically..
I have never grew one ounce of muscle lifting light to moderate with higher reps. I find it taxes my cardio more than my muscle, ok it gives a good pump, put I get a good pump from running and that doesnt make my muscles grow bigger
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Your Average GymRat on February 15, 2012, 02:30:16 PM
just take a look into mat c....he is porobably strongest getbiger,, probably he is the ones,, yes he did hormones but still horible muscle shape well not horible but lacking and stiff looking and yet EXTREMLY STRONG

sevaste ...have better muscle shape ,, he actualy has good muscle shape when body fat low...but! look at him when he is 180lb he is stronger than many MANY 230lb fellas,, i mean WIPE FLOOR WITH THEM,, he has very strong tendoins and bones

gh15 approved
How the hell do you know how strong the gypsy is? Did they have a write-in weight lifting contest? You really are a jackass.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 15, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
I'm confused. Now strong tendons means weak muscle? How so? I know I just want to hear YOU explain this.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:33:17 PM
Lol, possibly, but there is allot of people who praise his preechings and have had alot of success from it...


I've searched the net far and wide for pictures of these people and concluded most are delusional twinks
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NeilGM on February 15, 2012, 02:35:03 PM
I've searched the net far and wide for pictures of these people and concluded most are delusional twinks


So its just go in, do a little big and up the dose?
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 02:35:58 PM


along the year sevaste sent me quite few lifting videos,, that i knwo are legit,, for i trained in europe and i know it was legit liftings,, he is extremly strong for 180lb zone,, EXTREMLY strong,,not eveything i get i show to everyone

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 15, 2012, 02:37:13 PM
along the year sevaste sent me quite few lifting videos,, that i knwo are legit,, for i trained in europe and i know it was legit liftings,, he is extremly strong for 180lb zone,, EXTREMLY strong,,not eveything i get i show to everyone

gh15 approved


sounds great

it's good to be strong


i hate lay nortom tho
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: gh15 on February 15, 2012, 02:37:39 PM
I'm confused. Now strong tendons means weak muscle? How so? I know I just want to hear YOU explain this.

van b----------------------------------------------------------------> is right there,, i just say hands on from many many years of experience i probably can get you techinical answer liek you love but too much effort to go look for it ,, or to even think about it right now when i about to go train chest
maybe later ,, van b can come here and explain or maybe even you can ,, or...few others will do it gladly for you my love

gh15 approved
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 15, 2012, 02:44:23 PM
I'll be waiting for his answer. SOON.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Cutlet767 on February 15, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
bodybuild has absolitly nothing to do with strength ,, if it had something to do with strength i would be 10 times mr o and world record holder of mr o title,, strength has NOTHING to do with bodybuild,, all the pussy lifters notice how they develp nice ,, they play around and cut lean and large,, its all in the drug ,, ofcourse you need strength ....but naturals can have amazing TENDOIN STRENGTH ,, when i was natural i worked triceps with 1 dumbel over head 2 arms ...i used to do it with 140 lb dumbel ...NATURAL! 10 TIMES  3 sets... did it give me 18 19 20 inch arm incondition? HELL FUCKING NO IT DIDNT,, my tendoins were super strong though and my bonesss...kind of like matt c...basicaly a joke but lift heavy,,well matt c is on hormones was is play around with them ,, i was truly natural those days,, but still all my strength did was put me in doubel digit bodyfat and ....made me lift heavy lol


strength has NOTHING to do with the final product you see today on stages


gh15 approved

 ::) Number 1 liar right here
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: A Professional on February 15, 2012, 03:28:05 PM
Gh15 can you show a scan of your pro card?
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Cutlet767 on February 15, 2012, 03:43:22 PM
what dorian sell is a protien powder,, he make his livign out of lies like any bodybuild,, the only reason im honest with you is that i dont talk on my real name


gh15 approved

lol, I can't believe you actually just said that. HahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

So what do you say when the kids ask you in the gym what you are on?
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: A Professional on February 15, 2012, 03:45:15 PM
Gh15 Silence the filt that say you're not a real pro and just a drug dealer and show a scan of your pro card!!!!
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: NineGeez on February 15, 2012, 03:47:19 PM
Gh15 Silence the filt that say you're not a real pro and just a drug dealer and show a scan of your pro card!!!!

he cant do that

because

he is a drug dealer / not a pro
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: chaos on February 15, 2012, 04:50:53 PM
just take a look into mat c....he is porobably strongest getbiger,, probably he is the ones,,

gh15 approved
No.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 15, 2012, 05:32:36 PM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved

I'm still waiting for an explanation for this.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: supernick on February 15, 2012, 05:40:02 PM
::) Number 1 liar right here
how is it a lie?? how do u know fool ???
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 15, 2012, 05:44:11 PM
how is it a lie?? how do u know fool ???

In the case my statement I don't think he's lying once again I think he's misinformed.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: tlc on February 15, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
I'm still waiting for an explanation for this.

Nature favours efficiency would be one answer. A shorter muscle attached to a longer tendon that extends just a few mm further past the joint's leverage point can exert as much force as a larger muscle/shorter tendon, but is energetically far less costly to maintain.

Or so I tell myself, with my crap biceps - I'm NOT inferior, I'm just more highly evolved! Dammit.  >:(
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Psyckle on February 15, 2012, 08:30:36 PM
I'm still waiting for an explanation for this.

It's because people with stronger tendons train like or are powerlifters and are more concerned about moving the weight from point a to point b.  Because of this, they tend not to care about isolating the muscle/mind to muscle connection.  They will do whatever in order to move the weight and not really concerned about what muscles are being stimulated.  As a result, the tendons take alot of the brunt and become stronger.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 01:13:05 AM
lol, I can't believe you actually just said that. HahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

So what do you say when the kids ask you in the gym what you are on?

hard work and dedication


chickn and brokli fella


protien powdrez and creatinos
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: aesthetics on February 16, 2012, 01:22:58 AM
size and strength go together when you're talking about real muscle, "mature muscle" but when you're talking about philsulina size then no, but that is what comprises most of the size bodybuilders have.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 01:29:46 AM
size and strength go together when you're talking about real muscle, "mature muscle" but when you're talking about philsulina size then no, but that is what comprises most of the size bodybuilders have.

so their muscles blow up but there is no functional increase of contractile units?
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Super Natural on February 16, 2012, 02:08:32 AM
Strongest guy I ever saw also was the fattest.  Remember him?  Anthony Clark.  Guy was a beast, but round and fat.

(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/aclark.jpg)

PIP
I shook his hand at the 2000 Mr olympia. It was was like shaking hands with a hot water bottle about to burst  :o
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Karpaasi on February 16, 2012, 03:15:38 AM

How much can naturals bench press? (touch and go, hardly anyone pauses them)

How about we put this way.

10x135 - your avarage gym guy
10x185 - better than average
10x225 - advanced. Good lift.
10x275 - impressive!

10x315 - I don't think this is worth mentinion for. Let's say it's rare.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Krankenstein on February 16, 2012, 05:19:55 AM
van b----------------------------------------------------------------> is right there,, i just say hands on from many many years of experience i probably can get you techinical answer liek you love but too much effort to go look for it ,, or to even think about it right now when i about to go train chest
maybe later ,, van b can come here and explain or maybe even you can ,, or...few others will do it gladly for you my love

gh15 approved

Translation : I dont know whatthe fuck I am talking about.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: doriancutlerman on February 16, 2012, 05:46:11 AM
just take a look into mat c....he is porobably strongest getbiger,, probably he is the ones,, yes he did hormones but still horible muscle shape well not horible but lacking and stiff looking and yet EXTREMLY STRONG

?

For such a thinly-built guy, sure, but strongest getbigger?  Not even close, boss.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: dj181 on February 16, 2012, 07:12:04 AM
PIP
I shook his hand at the 2000 Mr olympia. It was was like shaking hands with a hot water bottle about to burst  :o

he claims to have been 8% bodyfat, and his bench was a touch and go affair without a lockout
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: 1stkeepitreal on February 16, 2012, 08:12:58 AM
he cant do that

because

he is a drug dealer / not a pro

X many!

In addition Ron needs to ban god of homos forever for using this board to sell his products and promoting a life of steroids, GH and insulin to the youth of the membership.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: bigdelts on February 16, 2012, 08:23:56 AM
size and strength go together when you're talking about real muscle, "mature muscle" but when you're talking about philsulina size then no, but that is what comprises most of the size bodybuilders have.

Real muscle that you said, is the myofribilar hypetrophy that build new actin/myosin and then you gain strength and muscle size...
You can have this with low rep lifting

Philinsulina is more sarcoplasmatic hypertrophy increase the number of mitochondria,put fluid into the muscle


Baah this theory about tendons and bones,i want to know to the reason of muscle size means weak tendons and strong tendons means weak muscle size...
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Darren Avey on February 16, 2012, 08:25:33 AM
If I had some strength facts it would be easier to spot juicers and fake naturals in the gym, since I suck at sizeing up height, weight, arm girth...


Counting weights is easier


How much can naturals bench press? (touch and go, hardly anyone pauses them)


let's just do bench press since squat is too hard to say with different styles....


and everyone trains bench press...



Depends on the individual you daty girl!!
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Man of Steel on February 16, 2012, 08:49:35 AM
Strength is all training, size is all drugs.

That's it fellas, gh15 is right on this one.

In other words, strength is all heart and bb muscles are all crap.
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: StanZoLOL on February 16, 2012, 08:53:08 AM
Strength is all training, size is all drugs.

Then following that logic, a natural should be able to set 100m world record, raw bench world record, etc. ;)
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Man of Steel on February 16, 2012, 08:56:45 AM
Then following that logic, a natural should be able to set 100m world record, raw bench world record, etc. ;)

It's not impossible.  Attaining lean, muscular size like that of bb isn't possible without drugs, but yes some strength gains do occur on gear.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: StanZoLOL on February 16, 2012, 08:59:24 AM
It's not impossible.  Attaining lean, muscular size like that of bb isn't possible without drugs.

I agree on the BB size, but if it were possible there would be naturals benchin 650-700 in line with the top level drug guys. There aren't.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Man of Steel on February 16, 2012, 09:03:00 AM
I agree on the BB size, but if it were possible there would be naturals benchin 650-700 in line with the top level drug guys. There aren't.

This implies that there aren't any naturals capable of 650-700 bench.  I don't believe that.  At the level of competition you mention you find the same caliber of person....they'll do whatever it takes....gear, coke, cow dung, raw eggs, whatever.   Most naturals don't think in those terms.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: The_Punisher on February 16, 2012, 09:04:20 AM
you'll bench press as much as this moron

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: StanZoLOL on February 16, 2012, 09:15:50 AM
This implies that there aren't any naturals capable of 650-700 bench.  I don't believe that.

Agree to disagree then. lol Then again even if one did 650+ everyone would think he was juiced anyway...
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: mesmorph78 on February 16, 2012, 12:40:07 PM
This board has become a joke
Ron you dropped the ball in regards to moderation
Board is totally over run by one troll and his gimmicks and followers
Complete joke
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Dr Dutch on February 16, 2012, 12:49:58 PM
(http://www.geekologie.com/2010/07/22/wtf-beer-1.jpg)
hahahaha wow this is cool.....I only got a stuffed hawk that killed itself crahing into my window...
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: aesthetics on February 16, 2012, 01:03:21 PM
hahahaha wow this is cool.....I only got a stuffed hawk that killed itself crahing into my window...

paint your windows opaque otherwise the wildlife commission will fine you for killing endangered species  :D
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: Dr Dutch on February 16, 2012, 01:07:07 PM
paint your windows opaque otherwise the wildlife commission will fine you for killing endangered species  :D
I still got 2 birds and a mole in my freezer. It's just too damn expensive to have them stuffed... ;D

And I needed a form from the local polie station to have the hawk stuffed by some registrated guy...this is Holland. ;D
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: JOCKTHEGLIDE on February 16, 2012, 01:19:51 PM
what was your weight when you were natural GH15??..

I come in,,,,170lbs,,,natural before I touch hormones,,,,very strong very very,,,,no hormones did not touch till I was 18,,,


gh15 approved
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: gh15 on February 16, 2012, 01:22:28 PM
In other words, strength is all heart and bb muscles are all crap.

very good! and corect!

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: cephissus on February 16, 2012, 01:32:14 PM
How about we put this way.

10x135 - your avarage gym guy
10x185 - better than average
10x225 - advanced. Good lift.
10x275 - impressive!

10x315 - I don't think this is worth mentinion for. Let's say it's rare.

I think this is a good answer

i got 265 x 8 as my best, or 300 x 3 (not sure which is better).  Probably could have done more if I hadn't been so stupid and had such bad technique.  It was my dream to do 275 x 10, and i fucked myself up JUST as I was about to get it  :'(
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 02:58:13 PM
In other words, strength is all heart and bb muscles are all crap.

well i have a lot of heart, does this mean i can get strong with no drugs
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: gh15 on February 16, 2012, 03:14:38 PM
well i have a lot of heart, does this mean i can get strong with no drugs

yes you can get very strong with no drugs aka treuly natural ,, you just going to look stiff,, stiff! but one strong mother fuckerf lol


gh15 approved
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 03:22:44 PM
yes you can get very strong with no drugs aka treuly natural ,, you just going to look stiff,, stiff! but one strong mother fuckerf lol


gh15 approved

fantastic

ronnie coleman said "keep the faith and accept your calling"


this might be it


Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 03:51:16 PM
I am 100% for a fact no people have benched 500 natural I have seen many 450 benching naturals steroid free. Steroids dont give that great a perfromance boost as many think 20% maybe. 600lb bencher would be 400-500 benchers with no juice
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 03:52:42 PM
I am 100% for a fact no people have benched 500 natural I have seen many 450 benching naturals steroid free. Steroids dont give that great a perfromance boost as many think 20% maybe. 600lb bencher would be 400-500 benchers with no juice

so are you saying scot mendelson could have benched 572 naturally?

since he did bench 715 raw non drug tested.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 16, 2012, 03:59:41 PM
Steroids I think add about 30% strength POTENTIALLY
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 04:02:16 PM
Steroids I think add about 30% strength POTENTIALLY

this would put scot mendelson in 500lbs natural bench range
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 16, 2012, 04:14:59 PM
Yea but a superfat strong natural could possible get a bit more.

When I was younger I thought i would bench 500 naturally one day.

I am not built for it and never will.

I would like to thing I could hit 450.

There are guys about 90kg, thick and about 5'9 in my gym not a kick in ass of 400lbs wide grip strong bones etc is a massive factor.

I am sure there are shorter, fatter guys with less ROM who with specific training could be incredibly impressive!
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Mawse on February 16, 2012, 10:40:49 PM

regular person, maybe 315 depending on genetics and training

meso-studmuffin natural athlete negra 315-365

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 11:11:49 PM
so are you saying scot mendelson could have benched 572 naturally?

since he did bench 715 raw non drug tested.
I seen fat black guys and bikers do it in the joint there are lots of guys in every big yard that can bench 400+ not bodybuilders and i know steroids I know most of these cases where natural if your willing to get fat you can get fucking strong don't kid yourself. 30% is way to high gear does not add 30% to strength maybe some monster 5gram tren oral cycle I doubt it though. 15-20%  is the general. Scott would be able to bench 500 easy with out gear prolly near 550. I would say 600 is possible in the best genetic case of a near 400lb fat man. where steroids power lies in the ability to let you hold muscle while lean. The average run of the mill white guy bulked to 260-270 could prolly get 400 or close
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 11:15:27 PM
regular person, maybe 315 depending on genetics and training

meso-studmuffin natural athlete negra 315-365


a regular 15% or under a fat person white/black could eat them numbers for dinner I seen a fat guy hit 315 20 fucking times in prison moron guy no diet didn't train legs nothing.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Xerxes on February 16, 2012, 11:18:14 PM
What do you think this guy is on  ???

He is obviously tested very often because of competition sooo is it possible that he's natural?
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 11:19:02 PM
What do you think this guy is on  ???

He is obviously tested very often because of competition sooo is it possible that he's natural?
no he's not natual but he is lean he could be just as strong fat and natural. He is on test base ,tren base prolly and orals
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 11:19:30 PM
I seen fat black guys and bikers do it in the joint there are lots of guys in every big yard that can bench 400+ not bodybuilders and i know steroids I know most of these cases where natural if your willing to get fat you can get fucking strong don't kid yourself. 30% is way to high gear does not add 30% to strength maybe some monster 5gram tren oral cycle I doubt it though. 15-20%  is the general. Scott would be able to bench 500 easy with out gear prolly near 550. I would say 600 is possible in the best genetic case of a near 400lb fat man. where steroids power lies in the ability to let you hold muscle while lean. The average run of the mill white guy bulked to 260-270 could prolly get 400 or close

that's one hell of a price to pay

so in your observation in these prisons, how much could the strongest non fat guys bench? 315?
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 11:22:24 PM
What do you think this guy is on  ???

He is obviously tested very often because of competition sooo is it possible that he's natural?
i think a good way of getting an idea what these guys are on is to check the banned substances they get busted for all the time



can only recall some females got caught with stanozolol dont know what the men usually get caught with
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 11:25:53 PM
that's one hell of a price to pay

so in your observation in these prisons, how much could the strongest non fat guys bench? 315?
black guys sometimes get near 400 at 10% bf or so white guys maybe 350 -360 some what lean. That not completely a good guide though there are more young blacks in prison so they have an advantage in that they have a better genetic pool to work with. Whites are there for  crimes you don't have to be ass tough for also. You better be a pretty bad ass if your selling crack in your projects or you will get ran over. I you had a more even number of young whites I would guess it would be a lot closer funny the whites for the most part win the basket ball,softball and blah blah.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 11:28:43 PM
500 deadlift is common in guys all sizes and leaness not that rare in prison.  A lot of guys can deadlift 500.  Squat are  not quite as popular .  Prisoners love deadlifts. Powerlifting usa is very popular most old timers have cam to the concusion powerlifting is much better then bodybuilding without diet and steroids which is 100% correct they know about 20 rep squats all that shit. Bugarian system ,smyslov westside
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 16, 2012, 11:32:16 PM
500 deadlift is common in guys all sizes and leaness not that rare in prison.  A lot of guys can deadlift 500.  Squat are  not quite as popular .  Prisoners love deadlifts.

yeah 500 deadlift is pretty "easy" as in i can do that

it's the bench press the most challenging lift of all in myself and the people i have trained with over the years
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 16, 2012, 11:34:09 PM
yeah 500 deadlift is pretty "easy" as in i can do that

it's the bench press the most challenging lift of all in myself and the people i have trained with over the years
bill kazmier came and visited us anthony clark all kinds of people. I didnt know that good who bill kazmier was then so like and idoit I didnt pay much attention lol I did talk to anthony clark and he benched 500 a few times for us and stuff. Think ed coan goes to. Im so stupid i was right there with bill kazmier and could have gave a fuck less lol Old time wresters go a like arn anderson and people like that
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on February 17, 2012, 01:42:37 PM
What do you think this guy is on  ???

He is obviously tested very often because of competition sooo is it possible that he's natural?

epic early arm bend
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: supernick on February 17, 2012, 04:47:49 PM
got a fiend thats totally natural and he can bench 315 for 9
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: StanZoLOL on February 17, 2012, 04:52:28 PM
got a fiend thats totally natural and he can bench 315 for 9

I know some strong naturals too, but at the same time with the superdrols, hdrols etc being so available you never really know who's natty these days.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: supernick on February 17, 2012, 04:54:28 PM
I know some strong naturals too, but at the same time with the superdrols, hdrols etc being so available you never really know who's natty these days.
true but i know this guy he wouldnt lie to me. hes not fat either
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 17, 2012, 04:55:59 PM
got a fiend thats totally natural and he can bench 315 for 9
it can be done im 100% sure and surpassed it would be hard at sub 10% bf which a bodybuilder should be
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 17, 2012, 05:44:18 PM
got a fiend thats totally natural and he can bench 315 for 9

what does a guy like that look like?

short/tall?

fat/lean?

bodyweight estimation?

body proportions?

wrist girth?


just wondring
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 17, 2012, 06:01:31 PM
this about what your natural 400 bencher would look like not suggesting bruno or larry are natural or can even bench 400 I don't know nor do I care.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 17, 2012, 06:33:01 PM
Not necessarily that fat
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: jr on February 17, 2012, 06:35:16 PM
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss308/RugbyDad/Strength/4323517556_f5ca71d74d.jpg)
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 17, 2012, 06:45:02 PM
Kaz, Pudz, Savikas??? Well all these men even though strong have enhanced strength and we all know who that means. In my opinion looking at all the strongest man competitors over 33 years the only one not enhanced is Greg Ernst. This man is just a strong farmer whom has lifted 500 pound rocks and some great lifts!

Squat - 750 pounds (340 kg)
 Deadlift - 800 pounds (360 kg)
 Bench Press - 510 pounds (230 kg)
Backlifted over two tons (app. 5,340 lbs.)
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: supernick on February 17, 2012, 07:13:03 PM
what does a guy like that look like?

short/tall?

fat/lean?

bodyweight estimation?

body proportions?

wrist girth?


just wondring
hes 5-10
prob 14% give or take
about 200lbs
huge chest & big tris everything else lagging
some reason he has small wrists and hands
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: jude2 on February 17, 2012, 09:35:21 PM
strong bones...usualy mean weak muscle...USUALY! strong tendoins...usualy mean shit muscle,, you will learn it in the future,, the smallest fellas on the olympics that do powerlift and lift enormous weight...notice how flat their muslcles look....they are stiff looking,, strong like mother fuckers,, its something to be proud of ...but bodybuild is pageon of narcisitc outmost proportions ,, it has nothnig to do with fucking strength

strong bodybuild is very good...but you can get very far in bodybuikld with lifting as much weight as you want,, infact you can develp best pecs in cult by only doing hammers

this is the gh15 era of bodybuild,, notice how everyone train the way i say ,, just check into kuklo the kid ,, many others,,

bodybuild has NOTHING to do with strength ,, do i like it? no,, but this is the pure facts now days

gh15 approved
You describe Rhino here, very strong tendons.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: nzmusclemonster on February 17, 2012, 10:54:17 PM
My best effort with 315

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: jakesonyou on February 17, 2012, 10:59:35 PM
very very rarely can any natural bodybuilder press anything higher than mid 300s.  This is at a HEALTHY weight. A low bodyfat I am talking here. Not some fella who is 300 pounds of fat.

basically at a a low bodyfat the max you may see is.

squat - 405lbs range.
deadlift - 500lbs range.
bench - 300lbs range.

the argument can be 3 plates max for a press, 4 for a back squat, and 5 for a deadlift.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: tbombz on February 17, 2012, 11:04:06 PM
My best effort with 315


muscle monster for sure
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: nzmusclemonster on February 17, 2012, 11:06:01 PM
muscle monster for sure

Are there things Tbagz?
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 17, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
muscle monster for sure
that's good strength shit for a bodybuilder or someone trying to bodybuild on basic cycles. Basic cycles 600mg deca and 600 test usually don't get "BODYBUILDERS" much past a 400 bench if that. A gram test will get the average lean man on a bodybuilding progam to near 400 not much more. Want to bench a lot orals are your friend :) I cant use them like I would like because my heavy drinking although my liver test comes back fine I'm a little gun shy.  After hearing wes saying they glen chabot was poppin 400mg what can 40mg hurt huh lol. If you took a 1gram of test that is prolly where you would be in 5-6 months purenatualstrength
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 17, 2012, 11:22:51 PM
I'd say spot on with those numbers. I remember competing in 1992 with 7 years training I did a 276.5 bench for a record, 440 dead and  a 405 squat at a bodyweight of 162 and I was a junior






very very rarely can any natural bodybuilder press anything higher than mid 300s.  This is at a HEALTHY weight. A low bodyfat I am talking here. Not some fella who is 300 pounds of fat.

basically at a a low bodyfat the max you may see is.

squat - 405lbs range.
deadlift - 500lbs range.
bench - 300lbs range.

the argument can be 3 plates max for a press, 4 for a back squat, and 5 for a deadlift.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 18, 2012, 03:35:33 AM
My best effort with 315



impressive! natural? this is my dream, bench 3 plates for like 5 reps

how long did you train to achieve this
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 18, 2012, 03:40:55 AM
I'd say spot on with those numbers. I remember competing in 1992 with 7 years training I did a 276.5 bench for a record, 440 dead and  a 405 squat at a bodyweight of 162 and I was a junior








the squat numbers are too low, but i'm not sure how much too low, maybe 10-15%

most people achieve 405 squat 495 deadlift without too much difficulty


the bench is where the challenge lies
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: dj181 on February 18, 2012, 05:51:58 AM
very very rarely can any natural bodybuilder press anything higher than mid 300s.  This is at a HEALTHY weight. A low bodyfat I am talking here. Not some fella who is 300 pounds of fat.

basically at a a low bodyfat the max you may see is.

squat - 405lbs range.
deadlift - 500lbs range.
bench - 300lbs range.

the argument can be 3 plates max for a press, 4 for a back squat, and 5 for a deadlift.

decent post, and pretty much spot on
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on February 18, 2012, 06:33:48 AM
Spot on my ass lol.  :D
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: dj181 on February 18, 2012, 06:43:22 AM
so you think lifetime natties can do better?
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on February 18, 2012, 06:51:38 AM
Ofcourse.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: mesmorph78 on February 18, 2012, 07:03:11 AM
very very rarely can any natural bodybuilder press anything higher than mid 300s.  This is at a HEALTHY weight. A low bodyfat I am talking here. Not some fella who is 300 pounds of fat.

basically at a a low bodyfat the max you may see is.

squat - 405lbs range.
deadlift - 500lbs range.
bench - 300lbs range.

the argument can be 3 plates max for a press, 4 for a back squat, and 5 for a deadlift.

So your speaking for 6 billion people on earth
I just love when you guys come out with horseshit like this
 :-\
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 18, 2012, 07:09:20 AM
very very rarely can any natural bodybuilder press anything higher than mid 300s.  This is at a HEALTHY weight. A low bodyfat I am talking here. Not some fella who is 300 pounds of fat.

basically at a a low bodyfat the max you may see is.

squat - 405lbs range.
deadlift - 500lbs range.
bench - 300lbs range.

the argument can be 3 plates max for a press, 4 for a back squat, and 5 for a deadlift.

There are 3 guys in my gym all about 87kg and 5'9 who can press about 350-380

Depending on body shape etc the squat and deadlift can be much higher but generally no one has 3 great lifts at sub 90kg and natural
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 18, 2012, 07:11:50 AM
The guy on teh left of the screen spotting also can bench about 160-165kg at mid 80's bw

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: mesmorph78 on February 18, 2012, 07:30:18 AM
The guy on teh left of the screen spotting also can bench about 160-165kg at mid 80's bw



good press....
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 18, 2012, 07:31:55 AM
Uneven but lighten it 5kg and form is better. I gues it is because it is pretty much his max
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 18, 2012, 08:39:22 AM
True because the numbers for the guy I competed against had only a 225 bench but hat a 502 dead and a 435 squat. Again we competed at 162 lbs.






the squat numbers are too low, but i'm not sure how much too low, maybe 10-15%

most people achieve 405 squat 495 deadlift without too much difficulty


the bench is where the challenge lies
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 18, 2012, 08:41:31 AM
True because the numbers for the guy I competed against had only a 225 bench but hat a 502 dead and a 435 squat.






because legs have a lot more motor units than arms so the harder you try the more force you can generate

no i'm just randomly saying things i dont know why
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 18, 2012, 08:44:17 AM
Well then we get into joint size. Mine are very small, 7inch wrist, 12.5inch knee. So many factors!!

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 18, 2012, 08:45:14 AM
Well then we get into joint size. Mine are very small, 7inch wrist, 12.5inch knee. So many factors!!


7" wrist is medium

6" small

8" big


just like cocks
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 18, 2012, 08:46:55 AM
Haha true. I can't hit bottom but I sure give the sides hell   ;D


7" wrist is medium

6" small

8" big


just like cocks
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 18, 2012, 08:47:58 AM
Haha true. I can't hit bottom but I sure give the sides hell   ;D



yeah i'm not sure what small, medium, and big length would be

girth is most important
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: nzmusclemonster on February 18, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
good press....


Fool  ::)

Terrible form. Would have been 3 reds in comp.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: nzmusclemonster on February 18, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
impressive! natural? this is my dream, bench 3 plates for like 5 reps

how long did you train to achieve this

Yep, lifetime natty - despite what some people on here say.

Been training on and off 10 years. This was when I focussed on improving my bench for about 6 months. Did a lot of heavy shoulder work. Heavy military presses were the key. Plus a lot of heavy tricep work. Benching twice a week. One heavy, one in the 20 - 30 rep range per set.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: mesmorph78 on February 18, 2012, 02:07:34 PM
nothing worse than someone who tries their best to get a response from you
and you just keep ignoring there existence...
... because well .. there just not in the same class
 :-\
nyway

goudy /ursus was that video at your gym
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: gh15 on February 18, 2012, 03:23:28 PM
The guy on teh left of the screen spotting also can bench about 160-165kg at mid 80's bw



this is what i talk about ,, strongest bones and tendoins ,, almost no lean muscle,, this is exactly the look ,, if you ar efella who look lik ehtis fella ...go and do powerlift you will get far!

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: StanZoLOL on February 18, 2012, 03:25:59 PM
Yep, lifetime natty - despite what some people on here say.

Been training on and off 10 years. This was when I focussed on improving my bench for about 6 months. Did a lot of heavy shoulder work. Heavy military presses were the key. Plus a lot of heavy tricep work. Benching twice a week. One heavy, one in the 20 - 30 rep range per set.

I made my best pressing gains doing something similar. For a lot of lifts the typical BB routine, hit the lift once a week isn't best. Try improving pullups just doing them once a week. lol
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on February 18, 2012, 03:31:53 PM
135
hopes this helps
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: che on February 18, 2012, 07:08:12 PM
I'd say spot on with those numbers. I remember competing in 1992 with 7 years training I did a 276.5 bench for a record, 440 dead and  a 405 squat at a bodyweight of 162 and I was a junior



 ::)
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chaos on February 18, 2012, 07:10:23 PM
Wait....if Penis Polisher did those #'s in '92 w/7 years of training.......and he claims to be 27.........that would mean he did those numbers at birth!!!!!!!!! ??? :o

Impressive. :D
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: che on February 18, 2012, 07:11:09 PM
Wait....if Penis Polisher did those #'s in '92 w/7 years of training.......and he claims to be 27.........that would mean he did those numbers at birth!!!!!!!!! ??? :o

Impressive. :D

 ;D
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 18, 2012, 07:11:58 PM
this is what i talk about ,, strongest bones and tendoins ,, almost no lean muscle,, this is exactly the look ,, if you ar efella who look lik ehtis fella ...go and do powerlift you will get far!

gh15 approved

I agree he is not muscular at all.

Obviously with his top off he would look trained but ina  baggy t shirt or even a normal t shirt you would never know he lifted
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 18, 2012, 07:12:32 PM
nothing worse than someone who tries their best to get a response from you
and you just keep ignoring there existence...
... because well .. there just not in the same class
 :-\
nyway

goudy /ursus was that video at your gym

Yea that is my gym.

Why you ask?
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Nomad on February 18, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
The guy on teh left of the screen spotting also can bench about 160-165kg at mid 80's bw



nice lift but why the faggy arch?  Ruins the lift.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: jr on February 18, 2012, 07:27:48 PM
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 18, 2012, 08:06:49 PM
You dont read well. Your combining two different events, the post was in 92 with seven years of training, I was 22. The pic was at 27. I'am now 42, how you managed to screw things up must be an inditement of the American educational system.

Wait....if Penis Polisher did those #'s in '92 w/7 years of training.......and he claims to be 27.........that would mean he did those numbers at birth!!!!!!!!! ??? :o

Impressive. :D
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chaos on February 18, 2012, 08:13:39 PM
You dont read well. Your combining two different events, the post was in 92 with seven years of training, I was 22. The pic was at 27. I'am now 42, how you managed to screw things up must be an inditement of the American educational system.

Where in this post about that picture did you ever indicate it was not a current pic? In fact you claim to not be an old man and only 27.

Must be some kind of Pollok math going on over there. :-\

Spin spin spin old man....the lies are breaking down Mr "I do rows with the 200#db's".


Not an old man Chaos, 27 here.  And for the shirts and dont like looking like a homo in those tankini's
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Polish Power on February 18, 2012, 08:18:22 PM
I know we all pick on eachother here but why is it so hard to believe I do 200lb 1 arm rows, 80lb side laterals, kickbacks with 80lbs, 160lb incline db press, 150lb db shoulder press


Where in this post about that picture did you ever indicate it was not a current pic? In fact you claim to not be an old man and only 27.

Must be some kind of Pollok math going on over there. :-\

Spin spin spin old man....the lies are breaking down Mr "I do rows with the 200#db's".


Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chaos on February 18, 2012, 08:19:18 PM
I know we all pick on eachother here but why is it so hard to believe I do 200lb 1 arm rows, 80lb side laterals, kickbacks with 80lbs, 160lb incline db press, 150lb db shoulder press


Sure you do stud, and you have topless supermodels as spotters too right? ::)
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: randy841 on February 19, 2012, 12:22:04 AM
Strength is all training, size is all drugs.

That's it fellas, gh15 is right on this one.

What a bunch of crock.

We can all pretend to play it which ever way - that big tendons means small muscles. Big muscles equal small/weak tendons.

Strength = all drugs

BB Size = all drugs


Most of us who have ever been around powerlifting competitions know this from close friends and general observations. Powerlifting falls in the same realm as bodybuilding size -- all drugs.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: randy841 on February 19, 2012, 12:28:00 AM
i think a good way of getting an idea what these guys are on is to check the banned substances they get busted for all the time



can only recall some females got caught with stanozolol dont know what the men usually get caught with

nandrolone (Deca durabolin)
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: randy841 on February 19, 2012, 12:53:51 AM
I know some strong naturals too, but at the same time with the superdrols, hdrols etc being so available you never really know who's natty these days.

Everyone likes to kid themselves with "natural" this and "natural" that. And PRETENDING to know things for a fact.

There are limitations. Human strength is not infinite. Once you cross a certain # - the lies have already begun.

How about the cycle one did 1 year ago, 2 years ago, or 5 years ago?
That one cycle that took one over their natural limitation forever. And since then, they have never looked back. Once someone has crossed the limit - no one's going to give you a Oprah like confession - more like Jerry Springer like pep talk -- when push comes to shove on their naturalness. Everybody likes to lie to themselves and others - make believe of sorts, that this is what they are really doing ... naturally. In fact, humans thrive on lies and deceit to make themselves something they are not. Basically a Pat Banana conundrum.


Yes, pro-hormones are steroids too. The 'liars and filth', need NOT apply and try to defend themselves, because they think that somehow they categorically fall into the realm of the "natural" defense.


Anybody who thinks they know FOR A FACT their friend(s) is "natural", and doing this or that doesn't know their left foot from right foot.  

Are your there 24/7/365. NO!

Nobody knows as a fact of matter & NO ONE will tell you - And that includes your (best) friends.

It's a dog eat dog world!
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chess315 on February 19, 2012, 12:58:54 AM
I totally disagree strenght is not the same as bodybuilding when it come to drugs bodybuilding equals all muscle no other factor. Powerlifting has a lot  to do with out right will/nervous system leverages,tendons and a lot more then muscle. People underestimate how much one can improve ones strength strictly by improving technique also. I agree to be the best or close in powerlifting u need drugs but you can get closer naturlly then in bodybuilding.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: HEAVYLIFT on February 19, 2012, 09:13:55 AM
Everyone likes to kid themselves with "natural" this and "natural" that. And PRETENDING to know things for a fact.

There are limitations. Human strength is not infinite. Once you cross a certain # - the lies have already begun.

How about the cycle one did 1 year ago, 2 years ago, or 5 years ago?
That one cycle that took one over their natural limitation forever. And since then, they have never looked back. Once someone has crossed the limit - no one's going to give you a Oprah like confession - more like Jerry Springer like pep talk -- when push comes to shove on their naturalness. Everybody likes to lie to themselves and others - make believe of sorts, that this is what they are really doing ... naturally. In fact, humans thrive on lies and deceit to make themselves something they are not. Basically a Pat Banana conundrum.


Yes, pro-hormones are steroids too. The 'liars and filth', need NOT apply and try to defend themselves, because they think that somehow they categorically fall into the realm of the "natural" defense.


Anybody who thinks they know FOR A FACT their friend(s) is "natural", and doing this or that doesn't know their left foot from right foot.  

Are your there 24/7/365. NO!

Nobody knows as a fact of matter & NO ONE will tell you - And that includes your (best) friends.

It's a dog eat dog world!

I agree 100%, been saying this for a long time
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: aesthetics on February 19, 2012, 09:31:09 AM
Everyone likes to kid themselves with "natural" this and "natural" that. And PRETENDING to know things for a fact.

There are limitations. Human strength is not infinite. Once you cross a certain # - the lies have already begun.

How about the cycle one did 1 year ago, 2 years ago, or 5 years ago?
That one cycle that took one over their natural limitation forever. And since then, they have never looked back. Once someone has crossed the limit - no one's going to give you a Oprah like confession - more like Jerry Springer like pep talk -- when push comes to shove on their naturalness. Everybody likes to lie to themselves and others - make believe of sorts, that this is what they are really doing ... naturally. In fact, humans thrive on lies and deceit to make themselves something they are not. Basically a Pat Banana conundrum.


Yes, pro-hormones are steroids too. The 'liars and filth', need NOT apply and try to defend themselves, because they think that somehow they categorically fall into the realm of the "natural" defense.


Anybody who thinks they know FOR A FACT their friend(s) is "natural", and doing this or that doesn't know their left foot from right foot.  

Are your there 24/7/365. NO!

Nobody knows as a fact of matter & NO ONE will tell you - And that includes your (best) friends.

It's a dog eat dog world!

i tell all my friends, most of them don't weightlift or if they do it's like benching 120 pounds for 4 reps (yes some guys can't even max out at 150 pounds).  

i don't know why anyone cares in the slightest, the only apprehension i have is telling strangers since it's illegal and also my mother just because my mother is one of those mothers.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Ursus on February 19, 2012, 09:42:14 AM
Leverage and proportions play a huge part in strength. ie. moving weight over distance

Size is all drugs
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: gh15 on February 19, 2012, 09:56:05 AM
condition while keeping size... is all drugs too lol


everything is all drugs,, this is why we are NOT  sport lol ,,its not little drugs,, our sport is evolved AROUND drugs
gh15 approved
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: doriancutlerman on February 19, 2012, 01:58:08 PM
condition while keeping size... is all drugs too lol


everything is all drugs,, this is why we are NOT  sport lol ,,its not little drugs,, our sport is evolved AROUND drugs
gh15 approved

Wouldn't you say the same's almost as applicable to powerlifting too, though?  Especially the non-tested but raw stuff.  Periodization was predicated on guys coming off drugs or cutting doses back when the Basile types would all get together and pow-wow about whether it'd be safe to go from 2 CIBA Dianabols to 3/day.

That's sarcasm, btw ;)  But in all seriousness, superheavy powerlifters give sweet-fuck-all about condition, the gH "3D look" and any semblance of balanced development, but the PLers I've known had the same kind of "either train 'on' or don't fucking bother" mentality.  Imagine some guy like Louie Simmons training without AAS.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on February 19, 2012, 06:34:54 PM
i tell all my friends, most of them don't weightlift or if they do it's like benching 120 pounds for 4 reps (yes some guys can't even max out at 150 pounds).  

i don't know why anyone cares in the slightest, the only apprehension i have is telling strangers since it's illegal and also my mother just because my mother is one of those mothers.

x2
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on February 20, 2012, 05:45:46 AM
i am a life time natural and today i bench pressed 150 kg for one easy rep (BW 79-80 kg).. will try 155 kg next time.. i did it few years ago but was 3-4 kg heavier than now!!..
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 20, 2012, 05:47:10 AM
i am a life time natural and today i bench pressed 150 kg for one easy rep (BW 79-80 kg).. will try 155 kg next time.. i did it few years ago but was 3-4 kg heavier than now!!..

my old coach who was a very bitter and angry natural did 150kg with pause and 155kg without pause, he was tall with long arms so i guess someone with better leverages can go more
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Per Se on February 20, 2012, 06:44:06 AM
My friend is between 5'8"-5'9", and weighs 245.  Approx 20-24% bf.
Benches 180kg for 5-6 reps.
Lifetime natural.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on February 20, 2012, 11:23:12 AM
my old coach who was a very bitter and angry natural did 150kg with pause and 155kg without pause, he was tall with long arms so i guess someone with better leverages can go more


yes sure there are many naturals who are stronger than me and than your tall old coach.. i was just talking about what i did :P
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 20, 2012, 11:24:31 AM
yes sure there are many naturals who are stronger than me and than your tall old coach.. i was just talking about what i did :P
of course i was just comparing you to an exactly similar number guy

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Dr Dutch on February 20, 2012, 11:26:59 AM
my old coach who was a very bitter and angry natural did 150kg with pause and 155kg without pause, he was tall with long arms so i guess someone with better leverages can go more

haha this is hilarious.....can you elaborate, PNS ?
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on February 20, 2012, 11:29:28 AM
also the form (technique) plays a very important role when you do one heavy rep of bench press.. my training partner is noticeably stronger than me in nearly all press exercises (shoulders and chest) except the flat bench press,.. i lift a little heavier than him when we do one rep or few reps with the max. weight.. here is he spotting me in one heavy set 8)

Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: disco_stu on February 20, 2012, 11:32:02 AM
strenght is more to do with tendoins and bones than actual muscle,, you will learn it ,,


gh15 approved

yes it does...but that is purely genetics.

for every individual though, the more muscle they have, the stronger they are.

thats the correlation.

there's NEVER been a correlation between different genetic makeups..NEVER.

there's always been a correlation between muscle mass and strength- for each individual.

its a proven FACT, that larger muscle size = greater strength. thats why we lift in the rep ranges we do.

to dumb it down for you gh15...this means you cannot compare muscle mass of people with different genetic predisposition to strength.

in a large enough group you can though, IF you measure each person's strength versus muscle mass and plot it as % increases.

you Sir, are delusional and overly simplistic in your understanding of human physiology...in fact its not just humans, its any mammal and a bunch of non mammals too.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: kimo on February 20, 2012, 11:36:48 AM
600 pound bench natural is very possible and a bit more .
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Dr Dutch on February 20, 2012, 11:41:35 AM
600 pound bench natural is very possible and a bit more .
You must know something I don't..... :-[
Title: Re: Ok, gh15 laid out the natural limits for size... what about strength?
Post by: dj181 on February 20, 2012, 12:05:11 PM
yes it does...but that is purely genetics.

for every individual though, the more muscle they have, the stronger they are.

thats the correlation.

there's NEVER been a correlation between different genetic makeups..NEVER.

there's always been a correlation between muscle mass and strength- for each individual.

its a proven FACT, that larger muscle size = greater strength. thats why we lift in the rep ranges we do.

to dumb it down for you gh15...this means you cannot compare muscle mass of people with different genetic predisposition to strength.

in a large enough group you can though, IF you measure each person's strength versus muscle mass and plot it as % increases.

you Sir, are delusional and overly simplistic in your understanding of human physiology...in fact its not just humans, its any mammal and a bunch of non mammals too.


spot on post

AJ approved
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 20, 2012, 12:15:20 PM
haha this is hilarious.....can you elaborate, PNS ?

just sayin'...he keeps telling stories about back in the day how he knew juicers with huge arms and he was able to out-cheat-curl them ...


and they look really old and bad now....

i keep thinking "yeah that's cool and everything but clearly you are mad you were not swole and strong like them"


too many anecdotes about how he was stronger than them juiced big arm guys etc

as if they cared about strength
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: wes on February 20, 2012, 12:18:42 PM
600 pound bench natural is very possible and a bit more .
Oh yeah.
::)
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: chaos on February 20, 2012, 06:20:49 PM
Oh yeah.
::)
I know one natural that can hit mid-500....in a shirt, good for mid/upper 400's without it. He competes @275#

I also know juicers that rep 455-495 @ 220#

Not sure where all these natural huge bench/squat/deads are taking place.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: jude2 on February 20, 2012, 07:50:37 PM
I know one natural that can hit mid-500....in a shirt, good for mid/upper 400's without it. He competes @275#

I also know juicers that rep 455-495 @ 220#

Not sure where all these natural huge bench/squat/deads are taking place.
Not at the meets I attend.
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: Mawse on February 20, 2012, 07:50:53 PM
I know one natural that can hit mid-500....in a shirt, good for mid/upper 400's without it. He competes @275#

I also know juicers that rep 455-495 @ 220#

Not sure where all these natural huge bench/squat/deads are taking place.

In prison, of course. In 'the yard' everyone who's fat can bench 500+ if they eat enough chitlins and collards

in the last decade in gyms, including PLing gyms I've only ever seen one 500+ raw bench press from a huge fat 'possible' natural, so obviously going to prison makes a huge difference to people's strength.

Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: kimo on February 24, 2012, 06:21:49 AM
kazmaier who did 300 kilos in a t shirt certainly could bench 600 pounds clean . he was a superheavy of course . by clean i mean no steroids . i know a guy who benched 520 pounds back in 1961 at 182 bwt . was he on something dont know . those drugs messed things doug hepburn benched 575 pounds in the fifties also .
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: jude2 on February 24, 2012, 06:06:54 PM
kazmaier who did 300 kilos in a t shirt certainly could bench 600 pounds clean . he was a superheavy of course . by clean i mean no steroids . i know a guy who benched 520 pounds back in 1961 at 182 bwt . was he on something dont know . those drugs messed things doug hepburn benched 575 pounds in the fifties also .
Kazmaier no steroids ;D ;D
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on March 04, 2012, 06:36:41 PM
135

hope this helps
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: kimo on March 06, 2012, 01:05:53 PM
kaz was on steroids too . in my case anabolics made me gain size but not that much strentgh . and i became horny as hell on them . squats play a part here .
Title: Re: How much can a real natural bodybuilder bench press?
Post by: vascsurgeon on March 06, 2012, 02:07:29 PM
225 x 20 reps at 195lbs. Feet up on bench, full reps, hope this helps, also 375 for 1 with 3 second pause.
No bench shirt or wraps or whatever else, T-shirt and shorts.