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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on September 02, 2012, 06:29:05 PM
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1. drugs - Every Mr Olympia since Larry Scott won the first Olympia in 1965, has used various steroids and BB drugs.
It has been as common in hardcore BB, as barbells and protien powder. Despite what the gurus and dealers claim, no amount of drugs can ever turn you into a top pro , if you lack the basic genetic talent. It is not much different then benchpress contests with the new space age bench shirts. EVERY top lifter is going to get a 200-300 lb increase wearing a shirt ( depending on body wt).
It all comes back to YOUR genetic starting point and drive to win shows. I have seen plenty of guys , juiced to the gills look like bloated warthogs and never win anything. Then , I have seen some genetic freaks on little to no drugs look like they could walk in and win a local NPC show with 2-3 weeks of diet. I used moderate amounts of basic steroids from 1984-86 and they helped precontest. I was bummed out to see they were not magic pills that guranteed I would win the contest. If you decide to juice, start out small and take the advice of an experienced older lifter. Stick with proven basic stuff and avoid gimmicks at all times. The reality is you can't compete on the biggest stage without doing the vitamin S.
It may sound crazy, but I think a moderate , basic drug cycle is a LOT better buy then most supplement stacks ( which are gimmicks).
Moderate , careful steroid use is no worse then drinking a few with your buds each weekend in the club.
2. Judging-
I have judged at every amatuer level from the old AAU Mr America to local and regional NPC contests. Despite what you may have heard, 99.9% of all judging has little to do with politics or fixing contests. The judges don't decide to fix a show for or against some guy in the state meet. there just isn't enough at stake to do that and no body is that impotant in a BB contest. Like most I have heard about politics in the pro events, but rarely seen anything we could prove. I can't say from my own experience what goes on with the IFBB judges but I suspect it is similar to my experience. I was never an IFBB pro judge so I can't answer those questions or concerns.
It is the exact opposite of any , neat, well planned conspiracy. At ANY time during the judging you mark down the place of each bodybuilder on stage. The "points" are when the head judge adds up each individual judges placements. There are no extra points for: calfs, certain poses, conditioning, etc.
Picking the overall winner is even more casual. Each judge has a notecard size pc of paper for the overall winner posedown. At any time during the posedown you write down the number of the bodybuilder you think should win plus 2nd and then 3rd in a big close contest.
You hand your pick down to the head judge and he totals up each judges pick, low score wins ( 1st is 1 pt, 2nd is 2 pts , 3rd s 3 pts).
The wt class winners NEVER have their posedown or routines judged as the wt classes are 100% determined during the prejudging.
* The NPC nationals (ONLY) does reserve the right to change places after the prejudging if someone comes back way off for the finals.*
Most judges take pride in making good objective picks but to be honest it is more art then science. It isn't that different from having a bunch of guys decide who is the hottest girl in a bar.
3. supplements vs food - Most basic supplement ( whey pro) are just concentrated food but still can't replace a good diet for making gains. You are a lot better off spending your hard earned $$ on quality lean meats, veggies,grain breads, etc. Supplements are meant to be "in addition" to an already good diet to fill in any gaps. Here is what I think any good BB program should have:
a. thermogenic pre workout with caffiene (or green tea) , I love Hemorage concetrate and 1MR myself.
Take your pick, but thse really help you FEEL like tearing up the wts and staying on your diet.
b. vitamin/mineral pack - not exotic but a must for total nutritional needs.
c. Glucosomine/ Chrondrotin - start young and stay on it for joint health, we all get older haha.
d. whey pro - I prefer the isolate versions as they digest in me better BUT they cost more. A basic scoop in water in a shaker helps keep feeding your muscles without needing to eat a chicken breast every 2-3 hrs. A fruit or veggie like carrots is good to add while drinking it .
e. creatine - proven record to help gains and train harder.
That's it, and avoid gimmick stuff like most of the test boosters.
4. Training - I have tried just about every system out there in my 36 yrs of bodybuilding. It all comes down to a combination of useing some decent hvy wt and ending with a good pump in the muscle worked. For example a good bicep workout would be:
* barbell curls - 3 warm up sets where you pyramid up to a set (or 2 )to failure of 6-10 reps
* preacher curls - 1-2 warm up sets, 2 sets of 8-10 reps
* concentration curls - ( cable or DB) 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps PUMP.
5. drive and motivation -
Genetic freaks like Phil Heath with ideal shape will always be at at/near the top of the pack. But we also have the Branch Warren's doing well. This is becuase bodybuilding has a lot to do with building freakish mucle mass on your frame and deep, ripped cuts. Not every bodybuilder who compete can endure the combination of a rigid diet combined with intense training. In the end, the top bodybuilders really wanted to be champion bodybuilders. They were willing to endure the diet, training and yes even drug regimes to win the big shows. That drive to win can't be fabircated. You either have it, or you don't. No drug, no supplement, no guru can ever give you THAT.
Face it folks, in bodybuilding the rewards are ONLY for a very few at the top . Most of the female BB pros and a fair % of the pro men make very little off bodybuilding shows or supplement contracts. We all know what kind of stuff they do to get by and pay the bills.
Bodybuilding is fun and I would have love to be a pro. BUT, I knew I lacked the basic talent and tunnel vision drive it takes to make it.
Most bodybuilders would a lot better off if they had a career and life OUTSIDE of the gym/supplement/ BB industry. For most of us bodybuilding is great lifestyle that can keep you younger looking and more fit then your peers. My only advice would be to bodybuild on YOUR terms and decide just how much you are willing to give to it.
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The art of fucking women by big Dicked Bob
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im not gonna be negative howard but that was an ok post.or at least a reminder about things.
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im not gonna be negative howard but that was an ok post.or at least a reminder about things.
Yeah I feel it important to remind us all bodybuilding is a lot more mundane and basic then most want to admit.
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Good read. Can you go through the bit where the bodybuilder gets fucked in the ass by a schmoe for some 'vitamin S'?
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Usually I get through the first paragraph of a post this long before I tune out specially when it concerns bidybuilding cause i pretty much done heard it all,yet this one kinda sorta kept my attention ;)
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STOP POSTING what the fuck man
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So you've decided not to make a comeback then?
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I have seen some genetic freaks on little to no drugs look like they could walk in and win a local NPC show with 2-3 weeks of diet.
because they told you so?
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The problem is, drugs CAN turn you into a pro. Maybe not a top pro without genetics, but certainly a pro. Just ask Bigdownhill :'(...
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biggest load of shit i have read in a while you fucking gimmick.
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Face it folks, in bodybuilding the rewards are ONLY for a very few at the top . Most of the female BB pros and a fair % of the pro men make very little off bodybuilding shows or supplement contracts. We all know what kind of stuff they do to get by and pay the bills.
Bodybuilding is fun and I would have love to be a pro. BUT, I knew I lacked the basic talent and tunnel vision drive it takes to make it.
Most bodybuilders would a lot better off if they had a career and life OUTSIDE of the gym/supplement/ BB industry.
For most of us bodybuilding is great lifestyle that can keep you younger looking and more fit then your peers.
My only advice would be to bodybuild on YOUR terms and decide just how much you are willing to give to it.
Awesome, great read. I wish someone with experience in the sport would write one of these directed specifically at the women in the sport, who seem to compromise their health, security, and integrity SO much more than the men, to gain SO much less.
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biggest load of shit i have read in a while you fucking gimmick.
Are you saying drugs didn't make Big DAn hiLL a pro?
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because they told you so?
I got a bud that looked rank a few years back and he didnt touch juice but now hes pretty soft. Their are some dudes that can get pretty jacked without juice but they are limited o how much size they put on. they will look the same for years then usually get softer over time.
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Are you saying drugs didn't make Big DAn hiLL a pro?
drugs and genetics.
i hate all the losers who say it's all drugs, most of the top 10 olympians just have godly genetics of response and staying healthy (liver , cholesterol ect) they all mostly train like shit yet grow. while us mere mortals actually need to train like animals (naturally or by cheating with steroids) be strict with diet and sleep and will be half the size
Ovbiously dan had good response but his body was too weak to resist all the sides.
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drugs and genetics.
i hate all the losers who say it's all drugs, most of the top 10 olympians just have godly genetics of response and staying healthy (liver , cholesterol ect) they all mostly train like shit yet grow. while us mere mortals actually need to train like animals (naturally or by cheating with steroids) be strict with diet and sleep and will be half the size
Ovbiously dan had good response but his body was too weak to resist all the sides.
good response?? he looks like shit
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Sorry, i was thinking of another guy, yes that guy looks terrible, wasn't born to be a bodybuilder, should give up.
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because they told you so?
That, combined with a pinky swear is the standard IFBB testing system
If its good enough for them, its good enough for me
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good post howard,i liked the bench shirt analogy,though i have seen the rare exceptions,where a really awful raw bencher will take to a shirt better than a gifted raw bencher and blow the gifted bencher away,same goes for drugs and bodybuilding,some guys with lousy genetics will react great to a drug cycle and be able to tolerate it better than a genetically superior athlete,this is rare but owning a hardcore gym for over 10 years i have seen it happen.
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Good post Howard! Genetics & good response to gear = top level pro!
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biggest load of shit i have read in a while you fucking gimmick.
Why is it a load of shit?
I wish I had read that post before I ever picked up a Flex or Muscle & Fitness magazine 15-20 years ago - then I would have saved myself a shitload of time, money, and heartache.
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It isn't that different from having a bunch of guys decide who is the hottest girl in a bar.
Of course it is.
If it were down to each judges discretion where he placed someone then we would have winners getting 8th and 9th placings in their overall score.
Judges have to score to a laid down criteria and place competitors accordingly in order to toe the line and fit in with the other judges.(and stay on the expense gravy train)
What do you think would happen to a judge who placed Heath 10th because he thought his arms were too big?
Its a legitimate gripe about his physique isn't it?
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Awesome, great read. I wish someone with experience in the sport would write one of these directed specifically at the women in the sport, who seem to compromise their health, security, and integrity SO much more than the men, to gain SO much less.
Tanks for the positve words.
On the topic of pro BB woman, let me tell one about one that used good judgement.
Dr Mimi Jabalee ( chiropractor) won the NPC nationals in her "backyard" here in Atlanta, back in 2004.
I am pretty sure she never compete as a pro female bodybuilder after that.
She saw the trend and it wasn't about the promotion of hardcore female bodybuilding.
Three yrs ago, I ran into training at the ABW gym northwest of Atalnta.
I told her she still looked in great shape and asked her if she was going to compete as a pro.
Her reply was priceless ; " I had my night. It was great winning the nationals and getting a pro card in front of all my local friends.
But, I had a good career as a chiropractor before that night and my practice is going even better now. "
She smiled, gave me a quick hug and went back to training.
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Usually I get through the first paragraph of a post this long before I tune out specially when it concerns bidybuilding cause i pretty much done heard it all,yet this one kinda sorta kept my attention ;)
Thanks and did anything I wrote, surprise you ...or you disagree with?
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good post howard,i liked the bench shirt analogy,though i have seen the rare exceptions,where a really awful raw bencher will take to a shirt better than a gifted raw bencher and blow the gifted bencher away,same goes for drugs and bodybuilding,some guys with lousy genetics will react great to a drug cycle and be able to tolerate it better than a genetically superior athlete,this is rare but owning a hardcore gym for over 10 years i have seen it happen.
Good point and excellent observations! If everyone gained the exact same with a shirt, the best raw bencher would the best shirt bencher.
Obviously there are going to a small % of bodybuilders that blow up a lot better on certain drugs as well.
It isn't my most area , so I leave the drug specifics to those who have the expertise and experience I lack.
Regardless of the drug response, the bottom line is that you have to be a genetic freak and put a lot of time , energy and effort to go in bodybuilding with no guarentee of return $$.
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Why is it a load of shit?
I wish I had read that post before I ever picked up a Flex or Muscle & Fitness magazine 15-20 years ago - then I would have saved myself a shitload of time, money, and heartache.
Thanks and that is my hope when I posted it.
Maybe just one or two younger guys will read it and take a sensible path in bodybuilding.
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Of course it is.
If it were down to each judges discretion where he placed someone then we would have winners getting 8th and 9th placings in their overall score.
Judges have to score to a laid down criteria and place competitors accordingly in order to toe the line and fit in with the other judges.(and stay on the expense gravy train)
What do you think would happen to a judge who placed Heath 10th because he thought his arms were too big?
Its a legitimate gripe about his physique isn't it?
Ok since you brought it up let me explain a bit more about the real judging criteria used.
It is based more of accepted norms and ideals then the actual rule book.
Having bigger arms is almost always a great thing so long as the guy is developed well in the legs , like Heath.
BUT, it is a lot more casual and based on the current ideal look then most will admit.
For example, what look wins today was not what won 40 yrs ago.
Zane was a 3 time Olympia winner ( 77,78,79) ad Yates won it several times in the 90's.
Two very different physique types as Mr O from 2 different eras.
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when ppl ask how much they will gain from a cycle ::)
then thats all you need to know about the mindset and how much ppl exaggerate the effect of drugs.
asking that question exposes the asker as a dumbass.
the pros are pros because theyre born to be pros , very simple.
the majority of people on steroids actualy looks like total shit.
genetics are everything, drugs come next.
drugs cant make up for bad genetics.
not everybody is the same.
ppl should talk less and engage less in jealousy and excuses like "all drugs" and instead hit the gym more often.
that said ,natural training is pointless.besides the first year(s), where one should learn to flex properly during exercise and how to eat right,more or less.and ofc between cycles.
in the big picture, even dan hill has good genetics.compared to the vast majority of ppl out there who dont ever train.
Good pts and good post. BUT a hardworking guy with decent genetics can buildin a decent contest level body on little or no drugs.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=439245.75
scroll down a bit and TA posted three pics I had up years back .
The 2 shots in red trunks were in 1987 and had been off all steroids for a yr.
The side chest in blue trunks was 1993 and was 7 yrs clean at that point.
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Howard, for the first time since i started reading your threads, you seem to be making sence for once, has something changed? good honest thread
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Howard, for the first time since i started reading your threads, you seem to be making sence for once, has something changed? good honest thread
Thanks and I simply opted to post some honest, open threads others might relate to.
I realized that a lot of members here enjoy hearing about the "overall" aspects of bodybuilding.
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hey howard, i sincerely believe steroids alter where youll get with clean training later on.
not the same like never doing steroids.
do you understand what i mean?
I know exactly what you mean.
This is why I posted when and what I was taking.
For example, I used some Winnie V, decca and generic d-bol tabs from 1984-86.
In the 1987 pics ( red trunks) I was off for aprox 10 full months .
That isn't that long and may have made an impact on my 1987 Jr USA physique.
I am interested in being honest and open on the drug issue instead of crazy lies and rumors.
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for some reason most people forget that there are at least two types of "genetics":
1-genetics to gain muscle by weight training without drugs
2-genetics to gain muscle by weight training with drugs
PS-for simplicity i am assuming most people in the pool end up using the same drugs
very often the people in group 1 are not in 2 and vice versa
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for some reason most people forget that there are at least two types of "genetics":
1-genetics to gain muscle by weight training without drugs
2-genetics to gain muscle by weight training with drugs
PS-for simplicity i am assuming most people in the pool end up using the same drugs
very often the people in group 1 are not in 2 and vice versa
In my case, the amount I used was so low and moderate , it never made that big a difference.
I did find it easier to get that blown up, fully separated look for a contest while on some stuff.
I can only post about what I know for a fact and that includes what I actually did.
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hey howard, i sincerely believe steroids alter where youll get with clean training later on.
not the same like never doing steroids.
do you understand what i mean?
I agree with this 100%.
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I agree with this 100%.
Maybe the drugs do alter your gains for a period of time after going off , but not beyond a a year or so.
Unlike a lot of guys, I was 100% honest on what/when I used the juice.