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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The_Hammer on March 15, 2013, 12:10:04 PM
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Assfucked
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Too many unqualifed spoiled lazy uneducated frustrated people, less and less jobs... the selection process will be brutal.
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Keep raising the minimum wage along with taxes and it will be the businesses that Will ass fucked. But since the left isn't too good with numbers, its hard for you to comprehend.
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Minimum wage is an artificial mechanism disrupting the pricing of work and therefore one of the main drivers behind unemployment among other things.
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Keep raising the minimum wage along with taxes and it will be the businesses that Will ass fucked. But since the left isn't too good with numbers, its hard for you to comprehend.
How ironic that you mention numbers, when the numbers reveal that increasing the minimum wage by about three dollars has zero effect on inflation, and cost a few pennies to business, who for the last 40 or so years have made massive profits while wages stagnated.
Your argument is invalid.
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Minimum wage is an artificial mechanism disrupting the pricing of work and therefore one of the main drivers of unemployment among other things.
Clarify how it "disrupts the price of work".
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There wont be any "painless" solution, it can only end in blood and the most adapted will survive, as usual. There are too many people and our own specie cant provide enough jobs for them all especially considering scientific progress reduces the need for people working manual jobs. There is an urgent need to control births worldwide, you cant have stupid, ugly, lazy, violent, frustrated people unable to produce shit for mankind breeding like cockroaches and playing video games all day long while ruining medical and educational systems in the first world indefinitly. Again, it will be brutal.
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There wont be any "painless" solution, it can only end in blood and the most adapted will survive, as usual. There are too many people and our own specie cant provide enough jobs for them all. There is an urgent need to control births worldwide, you cant have stupid, ugly, lazy, violent, frustrated people unable to produce shit for mankind breeding like cockroaches and playing video games all day long while ruining medical and educational systems in the first world indefinitly. Again, it will be brutal.
I agree that the worlds population needs to be controlled and downsized. Natural resources essential to life like drinkable water and phosphorous are projected to start diminishing within the next 50 years unless we develop some kind of technology to create or substitute them.
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Clarify how it "disrupts the price of work".
Not every worker is equal in productivity, I assume we all agree on this.
If employer wants to employ workforce for some simple "low-profile" jobs, he must pay them all the same regardless of how good they are at their work.
This means the price of work is not proportionate to productivity.
It would be illogical to pay someone more than what he (or his work) is worth.
So the employer don't hire.
Now, if he could pay according to productivity he could employ.
One of the most worrying things I see here is that employers can't pay young people less than the "minimum level".
This makes it difficult for employers to employ young persons fresh from school who don't have experience... their know-how is not on level of a professional yet but employer must pay them the wages of professional.
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How ironic that you mention numbers, when the numbers reveal that increasing the minimum wage by about three dollars has zero effect on inflation, and cost a few pennies to business, who for the last 40 or so years have made massive profits while wages stagnated.
Your argument is invalid.
That's FUCKING horseshit. That's the left's numbers manipulated I guarantee it. It's business commonsense. Anytime you decreased the Bottomline it takes away from growth. But since most dems are on the tax payer dole and never made a living in the private sector, again, its beyond their comprehension.
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Not every worker is equal in productivity, I assume we all agree on this.
If employer wants to employ workforce for some simple "low-profile" jobs, he must pay them all the same regardless of how good they are at their work.
This means the price of work is not proportionate to productivity.
It would be illogical to pay someone more than what he (or his work) is worth.
So the employer don't hire.
Now, if he could pay according to productivity he could employ.
I get your argument, but I don't attribute high unemployment to the value of a worker, but to the adaptation of business to maintain or even increase production and profit with a smaller workforce.
Increasing minimum wage will cost businesses money (a few cents), but relative to productivity of workers and profit over the last 40 years its been very unbalanced; unfair.
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Yes it is a shame that mr. High powered executive cant have a Mrecedes, Range Rover AND a Ferrari because those pesky "workers" cant be paid less then 7 dollars and some change. ::)
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Yes it is a shame that mr. High powered executive cant have a Mrecedes, Range Rover AND a Ferrari because those pesky "workers" cant be paid less then 7 dollars and some change. ::)
...but of course the reality is that he can--and absolutely does--have his Ferrari, too, anyway. That's the big fucking lie about this whole thing.
People are going to have to get real about this shit. One way or another, they will be forced to process this truth.
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...but of course the reality is that he can--and absolutely does--have his Ferrari, too, anyway. That's the big fucking lie about this whole thing.
People are going to have to get real about this shit. One way or another, they will be forced to process this truth.
Agree 100% .......just,making a point.
Thats whats such bullshit.....like that Pappa John Scumbag whining about healthcare. You know what the real religion of this country is ? PROFIT. nothing else comes close.
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Agree 100% .......just,making a point.
Thats whats such bullshit.....like that Pappa John Scumbag whining about healthcare. You know what the real religion of this country is ? PROFIT. nothing else comes close.
So help me, this is our weakness. It may kill us.
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Keep raising the minimum wage along with taxes and it will be the businesses that Will ass fucked. But since the left isn't too good with numbers, its hard for you to comprehend.
;D
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Turn off FOX for a few minutes, Coach. Take a fucking breath.
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...fucking corrupted media. I'm telling you...
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Turn off FOX for a few minutes, Coach. Take a fucking breath.
lololololol.
Coach will forever be trapped in the abyss of Left v. Right. It's totally irrelevant now and Coach argues it like it matters. lol
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...this POS media, and its misdirection. I've fucking had it.
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lololololol.
Coach will forever be trapped in the abyss of Left v. Right. It's totally irrelevant now and Coach argues it like it matters. lol
Agreed.
Following politics...hahahaaaaaa. Gotta stay "informed" of the latest load of utter bullshit they spoon feed you
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lololololol.
Coach will forever be trapped in the abyss of Left v. Right. It's totally irrelevant now and Coach argues it like it matters. lol
Funny thing is, he thinks he is a model citizen. The whole thing is so fucking stupid and unacceptable, it's actually outrageous.
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Grow up, Coach. Don't you think it's time?
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About 5% of the workforce is even earning minimum wage in this country. That is why you don't see an uptick in inflation, barely anyone actually makes minimum wage, which is why this argument is fodder for low-info voters and red meat for whichever base is being targeted.
Minimum wage is an artificial and arbitrary number that is attached to a unit of labor and thus does disrupt the actual cost of labor, but again, hardly anyone is actual making minimum wage. Burger flippers, big box store shelf fillers and the like make above it.
There is no such thing as raising min. wage to a point were "families can live on it." It isn't possible and it's a lie and wasn't what min. wage was intended to be, nor should it. That family will be two low-skill workers, making an artificially high wage that are gorging on govt. welfare and govt. funded programs.
This is all a red herring.
Free trade
Globalization
The Financial monopolies
The sad fact that this country is a command economy that lacks a true free market
Rising cost of living
Fed Policy
Those are what are what is driving the nation into the ground. Not a some arbitrary wage level for no-skill workers.
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...this POS media, and its misdirection. I've fucking had it.
The liberals like you have ABC,NBC and CBS news in your pocket. Add the cable news channels and you almost have a clean sweep. Lets see which newspapers lean liberal? The NY Times, Washington Post, NY Daily news and the majority across the country lean to the left. The computer news outlets like the Huffington post and Yahoo news pound the drum for Obama and crew. Speaking of the Huffington post it used to be conservative but it so threatened the left it was brought. Suddenly every news story about politics praised the democrats and slammed the Republicans.
I guess you want FOX off of cable so the left can enjoy a clean sweep of biased and unbalanced news reporting concerning politics.
Who ever controls the media controls the simpletons who vote. That's how Obama, Biden, and democrat crew got in control and wrecked the economy. This is where you bring up Bush. The economy was doing great until the house and the senate went democratic under him and ruined the economy.
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Look again, oldtimer1. You read "FOX media', when I said "POS media".
...this is exactly what I'm talking about, by the way.
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If America keeps on ignoring the likes of Senator Warren or Dr Dube then it will continue on its "race to the bottom" :D
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The liberals like you have ABC,NBC and CBS news in your pocket. Add the cable news channels and you almost have a clean sweep. Lets see which newspapers lean liberal? The NY Times, Washington Post, NY Daily news and the majority across the country lean to the left. The computer news outlets like the Huffington post and Yahoo news pound the drum for Obama and crew. Speaking of the Huffington post it used to be conservative but it so threatened the left it was brought. Suddenly every news story about politics praised the democrats and slammed the Republicans.
I guess you want FOX off of cable so the left can enjoy a clean sweep of biased and unbalanced news reporting concerning politics.
Who ever controls the media controls the simpletons who vote. That's how Obama, Biden, and democrat crew got in control and wrecked the economy. This is where you bring up Bush. The economy was doing great until the house and the senate went democratic under him and ruined the economy.
Your first post was good, this one is the typical partisan politics bullshit rant.
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Looks like "oldtimer" needs to get a new round of glasses.
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Minimum wage is a joke and doesnt do shit but cost business and consumers more $$$$. Its not meant to live on. If you dont want minimum wage - improve your skills or become self employed.
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It appears this has nothing to do with left vs right, considering many people who are republican/conservative are living in the backwoods of the USA in their trailer homes making $6.00 an hour
This has to do with the super rich vs everyone else.
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Minimum wage is a joke and doesnt do shit but cost business and consumers more $$$$. Its not meant to live on. If you dont want minimum wage - improve your skills or become self employed.
Please provide links to statistics please...reputable non-partisan links.....If min. wage jobs are 40 hours a week (which they are in most cases) It's meant for you to live on. So can you please clarify your statement?
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Please provide links to statistics please...reputable non-partisan links.....If min. wage jobs are 40 hours a week (which they are in most cases) It's meant for you to live on. So can you please clarify your statement?
Listen and learn Wiggsowitz
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most buisnesses dont make as much as you think. most buisnesses just make enough to keep everyone paying there bills and keeping a roof over there head thats it
adding a few bucks to minimum wage might actually kill the profit margin of an employer to where he might just lay that worker off instead or find a worker" under the table"
it all depends on how profitable a buisness is
big profit buisness sure increase the minimum wage
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If the minimum wage was meant to live on - based on what location? Bum Fuck Alabama or NYC?
To live in NYC - it would havr to be at least $20 an hour. Fact of the matter is that most jobs that are entry level do not generate that much productivity or profit for the business to employ a non skilled person at that scale.
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By the time you get hit with taxes, pay for gas and food your making about 0 cents an hour
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So why not make an exemption if a company can demonstrate that it cannot afford it?
Any problems with that?
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lololololol.
Coach will forever be trapped in the abyss of Left v. Right. It's totally irrelevant now and Coach argues it like it matters. lol
Mean while we have our resident dipshit that will be caught up in fantasy of Illuminati NWO take over. You are just as big of a fool as he. Accept things for what they are.
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If there's no nwo takeover why are your rights and freedoms be threatened as we speak, and why is dhs arming to the teeth to kill United States citizens, who do you think are giving the orders the illuminati heads, you need to wake up you fuckin sheeple.
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How ironic that you mention numbers, when the numbers reveal that increasing the minimum wage by about three dollars has zero effect on inflation, and cost a few pennies to business, who for the last 40 or so years have made massive profits while wages stagnated.
Your argument is invalid.
Increase the minimum wage and the price of ALL goods will increase as well for everybody else. Do you really want to pay 6 dollars for a dozen eggs?
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There wont be any "painless" solution, it can only end in blood and the most adapted will survive, as usual. There are too many people and our own specie cant provide enough jobs for them all especially considering scientific progress reduces the need for people working manual jobs. There is an urgent need to control births worldwide, you cant have stupid, ugly, lazy, violent, frustrated people unable to produce shit for mankind breeding like cockroaches and playing video games all day long while ruining medical and educational systems in the first world indefinitly. Again, it will be brutal.
I agree, religious people should not be allowed to breed.
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(http://cdn.idolator.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/07/selena-gomez-elle-1.jpeg)
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imagine this girl begging for a raise at you surf shop you own (http://25.media.tumblr.com/058da6db8456e72583143691f5b29d26/tumblr_mgt0a5opJm1rj16who1_500.jpg)
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1twLg&index=8 nwo divde and conquer tactics
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Would all prices triple, TA, or just egg prices?
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13 states raising pay for minimum-wage workers (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101301477?pid=p:cnbcx&ec_id=cmct_finance_mod)
13 states raising pay for minimum-wage workers
The retail-worker strikes that swept the nation in 2013 did not move Congress to raise the minimum wage, but a growing number of states are taking action.
The minimum wage will rise in 13 states this week, and as many as 11 states and Washington, D.C., are expected to consider increases in 2014, according to the National Employment Law Project. Approval is likely in more than half of the 11, says NELP policy analyst Jack Temple.
The trend reflects growing concerns about the disproportionate spread of low-wage jobs in the U.S. economy, creating millions of financially strained workers and putting too little money in consumers' pockets to spur faster economic growth.
On Jan. 1, state minimum wages will be higher than the federal requirement of $7.25 an hour in 21 states, up from 18 two years ago. Temple expects another nine states to drift above the federal minimum by the end of 2014, marking the first time minimum pay in most states will be above the federal level.
"2014 is poised to be a turning point," Temple says. "States are seeing the unemployment rate is going down but job growth is disproportionately concentrated in low-wage industries. (They're) frustrated that Congress is dragging its feet."
Connecticut, New York, New Jersey and Rhode Island legislatures voted to raise the minimum hourly wage by as much as $1, to $8 to $8.70, by Wednesday. In California, a $1 increase to $9 is scheduled July 1. Smaller automatic increases tied to inflation will take effect in nine other states: Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oregon, Vermont and Washington.
Meanwhile, states such as Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maryland, Minnesota and South Dakota plan to weigh minimum-wage hikes next year through legislation or ballot initiatives.
In Minnesota, the state House and Senate have each passed bills to raise the minimum wage and plan to iron out their differences early next year after failing to approve similar measures the past two decades.
"You're coming out of a deep recession, and people are landing jobs, but they're low-paid," says state Rep. Ryan Winkler, sponsor of the House bill.
The legislative movement has been partly fueled by walkouts this year in at least 100 cities by fast-food workers who are calling for $15-an-hour pay and the right to form unions. Wal-Mart workers have staged similar protests.
While the demonstrations were not explicitly intended to prompt minimum pay increases, they've made the issue" more urgent," Temple says.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that 3.6 million hourly paid workers received wages at or below the federal minimum in 2012?almost 5 percent of all employees on hourly pay schedules.
President Obama recently said he supports legislation in Congress that would lift the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour in three steps over two years and then index it to inflation. But the measure faces an uphill climb in Congress.
Proponents of minimum-wage hikes note that low-wage jobs have dominated payroll growth in the 4-year-old recovery, and increases over the past four decades have not kept pace with inflation.
Opponents say the increases raise employer expenses and will lead to layoffs. "If your costs are going up and you can't raise prices, you have to find a way to produce the same product at a lower cost," says Michael Saltsman, a research fellow at the Employment Policies Institute.
Where minimum wage is going up
On Jan. 1, the minimum wage in 13 states will increase to these amounts.
(http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2013/12/30/minimum%20wage.png)
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Too many unqualifed spoiled lazy uneducated frustrated people, less and less jobs... the selection process will be brutal.
;D
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I don't have time to argue with ya'll I'm working every day for the month of jan but here goes.
This picture is true if you replace socialism with common sense, and poor with 99 percent of the population.
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lololololol.
Coach will forever be trapped in the abyss of Left v. Right. It's totally irrelevant now and Coach argues it like it matters. lol
Agreed. A nuanced individual will be able to ponder some political issues without a strong need to side with a particular political party.
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fucking socialists.
raise minimum wage? ok... fine.. i'll just cut hours from my employees, and hire another employee to make up for the scheduling gaps... so instead of having 5 full time employees, now I have 7 part time employees who won't be able to afford to continue to keep working for me.
single mothers (or fathers) who'll get their hours cut will now have to have two jobs and have their days fractured up and spend even less time with their kids (and spend more money on day care)... spend more time driving their cars, with less money to maintain their cars, and no money to fix their cars when they break down.. and lose one of their jobs because they can't make it to work because they can't afford to replace their radiator in their 97 Honda civic.
and lets not even get into the fucking mandatory health care...
fucking democrats just running business into the ground in an effort to 'level the field' so the incompetent losers make as much money as the qualified people... fuck, you can't even fire anybody without fear of getting sued.
I'm a goddamn convicted felon, you think it was easy for me to get employed? nobody gave me a fucking handout.... and I have felons turning in job applications who are complete fucking morons and don't deserve $5/hour, let alone $8. asking for jobs looking like bums.. white guys wearing jeans and flip flops with un-tucked buttonup shirts and shaggy/trendy hair, black guys wearing jordans with dark denim and again, and un-tucked buttonup and big fake 5ct diamond earrings (must be Jay-z fans), and Mexicans dressed like cholo's, who come in wearing a straight-brim White Sox hat with the NewEra sticker still on it, and who talk like gangsters "fuck" "dog" "yo" "cuz"..... you're fucking UN-EMPLOYEABLE!!!!! and the gov't says I have to pay you a MINIMUM wage? you should be happy with $3/hour!!
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This makes me grateful to run my business as a 'One man show'. Not to worry about employees.
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How ironic that you mention numbers, when the numbers reveal that increasing the minimum wage by about three dollars has zero effect on inflation, and cost a few pennies to business, who for the last 40 or so years have made massive profits while wages stagnated.
Your argument is invalid.
The issue is that in any transaction between a buyer and a seller, and whether the goods or services involved in the transaction is a car, shoes or one's labor is irrelevant; who should determine the terms? The seller always wants to get as much as he can for his good or service and the buyer always wants to pay the least amount for that good or service. If a transaction is completed that means that both parties have come to a mutual agreement and believe they are getting the best deal given their alternative. Now mind you, I'm saying the best deal given their choices. Everybody always wants more but most, if not all, settle for what they can get.
Now why is it "fair" or "just" when an outside, third party observer who has no stake in the transaction. Takes no risk in the running of a business or has any of his personal wealth at stake step in and say, "No, you have to pay him more for this good or service. I don't care that the terms has already been proposed and agreed upon. I'm telling you what I think should be paid. Even though I have no stake in this transaction I am the one that is going to decide the terms of this deal regardless of what either of you who actually have a personal stake in this matter think. Even though I have no idea about your business or even how to run a business I know better than you as to how I think it should to be conducted."
Do you believe in economic freedom? People deciding for themselves how they should spend their money and how much value their own goods and services are worth? Or should it be determined by an outside third party observer who has no stake in the matter and suffers no consequences as to the outcome.
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and fast food workers want $15/hour?
get fucked.. you don't deserve it.
example...
I'm at mcdonalds, some fat, rude, sloppy dressed black lady takes my order, which is a 20pc nugget and a small vanilla shake.. to GO.
the nuggets aren't ready yet, so what does she do? she gets the shake ready and sets it on the counter.. it's 120 motherfucking degrees out! and at least 90degrees inside the restaurant with the doors constantly opening and closing... there my milkshake sits for at least 8 fucking minutes and I can SEE the little cherry that sits on top sink to the bottom because it's fucking MELTING.
FINALLY I get my nuggets and have to REPEAT my order for the dipping sauce so she has to go search for 4 packs of honey mustard, so by the time I get home (3mins away) my milkshake is now melted MILK.. and the dumb bitch didn't even put in a straw! I eat my shakes with a spoon usually, but it was to go, the dumb bitch should've put a straw In the bag!... not to mention the goddamn nuggets were BURNED!!
and I don't know how many fucking times I've had to park and go inside (after going through the drive through) to have them FIX MY ORDER.. not like I even have difficult orders. I don't order "no pickles" "no onions" "extra this/that" or whatever, because I know they'll fuck it up so i'll take the shit off myself.... I order 2 double cheeseburgers and they give me 2 regular cheeseburgers, or I order onion rings and they give me fries.. and then they act like it's my fault.. I NEVER order fries, why the fuck would I say "fries"?
I could go on and on and on about what complete fuckups work at fast food places...
those people think they deserve $15/hour? the waiters/waitresses at PF Changs or the ChopHouse or Yardhouse, hell, even Applebees, don't even make $15/hour and they at least provide PROPER SERVICE.
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Your first post was good, this one is the typical partisan politics bullshit rant.
You don't think that the main stream media leans Left? Despite the fact that a poll determined that nearly 85% of them voted Democrat. Which also happens to be close to the figure for college professors.
Conservatives don't deny that talk radio leans Right. They don't think it's anything to be ashamed about. Maybe you should pay more attention to what's going on in your country and in the world instead of dismissing it all as propaganda or "bull shit". Are you aware of what happened in Benghazi? Do you even know what country Benghazi is in? How about Obama care? Are you even remotely aware of the basic health care structure and how it will radically change the way we do things in this country?
Being ignorant and uninformed is how politicians are able to manipulate the population. It's a cop out and intellectually lazy to just to close your eyes and say it's all lies and bullshit. Somehow you were able the decipher the truth and lies inherent in bodybuilding. Use the same critical reasoning in regard to national and world affairs. It's all good to have big muscles in your fifties and have pretty young girls squeeze your "ridiculous" arms and say how jacked you are but it's time to grow up now, big guy. There's more to life than just your body.
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I see "The_Hammer" is a socialist, probably an incompetent democrat himself and is completely oblivious to the term "value for value".
business is about TRADERS.
you TRADE value for VALUE.
I trade my money (as an employer) for your skill/work (as an employee). you job is to do what I outline.. what I hire you for. I am under ZERO obligation to pay you anymore than what you're worth. if you're not worth "minimum wage" you're fucking fired.. hit the bricks and start cleaning toilets in 7-11's.
as a proprietor of a business, I trade my product or service for your (as the consumer/customer) money. if you don't think my product or service is worth what I'm asking, you simply don't give me your money and go elsewhere.
it's very, very simple.
would you pay $50k for a base model Ford Fiesta when you can pay $50k for a fully loaded Infinity G37?
it's value for value.
most workers aren't worth what they're paid NOW, let alone do they deserve a government-mandated RAISE.
what's next? government-mandated PAID VACATION? I bet you lazy fucks would love that..
"woooo hooo.... we gonna get a day off? AND we gonna get paid?! fuck yea dude/son/holmes! lets get fuckin wasted bro/negga/vato"
... think again, you're fucking fired. you lied on your application (or i'll find something else.. a facebook post that's detrimental to the biz, or something)... so don't count on an un-employment check either, idiot.
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Please provide links to statistics please...reputable non-partisan links.....If min. wage jobs are 40 hours a week (which they are in most cases) It's meant for you to live on. So can you please clarify your statement?
An employer offers a certain wage for a job that he wants done. Why is it his responsibility to provide you with a comfortable living? Should a job seeker approach his potential employer and say that to live comfortably he needs a certain size house in a particular neighborhood, and certain type of car, being able to support a wife and two kids, and then determine how much that will cost in their part of the country and that's how much you should start at.
An employer hires someone because he needs a job done and is willing to pay X amount of dollars. It is for the potential employee to determine if the terms are fair and what kind of life style he is willing to live. That is not an employer's concern nor is it his business.
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I see "The_Hammer" is a socialist, probably an incompetent democrat himself and is completely oblivious to the term "value for value".
business is about TRADERS.
you TRADE value for VALUE.
I trade my money (as an employer) for your skill/work (as an employee). you job is to do what I outline.. what I hire you for. I am under ZERO obligation to pay you anymore than what you're worth. if you're not worth "minimum wage" you're fucking fired.. hit the bricks and start cleaning toilets in 7-11's.
as a proprietor of a business, I trade my product or service for your (as the consumer/customer) money. if you don't think my product or service is worth what I'm asking, you simply don't give me your money and go elsewhere.
it's very, very simple.
would you pay $50k for a base model Ford Fiesta when you can pay $50k for a fully loaded Infinity G37?
it's value for value.
most workers aren't worth what they're paid NOW, let alone do they deserve a government-mandated RAISE.
what's next? government-mandated PAID VACATION? I bet you lazy fucks would love that..
"woooo hooo.... we gonna get a day off? AND we gonna get paid?! fuck yea dude/son/holmes! lets get fuckin wasted bro/negga/vato"
... think again, you're fucking fired. you lied on your application (or i'll find something else.. a facebook post that's detrimental to the biz, or something)... so don't count on an un-employment check either, idiot.
Buying and selling labor is not different than buying and selling a stereo on Amazon. It is for the buyer and seller to agree to the terms and not have the ever busy-body, nanny government sticking their nose into virtually every facet of our lives. Now I being told what kind of light bulbs I have to buy. And guess what? It's a hell of a lot more expensive. What a surprise.
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Two of my heros right there. Thomas Sowell should be running this country and his student, Walter Williams, should be VP. It's a tragedy that the best and the brightest rarely seek power.
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The playing field remains even, gentlemen. Your competition has the same labor costs. Everyone will adjust their prices accordingly.
For Captains of Industry you guys sure piss and moan a lot.
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Increase the minimum wage and the price of ALL goods will increase as well for everybody else. Do you really want to pay 6 dollars for a dozen eggs?
You also eliminate jobs and services. I remember a time when there was a gas station attendant that would pump your gas, clean your windows and check the air in your tires. There use to be a job called a dish washer where you actually did dished by hand. When the Union won their contract and Albertsons was forced to pay their checkers more, of their eight checking stations three were converted to self-checkout stations. They reduced their workforce to compensate for the increase labor cost.
Raise the cost of doing business and it will always be transferred somewhere else.
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and fast food workers want $15/hour?
get fucked.. you don't deserve it.
example...
I'm at mcdonalds, some fat, rude, sloppy dressed black lady takes my order, which is a 20pc nugget and a small vanilla shake.. to GO.
the nuggets aren't ready yet, so what does she do? she gets the shake ready and sets it on the counter.. it's 120 motherfucking degrees out! and at least 90degrees inside the restaurant with the doors constantly opening and closing... there my milkshake sits for at least 8 fucking minutes and I can SEE the little cherry that sits on top sink to the bottom because it's fucking MELTING.
FINALLY I get my nuggets and have to REPEAT my order for the dipping sauce so she has to go search for 4 packs of honey mustard, so by the time I get home (3mins away) my milkshake is now melted MILK.. and the dumb bitch didn't even put in a straw! I eat my shakes with a spoon usually, but it was to go, the dumb bitch should've put a straw In the bag!... not to mention the goddamn nuggets were BURNED!!
and I don't know how many fucking times I've had to park and go inside (after going through the drive through) to have them FIX MY ORDER.. not like I even have difficult orders. I don't order "no pickles" "no onions" "extra this/that" or whatever, because I know they'll fuck it up so i'll take the shit off myself.... I order 2 double cheeseburgers and they give me 2 regular cheeseburgers, or I order onion rings and they give me fries.. and then they act like it's my fault.. I NEVER order fries, why the fuck would I say "fries"?
I could go on and on and on about what complete fuckups work at fast food places...
those people think they deserve $15/hour? the waiters/waitresses at PF Changs or the ChopHouse or Yardhouse, hell, even Applebees, don't even make $15/hour and they at least provide PROPER SERVICE.
Brutal McMeltdown !!
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How ironic that you mention numbers, when the numbers reveal that increasing the minimum wage by about three dollars has zero effect on inflation, and cost a few pennies to business, who for the last 40 or so years have made massive profits while wages stagnated.
Your argument is invalid.
You onviusly have zero real life business experience.
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Kiss your dollar McChicken goodbye.
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no way raising price 4 cent of meal could cover a minimum wage of 20 per hour
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no way raising price 4 cent of meal could cover a minimum wage of 20 per hour
idk bro i heard there were billions served
.4 ethylene vinyl acetate to 1 cement and 3 sand by volume will never dust regardless of drying conditions and it'll stick to anything.
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no way raising price 4 cent of meal could cover a minimum wage of 20 per hour
Prove it.
Sorry Johnny, I really like you but it's hard to take you seriously. Just your diet advice changes weekly. We've all witnessed you steady physical and mental deterioration throughout the years.
You're not all there anymore.
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Look again, oldtimer1. You read "FOX media', when I said "POS media".
...this is exactly what I'm talking about, by the way.
It's pretty clear oldtimer has deduced virtually his entire worldview from his television set, a sad proposition corroborated by his unthinking reaction to your post.
He is not unique in this.
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Agreed.
Following politics...hahahaaaaaa. Gotta stay "informed" of the latest load of utter bullshit they spoon feed you
Yes, the whole notion of staying "informed" is utter crap. Youre only staying informed to the bullshit lies they feed you.
At the end of the day its:
Democrats and Republicans VS The People.
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At least I wake up white everyday.
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Im sorry, but 99% of people making minimum wage arent worth fucking half of what theyre making currently, let alone worth even 3 dollars more.
Fuck them. If they cant find a job that pays a decent wage, well, sucks to suck. Theyre not owed shit and no one deserves any money just for being born and able to make it to mcdonalds for a 4 hour shift everyday.
Worthless fucks thinking they deserve 15 an hour to flip burgers and clean floors are too fucking stupud to realize they have no skills and are not worth shit in the business world.
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Im sorry, but 99% of people making minimum wage arent worth fucking half of what theyre making currently, let alone worth even 3 dollars more.
Fuck them. If they cant find a job that pays a decent wage, well, sucks to suck. Theyre not owed shit and no one deserves any money just for being born and able to make it to mcdonalds for a 4 hour shift everyday.
Worthless fucks thinking they deserve 15 an hour to flip burgers and clean floors are too fucking stupud to realize they have no skills and are not worth shit in the business world.
Racist
8)
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People working for shit wages still qualify for public assistance, so the low minimum wages end up costing taxpayers while McDonald's/Wal-Mart stuff their pockets.
Not to mention the people that would be affected by the wage raise don't save any money; they spend it all by their next paycheck. Yeah, businesses have to pay their workers more, but they're taking more money in too
I'm always surprised to see how many people side with big business and the wealthy, especially when the vast majority of people will never be rich. I think it's just the American spirit though... we all think we'll be millionaires, even though that's not the case :-\
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Keep raising the minimum wage along with taxes and it will be the businesses that Will ass fucked. But since the left isn't too good with numbers, its hard for you to comprehend.
Coach do you know anyone who is good at what they do and still making minimum wage or worse unemployed?
I don't.
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Coach do you know anyone who is good at what they do and still making minimum wage or worse unemployed?
I don't.
nope. Not one person.
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People working for shit wages still qualify for public assistance, so the low minimum wages end up costing taxpayers while McDonald's/Wal-Mart stuff their pockets.
Not to mention the people that would be affected by the wage raise don't save any money; they spend it all by their next paycheck. Yeah, businesses have to pay their workers more, but they're taking more money in too
I'm always surprised to see how many people side with big business and the wealthy, especially when the vast majority of people will never be rich. I think it's just the American spirit though... we all think we'll be millionaires, even though that's not the case :-\
maybe its that we just arwnt bitter or angry at the wealthy for having more than we do... I cant speak for anyone elae, but I dont expect to just be given a killer wage for no reason... I earn my way,and just bscause someone has it better or easier than me is no reason to hate him or expdct that he gives me some of what he has... I earn my way. And I seem to be doingnok.
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maybe its that we just arwnt bitter or angry at the wealthy for having more than we do... I cant speak for anyone elae, but I dont expect to just be given a killer wage for no reason... I earn my way,and just bscause someone has it better or easier than me is no reason to hate him or expdct that he gives me some of what he has... I earn my way. And I seem to be doingnok.
X2. Losers will always blame the lack of their success on others. Almost every single one will do this. "They inherited it" or "If I had their breaks". Whatever. True envy is a bitch.
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I'm always surprised to see how many people side with big business and the wealthy, especially when the vast majority of people will never be rich. I think it's just the American spirit though... we all think we'll be millionaires, even though that's not the case :-\
they just hate the thought of a lowly fast worker making nearly as much as them because they worked so hard to earn one or two worthless degrees in college
E
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they just hate the thought of a lowly fast worker making nearly as much as them because they worked so hard to earn one or two worthless degrees in college
E
not that I spent a bunch of money on degrees, but does that sentence actually make sense to you? Why should someonw that can barely punch a button on a register DESERVE to make anywhere near as much as someone who has actually spent time and effort buikding a sklset or learning a trade?
how does anyone possibly justify that?
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Yes it is a shame that mr. High powered executive cant have a Mrecedes, Range Rover AND a Ferrari because those pesky "workers" cant be paid less then 7 dollars and some change. ::)
yup and its a shame those workers are forced to work those low paying jobs and have no ability to go get a better higer paying one b/c those horrible "executives" chain them to their workstations. ::)
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People working for shit wages still qualify for public assistance, so the low minimum wages end up costing taxpayers while McDonald's/Wal-Mart stuff their pockets.
Not to mention the people that would be affected by the wage raise don't save any money; they spend it all by their next paycheck. Yeah, businesses have to pay their workers more, but they're taking more money in too
I'm always surprised to see how many people side with big business and the wealthy, especially when the vast majority of people will never be rich. I think it's just the American spirit though... we all think we'll be millionaires, even though that's not the case :-\
Social and entitlement programs, the taking of money from one person and giving it to another, is a separate issue entirely. The idea that "You have to pay me more or I'm going on welfare" is a non sequitur. And you're surprised at what? Most businesses are not "big" business and wealthy but why does that matter? Just because someone is wealthy and did well in life they should be coerce into paying more? Should a rich person pay more than a poor person just because "they can afford it"?
Everyone should play by the same rules.
The issue is, whose money is it? If it's yours you should be able to do what you want with it and pay or not pay whatever you decide for whatever good or service you want or need.
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they just hate the thought of a lowly fast worker making nearly as much as them because they worked so hard to earn one or two worthless degrees in college
E
expect nothing less from a steelers fan...
not that I spent a bunch of money on degrees, but does that sentence actually make sense to you? Why should someonw that can barely punch a button on a register DESERVE to make anywhere near as much as someone who has actually spent time and effort buikding a sklset or learning a trade?
how does anyone possibly justify that?
Economic Populism...its the underlying priniciple of liberal progressive ideology these days.
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This isn't a left versus right argument. It's common sense versus abject stupidity. Costs will always be passed down to the consumer. Raising the minimum wage isn't going to impact how many Ferrari's the CEO of Burgerking owns. Instead, the small-business man who owns a franchise will take a hit.
Businesses do not exist to provide jobs. Businesses exist to make money. Raise the cost of labor and the cost of goods and services will rise accordingly.
Finally, all this minimum wage nonsense misses the bigger picture; Name one minimum wage job that a machine can't do more efficiently and for half the cost? As technology becomes more sophisticated, there is practically no reason to keep minimum wage work bums on the payroll.
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This isn't a left versus right argument. It's common sense versus abject stupidity. Costs will always be passed down to the consumer. Raising the minimum wage isn't going to impact how many Ferrari's the CEO of Burgerking owns. Instead, the small-business man who owns a franchise will take a hit.
Businesses do not exist to provide jobs. Businesses exist to make money. Raise the cost of labor and the cost of goods and services will rise accordingly.
Finally, all this minimum wage nonsense misses the bigger picture; Name one minimum wage job that a machine can't do more efficiently and for half the cost? As technology becomes more sophisticated, there is practically no reason to keep minimum wage work bums on the payroll.
Agree with everything here accept the claim that there isn't one minimum wage job that a machine can't do. There are countless number of minimum wage jobs that machines can't do. Do we have a robot that can go into a bathroom and clean the sink, toilets and mop the floor? Retrieve shopping carts and help customers with their groceries? I like those greeters at Walmart who cheerfully greet you when you enter the store and answer questions like where products are kept and check bags for receipts to deter shop lifters? Someone has to bag those fries and burgers and hand it to you.
The issue again is whose money is it and who should determine the terms in a transaction between a buyer and a seller? And it is a Left/Right issue because those on the Left support the minimum wage and constantly wants to raise it. The Right believe in less government interference and generally oppose the minimum raise let alone increasing it.
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This isn't a left versus right argument. It's common sense versus abject stupidity.
you pretty much just contradicted yourself....
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not that I spent a bunch of money on degrees, but does that sentence actually make sense to you? Why should someonw that can barely punch a button on a register DESERVE to make anywhere near as much as someone who has actually spent time and effort buikding a sklset or learning a trade?
how does anyone possibly justify that?
i justify it by thinking people should be allowed to make living especially when mcdonalds can afford it
how does anyone possibly justify thinking a person should just die because they weren't born with the same opportunities as you?
E
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expect nothing less from a steelers fan...
Economic Populism...its the underlying priniciple of liberal progressive ideology these days.
hey about dem texans
pre season super bowl favorites, start out 2 - 0
only to lose 14 straight, the worst team in the whole league
i don't waste my time supporting perennial losers, now who's the dummy tony boy?
E
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Some middle class slum lords outed in this thread. Progression can't be stopped regardless of how much fear you have of being outed as unworthy...You have been weighed, measured and found wanting...
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yup and its a shame those workers are forced to work those low paying jobs and have no ability to go get a better higer paying one b/c those horrible "executives" chain them to their workstations. ::)
You have no concept of the working poor (the new middle class). You don't even try to relate.
I'll put in perspective for you: When you have to work 2-3 jobs making $7/hour just to make ends meet, you do not have a choices. 75% of your time is taken up either at work, getting ready for work or commuting to work. There's no learning a new trade. 85% of your income is taken up by rent + food.
The executives you are referring to are of the same economic class that was OK with child labor, unsafe working conditions, the 7-day workweek, et cetera, until the unions started cracking down on what the government should have been doing. Make no mistake: We are going down that road again.
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i justify it by thinking people should be allowed to make living especially when mcdonalds can afford it
how does anyone possibly justify thinking a person should just die because they weren't born with the same opportunities as you?
E
I'm sure you're doing fine financially. Do you give a homeless person $20 bucks when he asks for money. If no, why not? I'm sure you can afford it. Why should he be allowed to "die" just because he came across bad times. How many jobs have you created? How many people are on your payroll? Why is it someone else responsibility to insure that others can make a good living. So when a teenager applies for McDonald's it is McDonald's responsibility to insure that he is able to make a good living at 16 years old?
Liberals are very generous people -- with other people's money.
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You have no concept of the working poor (the new middle class). You don't even try to relate.
I'll put in perspective for you: When you have to work 2-3 jobs making $7/hour just to make ends meet, you do not have a choices. 75% of your time is taken up either at work, getting ready for work or commuting to work. There's no learning a new trade. 85% of your income is taken up by rent + food.
The executives you are referring to are of the same economic class that was OK with child labor, unsafe working conditions, the 7-day workweek, et cetera, until the unions started cracking down on what the government should have been doing. Make no mistake: We are going down that road again.
What century are you talking about? You think the owners of businesses want to exploit children? When I was a 10 years I was paid a penny a minute to do yard work. I didn't think I was being exploited. It was the only job I could get at the time until I was old enough to get a paper route (damn child labor laws). And I was happy to have that job since my only other alternative was nothing. That's life.
Getting what you get because those are the only choices available is what life is. Nobody, or very few, get exactly what they want. They always want more for less. I buy a Ford because I can't afford a Porche. If someone is still getting minimum wage after six months to a year on the job there is either something wrong with him or he should get another job. Virtually all fast food restaurants start at over the minimum and give raises as time and skill level goes up. Some even get promoted to higher positions. No one works for years in the same job at minimum wage.
Sure, some people have to work several jobs to make ends meet. I was one of them. I worked three jobs seven days a week but during that time I also got an education. It took me nearly eight years to get a college degree. Sure it was a lot harder than for someone who came from a rich family and had his way financed for him. It's unfair that someone else was born with better opportunities than I was. It's one of the things I hate about this world. How unfair it is. But that's how it is. Would it be more "fair" to force someone to pay what you think they should get to make a good living? How much should that be? Can you really make a good living making $15.00 an hour? How about $20/hr? In fact, why don't we start everybody at $50 grand a year. They won't be rich but I think you can living comfortably on that. And what effect will that have on the economy and business?
Again, it's very easy to be generous with other people's money and tell them how much you have determined that they can afford.
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i justify it by thinking people should be allowed to make living especially when mcdonalds can afford it
how does anyone possibly justify thinking a person should just die because they weren't born with the same opportunities as you?
E
and how much money do you feel constitutes "making a living", lets get down to brass tacks and put a dollar figure on it.
Do you think it should involve having 3 kids?
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You have no concept of the working poor (the new middle class). You don't even try to relate.
I'll put in perspective for you: When you have to work 2-3 jobs making $7/hour just to make ends meet, you do not have a choices. 75% of your time is taken up either at work, getting ready for work or commuting to work. There's no learning a new trade. 85% of your income is taken up by rent + food.
The executives you are referring to are of the same economic class that was OK with child labor, unsafe working conditions, the 7-day workweek, et cetera, until the unions started cracking down on what the government should have been doing. Make no mistake: We are going down that road again.
LOL son, I went to school at night while working for both my undergrand and grad school. I did this by making good life decisions, not having children I couldnt afford, not buying shit I couldnt afford and yes taking out student loans for what I couldnt afford.
I have a better idea than most of the interweb libtard progressives including yourself.
Im not special at all, so why should I or anyone else expect anything less from someone else?
The main question is why do liberal progressives have such low standards for these people?
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I'm sure you're doing fine financially. Do you give a homeless person $20 bucks when he asks for money. If no, why not? I'm sure you can afford it. Why should he be allowed to "die" just because he came across bad times. How many jobs have you created? How many people are on your payroll? Why is it someone else responsibility to insure that others can make a good living. So when a teenager applies for McDonald's it is McDonald's responsibility to insure that he is able to make a good living at 16 years old?
Liberals are very generous people -- with other people's money.
i buy them a pizza or fast food, i've given money but i prefer not to because they might spend it on alcohol or drugs, if you think i should give money instead i will consider it, i don't run into the homeless that often because i live in the suburbs
i don't consider myself a liberal, more middle of the road
why is it wrong to want others to make a living? why do you think the head honchos at mcdonalds aren't rich enough and shouldn't pay the people that work for them?
i have no idea what your salary is but do you really relate more with a multi millionaire fat cat ceo than a mcdonalds worker? think about that
E
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hey about dem texans
pre season super bowl favorites, start out 2 - 0
only to lose 14 straight, the worst team in the whole league
i don't waste my time supporting perennial losers, now who's the dummy tony boy?
E
yea yea yuck it up...weve made changes, what have the pissburgh steelers done?
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and how much money do you feel constitutes "making a living", lets get down to brass tacks and put a dollar figure on it.
Do you think it should involve having 3 kids?
i don't know more than the 7 bucks they are making, mcdonalds can easily afford it, if they raise food prices it would be because of greed
i have no sympathy for poor people having multiple kids, that is the dumbest financial mistake a poor person can make
E
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i buy them a pizza or fast food, i've given money but i prefer not to because they might spend it on alcohol or drugs, if you think i should give money instead i will consider it, i don't run into the homeless that often because i live in the suburbs
i don't consider myself a liberal, more middle of the road
why is it wrong to want others to make a living? why do you think the head honchos at mcdonalds aren't rich enough and shouldn't pay the people that work for them?
i have no idea what your salary is but do you really relate more with a multi millionaire fat cat ceo than a mcdonalds worker? think about that
E
again Earl, what dollar amount is "making a living" for you?
what luxuries does that constitute?
you do know that most "poor" ppl live in a decent residence with plenty of room, have multiple tv's with cable, if they have kids they have a gaming system, eat out etc.
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yea yea yuck it up...weve made changes, what have the pissburgh steelers done?
what changes? firing the coach? steelers fired the o line coach that wasn't here for last years 8 - 8 season
a lot of players will be gone, texans will draft david carr's baby brother haha
E
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Greed sucks. Its like how the petrol companies keep raising prices cause of shortages and refinery outages yet post $100 billion profit year over year.
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i don't know more than the 7 bucks they are making, mcdonalds can easily afford it, if they raise food prices it would be because of greed
i have no sympathy for poor people having multiple kids, that is the dumbest financial mistake a poor person can make
E
then you would be really pissed off that the majority of ppl on welfare are single mothers, under 30, with 2+ kids and at most a high school diploma if that....
you see you advocate for paying them a "liveable wage" but cannot say what a liveable wage is. You say you have no sympathy for ppl who have kids they cant afford yet dont realize the same idiots your advocating for are the same idiots you supposedly have no sympathy for......
Education Earl, its a powerful thing
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again Earl, what dollar amount is "making a living" for you?
what luxuries does that constitute?
you do know that most "poor" ppl live in a decent residence with plenty of room, have multiple tv's with cable, if they have kids they have a gaming system, eat out etc.
they should make at least 10 dollars an hour, you don't think mcdonalds can afford it or you just don't want to see people make a better wage?
how do you know who has what in their home and where they live?
i'm not denying many of them are dumb with their money, maybe these gadgets help them deal with their sad existence of working in fast food
E
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Greed sucks. Its like how the petrol companies keep raising prices cause of shortages and refinery outages yet post $100 billion profit year over year.
Yea what about the greedy ass workers who feel like they deserve to get paid more simply b/c their company makes money?
You guys rant and rave about greedy companies but not the greedy ass workers who have the ability to better themselves and get better jobs but choose to sit on their ass and just bitch and moan.
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then you would be really pissed off that the majority of ppl on welfare are single mothers, under 30, with 2+ kids and at most a high school diploma if that....
you see you advocate for paying them a "liveable wage" but cannot say what a liveable wage is. You say you have no sympathy for ppl who have kids they cant afford yet dont realize the same idiots your advocating for are the same idiots you supposedly have no sympathy for......
Education Earl, its a powerful thing
they made dumb choices at a young age, does that mean they deserved to be fucked for life?
E
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they should make at least 10 dollars an hour, you don't think mcdonalds can afford it or you just don't want to see people make a better wage?
how do you know who has what in their home and where they live?
i'm not denying many of them are dumb with their money, maybe these gadgets help them deal with their sad existence of working in fast food
E
I know Earl b/c there have been many a study done on this subject, many a census has been poured over to get data such as this...again Education is a powerful thing.
Whether McDonalds can afford it is not the question, you think that a workers compensation should be linked to the profitability of the company? Maybe you should tell the greedy ass unions about that who refuse to cut pay, benefits and pensions when they company or municipality is facing bankruptcy.
The question is should a person be paid more than they are worth?
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Yea what about the greedy ass workers who feel like they deserve to get paid more simply b/c their company makes money?
You guys rant and rave about greedy companies but not the greedy ass workers who have the ability to better themselves and get better jobs but choose to sit on their ass and just bitch and moan.
Boeing workers up here are doing just that. They voted to strike and risked Boeing 777 being moved out of state because they wanted more money and pension though they make way more than any other union for Boeing in other states. It was silly it Boeing bluff worked as the union just signed the ok to terms.
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they made dumb choices at a young age, does that mean they deserved to be fucked for life?
E
Exactly THEY made bad choices...Does that mean their fuck ups are other peoples responsibility?
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Exactly THEY made bad choices...Does that mean their fuck ups are other peoples responsibility?
why do you only care about yourself? ME ME ME
mcdonalds or any business doesn't function at all if those workers don't show up to work so they should care
E
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i buy them a pizza or fast food, i've given money but i prefer not to because they might spend it on alcohol or drugs, if you think i should give money instead i will consider it, i don't run into the homeless that often because i live in the suburbs
i don't consider myself a liberal, more middle of the road
why is it wrong to want others to make a living? why do you think the head honchos at mcdonalds aren't rich enough and shouldn't pay the people that work for them?
i have no idea what your salary is but do you really relate more with a multi millionaire fat cat ceo than a mcdonalds worker? think about that
E
Nothing wrong with someone wanting to make a living, my friend. Forcing someone to provide for someone else's living is another thing entirely.
I know what it is like to be homeless, sleeping on park benches and doing my laundry in the bathroom of a beach restroom. But I never begged for money and always knew that I could better my situation. You just have to go out there and hustle. Nobody owe you anything, let alone a living, in this world.
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why do you only care about yourself? ME ME ME
mcdonalds or any business doesn't function at all if those workers don't show up to work so they should care
E
LMFAO are you fucking kidding me?????
thats exactly what these fucking retards are doing and your not only backing them up but excusing the fuck ups that put them in the situation in the first place
At least when Im talking about ME ME ME im not saying YOU need to give ME more money!!!!
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What century are you talking about? You think the owners of businesses want to exploit children? When I was a 10 years I was paid a penny a minute to do yard work. I didn't think I was being exploited. It was the only job I could get at the time until I was old enough to get a paper route (damn child labor laws). And I was happy to have that job since my only other alternative was nothing. That's life.
I'm not saying the business owners want to exploit children, what I am saying is that business owners will not oppose it if it means more profits for them. It's happened before in American history.
On the issue of you getting a paper route... look, what I am saying is that some people have an astonishing inability to relate. There's a difference between earning extra cash (to buy a car or magazines or candy) and having to work to help mom and dad pay the rent so that you don't end up living under a bridge. And this is where we're headed. Years ago, back in the 50s and 60s, a middle class father's salary was enough to pay for a house, college as well as vacation. That's gone.
Getting what you get because those are the only choices available is what life is. Nobody, or very few, get exactly what they want. They always want more for less. I buy a Ford because I can't afford a Porche. If someone is still getting minimum wage after six months to a year on the job there is either something wrong with him or he should get another job. Virtually all fast food restaurants start at over the minimum and give raises as time and skill level goes up. Some even get promoted to higher positions. No one works for years in the same job at minimum wage.
Dude, you're so far off the mark... it's not about buying a Ford instead of a Porsche... it's about having to spend your day working so that your kids can have a plate of food in front of them 3 times a day.
Sure, some people have to work several jobs to make ends meet. I was one of them. I worked three jobs seven days a week but during that time I also got an education.
You don't believe that for a second. And neither do I. When you get to the point that you have to lie to state your case you've drank the cool aid.
It took me nearly eight years to get a college degree. Sure it was a lot harder than for someone who came from a rich family and had his way financed for him. It's unfair that someone else was born with better opportunities than I was. It's one of the things I hate about this world. How unfair it is. But that's how it is.
Being "fair" or not is a personal opinion. That people can't survive or live a decent life at the current minimum salary is a fact backed by numbers. The big fast food chains are making a killing in profits, so if people decide to unionize and take it to the big corporations, so be it. You may find it "unfair", but I'm sure the 360,000 people who are trying to unionize will beg to differ. See, they're not even messing around with your right to have to work 3 jobs and go to college for 8 years.
Would it be more "fair" to force someone to pay what you think they should get to make a good living? How much should that be? Can you really make a good living making $15.00 an hour? How about $20/hr? In fact, why don't we start everybody at $50 grand a year. They won't be rich but I think you can living comfortably on that. And what effect will that have on the economy and business?
How much is something that should be discussed between the workers and the company. It should not be dictated by either the government or anyone else. That would be the ideal. But we all know that the shareholders and the officers always end up conspiring against the worker, and it's usually because of money, so it should not come as a surprise that more people are trying to unionize.
Again, it's very easy to be generous with other people's money and tell them how much you have determined that they can afford.
Wanna hear something? I am a net tax contributor to the economy, both at the federal and state level. If you ever got any financial aid or food stamps or any kind of government assistance... I want my part back. I don't want to finance your sorry ass.
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Greed sucks. Its like how the petrol companies keep raising prices cause of shortages and refinery outages yet post $100 billion profit year over year.
Do you know the difference between net profits and profit margin? And do you think Oil companies, or any companies, would do better: create more jobs, lower prices, increase production... if they reduced their profits?
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Slapper most "poor" in the US are not malnurished and yes minimum wage is enough for a single person to survive on. It wouldnt be a plush or pleasent life but thats why they should do what they need to do to get a better job.
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LOL son, I went to school at night while working for both my undergrand and grad school. I did this by making good life decisions, not having children I couldnt afford, not buying shit I couldnt afford and yes taking out student loans for what I couldnt afford.
You're saying you went to undergraduate as well as graduate school... and yet you say "undergrand" instead of undergrad. Did you even finish high school Billy Bob?
I have a better idea than most of the interweb libtard progressives including yourself.
I live in the same neighborhood as Bill Clinton so please spare me the "better idea" part. I pay the fucks that pay the fucks that pay the fucks that pay you.
Capisci?
Im not special at all, so why should I or anyone else expect anything less from someone else?
You see, you're projecting your opinion on someone else. That's not OK. People do have a right to unionize and seek a higher minimum wage. Your insinuation that they do not possess such a right, even though it's on the constitution, is what's really fucked up.
The main question is why do liberal progressives have such low standards for these people?
Huh?
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why do you only care about yourself? ME ME ME
mcdonalds or any business doesn't function at all if those workers don't show up to work so they should care
E
Because you are responsible for yourself. Charity should be voluntary. Make no mistake, McDonald's, Walmart, Burger King. Costco... all the big companies do far more in enriching other peoples lives but providing them with an opportunity to make an income that they wouldn't have other wise. There's a reason why people line up for an opportunity to work for these companies.
And what is this nonsense about they should care because if people didn't show up for work they would be out of business. It works both ways, my friend. People don't show up for their jobs because they care about the company. They show up because the company pays them. And if they don't show up there are others that will.
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LMFAO are you fucking kidding me?????
thats exactly what these fucking retards are doing and your not only backing them up but excusing the fuck ups that put them in the situation in the first place
At least when Im talking about ME ME ME im not saying YOU need to give ME more money!!!!
ok tony how does it affect you if they get a better wage?
you think the job is too easy so they shouldn't be paid?
you aren't one of those double majors in creative arts/art history guys are you?
E
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Slapper most "poor" in the US are not malnurished and yes minimum wage is enough for a single person to survive on. It wouldnt be a plush or pleasent life but thats why they should do what they need to do to get a better job.
No it's not.
That you think it is is what's really fucked up.
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You're saying you went to undergraduate as well as graduate school... and yet you say "undergrand" instead of undergrad. Did you even finish high school Billy Bob?
I live in the same neighborhood as Bill Clinton so please spare me the "better idea" part. I pay the fucks that pay the fucks that pay the fucks that pay you.
Capisci?
You see, you're projecting your opinion on someone else. That's not OK. People do have a right to unionize and seek a higher minimum wage. Your insinuation that they do not possess such a right, even though it's on the constitution, is what's really fucked up.
Huh?
you got ball slapper I made a typo ::) I must be a minimum wage making dumb ass LOL
what does you living in Bill "I didnt have sexual relations with that woman" Clinton have to do with you have a better idea than me about working and doing whats needed to get a better job?
and where did I say they didnt have the right?
are you fuking retarded?
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ok tony how does it affect you if they get a better wage?
you think the job is too easy so they shouldn't be paid?
you aren't one of those double majors in creative arts/art history guys are you?
E
Again what does that have to fucking do with it?
whether or not it effects me personally which is certainly would b/c yes the companies actions would change whether it was in higher prices, maybe offering less services products etc. doesnt justify paying someone more than they are worth.
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No it's not.
That you think it is is what's really fucked up.
actually it is, that you think it isnt shows the idiocy that you believe in...
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Because you are responsible for yourself. Charity should be voluntary. Make no mistake, McDonald's, Walmart, Burger King. Costco... all the big companies do far more in enriching other peoples lives but providing them with an opportunity to make an income that they wouldn't have other wise. There's a reason why people line up for an opportunity to work for these companies.
And what is this nonsense about they should care because if people didn't show up for work they would be out of business. It works both ways, my friend. People don't show up for their jobs because they care about the company. They show up because the company pays them. And if they don't show up there are others that will.
they provide a shit income when they can afford to provide more, they take advantage of their desperation, wow thanks for the "opportunity"
i know that's their mentality, that's why they pay shit because some other desperate person without options will take the job, there will always be far more "fuck ups" than fat cats
your thoughts on the homeless just shows lack of empathy considering you were homeless, not everybody has the ability to "hustle" whatever you mean by that, does that mean you resorted to crime?
E
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Economically illiterate Liberals think everything happens in a vacuum. If McDonalds were to dramatically raise wages the marginally profitable franchises would go out business and the others might find it more profitable to replace workers with machines or computers. This decreases employment.
In addition, the majority of fast food workers are very young and for many, it's their first job. So, there's more than just the wages. It's learning to show up on time and be accountable. When you raise wages above market rates, you cut out the first rung of the ladder for those need it the most, the poor. You know, the people Liberals supposedly care so much about.
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Again what does that have to fucking do with it?
whether or not it effects me personally which is certainly would b/c yes the companies actions would change whether it was in higher prices, maybe offering less services products etc. doesnt justify paying someone more than they are worth.
why are you so passionate about them not making a better wage? i never participate in these conversations but you have for years, why does it bother you?
higher prices would just be mcdonalds greed, if you like a big mac so much what is another buck to you? i mean you can afford it right you work so hard and earned everything...
E
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On the issue of you getting a paper route... look, what I am saying is that some people have an astonishing inability to relate. There's a difference between earning extra cash (to buy a car or magazines or candy) and having to work to help mom and dad pay the rent so that you don't end up living under a bridge. And this is where we're headed. Years ago, back in the 50s and 60s, a middle class father's salary was enough to pay for a house, college as well as vacation. That's gone.
Both parents work because they want more people because the want a higher standard of livig. Standards of living are much higher now. The garage is full of cars. We only had one when I was growing up. For the first time in history their are more TVs in the house than people. Just look at the "entertainment centers" in the average home? House are much bigger now. They have a/c, washer/dryer, microwaves, two refrigerators....
Dude, you're so far off the mark... it's not about buying a Ford instead of a Porsche... it's about having to spend your day working so that your kids can have a plate of food in front of them 3 times a day.
No I'm not. The point is that everyone has limited choices and trade offs in life. I was a burger flipper because I couldn't get any other higher paying or better job. But I got work experience and an education and was able to advance in life. It is not someone else's responsibility to insure that I succeed and make a good living.
You don't believe that for a second. And neither do I. When you get to the point that you have to lie to state your case you've drank the cool aid.
What don't I believe? What am I lying about?
Being "fair" or not is a personal opinion. That people can't survive or live a decent life at the current minimum salary is a fact backed by numbers. The big fast food chains are making a killing in profits, so if people decide to unionize and take it to the big corporations, so be it. You may find it "unfair", but I'm sure the 360,000 people who are trying to unionize will beg to differ. See, they're not even messing around with your right to have to work 3 jobs and go to college for 8 years.
What do you mean people can't survive? How many people are dying on the streets because they are working minimum wage jobs? When I was 18 I was working seven days a week at two security guard jobs. I live in a one room studio with no kitchen sink or over. I had a hot plate and did my dishes in the shower. But still I manage to survive and save up some money and move to the mainland where I had better opportunities. How many jobs have you provider for others? How many people have you enabled to make a good living. Nothing is easier than to require other people to do what you want and think they should do.
How much is something that should be discussed between the workers and the company. It should not be dictated by either the government or anyone else. That would be the ideal. But we all know that the shareholders and the officers always end up conspiring against the worker, and it's usually because of money, so it should not come as a surprise that more people are trying to unionize.
Wanna hear something? I am a net tax contributor to the economy, both at the federal and state level. If you ever got any financial aid or food stamps or any kind of government assistance... I want my part back. I don't want to finance your sorry ass.
Well, I can see compassion goes out the window quickly when someone disagrees with you. But don't worry. I've been in worse circumstance than you'll ever be and I survived without a handout from anyone.
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you got ball slapper I made a typo ::) I must be a minimum wage making dumb ass LOL
Well, that plus the fact that your grammar is awful tells me you have the IQ of an iPhone.
what does you living in Bill "I didnt have sexual relations with that woman" Clinton have to do with you have a better idea than me about working and doing whats needed to get a better job?
I am part of a higher echelon of society. I have a better idea on how to milk the system. I knew what it took to get to where I am and I did it. Now, do I think everyone should do what I did? Nope. Do I opine that if people do not meet my own personal standards and make mistakes (we're all human after all) they should be left to die by society? Nope.
and where did I say they didnt have the right?
I didn't say you "said", I said you insinuated such a thing. If you don't believe me read your own comments.
are you fuking retarded?
"fuking"? ;D
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they provide a shit income when they can afford to provide more, they take advantage of their desperation, wow thanks for the "opportunity"
i know that's their mentality, that's why they pay shit because some other desperate person without options will take the job, there will always be far more "fuck ups" than fat cats
your thoughts on the homeless just shows lack of empathy considering you were homeless, not everybody has the ability to "hustle" whatever you mean by that, does that mean you resorted to crime?
E
companys are not there to provide jobs, jobs are a by product of the companies goal of providing services/products for a profit.
Understand that Earl, you nor anyone else is ENTITLED to a job.
Jobs are something that are given on merit and the compensation is comsumerate with that merit.
Your argument is based solely on emotion and envy b/c they have more then others...
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Well, that plus the fact that your grammar is awful tells me you have the IQ of an iPhone.
I am part of a higher echelon of society. I have a better idea on how to milk the system. I knew what it took to get to where I am and I did it. Now, do I think everyone should do what I did? Nope. Do I opine that if people do not meet my own personal standards and make mistakes (we're all human after all) they should be left to die by society? Nope.
I didn't say you "said", I said you insinuated such a thing. If you don't believe me read your own comments.
"fuking"? ;D
How can you live this life of luxury with so many people starving and dying because they are working for minimum wage? You obviously have way more than enough. You can afford to pay more to others. Instead of requiring others to give more why don't you?
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why are you so passionate about them not making a better wage? i never participate in these conversations but you have for years, why does it bother you?
higher prices would just be mcdonalds greed, if you like a big mac so much what is another buck to you? i mean you can afford it right you work so hard and earned everything...
E
I am not passionate about them not making a better wage, I encourage all of them to go out get an education/learn a trade and live a better life.
I am passionate about self entitled fuck ups who think its other peoples responsibility to take care of them though.
you continue to call the companies greedy but ignorantly look right over the greed of the workers?
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I am not passionate about them not making a better wage, I encourage all of them to go out get an education/learn a trade and live a better life.
I am passionate about self entitled fuck ups who think its other peoples responsibility to take care of them though.
you continue to call the companies greedy but ignorantly look right over the greed of the workers?
Jay Leno makes almost 30 million a year. Who needs that much money? Why isn't he exploiting NBC?
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How can you live this life of luxury with so many people starving and dying because they are working for minimum wage? You obviously have way more than enough. You can afford to pay more to others. Instead of requiring others to give more why don't you?
Who the hell is starving in America?
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Well, that plus the fact that your grammar is awful tells me you have the IQ of an iPhone.
I am part of a higher echelon of society. I have a better idea on how to milk the system. I knew what it took to get to where I am and I did it. Now, do I think everyone should do what I did? Nope. Do I opine that if people do not meet my own personal standards and make mistakes (we're all human after all) they should be left to die by society? Nope.
I didn't say you "said", I said you insinuated such a thing. If you don't believe me read your own comments.
"fuking"? ;D
LMFAO trust me dousche bag I deal with the finances of people ten times more financially set then your dumb ass so you can take your made up fantasy and shove it straight up your ass.
Thats fine if you feel that way donate some of that monopoly money after your done playing with your mom to them. DO NOT feel like your opinons on their fuck ups should extend to my pockets or the pockets of anyone elses
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Who the hell is starving in America?
fucking exactly, according the slapper these people are all strugling to put food on the table even though they have plenty of room in their residence, have multiple tvs with cable, video game systems for their kids...
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fucking exactly, according the slapper these people are all strugling to put food on the table even though they have plenty of room in their residence, have multiple tvs with cable, video game systems for their kids...
Our poorest are our fattest, go figure.
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companys are not there to provide jobs, jobs are a by product of the companies goal of providing services/products for a profit.
Understand that Earl, you nor anyone else is ENTITLED to a job.
Jobs are something that are given on merit and the compensation is comsumerate with that merit.
Your argument is based solely on emotion and envy b/c they have more then others...
they can't provide the service without people willing to work for them, those hamburgers don't cook themselves
yeah they have more than me, they also have more than you yet you side with them
are you a corporate millionaire or is it a case of trying to buddy up with the star qb thinking that is your ticket to being in his clique?
E
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fucking exactly, according the slapper these people are all strugling to put food on the table even though they have plenty of room in their residence, have multiple tvs with cable, video game systems for their kids...
Socialists are in a position of continually having to minimize the successes of Capitalism. To do this, they have to take almost everything for granted. The median World income per capita is 10k a year. By world standards American poor live like kings have and access to goods and services that weren't available even to the Elites just a few years ago.
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By the way a single person making minimum wage is above the poverty line
http://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-are-annual-earnings-full-time-minimum-wage-worker
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Our poorest are our fattest, go figure.
An online friend of mine who lives in India told me his dream is to be able to live in America. A chance of fortune that many of us here did nothing to earn or deserve. When I asked what was the number one reason he wanted to live here he told me, "I want to be able to live in a country where the poor people are fat."
People here take so much for granted and have no idea what being poor really means.
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An online friend of mine who lives in India told me his dream is to be able to live in America. A chance of fortune that many of us here did nothing to earn or deserve. When I asked what was the number one reason he wanted to live here he told me, "I want to be able to live in a country where the poor people are fat."
People here take so much for granted and have no idea what being poor really means.
Absolutely.
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they can't provide the service without people willing to work for them, those hamburgers don't cook themselves
yeah they have more than me, they also have more than you yet you side with them
are you a corporate millionaire or is it a case of trying to buddy up with the star qb thinking that is your ticket to being in his clique?
E
b/c I dont fucking care that they have more than me, this isnt a us vs them thing Earl!!!
The thing is bro that basically EVERYBODY has the ability to flip burgers and push buttons on a cash register. The skill set for a position like that is so low that it doesnt warrant a higher pay.
Again you get jobs based on MERIT, you are not entitled to a job...
I am not a millionaire, I do deal with millionaires and billionaires on a daily basis and may have the opportunity in the future to make millions. I also may only make 100K a year for the rest of my life.
First you chastised me for it being all about "me" and now youre saying that its all about You...LMFAO only on getbig bro
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Boeing workers up here are doing just that. They voted to strike and risked Boeing 777 being moved out of state because they wanted more money and pension though they make way more than any other union for Boeing in other states. It was silly it Boeing bluff worked as the union just signed the ok to terms.
youre up here too eh? Yeah, it was fucking dumb and the Boeing employees are so out of touch with reality.... they get paid 3x as mich as any non boeing employee to do the same job and have insane benefits yet somehow theyre striking and bitching about how they're getting fucked over.
people are fucking retarded and always want more and want someone else to pay for it, and dont feel that their personal skills, work ethic, or qualifications factor into it.
generation entitlement, give me money because you have it and im envious of peace.
where you at in Washington? Im in the south east 405 area... northern kent/southern renton.
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Both parents work because they want more people because the want a higher standard of livig. Standards of living are much higher now. The garage is full of cars. We only had one when I was growing up. For the first time in history their are more TVs in the house than people. Just look at the "entertainment centers" in the average home? House are much bigger now. They have a/c, washer/dryer, microwaves, two refrigerators....
I'm talking about people who take the bus to get to work, who drop their kids off at the local church or pre-school program center so that they can have a free breakfast and... you're talking about entertainment centers.
No I'm not. The point is that everyone has limited choices and trade offs in life. I was a burger flipper because I couldn't get any other higher paying or better job. But I got work experience and an education and was able to advance in life. It is not someone else's responsibility to insure that I succeed and make a good living.
And that's your experience, which OK. Believe me, no one is going to get in the way of your wish to work 3 jobs and take 8 years to get an undergraduate degree. If you want to take the hard way up, be my guest. Now, if people want a different route, spare them your bullshit. It's their right. It's like saying "yeah, I'm dumb and I'm proud!". Well, the other 99.99% don't want to be as dumb as you.
What don't I believe? What am I lying about?
A single job takes 7-9 hours of your time, depending on whether you take lunch or not (including commute). What you are saying is that you used to work between 21 and 24 hours per day, as well as go to school, presumably on a part time basis. At least this is what you intended to have people believe. I called your bluff and scored it with a bullshit. You lied, plain and simple.
What you were probably doing is working at the GAP on a part-time basis, then helping your uncle Luiggi at the pizza place on Saturdays and once in a while help your gumbah Vinnie with his DJ business. This is the reason I'm saying that most of you can't relate, because the arguments you are using are so far off the mark they percolate "I have idea what I'm talking about, but I'll say it real loud and with lots of cuss words and insults to make people turn away in disgust (which you take as an argumentative victory, and this is the sad part)".
What do you mean people can't survive? How many people are dying on the streets because they are working minimum wage jobs? When I was 18 I was working seven days a week at two security guard jobs.
Oh, we've gone from 3 to 2 jobs now. Do you understand the lying part now?
I live in a one room studio with no kitchen sink or over. I had a hot plate and did my dishes in the shower. But still I manage to survive and save up some money and move to the mainland where I had better opportunities. How many jobs have you provider for others? How many people have you enabled to make a good living. Nothing is easier than to require other people to do what you want and think they should do.
And that's OK, I've been saying this all along: If you want to take the hard and long way to the top, be my guest. You're certainly not impressing me.
How many jobs have I provided? Directly? Plenty. I pay for people to come over and take care of my trees, my gardens as well as other choirs. And I'm pretty sure my tax dollars easily employ two or three individuals. That's how I roll.
Well, I can see compassion goes out the window quickly when someone disagrees with you. But don't worry. I've been in worse circumstance than you'll ever be and I survived without a handout from anyone.
See how you react differently when people thrown your own arguments back at you?
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WTF are these people doing with kids slapper if they cant afford them?
again a single person working full time getting minimum wage is above the poverty line........
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LMFAO trust me dousche bag I deal with the finances of people ten times more financially set then your dumb ass so you can take your made up fantasy and shove it straight up your ass.
Thats fine if you feel that way donate some of that monopoly money after your done playing with your mom to them. DO NOT feel like your opinons on their fuck ups should extend to my pockets or the pockets of anyone elses
Dude, five minutes with you and I'd get so far into your brain they'd eventually find you in some mental institution in Mexico, all curled up in a fetal position asking for your mother's tits.
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WTF are these people doing with kids slapper if they cant afford them?
again a single person working full time getting minimum wage is above the poverty line........
minimum wage isnt designed to support a family anyway. I have next to zero sympathy for people complaining about making minimum wage. If you have ANY marketable skill (hell even driving a fucking van) you can get a job making more than minimum wage.
Generally people make minimum wage because theyre too fucking lazy or incompetent to find other work. I realize there are exceptions but not nearly as much as people like to make out. Ive never known anyone to be 'trapped' in a minimum wage job.
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How can you live this life of luxury with so many people starving and dying because they are working for minimum wage? You obviously have way more than enough. You can afford to pay more to others. Instead of requiring others to give more why don't you?
What I give away to charity on a yearly basis is worth more than the island where you're from.
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Dude, five minutes with you and I'd get so far into your brain they'd eventually find you in some mental institution in Mexico, all curled up in a fetal position asking for your mother's tits.
sure you would champ, sure you would ;)
dont forget to throw in a hotel or two when donating that monopoly money to those people who made horrible life decisions.
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sure you would champ, sure you would ;)
dont forget to throw in a hotel or two when donating that monopoly money to those people who made horrible life decisions.
Once I get them to increase the minimum wage I'll make sure those "people" get you a nice time share in Mexico... with your own money.
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Once I get them to increase the minimum wage I'll make sure those "people" get you a nice time share in Mexico... with your own money.
haha, youre such a dick.
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Once I get them to increase the minimum wage I'll make sure those "people" get you a nice time share in Mexico... with your own money.
well dont forget that helmet when you leave the house there champ.
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again a single person working full time getting minimum wage is above the poverty line........
and just in case you didnt see this ^^^^^^^^^
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end min wage
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And that's your experience, which OK. Believe me, no one is going to get in the way of your wish to work 3 jobs and take 8 years to get an undergraduate degree. If you want to take the hard way up, be my guest. Now, if people want a different route, spare them your bullshit. It's their right. It's like saying "yeah, I'm dumb and I'm proud!". Well, the other 99.99% don't want to be as dumb as you.
What makes you think it was my wish to work 3 jobs and take 8 years to get a degree? I didn't have the financial advantages that others had so I had to do what I had to do to achieve my goals. If I could have taken and different easier route I would have. Life is unfair. Some people have it better than others. I can complain and insist that others give me what I think I am entitled to or take personal responsibility and make the best of my situation and try to improve upon it.
A single job takes 7-9 hours of your time, depending on whether you take lunch or not (including commute). What you are saying is that you used to work between 21 and 24 hours per day, as well as go to school, presumably on a part time basis. At least this is what you intended to have people believe. I called your bluff and scored it with a bullshit. You lied, plain and simple.
Well, it's obvious you come from privilege and don't know anything about roughing it. I work for Sears Monday-Thursday for five hours and on Fridays for 8 hours. I also worked at a gym on Sat and Sunday for 8 hr shifts. It was good for a student because I worked the desk and could do my homework. I went to school part time during the week in the morning. My shift at Sears was 4-9 PM and on Fridays from 1-9PM.
What you were probably doing is working at the GAP on a part-time basis, then helping your uncle Luiggi at the pizza place on Saturdays and once in a while help your gumbah Vinnie with his DJ business. This is the reason I'm saying that most of you can't relate, because the arguments you are using are so far off the mark they percolate "I have idea what I'm talking about, but I'll say it real loud and with lots of cuss words and insults to make people turn away in disgust (which you take as an argumentative victory, and this is the sad part)".
Wrong.
Oh, we've gone from 3 to 2 jobs now. Do you understand the lying part now?
At the age of 18 I wasn't going to school and worked a night shift (4-12 PM) Mon-Friday as a security guard at the Marco Polo condo in Waikiki. On Sat-Sun I worked the 4-12 PM shift also as a security guard for another condo in Hawaii Kai, The Esplande. On Tuesday and Thursdays or Mon, Weds, Fri (depending on the schedule) I worked the 9-2 shift at JC Penny as a cashier. When I saved enough money I move to California where I worked full time at a print shop for a year to establish residency so that I could qualify for in State tuition which is a fraction of the cost for an out of State tuition. After working for a year and saving some money I then started going to college, first a community college, El Camino in Torrance, CA. and then transfered to UCLA. That's when I quite my job at the print shop and took the part time jobs at Sears and the now defunct Barlow's gym.
And that's OK, I've been saying this all along: If you want to take the hard and long way to the top, be my guest. You're certainly not impressing me.
I took this road because I wasn't born into privilege. Just like so many others. But I didn't complain or insist that others support me or require my employers to pay me more because they can afford to. I tried to make the best of my circumstances given my situations and opportunities available. You can't understand this because your parents paid for your education and supported you. You had it better. Good for you. I don't resent it. You had a shorter, easier way because you just happened to be born into a better situation. That's life.
How many jobs have I provided? Directly? Plenty. I pay for people to come over and take care of my trees, my gardens as well as other choirs. And I'm pretty sure my tax dollars easily employ two or three individuals. That's how I roll.
And how much do you pay them? Do they make a good living? The way you talk you sound like you could afford to pay them more. Why don't you? You seem to have way more than enough. Way more than what most people have or need. Instead of insisting that other people pay more because they "can afford it" why don't you?
See how you react differently when people thrown your own arguments back at you?
(http://How have I reacted differently? It seems to me that you are taking this personally and resorting to insults.)
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What I give away to charity on a yearly basis is worth more than the island where you're from.
So you could buy Hawaii? Why don't you do that and house all the people you claim to care so much about?
You're quite full of yourself, aren't you? But that's typical of Liberals. They are better and smarter than everyone else and knows what's best for them. Even how much one should pay and be paid.
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Thanks for posting this, i didn't read any of this thread, but just the title reminds my how thankful i am that i have an Engineering degree with MBA. I worked full time and got both degrees while being employed. Many years ago i made $9 per hour and still made it through college with zero debt. If people actually learn how to value a dollar it's possible.
Sadly, i don't feel bad for people who make minimum wage. It's up to them to better themselves. My tax dollars are already wasted enough and a cheeseburger is getting too expensive already. Learn a trade and stop shitting out kids. Go live in a 3rd world country and come back and complain.
8)
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Thanks for posting this, i didn't read any of this thread, but just the title reminds my how thankful i am that i have an Engineering degree with MBA. I worked full time and got both degrees while being employed. Many years ago i made $9 per hour and still made it through college with zero debt. If people actually learn how to value a dollar it's possible.
Sadly, i don't feel bad for people who make minimum wage. It's up to them to better themselves. My tax dollars are already wasted enough and a cheeseburger is getting too expensive already. Learn a trade and stop shitting out kids. Go live in a 3rd world country and come back and complain.
8)
X2
As I said before, we take so much for granted here. We all come from different circumstances and we can't all be millionaires like Slapper living near the Clintons (is that something to brag about?) but this is still America and if you are willing to work hard and sacrifice you can always improve on your situation and there's no where else where you can make a better life for yourselves.
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x0
I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure. That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course. No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day. Metric, no less, so no fractions. Not a retard but just... slow.
Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead. Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners. They need to make a living too. That's the purpose of law. To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong. Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.
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I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure. That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course. No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day. Metric, no less, so no fractions. Not a retard but just... slow.
Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead. Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners. They need to make a living too. That's the purpose of law. To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong. Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.
There are plenty of govt programs to assist a person such as the one you described. We dont have to raise the minimum wage so that the VAST VAST MAJORITY of people who do have the ability to do better can get bailed out of the shitty ass decisions they have made.
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I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure. That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course. No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day. Metric, no less, so no fractions. Not a retard but just... slow.
Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead. Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners. They need to make a living too. That's the purpose of law. To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong. Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.
THIS
Some people,no matter what they do, or attempt to do, either don`t have the faculties to move upwards, or nobody gives them a chance to do so in the first place.
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THIS
Some people,no matter what they do, or attempt to do, either don`t have the faculties to move upwards, or nobody gives them a chance to do so in the first place.
There are plenty of govt programs to assist a person such as the one you described. We dont have to raise the minimum wage so that the VAST VAST MAJORITY of people who do have the ability to do better can get bailed out of the shitty ass decisions they have made.
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So you could buy Hawaii? Why don't you do that and house all the people you claim to care so much about?
That's what I'm trying to accomplish with the minimum wage increase. The increase would apply to the territory of the USA, including Hawaii. I can't believe I have to point this out to you...
You're quite full of yourself, aren't you? But that's typical of Liberals. They are better and smarter than everyone else and knows what's best for them. Even how much one should pay and be paid.
I'm not a liberal.
Like I said, off the mark.
I bet the average IQ in the mainland went down 50 points once you set foot in it.
Should've stayed in Hawaii picking pineapples kanapapiki.
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I met a kid who couldn't read a tape measure. That was after a 6 month pre-apprenticship course. No matter how many times you showed him he continued to struggle with it all day. Metric, no less, so no fractions. Not a retard but just... slow.
Not everyone can simply decide to get ahead. Yes, far more can than do but there's always going to be a group of bottom level wage earners. They need to make a living too. That's the purpose of law. To protect the weak from being eaten by the strong. Lol @ the position that only those exactly as weak as one's self should be protected by law, and the law of the jungle should apply to anyone weaker.
You do realize that in all factuality... This kid is a buffoon.
If you can't read a tape measure (something they teach in the 3rd grade) then you fail at life and just suck.
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You do realize that in all factuality... This kid is a buffoon.
If you can't read a tape measure (something they teach in the 3rd grade) then you fail at life and just suck.
this. Hes doomed to work some mundane job making minimum wage because frankly thats all hes worth.
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You're so god-dammed dumb you can't even quote people.
This is how you do it:
what I said that got your nipples hard goes here.
Whatever dumb shit you choose to say here (outside of the quotes).
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There are plenty of govt programs to assist a person such as the one you described. We dont have to raise the minimum wage so that the VAST VAST MAJORITY of people who do have the ability to do better can get bailed out of the shitty ass decisions they have made.
Help out the ones with an IQ of 80 and those with an IQ of 81 are the new bottom earners. There's always going to be a bottom class incapable of advancement. If they're willing to work a full time job then they should be able to eat and keep a roof over themselves. Anything less is uncivilized and something I'd expect to find in the third world.
What does the guy who went to Yale and makes $50m a year think of us? We're a bunch of drones. Mice in a wheel, year after year, just marking time, hopeless fucks incapable of advancement, doing nothing to improve the world or better mankind. He probably thinks we should all be knocked off in order to make way for superior humans like him.
Yeah, a lot of people need to get off their ass. (I've been pretty complacent recently and need to get off MY ass.) A minimum wage which you can't live on in a job with little hope for advancement and zero social cachet like fast food isn't a very motivating prospect, however, and everyone in this thread agrees they're so glad they make more than that. But hey, what's the deal with all those defective fuck welfare cases and crack dealers?
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Help out the ones with an IQ of 80 and those with an IQ of 81 are the new bottom earners. There's always going to be a bottom class incapable of advancement. If they're willing to work a full time job then they should be able to eat and keep a roof over themselves. Anything less is uncivilized and something I'd expect to find in the third world.
What does the guy who went to Yale and makes $50m a year think of us? We're a bunch of drones. Mice in a wheel, year after year, just marking time, hopeless fucks incapable of advancement, doing nothing to improve the world or better mankind. He probably thinks we should all be knocked off in order to make way for superior humans like him.
Yeah, a lot of people need to get off their ass. (I've been pretty complacent recently and need to get off MY ass.) A minimum wage which you can't live on in a job with little hope for advancement and zero social cachet like fast food isn't a very motivating prospect, however, and everyone in this thread agrees they're so glad they make more than that. But hey, what's the deal with all those defective fuck welfare cases and crack dealers?
As we have already pointed out in this thread MANY MANY TIMES
a SINGLE person working full time making minimum wage is ABOVE THE POVERTY LINE...
you can live off of the minimum wage!!! its not a great life but then again its not meant to be...
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this. Hes doomed to work some mundane job making minimum wage because frankly thats all hes worth.
"Worth" is a big notion. Based on his replaceability? Or the value of what he produces vs what he consumes? Does he have some innate moral worth or is it measured strictly in dollars? Etc.
I reckon it like this: Define shit however, there's always going to be a below average half. By definition, they are a drain on the above average half. If you're lucky enough to be above average, it suits you better to be grateful than resentful.
Naturally, I'm one of the grateful. ;D
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As we have already pointed out in this thread MANY MANY TIMES
a SINGLE person working full time making minimum wage is ABOVE THE POVERTY LINE...
you can live off of the minimum wage!!! its not a great life but then again its not meant to be...
In the 50s the milkman could send his kids to college while his wife stayed at home. Now, he has to throw them all off a bridge to keep himself fed. Awesome progress.
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Minimum wage? I havent worried about that since I was a teenager. Any adult concerned about it has had life stomp their ass.
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No, I didn't hire the stupid kid on even tho I claim he has a right to an income.
Are you people even awake out there or what? :o
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"Worth" is a big notion. Based on his replaceability? Or the value of what he produces vs what he consumes? Does he have some innate moral worth or is it measured strictly in dollars? Etc.
I reckon it like this: Define shit however, there's always going to be a below average half. By definition, they are a drain on the above average half. If you're lucky enough to be above average, it suits you better to be grateful than resentful.
Naturally, I'm one of the grateful. ;D
worth as in, he cannot learn or retain anything that will allow him to compile a skill set deemed valuable to a company... therefore his worth in the business world is damned to be the minimum wage allowable by law, as hes obviously in the extreme bottom bracket of employees. These people are never going to be able to do anything more than pushing a broom or hitting a 'start' button, so why should he earn anywhere near what others earn, who actually have skills, or are motivated to learn, or have natural talent?
I understand your moral grandsranding but the fact is as an employee hes next to worthless to 99% of employees, and giving him a wage that rivals what people that have spent time, money, and effort to acquire just because 'its unfair that he doesnt make enough to live a comfortable life like we do' is, in fact, unfair to those that have excelled or out in the time and effort.
it would be just as unfair if I demanded to make 45 an hour because the 'ive league guy has a million dollar house so why cant I?'
People are not created equal, and people don't deserve to make a certain amount just 'because its uncivilized, dammit'.
Youre not bringing them up to a decent life, youre bringing all those that have worked their ass off down to the lower class with the dipshit that cant read a tape measure.
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There are laws of Economics which are as unalterable as the law of gravity.
One of these laws states that there is a relationship between price and demand. If the price of something goes high enough demand will drop.
This holds true for labor, as well. If you increase the price of labor, employers will demand less of it.
If you raise the minimum wage, you will help some, but their gain will come at the expense of the newly unemployed.
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"Worth" is a big notion. Based on his replaceability? Or the value of what he produces vs what he consumes? Does he have some innate moral worth or is it measured strictly in dollars? Etc.
I reckon it like this: Define shit however, there's always going to be a below average half. By definition, they are a drain on the above average half. If you're lucky enough to be above average, it suits you better to be grateful than resentful.
Naturally, I'm one of the grateful. ;D
what i find just extremely hypocritical is if an above average half points out the below average half's shitt decisions, unwillingness to work hard and do whats necessary to get ahead they are resentful.
If the below average have complains about the wages they get while not doing anything to obtain a better job and wages they are just wanting equality
If you really want to see resentment look at the below average half.
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In the 50s the milkman could send his kids to college while his wife stayed at home. Now, he has to throw them all off a bridge to keep himself fed. Awesome progress.
First do you have any data at all to back up your claim?
I have plenty of data to show that the "poor" people in the US first have it much better than other "poor" people around the world. Also that they spend frivolously and make horrible life decisions.
P.S. a professional delivery man which is the the basic equivilent to a milk man today can actually make a good living.
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worth as in, he cannot learn or retain anything that will allow him to compile a skill set deemed valuable to a company... therefore his worth in the business world is damned to be the minimum wage allowable by law, as hes obviously in the extreme bottom bracket of employees. These people are never going to be able to do anything more than pushing a broom or hitting a 'start' button, so why should he earn anywhere near what others earn, who actually have skills, or are motivated to learn, or have natural talent?
I understand your moral grandsranding but the fact is as an employee hes next to worthless to 99% of employees, and giving him a wage that rivals what people that have spent time, money, and effort to acquire just because 'its unfair that he doesnt make enough to live a comfortable life like we do' is, in fact, unfair to those that have excelled or out in the time and effort.
it would be just as unfair if I demanded to make 45 an hour because the 'ive league guy has a million dollar house so why cant I?'
People are not created equal, and people don't deserve to make a certain amount just 'because its uncivilized, dammit'.
Youre not bringing them up to a decent life, youre bringing all those that have worked their ass off down to the lower class with the dipshit that cant read a tape measure.
Yeah, I've draw an arbitrary line, I admit. A lean first world standard of living in exchange for 40 worked hours. You could just as easily draw the line just this side of starvation, or a living that the milkman in the 50s enjoyed. It seemed like as good a place as any. I don't believe that someone can have my arbitrarily set quality of life on 300/wk, however.
But from a purely practical perspective, I'm not convinced that raising the min wage is bad for those earning more. If your earnings stay the same in relation to living costs then you're no worse off, so why care. Some argue that a better off lower class would spur the economy to everyone's benefit. I'm not economist enough to do it, but there are countries where no one seems to be suffering ill effects of a more generous minimum wage, so I struggle to take seriously cut-n-dried economic opinions about dumbells sucking the place dry. If anything, it would get more people off welfare and out of quick dollar crime.
Who knows. Ask 3 economists, get 3 opinions. In the absence of a definitive answer, I'm inclined to lean toward "Be nice." See the kind of world you want to live in and don't do things that destroy it unless there's absolute proof they are necessary.
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First do you have any data at all to back up your claim?
I have plenty of data to show that the "poor" people in the US first have it much better than other "poor" people around the world. Also that they spend frivolously and make horrible life decisions.
P.S. a professional delivery man which is the the basic equivilent to a milk man today can actually make a good living.
No. Data schmata. No one can conclusively prove what the future holds if they increase the minimum wage. And it wouldn't happen in a vacuum, so whatever fate would eventuate, paradise or doom, no one could claim it was more than a causal factor and even that would end up debated.
What I fail to understand is: Do those who oppose the min wage raise feel they have something to lose? Or is it just a question of what min wage earners deserve in contrast to your earnings and perceived expenditure of effort?
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minimum wages.
when too many ppl cant afford to buy stuff anymore, you have a problem.
but just increasing it in an unproductive job will lead to price increase of the end product, and then that product might lose against another product in competitiveness.
theres leeway, but must tread carefuly.
giving everyone 1milion usd in cash right now, could work out, under some rules, but ofc in reality it would never work bc the ppl are too dumb and selfish.but it could work.
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Thank God. An economist at last.
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There are laws of Economics which are as unalterable as the law of gravity.
This isn't even close to being true, though the "laws" of economics are indeed useful generalizations which tend to obtain.
For example, here's a case (http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-brilliant-marketing-cards-against-humanity-offers-5-more-black-friday-deal-and-sales-spike-2013-12) where the "law" of demand was violated -- a games company initiated an ironic sale in which their product was more expensive than its ordinary price; people got the joke and decided to reward the company with an increase in quantity demanded.
Useful generalizations, nothing more.
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now that i made the point from right wing perspective,let me make the other one :D
why is it good to have regulations and checks and balances and some rules.
bc the ppl are assholes.
you can open a pizza resterant and make the best pizzs in the world and make the price "pay as much or little you fel its worth"
someone here was naive enough to try that and very soon failed haha
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Yeah, I've draw an arbitrary line, I admit. A lean first world standard of living in exchange for 40 worked hours. You could just as easily draw the line just this side of starvation, or a living that the milkman in the 50s enjoyed. It seemed like as good a place as any. I don't believe that someone can have my arbitrarily set quality of life on 300/wk, however.
But from a purely practical perspective, I'm not convinced that raising the min wage is bad for those earning more. If your earnings stay the same in relation to living costs then you're no worse off, so why care. Some argue that a better off lower class would spur the economy to everyone's benefit. I'm not economist enough to do it, but there are countries where no one seems to be suffering ill effects of a more generous minimum wage, so I struggle to take seriously cut-n-dried economic opinions about dumbells sucking the place dry. If anything, it would get more people off welfare and out of quick dollar crime.
Who knows. Ask 3 economists, get 3 opinions. In the absence of a definitive answer, I'm inclined to lean toward "Be nice." See the kind of world you want to live in and don't do things that destroy it unless there's absolute proof they are necessary.
yeah, I agree for the most part. Its just, where do we draw the line? I myself think 10 dollars is the absolute max for 99% of the US (maybe more in the LA area), obviously less in the mid west or places like Texas.
I personally feel that it should be left up to the individual states to decide and not for the Fed to try and draw an arbitrary line in the sand for the whole country, as different states have different costs of living and 10/hour would be a nice living in indiana, or abject poverty in SoCal.
I also dont feel a person necessarily deserves a wage just because he is present for 40 hours/week. I remember working fast food and those emoyees literally did just enough to not get fired, they literally were not worth the minimum wage +1.50 they were making. They got that simply because you got mandatory raises every 6 months and yet they werent worth pissing on to out out the fire.
this was at an arbys. My personal experience is why I dont believ.everyone is owed a decent living wage just because they roll out of bed.
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This isn't even close to being true, though the "laws" of economics are indeed useful generalizations which tend to obtain.
For example, here's a case (http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-brilliant-marketing-cards-against-humanity-offers-5-more-black-friday-deal-and-sales-spike-2013-12) where the "law" of demand was violated -- a games company initiated an ironic sale in which their product was more expensive than its ordinary price; people got the joke and decided to reward the company with an increase in quantity demanded.
Useful generalizations, nothing more.
Your taking a silly one off exception and presenting as a rule.
Do you think this idea would work in the long run? If so, why haven't any big retail chains implemented it?
There were three NFL teams that hadn't sold all their playoff tickets for this weeks' games. Do you think this was because not enough people wanted to go to the games or because of the price?
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Your taking a silly one off exception and presenting as a rule.
My sole point is that the "laws" of economics aren't exceptionless generalizations like the laws of physics, as you implied. This is even more true of the generalizations that economists make about complex phenomena that result from the interactions of the various "laws," like the effects of raising the minimum wage (the literature presents a mixed message).
In any case, I'm sure that we agree that there are better means available for helping the working poor, like the earned income tax credit.
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yeah, I agree for the most part. Its just, where do we draw the line? I myself think 10 dollars is the absolute max for 99% of the US (maybe more in the LA area), obviously less in the mid west or places like Texas.
I personally feel that it should be left up to the individual states to decide and not for the Fed to try and draw an arbitrary line in the sand for the whole country, as different states have different costs of living and 10/hour would be a nice living in indiana, or abject poverty in SoCal.
I also dont feel a person necessarily deserves a wage just because he is present for 40 hours/week. I remember working fast food and those emoyees literally did just enough to not get fired, they literally were not worth the minimum wage +1.50 they were making. They got that simply because you got mandatory raises every 6 months and yet they werent worth pissing on to out out the fire.
this was at an arbys. My personal experience is why I dont believ.everyone is owed a decent living wage just because they roll out of bed.
I can see that. There's always going to be some hopeless fucks but most of us grow out of it eventually, I think.
I've made it my New Years Resolution!
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No. Data schmata. No one can conclusively prove what the future holds if they increase the minimum wage. And it wouldn't happen in a vacuum, so whatever fate would eventuate, paradise or doom, no one could claim it was more than a causal factor and even that would end up debated.
What I fail to understand is: Do those who oppose the min wage raise feel they have something to lose? Or is it just a question of what min wage earners deserve in contrast to your earnings and perceived expenditure of effort?
I meant data in regards to your claim that 50 years ago a milk man could send his kids to college and have his wife stay home....
What I fail to understand is why people have such low expectations of others. The vast majority of thse people by your own admission have the ability to do better with their lives yet you would rather they get paid more to push buttons on a cash register and clean tables than become a more productive member of society?
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My sole point is that the "laws" of economics aren't exceptionless generalizations like the laws of physics, as you implied. This is even more true of the generalizations that economists make about complex phenomena that result from the interactions of the various "laws," like the effects of raising the minimum wage (the literature presents a mixed message).
In any case, I'm sure that we agree that there are better means available for helping the working poor, like the earned income tax credit.
You are correct in that you can't calculate the exact effects of a price increase. For instance, if Apple were to increase the price of the Ipad by $100, I can't tell you the exact effect it would have on sales. However, I can state that it is an absolute certainty that if Apple were to continually raise its price, it would eventually affect demand.
Same holds true for min wage. Keep raising it, demand for labor eventually drops. The question that usually comes up in this argument is: Why not raise it to $20 or $25 an hour. Everything would be great, right?
I believe that people who support min wage increases are generally well intentioned they just dont have the economic chops to get why it doesn't work.
And, yes anything that takes money out of the hands of sleazy pols is a good thing.
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Plenty of information on the effects of minimum wage laws
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/09/thomas-sowell/minimum-wage-madness/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/11/dom-armentano/the-minimum-wage-outlaws-jobs/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/09/dom-armentano/minimum-wage-maximum-nonsense/
https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/outlawing-jobs-the-minimum-wage-oncemore/
There is plenty of evidence to refute the claims for increasing the minimum wage. These are just a few of many articles on the subject here:
http://www.google.com/custom?q=minimum+wage]&cof=LW%3A500%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2Fwp-content%2Fthemes%2Flrc%2Fimages%2Fgoogle-search-header.png&domains=www.lewrockwell.com&sitesearch=www.lewrockwell.com
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I meant data in regards to your claim that 50 years ago a milk man could send his kids to college and have his wife stay home....
What I fail to understand is why people have such low expectations of others. The vast majority of thse people by your own admission have the ability to do better with their lives yet you would rather they get paid more to push buttons on a cash register and clean tables than become a more productive member of society?
I know but it doesn't matter. You'd declare the milkman to be a non-representative example of 1950s era milkmen as a whole, or an aberation due to post-war prosperity, or something, and I'd counterclaim that there's nothing wrong with him and what have you got against milkmen anyway. You know how these things go. We'll agree he was the delivery driver of his era for now and leave the Great Milkman Debate for another day.
If they push buttons or clean tables for 40 hrs a week then they should be paid enough to pay their bills (in b4 spending habits). No, they don't already. Someone who does more, whether in quantity or quality, should make more. Agree. Disagree. It's out of my hands.
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If people at Burger King start getting paid $15.00 an hour, you know where Vince Goodrum is going to be working. Do you really want him and Queen Vissy flipping your burgers? :-\ :-\
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I know but it doesn't matter. You'd declare the milkman to be a non-representative example of 1950s era milkmen as a whole, or an aberation due to post-war prosperity, or something, and I'd counterclaim that there's nothing wrong with him and what have you got against milkmen anyway. You know how these things go. We'll agree he was the delivery driver of his era for now and leave the Great Milkman Debate for another day.
If they push buttons or clean tables for 40 hrs a week then they should be paid enough to pay their bills (in b4 spending habits). No, they don't already. Someone who does more, whether in quantity or quality, should make more. Agree. Disagree. It's out of my hands.
so basicially NO, you dont have any facts to support your argument and dispute the facts against your argument.
If you said from the beginning that your argument was based solely on feelings, this could have been all avoided....
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If they push buttons or clean tables for 40 hrs a week then they should be paid enough to pay their bills (in b4 spending habits). No, they don't already.
and again no facts to support this...or refute the fact that a single person working full time making minimum wage is above the poverty line.
I would love to live in fantasy world too where feelings are all that matter. Unfortunately I live in the real world where facts show your ignorance for what it is, an emotion based argument.
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so basicially NO, you dont have any facts to support your argument and dispute the facts against your argument.
If you said from the beginning that your argument was based solely on feelings, this could have been all avoided....
Your position is similarly based on emotion. You don't want people to get something you don't feel they deserve.
I want what I feel is right. You want what you feel is fair. Neither of us have any indisputable facts that demonstrate our position is the correct one. That's because there isn't a correct one. It's simply a matter of belief. We're 2 guys with differing opinions. It happens all the time.
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I'm not sure if now would be a good time to mention that the min wage in aus is something like $20/hr for an 18yo.
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Your position is similarly based on emotion. You don't want people to get something you don't feel they deserve.
I want what I feel is right. You want what you feel is fair. Neither of us have any indisputable facts that demonstrate our position is the correct one. That's because there isn't a correct one. It's simply a matter of belief. We're 2 guys with differing opinions. It happens all the time.
LOL no no no sir, I dont think people should be paid more than they are worth. I understand that a very very VERY SMALL % of the population does need to be taken care of and completely support that. I do not support giving people more than they are worth if THEY CHOOSE to not better themself.
My stance is not emotion based at all but nice try there ;)
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Perhaps Warren will turn out to be more than just another politician and have some empathy for those having a tough time.
Mr Obama was pretty much Bush with a tan and some kinky hair.
And the weak arguments AGAINST raising the minimum wage are beyond pathetic, these guys sound like wall street "experts" trying to explain their convoluted finical products. ::)
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I know but it doesn't matter. You'd declare the milkman to be a non-representative example of 1950s era milkmen as a whole, or an aberation due to post-war prosperity, or something, and I'd counterclaim that there's nothing wrong with him and what have you got against milkmen anyway. You know how these things go. We'll agree he was the delivery driver of his era for now and leave the Great Milkman Debate for another day.
The fringe benefits for him were off the chain though.
From what I understand he was tapping everything in sight.
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The fringe benefits for him were off the chain though.
From what I understand he was tapping everything in sight.
hahahaha...nice ;D ;D
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The fringe benefits for him were off the chain though.
From what I understand he was tapping everything in sight.
hahah touche sir
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That's what I'm trying to accomplish with the minimum wage increase. The increase would apply to the territory of the USA, including Hawaii. I can't believe I have to point this out to you...
I'm not a liberal.
Like I said, off the mark.
I bet the average IQ in the mainland went down 50 points once you set foot in it.
Should've stayed in Hawaii picking pineapples kanapapiki.
Of course you are a liberal. Doesn't matter what you claim. You hold the positions associated with the left. Liberals from some reason are often ashamed to admit they are liberal whereas conservative, though demonized by the majority, have no problem affirming where their values lie. Let me guess, you call yourself an independent yet there are very few actual positions associated with the right that you subscribe to.
Nonetheless you betray yourself by simply the way you debate. Your arguments are emotion based so you don't engage in rational exchange but simply emote. I disagree with the minimum wage and present my reason for doing so. The belief in economic freedom and that in any transaction the only people who should be making the decisions are the buyer and the seller. This applies whether i you are buying or selling a pair of shoes, a loaf of bread or someone's labor. You take personal offense to this and the insults and ad hominem attacks soon surface. Whereas I believe that your position is simply wrong I in no way consider it a statement on your humanity or decency. You believe that I am not only wrong but a bad and evil person and have ill will towards me. That I want people to suffer and starve to death. Just look at your angry and vindictive avi comment" "conservatives should be hung by the balls." I don't want hang any liberal hung by the balls. I just don't want them making social policy.
Good day, sir.
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The fringe benefits for him were off the chain though.
From what I understand he was tapping everything in sight.
You cheeky bugger.
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111207154309/thebondsite/images/7/76/Necros.jpg)
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Your position is similarly based on emotion. You don't want people to get something you don't feel they deserve.
I want what I feel is right. You want what you feel is fair. Neither of us have any indisputable facts that demonstrate our position is the correct one. That's because there isn't a correct one. It's simply a matter of belief. We're 2 guys with differing opinions. It happens all the time.
There's a distinction to be made between one's ideology, which is perhaps emotional base, and how one defends and justifies that ideology. For instance, believing in economic freedom, that people should be allowed to make decisions for themselves and not have an outside third party busybody interfering in those decisions may be emotionally based. But why you think that is better for society should be based on reason and logic. And conversely, it may be emotionally base that one believes that it should be the government that should determine the price of a good or service, in this case labor, then objective arguments should be presented as to why it would be better and the impact it will have on the market.
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So you could buy Hawaii? Why don't you do that and house all the people you claim to care so much about?
You're quite full of yourself, aren't you? But that's typical of Liberals. They are better and smarter than everyone else and knows what's best for them. Even how much one should pay and be paid.
Wake up Pellius, the guy is trolling you. You're a bit slow today.
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Hillbilly is brutalizing the tiny minds.
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LOL no no no sir, I dont think people should be paid more than they are worth. I understand that a very very VERY SMALL % of the population does need to be taken care of and completely support that. I do not support giving people more than they are worth if THEY CHOOSE to not better themself.
My stance is not emotion based at all but nice try there ;)
You don't think people should be paid more than YOU THINK they are worth.
Who are you to define their worth?
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hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick
they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?
they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc
give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right? all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order? what the fuck are those guys doing? playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders
by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick
E
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hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick
they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?
they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc
give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right? all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order? what the fuck are those guys doing? playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders
by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick
E
good one... ;D
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hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick
they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?
they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc
give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right? all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order? what the fuck are those guys doing? playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders
by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick
E
Haha... good one but sportsmanship rules =/= business rules
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To have the very best system, no matter what, you have to continuously pick up the rear (no homo!!!!) ;D
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Only as strong as the weakest link
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You don't think people should be paid more than YOU THINK they are worth.
Who are you to define their worth?
nope my asian management investing guru friend ::)
I dont think ppl should be paid more than what they are worth to their employer plain and simple. If you think youre worth more then go get another job. If you cant, GUESS WHAT???
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hey tony i don't think the texans deserve the number 1 overall pick
they have nobody but themselves to blame for their failures, they came into the season as a super bowl favorite and lost 14 straight, why do they deserve help by getting the first pick?
they have the defensive player of the year in jj watt, solid qb in schaub, andre johnson future hall of famer and they stock piled high picks for years and play in a shit division etc
give me one good reason they deserve the first pick which is a HANDOUT, they failed because they are losers and failures right? all those high draft picks including drafting david carr number 1 overall and they still can't get their shit in order? what the fuck are those guys doing? playing video games instead of watching game film, playing madden doesn't count you fucking free loaders
by your logic they deserve to work their way up from the bottom without any help, they are entitled to NOTHING, they should forfeit the pick
E
LMFAO I like the comparison but its stupid and ignorant.
First and foremost SCHAUB IS NOT A SOLID QB!!! you know it, I fucking know it, anyone who watches football knows it. Schaub is as solid a QB as Rapelisburger is an innocent misunderstood playboy.
Andre is a future hall of famer but you know and I know he is over the hill, he is still a great receiver but he is past his prime.
Finally the NFL as a business thrives on competition and b/c of that it must keep at least some parity between teams meaning that they have incentive to give shitty teams like the Texans a chance to improve themselves or they lose fan base and ultimately revenue.
You can think of the number one draft pick of the minimum wage and I dont see you arguing for giving us the number 1 and 2 pick...
As I have stated many times I agree that we should provide for people who cannot provide for themselves. We already provide a living wage to people who work full time at minimum wage.
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nope my asian management investing guru friend ::)
I dont think ppl should be paid more than what they are worth to their employer plain and simple. If you think youre worth more then go get another job. If you cant, GUESS WHAT???
So what you are saying is that the market can't make a wrong decision and that all prices generated by the market must therefore be 'right'?
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You don't think people should be paid more than YOU THINK they are worth.
Who are you to define their worth?
The buying determines the worth or more accurately, the value, of a particular good or service. When I read about how some painting went for a couple of million dollars it tells me not what you or I think it's worth or value is but that there is obviously someone out there that would be willing to pay that amount whereas you or I wouldn't give $50 for what many consider a rare work of art.
So I am the one to determine the worth of anything and everything in world by the dollars I am willing to trade for it. You are too.
As the saying goes, "However pays the piper calls the tune."
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Of course you are a liberal. Doesn't matter what you claim.
It's a recurring theme with your kind... When you don't understand something, which happens often, you go full retard and refuse to believe what the other person is telling you. If I were a classical liberal, which is what you are referring to, I would have no problem admitting to that. I can't really find any reason not to.
I am an anarchist. I don't believe in government, leaders, representatives, alpha males, et cetera. I understand that we are communal beings, always have been (even when we were monkeys,) and any deviation from the communal group context (cities, states, countries, economic zones, et cetera) is doomed to fail. Not because they are bad socio-economic systems, but because when they are applied to human beings they do fail eventually.
NOW, I do live in a country based on laws and contracts, and I do understand that the majority of people do want to live in this system, so I have no choice but to accept it and adapt, which I've done (kind of like Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes). But this does not take away from me wanting to do what I would do if I were to live in a government-less communal environment, like helping the poor, elderly, the incapacitated, giving kids a free education, et cetera.
You hold the positions associated with the left.
No, I actually am more right than you think. You'd be surprised how issues I actually agree with the Tea Baggers on.
Liberals from some reason are often ashamed to admit they are liberal whereas conservative, though demonized by the majority, have no problem affirming where their values lie. Let me guess, you call yourself an independent yet there are very few actual positions associated with the right that you subscribe to.
See previous response.
Nonetheless you betray yourself by simply the way you debate. Your arguments are emotion based so you don't engage in rational exchange but simply emote. I disagree with the minimum wage and present my reason for doing so. The belief in economic freedom and that in any transaction the only people who should be making the decisions are the buyer and the seller. This applies whether i you are buying or selling a pair of shoes, a loaf of bread or someone's labor. You take personal offense to this and the insults and ad hominem attacks soon surface. Whereas I believe that your position is simply wrong I in no way consider it a statement on your humanity or decency. You believe that I am not only wrong but a bad and evil person and have ill will towards me. That I want people to suffer and starve to death. Just look at your angry and vindictive avi comment" "conservatives should be hung by the balls." I don't want hang any liberal hung by the balls. I just don't want them making social policy.
Au contraire mon ami, I've actually given you arguments to respond to. The main problem is that they went right through you because you really are not into reading. Please do not take it as an insult. To me an insult is to call someone an idiot even though the person was not acting in an idiotic manner. Whenever you call someone something based on their actions, e.g. "stupid" to someone acting really stupidly, it's an observation, not an insult.
I do not believe in "economic freedom" or "the market". So I really do not know if you want to meet me in the middle because it's a big gap.
And I actually am balls-deep in "the market", not because I think it's a great place to make money, which is to some, but because I see it as a casino and I go in knowing what my odds are. I made a lot of money thinking this way.
Cheers.
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It's a recurring theme with your kind... When you don't understand something, which happens often, you go full retard and refuse to believe what the other person is telling you. If I were a classical liberal, which is what you are referring to, I would have no problem admitting to that. I can't really find any reason not to.
I am an anarchist. I don't believe in government, leaders, representatives, alpha males, et cetera. I understand that we are communal beings, always have been (even when we were monkeys,) and any deviation from the communal group context (cities, states, countries, economic zones, et cetera) is doomed to fail. Not because they are bad socio-economic systems, but because when they are applied to human beings they do fail eventually.
NOW, I do live in a country based on laws and contracts, and I do understand that the majority of people do want to live in this system, so I have no choice but to accept it and adapt, which I've done (kind of like Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes). But this does not take away from me wanting to do what I would do if I were to live in a government-less communal environment, like helping the poor, elderly, the incapacitated, giving kids a free education, et cetera.
No, I actually am more right than you think. You'd be surprised how issues I actually agree with the Tea Baggers on.
See previous response.
Au contraire mon ami, I've actually given you arguments to respond to. The main problem is that they went right through you because you really are not into reading. Please do not take it as an insult. To me an insult is to call someone an idiot even though the person was not acting in an idiotic manner. Whenever you call someone something based on their actions, e.g. "stupid" to someone acting really stupidly, it's an observation, not an insult.
I do not believe in "economic freedom" or "the market". So I really do not know if you want to meet me in the middle because it's a big gap.
And I actually am balls-deep in "the market", not because I think it's a great place to make money, which is to some, but because I see it as a casino and I go in knowing what my odds are. I made a lot of money thinking this way.
Cheers.
You claim to be an anarchist (no government) yet you support the government interference and want them to determine how much labor should be bought or sold for. I'm simply pointing out the implications and contradictions of what you, yourself, are saying. Again, you can call yourself anything you want. But the positions you support speaks for itself.
I believe in economic freedom and believe it is the buyer and seller that should determine prices for goods and service. And having given arguments as to why I think this is better. You don't believe in economic freedom and believe the government, a third party outside observer that incurs none of the costs or risks inherent in any transaction, should make these decision and in the same breath claim you are an anarchist which abhors all governments. Socialism, which is what this is, has been tried and failed throughout history. It's not simply by chance that America grew to be the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world though this is crumbling due to the ever expanding government and the control they have on our lives.
The bigger the government the smaller the people.
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So what you are saying is that the market can't make a wrong decision and that all prices generated by the market must therefore be 'right'?
Define wrong....
Supply, demand and market price are all functions of mathematic equations so while you may feel they are "wrong" if allowed to work freely they will come to an equilibrium.
Now you can alter the outcome by enforcing floors or ceilings and that could be interpreted as wrong but if that's what you mean forcing someone to pay a certain wage is wrong
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LMFAO I like the comparison but its stupid and ignorant.
First and foremost SCHAUB IS NOT A SOLID QB!!! you know it, I fucking know it, anyone who watches football knows it. Schaub is as solid a QB as Rapelisburger is an innocent misunderstood playboy.
Andre is a future hall of famer but you know and I know he is over the hill, he is still a great receiver but he is past his prime.
Finally the NFL as a business thrives on competition and b/c of that it must keep at least some parity between teams meaning that they have incentive to give shitty teams like the Texans a chance to improve themselves or they lose fan base and ultimately revenue.
You can think of the number one draft pick of the minimum wage and I dont see you arguing for giving us the number 1 and 2 pick...
As I have stated many times I agree that we should provide for people who cannot provide for themselves. We already provide a living wage to people who work full time at minimum wage.
do the fast food workers really get 40 hours a week?
another thing i forgot to mention was drafting mario williams 1st overall, he was very good then they let him go to buffalo
this is will be the 3rd time they had the number 1 pick in 12 years of existence and they have had numerous top 10 picks, why can't they get their shit in order?
i'm not sold on teddy bridgewater or clowney
E
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do the fast food workers really get 40 hours a week?
another thing i forgot to mention was drafting mario williams 1st overall, he was very good then they let him go to buffalo
this is will be the 3rd time they had the number 1 pick in 12 years of existence and they have had numerous top 10 picks, why can't they get their shit in order?
i'm not sold on teddy bridgewater or clowney
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cost benefit my friend, williams was a good player when healthy but he pulled in what 95 million or something outrageous like that?
We have plenty of defensive stars and our cap issues are going to be horrible in a few years.
I hear a lot of talk about clowney but I just dont think we need him. We have watt, mercilus, reed who can play end so unless they feel he can transition to a linebacker I dont think we take him.
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Slapper getting royally exposed for the snobbish fool that he is.
"Anarchist"..... Oh brother ::)
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You claim to be an anarchist
I am not claiming anything, I am an anarchist.
(no government) yet you support the government interference and want them to determine how much labor should be bought or sold for. I'm simply pointing out the implications and contradictions of what you, yourself, are saying. Again, you can call yourself anything you want. But the positions you support speaks for itself.
Not at all. In order to end poverty or wage-slave labor I could care less whether it's the state, local or city government, the military or the Nuns of Our Lady Mary who end poverty. I understand the majority of Americans want to live in this law-based system and understand that in order to get things changed you have to negotiate with the entities that enforce contracts, namely the government. I don't like it. The same way I wouldn't like it if I had to negotiate a wage increase with the Gambino family or the Black Panthers. It's a necessary evil if you will, under the circumstances, because ending poverty is the goal.
I believe in economic freedom and believe it is the buyer and seller that should determine prices for goods and service. And having given arguments as to why I think this is better. You don't believe in economic freedom and believe the government, a third party outside observer that incurs none of the costs or risks inherent in any transaction, should make these decision and in the same breath claim you are an anarchist which abhors all governments.
Look at my previous response. ::)
Socialism, which is what this is, has been tried and failed throughout history. It's not simply by chance that America grew to be the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world though this is crumbling due to the ever expanding government and the control they have on our lives.
Look, whatever your issues are with the government, it's between you and them.
The bigger the government the smaller the people.
That is actually something I agree with.
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Define wrong....
Supply, demand and market price are all functions of mathematic equations so while you may feel they are "wrong" if allowed to work freely they will come to an equilibrium.
Now you can alter the outcome by enforcing floors or ceilings and that could be interpreted as wrong but if that's what you mean forcing someone to pay a certain wage is wrong
By wrong - I mean localised supply and demand setting wages that are a detriment to society as a whole.
I don't just mean from a morality perspective either.
I'm talking about added burden in terms of benefits, healthcare, crime costs that the rest of society has to bear because of wages below the poverty line.
Also from the perspective that lower paid people spend a much higher percentage of their disposable income. Raise the minimums to an extent and you will have a net positive effect on the economy. There is obviously a balance there but the localized supply and demand picture is not the only factor to consider.
BTW - I'm one of the top 50 companies on Investimonials now out of 10,294 companies. What do you reckon - top 20 in 12 months?
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By wrong - I mean localised supply and demand setting wages that are a detriment to society as a whole.
I don't just mean from a morality perspective either.
I'm talking about added burden in terms of benefits, healthcare, crime costs that the rest of society has to bear because of wages below the poverty line.
Also from the perspective that lower paid people spend a much higher percentage of their disposable income. Raise the minimums to an extent and you will have a net positive effect on the economy. There is obviously a balance there but the localized supply and demand picture is not the only factor to consider.
BTW - I'm one of the top 50 companies on Investimonials now out of 10,294 companies. What do you reckon - top 20 in 12 months?
one could argue that supporting these individuals is bad for the economy as well, you see your argument is based on feelings. If you look at it from a purely economic stand point if we quit paying people to fuck up and not face the consequences sooner or later the amount of fuck ups will diminish. If we dont impose a minimum wage sooner or later people will leave, the cost of living will diminish and the wages will eventually rise.
Now you will undoubtedly take a step back to your morality point in which your stance is based on that you feel people should get paid enough to make a decent living b/c its the right thing to do. Even though you cant say what dollar amount that is, how many fuck ups they are allowed(kids, arrests etc).
lol wtf is investimonials?
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one could argue that supporting these individuals is bad for the economy as well, you see your argument is based on feelings. If you look at it from a purely economic stand point if we quit paying people to fuck up and not face the consequences sooner or later the amount of fuck ups will diminish. If we dont impose a minimum wage sooner or later people will leave, the cost of living will diminish and the wages will eventually rise.
So - let me get this right. You consider someone on minimum wage to be a fuck up?
Surely you understand that we need people to do menial jobs. If no-one was a 'fuck up' in your words - those jobs would still exist and we would still need people to perform them.
And you say my opinion is based on feelings, yet you make a wide sweeping statement that people on low wages are 'fuck ups'?
Now you will undoubtedly take a step back to your morality point in which your stance is based on that you feel people should get paid enough to make a decent living b/c its the right thing to do. Even though you cant say what dollar amount that is, how many fuck ups they are allowed(kids, arrests etc).
No need - you have pretty much stated that these people are bad anyway. You won't consider ther wider economical benefits of a better minimum wage as you straight up see yourself as better than these people and more worthy.
There would be no point arguing the case with someone who is so clearly bigoted.
lol wtf is investimonials?
You'll figure it out.
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So - let me get this right. You consider someone on minimum wage to be a fuck up?
If they are trying to make a living on it...YES
If it is a high school/college student or some other young person just entering the work force...NO
Surely you understand that we need people to do menial jobs. If no-one was a 'fuck up' in your words - those jobs would still exist and we would still need people to perform them.
And you say my opinion is based on feelings, yet you make a wide sweeping statement that people on low wages are 'fuck ups'?
sorry bro the majority of people on minimum wage are below 25 as it is.
Data backs up the fact that those "poor" people you like to champion for spend frivolously on things like video games, eating out, cable tv etc.
Data also backs ups the fact that the majority of people on welfare are single mothers under 30 with 2+ kids with at most a high school diploma.
Im not making this shit up, these are FUCKING FACTS!!!
No need - you have pretty much stated that these people are bad anyway. You won't consider ther wider economical benefits of a better minimum wage as you straight up see yourself as better than these people and more worthy.
your argument is that we need to raise the minimum wage b/c it doesnt provide a living wage. You dont define "living wage", dont take into account the majority of those working for minimum wage are young people just entering the work force, ignore the fact that a single person working full time making minimum wage is above the poverty line.
Oh yea and you openly admit you have no facts to back up your ASSinine ASSumptions...::)
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Clarify how it "disrupts the price of work".
Minimum wage is simply an anti-capitalist concept - you will have a hard time building wealth on min wage and in America today ANYONE can build wealth if they have passion and are willing to work as hard as it takes
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Not at all. In order to end poverty or wage-slave labor I could care less whether it's the state, local or city government, the military or the Nuns of Our Lady Mary who end poverty. I understand the majority of Americans want to live in this law-based system and understand that in order to get things changed you have to negotiate with the entities that enforce contracts, namely the government. I don't like it. The same way I wouldn't like it if I had to negotiate a wage increase with the Gambino family or the Black Panthers. It's a necessary evil if you will, under the circumstances, because ending poverty is the goal.
What other alternative is there when trading goods and services? Whether it's with money or a barter system people are not going to get something for nothing. In the absence of coercion where people simply get what they want by force, negotiation is inevitable. You bargain and make mutually agreed upon deals. And there's a huge different between negotiating with Microsoft than with the Gambino family. Huge difference.
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Minimum wage is simply an anti-capitalist concept - you will have a hard time building wealth on min wage and in America today ANYONE can build wealth if they have passion and are willing to work as hard as it takes
People seem to totally neglect, ignore or are simply unaware of the concept of income mobility. People move through the economic spectrum. Earning more income as experience and job skills increase. The percentage of people working minimum wage jobs over the course of a few years may remain the same but this in no way implies that it is the SAME people working those job. Some move on, others move in as they enter the labor force. And the same applies to the rich. Someone may be rich this year but middle class or even poor several years later.