Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Van_Bilderass on April 04, 2013, 01:36:51 PM
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The wonderful world of the supplement industry :D
http://patrickarnoldblog.com/craziness-over-craze/
"Well, in early February that suspicion reached a fever pitch when federal police in Australia announced that Craze (which has been a popular import there) was found to contain a methamphetamine analog. It appears from various sources that the analog they were referring to is N-alpha-diethyl-benzeneethanamine."
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who is this douche bag trying to pass off as Patrick Schwarzenegger
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Nothing new that these PWOs contain methamphetamine analogs. DMAA was one as well I thought? Hell of a training boost.
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Nothing new that these PWOs contain methamphetamine analogs. DMAA was one as well I thought? Hell of a training boost.
I'm not a chemist but I don't think DMAA is a meth analog.
The real problem from my point of view is the misbranding. I'd rather know what I was taking.
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I'm not a chemist but I don't think DMAA is a meth analog.
The real problem from my point of view is the misbranding. I'd rather know what I was taking.
I dunno, thought I read that, that's why they discontinued it in the states.
Yeah, shady supp industry.
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I knew it from the start.
It doesn't take a scientific experiment to prove to me how similar the effects of the two are.
Just that craze doesnt last no where near as long
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Yeah, I believe this--just like I believe that creatine causes cancer and that ephedra killed Steve Bechler.
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Yeah, I believe this--just like I believe that creatine causes cancer and that ephedra killed Steve Bechler.
Where's the similarity?
This isn't about health issues.
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Where's the similarity?
This isn't about health issues.
the crash can get terrible at times.
I think what is bad about this its not really "active" per say, its more pro drug with a substance that keeps it in liver longer.. so how well it will work depends on what you ate and how your body chemistry is that time of the day.
I remember I took it once and wanted to kill my self after the work out, Like literally just wanted to end it then and there. Come down is not worth the come up. IME.
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Where's the similarity?
This isn't about health issues.
But I think it is about hasty reporting on the part of its perpetrators. Someone posted an article or study over at BB.com about how Craze was free of banned substances. The rumors seemed to have been started by Patrick Arnold-esque trolls who didn't like the competition.
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But I think it is about hasty reporting on the part of its perpetrators. Someone posted an article or study over at BB.com about how Craze was free of banned substances. The rumors seemed to have been started by Patrick Arnold-esque trolls who didn't like the competition.
If it's true that Australia stopped all imports then it's not a rumor.
If it's true that they put in a previously unknown designer drug, a meth analogue, in the product,
AND put a compound with the same molecular weight on the label to fool testers, then that is shady
indeed.
This company put out Superdrol first. The owner did time for selling DNP to a girl who died. So this
stuff isn't beyond them at all IMO. We'll see.
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If it's true that Australia stopped all imports then it's not a rumor.
If it's true that they put in a previously unknown designer drug, a meth analogue, in the product,
AND put a compound with the same molecular weight on the label to fool testers, then that is shady
indeed.
This company put out Superdrol first. The owner did time for selling DNP to a girl who died. So this
stuff isn't beyond them at all IMO. We'll see.
I thought Anabolic Xtreme put out SD first. Craze is made by Driven Sports.
Also, I've tried Gaspari's Detonate and got the same effect that I get from Craze. It's the Dendrobium that causes the mental boost, not any kind of Angeldust derivative.
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They put meth in the product. It must work pretty good. :D
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I thought Anabolic Xtreme put out SD first. Craze is made by Driven Sports.
Also, I've tried Gaspari's Detonate and got the same effect that I get from Craze. It's the Dendrobium that causes the mental boost, not any kind of Angeldust derivative.
DS = Matt Cahill (Sledge is his well known nom de plume), who was one(if not the first) of the first to import bulk superdrol powder before it was even a known supplement.
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The Swedish National Lab for Forensic Science just found the same meth analogue in the product.
I knew it was more than a rumor.
http://patrickarnoldblog.com/more-craziness-over-craze/
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Haha wow, eh. Designer meth! Awesome... I used to use Jacked and it was awesome, but I knew there was something funky in there.
Bought some DMAA capsules to see if that was in fact the distinguishing ingredient, and it was. Used to take them before cleaning my house, would blast electronic dance music and rip through everything so fast. But after reading the emerging health reports I tossed it in a cupboard and never used it again. Way too sketchy. At least traditional drugs have studies and familiarity. These designer drugs are something we know nothing about. It's crazy how long it takes to catch these things.
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The Swedish National Lab for Forensic Science just found the same meth analogue in the product.
I knew it was more than a rumor.
http://patrickarnoldblog.com/more-craziness-over-craze/
Patrick Arnold is highlighting this bullsh*t. Shocker!
As I mentioned in my Dendrobium rundown thread in the supplement section, I get similar mental boosts from Detonate and Game Day that I get from Craze. Are all of these companies just happening to be spiking their products with the same illegal substance? Doubtful.
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Patrick Arnold is highlighting this bullsh*t. Shocker!
As I mentioned in my Dendrobium rundown thread in the supplement section, I get similar mental boosts from Detonate and Game Day that I get from Craze. Are all of these companies just happening to be spiking their products with the same illegal substance? Doubtful.
You think two government agencies got it wrong?
I'm in Sweden and saw this shit on tv yesterday.
I don't know what the other companies put in their
products ... doesn't change anything. At least this product
is tainted.
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The swedish companys that sell craze has stopped with it
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In the blog Patrick Arnold says that the "fake" or dummy compound with the same molecular weight as the meth analog is N-N-diethyl-benzeneethanamine, and it's listed on the label. However all the labels I've seen online at US retailers has N-N-diethyl-B-phenylethylamine listed, is there a different version with the meth analog for export out of the US and then a "safe" version without the methamphetamine analog for the US market? Maybe the company is not so stupid after all and intentionally created a safe version for the US to avoid domestic prosecution?
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The company denies that the compound is in the
product at all, and that the tainted product is a fake.
However, the Swedish retailer ordered it directly from
DS.
I predict DS will blame China and it will be a lie.
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Dont know if its is in my mind but i bought craze 2 times with 6 months apart..the first was really good but the second was not
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Van Bilderass, I am well aware about the muscle profiling cases .. is it a hassle to procure and use gear in Sweden? How about prices?
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Dont know if its is in my mind but i bought craze 2 times with 6 months apart..the first was really good but the second was not
craze has been heavily faked in recent months, you probably spent your money on chinese drywall powder 2nd time around
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Van Bilderass, I am well aware about the muscle profiling cases .. is it a hassle to procure and use gear in Sweden? How about prices?
depends where you live ..like gothenburg they are raiding all the time. Other citys may have no raids at all at the gym
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craze has been heavily faked in recent months, you probably spent your money on chinese drywall powder 2nd time around
i fucking knew something was up. It was 1 month ago i ordered the last. Fellt just like a couple of cofein tabs only
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depends where you live ..like gothenburg they are raiding all the time. Other citys may have no raids at all at the gym
something is terribly wrong with gym raids
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something is terribly wrong with gym raids
oh thats not the worst part. They get clearence to search your antire house while you are detained at the police station after they raided the gym just because you where training there. In one razzia they took my friend who never done roids. He and the other was detained at the police station for 6 hours while the cops raided there homes. They didnt find shit and his test came back negative but after that his neighbours who only saw a gang of pigs raid his home started to look on him like his a criminal and they didnt let there kids play with his kids. Just because he trained and took care of himself.
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Van Bilderass, I am well aware about the muscle profiling cases .. is it a hassle to procure and use gear in Sweden? How about prices?
There's probably more gear than ever. The profiling
does nothing but mess up the lives of those profiled
and none of them stop the drugs either.
I don't know who exactly is pulling the strings making
desicions to spend money on this retardedness but
it seems like a priority.
As far as prices I haven't really conpared internationally but
steroids are pretty cheap in general. It's the gh that's the problem, can't
afford it. :'(
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Took some Cellucor C4 this morning instead of coffee. Instantly awake in 2 minutes like I did a line of coke.
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Craze-ing is Amazing! I feel there is something in there that they'll catch and then it will be just like original Jack3d, but I hope I have a decent stash before then
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Someone posted a study over at BB.com a few days ago that said that Craze was free of whatever "drug" Patrick Arnold and his gremlins were saying was in it.
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Patrick Arnold is an incredibly smart man. Have also heard great things about his cock size. (No homo)
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Someone posted a study over at BB.com a few days ago that said that Craze was free of whatever "drug" Patrick Arnold and his gremlins were saying was in it.
Post the study.
It wasn't Patrick saying it. He reported what Australian and Swedish government labs said.
Well, he did say later that he had seen the same peak on his equipment.
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Patrick Arnold is an incredibly smart man. Have also heard great things about his cock size. (No homo)
is he a jew?
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Post the study.
http://www.getds.com/20130614381/Blog/further-proof-that-crazer-does-not-contain-amphetamines (http://www.getds.com/20130614381/Blog/further-proof-that-crazer-does-not-contain-amphetamines)
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http://www.getds.com/20130614381/Blog/further-proof-that-crazer-does-not-contain-amphetamines (http://www.getds.com/20130614381/Blog/further-proof-that-crazer-does-not-contain-amphetamines)
That's a driven sports site.
I bought about 8 tubs from Amazon, it produced results very very similar to methamphetamine. I've taken adderall and meth in the past many times, if this isn't some sort of analog I would be shocked. I tried every tub, all had production dates within the last few months and all produced a similar effect.
Anyone else tried it? If you have amphetamine experience you would recognize it immediately.
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That's a driven sports site.
I bought about 8 tubs from Amazon, it produced results very very similar to methamphetamine. I've taken adderall and meth in the past many times, if this isn't some sort of analog I would be shocked. I tried every tub, all had production dates within the last few months and all produced a similar effect.
Anyone else tried it? If you have amphetamine experience you would recognize it immediately.
I get the same effect from Gaspari's Detonate that I get from Craze, albeit not as faster since Craze is a powder.
It's hard to imagine the makers of both somehow connecting telepathically to spike their products with the same kind of Angeldust. Maybe it really is just the PEA/Dendrobium combo that does it.
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Who the fuck needs that shit, just take some test and drink coffeine before workouts.
Oh brother @ all these "natural athletes" I know who tried every pre-workout bullshit with DMAA on earth or even are addicted to this shit. So much for "natural", it's rather "I'm too scared to inject myself with needles".
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Who the fuck needs that shit, just take some test and drink coffeine before workouts.
Oh brother @ all these "natural athletes" I know who tried every pre-workout bullshit with DMAA on earth or even are addicted to this shit. So much for "natural", it's rather "I'm too scared to inject myself with needles".
I don't mind them (I only buy whatever is the cheapest, $20 for 30 servings is a good price here) only because I get tired of coffee at times. I see them as just a powdered version of an energy drink. Nothing more. They will do nothing for your physique in the long run. Yet many ppl say you "gotta" have one in order to workout. and yes, they get addicted because they aren't used to lifting without being hyped up like they did a line of coke in the gym.
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I get the same effect from Gaspari's Detonate that I get from Craze, albeit not as faster since Craze is a powder.
It's hard to imagine the makers of both somehow connecting telepathically to spike their products with the same kind of Angeldust. Maybe it really is just the PEA/Dendrobium combo that does it.
There's supposedly yet another meth analogue in Detonate, something called eth-amphetamine.
If I were to guess this allegation is true also.
One thing I'm pretty sure of is that there's no plant material in any "dendrobium" product. It's just synthetics.
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There's supposedly yet another meth analogue in Detonate, something called eth-amphetamine.
If I were to guess this allegation is true also.
One thing I'm pretty sure of is that there's no plant material in any "dendrobium" product. It's just synthetics.
I just ordered a bottle, I'd be interested to see what it's like.
AMazing all this stuff is completely unregulated, they can get away with putting anything in these powders. It wouldn't be an issue but it's marketed to uninformed teenagers, plus it is quite criminal that they are intentionally mislabeling their product.
Craze: I read reports that the company claimed there were counterfeit product out there. That is a joke, have you ever heard of counterfeit supplements? I can't believe anyone would believe that. But the lesson in all of this is that Driven Sports can put whatever they want in the product, the FDA doesn't investigate, nothing happens.
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Craze found to contain meth analog. I will confirm tomorrow with signed documentation from the lab. Lab has comparable certification to the one DS used, they made a standard to compare against. and the product was purchased from a third party retailer. Sorry, no tin foil hats here http://www.thermolife.com/forum/post40935-344/
GAME OVER for FAT MATT CAHILL.
CRAZE Berry Lemonade Lot # 1211372 bought from independent store and shipped directly to the lab found to contain ETHamphetamines ...
Odd how this lot # is not among the “clean” samples allegedly sent to the lab by Matt Cahill...
The lab indicated there are approximately 8mg per gram.... which means if one serving of Craze is 5.8 grams you would be ingesting about 46.5 grams of ETHamphetamines..
In comparison I was told the Detonate that was tested contains approximately 24mg per capsule.
Matt Cahill sending “clean versions” to the lab is fooling no one... except maybe Anthony Connors (aka Anthony Roberts) BUT since he's already a fool, I guess he doesn't count.
I’m looking forward to see Matt Cahill back behind bars where he belongs ASAP.
Other “HOT” lot #’s coming soon!!
AS PROMISED:
Here are the lab results on the products tested based on a validated method... the test results were delivered to me at the end of the day as the lab closed so I didn't have a chance to get back to them and ask to have them put the nomenclature for "ETH" on the report but rest assured it will be updated by Monday at the latest.
In case there is any doubt the term "ETH" refers to:
ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine, N,alpha-diethylbenzeneethanamine or N,alpha-diethylphenethylamine which are all the same compound, recently termed ETHamphetamine or "ETH".
I have a proper chain of custody for each of the products tested and it will be produced to the necessary organizations if and when necessary.
All my statements regarding the contents of "ETH" in these products are based on the validity of these test results and the lab that preformed the analysis...
The lab was contracted to develop a standard for "ETH" and validated a test method for "ETH"...
This is a forensic lab that will stand behind their results in court.
GASPARI DETONATE (POSITIVE FOR "ETH"):
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/ETHAnalysisDetonateLot1302389.jpg)
DRIVEN SPORTS CRAZE(POSITIVE FOR "ETH"):
Craze Berry Lemonade Flavor - Lot# 1211372 - Expiration date (11/15)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/ETHAnalysisDSCrazyBerryLemonadeLot1211372.jpg)
DRIVEN SPORTS CRAZE(POSITIVE FOR "ETH"):
Craze Candy Grape Flavor - Lot# 1305127 -Expiration date (05/16)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/ETHAnalysis-DSCrazeCandyGrapeLot1305127.jpg)
DRIVEN SPORTS CRAZE(NEGATIVE FOR "ETH"):
Craze Candy Grape Flavor - Lot# 1206418 - Expiration date (06/15)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/ETHAnalysisDSCrazeCandyGrapeLot1206418.jpg)
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the crash can get terrible at times.
I think what is bad about this its not really "active" per say, its more pro drug with a substance that keeps it in liver longer.. so how well it will work depends on what you ate and how your body chemistry is that time of the day.
I remember I took it once and wanted to kill my self after the work out, Like literally just wanted to end it then and there. Come down is not worth the come up. IME.
forgive me but lulz that was a good one
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Took some Cellucor C4 this morning instead of coffee. Instantly awake in 2 minutes like I did a line of coke.
damn whats in that shit? id love to be instantly awake after work. probaly has some harsh chemicals in it
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Found this gibberish in my inbox over at BB.com a few moments ago:
I'm a reporter for USA TODAY working on an article about Craze. I saw that you had posted about it and was wondering if you would be willing to talk with me for my article?
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
Alison
Alison Young
Reporter
USA TODAY
703-854-6466
ayoung@usatoday.com
Twitter: @alisonannyoung
I told her no in no uncertain terms.
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Purge, are you certain there has never been any "eth" in any Detonate or Craze product?
If not sure, what do you think of spiking products like this?
That Thermolife thread is kinda interesting, even has Kneller posting. Best part is "Duchaine's"
posts. :D
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Purge, are you certain there has never been any "eth" in any Detonate or Craze product?
If not sure, what do you think of spiking products like this?
That Thermolife thread is kinda interesting, even has Kneller posting. Best part is "Duchaine's"
posts. :D
THANK YOU FOR VALIDATING WITH PROOF!! He probably has never had any real amphetamine/meth to tell the difference, it is not like ECA, at the very least you would know a big difference if you were familiar with amphetamines to know this stuff was for real.
Too bad the variation between samples is all over the place, like I said everytime I got my stuff online it all had the stuff in it, just varying dose/servings.
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Purge, are you certain there has never been any "eth" in any Detonate or Craze product?
If not sure, what do you think of spiking products like this?
That Thermolife thread is kinda interesting, even has Kneller posting. Best part is "Duchaine's"
posts. :D
WOw great thread over there, this is great.
What could happen to DS? Do you think they will be investigated?
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WOw great thread over there, this is great.
What could happen to DS? Do you think they will be investigated?
Those who should know say the FDA etc move slow. But this Kramer
dude is on a mission... I guess it depends on how much press this thing gets.
Kneller is a real snake... posing as a Chinese chem trader selling chems to his
own boss (Gaspari) LOL. Maybe has something to do with him
getting fired? :D
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what next
pwo powders containing crack
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what next
pwo powders containing crack
Next? These are PWO containing METH! Some would say worse than crack.
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Next? These are PWO containing METH! Some would say worse than crack.
so are you saying if you take this
in five months you will be blowing fat business men to get your next fix
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so are you saying if you take this
in five months you will be blowing fat business men to get your next fix
2 weeks, maybe 4 weeks tops.
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Those who should know say the FDA etc move slow. But this Kramer
dude is on a mission... I guess it depends on how much press this thing gets.
Kneller is a real snake... posing as a Chinese chem trader selling chems to his
own boss (Gaspari) LOL. Maybe has something to do with him
getting fired? :D
WHICH one is kneller, is he dr d? They say some USA today reporter is PM'ing people on bb.com about the craze story, could be smashed open if you got a paper like that looking for a story.
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WHICH one is kneller, is he dr d? They say some USA today reporter is PM'ing people on bb.com about the craze story, could be smashed open if you got a paper like that looking for a story.
Kneller is "Friend of Ron".
He stopped posting after "Coal Face Jesse Jackson" made some wonderful posts like this. Getbigger know this guy as Sir Duchaine. :D
Take a look at the 20 or so "easily identifiable and tested for compounds" listed above in the test results from Chromadex.
Observe the inclusion of "Acetildenafil/Hongdenafil"... you know, the very same PDE5 compounds that "idiot Bruce" was sourcing via the chembroker email address and Xiao Fu. Christ, what a fucking dumb girl he is.
Of course, here is where 'clever' Bruce can assert he employed 'other' PDE5 compounds, and that "this is all one big ruse constructed by the genius that is Kneller". However, for those with an IQ somewhat higher than a piss-soaked cereal box, a policy of disregarding such tall tales is advised. I mean really, I've heard better bullshit from the combined minds of Corky and Kai Greene.
Ron, if you'd commissioned such a test a couple of years ago, you'd have subsequently paraded test results revealing Kneller's spiking of Plasmajet with Acetildenafil/Hongdenafil, or whichever "already indentified and easily detected" PDE5 compound took his fancy.
Kneller, by his own yardstick, is a fucking tool. Judging from the love he had for the "already identified and easily detectable" PDE5 compound named Acetildenafil/Hongdenafil, Kneller would have arguably also been the dickhead loading up Plasmajet with Levitra if it had been available both at the time of his employment and at the right price. For all we know, he might have already done so at some point in history, all the while getting Gaspari to pay him twice for it via Xiao Fu. I mean, shit, you couldn't make this up. A more suitable candidate for the industry's "cheeky girl of the year" award I cannot imagine?
If Gaspari instigates a process of formal discovery re: Xiao Fu, it will reveal a reality somewhat contrary to Bruces warped version of events. An avaricious landscape wherein 'Conman The Formulator' can be found bilking the finances of Gaspari for his own personal, and wholly illegal, gain!
Embezzling monies from Gaspari, his boss no less, total scum! Gorgeous Liz has a proud history of charity work for fucks sake! You don't get hair and nails of such enviable elegance if thieving pricks of Kneller's foul caliber are busy siphoning off the funds needed to obtain such gorgeous accoutrements in the first place. Utter scum!
The irony being, Rich would have probably given Bruce the money in return for a reach-around and a shit-stained length up the ass anyway.
Honestly, Kneller, you are a "desperate for cash" cretin of the highest order. As I opined previously, you are all over the fucking map; and you're going back to jail. Going down for a bag of brown might pay dividends on the outside, but inside, for obese, aging fellas such as yourself, it's never going to happen. Jamal will be taking it by force.
Anal sphincters resembling GMC inner tubes to one side for a moment. You always were a squalid little shit at mfw. Craving the attention of those far superior to you in both intellect and technical ability. So jealous were you of the true industry icons, and more so their respectable stature of which you could never attain through legitimate avenues, you took the path of spiking products and accepting the moniker of 'genius formulator'. This was - in your dirty mind - a valid way to succeed; well done!
Sourcing unsafe, unapproved and potentially dangerous raw materials was de-rigueur for the depraved double act that was Bruce and Rich. Compounds of which, found their way into the performance enhancing excrement served up to Gaspari's much 'valued' customers. Never mind that some of them were harmed as a result of ingesting those noxious and nasty, corrupt concoctions!
If we add your pathetic three decades long desire to be seen as a qualified medical doctor (rather than whatever type of patient molesting menace you in fact were) the whole affair takes on a decidedly spew inducing tone. I bet both you and Palumbo could share a dark tale or three?
Bruce, get yourself warm, welcoming and ready to receive. For in the church of cock, an alter of penitentiary dick awaits your attention!
"Do you know this guy... Yes, you do. It's Bruce Kneller, back in jail... gagging on Gibbons."
To close, I do wish you the very best in future endeavors.
Kind regards to both you and your family.
All the best.
x x
LMAO
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Kneller is "Friend of Ron".
He stopped posting after "Coal Face Jesse Jackson" made some wonderful posts like this. Getbigger know this guy as Sir Duchaine. :D
LMAO
Holy shit that is an amazing poster, amazing writing ability, who is this guy and why is he not well known? Is that the same Duchaine who posted on MattC's board? I'm not familiar with any of these people, I just remember some tranny loving guy on MattC's board who disappeared.
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I think PA is great, and knows his shit. Right down to hiding other compounds in some of his older products. I have never tried this crap, but it sounds like it has been less of a pain in the ass to buy than simple Bronkaid.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/25/bodybuilding-supplement-designer-matt-cahill-usa-today-investigation/2568815/
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/25/bodybuilding-supplement-designer-matt-cahill-usa-today-investigation/2568815/
Yikes, there's no such thing as bad publicity.... unless it looks like that above.
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how long before everyone pulls it?
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I tried it
there is defo something phet like in there
don't take that shit in the eve you will not sleep
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I have never seen the point of taking a PWO drink, I only train for 30 minutes so I would be steaming for the rest of the day.
I can understand endurance athletes taking them and I would have used them (they didnt exist back then) back in the day when I played rugby, but for lifting weights I dont see the point.
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I have never seen the point of taking a PWO drink, I only train for 30 minutes so I would be steaming for the rest of the day.
I can understand endurance athletes taking them and I would have used them (they didnt exist back then) back in the day when I played rugby, but for lifting weights I dont see the point.
I just wanted to see what all the fuss was
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I really dont know what benefit you actually get from them, you are not telling me they help you get an extra rep or increase poundages because thats impossible.
Purely psychological.
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I really dont know what benefit you actually get from them, you are not telling me they help you get an extra rep or increase poundages because thats impossible.
Purely psychological.
you get jittery energy which is the best way to describe it
its like ephedra if you have ever tried that
I normally have a coffee and banana about an hour before I train
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you get jittery energy which is the best way to describe it
its like ephedra if you have ever tried that
I normally have a coffee and banana about an hour before I train
I have tried one, felt like shit, shaking like a shitting dog.
Had to stop training.
Never again.
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I've been training 5-6 days a week for the better part of the last 6 years. I LOVE my pre workout supps. Theyre all the same overpriced concoctions, but they give me a nice energy boost, especially on days when my ass is dragging from work or school.
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I've been training 5-6 days a week for the better part of the last 6 years. I LOVE my pre workout supps. Theyre all the same overpriced concoctions, but they give me a nice energy boost, especially on days when my ass is dragging from work or school.
what do you take
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I've been training 5-6 days a week for the better part of the last 6 years. I LOVE my pre workout supps. Theyre all the same overpriced concoctions, but they give me a nice energy boost, especially on days when my ass is dragging from work or school.
Whizz head. :)
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what do you take
Literally whatever is on sale! I've tried probably almost everything. Just go with what's cheap and its usually 50 cents per serving or so. I also take a break every 12 weeks or so for a few weeks.
Current supp: Amino Energy. Tastes like Kool-Aid 8)
Jewish Flex Approved
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Protein World Order
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Literally whatever is on sale! I've tried probably almost everything. Just go with what's cheap and its usually 50 cents per serving or so. I also take a break every 12 weeks or so for a few weeks.
Current supp: Amino Energy. Tastes like Kool-Aid 8)
Jewish Flex Approved
try craze before they ban it just not within six hours of trying to sleep
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try craze before they ban it just not within six hours of trying to sleep
Im sure I would love it!
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Dark Rage is the 'strongest' shit I've tried.
Gave me nosebleeds the first couple times I tried it.
Been using 1MR for a while now, as well as C4. Recently went to the original Jak3d.
I'd prefer 6g cit malate with 15g bcaas with 25mg ephedrine sulphate and 200mg caffine mixed with fresh squeezed grapefruit juice.
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Dark Rage is the 'strongest' shit I've tried.
Gave me nosebleeds the first couple times I tried it.
Been using 1MR for a while now, as well as C4. Recently went to the original Jak3d.
I'd prefer 6g cit malate with 15g bcaas with 25mg ephedrine sulphate and 200mg caffine mixed with fresh squeezed grapefruit juice.
Wouldnt a bit of amphetamine be better and much cheaper?
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Wouldnt a bit of amphetamine be better and much cheaper?
bit judgemental their jeffrey
phet is illegal its substitutes are not
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Wouldnt a bit of amphetamine be better and much cheaper?
i'm not a tweaker & i'm not gonna use speed just to save a few $$$.
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bit judgemental their jeffrey
phet is illegal its substitutes are not
Yes, maybe.
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Dark Rage is the 'strongest' shit I've tried.
Gave me nosebleeds the first couple times I tried it.
Been using 1MR for a while now, as well as C4. Recently went to the original Jak3d.
I'd prefer 6g cit malate with 15g bcaas with 25mg ephedrine sulphate and 200mg caffine mixed with fresh squeezed grapefruit juice.
Forgot about dark rage! That stuff was awesome! I remember buying the "cola" flavor....awesome stuff.
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I get the same effect from Gaspari's Detonate that I get from Craze, albeit not as faster since Craze is a powder.
It's hard to imagine the makers of both somehow connecting telepathically to spike their products with the same kind of Angeldust. Maybe it really is just the PEA/Dendrobium combo that does it.
Gaspari licensed the ingredient from Cahill, the owner of Driven Sports (maker of Craze). No wonder you get the same feeling, the ingredient of interest is IDENTICAL for both products!
That connection was not apparent when you posted, but if you go to the thermolife thread they pointed that out very early on.
BTW, Van Bilderass, what's your history with all those supplement people? I saw you in the thermolife thread hashing it with Kneller, seems like there is some bad blood?
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Hey anyone familiar with what ALRI was spiking their products with around 2009? I remember them mounting a marketing campaign blaming it on their Chinese powder supplier, fucking hilarious. I think it was called "And the gloves come off" or something, just hilarious, playing the victim.
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Hey anyone familiar with what ALRI was spiking their products with around 2009? I remember them mounting a marketing campaign blaming it on their Chinese powder supplier, fucking hilarious. I think it was called "And the gloves come off" or something, just hilarious, playing the victim.
I think Venom had sibutramine in it, at least according to what I've read.
It totally killed my appetite. Good stuff. :D
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BTW, Van Bilderass, what's your history with all those supplement people? I saw you in the thermolife thread hashing it with Kneller, seems like there is some bad blood?
I don't think I ever interacted with him before. Just used to read his posts on bb.com, the banter between him and Patrick etc. Reason I "flamed" him is that he's now acting like some kind of good guy in the industry, when he's been involved in so much shit, product spiking etc. Gaspari may be a scumbag but the way he tricked Gaspari by acting as a Chinese raws importer... well, who would want to hire a guy like that?
In that thread he just said, "I'm not going to respond to you anymore" LOL, what's he gonna say? I'm not making things up. :D
Patrick I like though. He is generally honest and you can trust what he says. He may be a junkie with a criminal mindset, but a guy who doesn't BS much. Whatever success the BALCO doping program had was due to Patrick IMO. All the other stuff was just supplemental to the designer steroid he supplied.
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Hey anyone familiar with what ALRI was spiking their products with around 2009? I remember them mounting a marketing campaign blaming it on their Chinese powder supplier, fucking hilarious. I think it was called "And the gloves come off" or something, just hilarious, playing the victim.
"ALRI", LOL he must be the biggest bullshitter of them all, Muscletech included.
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What about Scott Connelly?
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dont these methamphetamines make our society more productive as a whole? I'd love it if my waiter or garbageman or car mechanic is amped up a little... get shit done faster :)
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"ALRI", LOL he must be the biggest bullshitter of them all, Muscletech included.
What's the back story with ALRI? Ive never tried their products.
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More evidence. There's no longer any doubt, but DS continues to deny and Gaspari doesn't comment.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/14/tests-of-supplements-craze-and-detonate-find-methamphetamine-like-compound/2968041/
Article published in peer-reviewed Journal.
A methamphetamine analog (N,α-diethyl-phenylethylamine) identified in a mainstream dietary supplement
Pieter A. Cohen1,*,
John C. Travis2,
Bastiaan J. Venhuis3
Article first published online: 14 OCT 2013
DOI: 10.1002/dta.1578
Pharmaceuticals and banned substances have been detected in hundreds of purportedly natural supplements. Recently, several athletes have been disqualified from competition after testing positive for the methamphetamine analog N,α-diethyl-phenylethylamine (N,α-DEPEA). Athletes have claimed they unknowingly consumed the banned stimulant in workout supplements. Three samples from different lot numbers of Craze, a workout supplement, were analyzed to detect the presence and concentration of N,α-DEPEA. Two labs independently identified N,α-DEPEA in the supplement using ultra high performance liquid chromatography (UHPLC) coupled to an LTQ Orbitrap XL mass spectrometer and UHPLC-quadruple-time-of-flight mass (Q-TOF) spectrometer, respectively. The identity of N,α-DEPEA was confirmed using nuclear magnetic resonance and reference standards. Manufacturer recommended servings were estimated to provide 21 to 35 mg of N,α-DEPEA. N,α-DEPEA has never been studied in humans. N,α-DEPEA is a methamphetamine analog; however, its stimulant, addictive and other adverse effects in humans are entirely unknown. Regulatory agencies should act expeditiously to warn consumers and remove N,α-DEPEA from all dietary supplements. Copyright © 2013 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1578/abstract
So now we have government agencies in Sweden, Australia, Netherlands, South Korea via Japan all finding this compound in Craze and Gaspari Detonate. But DS claims the compound is positively not in the product, and if it is the product is counterfeit. :D
Cahill probably found this patent and decided to use it:
The researchers noted that the compound had been patented in 1988 by Knoll Pharmaceuticals with claims of psychoactive effects, such as enhancing mental activities and pain tolerance. While it was never developed into a medicine, the patent described tests on animals and suggested an intended oral dose of 10 mg to 150 mg, with a target of 30 mg.
A suggested serving size of Craze yielded a dose of the compound of about 23 mg, the Japanese journal article said, and "it could be assumed that NADEP was added to the supplements intentionally for its pharmacological effects without adequate labeling."
On Facebook we have jackass Mevin Vince Goodrum offering his absolutely worthless opinion:
Patrick, I don't think it was intentionally spiked as the story pertains.....however athletes who are strictly drug tested need to buy either Informed Choice or Certified supplements rather than the shit off of the clearance rack or whatever the idiot behind the counter at GNC says for his commission
Really, Vince? ::)
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Good info van
And lol at vince comment, so naive
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I was told by the owner of a large supplement distribution center that Craze will not be available for a while. Craze is being "reformulated". So once supplement warehouse's are sold out of their existing Craze inventory's, Craze will be unavailable until Driven Sports releases their new version of it.
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I was told by the owner of a large supplement distribution center that Craze will not be available for a while. Craze is being "reformulated". So once supplement warehouse's are sold out of their existing Craze inventory's, Craze will be unavailable until Driven Sports releases there new version of it.
I don't know about that. Cahill's priority now is staying out of jail. This thing got way big.
And how would you reformulate it? What would you replace the meth analogue with? Putting another designer drug in there would be too ballsy even for Cahill I think.
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I don't know about that. Cahill's priority now is staying out of jail. This thing got way big.
And how would you reformulate it? What would you replace the meth analogue with? Putting another designer drug in there would be too ballsy even for Cahill I think.
they Probably wont replace it with anything exotic. They will probably just quadruple the caffeine content and add some Tyrosine :(
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Smart thing is to blow it out to the smaller distributors, hang on to the money in case they need to defend themselves from claims, and declare themselves out of that end of the business.
If they're lucky, maybe they keep most of it, and side step the nasty stuff.
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I was told by the owner of a large supplement distribution center that Craze will not be available for a while. Craze is being "reformulated". So once supplement warehouse's are sold out of their existing Craze inventory's, Craze will be unavailable until Driven Sports releases their new version of it.
There is still stock of Craze at Predator Nutrition.
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What's the back story with ALRI? Ive never tried their products.
Sold tons of spiked products. I tried their Jungle Warfare and it was awesome. The pumps I got were too good for it to be natural. Turns out, it was hot!
I bought a few bottles after the first use and forgot about them, used some oral steroids and tried JW again and it didn't feel the same. I was pissed. But then I tried another bottle and it was definitely hot. Thought I just had an underdosed bottle but a few years later reports came out saying it had some designer steroid or pro hormone.
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I'm doings shots of Craze mixed in with hard liquor the next time I'm going out drinking.
I will be such a hit with the ladies, it will be sickening.
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Sold tons of spiked products. I tried their Jungle Warfare and it was awesome. The pumps I got were too good for it to be natural. Turns out, it was hot!
I bought a few bottles after the first use and forgot about them, used some oral steroids and tried JW again and it didn't feel the same. I was pissed. But then I tried another bottle and it was definitely hot. Thought I just had an underdosed bottle but a few years later reports came out saying it had some designer steroid or pro hormone.
Interesting....their huma-pro is some fascinating protein
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Interesting....their huma-pro is some fascinating protein
It's made out of ground up Asian people.
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It's made out of ground up Asian people.
Oh no, my people! But hey, at least they're all rice fed. :)
Yeah, supplement companies are fucking garbage. I bought the first protein tub I've purchased in years and I just have the occasional shake when I really can't eat. I remember I used to think I'd wither away and lose my gains so I'd have 10 shakes a day with two scoops each. Fuck. Could have bought a second home with all that cash. They prey on desperate kids the way drug dealers prey on junkies.
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Interesting....their huma-pro is some fascinating protein
What's fascinating about it? It's a simple EAA mix, with some BULLSHIT advertising. Probably the worst lies ever seen in supplement ads. :D
If I were in the US I would buy all the different EAA's separately and mix my own. Fuck buying some "proprietary blend" bullshit from a product spiker who sold steroids to kids who thought they were buying herbal extracts. What a scumbag.
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What's fascinating about it? It's a simple EAA mix, with some BULLSHIT advertising. Probably the worst lies ever seen in supplement ads. :D
If I were in the US I would buy all the different EAA's separately and mix my own. Fuck buying some "proprietary blend" bullshit from a product spiker who sold steroids to kids who thought they were buying herbal extracts. What a scumbag.
Wow seriously?? That's all there is to it??
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Wow seriously?? That's all there is to it??
Look at the label. A mix of aminos, B vitamins, minerals and a couple of herbal extracts. Reading the ads you'd think it was some magic, never before seen type of protein. There is NOTHING new or special here, nothing.
(http://www.mavrocatstrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/humapro-ingredients1.jpg)
BTW, someone professionalmuscle, a guy I consider the most knowledgeable on the whole forum by far ("Rex Feral"), says the formula is a clone of "MAP" (Master Amino Pattern).
http://www.masteraminoacidpattern.com/product/index.php
http://www.institut-o.com/a-comparative-study-on-map-luca-moretti-1988.html
Here is the ratio
Table V. Amino Acid Formula of the Master Amino Acid Pattern (g)
L-Isoleucine 1.483
L-Leucine 1.964
L-Lysine 1.429
L-Valine 1.657
L-Methionine 0.699
L-Phenylalanine 1.289
L-Threonine 1.111
L-Tryptophane 0.368
Total 10.000
(http://ultrarunnerpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/master_amino_acid_label.jpg)
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Wow! Nice ownnage there Van!!
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Meth like?
Yet another example of why you can't take the mainstream media seriously.
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Meth like?
Yet another example of why you can't take the mainstream media seriously.
It's actually not really media hype this time. It's common to find an UN scheduled drug and source it from China.
When I used it I'd feel zippy as fuck and really suicidal later in the day. I'd just feel very incoherent and had a strong desire to kill myself even if I had a great day, awesome workout and a good dinner. I haven't had drama in my life for a long time and the mitigating factor was this stuff. Even two pills or 50mg and later in the day I'll want to die. But you get solid energy from it. Didn't feel like a safe supplement and I couldn't finish the bottle.
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Van is easily one of the best posters here
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Look at the label. A mix of aminos, B vitamins, minerals and a couple of herbal extracts. Reading the ads you'd think it was some magic, never before seen type of protein. There is NOTHING new or special here, nothing.
(http://www.mavrocatstrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/humapro-ingredients1.jpg)
BTW, someone professionalmuscle, a guy I consider the most knowledgeable on the whole forum by far ("Rex Feral"), says the formula is a clone of "MAP" (Master Amino Pattern).
http://www.masteraminoacidpattern.com/product/index.php
http://www.institut-o.com/a-comparative-study-on-map-luca-moretti-1988.html
Here is the ratio
(http://ultrarunnerpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/master_amino_acid_label.jpg)
considering the research my investor and I have done on, those ratio's are very difficult to get to be exact (down to the microgram... hell, even the miligram) in bulk (I mean by the metric-ton). I have quotes from various producers/mixers/distributers and you're lookin at a 2-6% variance. Not exactly a selling point when you're touting a "master mix" that's exact down the the microgram (or nanogram).
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It's actually not really media hype this time. It's common to find an UN scheduled drug and source it from China.
When I used it I'd feel zippy as fuck and really suicidal later in the day. I'd just feel very incoherent and had a strong desire to kill myself even if I had a great day, awesome workout and a good dinner. I haven't had drama in my life for a long time and the mitigating factor was this stuff. Even two pills or 50mg and later in the day I'll want to die. But you get solid energy from it. Didn't feel like a safe supplement and I couldn't finish the bottle.
With Craze, I noticed that I had to urinate more than normal. I had no desire to eat and my sex drive lowered. My mind was too busy to be concerned with food or sex. It also impaired my sleep. I could not take it for a few weeks.... or a few months at a time, so it wasnt addictive. (But I do know a girl who made it the most important thing in her life. It took her from depressed & quiet, to happy, talkative, & energetic. She was on it for nearly 2 years straight. Several scoops a day).
I know what you mean about the "crash". But I found a way around it. I think it made you depressed because you probably were not eating enough carbs while you were on it. To have your brain being stimulated, without sufficient amounts of its preferred energy source, would make you
anxious & worried. I had to eat a TON of complex carbs when I was on it. You just have to keep the brain (which is excessively stimulated) with a constant fuel source.
Thats the problem. Craze killed the appetite. So eating excessive carbs has to be forced.
If you had eaten sufficient carbs (and enough sodium & potassium to compensate for the increased urination), you would have felt zippy all day.
I know this because I felt like you felt, in a way. My symptom manifested differently. When the euphoria ended, I had no patience for anything that irritated me. None. I got angry fast. Then, by chance, I ate nearly an entire pizza. The anger subsided, and the euphoria came back.
It was then that I realized the importance of carbs when it comes to mental function & dysfunction.
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Increased urination, loss of appetite, and mood swings are common side effects from high stimulant intake, no matter what or where the stimulants come from.
Like I've said on the boards before, a woman named Alison Young from USA Today sent me and several others a PM over at BB.com requesting interviews about Craze. I basically told her to cram it and stocked up a few days later. It's ironic that people like her report so often about the so-called obesity epidemic and then help to ban things that aid in weight loss, or that give you the motivation to get off your ass and try. Same thing with ephedra and DMAA.
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considering the research my investor and I have done on, those ratio's are very difficult to get to be exact (down to the microgram... hell, even the miligram) in bulk (I mean by the metric-ton). I have quotes from various producers/mixers/distributers and you're lookin at a 2-6% variance. Not exactly a selling point when you're touting a "master mix" that's exact down the the microgram (or nanogram).
I don't think an exact ratio down to the milligram matters at all in the real world. I have to question some of the other claims this MAP product makes, even if the product seems to be in the US PDR (?). Like the lack of calories thing. I know manufacturers don't have to list calories from individual aminos, only complete proteins, but from everything I've read an amino acid is 4 calories per gram just like any protein. Right?
I like free form aminos (they are easy to get down when not feeling like drinking a "rich" protein shake or eating food), but like I said, if I had easy access to individual aminos like you guys in the US (I could import but it's a hassle), I would mix my own and wouldn't pay for a "proprietary blend" from a scammer who doesn't even go by his real name, "L. Rea" LOL. I know mixing your own would taste like shit but you could probably make it taste acceptable by mixing with a flavored carb powder etc.
Patrick Arnold, who is almost always right (he was right about Craze) said this product is high quality. But it's a proprietary blend and very expensive.
http://www.prosportssupplements.com/amino-matrix-v-2-1.html
It's actually not really media hype this time. It's common to find an UN scheduled drug and source it from China.
When I used it I'd feel zippy as fuck and really suicidal later in the day. I'd just feel very incoherent and had a strong desire to kill myself even if I had a great day, awesome workout and a good dinner. I haven't had drama in my life for a long time and the mitigating factor was this stuff. Even two pills or 50mg and later in the day I'll want to die. But you get solid energy from it. Didn't feel like a safe supplement and I couldn't finish the bottle.
You're talking about Craze right?
I told my friend that I thought Craze was making me depressed. Couldn't be sure since I was using tren and other things as well. I never feel a crash from ephedrine or DMAA, never feel bad on the come down, but when I've used Craze I have felt extremely down. I have also experienced dizziness which I never got from any other OTC stimulant.
Increased urination, loss of appetite, and mood swings are common side effects from high stimulant intake, no matter what or where the stimulants come from.
Like I've said on the boards before, a woman named Alison Young from USA Today sent me and several others a PM over at BB.com requesting interviews about Craze. I basically told her to cram it and stocked up a few days later. It's ironic that people like her report so often about the so-called obesity epidemic and then help to ban things that aid in weight loss, or that give you the motivation to get off your ass and try. Same thing with ephedra and DMAA.
There are differences between stimulants though. I've never used street drugs or research chemicals (except this ETH and DMAA), but there's lots of research chemicals which cause some serious problems in users. There's been several meth-analogues, Ritalin analogues, cathinones etc sold by RC suppliers.
This ETH stuff doesn't seem to be very addicting though, it isn't extremely euphoric, and I read somewhere that some data suggested it probably doesn't boost dopamine that much, it works mostly on noradrenalin. The more dopamine a stimulant boosts the more reinforcing it is = addiction.
Cahill probably could have found a much stronger research chemical to put in there but it would have been pulled much quicker. Even this was slightly "too good" and people started questioning it. Other manufacturers apparently started playing with dendrobium extracts and were mystified when it didn't do anything. :D There is no dendrobium in Craze.
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You're talking about Craze right?
This was DMAA pills. But I bought Craze when it came out because my friend owns a supplement store and said it was flying off the shelves.
Was looking for a stim I could use without BPH fears. But I guess when it comes to stims there's no free lunches. I don't even take caffeine or absolutely any preworkouts anymore and I realized I get the same pump. Only time when I'll take a pre-workout is if I'm completely off all juice and really need it. I do like some pre-workouts, but these type of supps get you way too wired and definitely don't feel safe. I wish I could use ephedrine but I'm too scared.
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I have tried Craze extensively now, almost emptied the box.
Much much better than caffein. More focus and less jitter. I almost stopped drinking coffee because this keeps me alert the whole workday.
Oh and yes, it seems to kill off the appetite. Not getting my usual post-mad-hunger, even after working out hard.
The only problem is that it feels so good sometimes I don't even wanna go to the gym to get my endorfin rush anymore, just happy cleaning the apartment with music playing in my headphones lol