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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Roger Bacon on April 07, 2013, 08:12:08 PM
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MSNBC Host: Your Kids Belong to the Collective
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
April 6, 2013
In the video below, college professor and MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry says your children are not yours – they are owned by the community. She says public education has failed because we have not allowed the state to confiscate more of our money.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
“We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families,” says the professor of political science at Tulane University, where she is founding director of the Anna Julia Cooper Project on Gender, Race, and Politics in the South. Kids belong to whole communities, she insists, and once we realize this we’ll make “better investments” in government indoctrination of children.
http://www.infowars.com/your-kids-belong-to-the-collective/
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Fundy liberalism
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MSNBC Host: Your Kids Belong to the Collective
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
April 6, 2013
In the video below, college professor and MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry says your children are not yours – they are owned by the community. She says public education has failed because we have not allowed the state to confiscate more of our money.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
“We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families,” says the professor of political science at Tulane University, where she is founding director of the Anna Julia Cooper Project on Gender, Race, and Politics in the South. Kids belong to whole communities, she insists, and once we realize this we’ll make “better investments” in government indoctrination of children.
http://www.infowars.com/your-kids-belong-to-the-collective/
With goofs like this, is it any wonder MSNBC is the red-headed stepchild of cable news.
This ain't the Borg from Star Trek. My kids don't belong to the collective. They belong to me, my wife, and the good Lord.
This country spend money on education, as if it's going out of style. Yet, American children have perhaps never been dumber.
Better money management, school choice, keeping good teachers, and scrapping bad ones will get our kids back on the right track.
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I've said it before, but I was just shocked by the way Fox defended Bush/Cheney... I've bitched about Faux News on here in the past. MSNBC has surpassed everything though, these people are fucking lunatics.
These little segments they have on during commercials are so fucking creepy. The only reason I've seen them is because I watch Lockup for some reason.
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This country spend money on education, as if it's going out of style. Yet, American children have perhaps never been dumber.
Speaking as someone who's been involved in education (albeit at the University level) you only have yourself to blame for that: you elect school boards whose members don't have 3 brain cells to rub together, are just as uneducated as the dumb kids the school system pumps out, and believe that not only are they qualified to decide what children should learn, but how they should be taught and what textbooks should say.
I've stood before a school board, asking the idiots on the other side to not cut math and science funding in favor of sports and art and you know what the answer was: "I don't know nothing about calculus and I did fine. I'm on the school board! Sports teach discipline and art teaches students to expand their mind. Our students already know that if you let go of a box it will fall or that if 2 and 2 is four, they don't need a year of physics or math to teach them that."
Unfortunately THAT is the kind of person who gets elected to school boards.
And it shows. Because the average American kid who gets into University can't read English well, can't write English well, can't do basic math, can't study and, worse still, can't think. And you have kids from overseas who come to our Universities and run circles around our students without even trying.
Better money management, school choice, keeping good teachers, and scrapping bad ones will get our kids back on the right track.
No it won't. Not as long as those good teachers are required by their idiot bosses to do stupid things like teaching that mystical beliefs are on an equal footing with science.
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Speaking as someone who's been involved in education (albeit at the University level) you only have yourself to blame for that: you elect school boards whose members don't have 3 brain cells to rub together, are just as uneducated as the dumb kids the school system pumps out, and believe that not only are they qualified to decide what children should learn, but how they should be taught and what textbooks should say.
I've stood before a school board, asking the idiots on the other side to not cut math and science funding in favor of sports and art and you know what the answer was: "I don't know nothing about calculus and I did fine. I'm on the school board! Sports teach discipline and art teaches students to expand their mind. Our students already know that if you let go of a box it will fall or that if 2 and 2 is four, they don't need a year of physics or math to teach them that."
Unfortunately THAT is the kind of person who gets elected to school boards.
And it shows. Because the average American kid who gets into University can't read English well, can't write English well, can't do basic math, can't study and, worse still, can't think. And you have kids from overseas who come to our Universities and run circles around our students without even trying...
No it won't. Not as long as those good teachers are required by their idiot bosses to do stupid things like teaching that mystical beliefs are on an equal footing with science.
I cannot possibly say enough bad things about the public schooling I was subjected to. Private school is a whole different ball game, the students are advanced by about two or three grade levels.
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MSNBC Host: Your Kids Belong to the Collective
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
April 6, 2013
In the video below, college professor and MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry says your children are not yours – they are owned by the community. She says public education has failed because we have not allowed the state to confiscate more of our money.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
“We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families,” says the professor of political science at Tulane University, where she is founding director of the Anna Julia Cooper Project on Gender, Race, and Politics in the South. Kids belong to whole communities, she insists, and once we realize this we’ll make “better investments” in government indoctrination of children.
http://www.infowars.com/your-kids-belong-to-the-collective/
That is pretty freaking disturbing.
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MSNBC, FOX, and CNN are little more than entertainment variety shows headed up by talking heads who spew forth garbage day in and day out. It is frightening that they are able to influence even a small portion of the population.
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Sick.
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Dangerous racist nutcase.
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Wonder how she'll feel if the community decides to take a larger role in the ownership of her daughter?
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Wonder how she'll feel if the community decides to take a larger role in the ownership of her daughter?
Exactly. She thinks she's part of the ruling class, though, so her proposed rules don't apply to her. Only the best private schools for her daughter.
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MSNBC Host: Your Kids Belong to the Collective
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
April 6, 2013
In the video below, college professor and MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry says your children are not yours – they are owned by the community. She says public education has failed because we have not allowed the state to confiscate more of our money.
So absolutely nothing to do with the teaching unions ensuring fuckwits get tenure after a mere 24 months on the job and then kicking back doing fuck all for the rest of their careers because even performance relate pay would be 'unfair'.
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Speaking as someone who's been involved in education (albeit at the University level) you only have yourself to blame for that: you elect school boards whose members don't have 3 brain cells to rub together, are just as uneducated as the dumb kids the school system pumps out, and believe that not only are they qualified to decide what children should learn, but how they should be taught and what textbooks should say.
I've stood before a school board, asking the idiots on the other side to not cut math and science funding in favor of sports and art and you know what the answer was: "I don't know nothing about calculus and I did fine. I'm on the school board! Sports teach discipline and art teaches students to expand their mind. Our students already know that if you let go of a box it will fall or that if 2 and 2 is four, they don't need a year of physics or math to teach them that."
Unfortunately THAT is the kind of person who gets elected to school boards.
And it shows. Because the average American kid who gets into University can't read English well, can't write English well, can't do basic math, can't study and, worse still, can't think. And you have kids from overseas who come to our Universities and run circles around our students without even trying.
First of all, I don' elect anyone to any school boards. I've long discovered how pathetic the public school system is. My kids will never see the inside of a public school, if I have anything to say about it. My children have either been in private schools or homeschool. And, that's how they will continue to be educated.
My wife is also a university professor. But, unlike Harris-Perry, she actually teaches stuff that's valuable in the real world: Nursing. It's safe to say that there's a little science involved there. Some of the kids she teaches are as dumb as a sack of bricks.
No it won't. Not as long as those good teachers are required by their idiot bosses to do stupid things like teaching that mystical beliefs are on an equal footing with science.
Your anti-religous slant has clouded your common sense. Public schools CAN'T teach any so-called mystical beliefs, period. Evolution has been taught by law in public schools FOR DECADES. Yet, American kids continue to SUCK at math and science. Explain that.
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One of my least favorite pundits along with the utter hack Michael Dyson. People like those two live in a paranoid alternate reality.
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First of all, I don' elect anyone to any school boards. I've long discovered how pathetic the public school system is. My kids will never see the inside of a public school, if I have anything to say about it. My children have either been in private schools or homeschool. And, that's how they will continue to be educated.
The "you" in question wasn't targeting anyone in particular. But since you waded into the pool, let's swim, shall we? Even if your kids are homeschooled and never see the inside of a public school, you still have the option of voting for school board members in elections. And if you don't vote for qualified candidates, then you are just as responsible for the sad state of our schools as those people who vote for unqualified ones.
My wife is also a university professor. But, unlike Harris-Perry, she actually teaches stuff that's valuable in the real world: Nursing. It's safe to say that there's a little science involved there. Some of the kids she teaches are as dumb as a sack of bricks.
You won't get any argument from me. Many of the kids in my classes must come from the same brick factory.
Your anti-religous slant has clouded your common sense. Public schools CAN'T teach any so-called mystical beliefs, period. Evolution has been taught by law in public schools FOR DECADES. Yet, American kids continue to SUCK at math and science. Explain that.
Really? Let's see about that... Here are the requirements set by a school board in Georgia:
- Curriculum must be organized such that no student is compelled to study the origin of the human species in science
- No scientific study in the origin of the human species may be taught at the elementary or middle school level
- There may be no course requirement for the origin of the human species in science for high school graduation
- Elective course work must be available to students to investigate alternatives to the origin of the human species in science, including creationism
- These electives must be identified in course selection guides provided to students and parents
So here we have a school board that seeks to limit the teaching of science, and quite explicitly mentions that creationism must be taught as a valid and scientific alternative. This is the same school board that ordered the now infamous "Evolution is a theory not a fact" (as if the name "Theory of Evolution" isn't enough of a hint) sticker placed on biology textbooks.
And the hicks in Georgia aren't the only ones doing this nonsense. Off the top of my head there was the school board in Kansas that voted to teach "Intelligent Design" as a scientific theory, alongside evolution (and whose members, surprisingly, were kicked out in the next election).
I don't argue that this is the only problem behind the sub-par math and science education U.S. children receive. There are many reasons for that and we can get into them if you want. But my point is that when Universities (likes the ones your wife and I teach in) are forced to offer courses high-school level courses as math (at my University we have Math 097 "Basic Arithmetic") you know that there's a problem.
One of the problems is that many courses are electives, and the required math and science courses are a joke. Another is that students aren't tested properly. They get multiple choice tests, pages and pages of cheat sheets and use scientific calculators with more processing power than the Apollo navigation computer.
There are, of course, oversimplifications in a sense and they aren't the only causes. You could even argue that they are symptoms. But they accurately portray the sad state of our education system.
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One of my least favorite pundits along with the utter hack Michael Dyson. People like those two live in a paranoid alternate reality.
She is really a pos like most on that station
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The "you" in question wasn't targeting anyone in particular. But since you waded into the pool, let's swim, shall we? Even if your kids are homeschooled and never see the inside of a public school, you still have the option of voting for school board members in elections. And if you don't vote for qualified candidates, then you are just as responsible for the sad state of our schools as those people who vote for unqualified ones.
You won't get any argument from me. Many of the kids in my classes must come from the same brick factory.
Really? Let's see about that... Here are the requirements set by a school board in Georgia:
- Curriculum must be organized such that no student is compelled to study the origin of the human species in science
- No scientific study in the origin of the human species may be taught at the elementary or middle school level
- There may be no course requirement for the origin of the human species in science for high school graduation
- Elective course work must be available to students to investigate alternatives to the origin of the human species in science, including creationism
- These electives must be identified in course selection guides provided to students and parents
So here we have a school board that seeks to limit the teaching of science, and quite explicitly mentions that creationism must be taught as a valid and scientific alternative. This is the same school board that ordered the now infamous "Evolution is a theory not a fact" (as if the name "Theory of Evolution" isn't enough of a hint) sticker placed on biology textbooks.
And the hicks in Georgia aren't the only ones doing this nonsense. Off the top of my head there was the school board in Kansas that voted to teach "Intelligent Design" as a scientific theory, alongside evolution (and whose members, surprisingly, were kicked out in the next election).
I don't argue that this is the only problem behind the sub-par math and science education U.S. children receive. There are many reasons for that and we can get into them if you want. But my point is that when Universities (likes the ones your wife and I teach in) are forced to offer courses high-school level courses as math (at my University we have Math 097 "Basic Arithmetic") you know that there's a problem.
One of the problems is that many courses are electives, and the required math and science courses are a joke. Another is that students aren't tested properly. They get multiple choice tests, pages and pages of cheat sheets and use scientific calculators with more processing power than the Apollo navigation computer.
There are, of course, oversimplifications in a sense and they aren't the only causes. You could even argue that they are symptoms. But they accurately portray the sad state of our education system.
There's a difference between what we call "operational science" and "origins science". I'm an engineer. My wife's a nurse. For some reason, evolution vs. Creation had little to do with our lines of work. And, both of us went to Christian schools during our younger years.
Plus, your list says electives and no requirements. The public schools are still teaching evolution. While technically it's not required, effectively it is. How many kids (or their parents, on their behalf) are actually opting out of this?
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No it won't. Not as long as those good teachers are required by their idiot bosses to do stupid things like teaching that mystical beliefs are on an equal footing with science.
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right because public schools teach students about God. dude. you can't even say God in public schools anymore.
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The "you" in question wasn't targeting anyone in particular. But since you waded into the pool, let's swim, shall we? Even if your kids are homeschooled and never see the inside of a public school, you still have the option of voting for school board members in elections. And if you don't vote for qualified candidates, then you are just as responsible for the sad state of our schools as those people who vote for unqualified ones.
You won't get any argument from me. Many of the kids in my classes must come from the same brick factory.
Really? Let's see about that... Here are the requirements set by a school board in Georgia:
- Curriculum must be organized such that no student is compelled to study the origin of the human species in science
- No scientific study in the origin of the human species may be taught at the elementary or middle school level
- There may be no course requirement for the origin of the human species in science for high school graduation
- Elective course work must be available to students to investigate alternatives to the origin of the human species in science, including creationism
- These electives must be identified in course selection guides provided to students and parents
So here we have a school board that seeks to limit the teaching of science, and quite explicitly mentions that creationism must be taught as a valid and scientific alternative. This is the same school board that ordered the now infamous "Evolution is a theory not a fact" (as if the name "Theory of Evolution" isn't enough of a hint) sticker placed on biology textbooks.
And the hicks in Georgia aren't the only ones doing this nonsense. Off the top of my head there was the school board in Kansas that voted to teach "Intelligent Design" as a scientific theory, alongside evolution (and whose members, surprisingly, were kicked out in the next election).
I don't argue that this is the only problem behind the sub-par math and science education U.S. children receive. There are many reasons for that and we can get into them if you want. But my point is that when Universities (likes the ones your wife and I teach in) are forced to offer courses high-school level courses as math (at my University we have Math 097 "Basic Arithmetic") you know that there's a problem.
One of the problems is that many courses are electives, and the required math and science courses are a joke. Another is that students aren't tested properly. They get multiple choice tests, pages and pages of cheat sheets and use scientific calculators with more processing power than the Apollo navigation computer.
There are, of course, oversimplifications in a sense and they aren't the only causes. You could even argue that they are symptoms. But they accurately portray the sad state of our education system.
i went to a Catholic school and we learned about evolution. i never get when people say Catholics don't believe in evolution, when thats quite simply not true. too much exposure to MSNBC is what it is.
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No it won't. Not as long as those good teachers are required by their idiot bosses to do stupid things like teaching that mystical beliefs are on an equal footing with science.
right because public schools teach students about God. dude. you can't even say God in public schools anymore.
You can teach bad science without mentioning the word "God".
i went to a Catholic school and we learned about evolution. i never get when people say Catholics don't believe in evolution, when thats quite simply not true. too much exposure to MSNBC is what it is.
I'm not sure why you're quoting my post on the subject since I've never said that and don't watch MSNBC.
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There's a difference between what we call "operational science" and "origins science". I'm an engineer. My wife's a nurse. For some reason, evolution vs. Creation had little to do with our lines of work. And, both of us went to Christian schools during our younger years.
Right - but the thing is what you teach as a concept and what you present science as... take intelligent design, for example. If you present that as a scientific theory you're doing a disservice to children, because it's not and cannot be.
Plus, your list says electives and no requirements. The public schools are still teaching evolution. While technically it's not required, effectively it is. How many kids (or their parents, on their behalf) are actually opting out of this?
Children opting out of science isn't the issue (although I think that elementary biology should be a part of a well-thought out curriculum) in this case. The issue is that the school board was forcing teachers to teach bad science to those students who chose to opt in.
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I cannot possibly say enough bad things about the public schooling I was subjected to. Private school is a whole different ball game, the students are advanced by about two or three grade levels.
I went to a private school until I was 10.
I was ready for college from a language perspective by then... As a matter of fact I took my SATs at 12 and aced the verbal portion.
None of my public school counterparts were able.
We do spend a ton of money on education, but ultimately, it's not about money... It's about personal responsibility... Do you want to do well or not? Does your family promote your education or not?
If they don't, then you get what you get.
I'm not sure I disagree with her "completely" though... I don't like how she puts it, but it does take a village to raise a child properly... Not just one person.
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I went to a private school until I was 10.
I was ready for college from a language perspective by then... As a matter of fact I took my SATs at 12 and aced the verbal portion.
None of my public school counterparts were able.
We do spend a ton of money on education, but ultimately, it's not about money... It's about personal responsibility... Do you want to do well or not? Does your family promote your education or not?
If they don't, then you get what you get.
I'm not sure I disagree with her "completely" though... I don't like how she puts it, but it does take a village to raise a child properly... Not just one person.
That village is usually extended family: Big Mama, Paw-Paw, Ti-Ti, Crazy Uncle Joe, and 'nem!!
;D
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That village is usually extended family: Big Mama, Paw-Paw, Ti-Ti, Crazy Uncle Joe, and 'nem!!
;D
I agree... That's also a part of our educational issue... Look at the black community. How much do they support raising their children? If they aren't on Maury... They don't care.
:'(
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I agree... That's also a part of our educational issue... Look at the black community. How much do they support raising their children? If they aren't on Maury... They don't care.
:'(
EXACTLY!! And it's progressive policies and morals (or lack thereof), championed by the likes of Harris-Perry, that fosters such an environment.
Even when black people favor school choice, folks like her HOWL and SCREAM against it. Why? Because it empowers the parents, NOT the state.
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She is really a pos like most on that station
I can understand what she means. In a society we are all connected some way. It's just that her whole world is centered on finding racism everywhere. I bet that's all she ever talks about.
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I'm not sure I disagree with her "completely" though... I don't like how she puts it, but it does take a village to raise a child properly... Not just one person.
In some respects, I agree as well. Although I suspect her view is more extreme than yours or mine.
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In some respects, I agree as well. Although I suspect her view is more extreme than yours or mine.
Unfortunately, that's the problem in general... No one wants to look at it from a common sense perspective, they all just go to one extreme or the other.
:-/
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My wife and I have had rigorous discussions about education, particularly school choice (vouchers).
She's dead set against them; I'm for them. She thinks that it waters down private school education, because (at least at certain schools) it forces those schools to dumb down educational standards.
I'm for them, because it allows for black families to get their kids out of failing schools. But, if they cut up, the private schools usually have the power to discipline those kids appropriately (booting them out, if necessary).
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My wife and I have had rigorous discussions about education, particularly school choice (vouchers).
She's dead set against them; I'm for them. She thinks that it waters down private school education, because (at least at certain schools) it forces those schools to dumb down educational standards.
I'm for them, because it allows for black families to get their kids out of failing schools. But, if they cut up, the private schools usually have the power to discipline those kids appropriately (booting them out, if necessary).
That's an entirely separate issue.
Giving schools the ability to discipline children again would be a fantastic start. Let's go back to the time when if you were a kid you got a paddle... You got swatted when you fucked up.
It happened to me and I think I turned out ok.
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It happened to me and I think I turned out ok.
That's highly debateable! ;) :-*
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That's an entirely separate issue.
Giving schools the ability to discipline children again would be a fantastic start. Let's go back to the time when if you were a kid you got a paddle... You got swatted when you fucked up.
It happened to me and I think I turned out ok.
Same here. It's the old board of education to the seat of knowledge.
But, the issues here are not quite separate. School vouchers empower the parents, as opposed to leaving it all up to the state.
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That's highly debateable! ;) :-*
Most people would say that I'm a productive member of society.
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Most people would say that I'm a productive member of society.
I'm just teasing you. :)
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Same here. It's the old board of education to the seat of knowledge.
But, the issues here are not quite separate. School vouchers empower the parents, as opposed to leaving it all up to the state.
That's fair, but does the voucher system then increase the cost of education across the board?
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Most people would say that I'm a productive member of society.
More importantly, you are a respected getbigger! ;D
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More importantly, you are a respected getbigger! ;D
True... society can suck it.
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I went to a private school until I was 10.
I was ready for college from a language perspective by then... As a matter of fact I took my SATs at 12 and aced the verbal portion.
None of my public school counterparts were able.
We do spend a ton of money on education, but ultimately, it's not about money... It's about personal responsibility... Do you want to do well or not? Does your family promote your education or not?
If they don't, then you get what you get.
I'm not sure I disagree with her "completely" though... I don't like how she puts it, but it does take a village to raise a child properly... Not just one person.
My foray into public schools was mercifully brief. You may have heard this story before, about my 10th grade experience. In particular, it was my biology class. I went to a private school the first half of tenth grade and public school my second half. The former was Creation-based biology; the latter was evolution based.
The latter class was a joke. I zipped through that with almost no effort.
In fact, I bought (at a homeschool fair) a copy of the very book I used in private school that year.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Biology-for-Christian-Schools-by-Bob-Jones-/00/s/MTAyNFg4Mzc=/$(KGrHqZ,!lIFCecqLGShBQ8Gj6Ujsg~~60_57.JPG)
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That's fair, but does the voucher system then increase the cost of education across the board?
From what I've seen, it does not. The money, allocated for public school, is used for the voucher at the private school. Tuition is usually less there. In fact, in the Ohio school voucher case, Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, there was a cap on the money allotted which was based on public school costs.
If a private school's tuition exceeded that amount, the parent had to pay the rest out of pocket. Despite that, 96% of all voucher recipients sent their kids to private schools.
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That's fair, but does the voucher system then increase the cost of education across the board?
My main issue with vouchers is when they are used for religous schools. In my opinion this is a fundamental violation of the separation between church and state.
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My main issue with vouchers is when they are used for religous schools. In my opinion this is a fundamental violation of the separation between church and state.
I disagree. Fortunately, so did the Supreme Court in Zelman v. Simmons-Harris. But, it was a split decision, 5-4. And it's a tightrope deal.
The gist is that the program had a secular purpose (education for low-income kids) and thus religious schools can be used in the mix. The same amount of money was allocated for all schools, public and private.
The SCOTUS ruled that the state's involvement ends, once the money is given to the parents. So, the choice of private schools is solely on the parents, not the state. As long as that's the case, there's no constitutional violation.
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I disagree. Fortunately, so did the Supreme Court in Zelman v. Simmons-Harris. But, it was a split decision, 5-4. And it's a tightrope deal.
The gist is that the program had a secular purpose (education for low-income kids) and thus religious schools can be used in the mix. The same amount of money was allocated for all schools, public and private.
The SCOTUS ruled that the state's involvement ends, once the money is given to the parents. So, the choice of private schools is solely on the parents, not the state. As long as that's the case, there's no constitutional violation.
It is the law of the land and for that reason it must be accepted. As far as I am aware, at least in michigan, on average the amount spend per child is a higher than what most individuals pay in taxes intended for education. In this scheme, the money in each student voucher isn't representative of the taxes paid toward education. I may be wrong, so, this is a statement/question.
Going on a tangent in 3,2,1...
In a weird way this empowers the poor, who often don't pay taxes at all, than it does working class or higher income families who can afford to live on areas with better schools. At the same time, lower income parents who often have difficulty arranging adequate transportation wouldn't be able to take advantage of vouchers. Even if it they were able to take advantage of the vouchers, it doesn't necessarily mean private schools have to accept them.
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It is the law of the land and for that reason it must be accepted. As far as I am aware, at least in michigan, on average the amount spend per child is a higher than what most individuals pay in taxes intended for education. In this scheme, the money in each student voucher isn't representative of the taxes paid toward education. I may be wrong, so, this is a statement/question.
Going on a tangent in 3,2,1...
In a weird way this empowers the poor, who often don't pay taxes at all, than it does working class or higher income families who can afford to live on areas with better schools. At the same time, lower income parents who often have difficulty arranging adequate transportation wouldn't be able to take advantage of vouchers. Even if it they were able to take advantage of the vouchers, it doesn't necessarily mean private schools have to accept them.
That's true. Private schools, even public schools, aren't required to accept vouchers. In fact, many state constitutions are stricter on this issue than the US Constitution is.
Zelman simply says that, if a state has a voucher program, it must be in the same format as the one in Ohio. There's a 5-point litmus test.
- The program must have a valid secular purpose,
- Aid must go to parents and not to the schools,
- A broad class of beneficiaries must be covered,
- The program must be neutral with respect to religion, and
- There must be adequate nonreligious options.
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That's true. Private schools, even public schools, aren't required to accept vouchers. In fact, many state constitutions are stricter on this issue than the US Constitution is.
Zelman simply says that, if a state has a voucher program, it must be in the same format as the one in Ohio. There's a 5-point litmus test.
- The program must have a valid secular purpose,
- Aid must go to parents and not to the schools,
- A broad class of beneficiaries must be covered,
- The program must be neutral with respect to religion, and
- There must be adequate nonreligious options.
Thanks for the info. I appreciate clearing up the details for me.
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Thanks for the info. I appreciate clearing up the details for me.
No problem!! You might live in a state, that clearly bans any public school funds being used at private schools (most of which are religious ones).
Zelman doesn't mandate voucher use. But, to avoid the church-state issues, the aforementioned criteria must fit.
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From what I've seen, it does not. The money, allocated for public school, is used for the voucher at the private school. Tuition is usually less there. In fact, in the Ohio school voucher case, Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, there was a cap on the money allotted which was based on public school costs.
If a private school's tuition exceeded that amount, the parent had to pay the rest out of pocket. Despite that, 96% of all voucher recipients sent their kids to private schools.
I've never known a private school to be cheaper than a public one.
Not in my entire existence on earth have I seen that.
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Where are all the fundy liberals to defend this?
i was hoping for some more blind deflection from strawman, blacken and lurker
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Where are all the fundy liberals to defend this?
i was hoping for some more blind deflection from strawman, blacken and lurker
Lurker might be on the wrestling thread. Straw and Blacken....good luck with those two. Defending liberal foolishness ain't their bag. Last time I checked, they were chirping about my thread about that teenager and global warming.
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I've never known a private school to be cheaper than a public one.
Not in my entire existence on earth have I seen that.
In NYS we pay double for public school vs what a typical private charges.
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In NYS we pay double for public school vs what a typical private charges.
Really?
Holy shit!
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Really?
Holy shit!
Yes. Even the shit ass public school spend about 20 - 30k per year per kid
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Yes. Even the shit ass public school spend about 20 - 30k per year per kid
That's ridiculous.
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That's ridiculous.
Its NYS - one party state run by public sector unions.
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That's ridiculous.
This is how it works. I've taught at a private catholic school many years ago and have some experience.. A private school, let's say for arguments sake, Brother Rice High School is very selective with whom it allows to grace it's halls. Disadvantaged students aren't allowed or cant afford (scholarships are available)entry and under performing students and those with behavioral issues are removed, at the discretion of the dean, of course. If you have money these rules don't apply to you. I know this first hand.
Academically, Brother Rice looks great because they can pick and choose the student body, unlike publics. Brother Rice capitalizes on their reputation for academic excellence and are able to charge parents more for the prevledge of attending such a prestigious institution.
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;D
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;D
Palin... what a joke. Seriously, Palin and her ilk are the reason why the word "conservative" is a pejorative these days.
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Palin... what a joke. Seriously, Palin and her ilk are the reason why the word "conservative" is a pejorative these days.
What did she say that is wrong?
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What did she say that is wrong?
I didn't say that she said anything wrong. I said that she's a joke - and she is. She a media whore that's all show and little substance; a media whore who signs onto reality TV shows and pulls "stunts" involving Big Gulp cups all so that she can stay in the public eye.
And that's all fine and dandy - I have no issue with that. There are a lot of media whores on TV - from Honey Boo Boo to the cast of the "Teen Moms" series, and from "The Apprentice" to "Beverly Hills Wives".
The problem isn't even that she fancies herself a politician.
The problem is that there are people stupid enough to believe she's qualified to hold a sippy cup, let alone office.
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Given what we have in office now everything becomes relative in terms of what constitutes qualified for office. ;)
I didn't say that she said anything wrong. I said that she's a joke - and she is. She a media whore that's all show and little substance; a media whore who signs onto reality TV shows and pulls "stunts" involving Big Gulp cups all so that she can stay in the public eye.
And that's all fine and dandy - I have no issue with that. There are a lot of media whores on TV - from Honey Boo Boo to the cast of the "Teen Moms" series, and from "The Apprentice" to "Beverly Hills Wives".
The problem isn't even that she fancies herself a politician.
The problem is that there are people stupid enough to believe she's qualified to hold a sippy cup, let alone office.
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Given what we have in office now everything becomes relative in terms of what constitutes qualified for office. ;)
We all know your burning hatred for Obama, but to be fair, he's not the first unqualified candidate to be elected.
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Palin... what a joke. Seriously, Palin and her ilk are the reason why the word "conservative" is a pejorative these days.
Would you hit it though?
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Would you hit it though?
Of course... Chick is a MILF and the story would be of legend.
(If I was not in a committed monogamous relationship of course)
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Would you hit it though?
No. A little too old for me – and, in my opinion, not particularly attractive.
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No. A little too old for me – and, in my opinion, not particularly attractive.
Fuck, I'm barely 24 and she isn't too old for me... 8)
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No. A little too old for me – and, in my opinion, not particularly attractive.
Bro you gay? Palin is smoking hot
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Bro you gay? Palin is smoking hot
Our definitions of "smoking hot" differ. I don't find her particularly attractive. She's not ugly, but not beautiful either.
And no, I'm not gay.
Fuck, I'm barely 24 and she isn't too old for me... 8)
I'm 35 - I'm not interested in dating or fucking any woman under 25 or over 28. Older women had their allure, but I had enough of them.
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I'm 35 - I'm not interested in dating or fucking any woman under 25 or over 28. Older women had their allure, but I had enough of them.
hows that working out for you?
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hows that working out for you?
Dude, not everyone is as despeerate as you. Good Grief!!! Your posts reek of desperation... begging for co-ed locker rooms like some 13 yr old who has never seen a tittie. ::) ::)
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Dude, not everyone is as despeerate as you. Good Grief!!! Your posts reek of desperation... begging for co-ed locker rooms like some 13 yr old who has never seen a tittie. ::) ::)
it was a fun question you miserable shrew lol, just b/c you dont have a sense of humor and have nobody in your life doesnt mean you need to take your misery out on others.
Now piss off and go hock some more scams
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it was a fun question you miserable shrew lol, just b/c you dont have a sense of humor and have nobody in your life doesnt mean you need to take your misery out on others.
Now piss off and go hock some more scams
Miserable shrew? ... moi?? ...only in your dreams! Looks like I hit a raw nerve. hmmm... ;D
I have a terrific sense of humour, and as for my love life... I won't be posting about that at all. :-X
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hows that working out for you?
Surprisingly enough, pretty well. I have better relationships with women (whether casual or seriojs) now than I ever did in my twenties. And the sex is pretty great.
I'm sure that my status as a getbigger benefits me tremendously.
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Surprisingly enough, pretty well. I have better relationships with women (whether casual or seriojs) now than I ever did in my twenties. And the sex is pretty great.
I'm sure that my status as a getbigger benefits me tremendously.
hahaha no doubt I get woman buying me drinks when I mention Im from getbig ;)
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hahaha no doubt I get woman buying me drinks when I mention Im from getbig ;)
On a more serious note, it's crazy just how little I understood women (and, more generally, everything) back in my twenties. If only I knew then what I know now...
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Fuck, I'm barely 24
Child!!
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New MSNBC promo: You have the right to health care, education, housing, and food at all times
posted at 3:21 pm on April 10, 2013 by Allahpundit
Via Newsbusters, something to tide you over on a news day that started out fast and has slowed considerably. Give Harris-Perry credit, at least, for fine-tuning her messaging. You’re not going to sell swing voters on far-left liberalism by telling them their kids don’t really belong to them, but tell them that they have a right “at all times” to things they need and you’re golden. If you polled the public on whether people should have a right to all of this, where would the numbers top out? Seventy percent? Eighty? The American public loves, loves, loves government spending, partly because they’re never asked to consider the zero-sum nature of federal expenditures in a budget that balances and partly because they still don’t fully appreciate the consequences of endless borrowing. Both parties spent years shrugging at the fallacy that current spending levels can be supported by current tax rates. Under those circumstances, why wouldn’t the average low-information think everyone should have the right to housing, food, etc? Throw in the right to phone service and personal transportation while you’re at it. Put it on our collective tab.
Note, per Newsbusters, that she’s all for having the most productive members of society earn “a little more.” Whew. By the way, if you think these promos are bad now, just wait.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/10/new-msnbc-promo-you-have-the-right-to-health-care-education-housing-and-food-at-all-times
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New MSNBC promo: You have the right to health care, education, housing, and food at all times
posted at 3:21 pm on April 10, 2013 by Allahpundit
Via Newsbusters, something to tide you over on a news day that started out fast and has slowed considerably. Give Harris-Perry credit, at least, for fine-tuning her messaging. You’re not going to sell swing voters on far-left liberalism by telling them their kids don’t really belong to them, but tell them that they have a right “at all times” to things they need and you’re golden. If you polled the public on whether people should have a right to all of this, where would the numbers top out? Seventy percent? Eighty? The American public loves, loves, loves government spending, partly because they’re never asked to consider the zero-sum nature of federal expenditures in a budget that balances and partly because they still don’t fully appreciate the consequences of endless borrowing. Both parties spent years shrugging at the fallacy that current spending levels can be supported by current tax rates. Under those circumstances, why wouldn’t the average low-information think everyone should have the right to housing, food, etc? Throw in the right to phone service and personal transportation while you’re at it. Put it on our collective tab.
Note, per Newsbusters, that she’s all for having the most productive members of society earn “a little more.” Whew. By the way, if you think these promos are bad now, just wait.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/10/new-msnbc-promo-you-have-the-right-to-health-care-education-housing-and-food-at-all-times
hahahah holy shit these libtard fundies are bat shit crazy!!!
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Time to shut this post down. Here is what she ACTUALLY SAID
"We have never invested as much in public education as we should have because we've always had kind of a private notion of children: Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility. We haven't had a very collective notion of these are our children. So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it's everybody's responsibility, and not just the household's, then we start making better investments.
And she's absolutely correct.
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Time to shut this post down. Here is what she ACTUALLY SAID
"We have never invested as much in public education as we should have because we've always had kind of a private notion of children: Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility. We haven't had a very collective notion of these are our children. So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it's everybody's responsibility, and not just the household's, then we start making better investments.
And she's absolutely correct.
This was what she said?
Pip and Tony owe her an apology.
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Time to shut this post down. Here is what she ACTUALLY SAID
"We have never invested as much in public education as we should have because we've always had kind of a private notion of children: Your kid is yours and totally your responsibility. We haven't had a very collective notion of these are our children. So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it's everybody's responsibility, and not just the household's, then we start making better investments.
And she's absolutely correct.
hahah I watched the full clip before I posted...
She is not correct at all the kids belong to the parents, while the community obviously has a vested interest in their children they have no role in the values, beliefs and morals UNLESS THE PARENTS DEEM IT OK...
IE they do not belong to the community.
when you make "investments" you want a say in how those "investments" are made. It isnt up to the community to say how you should raise YOUR CHILD so long as the child is not in harm.
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New MSNBC promo: You have the right to health care, education, housing, and food at all times
posted at 3:21 pm on April 10, 2013 by Allahpundit
Via Newsbusters, something to tide you over on a news day that started out fast and has slowed considerably. Give Harris-Perry credit, at least, for fine-tuning her messaging. You’re not going to sell swing voters on far-left liberalism by telling them their kids don’t really belong to them, but tell them that they have a right “at all times” to things they need and you’re golden. If you polled the public on whether people should have a right to all of this, where would the numbers top out? Seventy percent? Eighty? The American public loves, loves, loves government spending, partly because they’re never asked to consider the zero-sum nature of federal expenditures in a budget that balances and partly because they still don’t fully appreciate the consequences of endless borrowing. Both parties spent years shrugging at the fallacy that current spending levels can be supported by current tax rates. Under those circumstances, why wouldn’t the average low-information think everyone should have the right to housing, food, etc? Throw in the right to phone service and personal transportation while you’re at it. Put it on our collective tab.
Note, per Newsbusters, that she’s all for having the most productive members of society earn “a little more.” Whew. By the way, if you think these promos are bad now, just wait.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/10/new-msnbc-promo-you-have-the-right-to-health-care-education-housing-and-food-at-all-times
did you two fundie libtards watch this clip as well?
Im guessing you two agree with this too
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hahah I watched the full clip before I posted...
She is not correct at all the kids belong to the parents, while the community obviously has a vested interest in their children they have no role in the values, beliefs and morals UNLESS THE PARENTS DEEM IT OK...
IE they do not belong to the community.
when you make "investments" you want a say in how those "investments" are made. It isnt up to the community to say how you should raise YOUR CHILD so long as the child is not in harm.
Contrary to Vince's warped claims, we know full well what Harris-Perry said.
"Investments in education" is simply a liberal euphemism for coughing up more tax money in crappy public schools, prepetually propping up unions and paying teachers, regardless of how badly they suck at educating our kids.
I'd venture a guess to say that what Harris-Perry doesn't like about the concept of kids belonging to their parents is that they (depending on status in life) have the option of bailing on public schools and putting their kids in a school that will actually get the job done (even if they have to pay for that school themselves).
I'm sure she'd find something "racist" about that.
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New MSNBC promo: You have the right to health care, education, housing, and food at all times
posted at 3:21 pm on April 10, 2013 by Allahpundit
Via Newsbusters, something to tide you over on a news day that started out fast and has slowed considerably. Give Harris-Perry credit, at least, for fine-tuning her messaging. You’re not going to sell swing voters on far-left liberalism by telling them their kids don’t really belong to them, but tell them that they have a right “at all times” to things they need and you’re golden. If you polled the public on whether people should have a right to all of this, where would the numbers top out? Seventy percent? Eighty? The American public loves, loves, loves government spending, partly because they’re never asked to consider the zero-sum nature of federal expenditures in a budget that balances and partly because they still don’t fully appreciate the consequences of endless borrowing. Both parties spent years shrugging at the fallacy that current spending levels can be supported by current tax rates. Under those circumstances, why wouldn’t the average low-information think everyone should have the right to housing, food, etc? Throw in the right to phone service and personal transportation while you’re at it. Put it on our collective tab.
Note, per Newsbusters, that she’s all for having the most productive members of society earn “a little more.” Whew. By the way, if you think these promos are bad now, just wait.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/10/new-msnbc-promo-you-have-the-right-to-health-care-education-housing-and-food-at-all-times
Says who?
I remember reading somewhere something to the tune of, If any man would not work, neither should he eat!!
Now, this dizzy woman seems to think she and her ilk can put a cap on how much "more" a hard-working American can have. I wonder if she'd be spewing this garbage, if conservatives put a cap as to how much $$$$ she can collect at Tulane with this foolishness.
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Contrary to Vince's warped claims, we know full well what Harris-Perry said.
"Investments in education" is simply a liberal euphemism for coughing up more tax money in crappy public schools, prepetually propping up unions and paying teachers, regardless of how badly they suck at educating our kids.
I'd venture a guess to say that what Harris-Perry doesn't like about the concept of kids belonging to their parents is that they (depending on status in life) have the option of bailing on public schools and putting their kids in a school that will actually get the job done (even if they have to pay for that school themselves).
I'm sure she'd find something "racist" about that.
She's simply saying that it takes a nation to raise a child....nothing more. Kids are the responsibility of the community as well because not all parents teach right from wrong.
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She's simply saying that it takes a nation to raise a child....nothing more. Kids are the responsibility of the community as well because not all parents teach right from wrong.
Careful. This is a dangerous line you're treading. The meaning of the aphorism you quote isn't quite as expansive as you make it out to be.
If little Johnny isn't taught right from wrong at home, you can't step in and play Mommy. It's true that we, as a society, currently try to instill some sense of morality through school but that is a dangerous game to play and it's not clear we should be playing it.
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She's simply saying that it takes a nation to raise a child....nothing more. Kids are the responsibility of the community as well because not all parents teach right from wrong.
You're nuts on this. Who's right and wrong are we talking about? The left's or right's version? None of that is the communities responsibility and it's insane to suggest any different. I absolutely don't want schools taking over the parent's responsibility in that area.
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Speaking as someone who's been involved in education (albeit at the University level) you only have yourself to blame for that: you elect school boards whose members don't have 3 brain cells to rub together, are just as uneducated as the dumb kids the school system pumps out, and believe that not only are they qualified to decide what children should learn, but how they should be taught and what textbooks should say.
I've stood before a school board, asking the idiots on the other side to not cut math and science funding in favor of sports and art and you know what the answer was: "I don't know nothing about calculus and I did fine. I'm on the school board! Sports teach discipline and art teaches students to expand their mind. Our students already know that if you let go of a box it will fall or that if 2 and 2 is four, they don't need a year of physics or math to teach them that."
Unfortunately THAT is the kind of person who gets elected to school boards.
And it shows. Because the average American kid who gets into University can't read English well, can't write English well, can't do basic math, can't study and, worse still, can't think. And you have kids from overseas who come to our Universities and run circles around our students without even trying.
No it won't. Not as long as those good teachers are required by their idiot bosses to do stupid things like teaching that mystical beliefs are on an equal footing with science.
There is a reason for all this.
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There is a reason for all this.
The owner's of the country want more creatures like Vince. They are seeking a low iq populace.
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Careful. This is a dangerous line you're treading. The meaning of the aphorism you quote isn't quite as expansive as you make it out to be.
If little Johnny isn't taught right from wrong at home, you can't step in and play Mommy. It's true that we, as a society, currently try to instill some sense of morality through school but that is a dangerous game to play and it's not clear we should be playing it.
It is a dangerous line.....but the fact is that the United States is a collective...there's only a disguise of freedom...try to not pay your taxes, renew your drivers license, get your car inspected, or threaten to kill the president and see what happens.
Your property can be seized under immenient domain
Your bank account can be seized by the IRS
You can be imprisoned indefinitely (Patriot Act)
Big Brother....psst....welco me to 1984....
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE6kmLiacrOLQ3gZn-WhfvL0vRR-ggxRKHvIW_PREJMKvqqRZR)
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The kid was bullied at the school for years and they didnt do squat.
It is a dangerous line.....but the fact is that the United States is a collective...there's only a disguise of freedom...try to not pay your taxes, renew your drivers license, get your car inspected, or threaten to kill the president and see what happens.
Your property can be seized under immenient domain
Your bank account can be seized by the IRS
You can be imprisoned indefinitely (Patriot Act)
Big Brother....psst....welco me to 1984....
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE6kmLiacrOLQ3gZn-WhfvL0vRR-ggxRKHvIW_PREJMKvqqRZR)
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In this collective it seems like they are collecting more from some than others.
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It is a dangerous line.....but the fact is that the United States is a collective...there's only a disguise of freedom...try to not pay your taxes, renew your drivers license, get your car inspected, or threaten to kill the president and see what happens.
A society must have certain laws - the legal framework under which we all agree to live. That legal framework has rules which include paying taxes, needing a drivers license to drive to exercise the privilege of driving and getting your car inspected if you want it on the public roadways.
I don't see what this has to do with the discussion at hand.
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In this collective it seems like they are collecting more from some than others.
thats b/c they view it as right
and according to vince its a ok for them to institutionalize your kids with their views of right and wrong
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A nation filled with children who grow up to be mindless homo's selling bee pollen on the internet?
I'm not taking ownership of that.
If you're a shitty parent and you raised shitty children, they are your problem. Keep them the fuck away from me.
The essence of the Democratic party is the continuous creation of an endless number of useless, mindless, worthless constituents who are too stupid to fend for themselves, too lazy to work a real job and will vote in droves for the slave master who keeps their parasitic lives functioning in perpetuity( aka government). Free food, free housing, illegal citizenship, affirmative action, government jobs for morons who would be better suited raking up trash on the highway, incompetent union slobs-- basically all the people who drag America into the toilet.
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A society must have certain laws - the legal framework under which we all agree to live. That legal framework has rules which include paying taxes, needing a drivers license to drive to exercise the privilege of driving and getting your car inspected if you want it on the public roadways.
I don't see what this has to do with the discussion at hand.
Nonsense. A free society means everything should be free for everyone who can't afford to pay. And those who can afford to pay, should pay for themselves and everyone else. Bigger government means more freedom. Don't you understand?
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A nation filled with children who grow up to be mindless homo's selling bee pollen on the internet?
I'm not taking ownership of that.
If you're a shitty parent and you raised shitty children, they are your problem. Keep them the fuck away from me.
The essence of the Democratic party is the continuous creation of an endless number of useless, mindless, worthless constituents who are too stupid to fend for themselves, too lazy to work a real job and will vote in droves for the slave master who keeps their parasitic lives functioning in perpetuity( aka government). Free food, free housing, illegal citizenship, affirmative action, government jobs for morons who would be better suited raking up trash on the highway, incompetent union slobs-- basically all the people who drag America into the toilet.
Exactly. The Democratic party is starting to resemble communist Soviet Union more and more each day. It was a failed experiment - why try it all over again?
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Bingo!
A nation filled with children who grow up to be mindless homo's selling bee pollen on the internet?
I'm not taking ownership of that.
If you're a shitty parent and you raised shitty children, they are your problem. Keep them the fuck away from me.
The essence of the Democratic party is the continuous creation of an endless number of useless, mindless, worthless constituents who are too stupid to fend for themselves, too lazy to work a real job and will vote in droves for the slave master who keeps their parasitic lives functioning in perpetuity( aka government). Free food, free housing, illegal citizenship, affirmative action, government jobs for morons who would be better suited raking up trash on the highway, incompetent union slobs-- basically all the people who drag America into the toilet.
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Exactly. The Democratic party is starting to resemble communist Soviet Union more and more each day. It was a failed experiment - why try it all over again?
I will admit, there is a lot of socialism in the Democratic party.
The USSR was not true communism so there's no point in talking about it.
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Nonsense. A free society means everything should be free for everyone who can't afford to pay. And those who can afford to pay, should pay for themselves and everyone else. Bigger government means more freedom. Don't you understand?
Sorry. I've always had a problem with baloney. And, come to think I it, irrational bullshit.
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On a more serious note, it's crazy just how little I understood women (and, more generally, everything) back in my twenties. If only I knew then what I know now...
Hahaha Now you sound like a woman.
If I knew then, ...what I know now, ...I would have been downright dangerous!
DANGEROUS I TELL YOU :D
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Hahaha Now you sound like a woman.
If I knew then, ...what I know now, ...I would have been downright dangerous!
DANGEROUS I TELL YOU :D
Dangerous? Hardly. But it's a fact that there's no substitute for experience or youth.
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The concept comes from an old African saying... "It take a village to raise a child." and I happen to agree with it.
The children are the future of humankind, and we should take full responsibility to ensure there is a future.
I treat other people's kids as if they were my own... to an extent. No I won't be buying them toys, or paying for their braces, ...but I believe I'm at least obligated to NOT steer them in a direction that could be hazardous. I can tell you it's rather annoying everytime I approach an intersection with a red light, ...there's no oncoming traffic, and I'm in a rush. Normally I will cross against the red, ...but if there are children present, ...I wait until the green comes on. It's so f-ing annoying to wait, ...but it kills me inside everytime I walk across, ...and see the kids following my example. I see nothing wrong with taking pro-active affirmative actions in favour of setting good examples or nurturing a positive environment for kids to grow up in... without infringing upon the rights of adults.
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Dangerous? Hardly. But it's a fact that there's no substitute for experience or youth.
Trust me, ...I would have been downright dangerous! :D
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The concept comes from an old African saying... "It take a village to raise a child." and I happen to agree with it.
The children are the future of humankind, and we should take full responsibility to ensure there is a future.
I treat other people's kids as if they were my own... to an extent. No I won't be buying them toys, or paying for their braces, ...but I believe I'm at least obligated to NOT steer them in a direction that could be hazardous. I can tell you it's rather annoying everytime I approach an intersection with a red light, ...there's no oncoming traffic, and I'm in a rush. Normally I will cross against the red, ...but if there are children present, ...I wait until the green comes on. It's so f-ing annoying to wait, ...but it kills me inside everytime I walk across, ...and see the kids following my example. I see nothing wrong with taking pro-active affirmative actions in favour of setting good examples or nurturing a positive environment for kids to grow up in... without infringing upon the rights of adults.
It sounds like you treat other people's kids like they were children. That just means you're not a sociopath. I don't see your point with this post?
While we're here; I treat other people's dogs as if they were my own. I won't buy them treats or take them to the vet...but I don't shoot them in the balls with my .22. There's NOTHING more annoying than seeing an old lady crossing the street with her puppy when I'm sitting at a stop sign, but I never run my tires over the little mutt's head...I wait until the light is green and I'm legally allowed to cross. It brings me to tears when I see kids following my "no excessive torturing" example and not throwing rocks at strays or trying to blind neighborhood dogs with their BB-guns...even when a clear shot presents itself.
I see nothing wrong with setting a good example and being awesome...without infringing upon the rights of the actual owner of the animal
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It sounds like you treat other people's kids like they were children. That just means you're not a sociopath. I don't see your point with this post?
While we're here; I treat other people's dogs as if they were my own. I won't buy them treats or take them to the vet...but I don't shoot them in the balls with my .22. There's NOTHING more annoying than seeing an old lady crossing the street with her puppy when I'm sitting at a stop sign, but I never run my tires over the little mutt's head...I wait until the light is green and I'm legally allowed to cross. It brings me to tears when I see kids following my "no excessive torturing" example and not throwing rocks at strays or trying to blind neighborhood dogs with their BB-guns...even when a clear shot presents itself.
I see nothing wrong with setting a good example and being awesome...without infringing upon the rights of the actual owner of the animal
OK, so I'm not the most articulate tonight. lol. I have a lot on my mind... I'm planning my vacation.
Let me try to say it another way.... I like the fact that the girly magazines are posted way high on the magazine rack behind covers so they cannot be easily displayed to kids. I like the fact that responsible adult wankers <pun intended> who have need of these poor substitutes do not have their rights infringed upon in order to protect the delicate eyes of the kiddies.
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The concept comes from an old African saying... "It take a village to raise a child." and I happen to agree with it.
The children are the future of humankind, and we should take full responsibility to ensure there is a future.
I treat other people's kids as if they were my own... to an extent. No I won't be buying them toys, or paying for their braces, ...but I believe I'm at least obligated to NOT steer them in a direction that could be hazardous. I can tell you it's rather annoying everytime I approach an intersection with a red light, ...there's no oncoming traffic, and I'm in a rush. Normally I will cross against the red, ...but if there are children present, ...I wait until the green comes on. It's so f-ing annoying to wait, ...but it kills me inside everytime I walk across, ...and see the kids following my example. I see nothing wrong with taking pro-active affirmative actions in favour of setting good examples or nurturing a positive environment for kids to grow up in... without infringing upon the rights of adults.
Yeah a lot of good that attitude is doing them in Africa. ::) ::) ::)
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It's really hard for me to describe the concept I'm talking about, but I have seen it in action in 1995 when visiting my cousin in the states. I was staying with him for a week, ...and he was showing me around the neighbourhood. I had asked him if the neighbourhood was safe, ...and he proceeded to show me around to show me how safe it was... because to quote him directly "You're tripping". Anyway, it was late at night 11:30 ish... and as we walked along, he would say hello to people sitting on their verandas etc., introduce me as his cousin who was staying with him etc., and at one point, we happened upon a 7 yr. old child. My cousin stopped him abruptly in his tracks... called him by name, and started to question him... What are you doing out? Does your mother know where you are? Where are you supposed to be right now? etc., etc., That little guy was scared shitless. lol. My cousin ordered him to get his little behind home NOW! The child gulped, and immediately went home, ...my cousin, along with many of the men in the neighbourhood acted like big brothers to many of the little kids there, and they all listened. They all knew who was who, whose kids was whose, and had a role to play in ensuring they weren't up to hooliganism, or just up to no good. I don't know if this was something that was in their community, or whether it was simply because of the high level of respect my cousin had within the community, that he was able to do this, ...but I thought it was a pretty neat thing to see a community taking responsibility for the kids in their community.
Any kid who grew up in Jamaica may know what I'm talking about. In jamaica, kids are terrified of acting up in school, because they know it's going to get back to their parents, ...but before it reaches their parents, it usually goes all throughout the community... and you end up getting crap from about 6 or 7 different people before you finally make it home... provided you make it home with your hide in tact... where your parents are just waiting to give you crap as well. lol.
Not that I agree with the notion that someone else has the right to physically punish your child, ...but I do think there is a place for voicing community standards within a community to bring a child up on the straight and narrow so to speak.
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Yeah a lot of good that attitude is doing them in Africa. ::) ::) ::)
That attitude built the highest and most civilized civilization this planet has ever known.
It wasn't that attitude that fucked Africa, it was the outside interventionism by uncivilized barbarians, and their desire to colonize. A desire that is still evident and acted upon to this day, ...or are you under the impression that the french are in Mali to get rid of AlQ who by the way has been armed to the teeth by your favourite obsession.
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That attitude built the highest and most civilized civilization this planet has ever known.
It wasn't that attitude that fucked Africa, it was the outside interventionism by uncivilized barbarians, and their desire to colonize. A desire that is still evident and acted upon to this day, ...or are you under the impression that the french are in Mali to get rid of AlQ who by the way has been armed to the teeth by your favourite obsession.
What civilization are you referring to?
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That attitude built the highest and most civilized civilization this planet has ever known.
It wasn't that attitude that fucked Africa, it was the outside interventionism by uncivilized barbarians, and their desire to colonize. A desire that is still evident and acted upon to this day, ...or are you under the impression that the french are in Mali to get rid of AlQ who by the way has been armed to the teeth by your favourite obsession.
What the fuck are you babbling about?
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Sorry. I've always had a problem with baloney. And, come to think I it, irrational bullshit.
That's racism in a nutshell. You're a reactionary extremist who is insensitive toward "historically disadvantaged" groups.
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That's racism in a nutshell. You're a reactionary extremist who is insensitive toward "historically disadvantaged" groups.
I'm insensitive all right. Against bullshit and the assholes that squeeze it out.
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Not only is every single thing that MHP said true, I'd absolutely love to fuck her hot tongue ringed mouth.
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I agree it takes a village - BUT the parent is the one who selects who is in that village.
If a teacher sucks, you pull your kid from that class. If Uncle Fester is a pedo bear, you keep your kid the #%^*#& away from him. Yes, every child ends up being the average of the FIVE people he/she spends the most time with. It's going to be teachers and neighbors and friends and clergy or whoever - not just mom and dad. But mom and dad can and should throw out any negative influences.
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I agree it takes a village - BUT the parent is the one who selects who is in that village.
If a teacher sucks, you pull your kid from that class. If Uncle Fester is a pedo bear, you keep your kid the #%^*#& away from him. Yes, every child ends up being the average of the FIVE people he/she spends the most time with. It's going to be teachers and neighbors and friends and clergy or whoever - not just mom and dad. But mom and dad can and should throw out any negative influences.
So does it take a village to raise a piece of shit savage too?
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So does it take a village to raise a piece of shit savage too?
YES! If a parent lets their kid run the neighborhood while he/she gets high and sleeps all day, then YES, the kid will grow up to be a piece of shit, thanks to negative influences.
I guess the 'it takes a village' really means parents alone don't do the job - but parents DO have the ability to limit these negative influences, and choose the RIGHT people to be around your kid.
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That attitude built the highest and most civilized civilization this planet has ever known.
Ruh-roh: I'm afraid you may be engaging in a Rousseauian glorification of natives here when the reality is that if that this civilization were so 'high' in the relevant sense, it wouldn't have succumbed to the predatory activity of European actors quite so easily.
That's presuming you're speaking of one of the African powers of the Medieval or early Modern period, since it's an African attitude you are referring to and because I somehow doubt you are referring to any of the various Arab powers that existed in North Africa.
But I'll let you clarify all this for us.
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Ruh-roh: I'm afraid you may be engaging in a Rousseauian glorification of natives here when the reality is that if that this civilization were so 'high' in the relevant sense, it wouldn't have succumbed to the predatory activity of European actors quite so easily.
There's no relevant sense here. I never understood people who casually overlook (or outright dismiss) civilizations that laid the foundation for the future and left us a rich history of mathematics, science, art and philosophy, in favor of paying attention to African tribes that barely subsisted and (maybe) lived in straw huts.
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I understand where the woman is coming from, but she overstated her point. I think we do have some obligation to look out for each other and if we see something that is of concern, we should say something. We should try and be mentors and advisors for kids, to the extent they want advice. But the ultimate responsibility for the care and training of kids belongs to the parents, not the community.
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I understand where the woman is coming from, but she overstated her point. I think we do have some obligation to look out for each other and if we see something that is of concern, we should say something. We should try and be mentors and advisors for kids, to the extent they want advice. But the ultimate responsibility for the care and training of kids belongs to the parents, not the community.
The contours of my position are about the same, even if we might differ on a detail here or there.
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since I have to pay school taxes and dont have any any rugrats in school, yeah, I guess they do belong to me...i help support them.
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since I have to pay school taxes and dont have any any rugrats in school, yeah, I guess they do belong to me...i help support them.
My taxes go to public schools, even though my kids have never attended them (and will never attend them, if I have anything to say about it). Yet, those other kids don't belong to me....and I frankly don't want them. I'm quite content with my own.
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I agree it takes a village - BUT the parent is the one who selects who is in that village.
If a teacher sucks, you pull your kid from that class. If Uncle Fester is a pedo bear, you keep your kid the #%^*#& away from him. Yes, every child ends up being the average of the FIVE people he/she spends the most time with. It's going to be teachers and neighbors and friends and clergy or whoever - not just mom and dad. But mom and dad can and should throw out any negative influences.
If Uncle Fester is a pedo bear, you keep Uncle Fester the #%^*#& away from your kid, ...and everybody else's.
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Ruh-roh: I'm afraid you may be engaging in a Rousseauian glorification of natives here when the reality is that if that this civilization were so 'high' in the relevant sense, it wouldn't have succumbed to the predatory activity of European actors quite so easily.
That's presuming you're speaking of one of the African powers of the Medieval or early Modern period, since it's an African attitude you are referring to and because I somehow doubt you are referring to any of the various Arab powers that existed in North Africa.
But I'll let you clarify all this for us.
Don't presume a thing.
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I understand where the woman is coming from, but she overstated her point. I think we do have some obligation to look out for each other and if we see something that is of concern, we should say something. We should try and be mentors and advisors for kids, to the extent they want advice. But the ultimate responsibility for the care and training of kids belongs to the parents, not the community.
The woman? ??? lol :D ok...
I agree... the ultimate responsibility for the care and training of kids belongs rests with the parents,
...however the ultimate responsibility for the building & development of a sound community, rests with the community.
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since I have to pay school taxes and dont have any any rugrats in school, yeah, I guess they do belong to me...i help support them.
And you have the right to demand your taxes make a meaningful contribution, and are NOT simply wasted,
...especially since you're making a relatively greater contribution with clearly less benefit than those with kids in the system.
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:-X :-X :-X
MSNBC Host: Your Kids Belong to the Collective
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
April 6, 2013
In the video below, college professor and MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry says your children are not yours – they are owned by the community. She says public education has failed because we have not allowed the state to confiscate more of our money.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
“We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families,” says the professor of political science at Tulane University, where she is founding director of the Anna Julia Cooper Project on Gender, Race, and Politics in the South. Kids belong to whole communities, she insists, and once we realize this we’ll make “better investments” in government indoctrination of children.
http://www.infowars.com/your-kids-belong-to-the-collective/
People like this are going to initiate the end of days. Luckly i dont live in america.
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I never understood people who casually overlook (or outright dismiss) civilizations that laid the foundation for the future and left us a rich history of mathematics, science, art and philosophy, in favor of paying attention to African tribes that barely subsisted and (maybe) lived in straw huts.
It may be easier to overlook such civilizations when one doesn't understand their contributions: e.g., while I imagine it's unfathomable for you to ignore the contributions that the invention of, say, calculus or set theory have made to mathematics, someone who knows squat about math can discount them rather easily. Combine this with a conscious effort on the part of many educators to deemphasize European contributions and emphasize twice over contributions made by anybody who isn't European, and I think the 'overlooking' phenomenon starts to make sense (in my experience, these educators are simply trying to highlight what they feel has been neglected in classrooms of yore).
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It may be easier to overlook such civilizations when one doesn't understand their contributions: e.g., while I imagine it's unfathomable for you to ignore the contributions that the invention of, say, calculus or set theory have made to mathematics, someone who knows squat about math can discount them rather easily. Combine this with a conscious effort on the part of many educators to deemphasize European contributions and emphasize twice over contributions made by anybody who isn't European, and I think the 'overlooking' phenomenon starts to make sense (in my experience, these educators are simply trying to highlight what they feel has been neglected in classrooms of yore).
Good thoughts, syntax.
It's the classroom environment succumbing to the multicultural/equalization approach to education. At times it is the educators trying to cover what they see as neglected topics and sometimes it's a directive handed down from the administration. In my experience it has been the latter rather than the former.
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It may be easier to overlook such civilizations when one doesn't understand their contributions: e.g., while I imagine it's unfathomable for you to ignore the contributions that the invention of, say, calculus or set theory have made to mathematics, someone who knows squat about math can discount them rather easily. Combine this with a conscious effort on the part of many educators to deemphasize European contributions and emphasize twice over contributions made by anybody who isn't European, and I think the 'overlooking' phenomenon starts to make sense (in my experience, these educators are simply trying to highlight what they feel has been neglected in classrooms of yore).
Excellent post. I hadn't really thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense (you know, in a twisted way).
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The woman? ??? lol :D ok...
I agree... the ultimate responsibility for the care and training of kids belongs rests with the parents,
...however the ultimate responsibility for the building & development of a sound community, rests with the community.
You have a problem with me calling the woman who made the comment a woman??
The community's role in building and developing a sound community begins in the home with strong families. Outside of that, the community builds and develops a sound community through an orderly system of support (police, fire, roads, schools, commerce, etc.) and by enacting rules that govern the community.
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You have a problem with me calling the woman who made the comment a woman??
I have no problem with you calling me a woman. It's just given our "relationship", I thought it was kind of funny. If you re-read your comment, in the right tone, I'm sure you will find the humour in it as well.
Wasn't at first sure if you were referring to me or Melissa Harris Perry.
The community's role in building and developing a sound community begins in the home with strong families. Outside of that, the community builds and develops a sound community through an orderly system of support (police, fire, roads, schools, commerce, etc.) and by enacting rules that govern the community.
Agreed, however when the foundation of a sound community is eroding, it is the responsibility of that sound society to fortify it... IF that sound community wants to remain sound. To deny otherwise IMO is akin to saying even though I have to walk across this tightrope, it's not my responsibility to make sure it's not frayed, and is strong enough to bear my weight. Or saying if I'm going to be shot, it's not my responsibility to ensure the gun is loaded with blanks. Would you really want to leave it up to ME to ensure the bullets that will shoot you or your family are blanks? :D
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I have no problem with you calling me a woman. It's just given our "relationship", I thought it was kind of funny. If you re-read your comment, in the right tone, I'm sure you will find the humour in it as well.
Wasn't at first sure if you were referring to me or Melissa Harris Perry.
Agreed, however when the foundation of a sound community is eroding, it is the responsibility of that sound society to fortify it... IF that sound community wants to remain sound. To deny otherwise IMO is akin to saying even though I have to walk across this tightrope, it's not my responsibility to make sure it's not frayed, and is strong enough to bear my weight. Or saying if I'm going to be shot, it's not my responsibility to ensure the gun is loaded with blanks. Would you really want to leave it up to ME to ensure the bullets that will shoot you or your family are blanks? :D
I was referring to Perry.
The community fortifies itself in many ways (the ones I already mentioned). It doesn't do so by inserting itself into the parent-child relationship, unless there is a specific need (neglect, crime, etc.).
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I was referring to Perry.
The community fortifies itself in many ways (the ones I already mentioned). It doesn't do so by inserting itself into the parent-child relationship, unless there is a specific need (neglect, crime, etc.).
I wasn't referring to inserting oneself into the parent-child relationship, but rather taking an active role in supporting high community standards and not undermining them.
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I wasn't referring to inserting oneself into the parent-child relationship, but rather taking an active role in supporting high community standards and not undermining them.
Whatever - any time someone tries that the usual suspects cry racism, bigotry etc .
We are in a dumbing down process now because of the need for "community" so the shitheads and parasites can feel accepted and ok with their failures.
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I wasn't referring to inserting oneself into the parent-child relationship, but rather taking an active role in supporting high community standards and not undermining them.
Your position here seems contradictory to the one you put forward in the morning after pill thread.
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Whatever - any time someone tries that the usual suspects cry racism, bigotry etc .
We are in a dumbing down process now because of the need for "community" so the shitheads and parasites can feel accepted and ok with their failures.
This is a valid point.
Do we let the community turn our children into idiots because of the need to succumb to the lowest common denominator?
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I wasn't referring to inserting oneself into the parent-child relationship, but rather taking an active role in supporting high community standards and not undermining them.
I agree, although taking an active role in supporting high community standards does not mean the community--rather than the parents--is responsible for raising kids.
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Good thoughts, syntax.
It's the classroom environment succumbing to the multicultural/equalization approach to education. At times it is the educators trying to cover what they see as neglected topics and sometimes it's a directive handed down from the administration. In my experience it has been the latter rather than the former.
Excellent post. I hadn't really thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense (you know, in a twisted way).
Incidentally, I just cracked open my copy of the Norton History of the Mathematical Sciences to look for non-European contributions to mathematics and/or independent originations of mathematics. There are a decent amount of pages on various East Asian cultures, the Egyptians, the Babylonians, a bit on Mayan glyphs, the numerous Arab mathematicians, a bit on Hebrew math, and the Indians. Africa only takes up a three page portion of this 800+ page book, and the section only exists to describe Paleolithic humans in Africa who may have used notches on bones for some rudimentary counting. There's literally nothing to account for by 'Africans' in the normal sense of the word. :-\
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Whatever - any time someone tries that the usual suspects cry racism, bigotry etc .
We are in a dumbing down process now because of the need for "community" so the shitheads and parasites can feel accepted and ok with their failures.
Based on the stupid shit you write, it's pretty clear your processing was accelerated & completed a long time ago.
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Based on the stupid shit you write, it's pretty clear your processing was accelerated & completed a long time ago.
LOL - how was prison?
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Your position here seems contradictory to the one you put forward in the morning after pill thread.
It may seem that way, but I believe it is consistent. Realistically, if a girl wants to maintain her privacy to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, she will do so, ...and becomes even more vulnerable to being sold aspirin, ...or far worse. Her parents weren't there when she had sex, ...they don't need to be there if she decides she needs a MAP.
Quick response 'cause too lazy to fully articulate from iPad.
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I agree, although taking an active role in supporting high community standards does not mean the community--rather than the parents--is responsible for raising kids.
I think we may actually be on the same sheet of music, ...with minor differences in the details.