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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: OTHstrong on August 11, 2013, 10:14:37 AM
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OK let me explain a few things in simple terms so you guys understand.
I have had more blood work done in the last ten years then I can count.
Now the range for human test levels is from 300-1100 and that is being generous, most charts say average 300-850, which means that it is 1 in a million to be above those levels and it is nearly unheard off. in the case that any natural is above that we are talking by just 10%, which I doubt but I will give someone with the most insane genetics a 1200ng PER dl count, trust me, nobody would score this high naturally.
Now take one guy with shitty genetics and give him 1 shot of test per week, within a couple of weeks his test levels will smash those of the most genetically gifted naturals on the planet and you guys know full well that someone with the shitiest genetics on a shot a week could never ever look like some of these natural bodybuilder, yet he scores higher.
Even 5 shots of test per week has the charts saying greater then 5000 ng PER dl. So if a natural take even 2 shots per week he is tripling if not quadrupling his natural production, hence this is why they are dumb enough to claim natural cause they feel ''only 2 or 3 shots'' ''nobody will know'', while they don't realize that even that low amounts triples your natural limits.
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Great post. Great.
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Are you saying that no one who competes and looks good is natural?
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OTH, where does heme-iron fit into the equation.
I await your response.
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OTH, where does heme-iron fit into the equation.
I await your response.
who is hemi iron?, sorry my mind is not all there today
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(http://gymtalking.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/guys-la-shots-20.jpg)
All claim Natty.
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Are you saying that no one who competes and looks good is natural?
no, what I am saying is that someone with bad genetics should, giving as much roids as needed and considering he does not have fat genes, be able to surpass anyone natural, as the reason that someone with bad genetics has bad genetics is because he has low test levels and to take that out of the equation there is an even playing field.
But you do not see these guys beating guys like Layne Norton any time soon, do you?
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no, what I am saying is that someone with bad genetics should, giving as much roids as needed and considering he does not have fat genes, be able to surpass anyone natural, as the reason that someone with bad genetics has bad genetics is because he has low test levels and to take that out of the equation there is an even playing field.
But you do not see these guys beating guys like Layne Norton any time soon, do you?
But what about muscle insertions and tie in , balance , symmetry its just not down to test levels surely?
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But what about muscle insertions and tie in , balance , symmetry its just not down to test levels surely?
we are not talking about that, we are talking about shredded muscle.
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so this guy
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGNk5Oriu0s/0.jpg)
can surpass this guy, just by taking steroids?
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/874/imagehtml.jpg)
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Good post, could I ask a question?
Suppose you had a guy, who claimed he was natural, meaning he has never taken Prohormones or AAS.
Let's say the guy takes every supplement under the sun. While some supplements could have natural sources (BCAA, Creatine, Whey, etc.), they are all manufactured in labs or factories.
In this situation, can the guy still claim "natural"? Or is a new term needed to define those that say "I don't take illegal substances"?
Just wondering...
Yes he can still claim natural because non of the compounds you mention elevate your testosterone levels.
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who is hemi iron?, sorry my mind is not all there today
According to Johnny Falcon, heme-iron is the cause of cancer. Heme iron is found in many foods. :-\ :-\ :-\
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so this guy
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGNk5Oriu0s/0.jpg)
can surpass this guy, just by taking steroids?
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/874/imagehtml.jpg)
how the fuck would you be able to know?
do we really need to break out the pics of levrone, dillet, yates, et al. looking like complete bottom-feeding twinks?
(http://gymtalking.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/guys-la-shots-20.jpg)
All claim Natty.
bunch of assholes, need to be tossed in the oven
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how the fuck would you be able to know?
do we really need to break out the pics of levrone, dillet, yates, et al. looking like complete bottom-feeding twinks?
bunch of assholes, need to be tossed in the oven
I dont know, you are right, but OTH seems to know that anabolics can make almost "anyone" better than a natural.
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nah he needs new life first.
i just wanted to add that i read somewhere on the internet that during puberty , males produce as much as 36iu gh daily.
fucking hell.that makes gh15 look like moderate guy.
now, 1 test shot eekly, say enanthate, thatll be what, minus the ester, some 180mgs, ie, 20-25mgs daily.
thats more like 5 times the test levels of natural male whos 25+ age.
Ya but we are rounding to the highest possible levels a human being can have naturally, which would still be way more then double at only one shot per week.
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I dont know, you are right, but OTH seems to know that anabolics can make almost "anyone" better than a natural.
OK explain yourself then, the diet is in check, the training is in check the AAS is in check, even with crappiest genetics in the world the guy will still be big and shredded, if you claim he will not be then explain to us the boundary limits and what is the cause of him not being big and shredded, you can't cause that is all the variables needed to be big and shredded, nothing more, this is not rocket science here bro.
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Man JJ is jacked there.
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ALL LIARS.
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According to Johnny Falcon, heme-iron is the cause of cancer. Heme iron is found in many foods. :-\ :-\ :-\
OH hemi-iron, lmao, I thought you were referring to some natural that calls himself hemi-iron and were asking if he was natural, lol, jeez I am dumb sometimes :D
ALL FILTHY LIARS.
FIXED ;)
yah i fiercly believe that everyone who follows diet properly,all the time,with some overeating rather than not abiding by the 200gramm protein daily rule, and trains right(not swinging weights)and uses evem just hrt he will develop an impressive body.will take time but will happen
exactly, totally agree
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so this guy
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGNk5Oriu0s/0.jpg)
can surpass this guy, just by taking steroids?
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/874/imagehtml.jpg)
Obviously a before and after of the same dude. lol
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so this guy
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGNk5Oriu0s/0.jpg)
can surpass this guy, just by taking steroids?
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/874/imagehtml.jpg)
Throw this guy on 1000mg a week and have him train and eat like a bodybuilder then yes he can be bigger and more shredded then that guy, will never look as good because that guy has awesome muscle insertions but he could carry more ripped muscle.
If you think he can't EINSTEIN then please explain to us your scientific reasonings for him not being able to.
The test is there, the training is there, the diet is there, nothing more is needed from a scientific point of view, NOTHING, waiting for your response.
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So, do you have this science down so precisely that you could make a hypothetical guess as to where a guy who has 400 nanongrams per decilitre naturally takes one shot of Enanthate @ 250 mg (minus ester of carboxylic acid) a week would be on the ng per dl chart post injection?
Just curious...
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So, do you have this science down so precisely that you could make a hypothetical guess as to where a guy who has 400 nanongrams per decilitre naturally takes one shot of Enanthate @ 250 mg (minus ester of carboxylic acid) a week would be on the ng per dl chart post injection?
Just curious...
yes absolutely but it varies tremendously per individual. The ones with the worse genetics will score over 1000 ng PER dl and the ones with super genetics for absorption would score as high as 2000ng PER dl OFF A SINGLE SHOT per week.
Now saying that someone with horrendous genetics will not get those numbers is the equivalent as saying someone might not get drunk with a liter of vodka due to his genetics, not happening.
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Exogenous hormones/black genetics(lol, ;D) = Cheating/not natural
Creatine/Protein Powder/Tribulus/EC = still natural
I don't see the point of your post. Even if so called "natural" bb'ers justify injecting exogenous hormones based on poorly misunderstood facts, nonetheless, they're still cheating.
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OTH, I honestly respect your advice bro, but tell my why then at 700testp/700trena/900eq I still didn't turn into a mass monster? Granted my gear was prob weak and I ate to stay somewhat lean (for the most part). I think some don't respond as simply as described
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OTH, I honestly respect your advice bro, but tell my why then at 700testp/700trena/900eq I still didn't turn into a mass monster? Granted my gear was prob weak and I ate to stay somewhat lean (for the most part). I think some don't respond as simply as described
Yeah, not everyone who hops on gear turns huge. It's sad and disappointing actually.
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I beat many steroid users in BB shows , they were bigger than me but I was leaner and better shape/symmetry/proportions.............
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I beat many steroid users in BB shows , they were bigger than me but I was leaner and better shape/symmetry/proportions.............
By "beat" do you mean handjobs? ;D
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By "beat" do you mean handjobs? ;D
:-X
Yes ;D
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A lot of rationalization to justify sticking a syringe in your ass to have muscles that are reliant upon to continued use of outside testosterone derivatives.
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OTH, I honestly respect your advice bro, but tell my why then at 700testp/700trena/900eq I still didn't turn into a mass monster? Granted my gear was prob weak and I ate to stay somewhat lean (for the most part). I think some don't respond as simply as described
a mass monster? it takes 3 times that amount to be a mass monster, sorry, if by a mass monster you are talking about the size of a pro.
Did you or did you not surpass these numbers? since I don't know your stats I will throw numbers at you
5 foot 6 175 lean
5 foot 9 190 lean
6 foot 205-210 lean
6 foot 3 220-225 lean
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Yeah, not everyone who hops on gear turns huge. It's sad and disappointing actually.
anyone who hops on gear can surpass the natural limitation considering their diet is in check, their training is in check, rest and they do not have a problem with body fat issues like thyroid etc
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A lot of rationalization to justify sticking a syringe in your ass to have muscles that are reliant upon to continued use of outside testosterone derivatives.
are you or are you not on a bodybuilding site?
good, then STFU please, save the HS for your facebook and twitter accounts.
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a mass monster? it takes 3 times that amount to be a mass monster, sorry, if by a mass monster you are talking about the size of a pro.
Did you or did you not surpass these numbers? since I don't know your stats I will throw numbers at you
5 foot 6 175 lean
5 foot 9 190 lean
6 foot 205-210 lean
6 foot 3 220-225 lean
Those are good numbers. I have trained for 33 yrs and can't never get past around 170# at 5'4. I quess some can get bigger naturally but not me.
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Those are good numbers. I have trained for 33 yrs and can't never get past around 170# at 5'4. I quess some can get bigger naturally but not me.
I think those are the natural limits IMO from what I have seen throughout my years.
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I think those are the natural limits IMO from what I have seen throughout my years.
Pretty good limits, but I think it will take a long time to get there for most guys.
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Pretty good limits, but I think it will take a long time to get there for most guys.
Oh ya, for sure, those are limits for the genetically gifted most will not see these number ever. and we are talking in condition though.
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what is your defintion of lean ,though.
abs visible, or striations on quads shining through?
xmas tree coming out?
Those numbers are for stage ready condition, however natural stage read is not as lean juice head stage ready so I would say a tad more bodyfat then you have as you would be more shredded then natural stage ready. I am also talking the best of the best, not average, we are talking top of the food chain
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Those numbers are for stage ready condition, however natural stage read is not as lean juice head stage ready so I would say a tad more bodyfat then you have as you would be more shredded then natural stage ready. I am also talking the best of the best, not average, we are talking top of the food chain
I don't know about stage ready. If we are talking about stage ready, the numbers would be at least 10 pounds lighter.
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i think that the name of "natural" bodybuilder beter to be changed to NO-USING-PED bodybuilder.
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i think that the name of "natural" bodybuilder beter to be changed to NO-USING-PED bodybuilder.
look who's here posting about natural bodybuilding
you piece of lying shit
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Anybody that takes enough AAS will grow larger and stronger with training. Anybody. Just look at the so called "women" that take that stuff to see the truth of it.
Genetics only come into play with regard to muscle instertions, length and the like. Tom Prince is a princess without the juice as is Paul Dillet and so many others. Ronnie Coleman is deflating as we speak. Dorain Yates is pretty darn normal looking for such a genetic freak.
I agree with the OP with regard to this stuff. He knows what he's talking about and what he says seems to me to be pretty spot on. Franco Columbu, anyone?
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well, firstly, test p at 700 is kinda little, 700tren a is kinda unnecesary high for that purpose and eq is weaksauce.
so we have, kinda poor gear choice, potentialy underdos or fake gear, diet we dont know, very vague description, and maybe you train like shit.maybe you dont focus on the muscle working.
thats still a huge dosage overall, so somethings wrong there.
and....for how long did you run that gear?
get something like this, 500mg test e weekly which you 100 percent know its real, run that for 2 years non stop, eat properly, train almost every day.
then and no sooner see how far you go.
have a ersonal trainer show you and obsrve ALL of your exrecises, and tell you if your form is good.im not joking.i need this myself for some bodyparts after 10 years+ of training.
eat 200 gramm protein minimum every day, all days, absolute minimum.not shakes, eat food.or even more protein.the rest moderate amounts.
then after 2 years, if that didnt work, only then you can say gear doesnt make everyone respond the same way.
even on gear, takes time.i dont know what the hell ppl think, gear doesnt accelerate the process much, it just help breaking through the natural limits, increases recovery and helps greatly with dieting.other than that, theres no magic to it.
I appreciate the advice. I have been on test-e at 500 or more for about at least 9 months (going off memory prob longer cuz I started with hrt dose, can't recall when I bumped). Ran Deca/EQ at some point while on the test. The Deca made a difference, certainly not massive, but noticeable, 12-14 or so weeks isn't a lot of time in the grand scheme of things I guess. Then hopped on the tren/eq/testp, been on this since somewhere in june I want to say. The first batch of tren (different brand) I had was great, either that or I just responded well to it being a new compound. I you are right, this shit takes time. Training is pretty good, I had a trainer a yr ago for the purpose of critiquing things.
a mass monster? it takes 3 times that amount to be a mass monster, sorry, if by a mass monster you are talking about the size of a pro.
Did you or did you not surpass these numbers? since I don't know your stats I will throw numbers at you
5 foot 6 175 lean
5 foot 9 190 lean
6 foot 205-210 lean
6 foot 3 220-225 lean
Bro I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if they mega dose, it's just that I often hear on the board all one needs to get big is slightly above hrt dose w some mast. Perhaps some can make significant gains on that but I can't. I'm roughly 6'2" sitting at 219lb, not sure of bf at the moment because I was measured a few months back, have full abs but look a little watery/smooth overall, though nothing major (I switched to test e @ 1g); veins pop out everywhere on my arms when working out. I'd say one of my biggest problems is moderating my diet, specifically carbs. Too low and I swear I shrivel up (and it's not glycogen loss, my muscle goes bye bye) and weak in the gym (no access to ephedrine and caffeine isn't much help), too much carbs and well we both know what happens there, but carbs pack muscle on me. Your advice is appreciated
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Are you saying that no one who competes and looks good is natural?
No such thing as natural.
Never was.
Never will be.
All naturals look like sacks of shit.
All natural events are a fraud.
The one's that don't respond well to gear -- will go their entire lives pointing fingers and claiming natural status.
I got close friends who compete in natural events, but prep on test and tren. These pieces of shit should be given a Colombian necktie. Actually, let's be fair - it's only natural for humans to lie, since they are still filthy liars perhaps a frontal lobotomy without anesthesia is enough.
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Throw this guy on 1000mg a week and have him train and eat like a bodybuilder then yes he can be bigger and more shredded then that guy, will never look as good because that guy has awesome muscle insertions but he could carry more ripped muscle.
If you think he can't EINSTEIN then please explain to us your scientific reasonings for him not being able to.
The test is there, the training is there, the diet is there, nothing more is needed from a scientific point of view, NOTHING, waiting for your response.
Ready for it....because no matter what some people take it just doesn't work.
How many guys are taking multiple grams of gear yet still look like shit?
The gear is in the system, they eat right, they train like animals, and the result is they still look like shit, explain that with your bro science?
PS I notice you have now reverted to "can be" as opposed to will be.
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No such thing as natural.
Never was.
Never will be.
All naturals look like sacks of shit.
All natural events are a fraud.
The one's that don't respond well to gear -- will go their entire lives pointing fingers and claiming natural status.
I got close friends who compete in natural events, but prep on test and tren. These pieces of shit should be given a Colombian necktie. Actually, let's be fair - it's only natural for humans to lie, since they are still filthy liars perhaps a frontal lobotomy without anesthesia is enough.
And the ones that have shit genetics always point at the ones with good genetics for bodybuilding and say "its all drugs"
Some people have no idea what is actually acheiveable without drugs, in fact they appear to believe litteraly nothing is achievable
FFS we had people in another thread saying Tiger Woods is using PEDS to achive his look ::)
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look who's here posting about natural bodybuilding
you piece of lying shit
QFT
musclecenter is NOT lifetime natural, ever
i would say MC is on low dose 500mg test./week @ least now
60 year old asian men cannot be muscular and lean liek he is without steroids
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"natural BB" truthfully means steroid users but with lousy genetics for BB
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I don't use whey protein, creatine or any supplements so I really am natural 8)
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I don't know about stage ready. If we are talking about stage ready, the numbers would be at least 10 pounds lighter.
I actually hold your view, so yes you are right, I am just giving heavy numbers so people do not think I am favoring my point, 10lb less as you say actually pronounces my point all the more. ;)
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Ready for it....because no matter what some people take it just doesn't work.
How many guys are taking multiple grams of gear yet still look like shit?
The gear is in the system, they eat right, they train like animals, and the result is they still look like shit, explain that with your bro science?
PS I notice you have now reverted to "can be" as opposed to will be.
You are splitting hairs in regards to my words, can or will? who gives a shit, stop being a reject here.
Now back to the point, you keep saying looking good or looking like shit, well brother that is not even part of the argument here. the argument is that the worse genetics on the planet will grow shit loads of muscle on gear, wether he looks good with the added muscle or not is irrelevant to this discussion.
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I appreciate the advice. I have been on test-e at 500 or more for about at least 9 months (going off memory prob longer cuz I started with hrt dose, can't recall when I bumped). Ran Deca/EQ at some point while on the test. The Deca made a difference, certainly not massive, but noticeable, 12-14 or so weeks isn't a lot of time in the grand scheme of things I guess. Then hopped on the tren/eq/testp, been on this since somewhere in june I want to say. The first batch of tren (different brand) I had was great, either that or I just responded well to it being a new compound. I you are right, this shit takes time. Training is pretty good, I had a trainer a yr ago for the purpose of critiquing things.
Bro I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if they mega dose, it's just that I often hear on the board all one needs to get big is slightly above hrt dose w some mast. Perhaps some can make significant gains on that but I can't. I'm roughly 6'2" sitting at 219lb, not sure of bf at the moment because I was measured a few months back, have full abs but look a little watery/smooth overall, though nothing major (I switched to test e @ 1g); veins pop out everywhere on my arms when working out. I'd say one of my biggest problems is moderating my diet, specifically carbs. Too low and I swear I shrivel up (and it's not glycogen loss, my muscle goes bye bye) and weak in the gym (no access to ephedrine and caffeine isn't much help), too much carbs and well we both know what happens there, but carbs pack muscle on me. Your advice is appreciated
Do you have abs, cause if you do then 219 is not bad at all. Now consider your lifestyle, sleep, rest, food, do you drink, party, rec drugs, this all plays a factor in you not being 240 instead of 220.
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And the ones that have shit genetics always point at the ones with good genetics for bodybuilding and say "its all drugs"
Some people have no idea what is actually acheiveable without drugs, in fact they appear to believe litteraly nothing is achievable
FFS we had people in another thread saying Tiger Woods is using PEDS to achive his look ::)
All you have to do is look at the 50's bodybuilders and maybe some in the 60's to know what is achievable or not and please tell me you are not going to give the same stupid response that everyone else does....
''well we have better supplements now'' please, stop being so naive.
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OK let me explain a few things in simple terms so you guys understand.
I have had more blood work done in the last ten years then I can count.
Now the range for human test levels is from 300-1100 and that is being generous, most charts say average 300-850, which means that it is 1 in a million to be above those levels and it is nearly unheard off. in the case that any natural is above that we are talking by just 10%, which I doubt but I will give someone with the most insane genetics a 1200ng PER dl count, trust me, nobody would score this high naturally.
Now take one guy with shitty genetics and give him 1 shot of test per week, within a couple of weeks his test levels will smash those of the most genetically gifted naturals on the planet and you guys know full well that someone with the shitiest genetics on a shot a week could never ever look like some of these natural bodybuilder, yet he scores higher.
Even 5 shots of test per week has the charts saying greater then 5000 ng PER dl. So if a natural take even 2 shots per week he is tripling if not quadrupling his natural production, hence this is why they are dumb enough to claim natural cause they feel ''only 2 or 3 shots'' ''nobody will know'', while they don't realize that even that low amounts triples your natural limits.
What about the Heme-Iron though? The community needs to know
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All you have to do is look at the 50's bodybuilders and maybe some in the 60's to know what is achievable or not and please tell me you are not going to give the same stupid response that everyone else does....
''well we have better supplements now'' please, stop being so naive.
Eugene Sandow looked better than a lot of guys who take multiple grams of PEDS.
Go figure.
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QFT
musclecenter is NOT lifetime natural, ever
i would say MC is on low dose 500mg test./week @ least now
60 year old asian men cannot be muscular and lean liek he is without steroids
Asians are naturally pretty lean and have not so bad genetics
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Some guys are born to be flimsy and estrogen filled. I think that when the body's saturated by estrogen for those crucial development years it really sets the stage. However, I have seen some pussies grow into shredded alpha beasts but some guys simply aren't cut out to make muscles.
I think that damn near anyone can juice and grow huge with the right tut kind of mentor. But if he doesn't enjoy it and doesn't have a taste for that iron you can't spoon feed it to them and expect much else.