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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on October 01, 2013, 03:42:17 PM
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I don't expect the short attention span crowd on this board to get through this but I think the author is correct in the motivation by the GOP at large
I also think the TeaParty people in Congress, much like those same people on this board are not actually self aware enough to understand this reasoning
They just hate it because they hate everything about Obama and that's all they need
good article though and worth a read
October 1, 2013
Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
By EDUARDO PORTER
This spring, the Missouri Chamber of Commerce urged the state Legislature to accept the federal government’s plan to expand Medicaid for the poor and disabled.
The business lobbying group had not suddenly gone rogue. Here is how Daniel P. Mehan, its president, summarized his feelings about President Obama’s health care law: “We don’t like it.”
But the Chamber was cognizant of the plea of its members directly affected by the issue: dozens of Missouri hospitals stood to lose $4.2 billion over six years in federal support for uncompensated care if the state refused to increase the income ceiling for Medicaid eligibility.
Pragmatism suggested accepting the expansion. Washington would pay the extra cost entirely for three years and pick up 90 percent of the bill thereafter.
And it would expand health coverage in the state’s poor, predominantly white rural counties, which voted consistently to put Republican lawmakers into office.
Missouri’s Republican-controlled Legislature — heavy with Tea Party stalwarts — rejected Medicaid’s expansion in the state anyway.
After their vote, a frustrated editorial in the faithfully conservative Missourian asked of the state’s elected Republicans: “Who Do They Represent?”
Today, the same forces that blocked the expansion of Medicaid in Missouri are going all out in Washington in a bid to undo all of the Affordable Care Act. Bowing to the vehemence of its Tea Party faction, the House G.O.P. forced a government shutdown when Senate Democrats refused to delay or defund the president’s health overhaul.
House Republicans are threatening even further damage if they don’t get their way, possibly unleashing financial chaos if they manage to force the United States into its first default ever on the government’s debt.
Republicans’ efforts raise the same perplexing question posed by the Missourian: What drives Tea Party Republicans and their financial backers? What calculation persuades them that repealing the health care law is worth the risk? Indeed, whose interests do they represent?
Nearly 6 in 10 Americans disapprove of trying to stop the law by cutting its financing. Even among those who don’t like the law, less than half want their representatives in Congress to try to make it fail.
It is tempting to discard the Tea Party activists driving the Republican Party as crazy — as some commentators have — motivated by fear and willing to believe that default won’t cause much harm and might even act as a purgative to free the economy of a bloated government.
“They listen to nobody but themselves,” the Harvard political scientist Theda Skocpol told me. “They are convinced of their rectitude and convinced that they alone are qualified to save America from the dire threat of Obama and his polices. They have worked themselves into a dangerous place.”
Their relationship with reality can take peculiar turns. Reflexive opponents of “government,” they can exhibit little sense of what the government actually does.
And yet the argument that half the Republican Party has simply lost its mind has to be an unsatisfactory answer, especially considering the sophistication of some of the deep-pocketed backers of the Tea Party insurgency.
There is a plausible alternative to irrationality. Flawed though it may turn out to be, Obamacare, as the Affordable Care Act is popularly known, could fundamentally change the relationship between working Americans and their government. This could pose an existential threat to the small-government credo that has defined the G.O.P. for four decades.
The law is imperfect. It has dozens of complicated, interlocking parts. Half of Americans say they don’t understand how it will affect them and their family. Still, the law has many provisions that are likely to improve life for millions of Americans, including a big portion of what we know as the working middle class.
Almost two-thirds of uninsured Americans have a full-time job, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. A further 16 percent are employed part time.
The Department of Health and Human Services recently estimated that nearly six in 10 uninsured Americans could qualify for health coverage in the insurance market for less than $100 per person per month.
According to an analysis by the Urban Institute, 28 million Americans would gain health insurance under Obamacare. Of these, eight million earn more than twice the poverty level of $47,100 for a family of four. A majority of those would get a subsidy to buy a plan.
As it turns out, the core Tea Party demographic — working white men between the ages of 45 and 64 — would do fairly well under the law.
Take Missouri. It has about 800,000 uninsured. Almost half of them would have been eligible for expanded Medicaid benefits, had the Legislature not rejected them. Many of the rest — including families of four making up to $94,000 — will be eligible to get subsidized health insurance.
In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year.
This could justify conservative Republicans’ greatest fears.
In 1994, when President Bill Clinton took an earlier stab at a health care overhaul, the conservative thinker Irving Kristol published a manifesto about why Republicans had to stop it.
“Passage of the Clinton health plan in any form would be disastrous,” Mr. Kristol wrote, italicizing for emphasis. “It would guarantee an unprecedented federal intrusion into the American economy. Its success would signal the rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the moment that such policy is being perceived as a failure in other areas.”
Two decades after Mr. Clinton’s ultimately failed attempt, Obamacare poses the same sort of threat.
Even Americans who say they dislike the law actually like many of its components. Nearly three-quarters approve of giving financial help to poor and moderate-income Americans to buy health insurance. Two-thirds approve of barring insurance companies from denying coverage because of somebody’s medical history. Three-quarters favor letting children stay on their parents’ insurance until they are 26.
Until now, social welfare programs in the United States have exhibited a “big hole,” Professor Skocpol said, consisting of nonpoor working-age Americans and their children. Obamacare closes a big chunk of it.
“The main beneficiaries tend to have lower wages, employed in smaller businesses that are not providing health insurance,” she said. “They are not elderly. They are also not the poorest.”
And they might be grateful to Democrats for the benefit.
To conservative Republicans, losing a large slice of the middle class to the ranks of the Democratic Party could justify extreme measures.
E-mail: eporter@nytimes.com;
Twitter: @portereduardo
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/business/economy/why-the-health-care-law-scares-the-gop.html?partner=yahoofinance&_r=0
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Good read.
Lets hope the american people punishes the GOP for this mess.
The american people and the world deserve better.
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Good read.
Lets hope the american people punishes the GOP for this mess.
The american people and the world deserve better.
they wont, these people are as set in the next elections are as pelosi is in hers...if that bat shit crazy broad can get re-elected these people will have a breeze getting re-elected
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The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.
They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.
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Mandatory insurance is cohesive. A grown man of 26 should not be on their parents insurance either. By 26 you are an adult and should be able to support yourself.
"In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year."
I predicted a tiered insurance system years ago. A tiered system isn't going to provide equal quality coverage to all people. A bronze level plan may well be as bad or worse than an HMO.
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The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.
They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.
Yeah im sure the 25 million who gets health insurance hates the law.
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Yeah im sure the 25 million who gets health insurance hates the law.
They are not getting anything but a mandate to purchase insurance or face a tax or fine.
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In 1994, when President Bill Clinton took an earlier stab at a health care overhaul, the conservative thinker Irving Kristol published a manifesto about why Republicans had to stop it.
“Passage of the Clinton health plan in any form would be disastrous,” Mr. Kristol wrote, italicizing for emphasis. “It would guarantee an unprecedented federal intrusion into the American economy. Its success would signal the rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the moment that such policy is being perceived as a failure in other areas.”
This is a troubling myth. The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.
That misunderstanding has to go. There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government. Government makes those things possible. It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.
In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite. It's great for everyone else though. Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once. Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.
But is this necessary? Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners. Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor. So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.
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This is a troubling myth. The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.
That misunderstanding has to go. There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government. Government makes those things possible. It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.
In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite. It's great for everyone else though. Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once. Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.
But is this necessary? Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners. Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor. So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.
A lot of truth here. You're always going to need the government and laws to enforce such things as property rights.
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The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.
They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.
Americans by majority support it and yesterday 10 million visits were counted, do you realize how many people checked into that one site that one day? must be real unpopular.
Why are you mad, you can stay on your moms plan for years now baby boi.
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This is a troubling myth. The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.
That misunderstanding has to go. There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government. Government makes those things possible. It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.
In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite. It's great for everyone else though. Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once. Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.
But is this necessary? Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners. Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor. So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.
oh really? a cogent response on this board....
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Mandatory insurance is cohesive. A grown man of 26 should not be on their parents insurance either. By 26 you are an adult and should be able to support yourself.
"In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year."
I predicted a tiered insurance system years ago. A tiered system isn't going to provide equal quality coverage to all people. A bronze level plan may well be as bad or worse than an HMO.
The exact opposite is true without evidence.
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The exact opposite is true without evidence.
?
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The exact opposite is true without evidence.
Quoteworthy (for those that get it)
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The GOP? The majority of the country hates the law, too. It's a train wreck and yesterday proves it.
They had years to get ready for yesterday and it was still a mess. Just goes to show how utterly worthless government is.
LOL - yeah so many people tried to sign up on the first day that the system couldn't deal with the volume
what more proof do you need that everyone hates this law
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LOL - yeah so many people tried to sign up on the first day that the system couldn't deal with the volume
what more proof do you need that everyone hates this law
A few million out of a country of 310,000,000 - yeah everyone loves it.
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A few million out of a country of 310,000,000 - yeah everyone loves it.
Most people in this country will never have to use it dunce
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the bottom line is this. you can read all of the polls and read all of the articles you want. but the fact remains is that Obamacare is forcing employers like me out of the private market and into the government program. thats not to be debated anymore. Obama was correct when he said that my health care plan won't be affected at all. i will still be able to see all the same doctors that i was seeing. however he failed to mention the fact that the mandates set forth by his administration will cause my health care premiums to increase by more than 40%.
and maybe purchasing health care fromt he exchange is not going to hurt me in the long run. my mind is open to the fact that it may even work out better for me and my family.
but the fact that some people on here are displaying an unwaivering confidence in the ability of the US government to maintain and monitor this gigantic health care exchange just plainly shows that those people are either:
1. a complete fucking idiot.
or
2. an ideologue who doesn't care what happens. you're bought and sold already.
if you support what the Obama administration is doing OK. i can respect that. but unless you're going into this with a large degree of professional skepticism you're just a media baby who in my opinion should not be voting.
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People are saying why they hate it you dumb shit. Just listen to them...
People who work / own businesses don't want to pay for you lazy ass unemployed bitches to live off our teet for anything else. It's really that simple.
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People are saying why they hate it you dumb shit. Just listen to them...
People who work / own businesses don't want to pay for you lazy ass unemployed bitches to live off our teet for anything else. It's really that simple.
yes, you're right that is very simplistic
no doubt about that
no one is living off you though I'm sure you believe it to be true
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Yeah im sure the 25 million who gets health insurance hates the law.
What about the 30 million who, according to the CBO, after 10 years under this law will still be uninsured?
This law doesn't even achieve what it supposedly was supposed to accomplish. If it's so great how come there were companies getting waivers?
HEHEHEHEEH!!! This is a disaster. But, we all know this joke of a law is just to take a step toward complete control by the government of the health system via single payer. That is what Harry Reid implied.
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the bottom line is this. you can read all of the polls and read all of the articles you want. but the fact remains is that Obamacare is forcing employers like me out of the private market and into the government program. thats not to be debated anymore. Obama was correct when he said that my health care plan won't be affected at all. i will still be able to see all the same doctors that i was seeing. however he failed to mention the fact that the mandates set forth by his administration will cause my health care premiums to increase by more than 40%.
and maybe purchasing health care fromt he exchange is not going to hurt me in the long run. my mind is open to the fact that it may even work out better for me and my family.
but the fact that some people on here are displaying an unwaivering confidence in the ability of the US government to maintain and monitor this gigantic health care exchange just plainly shows that those people are either:
1. a complete fucking idiot.
or
2. an ideologue who doesn't care what happens. you're bought and sold already.
if you support what the Obama administration is doing OK. i can respect that. but unless you're going into this with a large degree of professional skepticism you're just a media baby who in my opinion should not be voting.
Thread over
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yes, you're right that is very simplistic
no doubt about that
no one is living off you though I'm sure you believe it to be true
They don't? So can I have my 40k in taxes I paid last year back? Versus let's see... Those who paid nothing? And I'm a small fry. Grow up you live in fantasy la la land. You leeches DO live off of us that work and you want more. I don't want to give more. That's all there is to it.
Taxes should go to the benefit of all... Roads military etc not for the benefit of a specific group. That's called robbery.
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What about the 30 million who, according to the CBO, after 10 years under this law will still be uninsured?
This law doesn't even achieve what it supposedly was supposed to accomplish. If it's so great how come there were companies getting waivers?
HEHEHEHEEH!!! This is a disaster. But, we all know this joke of a law is just to take a step toward complete control by the government of the health system via single payer. That is what Harry Reid implied.
that's what they should have done in the first place
Instead they tried to compromise with Republicans by basing the plan on Republican ideas
And in return they got no support
They should have not even bothered to try to appease Repubs in the first place
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They don't? So can I have my 40k in taxes I paid last year back? Versus let's see... Those who paid nothing? And I'm a small fry. Grow up you live in fantasy la la land. You leeches DO live off of us that work and you want more. I don't want to give more. That's all there is to it.
Taxes should go to the benefit of all... Roads military etc not for the benefit of a specific group. That's called robbery.
I paid more than that last year
what does that have to do with Health Insurance
If you just want to piss and moan (which is what appears to be the only thing that Repubs can ever do) then carry on
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I paid more than that last year
what does that have to do with Health Insurance
If you just want to piss and moan (which is what appears to be the only thing that Repubs can ever do) then carry on
What does it have to do? Not sure if serious...
Taxes HAVE to go up to pay for this mess. I don't want to give more that...is.... All.
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What does it have to do? Not sure if serious...
Taxes HAVE to go up to pay for this mess. I don't want to give more that...is.... All.
so you're saying the 40k you paid in 2012 is somehow related to this healthcare law
connect those dots because taxes didn't go up last year and except for a few specific provisions in the tax code (like the tanning bed tax and a few others) I don't see how you bitching about your taxes is related to bitching about the ACA
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so you're saying the 40k you paid in 2012 is somehow related to this healthcare law
connect those dots because taxes didn't go up last year and except for a few specific provisions in the tax code (like the tanning bed tax and a few others) I don't see how you bitching about your taxes is related to bitching about the ACA
Where will the money come from to pay for subsidies for the uninsured? How are businesses going to respond? Will it be less expensive than my current insurance! I don't know much about it.
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Where will the money come from to pay for subsidies for the uninsured? How are businesses going to respond? Will it be less expensive than my current insurance! I don't know much about it.
Then why didn't you find out? Start here.
www.google.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/opinion/do-american-sikhs-count.html?_r=0
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? I want to know more about ACA. You seem familiar with its intricacies and I'm not.
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LOL - yeah so many people tried to sign up on the first day that the system couldn't deal with the volume
what more proof do you need that everyone hates this law
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahaha, this guy has to be a gimmick account.
Check the polls, genius. The majority of the country still hates this law.
How cute that you think the glitches had anything to do with volume. 2 years and they can't even get it right. Boy, government sure does rock!
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Millions of people shop at ebay, amazon, etc daily - doesn't seem to be a problem
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Obama could pass a mandate stating that every citizen must get fucked in the ass by a herpes infested bear or pay a fine, and Strawman would be on here defending it.
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You anti-gov crowd better cozy up with the fact that the ACA / ObamaCare is the law of the land and there is absolutely nothing you or Tom Kruz can do about it. Except throw a hissy fit, I guess. B/c I'll be damned if we burden our countrymen with unnecessary healthcare coverage...or unwanted education for that matter. Hell, while we're at it, let's ice bathing as well.
Now, like good citizens, line up and fork over your proof of insurance cards.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahaha, this guy has to be a gimmick account.
Check the polls, genius. The majority of the country still hates this law.
How cute that you think the glitches had anything to do with volume. 2 years and they can't even get it right. Boy, government sure does rock!
How stupid that you don't
then again, being a complete moron is what you're known for on this board
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You anti-gov crowd better cozy up with the fact that the ACA / ObamaCare is the law of the land and there is absolutely nothing you or Tom Kruz can do about it. Except throw a hissy fit, I guess. B/c I'll be damned if we burden our countrymen with unnecessary healthcare coverage...or unwanted education for that matter. Hell, while we're at it, let's ice bathing as well.
Now, like good citizens, line up and fork over your proof of insurance cards.
i for one, hope that you are correct. i dont think i will able to afford my Blue Cross Blue shield for very much longer and i am most probably going to be forced to buy off of the government exchange. so i want Obamacare to be a success. Maybe it will. However I'm very skeptical right now.
what bothers me is your devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet. your religious faith in a program that hasnt even begun to be implemented is flat out weird. how are you so sure that this will be such a sweeping success? do you not even allow for the belief that there is room for error?
if i didn't know any better i would think you were a mindless ideologue.
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i for one, hope that you are correct. i dont think i will able to afford my Blue Cross Blue shield for very much longer and i am most probably going to be forced to buy off of the government exchange. so i want Obamacare to be a success. Maybe it will. However I'm very skeptical right now.
what bothers me is your devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet. your religious faith in a program that hasnt even begun to be implemented is flat out weird. how are you so sure that this will be such a sweeping success? do you not even allow for the belief that there is room for error?
if i didn't know any better i would think you were a mindless ideologue.
I'm no ideologue. bm chk.
What concerns me is your patently false concern about me.
Apparently I have a 'devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet'. Many many people know about how the ACA operates. If you don't here's some help:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/29/2682291/obamacare-questions-2/
I don't care for the ACA. I think we should have Medicare for all universal HCC.
But the ACA is better than anything currently proffered by the neo-nazi party. Hell, the ACA is a boon to big insurance. How do I know that? Its antecedents are republican and I read the law.
I'm no fan of making the comfortable more comfortable. That's where I might be devout.
But here's mud in your eye to 20 years of success under Obama Care.
I mean I wouldn't wish America to fail, would you?
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the ACA is a boon to big insurance. How do I know that? Its antecedents are republican and I read the law.
I like this guy.
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The big changes under Obamacare mostly affect the Americans who don’t already have insurance. If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change. You’ll continue to have the same plan and it will continue to be administered in the same way. (You should receive a notice from your insurance company explaining whether or not your plan is compliant under Obamacare, and notifying you about the new exchanges opening next month.) If you’re self-employed and you buy your insurance on the individual market, you might want to compare your current plan to the new plans that will be offered on Obamacare’s marketplaces — you could be able to choose a cheaper option.
yeah nothing did change......except my monthly premium. it's going to increase by 46% in 2014. my "cheaper option" now. is that going to be an insurance policy thats just as good as the one i have now? and it will be cheaper? i don't have those answers yet. and neither do you.
i don't care what your little website says. it's obviously misleading. they explicity say in their Q&A, "If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change." they were right. nothing will change. EXCEPT MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF. they don't think that the monthly premium you're going to have to pay is a relevant part of your health insurance? to me that's THE most important part.
again, i'm dealing with this issue in real life. i have a family and employees to take care of. this is not an ideological debate for me. I'm cutting checks to pay for this. this has an immediate impact on my business and my family.
again, no one hopes that you're right more than i do. i just don't see why you think this is such a slam dunk. and i can't help but see you as naive because you do.
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I'm no ideologue. bm chk.
What concerns me is your patently false concern about me.
Apparently I have a 'devout loyalty to a program that no one knows much about yet'. Many many people know about how the ACA operates. If you don't here's some help:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/29/2682291/obamacare-questions-2/
I don't care for the ACA. I think we should have Medicare for all universal HCC.
But the ACA is better than anything currently proffered by the neo-nazi party. Hell, the ACA is a boon to big insurance. How do I know that? Its antecedents are republican and I read the law.
I'm no fan of making the comfortable more comfortable. That's where I might be devout.
But here's mud in your eye to 20 years of success under Obama Care.
I mean I wouldn't wish America to fail, would you?
Thinkprogress probably isn't the best site to reference.
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Thinkprogress probably isn't the best site to reference.
Oh it is when you're 'debating' the fringe element.
Besides, I scanned the article and it is pretty much accurate. I'm not a shoot the messenger guy like these rightwing meatheads. Fox news or Thinkprogress... If Satan is accurate with his descriptions, then the Devil is bringing the good news.
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Oh it is when you're 'debating' the fringe element.
Besides, I scanned the article and it is pretty much accurate. I'm not a shoot the messenger guy like these rightwing meatheads. Fox news or Thinkprogress... If Satan is accurate with his descriptions, then the Devil is bringing the good news.
I mentioned this only because others are bound to.
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Mandatory insurance is cohesive. A grown man of 26 should not be on their parents insurance either. By 26 you are an adult and should be able to support yourself.
"In St. Louis, for instance, a family of four making $50,000 a year will be able to buy a middle-of-the-road “silver” health plan for $282 a month and a bottom-end “bronze” plan for $32. Even Medicare recipients will get a benefit worth a few hundred dollars a year."
I predicted a tiered insurance system years ago. A tiered system isn't going to provide equal quality coverage to all people. A bronze level plan may well be as bad or worse than an HMO.
No system can provide equal quality coverage to all people and "equality" is bogus in this context anyways.
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I mentioned this only because others are bound to.
I know. My opponents are people who've devoted their political / philosophical lives to supporting ideas / movements that undercut their own positions in life. They, in turn, relish sticking it to their neighbors. That is not acceptable. That's wrong-headed and cruel.
These people have backed the wrong pony their whole lives and they are riding it straight off a cliff. In their sour, misguided lives, they want to take as many of us down as they can.
But yet they speak of freedom and responsibility and whatever else they imagine as good values.
To me, for the most part, they are intentionally uninformed, marginally talented losers.
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No system can provide equal quality coverage to all people and "equality" is a bogus in this context anyways.
You're probably right.
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they wont, these people are as set in the next elections are as pelosi is in hers...if that bat shit crazy broad can get re-elected these people will have a breeze getting re-elected
I agree Pelosi is fucked in the head but she is not punishing the taxpayers like the republicans does in this instance.
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This is a troubling myth. The Market is perfect in operation and the government only interferes with that perfection.
That misunderstanding has to go. There is no free market, no money, no nothing without government. Government makes those things possible. It's the private sector that corrupts the marketplace...making it inefficient while bastardizing competition to ensure market domninance by the few who own the USA, its gov. and its people.
In a way, Kristol was right...success of any remedial healthcare plan is disastrous.....for the monied elite. It's great for everyone else though. Federal intrusion (fair laws) forces the monied elite to act like human beings for once. Plus, for healthcare, it removes the absolute yoke that Employer's have on workers...tethering labor to shitty jobs out of fear for loss of health benefits.
But is this necessary? Why, with a little hard work, we can all be above average entrepreneurial business owners. Only problem is, no one is left to do the labor. So it is in our best interests to make sure that labor and the lesser economic classes are cared for.
Good post
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the bottom line is this. you can read all of the polls and read all of the articles you want. but the fact remains is that Obamacare is forcing employers like me out of the private market and into the government program.
So what? The private market as you called it sucked. Denying people health insurance, effectively killing them kids included.
thats not to be debated anymore. Obama was correct when he said that my health care plan won't be affected at all. i will still be able to see all the same doctors that i was seeing. however he failed to mention the fact that the mandates set forth by his administration will cause my health care premiums to increase by more than 40%.
and maybe purchasing health care fromt he exchange is not going to hurt me in the long run. my mind is open to the fact that it may even work out better for me and my family.
but the fact that some people on here are displaying an unwaivering confidence in the ability of the US government to maintain and monitor this gigantic health care exchange just plainly shows that those people are either:
1. a complete fucking idiot.
or
2. an ideologue who doesn't care what happens. you're bought and sold already.
if you support what the Obama administration is doing OK. i can respect that. but unless you're going into this with a large degree of professional skepticism you're just a media baby who in my opinion should not be voting.
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"So what? The private market as you called it sucked. Denying people health insurance, effectively killing them kids included."
it did suck. i just don't necessarily support the idea that the US government is going to do a better job. if they can i'm all for it. but there's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that they can. they have to control costs and maximize revenue just like a private insurance company. how are costs going to stay down with millions upon millions more people to pay for? how do they maximize revenues without raising taxes.....on everyone? not just the rich.
i know everyone loves Obama and thinks the democrats are the good guys. but at the end of the day the federal government is going to have a budget just like any other for profit company. the idea that good intentions will lead to progress is being beaten in your head by the televison set every day. this is the platform that the liberal democrats have taken with regards to health insurance. "corporations are evil. that's why it's not working"
from what I see, we're going to see if the "good guys" can perform this function more efficiently than the "bad guys".
and again, i'm rooting for Obamacare. Im being forced into this exchange. you have unwaivering confidence that I will be better off buying off of the exchange than i was before. my question is, do you really know that? or are you just a fan of Obama because you voted for him?
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"So what? The private market as you called it sucked. Denying people health insurance, effectively killing them kids included."
it did suck. i just don't necessarily support the idea that the US government is going to do a better job. if they can i'm all for it. but there's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that they can. they have to control costs and maximize revenue just like a private insurance company. how are costs going to stay down with millions upon millions more people to pay for? how do they maximize revenues without raising taxes.....on everyone? not just the rich.
i know everyone loves Obama and thinks the democrats are the good guys. but at the end of the day the federal government is going to have a budget just like any other for profit company. the idea that good intentions will lead to progress is being beaten in your head by the televison set every day. this is the platform that the liberal democrats have taken with regards to health insurance. "corporations are evil. that's why it's not working"
from what I see, we're going to see if the "good guys" can perform this function more efficiently than the "bad guys".
and again, i'm rooting for Obamacare. Im being forced into this exchange. you have unwaivering confidence that I will be better off buying off of the exchange than i was before. my question is, do you really know that? or are you just a fan of Obama because you voted for him?
My sentiments exactly. Its a wait and see situation for me. There are still a lot of questions to be answered and a lot of the information out there, on both sides of the issue, is speculation.
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http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northeast_valley/fountain_hills/fountain-hills-man-dropped-from-health-insurance-because-of-new-regulations
Eat shit Obama bots
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My sentiments exactly. Its a wait and see situation for me. There are still a lot of questions to be answered and a lot of the information out there, on both sides of the issue, is speculation.
the people who sit on here and argue like they KNOW how this is all going to work are fucking idiots. and they have no desire to hear how this is affecting anyone. its downright disturbing.
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Obamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock
No free lunch? No way!!!!
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Obamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock
No free lunch? No way!!!!
so government is taking over health care because people's premiums were just getting so ridiculous because those "evil corporate white guys" were preying upon the people. so they set up this exchange......and charge the same fucking thing. the only difference is now you are penalized if you don't wanna buy it. wow. just wow.
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so government is taking over health care because people's premiums were just getting so ridiculous because those "evil corporate white guys" were preying upon the people. so they set up this exchange......and charge the same fucking thing. the only difference is now you are penalized if you don't wanna buy it. wow. just wow.
As the insurable pool expands, rates go down. If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes. Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil? Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.
The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing. We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured). You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage. Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.
I think we can do better than that. If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that. But, for the greater good.
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As the insurable pool expands, rates go down. If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes. Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil? Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.
The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing. We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured). You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage. Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.
I think we can do better than that. If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that. But, for the greater good.
you're simply guessing that these rates will go down and that this is for "the greater good". you are acting on faith.
people like you are simply rooting for Obama. not approaching this with a certain level of professional skepticism like we all should.
do me a favor. tell me what Obamacare could do to make you stop defending it? please answer this question. and give some objective criteria of something they could do to make you become an opponent.
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As the insurable pool expands, rates go down. If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes. Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil? Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.
Evil? I don't think a business should be forced to take on customers it doesn't want to take on and so, by extension, I don't think an insurance company should be forced to take on risk it doesn't want to take on. If you think there's a viable business for providing coverage to those that could not get coverage before then by all means, start up your own insurance company... why don't you? I'll tell you why: because starting a business to do this would be unprofitable and you wouldn't last long.
You really think the insurance companies don't want to have more paying customers? They do. It's just that they aren't in the business of charity.
Speaking of charity, if you feel so strongly about this issue, why not just start a charity that offers to pay (in part or in full) the necessary rates? Such a charity would have the same net effect ultimately: expanding the insurable poor, thereby lowering rates and so on. And since it would rely on donations, it wouldn't be morally questionable.
The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing. We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured). You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage. Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.
That's a whole load of bullshit. The ACA does little, or nothing to help, and comes at a big cost (and I am not taking monetary costs here).
You can trot statistics and numbers but others can play this game too. Let's assume 45,000 people a year die from this "problem" (i.e. that they cannot get or afford health insurance). As for your appeal to emotion, don't forget that there's 21,000 people dying every day from hunger or hunger-related issues in the world. What do you propose to do about them? Or isn't food a higher priority than healthcare?
I think we can do better than that. If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that. But, for the greater good.
Fuck the greater good. I have no desire to subsidize the "greater good" even if we agreed on what "greater good" meant, which I suspect we wouldn't. Why do you think that you can force me to use my means to finance your ends?
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As the insurable pool expands, rates go down. If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes. Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil? Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.
The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing. We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured). You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage. Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.
I think we can do better than that. If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that. But, for the greater good.
also "colored by self interest"????
let me ask YOU. i have myself and my family, and 5 employees and their families that I need to pay health insurance for.
what about you?
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http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northeast_valley/fountain_hills/fountain-hills-man-dropped-from-health-insurance-because-of-new-regulations
Eat shit Obama bots
No reasoning, no argument ever, just cut and paste from right wing web sites, and "eat shit."
Very edifying.
Be careful: You may be a laughingstock in your own circles.
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they wont, these people are as set in the next elections are as pelosi is in hers...if that bat shit crazy broad can get re-elected these people will have a breeze getting re-elected
How is Pelosi batshit crazy? (Really, I know right-tards hate her, but hadn't heard that she's supposed be crazy.)
BTW, how would you describe Michelle Bachmann? Super duper, really, really, really, really crazy?
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How is Pelosi batshit crazy? (Really, I know right-tards hate her, but hadn't heard that she's supposed be crazy.)
BTW, how would you describe Michelle Bachmann? Super duper, really, really, really, really crazy?
I describe her exactly like I describe Pelosi: an nutjob extremist; they only differ in their particular brand of craziness.
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Even if the pool of insured expand the expenditures increase as well. This is a tough issue. I feel for bear and I don't think he's being selfish.
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http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/1007/Beyond-Obamacare-glitches-some-consumers-face-dramatically-higher-rates-video
booom
The law S U C K S and the implementation is even worse.
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so government is taking over health care because people's premiums were just getting so ridiculous because those "evil corporate white guys" were preying upon the people. so they set up this exchange......and charge the same fucking thing. the only difference is now you are penalized if you don't wanna buy it. wow. just wow.
Wrong. Read a book.
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you're simply guessing that these rates will go down and that this is for "the greater good". you are acting on faith.
people like you are simply rooting for Obama. not approaching this with a certain level of professional skepticism like we all should.
do me a favor. tell me what Obamacare could do to make you stop defending it? please answer this question. and give some objective criteria of something they could do to make you become an opponent.
I'm guessing and acting on faith...what do you do? Re-write your programning?
Of course people like me are rooting for Obama. We are called normal Americans. We want out country and countrymen to succeeds.
I know that is alien to far right wing fringe groups like yours. In our world, we have values and dreams that interestect with those of others and we all have a great time. We aren't jealous of our neighbor nor do we wish him or her harm.
When will I stop backing the ACA? How about when the Neo-nazi party offers up a health insurnace package that isn't crooked and covers more than what the president's plan covers.
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Evil? I don't think a business should be forced to take on customers it doesn't want to take on and so, by extension, I don't think an insurance company should be forced to take on risk it doesn't want to take on. If you think there's a viable business for providing coverage to those that could not get coverage before then by all means, start up your own insurance company... why don't you? I'll tell you why: because starting a business to do this would be unprofitable and you wouldn't last long.
You really think the insurance companies don't want to have more paying customers? They do. It's just that they aren't in the business of charity.
Speaking of charity, if you feel so strongly about this issue, why not just start a charity that offers to pay (in part or in full) the necessary rates? Such a charity would have the same net effect ultimately: expanding the insurable poor, thereby lowering rates and so on. And since it would rely on donations, it wouldn't be morally questionable.
That's a whole load of bullshit. The ACA does little, or nothing to help, and comes at a big cost (and I am not taking monetary costs here).
You can trot statistics and numbers but others can play this game too. Let's assume 45,000 people a year die from this "problem" (i.e. that they cannot get or afford health insurance). As for your appeal to emotion, don't forget that there's 21,000 people dying every day from hunger or hunger-related issues in the world. What do you propose to do about them? Or isn't food a higher priority than healthcare?
Fuck the greater good. I have no desire to subsidize the "greater good" even if we agreed on what "greater good" meant, which I suspect we wouldn't. Why do you think that you can force me to use my means to finance your ends?
health insurance should not be a commodity. But it is. Big insurance does not make its fortune byapproving claims. But I will take your advice to start an isnurance company. I'll only do it if yoou're 50% partner. In fairness to me, I don't know what the content ofthe remainder of your email is.
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I'm guessing and acting on faith...what do you do? Re-write your programning?
Of course people like me are rooting for Obama. We are called normal Americans. We want out country and countrymen to succeeds.
I know that is alien to far right wing fringe groups like yours. In our world, we have values and dreams that interestect with those of others and we all have a great time. We aren't jealous of our neighbor nor do we wish him or her harm.
When will I stop backing the ACA? How about when the Neo-nazi party offers up a health insurnace package that isn't crooked and covers more than what the president's plan covers.
you refer to the Republican party as the "neo nazi" party. i readily admit in all of my posts that I'm all for Obamacare if I see that it does what Obama and his administration says it would do. and i'm far right? LOL!!
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Wrong. Read a book.
what is wrong about what i just said? are the options on the exchange cheaper? or are you just hurling weak insults because you know that I'm right?
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health insurance should not be a commodity. But it is. Big insurance does not make its fortune byapproving claims. But I will take your advice to start an isnurance company. I'll only do it if yoou're 50% partner. In fairness to me, I don't know what the content ofthe remainder of your email is.
right and you have NO DOUBT that nothing will be denied to anyone if they buy their health insurance from the exchange. they won't have a budget? do they have endless amounts of money now? where do you get your information?
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I'm guessing and acting on faith...what do you do? Re-write your programning?
Of course people like me are rooting for Obama. We are called normal Americans. We want out country and countrymen to succeeds.
I know that is alien to far right wing fringe groups like yours. In our world, we have values and dreams that interestect with those of others and we all have a great time. We aren't jealous of our neighbor nor do we wish him or her harm.
When will I stop backing the ACA? How about when the Neo-nazi party offers up a health insurnace package that isn't crooked and covers more than what the president's plan covers.
you also never answered my question. how many people do you pay health insurance for?
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what is wrong about what i just said? are the options on the exchange cheaper? or are you just hurling weak insults because you know that I'm right?
Well it depends on the person and plan, however the bronze plan as well as the default fine are pretty fucking cheap. You have over 50 employees? if not you should be exempt.
The fact that the fine will never be more then the bronze plan indicates that it is in fact affordable healthcare for all.
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you also never answered my question. how many people do you pay health insurance for?
You must have over 50 employees? otherwise what the fuck are you doing. Visit the SHOP program, the tax incentives also should reduce your cost. You should be able to get tax credits if under 25 employees making less then 50k. Your medicare tax should not move, fact.
Didn't you state you have 6 employees? what type of business are you running?
If what you are saying is true, there is a serious disconnect between the available facts and reality or theory and practice.
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I believe there is some room to argue that health care should be beyond the real of the free market. In the advanced wealthy society we live in, there is no excuse for people dying because of access to healthcare.
If we demand healthcare as a basic tenant of a social contract between the people and the state we should expect the citizens to hold up their end of the bargain by acting responsibly. In such a system what should the people be required to do?
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health insurance should not be a commodity. But it is. Big insurance does not make its fortune byapproving claims. But I will take your advice to start an isnurance company. I'll only do it if yoou're 50% partner. In fairness to me, I don't know what the content ofthe remainder of your email is.
I wouldn't go 50% into a hot dog stand with you. Your business acumen leaves a lot to be desired.
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You must have over 50 employees? otherwise what the fuck are you doing. Visit the SHOP program, the tax incentives also should reduce your cost. You should be able to get tax credits if under 25 employees making less then 50k. Your medicare tax should not move, fact.
Didn't you state you have 6 employees? what type of business are you running?
If what you are saying is true, there is a serious disconnect between the available facts and reality or theory and practice.
Bears I got this feeling your a liar.
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I wouldn't go 50% into a hot dog stand with you. Your business acumen leaves a lot to be desired.
;D
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Bears I got this feeling your a liar.
YOU'RE TURNING INTO A SERIOUS FUCKING IDIOT ON THIS BOARD. for real.
here's what i'm doing right now with my employees in real life. im paying the blue cross blue shield for 2014. i'm not (and you would know this if you ran a business in the real world and didn't get all of your information through yahoo articles) going to just hop on a bronze plan because its cheaper not knowing exactly how my employees health care is going to change.
if you had to deal with employees and their health care in real life you wouldn't be absolutely sure what to do yet either. are they going to have to change doctors? are they going to have to change networks? are they going to get the same reimbursement on their prescription meds that they have been getting.
these are all questions that people who have to deal with this stuff in real life have to have answered before they switch their employee's health care plans. we can't just take your word for it because we read it on get big. to be honest i'm the first to admit that i haven't yet performed my due diligence on this yet. every colleague that i've spoken to who is facing the same siutation has told me to wait and see if these plans on the exchange wil be comparable to what i'm giving my employees currently.
again, you're a fan of Obama and will defned him to the death. i'm trying to run a business.
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YOU'RE TURNING INTO A SERIOUS FUCKING IDIOT ON THIS BOARD. for real.
here's what i'm doing right now with my employees in real life. im paying the blue cross blue shield for 2014. i'm not (and you would know this if you ran a business in the real world and didn't get all of your information through yahoo articles) going to just hop on a bronze plan because its cheaper not knowing exactly how my employees health care is going to change.
if you had to deal with employees and their health care in real life you wouldn't be absolutely sure what to do yet either. are they going to have to change doctors? are they going to have to change networks? are they going to get the same reimbursement on their prescription meds that they have been getting.
these are all questions that people who have to deal with this stuff in real life have to have answered before they switch their employee's health care plans. we can't just take your word for it because we read it on get big. to be honest i'm the first to admit that i haven't yet performed my due diligence on this yet. every colleague that i've spoken to who is facing the same siutation has told me to wait and see if these plans on the exchange wil be comparable to what i'm giving my employees currently.
again, you're a fan of Obama and will defned him to the death. i'm trying to run a business.
It's pretty obvious that you run a business. Good luck trying to reason with someone who lives in a socialist country that takes half or more of what he earns. He has no concept of what it means to operate in the private sector.
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Please tell me I didn't read 4 pages of this to find out Necrosis isn't even American. Haha. Geesh.
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YOU'RE TURNING INTO A SERIOUS FUCKING IDIOT ON THIS BOARD. for real.
here's what i'm doing right now with my employees in real life. im paying the blue cross blue shield for 2014. i'm not (and you would know this if you ran a business in the real world and didn't get all of your information through yahoo articles) going to just hop on a bronze plan because its cheaper not knowing exactly how my employees health care is going to change.
"Ok, do some fucking reading,I have a clinic aka small business by the way, what you are suggesting makes no sense.
if you had to deal with employees and their health care in real life you wouldn't be absolutely sure what to do yet either. are they going to have to change doctors? are they going to have to change networks? are they going to get the same reimbursement on their prescription meds that they have been getting.
Of course they will, do some fucking reading, you should not have to change doctors
these are all questions that people who have to deal with this stuff in real life have to have answered before they switch their employee's health care plans. we can't just take your word for it because we read it on get big. to be honest i'm the first to admit that i haven't yet performed my due diligence on this yet. every colleague that i've spoken to who is facing the same siutation has told me to wait and see if these plans on the exchange wil be comparable to what i'm giving my employees currently.
Im an idiot but you haven't done your due diligence? LMAO... and you own a business? For fuck sakes this explains it all, here you are going on about how much everything is going to cost, how you are paying out more in another thread and come to find out you are speaking out of your ass. If you think I becoming and idiot, it's probably because I don't buy your bullshit. I like how you appeal to emotion and authority also, I have a business, I this I that, you can't understand, maybe If you had a business etc. The facts are out there, there is no need to continuing speaking to you, go read about the law.
again, you're a fan of Obama and will defned him to the death. i'm trying to run a business.
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To be fair to Bears...
I also have a small business and employees also through Anthem Blue Cross - and they didn't really have much ACA info to be diligent about - until the last couple weeks.
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This idiots from abroad want to see this happen because they want us to be in the same miserable existence that they are in.
They will proclaim they are doing great. But them stating has never made it true.
It is the USA and everyone else is a far second. It has been like that for a long time. Now, they have their best chance with an idiot in the office who thinks exactly like them. They want to see more crap legislation like this in order to gradually have the USA take a step back the third world and eventually fall into oblivion.
Don't be fooled by the stupid canadians.
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It's pretty obvious that you run a business. Good luck trying to reason with someone who lives in a socialist country that takes half or more of what he earns. He has no concept of what it means to operate in the private sector.
the funny part is he doesn't think things like this take more than 5 minutes of thought. thats how young, inexperienced asshats like him think.
he doesn't have to face an employee and tell him or her that
"i am changing your health care and you can't go see your regular doctor anymore".
or
"i am putting you on the bronze plan and nothing changes except oh yeah your prescription med that you get 90% reimbursement for, yeah you're only going to get 50% reimbursement for now."
what his little mind doesn't comprehend that based on a persons medical history and their prescritions, that "small" change in someone's health care can bankrupt them.
my wife for example, her mom has MS. she gets a shot that costs $20,000 a month for her to get. under her current plan she is 100% covered. it costs her nothing. an employer like Necrosis could ruin her life in a matter of a few clicks of a keyboard. this is what he doesn't understand. these plans and their changes must be handled with extreme care.
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It's pretty obvious that you run a business. Good luck trying to reason with someone who lives in a socialist country that takes half or more of what he earns. He has no concept of what it means to operate in the private sector.
I run a small business, what part about my profession don't you understand? I have staff, I have integrative people in my clinic, ie counselling, nutritionist for metabolic disorders etc.
Also, bears is a liar, in this thread he admits he hasn't looked at nor knows the specifics of this ACA, nor does he know how it will effect him in any capacity. Stated in this very thread. Meanwhile, I have what's called retard memory, I recall him stating specifics in a manner that would be considered partisan.
"yeah nothing did change......except my monthly premium. it's going to increase by 46% in 2014. my "cheaper option" now. is that going to be an insurance policy thats just as good as the one i have now? and it will be cheaper? i don't have those answers yet. and neither do you.
i don't care what your little website says. it's obviously misleading. they explicity say in their Q&A, "If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change." they were right. nothing will change. EXCEPT MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF. they don't think that the monthly premium you're going to have to pay is a relevant part of your health insurance? to me that's THE most important part."
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the funny part is he doesn't think things like this take more than 5 minutes of thought. thats how young, inexperienced asshats like him think.
he doesn't have to face an employee and tell him or her that
"i am changing your health care and you can't go see your regular doctor anymore".
or
"i am putting you on the bronze plan and nothing changes except oh yeah your prescription med that you get 90% reimbursement for, yeah you're only going to get 50% reimbursement for now."
what his little mind doesn't comprehend that based on a persons medical history and their prescritions, that "small" change in someone's health care can bankrupt them.
my wife for example, her mom has MS. she gets a shot that costs $20,000 a month for her to get. under her current plan she is 100% covered. it costs her nothing. an employer like Necrosis could ruin her life in a matter of a few clicks of a keyboard. this is what he doesn't understand. these plans and their changes must be handled with extreme care.
Completely agree. We're trying to figure how it affects our employees too. It's very complicated.
You're not going to educate someone like Necrosis. He claims to be superior to people on the board. lol
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This idiots from abroad want to see this happen because they want us to be in the same miserable existence that they are in.
They will proclaim they are doing great. But them stating has never made it true.
It is the USA and everyone else is a far second. It has been like that for a long time. Now, they have their best chance with an idiot in the office who thinks exactly like them. They want to see more crap legislation like this in order to gradually have the USA take a step back the third world and eventually fall into oblivion.
Don't be fooled by the stupid canadians.
EXACTLY
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I run a small business, what part about my profession don't you understand? I have staff, I have integrative people in my clinic, ie counselling, nutritionist for metabolic disorders etc.
Also, bears is a liar, in this thread he admits he hasn't looked at nor knows the specifics of this ACA, nor does he know how it will effect him in any capacity. Stated in this very thread. Meanwhile, I have what's called retard memory, I recall him stating specifics in a manner that would be considered partisan.
"yeah nothing did change......except my monthly premium. it's going to increase by 46% in 2014. my "cheaper option" now. is that going to be an insurance policy thats just as good as the one i have now? and it will be cheaper? i don't have those answers yet. and neither do you.
i don't care what your little website says. it's obviously misleading. they explicity say in their Q&A, "If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change." they were right. nothing will change. EXCEPT MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF. they don't think that the monthly premium you're going to have to pay is a relevant part of your health insurance? to me that's THE most important part."
Oh I call BS. It would surprise me if you ran a small business. It would surprise me if you ran a successful small business. If I'm wrong, it's probably because your government controls most of what you do and takes most of what you earn, so you don't have to deal with the same issues that Americans face in a democratic environment. You certainly don't sound like someone who knows how business operates. At least outside of a socialist country.
Bears is not a liar. ::) He's one of the smartest posters on the board. Not a hack. Not a partisan.
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I run a small business, what part about my profession don't you understand? I have staff, I have integrative people in my clinic, ie counselling, nutritionist for metabolic disorders etc.
Also, bears is a liar, in this thread he admits he hasn't looked at nor knows the specifics of this ACA, nor does he know how it will effect him in any capacity. Stated in this very thread. Meanwhile, I have what's called retard memory, I recall him stating specifics in a manner that would be considered partisan.
"yeah nothing did change......except my monthly premium. it's going to increase by 46% in 2014. my "cheaper option" now. is that going to be an insurance policy thats just as good as the one i have now? and it will be cheaper? i don't have those answers yet. and neither do you.
i don't care what your little website says. it's obviously misleading. they explicity say in their Q&A, "If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change." they were right. nothing will change. EXCEPT MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF. they don't think that the monthly premium you're going to have to pay is a relevant part of your health insurance? to me that's THE most important part."
yes the mandates forced upon private health care by the Obama administration has forced them to raise my premiums by 46%. THATS ALL I KNOW SO FAR. i don't know if i can get my employees comparable health care for cheaper. i plan on paying the 2014 rates until i know i can get a comparable plan off of the exchange for less money.
what about this don't you understand? and you're knocking me for not changing up my entire health plan over the last 2 weeks? you're a fucking idiot. i'm sorry but you're getting destroyed on here. and not because of anything i'm saying.........
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I run a small business, what part about my profession don't you understand? I have staff, I have integrative people in my clinic, ie counselling, nutritionist for metabolic disorders etc.
Also, bears is a liar, in this thread he admits he hasn't looked at nor knows the specifics of this ACA, nor does he know how it will effect him in any capacity. Stated in this very thread. Meanwhile, I have what's called retard memory, I recall him stating specifics in a manner that would be considered partisan.
"yeah nothing did change......except my monthly premium. it's going to increase by 46% in 2014. my "cheaper option" now. is that going to be an insurance policy thats just as good as the one i have now? and it will be cheaper? i don't have those answers yet. and neither do you.
i don't care what your little website says. it's obviously misleading. they explicity say in their Q&A, "If you already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, or Medicaid nothing about that will change." they were right. nothing will change. EXCEPT MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF. they don't think that the monthly premium you're going to have to pay is a relevant part of your health insurance? to me that's THE most important part."
Bahahha, you claim to be a doctor and run a clinic yet you are somehow posting all day on a bodybuilding website
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the funny part is he doesn't think things like this take more than 5 minutes of thought. thats how young, inexperienced asshats like him think.
he doesn't have to face an employee and tell him or her that
"i am changing your health care and you can't go see your regular doctor anymore".
or
"i am putting you on the bronze plan and nothing changes except oh yeah your prescription med that you get 90% reimbursement for, yeah you're only going to get 50% reimbursement for now."
what his little mind doesn't comprehend that based on a persons medical history and their prescritions, that "small" change in someone's health care can bankrupt them.
my wife for example, her mom has MS. she gets a shot that costs $20,000 a month for her to get. under her current plan she is 100% covered. it costs her nothing. an employer like Necrosis could ruin her life in a matter of a few clicks of a keyboard. this is what he doesn't understand. these plans and their changes must be handled with extreme care.
\
Nice facts ::)
My mom has ALS and gets a fecal transplant EOD, PO, BID. it costs her nothing,could it change? I don't know I haven't read anything on the law and am making up scenarios that are pure conjecture.
Some of the scenarios you present aren't even fucking possible moron. Read about the law, you will be less mystified and in awe about it's complexity, stating no one can know the outcome in any manner. It's beyond our comprehension like evolution (why are there no half human half fishes?, ben stein?) and magnets. I didn't say handle them without care, nice strawman ::)
Also,for someone who apparently is aware of these massive impacts, in fact, life changing circumstances, you couldn't even read the law before it was implemented? when it clearly effects you as a small business owner? You are now going to perform due diligence? You want help running your business because you sound mighty inefficient.
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Oh I call BS. It would surprise me if you ran a small business. It would surprise me if you ran a successful small business. If I'm wrong, it's probably because your government controls most of what you do and takes most of what you earn, so you don't have to deal with the same issues that Americans face in a democratic environment. You certainly don't sound like someone who knows how business operates. At least outside of a socialist country.
Bears is not a liar. ::) He's one of the smartest posters on the board. Not a hack. Not a partisan.
HAAHAH.. that must be it.
He is so smart dude I cower in fear of his immense intellect.
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yes the mandates forced upon private health care by the Obama administration has forced them to raise my premiums by 46%. THATS ALL I KNOW SO FAR. i don't know if i can get my employees comparable health care for cheaper. i plan on paying the 2014 rates until i know i can get a comparable plan off of the exchange for less money.
what about this don't you understand? and you're knocking me for not changing up my entire health plan over the last 2 weeks? you're a fucking idiot. i'm sorry but you're getting destroyed on here. and not because of anything i'm saying.........
Sure I'm getting destroyed, you claim to have not done your due diligence then make a statement like the above.
I am being obliterated by your lies and appeals to emotion on here.
You didn't even bother coming back to the child rapist thread. You posted, you're an idiot (my first interaction with you) then.. oh I didn't know you had a video ...... you're still an idiot.
You are living up to your reputation as one of the smarter posters on this board. I didn't say you should have changed your plan, another strawman, I stated it would seem pertinent as a small business owner to at least at very fucking minimum to read a law and it's details, which are readily available, as they may impact you, greatly as you so kindly elucidated with the vivid examples of death and loss of medications and life ruin.
Notice how you assholes are attacking my character and not my words? your not a doctor, you can't run a small business etc. Then you say I am becoming an asshole? lol, my first interaction with you was you insulting me. Don't get upset when my semi-trolling posts upset you and tug on your little heart strings pussy, welcome to getbig.
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yes the mandates forced upon private health care by the Obama administration has forced them to raise my premiums by 46%. THATS ALL I KNOW SO FAR. i don't know if i can get my employees comparable health care for cheaper. i plan on paying the 2014 rates until i know i can get a comparable plan off of the exchange for less money.
what about this don't you understand? and you're knocking me for not changing up my entire health plan over the last 2 weeks? you're a fucking idiot. i'm sorry but you're getting destroyed on here. and not because of anything i'm saying.........
The mandates should lessen premiums as more people sign up, which is caused by the offset revenue created by share numbers of plans. In theory it should occur, similar models even Romney care (much smaller scale) indicate it should.
Now, if the GOP gets it's way, individual exemptions will being happening, which will sink the ship. The numbers game will end, insurances will have to keep premiums high to offset the exemptions. This is what the GOP are counting on, they are trying to make it fail. The have insisted on numerous poison pills during legislation.
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HAAHAH.. that must be it.
He is so smart dude I cower in fear of his immense intellect.
Good. And I'm sure you don't realize this, but you're not as smart as you think you are. Intelligent people typically don't have to tell people how smart they are and don't constantly call others stupid.
I recommend you read Emotional Intelligence by Dan Goleman. Great book. You could learn a lot from it.
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Good. And I'm sure you don't realize this, but you're not as smart as you think you are. Intelligent people typically don't have to tell people how smart they are and don't constantly call others stupid.
I recommend you read Emotional Intelligence by Dan Goleman. Great book. You could learn a lot from it.
Thanks for the advice. I was asked what I do, then attacked for being stupid, an idiot, couldn't be a doctor etc and you think my defense is propping myself up? I call things stupid when I see it, that's not an assertion of my intellect. I was told I don't pay taxes, was poor by coach and I stated my pay and I am being arrogant? Listen socially, I am temple grandin with a smaller dick.
I know how smart I am, If grades means intelligence (it doesn't), fact. Is that intelligence or memory, is a rote knowledge of a list of interleukins smart? I know someone with an iq int he 160's, his intellect is painfully obvious during our conversations, I fail to keep up. I pride myself on stating the truth regardless of the emotional consequence, ie good or bad, it just is.
The disconnect is that we are starting from totally different perspectives, I the details you the big picture.
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Necrosis melting down big time ;D
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Thanks for the advice. I was asked what I do, then attacked for being stupid, an idiot, couldn't be a doctor etc and you think my defense is propping myself up? I call things stupid when I see it, that's not an assertion of my intellect. I was told I don't pay taxes, was poor by coach and I stated my pay and I am being arrogant? Listen socially, I am temple grandin with a smaller dick.
I know how smart I am, If grades means intelligence (it doesn't), fact. Is that intelligence or memory, is a rote knowledge of a list of interleukins smart? I know someone with an iq int he 160's, his intellect is painfully obvious during our conversations, I fail to keep up. I pride myself on stating the truth regardless of the emotional consequence, ie good or bad, it just is.
The disconnect is that we are starting from totally different perspectives, I the details you the big picture.
That’s not exactly how it happened. You should go back and look at your post history on the board. How many times have you called people stupid? Quite a bit. That is pretty arrogant. Try going an entire day without insulting someone. It’s not that hard.
I know smart people when I talk to them too, and it’s not always about IQ. IQ is only part of what makes up overall intelligence. Self-control, the ability to communicate, personal relationships, etc. are all part of intelligence. That’s why I recommended the book. I read it and learned a lot from it.
I am all about the truth too, but no one will accept or listen to anything you say if your delivery sucks. And by “you” I mean everyone. That applies to all of us.
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That’s not exactly how it happened. You should go back and look at your post history on the board. How many times have you called people stupid? Quite a bit. That is pretty arrogant. Try going an entire day without insulting someone. It’s not that hard.
I know smart people when I talk to them too, and it’s not always about IQ. IQ is only part of what makes up overall intelligence. Self-control, the ability to communicate, personal relationships, etc. are all part of intelligence. That’s why I recommended the book. I read it and learned a lot from it.
I am all about the truth too, but no one will accept or listen to anything you say if your delivery sucks. And by “you” I mean everyone. That applies to all of us.
no problem stupid.
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Necrosis melting down big time ;D
True. He's trying too hard.
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no problem stupid.
I'm sure you have a terrific bedside manner. Your business must be bursting at the seams. Too bad your government takes most of what you earn. :)
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I'm sure you have a terrific bedside manner. Your business must be bursting at the seams. Too bad your government takes most of what you earn. :)
That book really helped you it seems, you are passive aggressive just like a woman. IQ isn't intelligence, theres emotional intelligence.. BWHAHAH. you sound like a libfag. Was the book written by a pseudo scientific guru?
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That book really helped you it seems, you are passive aggressive just like a woman. IQ isn't intelligence, theres emotional intelligence.. BWHAHAH. you sound like a libfag. Was the book written by a pseudo scientific guru?
U mad? lol
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O-shitheadCare scares most people cause its a DISASTER
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The mandates should lessen premiums as more people sign up, which is caused by the offset revenue created by share numbers of plans. In theory it should occur, similar models even Romney care (much smaller scale) indicate it should.
Yes... as more people sign up at the point of a gun, in theory it should work. But it won't. Because the problem is that something terrible happens when you put a gun to someone's head and force them to act against their own judgement.
What if I am have sufficient means to cover all possible health contingencies without resorting to insurance?
What if I prefer lesser coverage than the minimum mandated?
What right do you have to force me to substitute my judgement for yours or to get health insurance against my will?
Please tell me... I'm eager to know.
Now, if the GOP gets it's way, individual exemptions will being happening, which will sink the ship. The numbers game will end, insurances will have to keep premiums high to offset the exemptions. This is what the GOP are counting on, they are trying to make it fail. The have insisted on numerous poison pills during legislation.
The ship is going down, because this sort of thing is not sustainable. Exceptions (which I oppose for different reasons) would only make the ship sink faster.
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Yes... as more people sign up at the point of a gun, in theory it should work. But it won't. Because the problem is that something terrible happens when you put a gun to someone's head and force them to act against their own judgement.
What if I am have sufficient means to cover all possible health contingencies without resorting to insurance?
What if I prefer lesser coverage than the minimum mandated?
What right do you have to force me to substitute my judgement for yours or to get health insurance against my will?
Please tell me... I'm eager to know.
The ship is going down, because this sort of thing is not sustainable. Exceptions (which I oppose for different reasons) would only make the ship sink faster.
I would have been fine with a one time opt out but then they can never participate it in again
They would still have access to any employer plan or any plan they could purchase privately but if they oppose the ACA and don't want to participate then the one time opt out would be fine with me
tell me how you would solve the problem of these people then costing the rest of us money when they inevitably get sick or injured
If you can solve that problem then you may be on to something
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I would have been fine with a one time opt out but then they can never participate it in again
They would still have access to any employer plan or any plan they could purchase privately but if they oppose the ACA and don't want to participate then the one time opt out would be fine with me
tell me how you would solve the problem of these people then costing the rest of us money when they inevitably get sick or injured
If you can solve that problem then you may be on to something
It only costs us because we've made it cost us:
First by requiring hospitals to treat everyone, even those who can't pay, we force them to shift the costs to those who pay, making emergency rooms crowded by people who use the fact that they can't be turned away to receive care.
And second by migrating from a model where insurance was meant for catastrophic events to a model where it pays for everything.
So what I would do?
Automatically provide fallback catastrophic coverage via Medicare to every American, with a very basic level of coverage , that kicks in when you don't have coverage via work or private insurance, and then try to migrate back to a model where you pay healthcare providers for their services instead of relying on insurance, making insurance companies function as true insurance companies again.
Think about it for a second... you have homeowners insurance but you don't file a claim when a lightbulb burns out or a plant dies.
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I wouldn't go 50% into a hot dog stand with you. Your business acumen leaves a lot to be desired.
hahah his economic prowess is staggering though, just ask we can print all the money we want with no adverse effects.
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It only costs us because we've made it cost us:
First by requiring hospitals to treat everyone, even those who can't pay, we force them to shift the costs to those who pay, making emergency rooms crowded by people who use the fact that they can't be turned away to receive care.
And second by migrating from a model where insurance was meant for catastrophic events to a model where it pays for everything.
So what I would do?
Automatically provide fallback catastrophic coverage via Medicare to every American, with a very basic level of coverage , that kicks in when you don't have coverage via work or private insurance, and then try to migrate back to a model where you pay healthcare providers for their services instead of relying on insurance, making insurance companies function as true insurance companies again.
Think about it for a second... you have homeowners insurance but you don't file a claim when a lightbulb burns out or a plant dies.
youre talking to someone who thinks the govt should provide for all healthcare needs big or small....he doesnt understand!!!
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U mad? lol
U trollin me son?
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Yes... as more people sign up at the point of a gun, in theory it should work. But it won't. Because the problem is that something terrible happens when you put a gun to someone's head and force them to act against their own judgement.
What if I am have sufficient means to cover all possible health contingencies without resorting to insurance?
What if I prefer lesser coverage than the minimum mandated?
What right do you have to force me to substitute my judgement for yours or to get health insurance against my will?
Please tell me... I'm eager to know.
The ship is going down, because this sort of thing is not sustainable. Exceptions (which I oppose for different reasons) would only make the ship sink faster.
I understand your rational to an extent, however, how do you suppose you implement universal healthcare without some form of "gun to your head"scenario, ie taxes?
So your gripe is that you may be able to afford healthcare without insurance, therefore, forcing me to participate in universal healthcare is unforgivable. I just don't see how you could make a sustainable universal system without mass participation.
I have no right as a human to force fuck all upon you, however, extended to it';s logical conclusion your position becomes absurd as any tax is a forcible act and thus you should have the right to participate. You are fine with previous gun to head situations however you prefer to avoid any further action?
Also, The fine is not very much, unless your making some decent cheddar, at which point it's an odd position of being able to but choosing naught.
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It only costs us because we've made it cost us:
First by requiring hospitals to treat everyone, even those who can't pay, we force them to shift the costs to those who pay, making emergency rooms crowded by people who use the fact that they can't be turned away to receive care. [/color]
And second by migrating from a model where insurance was meant for catastrophic events to a model where it pays for everything.
So what I would do?
Automatically provide fallback catastrophic coverage via Medicare to every American, with a very basic level of coverage , that kicks in when you don't have coverage via work or private insurance, and then try to migrate back to a model where you pay healthcare providers for their services instead of relying on insurance, making insurance companies function as true insurance companies again.
Think about it for a second... you have homeowners insurance but you don't file a claim when a lightbulb burns out or a plant dies.
People with chronic illnesses, the type of disease that is skyrocketing in the states would die of either poverty or lack of care, most likely a combination of both.
A hospital visit is roughly a grand, stays of longer then a day very costly. A child with asthma would need several stays over the course of his childhood if it is moderate-severe. It wouldn't be feasible at all, people with chronic illness or pre-existing conditions would never get insured, unless you bypass them and use MC as you eluded.Or maybe a genetic disorder like Cystic Fibrosis would sink the ship. Either way there is going to be a situation where the sick use the resources, as it should be, while also coming off the back of the healthy. I get you self-centered view, why should I be forced to do anything, but we have informally agreed to participate in a civilization and further in a democracy where decisions we might not agree with get implemented.
Your idea is probably better then obamacare, however, if he is able to provide a plan where the penalty was menial by relative measure to the poverty line whilst still providing healthcare to all, it would be ideal.
I kinda take the view from biology with regards to our communicable nature and language that generosity is a guiding principle. Collectively we can do some really amazing things, our nature is to share and use team work.
I guess if you want more freedoms, move to Holland, the US is not very high on the list.
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http://www.clickorlando.com/news/credit-scores-impacting-new-affordable-care-act-insurance-plans/-/1637132/22341034/-/l0jmq3z/-/index.html
Eat shit Obama voting communists
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youre talking to someone who thinks the govt should provide for all healthcare needs big or small....he doesnt understand!!!
I asked AVXO the question and not you and for the last time - you're not my spokesperson so STFU
you're too fucking stupid to even understand that I was asking for his opinion and restating my own opinion (the opt out) which I've said many times before
when the I want the opinion of a retarded fifth grader I will let you know
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I asked AVXO the question and not you and for the last time - you're not my spokesperson so STFU
you're too fucking stupid to even understand that I was asking for his opinion and restating my own opinion (the opt out) which I've said many times before
when the I want the opinion of a retarded fifth grader I will let you know
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It only costs us because we've made it cost us:
First by requiring hospitals to treat everyone, even those who can't pay, we force them to shift the costs to those who pay, making emergency rooms crowded by people who use the fact that they can't be turned away to receive care.
And second by migrating from a model where insurance was meant for catastrophic events to a model where it pays for everything.
So what I would do?
Automatically provide fallback catastrophic coverage via Medicare to every American, with a very basic level of coverage , that kicks in when you don't have coverage via work or private insurance, and then try to migrate back to a model where you pay healthcare providers for their services instead of relying on insurance, making insurance companies function as true insurance companies again.
Think about it for a second... you have homeowners insurance but you don't file a claim when a lightbulb burns out or a plant dies.
not a bad start but it's the catastrophic coverage (and end of life care) that costs the most. Most people can afford to pay for a doctor visit when they have a minor issue but it's the big stuff (cancer, auto accidents, chronic illness) where they start racking up the $'s and can't afford it. How do we deal with the fact that were loading the most expensive stuff onto Medicare?
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not a bad start but it's the catastrophic coverage (and end of life care) that costs the most. Most people can afford to pay for a doctor visit when they have a minor issue but it's the big stuff (cancer, auto accidents, chronic illness) where they start racking up the $'s and can't afford it. How do we deal with the fact that were loading the most expensive stuff onto Medicare?
By impeaching Slumbama and getting a responsible person in office as a start
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It only costs us because we've made it cost us:
First by requiring hospitals to treat everyone, even those who can't pay, we force them to shift the costs to those who pay,
So you dont want hospitals to treat everyone...
making emergency rooms crowded by people who use the fact that they can't be turned away to receive care.
And second by migrating from a model where insurance was meant for catastrophic events to a model where it pays for everything.
So what I would do?
Automatically provide fallback catastrophic coverage via Medicare to every American, with a very basic level of coverage ,
But you will still give them help in case of a catastrophe (Life treatening Sickness/injuries etc that also cost the most.. Arent you contradicting yourself a little here ???
that kicks in when you don't have coverage via work or private insurance, and then try to migrate back to a model where you pay healthcare providers for their services instead of relying on insurance, making insurance companies function as true insurance companies again.
Think about it for a second... you have homeowners insurance but you don't file a claim when a lightbulb burns out or a plant dies.
Good post though nice to see a conservative with a brain and ideas.
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I asked AVXO the question and not you and for the last time - you're not my spokesperson so STFU
you're too fucking stupid to even understand that I was asking for his opinion and restating my own opinion (the opt out) which I've said many times before
when the I want the opinion of a retarded fifth grader I will let you know
lmfao was I wrong straw?
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lmfao was I wrong straw?
of course your'e wrong dipshit
nothing in my post or anything I've every written says that I believe that (as YOU wrote)
"the govt should provide for all healthcare needs big or small"
stop trying to speak for me and you'll have one less chance to look like an idiot
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of course your'e wrong dipshit
nothing in my post or anything I've every written says that I believe that (as YOU wrote)
"the govt should provide for all healthcare needs big or small"
stop trying to speak for me and you'll have one less chance to look like an idiot
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I understand your rational to an extent, however, how do you suppose you implement universal healthcare without some form of "gun to your head"scenario, ie taxes?
I don't. I don't want government-provided universal healthcare. I don't think it's a proper function of government or that such a thing is even possible and sustainable.
So your gripe is that you may be able to afford healthcare without insurance, therefore, forcing me to participate in universal healthcare is unforgivable. I just don't see how you could make a sustainable universal system without mass participation.
No, my gripe is that it isn't the job or the responsibility of the government to provide universal healthcare, not do I see how you can have a free society when you force people to buy a service.
I have no right as a human to force fuck all upon you, however, extended to it';s logical conclusion your position becomes absurd as any tax is a forcible act and thus you should have the right to participate. You are fine with previous gun to head situations however you prefer to avoid any further action?
There are things that we are taxed for that go towards providing services that are not only proper for a government to provide but which only government can provide. I'm more than happy to pay those taxes.
As for the rest of your comment, what makes you think I'm fine with previous "gun to the head" situations? Do you know me from yesterday? I am, in principle, opposed to almost all taxes the Federal government imposes as inappropriate.
Also, The fine is not very much, unless your making some decent cheddar, at which point it's an odd position of being able to but choosing naught.
Whether the fine is $0.01 or $1,000,000 is irrelevant. The point is that people are being forced, against the will, to buy a service or face a fine.
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People with chronic illnesses, the type of disease that is skyrocketing in the states would die of either poverty or lack of care, most likely a combination of both.
No they wouldn't. But hold off on that for a second, will you?
A hospital visit is roughly a grand, stays of longer then a day very costly. A child with asthma would need several stays over the course of his childhood if it is moderate-severe. It wouldn't be feasible at all, people with chronic illness or pre-existing conditions would never get insured, unless you bypass them and use MC as you eluded.Or maybe a genetic disorder like Cystic Fibrosis would sink the ship. Either way there is going to be a situation where the sick use the resources, as it should be, while also coming off the back of the healthy. I get you self-centered view, why should I be forced to do anything, but we have informally agreed to participate in a civilization and further in a democracy where decisions we might not agree with get implemented.
Let's as ourselves why is cost skyrocketing? A generation ago you could get great healthcare without going bankrupt. You could afford to see a doctor and pay for him out of your own pocket, and insurance for "big" things was much more affordable.
Fast forward to 2013... most Americans rely on insurance to pay everything and complain about $10 co-pays. Many have no primary physician because they can't afford the cost of a visit so they go and utilize the Emergency Room to get care, knowing full well they can't be turned away but will get billed and may or may not pay said bill.
Forgive me for pointing out the 800 elephant in the room, but something is fucked up here. And I'm pretty sure that the "what" is obvious.
You demonize insurance companies that have an expensive product that's not affordable. But it's not their fault that they need to keep providing more and more expensive services and are expected to cover more and more things.
Now we can go back to your earlier point. Under the current system nobody gets good healthcare. Under the older system, everybody gets healthcare, some great and some good. No need for mandates.
Your idea is probably better then obamacare, however, if he is able to provide a plan where the penalty was menial by relative measure to the poverty line whilst still providing healthcare to all, it would be ideal.
Ideal is a relative world. I don't see a world with universal government healthcare as ideal. I see it as a world in which government is not the servant of the people but their ruler.
Such systems have been tried before and failed. Of those that haven't failed, most are in the process of failing, and those that aren't are operating under unusual circumstances that don't apply to everyone else.
I kinda take the view from biology with regards to our communicable nature and language that generosity is a guiding principle. Collectively we can do some really amazing things, our nature is to share and use team work.
I take another lesson from natural selection. The playing field isn't level and some are better suited to survive than others. This may sound cruel and heartless and it's not the popular thing to say, but there you have it.
With that said, we do live in a society in which even those who could otherwise not survive are given a chance to. I don't know that we should – or should – model our society to guarantee their survival.
I guess if you want more freedoms, move to Holland, the US is not very high on the list.
Sorry, but politically Europe isn't my cup of tea. Wonderful to visit, but not somewhere I'd want to live on a permanent basis. Have you heard what the nutjobs at the European Parliament and the Commission are doing? Yikes.
The U.S. may not be perfect, but long ago, I made a conscious decision about where and under what system I wanted to live; the U.S. is, for all it's faults, the place I chose back then and would choose today.
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You have to be insured to drive a car, why shouldn't you be required to carry insurance to use hospitals or any other medical service?
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You have to be insured to drive a car, why shouldn't you be required to carry insurance to use hospitals or any other medical service?
Hey you stupid fucking tampon - you don't need insiruance to get a drivers license correct?
Now go kill yourself homo
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You have to be insured to drive a car, why shouldn't you be required to carry insurance to use hospitals or any other medical service?
Because the government can require you to have a license to drive a car on its roads. You can drive a car on your private property without insurance – or even a license.
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Hey you stupid fucking tampon - you don't need insiruance to get a drivers license correct?
Now go kill yourself homo
I can't speak about insiruance, but insurance? You don't need to attain a license. Nice fail, stupid fuck. That's like saying you don't need health insurance to get sick. I'm all for letting people opt out, but once you opt out, your out. Banned from ER's and all medical attention unless your paying COD.
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I can't speak about insiruance, but insurance? You don't need to attain a license. Nice fail, stupid fuck. That's like saying you don't need health insurance to get sick. I'm all for letting people opt out, but once you opt out, your out. Banned from ER's and all medical attention unless your paying COD.
Cry me a river commie
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Cry me a river commie
Pot, meet kettle.
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You have to be insured to drive a car, why shouldn't you be required to carry insurance to use hospitals or any other medical service?
You're skipping the part where you're not forced to drive moron.
If you CHA CHA CHOOOOSE to drive on public roads you need car insurance.
What part of obamacare gives you a choice to opt out?
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of course your'e wrong dipshit
nothing in my post or anything I've every written says that I believe that (as YOU wrote)
"the govt should provide for all healthcare needs big or small"
stop trying to speak for me and you'll have one less chance to look like an idiot
So you don't want universal coverage then?
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You're skipping the part where you're not forced to drive moron.
If you CHA CHA CHOOOOSE to drive on public roads you need car insurance.
What part of obamacare gives you a choice to opt out?
Most taxesare counter to your pro choice argument. Meanwhile, you are against abortions no? seems you have a selective outrage on choice
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Most taxesare counter to your pro choice argument. Meanwhile, you are against abortions no? seems you have a selective outrage on choice
No most are contingent on an action not contingent on simply living.
List those taxes that are not contingent on a individual's action.
I'm pro choice in the situation of rape, other than that you CHA CHA CHOSE to engage in sexual activity knowing the possible consequences.
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No most are contingent on an action not contingent on simply living.
List those taxes that are not contingent on a individual's action.
I'm pro choice in the situation of rape, other than that you CHA CHA CHOSE to engage in sexual activity knowing the possible consequences.
People also choose to go skiing knowing the possible consequences. Should they not bendable to have their leg set if they break it?
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No most are contingent on an action not contingent on simply living.
List those taxes that are not contingent on a individual's action.
I'm pro choice in the situation of rape, other than that you CHA CHA CHOSE to engage in sexual activity knowing the possible consequences.
The basic necessities of life like shelter, food, water etc are required regardless of action, or death occurs. These things have unavoidable taxes and by extension are not contingent on choice.
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Democrats are too STUPID to be scared.
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Democrats are too STUPID to be scared.
So stoopiid
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The basic necessities of life like shelter, food, water etc are required regardless of action, or death occurs. These things have unavoidable taxes and by extension are not contingent on choice.
Actually essential food and water is not taxed and shelter can be had without taxes.
If you CHA CHA CHOOSE to go outside of certain foods and water and I believe milk, You get taxed...
Nice try
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People also choose to go skiing knowing the possible consequences. Should they not bendable to have their leg set if they break it?
What, should they not be bendable?
I assume you mean "be able"?
If that's the case of course they should, don't think that is a fair comparison as you getting your leg set is not effecting anyone else but yourself though.
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Actually essential food and water is not taxed and shelter can be had without taxes.
If you CHA CHA CHOOSE to go outside of certain foods and water and I believe milk, You get taxed...
Nice try
Not really, if taken to the extreme and you want to squat in the woods etc.. if you are using the clean water provided by the state then yes. If you are boiling water from a pond, sure.
I suppose you have a point if exceptional circumstances are being maintained.
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O-fucktardcare is already collapsing
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Not really, if taken to the extreme and you want to squat in the woods etc.. if you are using the clean water provided by the state then yes. If you are boiling water from a pond, sure.
I suppose you have a point if exceptional circumstances are being maintained.
again NOOOO
you can go to the store and buy tax free food, water and again I believe milk...
nice try though libtard
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again NOOOO
you can go to the store and buy tax free food, water and again I believe milk...
nice try though libtard
What were we arguing again?