Author Topic: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.  (Read 7542 times)

Soul Crusher

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bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2013, 12:22:25 PM »
My sentiments exactly.  Its a wait and see situation for me.   There are still a lot of questions to be answered and a lot of the information out there, on both sides of the issue, is speculation.

the people who sit on here and argue like they KNOW how this is all going to work are fucking idiots.  and they have no desire to hear how this is affecting anyone.  its downright disturbing.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2013, 01:32:11 PM »
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Obamacare-Facebook-Erupts-With-Citizen-Sticker-Shock


No free lunch?   No way!!!!

so government is taking over health care because people's premiums were just getting so ridiculous because those "evil corporate white guys" were preying upon the people.  so they set up this exchange......and charge the same fucking thing.  the only difference is now you are penalized if you don't wanna buy it.  wow.  just wow.

AndreaRyc

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2013, 01:58:57 PM »
so government is taking over health care because people's premiums were just getting so ridiculous because those "evil corporate white guys" were preying upon the people.  so they set up this exchange......and charge the same fucking thing.  the only difference is now you are penalized if you don't wanna buy it.  wow.  just wow.
As the insurable pool expands, rates go down.  If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes.  Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil?  Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.

The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing.  We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured).  You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage.  Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.

I think we can do better than that.  If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that.  But, for the greater good.

bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2013, 02:06:14 PM »
As the insurable pool expands, rates go down.  If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes.  Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil?  Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.

The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing.  We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured).  You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage.  Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.

I think we can do better than that.  If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that.  But, for the greater good.

you're simply guessing that these rates will go down and that this is for "the greater good".  you are acting on faith. 

people like you are simply rooting for Obama.  not approaching this with a certain level of professional skepticism like we all should. 

do me a favor.  tell me what Obamacare could do to make you stop defending it?  please answer this question.  and give some objective criteria of something they could do to make you become an opponent.

avxo

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2013, 03:03:03 PM »
As the insurable pool expands, rates go down.  If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes.  Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil?  Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.

Evil? I don't think a business should be forced to take on customers it doesn't want to take on and so, by extension, I don't think an insurance company should be forced to take on risk it doesn't want to take on. If you think there's a viable business for providing coverage to those that could not get coverage before then by all means, start up your own insurance company... why don't you? I'll tell you why: because starting a business to do this would be unprofitable and you wouldn't last long.

You really think the insurance companies don't want to have more paying customers? They do. It's just that they aren't in the business of charity.

Speaking of charity, if you feel so strongly about this issue, why not just start a charity that offers to pay (in part or in full) the necessary rates? Such a charity would have the same net effect ultimately: expanding the insurable poor, thereby lowering rates and so on. And since it would rely on donations, it wouldn't be morally questionable.



The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing.  We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured).  You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage.  Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.

That's a whole load of bullshit. The ACA does little, or nothing to help, and comes at a big cost (and I am not taking monetary costs here).

You can trot statistics and numbers but others can play this game too. Let's assume 45,000 people a year die from this "problem" (i.e. that they cannot get or afford health insurance). As for your appeal to emotion, don't forget that there's 21,000 people dying every day from hunger or hunger-related issues in the world. What do you propose to do about them? Or isn't food a higher priority than healthcare?


I think we can do better than that.  If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that.  But, for the greater good.

Fuck the greater good. I have no desire to subsidize the "greater good" even if we agreed on what "greater good" meant, which I suspect we wouldn't. Why do you think that you can force me to use my means to finance your ends?

bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2013, 03:14:36 PM »
As the insurable pool expands, rates go down.  If they do not go down, then that money is being funneled elsewhere for other purposes.  Those evil corporate white guys have pretty much stuck it to America and you're absolving them of their evil?  Health is not a commodity but we seem to think so here in the US of A.

The ACA sucks but it is better than nothing.  We have a HC insurance problem affecting 100 million or so people (unisured or underinsured).  You're judgment, colored by self-interest, denies many of those people coverage.  Some 45,000 people a year die from this problem.

I think we can do better than that.  If you have transition costs that cause you consternation, I'm sorry about that.  But, for the greater good.

also "colored by self interest"????  

let me ask YOU.   i have myself and my family, and 5 employees and their families that I need to pay health insurance for.

what about you?

Gonuclear

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2013, 04:00:03 PM »
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northeast_valley/fountain_hills/fountain-hills-man-dropped-from-health-insurance-because-of-new-regulations



Eat shit Obama bots

No reasoning, no argument ever, just cut and paste from right wing web sites, and "eat shit."

Very edifying.   

Be careful: You may be a laughingstock in your own circles.


RRKore

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2013, 07:50:34 PM »
they wont, these people are as set in the next elections are as pelosi is in hers...if that bat shit crazy broad can get re-elected these people will have a breeze getting re-elected

How is Pelosi batshit crazy?  (Really, I know right-tards hate her, but hadn't heard that she's supposed be crazy.) 
BTW, how would you describe Michelle Bachmann? Super duper, really, really, really, really crazy?

avxo

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2013, 08:32:03 PM »
How is Pelosi batshit crazy?  (Really, I know right-tards hate her, but hadn't heard that she's supposed be crazy.) 
BTW, how would you describe Michelle Bachmann? Super duper, really, really, really, really crazy?


I describe her exactly like I describe Pelosi: an nutjob extremist; they only differ in their particular brand of craziness.

Archer77

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2013, 06:08:07 AM »
Even if the pool of insured expand the expenditures increase as well. This is a tough issue.  I feel for bear and I don't think he's being selfish.
A

Soul Crusher

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2013, 06:10:16 AM »

Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2013, 06:26:07 AM »
so government is taking over health care because people's premiums were just getting so ridiculous because those "evil corporate white guys" were preying upon the people.  so they set up this exchange......and charge the same fucking thing.  the only difference is now you are penalized if you don't wanna buy it.  wow.  just wow.

Wrong. Read a book.

AndreaRyc

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2013, 06:29:14 AM »
you're simply guessing that these rates will go down and that this is for "the greater good".  you are acting on faith. 

people like you are simply rooting for Obama.  not approaching this with a certain level of professional skepticism like we all should. 

do me a favor.  tell me what Obamacare could do to make you stop defending it?  please answer this question.  and give some objective criteria of something they could do to make you become an opponent.
I'm guessing and acting on faith...what do you do?  Re-write your programning?

Of course people like me are rooting for Obama.  We are called normal Americans.  We want out country and countrymen to succeeds.

I know that is alien to far right wing fringe groups like yours.  In our world, we have values and dreams that interestect with those of others and we all have a great time.  We aren't jealous of our neighbor nor do we wish him or her harm.


When will I stop backing the ACA?  How about when the Neo-nazi party offers up a health insurnace package that isn't crooked and covers more than what the president's plan covers.

AndreaRyc

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2013, 07:17:00 AM »
Evil? I don't think a business should be forced to take on customers it doesn't want to take on and so, by extension, I don't think an insurance company should be forced to take on risk it doesn't want to take on. If you think there's a viable business for providing coverage to those that could not get coverage before then by all means, start up your own insurance company... why don't you? I'll tell you why: because starting a business to do this would be unprofitable and you wouldn't last long.

You really think the insurance companies don't want to have more paying customers? They do. It's just that they aren't in the business of charity.

Speaking of charity, if you feel so strongly about this issue, why not just start a charity that offers to pay (in part or in full) the necessary rates? Such a charity would have the same net effect ultimately: expanding the insurable poor, thereby lowering rates and so on. And since it would rely on donations, it wouldn't be morally questionable.



That's a whole load of bullshit. The ACA does little, or nothing to help, and comes at a big cost (and I am not taking monetary costs here).

You can trot statistics and numbers but others can play this game too. Let's assume 45,000 people a year die from this "problem" (i.e. that they cannot get or afford health insurance). As for your appeal to emotion, don't forget that there's 21,000 people dying every day from hunger or hunger-related issues in the world. What do you propose to do about them? Or isn't food a higher priority than healthcare?


Fuck the greater good. I have no desire to subsidize the "greater good" even if we agreed on what "greater good" meant, which I suspect we wouldn't. Why do you think that you can force me to use my means to finance your ends?
health insurance should not be a commodity.  But it is.  Big insurance does not make its fortune byapproving claims.  But I will take your advice to start an isnurance company.  I'll only do it if yoou're 50% partner.  In fairness to me, I don't know what the content ofthe remainder of your email is.

bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2013, 07:29:27 AM »
I'm guessing and acting on faith...what do you do?  Re-write your programning?

Of course people like me are rooting for Obama.  We are called normal Americans.  We want out country and countrymen to succeeds.

I know that is alien to far right wing fringe groups like yours.  In our world, we have values and dreams that interestect with those of others and we all have a great time.  We aren't jealous of our neighbor nor do we wish him or her harm.


When will I stop backing the ACA?  How about when the Neo-nazi party offers up a health insurnace package that isn't crooked and covers more than what the president's plan covers.


you refer to the Republican party as the "neo nazi" party.  i readily admit in all of my posts that I'm all for Obamacare if I see that it does what Obama and his administration says it would do.  and i'm far right?  LOL!!   


bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2013, 07:31:19 AM »
Wrong. Read a book.

what is wrong about what i just said?  are the options on the exchange cheaper?  or are you just hurling weak insults because you know that I'm right?

bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2013, 07:34:56 AM »
health insurance should not be a commodity.  But it is.  Big insurance does not make its fortune byapproving claims.  But I will take your advice to start an isnurance company.  I'll only do it if yoou're 50% partner.  In fairness to me, I don't know what the content ofthe remainder of your email is.

right and you have NO DOUBT that nothing will be denied to anyone if they buy their health insurance from the exchange.  they won't have a budget?  do they have endless amounts of money now?  where do you get your information? 

bears

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2013, 07:44:15 AM »
I'm guessing and acting on faith...what do you do?  Re-write your programning?

Of course people like me are rooting for Obama.  We are called normal Americans.  We want out country and countrymen to succeeds.

I know that is alien to far right wing fringe groups like yours.  In our world, we have values and dreams that interestect with those of others and we all have a great time.  We aren't jealous of our neighbor nor do we wish him or her harm.


When will I stop backing the ACA?  How about when the Neo-nazi party offers up a health insurnace package that isn't crooked and covers more than what the president's plan covers.

you also never answered my question.  how many people do you pay health insurance for? 

Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2013, 07:57:04 AM »
what is wrong about what i just said?  are the options on the exchange cheaper?  or are you just hurling weak insults because you know that I'm right?

Well it depends on the person and plan, however the bronze plan as well as the default fine are pretty fucking cheap. You have over 50 employees? if not you should be exempt.

The fact that the fine will never be more then the bronze plan indicates that it is in fact affordable healthcare for all.


Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2013, 08:02:06 AM »
you also never answered my question.  how many people do you pay health insurance for? 

You must have over 50 employees? otherwise what the fuck are you doing. Visit the SHOP program, the tax incentives also should reduce your cost. You should be able to get tax credits if under 25 employees making less then 50k. Your medicare tax should not move, fact.

Didn't you state you have 6 employees? what type of business are you running?

If what you are saying is true, there is a serious disconnect between the available facts and reality or theory and practice.

Archer77

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2013, 09:06:18 AM »
I believe there is some room to argue that health care should be beyond the real of the free market. In the advanced wealthy society we live in, there is no excuse for people dying because of access to healthcare.

If we demand healthcare as a basic tenant of a social contract between the people and the state we should expect the citizens to hold up their end of the bargain by acting responsibly.  In such a system what should the people be required to do? 
A

avxo

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2013, 09:51:06 AM »
health insurance should not be a commodity.  But it is.  Big insurance does not make its fortune byapproving claims.  But I will take your advice to start an isnurance company.  I'll only do it if yoou're 50% partner.  In fairness to me, I don't know what the content ofthe remainder of your email is.

I wouldn't go 50% into a hot dog stand with you. Your business acumen leaves a lot to be desired.

Necrosis

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Re: Why the Health Care Law Scares the G.O.P.
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2013, 10:12:47 AM »
You must have over 50 employees? otherwise what the fuck are you doing. Visit the SHOP program, the tax incentives also should reduce your cost. You should be able to get tax credits if under 25 employees making less then 50k. Your medicare tax should not move, fact.

Didn't you state you have 6 employees? what type of business are you running?

If what you are saying is true, there is a serious disconnect between the available facts and reality or theory and practice.


Bears I got this feeling your a liar.