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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: deadz on December 17, 2013, 01:53:59 PM

Title: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: deadz on December 17, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
He was in the gym I train at the other day personal training. It's true, as I've always known, BB is ALL DRUGS; sorry Vince.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: arce1988 on December 17, 2013, 02:18:35 PM
PED + DNA
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Parker on December 17, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
He was in the gym I train at the other day personal training. It's true, as I've always known, BB is ALL DRUGS; sorry Vince.
You mean the 50 plus year old Vince Taylor who is well known to train with light weights, as per his training philosophy?
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: stavios on December 17, 2013, 02:27:38 PM
You mean the 50 plus year old Vince Taylor who is well known to train with light weights, as per his training philosophy?

exactly
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: arce1988 on December 17, 2013, 02:32:15 PM
 :D ;D
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Bevo on December 17, 2013, 03:35:16 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Parker on December 17, 2013, 03:53:49 PM
exactly
The man is what, 55-56 yrs old and probably could still do well in bottom rung contests today...
No real major injuries...trained light, used the gas...dude didn't say how he looked.

one of John Brown's boys...
Maybe it was John Brown who was Trainer Of Champions---Vince Taylor, Shawn Ray, and Melvin Anthony.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Fortress on December 17, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
Taylor is all smiles for his "fans", but (used to, at least) think he was some sort of king shit.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 17, 2013, 05:58:37 PM
Tremendous genes.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on December 17, 2013, 06:22:57 PM
Vince Taylor -- GOAT
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Danimal77 on December 17, 2013, 07:10:53 PM
The man is what, 55-56 yrs old and probably could still do well in bottom rung contests today...
No real major injuries...trained light, used the gas...dude didn't say how he looked.

one of John Brown's boys...
Maybe it was John Brown who was Trainer Of Champions---Vince Taylor, Shawn Ray, and Melvin Anthony.

He's 57 years old. Was one of the bodybuilders (along with Labrada) who made the transition from late 80's bodybuilders to early-mid 90's bodybuilders:

Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: stavios on December 17, 2013, 08:20:18 PM
The man is what, 55-56 yrs old and probably could still do well in bottom rung contests today...
No real major injuries...trained light, used the gas...dude didn't say how he looked.

one of John Brown's boys...
Maybe it was John Brown who was Trainer Of Champions---Vince Taylor, Shawn Ray, and Melvin Anthony.

exactly

people say dexter and vince don't train hard but as a matter of fact, I think they are the one who really knew how to train

no injuries like you said and an awesome physique despite their age

Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on December 17, 2013, 08:29:12 PM
exactly

people say dexter and vince don't train hard but as a matter of fact, I think they are the one who really knew how to train

no injuries like you said and an awesome physique despite their age



Perfectly said. True masters of the art of bodybuilding

Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: galeniko on December 17, 2013, 08:46:30 PM
He was in the gym I train at the other day personal training. It's true, as I've always known, BB is ALL DRUGS; sorry Vince.
what made you conculde that?is he smaller now or something?

or does he just do the pumping little bit up trainings?
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: dyslexic on December 17, 2013, 09:24:17 PM
Post a pic of him today. WTF?

This post is useless otherwise. Right?
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: deadz on December 18, 2013, 09:19:43 AM
what made you conculde that?is he smaller now or something?

or does he just do the pumping little bit up trainings?
He was training someone else, he wasn't training himself. He was swimming in what appeared to be a size Large t-shirt. He was wearing pants  to likely cover he non-existent legs. Although he wasn't training he still felt the need to carry he "invincible" belt with him. Overall frame was shriveled up. I understand he's old and is likely on hrt just thought i'd share. This sighting occurred in South Florida. Dwayne Johnson also trains at the same gym. Sometimes he's big, sometimes he's not, just depends on the upcoming movie role. Dwayne also brings a very average looking girl to the gym with him. She's at least ten years younger than him but not worth a second look surprisingly.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Natural Beast on December 18, 2013, 09:40:52 AM
lol he is almost 60 years old.. bbing is not all drugs u can make solid gains with little dosages if u know how to train and diet... and about vince there is no point for him to be big anymore.

what an idiot you are...
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Ronnie Rep on December 18, 2013, 09:48:00 AM
He was in the gym I train at the other day personal training. It's true, as I've always known, BB is ALL DRUGS; sorry Vince.
Where do you train? I used to train at Club Fit in Cooper City with Rocky Johnson, The Rocks dad!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Fortress on December 18, 2013, 09:53:15 AM
Truth is, sure, people, to varying degrees, can develop muscle without drugs and extra hormones. Some can build quite a lot. But to acquire a physique such as the kind (and conditioning/tightness) Vince sported during his competitive days absolutely demands the use of these things. Undoubtably an individual has to also possess a certain combination of genetic traits to reap the rewards of such use that results in a pro-caliber physique; but in a very real sense, the drugs, etc., are the "key".

Taylor's training would never have built the man much of anything bodybuilding-worthy had he not been using large amounts of drugs and hormones. Fact. He would have been a muscular but small guy.

A true muscle man has dense muscle and great strength, even without drugs.

Vince has neither.  
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: LurkerNoMore on December 18, 2013, 10:00:00 AM
I have trained with Vince several times.  Great person.  Very knowledgeable and smart.  He is the second funniest BBer I know and have trained with.  Paul Baker being the first.  But overall a really good dude.  Can't say anything about him or his results.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 18, 2013, 10:07:42 AM
Genetics, without a doubt, is the number 1 factor. All drugs is everything after that. Without genetics, he'd be another bloated gym rat or getbig member.
X2.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: njflex on December 18, 2013, 10:18:32 AM
guy turned pro in 88 nationals lght heavy at 188 lbs and looked skinned and arms/calves were sick even at that lighter weight ,topped out as pro 15/20 yrs later 240 on stage or close to it..unreal bber/poser.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 18, 2013, 10:22:13 AM
Vance Traylor and DeWayne Johnston. 
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Wiggs on December 18, 2013, 10:23:24 AM
Vance Traylor and DeWayne Johnston. 

LOL. Vance Traylor.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Parker on December 18, 2013, 10:25:10 AM
Truth is, sure, people, to varying degrees, can develop muscle without drugs and extra hormones. Some can build quite a lot. But to acquire a physique such as the kind (and conditioning/tightness) Vince sported during his competitive days absolutely demands the use of these things. Undoubtably an individual has to also possess a certain combination of genetic traits to reap the rewards of such use that results in a pro-caliber physique; but in a very real sense, the drugs, etc., are the "key".

Taylor's training would never have built the man much of anything bodybuilding-worthy had he not been using large amounts of drugs and hormones. Fact. He would have been a muscular but small guy.

A true muscle man has dense muscle and great strength, even without drugs.

Vince has neither.  
Vince was in the 220s earlier in his career and about 235 through out the rest of his career. Nobody denies he used...He is right up there at the top with most wins. His training methods has been consistently documented as being light to moderate, with high reps. And he started out late, at the age of 28.

But, I don't expect Vince at 57 yrs old to stay the same size and shape as he was when he was in his 40s.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: bentone on December 18, 2013, 10:29:00 AM
Dreads you are a world class dipshit. So let me get this straight..so you are critiquing one of the best bodybuilders of all time for looking small in street clothes at nearly 60 years old? I am sure that even at his age he is still 1000x the bodybuilder you could ever hope to be.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Wiggs on December 18, 2013, 10:32:52 AM
Don't worry about deadz. He is indeed a world class dipshit.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: MB on December 18, 2013, 11:01:41 AM
No one criticizes a retired offensive lineman because they're not as fat and heavy as when they played, but bodybuilders are suppose to look ready for the stage their entire life. 
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Wiggs on December 18, 2013, 11:12:20 AM
I'm pretty sure deadz is mildly retarded and has self esteem issues.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: dyslexic on December 18, 2013, 05:39:53 PM
Anyone remember what Vince used to claim was a main-stay of his diet?

[ DR ] How has your diet evolved over the years?
VT: That is the worst thing ever (laughs). It still is and will never change. My diet will never change... Coca Cola, red meat and ketchup. I will always have my Coca Cola. Right now it gets blended with a little scotch most of the time, and I have my beer. My diet has always been relaxed. It has never been one of those strict diets.

"I always try to maintain at least three meals a day, sometimes this is very hard. Sometimes it is one or two. This time around I have bumped it to five meals by adding two shakes to my diet. But overall I'm not a big food consumer, never have been, never would be. So nothing has really changed there."


[ DR ] That is a very unorthodox approach. What is the composition of your diet?
VT: High protein. High carbohydrates I have very seldom, especially now I have been training hard for the last seven months or so. My carb intake has always been low. I don't like breads and don't eat a lot of potatoes and white rice. You won't find my type of eating habits in home. My eating habits are more Burger King burgers - I do this often. My main meal is breakfast, which is bacon, eggs, ketchup.


I will never forget this. True or not. Ha ha!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: dyslexic on December 18, 2013, 05:45:32 PM
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/16389-vince-taylors-diet.html


Crazy shit if it's true!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: wild willie on December 18, 2013, 06:18:39 PM
Taylor is all smiles for his "fans", but (used to, at least) think he was some sort of king shit.
asshole strikes again.....vince was always a true gentleman.....met him at least three times and couldn't have been nicer!!!!


you just have to be a prick!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: wild willie on December 18, 2013, 08:38:18 PM
Dreads you are a world class dipshit. So let me get this straight..so you are critiquing one of the best bodybuilders of all time for looking small in street clothes at nearly 60 years old? I am sure that even at his age he is still 1000x the bodybuilder you could ever hope to be.
EXACTLY!!!!! SPOT ON!!!! SENSATIONAL POST!!!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: jwb on December 18, 2013, 09:42:19 PM
Is the guy supposed to stay big and drop dead like Nasser?
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: ESFitness on December 18, 2013, 09:53:09 PM
He was training someone else, he wasn't training himself. He was swimming in what appeared to be a size Large t-shirt. He was wearing pants  to likely cover he non-existent legs. Although he wasn't training he still felt the need to carry he "invincible" belt with him. Overall frame was shriveled up. I understand he's old and is likely on hrt just thought i'd share. This sighting occurred in South Florida. Dwayne Johnson also trains at the same gym. Sometimes he's big, sometimes he's not, just depends on the upcoming movie role. Dwayne also brings a very average looking girl to the gym with him. She's at least ten years younger than him but not worth a second look surprisingly.

are you completely clueless as to how steroids work?

are you completely clueless as to what is required to maintain 50+lbs of mass OVER what your body would naturally carry (and be at less than 10% bf)???

if it requires 3g's per week to maintain a 255lb physique at sub7% bf, plus 4500kcal per day, what the motherfuck do you think is gonna happen when you cut the doses down to 200mg/wk AND go back to eating like a normal human being?... are you really THAT fucking dense?

FOOD + DRUGS = your physique

if a guy cuts the drugs, but maintains the food, he's gonna get fat and you're gonna cry like a little bitch AGAIN about how "he's a fat-ass now! he's all drugs! yep, I knew it!"

if a guy cuts the drugs and the food, he's gonna shrink down to about what he would normally look like if he never used drugs in the first place. are you too stupid to realize that this is true for EVERY FUCKING STEROID USER. Dorian, Ronnie, branch, lee labrada, rich gaspari, lee haney, ect ect ect.

Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Natural Beast on December 18, 2013, 10:34:27 PM
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/16389-vince-taylors-diet.html


Crazy shit if it's true!
lol of course its not true.. he must be trolling
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: dyslexic on December 18, 2013, 10:49:43 PM
lol of course its not true.. he must be trolling

This story has been around for a long, long time. Not sure what it has to do with "trolling" ~ probably about as much as every other nonsensical remark made here...



Well, Vince does have to try and make a living after his Pro BB career. Can't blame him for trying.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Natural Beast on December 18, 2013, 11:18:23 PM
This story has been around for a long, long time. Not sure what it has to do with "trolling" ~ probably about as much as every other nonsensical remark made here...



so you really believe he drinks his beer,scotch and coca cola everyday ? come on...
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 19, 2013, 12:09:14 AM
This story has been around for a long, long time. Not sure what it has to do with "trolling" ~ probably about as much as every other nonsensical remark made here...



Well, Vince does have to try and make a living after his Pro BB career. Can't blame him for trying.
Amazing dude is like 60.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: kyomu on December 19, 2013, 12:38:49 AM
No one criticizes a retired offensive lineman because they're not as fat and heavy as when they played, but bodybuilders are suppose to look ready for the stage their entire life. 
x2
People are jeolous dipshit.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 19, 2013, 12:49:02 AM
x2
People are jeolous dipshit.
How is the training going with Paco man?
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: The_Punisher on December 19, 2013, 04:52:21 AM
Vince used to be called "the most entertaining bodybuilder on stage".....he truly was and he didn't have to strip on stage or stand on his head or fuck Grapefruits.....
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Ronnie Rep on December 19, 2013, 05:35:42 AM
Taylor is all smiles for his "fans", but (used to, at least) think he was some sort of king shit.
You are full of shit! I live in South Florida and have trained with Vince run in to him at BB shows over the last 20 years or so! There isn't a nicer more personable down to earth guy in Bodybuilding!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Natural Beast on December 19, 2013, 05:45:01 AM
Amazing dude is like 60.
agree so much for "small"  ::) dude is in great shape for his age! im wondering how dexter will look after he retires... him and dexter have the best genetics amongst the pros...
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: dyslexic on December 20, 2013, 07:52:02 PM
so you really believe he drinks his beer,scotch and coca cola everyday ? come on...

I actually watched an interview where he said that three meals a day was a real bitch for him. He still say's the same thing. He mentioned the burger, scotch and Coke, but no, I didn't believe it 100% just like I don't believe anything I read or hear in an interview 100%.

I mean, what do you think about Jay Cutler saying "I'm the greatest bodybuilder ever?" ~ he might be good, great and even *one* of the best, but you have to believe that he believes this statement to a certain degree. He is entirely full of himself.

If there was even a half-truth to what Vince used to always say when it came to dieting, then yes, I believe he was fairly lax as were many many others. Even if Flex and MMI gave full-blown diets according to what these guys *might* have been saying.

I'm not sure how many Pro bodybuilders you know, or that would confide in you, but I can tell you this with all certainty: What the magazines write and what their endorsement contracts purport have almost absolutely nothing to do with what really goes on in their lives.

Back to Vince. Yeah, I think he slacked... a lot. I also think he has superior genetics. I know Pro Bodybuilders who workout in my gym that eat nothing but garbage and are ripped to shreds. Come contest time, yeah, things change, but there is a hell of a lot more that changes than their diets.

Do you get my point, or was that too much rambling? Trust me, there is a point in there... somewhere.

Getbig. What do we mainly do here? If it isn't a WYHI thread, we basically guess, make assumptions, condemn, opinionate and revel in cynicism.

Truth? Here?

Lol me to death ~
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: njflex on December 20, 2013, 08:03:01 PM
this even though later in career is as soft as vince got 'guest posing'huge arms...
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: ESFitness on December 20, 2013, 08:07:28 PM
how many meals did Nasser get in per day? 2? maybe 3? in the offseason...
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: cephissus on December 20, 2013, 08:09:44 PM
Truth is, sure, people, to varying degrees, can develop muscle without drugs and extra hormones. Some can build quite a lot. But to acquire a physique such as the kind (and conditioning/tightness) Vince sported during his competitive days absolutely demands the use of these things. Undoubtably an individual has to also possess a certain combination of genetic traits to reap the rewards of such use that results in a pro-caliber physique; but in a very real sense, the drugs, etc., are the "key".

Taylor's training would never have built the man much of anything bodybuilding-worthy had he not been using large amounts of drugs and hormones. Fact. He would have been a muscular but small guy.

A true muscle man has dense muscle and great strength, even without drugs.

Vince has neither.  

The fuck are you babbling about... you don't even know what he looks like right now.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Natural Beast on December 20, 2013, 11:27:31 PM
(http://www.freakestphysique.blogger.com.br/vince_taylor.jpg)
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: thebrink on December 21, 2013, 05:35:00 AM
lol he is almost 60 years old.. bbing is not all drugs u can make solid gains with little dosages if u know how to train and diet... and about vince there is no point for him to be big anymore.

what an idiot you are...

This. Skinny pussy and abusers are always the ones to claim this bs. I'm decently large and jacked, haven't used in years (like others on here)
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: macos on December 21, 2013, 06:20:43 AM
He's 57 years old. Was one of the bodybuilders (along with Labrada) who made the transition from late 80's bodybuilders to early-mid 90's bodybuilders:


that is a shrug addict.......wait a minute......we all are
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: wes on December 21, 2013, 06:23:48 AM
Vince,great bodybuilder,helluva` nice guy.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: macos on December 21, 2013, 06:25:32 AM
One of the most dedicated and honest too  ::)
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: kyomu on December 21, 2013, 08:33:45 AM
How is the training going with Paco man?
After being sick both of us(it cost 2fvckin weeks to recuperate!!), now we start training together again.
Paco got smaller because he couldnt eat. He is always suffering from eating. So when he get sick,he eats like a lil birds.
He doesnt eat like horse like other mass monster. I dont have any clue how he can maintain that mass with that low calories.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: macos on December 21, 2013, 09:45:49 AM
After being sick both of us(it cost 2fvckin weeks to recuperate!!), now we start training together again.
Paco got smaller because he couldnt eat. He is always suffering from eating. So when he get sick,he eats like a lil birds.
He doesnt eat like horse like other mass monster. I dont have any clue how he can maintain that mass with that low calories.
switches to dht base
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: deadz on December 23, 2013, 01:12:52 PM
Vince was so butt hurt by this thread he had the owners of the gym put up one of his "Masters of the Pose" plaques on the wall a day after I started this thread. Can you say FRAGILE EGO, Vince???
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Cleanest Natural on December 23, 2013, 02:03:18 PM
Do not be naive people. Yes he lied and misled. He dieted very strict like ALL of them and took 2 pharmas to come in condition.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: dyslexic on December 23, 2013, 08:51:15 PM
Do not be naive people. Yes he lied and misled. He dieted very strict like ALL of them and took 2 pharmas to come in condition.


Lol ~


All of us are "naive" when it comes to Pro bodybuilding. Only an IFBB Pro would truly know the inside story on what it takes to stand on a Mr. Olympia stage.


There is no "secret" but yet there are tons.... ha ha


Live to die young with the perfect looking body. Clueless here.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Cleanest Natural on December 24, 2013, 03:09:08 AM

Lol ~


All of us are "naive" when it comes to Pro bodybuilding. Only an IFBB Pro would truly know the inside story on what it takes to stand on a Mr. Olympia stage.


There is no "secret" but yet there are tons.... ha ha


Live to die young with the perfect looking body. Clueless here.
I was trained by a top10 Mr O who was close to Vince.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Natural Beast on December 24, 2013, 05:35:49 AM
He doesnt eat like horse like other mass monster. I dont have any clue how he can maintain that mass with that low calories.

i think i know.. with lots of gear.. he looks like someone who abuses though.. his gut is very well developed
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Fortress on December 24, 2013, 07:07:44 AM
You are full of shit! I live in South Florida and have trained with Vince run in to him at BB shows over the last 20 years or so! There isn't a nicer more personable down to earth guy in Bodybuilding!

Exactly. Read my post again.  ::)
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: YngiweRhoads on December 24, 2013, 07:11:18 AM
Genetics, without a doubt, is the number 1 factor. All drugs is everything after that. Without genetics, he'd be another bloated gym rat or getbig member.


Pros respond well to drugs. That's why they're pros.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor
Post by: Ronnie Rep on December 24, 2013, 07:17:37 AM
Taylor is all smiles for his "fans", but (used to, at least) think he was some sort of king shit.
What does that mean? Used to, you are inferring he acted like an asshole, at some point! I have never heard that or seen that! I know lots of people that know him for years and everybody says the same thing about him!
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Cleanest Natural on December 24, 2013, 07:29:22 AM
He is one of the nicest people. I have never heard anything bad about this guy.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: Danimal77 on December 24, 2013, 12:49:31 PM
Vince was in the 220s earlier in his career and about 235 through out the rest of his career. Nobody denies he used...He is right up there at the top with most wins. His training methods has been consistently documented as being light to moderate, with high reps. And he started out late, at the age of 28.

But, I don't expect Vince at 57 yrs old to stay the same size and shape as he was when he was in his 40s.

Dude was much less than 220's earlier in his career. Like Porter Cottrell, he was sub-200 and slowly brought up his weight. He competed at around 210-215 for a while and then brought his weight up to his 230's.
Title: Re: Vince Taylor and Dwayne Johnson
Post by: njflex on December 24, 2013, 06:51:44 PM
Dude was much less than 220's earlier in his career. Like Porter Cottrell, he was sub-200 and slowly brought up his weight. He competed at around 210-215 for a while and then brought his weight up to his 230's.
208 91 mro i believe,,3rd place eyepatch..188 when he won nationals 88,,then he grew 94/95 he was 230/240ish..