Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: SquatsRule on May 02, 2014, 03:20:08 AM
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I remember reading Steve Reeves had a 52 inch chest and I was always a little skeptical. Then I saw this photo. It says 52 inch shoulders which I can believe. So, what was correct getbig? Did Reeves have a 52 inch chest?
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Doubting the arms number.
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I'm sure Vince Basile measured him in 1908 Mr Oldympia
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I'm sure Vince Basile measured him in 1908 Mr Oldympia
Wes watched Steve Reeves grow up from a young whippersnapper.
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I'm sure Vince Basile measured him in 1908 Mr Oldympia
You're right. I'll await Basile's measurement info.
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Not too certain but I believe his measurements were as follows:
Chest 52" (Expanded) 50" (Relaxed)
Thighs 26"
Arms 18.5"
Neck 18.5"
Calves 18.5"
Waist 27"
Height 6' 1"
Weight 215
Regardless, outside of Arnold on drugs it doesn't really get any better. Reg Park is another great one that did it on his own. Reeves influenced Draper and Zane and to a lesser extent Arnold, whose main inspiration came from Park. Bill Pearl was also a great admirer of Steve.
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Not too certain but I believe his measurements were as follows:
Chest 52" (Expanded) 50" (Relaxed)
Thighs 26"
Arms 18.5"
Neck 18.5"
Calves 18.5"
Waist 27"
Height 6' 1"
Weight 215
Regardless, outside of Arnold on drugs it doesn't really get any better. Reg Park is another great one that did it on his own. Reeves influenced Draper and Zane and to a lesser extent Arnold, whose main inspiration came from Park. Bill Pearl was also a great admirer of Steve.
Those were the measurements I saw. His chest doesn't look that big to me and the 27 inch waist I think is questionable too.
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Those were the measurements I saw. His chest doesn't look that big to me and the 27 inch waist I think is questionable too.
I have known a couple of men that trained along side him a few times and they said he was a big guy, with great aesthetics. Women especially, loved the man.
Wish I looked half that good! ;D
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not a snowball chance in hell those arms are 18,5"
consider the following, this is a 19" arm and I know for a fact this is a slack measurement, it's obvious, AND those measuring devices are crap which leave gaps in between the arm and the tape
so this is more in between 18,5" and 19" in reality
and this homo probably pumped up as well
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I have known a couple of men that trained along side him a few times and they said he was a big guy, with great aesthetics. Women especially, loved the man.
Wish I looked half that good! ;D
No doubt he looked great. I also think his ratios for the perfect physique were pretty close. Biceps should be so many percent larger than the wrist etc. I can't remember the exact ratios.
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Not too certain but I believe his measurements were as follows:
Chest 52" (Expanded) 50" (Relaxed)
Thighs 26"
Arms 18.5"
Neck 18.5"
Calves 18.5"
Waist 27"
Height 6' 1"
Weight 215
Regardless, outside of Arnold on drugs it doesn't really get any better. Reg Park is another great one that did it on his own. Reeves influenced Draper and Zane and to a lesser extent Arnold, whose main inspiration came from Park. Bill Pearl was also a great admirer of Steve.
close height 6 ft 1 weight 220 lbs chest 52, waist 29 thighs 29 arms, neck and calves all 18. but does it really matter when you look like this.
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taller guys have bigger frames, so bigger measurements that actually look smaller than a 5'10" guy
also, who gives a shit
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I just showed my wife the pics in this thread.
Her words: "now that's a good looking man. Who cares about the muscles, he's got a nice face."
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I just showed my wife the pics in this thread.
Her words: "now that's a good looking man. Who cares about the muscles, he's got a nice face."
it's the full head of hair that makes an average face look nice
trust me i'm a hair analyst
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it's the full head of hair that makes an average face look nice
trust me i'm a hair analyst
When it came to "looks", Steve Reeves was anything but "average". There are men who look better when bald, most notably Yul Brynner.
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Those were the measurements I saw. His chest doesn't look that big to me and the 27 inch waist I think is questionable too.
This. The fuck his waist is 27 or 29 inches. Too wide. And that chest 52"? Fucking lol. Same as Arnold had a 58" chest. I'd believe Coleman's was 58" or 60" whatever he claimed, he looked inhuman, Reeves was a marketing tool, plain and simple.
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When it came to "looks", Steve Reeves was anything but "average". There are men who look better when bald, most notably Yul Brynner.
he doesnt look like a victoria secret model to me
just some rich kid with good hair
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This. The fuck his waist is 27 or 29 inches. Too wide. And that chest 52"? Fucking lol. Same as Arnold had a 58" chest. I'd believe Coleman's was 58" or 60" whatever he claimed, he looked inhuman, Reeves was a marketing tool, plain and simple.
To quote a friend, Coleman has a "wasteline". Has to measure in the mid-forties. He's so overweight it's a challenge for him to just breathe. What a carapace of a gut. Reeves is an aesthetic god with looks that make women swoon. Arnold is The Man when it comes to the druggies, but Steve and Reg Park are legendary for not just who they were, but what they represented. Real bodybuilding.
Coleman's a legend in Schmoetopia.
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To quote a friend, Coleman has a "wasteline". Has to measure in the mid-forties. He's so overweight it's a challenge for him to just breathe. What a carapace of a gut. Reeves is an aesthetic god with looks that make women swoon. Arnold is The Man when it comes to the druggies, but Steve and Reg Park are legendary for not just who they were, but what they represented. Real bodybuilding.
Coleman's a legend in Schmoetopia.
Coleman destroys your "aesthetic god", most women would laugh at the claim that reeves actually lifts weights
THIS is a bodybuilder bitches
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Doubting the arms number.
lol why. He was 6'+
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Coleman destroys your "aesthetic god", most women would laugh at the claim that reeves actually lifts weights
THIS is a bodybuilder bitches
Coleman is fast losing his physique and all because he built it with drugs. I've known plenty of women that find Steve Reeves handsome and not a single one has ever said anything remotely as childish as questioning whether or not he lifted weights. His face is very handsome. Contrast that with Ronnie's mug. Coleman's face looks like something a fly might throw up on. His body is on the way to matching it. Sad, really. Coleman's voice is painful to listen to. Reeves real voice was masculine and deep and void of the painful inflections of retardation that so permeate Ronnie's vocalizations.
In other words, Reeves looked (like Nubret, Zane and Paris to name just three) and sounded like a god. Coleman (like Cutler, Yates and Nasser to name but three) looks like he's from another planet. The planet of the shaved apes.
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Coleman is fast losing his physique and all because he built it with drugs. I've known plenty of women that find Steve Reeves handsome and not a single one has ever said anything remotely as childish as questioning whether or not he lifted weights. His face is very handsome. Contrast that with Ronnie's mug. Coleman's face looks like something a fly might throw up on. His body is on the way to matching it. Sad, really. Coleman's voice is painful to listen to. Reeves real voice was masculine and deep and void of the painful inflections of retardation that so permeate Ronnie's vocalizations.
In other words, Reeves looked (like Nubret, Zane and Paris to name just three) and sounded like a god. Coleman (like Cutler, Yates and Nasser to name but three) looks like he's from another planet. The planet of the shaved apes.
2 different "sports." Reeves and Coleman hardly have anything in common.
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Coleman destroys your "aesthetic god", most women would laugh at the claim that reeves actually lifts weights
THIS is a bodybuilder bitches
What the hell are you talking about, Reeves made women cream themselves just by looking at them.
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2 different "sports." Reeves and Coleman hardly have anything in common.
Outside of both being bodybuilders, I would agree. And like bodybuilding, how they are viewed by the population both in general and in specific, is highly subjective.
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Coleman is fast losing his physique and all because he built it with drugs. I've known plenty of women that find Steve Reeves handsome and not a single one has ever said anything remotely as childish as questioning whether or not he lifted weights. His face is very handsome. Contrast that with Ronnie's mug. Coleman's face looks like something a fly might throw up on. His body is on the way to matching it. Sad, really. Coleman's voice is painful to listen to. Reeves real voice was masculine and deep and void of the painful inflections of retardation that so permeate Ronnie's vocalizations.
In other words, Reeves looked (like Nubret, Zane and Paris to name just three) and sounded like a god. Coleman (like Cutler, Yates and Nasser to name but three) looks like he's from another planet. The planet of the shaved apes.
Reeves was the drug experiment of his day. If gh/insulin/igf has been known then he'd ave died with a gut. Both were used to sell shit. Supps, a lifestyle, whatever.
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Reeves was the drug experiment of his day. If gh/insulin/igf has been known then he'd ave died with a gut. Both were used to sell shit. Supps, a lifestyle, whatever.
There is zero evidence to support your supposition, ergo it is just that.
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Coleman is who every man wants to be and who every woman wants to be with.
Only twinks in denial would question this universal truth.
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Coleman is who every man wants to be and who every woman wants to be with.
Only twinks in denial would question this universal truth.
Devil's advocate or town clown? I often wonder about this with you. Regardless, take care of yourself.
Be well.
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I've always liked the silver era physiques better plus the posing trunks weren't fruity as hell. It was about health, actually being physically in shape, working normal jobs, and guys like Reeves went off and fought in the war.
(http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/6/7/677576.1120227280208.billpearl14.jpg)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_l69g75UbeD1qazanuo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI6WLSGT7Y3ET7ADQ&Expires=1399164230&Signature=7WLNyAaLJ5kgrc43HxwMUTZuIcQ%3D#_=_)
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Devil's advocate or town clown? I often wonder about this with you. Regardless, take care of yourself.
Be well.
I am 100 percent serious
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I'd say those numbers are probably close except the chest and stomach... Not even close to 52 inches.And most likely around 29 to 30 waist(which is still tiny for a guy 6'1 over 200 pounds)...All the other numbers I would say probably within 1/2 inch or so...
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lol why. He was 6'+
I have no problem believing 18.5 arms.
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Coleman is who every man wants to be and who every woman wants to be with.
Only twinks in denial would question this universal truth.
U are a disgrace to the white race , now go sit in the corner with goodrum he's banned from the black race :D ;D
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Coleman destroys your "aesthetic god", most women would laugh at the claim that reeves actually lifts weights
THIS is a bodybuilder bitches
That shit aint right man. That's too much. Coleman carries it well but he looked his best at 249-252. That's much too extreme. 93 Flex is better than that version of Coleman. I now feel that is borderline Grotesque.
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That shit aint right man. That's too much. Coleman carries it well but he looked his best at 249-252. That's much too extreme. 93 Flex is better than that version of Coleman. I now feel that is borderline Grotesque.
The 'best' Ronnie that we'll never see again in anyone else is 1998 Ronnie. Shame he made a pact with Satan (insulin/gh) in order to outfreak the freaks and destroy his post-bodybuilding physique in the process.
Just incredible all around, waist included.
(http://www.bodybuildbid.com/articles/mrolympia/imgs/coleman/colem3.jpg)
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Compare that to 2006 Ronnie and you'll understand why it wasn't worth it.
(http://goldenmuscles.com/wp-content/gallery/ronnie-coleman/2006-mr-olympia-finals-79-ronnie-coleman-jay-cutler_20090831_1565583599.jpg)
(http://goldenmuscles.com/wp-content/gallery/ronnie-coleman/2006-mr-olympia-finals-80-ronnie-coleman-jay-cutler_20090831_1677029916.jpg)
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fixed
Coleman destroys your "aesthetic god", most women would laugh at the claim that reeves actually lifts weights
THIS is a bodybuilder drug repository bitches
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Reeves had statuesque genetics, a god among men.
Then Arnold showed up.
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Yep, he paid the piper. And yes 98 Coleman is the best (minus the gyno). Then 01 Arnold Classic Coleman. All around 245-252. I always wonder why guys feel they need to continue to pack on muscle after they've become Mr. O. Yates and Coleman being the biggest offenders. Even McGough when he was with FLEX Mag said the 03 Coleman was obviously bigger but he didn't believe it was better. Looking back I don't see how anyone could make a valid argument against that statement.
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Yep, he paid the piper. And yes 98 Coleman is the best (minus the gyno). Then 01 Arnold Classic Coleman. All around 245-252. I always wonder why guys feel they need to continue to pack on muscle after they've become Mr. O. Yates and Coleman being the biggest offenders. Even McGough when he was with FLEX Mag said the 03 Coleman was obviously bigger but he didn't believe it was better. Looking back I don't see how anyone could make a valid argument against that statement.
My theory is Yates ushered in the mass monster era, but didn't bring it to its zenith. Ronnie did that. He made his selling point the fact that he could hold, proportionally, more muscle on his frame than anyone else. After that, he couldn't turn the clock back and lower the dosages to downsize to his best weight for his height. It developed its own dynamic after 2000 and he was basically a prisoner to his own invented selling point.
Munzer's thing was being ripped to make up for modest size (compared to the others).
Ruhl's was his massive upper body.
These guys all find an angle to try to set themselves apart from the rest, and destroy their bodies in the process. That's the problem with bodybuilding. It's not about letting the best man win. It's about finding something unusual and exaggerating it out of all proportion so you can look different in the judges' eyes to the other 20 thong-wearing freaks on stage.
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My theory is Yates ushered in the mass monster era, but didn't bring it to its zenith. Ronnie did that. He made his selling point the fact that he could hold, proportionally, more muscle on his frame than anyone else. After that, he couldn't turn the clock back and lower the dosages to downsize to his best weight for his height. It developed its own dynamic after 2000 and he was basically a prisoner to his own invented selling point.
Munzer's thing was being ripped to make up for modest size (compared to the others).
Ruhl's was his massive upper body.
These guys all find an angle to try to set themselves apart from the rest, and destroy their bodies in the process. That's the problem with bodybuilding. It's not about letting the best man win. It's about finding something unusual and exaggerating it out of all proportion so you can look different in the judges' eyes to the other 20 thong-wearing freaks on stage.
Yes the blown out shoulders filled with God knows what look stupid. You see very few shoulder striations these days.
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Yep, he paid the piper. And yes 98 Coleman is the best (minus the gyno). Then 01 Arnold Classic Coleman.
Better than '93 Flex, or Haney in '91?
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Better than '93 Flex, or Haney in '91?
Oh fuck yeah dude.
Flex's body now looks suspect in even his earlier pictures because of how much he abused site enhancement oil. I question if he ever just showed up hard on just AAS and GH like Ronnie did the first few Olympias...
Haney wasn't a freak. He was the last classical bodybuilder imo. No massive legs or ridiculous upper body proportions.
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180907.msg2534205#msg2534205 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180907.msg2534205#msg2534205)
Here's a comparison of Reeve's, Arnold and Sandow's measurements at top form. It is pretty conceivable that Reeve's chest and arms were that big if you compare to Sandow and Arnold and Coleman
Coleman's measurement (per Wikipedia):
Height: 180 cm (5 foot 11 inches)
Weight: 135 kg (296 lbs) (contest) | 147.5 kg (325 lbs) (off-season)
Arms: 61 cm (24")[4]
Chest: 147 cm (58")[5]
Thighs: 86 cm (34")
Arnold's Top Form Measurements
Height: 6 2
Weight: 235 lbs.
Chest: 57
Waist: 34
Biceps: 22
Thighs: 28.5
Calves: 20
Steve Reeves
His top form measurements were:
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 215lb
Neck: 18 1/4
Shoulder breadth: 23 ½
Chest: 52
Waist: 29
Biceps: 18 Ό
Forearms: 14 Ύ
Wrists: 7 Ό
Hips: 38
Thigh: 26
Calves: 18 Ό
Ankles: 9 Ό
SANDOW'S MEASUREMENTS
At age 35 (1902)
Height: 5'9 1/4"
Weight: 202 lbs.
Neck: 18"
Chest: 48"
Waist: 30"
Biceps: 18 1/2"
Forearm: 16 1/2"
Wrists: 7 1/2"
Hips: 42"
Thigh: 26"
Knee: 14"
Calves: 18"
Ankle: 8 1/2"
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Better than '93 Flex, or Haney in '91?
It depends on who's judging. That's an extremely difficult decision IMO. I'd have to go 98 Coleman, 91 Haney, 93 Flex. You just can't deny the conditioning, musculature of Coleman. It's too overwhelming. Haney has the same kind of rugged muscle just on an athletic physique and toned down. Haney's shape is superior to Colemans. Haney has calves and abs. His only knock would be his arms could be an inch or two bigger. Flex's shape is perfection. It gets no better. Flex's 93 conditioning is still out done by 91 Haney and 98 Coleman.
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180907.msg2534205#msg2534205 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180907.msg2534205#msg2534205)
Here's a comparison of Reeve's, Arnold and Sandow's measurements at top form. It is pretty conceivable that Reeve's chest and arms were that big if you compare to Sandow and Arnold and Coleman
Coleman's measurement (per Wikipedia):
Height: 180 cm (5 foot 11 inches)
Weight: 135 kg (296 lbs) (contest) | 147.5 kg (325 lbs) (off-season)
Arms: 61 cm (24")[4]
Chest: 147 cm (58")[5]
Thighs: 86 cm (34")
Arnold's Top Form Measurements
Height: 6 2
Weight: 235 lbs.
Chest: 57
Waist: 34
Biceps: 22
Thighs: 28.5
Calves: 20
Steve Reeves
His top form measurements were:
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 215lb
Neck: 18 1/4
Shoulder breadth: 23 ½
Chest: 52
Waist: 29
Biceps: 18 Ό
Forearms: 14 Ύ
Wrists: 7 Ό
Hips: 38
Thigh: 26
Calves: 18 Ό
Ankles: 9 Ό
SANDOW'S MEASUREMENTS
At age 35 (1902)
Height: 5'9 1/4"
Weight: 202 lbs.
Neck: 18"
Chest: 48"
Waist: 30"
Biceps: 18 1/2"
Forearm: 16 1/2"
Wrists: 7 1/2"
Hips: 42"
Thigh: 26"
Knee: 14"
Calves: 18"
Ankle: 8 1/2"
Note that no mention is made of the SIZE of Coleman's fat gut.
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Haney wasn't a freak. He was the last classical bodybuilder imo. No massive legs or ridiculous upper body proportions.
Isn't that a good thing? At some point, doesn't freaky just look wrong?
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Isn't that a good thing? At some point, doesn't freaky just look wrong?
Yup.
(http://forums.steroid.com/attachments/pictures-pro-bodybuilders/122750d1336495568-lee-haney-1991-mr-olympia-dvd-pics-vlcsnap-00030.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=492303.0;attach=533871)
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It depends on who's judging. That's an extremely difficult decision IMO. I'd have to go 98 Coleman, 91 Haney, 93 Flex. You just can't deny the conditioning, musculature of Coleman. It's too overwhelming. Haney has the same kind of rugged muscle just on an athletic physique and toned down. Haney's shape is superior to Colemans. Haney has calves and abs. His only knock would be his arms could be an inch or two bigger. Flex's shape is perfection. It gets no better. Flex's 93 conditioning is still out done by 91 Haney and 98 Coleman.
I was just curious about your personal opinion, not judging-wise. Reeves, Arnold, Haney, Flex, those guys were put together perfectly, despite their measurements or freakishness. Thought for sure you'd prefer Haney.
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Haney is my favorite of all time. But 98 Coleman is too much. I'd rather look like Haney than Coleman.
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Steve Reeves is a twink.
Wouldn't place top 20 in the Olympia.
Wouldn't even earn a pro card today.
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Steve Reeves is a twink.
Wouldn't place top 20 in the Olympia.
Wouldn't even earn a pro card today.
He would get a pro card in america, I think most americans have a pro card these days, even people who dont compete.
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lol at sandow's arms being 18 inches
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He would get a pro card in america, I think most americans have a pro card these days, even people who dont compete.
lmao
one of your funniest posts ever
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He would get a pro card in america, I think most americans have a pro card these days, even people who dont compete.
How many pros come out of england a year?
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There is zero evidence to support your supposition, ergo it is just that.
According to a poster on this board, he was told directly by Robert Kennedy (who knew Reeves) that Reeves used steroids.
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According to a poster on this board, he was told directly by Robert Kennedy (who knew Reeves) that Reeves used steroids.
Heresay.
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According to a poster on this board, he was told directly by Robert Kennedy (who knew Reeves) that Reeves used steroids.
I find it hard to believe that he was taking stuff close to 15 years before our own Olympic weightlifting team.
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180907.msg2534205#msg2534205 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=180907.msg2534205#msg2534205)
Here's a comparison of Reeve's, Arnold and Sandow's measurements at top form. It is pretty conceivable that Reeve's chest and arms were that big if you compare to Sandow and Arnold and Coleman
Coleman's measurement (per Wikipedia):
Height: 180 cm (5 foot 11 inches)
Weight: 135 kg (296 lbs) (contest) | 147.5 kg (325 lbs) (off-season)
Arms: 61 cm (24")[4]
Chest: 147 cm (58")[5]
Thighs: 86 cm (34")
Arnold's Top Form Measurements
Height: 6 2
Weight: 235 lbs.
Chest: 57
Waist: 34
Biceps: 22
Thighs: 28.5
Calves: 20
Steve Reeves
His top form measurements were:
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 215lb
Neck: 18 1/4
Shoulder breadth: 23 ½
Chest: 52
Waist: 29
Biceps: 18 Ό
Forearms: 14 Ύ
Wrists: 7 Ό
Hips: 38
Thigh: 26
Calves: 18 Ό
Ankles: 9 Ό
SANDOW'S MEASUREMENTS
At age 35 (1902)
Height: 5'9 1/4"
Weight: 202 lbs.
Neck: 18"
Chest: 48"
Waist: 30"
Biceps: 18 1/2"
Forearm: 16 1/2"
Wrists: 7 1/2"
Hips: 42"
Thigh: 26"
Knee: 14"
Calves: 18"
Ankle: 8 1/2"
So now I know bodybuilders have been lying about their arm measurements for over 100 years. Sandow started it all. 18.5 inch arms hahahaha.
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Sandow displaying his 48 inch chest and 18.5 inch arms. Hahahaha.
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Take the piss but These guys were very strong guys and very acrobatic. Infact strength was also associated with gymnastic feats. the Guys of today would not match this. There was a Show where Reeves lost to grimmek because of acrobatics. can΄t remember when but Steve Reeves mentions it in his Book.
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Take the piss but These guys were very strong guys and very acrobatic. Infact strength was also associated with gymnastic feats. the Guys of today would not match this. There was a Show where Reeves lost to grimmek because of acrobatics. can΄t remember when but Steve Reeves mentions it in his Book.
The 1948 Mr. Universe.
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The 1948 Mr. Universe.
Thanks .. he mentions it in a book i have.
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Heresay.
Maybe so but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Experimenting with "new" things has always been part of BB.
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if hes 218 and 6'1 those measurements are highly believeable. the arms might be slightly exaggerated. and 18.5 lean arm is pretty fucking big.
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How many pros come out of england a year?
one, overall British champ, and they get to apply for it, its not automatically given.
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Take the piss but These guys were very strong guys and very acrobatic. Infact strength was also associated with gymnastic feats. the Guys of today would not match this. There was a Show where Reeves lost to grimmek because of acrobatics. can΄t remember when but Steve Reeves mentions it in his Book.
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yes very good but Grimmek and Reeves were much fitter believe me...handstands were normal and other balancing acts of strength and stamina.
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yes very good but Grimmek and Reeves were much fitter believe me...handstands were normal and other balancing acts of strength and stamina.
Kai matched that. 8)
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Jacl Lalanne... small man but heart like a Lion...
http://www.jacklalanne.com/jacks-adventures/feats-and-honors.php
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;)
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Jacl Lalanne... small man but heart like a Lion...
Donny.... old man but cock like a child.
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Donny.... old man but cock like a child.
Does your Mother know you are on here?
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Kai matched that. 8)
Andyou can bet that neither Grimek nor Reeves ever had relations with a grapefruit, so Kai's got that goin' for him.
Kai's a heart attack on deck. Or dick.
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Andyou can bet that neither Grimek nor Reeves ever had relations with a grapefruit, so Kai's got that goin' for him.
Kai's a heart attack on deck. Or dick.
;D
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Another bullshitter is Leroy Colbert. First claimed to have 20" arms, then the claim changed over the years to 21" arms. Were probably closer to 18.5 or 19" tops.
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I have no problem believing 18.5 arms.
Yep, and anything less would have looked ultra small on his frame.
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Yep, and anything less would have looked ultra small on his frame.
My short ass has 17 inch arms, I know he could have 18.
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You say that as though it indicates a failure ???
No I mean it that he has better genetics than me. I am very happy at 47 yrs old with natural 17 inch arms lean.
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Steve Reeves is a twink.
Wouldn't place top 20 in the Olympia.
Wouldn't even earn a pro card today.
You say that as though it indicates a failure ???
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You say that as though it indicates a failure ???
He lacks that champion HGH gut.
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He lacks that champion HGH gut.
If thats what it takes to be a champion...
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Reeves calves were too big. Calves should measure 1/3 of your thigh measurement.
Champions should also suffer backne, facial edema, and tren coughs. :D
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I just showed my wife the pics in this thread.
Her words: "now that's a good looking man. Who cares about the muscles, he's got a nice face."
Yep. Face alone.
Physique and proportions are very...I'd say elegant. He looks fucking elegant.
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Reeves calves were too big. Calves should measure 1/3 of your thigh measurement.
Champions should also suffer backne, facial edema, and tren coughs. :D
Hahaha. He did have good calves and arms. I only doubted the chest and waist measurements.
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Regardless of his actual measurements, Reeves was pretty much genetically perfect, perfect proportions for all parts, ideal height, wide clavicles +small waist, low lat inserts, calves, etc..if i could trade bodies with anyone in history it would be him
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Yep. Face alone.
Physique and proportions are very...I'd say elegant. He looks fucking elegant.
Almost every woman I have known that has seen a photograph of Reeves says the same thing.
"Perfect".
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Found this pic, looks like 140 on the inclines. Which is pretty good.
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Steve Reeves was definitely strong, but it looks like those are 7.5# plates.
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Steve Reeves was definitely strong, but it looks like those are 7.5# plates.
Yeah, I can read the outside right plate, they're 7 1/2lbs.
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After the testosterone injections circa 1949 his strength went up considerably. The funny thing was, it was his doctor who prescribed the injections as a cure for homosexuality. :P
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Yeah, I can read the outside right plate, they're 7 1/2lbs.
I'm having a hard time counting the number of plates, but it looks like about 110 lbs. No big deal, especially on test.
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I believe he once said, "As strong as I need to be."
To many, myself included, Steve Reeves is the finest example of what bodybuilding means. Health and strength.
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LOL cure for being a homo ;D
I found all kinds of funny shit referring to testosterone experimentation during the 1940's.
The 1940s also saw the use of testosterone therapy as an experimental cure for homosexuality. The medical view of homosexuality as a type of endocrine deficiency made the use of testosterone propionate to reverse homosexual orientation virtually predictable. As one physician in 1940 put it: If homosexuality is merely the result of an endocrine disturbance, the prospect for its cure must be excellent today.
Prescription for women?
Testosterone drugs were also the favored pharmacological technique of the 1940s for treating sexual frigidity in women. Testosterone propionate ointment could be applied to the vulva or clitoris to increase genital sensitivity. Testosterone could be injected or pellets implanted under the skin to intensify libido. By 1943 testosterone propionate was reported to be in widespread use to treat women with sexual and other endocrine disorders
Fucks sake, granny used to rub it on her twat.
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I'm having a hard time counting the number of plates, but it looks like about 110 lbs. No big deal, especially on test.
Except Steve Reeves was never on test. And, neither you, nor anyone else, who was also jealous and envious of Steve Reeves, has presented the slightest proof that he did drugs.
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Except Steve Reeves was never on test. And, neither you, nor anyone else, who was also jealous and envious of Steve Reeves, has presented the slightest proof that he did drugs.
whats your proof that he was natural all the way through? because he said so?
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whats your proof that he was natural all the way through? because he said so?
That, and because proof to the contrary doesn't exist at all!
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whats your proof that he was natural all the way through? because he said so?
What are you, the first in your family to be whelped without a tail? Without your little helper's you are more LittleRo than anything else. You cannot mar the name of Reeves with such a canard and yet to salve your pathetic manlet ego you ejaculate the jism of your self hatred of Reeves legacy all over this thread and elsewhere.
Dammit! Too many words you cannot comprehend. Let's make this simple, shall we.
Reeves was his own man. His physique his own. His life, one of honor and hard work.
You take drugs to build your body. Without it (and we have seen the proof posted by yourself) you are teensie weensie or at best, normal. Get off the drugs, kid. Then get off your high horse.
Or not.
Be well.
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Fortress who posts on here once said that he was told by Bob Kennedy (who knew Reeves personally) that Reeves used steroids. Reeves apparently admitted to Kennedy that he did.
Seems believable. Maybe Fortress can chime in?
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Fortress who posts on here once said that he was told by Bob Kennedy (who knew Reeves personally) that Reeves used steroids. Reeves apparently admitted to Kennedy that he did.
Seems believable. Maybe Fortress can chime in?
Bob Kennedy was a kid when Reeves retired from bodybuilding. If he said that, then I don't believe him, because he must have said it after Reeves died, same as everyone else who claimed Reeves used drugs to build his muscles. If Reeves were alive, then he would have sued for slander and defamation of character.
When Reeves was training, he trained with a lot of old timers. Where is any testimony from any of them, guys who knew him in his prime, who say he used drugs?
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What are you, the first in your family to be whelped without a tail? Without your little helper's you are more LittleRo than anything else. You cannot mar the name of Reeves with such a canard and yet to salve your pathetic manlet ego you ejaculate the jism of your self hatred of Reeves legacy all over this thread and elsewhere.
Dammit! Too many words you cannot comprehend. Let's make this simple, shall we.
Reeves was his own man. His physique his own. His life, one of honor and hard work.
You take drugs to build your body. Without it (and we have seen the proof posted by yourself) you are teensie weensie or at best, normal. Get off the drugs, kid. Then get off your high horse.
Or not.
Be well.
lol talk about high horses, love the be well part, very caring ::) Never mind I was a natural teen world champion and the pictures of me in my twenties I was not even weight lifting or eating a high protein diet.
go have another wank over Steve kid.
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Fortress who posts on here once said that he was told by Bob Kennedy (who knew Reeves personally) that Reeves used steroids. Reeves apparently admitted to Kennedy that he did.
Seems believable. Maybe Fortress can chime in?
Reeves always denied taking and PEDs he's been very consistent on the subject when asked , and why would he lie? It's not like they would have been banned or illegal. The whole concept is nonsense. Honestly I've yet to find anyone offer up anything substantial in the way of proving athletes were using PEDs before Ziegler. And he only learned from the Russians in the early 50s years AFTER Reeves retired and when he tried to replicate what the Russians were doing he didn't have any success and gave up on testosterone injections. And people are trying to say Reeves predates him with success? It defies logic
Show me something concrete that bodybuilders were using test and or PEDs in the 1940s and not vague references I'm talking something of substance. There is NO history of athletes taking test or PEDs until Ziegler in the mid 1950s the earliest and it was ONLY on weight lifters and not bodybuilders , from all the research I've seen steroids didn't make their way out to the west coast bodybuilding scene until around 1960 and that's a full decade after Reeves retired. I'll be more than willing to change my mind on something of substance.
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Reeves always denied taking and PEDs he's been very consistent on the subject when asked , and why would he lie? It's not like they would have been banned or illegal. The whole concept is nonsense. Honestly I've yet to find anyone offer up anything substantial in the way of proving athletes were using PEDs before Ziegler. And he only learned from the Russians in the early 50s years AFTER Reeves retired and when he tried to replicate what the Russians were doing he didn't have any success and gave up on testosterone injections. And people are trying to say Reeves predates him with success? It defies logic
Show me something concrete that bodybuilders were using test and or PEDs in the 1940s and not vague references I'm talking something of substance. There is NO history of athletes taking test or PEDs until Ziegler in the mid 1950s the earliest and it was ONLY on weight lifters and not bodybuilders , from all the research I've seen steroids didn't make their way out to the west coast bodybuilding scene until around 1960 and that's a full decade after Reeves retired. I'll be more than willing to change my mind on something of substance.
The genetically inferior bottom feeders who accuse Reeves of drug use don't care about facts or logic..excellent post
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lol talk about high horses, love the be well part, very caring ::) Never mind I was a natural teen world champion and the pictures of me in my twenties I was not even weight lifting or eating a high protein diet.
go have another wank over Steve kid.
Have it your way, bottle boy. Your personal Road to Dialysis is coming because of your chosen lifestyle. Jaundice might make it your own Yellow Brick Road too. Or will you just tell the world you're turning Japaneser? Think of something congenital, quick!
Pathetic imitation of life is what you have. To top it off, you're not stupid, just lazy and ignorant. Typical bodybuilder.
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Bob Kennedy was a kid when Reeves retired from bodybuilding. If he said that, then I don't believe him, because he must have said it after Reeves died, same as everyone else who claimed Reeves used drugs to build his muscles. If Reeves were alive, then he would have sued for slander and defamation of character.
When Reeves was training, he trained with a lot of old timers. Where is any testimony from any of them, guys who knew him in his prime, who say he used drugs?
I am one of those old timers. Trained with Steve for about a year at the Bert Goodrich Gym. Also dined and threw back a few beers with him. (I was under age but loved my beer). No one in the 50s even heard of Test outside of research labs until about '57 when Ciba Labs Dbol showed up. Steve's last comp was 7 years earlier.
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Steve had a solid 575 bench, 775 dead and 805 squat.
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you obviously have the same scathing attitude to anyone who takes gear. Tell me about your saintly pure life of powerful manliness that I may emulate it ::)
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Steve had a solid 575 bench, 775 dead and 805 squat.
Any idea on how far he hit a softball?
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Found this pic, looks like 140 on the inclines. Which is pretty good.
those were 7 and a halves..... his best lift was a 225 clean and press done from a kneeling position... his teeth and neck were strong too, toying with 200 lber george eiferman.
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you obviously have the same scathing attitude to anyone who takes gear. Tell me about your saintly pure life of powerful manliness that I may emulate it ::)
I think all PEDS should be legal in the United States , they are obviously less dangerous than many over the counter drugs as well as prescribed drugs. I think all sports organizations should allow athletes to use responsibly because there is no such thing as an ' level playing field ' to begin with that's just nature and genetics.
But there was a time when the sport wasn't reliant on drugs and Steve Reeves was in that time. No moral high horse with drugs but people want everyone to be on and it wasn't always the case.
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:o he pinch gripped deadlifted a substantial weight was capable of one arm chins.
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I really don't want him to have used, I think its a possibility. Testosterone was first made in 1931 in Germany.
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you obviously have the same scathing attitude to anyone who takes gear. Tell me about your saintly pure life of powerful manliness that I may emulate it ::)
The truth must hurt you so. Your feeble attempt at sarcastically dispatching the truth of my words will not suffice except amongst those of a mindset similar to your own, i.e., druggies desperately rationalizing their pathetic usage.
Not my problem. As for teaching you how to live, puhleeeeze. That's what your parents were for. Run along before I taunt you again.
(https://bubba11thg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/veggie-tales-french-peas.png)
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List of Steroid type drugs available to 1940's bodybuilders potentially -
Androsterone - (Schering - 1934)
Androfort (Richter - 1936)
Testosterone Propionate - Sterandryl (Roussel - 1936)
Testoviron (British Schering - 1936)
Virormone (Paines & Byrne - 1936)
Perandren (Ciba - 1937)
Neo-Hombreol (Organon - 1937)
Pantestin (Richter - ?? *at least 1941)
Erugon-S (Bayer - ?? *at least 1941)
Methyltestosterone - Metandren (Ciba - 1940)
Perandren Linguets (Ciba - 1940)
Glosso-Sterandryl (Roussel - 1941)
Neo-Hombreol-M (Organon - 1941)
Oreton M (British Schering - 1942)
Oraviron (British Schering - 1942)
Viromone- Oral (Paines & Byrne - 1942)
Testosterone Cypionate
Depo-Testosterone (Upjohn - 1951)
Methyl Testosterone being sold through an ad in Popular Science in 1948 -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=methyltestosterone+hudson&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1niVU5r7CcqdyASxo4CAAQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=methyltestosterone%20hudson&f=false
FDA stops it 1950 or so -
http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt .
Just offering it up, it's up to you to decide what you believe, personally post WWII is my start point where I start to listen, by then steroids were in use helping the war wounded, had magazine press, etc....
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and once pulled down an entire temple ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::) ::)
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List of Steroid type drugs available to 1940's bodybuilders potentially -
Androsterone - (Schering - 1934)
Androfort (Richter - 1936)
Testosterone Propionate - Sterandryl (Roussel - 1936)
Testoviron (British Schering - 1936)
Virormone (Paines & Byrne - 1936)
Perandren (Ciba - 1937)
Neo-Hombreol (Organon - 1937)
Pantestin (Richter - ?? *at least 1941)
Erugon-S (Bayer - ?? *at least 1941)
Methyltestosterone - Metandren (Ciba - 1940)
Perandren Linguets (Ciba - 1940)
Glosso-Sterandryl (Roussel - 1941)
Neo-Hombreol-M (Organon - 1941)
Oreton M (British Schering - 1942)
Oraviron (British Schering - 1942)
Viromone- Oral (Paines & Byrne - 1942)
Testosterone Cypionate
Depo-Testosterone (Upjohn - 1951)
Methyl Testosterone being sold through an ad in Popular Science in 1948 -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=methyltestosterone+hudson&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1niVU5r7CcqdyASxo4CAAQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=methyltestosterone%20hudson&f=false
FDA stops it 1950 or so -
http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt .
Just offering it up, it's up to you to decide what you believe, personally post WWII is my start point where I start to listen, by then steroids were in use helping the war wounded, had magazine press, etc....
Has absolutely nothing to do with athletes using PEDs . there is NO history until Ziegler. These references prove nothing. Show me a history of athletes using PEDs before Ziegler in America.
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The truth must hurt you so. Your feeble attempt at sarcastically dispatching the truth of my words will not suffice except amongst those of a mindset similar to your own, i.e., druggies desperately rationalizing their pathetic usage.
Not my problem. As for teaching you how to live, puhleeeeze. That's what your parents were for. Run along before I taunt you again.
(https://bubba11thg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/veggie-tales-french-peas.png)
funny you think your the slightest bit intimidating with your holy diarrhoea
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all that being said he trained for the mr universe in york pa..... and when he first arrived he looked average in jcg words , but made phenomenal gains in hardly any time ...??????? and won the mr universe... when he made his movies he would take it easy for months at a time than train 4-6 weeks to get in shape for his gladiator epics??????? i like to think he was natural , but who can really say.....??????
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It simply proves that there were steroids freely available before Zeigler and Dianabol, what one chooses to believe is up to them.
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List of Steroid type drugs available to 1940's bodybuilders potentially -
Androsterone - (Schering - 1934)
Androfort (Richter - 1936)
Testosterone Propionate - Sterandryl (Roussel - 1936)
Testoviron (British Schering - 1936)
Virormone (Paines & Byrne - 1936)
Perandren (Ciba - 1937)
Neo-Hombreol (Organon - 1937)
Pantestin (Richter - ?? *at least 1941)
Erugon-S (Bayer - ?? *at least 1941)
Methyltestosterone - Metandren (Ciba - 1940)
Perandren Linguets (Ciba - 1940)
Glosso-Sterandryl (Roussel - 1941)
Neo-Hombreol-M (Organon - 1941)
Oreton M (British Schering - 1942)
Oraviron (British Schering - 1942)
Viromone- Oral (Paines & Byrne - 1942)
Testosterone Cypionate
Depo-Testosterone (Upjohn - 1951)
Methyl Testosterone being sold through an ad in Popular Science in 1948 -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=methyltestosterone+hudson&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1niVU5r7CcqdyASxo4CAAQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=methyltestosterone%20hudson&f=false
FDA stops it 1950 or so -
http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt .
Just offering it up, it's up to you to decide what you believe, personally post WWII is my start point where I start to listen, by then steroids were in use helping the war wounded, had magazine press, etc....
All forms of testosterone. Not one anabolic steroid. Like I said on a previous post the Soviets in the late 50's started gaining ground on the American in Olympic lifting. It was a sudden change. They were the ones injecting large doses of testosterone and the result was an enlarged prostate. Dianabol was made to counteract that problem by making a testosterone pill that was more anabolic and less androgenic.
Reeves was in shape from lifting weights when he was a 15. There are pictures. During world war II he stationed over seas he repped out with 110lbs barbell set he had on his base. He was in fantastic shape every decade of his life until his health failed. So juice heads here trying to justify there own use think he was juicing at 15, during his time in the service and every decade until he became ill in his senior years?
It's complete rationalization. It's the old I look like crap with steroids so everyone else does too. No, there are guys that have a great physique without steroids.
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It simply proves that there were steroids freely available before Zeigler and Dianabol, what one chooses to believe is up to them.
No it doesn't. It doesn't prove anything. The creator of one of the first anabolics in history had NO success directly injecting testosterone into weight training athletes yet you somehow draw the conclusion that others were using and using successfully eons before? defies logic. I want something tangible not vague references I want a proven record of strength athletes using before Ziegler besides the Russians. It can't be done because if it could we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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all that being said he trained for the mr universe in york pa..... and when he first arrived he looked average in jcg words , but made phenomenal gains in hardly any time ...??????? and won the mr universe... when he made his movies he would take it easy for months at a time than train 4-6 weeks to get in shape for his gladiator epics??????? i like to think he was natural , but who can really say.....??????
He was actually smaller in all of his films , producers wanted him lighter because he dwarfed his fellow actors. I've seen reports where he was down to 190lbs or lighter from when he competed around 215lbs
And the guy had exceptional genetics and muscle memory , you don't think it was possible to snap back into shape? He wasn't exceptionally large for his time either , Park was 225 at the same height. If he was 6'1" and weighed 235-240lbs I would entertain the thought , but 215lbs on a man with many consider to this day the best genetics the sports ever seen? come on
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funny you think your the slightest bit intimidating with your holy diarrhoea
*SNICKER*
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All forms of testosterone. Not one anabolic steroid. Like I said on a previous post the Soviets in the late 50's started gaining ground on the American in Olympic lifting. It was a sudden change. They were the ones injecting large doses of testosterone and the result was an enlarged prostate. Dianabol was made to counteract that problem by making a testosterone pill that was more anabolic and less androgenic.
Reeves was in shape from lifting weights when he was a 15. There are pictures. During world war II he stationed over seas he repped out with 110lbs barbell set he had on his base. He was in fantastic shape every decade of his life until his health failed. So juice head here trying to justify there own use think he was juicing at 15, during his time in the service and every decade until he became ill in his senior years?
It's complete rationalization. It's the old I look like crap with steroids so everyone else does too. No, there are guys that have a great physique without steroids.
A rational well thought out post.
he was gifted from the beginning no drugs needed
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I love how every time Steve is mention there is an argument over his "natural" status.
Nobody knows but Steve. ;)
8)
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I love how every time Steve is mention there is an argument over his "natural" status.
Nobody knows but Steve. ;)
8)
Well there are things we know and things we don't. We know there is no verifiable track record of athletes in the United States taking PEDs before Dr John Ziegler in the mid 1950s , years before Reeves retired.
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Well there are things we know and things we don't. We know there is no verifiable track record of athletes in the United States taking PEDs before Dr John Ziegler in the mid 1950s , years before Reeves retired.
Exactly, i'm more on the side of things we "don't" know, but i'm not really into debating his use of PED's. The guy had incredible genetics and it doesn't matter to me if he used or not, i just know history and science always have unknowns, so i'm open to the fact that he could have used.
Either way it doesn't matter. Great man with a good build.
8)
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All forms of testosterone. Not one anabolic steroid. Like I said on a previous post the Soviets in the late 50's started gaining ground on the American in Olympic lifting. It was a sudden change. They were the ones injecting large doses of testosterone and the result was an enlarged prostate. Dianabol was made to counteract that problem by making a testosterone pill that was more anabolic and less androgenic.
Reeves was in shape from lifting weights when he was a 15. There are pictures. During world war II he stationed over seas he repped out with 110lbs barbell set he had on his base. He was in fantastic shape every decade of his life until his health failed. So juice heads here trying to justify there own use think he was juicing at 15, during his time in the service and every decade until he became ill in his senior years?
It's complete rationalization. It's the old I look like crap with steroids so everyone else does too. No, there are guys that have a great physique without steroids.
Bingo.
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Found this pic, looks like 140 on the inclines. Which is pretty good.
6 ft 1 and looking fantastic. That's how it should be
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No it doesn't. It doesn't prove anything. The creator of one of the first anabolics in history had NO success directly injecting testosterone into weight training athletes yet you somehow draw the conclusion that others were using and using successfully eons before? defies logic. I want something tangible not vague references I want a proven record of strength athletes using before Ziegler besides the Russians. It can't be done because if it could we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Follow this logic -
Schmoes love to pull their dicks to the thought that Zeigler and Dianabol were the first widely available steroid, not true - There were 18+ available for the asking. Furthermore, Dr. Charles Kochakian was promoting them for treatment of burns and war wounds through muscle building by the 1940's, anyone who might of come in contact with the war wounded could have had knowledge of this. In fact, Peary Rader of Ironman fame mentions being told of them by an orderly on a military hospital wing right after WWII.
On the flip side of that, you have Paul de Kruif in his book, The Male Hormone (1945) promoting them a strength and health restorative in the major media outlets of the day, which surely would have reviews read by the average man. Finally you have methyltestosterone freely sold in a major mens magazine of the day in the late 1940's.
While it is fair to say that Zeigler and the Dianabol trails of the 1950's were the first systematic steroid usage admitted too, you can't absolutely say that bodybuilders may not of tried them before that date, to do so is to be intellectually dishonest.
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Follow this logic -
Schmoes love to pull their dicks to the thought that Zeigler and Dianabol were the first widely available steroid, not true - Their were 18+ available for the asking. Furthermore, Dr. Charles Kochakian was promoting them for treatment of burns and war wounds through muscle building by the 1940's, anyone who might of come in contact with the war wounded could have had knowledge of this. In fact, Peary Rader of Ironman fame mentions being told of them by an orderly on a military hospital wing right after WWII.
On the flip side of that, you have Paul de Kruif in his book, The Male Hormone (1945) promoting them a strength and health restorative in the major media outlets of the day, which surely would have reviews read by the average man. Finally you have methyltestosterone freely sold in a major mens magazine of the day in the late 1940's.
While it is fair to say that Zeigler and the Dianabol trails of the 1950's were the first systematic steroid usage admitted too, you can't absolutely say that bodybuilders may not of tried them before that date, to do so is to be intellectually dishonest.
Again more vague references that equates to NOTHING.
While it is fair to say that Zeigler and the Dianabol trails of the 1950's were the first systematic steroid usage admitted too, you can't absolutely say that bodybuilders may not of tried them before that date, to do so is to be intellectually dishonest.
That's speculation and nothing more. Is a possibility? a far fetched one sure. Now how about probability? highly unlikely you could purchase something out of a men's magazine and have it be effective to a degree that a medical doctor/pharmacist/inventor was unable to accomplish with all the resources of Ciba labs.
The references in the men's magazines are snake-oil ads nothing more.
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Synthol was invented in 1996. Ronnie won the olympia 2 years afterwards. Therefore, Ronnie was using synthol. Right?
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Follow this logic -
Schmoes love to pull their dicks to the thought that Zeigler and Dianabol were the first widely available steroid, not true - Their were 18+ available for the asking. Furthermore, Dr. Charles Kochakian was promoting them for treatment of burns and war wounds through muscle building by the 1940's, anyone who might of come in contact with the war wounded could have had knowledge of this. In fact, Peary Rader of Ironman fame mentions being told of them by an orderly on a military hospital wing right after WWII.
On the flip side of that, you have Paul de Kruif in his book, The Male Hormone (1945) promoting them a strength and health restorative in the major media outlets of the day, which surely would have reviews read by the average man. Finally you have methyltestosterone freely sold in a major mens magazine of the day in the late 1940's.
While it is fair to say that Zeigler and the Dianabol trails of the 1950's were the first systematic steroid usage admitted too, you can't absolutely say that bodybuilders may not of tried them before that date, to do so is to be intellectually dishonest.
Friday, August 21, 2009
The History of Steroids in Bodybuilding
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections. By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes only, before that time. De Kruif himself made no connection between testosterone and possible athletic applications - his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to improve the vitality and health of aging men and those with specific conditions.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to testosterone, and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before this - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was using it for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
For these reasons it can be stated with some certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using testosterone or steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he competed at 214 pounds when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, he weighed 215 when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
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It's ok, we've had these arguments before, and as expected it all leads to folks simply believing all drugs must happen post Zeigler in the bodybuilding world ::).
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Synthol was invented in 1996. Ronnie won the olympia 2 years afterwards. Therefore, Ronnie was using synthol. Right?
From a purely scientific approach, you cannot say that he wasn't, since it was obviously available and very popular at the time. That's why these arguments are stupid, because nobody really knows, but if the compounds existed during his time, you cannot say with 100% accuracy that he didn't use them.
8)
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He was actually smaller in all of his films , producers wanted him lighter because he dwarfed his fellow actors. I've seen reports where he was down to 190lbs or lighter from when he competed around 215lbs
And the guy had exceptional genetics and muscle memory , you don't think it was possible to snap back into shape? He wasn't exceptionally large for his time either , Park was 225 at the same height. If he was 6'1" and weighed 235-240lbs I would entertain the thought , but 215lbs on a man with many consider to this day the best genetics the sports ever seen? come on
;D he was only 190 for the first hercules anf bigger in later movies....
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From a purely scientific approach, you cannot say that he wasn't, since it was obviously available and very popular at the time. That's why these arguments are stupid, because nobody really knows, but if the compounds existed during his time, you cannot say with 100% accuracy that he didn't use them.
8)
When the basis of someone's argument is since something exists, that the person automatically used that substance since it was technically available, that's a pretty weak argument.
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When the basis of someone's argument is since something exists, that the person automatically used that substance since it was technically available, that's a pretty weak argument.
Same could be said from totally dismissing something out of hand, simply because it doesn't fall within your desired time frame;).
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It's ok, we've had these arguments before, and as expected it all leads to folks simply believing all drugs must happen post Zeigler in the bodybuilding world ::).
Did you miss this part??
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
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When the basis of someone's argument is since something exists, that the person automatically used that substance since it was technically available, that's a pretty weak argument.
That's why it's stupid. Technically speaking, you cannot prove something that is unknown. Once something is available and statistically possible to have been used during that time, it has to be considered, that's how the scientific method works. It's not a matter of the strength of the argument. Subject could have been exposed to the compound, it's merely a possibility. No proof in either direction, so it's pointless. Something cannot be proven based on the unknown, you must have the opportunity for the occurrence to happen, which we have depending on who you talk to.
I don't care if Steve used AAS or not, but to say the man was a lifetime natural during a time when AAS were in fact available needs to backed up by proof. Just like the counter argument that he used AAS.
Just like I've never used heroin or raped someone, but i can be classified as someone who "could have".
I'd honestly rather argue the existence of God than Steve using hormones.
8)
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That's why it's stupid. Technically speaking, you cannot prove something that is unknown. Once something is available and statistically possible to have been used during that time, it has to be considered, that's how the scientific method works. It's not a matter of the strength of the argument. Subject could have been exposed to the compound, it's merely a possibility. No proof in either direction, so it's pointless. Something cannot be proven based on the unknown, you must have the opportunity for the occurrence to happen, which we have depending on who you talk to.
I don't care if Steve used AAS or not, but to say the man was a lifetime natural during a time when AAS were in fact available needs to backed up by proof. Just like the counter argument that he used AAS.
Just like I've never used heroin or raped someone, but i can be classified as someone who "could have".
I'd honestly rather argue the existence of God than Steve using hormones.
8)
a time when AAS were in fact available
Simply not accurate , they weren't ' available '
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
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Did you miss this part??
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
Bodybuilding magazine horseshit. Again multiple compounds freely available to the point of methyltestosterone being avaliable for order through major magazines of the time, open discussion about it in the major media of the day (De Kruif's book, etc....), etc....
Again, did Reeves use? I don't know, I don't care. But to dismiss the idea that steroids weren't a complete unknown to the average man at the time? That is laughable. It smacks of a person simply trying to protect the name of boyhood idols.
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A rational well thought out post.
he was gifted from the beginning no drugs needed
Yes, those pics show a physique that can be attained without steroids. I remember in high school there were 3 guys who had similar physiques. Coincidentally all three were gymnasts. Considering the era and their ages and the country I can tell you for a fact no one even heard of steroids.
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I think ND has this one right - on the balance of probability Reeves was clean.
From what I've read in the past about him he was just over 6'0 tall and weighed about 210 at his heaviest. Anyway, the pictures don't lie - that physique is easily attainable naturally.
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Bodybuilding magazine horseshit. Again multiple compounds freely available to the point of methyltestosterone being avaliable for order through major magazines of the time, open discussion about it in the major media of the day (De Kruif's book, etc....), etc....
Again, did Reeves use? I don't know, I don't care. But to dismiss the idea that steroids weren't a complete unknown to the average man at the time? That is laughable. It smacks of a person simply trying to protect the name of boyhood idols.
Bodybuilding magazine horseshit. Again multiple compounds freely available to the point of methyltestosterone being avaliable for order through major magazines of the time, open discussion about it in the major media of the day (De Kruif's book, etc....), etc....
It's horseshit because it doesn't fit your narrative ::) and FYI that's NOT from a bodybuilding magazine and somehow if it were that's a negative but the snake-oil ads in the back of men's magzines you're pushing isn't ::)
Again I have zero problems with PEDs I say they should be legal to use freely. I have no agenda with athletes using. But some people simply didn't use. it's a fact. Your vague references are nothing more than wishful thinking , snake oil ads aren't proof.
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It's horseshit because it doesn't fit your narrative ::)
My narrative is perfectly sound - "Certain steroids were somewhat widely known and openly available on the free market before Dianabol, therefore it is not unimaginable that they may have been used before the invention of the steroid known as dianabol". Anyone who that does not have a vested interest in the topic can see that it is a perfectly logical stance.
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My narrative is perfectly sound - "Certain steroids were somewhat widely known and openly available on the free market before Dianabol, therefore it is not unimaginable that they may have been used before the invention of the steroid known as dianabol". Anyone who that does not have a vested interest in the topic can see that it is a perfectly logical stance.
no it's most certainly NOT ' a perfectly logical stance ' Sorry beg to differ. Snake-oil ads which equate to Cybergenics ads aren't worth the paper they were printed on. All those ' steroids ' weren't ' steroids '
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
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Take this list-
Androsterone - (Schering - 1934)
Androfort (Richter - 1936)
Testosterone Propionate - Sterandryl (Roussel - 1936)
Testoviron (British Schering - 1936)
Virormone (Paines & Byrne - 1936)
Perandren (Ciba - 1937)
Neo-Hombreol (Organon - 1937)
Pantestin (Richter - ?? *at least 1941)
Erugon-S (Bayer - ?? *at least 1941)
Methyltestosterone - Metandren (Ciba - 1940)
Perandren Linguets (Ciba - 1940)
Glosso-Sterandryl (Roussel - 1941)
Neo-Hombreol-M (Organon - 1941)
Oreton M (British Schering - 1942)
Oraviron (British Schering - 1942)
Viromone- Oral (Paines & Byrne - 1942)
Testosterone Cypionate
Type it into - https://books.google.com/ individually. See where those drugs are mentioned? Actual medical journals as being available for sale. Gosh, who'd of thunk it.
See that ad for MethylTest tablets in the magazines? Guess what the FDA did after a few years? They made Hudson remove them because they were actual drugs being sold - http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt . :o.
And this De Kruif fellow that had his book on testosterone reviewed by Life Magazine, The New York Times, etc....? Was this a schome with a Smith Corona? Nope, World respected doctor, friend of Upton Sinclair, and writer for some of the major magazines of the day -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_de_Kruif .
But yes, I'm sure that it was a deep dark secret till Zeigler ::) ;D.
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Same could be said from totally dismissing something out of hand, simply because it doesn't fall within your desired time frame;).
You mean guilty till proven innocent? Makes sense...
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You mean guilty till proven innocent? Makes sense...
By that standard let's just stifle all specific "xxx bodybuilder's drug stack" talk till we hear them admit to usage or we see an actual Sustanon preload jammed into glute? Why are bodybuilders from early steroid eras protected by their fans, but Ruhl, Cutler, etc.... not?
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Take this list-
Androsterone - (Schering - 1934)
Androfort (Richter - 1936)
Testosterone Propionate - Sterandryl (Roussel - 1936)
Testoviron (British Schering - 1936)
Virormone (Paines & Byrne - 1936)
Perandren (Ciba - 1937)
Neo-Hombreol (Organon - 1937)
Pantestin (Richter - ?? *at least 1941)
Erugon-S (Bayer - ?? *at least 1941)
Methyltestosterone - Metandren (Ciba - 1940)
Perandren Linguets (Ciba - 1940)
Glosso-Sterandryl (Roussel - 1941)
Neo-Hombreol-M (Organon - 1941)
Oreton M (British Schering - 1942)
Oraviron (British Schering - 1942)
Viromone- Oral (Paines & Byrne - 1942)
Testosterone Cypionate
Type it into - https://books.google.com/ individually. See where those drugs are mentioned? Actual medical journals as being available for sale. Gosh, who'd of thunk it.
See that ad for MethylTest tablets in the magazines? Guess what the FDA did after a few years? They made Hudson remove them because they were actual drugs being sold - http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/13388/3/174001130.txt . :o.
And this De Kruif fellow that had his book on testosterone reviewed by Life Magazine, The New York Times, etc....? Was this a schome with a Smith Corona? Nope, World respected doctor, friend of Upton Sinclair, and writer for some of the major magazines of the day -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_de_Kruif .
But yes, I'm sure that it was a deep dark secret till Zeigler ::) ;D.
That list is useless until you can link strength athletes to using anything on that list with success ;) and we both know you can't
And all of these ' available steroids ' Why was Ziegler plying the coach of the Russian weighlifteing team with alcohol to learn his secrets on why his athletes were breaking records left-and-right when all he had to do is go in the back of a men's magazine and order up all of these steroids LMFAO ;D Because I'm sure they would all be much more effective than the pharmaceutical grade testosterone he initially tried with NO success which led him to create D-bol .
get serious if you think anything on that list was ' available ' and ' effective ' and used for strength enhancing purposes. You have a list WOW-WEE now prove anything on that list was used and was used effectively ;) We both know you can't.
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
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Meathead Logic ;D.
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By that standard let's just stifle all specific "xxx bodybuilder's drug stack" talk till we hear them admit to usage or we see an actual Sustanon preload jammed into glute? Why are bodybuilders from early steroid eras protected by their fans, but Ruhl, Cutler, etc.... not?
Oh brother
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Meathead Logic ;D.
;D
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no it's most certainly NOT ' a perfectly logical stance ' Sorry beg to differ. Snake-oil ads which equate to Cybergenics ads aren't worth the paper they were printed on. All those ' steroids ' weren't ' steroids '
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
All they had to do was read page 130 of July 1944 Readers Digest magazine, order the pills, take off the cap, eat 4 pills a day.
Simples. :D
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ND,
Do you know the year of this pic? This is as big as I've seen Reeves in a bodybuilding pose.
(http://www.iron-age-classic-bodybuilding.com/images/Steve_Reeves_double_biceps.JPG)
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He was actually smaller in all of his films , producers wanted him lighter because he dwarfed his fellow actors. I've seen reports where he was down to 190lbs or lighter from when he competed around 215lbs
Yeah that must be true: Lou Ferrigno had the same problem: all movie studios wanted him for his Oscar winning acting talent, but he dwarfed his fellow actors, so he constantly had to slim down...... :-X 8) ;D ;)
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Time travel. The answer to how the early bodybuilders got access to these drugs is time travel. I mean, its obvious to anyone with even a modicum of intelligence, and by that I mean the mental ability needed to run basic non-voluntary bodily functions like respiration and heartbeat, that early bodybuilders were also time travelers. Simples.
So there we have it. All the proof needed to say for certain that Steve Reeves and his cohorts were in fact, on "stayroids". Time-fooking-travel.
FM, baby. FM.
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All they had to do was read page 130 of July 1944 Readers Digest magazine, order the pills, take off the cap, eat 4 pills a day.
Simples. :D
That's why everyone who ordered and took those fake "get an erection" pills looked like Steve Reeves in 1944! That's right there were tens of thousands of great looking bodybuilder types just like Steve Reeves walking around in 1944, right? Had to be, if what you are saying is true. But wait! No there weren't! So, do you see why you're full of shit now?
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All they had to do was read page 130 of July 1944 Readers Digest magazine, order the pills, take off the cap, eat 4 pills a day.
Simples. :D
Yeah Cybergenics promised the same thing ;D
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ND,
Do you know the year of this pic? This is as big as I've seen Reeves in a bodybuilding pose.
(http://www.iron-age-classic-bodybuilding.com/images/Steve_Reeves_double_biceps.JPG)
Not sure but it's a competition pic and his last contest was 1950 , he retired at 24 because he won every major contest there was
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Bodybuilding magazine horseshit. Again multiple compounds freely available to the point of methyltestosterone being avaliable for order through major magazines of the time, open discussion about it in the major media of the day (De Kruif's book, etc....), etc....
Again, did Reeves use? I don't know, I don't care. But to dismiss the idea that steroids weren't a complete unknown to the average man at the time? That is laughable. It smacks of a person simply trying to protect the name of boyhood idols.
^^
VERY well said, it was WELL KNOWN not only in the magazines, but by Doctors, and I'm SURE questions were asked by the physique community by even seeing the ads in magazines!!
P.S. What I wouldn't do for a few bottles today!!!!!!
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^^
VERY well said, it was WELL KNOWN not only in the magazines, but by Doctors, and I'm SURE questions were asked by the physique community by even seeing the ads in magazines!!
P.S. What I wouldn't do for a few bottles today!!!!!!
lmfao you think that's what you got back then? ::)
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That's why everyone who ordered and took those fake "get an erection" pills looked like Steve Reeves in 1944! That's right there were tens of thousands of great looking bodybuilder types just like Steve Reeves walking around in 1944, right? Had to be, if what you are saying is true. But wait! No there weren't! So, do you see why you're full of shit now?
Well sonny it's obvious that you would have no problem getting an erection as long as you had a Steve Reeves "Gladiator" film to watch.
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Players have attempted to gain chemical advantages in baseball since the earliest days of the sport. In 1889, for example, pitcher Pud Galvin became the first baseball player to be widely known for his use of performance-enhancing substances. Galvin was a user and vocal proponent of the Brown-Sιquard Elixir, a testosterone supplement derived from the testicles of live animals such as dogs and guinea pigs.
The book The Baseball Hall of Shame's Warped Record Book, written by Bruce Nash, Bob Smith, Allan Zullo, and Lola Tipton,includes an account of Babe Ruth administering to himself an injection of an extract from sheep testicles. The experimental concoction allegedly proved ineffective, making Ruth ill and leading the Yankees to attribute his absence from the lineup to "a bellyache".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#Historical_use
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Players have attempted to gain chemical advantages in baseball since the earliest days of the sport. In 1889, for example, pitcher Pud Galvin became the first baseball player to be widely known for his use of performance-enhancing substances. Galvin was a user and vocal proponent of the Brown-Sιquard Elixir, a testosterone supplement derived from the testicles of live animals such as dogs and guinea pigs.
The book The Baseball Hall of Shame's Warped Record Book, written by Bruce Nash, Bob Smith, Allan Zullo, and Lola Tipton,includes an account of Babe Ruth administering to himself an injection of an extract from sheep testicles. The experimental concoction allegedly proved ineffective, making Ruth ill and leading the Yankees to attribute his absence from the lineup to "a bellyache".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#Historical_use
Wow that proves unequivocally that Reeves was juiced to the gills ::)
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Wow that proves unequivocally that Reeves was juiced to the gills ::)
Who said it did?
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Who said it did?
I did ;D
Anecdotes , hearsay , stories , all equate to proof on these matters.
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I did ;D
Anecdotes , hearsay , stories , all equate to proof on these matters.
I just posted that little wiki article to see where people would take it. 8)
Personally I think Reeves was natural but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that he used test.
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lmfao you think that's what you got back then? ::)
^^
So you didn't see the ad?? Where it says "MAIL COUPON TODAY" simply scroll up a few inches...
Methyl Testosterone being sold through an ad in Popular Science in 1948 -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=methyltestosterone+hudson&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1niVU5r7CcqdyASxo4CAAQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=methyltestosterone%20hudson&f=false
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^^
So you didn't see the ad?? Where it says "MAIL COUPON TODAY" simply scroll up a few inches...
Methyl Testosterone being sold through an ad in Popular Science in 1948 -
http://books.google.com/books?id=fiYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA258&dq=methyltestosterone+hudson&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1niVU5r7CcqdyASxo4CAAQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=methyltestosterone%20hudson&f=false
I've seen the ad , do you think you got pharmaceutical grade anabolic steroids? ;D because I have a bridge for sale.
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All forms of testosterone. Not one anabolic steroid.
Anahahahahaa that's all I need to read, you lost this one with just that statement. He was a juicer.
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He was actually smaller in all of his films , producers wanted him lighter because he dwarfed his fellow actors. I've seen reports where he was down to 190lbs or lighter from when he competed around 215lbs
And the guy had exceptional genetics and muscle memory , you don't think it was possible to snap back into shape? He wasn't exceptionally large for his time either , Park was 225 at the same height. If he was 6'1" and weighed 235-240lbs I would entertain the thought , but 215lbs on a man with many consider to this day the best genetics the sports ever seen? come on
This is starting to sound like the rationalizations surrounding Michael Jackson. Oh he's special, he doesn't care about sex the way normal people do, blah blah blah, muscle memory exceptional genetics.
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Bodybuilding magazine horseshit. Again multiple compounds freely available to the point of methyltestosterone being avaliable for order through major magazines of the time, open discussion about it in the major media of the day (De Kruif's book, etc....), etc....
Again, did Reeves use? I don't know, I don't care. But to dismiss the idea that steroids weren't a complete unknown to the average man at the time? That is laughable. It smacks of a person simply trying to protect the name of boyhood idols.
Spot on, this is bodybuilding magazine horseshit. Some schmoe trying to rewrite history with poorly researched material. Reeves probably had a German cousin or something.
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^^
VERY well said, it was WELL KNOWN not only in the magazines, but by Doctors, and I'm SURE questions were asked by the physique community by even seeing the ads in magazines!!
P.S. What I wouldn't do for a few bottles today!!!!!!
This whole Zeigler point is pure sheepshit and rests on the premise that test doesn't work and until Dbol came along there wasn't any point. That is a MORONIC position. Test cypionate, propionate, methyl test and a bunch of other shit on that list doesn't work for bodybuilding? Do you know how stupid that sounds?
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ND,
Do you know the year of this pic? This is as big as I've seen Reeves in a bodybuilding pose.
(http://www.iron-age-classic-bodybuilding.com/images/Steve_Reeves_double_biceps.JPG)
I think it was '47.
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This whole Zeigler point is pure sheepshit and rests on the premise that test doesn't work and until Dbol came along there wasn't any point. That is a MORONIC position. Test cypionate, propionate, methyl test and a bunch of other shit on that list doesn't work for bodybuilding? Do you know how stupid that sounds?
Prove any of those did work at the time and prove strength athletes were using them. Oh and good luck ;)
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LOL @ getbiggers. if he ever Did take anything artificial, and therefore *lied* about it, he didn't need to AND there still never has been nor likely ever will be another one like him. &guy druggies take all this chemical shit and still look like puke. Give it up little boys.
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This is starting to sound like the rationalizations surrounding Michael Jackson. Oh he's special, he doesn't care about sex the way normal people do, blah blah blah, muscle memory exceptional genetics.
Rationalizations? like there is NO history of any athletes taking PEDs until years after he retired ;)
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NarcissisticDeity would make one hell of a defense lawyer, until everyone found out he was handicapped.
You get him onto a subject he is passionate about...............and forget about it.
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Prove any of those did work at the time and prove strength athletes were using them. Oh and good luck ;)
Prove they did work at the time? At the time? Test cypionate and propionate are mainstream bbing drugs today and have been for years. Are you an absolute ignoramus? Has test propionate or cyp somehow chemically transformed since the 40s? Read any book on the subject. Your credibility is entirely gone.
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The Popularization of Testosterone Among West Coast Bodybuilders
In 1945, writer Paul de Kruif celebrated the anabolic properties of testosterone, testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone in the book entitled The Male Hormone. This widely-read book was rumored to have helped popularize the potential of testosterone (and future anabolic steroids) to increase muscle mass among West Coast bodybuilders in the late 1940s and early 1950s. This was only the beginning of bodybuildings fascination with anabolic steroids.
The bodybuilding community as a whole would soon start widely experimenting with anabolic steroids in the 1950s and become pioneers in steroid use. They would remain on the cutting edge of performance-enhancement drugs well into the next century.
IFBB Mr. Olympia Larry Scott admitted that he, and practically all of the top competitive bodybuilders, were also using anabolic steroids by 1960.
There by the late 40s.
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:o he pinch gripped deadlifted a substantial weight was capable of one arm chins.
Though he didn't invent it, what was called the "Reeves Deadlift" is great for outer pec development. Seems to have worked for him.
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The Popularization of Testosterone Among West Coast Bodybuilders
In 1945, writer Paul de Kruif celebrated the anabolic properties of testosterone, testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone in the book entitled The Male Hormone. This widely-read book was rumored to have helped popularize the potential of testosterone (and future anabolic steroids) to increase muscle mass among West Coast bodybuilders in the late 1940s and early 1950s. This was only the beginning of bodybuildings fascination with anabolic steroids.
The bodybuilding community as a whole would soon start widely experimenting with anabolic steroids in the 1950s and become pioneers in steroid use. They would remain on the cutting edge of performance-enhancement drugs well into the next century.
IFBB Mr. Olympia Larry Scott admitted that he, and practically all of the top competitive bodybuilders, were also using anabolic steroids by 1960.
There by the late 40s.
LMFAO you just made this shit up , post a source for this ;) you're reduced to making shit up now
edit I found the ' source ' and you guessed it no proof just hearsay ;D and vague references
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tt
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tt
Reeves didn't take steroids because they weren't invented yet ;)
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LMFAO you just made this shit up , post a source for this ;) you're reduced to making shit up now
edit I found the ' source ' and you guessed it no proof just hearsay ;D and vague references
So funny, first I made it up, then it was just hearsay once you googled. It's as legit as that tripe you posted about Zeigler. Here is what tips the balance for me: 1- the entire history of the sport of bbing has been one big lie about not taking steroids so hucksters could sell fake supplements, Reeves statement fits this same mold, 2-his actual physique looks like he juiced at some point, 3- that odd statement about no one being willing to say it to his face when he was alive or he'd have punched them in the nose or something. Anytime I see something like that it is usually an attempt to distract from the lie being told.
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Reeves didn't take steroids because they weren't invented yet ;)
Is testosterone a steroid?
And all those Hercules and other movies were made in the late 50s by the time everyone was juicing even by your own timeline. Does it really matter if he didn't take them to compete if he did take them for the movies?
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Is testosterone a steroid?
And all those Hercules and other movies were made in the late 50s by the time everyone was juicing even by your own timeline. Does it really matter if he didn't take them to compete if he did take them for the movies?
(http://www.stevereevesbiography.com/Hercules_pulling_chains_pillars___LOW_MG_edited-1.jpg)
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So funny, first I made it up, then it was just hearsay once you googled. It's as legit as that tripe you posted about Zeigler. Here is what tips the balance for me: 1- the entire history of the sport of bbing has been one big lie about not taking steroids so hucksters could sell fake supplements, Reeves statement fits this same mold, 2-his actual physique looks like he juiced at some point, 3- that odd statement about no one being willing to say it to his face when he was alive or he'd have punched them in the nose or something. Anytime I see something like that it is usually an attempt to distract from the lie being told.
Of course it's hearsay and it's vague with nothing to verify anything. it's an opinion and not even a well informed one at that. And you're dead wrong about it being as legit as Ziegler , because his story is verifiable by a host of sources from Bill Star , Bill March , Grimeck , Hoffman , the whole York gym , etc. It's well documented that this is the genesis of PEDs in the United States there is nothing before. Anything you type is fluff it has zero substance and you know it.
the entire history of the sport of bbing has been one big lie about not taking steroids so hucksters could sell fake supplements
Not true , there was a time when there was no steroids , I agree about the hucksters selling junk though even when there were no drugs in the sport
2-his actual physique looks like he juiced at some point
oh boy ::) see uninformed opinion
that odd statement about no one being willing to say it to his face when he was alive or he'd have punched them in the nose or something. Anytime I see something like that it is usually an attempt to distract from the lie being told.
I don't even know if that's true , I've never saw in in all the Reeves interviews I've saw. What would be his motivation to lie? They wouldn't have been banned or illegal no need to lie , guys today have to lie for legal reasons.
Is testosterone a steroid?
And all those Hercules and other movies were made in the late 50s by the time everyone was juicing even by your own timeline. Does it really matter if he didn't take them to compete if he did take them for the movies?
Testosterone was an experimental drug at the time and very few people had access to it outside of research and scientists. Stop acting like it was readily available , regardless of what that ad in the back of the magazine said.
All those Hercules movies he was SMALLER than when he competed!! get it he was 215lbs when he competed and as low as 190lbs for movies , that defies logic. You're just trolling now and you're not even any good at that :-\
If you have anything of substance I'll be more than willing to change my mind but you set the bar of acceptable ' evidence ' so low you've already made up your mind , I'm not trying to change your mind I'm showing you Reeves on steroids doesn't even make sense on a hypothetical level never mind a realistic one.
Come back when you have proof I'll be waiting ;)
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(http://www.stevereevesbiography.com/Hercules_pulling_chains_pillars___LOW_MG_edited-1.jpg)
Films we all know make you appear larger , and he was a lot lighter for them than he was when he competed.
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honestly I think he was one of the first guys who experimented with it
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;D
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honestly I think he was one of the first guys who experimented with it
Based on what? No one has been able to post one tangible bit of evidence, that Steve Reeves ever used drugs to build his muscles.
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Based on what? No one has been able to post one tangible bit of evidence, that Steve Reeves ever used drugs to build his muscles.
based on not alot. Pure speculation
But steroids where in experimental stages in the 40's and Steve Reves was high profile at the time so he would probably be one of the first to get his hands on it.
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;D
haha that's great.
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based on not alot. Pure speculation
But steroids where in experimental stages in the 40's and Steve Reves was high profile at the time so he would probably be one of the first to get his hands on it.
MAYBE he purchased them at gnc before they were banned in the sealed locked plastic case behind counter...
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based on not a lot. Pure speculation.
Right. No evidence.
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This inability to accept Reeves dabbling with early Test and of course dbol when his films were being shot (I believe Hercules was released in 1959) is exactly the blind fan boy behaviour which allowed Jimmy Saville to get away with his activities for decades.
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This inability to accept Reeves dabbling with early Test and of course dbol when his films were being shot (I believe Hercules was released in 1959) is exactly the blind fan boy behaviour which allowed Jimmy Saville to get away with his activities for decades.
More of your beliefs. Steve Reeves was bigger in the 1940s, as a bodybuilder contestant, than he was during his film career. Fact!
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This inability to accept Reeves dabbling with early Test and of course dbol when his films were being shot (I believe Hercules was released in 1959) is exactly the blind fan boy behaviour which allowed Jimmy Saville to get away with his activities for decades.
Rumored to have slept with Arnold.
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This inability to accept Reeves dabbling with early Test and of course dbol when his films were being shot (I believe Hercules was released in 1959) is exactly the blind fan boy behaviour which allowed Jimmy Saville to get away with his activities for decades.
Stop it lol
I have zero problems with steroids I think they should be legal for recreational use. There NEVER will be a ' level playing field ' with that said Reeves era was drug free that's a fact.
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More of your beliefs. Steve Reeves was bigger in the 1940s, as a bodybuilder contestant, than he was during his film career. Fact!
Same with Arnold and he was juiced all through his bodybuilding and movie career.
Let's keep this argument going! ;D
8)
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Same with Arnold and he was juiced all through his bodybuilding and movie career.
Let's keep this argument going! ;D
8)
Good point , but Arnold admitted to doing steroids and they were readily available. That's the difference
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Same with Arnold and he was juiced all through his bodybuilding and movie career.
Let's keep this argument going! ;D
8)
Arnold admitted doing drugs, and the drugs were available when he was completing. Reeves denied using drugs, was opposed to drug use, and there were no drugs that got any muscle building results in the 1940s.
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It's obviously of great value to the bodybuilding community and we demand answers. I deeply appreciate everyones devotion to this cause.
This thread is obviously proof that he was natural. I see enough documentation to prove such a claim. It's all right here in front of us.
Great work guys. Steroids obviously never made it into his body. It's impossible and impractical to think such a thing.
Time to lock this thread or move it to bodybuilding history board for proper archival.
I've always thought he was natural. Maybe my faith in Steve has guided my mind and shielded me from the belief he ever was anything less than Divine.
8)
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Steve Reeves will always remind me of my childhood.. training in Scotland. Lets remember him for his outstanding physique, work ethics. Great Bodybuilder Join the Steve Reeves Society for Free and see some great pics and more. ;)
http://www.stevereeves.com/
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<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Interesting.
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<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Interesting.
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;)
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very good facial aesthetics on Mr. Reeves. Don't Think bodybuilding has seen a more handsome guy
(no homo)
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imagine walking around like that in his days. with that face and body. literally nobody was even close to his body. he must have been swimming in pussy...
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It's a moot point
Reeves handsome looks, height and structure were what made him look so incredible.
The few BB drugs available then would only have made a very small difference , in him, IF he tried them.
Here are 2 other handsome fine Christian gentlemen, both lifetime naturals and one a friend of the pope. Doesn't mean they don't have guilty secrets beneath the surface in the case of the blonde haired fellow.
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imagine walking around like that in his days. with that face and body. literally nobody was even close to his body. he must have been swimming in pussy...
Yup, wish I was there to collect his castoffs. Dave Draper was another good looking dude in his prime, must of had to beat the girls off with a stick
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It's a moot point
Reeves handsome looks, height and structure were what made him look so incredible.
The few BB drugs available then would only have made a very small difference , in him, IF he tried them.
If you think cypionate would only make a small difference versus being natural then you are obviously just an old schmoe.
As for why he would lie, he'd lie because steroids were demonized especially starting in the late 80s and he didn't want to tarnish his legacy. I started out in this thread just not wanting to be fed BS by someone who was obviously blinded to the facts. But now I am mad because I realize that this bullshit natural claim was all ego stroke, to the detriment of those who came after him. He should have told the truth. A person of his stature coming right out and speaking the truth would be something to respect. Instead it just feeds into more of the BS being fed to us by both the medical and bbing communities.
He's no better than those high level male action stars who won't come out of the closet despite all the evidence otherwise.
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imagine walking around like that in his days. with that face and body. literally nobody was even close to his body. he must have been swimming in pussy...
That thumbnail image from this video has test written all over it.
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Oh yeah, being a devoted Christian , especially a devout pastor , Priest = the highest moral character
Looky here , back then the strongest drug they had was some test from ground donkey balls :D
Even if some of them used whatever was available then , it wouldn't make much difference.
It wasn't until around 1967-68 that the physiques begin to show the freaky aspects from hardcore AAS use.
Now you're all over the place fanboi. It's been posted multiple places in this thread that they had many forms of testosterone and the big 3 German pharmaceutical companies had the stuff available in the 40s. Seriously, now you're trying to push it to the late 60s?
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If you think cypionate would only make a small difference versus being natural then you are obviously just an old schmoe.
As for why he would lie, he'd lie because steroids were demonized especially starting in the late 80s and he didn't want to tarnish his legacy. I started out in this thread just not wanting to be fed BS by someone who was obviously blinded to the facts. But now I am mad because I realize that this bullshit natural claim was all ego stroke, to the detriment of those who came after him. He should have told the truth. A person of his stature coming right out and speaking the truth would be something to respect. Instead it just feeds into more of the BS being fed to us by both the medical and bbing communities.
He's no better than those high level male action stars who won't come out of the closet despite all the evidence otherwise.
This is just like the Bill Pearl situation. One minute he's never taken a steroid in his life. Such an upstanding gentleman of honour and dignity etc who would never cheat by taking drugs.
Then someone finds out that he mentions trying steroids in his book. Just twice for a few weeks tho.
Then a mod on Ironage mentions he had taped an interview with pearl in the 80's and the fucker admitted be was on drugs constantly from the 1950's to the 80's.
Then the mod tells everyone he is not discussing this further.
Then several members say they used to train with Bill in the 70's and his nickname at the gym was Captain Dianabol because he took them like candy.
From natural to drug addict in one 24 hour period. :D :D :D :D :D
No longer is he considered a man of class, dignity, higher morals etc.
The fact that he helped his brother cover up the death of a victim of a botched illegal abortion is neither here nor there of course.
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I have never met Bill Pearl but spoke to him 3 times on the phone. was always very kind and we had a good open conversation about a lot of things(not Drugs). People Trashing him on this or another forum is out of order. Pearl in his Prime was a very strong man and ex wrestler. Has my respect.
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:) Pic of Steve reeves to stay on topic ;D
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I have never met Bill Pearl but spoke to him 3 times on the phone. was always very kind and we had a good open conversation about a lot of things(not Drugs). People Trashing him on this or another forum is out of order. Pearl in his Prime was a very strong man and ex wrestler. Has my respect.
Exactly Donny. I think my subtle comments go over the heads of some.
All this "Reeves was too fine a gentleman to ever take drugs" is an insult to Pearl, Park, Scott etc.
It matters not one jot who took what. No one should be rubbishing others by implying Reeves is a better person than Pearl just because he was born with the genetics and in a time period not to need enhancement.
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pearl had good build /strong look to his build...
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LMFAO you just made this shit up , post a source for this ;) you're reduced to making shit up now
edit I found the ' source ' and you guessed it no proof just hearsay ;D and vague references
Just like the horseshit you've been quoting plenty of times coming straight out of a blog, with exactly zero references. While perhaps the 'facts' in the blog could be verified, at no point were they in actuality, thus your quoting of it can be dismissed as purely agreeing with an opinion.
The fact is, Reeves may either have been on steroids, or he may not have been. To pick either without any possibility to confirm, nor disprove, would be idiotic and originate solely from being either a fanboy or a hater of Reeves.
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Just like the horseshit you've been quoting plenty of times coming straight out of a blog, with exactly zero references. While perhaps the 'facts' in the blog could be verified, at no point were they in actuality, thus your quoting of it can be dismissed as purely agreeing with an opinion.
The fact is, Reeves may either have been on steroids, or he may not have been. To pick either without any possibility to confirm, nor disprove, would be idiotic and originate solely from being either a fanboy or a hater of Reeves.
On June 1, 1889, Dr. Charles-Ιdouard Brown-Sιquard delivered some startling news to his colleagues at the Sociιtι de Biologie in Paris. The eccentric physiologist reported that hed successfully concocted a most unconventional fountain of youth: a liquid extract derived from dog and guinea pig testicles. The 72-year-old Brown-Sιquard said that after injecting himself with the elixir, he felt 10 years younger and had the physical strength and intellectual energy to work in his laboratory for three hours straight, rather than just for his usual half an hour.
News of the youth-bestowing tonic quickly went viral and created a global sensation. Many doctors were skeptical of Brown-Sιquards outlandish claims, but he was hardly known as a quack. A pioneering expert on the spinal cords physiology, he was held in high regard by the medical community.
Throughout the summer of 1889, fantastic claims about the therapeutic benefits of Brown-Sιquards elixir generated front-page stories across the United States. Old Men Made Young, cried a St. Paul Daily Globe headline on August 10, 1889. Old Men Made as Frisky as the Friskiest Boys, blared The Boston Globe the next day. The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that 70-year-old Fielden Weir, a former slave whod been crippled with rheumatism, was dancing and kicking both feet as high as his head just hours after receiving an injection. The demand for sheepused instead of guinea pigs by many American doctorswas so high in Cincinnati that butchers couldnt keep pace.
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Guys, he obviously had one of a kind genetics that no other man will ever have. That's why he looked so much better than everyone else. It's a shame that millions of other mortals trained just as hard and were more dedicated to bodybuilding than him, yet never looked anything like him. He never admitted to using steroids guys, it's got proof all over it. I mean, why would the best built man on the planet lie about taking muscle building drugs?
Praise Steve, conqueror of all naturals and REAL genetic freak. (No Twizzlers needed)
8)
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Just like the horseshit you've been quoting plenty of times coming straight out of a blog, with exactly zero references. While perhaps the 'facts' in the blog could be verified, at no point were they in actuality, thus your quoting of it can be dismissed as purely agreeing with an opinion.
The fact is, Reeves may either have been on steroids, or he may not have been. To pick either without any possibility to confirm, nor disprove, would be idiotic and originate solely from being either a fanboy or a hater of Reeves.
Points taken , however this information isn't exactly some vague reference in the back of a magazine , it's pretty well documented over the years. There is a wealth of information out there and the genesis of athletes in the United States using PEDs begins with Ziegler it's not debatable.
First link is a great read.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1993/JSH2001/jsh2001b.pdf
http://articles.philly.com/2002-10-20/sports/25352734_1_steroids-york-barbell-chuck-yesalis
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i actually met steve reeves once, it was a hot summer day in april of 59, he was clearly offseason but still had a solid built, wearing jeans and cowboy boots and a shirt that was unbuttoned, we decided to lift weights in his garage before hitting the beach we went for the pump and never put any heavy weights on the bar so to this day i dont know how strong he was but it was a beautiful day one that i will cherish.
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Points taken , however this information isn't exactly some vague reference in the back of a magazine , it's pretty well documented over the years. There is a wealth of information out there and the genesis of athletes in the United States using PEDs begins with Ziegler it's not debatable.
First link is a great read.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1993/JSH2001/jsh2001b.pdf
http://articles.philly.com/2002-10-20/sports/25352734_1_steroids-york-barbell-chuck-yesalis
Again, you are just looking at them as starting only from York Barbell, meanwhile there was almost a decade worth of testosterone talk and widespread availability before that at the time. We do not know the exact date of common place usage, but since were know that testosterone was available before Zeigler, therefore theoretical usage can occur before that.
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7 pages of Testosterone therapy talk and experimentation taking place before 1951. Not taking into account studies not yet scanned into google, or ones that may be revealed by tweaking the search terms.
https://www.google.com/search?q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&biw=1242&bih=606&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1900%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1951&tbm=bks#q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1900,cd_max:12/31/1951&tbm=bks&start=10
.
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7 pages of Testosterone therapy talk and experimentation taking place before 1951. Not taking into account studies not yet scanned into google, or ones that may be revealed by tweaking the search terms.
https://www.google.com/search?q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&biw=1242&bih=606&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1900%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1951&tbm=bks#q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1900,cd_max:12/31/1951&tbm=bks&start=10
.
There has been anecdotal evidence of testosterone ' use ' for eons before the 50's however there is absolutely NOTHING when it comes to athletes using. we have an established time-line for PEDs in strength athletes in the United States and it's years after retired it's an irrefutable fact , everything else fluff.
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7 pages of Testosterone therapy talk and experimentation taking place before 1951. Not taking into account studies not yet scanned into google, or ones that may be revealed by tweaking the search terms.
https://www.google.com/search?q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&biw=1242&bih=606&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1900%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1951&tbm=bks#q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1900,cd_max:12/31/1951&tbm=bks&start=10
.
Find a reference that states that test was being used for Bodybuilding, before Ziegler. Even Ziegler initially started using it for strength, rather than for muscle growth. The references you posted seem to only be about using test for treatment of impotence.
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Again, you are just looking at them as starting only from York Barbell, meanwhile there was almost a decade worth of testosterone talk and widespread availability before that at the time. We do not know the exact date of common place usage, but since were know that testosterone was available before Zeigler, therefore theoretical usage can occur before that.
Yes theoretical , hypothetical , wishful thinking , etc , I'll deal with what we know not what we think we know , what we want to believe. In the realm of possibility could Reeves be on testosterone? theoretically? sure , what''s the probability? extremely unlikely.
This is Da Vinci's parachute it's NOT proof people were base jumping in 1485
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Arnold admitted doing drugs, and the drugs were available when he was completing. Reeves denied using drugs, was opposed to drug use, and there were no drugs that got any muscle building results in the 1940s.
Are we really debating a guy's natty status from the 1950's? Is that where we are at now with this whole natty/juiced debate? I think I'll take the word of a former trainee/partner of Reeves like yourself than all this other speculation bullshit. Reeves had world class genetics, he wasn't otherworldly big. I know how good my genetics are and have seen and were friend's with guy's that were given even better gifts. All this coming from a small area in Southeastern CT. So what could someone achieve with the top 2-3% bb genetics naturally? Plus you think someone valuing his body as much as Reeves would throw some unknown shit in his body with barely any science behind it? Would he have used in the 70's if he was in his peak then? Prob, if he wanted to compete at the highest level. Who knows, this thread is a bunch of garbage. Same 'ole people on this site who never achieved anything worthwhile naturally in the gym and have to tear everyone else down. This coming from someone who uses gear but only aftet I trained 7 yrs natty. I would go back to my natural build any day of the week, too. I could prob be even better than I was knowing everything I know about diet and protein shakes being garbage. Good to know things don't change after all these yrs on getbig, if I can't do it no one can.
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Find a reference that states that test was being used for Bodybuilding, before Ziegler. Even Ziegler initially started using it for strength. rather than muscle growth.The references you posted seem to only be about about using test for treatment of impotence.
If he read the link I posted he would know that even Zeigler wasn't having much success initially with pure testosterone and even with dianabol , now we're supposed to believe that the inventor of D-bols who had all the access and research of CIBA labs had little success with drugs was superseded by Reeves a a decade earlier with success? lol get the fuck outta here ::)
These people are like fundamentalist Christian apologists who when the story doesn't fit their narrative they try make it fit one way or another , it's literally grasping at straws.
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If he read the link I posted he would know that even Zeigler wasn't having much success initially with pure testosterone and even with dianabol , now we're supposed to believe that the inventor of D-bols who had all the access and research of CIBA labs had little success with drugs was superseded by Reeves a a decade earlier with success? lol get the fuck outta here ::)
These people are like fundamentalist Christian apologists who when the story doesn't fit their narrative they try make it fit one way or another , it's literally grasping at straws.
The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away. We are talking about the 40's-50's, correct? How the fuck would Reeve's know the shit wouldn't give him cancer, to throw out an extreme example. No science backed studies or long term research but Reeve's is gonna give it a shot, for 8-10 extra lbs?
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The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away. We are talking about the 40's-50's, correct? How the fuck would Reeve's know the shit wouldn't give him cancer, to throw out an extreme example. No science backed studies or long term research but Reeve's is gonna give it a shot, for 8-10 extra lbs?
Dude grew up with a nutritionist for a mom and was all about living a healthy lifestyle.
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6 Billion people on the planet. Only one Steve.
We know everything that ever happen in the past 100 years for sure. There is nothing we do not know, particularly in bodybuilding where everything is so honest and out in the open.
Dude is legit natural God status.
8)
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The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away. We are talking about the 40's-50's, correct? How the fuck would Reeve's know the shit wouldn't give him cancer, to throw out an extreme example. No science backed studies or long term research but Reeve's is gonna give it a shot, for 8-10 extra lbs?
I really don't care about Reeves, I am simply stating that we should simply be willing to entertain that Testosterone/Androgen use could predate Zeiger by 5-10 years. Again we have it being discussed in popular culture throughout the late 1940's, Companies selling methyltestosterone by the FDA's own admission by mail order in 1948-1950. We have have multiple studies on Hypo glandular children, showing weight and muscle gain in patients. And we have 18+ compounds being offered for sale through major drug companies.
Also this whole "The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away." idea doesn't hold water. By that logic bodybuilders wouldn't have tried Clenbuterol, Synthol, etc.... only a couple of years after their invention. Nor would they have been searching for "monkey GH", or reintroducing DNP, or playing with insulin, or plasma expanders, etc....
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I really don't care about Reeves, I am simply stating that we should simply be willing to entertain that Testosterone/Androgen use could predate Zeiger by 5-10 years. Again we have it being discussed in popular culture throughout the late 1940's, Companies selling methyltestosterone by the FDA's own admission by mail order in 1948-1950. We have have multiple studies on Hypo glandular children, showing weight and muscle gain in patients. And we have 18+ compounds being offered for sale through major drug companies.
Also this whole "The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away." idea doesn't hold water. By that logic bodybuilders wouldn't have tried Clenbuterol, Synthol, etc.... only a couple of years after their invention. Nor would they have been searching for "monkey GH", or reintroducing DNP, or playing with insulin, or plasma expanders, etc....
I really don't care about Reeves, I am simply stating that we should simply be willing to entertain that Testosterone/Androgen use could predate Zeiger by 5-10 years. Again we have it being discussed in popular culture throughout the late 1940's, Companies selling methyltestosterone by the FDA's own admission by mail order in 1948-1950. We have have multiple studies on Hypo glandular children, showing weight and muscle gain in patients. And we have 18+ compounds being offered for sale through major drug companies.
idea doesn't hold water
To use your own words against you. The idea of any strength athlete using PEDs before Zeigler holds no water. You set the bar of proof so low you've already convinced yourself it's a probable , when in reality it's simply not.
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Schmoe logic - "can't be proved through a muscle magazine, therefore it couldn't of existed".
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Schmoe logic - "can't be proved through a muscle magazine, therefore it couldn't of existed".
lol now you're getting mad ;D ;)
Come back when you have some proof I'll be here waiting 8)
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Naw, it's more amusement. It's sorta like when you watch those documentaries on ancient Amazon tribes, etc...., and you can't believe that they can't comprehend something you take for granted :).
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Naw, it's more amusement. It's sorta like when you watch those documentaries on ancient Amazon tribes, etc...., and you can't believe that they can't comprehend something you take for granted :).
You have proof yet? ??? still waiting ;)
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I wish I could flash back 57 years and was siting once again with Steve, Scott, Bill Smith and Mickey Hargitay at Rand's having a beer. And we could flash forward to today if only to see this and similar threads arguing over Steve's "natural" physique. What a laugh we would have.
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Plus you think someone valuing his body as much as Reeves would throw some unknown shit in his body with barely any science behind it?
Ah yes, the good ole days when everybody was so conscious about what they were putting into their bodies.
(http://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/files/1-prescription-drugs-images/advertisement-for-cocaine-toothache-drops-1885-picture.jpg)
(http://data7.blog.de/media/235/6000235_81330ff3c5_m.jpeg)
(http://gogd.tjs-labs.com/pictures/camel-life-11-25-1946-999-M5.jpg)
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Are we really debating a guy's natty status from the 1950's? Is that where we are at now with this whole natty/juiced debate? I think I'll take the word of a former trainee/partner of Reeves like yourself than all this other speculation bullshit. Reeves had world class genetics, he wasn't otherworldly big. I know how good my genetics are and have seen and were friend's with guy's that were given even better gifts. All this coming from a small area in Southeastern CT. So what could someone achieve with the top 2-3% bb genetics naturally? Plus you think someone valuing his body as much as Reeves would throw some unknown shit in his body with barely any science behind it? Would he have used in the 70's if he was in his peak then? Prob, if he wanted to compete at the highest level. Who knows, this thread is a bunch of garbage. Same 'ole people on this site who never achieved anything worthwhile naturally in the gym and have to tear everyone else down. This coming from someone who uses gear but only aftet I trained 7 yrs natty. I would go back to my natural build any day of the week, too. I could prob be even better than I was knowing everything I know about diet and protein shakes being garbage. Good to know things don't change after all these yrs on getbig, if I can't do it no one can.
It was Mr. MB who trained with Steve Reeves, not me, though I wish could have learned directly from the master. Unfortunately, Reeves was before my time.
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I want to see the bodies of these men who claiming Steve was on steroids. They must look like shit.
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;D
STEVE "HERCULES" REEVES
Bodybuilding Legend Joins Muscular Development
"For over 30 years I've remained silent and just watched the transition that bodybuilding has made. And in my opinion, and in the opinions of many who have talked to me, bodybuilding, as it's practiced and promoted today, is dying--and dying fast.
Well, it's a good thing! Never in my life would I have imagined that such a terrific sport would be filled with so-called "champions" who are held up as heroes and adulated for physiques that are built with drugs. What kind of "real" bodybuilding champion is that?
Since when did a distinction need to be made between a "natural" bodybuilder and "chemical bodybuilder"? When I built my body, you were a bodybuilder--period! And you did it without drugs, by training hard, eating right and getting the right amount of rest.
It disturbs me to no end that today's muscle magazines are filled with stories on this-and-that champion's routine, when all the while the average man and woman are misled because these same magazines won't dare print the truth! And the truth is that these "champions" built their physiques after spending tens of thousands of dollars on steroids, growth hormone, insulin and whatever else happens to be the latest rage.
The public has been deceived for too long and it's time someone takes a stand. I will!
I want you to go to any newsstand during any given month and you'll find these same muscle magazines with cover blurbs and articles about the latest drugs. Open them up and you'll find page after page about drugs, how to take them and what to avoid. All this is the lie of supposedly giving their readers the information they say they want to know!
Recently, someone showed me a magazine put out by a young man in Colorado, and I was shocked. Unbelievably, bodybuilding is the only "sport" that has a magazine devoted to drugs! And this magazine promotes this character they call "the guru," who answers your most-asked drug-related questions.
After seeing photos of this fella, it makes you wonder; if drugs were so good, why didn't they work for him? Hey, and he's supposedly the "expert," whom people who want to know turn to! Wake up, friends! When and where will all this nonsense end? The other magazines won't stop it--and the bodybuilders sure as hell won't because they're stuck; either you keep taking drugs and getting bigger and more cut, or you won't win contests or get an endorsement contract.
Never in my life have I used any drug to build my body. Never! I wasn't born with the physique I built; I worked hard for it. Yet, I did it naturally. Sure, I didn't build it up to the size of today's drug-enhanced physiques, but I was after symmetry and proportion, and I achieved it in a package that allowed me to win the Mr. America and Mr. Universe titles, along with giving me a successful film career. Even today, at 71 years of age, I work on my ranch, work out and would be willing to bet that I could out-power walk many of those bloated muscle druggies 40 years my junior!
To me, a bodybuilder is someone who not only builds his body naturally, but has functional, real-world muscle that can be used at any time, and will help the person perform any activity better.
When it came to my body--the body you saw--and the condition I had, that was the body I had 24 hours a day, 365 days a year! I was not some bloated, out-of-shape, easily winded giant whose razor-sharp physique could only stay that way for a few weeks before or after a contest. (I can just hear the directive from the magazine editor to the photographers, "Hurry and snap those pictures before we lose him!")
When Steve Blechman, Publisher and Editor-In-Chief of NATURAL MD, spoke to me about his vision for taking the sport back to its natural roots, I applauded him. For others in the industry have had the opportunity and have "talked the talk," but no one has had the guts to take a stand for what's right. Blechman has. And that is why, after all these years, I've decided to help the sport I love get back to its proper place. One of the ways I intend to do that is by writing a monthly column for NATURAL MD magazine.
Something needs to be done now; we have no choice. For where there is no vision the people perish; and where there is no vision for the future of bodybuilding, bodybuilding will perish.
Many people may ask if there is another reason for me coming out of retirement to help save the sport. The answer is no, and I want to make one thing crystal clear: My passion for what I do has never been driven by money. I retired at the peak of my movie career, so that I could live life on my own terms.
All my life, I have never answered to anyone and I'm not about to do it now. The only thing I can give you in the coming months--through the pages of this magazine--is honesty and the truth about building your body without drugs.
I will teach you everything you will need to know to build the body you truly want. That is, to build it naturally and without any drugs. If you want to look like the other bodybuilders and want the latest drug information, then go to the other magazines. I'm only interested in talking about one thing: real bodybuilding. If that's what you want, then my friend, welcome home!"
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Another good read about the history of PEDs
http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/05275/581242.stm
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Points taken , however this information isn't exactly some vague reference in the back of a magazine , it's pretty well documented over the years. There is a wealth of information out there and the genesis of athletes in the United States using PEDs begins with Ziegler it's not debatable.
First link is a great read.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1993/JSH2001/jsh2001b.pdf
http://articles.philly.com/2002-10-20/sports/25352734_1_steroids-york-barbell-chuck-yesalis
An article from a philly magazine and another from some sports history journal that shows Ziegler was an inveterate liar along with a lot of the bodybuilders self reporting what was going on 30 years later.Neither claim that west coast athletes weren't using testosterone. The one about Zeigler says the Russians were using test as early as 1952. Neither of these are some sort of serious historical study that concludes test wasn't being used earlier than Zeiglers charlatanesque experiments with Dbol.
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Some people will re-write anything to justify their own inadequacies and weaknesses.
There was only one Steve Reeves. There are however a poop load of drug addled whiners in the world. Some of whom post their pain here in this thread.
Pussies.
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An article from a philly magazine and another from some sports history journal that shows Ziegler was an inveterate liar along with a lot of the bodybuilders self reporting what was going on 30 years later.Neither claim that west coast athletes weren't using testosterone. The one about Zeigler says the Russians were using test as early as 1952. Neither of these are some sort of serious historical study that concludes test wasn't being used earlier than Zeiglers charlatanesque experiments with Dbol.
It doesn't claim that west coast athletes weren't using testosterone? NOT how it works , if you're making the claim , back it up. if you think the west coast bodybuilders were indeed using testosterone PROVE IT ;) the burden of proof lies on YOU making the claim.
Prove to me there is a detailed history of strength athletes using PEDs in the United States before Ziegler and good fucking luck ;D
Wait let me guess , We know the Russians were using as early as 1952 maybe Reeves flew to the U.S.S.R to get injections lmfao
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It doesn't claim that west coast athletes weren't using testosterone? NOT how it works , if you're making the claim , back it up. if you think the west coast bodybuilders were indeed using testosterone PROVE IT ;) the burden of proof lies on YOU making the claim.
Prove to me there is a detailed history of strength athletes using PEDs in the United States before Ziegler and good fucking luck ;D
Wait let me guess , We know the Russians were using as early as 1952 maybe Reeves flew to the U.S.S.R to get injections lmfao
Earlier in this thread is a post that is as equally well sourced as your magazine article or collection of self reporting anecdotes about a scam going on in York Pa. It said west coast bodybuilders were reported to be experimenting with test.
I really don't need anything more than the thumbnail from that video tribute to Reeves that shows him standing on stage with test bloat.
BTW, who cares about "strength athletes" we are talking about bodybuilders. Maybe go back to your old canard that test doesn't work. That was my favorite, especially after you post an article that says the Russians were using test. Yeah because it didn't work.
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Earlier in this thread is a post that is as equally well sourced as your magazine article or collection of self reporting anecdotes about a scam going on in York Pa. It said west coast bodybuilders were reported to be experimenting with test.
I really don't need anything more than the thumbnail from that video tribute to Reeves that shows him standing on stage with test bloat.
BTW, who cares about "strength athletes" we are talking about bodybuilders. Maybe go back to your old canard that test doesn't work. That was my favorite, especially after you post an article that says the Russians were using test. Yeah because it didn't work.
Earlier in this thread is a post that is as equally well sourced as your magazine article or collection of self reporting anecdotes about a scam going on in York Pa. It said west coast bodybuilders were reported to be experimenting with test.
NONSENSE !!! equally well sourced ::) I provided multiple links with converging evidence , with dates , times , people , places , etc NOT some vague references , the links I posted has detailed information. You know why you can't do the same because there is NO history of PEDs in this country before then if there were we wouldn't be having this ' conversation '
I really don't need anything more than the thumbnail from that video tribute to Reeves that shows him standing on stage with test bloat.
I know you don't need much at all to form your ' opinions ' LMAO ' test bloat ' lol
BTW, who cares about "strength athletes" we are talking about bodybuilders. Maybe go back to your old canard that test doesn't work. That was my favorite, especially after you post an article that says the Russians were using test. Yeah because it didn't work.
Provide me with proof that bodybuilders were taking PEDs before 1950 in Reeves time , there is NO history of weightlifters or bodybuilders taking PEDs before Dr John Ziegler in the late 1950s , there just isn't the earliest that bodybuilders may have ( key word ) is 1958/59 and that's speculation at best.
You're right the Russians were using test with positive results and a lot of health problems , the earliest that was speculated is 1952 , it may have been earlier we don't know , but we do know about the time-line in the United States , and if you have something that predates Ziegler and CIBA and York prove it and we both know you can't.
You've made up your mind and set the bar so low on what constitutes proof that you don't care about facts , that's the difference between you and I.
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This thread has become a microcosm of America as we know it today. Polarized, uneducated, conspiracy freaks, and plain dumbass funny. Scary part is that these people vote and raise children. The "test bloat" comment has to be the funniest I have seen to date on Get Big. Thank you poster.
I hope this thread never ends. When I was a kid I read the morning comics in the L.A. Times. Now I have this.........
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Steve Reeves will always be my Old School Hero. Along with park and Pearl...MEN
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This thread has become a microcosm of America as we know it today. Polarized, uneducated, conspiracy freaks, and plain dumbass funny. Scary part is that these people vote and raise children. The "test bloat" comment has to be the funniest I have seen to date on Get Big. Thank you poster.
I hope this thread never ends. When I was a kid I read the morning comics in the L.A. Times. Now I have this.........
Did you ever try steroids Mr MB?
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Yes. 1983 (age 43) I was competing natural and getting my ass kicked. 193 was my best on stage weight. I went to Dr. W in Van Nuys Ca. who was taking care of the L.A. Dodgers, the L.A. Kings, most of the L.A. BB elite, visiting pro wrestlers and other sports celebs. (his waiting room was a who's who) He had a weekly protocol everyone got...250 Test Cyp with 200 Deca. No more no less. I upped my protein from 200 to 300 gms a day and I gained a quick 20 pounds and started to pick up titles. . Remember the shit was 100% legal at the time.
It took a year and off I went. I upped the Test to 750, added in Squibb EQ which I got from a local vet in a huge bottle, Anavar by the handful which I ordered out of Italy in huge pop out sheets, injectable Dbol and Winny which I picked up in Tijuana and my No. 1 fav. Primo Acetate from Germany. Anadrol gave me adult acne and a rapid heart beat. My new best on stage weight 235.
I stopped everything in 1990 except Test Cyp 250 weekly which I still do today at age 74. With a Docs prescription. I pole vault out of bed every morning. So yes for 31 years non stop. Health excellent with a few prescriptions, donate blood every 6 weeks to keep RBC down and take a baby aspirin t keep blood thin.
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Thanks for that detailed reply. Just shows what the pharmaceuticals can do even when starting in your 40's.
Good that your healthy in your 70's.
The testosterone supplement properties detailed in the 1940's is now mainstream treatment for middle aged plus men so I guess Paul DeKruif's 1945 book contents have become socially acceptable in the USA. This is not the case in the UK but Scotsmen like me never would need any extra
Testosterone anyway. :D
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This thread has become a microcosm of America as we know it today. Polarized, uneducated, conspiracy freaks, and plain dumbass funny. Scary part is that these people vote and raise children. The "test bloat" comment has to be the funniest I have seen to date on Get Big. Thank you poster.
I hope this thread never ends. When I was a kid I read the morning comics in the L.A. Times. Now I have this.........
I was actually surprised at that picture of Reeves with test bloat myself. Most of the others I've seen he seems leaner in, but that shot of him on stage makes him look watery and puffy. Classic test. But despite all the evidence that it works fine for bbing including from even about 3 posts up, something that clearly works and was available in the 40s was not being used by bodybuilders then. Pure horseshit. And a guy denying it doesn't mean shit to me either. Shawn Ray's own brother told me that Shawn didn't use steroids the same night Shawn competed in his first Night of the Champions. His own brother didn't know.
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We will never know for sure, but if he was indeed using steroids he had a big incentive to keep it a secret as he would not want to lose his edge over other bodybuilders who were natural and didn't have a clue at the time, obviously .
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We will never know for sure, but if he was indeed using steroids he had a big incentive to keep it a secret as he would not want to lose his edge over other bodybuilders who were natural and didn't have a clue at the time, obviously .
Fuck off pumpster ::)
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Fuck off pumpster ::)
aren't you the creep who posted pictures of some random dumbbells as proof that you work out? lol
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aren't you the creep who posted pictures of some random dumbbells as proof that you work out? lol
This is my proof I work out ;)
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This is my proof I work out ;)
Where's that, Phoenix area? Lots of good places to hike and contemplate test bloat.
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Sedona AZ. Home of test bloat, quack shaman, herbal tea body wraps, great hiking, and magnetic truth.
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Sedona AZ. Home of test bloat, quack shaman, herbal tea body wraps, great hiking, and magnetic truth.
^^
You forgot burritos, too... :D