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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Simple Simon on June 08, 2014, 10:59:48 AM
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I have seen this mentioned a couple of times now and posed the question in the steroid forum, I have deleted it in there and think it warrants discussion here
So heres the question
If Im gaining fat on 3500 cals a day then presumably Im eating enough to be gaining the maximum amount of muscle in that time frame providing my training and everything else is at optimum levels.
The fat gain is just the energy that I haven't expended being stored.
How will eating 6000 cals help me add more muscle?
I am eating more than enough protein to initiate muscle repair and growth all the extra cals are in the form of fats and carbs.
Can someone explain it please?
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Im no expert in this but if someone is getting fat on 3500 then he already is taking in more than enough?
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Im no expert in this but if someone is getting fat on 3500 then he already is taking in more than enough?
Thats my thought as well.
I can understand if its all carbs and fats , then its likely muscle gain wont be optimum.
But as stated if you are banging in 250gms Protein then it shouldn't be an issue.
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Perhaps you are missing the obvious synergistic metabolic effects of mass calories? Remember Weider Mass 5000? There you go.
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my thought? drink more water, add fiber, walk more. create a faster flowing internal system & bump up the appetitie and metabolism with the added activity.
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Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.
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Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.
Agreed.
They take two years out and eat like fucking pigs and blow up, they then diet down again and have a ten pound gain.
Ironically they would have gained exactly the same eating a tad over maintenance every day.
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Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.
Wow, good post. Agreed.
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Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.
bulking CAN work for the dude that's perpetually skinny. The problem for most is that we cannot stop at 25 pounds of bulk. We have to go 75 pounds because the first 25 felt so good lol.
Bulking helped me tremendously. Without it, I'd still be 130 pounds like every other male in my family. I'm 190 pounds and I'm looking like Ronnie Coleman at family dinner lol. BUT I went overboard, and added about 90 pounds instead of the 40 my body needed. Took almost a year to get all that fat off slowly.
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Good post Trainer. Modern bodybuilding bulking is bullshit.
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Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.
Look at the Levrone and Phil Method...
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I don't think anyone needs to eat as much as 3,500 calories per day in order to grow muscle. You can grow fat on that number, but there is nothing that suggests that your muscle volume will increase.
Everyone has their physiological limits, the plateau that they will inevitably hit due to normal human growth capacity. Some will find that genes dictate how much they grow, while others will defy the laws of physiology by introducing steroids and growth hormone into the mix.
Naturals reach their limits after various years of training and proper dieting. They then graduate into hormone use and slowly, but surely will reach their limits as well. Those that push too hard, could end up causing problems for themselves. After all, there is only so much the human heart can sustain.
Hopefully, one of our resident experts in human physiology can chime in on this.
"1"
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I am very interested in this question as well as never wanted to pile on 'pointless' weight leaving you looking and feeling like utter shit just to have to diet down to see what gains you made. Much rather see what the mimimum amount of calories and protein it is necessary to consume to keep adding lean tissue.
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I am very interested in this question as well as never wanted to pile on 'pointless' weight leaving you looking and feeling like utter shit just to have to diet down to see what gains you made. Much rather see what the mimimum amount of calories and protein it is necessary to consume to keep adding lean tissue.
I want to see if there is a scientific or broscientific explanation to justify the higher calories.
I dont believe it exists.
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I don't think it does mate but it's a good excuse to eat like a pig! I suppose one of the great things about steroids is they allow you to maintain muscle mass while in a calorie deficit, ie dieting for a show. I suppose actually adding quality tissue can be done in conjunction and at the same rate as just over the minimum you require to maintain and before you start getting fat. I remember studying steroids for years before ever trying them but the importance of this question is one of the key elements in getting the most out of what you take.
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Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.
You say a lot of stupid crap, but I agree with this.
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Just eat slightly more -say, 200 kcals- above maintenance level. Weigh yourself every 1-2 weeks on the same day & time and check the mirror. Adjust your intake when needed, it's not that complicated.
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You say a lot of stupid crap, but I agree with this.
I think he was trying to troll but it backfired, he posted the truth in error ;D
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Just eat slightly more -say, 200 kcals- above maintenance level. Weigh yourself every 1-2 weeks on the same day & time and check the mirror. Adjust your intake when needed, it's not that complicated.
It would appear its easier to just eat like a pig and then shed 60lbs come contest time.
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It would appear its easier to just eat like a pig and then shed 60lbs come contest time.
Much easier, but losing all that excess fat comes at a price, you will most likely lose more muscle in your cut as well. I prefer it 10-12% max and I still eat like a pig, well horse: 4500 kcals.
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Much easier, but losing all that excess fat comes at a price, you will most likely lose more muscle in your cut as well. I prefer it 10-12% max and I still eat like a pig, well horse: 4500 kcals.
That deserves a thread of its own as well
I think thats mostly a fallacy.
Its presented as an excuse by permabulkers when they finally diet down and realise they didn't have as much muscle as they originally thought.
See CSWOL.
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That deserves a thread of its own as well
I think thats mostly a fallacy.
Its presented as an excuse by permabulkers when they finally diet down and realise they didn't have as much muscle as they originally thought.
See CSWOL.
It shouldn't have to be this way, but the thing is that most permas don't take the time, nor have the knowledge, nor have the willpower. The body can only burn 1-2 pounds of pure fat in a week without the use of stimulants, so that means roughly 40 weeks in your example of 60 pounds excess fat with week-to-week adjusting.
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I think he was trying to troll but it backfired, he posted the truth in error ;D
Truth, but it is clear that Foozle needs to up Trainer's good post count to 2 now. No way around it.
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I think he was trying to troll but it backfired, he posted the truth in error ;D
I stopped trying to determine who is an actual troll here years ago. The amount of sheer retardation I see seriously put off as training and diet advice creates such a horrible ratio of useful info to crap here. And the guys that are legit are either A) ran off B) or know how to train/diet but say some bat shit crazy stuff outside of that so no one listens.
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Better to be small than fat.
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Better to be small than fat.
like your
boobs
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Classic permabulkers rationalization for hitting the all you can eat buffet weekly 'gotta eat big to get big'
AAS is magic pixie dust that apparently prevents your body storing excess calories as bodyfat
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It shouldn't have to be this way, but the thing is that most permas don't take the time, nor have the knowledge, nor have the willpower. The body can only burn 1-2 pounds of pure fat in a week without the use of stimulants, so that means roughly 40 weeks in your example of 60 pounds excess fat with week-to-week adjusting.
Nobody loses 60 pounds to diet down. Probably closer to 30-40 pounds fat and the rest is water
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I really thought there would have been more responses from seasoned veterans here.
Seems this will remain a quandry for a while yet.
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I really thought there would have been more responses from seasoned veterans here.
Seems this will remain a quandry for a while yet.
Shame Galeniko isn't here. I am sure he would have something pretty colourful to say on the matter!
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I dont think there is going to be a justification for excess cals over maintainance over and above maybe 300 cals a day.
Science or broscience isnt going to be able to justify it.
Eating 5 or 6000 cals a day is idiotic when your BMR is 3000 cals.
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I dont think there is going to be a justification for excess cals over maintainance over and above maybe 300 cals a day.
Science or broscience isnt going to be able to justify it.
Eating 5 or 6000 cals a day is idiotic when your BMR is 3000 cals.
Bingo, heavy over eating is just impulsive and impatient behavior for wannabebigrats.
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I dont think there is going to be a justification for excess cals over maintainance over and above maybe 300 cals a day.
Science or broscience isnt going to be able to justify it.
Eating 5 or 6000 cals a day is idiotic when your BMR is 3000 cals.
Yeah I can't see the reason it is advocated so heavily within the industry and adopted as the done thing. No point putting on unnecessary fat which contributes nothing to the physique and will only have to be removed later. Another one of those bro science myths like you need grams of gear to grow.... ::)
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I have seen this mentioned a couple of times now and posed the question in the steroid forum, I have deleted it in there and think it warrants discussion here
So heres the question
If Im gaining fat on 3500 cals a day then presumably Im eating enough to be gaining the maximum amount of muscle in that time frame providing my training and everything else is at optimum levels.
The fat gain is just the energy that I haven't expended being stored.
How will eating 6000 cals help me add more muscle?
I am eating more than enough protein to initiate muscle repair and growth all the extra cals are in the form of fats and carbs.
Can someone explain it please?
Steroids increase the amount of protein your body can process... That's its primary effect. So instead of storing fat you gain more by eating more. That's it. Very simple answer no secret.
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Steroids increase the amount of protein your body can process... That's its primary effect. So instead of storing fat you gain more by eating more. That's it. Very simple answer no secret.
Its an answer all right, just not one to the question that was posed.
Thanks anyway.
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Is it possible, through stupendous usage of anabolics, to get your body to the point where it could use 6000 kcals for lean tissue?
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Is it possible, through stupendous usage of anabolics, to get your body to the point where it could use 6000 kcals for lean tissue?
Did you just blurt that out randomly or do you have anything to back it up?
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The heavier you are (fat or muscle) the more energy you need to maintain it.
If you're a twink and eat 5000 calories you will eventually become a fat twink.
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Its an answer all right, just not one to the question that was posed.
Thanks anyway.
How do you figure? Increased protein = increased calories right?
Now if you mean permabulkers eating McDonald's claiming they need more calories, then no it's not the answer.
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Better to be small than fat.
This
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Forget the diet to "grow big"....you need to up the dose lol
I take minimal gear, if I eat more I get fat, period. I have a thin balance of muscle and BF within the dose im on. If I want more muscle the only way for me is to up the dose....this way I get away with eating more and actually get bigger not fatter.
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That's what trenbolone is for. It will increase solid gains without using more cal. That's why farmers love it. The same with humans. More tren =more muscle without adding cal.
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Forget the diet to "grow big"....you need to up the dose lol
I take minimal gear, if I eat more I get fat, period. I have a thin balance of muscle and BF within the dose im on. If I want more muscle the only way for me is to up the dose....this way I get away with eating more and actually get bigger not fatter.
That's what it is.!!
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Better to be small than fat.
Whats even worst; to the eye of the average chick better to b small than muscular or fat.
WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Whats even worst; to the eye of the average chick better to b small than muscular or fat.
WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Sadly true... :-\
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Did you just blurt that out randomly or do you have anything to back it up?
Well, I was thinking of the primacy of the number "six", you see. 6000 kcals and 6 grams of gear. It seems rather "sweet".
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Well, I was thinking of the primacy of the number "six", you see. 6000 kcals and 6 grams of gear. It seems rather "sweet".
Hahahaha!
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Hahahaha!
If I had a dollar for every time Wolf posted the infamous billboard....I'd be filthy rich lol
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If I had a dollar for every time Wolf posted the infamous billboard....I'd be filthy rich lol
lol It never disappoints I haven't done it in a while but I couldn't resist at the aj post. I was set up ;D
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That's what trenbolone is for. It will increase solid gains without using more cal. That's why farmers love it. The same with humans. More tren =more muscle without adding cal.
Yes, exactly, when using tren I can gain literally hundreds of lbs of lean mass in mere months by standing in a field all day eating nothing but grass.
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Yes, exactly, when using tren I can gain literally hundreds of lbs of lean mass in mere months by standing in a field all day eating nothing but grass.
You're grassfed? Oh you fancy
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i dont know why so many people are anxious to grow in a calorie surplus, when they can lose fat, and grow in a calorie deficit instead.
i guess carrying around all that fat masquerading as muscle justifies in their own minds the necessity to do so.
for all the 'studies' and 'science' involved in this 'sport' there certainly are a lot of misconceptions, and ineffective ways of gaining tissue. you'd actually think given all the science and studies we have everyone would be walking around looking like shredded beasts, but this just isnt so.
wonder why that is. :D
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i dont know why so many people are anxious to grow in a calorie surplus, when they can lose fat, and grow in a calorie deficit instead.
i guess carrying around all that fat masquerading as muscle justifies in their own minds the necessity to do so.
for all the 'studies' and 'science' involved in this 'sport' there certainly are a lot of misconceptions, and ineffective ways of gaining tissue. you'd actually think given all the science and studies we have everyone would be walking around looking like shredded beasts, but this just isnt so.
wonder why that is. :D
It's like a mental disease. For 30+ years, I have subscribed to the "gain muscle only in caloric surplus" school. It is so hard to talk myself out of it. Even now, at the end of the day, I subconsciously add up my macros and if I feel protein-deficient, I will have a fucking protein shake at night.
It's a sickness, I tell ya!
When's the new book gonna be ready?
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If you mega dose, you can eat way more without getting fat and you'll also gain more muscle.You might die sooner, but at least you'll be dying for all of us.
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If you mega dose, you can eat way more without getting fat and you'll also gain more muscle.You might die sooner, but at least you'll be dying for all of us.
Thanks for the broscience explanation.
Can you explain how Anabolic steroids stop you getting fat if you are eating excess calories?
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Thanks for the broscience explanation.
Can you explain how Anabolic steroids stop you getting fat if you are eating excess calories?
More drugs, particularly tren and hgh (the higher the dose, the greater the metabolism), will make things much more difficult to gain fat.
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How can you possibly fail to eat enough when there is white rice, the perfect unbloofy energy source.
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More drugs, particularly tren and hgh (the higher the dose, the greater the metabolism), will make things much more difficult to gain fat.
And the same with 'light' compounds like test, bold and dbol, even in low dosages. I needed to go up to 4000 in order to keep my weight and 4500 was the sweet spot for a slow weight gain.
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And the same with 'light' compounds like test, bold and dbol, even in low dosages. I needed to go up to 4000 in order to keep my weight and 4500 was the sweet spot for a slow weight gain.
Yup, that's the truth.
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And the same with 'light' compounds like test, bold and dbol, even in low dosages. I needed to go up to 4000 in order to keep my weight and 4500 was the sweet spot for a slow weight gain.
That calorific amount is based on your muscle mass, BF% and daily energy output.
So, you can make gains by adding 500 cals per day.
Do you think you would gain any more muscle eating 1500 cals per day over the 4000?
Which is the basis of the thread.
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That calorific amount is based on your muscle mass, BF% and daily energy output.
So, you can make gains by adding 500 cals per day.
Do you think you would gain any more muscle eating 1500 cals per day over the 4000?
Which is the basis of the thread.
No but I like shiny objects and spartacus
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No but I like shiny objects and spartacus
People with special needs tend to.
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It's like a mental disease. For 30+ years, I have subscribed to the "gain muscle only in caloric surplus" school. It is so hard to talk myself out of it. Even now, at the end of the day, I subconsciously add up my macros and if I feel protein-deficient, I will have a fucking protein shake at night.
It's a sickness, I tell ya!
When's the new book gonna be ready?
me too bro. we ALL have been told what to do for so long and just took it at face value for so long when someone comes along and says, hey guys you don't need that many cals to create lean tissue, or you can create lean tissue in a deficit the first thing we are programmed to say given what we 'know' is not 'hmm wow that sounds interesting in going to try it' but 'IMPOSSIBLE!'
:D
it's funny cause I ran into this yet again w the creation of this training system. 'it's IMPOSSIBLE!' 'it won't work!'
people need to stop being adamant that things don't work, and open their minds to new ways of thinking and thereby better themselves.
I'm working on it now dude. I'm excited to get it out. it's mind blowing- in the novelty of it all. it's going to bend minds. you'll be screaming 'its IMPOSSILE!' inside and that's what I want.
cause after you put it down and apply what I tell you, you'll have conquered the impossible.
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me too bro. we ALL have been told what to do for so long and just took it at face value for so long when someone comes along and says, hey guys you don't need that many cals to create lean tissue, or you can create lean tissue in a deficit the first thing we are programmed to say given what we 'know' is not 'hmm wow that sounds interesting in going to try it' but 'IMPOSSIBLE!'
:D
it's funny cause I ran into this yet again w the creation of this training system. 'it's IMPOSSIBLE!' 'it won't work!'
people need to stop being adamant that things don't work, and open their minds to new ways of thinking and thereby better themselves.
I'm working on it now dude. I'm excited to get it out. it's mind blowing- in the novelty of it all. it's going to bend minds. you'll be screaming 'its IMPOSSILE!' inside and that's what I want.
cause after you put it down and apply what I tell you, you'll have conquered the impossible.
It would be great if there was a section specifically dealing with "low dose" gear users. We are a repressed minority.
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That calorific amount is based on your muscle mass, BF% and daily energy output.
So, you can make gains by adding 500 cals per day.
Do you think you would gain any more muscle eating 1500 cals per day over the 4000?
Which is the basis of the thread.
There are various BMR formulas, like the great Harris Benedict equation, but the problem is that all of them are based on individuals who don't take certain medicines (or 'medicines', lol), so they can function as a starting point, but you prob have to increase your calls with at least 500-1500 (rough estimate) above those BMR estimations, depending on your compounds & dosages.
Drugs or no drugs, there's no need to heavy overeat, but again, there's a difference between a natural and an enhanced BMR.
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And the same with 'light' compounds like test, bold and dbol, even in low dosages. I needed to go up to 4000 in order to keep my weight and 4500 was the sweet spot for a slow weight gain.
You must be a monster and/or a construction worker. 4000 calories is quite a lot, to need to keep one's weight steady
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You must be a monster and/or a construction worker. 4000 calories is quite a lot, to need to keep one's weight steady
Only 210 here, about 10-12% bf, normal job, 4x weights & 1-2x cardio
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Only 210 here, about 10-12% bf, normal job, 4x weights & 1-2x cardio
Roughly my stats and my maintenance level is about 2500-2800 kcal/day. I don't think I could eat 4000 clean calories if my life depended on it.
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Roughly my stats and my maintenance level is about 2500-2800 kcal/day. I don't think I could eat 4000 clean calories if my life depended on it.
3 rice meals, 4 oat meals, 4 eggs, 2 small shakes and a cup of cottage cheese makes 4500 kcals, it's not that hard for me. While cooking in the evening, I prep my other meals for the next day.
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I don't think anyone needs to eat as much as 3,500 calories per day in order to grow muscle. You can grow fat on that number, but there is nothing that suggests that your muscle volume will increase.
Everyone has their physiological limits, the plateau that they will inevitably hit due to normal human growth capacity. Some will find that genes dictate how much they grow, while others will defy the laws of physiology by introducing steroids and growth hormone into the mix.
Naturals reach their limits after various years of training and proper dieting. They then graduate into hormone use and slowly, but surely will reach their limits as well. Those that push too hard, could end up causing problems for themselves. After all, there is only so much the human heart can sustain.
Hopefully, one of our resident experts in human physiology can chime in on this.
"1"
I maintain at 2700-3000 calories currently @ 73kg bodyweight...You would be surprised how many people out there need 4000+ just to maintain their bodyweight. "Fast metabolism" is bullshit as well, it's just about amount of muscle and intensity of your training. Deadlift two times per week, squat 4 times per week with high volume, olympic lifts 3x per week and your energy expedinture will go through the roof. Give me 4000+ and I will just get fat.
There are genetic wonders, very few of them, who just won't gain fat no matter what but for everyone else out there, it's a simple matter of how heavy your workouts really are and how much muscle tissue you carry.
Surplus depends on what you take, if you are natural or on hrt anything more than 300 calories surplus is an overkill. Train to get better in the gym - more sets, more reps, more weight and you will add muscle. Never focus on your bodyweight.
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That calorific amount is based on your muscle mass, BF% and daily energy output.
So, you can make gains by adding 500 cals per day.
Do you think you would gain any more muscle eating 1500 cals per day over the 4000?
Which is the basis of the thread.
That's true too. All those factors play a role in metabolic rate. I'm only on TRT these days and I have more room for error with my diet than I did 40lbs ago natural.
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It would be great if there was a section specifically dealing with "low dose" gear users. We are a repressed minority.
it will apply universally to everyone, juiced or not.
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would love to trade places with some studs ITT, I train 5x a week for 2 hours a session and weigh 230 but need to drop under 2000 to lose appreciable weight
maybe I should give the Jason Blaha 'can eat unlimited carbs' on tren theory a try, since it worked so well on his potato looking body
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Roughly my stats and my maintenance level is about 2500-2800 kcal/day. I don't think I could eat 4000 clean calories if my life depended on it.
Same here....205, lift weights 6-7x a week, cardio 4-5x a week, and I need around 2500 calories or so to maintain weight.
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People with special needs tend to.
:D :D