Cant eat enough to grow....

[Simple Simon]

I have seen this mentioned a couple of times now and posed the question in the steroid forum, I have deleted it in there and think it warrants discussion here

So heres the question

If Im gaining fat on 3500 cals a day then presumably Im eating enough to be gaining the maximum amount of muscle in that time frame providing my training and everything else is at optimum levels.
The fat gain is just the energy that I haven't expended being stored.
How will eating 6000 cals help me add more muscle?

I am eating more than enough protein to initiate muscle repair and growth all the extra cals are in the form of fats and carbs.

Can someone explain it please?

[Henda]

Im no expert in this but if someone is getting fat on 3500 then he already is taking in more than enough?

[Simple Simon]

Im no expert in this but if someone is getting fat on 3500 then he already is taking in more than enough?

Thats my thought as well.
I can understand if its all carbs and fats , then its likely muscle gain wont be optimum.
But as stated if you are banging in 250gms Protein then it shouldn't be an issue.

[_aj_]

Perhaps you are missing the obvious synergistic metabolic effects of mass calories? Remember Weider Mass 5000? There you go.

[240 is Back]

my thought?   drink more water, add fiber, walk more.   create a faster flowing internal system & bump up the appetitie and metabolism with the added activity.

[the trainer]

Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.

[Simple Simon]

Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.

Agreed.
They take two years out and eat like fucking pigs and blow up, they then diet down again and have a ten pound gain.
Ironically they would have gained exactly the same eating a tad over maintenance every day.

[_aj_]

Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.

Wow, good post. Agreed.

[240 is Back]

Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.

bulking CAN work for the dude that's perpetually skinny.  The problem for most is that we cannot stop at 25 pounds of bulk.  We have to go 75 pounds because the first 25 felt so good lol.

Bulking helped me tremendously.  Without it, I'd still be 130 pounds like every other male in my family.  I'm 190 pounds and I'm looking like Ronnie Coleman at family dinner lol.   BUT I went overboard, and added about 90 pounds instead of the 40 my body needed.  Took almost a year to get all that fat off slowly.

[Wiggs]

Good post Trainer. Modern bodybuilding bulking is bullshit.

[Parker]

Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.

Look at the Levrone and Phil Method...

[OneMoreRep]

I don't think anyone needs to eat as much as 3,500 calories per day in order to grow muscle. You can grow fat on that number, but there is nothing that suggests that your muscle volume will increase.

Everyone has their physiological limits, the plateau that they will inevitably hit due to normal human growth capacity. Some will find that genes dictate how much they grow, while others will defy the laws of physiology by introducing steroids and growth hormone into the mix.

Naturals reach their limits after various years of training and proper dieting. They then graduate into hormone use and slowly, but surely will reach their limits as well. Those that push too hard, could end up causing problems for themselves. After all, there is only so much the human heart can sustain.

Hopefully, one of our resident experts in human physiology can chime in on this.

"1"

[Rascal full]

I am very interested in this question as well as never wanted to pile on 'pointless' weight leaving you looking and feeling like utter shit just to have to diet down to see what gains you made. Much rather see what the mimimum amount of calories and protein it is necessary to consume to keep adding lean tissue.

 

[Simple Simon]

I am very interested in this question as well as never wanted to pile on 'pointless' weight leaving you looking and feeling like utter shit just to have to diet down to see what gains you made. Much rather see what the mimimum amount of calories and protein it is necessary to consume to keep adding lean tissue.

 

I want to see if there is a scientific or broscientific explanation to justify the higher calories.
I dont believe it exists.

[Rascal full]

I don't think it does mate but it's a good excuse to eat like a pig! I suppose one of the great things about steroids is they allow you to maintain muscle mass while in a calorie deficit, ie dieting for a show. I suppose actually adding quality tissue can be done in conjunction and at the same rate as just over the minimum you require to maintain and before you start getting fat. I remember studying steroids for years before ever trying them but the importance of this question is one of the key elements in getting the most out of what you take.

[TommyBoy]

Bulking is the biggest bullshit in bodybuilding and its not healthy, guys bulk up 80 pounds of fat then cut only to see that they gained 5 pounds of muscle which they could have gained anyhow if they ate slightly about their baseline calories.

You say a lot of stupid crap, but I agree with this.

[DroppingPlates]

Just eat slightly more -say, 200 kcals- above maintenance level. Weigh yourself every 1-2 weeks on the same day & time and check the mirror. Adjust your intake when needed, it's not that complicated.

[Simple Simon]

You say a lot of stupid crap, but I agree with this.

I think he was trying to troll but it backfired, he posted the truth in error  

[Simple Simon]

Just eat slightly more -say, 200 kcals- above maintenance level. Weigh yourself every 1-2 weeks on the same day & time and check the mirror. Adjust your intake when needed, it's not that complicated.

It would appear its easier to just eat like a pig and then shed 60lbs come contest time.

[DroppingPlates]

It would appear its easier to just eat like a pig and then shed 60lbs come contest time.

Much easier, but losing all that excess fat comes at a price, you will most likely lose more muscle in your cut as well. I prefer it 10-12% max and I still eat like a pig, well horse: 4500 kcals.

[Simple Simon]

Much easier, but losing all that excess fat comes at a price, you will most likely lose more muscle in your cut as well. I prefer it 10-12% max and I still eat like a pig, well horse: 4500 kcals.

That deserves a thread of its own as well
I think thats mostly a fallacy.
Its presented as an excuse by permabulkers when they finally diet down and realise they didn't have as much muscle as they originally thought.

See CSWOL.

[DroppingPlates]

That deserves a thread of its own as well
I think thats mostly a fallacy.
Its presented as an excuse by permabulkers when they finally diet down and realise they didn't have as much muscle as they originally thought.

See CSWOL.

It shouldn't have to be this way, but the thing is that most permas don't take the time, nor have the knowledge, nor have the willpower. The body can only burn 1-2 pounds of pure fat in a week without the use of stimulants, so that means roughly 40 weeks in your example of 60 pounds excess fat with week-to-week adjusting.

[_aj_]

I think he was trying to troll but it backfired, he posted the truth in error  

Truth, but it is clear that Foozle needs to up Trainer's good post count to 2 now. No way around it.

[TommyBoy]

I think he was trying to troll but it backfired, he posted the truth in error  

I stopped trying to determine who is an actual troll here years ago. The amount of sheer retardation I see seriously put off as training and diet advice creates such a horrible ratio of useful info to crap here. And the guys that are legit are either A) ran off B) or know how to train/diet but say some bat shit crazy stuff outside of that so no one listens.

[TEH boob]

Better to be small than fat.