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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: hp31 on September 12, 2014, 05:09:19 PM
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Minnesota Vikings star running back Adrian Peterson has been indicted by a Montgomery County, Texas, grand jury on charges of reckless or negligent injury to a child and a warrant has been issued for his arrest. The team deactivated him for Sunday's home game against the Patriots.
Adrian Peterson's attorney said Friday that Peterson used the same kind of discipline with his child that he experienced growing up in east Texas.
Peterson's attorney, Rusty Hardin, told ESPN.com in a text that Peterson "certainly will" surrender to authorities.
Hardin issued a statement Friday saying his client's conduct "involves using a switch to spank his son." According to a report by Sports Radio 610 in Houston, Peterson removed the leaves of a tree branch, which he referred to in a police report as "a switch," to strike the child.
"This indictment follows Adrian's full cooperation with authorities who have been looking into this matter. Adrian is a loving father who used his judgment as a parent to discipline his son," Hardin said in his statement. "He used the same kind of discipline with his child that he experienced as a child growing up in east Texas. Adrian has never hidden from what happened."
Hardin said Peterson has cooperated fully with authorities and voluntarily testified before the grand jury for several hours.
"Adrian will address the charges with the same respect and responsiveness he has brought to this inquiry from its beginning," Hardin said. "It is important to remember that Adrian never intended to harm his son and deeply regrets the unintentional injury."
The Vikings released a statement earlier Friday saying they're in the process of gathering information about Peterson's legal situation and deferred comment to Hardin..
Last October, Peterson's 2-year-old son died in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, after being allegedly assaulted by a man who was dating the boy's mother. Peterson learned only two months earlier that he was the boy's father. The man who assaulted the boy, Joseph Robert Patterson, was charged with murder and manslaughter.
The Houston station, citing law enforcement sources, said Peterson told police that the incident -- he referred to it as a "whooping" -- occurred in Spring, Texas, in May as punishment for his son pushing another one of Peterson's children. The boy suffered cuts and bruises to areas including his back, buttocks, ankles and legs.
Peterson reflected on his loss in an August interview with ESPN.com Vikings reporter Ben Goessling.
"It's just made me stop taking things for granted," said Peterson, who turned 29 in March. "Life is short. You never know. You just want to take advantage of the time you do have."
Peterson, in his eighth NFL season, rushed for 10,115 yards through his first seven full seasons as a pro, the fifth-most for any running back in NFL history during that specific time frame.
(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2014/09/12/0912-adrian-peterson-son-injuries-7.jpg)
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That's fucked up. What's his kids name, Kunta Kinte?
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I understand the child is only 4, but is this child abuse or a "good old fashioned butt whooping"?
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I was thinking "liberal bullshit" till I saw the open welts. That's way too much for a 4 year old. That being said, I don't think it calls for a sever
legal punishment, more along the lines of stern warning to "quit fucking around".
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What lack of parenting skills would lead someone to whip a 4-year old with a switch?
By the way, I just heard that the wounds the kid has in those pics were 5-7 days old.
Just let that sink in.
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I understand the child is only 4, but is this child abuse or a "good old fashioned butt whooping"?
No 4 yo deserves to be bruised like that period
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I understand the child is only 4, but is this child abuse or a "good old fashioned butt whooping"?
It's nothing
Maybe a bit too far
But this is an Nfl smokescreen
To remind us that in regards to Roger
There is nothing to see here...
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I think that some kids do need the occasional ass whipping to keep them in line but he was 4 years old. What could a 4 year old have done to deserve that? AP went too far.
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I think that some kids do need the occasional ass whipping to keep them in line but he was 4 years old. What could a 4 year old have done to deserve that? AP went too far.
definitely went too far. IMO, there are times when a swat on the rear end is needed... punch baby sister in the nose, there's no about of "time out" that works. But a switch to a 4 year old? that's extreme right there.
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That is not correction, that is anger......a four year old, way too young for switch use
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No 4 yo deserves to be bruised like that period
This.
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I understand the child is only 4, but is this child abuse or a "good old fashioned butt whooping"?
It's child abuse.
A good old fashioned whooping doesn't leave you with welts like you had 10 lashes
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My dad whopped my ass all the time, and look what I turned out to be, a bona field get bigger!
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Guys, those wounds are reportedly after healing for 5-7 days.
Imagine what the kid looked like right after it happened.
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Compared to my mom , Adrian Peterson is The Dalai Lama , but I agree 4 years old is too young to get whopped like that .
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Compared to my mom , Adrian Peterson is The Dalai Lama , but I agree 4 years old is too young to get whopped like that .
I caught one of those "go outside and pick a switch so i can whip you with it" once.
By my great grandmother no less.
She brought that 1918 old school style justice to a young poly!
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(http://img3.owned.com/media/images/2/4/3/1/24310/many_have_failed_where_joe_jackson_succeeded_540.jpg)
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I caught one of those "go outside and pick a switch so i can whip you with it" once.
By my great grandmother no less.
She brought that 1918 old school style justice to a young poly!
Haha , good woman.
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If he wanted to, he could turn this real religious real fast
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Weird world we live in where you can't lay a hand on an adult in any aggressive manner but you can to a defenseless child "with reason". How man slashes with a whip on a baby would be considered ok in the eyes of the court system?
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From the pictures it looks like he hit his son at least 20 times...what kind of person could do that to a 4 year old???
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It's child abuse.
A good old fashioned whooping doesn't leave you with welts like you had 10 lashes
+1
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It's nothing
Child abuser.
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It's nothing
Maybe a bit too far
But this is an Nfl smokescreen
To remind us that in regards to Roger
There is nothing to see here...
So if this kid's uncle was minding him and inflicted the same punishment it wouldn't be considered abuse?
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The child is 4 years old. I don't care who this guy is, this is pure abuse. No 4 year old child can understand why his dad is hitting him so hard he leaves marks. Especially 'by accident' in the testicles. I wonder who this child grows up to understand? That hitting people, hurting them, and leaving marks is ok. No wonder some people grow up like that.
Hmm... any other case like this recently in which a grown man whacked a woman? Makes me wonder if he got hit hard when he was a kid.
It is not ok. It is pathetic for someone to do that do a 4 year old.
240 is right. A light whack to the rear.
If this guy did that to anyone else, he would be arrested, vilified and done. But since it was his son, it was ok. Bullshit.
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Jesus fucking Christ FOUR years old? He should do jail time. What a fucking idiot.
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I have spoken out against corporal punishment ever since I was an adult. It is a sick twisted child rearing practice that should be condemned. Sadly, the majority of adults WANT the right to hit children, even the 'A smack on the bum crowd' are promoting highly dysfunctional behaviour that is a big part of why our societies are so dysfunctional to begin with. There is more to physical abuse than just the physical pain, probably the worst repercussion is that such children grow up to think it is OK to hit children. The fallout out from corporal punishment is far larger than most people realise, it is probably the Number 1 cause for our modern day dysfunctional society. Children are the most vulnerable and powerless people in our society, they have almost NO political, societal or financial power to change any abuse they suffer at the hands of adults.
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definitely went too far. IMO, there are times when a swat on the rear end is needed... punch baby sister in the nose, there's no about of "time out" that works. But a switch to a 4 year old? that's extreme right there.
Yeah hitting a child to teach them that hitting others is wrong is the best method I reckon. ::)
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Yeah hitting a child to teach them that hitting others is wrong is the best method I reckon. ::)
What many child abusers don't seem to understand :-\
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Weird world we live in where you can't lay a hand on an adult in any aggressive manner but you can to a defenseless child "with reason". How man slashes with a whip on a baby would be considered ok in the eyes of the court system?
Not the same thing. I agree that the whooping was too severe to a child but its a slipperly slope when .gov can step in between parents and their children. The "state" doesn't need any more power in this country.
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Yeah hitting a child to teach them that hitting others is wrong is the best method I reckon. ::)
Well putting them in "timeout" sure as fuck isn't working either.....
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Well putting them in "timeout" sure as fuck isn't working either.....
What do you mean by working? Do you think that there is some way to stop children being children? A childs very nature is to act out and push boundaries, any redress to this only hardens them and exacerbates poor behaviour. Children eventually grow into adults, and the ones that were on the receiving end of punitive parents who regularly hit, humiliated and belittled them suffer far more mental and emotional problems later on. Imagine you or I were granted the power to discipline adults, to hit and punish them any time they did something you thought was undisciplined, can you imagine this being good for a functional society. The only reason adults hit children is because their is a massive power discrepancy and they can get away with it, it is the ultimate act of cowardice.
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What can I say. I have 3 sets of grandchildren. Two sets were raised by "time out" parents. They are spoiled and aimless brats. One set got a light open hand whack on the butt and toys and privilege sidelined for misbehaving. Today they are well adjusted happy adults....one a school teacher for 'special' kids and one a successful young businessman/concert promoter.
The Adrian affair belongs in his home with a warning from his wife, pastor and pediatrician to go light on punishment..."never with an instrument".
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I understand the child is only 4, but is this child abuse or a "good old fashioned butt whooping"?
my sisters and i use to get the switch in the South but i don't remember any track marks.
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What can I say. I have 3 sets of grandchildren. Two sets were raised by "time out" parents. They are spoiled and aimless brats. One set got a light open hand whack on the butt and toys and privilege sidelined for misbehaving. Today they are well adjusted happy adults....one a school teacher for 'special' kids and one a successful young businessman/concert promoter.
The Adrian affair belongs in his home with a warning from his wife, pastor and pediatrician to go light on punishment..."never with an instrument".
I got a belting for being a bad boy and I turned out just fine blah,blah, blah. I can't stand the morons who bleat this nonsense. For those that turn out 'so called' well adjusted many more end up committing crime, in jail, institutions or suicide or just live miserable lives. And the people you call well adjusted grew up thinking that it is OK to hit children, this is far from what I would call well adjusted, it may be a popular position, but dysfunctional nonetheless. And this is a big case on point, the so called well adjusted person is just someone who manages to keep his hidden dysfunction under control, many people hold normal jobs, but then act out in an antisocial manner, have relationship difficulties, neuroses, addictions etc etc.. I don't know if you have noticed, but society by and large is a collaborative dysfunctional mess, those that adjust best to this state of affairs must also by definition be equally dysfunctional.
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I don't know if you have noticed, but society by and large is a collaborative dysfunctional mess, those that adjust best to this state of affairs must also by definition be equally dysfunctional.
Exactly.
Not enough parents whipping their kids asses like they used to back in the day.
Parents have gotten soft.
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What do you mean by working? Do you think that there is some way to stop children being children? A child's very nature is to act out and push boundaries, any redress to this only hardens them and exacerbates poor behaviour. Children eventually grow into adults, and the ones that were on the receiving end of punitive parents who regularly hit, humiliated and belittled them suffer far more mental and emotional problems later on. Imagine you or I were granted the power to discipline adults, to hit and punish them any time they did something you thought was undisciplined, can you imagine this being good for a functional society. The only reason adults hit children is because their is a massive power discrepancy and they can get away with it, it is the ultimate act of cowardice.
I'm not advocating abusing a child like Peterson has done, I'm talking about implementing stern discipline with accountability and ramifications for bad behavior. I'm talking about being a goddamn parent instead of trying to be your kids BFF. Time out is nothing more than kicking the can down the road because you don't want to face the problem or an uncomfortable situation. It's bullshit and every parent worth a shit knows it. The entire concept carries over into the child's adult life and you have a generation of fuckheads that solve problems behind the anonymity of a computer screen....look no further than this place.
The parent's job is to supply a good role model for the child to learn from. In that framework there has to be rules and punitive punishment when rules aren't followed. Just like in the big boy world.
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I'm not advocating abusing a child like Peterson has done, I'm talking about implementing stern discipline with accountability and ramifications for bad behavior. I'm talking about being a goddamn parent instead of trying to be your kids BFF. Time out is nothing more than kicking the can down the road because you don't want to face the problem or an uncomfortable situation. It's bullshit and every parent worth a shit knows it. The entire concept carries over into the child's adult life and you have a generation of fuckheads that solve problems behind the anonymity of a computer screen....look no further than this place.
The parent's job is to supply a good role model for the child to learn from. In that framework there has to be rules and punitive punishment when rules aren't followed. Just like in the big boy world.
This wasn't child abuse tho
It was a n old fashioned "snatch"
Whipping
I mean he took the leaves off first !
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Wish AP would come here to Raleigh and go to work on some of these creatures.
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I'm not advocating abusing a child like Peterson has done, I'm talking about implementing stern discipline with accountability and ramifications for bad behavior. I'm talking about being a goddamn parent instead of trying to be your kids BFF. Time out is nothing more than kicking the can down the road because you don't want to face the problem or an uncomfortable situation. It's bullshit and every parent worth a shit knows it. The entire concept carries over into the child's adult life and you have a generation of fuckheads that solve problems behind the anonymity of a computer screen....look no further than this place.
The parent's job is to supply a good role model for the child to learn from. In that framework there has to be rules and punitive punishment when rules aren't followed. Just like in the big boy world.
I can tell you this, spanking and physical punishment may help in the very short-term, but really does not do anything in the long-term. There is no evidence to suggest that spanking leads to better outcomes later in adult life.
I agree 100% what you said about parents being role models. It has to start there. No amount of time out or spanking will work if the parents are not good role models. This is essential.
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(http://ll-media.tmz.com/2014/09/12/0912-adrian-peterson-son-injuries-7.jpg)
when a 'parent' loses control. :-\
hard to imagine what a four-year-old child could have possibly done wrong to receive such a thrashing
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I can tell you this, spanking and physical punishment may help in the very short-term, but really does not do anything in the long-term. There is no evidence to suggest that spanking leads to better outcomes later in adult life.
I agree 100% what you said about parents being role models. It has to start there. No amount of time out or spanking will work if the parents are not good role models. This is essential.
No evidence?
The fuck ups of Generation Nothingness are evidence enough.
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No evidence?
The fuck ups of Generation Nothingness are evidence enough.
First, that's anecdotal evidence. There are many reasons for Generation Nothingness.
Second, the issue is that if spanking and physical punishment worked, then people in ghetto communities would not be in the position their in. Many families of low-income status, especially those in urban communities, utilize physical and corporal punishment to discipline their children. If this method of parenting is so effective, why do so many children in adult life turn to gangs and criminal violence? I bet practically every adult who is in a gang can recall instances of physical punishment. If that form of punishment is so effective, why do they become criminals? If spanking and physical punishment is so effective in the long-run, why did it not curb them away from a life of gang violence and crime?
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That is not abuse... The kid apparently was fighting with his other siblings after repeatedly being warned not to... Yet he continued to do so.
I bet that kid doesn't do it again.
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That is not abuse... The kid apparently was fighting with his other siblings after repeatedly being warned not to... Yet he continued to do so.
I bet that kid doesn't do it again.
I bet he does. Are you telling me that this beating will completely eliminate sibling rivalry, even in years to come? lol. The kid probably won't do it for a few weeks. A month or two, he will be back to fighting with his siblings, like all kids do. Siblings fight, especially if you're 4 years old. If you can't handle sibling rivalry as a parent, don't have more than 1 kid. Its inevitable.
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i had/have no problems getting my beatings as a kid , i earned every single one of them, and after i got my beating i knew never to do shit like that again even as a small child
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I bet he does. Are you telling me that this beating will completely eliminate sibling rivalry, even in years to come? lol. The kid probably won't do it for a few weeks. A month or two, he will be back to fighting with his siblings, like all kids do. Siblings fight, especially if you're 4 years old. If you can't handle sibling rivalry as a parent, don't have more than 1 kid. Its inevitable.
I am just saying that when my kid was about 4, he got really lippy... I swatted at him and he said "That didn't hurt.", so I whacked his ass as hard as I could with my open hand.
To this day, I've never had to lay another hand on him since... He will tell you, because I've asked him, that he doesn't remember the pain, but he remembers that he doesn't want it again.
You take that however you want, but I haven't had to do it again.
Sibling rivalry is one thing, but actually fighting with your siblings and perhaps beating on them, that's entirely different... You don't know what was going on and neither do I.
What I will say is that if a kid needs to get his ass beat, he needs to get his ass beat.
Some kids you don't need to, some kids you do. You and I don't know that kid.
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i had/have no problems getting my beatings as a kid , i earned every single one of them, and after i got my beating i knew never to do shit like that again even as a small child
Yes, and there are many children who get beatings as kids and turn out to be criminals and thugs? I don't get your point.
Also, how do you take into account those children who DON'T get beatings but turn out just fine? You would have turned out just fine without those beatings.
There are A LOT of other factors involved that contributed to who you became that have nothing to do with your beatings.
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I am just saying that when my kid was about 4, he got really lippy... I swatted at him and he said "That didn't hurt.", so I whacked his ass as hard as I could with my open hand.
To this day, I've never had to lay another hand on him since... He will tell you, because I've asked him, that he doesn't remember the pain, but he remembers that he doesn't want it again.
You take that however you want, but I haven't had to do it again.
Sibling rivalry is one thing, but actually fighting with your siblings and perhaps beating on them, that's entirely different... You don't know what was going on and neither do I.
What I will say is that if a kid needs to get his ass beat, he needs to get his ass beat.
Some kids you don't need to, some kids you do. You and I don't know that kid.
Provide me evidence that spankings or physical corporal punishment lead to a cessation of disruptive behavior over the long-term.
Your anecdotal evidence does not count.
So, basically what youre saying is you dont have good enough parenting skills to make your child stop misbehaving? That you have to resort to physical violence and fear tactics to get him to stop? Wow.
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Provide me evidence that spankings or physical corporal punishment lead to a cessation of disruptive behavior over the long-term.
Your anecdotal evidence does not count.
Can you provide evidence it doesn't?
You can site some study, but then I can site a study that says it does.
There is no way anyone can tell for certain one way or the other, and to be honest, my anecdotal evidence is all I need because it's about MY kids.
See, that's the thing, I don't care about how you raise your kids, because if they end up in prison, that's on you. If my kid ends up in prison, then that's on me... I only want to keep MY son out of prison, I don't care a bit about yours.
So when your son is whatever he is, and my son is whatever he is, I only care about one of them.
Mine.
Adrian Peterson is raising his son how he sees fit... it's none of my business.
PS... since it's about football and whatever. I don't give a shit about the Ray Rice nonsense either... if a woman wants to be married to a guy that hit her, that's their business... Not mine.
Bunch of busy bodies.
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Can you provide evidence it doesn't?
You can site some study, but then I can site a study that says it does.
There is no way anyone can tell for certain one way or the other, and to be honest, my anecdotal evidence is all I need because it's about MY kids.
See, that's the thing, I don't care about how you raise your kids, because if they end up in prison, that's on you. If my kid ends up in prison, then that's on me... I only want to keep MY son out of prison, I don't care a bit about yours.
So when your son is whatever he is, and my son is whatever he is, I only care about one of them.
Mine.
Adrian Peterson is raising his son how he sees fit... it's none of my business.
PS... since it's about football and whatever. I don't give a shit about the Ray Rice nonsense either... if a woman wants to be married to a guy that hit her, that's their business... Not mine.
Bunch of busy bodies.
No, you will hardly find any studies that show that physical beatings and spankings lead to positive outcomes. In fact, the evidence is so overwhelming. For every article you can find, I can find a thousand of its opposite. There are exceptions to every rule, but the majority of evidence is against beatings/spankings.
Also, what it tells me is you're not a good enough parent to teach your children how to behave properly without hurting them or striking fear in their eyes. That you cannot utilize good parenting skills to get your kids to listen. Id feel ashamed if I had to use scare tactics to get any child to listen.
Well, its good to know you'd turn a blind eye to a child getting beaten and abused because its not your kid. :-\ :-\ Its good to know if you knew a 3 year old was being physically or sexually abused you would just look away because, "I don't care about how you raise your kids." Stay classy.
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Yes, and there are many children who get beatings as kids and turn out to be criminals and thugs? I don't get your point.
Also, how do you take into account those children who DON'T get beatings but turn out just fine? You would have turned out just fine without those beatings.
There are A LOT of other factors involved that contributed to who you became that have nothing to do with your beatings.
i don't have any kids, i have no first hand knowledge or experience on raising a child to be a man or woman, so really i'm just talking out of my ass here on this thread ;D
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No, you will hardly find any studies that show that physical beatings and spankings lead to positive outcomes. In fact, the evidence is so overwhelming. For every article you can find, I can find a thousand of its opposite. There are exceptions to every rule, but the majority of evidence is against beatings/spankings.
Also, what it tells me is you're not a good enough parent to teach your children how to behave properly without hurting them or striking fear in their eyes. That you cannot utilize good parenting skills to get your kids to listen. Id feel ashamed if I had to use scare tactics to get any child to listen.
Well, its good to know you'd turn a blind eye to a child getting beaten and abused because its not your kid. :-\ :-\ Its good to know if you knew a 3 year old was being physically or sexually abused you would just look away because, "I don't care about how you raise your kids." Stay classy.
Abuse is one thing, a spanking if deserved is entirely different.
You are taking one thing, and turning it into the end of the world.
One grand jury refused to indict him and the next decided to do so, so apparently it's not just cut and dried like you want to make it out to be.
Part of being a parent IS to make sure your children respect and at times fear you... That's a part of it.
Some of it is to be their friend and some of it is a caregiver... It's not just black and white, but you apparently think it is.
In the real world, there's a lot of gray and just because you think I'm one way, doesn't mean it's so.
You don't know me, just like I don't know you.
What I DO know is that I have two really great kids and they stay out of trouble and have no problem coming to me and talking to me about whatever is on their minds.
If that makes me a bad parent, then I am happy to be the evil terrible parent that you think I am.
Your opinion of me does not matter one bit.
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definitely went too far. IMO, there are times when a swat on the rear end is needed... punch baby sister in the nose, there's no about of "time out" that works. But a switch to a 4 year old? that's extreme right there.
I think he said he got switched whooped as a boy , thus this is learned behavior and quite wrong.
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The child is 4 years old. I don't care who this guy is, this is pure abuse. No 4 year old child can understand why his dad is hitting him so hard he leaves marks. Especially 'by accident' in the testicles. I wonder who this child grows up to understand? That hitting people, hurting them, and leaving marks is ok. No wonder some people grow up like that.
Hmm... any other case like this recently in which a grown man whacked a woman? Makes me wonder if he got hit hard when he was a kid.
It is not ok. It is pathetic for someone to do that do a 4 year old.
240 is right. A light whack to the rear.
If this guy did that to anyone else, he would be arrested, vilified and done. But since it was his son, it was ok. Bullshit.
x2 good post
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Abuse is one thing, a spanking if deserved is entirely different.
You are taking one thing, and turning it into the end of the world.
One grand jury refused to indict him and the next decided to do so, so apparently it's not just cut and dried like you want to make it out to be.
Part of being a parent IS to make sure your children respect and at times fear you... That's a part of it.
Some of it is to be their friend and some of it is a caregiver... It's not just black and white, but you apparently think it is.
In the real world, there's a lot of gray and just because you think I'm one way, doesn't mean it's so.
You don't know me, just like I don't know you.
What I DO know is that I have two really great kids and they stay out of trouble and have no problem coming to me and talking to me about whatever is on their minds.
If that makes me a bad parent, then I am happy to be the evil terrible parent that you think I am.
Your opinion of me does not matter one bit.
I know my opinion of you does not matter, just like your opinion of me does not matter.
That's the thing, you just proved my point. If you claim to be a good father, then there are A LOT of reasons why your kids turned out to be good kids that probably have absolutely nothing to do with a few spankings. You're a good father. Thus, its more likely that your kids turned out to be good kids because they had the follow: access to good education, access to good social support systems, safe neighborhood, loving parents, safe and loving peers/friends, good teachers, strong community, and a temperament (genetics) that lended itself to self-regulation.
As opposed to get a few spankings.
The research is overwhelming in that all of the stuff I mentioned in bolded black is why people turn out like they do, not because of a few spankings. If you provided your kids with nothing in the first paragraph (bolded in black) but only spanked them, I can almost guarantee you they would not have turned out to be good kids. If spanking did help curb their bad behavior, it curbed it in an extremely minimal way. All the other stuff are overwhelmingly more important. I do not know why Americans hold onto this antiquated belief about spanking. It's just so false. As I said, the research is overwhelming, especially when you review the research about how many factors (education, community, parents, etc) affect brain development.
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That's the thing, you just proved my point. If you claim to be a good father, then there are A LOT of reasons why your kids turned out to be good kids that probably have absolutely nothing to do with a few spankings. You're a good father. Thus, its more likely that your kids turned out to be good kids because they had the follow: access to good education, access to good social support systems, safe neighborhood, loving parents, safe and loving peers/friends, good teachers, strong community, and a temperament (genetics) that lended itself to self-regulation.
As opposed to get a few spankings.
The research is overwhelming in that all of the stuff I mentioned in bolded black is why people turn out like they do, not because of a few spankings. If you provided your kids with nothing in the first paragraph (bolded in black) but only spanked them, I can almost guarantee you they would not have turned out to be good kids. If spanking did help curb their bad behavior, it curbed it in an extremely minimal way. All the other stuff are overwhelmingly more important.
I "proved" absolutely nothing.
I stated that my kids are good kids and they do certain things. It "proves" zero.
No study is proof, it is all theory... There is nothing scientific about it.
My point is that you don't know THAT kid... that's a fact.
Just like you don't know MY kids... another fact.
Maybe Peterson went too far... maybe he tried the nurturing / warning / hugs many times and his kid refused to listen... There are many kids that you truly can only get through to by fear.
Hell, my brother was one of them... He will tell you point blank that if my mom hadn't beat his ass as much as she did, he would have ended up in prison without a doubt. She will also tell you that he deserved a lot more beatings than he got, but she didn't do it because his ass couldn't hold them all.
Every kid isn't the same and since neither you, nor I, know this particular kid, I refuse to make a judgement call about its "abuse".
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I "proved" absolutely nothing.
I stated that my kids are good kids and they do certain things. It "proves" zero.
No study is proof, it is all theory... There is nothing scientific about it.
My point is that you don't know THAT kid... that's a fact.
Just like you don't know MY kids... another fact.
Maybe Peterson went too far... maybe he tried the nurturing / warning / hugs many times and his kid refused to listen... There are many kids that you truly can only get through to by fear.
Hell, my brother was one of them... He will tell you point blank that if my mom hadn't beat his ass as much as she did, he would have ended up in prison without a doubt. She will also tell you that he deserved a lot more beatings than he got, but she didn't do it because his ass couldn't hold them all.
Every kid isn't the same and since neither you, nor I, know this particular kid, I refuse to make a judgement call about its "abuse".
Incorrect. There is overwhelming evidence that certain environment affects children's development, particularly excessive trauma. The evidence cannot even be disputed. Then again we are really not talking about trauma. However, the environment affects children. This is a fact.
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Incorrect. There is overwhelming evidence that certain environment affects children's development, particularly excessive trauma. The evidence cannot even be disputed. Then again we are really not talking about trauma. However, the environment affects children. This is a fact.
What is incorrect?
There is many disputes on evidence, and you posted nothing that proves me to be incorrect in anything I've stated what so ever.
What is incorrect?
That you don't know that or mine?
Or my brother or around 7 billion people?
Please explain what is incorrect in what I've posed.
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What is incorrect?
There is many disputes on evidence, and you posted nothing that proves me to be incorrect in anything I've stated what so ever.
What is incorrect?
That you don't know that or mine?
Or my brother or around 7 billion people?
Please explain what is incorrect in what I've posed.
It's incorrect that there is no study sufficient enough to indicate that the environment affects children's development. It's overwhelming. In the field of psychology, neuroscience, biology, chemistry, anthropology, biopsych, sociology there is no dispute over the fact that the environment affects peoples (children's) development. There may be disputes about HOW the environment affects people, but its a fact that it does. The process by which this happens definitely differs, but there is a relationship between environment and children's development. You will not see any dispute over that.
What type of evidence do you want? Do you want me to email you peer-reviewed journals? I can't believe I am actually arguing with someone over this. I thought it was common sense to most people that the environment affects people. :-\ :-\ :-\
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oh i didn't see AP's son was FOUR
damn. That's WAY overboard to hit a four year old like that. That's actually pretty damned cruel. The damned kid just graduated pre school (or is entering it this year).
he's probably about 35-40 pounds. This is way overboard and inexcusable. Not permanent ban inexcusable but AP has gotta go to some rehabilitation type of program and catch at the least a misdemeanor and a bit of jail time then get suspended for the rest of the season
fucked up. and i just read he did this because his son was playing in the yard with his friends and AP had told him to sit in a chair, and went inside, then came back out and he was playing. he also hit the kid in front of the other kids.
fucked up.
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Abuse is one thing, a spanking if deserved is entirely different.
You are taking one thing, and turning it into the end of the world.
One grand jury refused to indict him and the next decided to do so, so apparently it's not just cut and dried like you want to make it out to be.
Part of being a parent IS to make sure your children respect and at times fear you... That's a part of it.
Some of it is to be their friend and some of it is a caregiver... It's not just black and white, but you apparently think it is.
In the real world, there's a lot of gray and just because you think I'm one way, doesn't mean it's so.
You don't know me, just like I don't know you.
What I DO know is that I have two really great kids and they stay out of trouble and have no problem coming to me and talking to me about whatever is on their minds.
If that makes me a bad parent, then I am happy to be the evil terrible parent that you think I am.
Your opinion of me does not matter one bit.
I'm with you man. I was spanked as a child, and I deserved it, as I was one of those children that pushed the boundaries as far as I could to see where the line was... and the spanking was when I decided "Ok, theres the line. Better not go there again". I distinctly remember thinking that several times.
Same with my son, he's the kind of kid that pushes as far as he can to see where the line is.... and he doesn't care about time out, he doesn't care about a stern talking to, he doesn't respond to positive reinforcement when he gets in the "line pushing" mood.... but he sure as hell figured the line out when he finally pushed far enough that he got a swat.
I measure it so it's just hard enough that he feels it, but the diaper absorbs 99% of it. I've only had to do it maybe 3-4 times... 2 of which I screwed up and error'd on the way to light side and he didn't even feel it... he just stared at me like "wtf dad".
Lol.
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nobody wants to say their mom was abusive because they love them. same mechanism operates in abusive partnerships where for example: the beaten wife stays with her man....the emotions drive the mind to rationalize the harm
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Before laying a hand on a child, try putting them in a sound proof padded room for their "time out"...Anyone can build one for about a $1000...Hell pump some calming music in there and get creative...If it doesn't calm your child down, it may just turn him into a sociopath who one day may get a high paying job in politics...lol. Some kids are stimulated from being hit or spanked and actually do shit to get that sort of stimulation. A sound proof padded room will calm anyone down. For fucks sakes people get creative when a child is "out of line"...If you can't outsmart of 5 year old to the point your abusing your child, maybe you should give the kid up for adoption...But then again, abusers don't really know they are abusers.
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I have spoken out against corporal punishment ever since I was an adult. It is a sick twisted child rearing practice that should be condemned. Sadly, the majority of adults WANT the right to hit children, even the 'A smack on the bum crowd' are promoting highly dysfunctional behaviour that is a big part of why our societies are so dysfunctional to begin with. There is more to physical abuse than just the physical pain, probably the worst repercussion is that such children grow up to think it is OK to hit children. The fallout out from corporal punishment is far larger than most people realise, it is probably the Number 1 cause for our modern day dysfunctional society. Children are the most vulnerable and powerless people in our society, they have almost NO political, societal or financial power to change any abuse they suffer at the hands of adults.
Do you have any evidence to back this up?
Seems to me that there is far less corporal punishments at home and in schools than there was say 60-70 years ago.
Do kids today have more respect than those raised in 60-70 years ago? Are they better behaved at school? Is there less crime amongst our youth?
Obviously, the answer to all of the above is a resounding NO.
Liberals have made corporal punishment illegal at school, yet kids are less respectful to adults generally, youth crime rates are through the roof and the behavior of children at school is terrible. A lot of this, in my opinion, is that there is no longer any real recourse when they misbehave.
It's the same school of thought that dictates that things like the death penalty needs to he humane, neat and tidy. So if some poor child killer takes a while to die or suffers during an execution, there is an outcry. Yet there is no logical reason that physical pain needs to be kept out of punishment. Why shouldn't execution hurt? Is there a reason?
For punishment to have any impact, it needs to be something that induces psychological of physical discomfort. A timeout induces psychological discomfort. Or to put it another way, it is a really, really mild form of psychological torture. Or to put it another way, you are fucking with your kids headspace when you do it. I just don't buy that psychological methods are any different from physical methods. They need to be carefully administered, short, sharp shocks that get your kid to understand that certain behaviours are not to be tolerated.
Physical punishment and psychological punishment are the same thing. They need to be administered carefully. You don't lock your kids in solitary for 6 months and you don't beat them to a pulp.
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pedro brings the cattle prod to keep the kids in line
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Do you have any evidence to back this up?
Seems to me that there is far less corporal punishments at home and in schools than there was say 60-70 years ago.
Do kids today have more respect than those raised in 60-70 years ago? Are they better behaved at school? Is there less crime amongst our youth?
Obviously, the answer to all of the above is a resounding NO.
Liberals have made corporal punishment illegal at school, yet kids are less respectful to adults generally, youth crime rates are through the roof and the behavior of children at school is terrible. A lot of this, in my opinion, is that there is no longer any real recourse when they misbehave.
It's the same school of thought that dictates that things like the death penalty needs to he humane, neat and tidy. So if some poor child killer takes a while to die or suffers during an execution, there is an outcry. Yet there is no logical reason that physical pain needs to be kept out of punishment. Why shouldn't execution hurt? Is there a reason?
For punishment to have any impact, it needs to be something that induces psychological of physical discomfort. A timeout induces psychological discomfort. Or to put it another way, it is a really, really mild form of psychological torture. Or to put it another way, you are fucking with your kids headspace when you do it. I just don't buy that psychological methods are any different from physical methods. They need to be carefully administered, short, sharp shocks that get your kid to understand that certain behaviours are not to be tolerated.
Physical punishment and psychological punishment are the same thing. They need to be administered carefully. You don't lock your kids in solitary for 6 months and you don't beat them to a pulp.
Are you seriously "implying" that spanking kids will cure today's crime rate? lol. There are MANY reasons why today's teens are out of control. The fact of the matter is that many parents spank their children, yet their is still crime. There is still violence. I can almost guarantee that every person in the photo below was administered spankings and physical discipline. In fact, spanking is VERY common in low-income, urban communities. Yet, the crime rate is high among inner city kids. If spanking worked so well, why are these kids resorting to gangs and violence? It is quite clear that something else is going on that has absolutely nothing to do with giving your kids a few spanks.
(http://unitedgangs.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/harvard-gangster-crips.jpg)
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I can tell you this, spanking and physical punishment may help in the very short-term, but really does not do anything in the long-term. There is no evidence to suggest that spanking leads to better outcomes later in adult life.
I agree 100% what you said about parents being role models. It has to start there. No amount of time out or spanking will work if the parents are not good role models. This is essential.
Iv'e never laid a hand on my child in anger, in her 15 years on this planet. not a single smack. I talk to her, and take away whatever she values at the time as punishment.
her mom was free with her hands,always spanking her..which pissed me the fuck off to the point I threatened to kill her if she hit my kid again.
fast forward to today, whatever her mom says to her, goes in one ear and out the other. when I speak, she listens
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Iv'e never laid a hand on my child in anger, in her 15 years on this planet. not a single smack. I talk to her, and take away whatever she values at the time as punishment.
her mom was free with her hands,always spanking her..which pissed me the fuck off to the point I threatened to kill her if she hit my kid again.
fast forward to today, whatever her mom says to her, goes in one ear and out the other. when I speak, she listens
Exactly.
The problem is that America has a sick obsession with violence, even violence toward our children. How disgusting is it to actually believe that it's okay to hit your children. :-\ :-\
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pedro brings the cattle prod to keep the kids in line
lol....
Funnily enough I have 2 kids. Neither of them need spanking. My 12 year old did get spanked once but it was a one off and involved a search party. He's just a laid back kid who gets on well at school and home and has hobbies he likes to occupy his free time. He simply doesn't misbehave to any meaningful extent. Of course he does get out of line but a chat about it stops it happening again.
My 4 year daughter is like a wild bobcat, the total opposite of her brother. Always pushing the boundaries. We have to nurture that because it's a healthy thing but you need to keep it in line. A chat is not enough for her but she doesn't get spanked because she hates being on her own in her bedroom. In fact, it's very tough to keep her in a timeout because of the tears it generates - but as a parent, you have to carry out punishments or the threats are meaningless.
Right now, all we need to say is "you want to go to your bedroom" if she misbehaves and she stops dead. Like I say - I don't see using the fear she has of a timeout any differently than the fear she'd have of a spanking if that was what it took. Right now I have the means to keep both kids in line without resorting to physical means but that does not mean I would not use them or that I think badly of those that use them sparingly.
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Exactly.
The problem is that America has a sick obsession with violence, even violence toward our children. How disgusting is it to actually believe that it's okay to hit your children. :-\ :-\
dude, it was pretty fucking tense. my ex would start whacking her, and I would sit there for a few seconds, seething. because youre not supposed to undermine each other either.
then I would snap and fly off the couch like a madman, and get in her face saying you put another hand on her I'm going to put mine on you. which I didn't like creating that tension but fuck it, lesser of two evils. one of the reasons we split up. not to paint her as a child abuser, she never HURT the kid, she just had NO fuse, nevermind a short one and I just did not believe in it.
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Iv'e never laid a hand on my child in anger, in her 15 years on this planet. not a single smack. I talk to her, and take away whatever she values at the time as punishment.
her mom was free with her hands,always spanking her..which pissed me the fuck off to the point I threatened to kill her if she hit my kid again.
fast forward to today, whatever her mom says to her, goes in one ear and out the other. when I speak, she listens
Could that also be because she is your daughter?
Fathers tend to be softer on daughters, as mothers tend to be softer on sons.
Daddy's Little Girl and Momma's Boy do have some meaning.
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lol....
Funnily enough I have 2 kids. Neither of them need spanking. My 12 year old did get spanked once but it was a one off and involved a search party. He's just a laid back kid who gets on well at school and home and has hobbies he likes to occupy his free time. He simply doesn't misbehave to any meaningful extent. Of course he does get out of line but a chat about it stops it happening again.
My 4 year daughter is like a wild bobcat, the total opposite of her brother. Always pushing the boundaries. We have to nurture that because it's a healthy thing but you need to keep it in line. A chat is not enough for her but she doesn't get spanked because she hates being on her own in her bedroom. In fact, it's very tough to keep her in a timeout because of the tears it generates - but as a parent, you have to carry out punishments or the threats are meaningless.
Right now, all we need to say is "you want to go to your bedroom" if she misbehaves and she stops dead. Like I say - I don't see using the fear she has of a timeout any differently than the fear she'd have of a spanking if that was what it took. Right now I have the means to keep both kids in line without resorting to physical means but that does not mean I would not use them or that I think badly of those that use them sparingly.
as you noticed, if the kid is independent minded and high energy then that's that and nothing will change it.
There nothing inherently wrong with violence but the point is that it's difficult to justify in these circumstances. a timeout is technically psychological manipulation but is just much easier to justify because its not an attack on the person but a change to their environment.
Ideally someone could propose a method of parenting that excludes all punishment. who said punishments are requirement? This stuff went out of style a long time ago.
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as you noticed, if the kid is independent minded and high energy then that's that and nothing will change it.
There nothing inherently wrong with violence but the point is that it's difficult to justify in these circumstances. a timeout is technically psychological manipulation but is just much easier to justify because its not an attack on the person but a change to their environment.
Ideally someone could propose a method of parenting that excludes all punishment. who said punishments are requirement? This stuff went out of style a long time ago.
Punishment went out a long time ago?
Punishment is when the "reward" from authority when you do wrong. By your logic when you break a law, the police should do nothing.
If someone breaks into your house, and steals something, there should be no punishment. And following said logic, that person who committed the crime (in your world) never was punished for committing crimes, disobeying authority, because that stuff went out a long ago.
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Punishment went out a long time ago?
Punishment is when the "reward" from authority when you do wrong. By your logic when you break a law, the police should do nothing.
If someone breaks into your house, and steals something, there should be no punishment. And following said logic, that person who committed the crime (in your world) never was punished for committing crimes, disobeying authority, because that stuff went out a long ago.
that's why I said "ideally"
yes and newsflash the crime and punishment model is not the latest in child development circles.
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that's why I said "ideally"
yes and newsflash the crime and punishment model is not the latest in child development circles.
The problem is - when people do studies on high rates of re-offenders, they use their data to prove the point "look - prison doesn't work - these people didn't learn their lesson inside"
Of course, that is the point they started out wanting to prove in the first place.
But they never look at how many people saw that punishment as a reason to not offend in the first place.
To be honest, if there was no punishment for crimes, I may well grab a gun and rob the local bank. Why not? As it is, I choose not to be anally abused by some large hebrew for 15-20.
You can't look at rates of re-offending and say that punishment is not preventing crime.
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The problem is that there is no "ideal" reality, especially when you dealing with sentient beings, specifically human beings.
And yes, I know that...It's older than "spare the rod, spoil the child".
yes ok so it's just something to talk about which is what we're doing. It's useful to imagine improvements if you hope to make them real.
So another metaphor...trying to get away from treating your children like prisoners...can you think of any??
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Are you seriously "implying" that spanking kids will cure today's crime rate? lol. There are MANY reasons why today's teens are out of control. The fact of the matter is that many parents spank their children, yet their is still crime. There is still violence. I can almost guarantee that every person in the photo below was administered spankings and physical discipline. In fact, spanking is VERY common in low-income, urban communities. Yet, the crime rate is high among inner city kids. If spanking worked so well, why are these kids resorting to gangs and violence? It is quite clear that something else is going on that has absolutely nothing to do with giving your kids a few spanks.
(http://unitedgangs.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/harvard-gangster-crips.jpg)
Yes.....the only thing missing in those young boys' lives was being put in Timeout.
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Yes.....the only thing missing in those young boys' lives was being put in Timeout.
Haha
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yes ok so it's just something to talk about which is what we're doing. It's useful to imagine improvements if you hope to make them real.
So another metaphor...trying to get away from treating your children like prisoners...can you think of any??
Prisoners, you sure do reach for the hyperbole medal, don't you?
Yes, just open the doors and let them run wild. When they come home feed them, and be glad that they come home. If one doesn't, say to the other ones, "that means more food for you"
Whether it be admonishing with harsh words, time outs (oh brother), taking certain privileges away, taking certain things away, grounding them, sending them to bed with no dinner, etc, there is no "ideal" method.
This world is harsh, and there are rules for everything. If you lived in the wilderness, the consequences of not following certain rules can make you (eating certain plants) or get you killed or your family killed. And that is the ultimate "punishment". So, in the world outside of humankind, there is also punishment.
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The problem is - when people do studies on high rates of re-offenders, they use their data to prove the point "look - prison doesn't work - these people didn't learn their lesson inside"
Of course, that is the point they started out wanting to prove in the first place.
But they never look at how many people saw that punishment as a reason to not offend in the first place.
To be honest, if there was no punishment for crimes, I may well grab a gun and rob the local bank. Why not? As it is, I choose not to be anally abused by some large hebrew for 15-20.
You can't look at rates of re-offending and say that punishment is not preventing crime.
ok well to each his own..just pointing out that the "parenting" strategies we're discussing come straight out of the prison.
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Prisoners, you sure do reach for the hyperbole medal, don't you?
Yes, just open the doors and let them run wild. When they come home feed them, and be glad that they come home. If one doesn't, say to the other ones, "that means more food for you"
Whether it be admonishing with harsh words, time outs (oh brother), taking certain privileges away, taking certain things away, grounding them, sending them to bed with no dinner, etc, there is no "ideal" method.
This world is harsh, and there are rules for everything. If you lived in the wilderness, the consequences of not following certain rules can make you (eating certain plants) or get you killed or your family killed. And that is the ultimate "punishment". So, in the world outside of humankind, there is also punishment.
You're the one used to break-in example. I'm just responding to your posts. Not trying to be inflammatory.
I agree the parents are responsible for protecting the kids and showing them how to move in the world. This is more like teaching to me so you have to model the correct behavior then kids follow. What you're saying is it's like trial and error with pedro style electric shocks when you're bad. You can't claim this is required due to being in the real world :D
Anyway so the consider this... the Kindergarten concept means Children's Garden in German which is modeled on an organic development notion...like flowers in a garden...maybe that's a better metaphor hmmm?
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ok well to each his own..just pointing out that the "parenting" strategies we're discussing come straight out of the prison.
spanking and taking privileges away or doing extra chores existed long before prisons or our current penal system. Hell, some people actually want to be locked up...free meals, a roof over your head. In some places you have weights, dip bars---your own gym that you don't have to pay for and also medical. To these folks it's reward, not a punishment. One could say that the state in itself is being a parent for its bad wards, or children.
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spanking and taking privileges away or doing extra chores existed long before prisons or our current penal system. Hell, some people actually want to be locked up...free meals, a roof over your head. In some places you have weights, dip bars---your own gym that you don't have to pay for and also medical. To these folks it's reward, not a punishment. One could say that the state in itself is being a parent for its bad wards, or children.
true and even the schools these days are a lot like prisons in reality.
if the objective is to learn something there are many ways of going about it.
If you follow tennis Andre Agassi was a child prodigy. His father built a court and a machine in the yard that fired 1 million tennis balls at the boy (not exaggerating). Andre was great at tennis. He Married Stefii Graf and they have kids with the best tennis genes imaginable but they won't put the kids into tennis because of how they suffered as kids!
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Can you provide evidence it doesn't?
You can site some study, but then I can site a study that says it does.
There is no way anyone can tell for certain one way or the other, and to be honest, my anecdotal evidence is all I need because it's about MY kids.
See, that's the thing, I don't care about how you raise your kids, because if they end up in prison, that's on you. If my kid ends up in prison, then that's on me... I only want to keep MY son out of prison, I don't care a bit about yours.
So when your son is whatever he is, and my son is whatever he is, I only care about one of them.
Mine.
Adrian Peterson is raising his son how he sees fit... it's none of my business.
PS... since it's about football and whatever. I don't give a shit about the Ray Rice nonsense either... if a woman wants to be married to a guy that hit her, that's their business... Not mine.
Bunch of busy bodies.
FYI, most state employees ( teachers, police, social workers, etc) have MANDATORY REPORTING of any SUSPECTED child abuse laws as conditions of employment. The actual law doesn't agree with you.
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Exactly.
Not enough parents whipping their kids asses like they used to back in the day.
Parents have gotten soft.
My older sis and I only got a few light wacks on the butt or slaps on the hand.
We NEVER got hit with a stick or belt. My dad was a WWII and Korea vet and knew how to discipline us effectively.
She became an MD , Med school prof and mother of 3.
I became a physics prof with a doctorate in my field.
Neither one of us ever used illegal drugs, drank much booze or got locked up for a crime.
FYI, the majority of criminals in jails were hit or whipped as kids.
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My older sis and I only got a few light wacks on the butt or slaps on the hand.
We NEVER got hit with a stick or belt. My dad was a WWII and Korea vet and knew how to discipline us effectively.
She became an MD , Med school prof and mother of 3.
I became a physics prof with a doctorate in my field.
Neither one of us ever used illegal drugs, drank much booze or got locked up for a crime.
FYI, the majority of criminals in jails were hit or whipped as kids.
So you're saying you're a lifetime natural?
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Yes.....the only thing missing in those young boys' lives was being put in Timeout.
and a future, and IQs, and... oh wait sarcasm? yes I SEE NOW.
lots of confirmation bias sheep opinions in this thread (not majority) but c'mon. step outside your past experiences for one moment.
would YOU hit a 4 year old kid like that?
i wouldn't. i'd never hit a kid. i was hit a bit when i was younger. in the same vain as this (less severe, not with a snatch... but with belts lightly).
well i don't think that taught me shit. i was stealing my parents cars at 12 to go out for a spin in front of their eyes cause they didn't remember where i was and i would just swap the pain killer stash from one spot to another and they would both go away and then i would steal the car at the furthest end of the garage and put it in neutral down the driveway then park and start it and dip out
then i was a drug addict
then i became rich by accident (no trust fund. parents are still alive and very well, thank god, and i wasn't raised like that. i went to harvard yes, and my dad paid for that shit, but i also made $400,000 exactly my junior year of college off basically meeting the right person at the right time and being able to write code on a professional level, and that wasn't even a fucking damned thing compared to what was coming @ 27 (last year).
so does getting beaten fuck you up later in life?
i dunno. i love my dad for beating me. then again my best night ever was getting absolutely pummelled after getting jumped at a townie bar in franklin, mass by 5 dudes, then my ribs broken at the end getting kicked by a girl in tims(bones broken, concussion, but gods of karma didn't let them touch my face for reasons obvious to not frustrate the god of man dime protection)
that shit made me very very happy
like the time i broke 26 bones that was actually living on the edge of life and death jaws of life cut open car air lift by helicopter to jacksonville hospital
the best memories though are the ones you really savor though. when you know, that they know, that you KNOW that's warm.
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dr.strangelove calling for var city...seems something has gone a bit backwards with you no? good luck forming healthy relationships tho
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true and even the schools these days are a lot like prisons in reality.
if the objective is to learn something there are many ways of going about it.
If you follow tennis Andre Agassi was a child prodigy. His father built a court and a machine in the yard that fired 1 million tennis balls at the boy (not exaggerating). Andre was great at tennis. He Married Stefii Graf and they have kids with the best tennis genes imaginable but they won't put the kids into tennis because of how they suffered as kids!
Ah, you mean where the it is the children/inmates who run the prison?
Or are you talking about the lockdown of inner city schools?
Prisons are pretty much built on the premise of keeping people in---with a lesser priority of keeping people out.
Schools not so much.
This was the same thing Tiger went thru...
As far as great tennis genes, I doubt it. There is no proof of that. Just like that there is no proof that Michael Jordan's sons would be better basketball players than him. The one thing that separated Michael Jordan above all basketball players was his drive to succeed, and he internalized when people put him down.
My older sis and I only got a few light wacks on the butt or slaps on the hand.
We NEVER got hit with a stick or belt. My dad was a WWII and Korea vet and knew how to discipline us effectively.
She became an MD , Med school prof and mother of 3.
I became a physics prof with a doctorate in my field.
Neither one of us ever used illegal drugs, drank much booze or got locked up for a crime.
FYI, the majority of criminals in jails were hit or whipped as kids.
So what happened that created your intability terms of marriage? We often mimic what we know...
And when you talk about criminals in jails were hit or whipped as kids, are we talking about excessive whipping, abuse? Or getting hit for no reason? See, as a teacher you should know about the wide spectrum of things.
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Ah, you mean where the it is the children/inmates who run the prison?
Or are you talking about the lockdown of inner city schools?
Prisons are pretty much built on the premise of keeping people in---with a lesser priority of keeping people out.
Schools not so much.
This was the same thing Tiger went thru...
As far as great tennis genes, I doubt it. There is no proof of that. Just like that there is no proof that Michael Jordan's sons would be better basketball players than him. The one thing that separated Michael Jordan above all basketball players was his drive to succeed, and he internalized when people put him down.
So what happened that created your intability terms of marriage? We often mimic what we know...
And when you talk about criminals in jails were hit or whipped as kids, are we talking about excessive whipping, abuse? Or getting hit for no reason? See, as a teacher you should know about the wide spectrum of things.
just want to clarify and return to the point where we started which is about the *necessity* of punishment. Pedro makes the astute point that timeouts and spanking are the same thing. What follows naturally is that *ideally* we would not need any form of it.
We punish criminals and animals. I still have not heard anyone make a compelling case for why we need to punish young children. Unless you want to put them in the aforementioned categories.
:)
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X3. Great post.
A 4 year-old is so small and fragile. There's no excuse for this.
Its crazy to me how there are people here attempting to justify Petersons behavior. It's bat shit crazy. :-\
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my sisters and i use to get the switch in the South but i don't remember any track marks.
Perhaps you should have gotten spanked a bit harder
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just want to clarify and return to the point where we started which is about the *necessity* of punishment. Pedro makes the astute point that timeouts and spanking are the same thing. What follows naturally is that *ideally* we would not need any form of it.
We punish criminals and animals. I still have not heard anyone make a compelling case for why we need to punish young children. Unless you want to put them in the aforementioned categories.
:)
you see, you get hung up on "punish"...
There is no "naturally" that follows, because nature in itself punishes. A wolf that cannot hunt starves. That wolf that tries to attack a rattlesnake gets bitten and dies.
You get too close to a hornet's nest, you get stun.
Punishment comes in many forms---it is the result of doing the wrong thing.
When you do wrong on here, you get sent to the timeout board or your account gets banned. Does that make you a criminal? No, it doesn't. A criminal is one who breaks the law of the land.
We punish those who do wrong, plan and simple. Children to adults. Now, as far as what form of punishment that is different. That there are consequences for bad behavior, and that there is reward for good behavior. If you want to argue that there is no compelling argument for punishing young children, then the opposite arguement would be that there is no compelling argument for rewarding young children.
*BTW, time out and a spanking are yes a form of punishment. But can be used as a progressive form of it punishment in itself.
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you see, you get hung up on "punish"...
There is no "naturally" that follows, because nature in itself punishes. A wolf that cannot hunt starves. That wolf that tries to attack a rattlesnake gets bitten and dies.
You get too close to a hornet's nest, you get stun.
Punishment comes in many forms---it is the result of doing the wrong thing.
When you do wrong on here, you get sent to the timeout board or your account gets banned. Does that make you a criminal? No, it doesn't. A criminal is one who breaks the law of the land.
We punish those who do wrong, plan and simple. Children to adults. Now, as far as what form of punishment that is different. That there are consequences for bad behavior, and that there is reward for good behavior. If you want to argue that there is no compelling argument for punishing young children, then the opposite arguement would be that there is no compelling argument for rewarding young children.
*BTW, time out and a spanking are yes a form of punishment. But can be used as a progressive form of it punishment in itself.
you're right. the same principles apply to rewarding children. The old school calls it "reinforcement". I'll have to think about it some more but I'll leave you with this pic to consider. This is was the state of the art 50 yrs ago. A perfect kid was supposed to emerge from the box!
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--dVOF-gCU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/180fr3ojblnbfjpg.jpg)
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This is some sharia law type shit. Wait...actually, I've never even heard of a 4 year old getting lashed in Islam :-\
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This is some sharia law type shit. Wait...actually, I've never even heard of a 4 year old getting lashed in Islam :-\
(http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/iran-boy-car1.jpg)
(http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/iran-boy-car4.jpg)
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(http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/iran-boy-car1.jpg)
(http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/iran-boy-car4.jpg)
Those pics are hosted by hoax slayer bro. The boy was actually a street performer doing a stunt.
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Those pics are hosted by hoax slayer bro. The boy was actually a street performer doing a stunt.
oh, lol ;D
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oh, lol ;D
Child labor laws of peace ;D
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Mike Ditka then says "I became a better person for it." (referring to his parents disciplining him with beatings)
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ditkas kids
(http://www.triblocal.com/deerfield/files/cache/2011/09/mark-ditka2.jpg/460_345_resize.jpg)
(http://www.triblocal.com/deerfield/files/cache/2011/04/mike.jpg/460_345_resize.jpg)
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Ray Rice probably won't be back in the league.
There is ZERO doubt peterson will be playing shortly.
Vikings want to trade him. Bucs will probably scoop him up, they have no problem with dudes like Lagarret Blout and other violent dudes.
OR New England will get Peterson... and they'll fcking dominate.
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Reverse Discipline to crackhead mother
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Reverse Discipline to crackhead mother
Kid is out of control...and I doubt that was the first time. And I wonder has he seen other men treat her like that.
Anger issues? Somethings are just sad.
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The following is a statement from Adrian Peterson:
"My attorney has asked me not to discuss the facts of my pending case. I hope you can respect that request and help me honor it. I very much want the public to hear from me but I understand that it is not appropriate to talk about the facts in detail at this time. Nevertheless, I want everyone to understand how sorry I feel about the hurt I have brought to my child.
I never wanted to be a distraction to the Vikings organization, the Minnesota community or to my teammates. I never imagined being in a position where the world is judging my parenting skills or calling me a child abuser because of the discipline I administered to my son.
I voluntarily appeared before the grand jury several weeks ago to answer any and all questions they had. Before my grand jury appearance, I was interviewed by two different police agencies without an attorney. In each of these interviews I have said the same thing, and that is that I never ever intended to harm my son. I will say the same thing once I have my day in court.
I have to live with the fact that when I disciplined my son the way I was disciplined as a child, I caused an injury that I never intended or thought would happen. I know that many people disagree with the way I disciplined my child. I also understand after meeting with a psychologist that there are other alternative ways of disciplining a child that may be more appropriate.
I have learned a lot and have had to reevaluate how I discipline my son going forward. But deep in my heart I have always believed I could have been one of those kids that was lost in the streets without the discipline instilled in me by my parents and other relatives. I have always believed that the way my parents disciplined me has a great deal to do with the success I have enjoyed as a man. I love my son and I will continue to become a better parent and learn from any mistakes I ever make.
I am not a perfect son. I am not a perfect husband. I am not a perfect parent, but I am, without a doubt, not a child abuser. I am someone that disciplined his child and did not intend to cause him any injury. No one can understand the hurt that I feel for my son and for the harm I caused him. My goal is always to teach my son right from wrong and that’s what I tried to do that day.
I accept the fact that people feel very strongly about this issue and what they think about my conduct. Regardless of what others think, however, I love my son very much and I will continue to try to become a better father and person."
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Now another story breaking that he has a 4 year old kid with another woman that he whipped.
Geesh. Dude is toast. Ray Rice is golden now.
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Now another story breaking that he has a 4 year old kid with another woman that he whipped.
Geesh. Dude is toast. Ray Rice is golden now.
Let's be honest, there's no reason to think that he hasn't done this with each of his children.
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Now another story breaking that he has a 4 year old kid with another woman that he whipped.
Geesh. Dude is toast. Ray Rice is golden now.
TMZ is reporting that he has been cleared of those charges.
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Said the other kid had a scar on his eyebrow or something of that ilk...
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So what happened that created your intability terms of marriage? We often mimic what we know...
And when you talk about criminals in jails were hit or whipped as kids, are we talking about excessive whipping, abuse?
[/quote]
1. BOTH my grandparents stayed married for their entire life. In fact, my maternal ( Dutch/Irish) grandparents were married for 74 yrs!
I had a normal, healthy childhood with wonderful parents. For whatever reason, I never wanted to have children, while my sister had 3.
I developed an independent mind set from a young age and view marriage as a loving partnership, NOT a lifelong deal with no exceptions.
2. Plenty of decent, law abiding citizens were "whipped" as kids by their parents. When Peterson, says, he got whipped and now he does the same thing when he disciplines his kids. The harm to the kids is a lot more complicated an issue. I suspect that a child is better off getting a hard spanking, then in being ignored and allowed to run free. BUT, if the main interaction with the parent is getting whipped without much love in between, THAT may prove be harmful .
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Crazy black genetics, apparently this Adrian guy said his dad and uncles all have 17-18inch arms and don't even workout
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1942393.1410926831!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/peterson17n-3-web.jpg)
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Race of peace.
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calmly sits around all day collecting church donations , flipping around radio stations turning up speakers for hand strenth
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Simple explanation. They have muscles from disciplining the childrens.
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calmly sits around all day collecting church donations , flipping around radio stations turning up speakers for hand strenth
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....
I got a pic popping in my head.. fucking priceless Falconian post of peace....
One of the reason I pop here now and then FalconSpeed.
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'you gonna grow just like yo daddy, just another niggha'