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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: hardgainerj on October 13, 2014, 06:55:07 PM
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beneficial or a waste of time ::)
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beneficial or a waste of time ::)
Pull ups = best exercise ever .
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Definitely beneficial.
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Pull ups = best exercise ever .
agreed. They make my back sore in a way nothing else does.
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they work
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Pull ups = best exercise ever .
And dips for the upper body.
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Arnold wrote this in one of his books about pull-ups, do 50 reps however you can, whether it is 1X50 or 5X10. They're hard until you get used to them.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=538485.0;attach=567333;image)
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Arnold wrote this in one of his books about pull-ups, do 50 reps however you can, whether it is 1X50 or 5X10. They're hard until you get used to them.
I did that for years and years every single back work out using that same advice. I have been lately focusing only on Lat Pulldowns instead and find them to be much better than pullups. I find pullups to be overrated. I am very good at them though.
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I did that for years and years every single back work out using that same advice. I have been lately focusing only on Lat Pulldowns instead and find them to be much better than pullups. I find pullups to be overrated. I am very good at them though.
TA, do you feel like you can get more of a contraction and squeeze when doing lat pulldowns due to more control over the weight, as opposed to law pulldowns? I mean, both sort of mimic the same motion, just in different directions.
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I did that for years and years every single back work out using that same advice. I have been lately focusing only on Lat Pulldowns instead and find them to be much better than pullups. I find pullups to be overrated. I am very good at them though.
I'm a bit lazy about my workouts. Like you, I prefer lat pull-downs to pull-ups. Nautilus weight assisted pull-ups are fine for me. My lats don't look like Arnold's did, but then neither do his.
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TA, do you feel like you can get more of a contraction and squeeze when doing lat pulldowns due to more control over the weight, as opposed to law pulldowns? I mean, both sort of mimic the same motion, just in different directions.
Totally! Plus you can do drop sets and really focus on the muscles. Bring down and pause and really focusing on pulling with the lower arms and elbows while keeping forearms and biceps out of it as much as possible. With pullups, its possible to do that, but the biceps will always fatigue first and have a lot of involvement.
The way I do pullups is different than what I see most people doing. Most people I see short stroke them whereas I would always go all the way up and all the way down even pausing just a second at the bottom. Even doing that, which is the way I always have, still is not as good as the Lat Pulldown for me. The whole Pullups are better than Lat Pulldowns is a bunch of nonsense bullshit.
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Totally! Plus you can do drop sets and really focus on the muscles. Bring down and pause and really focusing on pulling with the lower arms and elbows while keeping forearms and biceps out of it as much as possible. With pullups, its possible to do that, but the biceps will always fatigue first and have a lot of involvement.
The way I do pullups is different than what I see most people doing. Most people I see short stroke them whereas I would always go all the way up and all the way down even pausing just a second at the bottom. Even doing that, which is the way I always have, still is not as good as the Lat Pulldown for me. The whole Pullups are better than Lat Pulldowns is a bunch of nonsense bullshit.
Agreed, that your biceps and for me, forearms, give out first when doing pullups. Yes, I do a pullup in a similar manner. Actually, today I worked back and started off with lat pulldowns. I decided to do wide grip pullups (assisted) last in my work out. I was wondering how it would feel doing them last.
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Agreed, that your biceps and for me, forearms, give out first when doing pullups. Yes, I do a pullup in a similar manner. Actually, today I worked back and started off with lat pulldowns. I decided to do wide grip pullups (assisted) last in my work out. I was wondering how it would feel doing them last.
Probably like shit. The thought of "why am I doing this" may have even crossed your mind. haha
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Probably like shit. The thought of "why am I doing this" may have even crossed your mind. haha
It definitely felt awkward. I am never opposed to trying something new just for the hell of it. But at that point of the work out, it was really difficult to get a squeeze or a pump.
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Totally! Plus you can do drop sets and really focus on the muscles. Bring down and pause and really focusing on pulling with the lower arms and elbows while keeping forearms and biceps out of it as much as possible. With pullups, its possible to do that, but the biceps will always fatigue first and have a lot of involvement.
The way I do pullups is different than what I see most people doing. Most people I see short stroke them whereas I would always go all the way up and all the way down even pausing just a second at the bottom. Even doing that, which is the way I always have, still is not as good as the Lat Pulldown for me. The whole Pullups are better than Lat Pulldowns is a bunch of nonsense bullshit.
It depends on who you are. Pullups work better for me, especially going all the way down and getting the maximum stretch and contraction on the way up.
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To be fair most people use lat pulldowns not because it works better for them but because they are lazy and or aren't strong enough for pullups. And to TA's other point you can do drop sets with pullups if you do them weighted.
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I always start my back workouts with pullups when I'm fresh. Always get more out of it. Learned that from Chris Cormier.
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Chins/pull-ups are among the best excersises I do them sometimes 3 times in my workout beginning Middle and end. Pull downs do not compare.... Most guys hate pull ups and chins because they are hard.
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Lat Pulldowns are more difficult in my opinion. Especially if you do ZERO rocking motion and do them just like this. Most people do not do them like this.
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This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I started doing Lat Pulldowns solely because Pullups had gotten too easy for me. I was using weight as well.
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Lat Pulldowns are more difficult in my opinion. Especially if you do ZERO rocking motion and do them just like this. Most people do not do them like this.
About as natural as sex in a bottle. What a pathetic lying schmoe!
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And dips for the upper body.
100% agree, Dips are a great exercise.
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I started doing Lat Pulldowns solely because Pullups had gotten too easy for me. I was using weight as well.
I can't do a pullup now that I'm a huge beast. My forearms give way.
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I prefer chin ups to pull ups. I don't train my arms anymore so I like the fact it gives the biceps a great workout and the stretch it gives my chest that I don't get with pull ups. I've started doing Gironda sternum chin ups too.
I generally believe that bodyweight exercises are all you need to develop a great upper body.
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I can't do a pullup now that I'm a huge beast. My forearms give way.
I hear you.
I'm as big as a house. When I try to do some chins I can't pull myself up, I pull the chinup bar(and the rest of the apparatus) down to where I am.
Too big and strong. Gym owner mad.
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I did that for years and years every single back work out using that same advice. I have been lately focusing only on Lat Pulldowns instead and find them to be much better than pullups. I find pullups to be overrated. I am very good at them though.
lat pulldown is vastly superior to pullup
you can feel every muscle tensing and contracting
when i go pullups i barely have a pump
during a set of pullups all you want to do is get your eyes above the bar, its an ego/number thing
the muscle isnt being worked
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Best workout each week for me is chest and back. Bench press and pull up supersets and then incline DB press and DB rows supersets. Ive developed great thickness.
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Best workout each week for me is chest and back. Bench press and pull up supersets and then incline DB press and DB rows supersets. Ive developed great thickness.
Yes Antagonistic split is great. Whole upper body is hit with chest and back.
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lat pulldown is vastly superior to pullup
you can feel every muscle tensing and contracting
when i go pullups i barely have a pump
during a set of pullups all you want to do is get your eyes above the bar, its an ego/number thing
the muscle isnt being worked
They're also dangerous if you're a larger than average person.
No one would do their first set of pulldowns with 200lbs (except some of the monsters, here).
Pull-ups are great when you're young. When middle aged, you're asking to tear something.
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(http://oi58.tinypic.com/2w4mbl1.jpg)
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Most pull-up ninjas are tiny tits
If you put your feet in a stool and squeeze up, contract your scaps and last at the top and then slowly lower then it becomes a great exercise but spastic swinging does very little.
Taking some weight on your feet means much more tension on the muscle throughout the lift since you don't use momentum, and you'll be able do do 8x8 or other loading schemes that don't really work with pull-ups
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They're also dangerous if you're a larger than average person.
No one would do their first set of pulldowns with 200lbs (except some of the monsters, here).
Pull-ups are great when you're young. When middle aged, you're asking to tear something.
its imperative to warmup the long head of the triceps before any pullup movement
most people dont do it and end up paying from it
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Most pull-up ninjas are tiny tits
If you put your feet in a stool and squeeze up, contract your scaps and last at the top and then slowly lower then it becomes a great exercise but spastic swinging does very little.
Taking some weight on your feet means much more tension on the muscle throughout the lift since you don't use momentum, and you'll be able do do 8x8 or other loading schemes that don't really work with pull-ups
In one of my old gyms, they had a machine called The Gravitron. It was sort of a hybrid pull-up/ pulldown with the weight stack serving as a counterweight to your bodyweight. You'd stand on a platform, grab the bar, pull up, and you were assisted by the amount of weight you chose. One of the few useful machines out there.
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Most pull-up ninjas are tiny tits
If you put your feet in a stool and squeeze up, contract your scaps and last at the top and then slowly lower then it becomes a great exercise but spastic swinging does very little.
Taking some weight on your feet means much more tension on the muscle throughout the lift since you don't use momentum, and you'll be able do do 8x8 or other loading schemes that don't really work with pull-ups
Yes, but many are very ripped and defined. Plus you develop agility within the movement. Look at
Frank Medrano
lat pulldown is vastly superior to pullup
you can feel every muscle tensing and contracting
when i go pullups i barely have a pump
during a set of pullups all you want to do is get your eyes above the bar, its an ego/number thing
the muscle isnt being worked
There is no proof that lat pulls are. There are proponents for each.
And actually, you last part, that seems like a justification for not doing it. If one cannot pull one's head above the bar, then one is pathetic.
Two of the most subpar backs in terms of detail are Nasser and Cutler, and they did lat pull downs, yet couldn't do 1 pull up.
Kai Green and Phil Heath, along with Joel Stubbs have highly detailed backs, and start off with pull ups.
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Most pull-up ninjas are tiny tits
Doesn't give someone the excuse not to do them because they are "big"
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beneficial or a waste of time ::)
Probably one of the best exercises ever. That and Dumbbells SEALFIT manmakers.
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Bill Pearl and his bigger brother Harry were big on chins. I hooked up with Harry after a long illness and he started me with chins/dips/squats. He told me to do 10 perfect chins...I told him I could only do one. I did 10. One every 5 minutes. I worked up to 11 sets of 11. Then started adding a chain around waist with a 25er. As soon as I got up to 10 reps we added a second 25. A few years later I was doing 10 reps with a hundred....and same on the dips. Squats crept up to 405x10. If that's all you did...weighted chins/dips and squats you could build a decent physique.
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Probably one of the best exercises ever. That and Dumbbells SEALFIT manmakers.
lol @ your gimmick exercises.
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Lat Pulldowns are more difficult in my opinion. Especially if you do ZERO rocking motion and do them just like this. Most people do not do them like this.
not alot of rocking here
...
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I'm a bit lazy about my workouts. Like you, I prefer lat pull-downs to pull-ups. Nautilus weight assisted pull-ups are fine for me. My lats don't look like Arnold's did, but then neither do his.
Lol at last sentence. Never felt too much doing regular pullups or chins at my weight. Rack pullups worked well for me as did assissted pullups but assissted pullup machine in women's weights area of my gym so fuck that.
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ive seen guys who only did chins and pull ups and had backs from hell,im talking freaky ass backs. this was in the joint tho and there where some genetics freaks in the mix
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pull ups with full range are excellent for real functional upper body strength. I also like them after deads, as it feels like it decompresses the spine a bit doing some dead hang pullups. Lat pulldowns definitely have their place... I usually do them at the end of the back workout as a burnout exercise with lower weight.
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Rack pullups worked well for me as did assissted pullups but assissted pullup machine in women's weights area of my gym so fuck that.
Yeah, that would kill it for me too. Don't want to look like a pussy! :(
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There is no proof that lat pulls are. There are proponents for each.
And actually, you last part, that seems like a justification for not doing it. If one cannot pull one's head above the bar, then one is pathetic.
Two of the most subpar backs in terms of detail are Nasser and Cutler, and they did lat pull downs, yet couldn't do 1 pull up.
Kai Green and Phil Heath, along with Joel Stubbs have highly detailed backs, and start off with pull ups.
im able to do a good 12 pullups with perfect form, chin above the bar, no swinging etc...
im just saying that doing pullups, for most people is an ego thing they want to impress the other member in the gym, presisely because of all those street workouts videos
every kid wants to do that shit, its trendy, looks badass
but bodybuilding wise its worthless
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pulls ups are worthless bodybuilding wise? what a crock of poo. Pull ups are an excellent back developer when done with good form.
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most people arent capable to do a decent amount of reps with good form
most top pros cant for example
heath is an exception
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Best back workout:
Chins: 3-4 x 8-12
Deadlifts: 4-5 x 3-6
Bent over rows: 3-4 x 6-10
Seated wide rows: 3-4 x 8-10
Boom!
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/True2006/Backsmall.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/True2006/media/Backsmall.jpg.html)
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your asshole is bigger than your back?
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Yes, not a good advert for chinning...
I've started doing them again, and underhand pullups for biceps, enjoying going full circle in my training, you have to warm up on lat pulldowns 1st if you want to protect againt tears
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Fundamental exercise. Unless you're 'husky' in which case you need special techniques and equipment suited for an advanced trainer. ::)
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One of the best back excercises ever , weighted without... A staple in my workout
Pull downs are for warm ups or a finisher.. I call that a bitch movement
NEVER pull downs over chins never
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One of the best back excercises ever , weighted without... A staple in my workout
Pull downs are for warm ups or a finisher.. I call that a bitch movement
NEVER pull downs over chins never
It IS a bitch movement not a real back movement. Chins all the way.
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Lat Pulldowns are more difficult in my opinion. Especially if you do ZERO rocking motion and do them just like this. Most people do not do them like this.
Most people do not aspire to be as un-muscular as that
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One of the best back excercises ever , weighted without... A staple in my workout
Pull downs are for warm ups or a finisher.. I call that a bitch movement
NEVER pull downs over chins never
Total nonsense.
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I've noticed that most of the fellows who do chins and pull-ups with relative ease at the gym are the slimmer dudes. Less weight to pull up, would be my guess. Form is everything in my opinion. If you can't do these exercises using good form, then start with something where you don't compromise form.
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Total nonsense.
Yes, the back muscles know instinctively if you are on a chinning bar as opposed to a lat pulldown machine. ::)
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Nonsence for you but not for me... I speak for myself I have a wig wide muscular back and it's all from chins barbell rows chins deadlifts and chins
Pull down is a bitch movement for me.. Warm up or a finishing movement .. That's it
And that works for me
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Nonsence for you but not for me... I speak for myself I have a wig wide muscular back and it's all from chins barbell rows chins deadlifts and chins
Pull down is a bitch movement for me.. Warm up or a finishing movement .. That's it
And that works for me
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Yes, the back muscles know instinctively if you are on a chinning bar as opposed to a lat pulldown machine. ::)
Yes, because pulling down the weight is different than pulling up your weight.
Also, many lat pull down machines have a pad to put your legs under, so you can in theory use more weight than you weigh or are used to, in a sense, cheating. You can't do that with a pull up, doing one full rep is all or nothing. Also, Pull ups help with grip strength. Shawn Ray would use straps because he said that his has bad grip strength.
Also, I would feel the exercise in my lats more with wide grip pull ups than with pull downs.
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I think pullups are superior because your body remains vertical. Most people lean back when doing pulldowns.
If I do pulldowns I do them like this @.50
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It IS a bitch movement not a real back movement. Chins all the way.
My thoughts exactly
A pump a squeeze movement... A warm up excersise ... I've never not done chins aside from the fact that chins are one of the best excersises for back. It also is more of a functional movement...
Most bbers are useless outside the gym couldn't clim over a wall if they were being chased by dog for instance
My muscles aren't just for show they are functional
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It IS a bitch movement not a real back movement. Chins all the way.
::)
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Yes, because pulling down the weight is different than pulling up your weight.
Also, many lat pull down machines have a pad to put your legs under, so you can in theory use more weight than you weigh or are used to, in a sense, cheating. You can't do that with a pull up, doing one full rep is all or nothing. Also, Pull ups help with grip strength. Shawn Ray would use straps because he said that his has bad grip strength.
Also, I would feel the exercise in my lats more with wide grip pull ups than with pull downs.
Of course... There is no comparison I laugh at guys I see in the gym leaning back pulling that stack down but would not dare go to the chiming bar because they are not able to do even 6 chins
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Can't remember why I stopped doing chins might work back to doing them again. Probably had an injury as usual.
I never felt I could squeeze muscle on it but I suppose I don't on deadlifts either and they are my favourite back exercise.
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For those who struggle with chinups/pullups. try super-slow chinups/pullups on the assisted chin-dip machine at your gym if your gym has that machine. 10 seconds positive..5 seconds negative. Aim for failure at 5-6 reps. Do these super-slow chins for 6 weeks and then go back to regular chinups/pullups. Your reps on regular chinup/pullups should increase by roughly 30-50%. It works!!
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My thoughts exactly
A pump a squeeze movement... A warm up excersise ... I've never not done chins aside from the fact that chins are one of the best excersises for back. It also is more of a functional movement...
Most bbers are useless outside the gym couldn't clim over a wall if they were being chased by dog for instance
My muscles aren't just for show they are functional
How often have you been chased by a dog? ;)
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For those who struggle with chinups/pullups. try super-slow chinups/pullups on the assisted chin-dip machine at your gym if your gym has that machine. 10 seconds positive..5 seconds negative. Aim for failure at 5-6 reps. Do these super-slow chins for 6 weeks and then go back to regular chinups/pullups. Your reps on regular chinup/pullups should increase by roughly 30-50%. It works!!
Sounds like a plan.
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For those who struggle with chinups/pullups. try super-slow chinups/pullups on the assisted chin-dip machine at your gym if your gym has that machine. 10 seconds positive..5 seconds negative. Aim for failure at 5-6 reps. Do these super-slow chins for 6 weeks and then go back to regular chinups/pullups. Your reps on regular chinup/pullups should increase by roughly 30-50%. It works!!
getting 'good' at pullups is about learning how to maximize leverage and momentum. Or losing weight.
unless you've never trained your lats then its not about getting stronger, its about learning the groove of the lift by doing the lift.
I can currently do 8 slow, controlled pullups. I could 'improve' my numbers by cheating or maybe becoming more neurologically efficient at the movement but I'm not going to dramatically increase my lat strength unless I up the dose
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It is interesting that some jobs which require a degree of physical agility and strength measured this by how many chin-ups a recruit could do. I believe in most cases this exercise was dropped because by-in-large women cannot do chin ups. This flies in the face of equal opportunity employment and gender discrimination. Pushups and sit-ups are still required of all applicants though.
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Boom!
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j221/True2006/Backsmall.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/True2006/media/Backsmall.jpg.html)
What's the name of this pose, rear double ass cheek?
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How often have you been chased by a dog? ;)
You trying to imply a Hebrew poster is incriminating himself, using chins as a means of evading capture?
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I've noticed that most of the fellows who do chins and pull-ups with relative ease at the gym are the slimmer dudes. Less weight to pull up, would be my guess. Form is everything in my opinion. If you can't do these exercises using good form, then start with something where you don't compromise form.
it was that way when I was in the Marine Corps as well. Most of the guys with a perfect PFT with 20 pullups were very small guys. I struggled with 5 in boot and 10 later on. Of course it doesnt help that youre so weak and beaten down all the time.
Its funny, because the 20+ pullup guys always struggled humping gear and ammo, so while they looked great on the physical fitness test, when we actually went out and had to do grunt shit, they were falling out, passing out, unable to hump their load...
i had to help carry a small kid up a hill called the Reaper in boot, he fell out, couldnt keep up, so we split his gear off and handed it to another 'fat body' (military term for anyone over their BMI charts specified weight), and grabbed him and carried his ass uo the hill in addition to all our gear.
Kid was a cocky ass former track stat when we got there, straight out of highschool. Ill never forget the SDIs look and browbeating he gave that kid when he saw us fat bodies cresting the ridge carrying mr 140lb perfect PFT track star. Kid got a brutal gut check.
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You trying to imply a Hebrew poster is incriminating himself, using chins as a means of evading capture?
Ha ha funny
1 I'm not a Hebrew 2
2. If run from no man if your lost was inferring police never been arrested never seen the inside of a cell
How about actually addressing the issue of pull-ups
:-)
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I must have you mixed up with another Hebrew poster with similar name, im all for pullups as I've stated earlier on yo..
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Good man we are in agreement
Pull-ups/ chins all the way
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getting 'good' at pullups is about learning how to maximize leverage and momentum. Or losing weight.
unless you've never trained your lats then its not about getting stronger, its about learning the groove of the lift by doing the lift.
I can currently do 8 slow, controlled pullups. I could 'improve' my numbers by cheating or maybe becoming more neurologically efficient at the movement but I'm not going to dramatically increase my lat strength unless I up the dose
Read reply #38.
Do another 8 reps at end of the session. Now you have done 16.
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I guarantee if you weight 230-300 and do chin well you will have a good back ever grip the under hand curl grip is great for arms to hell pe
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Was this debate settled?
Pullups are mostly an exercise for the smaller guys in the Hulkotron's experience.
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I guarantee if you weight 230-300 and do chin well you will have a good back ever grip the under hand curl grip is great for arms to hell pe
Kali Muscle can do pull ups and muscle ups really well.