Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Schmoff on November 04, 2014, 07:44:05 PM
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;D
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In before someone says,
Drugs are just the finishing touch.
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(http://how-rich.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Frank-Fritz-attrb-History-Fair-Use.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/NQxKLpp.png)
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;D
That's ''The Coach''
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just another in a long line of reasons why 'professional bodybuilding' is a joke.
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That's ''The Coach''
:-\
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Where is all the muscle gone?
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A regular Oompah Loompah of muscular midget might.
Turdlet of peace. Put a penguin suit on him.
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lkooks like he's got one leg in the water! he's just pushing his gutt out on purpose the guys in the backround are laughing at him
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shrunk the fuck up and fat as hell.
good for him. probably smart actually, health wise.
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Slurp
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cant you see he is fooling around and pushing his stomach out ?
guy is a freak
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(http://i.imgur.com/NQxKLpp.png)
Photoshop of peace. Everyone knows Jay has no veins.
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Didn't he compete recently ? In the last couple of months ? Kinda crazy how small his chest and shoulders got in that short amount of time.
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Didn't he compete recently ? In the last couple of months ? Kinda crazy how small his chest and shoulders got in that short amount of time.
he is also about 25% bf.
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Didn't he compete recently ? In the last couple of months ? Kinda crazy how small his chest and shoulders got in that short amount of time.
Competed in the 2014 Prague Pro
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Competed in the 2014 Prague Pro
Unpopular opinion, but he looks great here.
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Didn't he compete recently ? In the last couple of months ? Kinda crazy how small his chest and shoulders got in that short amount of time.
When you come off, you lose everything and then SOME. That's just what happens. It comes off FAST depending on how long it takes for the drugs to clear from your system fully.
Some pro bodybuilders have come off and had a little something left, but generally they all look like shit off compared to even natural guys. Usually because they don't have the natural androgen levels (Testosterone to Estrogen) to promote and maintain substantial lean mass to fat ratio. Looking at the science behind it, you can understand why it's not possible to look good off the drugs no matter if you "keep training" with a "good diet". Stupid talk on steroid boards giving kids false hope.
These guys are abusing shit. DHT derivatives etc. They all cause epic shut down (Masteron, Tren, EQ, Winny all DHT derivatives shut you down badly. Yeah you still function with the Test base, but when they all come out, you are shut down to hell). The fat stores intra-muscularly mostly when you come off gear (and it's especially obvious when they try to get lean again), rather than between the skin and muscle in the usual way. That's why they all look like shit off no matter what they do.
Without the gear, the male body is running on empty. It's no longer about the gym or about your food, you just become medically fucked up because you destroyed your natural androgens. The true key to building muscle and losing fat in the absence of gear. The gym is the least of your worries.
A lot of them don't even know what they are truly getting themselves into, or don't care. Fucking stupid.
ON a side note, even as little as 1 cycle for 2-3 weeks can cause a long term fuck up to your body (not for everyone, but how the fuck would you know if it will happen to you or not), which is why those who decide to use anything hormonal should just lock themselves in and throw away the key.
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Photoshop of peace. Everyone knows Jay has no veins.
LOL, what is with this shitty photshopping everywhere, they are starting to look like aliens.
are there actually people who aspire to looking like a vascular brown lump of play-doh.
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When you come off, you lose everything and then SOME. That's just what happens.
Some pro bodybuilders have come off and had a little something left, but generally they all look like shit off compared to even natural guys. Usually because they don't have the natural androgen levels (Testosterone to Estrogen) to promote and maintain substantial lean mass to fat ratio. These guys are abusing shit. DHT derivatives etc. they cause epic shut down. The fat stores intra-muscularly mostly when you come off gear (and it's especially obvious when they try to get lean again), rather than between the skin and muscle. That's why they all look like shit off no matter what they do.
I disagree. I use ... and I compete ... and know several that do the same. None of us lose that much THAT quick. Especially if your diet is in order.
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How long do you go off for? Try going off for a year or more (preferably 2 years, but 1 is usually enough). Completely off. And then compare it to where you were when you started (in terms of body fat and muscle mass, not just your weight on the scale).
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epitome of health
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How long do you go off for? Try going off for a year or more (preferably 2 years, but 1 is usually enough). Completely off. And then compare it to where you were when you started (in terms of body fat and muscle mass, not just your weight on the scale).
I agree. Besides genetic response drugs are def not the finishing touch
Many bbers never had a natural foundation to begin with so when the drugs are stopped all is gone
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I agree. Besides genetic response drugs are def not the finishing touch
Many bbers never had a natural foundation to begin with so when the drugs are stopped all is gone
The sad thing is, even those who had the foundation will ruin that foundation when they're off, because when you come off the drugs, it's a very complex process that's occurring to strip all that muscle off. It's not just muscle "melting away". Test is down. E is up, Estradiol running rampant. Thyroid hormone gets affected, may things are happening that science can't even really tell you accurately since no one but a bodybuilder is stupid enough to use a shit load of anabolics in ridiculous combinations to get as big and lean as possible.
The body just gets destroyed after a bodybuilder retires. A foundation becomes a moot point. A "foundation" should really be the finished product. Not a "base" to blast gear off of.
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How long do you go off for? Try going off for a year or more (preferably 2 years, but 1 is usually enough). Completely off. And then compare it to where you were when you started (in terms of body fat and muscle mass, not just your weight on the scale).
I went back and re-read your post. And, quite honestly, your spot on. I took a year off ( just went back on a few weeks ago ). And in that time I went from 260 lbs or so at around 10 % bf to 260 lbs with 20 % bodyfat. Body composition completely changed. And now I am 270 at around 15 % bf after having " got back in the game " ( diet, training, supplements ).
So I agree with you. But still kinda crazy that Jose shrunk that quickly within a couple months. It's almost as if these these bodybuilders of today are just inflated with water.
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I went back and re-read your post. And, quite honestly, your spot on. I took a year off ( just went back on a few weeks ago ). And in that time I went from 260 lbs or so at around 10 % bf to 260 lbs with 20 % bodyfat. Body composition completely changed. And now I am 270 at around 15 % bf after having " got back in the game " ( diet, training, supplements ).
So I agree with you. But still kinda crazy that Jose shrunk that quickly within a couple months. It's almost as if these these bodybuilders of today are just inflated with water.
The thing is, the way the drugs work is mostly in composition changes. A lot of guys still hold the same weight when they come off, but the mass is gone... the steroids build this distinct level of muscle DENSITY whereby all the fat between the muscle is burned off and replaced with the new fibers and thus you essentially become a more muscular 260lbs. Try to think of it like putting air in a balloon vs putting concrete in a balloon. That's why you "feel" heavier on cycle as well. It's that density.. Muscle is denser and hence, "feels" heavier. That's exactly what is happening... the muscle just gets more dense, eliminating the body fat as well in the process. Of course, the muscle gets bigger as well, but it's really the density that allows us to distinguish between say for example the smaller guys who are like 190lbs ripped (at say 6ft) and on drugs vs the smaller guys who are 190lbs ripped who are not on drugs. You can usually always tell the difference. The naturally ripped 190 just looks "hollow" rather than SOLID.
You can obviously still gain weight through the added mass as you up the dose and build a lot of new fibers, but at some point that weight gain stops, and then you just get more and more dense... That's why bodybuilders say they're getting "harder" during prep. That's part of what causes the "hardening" effect, along with the all-day pumps you get.
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just another in a long line of reasons why 'professional bodybuilding' is a joke.
And bodybuilders still argue that bodybuilding is not all drugs LOL
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The thing is, the way the drugs work is mostly in composition changes. A lot of guys still hold the same weight when they come off, but the mass is gone... the steroids build this distinct level of muscle DENSITY whereby all the fat between the muscle is burned off and replaced with the new fibers and thus you essentially become a more muscular 260lbs. Try to think of it like putting air in a balloon vs putting concrete in a balloon. That's why you "feel" heavier on cycle as well. It's that density.. Muscle is denser and hence, "feels" heavier. That's exactly what is happening... the muscle just gets more dense, eliminating the body fat as well in the process. Of course, the muscle gets bigger as well, but it's really the density that allows us to distinguish between say for example the smaller guys who are like 190lbs ripped (at say 6ft) and on drugs vs the smaller guys who are on 190lbs ripped who are not on drugs. You can usually always tell the difference.
You can obviously still gain weight through the added mass as you up the dose and build a lot of new fibers, but at some point that weight gain stops, and then you just get more and more dense... That's why bodybuilders say they're getting "harder" during prep. That's part of what causes the "hardening" effect, along with the all-day pumps you get.
Solid post :)
Do you feel insulin and growth hormone play their roles as well ?? For instance, isn't gh supposed to create new muscle fibers ? Perhaps one could use gh as a bridge ?
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Solid post :)
Do you feel insulin and growth hormone play their roles as well ?? For instance, isn't gh supposed to create new muscle fibers ? Perhaps one could use gh as a bridge ?
Yeah, the Growth Hormone is so anabolic in combination with AAS because it creates brand new cells, whereas AAS just makes the cells bigger. So, again back to the baloons. With AAS you're blowing up the balloon with concrete.. but then what if we added new balloons and blew them all up at the same time....
Insulin just shuttles nutrients extremely quickly and efficiently into the muscles eliminating the limits to which the muscles grow that exist even just using AAS alone. It's insanely anabolic. Following the balloon analogy, in a way you're increasing the balloon's capacity to hold concrete and making it bigger at the same time, creating a gigantic muscle. In combination with AAS and GH, training a couple days a week as you normally would naturally, and a ton of food. Well, you can get pretty big in the span of only a few months even.
A lot of the pros built all the competitive size they all have in less than 3 years. 5 years is a good solid number for continuous use of all these compounds. They then essentially maintain that size with elevated testosterone on a regular bases (Test in any of the available esters) and add the hardeners during the "cutting" phase because those DHT derivatives dry out the physique due to anti-estrogenic nature (they don't aromatise, so you don't get the bloat etc) and harden it in a different way than simply running Sustanon alone would (DHT is way more anabolic than Test). In 5 years they were already big enough that the additional mass didn't really matter. Just look at a lot of guys like Dexter and Jay.. they've looked the same for decades. Sometimes bigger and less conditioned. Sometimes a little smaller. But, essentially look the same to a non-trained eye. Those who grew slower, either had a slower genetic response, or didn't use enough.
(edit here: should also add that just like with natural training, with AAS of course you get the freaks like Ronnie who genetically have the capacity to blow up better. And this is where genetic response to drugs comes in. This is the core of pro bodybuilding. genetic response to the drugs in whatever combination that proves to be the most anabolic for you along with the food intake... but anyone can eat... and yeah, the training... but anyone can train. Then of course you factor in the genetic shape of the muscles, insertions and all that jazz that makes you look better than your friend, when you're both natural and untrained anyways. Just genetic variations in the joints, muscle shape andinsertions and skeletal structure).
So in summary:
AAS: Bigger cells
GH: New cells
Insulin: Considerably bigger cells, with added capacity for new size
When you understand why these guys look the way they do, you look at pro bodybuilding with completely different eyes.
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DHT is NOT anabolic at all, its just a strongly androgenic byproduct of testosterone.
If it was the case people would grow out of taking proviron, which isnt the case sadly.
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DHT is NOT anabolic at all, its just a strongly androgenic byproduct of testosterone.
If it was the case people would grow out of taking proviron, which isnt the case sadly.
DHT is proven to be anabolic (it does have some anabolic activity)... but its AAS derivatives (Anadrol, Tren etc) are a lot more anabolic than pure Testosterone. Tren is around 500 times more anabolic.
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When you understand why these guys look the way they do, you look at pro bodybuilding with completely different eyes.
But you are still looking. Why is that?
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But you are still looking. Why is that?
The same reason you go to a circus. To see freaks.
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Yeah, the Growth Hormone is so anabolic in combination with AAS because it creates brand new cells, whereas AAS just makes the cells bigger. So, again back to the baloons. With AAS you're blowing up the balloon with concrete.. but then what if we added new balloons and blew them all up at the same time....
Insulin just shuttles nutrients extremely quickly and efficiently into the muscles eliminating the limits to which the muscles grow that exist even just using AAS alone. It's insanely anabolic. Following the balloon analogy, in a way you're increasing the balloon's capacity to hold concrete and making it bigger at the same time, creating a gigantic muscle. In combination with AAS and GH, training a couple days a week as you normally would naturally, and a ton of food. Well, you can get pretty big in the span of only a few months even.
A lot of the pros built all the competitive size they all have in less than 3 years. 5 years is a good solid number for continuous use of all these compounds. They then essentially maintain that size with elevated testosterone on a regular bases (Test in any of the available esters) and add the hardeners during the "cutting" phase because those DHT derivatives dry out the physique due to anti-estrogenic nature (they don't aromatise, so you don't get the bloat etc) and harden it in a different way than simply running Sustanon alone would (DHT is way more anabolic than Test). In 5 years they were already big enough that the additional mass didn't really matter. Just look at a lot of guys like Dexter and Jay.. they've looked the same for decades. Sometimes bigger and less conditioned. Sometimes a little smaller. But, essentially look the same to a non-trained eye. Those who grew slower, either had a slower genetic response, or didn't use enough.
(edit here: should also add that just like with natural training, with AAS of course you get the freaks like Ronnie who genetically have the capacity to blow up better. And this is where genetic response to drugs comes in. This is the core of pro bodybuilding. genetic response to the drugs in whatever combination that proves to be the most anabolic for you along with the food intake... but anyone can eat... and yeah, the training... but anyone can train. Then of course you factor in the genetic shape of the muscles, insertions and all that jazz that makes you look better than your friend, when you're both natural and untrained anyways. Just genetic variations in the joints, muscle shape andinsertions and skeletal structure).
So in summary:
AAS: Bigger cells
GH: New cells
Insulin: Considerably bigger cells, with added capacity for new size
When you understand why these guys look the way they do, you look at pro bodybuilding with completely different eyes.
Very cool explanation. And I'm impressed that you can take a somewhat complex subject and make it very easy to understand. Will be saving this post of yours, Cutlet. You need to post more, my friend.
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Very cool explanation. And I'm impressed that you can take a somewhat complex subject and make it very easy to understand. Will be saving this post of yours, Cutlet. You need to post more, my friend.
Not to say anyone who decides to take all these drugs is going to look good (Bostin Loyd looks like shit and always has frankly even on stage at his "best", considering what he takes), but with enough commitment to consistent use of the drugs in the right combinations and just training all the time as you normally would naturally (4 days a week is enough...) + eating more, and you can get pretty far... The problem people (people being, dedicated naturals with a liberal view on gear use) face is, no one really wants to look like the pros do. Not many people want to sentence themselves to a lifetime of dependency on drugs, and a lot of people just don't want to be associated with the social stigma of being an obvious steroid user. It's the stigma, the fear of needles and the side effects, both short and long term, media hysteria etc that really puts most people off.
Also diminishing returns with regards to the doses kicks in much earlier than people would expect for many people... There's only so much of the drugs the body can use... People doing 10 grams etc just wasting their time.
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DHT is proven to be anabolic (it does have some anabolic activity)... but its AAS derivatives (Anadrol, Tren etc) are a lot more anabolic than pure Testosterone. Tren is around 500 times more anabolic.
DHT derivatives (winstrol, masteron, primo, anavar) are actually much weaker drugs than the aromatizing one and the 19-nors
Most of those can be used by WOMEN
only exception is anadrol, on paper its a DHT but actually very estrogenic
take two people, put one on a 8 week test prop cycle (100mg ED), and the other on a 8 week mast prop cycle (100mg ED too)
at the end of the cycle the one using test will have gained much much more muscle than the masteron
by the way tren is not a DHT derivative its a 19-nor
and probably the strongest injectable there is
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DHT derivatives (winstrol, masteron, primo, anavar) are actually much weaker drugs than the aromatizing one and the 19-nors
Most of those can be used by WOMEN
only exception is anadrol, on paper its a DHT but actually very estrogenic
take two people, put one on a 8 week test prop cycle (100mg ED), and the other on a 8 week mast prop cycle (100mg ED too)
at the end of the cycle the one using test will have gained much much more muscle than the masteron
by the way tren is not a DHT derivative its a 19-nor
and probably the strongest injectable there is
Hmm, good insight. Yes you're right about the DHT derivatives being weaker. What I was thinking of was 19-nor (Tren) being more anabolic...
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Yeah, the Growth Hormone is so anabolic in combination with AAS because it creates brand new cells, whereas AAS just makes the cells bigger. So, again back to the baloons. With AAS you're blowing up the balloon with concrete.. but then what if we added new balloons and blew them all up at the same time....
Insulin just shuttles nutrients extremely quickly and efficiently into the muscles eliminating the limits to which the muscles grow that exist even just using AAS alone. It's insanely anabolic. Following the balloon analogy, in a way you're increasing the balloon's capacity to hold concrete and making it bigger at the same time, creating a gigantic muscle. In combination with AAS and GH, training a couple days a week as you normally would naturally, and a ton of food. Well, you can get pretty big in the span of only a few months even.
A lot of the pros built all the competitive size they all have in less than 3 years. 5 years is a good solid number for continuous use of all these compounds. They then essentially maintain that size with elevated testosterone on a regular bases (Test in any of the available esters) and add the hardeners during the "cutting" phase because those DHT derivatives dry out the physique due to anti-estrogenic nature (they don't aromatise, so you don't get the bloat etc) and harden it in a different way than simply running Sustanon alone would (DHT is way more anabolic than Test). In 5 years they were already big enough that the additional mass didn't really matter. Just look at a lot of guys like Dexter and Jay.. they've looked the same for decades. Sometimes bigger and less conditioned. Sometimes a little smaller. But, essentially look the same to a non-trained eye. Those who grew slower, either had a slower genetic response, or didn't use enough.
(edit here: should also add that just like with natural training, with AAS of course you get the freaks like Ronnie who genetically have the capacity to blow up better. And this is where genetic response to drugs comes in. This is the core of pro bodybuilding. genetic response to the drugs in whatever combination that proves to be the most anabolic for you along with the food intake... but anyone can eat... and yeah, the training... but anyone can train. Then of course you factor in the genetic shape of the muscles, insertions and all that jazz that makes you look better than your friend, when you're both natural and untrained anyways. Just genetic variations in the joints, muscle shape andinsertions and skeletal structure).
So in summary:
AAS: Bigger cells
GH: New cells
Insulin: Considerably bigger cells, with added capacity for new size
When you understand why these guys look the way they do, you look at pro bodybuilding with completely different eyes.
For a self confessed natty you seem to be pretty well versed in the use of hormones.
Why the interest in something you are not interested in?
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For a self confessed natty you seem to be pretty well versed in the use of hormones.
Why the interest in something you are not interested in?
"natty" is a subjective term. I use everything that isn't an exogenous hormone or a precursor to one. The reason I refrain from using them is because of the dependency on using them just to maintain. When you stop, you lose the benefits. And the benefits are just too many to deal with losing just because you can't use the drug anymore.
I'm interested in them, because I find them fascinating. And I follow bodybuilding because I find it entertaining.
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"natty" is a subjective term. I use everything that isn't an exogenous hormone or a precursor to one. The reason I refrain from using them is because of the dependency on using them just to maintain. When you stop, you lose the benefits. And the benefits are just too many to deal with losing just because you can't use the drug anymore.
I'm interested in them, because I find them fascinating. And I follow bodybuilding because I find it entertaining.
nice work here cutlet..
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"natty" is a subjective term. I use everything that isn't an exogenous hormone or a precursor to one. The reason I refrain from using them is because of the dependency on using them just to maintain. When you stop, you lose the benefits. And the benefits are just too many to deal with losing just because you can't use the drug anymore.
I'm interested in them, because I find them fascinating. And I follow bodybuilding because I find it entertaining.
Interesting, whats your current "stack"?
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Interesting, whats your current "stack"?
Preworkout, Creatine and whey protein. I've tried the usual Prime, Triubulus, and have seen some benefit in using DAA. There's a noticeable benefit in using creatine. I'm able to get more reps on most lifts than if I didn't supplement with. But, I've trained without all of these as well, and whilst I notice a drop in performance (especially without pre workout), it's not big enough for me to depend on them to get my workouts in and make gains. Now if I could find a bodybuilder who can say the same about gear, even if he happened to be a genetic anomaly that can maintain the gains built with gear when he's off it, I'd still be impressed. Shit, even if you could still manage to get ripped and impressive at a lower body weight and look comparable to what you did when you were ripped on gear but smaller (and completely clean) I'd still be impressed. None of them can.
In before someone cites Levrone. Very unreliable source, even though he claims he did his first transformation "naturally", just look at what he looks like now compared to that transformation to give you an idea of whether he was actually drug free as he claimed. Slightly higher doses of TRT is not drug free.
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His organs are expanding.
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When you come off, you lose everything and then SOME. That's just what happens. It comes off FAST depending on how long it takes for the drugs to clear from your system fully.
Some pro bodybuilders have come off and had a little something left, but generally they all look like shit off compared to even natural guys. Usually because they don't have the natural androgen levels (Testosterone to Estrogen) to promote and maintain substantial lean mass to fat ratio. Looking at the science behind it, you can understand why it's not possible to look good off the drugs no matter if you "keep training" with a "good diet". Stupid talk on steroid boards giving kids false hope.
These guys are abusing shit. DHT derivatives etc. They all cause epic shut down (Masteron, Tren, EQ, Winny all DHT derivatives shut you down badly. Yeah you still function with the Test base, but when they all come out, you are shut down to hell). The fat stores intra-muscularly mostly when you come off gear (and it's especially obvious when they try to get lean again), rather than between the skin and muscle in the usual way. That's why they all look like shit off no matter what they do.
Without the gear, the male body is running on empty. It's no longer about the gym or about your food, you just become medically fucked up because you destroyed your natural androgens. The true key to building muscle and losing fat in the absence of gear. The gym is the least of your worries.
A lot of them don't even know what they are truly getting themselves into, or don't care. Fucking stupid.
ON a side note, even as little as 1 cycle for 2-3 weeks can cause a long term fuck up to your body (not for everyone, but how the fuck would you know if it will happen to you or not), which is why those who decide to use anything hormonal should just lock themselves in and throw away the key.
Jesus not this shit again. That's why you go on trt numbnuts. I'd rather be jacked 20-50 and then go on trt then be natty my whole life. Being natural is boring. It's not for everyone that is why you fucking stay on something even if it's just ten mg of dbols a day.
If you have your shit together a good job etc gear makes life a lot more fun. My personal plan which I have done successfully for the last decade is use moderate dose and then cruise when you need a break. I plan on doing this until 50. Once I'm 50 I will reavulate. If I'm having any health issues drop down to trt.
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Preworkout, Creatine and whey protein. I've tried the usual Prime, Triubulus, and have seen some benefit in using DAA. There's a noticeable benefit in using creatine. I'm able to get more reps on most lifts than if I didn't supplement with. But, I've trained without all of these as well, and whilst I notice a drop in performance (especially without pre workout), it's not big enough for me to depend on them to get my workouts in and make gains. Now if I could find a bodybuilder who can say the same about gear, even if he happened to be a genetic anomaly that can maintain the gains built with gear when he's off it, I'd still be impressed. Shit, even if you could still manage to get ripped and impressive at a lower body weight and look comparable to what you did when you were ripped on gear but smaller (and completely clean) I'd still be impressed. None of them can.
In before someone cites Levrone. Very unreliable source, even though he claims he did his first transformation "naturally", just look at what he looks like now compared to that transformation to give you an idea of whether he was actually drug free as he claimed. Slightly higher doses of TRT is not drug free.
Lol, fucking creatine, I knew you were going to write that.
Temp water bloat, it does absolutely fuck all.
You are critical about the temp benefits of steroids and losing all plus more when you come off.
Wake up call, bodybuilding is temporary, you can take all the supps you like but when you stop taking them and stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder it all comes off again.
You carry on spending all your money on bullshit test boosters and I will carry on a with a shot a week of test that costs less than a dollar.
Natty for the wrong reasons of peace.
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Hope the baby will be safely delivered, looks like he might even have twins! :D
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Lol, fucking creatine, I knew you were going to write that.
Temp water bloat, it does absolutely fuck all.
You are critical about the temp benefits of steroids and losing all plus more when you come off.
Wake up call, bodybuilding is temporary, you can take all the supps you like but when you stop taking them and stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder it all comes off again.
You carry on spending all your money on bullshit test boosters and I will carry on a with a shot a week of test that costs less than a dollar.
Natty for the wrong reasons of peace.
No kidding when I was natty and stopped training for a week I lost all my "gains" lol what gains a bit of abs and chest. Being on isn't for everyone but you can't knock it until you try it. It makes training worth it. You get what you put into your training. I use to bust my ass natty and barely looked like I lifted a weight with clothes on. My arms sucked ass. My arms are big now I look great year round. I'm healthy and feel great and I love the attention. It's actually everything I hoped for.
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Lol, fucking creatine, I knew you were going to write that.
Temp water bloat, it does absolutely fuck all.
You are critical about the temp benefits of steroids and losing all plus more when you come off.
Wake up call, bodybuilding is temporary, you can take all the supps you like but when you stop taking them and stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder it all comes off again.
You carry on spending all your money on bullshit test boosters and I will carry on a with a shot a week of test that costs less than a dollar.
Natty for the wrong reasons of peace.
Creatine works. I don't need it though. All these supps obviously become useless to you when you're blasting Test...
It doesn't "come off" when you stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder when you train naturally. Jabbing yourself every day or every other day just to maintain your look is, in my opinion, stupid and extremely laughable.
No kidding when I was natty and stopped training for a week I lost all my "gains" lol what gains a bit of abs and chest. Being on isn't for everyone but you can't knock it until you try it. It makes training worth it. You get what you put into your training. I use to bust my ass natty and barely looked like I lifted a weight with clothes on. My arms sucked ass. My arms are big now I look great year round. I'm healthy and feel great and I love the attention. It's actually everything I hoped for.
How many years did you train consistently for naturally? What was your diet? This just sounds like a cop-out... sounds like you just don't know how to train and eat properly.... Based on this post it just looks to me like you were looking for a shortcut and were impatient. Nothing wrong with that, but it just shows you have a weak mind.
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Preworkout, Creatine and whey protein. I've tried the usual Prime, Triubulus, and have seen some benefit in using DAA. There's a noticeable benefit in using creatine. I'm able to get more reps on most lifts than if I didn't supplement with. But, I've trained without all of these as well, and whilst I notice a drop in performance (especially without pre workout), it's not big enough for me to depend on them to get my workouts in and make gains. Now if I could find a bodybuilder who can say the same about gear, even if he happened to be a genetic anomaly that can maintain the gains built with gear when he's off it, I'd still be impressed. Shit, even if you could still manage to get ripped and impressive at a lower body weight and look comparable to what you did when you were ripped on gear but smaller (and completely clean) I'd still be impressed. None of them can.
In before someone cites Levrone. Very unreliable source, even though he claims he did his first transformation "naturally", just look at what he looks like now compared to that transformation to give you an idea of whether he was actually drug free as he claimed. Slightly higher doses of TRT is not drug free.
Have you tried not taking any of this shit for a while and monitoring your progress?
I suggest giving it a go if not.
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Have you tried not taking any of this shit for a while and monitoring your progress?
I've gone up to a year without supps and like I said the difference isn't big enough that I had to quit the gym due to lack of progress or being a shell of myself like gear users.
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Creatine works. I don't need it though. All these supps obviously become useless to you when you're blasting Test...
It doesn't "come off" when you stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder when you train naturally. Jabbing yourself every day or every other day just to maintain your look is, in my opinion, stupid and extremely laughable.
How many years did you train consistently for naturally? What was your diet? This just sounds like a cop-out... sounds like you just don't know how to train and eat properly.... Based on this post it just looks to me like you were looking for a shortcut and were impatient. Nothing wrong with that, but it just shows you have a weak mind.
I was far from weak minded. I was an athlete who was completely maxed out. I played sports 7-college. 3 sports a year in high school. When I played College football my mind really changed about being natural. I was training with a professional strength and conditioning coach putting a lot of time and energy into things. I was strong and fast but my weight didn't move and I didn't look the way I wanted. I grew up idiolizing action movies I new in my mind when I was like ten I was going to juice one day. It's always been my dream to be jacked.
Juicing did and it does everything I wanted it to do. There's been some bumps in the road but once you learn what you are doing it's relatively safe. I can maintain the look I want with test and deca and a little bit of masteron. All cheap and effective.
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I've gone up to a year without supps and like I said the difference isn't big enough that I had to quit the gym due to lack of progress or being a shell of myself like gear users.
Juicers who just give up and quit never really loved lifting the lifestyle to begin with. I mean who just gives up. If you need a break you hrt or come off for awhile not the end of the world.
I came off many times I trained harder when I came off. I lost size but eventually would reach homeostasis.
Coming off now would be hard because I'm ten years deep but why come completely off for good. One shot straight week isn't the end of the world.
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I was far from weak minded. I was an athlete who was completely maxed out. I played sports 7-college. 3 sports a year in high school. When I played College football my mind really changed about being natural. I was training with a professional strength and conditioning coach putting a lot of time and energy into things. I was strong and fast but my weight didn't move and I didn't look the way I wanted. I grew up idiolizing action movies I new in my mind when I was like ten I was going to juice one day. It's always been my dream to be jacked.
Juicing did and it does everything I wanted it to do. There's been some bumps in the road but once you learn what you are doing it's relatively safe. I can maintain the look I want with test and deca and a little bit of masteron. All cheap and effective.
Fair enough. I applaud you for being able to accept the fact that you need to self-medicate every day to maintain your image. Because in all likely hood your physique is a major part of who you are, and what people know you for, which is why you feel the need to juice to get it... it would be a shame if for some reason you couldn't carry on using steroids every week. Though I'm sure that will never happen..
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Creatine works. I don't need it though. All these supps obviously become useless to you when you're blasting Test...
It doesn't "come off" when you stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder when you train naturally. Jabbing yourself every day or every other day just to maintain your look is, in my opinion, stupid and extremely laughable.
Creatine works temporarily, it holds water in the cells, you stop taking it you lose the water , it does fuck all for muscle growth.
You keep banging on about gear users coming off and being a shadow of their former selves.
And?
Whats your point, you wont be a shadow of your former self because you are likely a shadow already.
Post a picture and lets have a look at what you have achieved.
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Fair enough. I applaud you for being able to accept the fact that you need to self-medicate every day to maintain your image. Because in all likely hood your physique is a major part of who you are, and what people know you for, which is why you feel the need to juice to get it... it would be a shame if for some reason you couldn't carry on using steroids every week. Though I'm sure that will never happen..
Fuck you with your passive aggressive bullshit.
Lets turn that around
You need to lift and take creatine to maintain your self image.
TBH Im pretty sure you are a gimmick account.
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I've gone up to a year without supps and like I said the difference isn't big enough that I had to quit the gym due to lack of progress or being a shell of myself like gear users.
I'm not arguing for steroids (I don't take them, not my thing) I'm just saying if all that stuff doesn't make a big difference then why bother with it?
Seems like a waste of money to me; I'd rather spend it on tasty food. But if you enjoy it then carry on.
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Fuck you with your passive aggressive bullshit.
Lets turn that around
You need to lift and take creatine to maintain your self image.
TBH Im pretty sure you are a gimmick account.
I don't need to explain to you why the level of dependency is completely different..
IN the absence of a gym, you have calisthenics to at least maintain. In the absence of steroids... you have... what to maintain?
I don't need to tell you why you don't need creatine to maintain which is what I and many other bodybuilders would consider the bare minimum a person should expect when lifting for appearance. No one lifts to regress.
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I'm not arguing for steroids (I don't take them, not my thing) I'm just saying if all that stuff doesn't make a big difference then why bother with it?
Seems like a waste of money to me; I'd rather spend it on tasty food. But if you enjoy it then carry on.
Guy has been here since 2011 and all he has ever contributed is anti steroid posts and attacked users.
Hes an asshole.
I dont suppose he has ever posted a pic, I would like to see what I could have achieved if I hadn't been such a cheat.
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I dont need to explain to you why the level of dependency is completely different..
IN the absence of a gym, you have calisthenics to at least maintain. In the absence of steroids... you have... what to maintain?
I competed onstage at 200lbs 1996, when I stopped training and stopped steroids my bodyweight stabled at 200lbs, granted I wasnt as hard and ripped but I wasnt fat either.
Can you explain why I didnt drop to 150lbs please?
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I don't need to explain to you why the level of dependency is completely different..
IN the absence of a gym, you have calisthenics to at least maintain. In the absence of steroids... you have... what to maintain?
I don't need to tell you why you don't need creatine to maintain which is what I and many other bodybuilders would consider the bare minimum a person should expect when lifting for appearance. No one lifts to regress.
You have failed to provide any evidence that you are in fact a bodybuilder.
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I competed onstage at 200lbs 1996, when I stopped training and stopped steroids my bodyweight stabled at 200lbs, granted I wasnt as hard and ripped but I wasnt fat either.
Can you explain why I didnt drop to 150lbs please?
Well if you're taking to compete at a high level body weight wise and condition wise, then there's no real problem here. Some people like to be freaky.
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Fair enough. I applaud you for being able to accept the fact that you need to self-medicate every day to maintain your image. Because in all likely hood your physique is a major part of who you are, and what people know you for, which is why you feel the need to juice to get it... it would be a shame if for some reason you couldn't carry on using steroids every week. Though I'm sure that will never happen..
An easy shot I can get legally every two weeks and look ten times better than I could naturally ya it's fine with me.
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Well if you're taking to compete at a high level body weight wise and condition wise, then there's no real problem here.
Another example of dumb reasoning.
Its justifiable to take steroids to compete but not to look good at the beach and bang hot chicks?
Seriously, a plastic fucking trophy and the "glory"
It always makes me laugh when people justify steroid use for competing but not for personal appearance.
Oh, and dont forget to post a picture gimmick.
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An easy shot I can get legally every two weeks and look ten times better than I could naturally ya it's fine with me.
If that's what you want to think, and you're positive that you could not get there naturally or get close, then you've already made up your mind that the only way you can obtain the physique you want is with gear. So then, yes, you need it to look good.
Sometimes that close is good enough that you shouldn't need to juice at all. For instance you get some guys who juice and are 180lbs at 5'11... pretty silly if you ask me.
Another example of dumb reasoning.
Its justifiable to take steroids to compete but not to look good at the beach and bang hot chicks?
Seriously, a plastic fucking trophy and the "glory"
It always makes me laugh when people justify steroid use for competing but not for personal appearance.
Oh, and dont forget to post a picture gimmick.
Well, you have a fair point. In that case, you're juicing for a useless plastic plastic trophy and "glory".
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If that's what you want to think, and you're positive that you could not get there naturally or get close, then you've already made up your mind that the only way you can obtain the physique you want is with gear. So then, yes, you need it to look good.
Sometimes that close is good enough that you shouldn't need to juice at all. For instance you get some guys who juice and are 180lbs at 5'11... pretty silly if you ask me.
But not silly if hes 260?
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But not silly if hes 260?
Of course. I may be wrong, but getting to a ripped 180lbs naturally isn't impossible for the vast majority of healthy young males.
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Of course. I may be wrong, but getting to a ripped 180lbs naturally isn't impossible for the vast majority of healthy young males.
there is a whole other thread here on a 'natural'doug miller at 190 lbs doing the unthinkable 'ripped stage ready fully natural lifetime'
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some of us are just more competetive! I actually knew from the age of 9-10 years old I would be a steroid user. I didnlt care about all those bullshit movies they would show us in health class. I just wanted to be the best! I remember way back in 1989-1990 there were rumors canseco was juicing way back then and he was my favorite so I thought it was what needed to be done to get into professional sports. I never got into professional sports because when i was a teenager it was close to the year 2000 and everybody was using gear and knew that's what it took. By 2000 I was 18 and I remember Mark Macguire and sammy sosa both juiced to the gills just cracking homeruns and we all knew they were on juice! It was obvious! their heads grew for christ sakes
I remeber one of the most obvious users was gary sheffiled not because he was having a great year but the fact his head got so fucking big and he himself was way bigger. dead giveaway then it was like it was almost expected to juice if you had a dream of being a pro athlete. lets not lie I am sure alot of us thought one day we would be pro athletes even if our parents told us diffrent.
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Of course. I may be wrong, but getting to a ripped 180lbs naturally isn't impossible for the vast majority of healthy young males.
You are wrong, it takes a special dedication to get ripped at 180 at 5'11, natty
I take it you are 5'11, what weight and BF% are you?
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(http://i.imgur.com/ZwIOsOA.jpg)
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Sheffield was on some good juice, I remember when he was like 35 he his .330 with 40-ish home runs 130 or so RBIs.
I think he was on the Braves at the time.
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You are wrong, it takes a special dedication to get ripped at 180 at 5'11, natty
I take it you are 5'11, what weight and BF% are you?
And that's precisely what this is all about... dedication. And the reward, is a maintainable physique, without the dependence on exogenous hormones. A hassle for some. But, not so much for others which is fair enough.
Also, it's not necessarily "impossible" to progress past perceived "limits". When does one consider it a "Limit"? After a month? A year? And without changing anything nutrition or training wise?
It's better to make slow progress, than it is to make fast progress, and then regress dramatically if you can't get hold of your steroids for whatever reason.
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And that's precisely what this is all about... dedication. And the reward, is a maintainable physique, without the dependence on exogenous hormones. A hassle for some. But, not so much for others which is fair enough.
But you cant attain it, you have failed to provide any evidence at all that you even lift FFS
You are toast here until you post a picture, 3 years of criticising people for taking steroids, put up or shut up gimmick.
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But you cant attain it, you have failed to provide any evidence at all that you even lift FFS
You are toast here until you post a picture, 3 years of criticising people for taking steroids, put up or shut up gimmick.
If you can post a picture of yourself after going off steroids for 2 years, I'll post one up of me currently. :)
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If you can post a picture of yourself after going off steroids for 2 years, I'll post one up of me currently. :)
It's not about me its about you and you constant criticism of others and their life choices
Now either post a picture or shut the fuck up.
Gimmick
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It's not about me its about you and you constant criticism of others and their life choices
Now either post a picture or shut the fuck up.
Gimmick
I'm sure you look better enhanced than most people would naturally. Another plastic trophy for you I guess. The question is, where would you be without the drugs. You may find out one day. Who knows. :)
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I'm sure you look better enhanced than most people would naturally. Another plastic trophy for you I guess. The question is, where would you be without the drugs. You may find out one day. Who knows. :)
Im convinced you are a gimmick, I have just checked your posting history, a big gap from 2012 to 2014
Your opinion on PJ Brawn has altered as well
PJ Brawn? Biggest cock gobbler in the industry.
PJ wasn't doing too badly before he decided to jump on gear. He's not exactly a genetic failure when it comes to his savvyness and personality, and he's not really compensating with that physique as much as a lot of pros and random desperate 20 something and 30 something year olds on steroid forums looking to "turn their life around" do. He runs a business, and has money. And, he has the mind and social skills to be about more than just his physique. And, he has all the considerations everyone who juices should make that I listed above down to a tee.
Not to talk of the fact that he understood the commitment before going on.
Gear is of course better than natural, but only if you understand the commitment fully and how it affects the people you choose to have around you and the nature of their feelings and perceptions towards you (do they care about anything other than your muscle? Will they look at you the same without it? If not, are you happy to become your physique, not just wear it?) and do not delude yourself that anything other than the drugs is in play. That's the core message I'm trying to get across.
Run along gimmick
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Im convinced you are a gimmick, I have just checked your posting history, a big gap from 2012 to 2014
Your opinion on PJ Brawn has altered as well
Run along gimmick
My posts shouldn't get to you so much, if I'm "just a gimmick". Not unless you hate the fact that I'm right.
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My posts shouldn't get to you so much, if I'm "just a gimmick". Not unless you hate the fact that I'm right.
They dont get to me, you are now outed, you did it yourself.
What are you right about?
The fact people look better than you because they use steroids and you dont?
Of course thats correct.
I fail to see what point you are trying to make, you are either a bored idiot with fuck all else to do or a failed user whos scared of needles?
Which is it?
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only on the Internet/GB will you find an expert in something he's never done, and be happy to tell you how to do it.
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only on the Internet/GB will you find an expert in something he's never done, and be happy to tell you how to do it.
Hes just a gimmick mate, its obvious.
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Seems hes fucked off for a while.
Guys argument seems to be that he can justify spending ludicrous amounts of money on bullshit supplements to look slightly better than natty but he has a problem with someone having a shot of test a week to look ten times better than a natty.
His argument then proceeds to make the assumption that when you stop having that shot a week you look worse then when you started taking the gear.
My point is, so fucking what?
We all look good for a period of time, then we lose it, its called reality.
So you have a choice, its spend thousands of dollars on useless supps and look 5% better, or have a shot a week at around £3 and look 50% better.
You then both stop what you were doing and you both regress back to where you started.
I think thats his point.
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They dont get to me, you are now outed, you did it yourself.
What are you right about?
The fact people look better than you because they use steroids and you dont?
Of course thats correct.
I fail to see what point you are trying to make, you are either a bored idiot with fuck all else to do or a failed user whos scared of needles?
Which is it?
Being able to abuse drugs doesn't make you better than anyone. It makes you a drug abuser... ;)
Like I said, 2 years off those drugs and you would be... nothing. Hell, I'm certain that going clean for as little as 2 months would have an extremely noticeable effect.
Seems hes fucked off for a while.
Guys argument seems to be that he can justify spending ludicrous amounts of money on bullshit supplements to look slightly better than natty but he has a problem with someone having a shot of test a week to look ten times better than a natty.
His argument then proceeds to make the assumption that when you stop having that shot a week you look worse then when you started taking the gear.
My point is, so fucking what?
We all look good for a period of time, then we lose it, its called reality.
So you have a choice, its spend thousands of dollars on useless supps and look 5% better, or have a shot a week at around £3 and look 50% better.
You then both stop what you were doing and you both regress back to where you started.
I think thats his point.
You still think discontinuing creatine is the same thing as discontinuing steroids. That's... tragic. :'(
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When you come off, you lose everything and then SOME. That's just what happens. It comes off FAST depending on how long it takes for the drugs to clear from your system fully.
Some pro bodybuilders have come off and had a little something left, but generally they all look like shit off compared to even natural guys. Usually because they don't have the natural androgen levels (Testosterone to Estrogen) to promote and maintain substantial lean mass to fat ratio. Looking at the science behind it, you can understand why it's not possible to look good off the drugs no matter if you "keep training" with a "good diet". Stupid talk on steroid boards giving kids false hope.
These guys are abusing shit. DHT derivatives etc. They all cause epic shut down (Masteron, Tren, EQ, Winny all DHT derivatives shut you down badly. Yeah you still function with the Test base, but when they all come out, you are shut down to hell). The fat stores intra-muscularly mostly when you come off gear (and it's especially obvious when they try to get lean again), rather than between the skin and muscle in the usual way. That's why they all look like shit off no matter what they do.
Without the gear, the male body is running on empty. It's no longer about the gym or about your food, you just become medically fucked up because you destroyed your natural androgens. The true key to building muscle and losing fat in the absence of gear. The gym is the least of your worries.
A lot of them don't even know what they are truly getting themselves into, or don't care. Fucking stupid.
ON a side note, even as little as 1 cycle for 2-3 weeks can cause a long term fuck up to your body (not for everyone, but how the fuck would you know if it will happen to you or not), which is why those who decide to use anything hormonal should just lock themselves in and throw away the key.
i also disagree.. have done it many times..came off, lost strength and some size, but stuck at it and slowly but surely came back to getting all of it, and then some..back. mind you, i never abused the stuff like the pros..only very moderate doses really.. 500-750mg test, 500-750 deca (or similar) and 15-25mg dbol a day...at the highest point of a cycle.
after a few cycles, even that dose is too much..the gains versus the usage get less and less. do this for 10-20 years and you get pretty decent.
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Being able to abuse drugs doesn't make you better than anyone. It makes you a drug abuser... ;)
Like I said, 2 years off those drugs and you would be... nothing. Hell, I'm certain that going clean for as little as 2 months would have an extremely noticeable effect.
You still think discontinuing creatine is the same thing as discontinuing steroids. That's... tragic. :'(
You are done gimmick ;)
end of story.
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The broscience steroid websites say that tren has a anabolic rating of 500 vs 100 for test. So it's 5 times more anabolic, not 500. ie. 100mg of tren = 500mg of test.
the guys a fucking retard.
never taken an injectable in his life but telling everyone how to do it and what happens when you stop.
he's best ignored.
I'll never understand what prompts people to talk abt shit they have no real clue abt. is it to fit in? sound important? make up for looking like shit irl?
the guys just another pumpster.
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Haha I missed the "500 times more anabolic" comment :D
That is unfortunate.
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it just enters my brain that dana layne bailey trained legs with raymond
there is no hope for her vastus medialis if raymond couldnt fix it
she is basically done
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=554654.0;attach=587069;image) (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130713113621/scratchpad/images/b/b6/FredFlintstone.png)
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Steroids and peptides are and always will be a part of bodybuilding. For every asshole that thinks it's cheating please do everyone a favor and go find a new message board to troll.