jose raymond offseason

[Cutlet767]

Have you tried not taking any of this shit for a while and monitoring your progress?

I've gone up to a year without supps and like I said the difference isn't big enough that I had to quit the gym due to lack of progress or being a shell of myself like gear users.

[spiro]

Creatine works. I don't need it though. All these supps obviously become useless to you when you're blasting Test...

It doesn't "come off" when you stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder when you train naturally. Jabbing yourself every day or every other day just to maintain your look is, in my opinion, stupid and extremely laughable.

How many years did you train consistently for naturally? What was your diet? This just sounds like a cop-out... sounds like you just don't know how to train and eat properly.... Based on this post it just looks to me like you were looking for a shortcut and were impatient. Nothing wrong with that, but it just shows you have a weak mind.

I was far from weak minded. I was an athlete who was completely maxed out. I played sports 7-college. 3 sports a year in high school. When I played College football my mind really changed about being natural. I was training with a professional strength and conditioning coach putting a lot of time and energy into things. I was strong and fast but my weight didn't move and I didn't look the way I wanted. I grew up idiolizing action movies I new in my mind when I was like ten I was going to juice one day. It's always been my dream to be jacked.

Juicing did and it does everything I wanted it to do. There's been some bumps in the road but once you learn what you are doing it's relatively safe. I can maintain the look I want with test and deca and a little bit of masteron. All cheap and effective.

[spiro]

I've gone up to a year without supps and like I said the difference isn't big enough that I had to quit the gym due to lack of progress or being a shell of myself like gear users.

Juicers who just give up and quit never really loved lifting the lifestyle to begin with. I mean who just gives up. If you need a break you hrt or come off for awhile not the end of the world.

I came off many times I trained harder when I came off. I lost size but eventually would reach homeostasis.

Coming off now would be hard because I'm ten years deep but why come completely off for good. One shot straight week isn't the end of the world.

[Cutlet767]

I was far from weak minded. I was an athlete who was completely maxed out. I played sports 7-college. 3 sports a year in high school. When I played College football my mind really changed about being natural. I was training with a professional strength and conditioning coach putting a lot of time and energy into things. I was strong and fast but my weight didn't move and I didn't look the way I wanted. I grew up idiolizing action movies I new in my mind when I was like ten I was going to juice one day. It's always been my dream to be jacked.

Juicing did and it does everything I wanted it to do. There's been some bumps in the road but once you learn what you are doing it's relatively safe. I can maintain the look I want with test and deca and a little bit of masteron. All cheap and effective.

Fair enough. I applaud you for being able to accept the fact that you need to self-medicate every day to maintain your image. Because in all likely hood your physique is a major part of who you are, and what people know you for, which is why you feel the need to juice to get it... it would be a shame if for some reason you couldn't carry on using steroids every week. Though I'm sure that will never happen..

[Simple Simon]

Creatine works. I don't need it though. All these supps obviously become useless to you when you're blasting Test...

It doesn't "come off" when you stop lifting and eating like a bodybuilder when you train naturally. Jabbing yourself every day or every other day just to maintain your look is, in my opinion, stupid and extremely laughable.

Creatine works temporarily, it holds water in the cells, you stop taking it you lose the water , it does fuck all for muscle growth.

You keep banging on about gear users coming off and being a shadow of their former selves.

And?
Whats your point, you wont be a shadow of your former self because you are likely a shadow already.

Post a picture and lets have a look at what you have achieved.

[Simple Simon]

Fair enough. I applaud you for being able to accept the fact that you need to self-medicate every day to maintain your image. Because in all likely hood your physique is a major part of who you are, and what people know you for, which is why you feel the need to juice to get it... it would be a shame if for some reason you couldn't carry on using steroids every week. Though I'm sure that will never happen..

Fuck you with your passive aggressive bullshit.
Lets turn that around

You need to lift and take creatine to maintain your self image.

TBH Im pretty sure you are a gimmick account.

[Hulkotron]

I've gone up to a year without supps and like I said the difference isn't big enough that I had to quit the gym due to lack of progress or being a shell of myself like gear users.

I'm not arguing for steroids (I don't take them, not my thing) I'm just saying if all that stuff doesn't make a big difference then why bother with it?

Seems like a waste of money to me; I'd rather spend it on tasty food.  But if you enjoy it then carry on.

[Cutlet767]

Fuck you with your passive aggressive bullshit.
Lets turn that around

You need to lift and take creatine to maintain your self image.

TBH Im pretty sure you are a gimmick account.

I don't need to explain to you why the level of dependency is completely different..

IN the absence of a gym, you have calisthenics to at least maintain. In the absence of steroids... you have... what to maintain?

I don't need to tell you why you don't need creatine to maintain which is what I and many other bodybuilders would consider the bare minimum a person should expect when lifting for appearance. No one lifts to regress.

[Simple Simon]

I'm not arguing for steroids (I don't take them, not my thing) I'm just saying if all that stuff doesn't make a big difference then why bother with it?

Seems like a waste of money to me; I'd rather spend it on tasty food.  But if you enjoy it then carry on.

Guy has been here since 2011 and all he has ever contributed is anti steroid posts and attacked users.
Hes an asshole.

I dont suppose he has ever posted a pic, I would like to see what I could have achieved if I hadn't been such a cheat.

[Simple Simon]

I dont need to explain to you why the level of dependency is completely different..

IN the absence of a gym, you have calisthenics to at least maintain. In the absence of steroids... you have... what to maintain?

I competed onstage at 200lbs 1996, when I stopped training and stopped steroids my bodyweight stabled at 200lbs, granted I wasnt as hard and ripped but I wasnt fat either.

Can you explain why I didnt drop to 150lbs please?

[Simple Simon]

I don't need to explain to you why the level of dependency is completely different..

IN the absence of a gym, you have calisthenics to at least maintain. In the absence of steroids... you have... what to maintain?

I don't need to tell you why you don't need creatine to maintain which is what I and many other bodybuilders would consider the bare minimum a person should expect when lifting for appearance. No one lifts to regress.

You have failed to provide any evidence that you are in fact a bodybuilder.

[Cutlet767]

I competed onstage at 200lbs 1996, when I stopped training and stopped steroids my bodyweight stabled at 200lbs, granted I wasnt as hard and ripped but I wasnt fat either.

Can you explain why I didnt drop to 150lbs please?

Well if you're taking to compete at a high level body weight wise and condition wise, then there's no real problem here. Some people like to be freaky.

[spiro]

Fair enough. I applaud you for being able to accept the fact that you need to self-medicate every day to maintain your image. Because in all likely hood your physique is a major part of who you are, and what people know you for, which is why you feel the need to juice to get it... it would be a shame if for some reason you couldn't carry on using steroids every week. Though I'm sure that will never happen..

An easy shot I can get legally every two weeks and look ten times better than I could naturally ya it's fine with me.

[Simple Simon]

Well if you're taking to compete at a high level body weight wise and condition wise, then there's no real problem here.

Another example of dumb reasoning.
Its justifiable to take steroids to compete but not to look good at the beach and bang hot chicks?

Seriously, a plastic fucking trophy and the "glory"

It always makes me laugh when people justify steroid use for competing but not for personal appearance.

Oh, and dont forget to post a picture gimmick.

[Cutlet767]

An easy shot I can get legally every two weeks and look ten times better than I could naturally ya it's fine with me.

If that's what you want to think, and you're positive that you could not get there naturally or get close, then you've already made up your mind that the only way you can obtain the physique you want is with gear. So then, yes, you need it to look good.

Sometimes that close is good enough that you shouldn't need to juice at all. For instance you get some guys who juice and are 180lbs at 5'11... pretty silly if you ask me.

Another example of dumb reasoning.
Its justifiable to take steroids to compete but not to look good at the beach and bang hot chicks?

Seriously, a plastic fucking trophy and the "glory"

It always makes me laugh when people justify steroid use for competing but not for personal appearance.

Oh, and dont forget to post a picture gimmick.

Well, you have a fair point. In that case, you're juicing for a useless plastic plastic trophy and "glory".

[Simple Simon]

If that's what you want to think, and you're positive that you could not get there naturally or get close, then you've already made up your mind that the only way you can obtain the physique you want is with gear. So then, yes, you need it to look good.

Sometimes that close is good enough that you shouldn't need to juice at all. For instance you get some guys who juice and are 180lbs at 5'11... pretty silly if you ask me.

But not silly if hes 260?

[Cutlet767]

But not silly if hes 260?

Of course. I may be wrong, but getting to a ripped 180lbs naturally isn't impossible for the vast majority of healthy young males.

[njflex]

Of course. I may be wrong, but getting to a ripped 180lbs naturally isn't impossible for the vast majority of healthy young males.

there is a whole other thread here on a 'natural'doug miller at 190 lbs doing the unthinkable 'ripped stage ready fully natural lifetime'

[whitewidow]

some of us are just more competetive! I actually knew from the age of 9-10 years old I would be a steroid user. I didnlt care about all those bullshit movies they would show us in health class. I just wanted to be the best! I remember way back in 1989-1990 there were rumors canseco was juicing way back then and he was my favorite so I thought it was what needed to be done to get into professional sports. I never got into professional sports because when i was a teenager it was close to the year 2000 and everybody was using gear and knew that's what it took. By 2000 I was 18 and I remember Mark Macguire and sammy sosa both juiced to the gills just cracking homeruns and we all knew they were on juice! It was obvious! their heads grew for christ sakes

I remeber one of the most obvious users was gary sheffiled not because he was having a great year but the fact his head got so fucking big and he himself was way bigger. dead giveaway then it was like it was almost expected to juice if you had a dream of being a pro athlete. lets not lie I am sure alot of us thought one day we would be pro athletes even if our parents told us diffrent.

[Simple Simon]

Of course. I may be wrong, but getting to a ripped 180lbs naturally isn't impossible for the vast majority of healthy young males.

You are wrong, it takes a special dedication to get ripped at 180 at 5'11, natty

I take it you are 5'11, what weight and BF% are you?

[IronMeister]

[Hulkotron]

Sheffield was on some good juice, I remember when he was like 35 he his .330 with 40-ish home runs 130 or so RBIs. 

I think he was on the Braves at the time.

[Cutlet767]

You are wrong, it takes a special dedication to get ripped at 180 at 5'11, natty

I take it you are 5'11, what weight and BF% are you?

And that's precisely what this is all about... dedication. And the reward, is a maintainable physique, without the dependence on exogenous hormones. A hassle for some. But, not so much for others which is fair enough.

Also, it's not necessarily "impossible" to progress past perceived "limits". When does one consider it a "Limit"? After a month? A year? And without changing anything nutrition or training wise?

It's better to make slow progress, than it is to make fast progress, and then regress dramatically if you can't get hold of your steroids for whatever reason.

[Simple Simon]

And that's precisely what this is all about... dedication. And the reward, is a maintainable physique, without the dependence on exogenous hormones. A hassle for some. But, not so much for others which is fair enough.

But you cant attain it, you have failed to provide any evidence at all that you even lift FFS

You are toast here until you post a picture, 3 years of criticising people for taking steroids, put up or shut up gimmick.

[Cutlet767]

But you cant attain it, you have failed to provide any evidence at all that you even lift FFS

You are toast here until you post a picture, 3 years of criticising people for taking steroids, put up or shut up gimmick.

If you can post a picture of yourself after going off steroids for 2 years, I'll post one up of me currently.