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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 01:00:38 AM

Title: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 01:00:38 AM
A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
 
Fortunately, no one was injured in the scuffle, which might explain why the incident was not widely covered and why the local coverage chalked it up to an honest misunderstanding. And maybe it was an honest misunderstanding. But Foster’s instinct to take matters into his own hands and attack a man he thought might pose a threat to his fellow Walmart shoppers pulls into focus the state of vigilantism in the U.S., and Florida in particular.


The rest of the article can be found here:http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html (http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html)

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 23, 2015, 01:31:55 AM
do americans really feel the need

to have to take a gun in  to the grocery store
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 01:39:42 AM
do americans really feel the need

to have to take a gun in  to the grocery store
That's what concealed carry is. You take your gun everywhere you go.

Some people have open carry, which just makes everyone uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 23, 2015, 01:43:37 AM
That's what concealed carry is. You take your gun everywhere you go.

Some people have open carry, which just makes everyone uncomfortable.

i still think its a recipe for disaster

are they expecting to have a shoot out fighting over the last can of beans ffs

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Skorp1o on January 23, 2015, 01:45:49 AM
do americans really feel the need

to have to take a gun in  to the grocery store

They're at war with themselves.

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 01:47:29 AM
i still think its a recipe for disaster

are they expecting to have a shoot out fighting over the last can of beans ffs


I guess they plan on the unexpected. Although trying to whip out a gun during an altercation or robbery, seems to be harder than what you see in the movies.

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 23, 2015, 01:59:46 AM
I guess they plan on the unexpected. Although trying to whip out a gun during an altercation or robbery, seems to be harder than what you see in the movies.



if the guy tackled had been a bit more switched on

he might have drawn and shot the guy restraining him

what would have happened then seems like he could have claimed self defence

also the guy tackling the gun holder has racially stereotyped him
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 02:24:44 AM
if the guy tackled had been a bit more switched on

he might have drawn and shot the guy restraining him

what would have happened then seems like he could have claimed self defence

also the guy tackling the gun holder has racially stereotyped him
Im not sure if it was about race. The black guy was in his 60's......

He was an idiot for putting his gun in his holster in the parking lot for everyone to see.

We are taught that the only people with guns (in public) should be the police.  People have the right to carry, but it is a slippery slope when it comes to civilians with firearms in public.

Can you conceal carry at a bank?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: 240 is Back on January 23, 2015, 03:00:05 AM
2 idiots.

One is a CCW idiot letting his gun show because he's ignorant and insecure.

One is  zimmerman wannabe that tackles strangers instead of calling 911.

in times like these, you kinda wish a shelf had fallen and crushed them both in the melee.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: DroppingPlates on January 23, 2015, 03:00:38 AM
Story tells nothing about his favorite coffee creamer brand :-\
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: thegamechanger on January 23, 2015, 04:22:58 AM
whatabout flexing your GUNS in teh parking lot before going into the store and then be tackled because you got massive tri's and bi's?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 04:52:14 AM
i still think its a recipe for disaster

are they expecting to have a shoot out fighting over the last can of beans ffs



In Florida alone, there are millions of concealed carry permit holders. This is not an everyday occurance.

In NH, we have concealed permits, but you can open carry without a permit. I was in a Walmart once and saw a big white dude with a POS "Uncle Mikes" holster carrying a POS Ruger 9mm in open carry. I knew he wasn't a cop because of the crappiness of his holster.

I asked him if he was LEO and when he said no, we just started talking about guns. I mentioned that he needed some decent leather and he knew it.

It's culture. We don't have a lot (any?) crime and a lot of guns, so it's normal or at least not scary abnormal to see that. In FL, folks are a little more edgy. Especially since the legal carry permit holder in this story was Hebrew.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on January 23, 2015, 07:21:45 AM
do americans really feel the need

to have to take a gun in  to the grocery store

Have you ever stepped foot into a Walmart?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 07:28:22 AM
I love the idiots that walk around with assault rifles strapped on their backs.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 07:31:57 AM
I love the idiots that walk around with assault rifles strapped on their backs.

You mean the Swiss? They're OK...

(https://unitedcats.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/swiss_gun_owner.jpg)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: muscleman-2013 on January 23, 2015, 07:33:12 AM
A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
 
Fortunately, no one was injured in the scuffle, which might explain why the incident was not widely covered and why the local coverage chalked it up to an honest misunderstanding. And maybe it was an honest misunderstanding. But Foster’s instinct to take matters into his own hands and attack a man he thought might pose a threat to his fellow Walmart shoppers pulls into focus the state of vigilantism in the U.S., and Florida in particular.


The rest of the article can be found here:http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html (http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html)



What a pile of baloney.  The effing media and govt is telling people to be afraid of guns.  This guy wasn't an example of a vigilante, he was a product of US media and govt propaganda.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: G_Thang on January 23, 2015, 07:40:49 AM
Help Me!  Why do people need a gun when shopping at Walmart, given it's a big thrift shop?  Didn't some kid just cap his mom 2 or 3 weeks ago?  
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ritch on January 23, 2015, 07:44:07 AM
should have to take psych and drug tests to be a gun owner.
What % would still be allowed to carry if that were the case?

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Voice of Doom on January 23, 2015, 07:45:06 AM
2 idiots.

One is a CCW idiot letting his gun show because he's ignorant and insecure.

One is  zimmerman wannabe that tackles strangers instead of calling 911.

in times like these, you kinda wish a shelf had fallen and crushed them both in the melee.

Exactly.  I can't fault the good Samaritan.  He saw a guy putting a gun in his pants heading towards a store.  If it had been a robbery in progress he would be getting a medal.  The permit holder was stupid for not taking the precautions required for carrying concealed.  The only issue I see here is that the Samaritan ignored his claims that he "had a permit".
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Voice of Doom on January 23, 2015, 07:46:18 AM
should have to take psych and drug tests to be a gun owner.
What % would still be allowed to carry if that were the case?



what percentage of cops or military would be allowed to carry if that were the case?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ritch on January 23, 2015, 08:07:43 AM
what percentage of cops or military would be allowed to carry if that were the case?

Shit.
Ya got me here, lol...

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: 240 is Back on January 23, 2015, 08:08:16 AM
Exactly.  I can't fault the good Samaritan.  He saw a guy putting a gun in his pants heading towards a store.  If it had been a robbery in progress he would be getting a medal.  The permit holder was stupid for not taking the precautions required for carrying concealed.  The only issue I see here is that the Samaritan ignored his claims that he "had a permit".

he thought he was walking - unarmed - into a life/death struggle.  He should have called 911, or in in the unlikely event he didn't have a phone, notify door greeter/customer/whoever to call 911.  He wanted to single-handedly disarm the older man.  The problem is, the old man just sees some young kid tackle him without explanation - that gun might go off in the struggle and shoot an innocent bystander.  
\
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 08:23:27 AM
Yup, no problems with open and carry. Everything will go smoothly, just like the NRA says. No foreseeable problems with people walking around with guns. Every human being that has a gun will follow the rules accordingly and there will be no problems whatsoever. Other people walking the streets will be able to perfectly distinguish between a criminal with a gun and a law abiding citizen with a gun. It's that easy. No problem at all.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 08:25:05 AM
millions of americans carry on a daily basis and nothing happens...most people arent even aware that there are people carrying around them every day...yet the media blows up these anomoulous fluke situations and tries to cast them to call into question the whole gun thing  ::)

i guess "Millions of americans carried guns today and nothing happened' doesnt make for a good headline ::)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Schnauzer on January 23, 2015, 08:26:22 AM
With all the shootings at WalMart, I don't know that I can blame the guy that tackled the armed Hebrew.

Quote
In 2014, there were at least 92 shooting incidents, leaving 16 people dead and 42 injured.  This is up from 2013, where there were 83 shootings, leaving 24 killed and 42 injured -- an increase of over 10%.  In 2012, there were "only" 53 shootings.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-khjHLA0W0v4/VLIwkJzmGLI/AAAAAAAACo0/RLXNkt4HbGg/s1600/shooting%2Btotals%2Bby%2B12-14.jpg  )

 http://walmartshootings.blogspot.com/  (http://walmartshootings.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 08:30:16 AM
Yup, no problems with open and carry. Everything will go smoothly, just like the NRA says. No foreseeable problems with people walking around with guns. Every human being that has a gun will follow the rules accordingly and there will be no problems whatsoever. Other people walking the streets will be able to perfectly distinguish between a criminal with a gun and a law abiding citizen with a gun. It's that easy. No problem at all.

this is overwhelmingly the case, despite the endless laments and fearmongering of the left.

when the CC movement began a few decades ago, the left and the media was screaming bloody murder and saying it would be 'a return to the wild west' and that people would somehow instantly become cold blooded killers just because they were carrying, and would 'open fire to settle any small grievances' ::)

flash-forward all these years, and CC holders are statistically one of if not THE most law-abiding group in america, and CC has resulted in a virtually non-existant percentage of crime.

sucks when the facts get in the way of your little narratives, doesnt it ::)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Belieber on January 23, 2015, 08:33:14 AM
Fantastic copy paste thread. 10 pages easy.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 09:04:38 AM
this is overwhelmingly the case, despite the endless laments and fearmongering of the left.

when the CC movement began a few decades ago, the left and the media was screaming bloody murder and saying it would be 'a return to the wild west' and that people would somehow instantly become cold blooded killers just because they were carrying, and would 'open fire to settle any small grievances' ::)

flash-forward all these years, and CC holders are statistically one of if not THE most law-abiding group in america, and CC has resulted in a virtually non-existant percentage of crime.

sucks when the facts get in the way of your little narratives, doesnt it ::)

I never said it will turn into the wild west, did I, genius? Epic trying to put words in my mouth to make yourself seem right.  ::) ::) ::)

It may be overwhelmingly the case, but not in all cases. Humans are infallible. Shit is bound to hit the fan. With more people utilizing open and carry, expect more incidences like this to happen. The NRA was trying to put forth a narrative that something like this would NEVER EVER happen, which is the opposite. They just need to be honest and admit that incidences like this may occur. But in their tiny little minds, they do not even leave room for some of the possible negatives occurring. Nothing is 100% full proof. Every situation has pros and cons.

Also, you stated, "and CC has resulted in a virtually non-existant percentage of crime." Can you present evidence? Did you think I was really going to accept this statement without evidence?  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ronnie Rep on January 23, 2015, 09:07:25 AM
A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
 
Fortunately, no one was injured in the scuffle, which might explain why the incident was not widely covered and why the local coverage chalked it up to an honest misunderstanding. And maybe it was an honest misunderstanding. But Foster’s instinct to take matters into his own hands and attack a man he thought might pose a threat to his fellow Walmart shoppers pulls into focus the state of vigilantism in the U.S., and Florida in particular.


The rest of the article can be found here:http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html (http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html)


I always pack heat in Walmart.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 09:11:40 AM
It may be overwhelmingly the case, but not in all cases. Humans are infallible. Shit is bound to hit the fan. With more people utilizing open and carry, expect more incidences like this to happen. The NRA was trying to put forth a narrative that something like this would NEVER EVER happen, which is the opposite. They just need to be honest and admit that incidences like this may occur. But in their tiny little minds, they do not even leave room for some of the possible negatives occurring. Nothing is 100% full proof. Every situation has pros and cons.

Holy straw man, Batman! The NRA never, ever said that this would NEVER happen. And BTW, in this case, nobody got shot, nobody got hurt. The only thing that DID happen is that an anti-gun racist (are there any other kind) tackled a lawful black man for exercising his constitutional rights. Where the fuck did the NRA say that wouldn't happen?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 09:13:37 AM
Holy straw man, Batman! The NRA never, ever said that this would NEVER happen. And BTW, in this case, nobody got shot, nobody got hurt. The only thing that DID happen is that an anti-gun racist (are there any other kind) tackled a lawful black man for exercising his constitutional rights. Where the fuck did the NRA say that wouldn't happen?

Wow, following me around. I feel honored.

Has the NRA ever put forth a narrative or discussed the cons or drawbacks of open and carry? Direct me to any source where the NRA has had an open and honest discussion about the possible pros AND cons of open and carry. I'll await your source.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 09:15:36 AM
I never said it will turn into the wild west, did I, genius? Epic trying to put words in my mouth to make yourself seem right.  ::) ::) ::)

It may be overwhelmingly the case, but not in all cases. Humans are infallible. Shit is bound to hit the fan. With more people utilizing open and carry, expect more incidences like this to happen. The NRA was trying to put forth a narrative that something like this would NEVER EVER happen, which is the opposite. They just need to be honest and admit that incidences like this may occur. But in their tiny little minds, they do not even leave room for some of the possible negatives occurring. Nothing is 100% full proof. Every situation has pros and cons.

Also, you stated, "and CC has resulted in a virtually non-existant percentage of crime." Can you present evidence? Did you think I was really going to accept this statement without evidence?  ::) ::)

no one, and certainly not the NRA, ever made the claim that 'nothing bad would ever happen, ever'  ::)

and there is plenty of evidence showing CC holders commit virtually no crime. look it up if you dare.

and your reasoning is absurd. by that logic, our entire system of roadways and the automobile would never have been put into use, because despite being statitstically extremely safe, occassionally there are accidents. hell CC is statistically FAR safer than allowing anyone in the world to get behind a 4000pound block of steel that can travel over 100 mph and get on the road with thousands of others where they will pass within inches of each other thousands of times per day
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: tommywishbone on January 23, 2015, 09:17:22 AM
Story tells nothing about his favorite coffee creamer brand :-\

And who the fuck goes to a filthy smelly stinky Walmart just for creamer?  I suspect there's more to the story than we are being told. Perhaps he was planning to buy condoms too and have sex with a white woman?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 09:18:04 AM
Wow, following me around. I feel honored.

It's not easy, but it has to be done.

Quote
Has the NRA ever put forth a narrative or discussed the cons or drawbacks of open and carry?

Quite a lot, actually. The NRA is actually pretty much against open carry, for the reasons that most would think: scary, unintended intimidation, law enforcement overreaction. The NRA actually publicly admonished the Texas Open Carry folks for being "inciteful".

I am a bit mixed on open carry. I wish that we lived in a country where it was acceptable, but we don't right now.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 09:20:21 AM
no one, and certainly not the NRA, ever made the claim that 'nothing bad would ever happen, ever'  ::)

and there is plenty of evidence showing CC holders commit virtually no crime. look it up if you dare.

and your reasoning is absurd. by that logic, our entire system of roadways and the automobile would never have been put into use, because despite being statitstically extremely safe, occassionally there are accidents. hell CC is statistically FAR safer than allowing anyone in the world to get behind a 4000pound block of steel that can travel over 100 mph and get on the road with thousands of others where they will pass within inches of each other thousands of times per day

As stated to AJ, has the NRA ever had an open and honest discussion about the pros and cons of open and carry? If not, and only discussing the pros, its pretty equivalent to saying something bad will never happen. Why not discuss the potential cons that may happen? And if they had this discussion, then I am wrong, but Ive never heard it happen before.

Why should I look for the stats? Youre the one making the claim, therefore you should provide the data. I will take that as you not having the actual data to back up your claims and instead putting it on me. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. Ill await your evidence, if you choose to provide it.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 09:21:28 AM
It's not easy, but it has to be done.

Quite a lot, actually. The NRA is actually pretty much against open carry, for the reasons that most would think: scary, unintended intimidation, law enforcement overreaction. The NRA actually publicly admonished the Texas Open Carry folks for being "inciteful".

I am a bit mixed on open carry. I wish that we lived in a country where it was acceptable, but we don't right now.

Yes, but then texas fired back and NRA withdrew their statement. You missed that part, huh?  :D :D
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 09:24:51 AM
no one, and certainly not the NRA, ever made the claim that 'nothing bad would ever happen, ever'  ::)

and there is plenty of evidence showing CC holders commit virtually no crime. look it up if you dare.

and your reasoning is absurd. by that logic, our entire system of roadways and the automobile would never have been put into use, because despite being statitstically extremely safe, occassionally there are accidents. hell CC is statistically FAR safer than allowing anyone in the world to get behind a 4000pound block of steel that can travel over 100 mph and get on the road with thousands of others where they will pass within inches of each other thousands of times per day

oh shut up already.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 09:28:05 AM
As stated to AJ, has the NRA ever had an open and honest discussion about the pros and cons of open and carry? If not, and only discussing the pros, its pretty equivalent to saying something bad will never happen. Why not discuss the potential cons that may happen? And if they had this discussion, then I am wrong, but Ive never heard it happen before.

Why should I look for the stats? Youre the one making the claim, therefore you should provide the data. I will take that as you not having the actual data to back up your claims and instead putting it on me. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. Ill await your evidence, if you choose to provide it.

1. you clearly have no clue whatsoever about either the NRA or the subject at hand. your claim is utterly ridiculous

2. Im am simply relating established fact. you are the one challenging said facts and claiming different, so the onus is on you to show some data to disprove the established consensus. myslef and the rest of the world eagerly awaits your groundbreaking, newly discovered data.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 09:29:49 AM
oh shut up already.

sorry data and evidence gets in the way of your little narratives. sucks doesnt it :-*
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 09:31:36 AM
oh shut up already.

You are giving up too early. Next time it's traditional to call those who don't share your opinion "Nazis" before you fire the "shut up" explanation.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 09:33:26 AM
haha yes Aj, its only a matter of time before they pull out their Race Card as well
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 09:33:50 AM
sorry data and evidence gets in the way of your little narratives. sucks doesnt it :-*

my "narratives"?

how about a thought from you that wasn't cut and pasted into your brain.

next you'll be telling us about "talking points" and "planks in platforms".

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 09:35:04 AM
sorry data and evidence gets in the way of your little narratives. sucks doesnt it :-*

What data and evidence? Lol you have provided statements. I don't see any data or evidence.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 09:40:26 AM
You are giving up too early. Next time it's traditional to call those who don't share your opinion "Nazis" before you fire the "shut up" explanation.

i have to explain to you that that wasn't an "explanation" but a suggested course of action?

if you are going to blubber on and on without making any sense, sooner or later a "shut up" will pop up. that is what non sense elicits.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Voice of Doom on January 23, 2015, 10:03:17 AM
Some Stats:  http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/

Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes

State 11 Permits issued Revoked permits % Revoked Violent Crime Rate Change 12
Florida 1,327,321 13 4,129 0.3% -30.5%
Virginia 50,000 14 0 0.0% -21.9%
Arizona 63,000 15 50 0.9% -28.7%
North Carolina 59,597 16 1,274 1.2% -26.4%
Minnesota 46,636 17
 12 0.03% 8.0% 18
Michigan 155,000 19 2,178 0.1% 1.4%

Fact:  The results for the first 30 states that passed “shall-issue” laws for concealed carry permits are similar.

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime.  They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime. 20

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are: 21
•5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
•13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 23, 2015, 10:06:55 AM
A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
 
Fortunately, no one was injured in the scuffle, which might explain why the incident was not widely covered and why the local coverage chalked it up to an honest misunderstanding. And maybe it was an honest misunderstanding. But Foster’s instinct to take matters into his own hands and attack a man he thought might pose a threat to his fellow Walmart shoppers pulls into focus the state of vigilantism in the U.S., and Florida in particular.


The rest of the article can be found here:http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html (http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html)



Did this happen at the Walmart you work at?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 10:07:30 AM
Some Stats:  http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/

Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes

State 11 Permits issued Revoked permits % Revoked Violent Crime Rate Change 12
Florida 1,327,321 13 4,129 0.3% -30.5%
Virginia 50,000 14 0 0.0% -21.9%
Arizona 63,000 15 50 0.9% -28.7%
North Carolina 59,597 16 1,274 1.2% -26.4%
Minnesota 46,636 17
 12 0.03% 8.0% 18
Michigan 155,000 19 2,178 0.1% 1.4%

Fact:  The results for the first 30 states that passed “shall-issue” laws for concealed carry permits are similar.

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime.  They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime. 20

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are: 21
•5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
•13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public


Thank you for the stats.

However, my stance never implied that people who open and carry are criminals.

My stance was that incidences that occur in the OP article will happen. There are many incidences that can happen. For example, some guy thinking someone with open and carry is a criminal and will attack him; a person with open and carry trying to shoot a criminal, missing, and killing an innocent child. I am well aware that people who carry open and carry are not out there blasting people away. I never said that. As stated, I was referring to the many other mishaps that can occur with open and carry.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 10:20:13 AM
Thank you for the stats.

However, my stance never implied that people who open and carry are criminals.

My stance was that incidences that occur in the OP article will happen. There are many incidences that can happen. For example, some guy thinking someone with open and carry is a criminal and will attack him; a person with open and carry trying to shoot a criminal, missing, and killing an innocent child. I am well aware that people who carry open and carry are not out there blasting people away. I never said that. As stated, I was referring to the many other mishaps that can occur with open and carry.

I don't think that the guy was open carrying. I think that he "flashed" and his concealed weapon was seen.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 10:36:44 AM
a gun is a tool used to damage and take life.

i'm in a store, i guy walks in with a gun strapped to his side.

i have no way of knowing if he is a good guy, just there to shop, or if he is there to rob and shoot.

i don't have gun. so now i have to walk around people who hold tools design to kill and i have to hope they don't use them.

the rejoinder to that is to carry a gun myself just in case one of them does intend to use theirs.

so we all end up having to carry guns.

we all know that is the logical progression. all the scenarios have been thought of and posed. "they", the powers behind any agenda, know the realities.

it goes forward anyway. therein lies the meaningful inspection and discussion.

while we argue back and forth about shit they already settled, they are able to set the agenda.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 10:37:53 AM
Did this happen at the Walmart you work at?
I do not work for a Walmart store.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
a gun is a tool used to damage and take life.

i'm in a store, i guy walks in with a gun strapped to his side.

i have no way of knowing if he is a good guy, just there to shop, or if he is there to rob and shoot.

i don't have gun. so now i have to walk around people who hold tools design to kill and i have to hope they don't use them.

the rejoinder to that is to carry a gun myself just in case one of them does intend to use theirs.

so we all end up having to carry guns.

we all know that is the logical progression. all the scenarios have been thought of and posed. "they", the powers behind any agenda, know the realities.

it goes forward anyway. therein lies the meaningful inspection and discussion.

while we argue back and forth about shit they already settled, they are able to set the agenda.


You must be very fearful around police officers.

Oh, and a gun is a tool designed to propel a hunk of metal down a tube.

Now can we discuss that foil hat on your head? You know, not everything is a conspiracy. Some times, it's just a policy disagreement or a disagreement about the role of government in our lives.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 11:04:59 AM
You must be very fearful around police officers.

Oh, and a gun is a tool designed to propel a hunk of metal down a tube.

Now can we discuss that foil hat on your head? You know, not everything is a conspiracy. Some times, it's just a policy disagreement or a disagreement about the role of government in our lives.

you should read what you write.

everything shouldn't have to be broken down for you.

if i say you think like a kid, you'll get upset. but you do.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 11:06:09 AM
you should read what you write.

everything shouldn't have to be broken down for you.

if i say you think like a kid, you'll get upset. but you do.
Watch your tone when you address Vox Populi
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 23, 2015, 11:06:29 AM
you should read what you write.

everything shouldn't have to be broken down for you.

if i say you think like a kid, you'll get upset. but you do.

You post exactly like Groink.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 11:07:18 AM
I do not work for a Walmart store.

but you did in the past. Correct? Didn't Josh call your boss at walmart?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 11:09:16 AM
but you did in the past. Correct? Didn't Josh call your boss at walmart?
Thats not how the events unfolded. Either way, it's over and done with.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 11:09:23 AM
a gun is a tool used to damage and take life.

i'm in a store, i guy walks in with a gun strapped to his side.

i have no way of knowing if he is a good guy, just there to shop, or if he is there to rob and shoot.

i don't have gun. so now i have to walk around people who hold tools design to kill and i have to hope they don't use them.

the rejoinder to that is to carry a gun myself just in case one of them does intend to use theirs.

so we all end up having to carry guns.

we all know that is the logical progression. all the scenarios have been thought of and posed. "they", the powers behind any agenda, know the realities.

it goes forward anyway. therein lies the meaningful inspection and discussion.

while we argue back and forth about shit they already settled, they are able to set the agenda.


i think you are making too much out of this.

chances are you are ALREADY passing tons of people who are carrying every time you venture into public, and nothing happens.

the idea that average citizens carrying will somehow turn them into 'threats' or make them more inclined to violence is just silly. the truth is, its just not that big of a deal. people dont need to get so worried about this stuff
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 23, 2015, 11:09:46 AM
I do not work for a Walmart store.

Couldn't pass the drug test?

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 11:10:32 AM
You post exactly like Groink.

never heard of him but he must have been an on the ball dude.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 11:13:22 AM
Couldn't pass the drug test?


I have never failed a drug test in my life. Never had to sweat one out either.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: efirkey on January 23, 2015, 11:23:46 AM
In Florida alone, there are millions of concealed carry permit holders. This is not an everyday occurance.

In NH, we have concealed permits, but you can open carry without a permit. I was in a Walmart once and saw a big white dude with a POS "Uncle Mikes" holster carrying a POS Ruger 9mm in open carry. I knew he wasn't a cop because of the crappiness of his holster.

I asked him if he was LEO and when he said no, we just started talking about guns. I mentioned that he needed some decent leather and he knew it.

It's culture. We don't have a lot (any?) crime and a lot of guns, so it's normal or at least not scary abnormal to see that. In FL, folks are a little more edgy. Especially since the legal carry permit holder in this story was Hebrew.

I live in New Hampshire and I have never seen any one open carry in public.   I do, however, know a lot of gun happy people.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 23, 2015, 11:26:27 AM
I have never failed a drug test in my life. Never had to sweat one out either.

No one ever fails a drug test they don't take.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 11:30:14 AM
I live in New Hampshire and I have never seen any one open carry in public.   I do, however, know a lot of gun happy people.

where i live, businesses, like KFC, supermarkets, car dealerships, have signs in their windows that say "firearms are prohibited" with a circle/slash over a gun.

it is now easy to get a concealed carry license in Illinois.


chances are i do pass tons of people everyday with guns.
that doesn't mean the experiment is over, it just beginning.

the results already starting to come in.  
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 11:33:37 AM
I live in New Hampshire and I have never seen any one open carry in public.   I do, however, know a lot of gun happy people.

This guy was the only one that I have seen in a business. I have seen some at rallies and such.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 11:34:25 AM
No one ever fails a drug test they don't take.
I have been employed continuously for the past 17 years. I'm 33, so do the math.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: hench on January 23, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
so you can get a licence to carry a concealed gun, but does this mean it cannot be taken out and used? If so what is the point of carrying one in the first place unless there is intention of use? If it has to be concealed then obviously it can't even be taken out to scare someone, very confusing rules. And what criteria do you have to meet to get a permit?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 11:40:11 AM
so you can get a licence to carry a concealed gun, but does this mean it cannot be taken out and used? If so what is the point of carrying one in the first place unless there is intention of use? If it has to be concealed then obviously it can't even be taken out to scare someone, very confusing rules. And what criteria do you have to meet to get a permit?

I guess what they mean by conceal is when youre carrying it around it has to be concealed. But you can use it if your life is in danger.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: 240 is Back on January 23, 2015, 11:41:37 AM
so you can get a licence to carry a concealed gun, but does this mean it cannot be taken out and used? If so what is the point of carrying one in the first place unless there is intention of use? If it has to be concealed then obviously it can't even be taken out to scare someone, very confusing rules. And what criteria do you have to meet to get a permit?

you have to keep it concealed.

show it to scare someone, you get a year in prison.
point it at someone, you're looking at 2-3 years.
fire it to scare someone, now you're in the 5 year area.

you have to be 100% without felony arrests, no domestic abuse drama, no mental illness, background check, all that to get it.  It's essentially a "good guy" card - if you have one, then you've managed to keep your nose clean.  

There are exceptions - Zimmerman still has his.  Imagine that.

he shoved a cop, assaulted his women, capped trayvon, and has had 3 charges since then, plus one threatening to kill a man in traffic.  But since he's stayed beneath the felony line, he can still legally carry a suitcase full of rifles and backpack full of glocks to buy his morning donuts.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 11:42:14 AM
I guess what they mean by conceal is when youre carrying it around it has to be concealed. But you can use it if your life is in danger.
Sounds self-explanatory to me  ???
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 23, 2015, 11:43:19 AM
I have been employed continuously for the past 17 years. I'm 33, so do the math.

Math says you're a high school dropout who has, and will, work menial minimum wage jobs for your entire pathetic existence.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 11:46:38 AM
Math says you're a high school dropout who has, and will, work menial minimum wage jobs for your entire pathetic existence.
You having a go brah?  8)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2015, 11:47:29 AM
Sounds self-explanatory to me  ???

I thought so.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: hench on January 23, 2015, 12:10:19 PM
so yeah it has to be concealed no matter what, do any of the 3 things you listed below and your're looking at prison time so why permit anyone to carry in the first place...?

you have to keep it concealed.

show it to scare someone, you get a year in prison.
point it at someone, you're looking at 2-3 years.
fire it to scare someone, now you're in the 5 year area.

you have to be 100% without felony arrests, no domestic abuse drama, no mental illness, background check, all that to get it.  It's essentially a "good guy" card - if you have one, then you've managed to keep your nose clean.  

There are exceptions - Zimmerman still has his.  Imagine that.

he shoved a cop, assaulted his women, capped trayvon, and has had 3 charges since then, plus one threatening to kill a man in traffic.  But since he's stayed beneath the felony line, he can still legally carry a suitcase full of rifles and backpack full of glocks to buy his morning donuts.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 12:12:29 PM
so yeah it has to be concealed no matter what, do any of the 3 things you listed below and your're looking at prison time so why permit anyone to carry in the first place...?


LOL..you're thick man.............TO SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE FUCKING FACE!

DO YOU SEE THAT ANYWHERE ON THE LIST SHIT YOU CAN'T DO?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: 240 is Back on January 23, 2015, 12:12:41 PM
so yeah it has to be concealed no matter what, do any of the 3 things you listed below and your're looking at prison time so why permit anyone to carry in the first place...?

because 120 pound twinks can get their ass kicked by 220 pound jerks.
because a group of 4 teenagers with kitchen knives can kill a man and his family.
because the bad guys already have guns, and won't give them up.
because many things can happen in a dangerous world.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 12:15:42 PM
because 120 pound twinks can get their ass kicked by 220 pound jerks.
because a group of 4 teenagers with kitchen knives can kill a man and his family.
because the bad guys already have guns, and won't give them up.
because many things can happen in a dangerous world.

And do you feel that you can safely get to your gun in time, without actually doing yourself more harm?

You quickly go for a gun, and you better be ready to kill, or be killed.

You can't count on the other person to run.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2015, 12:18:13 PM
And do you feel that you can safely get to your gun in time, without actually doing yourself more harm?

You quickly go for a gun, and you better be ready to kill, or be killed.

You can't count on the other person to run.

Yes, yes and yes. All true.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: 240 is Back on January 23, 2015, 12:27:47 PM
And do you feel that you can safely get to your gun in time, without actually doing yourself more harm?
You quickly go for a gun, and you better be ready to kill, or be killed.
You can't count on the other person to run.

I feel confident that if the other guy wants to kill me, and I don't have a gun, there is probably a 100% chance that I get wasted.

if I have my own gun, that % goes down a bit.  I like that.  

he might get me too, but you can be I'm taking that cat with me.  

I'm a grown man with a family... I don't think any grown man here on getbig would hesitate to fire a weapon if he and his family were in danger of a forcible felony.   We wouldn't want to.  We pray it never happens.  We would try to de-escalate the situation and find an outcome that doesn't involve deadly force.

But at the end of the day, if the bad guy makes it clear it's killing time, I have to think most of us getbiggers would do what we had to do.   Personally, I PRAY that day never comes.  

honestly tho, just having the gun usually diffuses most situations.  You can grin, put hand on fanny or butt of concealed weapons, and just tell the bag of shit to fck with someone else.   "I aint the one... there are 7 billion other people in the world.  Go fck with one of them".  bad guys size up a room.  if you're 210 with aware eyes, fanny pack and your right hand is itchy, they're going to pick on some self-involved twit playing facebook.

(you dont have to be faster than the bear... you just have to be faster than your buddy.)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: hench on January 23, 2015, 12:47:15 PM
haha, yep i'm thick, just trying to figure out what the point is of permitting people to carry a concealed weapon, is there any scenario where that permit allows it to be taken out and used?
 
LOL..you're thick man.............TO SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE FUCKING FACE!

DO YOU SEE THAT ANYWHERE ON THE LIST SHIT YOU CAN'T DO?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 23, 2015, 12:50:15 PM
You having a go brah?  8)

I'd like to have a Knooger-like "go" with you brah!    ;D
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 01:02:35 PM
haha, yep i'm thick, just trying to figure out what the point is of permitting people to carry a concealed weapon, is there any scenario where that permit allows it to be taken out and used?
 

yes.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 01:09:55 PM
lets all just carry guns, that'll show the bad guys....cause nobody has ever thought of it before.

there is no such thing as history to learn from.


haven't you guys noticed the population has been divided into camps, with each one shouting "hooray for our side".

we get fed a steady stream of bullshit to keeps us divided and thus conquered.

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 01:13:09 PM
haha, yep i'm thick, just trying to figure out what the point is of permitting people to carry a concealed weapon, is there any scenario where that permit allows it to be taken out and used?
 

go on over to _aj_'s house late at night, he'll demonstrate.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 23, 2015, 01:15:26 PM
go on over to _aj_'s house late at night, he'll demonstrate.
Dressed in blackface?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 23, 2015, 01:25:29 PM
Dressed in blackface?

that's become optional.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 23, 2015, 02:16:09 PM
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/01/23/women-continue-to-line-up-for-concealed-carry-permits-n1947306 (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/01/23/women-continue-to-line-up-for-concealed-carry-permits-n1947306)

sorry libs  :D
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Voice of Doom on January 23, 2015, 02:23:40 PM
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/01/23/women-continue-to-line-up-for-concealed-carry-permits-n1947306 (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/01/23/women-continue-to-line-up-for-concealed-carry-permits-n1947306)

sorry libs  :D

That's great to see.  More women taking charge of their safety.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: TestDummy on January 23, 2015, 04:54:41 PM
2 idiots.

One is a CCW idiot letting his gun show because he's ignorant and insecure.

One is  zimmerman wannabe that tackles strangers instead of calling 911.

in times like these, you kinda wish a shelf had fallen and crushed them both in the melee.

totally agree lol 2 dumb ass idiots, wow
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: muscleman-2013 on January 23, 2015, 07:53:02 PM
So this dude DID NOT keep his concealed right?  Cos the other guy saw it...
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: muscleman-2013 on January 23, 2015, 08:01:47 PM
The only thing that DID happen is that an anti-gun racist

There are no grounds on which to say this guy was an anti gun racist.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Radical Plato on January 23, 2015, 09:24:30 PM
do americans really feel the need

to have to take a gun in  to the grocery store
You never know when someone will sneak up behind you and place you in a choke hold...  Oh Wait.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ropo on January 24, 2015, 12:03:17 AM
a gun is a tool used to damage and take life.

i'm in a store, i guy walks in with a gun strapped to his side.

i have no way of knowing if he is a good guy, just there to shop, or if he is there to rob and shoot.

i don't have gun. so now i have to walk around people who hold tools design to kill and i have to hope they don't use them.

the rejoinder to that is to carry a gun myself just in case one of them does intend to use theirs.

so we all end up having to carry guns.

we all know that is the logical progression. all the scenarios have been thought of and posed. "they", the powers behind any agenda, know the realities.

it goes forward anyway. therein lies the meaningful inspection and discussion.

while we argue back and forth about shit they already settled, they are able to set the agenda.


Here is little secret for you to know: You should be afraid only for those guns, which are pointed to you. All the other guns may save your life, when someone point a gun to you at the front of the citizen who has ccw permit. This happen all the time in USA.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ropo on January 24, 2015, 12:20:48 AM
Some Stats:  http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/

Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes

State 11 Permits issued Revoked permits % Revoked Violent Crime Rate Change 12
Florida 1,327,321 13 4,129 0.3% -30.5%
Virginia 50,000 14 0 0.0% -21.9%
Arizona 63,000 15 50 0.9% -28.7%
North Carolina 59,597 16 1,274 1.2% -26.4%
Minnesota 46,636 17
 12 0.03% 8.0% 18
Michigan 155,000 19 2,178 0.1% 1.4%

Fact:  The results for the first 30 states that passed “shall-issue” laws for concealed carry permits are similar.

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime.  They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime. 20

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are: 21
•5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
•13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public


Nice statistics. One major myths of the CCW busted. Of course anybody with the brains would know that already, but as we know, weapon haters doesn't have the ability to use their brains. Their hate is based just on emotions, not on the facts, and that makes them idiots. It is always just same, no matter where you are. Anti-gun people talks about fictive, emotion based scenarios, and pro gun people use just facts.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 24, 2015, 02:18:37 AM
the only legitimate argument for carrying guns

is that people like guns

thats it there is no other argument

everything else is just bullshit

if you made guns illegal in the ststaes less people would be killed

they did it in austrailia and it had a dramatic effect

all the people arguing for guns just admit it makes you feel more of a man carrying a gun

its a primeval thing we are by nature hunters and killers

its buried deep but is there

guns dont kill people

people kill people

therefore give people guns and you make it easier for them to kill people
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 03:11:49 AM
the only legitimate argument for carrying guns

is that people like guns

thats it there is no other argument

everything else is just bullshit

if you made guns illegal in the ststaes less people would be killed

they did it in austrailia and it had a dramatic effect

all the people arguing for guns just admit it makes you feel more of a man carrying a gun

its a primeval thing we are by nature hunters and killers

its buried deep but is there

guns dont kill people

people kill people

therefore give people guns and you make it easier for them to kill people

So self-defense isn't real, never happens, and is an illegitimate reason to own a gun?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 03:22:36 AM
Does having a gun on your person, actually make you safer, or does it make you feel safer?

I would say that most that have CCW'S have no business carrying a gun in public. If something happened, they would either get themselves killed, or rush to judgment and unlawfully shoot someone.

Guns are better served to protect a mans home.

Some people watch too many movies.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 24, 2015, 03:46:40 AM
So self-defense isn't real, never happens, and is an illegitimate reason to own a gun?

do you have kids aj

and if so you clearly dont want them to pick up your guns at home

so where do you keep your guns at home?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Conker on January 24, 2015, 05:25:45 AM
Exactly.  I can't fault the good Samaritan.  He saw a guy putting a gun in his pants heading towards a store.  If it had been a robbery in progress he would be getting a medal.  The permit holder was stupid for not taking the precautions required for carrying concealed.  The only issue I see here is that the Samaritan ignored his claims that he "had a permit".

lol this logic seems a bit fked up

so there is no issue with the guy coming in the shop armed as long as no one sees him conceal the gun. surely someone about to commit a robbery would be more likely than someone who is doing nothing wrong, to make  sure he isn't spotted concealing his weapon as not to alert anyone and give prior warning of what he is going to do.

but i just can't comprehend how everyday people would feel the need to arm themselves with a lethal weapon just to walk around the shops ???
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 05:26:33 AM
do you have kids aj

and if so you clearly dont want them to pick up your guns at home

so where do you keep your guns at home?

Yes. I do. My son happens to be very responsible. That said, the guns are in various locked boxes thought the house. Only my wife and I can get in.

This, of course, has nothing to do with my question. Do you believe that self-defense is a legitimate reason for a gun, yes or no?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 05:30:21 AM
I would say that most that have CCW'S have no business carrying a gun in public. If something happened, they would either get themselves killed, or rush to judgment and unlawfully shoot someone.

And yet actual proof, fact, and experience shows that your opinion is wrong. Millions of CCW holder carry every day. Where is the carnage? Where are the people killing themselves because theyare so untrained? Where is "Dodge City?"

It doesn't fucking exist! So you can stop having that opinion. We are all entitled to our own opinion, nobody is entitled to their own facts.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 05:41:13 AM
And yet actual proof, fact, and experience shows that your opinion is wrong. Millions of CCW holder carry every day. Where is the carnage? Where are the people killing themselves because theyare so untrained? Where is "Dodge City?"

It doesn't fucking exist! So you can stop having that opinion. We are all entitled to our own opinion, nobody is entitled to their own facts.
It doesn't take much to get a CCW. Wouldn't you agree?

Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 06:12:58 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IAzHJQtpnmA/TtvAFwhhw8I/AAAAAAAAA-A/O3MpR6_A87g/s1600/100.jpg)
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 06:19:47 AM
It doesn't take much to get a CCW. Wouldn't you agree?

It depends on the state. I was a State Police instructor for civilian CCW in Mass and it was a 2 day course with a range test and a whole section on lethal force laws. Also in MA, the CLEO could disqualify you for any reason he felt, so in MA, you more than likely had to be white, male and somewhat politically connected if your local chief was a dick.

In NH, it's a one-page form, $5 and they have to give it to you if you don't have a record.

There is no difference in the crime that CCW holders commit in either state: zero.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 06:23:40 AM
It depends on the state. I was a State Police instructor for civilian CCW in Mass and it was a 2 day course with a range test and a whole section on lethal force laws. Also in MA, the CLEO could disqualify you for any reason he felt, so in MA, you more than likely had to be white, male and somewhat politically connected if your local chief was a dick.

In NH, it's a one-page form, $5 and they have to give it to you if you don't have a record.

There is no difference in the crime that CCW holders commit in either state: zero.
I still say it should be a more uniform process.

In Fla, (my brother has his CCW) all you need is a clean record, and take a 4 hour course. Not enough required in my opinion.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 06:28:57 AM
I still say it should be a more uniform process.

In Fla, (my brother has his CCW) all you need is a clean record, and take a 4 hour course. Not enough required in my opinion.

Most gun owners that I know make a point of getting additional instruction. In NH we are blessed with one of the finest training facilities in the world at the SigArms Academy in Epping. Courses are very reasonable and teach a variety of skills. I have probably taken 15 different intermediate and advanced courses in the past 15 years.

I just take it as a given that most CCW holders around here are hobbyists and as such have a passion for the tools that surpasses an individual police officer. Your average LEO goes through the academy with the basics of marksmanship and then "qualifies" once a year (10 shots, hit paper, no movement). I will always argue that the average CCW holder is more proficient with their weapon than the average cop.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmikecox on January 24, 2015, 06:29:46 AM
A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
 
Fortunately, no one was injured in the scuffle, which might explain why the incident was not widely covered and why the local coverage chalked it up to an honest misunderstanding. And maybe it was an honest misunderstanding. But Foster’s instinct to take matters into his own hands and attack a man he thought might pose a threat to his fellow Walmart shoppers pulls into focus the state of vigilantism in the U.S., and Florida in particular.


The rest of the article can be found here:http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html (http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html)



Tampa aint no joke
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 06:45:54 AM
I still say it should be a more uniform process.

Unless somebody wants to propose a federal CCW (which likely wouldn't pass Constitutional muster), it will always be a state issue and will have variances. Federalism!
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 06:49:11 AM
Unless somebody wants to propose a federal CCW (which likely wouldn't pass Constitutional muster), it will always be a state issue and will have variances. Federalism!
Great! So auntie bee can get a CCW with little to no gun experience.

Hopefully she doesnt go all foxtrot at the bingo emporium.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 06:51:12 AM
Great! So auntie bee can get a CCW with little to no gun experience.

Hopefully she doesnt go all foxtrot at the bingo emporium.

Again, "Auntie Bee" has been getting a CCW in most states now for 20 years. Show me ANYTHING to suggest that this hasn't worked out EXACTLY like the NRA said it would. Where is the death? Where are the road-rage homicides?

You're just trolling now.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 06:56:53 AM
Again, "Auntie Bee" has been getting a CCW in most states now for 20 years. Show me ANYTHING to suggest that this hasn't worked out EXACTLY like the NRA said it would. Where is the death? Where are the road-rage homicides?

You're just trolling now.
:D
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 07:03:26 AM
:D

And it's working on me! Dang. Fell into it again.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 07:13:05 AM
And it's working on me! Dang. Fell into it again.
Meltdown.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: che on January 24, 2015, 07:14:38 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IAzHJQtpnmA/TtvAFwhhw8I/AAAAAAAAA-A/O3MpR6_A87g/s1600/100.jpg)

You're such a fucking loser .
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 07:20:39 AM
You're such a fucking loser .
Thanks.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ropo on January 24, 2015, 07:22:23 AM
the only legitimate argument for carrying guns

is that people like guns

thats it there is no other argument

everything else is just bullshit

if you made guns illegal in the ststaes less people would be killed

they did it in austrailia and it had a dramatic effect

all the people arguing for guns just admit it makes you feel more of a man carrying a gun

its a primeval thing we are by nature hunters and killers

its buried deep but is there

guns dont kill people

people kill people

therefore give people guns and you make it easier for them to kill people

Childish bullshit. Crap like this shows what kind of intelligence is behind anti gun thinking.

1. gun is only a tool, it is for hobby, or for self defense.
2. http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/ (http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/) there you can read what self defense means in USA
3. how about the guns which are in hands of gangs, criminals, terrorists etc. ? How would we fight against them, with sticks ?

If you are serious about your view, just pick any given gangster and go to him, and ask him to give his gun to be destroyed. Before doing that, leave a note for your parents, so they can write here what happen, when the funerals are etc. if someone want to send some flowers.  ;D
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 24, 2015, 08:13:19 AM
Yes. I do. My son happens to be very responsible. That said, the guns are in various locked boxes thought the house. Only my wife and I can get in.

This, of course, has nothing to do with my question. Do you believe that self-defense is a legitimate reason for a gun, yes or no?

bare with me

so if an armed attacker broke in to your house

you as a responsible gun owner would have to get the key unlock the box load the gun

then shooot him

im not convinced he would wait

i would therefore argue you would be better with a baseball bat next to your bed

your guns are not for self defence you need to admit this as the starting point for the debate

you would need to keeo a loaded gun next to your bed ready to snatch and shoot

as a responsibleadult you would or should not do this
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 24, 2015, 08:15:20 AM
Childish bullshit. Crap like this shows what kind of intelligence is behind anti gun thinking.

1. gun is only a tool, it is for hobby, or for self defense.
2. http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/ (http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/) there you can read what self defense means in USA
3. how about the guns which are in hands of gangs, criminals, terrorists etc. ? How would we fight against them, with sticks ?

If you are serious about your view, just pick any given gangster and go to him, and ask him to give his gun to be destroyed. Before doing that, leave a note for your parents, so they can write here what happen, when the funerals are etc. if someone want to send some flowers.  ;D

do you have an armed police force and an army
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 08:45:16 AM
Is anyone over there not living in a perpetual state of fear anymore or is that the new normal?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 08:46:45 AM
bare with me

so if an armed attacker broke in to your house

you as a responsible gun owner would have to get the key unlock the box load the gun

then shooot him

im not convinced he would wait

i would therefore argue you would be better with a baseball bat next to your bed

your guns are not for self defence you need to admit this as the starting point for the debate

you would need to keeo a loaded gun next to your bed ready to snatch and shoot

as a responsibleadult you would or should not do this

Biometric locks open with a fingerprint.

Three dogs can make quite a stir. I figure I have about 3 minutes in the dark. I have body armor to get on too.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 08:55:57 AM
No night vision?  Most home invasions happen after dark.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 08:59:24 AM
Is anyone over there not living in a perpetual state of fear anymore or is that the new normal?

No, it just the gun nuts. Sure, I can get robbed or killed when I leave my house, but I do not have that sort of fear that I feel like I need to protect myself every moment of the day.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: SaintAnger on January 24, 2015, 09:03:38 AM
This is why I only live in nice neighborhoods. 
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 24, 2015, 09:06:53 AM
Biometric locks open with a fingerprint.

Three dogs can make quite a stir. I figure I have about 3 minutes in the dark. I have body armor to get on too.

nice set up

have you tried going through the process when your heart beat is massively elevated

and you are under extreme stress

you know that biometrics can fail when you are sweating a lot

wouldnt be as easy as you think

the dogs are difinitely the best first line of defence though
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 09:12:31 AM
Actually a mined perimeter is the best first line of defence.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 09:24:58 AM
nice set up

have you tried going through the process when your heart beat is massively elevated

and you are under extreme stress

you know that biometrics can fail when you are sweating a lot

wouldnt be as easy as you think

the dogs are difinitely the best first line of defence though

Not the heart rate, but I have run it at night. The first time doing it was fucking hilarious. Thank God I ran it with empty magazines.

As for night vision, only if I could afford Gen4. You get used to the best...

No replacement for home field, though. Modern man puts too much emphasis on vision. Your ears are your friend. At least until that first gun shot and then your ears are pretty much offline.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ropo on January 24, 2015, 09:27:59 AM
do you have an armed police force and an army


And they are all the time everywhere? What is real function of police forces? They come to study what has happen. How this would help you, if someone pulls gun on you when you stand in the traffic lights? Your comments are so childish that you have to be 6 years old, or seriously handicapped, meaning retard.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 09:30:57 AM
And they are all the time everywhere? What is real function of police forces? They come to study what has happen. How this would help you, if someone pulls gun on you when you stand in the traffic lights? Your comments are so childish that you have to be 6 years old, or seriously handicapped, meaning retard.

The courts here very clearly ruled that the police do NOT have a requirement to "protect" the public. Their job is to apprehend bad guys (eventually) and bring them to court.

The job of protection falls to the individual. Feel free to abdicate that responsibility, but don't look for sympathy while the world trends ever-Hobbsian.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 09:34:48 AM
we make drugs, gambling and whoring illegal, but carrying guns is no problem.

if we have to carry guns to feel safe, then it must mean our law enforcement doesn't make us feel safe. yet the answer there isn't examine and fix that, no pay this bastards a good living, giving the best benefits and pensions and then we'll handle protection ourselves.

why the fuck are we paying cops for then?

i can't place a $5 bet on the super bowl because i have to be saved from myself, but i'm allowed to carry a gun.

none of you pro carry people ever ask "why should have to have the need to carry a gun in the first place" and if you do you accept a simpleton's answer "because liberals make it an unsafe place to live".

the powers that be count on being able to brain wash the weak minded and they do and it works.

and the rest of us have to suffer.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 09:36:22 AM
we make drugs, gambling and whoring illegal, but carrying guns is no problem.

if we have to carry guns to feel safe, then it must mean our law enforcement doesn't make us feel safe. yet the answer there isn't examine and fix that, no pay this bastards a good living, giving the best benefits and pensions and then we'll handle protection ourselves.

why the fuck are we paying cops for then?

i can't place a $5 bet on the super bowl because i have to be saved from myself, but i'm allowed to carry a gun.

none of you pro carry people ever ask "why should have to have the need to carry a gun in the first place" and if you do you accept a simpleton's answer "because liberals make it an unsafe place to live".

the powers that be count on being able to brain wash the weak minded and they do and it works.

and the rest of us have to suffer.

Ok. How would you make our country a "safe place to live?" Please be specific about policy changes.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 09:38:58 AM
Some good old fashioned CS gas and ducting would be pretty easy to retrofit, along with remote lock for all doors to isolate the intruders, and a PA system and masks for the family.  "Red dog!  Red dog!  Ducks are on the pond!  Proceed to defensive position Alpha.  Countermeasures in 5,4,3,2...!"
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 09:40:29 AM
The courts here very clearly ruled that the police do NOT have a requirement to "protect" the public. Their job is to apprehend bad guys (eventually) and bring them to court.

The job of protection falls to the individual. Feel free to abdicate that responsibility, but don't look for sympathy while the world trends ever-Hobbsian.

and so the next question would be, can a society form a group of citizens charged specifically with protecting the rest of the citizens, which we then give a name to such as "police force".

the answer must be yes, that cannot be unconstitutional. so if the courts ruled that, it had to be based on how the police charter was written. the solution is to change the charter so it reads properly. that's it.

that court ruling can be made moot easily.

dude, this is a fucked up country, no way around it.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 09:41:00 AM
Some good old fashioned CS gas and ducting would be pretty easy to retrofit, along with remote lock for all doors to isolate the intruders, and a PA system and masks for the family.  "Red dog!  Red dog!  Ducks are on the pond!  Proceed to defensive position Alpha.  Countermeasures in 5,4,3,2...!"

Haha! My son is always suggesting ideas from Modern Warfare that involve explosives. My wife keeps grumbling, "Don't give your father any ideas".

I like the way that kid thinks.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 09:42:37 AM
and so the next question would be, can a society form a group of citizens charged specifically with protecting the rest of the citizens, which we then give a name to such as "police force".

the answer must be yes, that cannot be unconstitutional. so if the courts ruled that, it had to be based on how the police charter was written. the solution is to change the charter so it reads properly. that's it.

that court ruling can be made moot easily.

dude, this is a fucked up country, no way around it.

The transformation started when police stopped referring to themselves as "Peace Officers" and started using the more appropriate moniker "Law Enforcement Officers"

I think you can see what they did there.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 09:51:11 AM
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 09:54:24 AM
The transformation started when police stopped referring to themselves as "Peace Officers" and started using the more appropriate moniker "Law Enforcement Officers"

I think you can see what they did there.

you troll without realizing you do.

word games mean something to you? we are the government not the police. if the changed how they refer to themselves, then we change it back. simple, the police force only has the power the people have vested in them, not one shred more.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 09:56:08 AM
you troll without realizing you do.

word games mean something to you? we are the government not the police. if the changed how they refer to themselves, then we change it back. simple, the police force only has the power the people have vested in them, not one shred more.

You appear to have a very simplistic view of the relationship between the State and The People. Perhaps, you can enunciate on this "simple" way of reframing America's police forces.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ron Harrigan on January 24, 2015, 09:57:42 AM
And they are all the time everywhere? What is real function of police forces? They come to study what has happen. How this would help you, if someone pulls gun on you when you stand in the traffic lights? Your comments are so childish that you have to be 6 years old, or seriously handicapped, meaning retard.

Don't be stupid. If someone pulls a gun on you, you are dead meat. Unless you are a martial artist like me that dodges bullets for fun.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
Ok. How would you make our country a "safe place to live?" Please be specific about policy changes.

the answers are simple but complex in their layers. to get into it fully it would take a lot more then a few posts on a forum. and of course none of us, including the cult of FOX, have hard and fast solutions, but more to the point is the direction we move in to find those solutions. are we going to find them moving in the current direction or not?

i think not. i think we need to move in a different direction, take a different approach than we've been doing for many decades.

if you want an easy answer, which i think you other like minded people want, then all you're going to get is failure. when the gun carrying shit causes injustice, you are going to blame someone else, again.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 10:04:45 AM
the answers are simple but complex in their layers. to get into it fully it would take a lot more then a few posts on a forum. and of course none of us, including the cult of FOX, have hard and fast solutions, but more to the point is the direction we move in to find those solutions. are we going to find them moving in the current direction or not?

i think not. i think we need to move in a different direction, take a different approach than we've been doing for many decades.

if you want an easy answer, which i think you other like minded people want, then all you're going to get is failure. when the gun carrying shit causes injustice, you are going to blame someone else, again.

I am a realist. I take active steps to protect myself and my family. Your strategy appears to be to wish really hard for things to change and to decry those that don't share your trust in your wish fantasy.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Walter Sobchak on January 24, 2015, 10:18:27 AM
Don't be stupid. If someone pulls a gun on you, you are dead meat. Unless you are a martial artist like me that dodges bullets for fun.

So ridiculously lame.

Really narrows down the list of idiots behind this gimmick
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: bigmc on January 24, 2015, 10:19:36 AM
Ok. How would you make our country a "safe place to live?" Please be specific about policy changes.

you cant but with something like guns

you have to legislate by the lowest common denominator

are you safe to carry a gun i would venture you are

but there are creepy weirdos out there who can go in to a store and buy a gun

that they can then go in to a school and kill multiple victims with

i would argue you make it as difficult as possible for these people to get guns

in the uk you can get a firearm if you are a gangster

but a weirdo cant just walk up to a g and get a gun

it self regulates

do we have gun crime yes

do 18 year old creepy virgins walk in to cinemas and schools and shoot the place up

no
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 10:35:08 AM
you cant but with something like guns

you have to legislate by the lowest common denominator

are you safe to carry a gun i would venture you are

but there are creepy weirdos out there who can go in to a store and buy a gun

that they can then go in to a school and kill multiple victims with

i would argue you make it as difficult as possible for these people to get guns

in the uk you can get a firearm if you are a gangster

but a weirdo cant just walk up to a g and get a gun

it self regulates

do we have gun crime yes

do 18 year old creepy virgins walk in to cinemas and schools and shoot the place up

no

I tend to see the world in terms of "criminal" and "non-criminal". If someone is a non-criminal and you create laws and regulation to keep things away from them that others can enjoy, that is called "prior-restraint" and is unlawful. It has its roots, like most of own laws, in English law.

Until it is possible to quantify terms like "creepy" with legally justifiable language, I prefer to let all non-criminals have access. Otherwise, you are just creating a situation where only the criminals have (illegal) guns, which is sub-optimal.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Voice of Doom on January 24, 2015, 10:40:53 AM
It doesn't take much to get a CCW. Wouldn't you agree?


It sure as hell does here in Texas.  We have the most in depth background check process of any State in the Union.  All ten fingers printed, FBI database check, 8 hour class and rigorous target shooting requirements.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: evandatp on January 24, 2015, 05:08:56 PM
Some good old fashioned CS gas and ducting would be pretty easy to retrofit, along with remote lock for all doors to isolate the intruders, and a PA system and masks for the family.  "Red dog!  Red dog!  Ducks are on the pond!  Proceed to defensive position Alpha.  Countermeasures in 5,4,3,2...!"
How much remodelling would your bedroom need before you could get your backhoe behind some type of concealed panel?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 06:22:37 PM
How much remodelling would your bedroom need before you could get your backhoe behind some type of concealed panel?

Are you proposing that I stop sleeping in the backhoe?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ron Harrigan on January 24, 2015, 06:29:33 PM
So ridiculously lame.

Really narrows down the list of idiots behind this gimmick

How is the truth 'lame', Walter Suckcock?
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: evandatp on January 24, 2015, 11:09:25 PM
Are you proposing that I stop sleeping in the backhoe?
Perish the thought.

This way you can turn the surprise up to '11'.

And not just for unwelcome guests.
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Ropo on January 25, 2015, 12:33:32 AM
Don't be stupid. If someone pulls a gun on you, you are dead meat. Unless you are a martial artist like me that dodges bullets for fun.

And you call me stupid? If every time when thugs pull their gun would be killings, there would be piles of dead bodies on the street. Do you think it would be good technique? Bang...give me all your money?  Like I said, these anti gun people are eager to show their level of intelligence, which is common among the handicapped people, meaning drooling idiots  ;D
Title: Re: Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.
Post by: Tapeworm on January 25, 2015, 01:59:50 AM
Perish the thought.

This way you can turn the surprise up to '11'.

And not just for unwelcome guests.

I'll put some assless chaps on it!