Man assaulted by vigilante at a Florida Walmart.

[King Shizzo]

And yet actual proof, fact, and experience shows that your opinion is wrong. Millions of CCW holder carry every day. Where is the carnage? Where are the people killing themselves because theyare so untrained? Where is "Dodge City?"

It doesn't fucking exist! So you can stop having that opinion. We are all entitled to our own opinion, nobody is entitled to their own facts.

It doesn't take much to get a CCW. Wouldn't you agree?

[King Shizzo]

[_aj_]

It doesn't take much to get a CCW. Wouldn't you agree?

It depends on the state. I was a State Police instructor for civilian CCW in Mass and it was a 2 day course with a range test and a whole section on lethal force laws. Also in MA, the CLEO could disqualify you for any reason he felt, so in MA, you more than likely had to be white, male and somewhat politically connected if your local chief was a dick.

In NH, it's a one-page form, $5 and they have to give it to you if you don't have a record.

There is no difference in the crime that CCW holders commit in either state: zero.

[King Shizzo]

It depends on the state. I was a State Police instructor for civilian CCW in Mass and it was a 2 day course with a range test and a whole section on lethal force laws. Also in MA, the CLEO could disqualify you for any reason he felt, so in MA, you more than likely had to be white, male and somewhat politically connected if your local chief was a dick.

In NH, it's a one-page form, $5 and they have to give it to you if you don't have a record.

There is no difference in the crime that CCW holders commit in either state: zero.

I still say it should be a more uniform process.

In Fla, (my brother has his CCW) all you need is a clean record, and take a 4 hour course. Not enough required in my opinion.

[_aj_]

I still say it should be a more uniform process.

In Fla, (my brother has his CCW) all you need is a clean record, and take a 4 hour course. Not enough required in my opinion.

Most gun owners that I know make a point of getting additional instruction. In NH we are blessed with one of the finest training facilities in the world at the SigArms Academy in Epping. Courses are very reasonable and teach a variety of skills. I have probably taken 15 different intermediate and advanced courses in the past 15 years.

I just take it as a given that most CCW holders around here are hobbyists and as such have a passion for the tools that surpasses an individual police officer. Your average LEO goes through the academy with the basics of marksmanship and then "qualifies" once a year (10 shots, hit paper, no movement). I will always argue that the average CCW holder is more proficient with their weapon than the average cop.

[bigmikecox]

A simple errand turned violent for Clarence Daniels this week when he went to Walmart for some coffee creamer and wound up in a chokehold.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.” As soon as Daniels walked into the store, Foster tackled him, shouting, “He’s got a gun!” Ignoring Daniels’ repeated yells of, “I have a permit!” Foster proceeded to put him into a chokehold. When sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, they confirmed that Daniels was indeed a concealed carry permit holder and Foster was arrested and charged with battery.
 
Fortunately, no one was injured in the scuffle, which might explain why the incident was not widely covered and why the local coverage chalked it up to an honest misunderstanding. And maybe it was an honest misunderstanding. But Foster’s instinct to take matters into his own hands and attack a man he thought might pose a threat to his fellow Walmart shoppers pulls into focus the state of vigilantism in the U.S., and Florida in particular.


The rest of the article can be found here:http://news.yahoo.com/man-assaulted-by-vigilante-at-florida-walmart-230643501.html

Tampa aint no joke

[_aj_]

I still say it should be a more uniform process.

Unless somebody wants to propose a federal CCW (which likely wouldn't pass Constitutional muster), it will always be a state issue and will have variances. Federalism!

[King Shizzo]

Unless somebody wants to propose a federal CCW (which likely wouldn't pass Constitutional muster), it will always be a state issue and will have variances. Federalism!

Great! So auntie bee can get a CCW with little to no gun experience.

Hopefully she doesnt go all foxtrot at the bingo emporium.

[_aj_]

Great! So auntie bee can get a CCW with little to no gun experience.

Hopefully she doesnt go all foxtrot at the bingo emporium.

Again, "Auntie Bee" has been getting a CCW in most states now for 20 years. Show me ANYTHING to suggest that this hasn't worked out EXACTLY like the NRA said it would. Where is the death? Where are the road-rage homicides?

You're just trolling now.

[King Shizzo]

Again, "Auntie Bee" has been getting a CCW in most states now for 20 years. Show me ANYTHING to suggest that this hasn't worked out EXACTLY like the NRA said it would. Where is the death? Where are the road-rage homicides?

You're just trolling now.

[_aj_]

And it's working on me! Dang. Fell into it again.

[King Shizzo]

And it's working on me! Dang. Fell into it again.

Meltdown.

[che]

You're such a fucking loser .

[King Shizzo]

You're such a fucking loser .

Thanks.

[Ropo]

the only legitimate argument for carrying guns

is that people like guns

thats it there is no other argument

everything else is just bullshit

if you made guns illegal in the ststaes less people would be killed

they did it in austrailia and it had a dramatic effect

all the people arguing for guns just admit it makes you feel more of a man carrying a gun

its a primeval thing we are by nature hunters and killers

its buried deep but is there

guns dont kill people

people kill people

therefore give people guns and you make it easier for them to kill people

Childish bullshit. Crap like this shows what kind of intelligence is behind anti gun thinking.

1. gun is only a tool, it is for hobby, or for self defense.
2. http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/ there you can read what self defense means in USA
3. how about the guns which are in hands of gangs, criminals, terrorists etc. ? How would we fight against them, with sticks ?

If you are serious about your view, just pick any given gangster and go to him, and ask him to give his gun to be destroyed. Before doing that, leave a note for your parents, so they can write here what happen, when the funerals are etc. if someone want to send some flowers.  

[bigmc]

Yes. I do. My son happens to be very responsible. That said, the guns are in various locked boxes thought the house. Only my wife and I can get in.

This, of course, has nothing to do with my question. Do you believe that self-defense is a legitimate reason for a gun, yes or no?

bare with me

so if an armed attacker broke in to your house

you as a responsible gun owner would have to get the key unlock the box load the gun

then shooot him

im not convinced he would wait

i would therefore argue you would be better with a baseball bat next to your bed

your guns are not for self defence you need to admit this as the starting point for the debate

you would need to keeo a loaded gun next to your bed ready to snatch and shoot

as a responsibleadult you would or should not do this

[bigmc]

Childish bullshit. Crap like this shows what kind of intelligence is behind anti gun thinking.

1. gun is only a tool, it is for hobby, or for self defense.
2. http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/ there you can read what self defense means in USA
3. how about the guns which are in hands of gangs, criminals, terrorists etc. ? How would we fight against them, with sticks ?

If you are serious about your view, just pick any given gangster and go to him, and ask him to give his gun to be destroyed. Before doing that, leave a note for your parents, so they can write here what happen, when the funerals are etc. if someone want to send some flowers.  

do you have an armed police force and an army

[Tapeworm]

Is anyone over there not living in a perpetual state of fear anymore or is that the new normal?

[_aj_]

bare with me

so if an armed attacker broke in to your house

you as a responsible gun owner would have to get the key unlock the box load the gun

then shooot him

im not convinced he would wait

i would therefore argue you would be better with a baseball bat next to your bed

your guns are not for self defence you need to admit this as the starting point for the debate

you would need to keeo a loaded gun next to your bed ready to snatch and shoot

as a responsibleadult you would or should not do this

Biometric locks open with a fingerprint.

Three dogs can make quite a stir. I figure I have about 3 minutes in the dark. I have body armor to get on too.

[Tapeworm]

No night vision?  Most home invasions happen after dark.

[SF1900]

Is anyone over there not living in a perpetual state of fear anymore or is that the new normal?

No, it just the gun nuts. Sure, I can get robbed or killed when I leave my house, but I do not have that sort of fear that I feel like I need to protect myself every moment of the day.

[SaintAnger]

This is why I only live in nice neighborhoods. 

[bigmc]

Biometric locks open with a fingerprint.

Three dogs can make quite a stir. I figure I have about 3 minutes in the dark. I have body armor to get on too.

nice set up

have you tried going through the process when your heart beat is massively elevated

and you are under extreme stress

you know that biometrics can fail when you are sweating a lot

wouldnt be as easy as you think

the dogs are difinitely the best first line of defence though

[Tapeworm]

Actually a mined perimeter is the best first line of defence.

[_aj_]

nice set up

have you tried going through the process when your heart beat is massively elevated

and you are under extreme stress

you know that biometrics can fail when you are sweating a lot

wouldnt be as easy as you think

the dogs are difinitely the best first line of defence though

Not the heart rate, but I have run it at night. The first time doing it was fucking hilarious. Thank God I ran it with empty magazines.

As for night vision, only if I could afford Gen4. You get used to the best...

No replacement for home field, though. Modern man puts too much emphasis on vision. Your ears are your friend. At least until that first gun shot and then your ears are pretty much offline.