Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Army of One on March 18, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
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;D
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no
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Compelling arguments so far
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In before groink
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No idea, ask Wiggs he is on the dark side 8)
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(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Dwight-Schrute-Shakes-Head-and-Rolls-Eyes.gif)
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groink is still alive so steroids are fine.
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Interesting point about Groink, maybe Groink could maintain 16 inch arms natty. but if that takes him to 90 instead of 64, does 2inches of arm size warrant not seeing his kid grow up, grandkids, the joys of retirement?Will someone in their early 60's be looking at their arms in their hospital bed while their kids cry around them, thinking yeah those biceps were worth 30 years off?
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
Here is the thing as explained to me by my endocrinologist (who happens to be steroid friendly doctor) so not one of the normal guys who use scare tactics etc.
I had in depth discussion with him about how steroid use at low moderate doses of testosterone etc is relatively safe.
If you look on list of things that kill you steroids are someway down the list like 147th or something (talking about drugs here) like smoking, drinking, asprin etc.
He said to me that maybe so but the figure is meaningless because while we have good idea/data about how many people smoke and drink we don't really have those figures for steroid use because steroids are illegal in most countries and not really monitored.
And also because relatively speaking not that many people take steroids.
He said if you put the same amount of people who smoke cigarettes on steroids you would expect far higher death rates/complications from them.
He pretty much told me based on his experience of dealing with guys in later life who use steroids that he considers it a form of "slow suicide".
He pretty much expects a high degree of those people to end of up prostate problems for sure and far higher instances of stroke and heart failure if real actual data was collected and monitored.
I agree with him.
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Here is the thing as explained to me by my endocrinologist (who happens to be steroid friendly doctor) so not one of the normal guys who use scare tactics etc.
I had in depth discussion with him about how steroid use at low moderate doses of testosterone etc is relatively safe.
If you look on list of things that kill you steroids are someway down the list like 147th or something (talking about drugs here) like smoking, drinking, asprin etc.
He said to me that maybe so but the figure is meaningless because while we have good idea/data about how many people smoke and drink we don't really have those figures for steroid use because steroids are illegal in most countries and not really monitored.
And also because relatively speaking not that many people take steroids.
He said if you put the same amount of people who smoke cigarettes on steroids you would expect far higher death rates/complications from them.
He pretty much told me based on his experience of dealing with guys in later life who use steroids that he considers it a form of "slow suicide".
He pretty much expects a high degree of those people to end of up prostate problems for sure and far higher instances of stroke and heart failure if real actual data was collected and monitored.
I agree with him.
Very good post, thank you.Just looking for studies now, theres the one from 97 where they shortened mice's lifespans but the equivalent dose on humans would be insane, so not really applicable here.
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Interesting, the average life expectancy of an NFL player is 55, compare that to the average male of around 75.I doubt there has been an NFL player in the last 40 years who hasn't been on something.
"It is hard to put a price on the costs of the health problems related to steroids. We assumed that any additional medical costs would be covered by the player’s health care insurance, which we believe would be high quality given the strength of their employers and their union. However, we did attempt to quantify the financial effect of a shorter lifespan for a player.
It is not entirely clear how many years steroids take off of your life. Steroids unquestionably work extremely well--no denying it,” says Dr. Harrison Pope of McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass. “But they will probably shorten your life expectancy. By how much, we still don’t know (Baily 2003).” In order to make a guess at this effect, we first attempted to determine the average life expectancy of a Major League Baseball player. Unfortunately, we were not able to attain this data. We were able to determine that the average life expectancy for a football player in the National Football League is only 55 years (Neddenriep 2005). This lower life expectancy is surely due to the rigors of playing football. However, steroids are believed to also be a problem in the NFL, and some of this shortened life expectancy may be due to such drugs. The average life expectancy of an American male is 75 years (Schmid 2005). We therefore felt that a baseball player on steroids would be somewhere in between the average American male and an NFL player. We therefore conservatively chose five years as the effect of steroids on a player’s life expectancy. We then multiplied these five years times the pension earnings for a player. While we didn’t know exact pension earnings, we did learn that a star player (Cal Ripken, Jr.) will earn $160,000 per year from his pension, so we used this figure as an approximation. Therefore, a player using steroids would lose $800,000 in future pension earnings"
http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/rjmorgan/mba211/steroids%20and%20major%20league
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"I have to look at the damage I have done and that's a tough pill, the hardest pill I've ever had to swallow," he said, surrounded by several weights and workout machines inside his gym.
Ten years of steroid use took a toll on his internal organs, according to Kulka’s doctor, who also said he might not live past 65 years old. That means he could miss his children's high school graduations and other important life events.
"I'm going to pay the piper at some point, and I mean the big man," he said, pointing to the sky.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/easy-to-access-steroids-shorten-lives-former-user-says-1.1368907
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:o
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wow im honored this page after page post. if you must know i was 2 weeks away getting a kidney transplant. and they did a couple more tests to make sure saw before the next step. and they found a elevation atf level in my liver. they bioposied my liver and found a 6 cm tumor that was cancer.the diagnosis was to go through through the groind to the liver and cut off the blood to the liver and give a dosage of chemo directly not intravenus. i have done one sessioon the tumor went significantly down. they are doing one more session deffinetely most 2 and that should kill the tumor. there are no other cancerous tumors in the liver. it must be watched from now on out.the kidney transplant is not of the table. you have to be cancer free 1 full year. so i will continue dialysis till ten i have allready have done 2 years. im use to it and have revised my life around it.still work, spend time with my family. train hour cardio a day hour weights and drug free no oil either if you must no. im not going to jeaopordize my chance of getting the transplant . i have a great donor who is willing to wait and is in great shape family member so im greatful. thanks everyone for the support. facebook,twittter, derekanthony20 and instagram derekanthony20. i know a lot of people hate me but my past is my past and im just living to enjoy life help people and be a better person. people make mistakes. it is what it is even here at getbig i have met a lot of cool people had some battles with many lol i wish you all a happy and healthy thanksgiving without our health we are nothing.
take care
DA
WWW.THEDEREKANTHONYSHOW. COM
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Let the genius parade begin - lol. I need to tell the others to come read what the Getbig "gurus" have to say
This will be interesting - :)
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:o
:'(
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"the minute he started using steroids" ???
did he have a heart attack after his very first ever shot ???
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=568505.0;attach=606801;image)
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"the minute he started using steroids" ???
did he have a heart attack after his very first ever shot ???
No, but I'm sure his blood pressure went through the roof fairly quickly
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Fuck DA haters.
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^^^
Looks like flex wheeler there
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Fuck DA haters.
Who got the cap? Was there an inheritance battle over it? Along with the jewellery, website and radio show?
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
Yes
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
someone i know has been competing since the 70's, used everything, done gh and slin since his mid 30's, only comes off for a month or two at the end of the year, and is prepping for the master's currently.
has never had any health complication's and his last lot of blood work all came back in perfect ranges except his bad cholesterol which was actually LOWER than average so i don't know what to tell you.
has progressed to the international level in the past, uses minimal doses compared to what a lot of the guys on here talk about using, and still follows protocols that were given to him by the at the time mr universe which are old school as fuck and don't make any sense by what today's standards consider a good cycle, solo deca, switching compounds every few weeks and the like, doing once a week shots with no regards to the ester.
people drop dead every day for no reason, and i know its a cliche to say but if you're living every day worrying about death then it's probably not worth eeking out an extra decade or two being a shambling wreck.
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I would expect an average minus 7 - 10 years for the steroid user.
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while habitual smokers and drinkers live on to there 100 ^^
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Genetics will determine your lifespan.
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I dont see the point of doing two cycles a year.
You would be on gear 6 months a year, and trying to recover your natural testosterone the other half of the year, losing most of your gains during the process.
Its like doing one step forward, one step backward then repeat.
I honestly think you are deteriorating your health more by doing those roller coaster cycling than doing a consistent moderate dose all year.
If your bloodwork is ok you wont lose much lifespan imo and even if you do the quality of life you gain from using test is worth it.
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I dont see the point of doing two cycles a year.
You would be on gear 6 months a year, and trying to recover your natural testosterone the other half of the year, losing most of your gains during the process.
Its like doing one step forward, one step backward then repeat.
I honestly think you are deteriorating your health more by doing those roller coaster cycling than doing a consistent moderate dose all year.
If your bloodwork is ok you wont lose much lifespan imo and even if you do the quality of life you gain from using test is worth it.
I disagree, I like cycling.
Actually let me rephrase that, its not so much that I like cycling (cos I fucking hate coming off)
But that it can be pretty darn effective protocol.
Lets just keep shit real here for a second, you ain't making any serious gains on 250mg a week year around....don't give a fuck what anyone says, this is the Gal/UK Jeff type bullshit that was spouted around when those guys know perfectly well they were juiced to their eyes balls in their younger year to make them gains and were just maintaining on low doses years after
Now lets also face the fact that most guys ain't gonna be able to handle larger doses long term.
So to blast heavy for 3-4 months, kinda like how Sev used to do makes perfect sense, say if you wanna look dope for summer or something.
But truth is you have to come off and accept that shit is temporary.
Also losing gains ain't as big a deal cos of muscle memory and when you blast again you get them gains back just as quick to the dick.
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
I bet steroids take a few years off,nothing crazy but a few years who wants to be real old anyway? 75-80 is cool but I don't want to live till I'm 90.
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I bet steroids take a few years off,nothing crazy but a few years who wants to be real old anyway? 75-80 is cool but I don't want to live till I'm 90.
About 15 years is the average ball park estimate.
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well as a 50 year old dude. my bp is 109/59 and my resting hr is 56-60 depending. that's at 226 pounds on 100 mgs test phenylprop, 200 mgs tren ace wk.
these are honest numbers not " i have to win" numbers. i have no health issues whatsoever, i have a clean bill of health from my dr. don't take any meds besides the occasional tums or advil.
i'm low dose all the way, always will be. i have never put 500 mg of gear in my body as a weekly dose. most was 400 for a month or two.
i think low dose and CARDIO are key. i'm a cardio freak in my old age
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do cardio
eat as clean as possible
avoid orals
donate blood
monitor apnea
monitor BP
genetics all determine the rest. May dad juiced his whole life he is 71 and healthy on TRT. I'm 41 and still pushing
stress will kill you before anything, enjoy life
How often should one give blood if they blast n cruise? Also are there any signs to look out for?
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well as a 50 year old dude. my bp is 109/59 and my resting hr is 56-60 depending. that's at 226 pounds on 100 mgs test phenylprop, 200 mgs tren ace wk.
these are honest numbers not " i have to win" numbers. i have no health issues whatsoever, i have a clean bill of health from my dr. don't take any meds besides the occasional tums or advil.
i'm low dose all the way, always will be. i have never put 500 mg of gear in my body as a weekly dose. most was 400 for a month or two.
i think low dose and CARDIO are key. i'm a cardio freak in my old age
WELL DONE..AT LEAST YOUR SENSIBLE.
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well as a 50 year old dude. my bp is 109/59 and my resting hr is 56-60 depending. that's at 226 pounds on 100 mgs test phenylprop, 200 mgs tren ace wk.
these are honest numbers not " i have to win" numbers. i have no health issues whatsoever, i have a clean bill of health from my dr. don't take any meds besides the occasional tums or advil.
i'm low dose all the way, always will be. i have never put 500 mg of gear in my body as a weekly dose. most was 400 for a month or two.
i think low dose and CARDIO are key. i'm a cardio freak in my old age
Yeah, conditioning is key. Even better if it's done outdoors doing something fun - mountain biking, trails, climbing, rucking.
I actually started to like doing rucks with 45 pounds in the dark, late Nov/Dec.....was pretty peaceful outside under the stars just moving along......the crazy amount of snow we got still makes that dangerous right now, so it's the f'n treadmill, which doesn't compare at all.
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Yeah, conditioning is key. Even better if it's done outdoors doing something fun - mountain biking, trails, climbing, rucking.
I actually started to like doing rucks with 45 pounds in the dark, late Nov/Dec.....was pretty peaceful outside under the stars just moving along......the crazy amount of snow we got still makes that dangerous right now, so it's the f'n treadmill, which doesn't compare at all.
that blows...but at least you're still getting it in.
yeah cardio is super important. i have self imposed rules that kinda force me to live a non-lazy life. my grocery store is 3 miles away, i don't take my car and do a huge once a week shopping. i take me bike and my backpack, and get a day's food for the household. the next day. my ass is on the bike going to get food yet again. that's six miles a day minimum. i bike to the gym, (1 mile each way) and use it for pretty much all the little bullshit errands that i can. there are exceptions of course, if my kid wants to come with me or i need to restock staples,etc.... but i think you see how it works. i leave the car in the driveway if it's doable
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How often should one give blood if they blast n cruise? Also are there any signs to look out for?
Red Cross will allow every 56 days. Go by what your hemoglobin average is, they will test it each time
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that blows...but at least you're still getting it in.
yeah cardio is super important. i have self imposed rules that kinda force me to live a non-lazy life. my grocery store is 3 miles away, i don't take my car and do a huge once a week shopping. i take me bike and my backpack, and get a day's food for the household. the next day. my ass is on the bike going to get food yet again. that's six miles a day minimum. i bike to the gym, (1 mile each way) and use it for pretty much all the little bullshit errands that i can. there are exceptions of course, if my kid wants to come with me or i need to restock staples,etc.... but i think you see how it works. i leave the car in the driveway if it's doable
THATS like living in nyc car is sometimes not needed...I walk to things in my neiborhood all the time.
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walking is my favorite cardio, I like to think/reflect/plan shit while I walk.
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Joon raises a very good point...statistically there's 26% of men in UK are smokers..worldwide there's just under 1 Billion smokers as a rough estimate....if that number was swapped for steroid usage I wonder how the public health sector would cope.
People say my dad used steroids til 90..etc. I said this before on here I knew a homless guy who has been a hueroin addict for decades on and off, now he's middle aged and still balding homlessness and alcohol and drugs. Would be stupid if I used him as an example that heroine is safe
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I can only use get big on my fine as site is blocked at work....some funny word swaps :(
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Here is something to ponder on the flip side of the coin in regards to heart issues :
Obviously with huge cycles that people (not just pros) are doing, one can pretty much claim without argument that it is taking it's toil on the heart. But is it the steroids themselves (compounds) or simply the huge amount of oil by product that is being pumped into the body and dispersed through the system?
The actual amount of steroids in 1ml is very very small. 80-85% of the volume is simply nothing more than oil that is used to keep the drug suspended and from crashing back into a cystallized state.
I believe most of the heart and health issues come from the amount of oil that being put in the body and it builds up over time. For those people doing 4 grams of roids per week, I can't imagine the body eliminating all that oil that quickly.
Now take into account the rest of the "mix" that UGs are using in their products. Higher levels of BB and BA just because you can't trust the Chinese raws half the time. Some are adding EO to the mix in order to eliminate post inject pain. Guaiacol.... and so on. Ever seen what EO can do to a rubber stopper? Draw up a shot of something made with it and leave it in the syringe for a day or two. Then look at the stopper and you will see it is starting to dissolve. Think your arteries and veins are more durable than rubber?
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that blows...but at least you're still getting it in.
yeah cardio is super important. i have self imposed rules that kinda force me to live a non-lazy life. my grocery store is 3 miles away, i don't take my car and do a huge once a week shopping. i take me bike and my backpack, and get a day's food for the household. the next day. my ass is on the bike going to get food yet again. that's six miles a day minimum. i bike to the gym, (1 mile each way) and use it for pretty much all the little bullshit errands that i can. there are exceptions of course, if my kid wants to come with me or i need to restock staples,etc.... but i think you see how it works. i leave the car in the driveway if it's doable
No more face plants on the bike ??? ;D
...I'm like Grape, cant fnking wait to get outside and trail run and hike....Groink I bet you would have blast doing an obstacle course race.
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well as a 50 year old dude. my bp is 109/59 and my resting hr is 56-60 depending. that's at 226 pounds on 100 mgs test phenylprop, 200 mgs tren ace wk.
these are honest numbers not " i have to win" numbers. i have no health issues whatsoever, i have a clean bill of health from my dr. don't take any meds besides the occasional tums or advil.
i'm low dose all the way, always will be. i have never put 500 mg of gear in my body as a weekly dose. most was 400 for a month or two.
i think low dose and CARDIO are key. i'm a cardio freak in my old age
yeah, but you just started juicing a couple of years ago, which might make a difference health-wise from a 50 year old guy who's been doing it on and off since say his 20s, 30s or early 40s.
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Low doses year round is a non issue. Plus the quality of life improvement you get far outweights the possible issues.
I think there are other aspects to the bodybuilding "life style" that are way more dangerous: abuse of pain killers, over eating, no cardio, not moving very much, using orals, gay4p etc.
Abuse is bad. I know most people want to look very huge but injecting 4 grams of steroids when your body produces about 100 mg a week is just playing with fire.
Besides, I'm with Groink and AJ: using 250 mg a week WILL get you good results in the long term (it will take years instead of weeks but worth it IMO). Frankly, I wish I had fallen to the dark side a couple of years ago. I probably would kept on lifting instead of getting discouraged and stopping to do cardio only instead.
I was wondering if I should stop but seeing my bloodwork immaculate (my cholesterol actually got lower, maybe because of the small amount of equi I am using, plus all of my joint pains are just gone... low dose equi is amazing, I'm taking 100 mg test/150 mgs equi a week, I know pussy dosage but works for ME), there is no reason to come off. ...
Plus, genetics is huge, biggest factor by far.
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I think it completely depends on the type of steroids you use and how much you use
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yeah, but you just started juicing a couple of years ago, which might make a difference health-wise from a 50 year old guy who's been doing it on and off since say his 20s, 30s or early 40s.
Good point, a healthy 60 yr old starting trt would be a different guinea pig as opposed to someone who juiced in his 20s and now heading to the 60s. Even a juicer stating at 40 cannot be compared with someone who's 40 and got 20 years or so of juicing under the belt
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Here is something to ponder on the flip side of the coin in regards to heart issues :
Obviously with huge cycles that people (not just pros) are doing, one can pretty much claim without argument that it is taking it's toil on the heart. But is it the steroids themselves (compounds) or simply the huge amount of oil by product that is being pumped into the body and dispersed through the system?
The actual amount of steroids in 1ml is very very small. 80-85% of the volume is simply nothing more than oil that is used to keep the drug suspended and from crashing back into a cystallized state.
I believe most of the heart and health issues come from the amount of oil that being put in the body and it builds up over time. For those people doing 4 grams of roids per week, I can't imagine the body eliminating all that oil that quickly.
Now take into account the rest of the "mix" that UGs are using in their products. Higher levels of BB and BA just because you can't trust the Chinese raws half the time. Some are adding EO to the mix in order to eliminate post inject pain. Guaiacol.... and so on. Ever seen what EO can do to a rubber stopper? Draw up a shot of something made with it and leave it in the syringe for a day or two. Then look at the stopper and you will see it is starting to dissolve. Think your arteries and veins are more durable than rubber?
Good point.
There is no doubt that taking steroids have an adverse effect on your health. It all boils down to genetics, the dose/duration of use and the general health and well-being of the individual. Healthy people who take steroids probably have nothing to worry about.
We can all bro-science our way out of believing the potential health risks or not. Bottom line, they most certainly can and will cause health problems in the vast majority of people who use them. Even more so on those that abuse them.
There is a huge gap in a healthy adult taking 100mg of Pharma Test and a unhealthy adult taking a mixture of compounds made from Chinese garbage in someones kitchen.
Is anything from China worth a shit?
I've spoken many times about having doubts about the safety of steroids and UGL compounds in general. After 10+ years of using and abusing steroids; knowing hundreds of average gym rats and competitive "athletes"; there is no doubt in my mind that steroids cause health problems in the majority of users. I'm living proof, I've seen my own bloodwork go to shit and rebound back to perfect. There has never been a time in my life that using steroids did not have a negative impact on my blood work to "some" degree.
That being said, using low doses, doing blood work, good diet, cardio and generally being a healthy person; I'd say the risk isn't much.
8)
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It's all genetics.
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;D first guy that they attributed to dying young from steroids, his training partner was scared to death yet he still lives all these many years later..... ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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training partner was born in 1939 and still walks the planet.
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but the next guy in that lineage is dead. note all New York Italians.
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but the next guy in that lineage is dead. note all New York Italians.
should have used dennis instead Travolta Saturday nite fever....renamed Saturday roid fever..
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should have used dennis instead Travolta Saturday nite fever....renamed Saturday roid fever..
Do you think some cowbell would be of assistance for fever relief here???
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Do you think some cowbell would be of assistance for fever relief here???
LOL...YEAH..MORE COWBELL..
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should have used dennis instead Travolta Saturday nite fever....renamed Saturday roid fever..
tinnerino actually tried out for the godfather, casting agency told him he was too ethnic looking.. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o :o
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LOL...YEAH..MORE COWBELL..
It's the solution to 98% of all problems...
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should have used dennis instead Travolta Saturday nite fever....renamed Saturday roid fever..
and of course you heard the story how the producers of sat nite fever saw pumping iron and borrowed the scene where ferrigno is primping in the mirror and at the table, and used it in snf.... with travolta... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I plan and have been going at it since early 20s. I'm 31 now. Had some blood pressure issues with tren and eq dropped those for good. I dropped orals if use them it's for a week or two. I had to learn first hand what my body tolerates and what it doesn't. Pick a few compounds that don't throw you way out of whack and run responsibley.
When I'm like 40-45 ill scale it back to trt test and a little deca. Hopefully I can live to at least 70.
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tinnerino actually tried out for the godfather, casting agency told him he was too ethnic looking.. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :o :o
REALLY,,,thats weird I've read that caan said pacino could have been sonny but he couldn't be michael'coppola 'wated some one Sicilian looking to play Michael,sonny was more easier for caan to fill bill...
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
as a statistics specialist, i say without a doubt, yes. it is fact that any chemical that is not regulated or produced by your own body has effects that are to your detriment. given a large enough sample, you will see a difference.
whether it be by ageing faster or any other altered process. anyone who tries to say it wont just simply has their heads in the sand.
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No more face plants on the bike ??? ;D
...I'm like Grape, cant fnking wait to get outside and trail run and hike....Groink I bet you would have blast doing an obstacle course race.
No that's gay .
;D ;D
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also...another huge factor.
smoking cigs will kill you dead.
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also...another huge factor.
smoking cigs will kill you dead.
There's no science in the world that can account for why Ruhl is still alive.
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There's no science in the world that can account for why Ruhl is still alive.
HaHaHaaa.....for the time being.
don't want to wish ill on anyone, but I don't see that dude living to a ripe old age. but genetics are what they are. total crapshoot.
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HaHaHaaa.....for the time being.
don't want to wish ill on anyone, but I don't see that dude living to a ripe old age. but genetics are what they are. total crapshoot.
dude hasn't been ripe for yrs...
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Fuck DA haters.
he knew he was dying in that picture. You can see it in his eyes.
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dude hasn't been ripe for yrs...
yep. dude looks tired and beat up. i think he's around 40 ? and he looks older than me...ugh.
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yep. dude looks tired and beat up. i think he's around 40 ? and he looks older than me...ugh.
internally he's 140...
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
In good honesty i believe it wouldn't be diferences in ages of deaths in both groups, but yes it would be a lot more prostate problems in the roided group.
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yeah, but you just started juicing a couple of years ago, which might make a difference health-wise from a 50 year old guy who's been doing it on and off since say his 20s, 30s or early 40s.
fair point. i'm going on 4 years now.
I can't say it was intentional but when I was younger i knew i didn't need to do it...sure guys looked better thahn me, more vascular and lean, but i basically listened to my gut and held off even though I knew I could brutally pwn them. and it turns out I did something wise for a change
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that blows...but at least you're still getting it in.
yeah cardio is super important. i have self imposed rules that kinda force me to live a non-lazy life. my grocery store is 3 miles away, i don't take my car and do a huge once a week shopping. i take me bike and my backpack, and get a day's food for the household. the next day. my ass is on the bike going to get food yet again. that's six miles a day minimum. i bike to the gym, (1 mile each way) and use it for pretty much all the little bullshit errands that i can. there are exceptions of course, if my kid wants to come with me or i need to restock staples,etc.... but i think you see how it works. i leave the car in the driveway if it's doable
Ah so you're "that guy who always brings his back pack to the store" just like me 8)
I got tired of store workers getting on to me for wearing it down the aisles so now I just drop it off up front to save the hassle.
I agree though, it's a good little way to get in some cardio and save on gas.
If I get a wild hair I'll occasionally leave the bike at home and walk to the store.
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There are a number of mitigating factors to consider. If the person taking steroids is abusing them, there is a greater chance of side effects. Bodybuilders who weigh significantly more then they should for their height are at a greater risk of weight related illnesses, regardless whether it is fat or muscle. Everyone reacts differently to medications. If you don't monitor how you feel or better yet, see your doctor on a regular basis, you have a higher risk of having health issues and not knowing it.
My urologist told me when I saw him yesterday, that I can go to once a year checkups with him since my PSA has remained undetectable for nearly three years following the prostatectomy. He also doesn't have any issue with my being on HRT, since I tolerate it well, with no sides and it makes me feel better. Labs showed my hematocrit to be right on. Some folks on testosterone develop issues with this. I believe that contributes to the likelihood of someone having a stroke. My blood pressure was 118/82, which is probably better than some of you youngsters here.
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Average dude, decides at 25 he wants to get jacked, does 2 cycles a year of 500mg a week of test only, comes off in the proper fashion, continues doing this until he dies.Another guy just lifts natty until death.Take a sample size of 10 million average guys on one side, 10 million on the other, would you personally expect much difference in the life expectancy of both groups? Has any study ever been done on life expectancy on test etc? Again we aren't talking Derek Anthony or that Alex Arizian cycles here.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a3SEDKoK8xk/maxresdefault.jpg)
(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads8/nubret21158950432.jpg)
(http://cdn.muscleandstrength.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/interviews/frank-zane/zane-experience.jpg)
Etc, etc... All of them have done (some still doing) more drugs than Vince Goodrum failed at bussiness ventures, nuff' said.
Speaking of current slin/painkillers generation - that won't end well, obviously.
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Ah so you're "that guy who always brings his back pack to the store" just like me 8)
I got tired of store workers getting on to me for wearing it down the aisles so now I just drop it off up front to save the hassle.
I agree though, it's a good little way to get in some cardio and save on gas.
If I get a wild hair I'll occasionally leave the bike at home and walk to the store.
YUP..ha ha ;D
first couple of times i was like "what ? fuck you" because here they ask you to leave your pack up front, but i get it.
i actually like it, pop on the headphones..bug out to some tunes and ride..it's fun.
can't do the walking..it's so damn slow, LOL
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I'm living proof, I've seen my own bloodwork go to shit and rebound back to perfect. There has never been a time in my life that using steroids did not have a negative impact on my blood work to "some" degree.
That's how you can determine if your genetics are forgiveable to that stuff. I've done a BT after good 4(can't remember, posted that here too) months of a decent dose of tren. Was expecting something quite negative Well... even mycholesterol (which is a culprit for many tren users) was close to perfect, and that shit was a legit chinish Trenax, the best there is. Go figure...
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No that's gay .
;D ;D
No I don't mean the gay "I wish I was a Navy Seal, lets train for 24hrs straight" stuff Grape and Soul do :D
...I mean like 5k, train for a few weeks enjoy yourself , have a few beers after and see some hot chicks in spandex covered in mud ;D
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I had a lot of tests done a year after i cleaned out. Originally the endo had a go at me for taking roids but when the tests came back she said there were no problems. The main thing i worry about is carrying extra size, i am 198 lean as i can go at 5'8' and while i feel fine at this weight and obviously very low BF, i wonder if that is too much stress overall. I have done a lot of cardio since i cleaned out which was many years ago and my cardio level is great. I just wonder if i was say 185 or so would i feel any better and have less risk on me.
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I had a lot of tests done a year after i cleaned out. Originally the endo had a go at me for taking roids but when the tests came back she said there were no problems. The main thing i worry about is carrying extra size, i am 198 lean as i can go at 5'8' and while i feel fine at this weight and obviously very low BF, i wonder if that is too much stress overall. I have done a lot of cardio since i cleaned out which was many years ago and my cardio level is great. I just wonder if i was say 185 or so would i feel any better and have less risk on me.
I THINK YOUR FINE IMO,,IF YOU WERE SAY 210/220 RANGE WITH BP ISSUES/OR NOT SO TIGHT CONDITION I'D SAY YOU NEVER KNOW.
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I THINK YOUR FINE IMO,,IF YOU WERE SAY 210/220 RANGE WITH BP ISSUES/OR NOT SO TIGHT CONDITION I'D SAY YOU NEVER KNOW.
The only thing i ever had high was ALT and AST after i cleaned out, but once i stopped eating too much it went to normal. The red blood cell count kept going up every test when i was on gear, normal was 16 i was going 18.2 then 18.3 then 18.4 every 3 months. I never drank or used any other drugs once when on gear i took that risk seriously.
I would say using gear is not the worst thing in the world, being too heavy can be bad, mixing other drugs in including alcohol can be bad. It's just more stress on a body that's going to have higher levels of some things while on gear.
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I had a lot of tests done a year after i cleaned out. Originally the endo had a go at me for taking roids but when the tests came back she said there were no problems. The main thing i worry about is carrying extra size, i am 198 lean as i can go at 5'8' and while i feel fine at this weight and obviously very low BF, i wonder if that is too much stress overall. I have done a lot of cardio since i cleaned out which was many years ago and my cardio level is great. I just wonder if i was say 185 or so would i feel any better and have less risk on me.
Most likely, you'd be healthier at 185 as long as you remain stay fit.
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A couple of getbiggers are referenced as case studies on humans.
2. VASCULAR EVENTS
Androgens have been discussed to predispose to thrombosis by effecting the structure and function of vascular tissues. Structurally, androgens decrease
elastin and increase collagen and other fibrous proteins in arterial vascular tissue and skin (20–23). Functionally, androgens have been linked with an
enhancement of vascular reactivity and with a decrease in aortic smooth muscle prostaglandin 12(24). Consistent with these findings has been the identifica-
tion of specific androgen receptors in the vascular tissues of several animal species(25). Further evidence implicates that androgens may affect platelet
function and there are data to support steroid-induced alterations in all stages of the coagulation cascade(9).
Recently, Tischer et al.(26) reported the case of a 32-year-old male body builder who died of cardiac arrest (CA) attributable to long-term abuse of
anabolic steroids. Coronary angiography and autopsy findings showed ectasia of the coronary arteries with hypertrophic intima and media. Such structural
changes of the coronary arteries together with the alterations of the lipid pro-files predispose users of anabolic steroids to the development of thrombosis.
3. MYOCARDIAL ALTERATIONS
3.1. Ventricular Hypertrophy and Fibrosis
Structural effects of AAS could be demonstrated both in studies on primary myocardial cell cultures(27)and in animal experiments (28–30). Addi-tionally, quantitative electron microscopy showed an enlargement of thesarcoplasmatic space and an imbalance of the mitochondrial–myofibrillar ratio.When the administration of anabolic steroids and training are combined, pathological alterations such as destruction of mitochondria and aberrant myofibrils, focal dehiscent intercalated discs, necrotic cells, mitochondrial disruption, and a decrease in myocyte capillary supply can be observed(31,32)
There is also evidence of an increased collagen production in experimental animals after steroid exposure(30).
Structural alterations to the heart have also been observed in humans.Luke et al.(12)reported the case of a previously healthy 21-year-old steroid-abusing weight lifter who died of CA. In addition to renal hypertrophy and hepatosplenomegaly, biventricular hypertrophy could be detected. The myocardium showed extensive fibrosis, small foci of necrosis, and myocytes with
contraction band necrosis. Additionally, cases with widespread patchy fibrosis(13,15), cardiomyopathy(33), and ventricular hypertrophy(34,35)have appeared in the literature. Myocardial fibrosis is thought to be caused by alack of blood supply in the hypertrophic myocardium(36). Melchert(37)sug-gested four hypothetical models of AAS-induced adverse cardiovascular effects: (a) an atherogenic model involving the effects of AAS on lipoprotein concentrations, (b) a thrombosis model involving the effects of AAS on clotting factors and platelets, (c) a vasospasm model involving the effects of AAS on the vascular nitric oxide system, and (d) a direct myocardial injury model involving the effects of AAS on individual myocardial cells. The existence of a concentric left ventricular (LV) hypertrophy in strength-trained athletes is still a topic of debate but is rejected according to a recent clinical study (38). In some highly trained athletes, the thickness of the LV wall may increase as a consequence of exercise training. In these athletes, the differential diagnosis between physiological and pathological hypertrophy may be difficult or impossible. On the basis of echocardiography data, the upper limit to which the thickness of the LV wall may be increased by training appears to be 16 mm. Therefore, athletes with a wall thickness of more than 16 mm are likely to have primary forms of pathological hypertrophy, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, possibly associated with a long-term AAS abuse
(39,40) Guggenheim Et al (Getbig) recently reported that all of the above is irrelevant and just drink your milk, take your vitamins, do more cardio and you wont have anything to worry about.
3.2. Myocardial Infarction
Several case reports dealing with sudden cardiac death as a result of acute MI following steroid abuse have been published. The first documented MI in an athlete using anabolic steroids was that of a 22-year-old world-class weight lifter with no past or family history of cardiac diseases who claimed to have used the drugs for only 6 weeks (10). Angiography was normal, total choles-terol and LDL cholesterol were markedly elevated and HDL cholesterol depressed conversely. The proposed etiology in this case was coronary artery spasm combined with increased platelet aggregation, both secondary to ana-bolic steroid abuse.
A further case of fatal acute MI associated with depressed HDL and elevated LDL cholesterol was reported in a 29-year-old male body builder with secondary analphalipoproteinemia (41). A 23-year-old body builder presented with severe tight retrosternal chest pain. He had been using anabolic steroids for the past 5 years, at least 5 weeks previously. He was a nonsmoker with no family history of heart disease. His
electrocardiogram showed evidence of an acute lateral infarction, and despite treatment with streptokinase he subsequently developed signs of a full thickness infarct with a rise in cardiac enzyme activities (11).Ferenchick (42) described the case of a 22-year-old athlete who died of MI. Postmortem examination revealed occlusion of the left main and left-anterior descending coronary arteries by acute thrombosis.
A 37-year-old weight lifter suffered an MI after 7 years of steroid abuse. Cardiac catheterization 3 days after treatment with intravenous tissue plasmi-nogen activator showed a normal LV function and unremarkable coronary arteries (14) Huie (17) described the case of a 25-year-old male amateur weight trainer with no prior medical history who suffered from an acute MI. The patient
denied using illicit drugs except for anabolic steroids. To improve his strength, he took his first weekly 100-mg dose of nandrolone decanoate intramuscularly 16 weeks prior to his admission to hospital and continued this for 6 weeks. He stopped using it for the following 4 weeks, but then resumed the injections at the higher dose of 200 mg for another 6 weeks. His last injection took place 2 days prior to his admission to hospital. In this case, a coronary thrombosis was lysed with urokinase and a follow-up angiogram revealed only slight residual wall irregularities. The patient did well with cardiac rehabilitation and was discharged home 13 days after the MI took place. Although the specific cause of coronary thrombosis in this patient remains unknown, hematologic effects of this class of drugs and the subsequent impact on ischemic heart disease have to be considered
CASE REPORTS: LITERATURE REVIEW
Only a paucity of published autopsy cases of fatal steroid abuse including detailed description of postmortem findings is available so far. In 1990, Luke et al. presented the case of a previously healthy 21-year-
old weight lifter who collapsed during a bench press workout(12). He had taken AAS (testosterone and nandrolone) parenterally over a period of several months. Autopsy findings included marked LV and right ventricular hypertro-phy of the heart with extensive regional myocardial fibrosis. The coronary arteries exhibited no evidence of atherosclerosis. The cardiac valves were unremarkable. Microscopic examination of the heart revealed regional fibro-sis with principal involvement of the subepicardial and central LV and inter-ventricular septal areas but without evidence of inflammation. Additionally,
there were several tiny foci of acute myocardial fiber necrosis accompanied by sparse neutrophilic and round cell infiltrates. Occasionally, myocardial fibers exhibited contraction band formation. Furthermore, there was marked bilat-eral renal hypertrophy and hepatosplenomegaly. Gross inspection and micro-scopic examination of the other organs revealed no significant pathological
abnormalities aside from pulmonary edema. Two possible etiologies of the cardiac findings were discussed by the authors: (a) occult episode of viral or toxic myocarditis, and (b) rapid growth of the myocardium induced by the steroids thus leading to a deficiency in myocardial blood supply. Madea and Grellner (35) reported two cases of body builders who usedoral anabolic steroids (Dianabol ® , Oral-Turinabol® ) for more than 10 years.
One of them, a 28-year-old adipose male (weight 136 kg, height 178 cm) developed severe cardiovascular side effects such as atherosclerosis, recur-rent MI, and stroke as well as enlargement of all internal organs (organ weights: heart 800 g, liver 5719 g, both kidneys 910 g). Histological examination revealed disseminated interstitial as well as perivascular fibrosis and focal scars in the myocardium as well as signs of chronic congestion of the lungs, liver, and spleen. Furthermore, the authors observed sclerosis of the coronary arteries without significant occlusions. An acute cardiac failure as a result ofmassive biventricular hypertrophy (“cor bovinum”) was discussed as the actual cause of death. The other case dealt with a 40-year-old male who committed suicide by a gun shot to the head. The main pathological findings were ven-tricular hypertrophy (heart weight 470 g), acute myocardial necrosis adjacent to a myocardial scar, mild sclerosis of the coronary arteries, mild atheroscle-rosis, encephalomalcia in cerebellum and brain stem without any cerebroscle- rosis, and an old infarction in the right kidney. Recently, this author portrayed the case of a 23-year-old male body builder who had used anabolic steroids in combination with other performance enhancing drugs over a period of about 9 months and died of acute CA with- out previous symptoms (59) . After he had visited a dance hall, he went to bed.Six hours later he was found unconscious. Resuscitation attempts performed by an emergency physician were not successful. Table 1 lists the drugs that were were found in the apartment. In brief, gross autopsy findings were as follows: body weight 94 kg, height size 192 cm, male of athletic build, hyper-trophy of the heart (weight 500 g), dilatation of the right ventricle, focal indu-ration of the endocardium, soft and fragile liver parenchyma, cerebral edema, acute congestion of liver, spleen, and kidneys. Histologically, the myocar-dium showed enlargement and nuclear polymorphism of the LV muscle fibers. Additionally, disseminated focal necroses with loss of nuclear staining, inter- stitial fibrosis, and dehiscense of intercalated discs (Fig. 1A,B) were found. Capillary hyperemia, platelet aggregations and several fibrinous clots were found in the lungs, liver and kidneys (Figs. 2 and 3). Several small, cystic, blood-filled spaces were scattered throughout the liver parenchyma, partly lined by sinusoidal cells, and the hepatocytes showed nuclear fat-free vacu-oles. The various effects of these substances on cardiac function itself and on electrolyte concentrations that also influence the cardiac system were thought to explain death as a result of sudden myocardial dysfunction on the basis of AAS-associated alterations of the myocardium. This case report illustrates well the adverse effects of performance enhancing drugs on different organ systems. The case also reports that people die from smoking and drinking, and get run over every day, so therefore you might as well take gear anyway and completely fuck up your heart in the process too.
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It's amusing how people try and validate/justify their behavior... "the doctor said I was fine"... really?
Just because a recent doctors visit didn't show abnormalities doesn't mean you are in the clear. The damage may not show itself until much later... 10-30 years from now, like smoking and drinking. The cancer is there, but it takes years to fully develop and kill you.
The majority of hardcore juicers will not live to see their 60th birthday. :-\
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There's no science in the world that can account for why Ruhl is still alive.
He smokes more than anyone I have ever personally been around. I thought he was fucking with us lighting one after another.. Looked like a silverback smoking a cig
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About 15 years is the average ball park estimate.
[/quote
WTF?? Dude you spout some ignorant shit - (chest out all "confident"-lol) " about 15 years is the ballpark estimate" - (said in a mocking douchebag voice). LOLOL where the fuck do you little guys come from.. Scrawny at a disgusting 17% bf and trying to post as if you are some kind of authority.. I am certain you've never competed in this thing of ours and I would guess that you have done this for 5-6 years or less.. Probably juiced from the start so only have a half dozen years AT BEST of experience but it's been spent doing shit the wrong way if your still a scrawny armed fat-body
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WTF?? Dude you spout some ignorant shit - (chest out all "confident"-lol) " about 15 years is the ballpark estimate" - (said in a mocking douchebag voice). LOLOL where the fuck do you little guys come from.. Scrawny at a disgusting 17% bf and trying to post as if you are some kind of authority.. I am certain you've never competed in this thing of ours and I would guess that you have done this for 5-6 years or less.. Probably juiced from the start so only have a half dozen years AT BEST of experience but it's been spent doing shit the wrong way if your still a scrawny armed fat-body
He started juicing less than a year ago and has tried and failed about 10 different protocols in that time. Rec drugs, booze, and sickening lack of willpower gets him all the time. Who the fuck knows what he's using now.
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It's amusing how people try and validate/justify their behavior... "the doctor said I was fine"... really?
Just because a recent doctors visit didn't show abnormalities doesn't mean you are in the clear. The damage may not show itself until much later... 10-30 years from now, like smoking and drinking. The cancer is there, but it takes years to fully develop and kill you.
The majority of hardcore juicers will not live to see their 60th birthday. :-\
How come most of golden era guys are still alive AND many still lift? :-\
Most of these "death wishes" are very ridiculous. Current pros, well, that's another thing. Many other drugs besides the aas/peptides go into their bodies.
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It's amusing how people try and validate/justify their behavior... "the doctor said I was fine"... really?
Just because a recent doctors visit didn't show abnormalities doesn't mean you are in the clear. The damage may not show itself until much later... 10-30 years from now, like smoking and drinking. The cancer is there, but it takes years to fully develop and kill you.
The majority of hardcore juicers will not live to see their 60th birthday. :-\
most of the guys from arnold days are still here, the ones that died lived above 60
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