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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on December 01, 2015, 08:59:31 AM
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What is it with NYC and this constant attempt to create a nanny state?
New York is the first city in the US to add sodium warnings to menus
Updated by Julia Belluz on December 1, 2015
@juliaoftoronto julia.belluz@voxmedia.com
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Do you want to know how much salt lurks in your big slice?
For years, New York City has served as a petri dish for public health experiments. The city was the first to ban trans fats and the first to mandate calorie menu labeling at restaurants. Now New York will also be the first US city to tackle excess salt consumption with new menu labels.
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JGeIzStKVjQhUytxTAdU4IC0m8A=/600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4310593/salt-feature.0.jpg)
(New York Department of Health)
Starting December 1, all chain restaurants with 15 or more locations nationwide will have to post a little salt shaker symbol next to menu items that contain more than 2,300 milligrams of sodium (about a teaspoon worth). Restaurants will also be required to warn consumers that eating a lot of salt can increase the risk of heart disease and stroke.
But will this initiative actually encourage people to eat healthier? Probably not. Based on the research we have on calorie menu labeling, this experiment likely won't have a huge direct impact ... though it could have smaller indirect effects.
Here's why. First, the rule only applies to foods that are wildly, excessively salty. To put this in context, 2,300 milligrams is the daily recommended limit for total sodium consumption. New York's law will only apply to individual foods that reach that level all by themselves. Why the city didn't set a lower warning threshold is unclear, but it means the labels will miss all the heavily salted foods that stay under that limit — like the meatball sandwich at the Olive Garden shown here, which contains nearly a day's worth of sodium:
(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fAJ2DOCXShW1jB3MhwiidrbLZ_E=/1600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3339538/Sodium_Equivalency_Chart-final.0.png)
The rule is also limited in another way: It'll only apply to bigger chain restaurants, which the health department estimates captures about 10 percent of the restaurant foods people eat. So New Yorkers may now get a quick sense of whether their Panera sandwich is too salty, but they won't know if there's a load of salt in the meals they buy at their local sushi bar every week.
Finally, it's not clear that menu labeling actually has any impact on health outcomes. The best evidence we have on the question relates to calorie labeling, and it's pretty mixed. It appears that people who are already calorie-conscious do pay attention to labels, but those who aren't don't. In other words, just having that information displayed doesn't change people's behaviors.
That said, the sodium label could have a few indirect consequences. In particular, newer research has suggested that calorie labeling can compel chains to cut the number of calories in their fare. Maybe the sodium labels will have the same result. And at the very least, it's a step toward transparency and giving people a better sense of what's in the food they're eating.
http://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9822268/new-york-sodium-menu-label
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What's wrong with encouraging consumer awareness
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I don't see a problem with this. I kind of like seeing the calorie counts of things anyway. I think restaurants add too much salt. Its good to know in order to make a informed decision.
Otherwise where can i get the info from?
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What's wrong with encouraging consumer awareness
Nothing. I have a problem with forcing small businesses to incur the expense of doing this.
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not a bad idea.
sodium can cause way more damage than "calories". Americans throwing down 1800 mg of sodium with a hot dog because they can live with the calories.
Info is a good thing. People have the FREEDOM to use it as they wish. and the macro effect can be lower national healthcare costs. I teach my rugrats to read labels to decide if something is bad for them.... yet people are 'outraged' about adults just having access to a label? Whining about anything...
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I don't see a problem with this. I kind of like seeing the calorie counts of things anyway. I think restaurants add too much salt. Its good to know in order to make a informed decision.
Otherwise where can i get the info from?
The internet. My Fitness Pal (great app). And many restaurants already provide various levels of nutritional information on their menus.
They should encourage restaurants to do this and maybe even offer a tax incentive, but not by force.
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The internet. My Fitness Pal (great app). And many restaurants already provide various levels of nutritional information on their menus.
They should encourage restaurants to do this and maybe even offer a tax incentive, but not by force.
I agree. They should also take the side effect warnings off of medications, too. Much easier to just look it up on WebMD (great website). ::)
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I agree. They should also take the side effect warnings off of medications, too. Much easier to just look it up on WebMD (great website). ::)
Yes. Comparing restaurant food with medications. Great comparison. ::)
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The internet. My Fitness Pal (great app). And many restaurants already provide various levels of nutritional information on their menus.
They should encourage restaurants to do this and maybe even offer a tax incentive, but not by force.
Haven't seen too many restaurants provide nutritional info on the internet. Even if they are, which i am sure there are some, i don't want to have to look it up and wonder if the info isn't garbage. Like i am going to go to Amechi's and order a pizza and then have to look up the salt content on the internet on my phone. fuck that, that's stupid.
Its better if they are mandated to and its verified like labels on food products at the grocery store.
I am totally for this.
I don't trust any business to do the "right" thing through encouragement of voluntary tax incentives. That's a pipe dream in most cases.
This another example of crabby angry conservatives stuck in the mud on stupid.
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Haven't seen too many restaurants provide nutritional info on the internet. Even if they are, which i am sure there are some, i don't want to have to look it up and wonder if the info isn't garbage.
Its better if they are mandated to and its verified like labels on food products at the grocery store.
I am totally for this.
I don't trust any business to do the "right" thing through encouragement of voluntary tax incentives. That's a pipe dream in most cases.
I've seen restaurants put varying levels of nutritional information both on their menus and online.
Have you ever heard of or used My Fitness Pal? You can find nutritional information, including sodium content, for pretty much everything. Takes seconds. I'm sure there are other apps out there can do the same thing. This isn't rocket science.
I'd rather put the burden on consumers to take responsibility for their own voluntary decisions to eat out, rather than imposing financial burdens on small businesses.
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I've seen restaurants put varying levels of nutritional information both on their menus and online.
Have you ever heard of or used My Fitness Pal? You can find nutritional information, including sodium content, for pretty much everything. Takes seconds. I'm sure there are other apps out there can do the same thing. This isn't rocket science.
I'd rather put the burden on consumers to take responsibility for their own voluntary decisions to eat out, rather than imposing financial burdens on small businesses.
BS. What financial burden? Reprint the menus. BFD, they do it all the time. I don't need to be inconvenienced to look up something on my iphone and waste data. Also, making it so people have to have a smart phone to find out the nutritional info isn't right. And who oversees myfitness pal to make sure the info is correct? F-that.
Get out of the way of progress, FFS.
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BS. What financial burden? Reprint the menus. BFD, they do it all the time. I don't need to be inconvenienced to look up something on my iphone and waste data. Also, making it so people have to have a smart phone to find out the nutritional info isn't right. And who oversees myfitness pal to make sure the info is correct? F-that.
Get out of the way of progress, FFS.
Yes, small businesses having to create new menus is a financial burden. A lot of smaller restaurants have trouble breaking even. It can be a difficult business.
Who cares about your convenience? So you're saying you need government intervention in a private business, when you engage in a purely voluntary activity, so you don't have to do the work yourself? How friggin lazy is that? Really?
I don't know who oversees My Fitness Pal or any other app. I doubt their reliability is any different than the information you're going to trust is accurate coming from the restaurant.
This isn't progress. It's catering to a bunch of lazy consumers who don't want to do their own homework. I log all of my food. It's really not hard at all.
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So only those willing to carry a smart phone and pay for bandwidth deserve that info, because there's an app for that?
Look, if you want to save the country money (as every conservative should), then you want better infrmed consumers who aren't eating 5 grams of sodium a day. Half the population diabetic by age 40 ain't so good for GDP or healthcare.
but if you have an app, well, hey...
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Yes, small businesses having to create new menus is a financial burden. A lot of smaller restaurants have trouble breaking even. It can be a difficult business.
Who cares about your convenience? So you're saying you need government intervention in a private business, when you engage in a purely voluntary activity, so you don't have to do the work yourself? How friggin lazy is that? Really?
I don't know who oversees My Fitness Pal or any other app. I doubt their reliability is any different than the information you're going to trust is accurate coming from the restaurant.
This isn't progress. It's catering to a bunch of lazy consumers who don't want to do their own homework. I log all of my food. It's really not hard at all.
They are gonna make new menus anyway. Adding salt amounts won't change the cost. So money isn't an issue here.
So what's left is accuracy and you just indicated you don't know if myfitness pal is accurate so that kind of kills that issue.
However, when McDonalds is required to put calorie counts on its menu that info IS checked by the government, prolly the FDA or a state equivalent. the restaurant doesn't just put what ever they want as you have suggested they would.
The curmudgeons of the world will just have to get over it like they did with calorie counts, traffic lights, trains and cell phones.
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They are gonna make new menus anyway. Adding salt amounts won't change the cost. So money isn't an issue here.
So what's left is accuracy and you just indicated you don't know if myfitness pal is accurate so that kind of kills that issue.
However, when McDonalds is required to put calorie counts on its menu that info IS checked by the government, prolly the FDA or a state equivalent. the restaurant doesn't just put what ever they want as you have suggested they would.
The curmudgeons of the world will just have to get over it like they did with calorie counts, traffic lights, trains and cell phones.
They are going to make new menus when necessary and when they can afford it, so yes money is an issue if government is requiring all businesses to comply within a certain deadline.
Accuracy isn't killed. I don't have any reason to doubt the accuracy of the app I use.
What's next? You want them to read the menu to you, and feed you too? Geeze Louise . . . .
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Yes. Comparing restaurant food with medications. Great comparison. ::)
Yeah, food doesn't effect your health. There's no value in knowing the salt, fat and sugar content of food because there are no medically known side effects linked to those things. ::)
The menu thing is complete BS. A small business can have an employee ink pen in the number, just like they all ink pen in new prices all the time. ::)
There is no one better at coming up with imaginary arguments for dumb ass positions than you.
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Yeah, food doesn't effect your health. There's no value in knowing the salt, fat and sugar content of food because there are no medically know side effects linked to those things. ::)
The menu thing is complete BS. A small business can have an employee ink pen in the number, just like they all ink pen in new prices all the time. ::)
There is no one better at coming up with imaginary arguments for dumb ass positions than you.
Yeah, it's impossible to learn what's in the food you eat without a restaurant telling you precisely what the nutritional values are. ::) And if you are concerned about medical side effects of basic nutritional ingredients, make your own friggin food. Or do your own homework.
Comparing this to medicine is a classic example if an imaginary stupid @@@ argument. Good job.
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Yes, small businesses having to create new menus is a financial burden. A lot of smaller restaurants have trouble breaking even. It can be a difficult business.
Who cares about your convenience? So you're saying you need government intervention in a private business, when you engage in a purely voluntary activity, so you don't have to do the work yourself? How friggin lazy is that? Really?
I don't know who oversees My Fitness Pal or any other app. I doubt their reliability is any different than the information you're going to trust is accurate coming from the restaurant.
This isn't progress. It's catering to a bunch of lazy consumers who don't want to do their own homework. I log all of my food. It's really not hard at all.
Actually it isn't. Food distributors, just like liquor distributors, often provide their clients with incentives to encourage future orders from them over their competitors. Gov't regulations forbid liquor and food distributors from giving away free consumable products. Distributors often find ways to get around it (in theory) by offering savings in other forms. Walk into a bar and 90% of the accessories there like menus, work shirts, bar mats, right down to the hand soap and toilet paper in the bathrooms are often supplied by liquor vendors as freebies. Same way with food establishments. Vendors often design and deliver printed menus from what the restaurant indicates should be on it. If there is any cost at all, it is for the front and back covers and/or slip casing that the menu goes in.
I think consumer awareness is a great thing. Especially when it holds crappy establishments to the health content of what they are serving.
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Actually it isn't. Food distributors, just like liquor distributors, often provide their clients with incentives to encourage future orders from them over their competitors. Gov't regulations forbid liquor and food distributors from giving away free consumable products. Distributors often find ways to get around it (in theory) by offering savings in other forms. Walk into a bar and 90% of the accessories there like menus, work shirts, bar mats, right down to the hand soap and toilet paper in the bathrooms are often supplied by liquor vendors as freebies. Same way with food establishments. Vendors often design and deliver printed menus from what the restaurant indicates should be on it. If there is any cost at all, it is for the front and back covers and/or slip casing that the menu goes in.
I think consumer awareness is a great thing. Especially when it holds crappy establishments to the health content of what they are serving.
I'm aware of what vendors do, although I think it's an overstatement to say this how all or even a majority of small restaurants obtain menus.
I agree consumer awareness is a great thing. I disagree that government, in this instance, should be forcing businesses to do this. It's not like we're talking about hidden ingredients, carcinogens, etc. And this is a purely voluntary activity of eating out. I really don't see a burden on consumers who should take responsibility for the things they choose to eat at restaurants.
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They are going to make new menus when necessary and when they can afford it, so yes money is an issue if government is requiring all businesses to comply within a certain deadline.
They do when necessary which is common...Not when they "can" afford it. If they are having problems affording $100-$400/per loication for new menus because they want to add new dishes or new veggies are in season they are fucked anyway and going out of business. Doesn't look like you know much about the restaurant business. But you seem to think you know enough to make an absurd argument about menu costs lol.
Accuracy isn't killed. I don't have any reason to doubt the accuracy of the app I use.
Yet you admit you don't know if it is accurate or if there is any oversight. How smart is that? I'd trust a food label over the "internet" wouldn't you? Or are you one of those people who believe everything on the internet is true? I don't doubt that myfitness app is accurate in most cases, but what's to prevent mistakes or collusion? ............nothing
What's next? You want them to read the menu to you, and feed you too? Geeze Louise . . . .
No, what i want them to do is list what's in their food. Specifically how much calories, sodium, sugar and fat if it exceeds normal levels for the dish or over certain amounts.
Do you have any arguments against it that don't involve a reduction to the ridiculous or a curmudgeon ideal?
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Yeah, it's impossible to learn what's in the food you eat without a restaurant telling you precisely what the nutritional values are. ::) And if you are concerned about medical side effects of basic nutritional ingredients, make your own friggin food. Or do your own homework.
Comparing this to medicine is a classic example if an imaginary stupid @@@ argument. Good job.
No, its not an imaginary stupid ass argument because requiring restaurants to reveal sodium content is in the interest of customers' health. It's an exact comparison.There is no way menu printing is going to be an issue for any restaurant. They change menus all the time.
You ALWAYS make imaginary, stupid ass arguments. Any time you discuss one of these social issues, you add in some imaginary backstory that has nothing to do with reality.
The simple fact is there is nothing unreasonable about requiring restaurants to include basic nutritional values.
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Reductio ad absurdum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: "argument to absurdity", pl.: argumenta ad absurdum), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.[1]
First recognized and studied in classical Greek philosophy (the Latin term derives from the Greek "εις άτοπον απαγωγή" or eis atopon apagoge, "reduction to the impossible", for example in Aristotle's Prior Analytics),[1] this technique has been used throughout history in both formal mathematical and philosophical reasoning, as well as informal debate.
The "absurd" conclusion of a reductio ad absurdum argument can take a range of forms:
The Earth cannot be flat, otherwise we would find people falling off the edge.
Society must have laws, otherwise there would be chaos.
There is no smallest positive rational number, because if there were, then it could be divided by two to get a smaller one.
The first example above argues that the denial of the assertion would have a ridiculous result; it would go against the evidence of our senses. The second argues that denial of the assertion would be untenable: unpleasant or unworkable for society. The third is a mathematical proof by contradiction, arguing that the denial of the premise would result in a logical contradiction (there is a "smallest" number and yet there is a number smaller than it).
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oz,
you've missed most of an absurd year here. the insults have stopped since you started posting, thanks for that.
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Nothing. I have a problem with forcing small businesses to incur the expense of doing this.
That's a valid point. Makes sense for McDonald's but tough for every mom and pop shop to work out.
I'd also worry about liability. Can you get sued if you're off by a few hundred mg and a client has a heart attack? In New York I'm thinking yes.
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That's a valid point.
No, it's not. Only chain restaurants with 15 or more locations have to post the warning.
And the warning only applies to foods with more than 2300 milligrams of sodium per serving.
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That pizza looks dam good.
Just saying
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No, it's not. Only chain restaurants with 15 or more locations have to post the warning.
And the warning only applies to foods with more than 2300 milligrams of sodium per serving.
Ah
The serving game is an easy one to play. Like Trans fats. Have to post unless it's less than a gram shop they go from a tbsp to 2 tsp as a serving. 0.49 grams Trans fat is 0 on the labels.
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No, it's not. Only chain restaurants with 15 or more locations have to post the warning.
And the warning only applies to foods with more than 2300 milligrams of sodium per serving.
both are COMPLETELY acceptable.
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oz,
you've missed most of an absurd year here. the insults have stopped since you started posting, thanks for that.
thanks, at least we are all debating more i think lol
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thanks, at least we are all debating more i think lol
I disagree. 8)
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I disagree. 8)
;D
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They do when necessary which is common...Not when they "can" afford it. If they are having problems affording $100-$400/per loication for new menus because they want to add new dishes or new veggies are in season they are fucked anyway and going out of business. Doesn't look like you know much about the restaurant business. But you seem to think you know enough to make an absurd argument about menu costs lol.
Yet you admit you don't know if it is accurate or if there is any oversight. How smart is that? I'd trust a food label over the "internet" wouldn't you? Or are you one of those people who believe everything on the internet is true? I don't doubt that myfitness app is accurate in most cases, but what's to prevent mistakes or collusion? ............nothing
No, what i want them to do is list what's in their food. Specifically how much calories, sodium, sugar and fat if it exceeds normal levels for the dish or over certain amounts.
Do you have any arguments against it that don't involve a reduction to the ridiculous or a curmudgeon ideal?
I know enough about small businesses, including restaurants, to know that government regulation hurts. I wouldn't dismiss the increased costs of doing business as cavalierly as you have.
I record every calorie, gram, milligram, protein, carbs, sodium, etc. of everything I eat, every day. I use My Fitness Pal every day. I know if I'm hitting or missing based on what the scale, bodyfat, clothes, and mirror tell me. I also have a salt tooth, so my diet is pretty high in sodium. Not a good thing. So, do I know for a fact the app I use is 100 percent accurate? No. Do I have a pretty good idea? Yes. Do I know more about it than someone who has never used it? Absolutely.
In addition, to the costs imposed on small businesses, I don't like the idea of excessive or unnecessary government regulation. It's hard enough for small businesses to compete without having to worry about big brother.
Also, what you've described is really a sense of entitlement and just pure laziness. You don't have a right to have a business spoon feed you information. We should let the marketplace take care of itself. A number of restaurants are already moving in this direction voluntarily. And if you don't like the fact a certain restaurant doesn't give you enough information, go eat someplace else or make your own food. That's how the free market is supposed to work.
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That's a valid point. Makes sense for McDonald's but tough for every mom and pop shop to work out.
I'd also worry about liability. Can you get sued if you're off by a few hundred mg and a client has a heart attack? In New York I'm thinking yes.
Good point. You know lawsuits are coming. Probably first by the businesses who will be affected, then later by some consumer if the law survives.
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In addition, to the costs imposed on small businesses, I don't like the idea of excessive or unnecessary government regulation. It's hard enough for small businesses to compete without having to worry about big brother.
Also, what you've described is really a sense of entitlement and just pure laziness. You don't have a right to have a business spoon feed you information. We should let the marketplace take care of itself. A number of restaurants are already moving in this direction voluntarily. And if you don't like the fact a certain restaurant doesn't give you enough information, go eat someplace else or make your own food. That's how the free market is supposed to work.
We know for a fact that 75% of the salt consumed by Americans is via processed food. We know for a fact that these corporate restaurants' foods are less "recipe" and more "formula" calculated to reach the salt/sugar/fat blisspoint. We know for a fact these companies use insidious advertising to hook children as young as 2. We know for a fact that these restaurants don't just put profits ahead of customers' health, but that their profits are almost directly tied to their customers' declining health. These regulations are the result of how big business has abused the free market, which has contributed to a real-world health crisis.
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I know enough about small businesses, including restaurants, to know that government regulation hurts. I wouldn't dismiss the increased costs of doing business as cavalierly as you have.
I don't think you know anything about the restaurant biz. We are talking about menus they would reprint inside a year anyway (wear and tear, lost, damaged, or new items) at a very small cost.
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I am willing to bet BB would be making the same dumb arguments supporting the Tobacco industry in the 50's when the government wanted to put a Surgeon Generals warning on the cigarette packs.
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I am willing to bet BB would be making the same dumb arguments supporting the Tobacco industry in the 50's when the government wanted to put a Surgeon Generals warning on the cigarette packs.
people could have just picked up their rotary phone (great pulse signaling technology) and asked the operator about the Marlboro ingredients.
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people could have just picked up their rotary phone (great pulse signaling technology) and asked the operator about the Marlboro ingredients.
"You're sure that the disgusting taste that makes me cough my guts out is good for me? "
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I'm aware of what vendors do, although I think it's an overstatement to say this how all or even a majority of small restaurants obtain menus.
I agree consumer awareness is a great thing. I disagree that government, in this instance, should be forcing businesses to do this. It's not like we're talking about hidden ingredients, carcinogens, etc. And this is a purely voluntary activity of eating out. I really don't see a burden on consumers who should take responsibility for the things they choose to eat at restaurants.
Actually it is not. If a restaurant (or bar) is not receiving menus, and other related items, from a vendor then they are either not doing enough business for vendors to give them a second thought or they are procuring their inventory from some other source which is highly questionable.
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We know for a fact that 75% of the salt consumed by Americans is via processed food. We know for a fact that these corporate restaurants' foods are less "recipe" and more "formula" calculated to reach the salt/sugar/fat blisspoint. We know for a fact these companies use insidious advertising to hook children as young as 2. We know for a fact that these restaurants don't just put profits ahead of customers' health, but that their profits are almost directly tied to their customers' declining health. These regulations are the result of how big business has abused the free market, which has contributed to a real-world health crisis.
We know for a fact that eating at a restaurant is purely voluntary and that every able bodied person can choose not to eat at a restaurant and prepare their own food.
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I don't think you know anything about the restaurant biz. We are talking about menus they would reprint inside a year anyway (wear and tear, lost, damaged, or new items) at a very small cost.
It sounds like you don't know anything about running a small business. You definitely don't know anything about fitness apps and how easy they are to use.
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It sounds like you don't know anything about running a small business. You definitely don't know anything about fitness apps and how easy they are to use.
this only applies to chains with 15+ locations? and it's only for 2000+ mg items?
Not a huge deal. 2000 mg in one item is pretty disgusting.
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I am willing to bet BB would be making the same dumb arguments supporting the Tobacco industry in the 50's when the government wanted to put a Surgeon Generals warning on the cigarette packs.
O Rly?
Good question. This might be the only product on the market that kills people, in a slow, painful, and expensive manner, when used as directed. In other words, unlike food or alcohol, you don't have to abuse the product for it to kill you. Our government gives tobacco companies a pass on this and even subsidizes the industry. Our courts don't hold them accountable. It is an evil industry IMO.
I could pull a number of quotes like this, but I know you don't let those pesky facts get in the way of an absurd assumption. :)
I bet you will be in the front of the line trying to lobby a legislature for a bill that forces waiters to actually feed you your food at a restaurant table. Heck, you probably want them to wipe your okole in the bathroom.
Is this you? "Wipers!" ;D
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I could pull a number of quotes like this, but I know you don't let those pesky facts get in the way of an absurd assumption. Smiley
Great job at completely missing the point. ::)
Smoking cigarettes is just as voluntary as eating at a restaurant.
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Great job at completely missing the point. ::)
Smoking cigarettes is just as voluntary as eating at a restaurant.
Comparing restaurant food to cigarettes and tobacco companies is ridiculous.
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Comparing restaurant food to cigarettes and tobacco companies is ridiculous.
No, it's completely apt. Fast food companies and cigarette companies use a lot of the same forms of insidious marketing. Big fast food is doing its best to be as physically addictive as tobacco, which is one of the reasons the sodium content is so high.
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No, it's completely apt. Fast food companies and cigarette companies use a lot of the same forms of insidious marketing. Big fast food is doing its best to be as physically addictive as tobacco, which is one of the reasons the sodium content is so high.
Dude this is absolutely absurd. Tobacco companies market poison. They have been peddling carcinogens for years. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin and cocaine. They must hook kids to stay in business. Comparing that to fast food is pretty dumb.
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Dude this is absolutely absurd. Tobacco companies market poison. They have been peddling carcinogens for years. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin and cocaine. They must hook kids to stay in business. Comparing that to fast food is pretty dumb.
Your point? With the exception of being more addictive than heroine or cocaine, everything in that post applies to fast food. And if the fast food industry could make it as addictive as heroine, they would.
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Your point? With the exception of being more addictive than heroine or cocaine, everything in that post applies to fast food. And if the fast food industry could make it as addictive as heroine, they would.
Really? Sodium is a carcinogen? A poison? You are seriously putting sodium on the same level as the carcinogens in cigarettes?
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Really? Sodium is a carcinogen? A poison? You are seriously putting sodium on the same level as the carcinogens in cigarettes?
I didn't say that sodium was a carcinogen. I said that everything in your post applied to fast food.
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I didn't say that sodium was a carcinogen. I said that everything in your post applied to fast food.
This whole thread is about sodium. And everything in my post included this: "Tobacco companies market poison. They have been peddling carcinogens for years."
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This whole thread is about sodium. And everything in my post included this: "Tobacco companies market poison. They have been peddling carcinogens for years."
No, the topic of this thread is how NY fast food chains now have to put a warning on foods with a high sodium content. Fast food chains don't sell salt, they sell food. The food contains so much salt AND fat AND sugar to make their poison as palatable and addictive as possible.
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I don't have this fitness app or whatever, who is to say it is accurate? Does it have a break down of the food content from each restaurant or just a break down of the food content by food items themselves?
Because I can tell you that the macros for 8oz of lobster from Red Lobster is going to be a hell of a lot different than they are from 8oz of lobster from Ruth Chris.
Unless this app breaks it down specifically by restaurants and the exact recipes that they use are taken into consideration, then it isn't very accurate.
But then, why would I want to use an app to look this up anyway? If I am paying my money to these places, the least they could do is provide me with as much info on their selections as possible.
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Nutritional content is liberal hogwash.
My machine gun cooked bacon sure doesn't come with one.
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It sounds like you don't know anything about running a small business. You definitely don't know anything about fitness apps and how easy they are to use.
As if fitness apps directly relate to running a small business? HAHAHAHAH what ever ::)
You don't know what you are talking about and your ignorance shows clearly.
You are simply parroting conservative talking points while blowing them out your ass.
While you may think you know something about small business, which i suspect isn't much, you have demonstrated that you nothing of the restaurant biz and also printing costs.
You would rather try and sound smart while you whine like the rest of the curmudgeons.
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You are simply parroting conservative talking points while blowing them out your ass.
Accurate.
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O Rly?
I could pull a number of quotes like this, but I know you don't let those pesky facts get in the way of an absurd assumption. :)
I bet you will be in the front of the line trying to lobby a legislature for a bill that forces waiters to actually feed you your food at a restaurant table. Heck, you probably want them to wipe your okole in the bathroom.
Is this you? "Wipers!" ;D
Well of course now you do since you were raised in the anti tobacco culture.
But i wasn't talking about NOW was I? I was talking about a hypotheitical of you in the 50's wasn't I?
Don't let that pesky fact spoil your bullshit.
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(https://static.dyp.im/HarZXdVuvi/b6033ae2f33d0efa0c595bdc7d6aca26.jpg)
Is this the "Myfitnesspal" you were talking about Beach?
If everyone will notice:
- the info was confirmed by two users
- it asked if the data is accurate
- Lastly conformed on 6/2014
Oh yeah, lots of confidence in this app HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAH
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No, the topic of this thread is how NY fast food chains now have to put a warning on foods with a high sodium content. Fast food chains don't sell salt, they sell food. The food contains so much salt AND fat AND sugar to make their poison as palatable and addictive as possible.
Wait. So the topic is about warning labels for sodium, but the thread is not about sodium?
In any event, you tied sodium (or "warning on foods with a high sodium content") to carcinogens.
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I don't have this fitness app or whatever, who is to say it is accurate? Does it have a break down of the food content from each restaurant or just a break down of the food content by food items themselves?
Because I can tell you that the macros for 8oz of lobster from Red Lobster is going to be a hell of a lot different than they are from 8oz of lobster from Ruth Chris.
Unless this app breaks it down specifically by restaurants and the exact recipes that they use are taken into consideration, then it isn't very accurate.
But then, why would I want to use an app to look this up anyway? If I am paying my money to these places, the least they could do is provide me with as much info on their selections as possible.
I explained why I don't have a problem with accuracy. It's based on my person experience with using the app for years now. My current streak is 101 consecutive days. It works.
You can find pretty much every food on the planet, including lobster. Can I guarantee that it is precise? Of course not. But it's close enough for someone to make an informed decision about nutritional values in whatever food they are eating.
I agree places should provide as much info as possible. The issue is whether government should force them to do so.
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As if fitness apps directly relate to running a small business? HAHAHAHAH what ever ::)
You don't know what you are talking about and your ignorance shows clearly.
You are simply parroting conservative talking points while blowing them out your ass.
While you may think you know something about small business, which i suspect isn't much, you have demonstrated that you nothing of the restaurant biz and also printing costs.
You would rather try and sound smart while you whine like the rest of the curmudgeons.
Fitness apps don't relate to small businesses, and that's not what I said.
Technically, I'm "parroting" a libertarian point. But it's my opinion. And you know I don't care whether you like it or not.
The only whining is your lazy butt who wants the government to force restaurants to do your homework for you.
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Well of course now you do since you were raised in the anti tobacco culture.
But i wasn't talking about NOW was I? I was talking about a hypotheitical of you in the 50's wasn't I?
Don't let that pesky fact spoil your bullshit.
Oh you were talking about the 1950s? Warning labels didn't start till 1968. :)
But don't let the facts get in the way of a stupid, completely non-fact-based hypothetical. This is funny. :)
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(https://static.dyp.im/HarZXdVuvi/b6033ae2f33d0efa0c595bdc7d6aca26.jpg)
Is this the "Myfitnesspal" you were talking about Beach?
If everyone will notice:
- the info was confirmed by two users
- it asked if the data is accurate
- Lastly conformed on 6/2014
Oh yeah, lots of confidence in this app HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAH
Oh look. A Google.com expert. LOL! Stop before you really embarrass yourself.
There are several ways info gets into the app. The most reliable is by scanning a bar code from the product. Another is info provided by the restaurant itself. Another is by finding other sources online that have already calculated various nutrients. A lot of the info is already in the app. Not hard to determine whether something is reliable at all.
But you wouldn't know that, because you don't know squat about the app. But keep with your completely uniformed opinion. lol
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so only big business is not allowed to withhold health related information ?
Who is "withholding" information? They are only "withholding" if they are obligated to provide it in the first place.
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Oh you were talking about the 1950s? Warning labels didn't start till 1968. :)
But don't let the facts get in the way of a stupid, completely non-fact-based hypothetical. This is funny. :)
So what? My point wan't about when they started. But that obviously went over your head.
Keep grasping at straws and trying to make it into some other argument lol
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Wait. So the topic is about warning labels for sodium, but the thread is not about sodium?
::) Obviously not. How else would you explain all of your posts about menu printing costs?
In any event, you tied sodium (or "warning on foods with a high sodium content") to carcinogens.
No, you attempted to do that. I specifically said fast food contains carcinogens, which is not up for debate.
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Fitness apps don't relate to small businesses, and that's not what I said.
That's exactly what you implied man up to it. And you still don't know squat about the restaurant biz
Technically, I'm "parroting" a libertarian point. But it's my opinion. And you know I don't care whether you like it or not.
You are being a whiny conservative.
The only whining is your lazy butt who wants the government to force restaurants to do your homework for you.
Wring again. just don't want the "internet" to be the definitive source like you do.
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Who is "withholding" information? They are only "withholding" if they are obligated to provide it in the first place.
This doesn't even make sense. If someone has information and they don't share it with you , they still withheld that information, even if they weren't obligated to share it with you.
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So what? My point wan't about when they started. But that obviously went over your head.
Keep grasping at straws and trying to make it into some other argument lol
So what you were off by 16 years? That you had to pull a stupid hypothetical out of your rear end? That I completely blew up your hypothetical?
A typical pattern. You get bored, start making up scenarios, argue them to death, get proved wrong. Keep up the good work. :)
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Oh look. A Google.com expert. LOL! Stop before you really embarrass yourself.
There are several ways info gets into the app. The most reliable is by scanning a bar code from the product. Another is info provided by the restaurant itself. Another is by finding other sources online that have already calculated various nutrients. A lot of the info is already in the app. Not hard to determine whether something is reliable at all.
But you wouldn't know that, because you don't know squat about the app. But keep with your completely uniformed opinion. lol
Wow they bar codes on menus now? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
oh wait did you conveniently forget we are talking food from a restaurant??? HAHAHAHAHAAAH
Oh nutritional info provided by the restaurant without verification, something we can all trust. ::) Bigmacs=health food
But you would rather trust these 2 users? HAHAHAHAH
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That's exactly what you implied man up to it. And you still don't know squat about the restaurant biz
You are being a whiny conservative.
Wring again. just don't want the "internet" to be the definitive source like you do.
Here is my quote:
It sounds like you don't know anything about running a small business. You definitely don't know anything about fitness apps and how easy they are to use.
Let me break it down for you, since you want to act like a simpleton:
1. You don't know anything about running a small business. Note the period at the end of the sentence. All inclusive.
2. Next sentence: you definitely don't know anything about fitness apps. Has nothing to do with running a small business. No implication. Completely different point.
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So what you were off by 16 years? That you had to pull a stupid hypothetical out of your rear end? That I completely blew up your hypothetical?
A typical pattern. You get bored, start making up scenarios, argue them to death, get proved wrong. Keep up the good work. :)
You didn't blow up my hypothetical, you confirmed it by having to deflect its intention.
So i got the years wrong OMG shot me lol
But the FACT remains, You would have bitch and moaned about the government make the tobacco industry do something like print warning labels.
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Wow they bar codes on menus now? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
oh wait did you conveniently forget we are talking food from a restaurant??? HAHAHAHAHAAAH
Oh nutritional info provided by the restaurant without verification, something we can all trust. ::) Bigmacs=health food
But you would rather trust these 2 users? HAHAHAHAH
No, I don't recall seeing bar codes on menus and that's not what I said. Or implied. If you actually read what I said, I was talking about various ways info gets into the app.
You really sound like a fool.
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You didn't blow up my hypothetical, you confirmed it by having to deflect its intention.
So i got the years wrong OMG shot me lol
But the FACT remains, You would have bitch and moaned about the government make the tobacco industry do something like print warning labels.
I blew up your hypothetical by showing my own words from 8 years ago, which directly contradict your point. You responded by saying you were talking about the 1950s, before I was born. LOL!! What the heck? Stop it already. LOL!
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Here is my quote:
Let me break it down for you, since you want to act like a simpleton:
1. You don't know anything about running a small business. Note the period at the end of the sentence. All inclusive.
2. Next sentence: you definitely don't know anything about fitness apps. Has nothing to do with running a small business. No implication. Completely different point.
You should have put the sentences on separate lines then.
You are still left with the fact you don't jack shit about the restaurant biz and prolly don't know much about small business.
But you do know how to use google to find out when labels were put on cigs and you do know who to use you my fitness app. but what you really know how to do is bitch like a true conservative and deflect.
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No, I don't recall seeing bar codes on menus and that's not what I said. Or implied. If you actually read what I said, I was talking about various ways info gets into the app.
You really sound like a fool.
You brought up BAR CODES i didn't. We weren't talking food products at stores. we were talking about food on menus have you been smoking pot or something? you brought that up trying to defend your bull shit app.
squirm squrim squirm
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I explained why I don't have a problem with accuracy. It's based on my person experience with using the app for years now. My current streak is 101 consecutive days. It works.
You can find pretty much every food on the planet, including lobster. Can I guarantee that it is precise? Of course not. But it's close enough for someone to make an informed decision about nutritional values in whatever food they are eating.
I agree places should provide as much info as possible. The issue is whether government should force them to do so.
If you don't have a problem with accuracy, then what is the point of the whole damn thing? Why even bother with a fitness app if it is not accurate?
I didn't ask if you could find every food on the planet like lobster. I gave two examples of one specific food that could be way off depending on the recipe followed by the restaurant.
Which is more accurate, a fitness app or the info supplied by the restaurant itself? I think we know the answer to that one.
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If you don't have a problem with accuracy, then what is the point of the whole damn thing? Why even bother with a fitness app if it is not accurate?
I didn't ask if you could find every food on the planet like lobster. I gave two examples of one specific food that could be way off depending on the recipe followed by the restaurant.
Which is more accurate, a fitness app or the info supplied by the restaurant itself? I think we know the answer to that one.
That's becuase he's a whiny curmugeon
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I blew up your hypothetical by showing my own words from 8 years ago, which directly contradict your point. You responded by saying you were talking about the 1950s, before I was born. LOL!! What the heck? Stop it already. LOL!
Do you even know what a hypothetical means? If you did then you'd know that what you said 8 years ago doesn't mean much. Unless you said it in the 60's when the labels were put on.
Geez you are thick. Seriously you been smoking Maui Wowui?
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I blew up your hypothetical by showing my own words from 8 years ago, which directly contradict your point. You responded by saying you were talking about the 1950s, before I was born. LOL!! What the heck? Stop it already. LOL!
That didn't blow up the hypothetical. The point clearly wasn't whether or not you are pro-tobacco, but to illustrate your wrongheaded thought-process in another context. Whether or not you are pro-tobacco was beside the point.
And it was obvious to literally everyone. This is just your patented red herring tactic to deviate from your original asinine point. You did it with me regarding carcinogens and salt, and you quoted the post of me saying literally the opposite of what you claimed.
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You brought up BAR CODES i didn't. We weren't talking food products at stores. we were talking about food on menus have you been smoking pot or something? you brought that up trying to defend your bull shit app.
squirm squrim squirm
Focus. My comments about bar codes were about how information gets into a fitness app: "There are several ways info gets into the app. The most reliable is by scanning a bar code from the product. Another is info provided by the restaurant itself. Another is by finding other sources online that have already calculated various nutrients. A lot of the info is already in the app. Not hard to determine whether something is reliable at all."
This is relevant to my point about how various people can obtain nutritional information. I wasn't talking about bar codes being a menu. If you could focus, you'd see that.
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If you don't have a problem with accuracy, then what is the point of the whole damn thing? Why even bother with a fitness app if it is not accurate?
I didn't ask if you could find every food on the planet like lobster. I gave two examples of one specific food that could be way off depending on the recipe followed by the restaurant.
Which is more accurate, a fitness app or the info supplied by the restaurant itself? I think we know the answer to that one.
This is nonsensical. If I HAD a problem with accuracy, then it wouldn't make sense to use the app. I DON'T have a problem with accuracy, meaning the app is accurate enough for me, based on my personal use of it for years.
I don't know if the app is more reliable than the restaurant itself, but I use the app to record food I order at restaurants all the time.
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Do you even know what a hypothetical means? If you did then you'd know that what you said 8 years ago doesn't mean much. Unless you said it in the 60's when the labels were put on.
Geez you are thick. Seriously you been smoking Maui Wowui?
I know what a dumb hypothetical is, which is exactly what you posted. :)
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That didn't blow up the hypothetical. The point clearly wasn't whether or not you are pro-tobacco, but to illustrate your wrongheaded thought-process in another context. Whether or not you are pro-tobacco was beside the point.
And it was obvious to literally everyone. This is just your patented red herring tactic to deviate from your original asinine point. You did it with me regarding carcinogens and salt, and you quoted the post of me saying literally the opposite of what you claimed.
Yes, it did. He claimed I would have opposed warning labels on cigarettes in the 1950s. I have posted numerous times on the board, for years, about my hatred for the tobacco industry. So his hypothetical was not only dumb and completely irrelevant, but wildly inaccurate.
You are the one who compared food to medicine and sodium/fast food to carcinogens. That sort of speaks for itself.
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Yes, it did. He claimed I would have opposed warning labels on cigarettes in the 1950s. I have posted numerous times on the board, for years, about my hatred for the tobacco industry. So his hypothetical was not only dumb and completely irrelevant, but wildly inaccurate.
None of those posts occurred in the 50s or 60s. He specifically said 50s and 60s instead of just asking you if you were opposed to the tobacco industry or warning labels NOW. You know exactly why that is. ;)
You are the one who compared food to medicine and sodium/fast food to carcinogens. That sort of speaks for itself.
No, I compared fast food to cigarettes and said fast food has carcinogens in it. You've said this more than once (and I've corrected you before), so please quote the post where I compare sodium to carcinogens.
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This is nonsensical. If I HAD a problem with accuracy, then it wouldn't make sense to use the app. I DON'T have a problem with accuracy, meaning the app is accurate enough for me, based on my personal use of it for years.
I don't know if the app is more reliable than the restaurant itself, but I use the app to record food I order at restaurants all the time.
Well that is pretty stupid. You take time to record food you order at restaurants but really don't care if the app is accurate. ::)
Why bother wasting your time in the first place then? Perfect example of Republican logic on display here.
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That didn't blow up the hypothetical. The point clearly wasn't whether or not you are pro-tobacco, but to illustrate your wrongheaded thought-process in another context. Whether or not you are pro-tobacco was beside the point.
And it was obvious to literally everyone. This is just your patented red herring tactic to deviate from your original asinine point. You did it with me regarding carcinogens and salt, and you quoted the post of me saying literally the opposite of what you claimed.
Facts are the enemies of delusions and deflections.
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Focus. My comments about bar codes were about how information gets into a fitness app: "There are several ways info gets into the app. The most reliable is by scanning a bar code from the product. Another is info provided by the restaurant itself. Another is by finding other sources online that have already calculated various nutrients. A lot of the info is already in the app. Not hard to determine whether something is reliable at all."
This is relevant to my point about how various people can obtain nutritional information. I wasn't talking about bar codes being a menu. If you could focus, you'd see that.
You are just doing your bull shit distraction game some more. 2 users provided info for Chick Fila sandwiches. YOUR COMMENT ABOUT BAR CODES MEAN NOTHING IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS DISCUSSION.
Desperate and pathetic.
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I know what a dumb hypothetical is, which is exactly what you posted. :)
You either too high, too stupid or playing your deflection games.
Everyone understands what i was saying except you of course becuase you are too cowardly to deal with it, so play the red herring.
so again:
WHAT YOU SAID 8 YEARS AGO DOESN'T MEAN JACK SHIT in the context of the hypothetical.
Bitch and moan about it all you want, I don't care. You look like a dumbass that's running like a bitch.
Desperate and pathetic. lol
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Well that is pretty stupid. You take time to record food you order at restaurants but really don't care if the app is accurate. ::)
Why bother wasting your time in the first place then? Perfect example of Republican logic on display here.
He's not using republican logic. He's just playing his bull shit games because he's been made to look like a fool whining about restaurants not being able to afford new menus they would reprint 1-4 times per year regardless at a minimal cost. And then all the while pretending he knows anything about the restaurant biz or small biz.
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Nothing. I have a problem with forcing small businesses to incur the expense of doing this.
You don't read so well.
The rule is also limited in another way: It'll only apply to bigger chain restaurants, which the health department estimates captures about 10 percent of the restaurant foods people eat. So New Yorkers may now get a quick sense of whether their Panera sandwich is too salty, but they won't know if there's a load of salt in the meals they buy at their local sushi bar every week.
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He's not using republican logic. He's just playing his bull shit games because he's been made to look like a fool whining about restaurants not being able to afford new menus they would reprint 1-4 times per year regardless at a minimal cost. And then all the while pretending he knows anything about the restaurant biz or small biz.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You don't read so well.
The rule is also limited in another way: It'll only apply to bigger chain restaurants, which the health department estimates captures about 10 percent of the restaurant foods people eat. So New Yorkers may now get a quick sense of whether their Panera sandwich is too salty, but they won't know if there's a load of salt in the meals they buy at their local sushi bar every week.
You mean those restaurants that don't pay for their menu creation and printing costs anyway? HAHAHAHAHA
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None of those posts occurred in the 50s or 60s. He specifically said 50s and 60s instead of just asking you if you were opposed to the tobacco industry or warning labels NOW. You know exactly why that is. ;)
No, I compared fast food to cigarettes and said fast food has carcinogens in it. You've said this more than once (and I've corrected you before), so please quote the post where I compare sodium to carcinogens.
It's a stupid friggin hypothetical. How about this: in 1920, Ozmo would have made his woman wipe his butt because he's too lazy to do it himself. Equally as asinine as Ozmo's asinine hypothetical.
Your quote is right here:
Dude this is absolutely absurd. Tobacco companies market poison. They have been peddling carcinogens for years. Nicotine is more addictive than heroin and cocaine. They must hook kids to stay in business. Comparing that to fast food is pretty dumb.
Your point? With the exception of being more addictive than heroine or cocaine, everything in that post applies to fast food. And if the fast food industry could make it as addictive as heroine, they would.
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Well that is pretty stupid. You take time to record food you order at restaurants but really don't care if the app is accurate. ::)
Why bother wasting your time in the first place then? Perfect example of Republican logic on display here.
Oh brother. ::) It is accurate enough for me, as I've already explained. Perfect example of someone who isn't used to thinking for himself. Whatever critical thinking skills you have deteriorate when you let other people think for you.
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You are just doing your bull shit distraction game some more. 2 users provided info for Chick Fila sandwiches. YOUR COMMENT ABOUT BAR CODES MEAN NOTHING IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS DISCUSSION.
Desperate and pathetic.
I already explained it. I doubt you even read it.
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You either too high, too stupid or playing your deflection games.
Everyone understands what i was saying except you of course becuase you are too cowardly to deal with it, so play the red herring.
so again:
WHAT YOU SAID 8 YEARS AGO DOESN'T MEAN JACK SHIT in the context of the hypothetical.
Bitch and moan about it all you want, I don't care. You look like a dumbass that's running like a bitch.
Desperate and pathetic. lol
If you lived in 1920, you would have made your woman wipe your butt, because you're too lazy to do it yourself.
About as accurate, relevant, and useful as your stupid hypothetical. :)
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You don't read so well.
The rule is also limited in another way: It'll only apply to bigger chain restaurants, which the health department estimates captures about 10 percent of the restaurant foods people eat. So New Yorkers may now get a quick sense of whether their Panera sandwich is too salty, but they won't know if there's a load of salt in the meals they buy at their local sushi bar every week.
Good point. Although I don't believe it will end there.
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I already explained it. I doubt you even read it.
You didn't explain anything. You just tried to justify your red herring, defection, dodge or what ever. Man up or shut up.
Or maybe you can find another explanation on Myfittnesspal verified by 3 users! Not that you care if its accurate! lol
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If you lived in 1920, you would have made your woman wipe your butt, because you're too lazy to do it yourself.
About as accurate, relevant, and useful as your stupid hypothetical. :)
Not even close. But keep trying. Maybe smoke some more pot.
squirm squirm squirm :D HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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You didn't explain anything. You just tried to justify your red herring, defection, dodge or what ever. Man up or shut up.
Or maybe you can find another explanation on Myfittnesspal verified by 3 users! Not that you care if its accurate! lol
You brought up the red herring of what I would have done in 1950. lol
What the heck are you talking about?? You don't know anything about the app. That much is clear. I'm not sure what the heck you pulled off the internet. I explained (a) how information gets into the app and (b) why I think the app is accurate.
You can't speak intelligently about it, because you've never used it and don't know anything about it. But I know that won't stop you from offering uninformed opinions. You're pretty good at that.
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Not even close. But keep trying. Maybe smoke some more pot.
squirm squirm squirm :D HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Wipers!" :)
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You brought up the red herring of what I would have done in 1950. lol
incorrect. red herring in a red herring. another sad try.
What the heck are you talking about??
read up.
You don't know anything about the app. That much is clear. I'm not sure what the heck you pulled off the internet. I explained (a) how information gets into the app and (b) why I think the app is accurate.
I got everything i needed to know in the context of our discussion.
You can't speak intelligently about it, because you've never used it and don't know anything about it. But I know that won't stop you from offering uninformed opinions. You're pretty good at that.
more red herring bull shit from you.
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"Wipers!" :)
I'm devastated. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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incorrect. red herring in a red herring. another sad try.
read up.
I got everything i needed to know in the context of our discussion.
more red herring bull shit from you.
Are you even capable of having a discussion with someone you don't agree with out resorting to bull shit?
Guess not.
Are you able to have a rational discussion without all the invective? I'm sensing a little hostility here. :)
I provided an alternative, based on my own experience, for how people can get nutritional information for restaurant food, short of government mandates. I do it every time I eat out. In fact, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't even use a restaurant's guide in lieu of my app. Unless the menu had a bar code. :)
In response, you questioned the reliability of the app, name-called, created a stupid hypothetical, all caps, bold, etc. A real meltdown. And all this after knowing nothing about the app.
Yes, you must be bored.
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It's a stupid friggin hypothetical. How about this: in 1920, Ozmo would have made his woman wipe his butt because he's too lazy to do it himself. Equally as asinine as Ozmo's asinine hypothetical.
In the quote you posted *FROM YOURSELF* from 8 years ago, you compare smoking regulation to food and alcohol regulation, so clearly you understand that they are comparable. How is having your wife wipe your butt comparable to food regulation? ::)
Your quote is right here:
Me:Your point? With the exception of being more addictive than heroine or cocaine, everything in that post applies to fast food. And if the fast food industry could make it as addictive as heroine, they would.
Nowhere in this post do I say salt is a carcinogen.
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In the quote you posted *FROM YOURSELF* from 8 years ago, you compare smoking regulation to food and alcohol regulation, so clearly you understand that they are comparable. How is having your wife wipe your butt comparable to food regulation? ::)
Me:Your point? With the exception of being more addictive than heroine or cocaine, everything in that post applies to fast food. And if the fast food industry could make it as addictive as heroine, they would.
Nowhere in this post do I say salt is a carcinogen.
I'm not talking about that stupid hypothetical anymore.
If "everything in that post applies to fast food," and "that post" included me saying tobacco companies "been peddling carcinogens for years," then yes you were saying fast companies have been peddling carcinogens for years.
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I'm not talking about that stupid hypothetical anymore.
For your sake, good. Your posts were getting weirder and weirder (which is saying something.)
If "everything in that post applies to fast food," and "that post" included me saying tobacco companies "been peddling carcinogens for years," then yes you were saying fast companies have been peddling carcinogens for years.
Yes, fast food companies peddle carcinogens. You claimed that I said salt is a carcinogen. I never said that SALT is a carcinogen. SALT is one of the unhealthy ingredients loaded into fast food. Fast food is loaded with lots of unhealthy ingredients at dangerous quantities. It isn't a difficult distinction, so why were you having so much trouble with it?
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For your sake, good. The posts were getting dumber and dumber.
Yes, fast food companies peddle carcinogens. You claimed that I said salt is a carcinogen. I never said that SALT is a carcinogen. SALT is one of the unhealthy ingredients loaded into fast food. Fast food is loaded with lots of unhealthy ingredients at dangerous quantities. It isn't a difficult distinction, so why were you having so much trouble with it?
Ok. That clarifies your comments. What carcinogens do fast food companies peddle?
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Ok. That clarifies your comments. What carcinogens do fast food companies peddle?
The comments were clear from the beginning.
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Are you able to have a rational discussion without all the invective? I'm sensing a little hostility here. :)
I provided an alternative, based on my own experience, for how people can get nutritional information for restaurant food, short of government mandates. I do it every time I eat out. In fact, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't even use a restaurant's guide in lieu of my app. Unless the menu had a bar code. :)
In response, you questioned the reliability of the app, name-called, created a stupid hypothetical, all caps, bold, etc. A real meltdown. And all this after knowing nothing about the app.
Yes, you must be bored.
1. Your alternative is subpar and inefficient, you admitted that enough your self.
2. Your counter regarding new menus is well exposed as lacking knowledge of printing costs and the restaurant biz.
3. Therefore, minimal costs and customers benefit.
Your resolve regarding your dislike of government requiring business to do things in the face of #1 and #2 resulted in my observation which included the warning labels on cigs hypothetical.
Then you attempted to bog the discussion down in red herring/dodge/deflection bull shit at every level.
I type in all caps for effect, just as i do with underlines, bold, text size and italics. It's been my pattern since i have been here.
You also know i delight in calling BS with i see it.... and you have once again delighted me greatly. Thanks :)
PS: I have had the app on my phone for quite some time. I used it for a little bit a couple of years ago and forgot that i had it until you brought it up. 2500+ milligrams of sodium in a serving or a dish is obscene. I have no problem with the federal government requiring restaurants chains to put this on their menus. There are many other things the government needs to get the hell out of I am sure. but this isn't one of them.
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1. Your alternative is subpar and inefficient, you admitted that enough your self.
2. Your counter regarding new menus is well exposed as lacking knowledge of printing costs and the restaurant biz.
3. Therefore, minimal costs and customers benefit.
Your resolve regarding your dislike of government requiring business to do things in the face of #1 and #2 resulted in my observation which included the warning labels on cigs hypothetical.
Then you attempted to bog the discussion down in red herring/dodge/deflection bull shit at every level.
I type in all caps for effect, just as i do with underlines, bold, text size and italics. It's been my pattern since i have been here.
You also know i delight in calling BS with i see it.... and you have once again delighted me greatly. Thanks :)
PS: I have had the app on my phone for quite some time. I used it for a little bit a couple of years ago and forgot that i had it until you brought it up. 2500+ milligrams of sodium in a serving or a dish is obscene. I have no problem with the federal government requiring restaurants chains to put this on their menus. There are many other things the government needs to get the hell out of I am sure. but this isn't one of them.
1. No, I did not admit my alternative is subpar and inefficient. I said the exact opposite. Stop making stuff up.
2. My counter regarding new menus is valid, but only applies to small business, which apparently will not be affected by this. Yet.
3. There are rarely "minimal costs" when it comes to government regulation. A company with multiple locations will not necessarily incur "minimal costs."
4. Some people are too lazy to do their own homework. It's sad you are one of those folks.
If you have the app and have used it, then you know how easy it is to use, which frankly makes your spazzing out pretty dishonest.
2500 mgs of sodium in one dish is high, but not unusual. I had 1400 mgs in my lunch alone. Anyone who wants to know the nutritional content of their food can find it. Unless you are too friggin lazy to do it yourself.
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The comments were clear from the beginning.
No they were not. What carcinogens are fast food companies peddling?
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1. No, I did not admit my alternative is subpar and inefficient. I said the exact opposite. Stop making stuff up.
2. My counter regarding new menus is valid, but only applies to small business, which apparently will not be affected by this. Yet.
3. There are rarely "minimal costs" when it comes to government regulation. A company with multiple locations will not necessarily incur "minimal costs."
4. Some people are too lazy to do their own homework. It's sad you are one of those folks.
If you have the app and have used it, then you know how easy it is to use, which frankly makes your spazzing out pretty dishonest.
2500 mgs of sodium in one dish is high, but not unusual. I had 1400 mgs in my lunch alone. Anyone who wants to know the nutritional content of their food can find it. Unless you are too friggin lazy to do it yourself.
1. You said you knew may not be always accurate. I also showed why it may be even less accurate. If its an app that's based on "what's in your food" its needs to be accurate or its SUBPAR.
2-3. Your counter is NOT valid at all. Restaurants often change their menus 1-4 times per year. Some are for seasonal reasons, some are because of new dishes added, some are for dishes taken off menus, some are for wear and tear, lost or stolen, or prince changes. They are going to reprint menus anyway. THAT'S THE POINT.
4. I don't eat at chains very often. And when i do, i write it off as a bad for meal that sometimes tastes good. I cook most of the food in my house and get it from many different locations. Veggies: Farmer's Market/produce market (usually choose organic vendors) Meats: Organic butcher about an hour from where i live or at the farmer's market or Trader joes or in a pinch Nugget Market because as they operate it like a butcher and will custom cut meats for me. Call me lazy if you want. ::)
5. I know how easy it is to use. But its not accurate and not everyone in the world has a smart phone.
6. The same could be said about food labels but i would rather have the government mandate it like they do now for a number of reasons including instead of using a 3rd party app and wonder if its accurate.
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1. You said you knew may not be always accurate. I also showed why it may be even less accurate. If its an app that's based on "what's in your food" its needs to be accurate or its SUBPAR.
2-3. Your counter is NOT valid at all. Restaurants often change their menus 1-4 times per year. Some are for seasonal reasons, some are because of new dishes added, some are for dishes taken off menus, some are for wear and tear, lost or stolen, or prince changes. They are going to reprint menus anyway. THAT'S THE POINT.
4. I don't eat at chains very often. And when i do, i write it off as a bad for meal that sometimes tastes good. I cook most of the food in my house and get it from many different locations. Veggies: Farmer's Market/produce market (usually choose organic vendors) Meats: Organic butcher about an hour from where i live or at the farmer's market or Trader joes or in a pinch Nugget Market because as they operate it like a butcher and will custom cut meats for me. Call me lazy if you want. ::)
5. I know how easy it is to use. But its not accurate and not everyone in the world has a smart phone.
6. The same could be said about food labels but i would rather have the government mandate it like they do now for a number of reasons including instead of using a 3rd party app and wonder if its accurate.
1. I said I've been using it for years and see the results of its accuracy for years. The only thing I acknowledged is there is no way to know if it's 100 percent accurate. Just like you cannot say a restaurant's own numbers are 100 percent accurate. And the app isn't "subpar" if it isn't 100 percent accurate. But to say I admit the app I use is not accurate is flat out dishonest.
2-3. I've eaten at enough restaurants, and worked with enough of them, to know they do not always change their menus 1-4 times a year. That's a gross overstatement. Applies to some, but definitely not all. And we know at least some will have to incur the expense of complying with government regulation. That's the point. And notice how I made it without acting like a drama queen.
4. If you think the government should force restaurants to provide you nutritional information because you don't want to do look it up yourself, then I am absolutely calling you lazy.
5. On what basis do you say the app is not accurate?
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No they were not.
Yes, they were. Especially considering I had clarified the comments in an earlier post and you weren't able to produce a quote where I said what you claimed I said.
What carcinogens are fast food companies peddling?
Really? A guy who spent the last 5 pages arguing that government regulated warnings are for lazy customers and it's just as easy to use a smart phone app can't plug "fast food" and "carcinogens" into google?
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Yes, they were. Especially considering I had clarified the comments in an earlier post and you weren't able to produce a quote where I said what you claimed I said.
Really? A guy who spent the last 5 pages arguing that government regulated warnings are for lazy customers and it's just as easy to use a smart phone app can't plug "fast food" and "carcinogens" into google?
No, they were not. Particularly when I showed you how you linked your comments to carcinogens.
So you just pulled that comment out of your rear end and don't know what carcinogens you were talking about? Not surprised.
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Oh brother. ::) It is accurate enough for me, as I've already explained. Perfect example of someone who isn't used to thinking for himself. Whatever critical thinking skills you have deteriorate when you let other people think for you.
So you spend time recording misinformation and feel it is accurate enough for you, but having accurate information at a simple glance of a menu by consumers at a specific restaurant is something completely different. ::)
Dude, you got your ass handed to you all over this thread. Might as well quieten down and let the thread fall off the first page. Even your typical word games and deflection/distraction attempts are pathetic on this.
Anyone making a conscious effort to record misinformation and actually be satisfied with it shouldn't be talking about critical thinking skills. As they obviously have none.
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So you spend time recording misinformation and feel it is accurate enough for you, but having accurate information at a simple glance of a menu by consumers at a specific restaurant is something completely different. ::)
Dude, you got your ass handed to you all over this thread. Might as well quieten down and let the thread fall off the first page. Even your typical word games and deflection/distraction attempts are pathetic on this.
Anyone making a conscious effort to record misinformation and actually be satisfied with it shouldn't be talking about critical thinking skills. As they obviously have none.
Pipe down. Critical thinking is not your cup of soup, so to speak.
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1. I said I've been using it for years and see the results of its accuracy for years. The only thing I acknowledged is there is no way to know if it's 100 percent accurate. Just like you cannot say a restaurant's own numbers are 100 percent accurate. And the app isn't "subpar" if it isn't 100 percent accurate. But to say I admit the app I use is not accurate is flat out dishonest.
Really. You have seen the results of its accuracy for years? How so? Did you chemically analyze your loco moco from Zippys?
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Pipe down. Critical thinking is not your cup of soup, so to speak.
Thinking in general obviously isn't yours.
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Really. You have seen the results of its accuracy for years? How so? Did you chemically analyze your food?
You are asking someone that claims the 2008 and 2012 POTUS election was so close it was basically a toss up. Accuracy isn't something he is familiar with.
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Really. You have seen the results of its accuracy for years? How so? Did you chemically analyze your loco moco from Zippys?
I record every calorie, gram, milligram, protein, carbs, sodium, etc. of everything I eat, every day. I use My Fitness Pal every day. I know if I'm hitting or missing based on what the scale, bodyfat, clothes, and mirror tell me. I also have a salt tooth, so my diet is pretty high in sodium. Not a good thing. So, do I know for a fact the app I use is 100 percent accurate? No. Do I have a pretty good idea? Yes. Do I know more about it than someone who has never used it? Absolutely.
On what basis do you say the app is not accurate?
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On what basis do you say the app is not accurate?
You said so yourself.
So, do I know for a fact the app I use is 100 percent accurate? No.
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No, they were not. Particularly when I showed you how you linked your comments to carcinogens.
How I linked my comments to carcinogens? You said I claimed that salt was a carcinogen and the posts you quoted showed that wasn't true.
So you just pulled that comment out of your rear end and don't know what carcinogens you were talking about? Not surprised.
Quoting you from page 1:
do your own homework.
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You said so yourself.
Didn't I just tell you that critical thinking is not your thing?
There is no guarantee that any method is 100 percent accurate. It takes a real cognitive deficit to conclude the preceding statement means any method is not accurate at all.
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How I linked my comments to carcinogens? You said I claimed that salt was a carcinogen and the posts you quoted showed that wasn't true.
Quoting you from page 1:
Oh you got me. ::)
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Really. You have seen the results of its accuracy for years? How so? Did you chemically analyze your loco moco from Zippys?
Bump
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Bump
I record every calorie, gram, milligram, protein, carbs, sodium, etc. of everything I eat, every day. I use My Fitness Pal every day. I know if I'm hitting or missing based on what the scale, bodyfat, clothes, and mirror tell me. I also have a salt tooth, so my diet is pretty high in sodium. Not a good thing. So, do I know for a fact the app I use is 100 percent accurate? No. Do I have a pretty good idea? Yes. Do I know more about it than someone who has never used it? Absolutely.
On what basis do you say the app is not accurate?
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BB now has the ability to see the results of its (myfitnesspal's) accuracy for years!
Yet he doesn't for sure if its accurate.
:D
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BB now has the ability to see the results of its (myfitnesspal's) accuracy for years!
Yet he doesn't for sure if its accurate.
:D
*face palm*
Ozmo claims the app is inaccurate, but cannot say how. :)
And if you're being honest, you'd add "100 percent." But only if you're being honest.
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Oh you got me. ::)
Without even trying.
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Didn't I just tell you that critical thinking is not your thing?
There is no guarantee that any method is 100 percent accurate. It takes a real cognitive deficit to conclude the preceding statement means any method is not accurate at all.
Didn't I tell you thinking in general is not your thing?
6 pages of this thread is evidence of it. But carry on, I say this little rabbit hole of yours can reach 9 pages by Saturday.
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Good point. Although I don't believe it will end there.
It may, but we truly have no basis for knowing this.
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It may, but we truly have no basis for knowing this.
No basis? You don't believe government regulation creeps? You've never seen that happen?
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*face palm*
Ozmo claims the app is inaccurate, but cannot say how. :)
And if you're being honest, you'd add "100 percent." But only if you're being honest.
:D
Running low on red herring?
Scan pickled herring with your app for years and you will know its accurate then you can say you don't know for sure it is. Then face palm again.
Or if you weren't so dam LAZY, you can do the chemical analysis yourself tonite.
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:D
Running low on red herring?
Scan pickled herring with your app for years and you will know its accurate then you can say you don't know for sure it is. Then face palm again.
Or if you weren't so dam LAZY, you can do the chemical analysis yourself tonite.
Nah. I'm going to try and help you find a wiper. :)
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No basis? You don't believe government regulation creeps? You've never seen that happen?
Not saying that, but don't people vote in for their government.
You get the government you vote for after all.
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Not saying that, but don't people vote in for their government.
You get the government you vote for after all.
I agree. Or the government you don't vote for, given our abysmal voter turnout.
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Nah. I'm going to try and help you find a wiper. :)
Look in the red herring section. Maybe there's a bar code for it too. :D
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Look in the red herring section. Maybe there's a bar code for it too. :D
Maybe. Bar codes are awesome. You would really love them, because you don't have to manually input anything. Just scan right from your phone. Perfect for a lazy man. :D
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Maybe. Bar codes are awesome. You would really love them, because you don't have to manually input anything. Just scan right from your phone. Perfect for a lazy man. :D
Then they could put them on menus. Wait, that would bankrupt the chain restaurant industry.