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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Never1AShow on January 23, 2016, 06:27:33 AM

Title: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Never1AShow on January 23, 2016, 06:27:33 AM
None work.  All claim to work.  How can there be an entire industry based on pure horseshit?  I'm a very profreedom libertarian on many things, but how can this be allowed?  How is GNC not closed down?

PS, I don't need to hear about the one in 10,000 exception.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: OB1 on January 23, 2016, 06:31:55 AM
Nope. But most.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Royalty on January 23, 2016, 06:41:33 AM
None work.  All claim to work.  How can there be an entire industry based on pure horseshit?  I'm a very profreedom libertarian on many things, but how can this be allowed?  How is GNC not closed down?

PS, I don't need to hear about the one in 10,000 exception.

Preworkout supplements work

But they are way overpriced
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: BB on January 23, 2016, 06:47:36 AM
Frontline did a PBS special on this, this week. While a bit of it reeks of "hit" piece, some of it was quite interesting, especially how many of the major brands don't meet label claims or make substitutions for claimed ingredients. You can see it here -

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/ .
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: OB1 on January 23, 2016, 06:48:13 AM
Preworkout supplements work

But they are way overpriced

And underdosed most of the time.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Yamcha on January 23, 2016, 07:07:38 AM
if I didn't get my supplements for free, I don't think I'd ever use them again, except:
caffeine pills
and a high quality (supposedly) fish oil
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: youandme on January 23, 2016, 07:17:17 AM
Every? No.  Majority. Yes.
The mislabeling could be a big issue in the future. The claims, perhaps.
Deceptive, false, and misleading consumers is big money when it comes to consumer class actions.
There were a few mass tort attorneys advertising for clients who experienced liver failure due to dangerous supplements (superdrol some fat loss supplements too).....but what are they going to do get a million dollar judgment and actually get paid  ::)
Problem - Do these companies carry insurance? I'm sure but not a lot. Especially for recall issues.  
More likely they have insurance for spoilage and partial product loss issues.  

Be interesting if someone on this board with more information on the industry chimed in.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: oldschoolfan on January 23, 2016, 07:17:51 AM
if I didn't get my supplements for free, I don't think I'd ever use them again, except:
caffeine pills
and a high quality (supposedly) fish oil

mr yamcha are you saying basically that is all that works?

fuck thats scary.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: _aj_ on January 23, 2016, 07:20:00 AM
mr yamcha are you saying basically that is all that works?

fuck thats scary.

Anything that is remotely useful gets quickly hung on the elastic "steroid" list and made illegal.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Desolate on January 23, 2016, 07:20:50 AM
Frontline did a PBS special on this, this week. While a bit of it reeks of "hit" piece, some of it was quite interesting, especially how many of the major brands don't meet label claims or make substitutions for claimed ingredients. You can see it here -

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/ .

I was going to post a new thread on this special, but this is good enough.

Thanks, BB. 8)
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: youandme on January 23, 2016, 07:21:37 AM
Some supplement companies back in the 90s were selling basically wood powder and labeling it as protein powder.
Lol, one of those companies that did that is still around.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Desolate on January 23, 2016, 07:25:15 AM
I use protein supplements.

I still believe in vitamin and mineral supplements.

I take fish oil too.

I make my own drinks/shakes to get fruits and vegetables I don't usually like on their own.

I try to get a good amount of salads and I make my own vegetable soups.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: oldgolds on January 23, 2016, 07:27:19 AM
The NY attorney general got samples from Walmart, Target, GNC,CVS and had  them analyzed at a lab, Only 20% actually contained the ingredients listed on the label....80% were complete frauds...GNC is now having all their supplements DNA tested.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Yamcha on January 23, 2016, 07:27:54 AM
mr yamcha are you saying basically that is all that works?

fuck thats scary.

how else am I gonna turn pro?
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Desolate on January 23, 2016, 07:30:22 AM
The NY attorney general got samples from Walmart, Target, GNC,CVS and had  them analyzed at a lab, Only 20% actually contained the ingredients listed on the label....80% were complete frauds...GNC is now having all their supplements DNA tested.

Crazy. :o

It pisses me off though that the government doesn't watch and regulate the industry.

I don't want to hear the lies that there is insufficient government funds to do so. ::)

That's crap.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: youandme on January 23, 2016, 07:46:48 AM
Crazy. :o

It pisses me off though that the government doesn't watch and regulate the industry.

I don't want to hear the lies that there is insufficient government funds to do so. ::)

That's crap.

If you want government regulation of the industry then be prepared to pay $100 for a jug of protein powder.


Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 23, 2016, 07:53:49 AM
If you want government regulation of the industry then be prepared to pay $100 for a jug of protein powder.




You are joking right?  A $100 dollar increase?

There is zero regulation of supplements. You have no idea what's inside the stuff. No idea of the contaminants. Remember how contaminated Chinese sourced creatine was that the majority of supplement companies were using? The ingredients could be off. The clinical trials are a joke of a statement on their label.  There are glossy ads in muscle magazines that are supplements being made in a guy's garage. Sports Illustrated did an article on the supplement business way back. One guy was actually filling his jugs in his garage.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: youandme on January 23, 2016, 08:01:30 AM
You are joking right?  A $100 dollar increase?

There is zero regulation of supplements. You have no idea what's inside the stuff. No idea of the contaminants. Remember how contaminated Chinese sourced creatine was that the majority of supplement companies were using? The ingredients could be off. The clinical trials are a joke of a statement on their label.  There are glossy ads in muscle magazines that are supplements being made in a guy's garage. Sports Illustrated did an article on the supplement business way back. One guy was actually filling his jugs in his garage.

Lol, $100 was an exaggeration but costs would go up. Like you pointed out that guy filling jugs in his garage would have to follow whatever guidelines the government put in place.  I once bought some protein powder and found crickets in it!!  :o :o

Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Coffeed on January 23, 2016, 08:05:10 AM
It blows my mind how a forum like this can be so enlightened on pro bodybuilding but in the dark when it comes to supplements.

So often you hear something along the lines of "Supplements are a scam, that's why I only take X, Y, Z, A, B, C, D, E, F."

Look at your pre-workout. It's caffeine.

Caffeine works and it's in just about every "energy booster" laced with god knows what else. What a joke.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Rambone on January 23, 2016, 08:19:20 AM
None work.  All claim to work.  How can there be an entire industry based on pure horseshit?  I'm a very profreedom libertarian on many things, but how can this be allowed?  How is GNC not closed down?

PS, I don't need to hear about the one in 10,000 exception.

I think of this every time I see one. They must still do a decent job preying on the naive youth and senile elderly. I can't see them being around in the next decade. The Blockbuster Videos of the supplement industry.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: falco on January 23, 2016, 09:39:58 AM
Dat dere cell-tech was some serious shit. Stacked with acetabolan, you will became Jay Cutler.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Grape Ape on January 23, 2016, 09:41:15 AM
Creatine, protein powder, fish oils, etc...can all be used beneficially....
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: SF1900 on January 23, 2016, 09:42:33 AM
A few years back, I went into GNC to browse. I picked up a muscletech product and Jay Cutler was on it. Some old man walked out from behind the counter and approached me. I asked him if I took X muscletech supplement, would I look like Jay Cutler. His response was, "Of course."  :D :D
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: markofan on January 23, 2016, 11:00:38 AM
A few years back, I went into GNC to browse. I picked up a muscletech product and Jay Cutler was on it. Some old man walked out from behind the counter and approached me. I asked him if I took X muscletech supplement, would I look like Jay Cutler. His response was, "Of course."  :D :D

That's true.  If he works for GNC he wouldn't lie.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on January 23, 2016, 11:23:40 AM
31 years training. 

Here is what works:

1. Creatine... but you only need about 50% of the amount the supp companies claim you need.

2. Protein/aminos... more is necessary when you are training balls to the wall.  BCAA's are very important, especially Leucine.

3. Caffeine... no more than 100mgs before the workout.

That's about it.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Yamcha on January 23, 2016, 11:25:43 AM
31 years training. 

Here is what works for me:

1. Creatine... but you only need about 50% of the amount the supp companies claim you need.

2. Protein/aminos... more is necessary when you are training balls to the wall.  BCAA's are very important, especially Leucine.

3. Caffeine... no more than 100mgs before the workout.

That's about it.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Raymondo on January 23, 2016, 11:32:46 AM
None work.  All claim to work.  How can there be an entire industry based on pure horseshit?  I'm a very profreedom libertarian on many things, but how can this be allowed?  How is GNC not closed down?

PS, I don't need to hear about the one in 10,000 exception.

Because it is a deregulated industry. It is just business.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Howard on January 23, 2016, 11:48:56 AM
None work.  All claim to work.  How can there be an entire industry based on pure horseshit?  I'm a very profreedom libertarian on many things, but how can this be allowed?  How is GNC not closed down?

PS, I don't need to hear about the one in 10,000 exception.

The US congress led by Sen Hatch (R) of Utah, backed legislation to
insure supplement companies could avoid full disclosure .
http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2014/10/hatch-marks-20th-anniversary-of-the-dietary-supplement-health-and-education-act-dshea

The above link is only one example of this, but the trend has moved to keep GOV out of inspecting most supps.
In my opinion, without some form of inspection, the industry becomes the wild west and buyer beware.
Imagine the meat and poultry industry without GOV meat inspectors?! Talk about run away disease and illness!

Obviously, there were some pros and cons of this kind of "hands off" , buyer beware policy.

1. I now buy most of my supplements at big box , discount stores, like Wal-Mart or Target.
They tend to offer the best prices and are big enough to avoid useless gimmick supps .

If a start up/new supplement brand is found fraudulent, it likely won't make much noise in the media.
That's why Gorilla Balls mass powder can be total fake crap. BUT, it still can cash in with meatheads, then folds without much trouble.

2. I stick with basic, proven stuff and avoid gimmicks when possible. I use:
 Body Fortress or Six Star Whey Isolate protein, avg Wal-Mart price is around 18-20 bucks per 1.5 lbs and it tastes good.
Fish Oil tabs ( burp free) , Vit/min tabs , Various thermogenic (tabs and or powders)
BPI - Vortex is sold at Wal_mart, mixes easy , tastes good and gives me a pre workout lift.
I also use Glucosimine/Chondrotin tabs for joints.

If a supp doesn't help, I simply stop buying it and chalk it up to experience.

3. For my testosterone levels , I am on prescribed Androgel and have been for the past decade.
Test levels stay in the 600's mg/dl and no side effects and decent levels on my 20 indicator annual blood work.

Supplements were meant to be just that, a SUPPPLEMENT to add a bit more to an existing good diet.
FOOD in the form of quality lean meats, dairy grains , fruits and veggies is still the most important aspect of your nutrition.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: disco_stu on January 23, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
if I didn't get my supplements for free, I don't think I'd ever use them again, except:
caffeine pills
and a high quality (supposedly) fish oil

do some research on fish oil.

it has no benefit whatsoever unless you are a lactating mother, and in that case the benefit is very minor.

try looking at actual qualified research, not BS studies pushed by manufacturers. \

adelaide university in australia did the study im referring to.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Never1AShow on January 23, 2016, 02:07:35 PM
Sure, caffeine works a little to rev you up.  It is being sold through fraud at a 10x markup in these supplements.  99 percent of everything on GNC's shelves is fraud.  Making false claims is not "just business."  It is fraud and should be stopped.  It is way way way beyond some kind of let the buyer beware scenario.  But it has gone on for so long and is so entrenched and moneyed up that nothing is done to stop it.

Imagine the auto industry selling cars where less than 1 in a 100 was able to drive a mile down the road.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Howard on January 23, 2016, 08:56:59 PM
do some research on fish oil.

it has no benefit whatsoever unless you are a lactating mother, and in that case the benefit is very minor.

try looking at actual qualified research, not BS studies pushed by manufacturers. \

adelaide university in australia did the study im referring to.

Ever seen a fish drown from a heart attack?
Hmmmm, I thought not...
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: OB1 on January 23, 2016, 09:33:16 PM
Fish oil is in about the same category as fart powder.
Basically close to useless.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on January 24, 2016, 04:51:22 AM


Let me guess, you're 20 years old.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2016, 05:34:43 AM
Fish oil is in about the same category as fart powder.
Basically close to useless.


I guess you're gonna tell me now that nutraceutical anti-inflammatory are bullshit too?
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: HavoX on January 24, 2016, 06:52:51 AM
31 years training. 

Here is what works:

1. Creatine... but you only need about 50% of the amount the supp companies claim you need.

2. Protein/aminos... more is necessary when you are training balls to the wall.  BCAA's are very important, especially Leucine.

3. Caffeine... no more than 100mgs before the workout.



That's about it.

Why no more than 100 Mgs?  That's like a half cup of good coffee
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Mr Anabolic on January 24, 2016, 06:57:38 AM
Why no more than 100 Mgs?  That's like a half cup of good coffee

It's actually about a whole cup.

If someone needs more than that to get a pre-workout buzz, they're already taking too much per day.  I save it for pre-workout only
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Howard on January 24, 2016, 08:31:14 AM
Fish oil is in about the same category as fart powder.
Basically close to useless.


I disagree.

I see a huge need and market with the ladies here.
Fart powder = looking and SOUNDING sexy in her yoga pants.

Nothing makes a sexy lady feel better then hearing ; " Damn sweety, your butt smells." ;D
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: OB1 on January 24, 2016, 08:34:01 AM
I guess you're gonna tell me now that nutraceutical anti-inflammatory are bullshit too?

Probably not.
No experience with those.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: OB1 on January 24, 2016, 08:36:07 AM
I disagree.

I see a huge need and market with the ladies here.
Fart powder = looking and SOUNDING sexy in her yoga pants.

Nothing makes a sexy lady feel better then hearing ; " Damn sweety, your butt smells." ;D

 :D
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Rami on January 24, 2016, 08:52:24 AM
None work.  All claim to work.  How can there be an entire industry based on pure horseshit?  I'm a very profreedom libertarian on many things, but how can this be allowed?  How is GNC not closed down?

PS, I don't need to hear about the one in 10,000 exception.

In America it is expected that you are intelligent and can think for yourself and that bad businesses go out of businesses. Some level of discernment and intelligence is expected from the citizen on average to uphold this natural order of things.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: The Scott on January 24, 2016, 08:52:54 AM
Supplements are meant to supplement a healthy diet not replace it.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: the_doc on January 24, 2016, 08:56:58 AM
I guess you're gonna tell me now that nutraceutical anti-inflammatory are bullshit too?

Let me tell you instead. A lot of the commercial versions are complete bullshit.
It's not just bodybuilding, the entire supplement industry is mostly bullshit.
There are still only a handfull of useful items like caffeine, B&C vitamins and possibly fish oils but the benefit is overstated. Most supplements are overpriced containing some real products if you are lucky and lots of unproven crap thrown in.
When patients ask me I tell them it's their choice but I advise them to save their money.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: ritch on January 24, 2016, 08:57:15 AM
It's actually about a whole cup.

If someone needs more than that to get a pre-workout buzz, they're already taking too much per day.  I save it for pre-workout only

100% bullshit
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: ritch on January 24, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Supplements are meant to supplement a healthy diet not replace it.

Nobody said it was.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on January 24, 2016, 09:01:19 AM
Buy supplements and support the sport
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Howard on January 24, 2016, 09:07:58 AM
Buy supplements and support the sport

THAT...or deal with seeing bodybuilders getting busy with old schmoes and grapefruit.

If the supps don't fly off the store shelves, the semen will fly in hotel rooms. FACT
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Never1AShow on January 24, 2016, 09:28:18 AM
In America it is expected that you are intelligent and can think for yourself and that bad businesses go out of businesses. Some level of discernment and intelligence is expected from the citizen on average to uphold this natural order of things.

When based on obvious readily provable lies business crosses the line into fraud.  Fraud is illegal.  Just no one doing anything about it so need to crack down further. 
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: The Scott on January 24, 2016, 09:35:06 AM
Nobody said it was.
Nobody here said it was.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: ritch on January 24, 2016, 09:37:08 AM
Nobody here said it was.

Your post kinda hinted to it.
So what are they good for then?
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: The Scott on January 24, 2016, 09:54:48 AM
Your post kinda hinted to it.
So what are they good for then?

Sorry, I did not mean to. 

To make up (within reason) important vitamins/minerals which are lacking in sufficient quantity in  your dietary intake.   Right now I only take a vitamin/mineral pill once or twice a day and I pretty much eschew (unless they are on sale CHEAP!  ;D) those supplements that claim "all natural". 

All natural vitamin C for example comes from an orange, not a pill.  Even if the pill got its C from an orange it is no longer natural once it is made into pill form.

And no way would I ever get C from grapefruit.   ;D

Almost forgot to mention that I do drink a pre-workout concoction.  If not that then a Monster, a pop or tea.  They all work to help me wake up and get going with  some better than others.
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: ritch on January 24, 2016, 10:00:48 AM
Sorry, I did not mean to. 

To make up (within reason) important vitamins/minerals which are lacking in sufficient quantity in  your dietary intake.   Right now I only take a vitamin/mineral pill once or twice a day and I pretty much eschew (unless they are on sale CHEAP!  ;D) those supplements that claim "all natural". 

All natural vitamin C for example comes from an orange, not a pill.  Even if the pill got its C from an orange it is no longer natural once it is made into pill form.

And no way would I ever get C from grapefruit.   ;D

Almost forgot to mention that I do drink a pre-workout concoction.  If not that then a Monster, a pop or tea.  They all work to help me wake up and get gong with  some better than others.

Gotcha!
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Yamcha on January 24, 2016, 03:08:54 PM
Let me guess, you're 20 years old.

let me guess, you're the all-knowing wizard of assholes
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: Powerlift66 on January 25, 2016, 06:09:18 AM
The drink I make in the NutriBullet:

2 cups of milk: 16 grams of protein
1 raw egg: 6-7 grams of protein
teaspoon of Creatine
teaspoon of virgin olive oil (healthy fats)
Tablespoon of oats ground into powder (coffee grinder)
1 cup of frozen yogurt (6 grams protein)
fruit

Great drink with household items (except the creatine).

About 30 grams of protein, fiber from oats, healthy fats from olive oil, and creatine.
If its before the gym, I open up a caffeine capsule and empty in there as well (100 mg)
Title: Re: Is every single supplement company committing fraud?
Post by: _aj_ on January 25, 2016, 06:11:44 AM
The drink I make in the NutriBullet:

2 cups of milk: 16 grams of protein
1 raw egg: 6-7 grams of protein
teaspoon of Creatine
teaspoon of virgin olive oil (healthy fats)
Tablespoon of oats ground into powder (coffee grinder)
1 cup of frozen yogurt (6 grams protein)
fruit

Great drink with household items (except the creatine).

About 30 grams of protein, fiber from oats, healthy fats from olive oil, and creatine.
If its before the gym, I open up a caffeine capsule and empty in there as well (100 mg)

I do sorta the same, but I shore it up with protein powder (*gasp*)
- 2 raw eggs
- scoop of powdered oats
- 3-5g creatine
- 2 scoops whey protein
- big heap of natural peanut butter

Blast it in the Ninja