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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Slik on February 18, 2016, 09:05:58 PM
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I thought my wife misunderstood something or miss heard something because she told me the other day that Bernie Sanders wants to do away with regular insurance and have everybody on Medicare not just seniors but everybody. I don't really pay too much attention because I thought maybe it was just something she saw on Facebook. But I watch some of his Townhall tonight and that is exactly his plan. He flat out said he wants to put everyone on Medicare.
What are your guys thoughts on this ?
Sorry stupid speak to text on phone.
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Oh yeah bodybuilding related .... His face is always red, he looks like he has high blood pressure and could keel over at any moment.
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That won't work.
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The goal is Universal healthcare where everyone gets a card and you go into any hospital in the Country. The rich will still be able to use top notch doctors and specialist. The regular schmoe will get Dr. Melvin G where your health is a crap shoot.
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This Country can't even afford to take care of our elders who deserve Medicare. They are constantly decreasing the benefits for the people who really need it.
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It all doesn't matter because it's free.
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I thought my wife misunderstood something or miss heard something because she told me the other day that Bernie Sanders wants to do away with regular insurance and have everybody on Medicare not just seniors but everybody. I don't really pay too much attention because I thought maybe it was just something she saw on Facebook. But I watch some of his Townhall tonight and that is exactly his plan. He flat out said he wants to put everyone on Medicare.
What are your guys thoughts on this ?
Sorry stupid speak to text on phone.
You mean join the rest of the Industrialized world and actualyl have a healthcare system that SAVES money and is more efficient.
Why is it we pay MORE per capita per person in the United States but have WORSE outcomes than the rest of the world in terms of Healthcare?
http://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/
U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World
June 17, 2014
The U.S. ranks worst among 11 wealthy nations in terms of “efficiency, equity and outcomes" despite having the world's most expensive health care system
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This Country can't even afford to take care of our elders who deserve Medicare. They are constantly decreasing the benefits for the people who really need it.
They? Meaning morons who fight for private insurances where profit is more important than human suffering and misery?
Hmmm, I wonder who those people are. Follow the money.
We are paying MORE right now than we would be if we had a Medicare for All system and we are getting less and worse treatment and health outcomes.
We are an EMBARRASSMENT to the rest of the world.
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It all doesn't matter because it's free.
Drug addict free?
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That won't work.
Yes it would. It would save Billions and Billions, eventually into the trillions by cutting out the middleman (Insurance companies) whose only goal is to drive and dictate prices and to deny coverage as to make as much money off of human suffering as possible. There is no point to them other than that.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php
Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts
PRINT PAGE
EN ESPAÑOL
Facts about National Health Insurance (NHI) You Might Not Know
The health care delivery system remains private. As opposed to a national health service, where the government employs doctors, in a national health insurance system, the government is billed, but doctors remain in private
practice.
A national health insurance program could save approximately $150 billion on paperwork alone. Because of the administrative complexities in our current system, over 25% of every health care dollar goes to marketing, billing,
utilization review, and other forms of waste. A single-payer system could reduce administrative costs greatly.
Most businesses would save money. Because a single-payer system is more efficient than our current system, health care costs are less, and therefore, businesses save money. In Canada, the three major auto manufacturers (Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler) have all publicly endorsed Canada’s single-payer health system from a business and financial standpoint. In the United States, Ford pays more for its workers health insurance than it does for the steel to make its cars.
Under NHI, your insurance doesn’t depend on your job. Whether you’re a student, professor, or working part-time raising children, you’re provided with care. Not only does this lead to a healthier population, but it’s also beneficial from an economic standpoint: workers are less-tied to their
employers, and those that dislike their current positions can find new work
(where they would be happier and most likely more productive and efficient).
Myths about National Health Insurance (NHI)
The government would dictate how physicians practice medicine.
In countries with a national health insurance system, physicians are rarely questioned about their medical practices (and usually only in cases of expected fraud). Compare it to today’s system, where doctors routinely have to ask an insurance company permission to perform procedures, prescribe certain medications, or run certain tests to help their patients.
Waits for services would be extremely long.
Again, in countries with NHI, urgent care is always provided immediately. Other countries do experience some waits for elective procedures (like cataract removal), but maintaining the US’s same level of health expenditures (twice as much as the next-highest country), waits would be much shorter or even non-existent.
People will overutilize the system.
Most estimates do indicate that there would be some increased utilization of the system (mostly from the 42 million people that are currently uninsured and therefore not receiving adequate health care), however the staggering savings from a single-payer system would easily compensate for this. (And remember, doctors still control most health care utilization. Patients don’t receive prescriptions or tests because they want them; they receive them because their doctors have deemed them appropriate.)
Government programs are wasteful and inefficient.
Some are better than others, just as some businesses are better than others. Just to name a few of the most successful and helpful: the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control, and Social Security. Even consider Medicare, the government program for the elderly; its overhead is approximately 3%, while in private insurance companies, overhead and profits add up to 15-25%.
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Well, he lies less than the others. Give him that.
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Massive Savings. Hilarious that Conservatives are too stupid to realize that Single Payer saves Trillions of dollars in the long run. So much for being fiscally aware. ::)
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-system-cost
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Well, he lies less than the others. Give him that.
What are you talking about? Show me one instance where he lied or has lied?
You can't just say nonsense and float it as truth.
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I hear Dr Malachi Love-Robinson is accepting new patients.
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What are you talking about? Show me one instance where he lied or has lied?
You can't just say nonsense and float it as truth.
Being a polietician his job is to lie.
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On the interwebz, so it must be true...
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(http://s29.postimg.org/u9bkuq6xz/IXAjuu4.jpg)
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(http://s29.postimg.org/u9bkuq6xz/IXAjuu4.jpg)
LOL!
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i know it's a EXTREMELY moot point but can people just post there own words and stop relying on the cut and paste
the irony is that "smart people" cut and paste to show how "smart" they are....fucking really?!
it's just so annoying, predictable and boring to be honest
I opened this thread and I already knew there was gonna be something "copy and pasted"
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i know it's a EXTREMELY moot point but can people just post there own words and stop relying on the cut and paste
the irony is that "smart people" cut and paste to show how "smart" they are....fucking really?!
it's just so annoying, predictable and boring to be honest
I opened this thread and I already knew there was gonna be something "copy and pasted"
The sad truth is, the "cut and paste" individuals do not think for themselves. They rely on other persons ideas and research. However, for every study that proves a point, you can find a study that will disprove that point. IE, wine is good for the heart, but alcohol is poison for the body. I personally like to take everything with a grain of salt, and make educated decisions based on a number of variables. Not just based off of something I read online. :-\
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The sad truth is, the "cut and paste" individuals do not think for themselves. They rely on other persons ideas and research. However, for every study that proves a point, you can find a study that will disprove that point. IE, wine is good for the heart, but alcohol is poison for the body. I personally like to take everything with a grain of salt, and make educated decisions based on a number of variables. Not just based off of something I read online. :-\
i just smh at the whole phenomenon
I'm not smart but I kinda sorta take pride in that when you read my words they are MY WORDS.
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I kinda sorta take pride in that when you read my words they are MY WORDS.
Props for that.
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i know it's a EXTREMELY moot point but can people just post there own words and stop relying on the cut and paste
the irony is that "smart people" cut and paste to show how "smart" they are....fucking really?!
it's just so annoying, predictable and boring to be honest
I opened this thread and I already knew there was gonna be something "copy and pasted"
You don't seem to understand Socialism. It's our right to have someone else do our dirty work for us. ;)
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You don't seem to understand Socialism. It's our right to have someone else do our dirty work for us. ;)
I haven't replied yet because I haven't quite found the right Neil DeGrasse Tyson article yet
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Massive Savings. Hilarious that Conservatives are too stupid to realize that Single Payer saves Trillions of dollars in the long run. So much for being fiscally aware. ::)
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-system-cost
thats the rub.
Conservative ideas consist of a huge list of do's and don'ts. Universal healthcare falls in the "Dont" category because it sounds like another step towards socialism. In neocon theory, "single payer would only lead to various negative outcomes" (that arent proven by any measure.)
So while single payer might save money, it wont even get out of the gates to be explored because a dirty phrase to conservatives.
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You mean join the rest of the Industrialized world and actualyl have a healthcare system that SAVES money and is more efficient.
Why is it we pay MORE per capita per person in the United States but have WORSE outcomes than the rest of the world in terms of Healthcare?
http://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/
U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World
June 17, 2014
The U.S. ranks worst among 11 wealthy nations in terms of “efficiency, equity and outcomes" despite having the world's most expensive health care system
QFT.
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Taking the profit motive out and turning it over to the government always works. I'd much rather have things run by the Post Office than Fedex.
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if u stick it to the insurance company they will just increase rates of other insurance rates
you cant win at this by saying fuk u to big insurance
you win in life by making more money with trump deals
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The starting of this topic just proves once again what a bunch of brain washed morons a large % of Americans are.
1% have great lives. 9% have good lives. And the other 90% get constantly fucked up the arse while being told they live in the greatest country in the world.
But this is the way the founding fathers from Scotland and England set up. Create a nation of gullible people so the rich can fleece them. Medical companies and insurance companies being prime examples.
I spend half my time in Florida and it always amuses me how many old decrepit people still work. They cannot afford to stop or they couldn't pay their medical costs.
Meanwhile in the civilised world old people can stop work in their 60's and not have to care about being able to afford to eat and get medical attention.
And of course any man or woman from whatever background can be president. As long as they have the backing of multi million dollar corporations with an agenda to keep the wealth for the 10%. Land of the free ? ::) Yes free to work yourself to an early death to keep the 10% in luxury.
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The starting of this topic just proves once again what a bunch of brain washed morons a large % of Americans are.
1% have great lives. 9% have good lives. And the other 90% get constantly fucked up the arse while being told they live in the greatest country in the world.
But this is the way the founding fathers from Scotland and England set up. Create a nation of gullible people so the rich can fleece them. Medical companies and insurance companies being prime examples.
I spend half my time in Florida and it always amuses me how many old decrepit people still work. They cannot afford to stop or they couldn't pay their medical costs.
Meanwhile in the civilised world old people can stop work in their 60's and not have to care about being able to afford to eat and get medical attention.
And of course any man or woman from whatever background can be president. As long as they have the backing of multi million dollar corporations with an agenda to keep the wealth for the 10%. Land of the free ? ::) Yes free to work yourself to an early death to keep the 10% in luxury.
How is that civilised world (code word for Europe) doing now? Ah, the retire in one 's 60s. But, how much are you paying in taxes? And the health care, can one get the procedures right away, or is one on a waiting list? And let's not go into the dental situation in the UK.
There is no perfect solution. Each one has its drawbacks.
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Taking the profit motive out and turning it over to the government always works. I'd much rather have things run by the Post Office than Fedex.
See if fedex will send your letter for 40 cents with 6 day a week delivery.
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How is that civilised world (code word for Europe) doing now? Ah, the retire in one 's 60s. But, how much are you paying in taxes? And the health care, can one get the procedures right away, or is one on a waiting list? And let's not go into the dental situation in the UK.
There is no perfect solution. Each one has its drawbacks.
He's another European with American penis envy. The so-called poor people here average almost 4000 calories a day and have access to goods and services that weren't even available to the elites just a few years ago.
Al should be little nicer as America is the biggest buyer of the Scotch his country produces.
See if fedex will send your letter for 40 cents with 6 day a week delivery.
There's this thing called email...
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if u stick it to the insurance company they will just increase rates of other insurance rates
you cant win at this by saying fuk u to big insurance
you win in life by making more money with trump deals
How is it going to be "free" without money from insurance companies?
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Rich Piano is afraid of Universal Healthcare. He knows that if it goes to that and the Government takes over, the feds will give him a "hot shot" and put him out of his misery...
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How is that civilised world (code word for Europe) doing now? Ah, the retire in one 's 60s. But, how much are you paying in taxes? And the health care, can one get the procedures right away, or is one on a waiting list? And let's not go into the dental situation in the UK.
There is no perfect solution. Each one has its drawbacks.
By civilised I mean Japan, Australia, Canada, Mainland Europe etc. UK for example, first $16,000 earned is tax free. 20% for earning between $16,000 and $70,000. Goes up to 40% for earnings above $70,000. No need for health insurance. Waiting lists for operations down to typically 3-6 months. Urgent cases no waiting at all. Sadly, the CEO's of insurance and drug firms are not getting multi million dollar bonuses here.
Dental situation is subsidised for working people with the option to pay extra for private treatment. Typical filling or extraction around $50. Dental skill just as good in UK as USA now (I've been treated in both countries).
In Scotland University education is free. Kids from poor backgrounds can study medicine, law , engineering or whatever as long as they have the school grades. This makes for a much more upwardly mobile society.
Having said all that, I really enjoy living in the USA. It does have great places and people and I'm just busting balls with my insulting comments.
I do find it strange your attitude to healthcare though. It's the way Veterinary doctors behave in UK. If you have no cash or insurance poor Fido the dog dies.
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You can't have free health care with millions of illegals.
Deport the free loading scum and get health care...or shut the fuck up.
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Al should be little nicer as America is the biggest buyer of the Scotch his country produces.
I actually love America and it's people. That's why I bought a house there and stay 3 months at a time. Not allowed to stay there permanently at the moment but might be a plan. The fuckin weathers a damn site better.
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You can't have free health care with millions of illegals.
Deport the free loading scum and get health care...or shut the fuck up.
This is a big concern for me for the UK. Need to stop the scum getting in so hopefully will get out of EU at the future referendum.
Having said that, I was in hospital a couple years back and the doctors and nurses were all immigrants. Didn't see a white face all week.
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How is that civilised world (code word for Europe) doing now? Ah, the retire in one 's 60s. But, how much are you paying in taxes? And the health care, can one get the procedures right away, or is one on a waiting list? And let's not go into the dental situation in the UK.
There is no perfect solution. Each one has its drawbacks.
Advocates believe it's worth whatever lifestyle changes the tax increase would impose upon the middle class. Some are also foolish enough to believe costs wont affect low-income earners.
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Taking the profit motive out and turning it over to the government always works. I'd much rather have things run by the Post Office than Fedex.
Wrong. In fact, that's basically what is wrong with any communist country out there.
Imagine a country running most of the companies. Nobody cares about providing a good service cause they (the employees) are not going to see a dime of difference.
Now a private company, they have competition, and if they make more they earn more so they care (not all of them of course) about providing a good service, product, etc.
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Advocates believe it's worth whatever lifestyle changes the tax increase would impose upon the middle class. Some are also foolish enough to believe costs wont affect low-income earners.
Ha! Like wealth isn't self-generating. Ask Coach, pellius. :)
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How about we go the other way and decentralize. Get rid insurance companies AND socialized medicine. Let prices come down to what people can afford. Then you have real control on the quality you receive.
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Ha! Like wealth isn't self-generating. Ask Coach, pellius. :)
It's all free, man!
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i know it's a EXTREMELY moot point but can people just post there own words and stop relying on the cut and paste
the irony is that "smart people" cut and paste to show how "smart" they are....fucking really?!
it's just so annoying, predictable and boring to be honest
I opened this thread and I already knew there was gonna be something "copy and pasted"
I can't help you if you don't like data, evidence and facts.
I take it you wanted me to intern with the World Health Organization and then become a research scientist with the NIH and then work on putting together peer-reviewed journals so I can present them to you, even though the work has already been done.
Or, I could just take this opportunity to highlight that you and most of Getbig is comprised of mindless morons who are too dumb to read anything factual and would rather be spoonfed untrue bullshit. I mean look at this very thread and the replies. I wonder on a daily basis how most you people even operate. The world must be a very scary place without knowing what is fact or fiction.
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By civilised I mean Japan, Australia, Canada, Mainland Europe etc. UK for example, first $16,000 earned is tax free. 20% for earning between $16,000 and $70,000. Goes up to 40% for earnings above $70,000. No need for health insurance. Waiting lists for operations down to typically 3-6 months. Urgent cases no waiting at all. Sadly, the CEO's of insurance and drug firms are not getting multi million dollar bonuses here.
Dental situation is subsidised for working people with the option to pay extra for private treatment. Typical filling or extraction around $50. Dental skill just as good in UK as USA now (I've been treated in both countries).
In Scotland University education is free. Kids from poor backgrounds can study medicine, law , engineering or whatever as long as they have the school grades. This makes for a much more upwardly mobile society.
Having said all that, I really enjoy living in the USA. It does have great places and people and I'm just busting balls with my insulting comments.
I do find it strange your attitude to healthcare though. It's the way Veterinary doctors behave in UK. If you have no cash or insurance poor Fido the dog dies.
Do you believe healthcare is a right?
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Do you believe healthcare is a right?
Yes, as does every civilised society. Do you think it should be based on ability to pay?
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The starting of this topic just proves once again what a bunch of brain washed morons a large % of Americans are.
1% have great lives. 9% have good lives. And the other 90% get constantly fucked up the arse while being told they live in the greatest country in the world.
But this is the way the founding fathers from Scotland and England set up. Create a nation of gullible people so the rich can fleece them. Medical companies and insurance companies being prime examples.
I spend half my time in Florida and it always amuses me how many old decrepit people still work. They cannot afford to stop or they couldn't pay their medical costs.
Meanwhile in the civilised world old people can stop work in their 60's and not have to care about being able to afford to eat and get medical attention.
And of course any man or woman from whatever background can be president. As long as they have the backing of multi million dollar corporations with an agenda to keep the wealth for the 10%. Land of the free ? ::) Yes free to work yourself to an early death to keep the 10% in luxury.
what in the world does the example of old people having to work longer than they should have anything to do with the virtues of the Medicare system? If anything it bolsters the position that Medicare sux. So let's give the failed Medicare system to all!
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Yes, as does every civilised society. Do you think it should be based on ability to pay?
I see it as a resource we have to allocate.
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It's easy to call healthcare a right when you're not the one cleaning the bedpans.
What you're essentially saying is that you have a right to someone else's labor.
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It's easy to call healthcare a right when you're not the one cleaning the bedpans.
What you're essentially saying is that you have a right to someone else's labor.
.... education, debt, and their entire life.
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It's easy to call healthcare a right when you're not the one cleaning the bedpans.
What you're essentially saying is that you have a right to someone else's labor.
Bit of a Marxist objection from you there, interestingly, but inaccurate. When children go to school 'for free' it isn't because they have a right to the teacher's labor. The teacher gets paid and the kids get schooling. The program seeks to provide universal access to something essential while compensating those who provide it. Absolutely we could debate about the quality provided by public vs profit setups, which is the usual brewhaha in these discussions, but no one is breaking rocks in the hot sun at gunpoint because of a government program.
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It's easy to call healthcare a right when you're not the one cleaning the bedpans.
What you're essentially saying is that you have a right to someone else's labor.
Bingo!
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Pretty sure he isn't in Ibiza getting the girls
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Not bingo. Name one employee of a government program who is forced to work for free and has no choice in the matter.
Bunch of tobacky chawin' Oregon occupiers around here.
"Greatest country on Earth! Luv it or leave it!"
"The Gubment's evil! Out to getcha!"
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Not bingo. Name one employee of a government program who is forced to work for free and has no choice in the matter.
And where the money comes from?
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And where the money comes from?
Hey, where the money comes from is a totally different debate. Maybe you'll even win that one.
But I take it we're past the goofball 'right to someone's labor' objection then? And paranoid claims that someone is going to be forced to empty bedpans for free? You guys are abandoning this silly position now, are you?
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Bit of a Marxist objection from you there, interestingly, but inaccurate. When children go to school 'for free' it isn't because they have a right to the teacher's labor. The teacher gets paid and the kids get schooling. The program seeks to provide universal access to something essential while compensating those who provide it. Absolutely we could debate about the quality provided by public vs profit setups, which is the usual brewhaha in these discussions, but no one is breaking rocks in the hot sun at gunpoint because of a government program.
No we provide education because we believe it's right, not because you or anyone else has a right to be educated by someone else. There's a difference between asking for help and demanding it. Government workers are paid with money taken by threat of force, you know, taxes. Btw, if you don't pay your taxes to support these programs, there will eventually be men with guns coming to your house.
It's not a Marxist objection. It's a Libertarian objection that no one has a right to take what is not theirs.
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Hey, where the money comes from is a totally different debate. Maybe you'll even win that one.
But I take it we're past the goofball 'right to someone's labor' objection then? And paranoid claims that someone is going to be forced to empty bedpans for free? You guys are abandoning this silly position now, are you?
Fair well, how about this little adjustment? It basically sums up my position about healthcare.
It's easy to call healthcare a right when you're not paying the one cleaning the bedpans.
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Fair well, how about this little adjustment? It basically sums up my position about healthcare.
Yes. The reality is that the entitlement mentality has become so pervasive that anyone who argues against it is a "goofball."
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And where the money comes from?
It's free! :)
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No we provide education because we believe it's right, not because you or anyone else has a right to be educated by someone else. There's a difference between asking for help and demanding it. Government workers are paid with money taken by threat of force, you know, taxes. Btw, if you don't pay your taxes to support these programs, there will eventually be men with guns coming to your house.
It's not a Marxist objection. It's a Libertarian objection that no one has a right to take what is not theirs.
So the people emptying the bedpans would get paid and are working by choice. There's no question of anyone having a right to their labor.
The money? Yes, taxes. You pay for roads that you never use. Schools even if you have no kids. Police that you never call. Wars you might object to. It sucks, I agree, as would paying for an obese heroin addict's medical care when you make an effort to be healthy. Valid objection. I don't agree with how a lot of the tax money gets spent, or the way taxes are applied, but I don't disagree with the principle of taxation as a means to provide for the general welfare.
It boils down to whether you're willing to carry someone weaker. Some hopeless fucks are always going to need to be carried. I'm willing to accept that as the cost of providing basic services which differentiate the developed world from the third world. There is an injustice being done to those of us who do the carrying, true, but we have also been carried insofar as we got to go through our lives in some pretty lucky circumstances, all things considered. I don't mind giving some back in exchange for that. I'd rather live in a cooperative society than in the jungle where it's every man for himself. I'm willing to pay for the obese heroine addict's health care while I'm strong on the understanding that someone will fix my arm if I fall off a ladder one day and break it. Plenty of universal service programs work just fine (not perfect but fine) so I don't buy into the pessimistic view of humanity as dooming to failure any program that involves helping people.
What I find hard to reconcile about those who propound the every man for himself view is that they didn't just walk out of the jungle and start telling me about how great shit is in there and how there's no injustice. It's always some suburbanite who has deluded himself into believing that he is the sole reason for any success he has had. Never a word about how the fortunate circumstances into which he was born, put together and paid for by people he never met, made the fruits of his labor possible. You're not a victim of taxation. You've benefited from taxation all your life. Look around you.
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For sanders to fulfill his plans he'll have to tax anyone making a decent income up to 50% and then give the 90% freeloaders all they want for doing jack shit.
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The plan is to create even more debt.
HTH
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The plan is to create even more debt.
HTH
Not if he raises taxes to cover it.
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Not if he raises taxes to cover it.
Even if "he" does that is unlikely to cover it all.
Nevertheless the agenda persists.
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What if we didn't spend trillions knocking over mud brick structures with super expensive weaponry and then building nice new ones on the other side of the world for a bunch of backward assed goat humpers?
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So the people emptying the bedpans would get paid and are working by choice. There's no question of anyone having a right to their labor.
The money? Yes, taxes. You pay for roads that you never use. Schools even if you have no kids. Police that you never call. Wars you might object to. It sucks, I agree, as would paying for an obese heroin addict's medical care when you make an effort to be healthy. Valid objection. I don't agree with how a lot of the tax money gets spent, or the way taxes are applied, but I don't disagree with the principle of taxation as a means to provide for the general welfare.
It boils down to whether you're willing to carry someone weaker. Some hopeless fucks are always going to need to be carried. I'm willing to accept that as the cost of providing basic services which differentiate the developed world from the third world. There is an injustice being done to those of us who do the carrying, true, but we have also been carried insofar as we got to go through our lives in some pretty lucky circumstances, all things considered. I don't mind giving some back in exchange for that. I'd rather live in a cooperative society than in the jungle where it's every man for himself. I'm willing to pay for the obese heroine addict's health care while I'm strong on the understanding that someone will fix my arm if I fall off a ladder one day and break it. Plenty of universal service programs work just fine (not perfect but fine) so I don't buy into the pessimistic view of humanity as dooming to failure any program that involves helping people.
What I find hard to reconcile about those who propound the every man for himself view is that they didn't just walk out of the jungle and start telling me about how great shit is in there and how there's no injustice. It's always some suburbanite who has deluded himself into believing that he is the sole reason for any success he has had. Never a word about how the fortunate circumstances into which he was born, put together and paid for by people he never met, made the fruits of his labor possible. You're not a victim of taxation. You've benefited from taxation all your life. Look around you.
Very good points and I agree most of use have benefited from taxation, but the underlaying problem is, like Thin Lizzy said, the feeling of entitlement; being used to get something without really trying. I think that's a huge a problem for any society.
If you're a productive member of society you pay taxes, sometimes a lot of them. Therefore you expect the goverment to use that money to improve people's quality of life trough education, roads, and of course, healthcare programs. But, when you see people trying to skip the "tax paying" part, that is irritating, at least it is for me.
But, let's take away the outraging part, which is subjective, you still have to ask to yourself:
Is this sustanaible in the long run?
Is this just a politician's way to earn voters?
You're gonna find studies, articles, etc saying it is actually doable, but, are thos studies unbiased? Are they reliable?
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Very good points and I agree most of use have benefited from taxation, but the underlaying problem is, like Thin Lizzy said, the feeling of entitlement; being used to get something without really trying. I think that's a huge a problem for any society.
If you're a productive member of society you pay taxes, sometimes a lot of them. Therefore you expect the goverment to use that money to improve people's quality of life trough education, roads, and of course, healthcare programs. But, when you see people trying to skip the "tax paying" part, that is irritating, at least it is for me.
But, let's take away the outraging part, which is subjective, you still have to ask to yourself:
Is this sustanaible in the long run?
Is this just a politician's way to earn voters?
You're gonna find studies, articles, etc saying it is actually doable, but, are thos studies unbiased? Are they reliable?
Shit yes, there's more than enough tax money. It just all goes to the military.
More than enough private money too but I'll have to put on my foil occupy hat to talk about that one.
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"Everybody on Medicare" lmao.
Delusional old bastard..lol
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Not bingo. Name one employee of a government program who is forced to work for free and has no choice in the matter.
Bunch of tobacky chawin' Oregon occupiers around here.
"Greatest country on Earth! Luv it or leave it!"
"The Gubment's evil! Out to getcha!"
Getbig has been steadily decreasing in rationality and intelligence for quite a long time now.
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I can't help you if you don't like data, evidence and facts.
I take it you wanted me to intern with the World Health Organization and then become a research scientist with the NIH and then work on putting together peer-reviewed journals so I can present them to you, even though the work has already been done.
Or, I could just take this opportunity to highlight that you and most of Getbig is comprised of mindless morons who are too dumb to read anything factual and would rather be spoonfed untrue bullshit. I mean look at this very thread and the replies. I wonder on a daily basis how most you people even operate. The world must be a very scary place without knowing what is fact or fiction.
Adonis,
I don't want any of that
I go on forums for genuine, sincere opinions....
Internet forums affords people a semi-anonymous opportunity for us to express ourselves
If I want facts I'LL GOOGLE FOR FACTS.....
you strike me as a guy who isn't afraid to voice his opinion...So, it's okay to support your opinions with facts but don't just copy and paste someone else's term paper and just say "I believe all of this"....it's just a cop out and very boring
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what are we aguin about here specifically
there will always be folks gaming the system u cant change them you and everyone else will always pay 4 them.
so lets get a president that will help us help ourselfs put more money in our pockets so it wont be such a burden and have extra money also
trump is the answer
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All taxation is theft - Josiah Warren
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All taxation is theft - Josiah Warren
So is driving on paved roads and highways a bad thing?
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@ Tapeworm,
Well-intended help has made many helpless.
It's not sustainable, either. What happens when we run out of money? Just keep raising taxes?
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@ Tapeworm,
Well-intended help has made many helpless.
It's not sustainable, either. What happens when we run out of money? Just keep raising taxes?
Its cheaper and saves Billions and then trillions as it continues than what we have now according to all Peer-Reviewed studies on Single Payer vs. what we have now.
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Its cheaper and saves Billions and then trillions as it continues than what we have now according to all Peer-Reviewed studies on Single Payer vs. what we have now.
If you're talking about the link you posted, that's not a peer reviewed study. Heck, it's not even a study.
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is this sanders medicare basically obama medicare repackaged?
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@ Tapeworm,
Well-intended help has made many helpless.
It's not sustainable, either. What happens when we run out of money? Just keep raising taxes?
You understand government funded medical works everywhere else. Even countries with lower tax rates than the US. And, as I keep repeating, if there were a way to reign in the retarded military budget it would solve a lot. You could even lower those evil, evil taxes if you wanted to.
As for the well intended help - if I were king there would still be the most hated of all programs: Welfare. But recipients would have to log a certain number of hours per day, say 4, doing something or learning a job skill. Teach a man to fish etc.
And if you don't turn up you don't get paid. You don't still get 4/5 of the money if you skip Monday. You're there all 5 days a week for every required hour or you get 0. So don't get sick. Don't get arrested. You're either there or you're not. This is the Last Chance Saloon and them's the rules.
A small percentage would be picking up roadside trash for Welfare and grumbling about it for the rest of their lives. Most people, however, would eventually take an interest in something, learn it, find work, and build a life.
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If you're talking about the link you posted, that's not a peer reviewed study. Heck, it's not even a study.
I thought you guys don't want me to post Peer Reviewed studies anymore. I can post them if you want.
See how you morons react? Damned if I don't, Damned if I do. :D
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@ Tapeworm,
Well-intended help has made many helpless.
It's not sustainable, either. What happens when we run out of money? Just keep raising taxes?
Besides, this is complete horseshit. Each man is responsible for his choices.
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I thought you guys don't want me to post Peer Reviewed studies anymore. I can post them if you want.
See how you morons react? Damned if I don't, Damned if I do. :D
You haven't posted a peer reviewed study yet.
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You haven't posted a peer reviewed study yet.
Let me ask first, do you want them?
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Besides, this is complete horseshit. Each man is responsible for his choices.
The system puts responsibility for payment on others.
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i really don't see why there's such a big fuss about universal healthcare in the us
as far as i gather no one really pays for healthcare at the point use in the us anyway rather you just pay insurance companies who then pay when you need treatment.
maybe i'm missing something but there's not a massive difference with how it works in europe, other than the increments you pay here go more or less straight to the healthcare provider rather than through the insurance industry first. oh and there aren't millions without cover.
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"Well-intended help has made many helpless" treads dangerously close to 'the white man's welfare keeps the black man down' and I'm not buying any of that.
The system puts responsibility for payment on others.
Employment puts the responsibility for payment on the employer. Doesn't make the employee helpless.
The basic problem is that welfare is given unconditionally. Recipients should have to do something for it or they don't get it. Cancelling the entire program outright is foolish.
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"Well-intended help has made many helpless" treads dangerously close to 'the white man's welfare keeps the black man down' and I'm not buying any of that.
Employment puts the responsibility for payment on the employer. Doesn't make the employee helpless.
The basic problem is that welfare is given unconditionally. Recipients should have to do something for it or they don't get it. Cancelling the entire program outright is foolish.
Is it legal to make people work for welfare?
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The system puts responsibility for payment on others.
The system we have now does that. What do you think Insurance Premiums are? Money collected at an exorbitant rate to fund someone elses healthcare.
Are you stupid or something? ???
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Jezebelle and I have to pay 8400 dollars a year for coverage (price is for both of us). And I haven't been to the doctor since age 8.
Wonder where that 8400 dollars a year goes to? ??? Other people.
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Is it legal to make people work for welfare?
It is. In NC they just started that with Food Stamps. You either have to have a job or you can volunteer. I don't really agree with it, but its legal.
Food stamps will soon require 20 hours of work or classes in NC
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article53894400.html#storylink=cpy
Food stamp recipients in North Carolina soon will lose benefits unless they prove they’re working, volunteering or taking classes for at least 20 hours a week.
That federal requirement – which applies to adults under 50 who don’t have children – was suspended in 2008 as the recession hit and unemployment rates rose. But the exemption ended Jan. 1 for 23 mostly urban counties across the state, including Wake, Durham and Mecklenburg.
While the 77 other counties are seeing a slower economic recovery and could continue the federal exemption, the state legislature acted last year to restore the work and education requirement statewide starting July 1.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article53894400.html#storylink=cpy
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The system we have now does that. What do you think Insurance Premiums are? Money collected at an exorbitant rate to fund someone elses healthcare.
Are you stupid or something? ???
Why complain about paying your fair (if that's the actual out-of-pocket cost) share?
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Why complain about paying your fair (if that's the actual out-of-pocket cost) share?
Because, its the only Health Insurance we can really get. I complain because it would save me 8400 dollars to have Single Payer and I would have better coverage.
I am paying in the event of something catastrophic happening, not because I want it. I am also forced to buy it. Its bullshit and a waste of money. Single Payer saves Trillions in the long run, Billions and Billions instantly and offers better comprehensive care.
Insurance at that rate makes ZERO sense for someone like me.
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Because, its the only Health Insurance we can really get. I complain because it would save me 8400 dollars to have Single Payer and I would have better coverage.
I am paying in the event of something catastrophic happening, not because I want it. I am also forced to buy it. Its bullshit and a waste of money. Single Payer saves Trillions in the long run, Billions and Billions instantly and offers better comprehensive care.
Insurance at that rate makes ZERO sense for someone like me.
Jesus - the reason you are forced to buy insurance is the Ahole president we now have in office pushed through his ACA. You know, the same Ahole you nonstop campaigned for on here 7 years ago...
And you call people on here morons? Lol irony of all ironies.
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Jesus - the reason you are forced to buy insurance is the Ahole president we now have in office pushed through his ACA. You know, the same Ahole you nonstop campaigned for on here 7 years ago...
And you call people on here morons? Lol irony of all ironies.
I pay less now for a bit better coverage. But yeah, I was against the ACA as it WAS NOT Single Payer and did not include a Public option and left the PRIVATE Insurance companies as dictators.
As I have said for years, Obamacare is a Republicans Wet Dream, putting Private Enterprise at the forefront and making them untouchable. Same thing as Romneycare in MA.
I have said this for years, do a search.
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Jezebelle and I have to pay 8400 dollars a year for coverage (price is for both of us). And I haven't been to the doctor since age 8.
Wonder where that 8400 dollars a year goes to? ??? Other people.
:o
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Because, its the only Health Insurance we can really get. I complain because it would save me 8400 dollars to have Single Payer and I would have better coverage.
I am paying in the event of something catastrophic happening, not because I want it. I am also forced to buy it. Its bullshit and a waste of money. Single Payer saves Trillions in the long run, Billions and Billions instantly and offers better comprehensive care.
Insurance at that rate makes ZERO sense for someone like me.
Rates aren't intended to make sense for the individual. Their based upon risk in the pool covered. The guy like you (who hasn't seen a doctor since the age of 8) is covering a frequent flyer, administrative costs, and making sure providing the service is profitable.
I'd like to believe single payer would save money but am not better educated than economics professors who say it'll take $13.9 Trillion in tax increases.
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Is it legal to make people work for welfare?
I have no idea. There was a time you could legally beat your wife or own a slave. Jails are full of people who never harmed a soul but had drugs in their pocket. Legality isn't much of an authority on what's right or wrong.
Most welfare recipients are as unskilled by week 10 as they were in week 1. This improves nothing. Give me a guy for 10 weeks and I'll give you back a heavy diesel mechanic.
For heavy equipment, I mean. I don't mean I propose to overfeed him.
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I thought my wife misunderstood something or miss heard something because she told me the other day that Bernie Sanders wants to do away with regular insurance and have everybody on Medicare not just seniors but everybody. I don't really pay too much attention because I thought maybe it was just something she saw on Facebook. But I watch some of his Townhall tonight and that is exactly his plan. He flat out said he wants to put everyone on Medicare.
What are your guys thoughts on this ?
Sorry stupid speak to text on phone.
^^
It works here in Canada...
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^^
It works here in Canada...
You can have a price system or a queue system. In Canada, it helps that those who have the money and don't want to wait in line can take a trip down South get the work done.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/DD1D79A8-8760-43B3-AD7A-635FD74ECDB2_zpsw2b4na6h.png) (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/thinlizzy21/media/DD1D79A8-8760-43B3-AD7A-635FD74ECDB2_zpsw2b4na6h.png.html)
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Fair point. Everyone's always yapping about the poor or the hard-done-by middle class. Who will speak for the rich?
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I'd like to believe single payer would save money but am not better educated than economics professors who say it'll take $13.9 Trillion in tax increases.
Professors with PhDs in economics are MORONS, you better listen to TA. Just wait until he can tell the difference between a mere article and a peer reviewed study, he will OWN economists with PhDs. 8)
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bernie just announced that he will fund the following if he becomes president:
- forum for Shizzo
- electricity research for Falcon
- government paid BBW parties for kwon and BMC
- dress up tbombz in drag and send him to give some gifts to ISIS
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The oft-cited 2003 journal article (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/22/3/89.full.html) "It's the Prices, Stupid" finds that US healthcare expenditures are significantly higher because providers charge what they will for procedures; evidently, in a single-payer system the government negotiates prices down since it is the one being charged, resulting in lesser expenditures.
Good luck getting any such plan through Congress, or for that matter, past a significant portion of the American population once the plan is demonized as the next encroachment of evil governmental authority.
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Professors with PhDs in economics are MORONS, you better listen to TA. Just wait until he can tell the difference between a mere article and a peer reviewed study, he will OWN economists with PhDs. 8)
Thanks for putting me in my place, enu. :)
I sometimes forget the extent to which TA has supplemented community college with the interwebz.
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Professors with PhDs in economics are MORONS, you better listen to TA. Just wait until he can tell the difference between a mere article and a peer reviewed study, he will OWN economists with PhDs. 8)
Nice lie to throw up without data so morons like drkaje can pretend they are true.
Again, do you want the studies or not because when I post them, your only response will be "copy and paste" like the true moron that you and others are.
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I have no idea. There was a time you could legally beat your wife or own a slave. Jails are full of people who never harmed a soul but had drugs in their pocket. Legality isn't much of an authority on what's right or wrong.
Most welfare recipients are as unskilled by week 10 as they were in week 1. This improves nothing. Give me a guy for 10 weeks and I'll give you back a heavy diesel mechanic.
For heavy equipment, I mean. I don't mean I propose to overfeed him.
great post
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great post
Thanks. It's all part of my Tutor A 'Brew Initiative.
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Nice lie to throw up without data so morons like drkaje can pretend they are true.
Again, do you want the studies or not because when I post them, your only response will be "copy and paste" like the true moron that you and others are.
Meltdown
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Meltdown
Nope. The fact is you are too dumb, like most on here, to seek out relevant information. No wonder why facts are scary things to you.
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Nope. The fact is you are too dumb, like most on here, to seek out relevant information. No wonder why facts are scary things to you.
Well, actually I do know how to seek out relevant information. And I do know how to distinguish between articles and peer reviewed studies, unlike you. The fact that you confuse the two doesn't make you look very "smart". :(
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Well, actually I do know how to seek out relevant information. And I do know how to distinguish between articles and peer reviewed studies, unlike you. The fact that you confuse the two doesn't make you look very "smart". :(
::)
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Nice lie to throw up without data so morons like drkaje can pretend they are true.
seriously--why are you such a slave to data?
just stop it
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It is. In NC they just started that with Food Stamps. You either have to have a job or you can volunteer. I don't really agree with it, but its legal.
Food stamps will soon require 20 hours of work or classes in NC
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article53894400.html#storylink=cpy
Food stamp recipients in North Carolina soon will lose benefits unless they prove they’re working, volunteering or taking classes for at least 20 hours a week.
That federal requirement – which applies to adults under 50 who don’t have children – was suspended in 2008 as the recession hit and unemployment rates rose. But the exemption ended Jan. 1 for 23 mostly urban counties across the state, including Wake, Durham and Mecklenburg.
While the 77 other counties are seeing a slower economic recovery and could continue the federal exemption, the state legislature acted last year to restore the work and education requirement statewide starting July 1.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article53894400.html#storylink=cpy
It's possible you misunderstood the question posed to tapeworm. He wrote about welfare being given unconditionally. The foodstamp requirements aren't what I meant. People get around that by popping out more kids and other means.
I meant it in the most literal ("Here's an area of the city you're going to be sweeping and picking up garbage daily to get welfare") sense.
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seriously--why are you such a slave to data?
just stop it
::)
Yes, lets just become a faith based society. Fuck facts.
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i didn't mention anything about "faith" or "organized religion"
I know a lot of atheists/agnostics who have sincere opinions
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It's possible you misunderstood the question posed to tapeworm. He wrote about welfare being given unconditionally. The foodstamp requirements aren't what I meant. People get around that by popping out more kids and other means.
I meant it in the most literal ("Here's an area of the city you're going to be sweeping and picking up garbage daily to get welfare") sense.
I wouldn't give anything - food stamps, welfare money, a pair of secondhand fucking socks - without requiring something. If they have kids to look after, I'd provide daycare (boom - a job for someone). Just getting people into the habit of organizing their life around work is step 1.
Ideally, I'd mix picking up trash type jobs with training for jobs that are more interesting and pay a whole lot more than welfare. If a program paved that road for people and gave them a hard kick in the ass to start down it, I reckon most people would make a genuine effort because they'd see a way to build a good life. At the moment, no one sees that possibility. Having a halfway decent job and getting treated with some respect is so far out of reach for welfare people that it might as well be fantasy, so everyone says fuck it. Show them a way to it - have a nice car, a nice place, women are suddenly friendlier - and you'll see some very motivated individuals. Not everyone but most.
So to be clear, I wouldn't give anyone jack shit for free. At the same time, I wouldn't be making people pick up trash, clean public toilets, and scrub graffiti for the rest of their lives with no way out (although they will damn well do it if they're told to or they can go home and eat a plate of grass). Very strong emphasis on career counseling and training.
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Jezebelle and I have to pay 8400 dollars a year for coverage (price is for both of us). And I haven't been to the doctor since age 8.
Wonder where that 8400 dollars a year goes to? ??? Other people.
Why are you paying so much? Obamacare should be much cheaper, as well as other options. Are you paying for kids? ???
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Why are you paying so much? Obamacare should be much cheaper, as well as other options. Are you paying for kids? ???
Can't get Obamacare due to income. Not interested in having children ever.
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i didn't mention anything about "faith" or "organized religion"
I know a lot of atheists/agnostics who have sincere opinions
As do I, obviously.
::)
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I've been inflicting my opinions on others for years.
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As do I, obviously.
::)
with all due respect but you're a huge "copy-paster", bro
nothing personal...
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(http://www.tshirtvortex.net/wp-content/uploads/onlikealderaan.jpg)
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with all due respect but you're a huge "copy-paster", bro
nothing personal...
Yeah, when my arguments need to be backed up by these things called facts.
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with all due respect but you're a huge "copy-paster", bro
nothing personal...
Do you perceive C&P posts to be from people who haven't put enough thought into a position to formulate an opinion they can articulate?
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Can't get Obamacare due to income. Not interested in having children ever.
Your employer doesn't provide you coverage? ???
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Do you perceive C&P posts to be from people who haven't put enough thought into a position to formulate an opinion they can articulate?
Only a moron would want an argument based on opinion devoid of facts.
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Only a moron would want an argument based on opinion devoid of facts.
Facts and opinions aren't the same thing. An article supporting any position can be found on-line.
That's why people ask for peer-reviewed articles.
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Facts and opinions aren't the same thing. An article supporting any position can be found on-line.
That's why people ask for peer-reviewed articles.
And thats why I give them. Peer-Reviewed studies are contained in articles and if morons are too dumb to realize this, nothing I can do to help you.
At the end of the day, you and others have to live with their own stupidity. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
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There's nothing at all wrong with the way TA argues. If someone thinks he's putting up false information, then there's your perfect opportunity to show it is wrong. From what I've seen. he puts up fact-based information and not BS opinion pieces from far-flung sources, as so many others do.
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I want Bernie Sanders to promise that the US Government will buy a Jaguar for Vince Goodrum!
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Okay.... Read the 1991 report (based upon the Canadian system) containing information drawn from individual state studies. If the state studies are peer reviewed and in published in neutral journals I'd give them some weight.
I support the single payer system, for different reasons. My issue is with everyone coming up with wild numbers on both sides and pretending there won't be a tax increase.
Other obligations (and boredom) won't allow going through the other studies listed on the website posted above.
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Okay.... Read the 1991 report (based upon the Canadian system) containing information drawn from individual state studies. If the state studies are peer reviewed and in published in neutral journals I'd give them some weight.
I support the single payer system, for different reasons. My issue is with everyone coming up with wild numbers on both sides and pretending there won't be a tax increase.
Other obligations (and boredom) won't allow going through the other studies listed on the website posted above.
Bernie is not pretending anything.
He has even created this website to show you how much you would pay/save with numbers you can plug in. The majority of Americans will save more than they will have to pay.
https://berniesanders.com/medicareforall/
http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0
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Bernie is not pretending anything.
He has even created this website to show you how much you would pay/save with numbers you can plug in. The majority of Americans will save more than they will have to pay.
Take a look and play around with it.
http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0
Using the advanced calculator on that website, my tax rate went up 2.2%. :'(
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Using the advanced calculator on that website, my tax rate went up 2.2%. :'(
But you save WAY more on Healthcare which would put more money in your pocket even if your tax rate stayed as it is now.
What numbers did you plug in? You should have got a total savings number.
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Using the advanced calculator on that website, my tax rate went up 2.2%. :'(
Oh, and I call bullshit on your tax rate going up. They only go up 2 percent for people who make 250,001-500,000.
I do not believe you are in the 1.5% of the American population with that income and therefore do not believe you make 250,001-500,000 dollars a year.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca03cz3WwAAWEmT.png:large)
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No working man could possibly support Sanders, what's that tell you?
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No working man could possibly support Sanders, what's that tell you?
Uh, thats where the majority of his support comes from, genius.
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No working man could possibly support Sanders, what's that tell you?
Where Bernie gets the least support are Ages 65 and over and Blacks. Ages 65 and over vote in droves which can be a pain as they want stagnation/status quo.
2 groups who don't work. The rest he pretty much wins.
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(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/02/Ages_Dem.jpg&w=1484)
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Whats this tell you also:
"And, though Mrs. Clinton lost nearly every income group, she did carry voters in families earning over $200,000 per year."
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Fucking unemployed, guilty white apologist (yet racist?) dope.
Kill yourself.
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What do they call someone who goes online spreading info/disinfo about different politicians? Isn't it a shill?
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Fucking unemployed, guilty white apologist (yet racist?) dope.
Kill yourself.
I'm sorry you feel that way and hate data.
Kill yourself you drunken fool.
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Oh, and I call bullshit on your tax rate going up. They only go up 2 percent for people who make 250,001-500,000.
I do not believe you are in the 1.5% of the American population with that income and therefore do not believe you make 250,001-500,000 dollars a year.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca03cz3WwAAWEmT.png:large)
http://valadian.github.io/SandersHealthcareCalculator/
Using the advanced calculator, these are my results:
You will lose: $684.00
Employer saves: $2776.00
Old federal withholding: $15967.50
New federal withholding: $16681.50
Old effective tax rate: 19.4%
New effective tax rate: 21.6%
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I'm sorry you feel that way and hate data.
Kill yourself you drunken fool.
Apologist.
From his site:
"PERPETRATED BY THE STATE
Sandra Bland, Michael Brown, Rekia Boyd, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, Freddie Gray, Jessica Hernandez, Tamir Rice, Jonathan Ferrell, Oscar Grant, Antonio Zambrano-Montes, Samuel DuBose and Anastacio Hernandez-Rojas. We know their names. Each of them died unarmed at the hands of police officers or in police custody. The chants are growing louder. People are angry and they have a right to be angry. We should not fool ourselves into thinking that this violence only affects those whose names have appeared on TV or in the newspaper. African-Americans are twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police. African-American and Latinos comprise well over half of all prisoners, even though African-Americans and Latinos make up approximately one quarter of the total US population."
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http://valadian.github.io/SandersHealthcareCalculator/
Using the advanced calculator, these are my results:
You will lose: $684.00
Employer saves: $2776.00
Old federal withholding: $15967.50
New federal withholding: $16681.50
Old effective tax rate: 19.4%
New effective tax rate: 21.6%
What is the URL to your results? If your employer saves 2776, (presumably your healthcare costs), your paycheck should be higher which offsets the cost. I would have to know the numbers you put in to be accurate on that.
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What is the URL to your results? If your employer saves 2776, (presumably your healthcare costs), your paycheck should be higher which offsets the cost. I would have to know the numbers you put in to be accurate on that.
I will decline to share my personal numbers. So, my employer will give me a raise because of the money they're saving? :D
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I don't believe you make over 250,000 dollars year and are part of the 1.5 percent of Americans that do. I just don't. ;)
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I will decline to share my personal numbers. So, my employer will give me a raise because of the money they're saving? :D
To get those numbers, you are claiming you make in excess of 200,000 dollars a year in income. I was able to get your numbers with that level.
I do not believe you make that much money. I just don't think you are being honest with us.
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I don't believe you make over 250,000 dollars year and are part of the 1.5 percent of Americans that do. I just don't. ;)
You're absolutely correct. I don't make 250,000. That's not what I put in the calculator. I was very detailed with my numbers. I put in my exact wage income, deductions, insurance premiums, copays, deductible, and those are the numbers it gave me. Sorry you have trouble believing it.
Thankfully, my employer is going to give me a raise once they get all their savings. Right?
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To get those numbers, you are claiming you make in excess of 200,000 dollars a year in income. I was able to get your numbers with that level.
I do not believe you make that much money. I just don't think you are being honest with us.
You're still correct. I did not put in 200,000. However, you're 100% incorrect with me being dishonest. The calculator is not very hard to use, and I have not exaggerated any numbers with it.
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You're absolutely correct. I don't make 250,000. That's not what I put in the calculator. I was very detailed with my numbers. I put in my exact wage income, deductions, insurance premiums, copays, deductible, and those are the numbers it gave me. Sorry you have trouble believing it.
Thankfully, my employer is going to give me a raise once they get all their savings. Right?
How should I know, considering you won't even share the numbers of what you put in? You have to have an income of 200,000 plus to get those numbers. I don't buy that for a minute that you make that. Sorry. You would be in the 1.5 percent if you did.
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How should I know, considering you won't even share the numbers of what you put in? You have to have an income of 200,000 plus to get those numbers. I don't buy that for a minute that you make that. Sorry. You would be in the 1.5 percent if you did.
I don't have an income of 200,000. Sorry, you don't believe the results of the calculator.
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I don't have an income of 200,000. Sorry, you don't believe the results of the calculator.
First off, its not even an official calculator and not made by Bernie Sanders website.
Second, even if it is correct, I have no clue what you put in. (I had to put 200,000 plus income and deductions etc.. to arrive at your numbers)
I will just leave this here as this is the median income for the MAJORITY of Americans.
(https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/family.png)
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Bwahahaha owned by your own links.
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Bwahahaha owned by your own links.
Uh, no.
I did not link that. He did. Scroll back through and pay attention.
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Uh, no.
I did not link that. He did. Scroll back through and pay attention.
He did use your link.
Bernie is not pretending anything.
He has even created this website to show you how much you would pay/save. The majority of Americans will save more than they will have to pay.
https://berniesanders.com/medicareforall/
http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0
Using the advanced calculator on that website, my tax rate went up 2.2%. :'(
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He did use your link.
???
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Uh, no.
I did not link that. He did. Scroll back through and pay attention.
I did use the link you posted.
http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0
If you click on that, and go to the bottom, you will find this:
“– But what about employers, capital gains, family leave, ...etc? ”
The main purpose of this calculator is to illustrate as simple as possible how marginal tax brackets work. If you are looking for more exact calculations, go to this site.
Bernie's tax brackets are extrapolated from preliminary numbers released on berniesanders.com. These will likely change.
If you click on "go to this site" it takes you here:
http://valadian.github.io/SandersHealthcareCalculator/
Per the advanced calculator:
Calculated according to Medicare for All PDF Released by Bernie's campaign on 1/17/2016
Here's the "Medicare for All PDF"
https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Medicare-for-All.pdf
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???
Scroll back through and pay attention.
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Not sure what to make of all this. Looks like I will be losing money, but my employer will be cashing in. However, I'm confident they will pass their savings on to me. After all, it would be the ethical thing for them to do. Right? ???
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First off, its not even an official calculator and not made by Bernie Sanders website.
Second, even if it is correct, I have no clue what you put in. (I had to put 200,000 plus income and deductions etc.. to arrive at your numbers)
I will just leave this here as this is the median income for the MAJORITY of Americans.
(https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/family.png)
My wife and I make much more than that, and pay much less than that. :-\
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My wife and I make much more than that, and pay much less than that. :-\
I am only able to get those numbers with 200,000 plus income no matter what I put in, but you state you don't make that.
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You mean join the rest of the Industrialized world and actualyl have a healthcare system that SAVES money and is more efficient.
Why is it we pay MORE per capita per person in the United States but have WORSE outcomes than the rest of the world in terms of Healthcare?
http://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/
U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World
June 17, 2014
The U.S. ranks worst among 11 wealthy nations in terms of “efficiency, equity and outcomes" despite having the world's most expensive health care system
This ^
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I am only able to get those numbers with 200,000 plus income no matter what I put in, but you state you don't make that.
Keep playing with it, maybe you'll figure it out eventually. :-\
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http://valadian.github.io/SandersHealthcareCalculator/
Using the advanced calculator, these are my results:
You will lose: $684.00
Employer saves: $2776.00
Old federal withholding: $15967.50
New federal withholding: $16681.50
Old effective tax rate: 19.4%
New effective tax rate: 21.6%
The above calculations were based off of my 2015 tax return. I went back and input my projected 2016 numbers, and I get the following results:
You will lose: $831.00
Employer saves: $2449.00
Old federal withholding: $17635.00
New federal withholding: $18349.00
Old effective tax rate: 19.9%
New effective tax rate: 22.2%
It appears my tax rate will be going up, I will lose more money, and my employer will still rake in the savings. I'm confident that my employer will pass their savings on to me though. I'm sure it will all work out in the end. :-\
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The above calculations were based off of my 2015 tax return. I went back and input my projected 2016 numbers, and I get the following results:
You will lose: $831.00
Employer saves: $2449.00
Old federal withholding: $17635.00
New federal withholding: $18349.00
Old effective tax rate: 19.9%
New effective tax rate: 22.2%
It appears my tax rate will be going up, I will lose more money, and my employer will still rake in the savings. I'm confident that my employer will pass their savings on to me though. I'm sure it will all work out in the end. :-\
Your employer would no longer have to pay for your insurance or any of your employees insurance individually so it would be savings to them. Single Payer is the most conservative approach when it comes to overall healthcare savings and lowering cost per capita which translates into trillions saved with all money going DIRECTLY to healthcare and nowhere else.
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Your employer would no longer have to pay for your insurance or any of your employees insurance individually so it would be savings to them. Single Payer is the most conservative approach when it comes to overall healthcare savings and lowering cost per capita which translates into trillions saved with all money going DIRECTLY to healthcare and nowhere else.
So, my eemployer benefits from all this, but I lose money? I thought Bernie was for the working man?
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So, my eemployer benefits from all this, but I lose money? I thought Bernie was for the working man?
You would benefit as your healthcare costs would be lower than they are now which offsets the cost of your taxes.
The vast majority of Americans make 75,000 dollars or less a year (84.9 percent of the US population), will see a tax savings.
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You would benefit as your healthcare costs would be lower than they are now which offsets the cost of your taxes.
The vast majority of Americans make 75,000 dollars or less a year (84.9 percent of the US population), will see a tax savings.
I guess that doesn't pertain to me. Hmm. :-\
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I guess that doesn't pertain to me. Hmm. :-\
You must be elite and not the working class then. In the top 15 percent or above, which can afford a slight increase which will SAVE you or your employer instantly and a lot in the long run.
But yeah, for the overwhelming vast majority of the US population 85 percent, they will actually have more money in their pocket come tax time as a result.
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Mrs. Clinton has 502 delegates to Mr. Sanders’s 70.
Do I need to embed a source, or include a works cited?
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You must be elite and not the working class then. In the top 15 percent or above, which can afford a slight increase which will SAVE you or your employer instantly and a lot in the long run.
But yeah, for the overwhelming vast majority of the US population 85 percent, they will actually have more money in their pocket come tax time as a result.
Affordable is a highly subjective term, LOL!
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Mrs. Clinton has 502 delegates to Mr. Sanders’s 70.
Do I need to embed a source, or include a works cited?
sanders need to win every remaining election with 55% to overcome this delegate lead.
it's maddening, a total mockery.
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After playing with the MedicareForAll calculator last night, I'm not so sure Uncle Bernie has my best interests in mind. It appears I would have to reduce my income by over $20,000 in order not to lose any money. However, I was planning on promoting within my company in the next 2 years, plus I receive contract raises yearly. I guess my only solution would be to start "tax sheltering" a good portion of my income.
After giving this much thought, I'm just not convinced that Uncle Bernie is the right candidate for me.
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After playing with the MedicareForAll calculator last night, I'm not so sure Uncle Bernie has my best interests in mind. It appears I would have to reduce my income by over $20,000 in order not to lose any money. However, I was planning on promoting within my company in the next 2 years, plus I receive contract raises yearly. I guess my only solution would be to start "tax sheltering" a good portion of my income.
After giving this much thought, I'm just not convinced that Uncle Bernie is the right candidate for me.
You could take a job at Lowes to offset state and federal taxes.
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You could take a job at Lowes to offset state and federal taxes.
I'm giving this great consideration. It appears that my wife and I make too much money, and Uncle Bernie want's to take it and give it to the poor. Kind of like Robinhood if you will. So Berniehood wants my money. The only way I can legally prevent him from taking it would be to tax shelter it, or reduce my income. Tax sheltering seems very unethical, so that only leaves me one option. Either my wife or I will have to quit our job.
I'm trying to look at the bright side though. After I quit my job, I will have more time to invest in other ventures. IE, staying at home, playing video games, and posting on getbig. :D
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I'm giving this great consideration. It appears that my wife and I make too much money, and Uncle Bernie want's to take it and give it to the poor. Kind of like Robinhood if you will. So Berniehood wants my money. The only way I can legally prevent him from taking it would be to tax shelter it, or reduce my income. Tax sheltering seems very unethical, so that only leaves me one option. Either my wife or I will have to quit our job.
I'm trying to look at the bright side though. After I quit my job, I will have more time to invest in other ventures. IE, staying at home, playing video games, and posting on getbig. :D
People can preserve some of their family time.
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(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/474806088-supporters-of-u-s-sen-bernie-sanders-cheer-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QeHcgskncTz3sBhaHbhU3ryC%2BOmHmlQzPgz07X6tJZ7JJ0lH3duWHfPXnpajQFSbCA%3D%3D)(https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/gettyimages-476923524-e1436311006761.jpg?w=575)(http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/484300098-supporters-cheer-as-sen-bernie-sanders-d-vt-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXuN8%2BzesoX8VPEXn%2F%2Fp4bHL8vOzT2uV5l9zfP5nf9KCNwJ6ZJRyq1SWIjHTNvmtp0B%2BN%2FxCyxDkFSxBhr595Egw%3D)(http://i0.wp.com/www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/berniesupporter.jpg?resize=860%2C528)(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/02/02-bernie-sanders-2.w529.h352.jpg)(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/w8luTLY1Rvef2uDL6nLclw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjAwO2g9NjAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w600/9f623a6fdf654500a79f4cc21b230dfa2d0f53e9.jpg)
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sanders need to win every remaining election with 55% to overcome this delegate lead.
it's maddening, a total mockery.
Superdelegates always switch to whoever wins the most pledged delegates at the end so that is not a requirement to win every primary with 55 percent.
Clinton and Bernie are tied with 51 pledged delegates each as they head to South Carolina.
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I'm giving this great consideration. It appears that my wife and I make too much money, and Uncle Bernie want's to take it and give it to the poor. Kind of like Robinhood if you will. So Berniehood wants my money. The only way I can legally prevent him from taking it would be to tax shelter it, or reduce my income. Tax sheltering seems very unethical, so that only leaves me one option. Either my wife or I will have to quit our job.
I'm trying to look at the bright side though. After I quit my job, I will have more time to invest in other ventures. IE, staying at home, playing video games, and posting on getbig. :D
I thought you weren't in the top 1.5 percent of income earners.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca03cz3WwAAWEmT.png)
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I thought you weren't in the top 1.5 percent of income earners.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca03cz3WwAAWEmT.png)
I'm not, that chart is not accurate at all. It does not take into consideration many other variables. Such as itemized deductions, insurance premiums, copays, deductibles, etc. You need to stop posting that lame chart. It is a complete misrepresentation.
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(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/474806088-supporters-of-u-s-sen-bernie-sanders-cheer-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QeHcgskncTz3sBhaHbhU3ryC%2BOmHmlQzPgz07X6tJZ7JJ0lH3duWHfPXnpajQFSbCA%3D%3D)(https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/gettyimages-476923524-e1436311006761.jpg?w=575)(http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/484300098-supporters-cheer-as-sen-bernie-sanders-d-vt-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXuN8%2BzesoX8VPEXn%2F%2Fp4bHL8vOzT2uV5l9zfP5nf9KCNwJ6ZJRyq1SWIjHTNvmtp0B%2BN%2FxCyxDkFSxBhr595Egw%3D)(http://i0.wp.com/www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/berniesupporter.jpg?resize=860%2C528)(http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/02/02-bernie-sanders-2.w529.h352.jpg)(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/w8luTLY1Rvef2uDL6nLclw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjAwO2g9NjAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w600/9f623a6fdf654500a79f4cc21b230dfa2d0f53e9.jpg)
is the girl in the last pic related to DLB?
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It appears that Americans don't have much love for Berniecare if it means they will have to pay more, lose their doctors, or longer wait times. :-\
Poll: The more you know, the less you like 'Berniecare'
In poll, Americans like 'Medicare for all' but not higher taxes, loss of employer coverage
WASHINGTON — At first, many Americans like the idea of "Medicare for all," a cradle-to-grave government-run health system that's a rallying cry for Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders.
But bring up the trade-offs — from higher taxes to giving up employer coverage — and support starts to shrivel.
http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20160225/NEWS/160229668
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It appears that Americans don't have much love for Berniecare if it means they will have to pay more, lose their doctors, or longer wait times. :-\
Poll: The more you know, the less you like 'Berniecare'
In poll, Americans like 'Medicare for all' but not higher taxes, loss of employer coverage
WASHINGTON — At first, many Americans like the idea of "Medicare for all," a cradle-to-grave government-run health system that's a rallying cry for Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders.
But bring up the trade-offs — from higher taxes to giving up employer coverage — and support starts to shrivel.
http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20160225/NEWS/160229668
People at the bottom don't feel it will have any cost to them or unintended consequences. Those desiring a Canadian (for example) system should lay out what it would cost individual taxes, VAT, etc.. so people can make an informed decision. Pretending "it won't cost anything", "it'll save trillions", "there's more than enough money" is stupid.
From their perspective: Universal healthcare is worth whatever costs citizens. Why pretend otherwise.