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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Never1AShow on February 19, 2016, 04:49:47 AM

Title: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 19, 2016, 04:49:47 AM
I hear this all the time, most recently cephisiss in the cereal thread basically saying there's no difference between eating something like Special K cereal versus the same quantity of sugary cereal like Lucky Charms.  The claim is that they do the same to your blood sugar.

I also heard Vinne Tortorich on the Adam Carolla Show saying eating a chocolate bar was better than eating a baked potato because the baked potato has a decent amount more carbs and they do the same to blood sugar.

I get what is being said, but this is far, far from my experience.  Even considering a calorie is a calorie, I think eating the clean carbs is nowhere near as bad for you from a weight loss perspective.

Is there any actual scientific evidence of this, by which I mean studies where various foods are eaten (by healthy people who exercise) and then blood sugar is measured to see the effects?  
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Twaddle on February 19, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
10 grams of carbohydrates (derived from glucose).
10 grams of carbohydrates (derived from fiber).

They are not the same, and have completely different effects on the body.  HTH!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: johnnynoname on February 19, 2016, 04:57:14 AM
I don't know if what I'll say is bro science but when it comes to foods that are primarily looked at as "good fats" like walnuts, natural peanut butter (the legit kind, not the bullshit ones), etc that do have carbs, I tend to think that the carbs attached to these "good fats" should count but they really don't (I think this was a bit of a run on sentence and could have used a comma here and there--someone help me here)

it sounds weird but I think some of you know what I"m talking about

say you eat 300gs of carbs a day but of those 300 like i dunno 50g's of carbs come from the walnuts you consume

you're daily carb intake is still 300gs and your calorie intake from carbs would still be 1200 kcals

however there should be a tacit understanding in your head that of those 300g's only 250g's really count as carbs

is that how the whole "net carbs" thing works?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Waller on February 19, 2016, 05:00:45 AM
A crab is a crab.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: OB1 on February 19, 2016, 05:07:51 AM
10 grams of carbohydrates (derived from glucose).
10 grams of carbohydrates (derived from fiber).

They are not the same, and have completely different effects on the body.  HTH!

Yes, there are simple carbs and complex carbs.
Simple carbs like sugar, fructose or glucose generally "burn" faster with a higher but shorter spike regarding blood sugar..
Complex carbs like oats, potatoes or whole-grain products generally "burn" slower with a consistent higher level but not as high as simple carbs regarding blood sugar.

A calorie is not a calorie.
Only if you take it literally.

A carb is not a carb.


Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Radical Plato on February 19, 2016, 05:10:38 AM
You are forgetting a food is more than just a carb, fat or protein. Their are many other minerals, vitamins and other nutrients essential to peak performance, so it is almost always better to eat so called clean, as opposed to cheating on junk foods.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: BlackMetallic on February 19, 2016, 05:15:12 AM
Read john berardi's article on a carbi is not a carb

hfcs is wicked

Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on February 19, 2016, 05:15:32 AM
Yeah, sure, a tuber from the ground is just as good as a sugary candy bar.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Radical Plato on February 19, 2016, 05:17:20 AM
Yeah, sure, a tuber from the ground is just as good as a sugary candy bar.
lol.  Amazing how when you keep it simple it all makes sense.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: johnnynoname on February 19, 2016, 05:18:40 AM
btw---lets not player hate on junk food here


that shit is the bomb, yo
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: BBSSchlemiel on February 19, 2016, 05:39:06 AM
lol.  Amazing how when you keep it simple it all makes sense.

Yeah!  :)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Never1AShow on February 19, 2016, 06:38:47 AM
10 grams of carbohydrates (derived from glucose).
10 grams of carbohydrates (derived from fiber).

They are not the same, and have completely different effects on the body.  HTH!

This is not exactly what I'm concerned about.  Scientific study or not, I don't think carbs from fibrous things like veggies or even apples affect the body the same as a candy bar.  It seems very logical that the fiber affects digestion and slows absorption.

My question is more about natural starchy kinds of carbs like potatoes or poi or rice.

So far no actual studies cited showing these affect the body differently.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Never1AShow on February 19, 2016, 06:39:58 AM
Yes, there are simple carbs and complex carbs.
Simple carbs like sugar, fructose or glucose generally "burn" faster with a higher but shorter spike regarding blood sugar..
Complex carbs like oats, potatoes or whole-grain products generally "burn" slower with a consistent higher level but not as high as simple carbs regarding blood sugar.

A calorie is not a calorie.
Only if you take it literally.


This is what I've always believed also, just not sure if it is backed up by any study showing those actual effects, much less a study in humans.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Jovo on February 19, 2016, 06:51:48 AM
fiber encapsulates the glucose for example, and this shell takes time for the body to break down before the glucose can be absorbed. Ie: lower glycemic load aswell as more effort by the body to actually utilize the energy , and lets not forget the benefits of fiber
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Twaddle on February 19, 2016, 07:01:25 AM
This is what I've always believed also, just not sure if it is backed up by any study showing those actual effects, much less a study in humans.

Yes, there are literally hundreds of scientific studies performed on various animals.  PubMed has many of them. 
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: _aj_ on February 19, 2016, 09:39:36 AM
<TrueAdonis>
You're all idiots
</TrueAdonis>
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Mr Anabolic on February 19, 2016, 09:43:54 AM
Sucrose/glucose not the same as complex/fibrous carbs.

Anyone who believes they are the same is a moronic fucktard.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 09:44:47 AM
Carbs, protein and fats all work the same way.

Lets say you want to ingest 200 grams of protein. It doesnt matter where the 200 grams come from. If I eat 15 slices of cake to get 200 grams of protein, that is the same as eating 5 chicken breasts to get 200 grams of protein. Your body doesnt know where the protein is coming from.

The same with carbs. If you need to ingest 100 grams of carbs, you can get those carbs from anywhere.

The point being is that as long as you dont go passed what your body needs, you're fine.

/thread
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Nails on February 19, 2016, 09:51:32 AM
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=346726.0;attach=381384;image)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Man of Steel on February 19, 2016, 09:55:43 AM
carbs are delicious
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 19, 2016, 10:02:47 AM
Yes, there are simple carbs and complex carbs.
Simple carbs like sugar, fructose or glucose generally "burn" faster with a higher but shorter spike regarding blood sugar..
Complex carbs like oats, potatoes or whole-grain products generally "burn" slower with a consistent higher level but not as high as simple carbs regarding blood sugar.

A calorie is not a calorie.
Only if you take it literally.

A carb is not a carb.




A case can be made that complex carbs are worse than the simple, as the reason complex carbs are "slow burning" is because they are harder to digest.

Carbs are primarily for anaerobic activities. Slow burning energy is the function of fat.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: OB1 on February 19, 2016, 10:16:46 AM
Carbs, protein and fats all work the same way.

Lets say you want to ingest 200 grams of protein. It doesnt matter where the 200 grams come from. If I eat 15 slices of cake to get 200 grams of protein, that is the same as eating 5 chicken breasts to get 200 grams of protein. Your body doesnt know where the protein is coming from.

The same with carbs. If you need to ingest 100 grams of carbs, you can get those carbs from anywhere.

The point being is that as long as you dont go passed what your body needs, you're fine.

/thread



A carb is not a carb.
A calorie is not a calorie.

A calorie breaks down basically into protein, carbs and fat or any combination of these.

Protein breaks down into complete protein sources (which contain all 9 essential amino acids, mostly animal protein),
and incomplete protein sources (which don't contain all 9 essential amino acids, mostly plant protein).
Incomplete protein sources can be combined to form a complete protein source though.

Carbs, as already previously mentioned break down into complex carbs and simple carbs which have completely different effects on the body.

Fat breaks down into saturated fat and unsaturated fat where unsaturated fat, especially poly-unsatured fat (such as high quality vegetable oil) is to prefer.


Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: funk51 on February 19, 2016, 10:24:51 AM
cake=shake as per  dr c f smith... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: ritch on February 19, 2016, 11:19:19 AM
Carbs, protein and fats all work the same way.

Lets say you want to ingest 200 grams of protein. It doesnt matter where the 200 grams come from. If I eat 15 slices of cake to get 200 grams of protein, that is the same as eating 5 chicken breasts to get 200 grams of protein. Your body doesnt know where the protein is coming from.

The same with carbs. If you need to ingest 100 grams of carbs, you can get those carbs from anywhere.

The point being is that as long as you dont go passed what your body needs, you're fine.

/thread

 ::)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: wes on February 19, 2016, 01:32:25 PM
Another bullshit thread here on getbig!   :D
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: wes on February 19, 2016, 01:33:11 PM
Dieting on donuts just doesn`t get you ripped.


Please,no calorie is a calorie replies wanted.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: lilhawk1 on February 19, 2016, 01:36:00 PM
Carbs, protein and fats all work the same way.

Lets say you want to ingest 200 grams of protein. It doesnt matter where the 200 grams come from. If I eat 15 slices of cake to get 200 grams of protein, that is the same as eating 5 chicken breasts to get 200 grams of protein. Your body doesnt know where the protein is coming from.

The same with carbs. If you need to ingest 100 grams of carbs, you can get those carbs from anywhere.

The point being is that as long as you dont go passed what your body needs, you're fine.

/thread

So one could diet for a contest on nothing my but ice cream and still get shredded?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: dseiler on February 19, 2016, 01:47:41 PM
So one could diet for a contest on nothing my but ice cream and still get shredded?

Ask Mentzer. He knows.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: drkaje on February 19, 2016, 02:55:57 PM
Yes, there are literally hundreds of scientific studies performed on various animals.  PubMed has many of them. 

Science can't compete with the wisdom of GetBiggers.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Twaddle on February 19, 2016, 03:07:05 PM
Science can't compete with the wisdom of GetBiggers.

I'm beginning to understand.   :-\
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Explorerspl on February 19, 2016, 03:30:28 PM
In terms of dieting down if you are getting enough protein and cals to maintain muscle mass, and you're in a calorie deficit in total, how would you look any worse? Science says you would lose fat and maintain muscle not get fat in a calorie deficit because you are eating too much sugar and its spiking your insulin(which is fucking retarded to worry about on a BB forum where the main drug used in the sport is insulin)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like lettuce and cucumbers.
Post by: Never1AShow on February 19, 2016, 03:30:57 PM

Carbs, as already previously mentioned break down into complex carbs and simple carbs which have completely different effects on the body.


This is basically the issue.  Says who regarding complex v. simple.  Many say it affects the body the same.  Sugar is sugar, calorie is calorie.  I don't believe it but many do.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like lettuce and cucumbers.
Post by: ritch on February 19, 2016, 03:44:03 PM
This is basically the issue.  Says who regarding complex v. simple.  Many say it affects the body the same.  Sugar is sugar, calorie is calorie.  I don't believe it but many do.

 ::)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: _aj_ on February 19, 2016, 04:40:13 PM
In terms of dieting down if you are getting enough protein and cals to maintain muscle mass, and you're in a calorie deficit in total, how would you look any worse? Science says you would lose fat and maintain muscle not get fat in a calorie deficit because you are eating too much sugar and its spiking your insulin(which is fucking retarded to worry about on a BB forum where the main drug used in the sport is insulin)

N00b nutritional meltdown.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: lilhawk1 on February 19, 2016, 05:44:01 PM
In terms of dieting down if you are getting enough protein and cals to maintain muscle mass, and you're in a calorie deficit in total, how would you look any worse? Science says you would lose fat and maintain muscle not get fat in a calorie deficit because you are eating too much sugar and its spiking your insulin(which is fucking retarded to worry about on a BB forum where the main drug used in the sport is insulin)

Don't even have a response for this. 
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Explorerspl on February 19, 2016, 06:05:22 PM
N00b nutritional meltdown.

Don't even have a response for this. 


Probably because you are both old and stuck in your old ways. Unless you are dieting down to contest shape there won't be a difference besides health. I don't see how you think with adequate protein and staying in a deficit that  having a candy bar a few times a week instead of potatoes will make a difference in fat loss.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 10:38:13 PM


A carb is not a carb.
A calorie is not a calorie.

A calorie breaks down basically into protein, carbs and fat or any combination of these.

Protein breaks down into complete protein sources (which contain all 9 essential amino acids, mostly animal protein),
and incomplete protein sources (which don't contain all 9 essential amino acids, mostly plant protein).
Incomplete protein sources can be combined to form a complete protein source though.

Carbs, as already previously mentioned break down into complex carbs and simple carbs which have completely different effects on the body.

Fat breaks down into saturated fat and unsaturated fat where unsaturated fat, especially poly-unsatured fat (such as high quality vegetable oil) is to prefer.




True Adonis said a calorie is just a calorie.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 10:39:09 PM
::)


You can eat anything you want, as long as you dont consume more calories than your body needs. Look at Goodrums physique.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 10:41:08 PM
So one could diet for a contest on nothing my but ice cream and still get shredded?

Pretty much. "All that matters is that you dont consume more calories than what your body needs." True Adonis

For example, if your body needs 2000 calories to thrive, and you take in more than 2000 calories, than you will put on body fat.

However, if you eat only 1,999 calories of ice cream, you can still get shredded because you have no exceeded your caloric intake of 2000.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: OB1 on February 19, 2016, 10:46:19 PM
True Adonis said a calorie is just a calorie.

Taken literally this might be true.
But in reality not all calories are created equal.


Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 10:49:13 PM
Taken literally this might be true.
But in reality not all calories are created equal.




Ill send True Adonis a message about this and see what his response is.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 19, 2016, 10:52:07 PM
Carbs, protein and fats all work the same way.

Lets say you want to ingest 200 grams of protein. It doesnt matter where the 200 grams come from. If I eat 15 slices of cake to get 200 grams of protein, that is the same as eating 5 chicken breasts to get 200 grams of protein. Your body doesnt know where the protein is coming from.

The same with carbs. If you need to ingest 100 grams of carbs, you can get those carbs from anywhere.

The point being is that as long as you dont go passed what your body needs, you're fine.

/thread

lol
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Coach is Back! on February 19, 2016, 10:54:19 PM
True Adonis said a calorie is just a calorie.

"True Adonis said" lmao
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: OB1 on February 19, 2016, 10:58:59 PM
Ill send True Adonis a message about this and see what his response is.

I doubt anyone would be interested in said response.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 10:59:04 PM
Another bullshit thread here on getbig!   :D

Quiet, Jedi Elf!!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 19, 2016, 11:00:03 PM
I doubt anyone would be interested in said response.


 ??? ??? ???

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=590220.0

She states, "It doesn't matter if you fill your macros with 10 oreos or 5 gallons of brocolli. As long as you are eating based on your body composition and goals, you can maintain your body and build muscle while gaining minimal fat. Your body doesn't differentiate a slice of pizza from a salad with meat, cheese, dressing, and croutons  (which can have the same macros).
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: OB1 on February 19, 2016, 11:42:53 PM
??? ??? ???

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=590220.0

She states, "It doesn't matter if you fill your macros with 10 oreos or 5 gallons of brocolli. As long as you are eating based on your body composition and goals, you can maintain your body and build muscle while gaining minimal fat. Your body doesn't differentiate a slice of pizza from a salad with meat, cheese, dressing, and croutons  (which can have the same macros).


Apart from this being utter nonsense she doesn't mention anything about carbs.

Let her eat only pizza for one month.
Then only salad with meat, cheese, dressing and croutons the next month.
Let's see if she will still say it's the same.

I doubt it.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2016, 12:15:45 AM

Apart from this being utter nonsense she doesn't mention anything about carbs.

Let her eat only pizza for one month.
Then only salad with meat, cheese, dressing and croutons the next month.
Let's see if she will still say it's the same.

I doubt it.



I think youre missing the point.

By saying "macros" they are including carbohydrates (a macro-nutrient)
The claim is you WILL be the same if your macronutrients (carb/fat/prot) and calories are what youve intended them to be, regardless of the source.

Ive done IIFYM, Keto, Atkins, raw/vegan, pea protein, bb diet, etc.  my body reacts best to extrmemly low carbohydrates (and most likely kcals) and exogenous testosterone
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 12:28:48 AM
The claim is you WILL be the same if your macronutrients (carb/fat/prot) and calories are what youve intended them to be, regardless of the source.

Of course...
but it's wrong to go just by carbs/fat/protein alone.

There are different types which have completely different effects on the body.
Some of them you might want to avoid.

For example:
Carbs break down into simple carbs and complex carbs.
Fat breaks down into saturated fat and unsaturated fat which breaks down into monounsaturated fat and polyunsaturated fat.
Protein breaks down into complete and incomplete protein.

It's just not all the same.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: ritch on February 20, 2016, 01:29:29 AM
You can eat anything you want, as long as you dont consume more calories than your body needs. Look at Goodrums physique.

Well, seems I stand corrected!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 06:32:33 AM
So far all bro science, except one person said there are articles on Pubmed (which I have no idea about).  Not one single study linked to backing up any of these claims that starchy carbs like a potato or rice are any better or worse than a candy bar.  No study showing any human beings ever having had any of these bro science claims tested by actual scientific method.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 06:38:49 AM
So far all bro science, except one person said there are articles on Pubmed (which I have no idea about).  Not one single study linked to backing up any of these claims that starchy carbs like a potato or rice are any better or worse than a candy bar.  No study showing any human beings ever having had any of these bro science claims tested by actual scientific method.

You can never be sure.
Unless you try it for yourself.
Which is what I suggest.

1 month candy bars only.
1 month potatoes only.

Feel the difference.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Twaddle on February 20, 2016, 06:59:50 AM
So far all bro science, except one person said there are articles on Pubmed (which I have no idea about).  Not one single study linked to backing up any of these claims that starchy carbs like a potato or rice are any better or worse than a candy bar.  No study showing any human beings ever having had any of these bro science claims tested by actual scientific method.

Go to PubMed.  Register an account.  There are literally hundreds if not thousands of scientific studies on the topic of different sugar intakes and the effects on the mammalian class.  Not bro science, real science.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 20, 2016, 08:20:59 AM
Go to PubMed.  Register an account.  There are literally hundreds if not thousands of scientific studies on the topic of different sugar intakes and the effects on the mammalian class.  Not bro science, real science.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

I'll bet most of them conclude with the disclaimer, "Further research needs to be done." Truth be told, most studies are useless, as the authors can't go more than a sentence without citing someone else's work. It's as though no one has an original thought!

And I still haven't seen anyone respond to what I believe is an valid question: what makes slow burning carbs burn slowly? I contend it's because they aren't easily digested.

With regard to "how you feel" question, I feel much healthier when I limit grains.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Simple Simon on February 20, 2016, 08:34:40 AM
I'll bet most of them conclude with the disclaimer, "Further research needs to be done." Truth be told, most studies are useless, as the authors can't go more than a sentence without citing someone else's work. It's as though no one has an original thought!

And I still haven't seen anyone respond to what I believe is an valid question: what makes slow burning carbs burn slowly? I contend it's because they aren't easily digested.

With regard to "how you feel" question, I feel much healthier when I limit grains.
if thats true then sweetcorn is the slowest burning of all.
Its down to the molecular build up of the carb, carbs made up of simple sugars are broken down much faster.
Eat a candy bar and watch your veins blow up, eat a potato and watch nothing happen.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 08:37:21 AM
You can never be sure.
Unless you try it for yourself.
Which is what I suggest.

1 month candy bars only.
1 month potatoes only.

Feel the difference.


Set it up
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 08:41:25 AM
Go to PubMed.  Register an account.  There are literally hundreds if not thousands of scientific studies on the topic of different sugar intakes and the effects on the mammalian class.  Not bro science, real science.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

I'm no expert nor scientist, but apparently some here are.  How about someone posting just one showing the actual blood sugar effect of a potato or rice or some no fibrous complex carb v. Plain sugar on something more complex than a mouse.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 08:51:00 AM
Set it up


I know the difference.
It was you criticizing everything.
Therefore my suggestion to simply try it out.

It's the most reliable way.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Yamcha on February 20, 2016, 08:54:09 AM
something more complex than a mouse.

(http://media.tumblr.com/74a3021c0fbf2a5f10eae4e51e2a2d01/tumblr_mx68kxSpMA1skyr7eo4_400.gif)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 08:59:21 AM
I'm no expert nor scientist, but apparently some here are.  How about someone posting just one showing the actual blood sugar effect of a potato or rice or some no fibrous complex carb v. Plain sugar on something more complex than a mouse.


Like I already mentioned you can gain first-hand experience using your own body.
It can't get more reliable.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 09:09:27 AM

I know the difference.
It was you criticizing everything.
Therefore my suggestion to simply try it out.

It's the most reliable way.

That was a joke, son!  Based on your 1 month of potatoes only.  I think it'd be different but don't care enough to do something so drastic for 2 months.  Still bro science if no one has actually done it and written up a scientific study.  Have you ever done it?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb
Post by: SF1900 on February 20, 2016, 09:16:33 AM

Apart from this being utter nonsense she doesn't mention anything about carbs.

Let her eat only pizza for one month.
Then only salad with meat, cheese, dressing and croutons the next month.
Let's see if she will still say it's the same.

I doubt it.



She seems to be on point with her physique, and backs the principles put forth by True Adonis.

What more evidence do you need to support the claim that "a calorie is just a calorie?"
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: TTfit on February 20, 2016, 09:17:56 AM
Can not believe people still think a "calorie is a calorie" or a "carb is a carb".

It's simple....go eat 2500 cals of straight chocolate and potato chips for one month. Then do the same with 2500 calories of rice and veggies. Tell me if you still believe a carb is a carb.  ::)

And before TA comes in here with his "wisdom" remember he lies out of his sloppy asshole all the time to troll. And the only pics he posts are from ten years back.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Yamcha on February 20, 2016, 09:19:37 AM
I'd love to eat a carton of Ice Cream everyday. That's about 2500 - 3000 kcals, depending on flavor.
Think I can get ripped doing it? I'll just switch to frozen yogurt to cut calories, when needed.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: SF1900 on February 20, 2016, 09:20:15 AM
Can not believe people still think a "calorie is a calorie" or a "carb is a carb".

It's simple....go eat 2500 cals of straight chocolate and potato chips for one month. Then do the same with 2500 calories of rice and veggies. Tell me if you still believe a carb is a carb.  ::)

And before TA comes in here with his "wisdom" remember he lies out of his sloppy asshole all the time to troll. And the only pics he posts are from ten years back.

TA is a man of respect and integrity.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 09:28:45 AM
That was a joke, son!  Based on your 1 month of potatoes only.  I think it'd be different but don't care enough to do something so drastic for 2 months.  Still bro science if no one has actually done it and written up a scientific study.  Have you ever done it?

Afaik I am not part of your family and I am not sure if I would want to.
Now that we cleared up the relationship part let me tell you every "study", etc. is worthless.

Why?
First of all most "studies" are done with a specific motivation in mind.
Others even are plain out lies to promote a product for example or to promote other lies which were created to manipulate people.
Of course there are reliable studies also but they are in the minority.

Second, any "knowledge" you may have acquired from outside sources is basically worthless in itself.

Why?
If something has not been experienced by yourself it will be blind belief only...
It will not be reliable.

Therefore...
if you really want to know there is no other option than trying it out yourself.

I have experience regarding carbs otherwise I wouldn't have posted anything about it.
Sadly that won't help you one bit.
Just like some study won't help you one bit.

The only thing that will bring you a step further regarding this matter is personal experience.

Set it up, son.
 ;D


 
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: ritch on February 20, 2016, 10:59:46 AM
Can not believe people still think a "calorie is a calorie" or a "carb is a carb".

It's simple....go eat 2500 cals of straight chocolate and potato chips for one month. Then do the same with 2500 calories of rice and veggies. Tell me if you still believe a carb is a carb.  ::)

And before TA comes in here with his "wisdom" remember he lies out of his sloppy asshole all the time to troll. And the only pics he posts are from ten years back.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"sloppy asshole" ahahahaha....
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 11:00:41 AM
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"sloppy asshole" ahahahaha....

LOL!!!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Disgusted on February 20, 2016, 03:45:56 PM
 There is no nutritionally value in pure fat carbs or protein.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Simple Simon on February 20, 2016, 03:58:15 PM
There is no nutritionally value in pure fat carbs or protein.
So ,  amino acids have no nutritional value?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Disgusted on February 20, 2016, 04:04:53 PM
So ,  amino acids have no nutritional value?

Nope and now you may ( but I doubt) be understanding what I am talking about. Eat nothing but amino acids olive oil and glucose tabs for a few weeks. Make sure to get your minimum calories and see what happens.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Simple Simon on February 20, 2016, 04:15:26 PM
Nope and now you may ( but I doubt) be understanding what I am talking about. Eat nothing but amino acids olive oil and glucose tabs for a few weeks. Make sure to get your minimum calories and see what happens.
That doesn't equate to them having no nutritional value.
Protein contains amino acids, amino acids contain nutritional value, as such your statement claiming protein has no nutritional value is incorrect.
Not only do amino acids have nutritional value they are essential for life, without them you would not survive.

Your analogy is like saying vitamins have no nutritional value, just take a multivit and drink olive oil and glucose tabs, its dumb.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: cephissus on February 20, 2016, 04:15:29 PM
if thats true then sweetcorn is the slowest burning of all.
Its down to the molecular build up of the carb, carbs made up of simple sugars are broken down much faster.
Eat a candy bar and watch your veins blow up, eat a potato and watch nothing happen.

i eat a candy bar and a potato and check my glucometer and the reading is the same
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Simple Simon on February 20, 2016, 04:16:12 PM
i eat a candy bar and a potato and check my glucometer and the reading is the same
and it comes as no surprise to me that you own a glucometer.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Disgusted on February 20, 2016, 04:26:53 PM
That doesn't equate to them having no nutritional value.
Protein contains amino acids, amino acids contain nutritional value, as such your statement claiming protein has no nutritional value is incorrect.
Not only do amino acids have nutritional value they are essential for life, without them you would not survive.

Your analogy is like saying vitamins have no nutritional value, just take a multivit and drink olive oil and glucose tabs, its dumb.

Macros in their pure form can not sustain life. All this talk about a carb is a carb it pointless and everyone is missing the point.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: cephissus on February 20, 2016, 04:27:11 PM
and it comes as no surprise to me that you own a glucometer.

and ???

glucose area under curve for 2hr window:

potatoes: 148
mars bar: 98

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tMgToYs_oYc/S8e7ie5pzdI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/HTi6-GA9y_k/s1600/Holt_etal_1997_T04a.PNG)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tMgToYs_oYc/S8e7mKwsHHI/AAAAAAAAAKE/A7H1Y2jDQPk/s1600/Holt_etal_1997_T04b.PNG)

you're wrong
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: cephissus on February 20, 2016, 04:31:22 PM
Macros in their pure form can not sustain life. All this talk about a carb is a carb it pointless and everyone is missing the point.

what point is that? ???

that you don't know what the word "nutrient" means?

Quote
nu·tri·ent
ˈn(y)o͞otrēənt/
noun
noun: nutrient; plural noun: nutrients

    a substance that provides nourishment essential for growth and the maintenance of life.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Simple Simon on February 20, 2016, 04:31:35 PM
Macros in their pure form can not sustain life. All this talk about a carb is a carb it pointless and everyone is missing the point.
Protein in its purest form contains amino acids, without amino acids its not a protein.
Protein consists of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen.
The addition of nitrogen gives protein its unique distinction from carbohydrate and fat, along with establishing the signature name, amino acid.
So, protein has nutritional value.

I know what you are getting at but you shouldn't make sweeping statements.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 20, 2016, 04:43:26 PM
All this talk about a carb is a carb it pointless and everyone is missing the point.

Of course we miss the point when it's pointless...

But I agree.
It's the same bullshit like "a calorie is a calorie".
Nevertheless it's fun to discuss anyway.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Disgusted on February 20, 2016, 04:44:38 PM
Protein in its purest form contains amino acids, without amino acids its not a protein.
Protein consists of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen.
The addition of nitrogen gives protein its unique distinction from carbohydrate and fat, along with establishing the signature name, amino acid.
So, protein has nutritional value.

I know what you are getting at but you shouldn't make sweeping statements.


So you think all one have to do is take a vitamin with their aminos and olive oil ? By all means try it. When someone says a carb is a carb (which are not essential ) they are right. A carb in and of itself can't be anything but a carb. Now the difference is what foods are you eating to get your carbs. Lots of plant foods contain an abundance of nutrients that we so vitally need. So it's not the carb but the source of where the carb is coming that sustains us. It all breaks down into glucose. Fiber glycemic index amount of sugars insulin response is what ages us prematurely and ruins our health. I'd rather have they vital nutrients in the plant food than the carbs but it's not possible since we are still identifying mico nutrients that we need to live a healthy life.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: cephissus on February 20, 2016, 04:49:54 PM

So you think all one have to do is take a vitamin with their aminos and olive oil ? By all means try it.

have you tried it?  if not, why are you so quick to think it won't work?

Quote
When someone says a carb is a carb (which are not essential ) they are right. A carb in and of itself can't be anything but a carb. Now the difference is what foods are you eating to get your carbs. Lots of plant foods contain an abundance of nutrients that we so vitally need. So it's not the carb but the source of where the carb is coming that sustains us.

Such as?

Quote
It all breaks down into glucose. Fiber glycemic index amount of sugars insulin response is what ages us prematurely and ruins our health.

Interesting how beef, eggs, and cheese illicit similar total insulin response to pasta, rice, and french fries.  Guess we're all gonna be fucked by insulin.

Quote
I'd rather have they vital nutrients in the plant food than the carbs but it's not possible since we are still identifying mico nutrients that we need to live a healthy life.

How do you know the vitality of these "nutrients" when they haven't even been "identified"?

???
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: ritch on February 20, 2016, 04:56:19 PM
Cephius should be an advisor to the pro's he seems to know so much about how REAL LIFE top bodies eat.
 ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: cephissus on February 20, 2016, 05:01:03 PM
Cephius should be an advisor to the pro's he seems to know so much about how REAL LIFE top bodies eat.
 ::) ::) ::)



how could anyone not?  they post virtually everything they do on youtube, instagram, etc.

i'm just questioning what people believe.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2016, 06:53:04 PM
Second, any "knowledge" you may have acquired from outside sources is basically worthless in itself.

Why?
If something has not been experienced by yourself it will be blind belief only...
It will not be reliable.

Therefore...
if you really want to know there is no other option than trying it out yourself.
I can no longer take you serious.

So unless YOU are personally administering double-blind studies, interpreting data and publishing the results then It cant be true?

What about dinosaurs?  You believe them sciency-folks bout them?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: drkaje on February 20, 2016, 07:34:24 PM
So much science my brain hurts!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: TTfit on February 20, 2016, 07:39:33 PM
i eat a candy bar and a potato and check my glucometer and the reading is the same

Who cares? That has nothing to do with nothing. A reading is a reading maybe but a carb is NOT a carb in the sense we are talking here.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on February 20, 2016, 08:30:40 PM
Cows eat grass that is fibrous and they are fat.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 10:14:16 PM
and ???

glucose area under curve for 2hr window:

potatoes: 148
mars bar: 98

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tMgToYs_oYc/S8e7ie5pzdI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/HTi6-GA9y_k/s1600/Holt_etal_1997_T04a.PNG)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tMgToYs_oYc/S8e7mKwsHHI/AAAAAAAAAKE/A7H1Y2jDQPk/s1600/Holt_etal_1997_T04b.PNG)

you're wrong

I don't get this chart.  It has 6 different values for white bread.  Everyone is different.  Does it say that everything people say about blood glucose and glycemic index is basically wrong?  Seems like other than white bread and jelly beans there isn't all that much difference.  Some of the margins of error plus minus seem ridiculously high.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Never1AShow on February 20, 2016, 10:16:46 PM
Also potato chips are the same as apples and doughnuts ?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: cephissus on February 20, 2016, 10:33:26 PM
I don't get this chart.  It has 6 different values for white bread.  Everyone is different.  Does it say that everything people say about blood glucose and glycemic index is basically wrong?  Seems like other than white bread and jelly beans there isn't all that much difference.  Some of the margins of error plus minus seem ridiculously high.

pretty much.  i'm guessing they administered a separate trial for each food group, including white bread in each to serve as a reference point.  been a while since i read the abstract.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 02:12:50 AM

So you think all one have to do is take a vitamin with their aminos and olive oil ? By all means try it. When someone says a carb is a carb (which are not essential ) they are right. A carb in and of itself can't be anything but a carb. Now the difference is what foods are you eating to get your carbs. Lots of plant foods contain an abundance of nutrients that we so vitally need. So it's not the carb but the source of where the carb is coming that sustains us. It all breaks down into glucose. Fiber glycemic index amount of sugars insulin response is what ages us prematurely and ruins our health. I'd rather have they vital nutrients in the plant food than the carbs but it's not possible since we are still identifying mico nutrients that we need to live a healthy life.
Stop fucking waffling and trying to divert from what you said, you claimed carbs fats and proteins contained no nutritional value, I have explained how proteins contain amino acids and as such have nutritional value.
I couldnt give a fuck about carbs, that wasnt the crux of my argument
Now, do you still think protein contains no nutritional value as you stated earlier?
Stop making a fool of yourself.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 03:37:05 AM
I can no longer take you serious.

Ok.




Title: Re: A carb is a carb, PLEASE ignore fibrous carbs like Lettuce and Cucumbers
Post by: drkaje on February 21, 2016, 05:08:31 AM
I don't get this chart.  It has 6 different values for white bread.  Everyone is different.  Does it say that everything people say about blood glucose and glycemic index is basically wrong?  Seems like other than white bread and jelly beans there isn't all that much difference.  Some of the margins of error plus minus seem ridiculously high.

The 6 values represent different calculations.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 06:08:28 AM
pretty much.  i'm guessing they administered a separate trial for each food group, including white bread in each to serve as a reference point.  been a while since i read the abstract.

This chart seems to show that most foods are within a fairly close range in what they do to your blood glucose and insulin levels.  I'd guess that if you add to this what also happens when these foods are costumed and digested along with other foods like how normal humans eat, even much of that variation goes away.

I think this seems to prove a carb is a carb right?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Thin Lizzy on February 21, 2016, 06:36:22 AM
This chart seems to show that most foods are within a fairly close range in what they do to your blood glucose and insulin levels.  I'd guess that if you add to this what also happens when these foods are costumed and digested along with other foods like how normal humans eat, even much of that variation goes away.

I think this seems to prove a carb is a carb right?

From my understanding, the research is moving away from the Glycemic Index and towards Glycemic Load.

So we're back to, "If you don't want to get fat, don't eat too much."

Who could've guessed? ;)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 08:54:03 AM
I have a perfect analogy to demonstrate that a carb is just a carb.

When you exercise, and use cables or machines, your body doesn't realize its using a cable or machine. Tension is tension, whether you use cable/machine or free weight. Your body is not going to "say" to itself, "Oh, I am not going to grow because tension is coming from a cable, and not a barbell."

Similarly, your body is not going to differentiate from where the carb or fat is coming from. Your body is not going to secretly make you get fatter because the carb or fat came from a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 08:57:00 AM
I have a perfect analogy to demonstrate that a carb is just a carb.

When you exercise, and use cables or machines, your body doesn't realize its using a cable or machine. Tension is tension, whether you use cable/machine or free weight. Your body is not going to "say" to itself, "Oh, I am not going to grow because tension is coming from a cable, and not a barbell."

Similarly, your body is not going to differentiate from where the carb or fat is coming from. Your body is not going to secretly make you get fatter because the carb or fat came from a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.


Still there are different types of carbs.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 08:57:28 AM
I have a perfect analogy to demonstrate that a carb is just a carb.

When you exercise, and use cables or machines, your body doesn't realize its using a cable or machine. Tension is tension, whether you use cable/machine or free weight. Your body is not going to "say" to itself, "Oh, I am not going to grow because tension is coming from a cable, and not a barbell.
"

Similarly, your body is not going to differentiate from where the carb or fat is coming from. Your body is not going to secretly make you get fatter because the carb or fat came from a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.

If one agree's with that, then ok.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:03:59 AM

Still there are different types of carbs.



How does a carb magically transform when its inside a piece of cake, as opposed to a piece of chicken?  ??? ???
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:05:02 AM
If one agree's with that, then ok.

Do you have any evidence that the body responds differently to free weights when compared to machines/cables?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 09:07:23 AM
Do you have any evidence that the body responds differently to free weights when compared to machines/cables?

yes, personal experience. Have done this many times.

I need a mix of them to be my best, it's never an "all or nothing" response here. Nothing is all negative here, would say "some machines are good, some cable movements are good, some free weight movements are good"



Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 09:09:27 AM
How does a carb magically transform when its inside a piece of cake, as opposed to a piece of chicken?  ??? ???

LOL.
What will be the final form of said transformation?

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 09:10:12 AM
yes, personal experience. Have done this many times.

I need a mix of them to be my best, it's never an "all or nothing" response here. Nothing is all negative here, would say "some machines are good, some cable movements are good, some free weight movements are good"


Yes.
Noticed the same.
In the end I settled for like one third free weights, one third machines and one third cables.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:14:05 AM
yes, personal experience. Have done this many times.

I need a mix of them to be my best, it's never an "all or nothing" response here. Nothing is all negative here, would say "some machines are good, some cable movements are good, some free weight movements are good"





Personal experience is poor evidence when trying to prove a claim. There is no way you can assert that your muscle gains came from one exercise or another. If you do a mixture of free weights and cables/machines, how do you know which one your body is responding to best? There is no way you can objectively tell.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 09:14:45 AM
Yes.
Noticed the same.
In the end I settled for like one third free weights, one third machines and on third cables.

I like that as well. Or I may do just two movements but make them all free weight but same total sets I would have done over a free weight, machine, then cable. They all have their value in regards to how they stimulate muscle.

No idea why it has to be an "all or nothing" approach. The body gets tired from fee weights, yet still has gas to continue but CNS gets tired. So stuff that is easier on the CNS yet still stimulates the muscle at this point is a great option.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:15:38 AM
LOL.
What will be the final form of said transformation?



These are the structures of a carb. The structures of a carb do not change because its inside a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.

(http://jennifer.nutritiontransition.co.uk/images/carbohydrate-diagram.jpg)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 09:17:36 AM
Personal experience is poor evidence when trying to prove a claim. There is no way you can assert that your muscle gains came from one exercise or another. If you do a mixture of free weights and cables/machines, how do you know which one your body is responding to best? There is no way you can objectively tell.

I totally disagree but if you feel you're getting great results as you're doing now, stick with it.

Been at this 26 years man, I've done a lot of comparing, helped a lot of people, so my opinion is more than valid and my inner voice logic is better than most hence why I look better than most and use less gear even.

So, ha! Pecker waiving contest over, you lose, I win.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 09:18:12 AM
Personal experience is poor evidence when trying to prove a claim. There is no way you can assert that your muscle gains came from one exercise or another. If you do a mixture of free weights and cables/machines, how do you know which one your body is responding to best? There is no way you can objectively tell.
its the best way of proving something to yourself.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 09:18:37 AM
These are the structures of a carb. The structures of a carb do not change because its inside a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.

(http://jennifer.nutritiontransition.co.uk/images/carbohydrate-diagram.jpg)

I never said anything like that.
But yes...
These are the different types of carbs I was refering to.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 09:19:53 AM
its the best way of proving something to yourself.

True.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 09:20:16 AM
These are the structures of a carb. The structures of a carb do not change because its inside a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.

(http://jennifer.nutritiontransition.co.uk/images/carbohydrate-diagram.jpg)
If you look at that closely, yes they do.
and a chicken breast doesnt contain carbs.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: anabolicguru on February 21, 2016, 09:22:36 AM
carb is a carb, Any Diabetic will tell you otherwise ;D
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:23:48 AM
its the best way of proving something to yourself.

And in this world, that is all that is needed for most people, in order to trump themselves up!  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: anabolicguru on February 21, 2016, 09:24:38 AM
These are the structures of a carb. The structures of a carb do not change because its inside a piece of cake, and not a chicken breast.

(http://jennifer.nutritiontransition.co.uk/images/carbohydrate-diagram.jpg)

no carbs in chicken moron
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 09:25:21 AM
And in this world, that is all that is needed for most people, in order to trump themselves up!  :-\ :-\
I dont think "ritch" needs to trump himself up.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 09:26:27 AM
carb is a carb, Any Diabetic will tell you otherwise ;D

 :D :D

Yeah.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 09:30:33 AM
So if someone got a "mass program" and had nothing but cables and a few machines, you'd agree it's a good one?

If you say "yes" to that, you are even dumber than I thought you were.

Nice playing with you boys on this matter, sucks to always be right, but what can ya do?

Ta, ta....
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 09:39:05 AM
So if someone got a "mass program" and had nothing but cables and a few machines, you'd agree it's a good one?

If you say "yes" to that, you are even dumber than I thought you were.

Nice playing with you boys on this matter, sucks to always be right, but what can ya do?

Ta, ta....

Free weights are essential/a must and should form the base of any weight training.
Mainly because they stimulate stabilizer muscles also and therefore will build more overall strength.
Also there will be a difference physique wise as opposed to machine/cable training only.



Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 09:48:22 AM
carb is a carb, Any Diabetic will tell you otherwise ;D
Yes, a diabetic who is slipping into a coma will instinctively reach for a potato, he knows a carb is a carb.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:50:11 AM
no carbs in chicken moron

It was just an example. Replace chicken with a potato.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 09:52:44 AM
So if someone got a "mass program" and had nothing but cables and a few machines, you'd agree it's a good one?

If you say "yes" to that, you are even dumber than I thought you were.

Nice playing with you boys on this matter, sucks to always be right, but what can ya do?

Ta, ta....

You'd have to demonstrate to me that person X can either build or not build the same amount of muscle when comparing cables/machines to free weights.

Why should I accept any claim without demonstrable evidence?   ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 09:55:23 AM
It was just an example. Replace chicken with a potato.
you not posting a picture explained in one post.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 09:58:41 AM
You'd have to demonstrate to me that person X can either build or not build the same amount of muscle when comparing cables/machines to free weights.

Why should I accept any claim without demonstrable evidence?   ??? ??? ???

I sent you all the studies and proof via snail mail.
Patience, it's coming!

In the meantime, you can live in FEAR knowing I'm right!
Ahahahahahah.....
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 10:08:49 AM
you not posting a picture explained in one post.

Chicken and potatoes.
(http://foodnetwork.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/food/fullset/2012/10/2/1/FNM_110112-Garlic-and-Chicken-Potatoes-Recipe_s4x3.jpg)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 12:29:02 PM
Cephissus's chart seemed to show that whether you call it a complex carb or a simple carb, and regardless of the chemical composition, except for a few outliers they affect the blood sugar and insulin pretty similarly.

This means there's a heck of a lot of bro science and people talking out of their asses about the differences between carbs and their effect on the body.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Yamcha on February 21, 2016, 12:34:00 PM
Chicken and potatoes.
(http://foodnetwork.sndimg.com/content/dam/images/food/fullset/2012/10/2/1/FNM_110112-Garlic-and-Chicken-Potatoes-Recipe_s4x3.jpg)

That looks delicious.

Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 12:36:10 PM
Cephissus's chart seemed to show that whether you call it a complex carb or a simple carb, and regardless of the chemical composition, except for a few outliers they affect the blood sugar and insulin pretty similarly.

This means there's a heck of a lot of bro science and people talking out of their asses about the differences between carbs and their effect on the body.


First of all we don't know if this is actually a true representation of what has been done or even if it has really been done.
Second this chart doesn't take time into account.

If you would take some measurements over time (let's say every 2 mins) there will be a significant difference between simple carbs and complex carbs.
Also the effect on the body is very different.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 12:40:24 PM
the glycemic chart is BS anyway, we never eat just a potato as a meal anyway. The meal with have fats and carbs redering this whole debate totally and completely useless.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Yamcha on February 21, 2016, 12:41:28 PM
the glycemic chart is BS anyway, we never eat just a potato as a meal anyway. The meal with have fats and carbs redering this whole debate's totally and completely useless.



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BQNGEMSZL._SX450_.jpg)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 12:46:02 PM
I just ate a baked potato and pot roast.

If I eat a piece of cake, will the carbs from cake be the same as the carbs in the baked potato?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BQNGEMSZL._SX450_.jpg)


LOL!
Can't debate that one!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Simple Simon on February 21, 2016, 12:48:25 PM
I just ate a baked potato and pot roast.

If I eat a piece of cake, will the carbs from cake be the same as the carbs in the baked potato?
you have already posted evidence yourself that they are not.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 12:48:48 PM
I just ate a baked potato and pot roast.

If I eat a piece of cake, will the carbs from cake be the same as the carbs in the baked potato?


The piece of cake will most likely contain more simple carbs whereas the potato will have more complex carbs by nature.

Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Yamcha on February 21, 2016, 12:50:26 PM

The piece of cake will most likely contain more simple carbs whereas the potato will have more complex carbs by nature.



What if you use potato flour in the cake?

(http://www.bobsredmill.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/4/1445c244_potatoflour_f_1800.jpg)
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 12:51:54 PM
What if you use potato flour in the cake?

(http://www.bobsredmill.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/4/1445c244_potatoflour_f_1800.jpg)

LOL.
Who would want to do that?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Yamcha on February 21, 2016, 12:55:54 PM
LOL.
Who would want to do that?


Cissyfits
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 01:14:57 PM
you have already posted evidence yourself that they are not.

Perhaps, but after much contemplation, I am beginning to think I am wrong. Thus, I need the continued guidance of getbiggers.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 21, 2016, 01:17:41 PM
Perhaps, but after much contemplation, I am beginning to think I am wrong. Thus, I need the continued guidance of getbiggers.

LOL!!!! Don't we all...

But carefully worded everything perfectly here. "beginning to think" meaning, not there yet. "perhaps" not confirming....

Well played!
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 01:17:47 PM

The piece of cake will most likely contain more simple carbs whereas the potato will have more complex carbs by nature.



What are more healthy for you, simple or complex carbs?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 01:18:07 PM
Perhaps, but after much contemplation, I am beginning to think I am wrong. Thus, I need the continued guidance of getbiggers.

I may be wrong also.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 01:18:49 PM
LOL!!!! Don't we all...

But carefully worded everything perfectly here. "beginning to think" meaning, not there yet. "perhaps" not confirming....

Well played!

Getbiggers must always keep an open mind for new information.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 01:19:28 PM
What are more healthy for you, simple or complex carbs?

Each has their place.
A diabetic might be more qualified to answer.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 01:23:33 PM
Each has their place.
A diabetic might be more qualified to answer.


I just ate ice cream.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 01:24:38 PM
I just ate ice cream.

Ice cream.
I never understood the hype.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 02:09:41 PM
I just ate a baked potato and pot roast.

If I eat a piece of cake, will the carbs from cake be the same as the carbs in the baked potato?

My guess is it redlines your blood glucose and insulin because the cake sugar can be very easily assimilated, but you are right, who knows and this whole discussion is something of a demonstration of how little we know.

I'd want an implant that measures blood sugar 24/7 wirelessly hooked up to my computer to monitor this over a long period of time.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 02:12:52 PM
Ice cream.
I never understood the hype.


you dont know what youre missing.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Yamcha on February 21, 2016, 02:56:01 PM
Ice cream.
I never understood the hype.


poor people will never understand the nicer things in life.

 :D
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 04:24:10 PM
poor people will never understand the nicer things in life.

 :D

I think a lot of really delicious cuisine is the result of poor people trying to make deliciois food.  Stuff like chop sued and soulf food.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 21, 2016, 08:11:15 PM
So eating some rice warmed up with a little butter in order to avoid eating pie and ice cream like I did tonight was a fools errand?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: OB1 on February 21, 2016, 08:13:29 PM
So eating some rice warmed up with a little butter in order to avoid eating pie and ice cream like I did tonight was a fools errand?

No.
Way to go.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Walter Sobchak on February 21, 2016, 08:16:51 PM
you dont know what youre missing.

He's a Shizzo gimmick, so he craves something creamy, but a lot more salty
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 21, 2016, 08:26:16 PM
He's a Shizzo gimmick, so he craves something creamy, but a lot more salty

lol.

Has it been confirmed its a shizzo gimmick?

OB1 needs to do the upside down cup challenge.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Walter Sobchak on February 21, 2016, 08:51:07 PM
lol.

Has it been confirmed its a shizzo gimmick?

OB1 needs to do the upside down cup challenge.

OB1 has been using penises as tongue depressors
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Mike on February 21, 2016, 09:00:17 PM
OB1 has been using penises as tongue depressors
I stopped replying to his comments.  My head hurts.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 22, 2016, 12:25:40 AM
But potatos were always known to be high glycemic, why is it such a surprise?

Sweet potatos are the best for every day eating.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: cephissus on February 22, 2016, 12:42:48 AM

Second this chart doesn't take time into account.


Actually, it does.  The numbers represent "area under the curve", the curve measuring insulin or glucose as a function of time.

the glycemic chart is BS anyway, we never eat just a potato as a meal anyway. The meal with have fats and carbs redering this whole debate totally and completely useless.



"complex" or "simple", the glucose and insulin response is similar.  whether that response is altered by other foods is irrelevant.

But potatos were always known to be high glycemic, why is it such a surprise?

Sweet potatos are the best for every day eating.

why is that?  sweet potatoes are also "high glycemic"

(http://www.precisionnutrition.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gi-and-gl-of-potatoes-and-sweet-potatoes.png)

My guess is it redlines your blood glucose and insulin because the cake sugar can be very easily assimilated, but you are right, who knows and this whole discussion is something of a demonstration of how little we know.

I'd want an implant that measures blood sugar 24/7 wirelessly hooked up to my computer to monitor this over a long period of time.

Exactly.

The more you learn and experience, the more questions you have.  Eventually you start to realize the world is full of people who need truth, and people who are willing to sell it to them.  Not many can stand to live with open questions.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: drkaje on February 22, 2016, 04:23:57 AM
Actually, it does.  The numbers represent "area under the curve", the curve measuring insulin or glucose as a function of time.

"complex" or "simple", the glucose and insulin response is similar.  whether that response is altered by other foods is irrelevant.

why is that?  sweet potatoes are also "high glycemic"

Exactly.

The more you learn and experience, the more questions you have.  Eventually you start to realize the world is full of people who need truth, and people who are willing to sell it to them.  Not many can stand to live with open questions.

That first chart doesn't support your opinion. It shows clearly that a Mars Bar affects blood sugar much differently than a potato.

It's a great chart for those understanding that carbs aren't all created equal, though.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Parker on February 22, 2016, 04:49:19 AM
Actually, it does.  The numbers represent "area under the curve", the curve measuring insulin or glucose as a function of time.

"complex" or "simple", the glucose and insulin response is similar.  whether that response is altered by other foods is irrelevant.

why is that?  sweet potatoes are also "high glycemic"

(http://www.precisionnutrition.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gi-and-gl-of-potatoes-and-sweet-potatoes.png)

Exactly.

The more you learn and experience, the more questions you have.  Eventually you start to realize the world is full of people who need truth, and people who are willing to sell it to them.  Not many can stand to live with open questions.
Because Pat Banya eats them and looks better than you ;D
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 22, 2016, 05:07:54 AM
Actually, it does.  The numbers represent "area under the curve", the curve measuring insulin or glucose as a function of time.

"complex" or "simple", the glucose and insulin response is similar.  whether that response is altered by other foods is irrelevant.

why is that?  sweet potatoes are also "high glycemic"

(http://www.precisionnutrition.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gi-and-gl-of-potatoes-and-sweet-potatoes.png)

Exactly.

The more you learn and experience, the more questions you have.  Eventually you start to realize the world is full of people who need truth, and people who are willing to sell it to them.  Not many can stand to live with open questions.

I boil them, so no, not high glycemic.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 22, 2016, 05:55:14 AM
Actually, it does.  The numbers represent "area under the curve", the curve measuring insulin or glucose as a function of time.

"complex" or "simple", the glucose and insulin response is similar.  whether that response is altered by other foods is irrelevant.

why is that?  sweet potatoes are also "high glycemic"

(http://www.precisionnutrition.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gi-and-gl-of-potatoes-and-sweet-potatoes.png)

Exactly.

The more you learn and experience, the more questions you have.  Eventually you start to realize the world is full of people who need truth, and people who are willing to sell it to them.  Not many can stand to live with open questions.

Why would it be irrelevant if it was eaten with other things and where is the proof of that.  It seems reasonable that combining things could radically change this chart. But what proof is there beyond speculation?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: cephissus on February 23, 2016, 03:50:58 AM
Why would it be irrelevant if it was eaten with other things and where is the proof of that.  It seems reasonable that combining things could radically change this chart. But what proof is there beyond speculation?

if these 'other things' could change the behavior of a candy bar, they could also change the behavior of a sweet potato.  suggesting that this experiment is 'meaningless' because 'food combining' is incorrect.  it may be the case that, for example, "complex carbs" interact with other foods in a way "simple carbs" do not, but that is unintuitive and requires further justification.

also (not that this is relevant), I've measured myself many times.  'food combining' did not magically blunt the glucose spike.

That first chart doesn't support your opinion. It shows clearly that a Mars Bar affects blood sugar much differently than a potato.

not really.  the servings were isocaloric and mars bars have a lot more fat than potatoes.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: cephissus on February 23, 2016, 10:47:42 PM
by the way, a carb is not a carb:

Quote
In conclusion, lean and obese subjects had the same increase in fatty acid synthesis on eucaloric, very low fat solid food diets enriched in simple sugars. The increase in synthesis was not related to insulin, glucagon, or glucose levels. Both the linoleate dilution and MIDA methods showed that the increase in fatty acid synthesis followed two distinct 24-h patterns and was correlated with the highly variable increase in TG. As yet undefined mediators of the carbohydrate-induced stimulation of human fatty acid synthesis need to be identified. The effect of high carbohydrate diets on energy balance is small, yet the impact of de novo synthesized saturated fatty acids on the fatty acid composition and production of VLDL TG is large due to the relatively small pool of fatty acids in the plasma. The physiological consequences and potential atherogenicity of such changes must be elucidated, given the increasing public consumption of simple sugars (27). Future studies of these effects of low fat, high carbohydrate diets should lead to better dietary therapy for hypertriglyceridemia and cardiovascular disease.

http://www.jlr.org/content/41/4/595.long

simple sugars = heart disease ??? ???

maybe?  maybe not?

"small impact on energy balance"

"substantial de novo fatty acid synthesis"

"but... no correlation to bmi" -- hmm, what about fatty acid storage?

are you confused yet?

:D
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 24, 2016, 06:55:15 PM
by the way, a carb is not a carb:

http://www.jlr.org/content/41/4/595.long

simple sugars = heart disease ??? ???

maybe?  maybe not?

"small impact on energy balance"

"substantial de novo fatty acid synthesis"

"but... no correlation to bmi" -- hmm, what about fatty acid storage?

are you confused yet?

:D

Further studies needed it says. It also seems to be focusing on disease not athletics.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 24, 2016, 06:57:53 PM
Further studies needed it says. It also seems to be focusing on disease not athletics.

No studies are needed to know what a bunch of hogwash is being discussed here...
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 24, 2016, 06:59:05 PM
if these 'other things' could change the behavior of a candy bar, they could also change the behavior of a sweet potato.  suggesting that this experiment is 'meaningless' because 'food combining' is incorrect.  it may be the case that, for example, "complex carbs" interact with other foods in a way "simple carbs" do not, but that is unintuitive and requires further justification.

also (not that this is relevant), I've measured myself many times.  'food combining' did not magically blunt the glucose spike.

not really.  the servings were isocaloric and mars bars have a lot more fat than potatoes.

This sounds like you are relying on a study of one to rebut the food combining, which isn't very scientific.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 24, 2016, 07:01:42 PM
No studies are needed to know what a bunch of hogwash is being discussed here...

That actually kinda blows my mind that boiling v. Baking can have such an impact.  Any info on microwaving?  Ever notice any difference comparing the two, boiled v. baked in how they affect your physique or performance?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 24, 2016, 07:09:58 PM
That actually kinda blows my mind that boiling v. Baking can have such an impact.  Any info on microwaving?  Ever notice any difference comparing the two, boiled v. baked in how they affect your physique or performance?

Microwave is bad, period, lol! And yeah it increases the glycemic index (almost certain of this) I read this from Dan Duchaine a long, long time ago.

But eating protein and fats does stabalize the blood sugar levels. Don't care what the stupid trolls here say.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: cephissus on February 24, 2016, 09:36:42 PM
This sounds like you are relying on a study of one to rebut the food combining, which isn't very scientific.

the point is that "simple" and "complex" carbs can have similar effects on blood glucose.  if eating a steak with wild rice lowers the glucose response (not me experience, but again, NOT RELEVANT), then you may suspect that eating a steak with your pile of white rice might ellicit a similar reduction in glucose response.  to suggest that food combining effects the glucose response of some carbs differently than others goes, to me, against intuition.  and not only that, but my personal experience.

i advise testing these things for yourself.  it's cheap and easy, and you may find that glucose response does not "play by the rules."

but then again, you're right.  i'm not very scientific and "protein and fats does stabalize the blood sugar levels", so don't worry about eating a sweet potato because that's completely, 100% different from a bowl of cookie crisp.

::)

just to be clear, i don't really have a stake in this debate.  i just find it hilarious that so many people (on a bodybuilding forum, of all places), continue to recite nutritional dogma on the basis of claims that don't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

by the way, want to hear some more anti-science bullshit?

Just take a look at how amylase, a salivary enzyme found in highly variable levels (DNA-dependent) has on those complex starchy carbs:

Quote
We found that following starch ingestion, HA individuals had significantly lower postprandial blood glucose concentrations at 45, 60, and 75 min, as well as significantly lower AUC and peak blood glucose concentrations than the LA individuals. Plasma insulin concentrations in the HA group were significantly higher than baseline early in the testing session, whereas insulin concentrations in the LA group did not increase at this time. Following ingestion of the glucose solution, however, blood glucose and insulin concentrations did not differ between the groups. These observations are interpreted to suggest that HA individuals may be better adapted to ingest starches, whereas LA individuals may be at greater risk for insulin resistance and diabetes if chronically ingesting starch-rich diets.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3327743/

More amylase = more breakdown of starch to sugar IN THE MOUTH = signficantly LOWER peak and total glucose

IS YOUR HEAD SPINNING?
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: cephissus on February 24, 2016, 10:04:51 PM
That actually kinda blows my mind that boiling v. Baking can have such an impact.  Any info on microwaving?  Ever notice any difference comparing the two, boiled v. baked in how they affect your physique or performance?

What blows my mind is that these seem like reasonable questions.  Like, do you imagine ritch wakes up one day thinks, "wow, i feel like shit after that workout -- must be because i microwaved my potato instead of boiling it!"

or "wow, i'm starting look like shit, better ditch the microwave and start boiling my potatoes again"

well, actually now that i think about it, he probably does...  :-\
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: SF1900 on February 24, 2016, 10:05:53 PM
Piece of advice to all getbiggers:

Do not take any advice from Cessiphus.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: ritch on February 24, 2016, 10:44:57 PM
Re read the last sentence of my last post stick boy.
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Yamcha on February 25, 2016, 03:55:16 AM
Piece of advice to all getbiggers:

Do not take any advice from Cessiphus.

(http://static2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Amen+_41e4270df7d18fdd8fb013223e2a08cb.gif)
amen
Title: Re: A carb is a carb, Cephissus destroys glycemic index myth
Post by: Never1AShow on February 25, 2016, 08:16:13 PM
What blows my mind is that these seem like reasonable questions.  Like, do you imagine ritch wakes up one day thinks, "wow, i feel like shit after that workout -- must be because i microwaved my potato instead of boiling it!"

or "wow, i'm starting look like shit, better ditch the microwave and start boiling my potatoes again"

well, actually now that i think about it, he probably does...  :-\

I don't think I called you non scientific other than pointing out that sample size of one thing.  I appreciate what you've posted in this thread.  Basically you are saying almost all bodybuilding nutrition claims are bro science.  Heck not just bodybuilding, pretty much all athletic nutrition claims.