Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: el numero uno on February 22, 2016, 07:43:26 PM
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To be honest, I never thought about it.
By Suzanne Sadedin, BSc.(Hons) in Zoology; Ph.D. in evolutionary biology.
Lifespan in general is determined by trade-offs between survival and reproduction. Wolves, the ancestors of dogs, can live 15-20 years*, roughly twice as long as comparable-sized dogs. They start breeding in the wild no younger than 2 years. They need to form pairs and establish a territory before breeding. Older wolves will often have help raising their pups from older juveniles who have not managed to mate or find territories. In contrast, most dogs can breed from 6-12 months of age, and they don't benefit from having territories, pair bonds or packs. Whereas wolves breed until they die, dog breeders will usually retire older females. So the whole life history of dogs is shifted to more of a "live-fast-die-young" style compared with wolves.
On top of that, artificial selection and inbreeding have created huge problems for dogs. Here's what dogs look like, when they're not bred to conform to human expectations:
(https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-21deaa82fc8f4d7d6bdd6adab5eef693?convert_to_webp=true)
Notice the:
- Long snouts. For breathing, panting and eating. Shorten the snout, and you get squished teeth, reduced heat tolerance and breathing problems.
- Broad skulls. For brains. Several modern breeds have been reduced to what Temple Grandin calls "brainless icepicks". Reducing brain size doesn't just make animals stupid, it also contributes to neurological issues that can kill them.
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
- Strong hips. They're for walking and running. Breed them into a cool-looking German Shepherd slouch and you'll get hip dysplasia.
- Slender, lithe forms. Carrying extra weight puts increased wear-and-tear on all body systems.
Striving to breed to an idealized "type" while ignoring basic physiological necessities doesn't create a robust organism. That's how we get tortured monstrosities like English Bulldogs, who can barely breathe without snorting and whose pups must be cut out of the mother's womb because she can no longer deliver them. Even seemingly harmless traits often bring a higher probability of serious health problems. White fur, for example, is often accompanied by neurological deficits ranging from subtle behavioural abnormalities, to deafness or even early death. Generally speaking, working dogs have sustained longer lifespans because they're required to be physically fit to do their jobs. Show dogs are mostly just required to meet peculiar aesthetic requirements and be easily managed. The lethargy resulting from chronic health problems is actually a positive for champions who dominate the gene pool, even if it shortens their lives. (It's a bit like foot-binding, whose victims were prized as wives for their passive and mild behaviour, which resulted from being crippled and in constant pain).
Loss of genetic diversity also shortens lifespans. In a healthy population, essentially all individuals have several defective genes, but each defective gene is rare in the population as a whole. Each individual holds two copies of each gene, so in a randomly mating population, it's rare for an individual to have two defective copies. Usually, as long as the individual has at least one good copy, it will be fine. Health problems only arise when an individual has two defective copies. But when the population experiences a genetic bottleneck -- that is, only a few individuals get to breed -- any defects they have will spread to a large proportion of the population. That means that when these individuals mate, a large proportion of their offspring will carry two copies of the genetic defect and therefore be unhealthy.
Unfortunately, for the last century or so, dog breeders have actively pursued a misguided strategy of purifying breeds by demonizing cross-breeding and allowing only "champions" to breed. I recall reading somewhere that the entire Standard Poodle population consists of effectively about 7 dogs. Health-wise, this is terrible. You can't eliminate all the subtle genetic problems that plague breeds by selective breeding. They arise faster than you can purge them. Whilst some of the more severe defects have been reduced by conscientious breeders who test their dogs before breeding, this selective breeding further narrows the gene pool, and has thus promoted many more defective genes that cause mild reductions in health and lifespan. We can't test for these defects, and consequently they are now prevalent throughout most non-working breeds.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-dogs-have-such-short-lives
PS: bodybuilding related
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/f0/67/6ff067d38a2bf9d2124c2eb7d14af18a.jpg)
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To be honest, I never thought about it.
By Suzanne Sadedin, BSc.(Hons) in Zoology; Ph.D. in evolutionary biology.
Lifespan in general is determined by trade-offs between survival and reproduction. Wolves, the ancestors of dogs, can live 15-20 years*, roughly twice as long as comparable-sized dogs. They start breeding in the wild no younger than 2 years. They need to form pairs and establish a territory before breeding. Older wolves will often have help raising their pups from older juveniles who have not managed to mate or find territories. In contrast, most dogs can breed from 6-12 months of age, and they don't benefit from having territories, pair bonds or packs. Whereas wolves breed until they die, dog breeders will usually retire older females. So the whole life history of dogs is shifted to more of a "live-fast-die-young" style compared with wolves.
On top of that, artificial selection and inbreeding have created huge problems for dogs. Here's what dogs look like, when they're not bred to conform to human expectations:
(https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-21deaa82fc8f4d7d6bdd6adab5eef693?convert_to_webp=true)
Notice the:
- Long snouts. For breathing, panting and eating. Shorten the snout, and you get squished teeth, reduced heat tolerance and breathing problems.
- Broad skulls. For brains. Several modern breeds have been reduced to what Temple Grandin calls "brainless icepicks". Reducing brain size doesn't just make animals stupid, it also contributes to neurological issues that can kill them.
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
- Strong hips. They're for walking and running. Breed them into a cool-looking German Shepherd slouch and you'll get hip dysplasia.
- Slender, lithe forms. Carrying extra weight puts increased wear-and-tear on all body systems.
Striving to breed to an idealized "type" while ignoring basic physiological necessities doesn't create a robust organism. That's how we get tortured monstrosities like English Bulldogs, who can barely breathe without snorting and whose pups must be cut out of the mother's womb because she can no longer deliver them. Even seemingly harmless traits often bring a higher probability of serious health problems. White fur, for example, is often accompanied by neurological deficits ranging from subtle behavioural abnormalities, to deafness or even early death. Generally speaking, working dogs have sustained longer lifespans because they're required to be physically fit to do their jobs. Show dogs are mostly just required to meet peculiar aesthetic requirements and be easily managed. The lethargy resulting from chronic health problems is actually a positive for champions who dominate the gene pool, even if it shortens their lives. (It's a bit like foot-binding, whose victims were prized as wives for their passive and mild behaviour, which resulted from being crippled and in constant pain).
Loss of genetic diversity also shortens lifespans. In a healthy population, essentially all individuals have several defective genes, but each defective gene is rare in the population as a whole. Each individual holds two copies of each gene, so in a randomly mating population, it's rare for an individual to have two defective copies. Usually, as long as the individual has at least one good copy, it will be fine. Health problems only arise when an individual has two defective copies. But when the population experiences a genetic bottleneck -- that is, only a few individuals get to breed -- any defects they have will spread to a large proportion of the population. That means that when these individuals mate, a large proportion of their offspring will carry two copies of the genetic defect and therefore be unhealthy.
Unfortunately, for the last century or so, dog breeders have actively pursued a misguided strategy of purifying breeds by demonizing cross-breeding and allowing only "champions" to breed. I recall reading somewhere that the entire Standard Poodle population consists of effectively about 7 dogs. Health-wise, this is terrible. You can't eliminate all the subtle genetic problems that plague breeds by selective breeding. They arise faster than you can purge them. Whilst some of the more severe defects have been reduced by conscientious breeders who test their dogs before breeding, this selective breeding further narrows the gene pool, and has thus promoted many more defective genes that cause mild reductions in health and lifespan. We can't test for these defects, and consequently they are now prevalent throughout most non-working breeds.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-dogs-have-such-short-lives
PS: bodybuilding related
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/f0/67/6ff067d38a2bf9d2124c2eb7d14af18a.jpg)
- Long snouts. For breathing, panting and eating. Shorten the snout, and you get squished teeth, reduced heat tolerance and breathing problems.
- Broad skulls. For brains. Several modern breeds have been reduced to what Temple Grandin calls "brainless icepicks". Reducing brain size doesn't just make animals stupid, it also contributes to neurological issues that can kill them.
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
- Strong hips. They're for walking and running. Breed them into a cool-looking German Shepherd slouch and you'll get hip dysplasia.
- Slender, lithe forms
Greyhounds have all the above traits and are selectively bred. They live 12-20 years usually.
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- Long snouts. For breathing, panting and eating. Shorten the snout, and you get squished teeth, reduced heat tolerance and breathing problems.
- Broad skulls. For brains. Several modern breeds have been reduced to what Temple Grandin calls "brainless icepicks". Reducing brain size doesn't just make animals stupid, it also contributes to neurological issues that can kill them.
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
- Strong hips. They're for walking and running. Breed them into a cool-looking German Shepherd slouch and you'll get hip dysplasia.
- Slender, lithe forms
Greyhounds have all the above traits and are selectively bred. They live 12-20 years usually.
Those are the positive traits that most breeds do not possess. You didn't even read the article. :D
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Those are the positive traits that most breeds do not possess. You didn't even read the article. :D
I did. Here is my point that you missed. Artificial selection, like the in case of Greyhounds, breed those traits and as a result through this artificial selection, Greyhounds also tend to live long lives on average, with many living to 20.
So I don't think the article is completely fair when they call dog breeding as misguided and detrimental.
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I did. Here is my point that you missed. Artificial selection, like the in case of Greyhounds, breed those traits and as a result through this artificial selection, Greyhounds also tend to live long lives on average, with many living to 20.
So I don't think the article is completely fair when they call dog breeding as misguided and detrimental.
Physical traits are not the only thing that matters. :D Even then, greyhounds would be the exception, not the rule.
Effective population size (EPS) 17
EPS is the measure of how many individuals are contributing genetically to a breed population (KC registered dogs). It is a measure of the size of the gene pool in a breed. Lower than 100 is considered critical by conservationists and below 50 puts a breed at grave risk.
http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/greyhound/
When you have a population with such a small gene pool, huge problems may arise. If you ever read about how bananas are endangered because a fungus known as Fusarium oxysporum (Panama disease) may completely destroy them, guess what, comercial bananas are propagated asexually. They are all clones from just a few varieties (<10).
It's the same with any species out there. If an individual from a population with a very small gene pool is highly susceptible to X or Y disease, you can bet all the individuals from the same breed, variety, etc are also highly susceptible.
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BTW I'm not saying that selective breeding is wrong. Humans have been able to increase milk and meat production, plant yields, etc thanks to it.
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One day people will be selectively bred for the Olympia stage. That's probably what palumbo just did.
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One day people will be selectively bred for the Olympia stage. That's probably what palumbo just did.
And Anabolichalo
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To be honest, I have thought about this many many times. We do research on lab rats and we breed animals to fit our needs.
It is normal for most, but if you start viewing humans as animals (meaning you disregard the notion that we should be special and worth more) and start comparing how we treat other animals it's pretty sick and twisted.
We're the natural worlds supervillain.
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I have known this for so long and used to preach about how shitty the whole entire pet industry is. They treat dogs (and cats) as a commodity, breed to excess and destroy the surplus. So people think they are rescuing a dog but they are actually causing healthy dogs to suffer and die by participating in the pet industry. Not to mention the genetic deformities bred into dogs through selective breeding. I think pet ownership highlights the worst of human nature and not the best. Amazing how people can feel good about such a perverse industry. But hey, who cares about the rights of animals when they make you feel good, right.
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- Long snouts. For breathing, panting and eating. Shorten the snout, and you get squished teeth, reduced heat tolerance and breathing problems.
- Broad skulls. For brains. Several modern breeds have been reduced to what Temple Grandin calls "brainless icepicks". Reducing brain size doesn't just make animals stupid, it also contributes to neurological issues that can kill them.
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
- Strong hips. They're for walking and running. Breed them into a cool-looking German Shepherd slouch and you'll get hip dysplasia.
- Slender, lithe forms
Greyhounds have all the above traits and are selectively bred. They live 12-20 years usually.
True that slipping an Obama vest on them helps add 5 years to their lives.
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I have known this for so long and used to preach about how shitty the whole entire pet industry is. They treat dogs (and cats) as a commodity, breed to excess and destroy the surplus. So people think they are rescuing a dog but they are actually causing healthy dogs to suffer and die by participating in the pet industry. Not to mention the genetic deformities bred into dogs through selective breeding. I think pet ownership highlights the worst of human nature and not the best. Amazing how people can feel good about such a perverse industry. But hey, who cares about the rights of animals when they make you feel good, right.
Agreed.
Not to mention castration.
People that do it should be next in line.
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I did. Here is my point that you missed. Artificial selection, like the in case of Greyhounds, breed those traits and as a result through this artificial selection, Greyhounds also tend to live long lives on average, with many living to 20.
So I don't think the article is completely fair when they call dog breeding as misguided and detrimental.
I think the nadir of artificial canine selection and the breed that most point to as the "evils of breeding" is the lamentable modern English Bulldog.
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I did. Here is my point that you missed. Artificial selection, like the in case of Greyhounds, breed those traits and as a result through this artificial selection, Greyhounds also tend to live long lives on average, with many living to 20.
So I don't think the article is completely fair when they call dog breeding as misguided and detrimental.
Greyhound breeding is the worst of the industry. The life of the Greyhound is one of misery, fear, mistreatment, and finally a painful death. Thousands of Greyhounds are produced each year, many more than are needed. Dogs that are considered too slow to make it are killed. Any dog that is injured, or develop muzzle sores or really any problems is killed. If they win they live. If they lose they die. Very few make it to 4 years old. Most end up with heatstroke, heart attack, injuries, sickness, broken legs, they all die. Dogs suffer at every track of neglect, and soon meet a cruel death. Cramming them in crates for transport to the track, sometimes a hundred miles or more, many die on the trip. Many suffer from malnutrition, and dehydration. Without the proper air conditioning they die from heatstroke. Any dog that slows down or becomes unprofitable is killed.
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I did. Here is my point that you missed. Artificial selection, like the in case of Greyhounds, breed those traits and as a result through this artificial selection, Greyhounds also tend to live long lives on average, with many living to 20.
So I don't think the article is completely fair when they call dog breeding as misguided and detrimental.
greyhounds are also sight hounds. And as you know, among the oldest of dog breeds. One could even say that they are working breeds, because they were bred for speed---for speed the animal needs to be able breathe freely and deeply (deep chest), be lightweight, agile, and have good sight. And in fact, dog species are known for their speed and endurance. They run down their prey. Which is opposite of heavily bodied cats, which are more stalk and abush predators. All pretty much accept the Cheetah. Which has a more dog like body.
Also, speaking of breeding and genetics, it's odd how the breed of "pit bull" can look like it has a long snout, pointy or floppy ears, or have that short snout "bully" look. I believe that this is because many of these dogs are mutts and or the breeders play fast and loose with breeding. That many of these dogs have more genetic diversity than people give them credit for.
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To be honest, I never thought about it.
By Suzanne Sadedin, BSc.(Hons) in Zoology; Ph.D. in evolutionary biology.
On top of that, artificial selection and inbreeding have created huge problems for dogs. Here's what dogs look like, when they're not bred to conform to human expectations:
Notice the:
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
Then why is it that every single german sheppard i had developed ear infections regularly, and other similar breeds with drop ears don't?
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It doesn't just stop with dogs. Same with foods we eat. Selective breeding plus drugs to make cows produce more milk, to make them grow faster, making chickens fatter, making pigs fatter. At least we don't ingest dogs but are fucked by the foods we eat.
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;D ;D ;D very interesting, bulldogs are probably the worst case of selective breeding ruining a breed.
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To be honest, I never thought about it.
By Suzanne Sadedin, BSc.(Hons) in Zoology; Ph.D. in evolutionary biology.
Lifespan in general is determined by trade-offs between survival and reproduction. Wolves, the ancestors of dogs, can live 15-20 years*, roughly twice as long as comparable-sized dogs. They start breeding in the wild no younger than 2 years. They need to form pairs and establish a territory before breeding. Older wolves will often have help raising their pups from older juveniles who have not managed to mate or find territories. In contrast, most dogs can breed from 6-12 months of age, and they don't benefit from having territories, pair bonds or packs. Whereas wolves breed until they die, dog breeders will usually retire older females. So the whole life history of dogs is shifted to more of a "live-fast-die-young" style compared with wolves.
On top of that, artificial selection and inbreeding have created huge problems for dogs. Here's what dogs look like, when they're not bred to conform to human expectations:
(https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-21deaa82fc8f4d7d6bdd6adab5eef693?convert_to_webp=true)
Notice the:
- Long snouts. For breathing, panting and eating. Shorten the snout, and you get squished teeth, reduced heat tolerance and breathing problems.
- Broad skulls. For brains. Several modern breeds have been reduced to what Temple Grandin calls "brainless icepicks". Reducing brain size doesn't just make animals stupid, it also contributes to neurological issues that can kill them.
- Pointy ears. They don't get ear infections. Make them floppy, and you create a nice environment for pathogenic bacteria.
- Strong hips. They're for walking and running. Breed them into a cool-looking German Shepherd slouch and you'll get hip dysplasia.
- Slender, lithe forms. Carrying extra weight puts increased wear-and-tear on all body systems.
Striving to breed to an idealized "type" while ignoring basic physiological necessities doesn't create a robust organism. That's how we get tortured monstrosities like English Bulldogs, who can barely breathe without snorting and whose pups must be cut out of the mother's womb because she can no longer deliver them. Even seemingly harmless traits often bring a higher probability of serious health problems. White fur, for example, is often accompanied by neurological deficits ranging from subtle behavioural abnormalities, to deafness or even early death. Generally speaking, working dogs have sustained longer lifespans because they're required to be physically fit to do their jobs. Show dogs are mostly just required to meet peculiar aesthetic requirements and be easily managed. The lethargy resulting from chronic health problems is actually a positive for champions who dominate the gene pool, even if it shortens their lives. (It's a bit like foot-binding, whose victims were prized as wives for their passive and mild behaviour, which resulted from being crippled and in constant pain).
Loss of genetic diversity also shortens lifespans. In a healthy population, essentially all individuals have several defective genes, but each defective gene is rare in the population as a whole. Each individual holds two copies of each gene, so in a randomly mating population, it's rare for an individual to have two defective copies. Usually, as long as the individual has at least one good copy, it will be fine. Health problems only arise when an individual has two defective copies. But when the population experiences a genetic bottleneck -- that is, only a few individuals get to breed -- any defects they have will spread to a large proportion of the population. That means that when these individuals mate, a large proportion of their offspring will carry two copies of the genetic defect and therefore be unhealthy.
Unfortunately, for the last century or so, dog breeders have actively pursued a misguided strategy of purifying breeds by demonizing cross-breeding and allowing only "champions" to breed. I recall reading somewhere that the entire Standard Poodle population consists of effectively about 7 dogs. Health-wise, this is terrible. You can't eliminate all the subtle genetic problems that plague breeds by selective breeding. They arise faster than you can purge them. Whilst some of the more severe defects have been reduced by conscientious breeders who test their dogs before breeding, this selective breeding further narrows the gene pool, and has thus promoted many more defective genes that cause mild reductions in health and lifespan. We can't test for these defects, and consequently they are now prevalent throughout most non-working breeds.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-dogs-have-such-short-lives
PS: bodybuilding related
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/f0/67/6ff067d38a2bf9d2124c2eb7d14af18a.jpg)
She's essentially saying Wolves were the original dogs. Fact!
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I have known this for so long and used to preach about how shitty the whole entire pet industry is. They treat dogs (and cats) as a commodity, breed to excess and destroy the surplus. So people think they are rescuing a dog but they are actually causing healthy dogs to suffer and die by participating in the pet industry. Not to mention the genetic deformities bred into dogs through selective breeding. I think pet ownership highlights the worst of human nature and not the best. Amazing how people can feel good about such a perverse industry. But hey, who cares about the rights of animals when they make you feel good, right.
To be fair, I don't think most people know about this. In my case, although I was aware that a small gene pool is detrimental, I never though about dog breeding until I came across the article.
And also to be fair, I think that even if most people knew about it, they wouldn't care anyway. :D
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The real deal you should do is like that Ethan Hawke movie where he tames a wild dog (wolf?) and feeds it and they become friends and live in his cabin. That dog chose to live with a human so it's all good there.
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The real deal you should do is like that Ethan Hawke movie where he tames a wild dog (wolf?) and feeds it and they become friends and live in his cabin. That dog chose to live with a human so it's all good there.
People who have tried to raise wolves usually are very cautious. They attack humans when they see or perceive weakness. Read this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox)
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The real deal you should do is like that Ethan Hawke movie where he tames a wild dog (wolf?) and feeds it and they become friends and live in his cabin. That dog chose to live with a human so it's all good there.
white fang was the movie...and to illustrate the point below on the backward evolution of the bulldog..
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People who have tried to raise wolves usually are very cautious. They attack humans when they see or perceive weakness. Read this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox)
Wolves are clearly Getbiggers.
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Wolves are clearly Getbiggers.
Do wolves prefer Trannies and fly first class exclusively?
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People who have tried to raise wolves usually are very cautious. They attack humans when they see or perceive weakness. Read this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox)
The silver fox experiment was about showing how behaviour could be selected for, thereby creating extremely tame dogs via generations of breeding only the tamest foxes and creating extremely vicious wild dogs by selecting and breeding only the most vicious. But dog breeders have long known this, especially breeders of fighting dogs.
And wolves don't attack based on sensing weakness, they attack for food or to defend, when seeking food they may choose a weak target, but they don't attack just because they sense weakness. Like most wild animals, dogs try and avoid any unnecessary conflict. It amazes me how much bullshit gets thrown around about dogs as if it was fact.
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So people think they are rescuing a dog but they are actually causing healthy dogs to suffer and die by participating in the pet industry.
::) I found my dog wandering the streets, malnourished as hell, and didn't have it in me to just drive away after he hung around me at work all that day 16 years ago. Turned out he belonged to a bunch of boongs who, by their own admission, never fed him and let him wander around so he could find food. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I rescued this dog.
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I have known this for so long and used to preach about how shitty the whole entire pet industry is. They treat dogs (and cats) as a commodity, breed to excess and destroy the surplus. So people think they are rescuing a dog but they are actually causing healthy dogs to suffer and die by participating in the pet industry. Not to mention the genetic deformities bred into dogs through selective breeding. I think pet ownership highlights the worst of human nature and not the best. Amazing how people can feel good about such a perverse industry. But hey, who cares about the rights of animals when they make you feel good, right.
Greyhounds do not exhibit any genetic deformities at all because they are bred for speed. As a result, all the traits associated with it, (including the brain becoming larger) are beneficial.
I can't speak for other breeds of dogs, however Border Collies also seem to be at the top of the gene pool for what they have been bred for and as a result exhibit remarkable traits that enhance its life.
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People who have tried to raise wolves usually are very cautious. They attack humans when they see or perceive weakness. Read this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Domesticated_Red_Fox)
:D
Thanks will do
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::) I found my dog wandering the streets, malnourished as hell, and didn't have it in me to just drive away after he hung around me at work all that day 16 years ago. Turned out he belonged to a bunch of boongs who, by their own admission, never fed him and let him wander around so he could find food. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I rescued this dog.
Great you think so, but the pet industry causes this to happen. If there was no pet industry, no animal mistreatment could happen in the first place. And people like you are the target audience, people who think they are helping when in fact they are part of the problem. So while you rescued some mutt, you fed the industry ensuring that some other poor mutts will lose their life. (I guess you chose to ignore that because then you wouldn't feel so great about your decision). Remove the market for pets and you remove the problem, but then how are the do-gooders like yourself going to feel good about themselves?
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an austalian shepard lived to be 29 years and several monthes old....210 in people years...
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2 of my 3 dogs are 14 and 12 and just like pups as far as energy goes.
I like dogs better than most people I know.
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2 of my 3 dogs are 14 and 12 and just like pups as far as energy goes.
I like dogs better than most people I know.
Everyone I know who loves dogs more than people is a shitty human being who couldn't generate loving relationships with others, so turned to dogs because they could control the relationship and remain a cun+, therefore never having to develop a personality that others would warm to. It's one thing to love dogs, but to love them more than people, that's just plain wrong.
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Great you think so, but the pet industry causes this to happen. If there was no pet industry, no animal mistreatment could happen in the first place. And people like you are the target audience, people who think they are helping when in fact they are part of the problem. So while you rescued some mutt, you fed the industry ensuring that some other poor mutts will lose their life. (I guess you chose to ignore that because then you wouldn't feel so great about your decision). Remove the market for pets and you remove the problem, but then how are the do-gooders like yourself going to feel good about themselves?
Idk. I guess I could get my thrills going online and telling people that they're no good. Evidently works for some.
My dog says you're full of shit tho.
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Idk. I guess I could get my thrills going online and telling people that they're no good. Evidently works for some.
My dog says you're full of shit tho.
Well, in my book, if people participate in harming animals, they are no good, even if it is by naively feeding a sick industry under the pretense they are doing good. Ignorance is no excuse. The old saying "The path to hell is paved with good intentions" fits the pet industry to a tee.
The fact is, pet ownership is 100% selfish, it has nothing to do with the rights and needs of animals but the needs and drives of the owner.
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I went to Olan Mills a few years back and had a few photos done with my pet rottweiler.
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I hope you're trolling, dude. Trying to equate the intentions of someone taking home a dog that is going to die to profit driven breeders who create dogs too fucked up to live is just odd.
People should be encouraged to rescue, yes rescue, an already existing dog from the pound. That's good pet industry right there. Way better pet industry than paying thousands for a purebreed so pure it can't breathe.
Lol, how am I even arguing this with you? No one is going to agree with you that rescuing a dog is an evil thing to do. Weirdo.
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I hope you're trolling, dude. Trying to equate the intentions of someone taking home a dog that is going to die to profit driven breeders who create dogs too fucked up to live is just odd.
People should be encouraged to rescue, yes rescue, an already existing dog from the pound. That's good pet industry right there. Way better pet industry than paying thousands for a purebreed so pure it can't breathe.
Lol, how am I even arguing this with you? No one is going to agree with you that rescuing a dog is an evil thing to do. Weirdo.
I have 3 rescue dogs and a rescue cat. Wouldn't have it any other way.
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I have a rescue dog but he can't fly the helicopter for shit. Can't even put a bandaid on someone. I'd fire him but he's a volunteer.
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Everyone I know who loves dogs more than people is a shitty human being who couldn't generate loving relationships with others, so turned to dogs because they could control the relationship and remain a cun+, therefore never having to develop a personality that others would warm to. It's one thing to love dogs, but to love them more than people, that's just plain wrong.
Go fuck yourself dickhead.
If I saw you right now I`d crack your fucking skull.
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Go fuck yourself dickhead.
If I saw you right now I`d crack your fucking skull.
Like I said, shitty human beings with crappy personalities.
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I hope you're trolling, dude. Trying to equate the intentions of someone taking home a dog that is going to die to profit driven breeders who create dogs too fucked up to live is just odd.
People should be encouraged to rescue, yes rescue, an already existing dog from the pound. That's good pet industry right there. Way better pet industry than paying thousands for a purebreed so pure it can't breathe.
Lol, how am I even arguing this with you? No one is going to agree with you that rescuing a dog is an evil thing to do. Weirdo.
Although rescuing is better than buying from a breeder, it is still part of the problem. And many people agree with me, PETA, an animal rights organization also believes that it would be in the animal's’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The fact so many people get mad at me pointing out the obvious shows you right there they know the truth. Like I said, pet ownership is about the human owner, they couldn't give a fuck how many animals die because of it. If they did care they would hold the same views as me. I know how stubbornly do-gooders hold onto the beliefs they are doing the right thing by animals by so called rescuing a dog, they do this because they have a need to feel good about themselves regardless of the cost to other life. The more saintly they view themselves, the more aggressively they react to someone pointing out the harm they are doing. I gave up years ago trying to do anything about it, the evil of do-gooders is almost impossible to overcome, mainly because they are in denial about the evil they participate in, as the comments in reaction to my views will prove sufficiently.
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Although rescuing is better than buying from a breeder, it is still part of the problem. And many people agree with me, PETA, an animal rights organization also believes that it would be in the animal's’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The fact so many people get mad at me pointing out the obvious shows you right there they know the truth. Like I said, pet ownership is about the human owner, they couldn't give a fuck how many animals die because of it. If they did care they would hold the same views as me. I know how stubbornly do-gooders hold onto the beliefs they are doing the right thing by animals by so called rescuing a dog, they do this because they have a need to feel good about themselves regardless of the cost to other life. The more saintly they view themselves, the more aggressively they react to someone pointing out the harm they are doing. I gave up years ago trying to do anything about it, the evil of do-gooders is almost impossible to overcome, mainly because they are in denial about the evil they participate in.
So what's your plan? Just execute all of the animals bred for pets? That's your "humane" solution? I have an idea: why don't you and PETA go fuck yourselves.
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Everyone I know who loves dogs more than people is a shitty human being who couldn't generate loving relationships with others, so turned to dogs because they could control the relationship and remain a cun+, therefore never having to develop a personality that others would warm to. It's one thing to love dogs, but to love them more than people, that's just plain wrong.
You can't even maintain or develop a loving lasting relationship with your family, let alone a woman. You speaking on relationships of any kind is just retarded.
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Like I said, shitty human beings with crappy personalities.
Your mom likes me immensely pal.
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You can't even maintain or develop a loving lasting relationship with your family, let alone a woman. You speaking on relationships of any kind is just retarded.
You know nothing of my relationships or their status. And I have relationships with some members of my family and choose not to have relationships with other members, and it is no coincidence that in my family the ones who happen to be extreme dog lovers are the most difficult personalities also. I have verified this time and time again, and again once more here at getbig. So I see my comment has brought the dog loving misanthropes out of the woodwork happy to prove my point.
And your comment once again reflects your ignorance, you automatically assume that you should have a loving relationship with your family, this is a recipe for disaster if you come from a dysfunctional or abusive family. I save my love for those who deserve it. I have many valued relationships outside of my family, those I love dearly and who return the sentiment.
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So what's your plan? Just execute all of the animals bred for pets? That's your "humane" solution? I have an idea: why don't you and PETA go fuck yourselves.
No, you stop breeding them moron, simple. This makes the current population the last generation. Amazing how you have to spell out the obvious to some dog lovers who seem even dumber than the dogs they love.
And you support the current situation, perpetual destruction of unwanted healthy dogs. You are a cun+ of a human being if that is your solution.
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You know nothing of my relationships or their status. And I have relationships with some members of my family and choose not to have relationships with other members, and it is no coincidence that in my family the ones who happen to be extreme dog lovers are the most difficult personalities also. I have verified this time and time again, and again once more here at getbig. So I see my comment has brought the dog loving misanthropes out of the woodwork happy to prove my point.
And your comment once again reflects your ignorance, you automatically assume that you should have a loving relationship with your family, this is a recipe for disaster if you come from a dysfunctional or abusive family. I save my love for those who deserve it. I have many valued relationships outside of my family, those I love dearly and who return the sentiment.
1. Hate Family-Check
2. Hate Women-Check
3. Hate Dogs-Check
Wow, you are a nice catch.
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1. Hate Family-Check
2. Hate Women-Check
3. Hate Dogs-Check
Wow, you are a nice catch.
1. Wrong about everything - check
2. Thinks they love dogs even though they participate in an industry that destroys them ad infinitum - Check
3. Hates humanity - Check
4. Projects shitty personality onto everyone else - Check
Wow, awesome human being.
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You know nothing of my relationships or their status. And I have relationships with some members of my family and choose not to have relationships with other members, and it is no coincidence that in my family the ones who happen to be extreme dog lovers are the most difficult personalities also. I have verified this time and time again, and again once more here at getbig. So I see my comment has brought the dog loving misanthropes out of the woodwork happy to prove my point.
And your comment once again reflects your ignorance, you automatically assume that you should have a loving relationship with your family, this is a recipe for disaster if you come from a dysfunctional or abusive family. I save my love for those who deserve it. I have many valued relationships outside of my family, those I love dearly and who return the sentiment.
Holy fuck, you sound like a total wank.
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Everyone I know who loves dogs more than people is a shitty human being who couldn't generate loving relationships with others, so turned to dogs because they could control the relationship and remain a cun+, therefore never having to develop a personality that others would warm to. It's one thing to love dogs, but to love them more than people, that's just plain wrong.
Hmmm would peg you as quite the dog lover.
Except the fact you're scared shitless of them :D
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Holy fuck, you sound like a total wank.
Yeah, I guess wanting to prevent healthy animals being euthanased because of do-gooders and not wanting to hang out with arseholes does make one quite the total wank. ::)
If you thought any other way I would be doing something wrong. ;D
I have dealt with dog nutters for years, such people claim to be good people but are easily exposed by some home truths. I often find their extreme love and need for dogs masks some extreme emotional or mental disturbance. This thread is the perfect example. All I am advocating for is the prevention of millions of healthy animals being unnecessarily destroyed, and look how upset the so called dog lovers become. Staggering really. I learned long ago, nothing will change, as human beings are by nature exploitative and have way too many blind spots to be able to overcome there more serious personality disorders, and such types refuse to seek the help they would need to do so.
Essentially the answer is simple, to prevent these mass animal killings all that would need to happen is for people to give up THEIR NEED to enslave an animal for their own selfish purposes. I don't mind people buying pets, because I have had to accept how fucked up human nature can be in those who lack insight. But do it realising you are part of an exploitative process, don't tell yourself you are an animal lover or rescuing an animal because you are not. You are doing it for your own selfish reasons, you are not a good person for it, quite the opposite.
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Just an FYI for "Radical Asshole"....I have hundreds of aquaintances,really great close friends who would bleed for me,a tight family,a wife I`ve been happily married to for 13 and 1/2 years and 3 dogs who love me unconditionally.
We`ve never argued before in all these years but as chaos said,you hate dogs because of the incident that happened to you whereas I love my dogs as if they were the children I never had.
I`d gladly do time if someone hurt my dogs and it would be their funeral and my trial.
Good luck with your phobia.........a good psychiatrist may help you regain your courage.
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Just an FYI for "Radical Asshole"....I have hundreds of aquaintances,really great close friends who would bleed for me,a tight family,a wife I`ve been happily married to for 13 and 1/2 years and 3 dogs who love me unconditionally.
We`ve never argued before in all these years but as chaos said,you hate dogs because of the incident that happened to you whereas I love my dogs as if they were the children I never had.
I`d gladly do time if someone hurt my dogs and it would be their funeral and my trial.
Good luck with your phobia.........a good psychiatrist may help you regain your courage.
I have actually overcome any fear I had of dogs, and yes, I did seek help for it. And I actually spend a fair amount of time around dogs with no problems. And yes a serious dog attack did cause me a pretty serious and inconvenient injury, quite a large financial loss as well as the loss of my business. But this isn't the reason for my views. I just don't think human beings wanting to own a companion animal is a good enough reason to create an industry that causes intense animal suffering with no end in sight. And it is more the views of the dog owners themselves that is bothersome, thinking they are rescuing or saving animals when the opposite is true. And just your willingness to do jail time over someone harming your dogs seems idiotic to me, and yet you have no problem with all the dogs that get harmed just so you can own YOUR dogs. Why are your dogs more important than all the other healthy unwanted dogs scheduled for destruction? Why, just because they are YOURS?
We can't actually OWN other life forms, but it is just the type of people who want to that are attracted to dog ownership, usually control freaks. I haven't even begun to talk about the ethics of artificial selection and the animal suffering this causes. It is such a perverse industry, and just because it brings some solace and comfort to little old ladies and lonely souls isn't a good enough reason for it in my opinion. Some goes with zoos and seaworld and all the other shitty exploitation of animals humans do because it makes them feel good.
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However, if humans didn't domesticate animals, or display them in zoos/aquariums/etc., we'd inevitably exterminate most all species from the planet.
Pick your poison.
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However, if humans didn't domesticate animals, or display them in zoos/aquariums/etc., we'd inevitably exterminate most all species from the planet.
Pick your poison.
This is true, but extinction absolves humans of any guilt and shame over profiting from animal exploitation and suffering. I am a cynic by nature and I am convinced humans will continue raping and pillaging the finite resources of the planet until they themselves become extinct.
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I have a rescue dog but he can't fly the helicopter for shit. Can't even put a bandaid on someone. I'd fire him but he's a volunteer.
Haha! You're wasted on this shithole of a site.
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Haha! You're wasted on this shithole of a site.
Thanks, man. Always came to work all day, every day. Never wandered off. Naturally outgoing. Even worked out how to climb ladders on his own. And get carried back down again.
From today:
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That is a very happy and very Australian looking dog you have. How old is he?
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16 1/2. We got old together. Glad he got to make it out of the 'burbs and have his country adventures.
I'm going with kelpie/heeler/german shepherd/corgie/dingo. It doesn't come across fully in pics but he's so animated and engaging that people can't resist him. Pulls more women than I do.
Ok ok, I'll quit boring every one with my dog. Someone else's turn. Kenny lad?
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I have actually overcome any fear I had of dogs, and yes, I did seek help for it. And I actually spend a fair amount of time around dogs with no problems. And yes a serious dog attack did cause me a pretty serious and inconvenient injury, quite a large financial loss as well as the loss of my business. But this isn't the reason for my views. I just don't think human beings wanting to own a companion animal is a good enough reason to create an industry that causes intense animal suffering with no end in sight. And it is more the views of the dog owners themselves that is bothersome, thinking they are rescuing or saving animals when the opposite is true. And just your willingness to do jail time over someone harming your dogs seems idiotic to me, and yet you have no problem with all the dogs that get harmed just so you can own YOUR dogs. Why are your dogs more important than all the other healthy unwanted dogs scheduled for destruction? Why, just because they are YOURS?
We can't actually OWN other life forms, but it is just the type of people who want to that are attracted to dog ownership, usually control freaks. I haven't even begun to talk about the ethics of artificial selection and the animal suffering this causes. It is such a perverse industry, and just because it brings some solace and comfort to little old ladies and lonely souls isn't a good enough reason for it in my opinion. Some goes with zoos and seaworld and all the other shitty exploitation of animals humans do because it makes them feel good.
All wiseass stuff aside,I sympathize with you and always have since you first told the story about the attack.
I`m sure it would traumatize anyone.
Glad you got help dude.
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16 1/2. We got old together. Glad he got to make it out of the 'burbs and have his country adventures.
I'm going with kelpie/heeler/german shepherd/corgie/dingo. It doesn't come across fully in pics but he's so animated and engaging that people can't resist him. Pulls more women than I do.
Ok ok, I'll quit boring every one with my dog. Someone else's turn. Kenny lad?
I love you Tape......even better than I love my dogs! ;)
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16 1/2. We got old together. Glad he got to make it out of the 'burbs and have his country adventures.
I'm going with kelpie/heeler/german shepherd/corgie/dingo. It doesn't come across fully in pics but he's so animated and engaging that people can't resist him. Pulls more women than I do.
Ok ok, I'll quit boring every one with my dog. Someone else's turn. Kenny lad?
Hes a cool looking dog. Need this kind of look when taking him for a walk:
(http://tomhalltravel.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/bush-tucker.jpg)
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THE DINGO ATE MY BABY!
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Hes a cool looking dog. Need this kind of look when taking him for a walk:
(http://tomhalltravel.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/bush-tucker.jpg)
This will never go out of style! Jolly swagmen, billabongs, jumbucks, tuckabags, and a dog in a ute.
I love you Tape......even better than I love my dogs! ;)
Bullshit but I'll play along. With 10% of my dog's charm, I'm 100% irresistible. :D
Taking the big truck in today. Ok when I don't need to carry another person since the entire passenger side of the cab has been covered beneath plywood, foam, and a blanket comprising one gigantic dog bed from seat back to dashboard. Everyone knows you get there faster if you smear your nose on the windshield.
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Yeah, I guess wanting to prevent healthy animals being euthanased because of do-gooders and not wanting to hang out with arseholes does make one quite the total wank. ::)
If you thought any other way I would be doing something wrong. ;D
I have dealt with dog nutters for years, such people claim to be good people but are easily exposed by some home truths. I often find their extreme love and need for dogs masks some extreme emotional or mental disturbance. This thread is the perfect example. All I am advocating for is the prevention of millions of healthy animals being unnecessarily destroyed, and look how upset the so called dog lovers become. Staggering really. I learned long ago, nothing will change, as human beings are by nature exploitative and have way too many blind spots to be able to overcome there more serious personality disorders, and such types refuse to seek the help they would need to do so.
Essentially the answer is simple, to prevent these mass animal killings all that would need to happen is for people to give up THEIR NEED to enslave an animal for their own selfish purposes. I don't mind people buying pets, because I have had to accept how fucked up human nature can be in those who lack insight. But do it realising you are part of an exploitative process, don't tell yourself you are an animal lover or rescuing an animal because you are not. You are doing it for your own selfish reasons, you are not a good person for it, quite the opposite.
I won't even read that. Lmao
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All wiseass stuff aside,I sympathize with you and always have since you first told the story about the attack.
I`m sure it would traumatize anyone.
Glad you got help dude.
Thanks Man, I do actually appreciate the sentiment. I have to work hard to not get too emotional when these types of issues come up. I used to think I was pretty tough until I squared off with a couple of angry pitbulls. I soon learned my limitations, but I am grateful it wasn't a lot worse. I have corresponded with parents who have lost children to dog attacks and victims who have lost limbs and other horrendous injuries, so I suppose I come at the issue from a unique perspective. And it actually crept up on me psychologically, I suppose that's why they call it Post Traumatic Stress, at first my priority was to just get walking and back into life which took a good 6 months but it was around the one year mark I started to slip mentally. I tried hard to fight against it but I did fall in a huge hole mentally for years to come after it. I feel I am well on the other side of it now and I credit weight training to a big part of my improvement, as well as some pretty intense psychotherapy.
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Serious dog question. Looking to get a German Sheppard but deciding between Male and Female. Don't want a dog with his cock hanging out all over the place.
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Serious dog question. Looking to get a German Sheppard but deciding between Male and Female. Don't want a dog with his cock hanging out all over the place.
splay or neuter your pets , it's supposed to extend their lives...as bob barker always says...
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All I know is that my rescue dog saved my life. I was walking the trail by my house and aliens came by spaceship. They seem to have some kind of discussion that I couldn't understand and they took the dog leaving me holding a plastic bag of dog poop. I guess they thought I was just a flunky following the master picking up his poop. Sorry for the old joke but I'm old.
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splay or neuter your pets , it's supposed to extend their lives...as bob barker always says...
Neutering doesn't stop the cock from dangling.