Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: MAXX on August 12, 2018, 05:16:18 AM
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fcking huge for a natty. If he really was
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fcking huge for a natty. If he really was
Do you think Reeves was Maybe BI ?
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Do you think Reeves was Maybe BI ?
That handshake did linger on a bit. lol.
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That handshake did linger on a bit. lol.
LOL
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I’m not really sure why people don’t think he was natty. He was a big dude for his time but not unattainable without juice.
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Reeves had that same physique when he was 16.
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Dude looked pretty good here.
(http://www.musclemunch.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/steve-reeves-classic.jpg)
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Yup. 100% natural. Especially so if that was a VW Karmann Ghia he dropped down into. ;) Cool car. Now that's something worth regretting - not buying one when I had the chance.
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Natural. Just excellent structure and muscle shape.
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I Believe he started experiment with testosterone in about 55- 56
Testosterone was available even from late 40's
that video above was shot in 56...
In the year 1957 dianabol was invented and available, especially for famous people like Steve Reeves. Steve was friends with Reg Park. I suspect Steve and Reg started experimenting with dbol that year, 1957. Steve Reeves probably quit it and focused on acting because he seemed to get smaller after that time.
These pics are from 1957:
(http://i.imgur.com/aPUjT.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TQV6H2OSnqU/U8GRpMi5LuI/AAAAAAAAOxg/dLhRQH-Sxaw/s1600/1957MuscleBeach.jpg)
Reg Park 1957:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0DdeU39wHPI/WTxEZzUMtkI/AAAAAAAAJks/cDKT51jYtKgZFyBXH5cyKXpOC0ARkZU5wCLcB/s1600/Reg%2B1957-58.jpg)
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ridiculous genetics, no need for steroids
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I Believe he started experiment with testosterone in about 55- 56
Testosterone was available even from late 40's
that video above was shot in 56...
In the year 1957 dianabol was invented and available, especially for famous people like Steve Reeves. Steve was friends with Reg Park. I suspect Steve and Reg started experimenting with dbol that year, 1957. Steve Reeves probably quit it and focused on acting because he seemed to get smaller after that time.
These pics are from 1957:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TQV6H2OSnqU/U8GRpMi5LuI/AAAAAAAAOxg/dLhRQH-Sxaw/s1600/1957MuscleBeach.jpg)
From left to right it looks like Reeves, Tommy Kono (great lifter!), Reg Park and Zabo!
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I Believe he started experiment with testosterone in about 55- 56
Testosterone was available even from late 40's
that video above was shot in 56...
In the year 1957 dianabol was invented and available, especially for famous people like Steve Reeves. Steve was friends with Reg Park. I suspect Steve and Reg started experimenting with dbol that year, 1957. Steve Reeves probably quit it and focused on acting because he seemed to get smaller after that time.
These pics are from 1957:
Reg Park 1957:
You can believe what you like but facts are facts
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections (oral testosterone was known to be clinically ineffective by that time). By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, injectable testosterone was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes, before that time. De Kruif himself made no clear connection between testosterone use and possible athletic applications, though he did briefly raise the question if it could surpass the effects of large vitamin doses in baseball players - aside from this single sentence, his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to restore the vitality and health of hypogonadal and aging men.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. There were, in fact, two companies in California advertising "genuine testosterone" tablets through mail order in the late 1940s, but were ordered to stop by the FDA in early-to-mid 1951 when regulations to control the distribution of controlled substances were tightened. It was well known by researchers at that time, however, that the liver effectively clears almost all orally ingested testosterone within seconds, even very large doses (clearance rate of 24.5mg/min/kg), so these tablets would have produced no effects even if they did contain crystalline testosterone. The low bioavailability of oral testosterone is precisely why injections were used in early research and why synthetic steroids were eventually developed.
It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to bioavailable testosterone before 1954-55 and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before then - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was effectively using testosterone for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential athletic effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively rarely used prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. Nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, injectable testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was available for research purposes only, with the FDA tightening regulations and enforcement in the early 1950s. Ads for "genuine testosterone tablets" were placed in national newspapers by two California companies from 1946 to 1951, but the actual ingredients of these tablets were uncontrolled, cannot be verified, and due to the body's clearance rate oral testosterone would be inconsequential anyway. For a bodybuilder to be effectively using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential athletic applications of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity for a public or prescription market. "Snake oil" ads for testosterone tablets, even if they contained what was advertised (which in itself was vague), would not have significantly impacted blood testosterone levels due to the liver's massive testosterone clearance rate and cannot be considered a reliable source.
For these reasons it can be stated with near certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using bioavailable testosterone or synthetic steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he weighed 226 lbs when he won the Mr. Britain title in 1949, 214 lbs when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, 215 lbs when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 lbs when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
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You can believe what you like but facts are facts
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections (oral testosterone was known to be clinically ineffective by that time). By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, injectable testosterone was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes, before that time. De Kruif himself made no clear connection between testosterone use and possible athletic applications, though he did briefly raise the question if it could surpass the effects of large vitamin doses in baseball players - aside from this single sentence, his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to restore the vitality and health of hypogonadal and aging men.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. There were, in fact, two companies in California advertising "genuine testosterone" tablets through mail order in the late 1940s, but were ordered to stop by the FDA in early-to-mid 1951 when regulations to control the distribution of controlled substances were tightened. It was well known by researchers at that time, however, that the liver effectively clears almost all orally ingested testosterone within seconds, even very large doses (clearance rate of 24.5mg/min/kg), so these tablets would have produced no effects even if they did contain crystalline testosterone. The low bioavailability of oral testosterone is precisely why injections were used in early research and why synthetic steroids were eventually developed.
It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to bioavailable testosterone before 1954-55 and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before then - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was effectively using testosterone for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential athletic effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively rarely used prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. Nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, injectable testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was available for research purposes only, with the FDA tightening regulations and enforcement in the early 1950s. Ads for "genuine testosterone tablets" were placed in national newspapers by two California companies from 1946 to 1951, but the actual ingredients of these tablets were uncontrolled, cannot be verified, and due to the body's clearance rate oral testosterone would be inconsequential anyway. For a bodybuilder to be effectively using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential athletic applications of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity for a public or prescription market. "Snake oil" ads for testosterone tablets, even if they contained what was advertised (which in itself was vague), would not have significantly impacted blood testosterone levels due to the liver's massive testosterone clearance rate and cannot be considered a reliable source.
For these reasons it can be stated with near certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using bioavailable testosterone or synthetic steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he weighed 226 lbs when he won the Mr. Britain title in 1949, 214 lbs when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, 215 lbs when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 lbs when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
That states exactly what i suspected and said...
1956- Testosterone available for general pubic. (Reeves has the test look and demeanour in above video)
1958- Dianabol may have been available for top bodybuilder competitors (I definately think they where)
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You can believe what you like but facts are facts
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections (oral testosterone was known to be clinically ineffective by that time). By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, injectable testosterone was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes, before that time. De Kruif himself made no clear connection between testosterone use and possible athletic applications, though he did briefly raise the question if it could surpass the effects of large vitamin doses in baseball players - aside from this single sentence, his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to restore the vitality and health of hypogonadal and aging men.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. There were, in fact, two companies in California advertising "genuine testosterone" tablets through mail order in the late 1940s, but were ordered to stop by the FDA in early-to-mid 1951 when regulations to control the distribution of controlled substances were tightened. It was well known by researchers at that time, however, that the liver effectively clears almost all orally ingested testosterone within seconds, even very large doses (clearance rate of 24.5mg/min/kg), so these tablets would have produced no effects even if they did contain crystalline testosterone. The low bioavailability of oral testosterone is precisely why injections were used in early research and why synthetic steroids were eventually developed.
It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to bioavailable testosterone before 1954-55 and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before then - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was effectively using testosterone for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential athletic effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively rarely used prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. Nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, injectable testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was available for research purposes only, with the FDA tightening regulations and enforcement in the early 1950s. Ads for "genuine testosterone tablets" were placed in national newspapers by two California companies from 1946 to 1951, but the actual ingredients of these tablets were uncontrolled, cannot be verified, and due to the body's clearance rate oral testosterone would be inconsequential anyway. For a bodybuilder to be effectively using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential athletic applications of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity for a public or prescription market. "Snake oil" ads for testosterone tablets, even if they contained what was advertised (which in itself was vague), would not have significantly impacted blood testosterone levels due to the liver's massive testosterone clearance rate and cannot be considered a reliable source.
For these reasons it can be stated with near certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using bioavailable testosterone or synthetic steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he weighed 226 lbs when he won the Mr. Britain title in 1949, 214 lbs when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, 215 lbs when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 lbs when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
I believe steriods in a raw form were used in the war years by the Military to aid recovery.
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You can believe what you like but facts are facts
Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections (oral testosterone was known to be clinically ineffective by that time). By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, injectable testosterone was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes, before that time. De Kruif himself made no clear connection between testosterone use and possible athletic applications, though he did briefly raise the question if it could surpass the effects of large vitamin doses in baseball players - aside from this single sentence, his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to restore the vitality and health of hypogonadal and aging men.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. There were, in fact, two companies in California advertising "genuine testosterone" tablets through mail order in the late 1940s, but were ordered to stop by the FDA in early-to-mid 1951 when regulations to control the distribution of controlled substances were tightened. It was well known by researchers at that time, however, that the liver effectively clears almost all orally ingested testosterone within seconds, even very large doses (clearance rate of 24.5mg/min/kg), so these tablets would have produced no effects even if they did contain crystalline testosterone. The low bioavailability of oral testosterone is precisely why injections were used in early research and why synthetic steroids were eventually developed.
It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to bioavailable testosterone before 1954-55 and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before then - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was effectively using testosterone for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential athletic effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively rarely used prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. Nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, injectable testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was available for research purposes only, with the FDA tightening regulations and enforcement in the early 1950s. Ads for "genuine testosterone tablets" were placed in national newspapers by two California companies from 1946 to 1951, but the actual ingredients of these tablets were uncontrolled, cannot be verified, and due to the body's clearance rate oral testosterone would be inconsequential anyway. For a bodybuilder to be effectively using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential athletic applications of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity for a public or prescription market. "Snake oil" ads for testosterone tablets, even if they contained what was advertised (which in itself was vague), would not have significantly impacted blood testosterone levels due to the liver's massive testosterone clearance rate and cannot be considered a reliable source.
For these reasons it can be stated with near certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using bioavailable testosterone or synthetic steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he weighed 226 lbs when he won the Mr. Britain title in 1949, 214 lbs when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, 215 lbs when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 lbs when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
That is a bunch of nonsense.
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That is a bunch of nonsense.
Because you say so ::) There is an established time-line of drug use Reeves predates it , if you have any facts feel free to share them. Keep in mind I said facts, not hearsay , antidotes , rumors , suspicions , theories , guesses , conspiracies , etc , facts.
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Because you say so ::) There is an established time-line of drug use Reeves predates it , if you have any facts feel free to share them. Keep in mind I said facts, not hearsay , antidotes , rumors , suspicions , theories , guesses , conspiracies , etc , facts.
Steroids were used in WW2. Fact.
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That states exactly what i suspected and said...
1956- Testosterone available for general pubic. (Reeves has the test look and demeanour in above video)
1958- Dianabol may have been available for top bodybuilder competitors (I definately think they where)
You must have NOT read it because Ziegler used test on Gremick and it didn't work among other athletes and Steve Reeves retired in 1950 !!!
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Steroids were used in WW2. Fact.
Prove it , don't type it. There are rumors it was used but NO proof.
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Prove it , don't type it. There are rumors it was used but NO proof.
like your posts about steroids..rumors. trust me even Grimek used roids. Not saying Reeves did but later, I only used to train for one month a year..LOL come on do you not think he used a bit of Test?
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like your posts about steroids..rumors. trust me even Grimek used roids. Not saying Reeves did but later, I only used to train for one month a year..LOL come on do you not think he used a bit of Test?
Grimek may have in the later years but again , there is an established time-line for drug use and they actually both predate it
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These pics are from 1957:
(https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/3f3fb49a15d04e1ebc836a66ba9f340c/5BA71A37/t51.2885-15/e35/26871722_1891345341176632_4255879691992301568_n.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TQV6H2OSnqU/U8GRpMi5LuI/AAAAAAAAOxg/dLhRQH-Sxaw/s1600/1957MuscleBeach.jpg)
dang, he looked bigger there, this is 1958
(http://footage.framepool.com/shotimg/qf/252731468-steve-reeves-surveying-vanity-bathing-trunks.jpg)
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Grimek may have in the later years but again , there is an established time-line for drug use and they actually both predate it
Where is your proof that Steroids were not used during WW2?
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All these guys from the 50s throughout the Golden Era... all seemed to have amazing pec development no matter their level at the time when compared to today's pros compared to their size)
Wonder what they did differently back then?
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From left to right it looks like Reeves, Tommy Kono (great lifter!), Reg Park and Zabo!
Thats not Tommy,but the rest look to be correct. is that Reg though, seems a bit soft? Does look like him facially...
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All these guys from the 50s throughout the Golden Era... all seemed to have amazing pec development no matter their level at the time when compared to today's pros compared to their size)
Wonder what they did differently back then?
Less drugs?
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fcking huge for a natty. If he really was
btw... reeves looks super gay in this vid... swimming in men. just another phaggot burning in hell now.
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Where is your proof that Steroids were not used during WW2?
where is your proof that they were?
To the best of my knowledge, the rumor that steroids were in use during ww2 stems from typically exaggerated tales about nazis trying to create super soldiers. That it was a german chemist who first isolated testosterone doesn't help the runaway imaginations of some people, and of course the very real use of amphetamines.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09523367.2014.884563?src=recsys&journalCode=fhsp20
in short; at least as far as nazis were concerned, no there is no evidence they ever used testosterone or any other anabolic steroid. People repeating something over and over again for decades =/= fact. Hitler's physician gave him a testes extract from pulverized bull testes. If testosterone esters (the only reliable form) were so readily available as to be the backbone of a drug program for soldiers, then why on earth would his physician waste time with what is effectively homeopathy in comparison? It stands to reason this was never anything more than ridiculous fantasy, the kind that was commonly engaged in post-war where a little truth is stretched into a ridiculous lie to make the nazis seem even more extreme (as if what they actually did wasnt enough)
Alleged steroid use in the treatment of malnourished and poor condition POWs in hospitals is possible and seems much more likely than the eye rolling, masturbatory teenage fantasy about super soldiers ::) but again seems to lack any solid reference.
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All these guys from the 50s throughout the Golden Era... all seemed to have amazing pec development no matter their level at the time when compared to today's pros compared to their size)
Wonder what they did differently back then?
More volume? A lot of dips? Actually using proper range with high volume? Not being pregnant with triplets so the pecs don't get overpowered visually?
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btw... reeves looks super gay in this vid... swimming in men. just another phaggot burning in hell now.
Not gay.. He had a wife most part of his life...
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Not gay.. He had a wife most part of his life...
He had a couple of wives
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More volume? A lot of dips? Actually using proper range with high volume? Not being pregnant with triplets so the pecs don't get overpowered visually?
LOL... thats probably it.... they're waists were amazing
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Not gay.. He had a wife most part of his life...
Steve Reeves was heterosexual. Women LOVED him. The man was handsome and built like no one before or since (Jim Haislop came close). Just because you hang out with your friends who are, like you, male, doesn't mean you're homosexual. I really don't know many guys that hang out predominately with women.
Okay. I don't know of any that do so. ;D And Reeves was married three times in his life.
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not commenting in support of either position, but i would just point out that being married is not at all proof a man isn't gay; indeed, many famous hollywood closet homosexuals have dated beautiful women and even been married to them. Including today.
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From left to right it looks like Reeves, Tommy Kono (great lifter!), Reg Park and Zabo!
not tommy kono but timmy leong.
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:D
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I'm not convinced... something is off about the dude (outside of the obvious phaggotry, lol) – he was queer.
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many famous hollywood closet homosexuals have dated beautiful women and even been married to them. Including today.
reeves obviously performed homosexual acts, hollywood necessitates such perversion..... but I think he liked it, and indulged out of desire.
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notice... the curvature of the wrist, while in action... that appears to b a limp wristed phaggot, to me.
(http://www.musclemunch.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Steve-Reeves-punching.jpg)
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and here, while holding this phallic shaped microphone... high and tight - a defined curvature of the wrist, not to mention.. a certain tenderness, if we're honest
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/owFkxc_VnrQ/hqdefault.jpg)
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and here, while holding this phallic shaped microphone... high and tight - a defined curvature of the wrist, not to mention.. a certain tenderness, if we're honest
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/owFkxc_VnrQ/hqdefault.jpg)
;)
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That's Timmy Leong of Hawaii and not Tommy Kono ... also of Hawaii.
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:D
The bottom pic of Reeves is amazing! Now that’s what a bodybuilder should look like.
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Looks tremendous here
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Might be a bit off subject here but there is a new movie to be released soon about a group of WWII US soldiers discoverinfg a deserted laboratory in which German scientist were in the process of creating a breed of super-soldiers (roid abusers?) and suceeded with trumatic results to the detriment of those US soldiers!
Or something like that?
Anyone know the name of that one or can you name the bodybuilders who auditioned for the principal roles?
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Might be a bit off subject here but there is a new movie to be released soon about a group of WWII US soldiers discoverinfg a deserted laboratory in which German scientist were in the process of creating a breed of super-soldiers (roid abusers?) and suceeded with trumatic results to the detriment of those US soldiers!
Or something like that?
Anyone know the name of that one or can you name the bodybuilders who auditioned for the principal roles?
That sounds right up Ziltch's "alley"
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reeves obviously performed homosexual acts, hollywood necessitates such perversion..... but I think he liked it, and indulged out of desire.
*SNICKER*
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disappointed, thought "steve reeves at his biggest" would include full erect penis
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At 6 ft 1 (185 cm) Reeves was tall for his time
And even a lot taller than most "pro's" today.....
Not to mention a lot better looking
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All these guys from the 50s throughout the Golden Era... all seemed to have amazing pec development no matter their level at the time when compared to today's pros compared to their size)
Wonder what they did differently back then?
Lots of benches inclines and flyes..............not crossovers and pec-decks. :(
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Lots of benches inclines and flyes..............not crossovers and pec-decks. :(
Also I think it’s the illusion in today, the over developed shoulders, proportions out of wack big arms relative to height and of course beloated physiques compared to the old days
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The 40’s, 50’s, 60’s seem like the time to live being in California on he beach
Now it’s so shitty, overpopulated, illegals, etc
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The 40’s, 50’s, 60’s seem like the time to live being in California on he beach
Now it’s so shitty, overpopulated, illegals, etc
beach boys era for sure -
he lived and died the fitness lifestyle so i will give him the benefit of the doubt - good genetics, lifestyle, his career
if he used test or dbol he was still a badass one way or the other
arnold...ive heard rumors he had to get his bills paid too... hmmm
fyi big fan of them both
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The 40’s, 50’s, 60’s seem like the time to live being in California on he beach
Now it’s so shitty, overpopulated, illegals, etc
The early to mid 70s were pretty good too. Trust me on this. ;D
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Lean and huge. You dopes think he's natural when his best build is like 80% of a 70s Arnold? Lordy.
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The early to mid 70s were pretty good too. Trust me on this. ;D
I am jealous >:(
:D
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The early to mid 70s were pretty good too. Trust me on this. ;D
I’m sure of that. What fun times I would imagine
Stunt seems to have lived through the 50’s and up in southern Cali
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Massive!
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BEVO, Thanks ... and YES, I've have personally experienced and seen most and met most of the individuals and events that have been mevtioned on this GetBig Board with the exception of feet in paper bags and some damn ice-machine in the Mirage.
I first met Reeves around the age of six (my dad knew him well) and I continued to run into Steve during various parts of my lifetime and had the pleasure to work with him and his wife a few years before he passed away.
And I have met or worked with some of Steve's good friends and associates ... noteably George Eifferman and a handful of other old-timers most of whom you have never heard of but actually were the pioneers of this fitness, bodybuilding, supplement industry.
As we all grow older, we will most definitely claim that the earlier decades of our lifetime were better than the present .... and that is DEFINITELY TRUE when I remenis about my own personal lifetime experence.
And as your own years pass you by, I am positive that you will definitely agree!
I just hope you live long enough to agree.
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BEVO, Thanks ... and YES, I've have personally experienced and seen most and met most of the individuals and events that have been mevtioned on this GetBig Boardwith the exception of feet in paper bags and some damn ice-machine in the Mirage.
I first met Reeves around the age of six (my dad knew him well) and I continued to run into Steve during various parts of my lifetime and had the pleasure to work with him and his wife a few years before he passed away.
And I have met or worked with some of Steve's good friends nd associates ... noteably George Eifferman and a handful of other old-timers most of whom you have never heard of but actually were the pioneers of this fitness, bodybuilding, supplement industry.
As we all grown older, we will most definitely claim that the earlier decades of our lifetime were better than the present .... and that is DEFINITELY TRUE when I remenis aboutmy own personal lifetime experence.
And as your own years pass you by, I am positive that you will definitely agree!
Nice Story but times move on Pops.
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BEVO, Thanks ... and YES, I've have personally experienced and seen most and met most of the individuals and events that have been mevtioned on this GetBig Board with the exception of feet in paper bags and some damn ice-machine in the Mirage.
I first met Reeves around the age of six (my dad knew him well) and I continued to run into Steve during various parts of my lifetime and had the pleasure to work with him and his wife a few years before he passed away.
And I have met or worked with some of Steve's good friends and associates ... noteably George Eifferman and a handful of other old-timers most of whom you have never heard of but actually were the pioneers of this fitness, bodybuilding, supplement industry.
As we all grow older, we will most definitely claim that the earlier decades of our lifetime were better than the present .... and that is DEFINITELY TRUE when I remenis about my own personal lifetime experence.
And as your own years pass you by, I am positive that you will definitely agree!
I just hope you live long enough to agree.
eiferman was one of the early mass monsters for the time.
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Full body workouts in those days.
It worked.
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Full body workouts in those days.
It worked.
Yep. Guys are bigger now but certainly not better. Once you get past a certain level of muscle size you actually look like a fat guy.
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Big full wide pecs from not having over developed delts, one of the biggest contributing factors to this is the amount of crap they shoot into arms and shoulders, basically since they upped the dose, a lot more oil has been shot into the delts and arms. Guys trained harder years ago, now they just take more drugs.
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Robert Kennedy told me several times Steve experimented with steroids/testosterone throughout his career.
I’ll take Bob’s word for it.
Regardless, Reeves was a superior man, in the physical sense. Amazing build and structure and incredibly handsome.
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Robert Kennedy told me several times Steve experimented with steroids/testosterone throughout his career.
I’ll take Bob’s word for it.
does anyone honestly doubt it? look at the way his quads r blown up here... quite the growth spurt, lol
(https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/3f3fb49a15d04e1ebc836a66ba9f340c/5BA71A37/t51.2885-15/e35/26871722_1891345341176632_4255879691992301568_n.jpg)
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Robert Kennedy told me several times Steve experimented with steroids/testosterone throughout his career.
I’ll take Bob’s word for it.
Regardless, Reeves was a superior man, in the physical sense. Amazing build and structure and incredibly handsome.
Sergio Oliva said Reeves took steroids , it doesn't matter who said what , facts are still facts. " steroids " weren't made until after he retired. And Dr John Ziegler experimented with testosterone to no avail , again after Reeves retired. There is an established time-line of steroids & testosterone use in bodybuilders & strength athletes , Reeves simply predates this.
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Sergio Oliva said Reeves took steroids , it doesn't matter who said what , facts are still facts. " steroids " weren't made until after he retired. And Dr John Ziegler experimented with testosterone to no avail , again after Reeves retired. There is an established time-line of steroids & testosterone use in bodybuilders & strength athletes , Reeves simply predates this.
I’ll take the word of a (storied) man who routinely hung and lifted with these men. But thanks.
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I’ll take the word of a (storied) man who routinely hung and lifted with these men. But thanks.
And I'll take the word of the man himself.
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And I'll take the word of the man himself.
Sure. Whatever. But we know every bodybuilder lies concerning his drug use.
I’ve spent time on a few occasions with Bill Pearl. One of the nicest and most charming men I’ve ever had the pleasure to know. He’s told me he has never used steroids of any sort. Total horseshit.
Just saying.
No matter, though. We’ll all believe what we want to.
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Sure. Whatever. But we know every bodybuilder lies concerning his drug use.
I’ve spent time on a few occasions with Bill Pearl. One of the nicest and most charming men I’ve ever had the pleasure to know. He’s told me he has never used steroids of any sort. Total horseshit.
Just saying.
No matter, though. We’ll all believe what we want to.
Reeves wouldn't have to lie about any use because they weren't illegal. And Pearl admitted he did steroids in a Muscle & Fitness article back in the 80s. ???
I don't have a problem with steroids , I think they should be legal to purchase over the counter and used properly under a doctors supervision. But there was a time before steroids entered the equation , there is an established timeline of testosterone use then anabolics and Reeves is simply before this time. I would raise and eyebrow is Reeves was 6'1" 240lbs in 1947. He was 215lbs that can't be understated , he wasn't even the biggest guy back then!! You know your history , bodybuilders didn't start getting much heavier until 1960 and after. Larry Scott was 5'7" and 208lbs Reeves was 6'1" and 215lbs ! Scott was 6" shorter and just 7lbs lighter , obviously Scott's genetics pale in comparison to Reeves, so entertaining he was on test/anabolics they did absolutely nothing for him. Arnold around the same height as Reeves 25lbs heavier , See a pattern here?
When you take that into account along with the established timeline of drug use and Reeves being vehemently opposed to steroids , I think the answer is pretty clear. Like you we all believe what we want , some of us just but more research into what we believe ;D
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does anyone honestly doubt it? look at the way his quads r blown up here... quite the growth spurt, lol
What year is that photo from?
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Robert Kennedy told me several times Steve experimented with steroids/testosterone throughout his career.
I’ll take Bob’s word for it.
Regardless, Reeves was a superior man, in the physical sense. Amazing build and structure and incredibly handsome.
There was also a Story About Steve's last wife being unfaithful & more than once. Messed with his head so i was told. Maybe he was not the He Man everyone thought & given he married 3 times well ….
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Sure. Whatever. But we know every bodybuilder lies concerning his drug use.
I’ve spent time on a few occasions with Bill Pearl. One of the nicest and most charming men I’ve ever had the pleasure to know. He’s told me he has never used steroids of any sort. Total horseshit.
Just saying.
No matter, though. We’ll all believe what we want to. pearl admitted to doing a cycle in this book.
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one of his last covers at age 57.
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one of his last covers at age 57.
Looked great for 57. still think he juiced & was BI
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Looked great for 57. still think he juiced & was BI
So he juiced in the 40's, 50's, 60', 70's and 80's. That's how long he was built. He had a better build than almost everyone on this board when he was 15. He was built in the military during World War II. Was he juicing in the war? His physique only went south when his health failed. He competed before the first anabolic steroid was made. Yes, testosterone was available but who would have known in the bodybuilding world to inject it? I think fans and users of steroids can't believe anyone can be muscular with drugs because they can't do it. Reeves was about 6'1" and 215lbs. That is not huge. He will be talked about long after Health is forgotten.
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So he juiced in the 40's, 50's, 60', 70's and 80's. That's how long he was built. He had a better build than almost everyone on this board when he was 15. He was built in the military during World War II. Was he juicing in the war? His physique only went south when his health failed. He competed before the first anabolic steroid was made. Yes, testosterone was available but who would have known in the bodybuilding world to inject it? I think fans and users of steroids can't believe anyone can be muscular with drugs because they can't do it. Reeves was about 6'1" and 215lbs. That is not huge. He will be talked about long after Health is forgotten.
But was he BI? he used Test.
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But was he BI? he used Test.
lol- that idea of bisexuality has taken hold of you.
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So he juiced in the 40's, 50's, 60', 70's and 80's. That's how long he was built. He had a better build than almost everyone on this board when he was 15. He was built in the military during World War II. Was he juicing in the war? His physique only went south when his health failed. He competed before the first anabolic steroid was made. Yes, testosterone was available but who would have known in the bodybuilding world to inject it? I think fans and users of steroids can't believe anyone can be muscular with drugs because they can't do it. Reeves was about 6'1" and 215lbs. That is not huge. He will be talked about long after Health is forgotten.
Arnold was nearly 6 ft 2 (187 cm) in his prime and off gear weighed about 210 lbs or 95 kilos
Perhaps Reeves his weight was a bit exaggerated, so maybe he was also around 210 lbs
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:D
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I’ll take the word of a (storied) man who routinely hung and lifted with these men. But thanks.
did kennedy, a gay man... who spent a lot of time with reeves, also a gay man... have any gay stories about reeves?
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Why does every single thread on GetBig become "gay-themed" ? WTF?
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Why does every single thread on GetBig become "gay-themed" ? WTF?
cant speak 4 'every thread', but when the thread is specifically about a phaggot... well
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did kennedy, a gay man... who spent a lot of time with reeves, also a gay man... have any gay stories about reeves?
Bob was absolutely not gay. The man was as hot for tits and pussy as any I’ve ever encountered. Now, his fashion sense was a little ... unique ... LOL
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Bob was absolutely not gay.
did he ever mention anything about reeves, tho?
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did kennedy, a gay man... who spent a lot of time with reeves, also a gay man... have any gay stories about reeves?
U A COMPLETE MORON ..................
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did he ever mention anything about reeves, tho?
Ask your allah ..................
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Facially Reeves resemble my buddy Kevin perod
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Why does every single thread on GetBig become "gay-themed" ? WTF?
It was very Gay in them Days.. :D
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BEVO, What ever did happen to Kevin?
The last time I saw him was while he was working one of the booths for a major suppliment company at the Oly Expo ...maybe two to two three years back ..... and I did mention to him that he was better than Reeves when Reeves was at his best at the time when he (Perod) received that sword as the winner of one of the regional NPC contests in Tx.
If I recall right Kevin was the owner of a thriving auto detail business down Texas way.
Is he still competng or at least still training hard?
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Steve Reeves was heterosexual. Women LOVED him. The man was handsome and built like no one before or since (Jim Haislop came close). Just because you hang out with your friends who are, like you, male, doesn't mean you're homosexual. I really don't know many guys that hang out predominately with women.
Okay. I don't know of any that do so. ;D And Reeves was married three times in his life.
straight as straight can be
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Steve's size with that level of conditioning is absolutely attainable drug free. His structure,muscle shape,proportions and symmetry combined with handsome face is what made him the legend that he is,not that he was unbelievably huge/ripped. This+the lack of evidence steroids were used in his era makes his natural status pretty believable to me.
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BEVO, Thanks ... and YES, I've have personally experienced and seen most and met most of the individuals and events that have been mevtioned on this GetBig Board with the exception of feet in paper bags and some damn ice-machine in the Mirage.
I first met Reeves around the age of six (my dad knew him well) and I continued to run into Steve during various parts of my lifetime and had the pleasure to work with him and his wife a few years before he passed away.
And I have met or worked with some of Steve's good friends and associates ... noteably George Eifferman and a handful of other old-timers most of whom you have never heard of but actually were the pioneers of this fitness, bodybuilding, supplement industry.
As we all grow older, we will most definitely claim that the earlier decades of our lifetime were better than the present .... and that is DEFINITELY TRUE when I remenis about my own personal lifetime experence.
And as your own years pass you by, I am positive that you will definitely agree!
I just hope you live long enough to agree.
Thanks for that.
Reeves was definitely on something, even if it was certain drugs such as cocaine to cut. Way too lean and big for a natural, especially at his height. A definitive 3d look to him attained by some sort of substance. Not that I'm knocking the dude, he was the definition of aesthetics, but if you don't think he was using substances then you are mistaken.
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The people who believe Steve Reeves was on gear must have never had their own good physiques, so they claim anyone who is superior to them are on drugs. Losers!
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Thanks for that.
Reeves was definitely on something, even if it was certain drugs such as cocaine to cut. Way too lean and big for a natural, especially at his height. A definitive 3d look to him attained by some sort of substance. Not that I'm knocking the dude, he was the definition of aesthetics, but if you don't think he was using substances then you are mistaken.
Anyone can think something but to actually know the truth is entirely different. Reeves never looked like he was on even testosterone. He was what everyone wishes they could be, the much storied "God's gift to women everywhere" as well as an inspirational figure to young men the world over.
People want to believe that something unattainble by everyone is impossible. I suppose Reeves just said, "Impossible? Nah...I'm possible" and went to work developing himself to his potential.
Aesop wrote of this form of jealousy. I suggest reading the fable of the fox and the grapes. I will never look as good but that doesn't mean someone didn't. That someone was Steve Reeves.
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Anyone can think something but to actually know the truth is entirely different. Reeves never looked like he was on even testosterone. He was what everyone wishes they could be, the much storied "God's gift to women everywhere" as well as an inspirational figure to young men the world over.
People want to believe that something unattainble by everyone is impossible. I suppose Reeves just said, "Impossible? Nah...I'm possible" and went to work developing himself to his potential.
Aesop wrote of this form of jealousy. I suggest reading the fable of the fox and the grapes. I will never look as good but that doesn't mean someone didn't. That someone was Steve Reeves.
So what does someone on testosterone look like? Sorry to burst your bubble man, but the dude was using any form of substance as I stated, cocaine being a great substance used to cut, even most likely used by the OG bodybuilder Eugene Sandow. There is no "genetics" factor to bodybuilding you either roid and get big or stay natty and be small, it's really that simple. Steve Reeves was on things, what, I don't know but in an era where bodybuilding was barely a thing and they didn't even have a proper working out method or any idea of eating right he had to be on something, whether drugs or steroids or both.
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cocaine to cut
probably got coked out 4 his homo activities as well lol
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So what does someone on testosterone look like? Sorry to burst your bubble man, but the dude was using any form of substance as I stated, cocaine being a great substance used to cut, even most likely used by the OG bodybuilder Eugene Sandow. There is no "genetics" factor to bodybuilding you either roid and get big or stay natty and be small, it's really that simple. Steve Reeves was on things, what, I don't know but in an era where bodybuilding was barely a thing and they didn't even have a proper working out method or any idea of eating right he had to be on something, whether drugs or steroids or both.
Um...I don't have a bubble to burst. I've been around too long and seen enough 'roided out pigs to know what they look like. On top of all that, there is no evidence except for hearsay and the random "testimony" of those that did take them and wish to divert the truth of their physiques away and on to Reeves. Example? I do recall it being reported by Sergio Oliva that he took steroids with Reeves. LOL!
As stated elsewhere, Reeves was well built at 16 and continued to improve over the years. Not instantly, but over the years. Reeves was also tall and a person that takes steroids prior to reaching puberty tends to be shorter than average because the onslaught of testosterone in a human male signals the body that maturity has been reach and the epiphyseal plates seal. Reeves was 6' 1". Just look at the average dope builder of today and most are much, much shorter. And dumber. ;D
You can choose to believe what you want but that does not make it so. ;) ;D
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probably got coked out 4 his homo activities as well lol
Feeling like a Jedi, are you? ;D IOW, the FARCE is strong in you. I seriously doubt that Reeves did any such thing as it would not have remained a secret for all these decades. Exempli gratia - Ric Drasin and his homo porn that recently surfaced. Of course he claims to have been blackmailed into "performing". Maybe he blew Chris Dickerson? If so, he was blackmaled. LOL!
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I seriously doubt that Reeves did any such thing
99.9% of hollywood actors must whore themselves to attain success.... the vast majority of bodybuilders do the same.
reeves was both, and the odds of him not suking dick at some point r super slim.
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Um...I don't have a bubble to burst. I've been around too long and seen enough 'roided out pigs to know what they look like. On top of all that, there is no evidence except for hearsay and the random "testimony" of those that did take them and wish to divert the truth of their physiques away and on to Reeves. Example? I do recall it being reported by Sergio Oliva that he took steroids with Reeves. LOL!
As stated elsewhere, Reeves was well built at 16 and continued to improve over the years. Not instantly, but over the years. Reeves was also tall and a person that takes steroids prior to reaching puberty tends to be shorter than average because the onslaught of testosterone in a human male signals the body that maturity has been reach and the epiphyseal plates seal. Reeves was 6' 1". Just look at the average dope builder of today and most are much, much shorter. And dumber. ;D
You can choose to believe what you want but that does not make it so. ;) ;D
Sure, he would be shorter if he used roids at that early of an age, but he used them later on. Arnold had a supreme build at 15 or 16, but he still gained height.
I have seen people on gear that still look natural, and it would make sense for Reeves to take gear and still look natural to you because there wasn't an abundance of steroids back in those days. The people today shadow pin to look natural as possible but still have that edge, just like Reeves has. His muscles are so big, and he is so lean even at that height. When naturals are as lean as Reeves was, they get this deflated look, but Reeves does not have that. It is absurd to think that a cultural icon, Hollywood performer, and Bodybuilder would not be on steroids, someone whose image was a selling point. I just don't buy it. Look at guys in MMA and they are all on some gear even if they look "natural", I have seen naturals and I have seen juicers and Reeves was definitely on the sauce.
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99.9% of hollywood actors must whore themselves to attain success.... the vast majority of bodybuilders do the same.
reeves was both, and the odds of him not suking dick at some point r super slim.
I have a couple of friends/acquaintances that are in the film business and yes, many people do whore themselves out. Again, there is no proof of Reeves having done so. You can believe that if you choose. I don't. Just as I see no proof of the existence of God. And yet you claim to believe the Nazarene but your faith lacks (as evidenced by your language here) the earnestness that the Christ demands. Given that concrete proof, the odds of you hearing the words, "Well done faithful servant"...are slimmer that those of Reeves ever having smoked the wang.
Welcome to the deep end of the Pool of Thought, my young friend,. ;D
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I see no proof of the existence of God.
everything about the construct in which u exist is clear evidence of god. u deny reality.
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everything about the construct in which u exist is clear evidence of god. u deny reality.
If you believed, you would do more that just talk. You would live it. You don't. The proof is scattered throughout the forum in the form of words. Your words. This is reality that is witnessed by any that come here. Don't try to dismiss reality. Doing so only makes you look foolish.
I no longer believe and so I behave far differently than I did before. This of course is the bane of those that despise the Nazarene because I am free to strike back with fire against fire and by that I mean I can speak on their level but with far more authority than they could ever muster.
It it's any comfort, Wiggs is without a doubt the biggest 'tard of "faith" on here. His is a god of skin color alone. Fuck that noise. You are better than Wiggs, I urge you to be more than that. It's up to you.
Not living a publicly expressed faith only belittles it. Either live the faith or quit professing it. You fool no one, least of all the God you profess to hold you and all of mankind accountable. Keep it up and you'll never hear those words of welcome but rather these - "Depart from me. I know you not."
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If you believed
you are focusing on me, while ignoring reality.
everything about the construct in which u exist is clear evidence of god. u deny reality.
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99.9% of hollywood actors must whore themselves to attain success.... the vast majority of bodybuilders do the same.
reeves was both, and the odds of him not suking dick at some point r super slim.
YOU ARE COMPLETE MUSLIM MORON.
Ron ban this moron.
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everything about the construct in which u exist is clear evidence of god. u deny reality.
your allah DO NOT EXIST ................
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Sure, he would be shorter if he used roids at that early of an age, but he used them later on. Arnold had a supreme build at 15 or 16, but he still gained height.
I have seen people on gear that still look natural, and it would make sense for Reeves to take gear and still look natural to you because there wasn't an abundance of steroids back in those days. The people today shadow pin to look natural as possible but still have that edge, just like Reeves has. His muscles are so big, and he is so lean even at that height. When naturals are as lean as Reeves was, they get this deflated look, but Reeves does not have that. It is absurd to think that a cultural icon, Hollywood performer, and Bodybuilder would not be on steroids, someone whose image was a selling point. I just don't buy it. Look at guys in MMA and they are all on some gear even if they look "natural", I have seen naturals and I have seen juicers and Reeves was definitely on the sauce.
Not sure where people get the notion Reeves was on steroids . He pretty much ended his bodybuilding career in the early 50's. He became Mr. Universe in 1950 and quickly went into movies. The only steroid available, if he indeed he could get it, was testosterone propionate and administered by injection. Unless Reeves was on the Soviet weight lifting team, which started secretly using it in the mid 40's, how would he know about it? The epicenter of US weight lifting was in York, PA at the time and even they didn't get turned on to testosterone until Dr. John Ziegler started giving it to them in the mid 50's.
The first commercially available synthetic steroids were Norethandrolone, marketed in 1956 by Searle as Nilevar and Methandrostenolone, marketed as Dianabol, by Ciba. So about 5+ years after Reeve's hangs it up as a competitive bodybuilder, he starts juicing to look even smaller than he did when he competed?
Face it- the guy was a genetic marvel as far as shape goes but size wise he wasn't anywhere near as big as later guys who used. He had a chest of just under 50", measured at his biggest in 1950 at a contest. We all know the average GetBigger has a chest 5" larger than that...
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YOU ARE COMPLETE MUSLIM MORON.
calling me a muslim does not hurt my feelings, tard... being honest about reeves, on the other hand... seems to very much hurt yours lol
proving.. that truth hurts
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Not sure where people get the notion Reeves was on steroids. He pretty much ended his bodybuilding career in the early 50's.
cuz of photo evidence. why did he balloon up so much later on? why wasnt he able to achieve that size during his competitive days?
(https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/3f3fb49a15d04e1ebc836a66ba9f340c/5BA71A37/t51.2885-15/e35/26871722_1891345341176632_4255879691992301568_n.jpg)
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Not sure where people get the notion Reeves was on steroids . He pretty much ended his bodybuilding career in the early 50's. He became Mr. Universe in 1950 and quickly went into movies. The only steroid available, if he indeed he could get it, was testosterone propionate and administered by injection. Unless Reeves was on the Soviet weight lifting team, which started secretly using it in the mid 40's, how would he know about it? The epicenter of US weight lifting was in York, PA at the time and even they didn't get turned on to testosterone until Dr. John Ziegler started giving it to them in the mid 50's.
The first commercially available synthetic steroids were Norethandrolone, marketed in 1956 by Searle as Nilevar and Methandrostenolone, marketed as Dianabol, by Ciba. So about 5+ years after Reeve's hangs it up as a competitive bodybuilder, he starts juicing to look even smaller than he did when he competed?
Face it- the guy was a genetic marvel as far as shape goes but size wise he wasn't anywhere near as big as later guys who used. He had a chest of just under 50", measured at his biggest in 1950 at a contest. We all know the average GetBigger has a chest 5" larger than that...
http://nattyornot.com/steve-reeves-really-natural-bodybuilder/
quote from someone on bbing website: "Sorry, it wasn't Reg Park. It was Larry Scott who talked about Steve Reeves introducing him to D-bol. So we have Kurt Marnul and Larry Scott who were both introduced to D-bol by 'natural' Steve Reeves.
EDIT: Sergio has also gone on record saying Reeves used steroids. I don't think Reeves introduced them to him though. "
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=397811.0
According to Bob Kennedy who was very close to Steve , Reeves did use as with the majority of the old timers but who cares if they did?
They took nowhere the amount of stuff the guys take today.
Testosterone has been around alot longer than you think ,Hitler used it on his troops who were stationed on The Russian front during WW2.
Dinabol came on the scene in the mid 50s but Dinabol was born from other compounds remember.
For you "Natural" guys out there jumping up and down , try training as Steeve did 3 times a week full body 2-3 exercises per bodypart at high intensity coupled with bike riding up hills for calf/leg work ,follow steves diet then report back here with your progress and tell me he didnt use some sort of chemical support.
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cuz of photo evidence. why did he balloon up so much later on? why wasnt he able to achieve that size during his competitive days?
Which year is that photo? That will give a better idea whether he could have been using there or not.
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Which year is that photo? That will give a better idea whether he could have been using there or not.
1957
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1957
That would be too early for dianabol?
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calling me a muslim does not hurt my feelings, tard... being honest about reeves, on the other hand... seems to very much hurt yours lol
proving.. that truth hurts
how is pedo allah ..............
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That would be too early for dianabol?
I believe he was 31 years old at that time. Looks like a lifetime of physical culture to me. So many are jealous and want it to be drugs. Pffft! Most men are far bigger at 31 than they were at 21. In Reeves case it wasn't bigger by being fatter.
There has only been one Steve Reeves. Unlike the liars of today (and pretty much since the mid 60s on), it really was genetics and hard work with Reeves.
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how is pedo allah ..............
u tell me phaggot... since allah is for satanic beanpole arabs, like u
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I believe he was 31 years old at that time. Looks like a lifetime of physical culture to me. So many are jealous and want it to be drugs. Pffft! Most men are far bigger at 31 than they were at 21. In Reeves case it wasn't bigger by being fatter.
There has only been one Steve Reeves. Unlike the liars of today (and pretty much since the mid 60s on), it really was genetics and hard work with Reeves.
I wonder how many of today’s bbers are truly elite genetics? By that I mean zero drugs just lifting and eating and see what they can achieve as a true natural. Many bs claims about how the Olympia stage these guys without drugs are still better than 99 percent of the population is horseshit
Training natural vs enhanced are completely different and from my experience around bbers for a few decades some make gains quickly as naturals and but slow gains while drugs and vice versa, response is the key and tolerance, some can do it and some are so so
Plus all these top bbers are 5’5 to 5’9 max, naturally they are very small aligned with their natural height and weight
It really is all drugs and most downplay that
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https://juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/dianabolr-history-use-and-dosages
Probably one of the best articles I’ve read on the introduction of synthetic steroids to the bodybuilding and weightlifting world. Believe what you want- those on here who can’t get muscular lifting naturally will always claim anyone who can must be on drugs, lol.
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Testosterone was isolated in 1935 and testosterone propionate was being tested in human trials in 1937. Methyl test was also available since then and there were ads in the back of magazines in the 1940s and 50s selling methyl test pills.
This book was written in 1945:
https://www.amazon.com/male-hormone-Paul-Kruif/dp/B0007DOTCK
"In this thrilling scientific detective story Paul de Kruif tells of the male hormone's rise from its original sexual dis-reputability to its present promise of lifting the total vitality of mankind. The male hormone discloses magic far beyond the merely sexual. It boosts muscle power. It banishes mental fatigue. It eases heart pain. It even restores the sanity of men in midlife who suffer from male hormone hunger. Just as chemicals renew worn-out soil, so the male hormone seems to renew the tissues of aging men. The book is elaborately documented with numerous case histories, dramatic, touching and humorous. These hormone hunters are shown by Paul de Kruif as a new breed of men against death, fighting not physical demise but the far sadder living death of premature old age."
Here's the table of contents of this book that was written in 1945:
(https://image.ibb.co/kbZhyK/test.jpg)
You don't think bodybuilders back then would not have known and experimented wiith testosterone?
Yeah , no.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, injectable testosterone was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes, before that time. De Kruif himself made no clear connection between testosterone use and possible athletic applications, though he did briefly raise the question if it could surpass the effects of large vitamin doses in baseball players - aside from this single sentence, his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to restore the vitality and health of hypogonadal and aging men.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. There were, in fact, two companies in California advertising "genuine testosterone" tablets through mail order in the late 1940s, but were ordered to stop by the FDA in early-to-mid 1951 when regulations to control the distribution of controlled substances were tightened. It was well known by researchers at that time, however, that the liver effectively clears almost all orally ingested testosterone within seconds, even very large doses (clearance rate of 24.5mg/min/kg), so these tablets would have produced no effects even if they did contain crystalline testosterone. The low bioavailability of oral testosterone is precisely why injections were used in early research and why synthetic steroids were eventually developed.
It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to bioavailable testosterone before 1954-55 and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before then - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was effectively using testosterone for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential athletic effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively rarely used prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. Nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, injectable testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was available for research purposes only, with the FDA tightening regulations and enforcement in the early 1950s. Ads for "genuine testosterone tablets" were placed in national newspapers by two California companies from 1946 to 1951, but the actual ingredients of these tablets were uncontrolled, cannot be verified, and due to the body's clearance rate oral testosterone would be inconsequential anyway. For a bodybuilder to be effectively using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential athletic applications of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity for a public or prescription market. "Snake oil" ads for testosterone tablets, even if they contained what was advertised (which in itself was vague), would not have significantly impacted blood testosterone levels due to the liver's massive testosterone clearance rate and cannot be considered a reliable source.
For these reasons it can be stated with near certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using bioavailable testosterone or synthetic steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he weighed 226 lbs when he won the Mr. Britain title in 1949, 214 lbs when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, 215 lbs when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 lbs when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
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Testosterone was isolated in 1935 and testosterone propionate was being tested in human trials in 1937. Methyl test was also available since then and there were ads in the back of magazines in the 1940s and 50s selling methyl test pills.
This book was written in 1945:
https://www.amazon.com/male-hormone-Paul-Kruif/dp/B0007DOTCK
"In this thrilling scientific detective story Paul de Kruif tells of the male hormone's rise from its original sexual dis-reputability to its present promise of lifting the total vitality of mankind. The male hormone discloses magic far beyond the merely sexual. It boosts muscle power. It banishes mental fatigue. It eases heart pain. It even restores the sanity of men in midlife who suffer from male hormone hunger. Just as chemicals renew worn-out soil, so the male hormone seems to renew the tissues of aging men. The book is elaborately documented with numerous case histories, dramatic, touching and humorous. These hormone hunters are shown by Paul de Kruif as a new breed of men against death, fighting not physical demise but the far sadder living death of premature old age."
Here's the table of contents of this book that was written in 1945:
(https://image.ibb.co/kbZhyK/test.jpg)
You don't think bodybuilders back then would not have known and experimented wiith testosterone?
No one cares about any evidence or lack of, if they want to believe bodybuilders/hollywood actors don't use drugs or steroids then let them. It's not like the elite whose sole purpose of being famous is aesthetics can get drugs or steroids, even back then! No, isn't possible!
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No one cares about any evidence or lack of, if they want to believe bodybuilders/hollywood actors don't use drugs or steroids then let them. It's not like the elite whose sole purpose of being famous is aesthetics can get drugs or steroids, even back then! No, isn't possible!
None of that is evidence. There is a well established time-line of people using PEDs Reeves predates this.
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One of the big secrets in Hollywood is the number of actors who use steroids and GH.
Pitt used them for Troy.
Bana used them for Troy.
Jake Gyllenhaal used them for Prince of Persia.
Ryan Reynolds used them for X-Men: Origins - Wolverine.
He seems to be a heavy user.
Look at how badly his face has aged.
There are tons of other examples.
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One of the big secrets in Hollywood is the number of actors who use steroids and GH.
Pitt used them for Troy.
Bana used them for Troy.
Jake Gyllenhaal used them for Prince of Persia.
Ryan Reynolds used them for X-Men: Origins - Wolverine.
He seems to be a heavy user.
Look at how badly his face has aged.
There are tons of other examples.
Although all of that is believable, unless there is hard proof it’s all hearsay. And one of the reason people age fast is because of alcohol and smoking. Pitt for example was ( not sure if still
is) a chain smoker.
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I never heard Pitt smoked cigarettes. ???
Ex-wives and ex-girlfriends say he smoked a ton of pot.
When I was in grad school, I worked in the gossip business.
The studios hire a personal trainer to get the actors into the shape they wanted them to be in for the role. The connected personal trainer gets the stuff and the studio foots the bill.
It was like when Al Davis would buy al the steroids for his players.
He would just lay it all out on a big table in the locker room and told the players to take what they wanted.
When asked, he said he'd rather buy quality stuff for his players rather than having them get crap off the street.
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:D
Reeves was using steroids
he's got the typical steroid look to his physique
no way was he lifetime natural
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I never heard Pitt smoked cigarettes???
My late father lived in Florida during the time they were filming one of the Oceans films ( Oceans 11?) So he answered a casting call for extras in a crowd scene at a horse racing track. He said over a 2 day period he saw Pitt smoking like a chimney during every break in filming. He said he never saw him without a cigarette in his mouth except when they were shooting!
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My late father lived in Florida during the time they were filming one of the Oceans films ( Oceans 11?) So he answered a casting call for extras in a crowd scene at a horse racing track. He said over a 2 day period he saw Pitt smoking like a chimney during every break in filming. He said he never saw him without a cigarette in his mouth except when they were shooting!
keeps you thin for sure
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My late father lived in Florida during the time they were filming one of the Oceans films ( Oceans 11?) So he answered a casting call for extras in a crowd scene at a horse racing track. He said over a 2 day period he saw Pitt smoking like a chimney during every break in filming. He said he never saw him without a cigarette in his mouth except when they were shooting!
[/quote
keeps you thin for sure
It's true, when most people quit cigs they get fat.
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in certain cases - a casual cigarette isnt so bad for some - a few smokes can be good for some
i can personally attest to knowing top IFBB/NPC bad ass figure chics who smoke - keeps them thin.
they do it
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None of that is evidence. There is a well established time-line of people using PEDs Reeves predates this.
Even with evidence provided with the time table people are still believing what they want haha. Bunch of idiots
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One of the big secrets in Hollywood is the number of actors who use steroids and GH.
Pitt used them for Troy.
Bana used them for Troy.
Jake Gyllenhaal used them for Prince of Persia.
Ryan Reynolds used them for X-Men: Origins - Wolverine.
He seems to be a heavy user.
Look at how badly his face has aged.
There are tons of other examples.
Jonah hill used them for Superbad
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My late father lived in Florida during the time they were filming one of the Oceans films ( Oceans 11?) So he answered a casting call for extras in a crowd scene at a horse racing track. He said over a 2 day period he saw Pitt smoking like a chimney during every break in filming. He said he never saw him without a cigarette in his mouth except when they were shooting!
Brad Pitt looked great in that superhero-movie
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L-2oY4FxC_A/WwQNFbGs9UI/AAAAAAAB2kQ/mpsxKT_MiMIAqtzIxJtICuVAbNvJnrwZQCLcBGAs/s1600/32053497_2088170284791762_6078979045834358784_n.jpg)
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I never heard Pitt smoked cigarettes. ???
Ex-wives and ex-girlfriends say he smoked a ton of pot.
When I was in grad school, I worked in the gossip business.
The studios hire a personal trainer to get the actors into the shape they wanted them to be in for the role. The connected personal trainer gets the stuff and the studio foots the bill.
It was like when Al Davis would buy al the steroids for his players.
He would just lay it all out on a big table in the locker room and told the players to take what they wanted.
When asked, he said he'd rather buy quality stuff for his players rather than having them get crap off the street.
Nothing wrong with pot ;D
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My late father lived in Florida during the time they were filming one of the Oceans films ( Oceans 11?) So he answered a casting call for extras in a crowd scene at a horse racing track. He said over a 2 day period he saw Pitt smoking like a chimney during every break in filming. He said he never saw him without a cigarette in his mouth except when they were shooting!
Crazy.
A good looking guy risking his health and accelerating his aging process.
He's even dumber than I thought.
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My late father lived in Florida during the time they were filming one of the Oceans films ( Oceans 11?) So he answered a casting call for extras in a crowd scene at a horse racing track. He said over a 2 day period he saw Pitt smoking like a chimney during every break in filming. He said he never saw him without a cigarette in his mouth except when they were shooting!
I’ve also heard this. Imagine if he never smoked? We’d still probably have Legends of the Fall Brad Pitt till this day (no homo)
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Being married to crazy Angie would drive anyone to smoke and drink.
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Nothing wrong with pot ;D
Beside killing and torturing 3 million people you mean?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/PolPot.jpg)
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Jerry Brainum thinks we are "the scumbags of the world" and "absolute idiots" for even discussing if pre 60's bb'ers used testosteron and dianabol ;D
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Jerry Brainum thinks we are "the scumbags of the world" and "absolute idiots" for even discussing if pre 60's bb'ers used testosteron and dianabol ;D
;D
He's absolutely right
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Reeves and Park were men of honor. Jealousy runs deep in the veins of manlets whose blood is like weak like pink ice water.
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;D
He's absolutely right
x2
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Reeves and Park were men of honor. Jealousy runs deep in the veins of manlets whose blood is like weak like pink ice water.
^This
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All these guys from the 50s throughout the Golden Era... all seemed to have amazing pec development no matter their level at the time when compared to today's pros compared to their size)
Wonder what they did differently back then?
Simple: Bench Press