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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Italian Lifter on February 11, 2019, 02:42:40 PM
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I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.
Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?
In before " go play with sand"😃
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Another “lame question” thread
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The formula for how many reps of breathing squats to boost test is:
Nreps = 5.32*ln(Age/12)
where Age is your age in months. You can apply an asymmetric t-distribution to get the rep range.
Thanks and good luck.
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I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.
Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?
In before " go play with sand"😃
Up your protein and get on HRT
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I've never had bloodwork done to know if it really boosts test or not, but I've used Tribulus (I particulary like Ultimate Nutrition's) on and off for probably about 20 years. A co-worker who was black asked me what I thought were good supps to take when he first started working out. I told him vanadyl, creatine, AAKG, tribulus, and protein was the only things I thought were worth a shit (vitamins and EFA's aside)
I explained that trib supposedly raised test, and that although I wasn't sure if that was true, I felt a bit stronger and slightly more aggressive in the gym when using 1500-2250mgs, and that if nothing else him and his wife would like it.
Now remember, I've said here often that I hate today's hip-hop....it's unavoidable to hear it though. I mention that, because a few weeks later he stopped by my cube, and thanked me for telling him about it. I asked what he noticed, and he said he did feel stronger in the gym but that he mostly liked the bedroom side-effect. I said "yeah, gets ya full mast and wanting to screw the Mrs. more right?" He laughed, and replied something like "hell yeah! Skeet, skeet, skeet like crazy" The only time I'd ever heard that word was in that one hip-hop song, so I asked wtf that meant? It was then that I learned that song was about shooting a load on a bitch. I guess I got bro-splained. I also did not know what "super man that ho" was about until he explained that as well.
If you're ok with walking away from natty status, then Coach's post is the way to go.
I've used Now and Met-Rx's versions as well, but I think Ultimate's are better since their capsules vs. tabs. Supposedly, Tribestan and Tribex are the best, but way too pricey for me.
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That probably isnt the question you need to ask.
Why do you want to increase your test levels? Mood? Sex drive? Energy?
Exercise improves general feeling however it also wears you down.
Sleep quality fucks you up more than people realise and impacts hormones and how you feel.
Tell us what is bothering you and then we can pin point what might help because i can say right now, squats wont change anything in the overall picture.
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The formula for how many reps of breathing squats to boost test is:
Nreps = 5.32*ln(Age/12)
where Age is your age in months. You can apply an asymmetric t-distribution to get the rep range.
Thanks and good luck.
What is this formula?
If you're 30 its 30×5.32 for rep tangle? Lol
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At 45 you need testosterone replacement therapy? What the hell is going on with guys. You should be full of test at that age unless you have been juicing.
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I've never had bloodwork done to know if it really boosts test or not, but I've used Tribulus (I particulary like Ultimate Nutrition's) on and off for probably about 20 years. A co-worker who was black asked me what I thought were good supps to take when he first started working out. I told him vanadyl, creatine, AAKG, tribulus, and protein was the only things I thought were worth a shit (vitamins and EFA's aside)
I explained that trib supposedly raised test, and that although I wasn't sure if that was true, I felt a bit stronger and slightly more aggressive in the gym when using 1500-2250mgs, and that if nothing else him and his wife would like it.
Now remember, I've said here often that I hate today's hip-hop....it's unavoidable to hear it though. I mention that, because a few weeks later he stopped by my cube, and thanked me for telling him about it. I asked what he noticed, and he said he did feel stronger in the gym but that he mostly liked the bedroom side-effect. I said "yeah, gets ya full mast and wanting to screw the Mrs. more right?" He laughed, and replied something like "hell yeah! Skeet, skeet, skeet like crazy" The only time I'd ever heard that word was in that one hip-hop song, so I asked wtf that meant? It was then that I learned that song was about shooting a load on a bitch. I guess I got bro-splained. I also did not know what "super man that ho" was about until he explained that as well.
If you're ok with walking away from natty status, then Coach's post is the way to go.
I've used Now and Met-Rx's versions as well, but I think Ultimate's are better since their capsules vs. tabs. Supposedly, Tribestan and Tribex are the best, but way too pricey for me.
Wish I did not read that skeet shit as I hate hip hop lingo more than anything.thank you for not explaining that Superman crap.
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I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.
Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?
In before " go play with sand"😃
You should have your test levels tested. At 40 years of age, it might be higher than you think. My total test is in the 200 to 300 range when not on TRT. -Not sure what my free test is, but supposedly that's the score that really counts.
Squats are a good all round exercise for good health. Use good form and only as much weight as you are comfortable handling. IMO, you should not rely on crutches, such as a weight belt or knee wraps. Save those for the power lifters.
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Follow Coach's advices and see your local gym pusher for 'roids.
Not only will you get big but you might have a genetic pre-disposed stroke as a bonus.
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What exactly is the reasoning for being over 40 and not on TRT when you clearly FEEL the need for it?
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maybe there's dangers to trt?
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I'd rather deal with those POSSIBLE dangers than feel like shit.
It's Test...maybe a liberal doc will give him 200mg/week.
People have been taking multiple grams per week and are doing okay.
Not saying it's a good idea-- taking that much but-- 150 mg/week really doesn't appear to be a problem.
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What exactly is the reasoning for being over 40 and not on TRT when you clearly FEEL the need for it?
Your own nuts will shut down permanently and since 40 year old men only extremely rarely need TRT this is not a good move.
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Follow Coach's advices and see your local gym pusher for 'roids.
Not only will you get big but you might have a genetic pre-disposed stroke as a bonus.
Horseshit. Damn, I really wish people would educate themselves more ::)
We're not talking full blown cycles, I'm talking about just HRT.
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since 40 year old men only extremely rarely need TRT this is not a good move.
Huh? extremely rarely? What??/
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4508669&page=1
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Wish I did not read that skeet shit as I hate hip hop lingo more than anything.thank you for not explaining that Superman crap.
LOL! You're welcome! It's actually the tamer of the two.
The kicker with that stuff for me is that in my early teens, my dad saw a 20/20 report about the playing rock albums backwards nonsense one evening. The next afternoon, I came home from a fun day of skateboarding to find every poster of every rock/metal band on my walls torn down....some in pieces on the floor, and others stuffed into my trash can. The only poster that remained was one of Def Leppard. When I asked my mom what the fuck the deal was, she said my dad heard they were satanic. AC/DC supposedly meant after christ/devil's child, KISS was knights in satan's service, Motley Crue cuz of the pentagram, and Judas Priest...well just the name, she said. When I asked how the Def Leppard poster survived, she told me "I told him no, because I bought that for you last Christmas". Nice to have a mom that draws a line in the sand. :( The even bigger kicker of that story is that years later we see "Gene Simmons Family Jewels" show, and learn he's never done drugs or drank alcohol, and my dad wasn't 1/8 as involved in our lives as "The Demon" is with his kids. :P
This is all way off the topic of TRT, but what is so funny about today's hip-hop and the meanings of some of these songs is that since they are on pop radio, parents are actually driving their kids to school and all singing this shit out loud with them.....quality parent/child bonding time. :o "to the windows, to wall.....make all these females crawl"....crawl away from a jizzfest that is. Comical
As PetShopBoys would say....."Wooooooossssshhhhhhh"
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Huh? extremely rarely? What??/
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4508669&page=1
This is the most recent thing that popped up when searching for "how much have testosterone prescriptions increased". The article is from 2013 with 2011 statistics. Imagine what the percentages are today. Keep in mind these numbers are talking about g.p.'s and endos, and don't include all the HRT clinics of today, nor do they count those who take treatment into their own hands via the black market. (something I don't understand the risk of doing when so easy to get now)
https://www.livescience.com/37101-testosterone-therapy-prescription-increase.html
"Over the last decade, prescriptions for testosterone therapy among men ages 40 and older increased more than threefold, from0.81 percent in 2001, to nearly 3 percent in 2011, the study found."
I can't see as I type this reply, but I think IronNat said it was dangerous to shut yourself down. I disagree wholeheartedly. Many studies show the real danger is having minimal natural test production as naturally happens with age, which is compounded by the fact that estrogen levels are proportionately elevated or just flat out high. Estrogen levels either too high or too low have been linked to early death (studied in patients with heart disease), and also thought to be the real trigger for the cancer gene being activated in the prostate...not elevated testosterone.
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Horseshit. Damn, I really wish people would educate themselves more ::)
We're not talking full blown cycles, I'm talking about just HRT.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/fd7be8b1a74846c6ba6757b55bf313f5/tumblr_pmsh75isQq1xiijevo2_540.png)
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AC/DC supposedly meant after christ/devil's child
ac/dc stands for 'anti christ / devils children'
the entire 'music industry' is satanic.
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What exactly is the reasoning for being over 40 and not on TRT when you clearly FEEL the need for it?
Feelings lie.
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I'd rather deal with those POSSIBLE dangers than feel like shit.
It's Test...maybe a liberal doc will give him 200mg/week.
People have been taking multiple grams per week and are doing okay.
Not saying it's a good idea-- taking that much but-- 150 mg/week really doesn't appear to be a problem.
My urologist reduced me to 1/2 ml. I balked at this, but I am doing fine. 1 - 1 1/2 mil was better though. Damn PSA.
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ac/dc stands for 'anti christ / devils children'
the entire 'music industry' is satanic.
I've heard both, but it stands for neither. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC/DC
"The band's logo was designed in 1977 by Gerard Huerta. It first appeared on the international version of Let There Be Rock.
Malcolm and Angus Young developed the idea for the band's name after their sister, Margaret Young, saw the initials "AC/DC" on a sewing machine. "AC/DC" is an abbreviation meaning "alternating current/direct current" electricity. The brothers felt that this name symbolised the band's raw energy, power-driven performances of their music"
Hence "High Voltage" being their first release
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I've heard both, but it stands for neither.
sure... never mind the satanic imagery, symbolism and words, lol ::)
(https://assets.fontsinuse.com/static/use-media-items/60/59841/full-1020x1024/5a10a419/3708271626_60678be461_b.jpeg?resolution=0)
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My urologist reduced me to 1/2 ml. I balked at this, but I am doing fine. 1 - 1 1/2 mil was better though. Damn PSA.
Geez, that's it? I'm on 1.5 mls (300mgs) of Test E weekly. This is new, and he's conservative so I don't know how long I'll get to stay there. When I convinced him a couple months ago, he said "1200 is as high as I'm comfortable with, or you need to find a new dr." Hopefully, I'm right there bcuz all my other health issues aside...I feel better than any time in the 15 years or so that I've been on and off HRT. I'm finally committed to doing it for life even though it is a pain in the ass to do weekly.
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Geez, that's it? I'm on 1.5 mls (300mgs) of Test E weekly. This is new, and he's conservative so I don't know how long I'll get to stay there. When I convinced him a couple months ago, he said "1200 is as high as I'm comfortable with, or you need to find a new dr." Hopefully, I'm right there bcuz all my other health issues aside...I feel better than any time in the 15 years or so that I've been on and off HRT. I'm finally committed to doing it for life even though it is a pain in the ass to do weekly.
300mgs of Test E seems a little excessive for HRT. I’m not against it but just seems out of the ordinary for a Dr. to prescribe that much. Especially E.
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That probably isnt the question you need to ask.
Why do you want to increase your test levels? Mood? Sex drive? Energy?
Exercise improves general feeling however it also wears you down.
Sleep quality fucks you up more than people realise and impacts hormones and how you feel.
Tell us what is bothering you and then we can pin point what might help because i can say right now, squats wont change anything in the overall picture.
First of all thanks to the guys who gave me an answer and their opinion. Even the funny ones were fine.
To answer your question MAYDAY: I wish I can increase my test levels because obviously-even being a lifetime natty-when I was 20-25 yo the results of training were much much better.
Now after more than a year off training due to a frozen shoulder, response to the work in the gym seems to be very very slow and hopeless.
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At 45 you need testosterone replacement therapy? What the hell is going on with guys. You should be full of test at that age unless you have been juicing.
Well OLDTIMER, I'm no scientist but even if my health is excellent and I feel great, honestly I'm pretty sure my test levels aren't the ones of 20 years ago.
It sucks since months of training produce very little results.
I know that being natty doesn't help but years ago the situation was much better.
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So in the end you believe 12/15 sets of squat is not useful at all in giving a little boost to my test? [Strict reps, no cheating, no ego lifting, but very intense]
Am I wrong in remembering this type of suggestion from old mags I used to read?
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First of all thanks to the guys who gave me an answer and their opinion. Even the funny ones were fine.
I wish I can increase my test levels because obviously-even being a lifetime natty-when I was 20-25 yo the results of training were much much better.
Now after more than a year off training due to a frozen shoulder, response to the work in the gym seems to be very very slow and hopeless.
I'm in the same boat as you, friend. I think most helpful is learning to accept that shit just declines. I'm working as hard as I ever did but I'm still losing mass - feels like I'm rowing a boat upstream and the current is just getting stronger each year. 20 rep squats might be worth trying but I find it increasingly easy to get injured these days. Squats are off the menu for me now since I just can't seem to manage them anymore without hurting my back.
I've tried tribulus in reasonably high doses. Psychologically I felt it did me some good, but in the gym the results were so small it wasn't worth it. Creatine had twice the effect.
I've tried to speak to doctors here in Germany about TRT but they're dead against it. They won't even refer me to colleagues who don't share their biases - they just start quoting stats at me for increased risks of heart disease/attack, prostatic enlargement etc.....(German doctors are much more arrogant than medicos I've known elsewhere).
I used to be of the mindset that if I was getting results from certain exercises there was no need to change. I had the same routine for decades pretty much. These days I find it helps to change things up a lot, and I'll do a lot more giant sets, and generally higher reps with lower weight.
Age gets us all mate. If you want to avoid the chemicals I think you'll just have to accept that doing anything in the gym is good enough but you're not going to be what you were when you were younger....
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Geez, that's it? I'm on 1.5 mls (300mgs) of Test E weekly. This is new, and he's conservative so I don't know how long I'll get to stay there. When I convinced him a couple months ago, he said "1200 is as high as I'm comfortable with, or you need to find a new dr." Hopefully, I'm right there bcuz all my other health issues aside...I feel better than any time in the 15 years or so that I've been on and off HRT. I'm finally committed to doing it for life even though it is a pain in the ass to do weekly.
Notice any sides from that dose?
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75 mg. to 100 mg. is perfect for me, went on 2 years ago when I hit age 50. Life-changing for those who need it.
I dont think there's any good natty ways to boost test. You will get small bursts with certain training, or libido boost w/ certain herbs, but nothing sustainable and evenly leveled off.
Except for TRT.
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For those taking Tribullus , isn't that toxic to kidneys ?
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Well OLDTIMER, I'm no scientist but even if my health is excellent and I feel great, honestly I'm pretty sure my test levels aren't the ones of 20 years ago.
It sucks since months of training produce very little results.
I know that being natty doesn't help but years ago the situation was much better.
what do u wish to gain ? More wang, hornier ,more reps, leaner?
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what do u wish to gain ? More wang, hornier ,more reps, leaner?
Hi JF, I would happily settle for a little more mass and not so much bf
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Hi JF, I would happily settle for a little more mass and not so much bf
Eat less.
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I do see your point, and I'm already doing it since last October, but at this age progress is slow, very slow.
Also recovery after heavy sessions takes literally ages
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It sucks. I know.
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I do see your point, and I'm already doing it since last October, but at this age progress is slow, very slow.
Also recovery after heavy sessions takes literally ages
I'm still natty here, will be 53 in May. 35 years of training. I was going strong up until about age 47, that's when things started to change. I've recently been relegated to working out to every 3nd day. My joints ache a lot more and it takes longer to recover from hard workouts. Heavy benching and squatting is a thing of the past. It sucks, but I'm determined to avoid the TRT route as long as possible.
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Been on one gram of TE since the end of August. Had labs done in November and everything was in range. Nothing wrong with hrt, 150mg a week. Any old guy who isn’t using hrt is dumb!
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Goes right back to my point from yesterday
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"Eat more eggs." -- Vince Gironda
(http://muscleandbrawn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/00315.jpg)
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Been on one gram of TE since the end of August. Had labs done in November and everything was in range. Nothing wrong with hrt, 150mg a week. Any old guy who isn’t using hrt is dumb!
Any side effects? Both physically and psychological?
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Any side effects? Both physically and psychological?
Less patient, wanna fuck anything with ass and titties. Otherwise I feel good.
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youth retainment protocol:
50-150mg dhea daily
+
5 - 10mg anavar 5 days a week (weekends off) as desired
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Geez, that's it? I'm on 1.5 mls (300mgs) of Test E weekly. This is new, and he's conservative so I don't know how long I'll get to stay there. When I convinced him a couple months ago, he said "1200 is as high as I'm comfortable with, or you need to find a new dr." Hopefully, I'm right there bcuz all my other health issues aside...I feel better than any time in the 15 years or so that I've been on and off HRT. I'm finally committed to doing it for life even though it is a pain in the ass to do weekly.
I had prostate cancer. My doctor is just being cautious. Although my PSA is still considered undetectable, it did go up a little which is when he lowered my dosage. He also didn't like that my total testosterone was over 1,000. I feel best when I'm injecting 1 mil a week. Since he lowered the dose, my energy levels have dropped. At my next appointment, I'm going to lobby for an increased dose.
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what do u wish to gain ? More wang, hornier ,more reps, leaner?
All of the above.
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youth retainment protocol:
50-150mg dhea daily
+
5 - 10mg anavar 5 days a week (weekends off) as desired
DHEA has been part of my daily routine for years.
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300mgs of Test E seems a little excessive for HRT. I’m not against it but just seems out of the ordinary for a Dr. to prescribe that much. Especially E.
I understand Coach. I've been on and off legit HRT from a G.P. or Int. Med Dr. for about 15 years now, so a lot has gone into this.
My initial Dr. and I played around with things a lot. I've always preferred Enanthate to Cyp, as Cyp was my first cycle and I held water so much that when my bosses at the gym I worked at noticed that my cheeks explained my sudden increase in strength, picked a day when I was coming into work and greeted me by singing "Puff the Magic Dragon" ;D Also, cyp has benz in it, and Enanthate doesn't. 0 injection sting/pain with E. 8)
I am very honest with my Drs., and told the first Dr. that I noticed when I used E for bbing purposes if I missed/didn't want a shot one week around day 10 I'd start crashing. I didn't want to come in weekly for shots (he wouldn't allow it otherwise), and I didn't want to do e.o.w. to avoid the crash. We settled on 1.75 mls every 10 days, and I'd test around 900ngs.
Fast forward to new Dr. We started doing 200mgs every week, and then my co-pay doubled so I gave 400mgs e.o.w. a try. Got bloodwork done in December, and was around 650 vs. 970ish IIRC doing weekly. This year my co-pay went down 75%. In reviewing my labs in Dec. I told my Dr. 650 was not acceptable, and that I could handle paying for weekly shots again. I brought a bunch of studies and info I found online, and explained to him that while 970 total T or so might seem great for most people, someone like me that was used to doing 500-750mgs a week was not going to get the same good feelings/benefits. I explained it as "used to feel like a race car, now I feel like a Pinto". I showed him that 1500ngs is considered truly supra, and he then for some reason wrote down "1200-1500" on paper in front of me. That's when he circled 1200 and told me that was as high as he was comfortable with, and my option if I wanted to go above that (find another Dr. which I don't wanna do). We'll see in a few weeks when I get blood drawn where I'm at with the 1.5 mls?
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Notice any sides from that dose?
Not a one! In fact, I'm crossing my fingers that my blood test is around 1100 or less so I can point out that the line in the sand the Dr. drew was 1200ngs and I'd like to be at least that.
I don't know if you've ever used or not Griffith. If you haven't, the myriad of side effects are nothing but horse-shit fear invoking nonsense when used rationally. Other than the obvious testes ascension, the only sides I've ever had were acne (not much, and only in my 20's), puffy cheeks (I have a rounder face anyway), and some hair loss (wrote about this in the hair loss thread....happened when adding Syntex's A-50 to my Testoviron base early 20's, was recommended Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and it stopped immediately....only male on both side of family that has a full head of hair past 25 let alone into 40's...knock on wood)
I have gone as high as around 1200-1300mgs of total AAS weekly. I would never go that high again. For me, everything beyond 900-1000mgs total AAS was a waste of money. I've gotten stronger on cycles with much less, although I did get stronger quicker on that cycle (obviously I tapered up faster too on that one). However, it came at the expense of sore shoulders and knees, breaking out more (but still not badly), having to shave more, and generally feeling shittier. I haven't done a cycle above what prescribed for prolly 10+ years. Doubt I ever will again.
If you have used, you know that sides and gains are generally person specific. For some to a great extent, and for others not so much. That's what drives me insane when it comes to the "all drugs" shit that gets posted here.
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So in the end you believe 12/15 sets of squat is not useful at all in giving a little boost to my test? [Strict reps, no cheating, no ego lifting, but very intense]
Am I wrong in remembering this type of suggestion from old mags I used to read?
I guess most of us never really addressed the squat part of your question. Sorry for doing that on my part. If Coach reads this and disagrees with me, then I will defer to his post as he knows more than me. My opinion is:
I think the "big 3" likely do have some impact on test levels when done heavy, and when compared to someone just training normally or with machines. I also think that that really applies to when a person is 15-25...maybe early 30's depending on if the person started training heavy in mid 20's
Like others have essentially said when you blend all these answers together, you really have 2 choices here:
1) accept that things change with age, and just be happy with going to the gym and feeling/looking better than someone your age that doesn't
2) you can lose your aversion to no longer being a "natty", get your blood work done, and if you don't like the results....you find a Dr. willing to work with you knowledgeably, effectively, and safely. IMO, this does not include any of these "Male Therapy" type clinics that prescribe based on "membership levels", nor does it include tele-med from a Dr. you'll never shake the hand of in FL or Cali (unless you know wtf you're doing)
Hope some of all that helps you! 8)
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I've tried tribulus in reasonably high doses. Psychologically I felt it did me some good, but in the gym the results were so small it wasn't worth it. Creatine had twice the effect.
$-wise? What brand did you use? Capsules or tabs? IMO capsules are much more noticeable....especially in regards to libido, and well....skeet amount :D If you shop around on Amazon you can find some great deals. Met-Rx's and Now Sports' tabs were both good, and I bought like 6 bottles at different times when they were "lightning deals" on Amazon. For the $5 dollars extra per bottle, I will go back to Ultimate Nutrition's capsules once what I have is gone.
For those taking Tribullus , isn't that toxic to kidneys ?
Never had elevated levels on lab results even while on TRT at the same time
I'm still natty here, will be 53 in May. 35 years of training. I was going strong up until about age 47, that's when things started to change. I've recently been relegated to working out to every 3nd day. My joints ache a lot more and it takes longer to recover from hard workouts. Heavy benching and squatting is a thing of the past. It sucks, but I'm determined to avoid the TRT route as long as possible.
Not being a smart-ass, but why? Just on principle? Cost? Pain in the ass? Afraid of sides? <---(see other post if so)
I had prostate cancer. My doctor is just being cautious. Although my PSA is still considered undetectable, it did go up a little which is when he lowered my dosage. He also didn't like that my total testosterone was over 1,000. I feel best when I'm injecting 1 mil a week. Since he lowered the dose, my energy levels have dropped. At my next appointment, I'm going to lobby for an increased dose.
Prime get your %free testosterone, and your estrogen levels tested. If your total test is over 1000, and your %free test is 2.5-3 I'd agree with your dr. keeping you there based on your age IMO. The "ideal" range for estrogen in males that labs use is crazy in regards to how high is acceptable. If results are over 35 you need anastrozole. See my other post about elevated estrogen levels regarding both CV issues and prostate cancer. Optimal is 20-30...my opinion based on what I've read.
To all, my posts are just my opinion based on cycles from my younger days, legit trt, and lots of reading going back to when the "Anabolic Reference Guide" was first published. I am not a dr. or guru of any sorts. Do not take anything as medical advice. Get a good Doc and educate yourself. 8)
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$-wise? What brand did you use? Capsules or tabs? IMO capsules are much more noticeable....especially in regards to libido, and well....skeet amount :D If you shop around on Amazon you can find some great deals. Met-Rx's and Now Sports' tabs were both good, and I bought like 6 bottles at different times when they were "lightning deals" on Amazon. For the $5 dollars extra per bottle, I will go back to Ultimate Nutrition's capsules once what I have is gone.
Probably nothing you'll find in the States. I used to be naturopath when I lived in Australia, so herbal medicines were my daily life. I used the best herbal medicine company we had, called Mediherb. I think they may have some lines in the US under the Standard Process banner, but I couldn't tell you if Tribulus was one of them. I went with this company because I knew how they operated. They'd actually stopped production on their Tribulus tabs because they found some of the compounds (the steroidal saponins) were testing lower than average due to growing conditions one season. They did this often - if a product wasn't up to scratch they wouldn't sell it. I figured they were the most reputable company I'd find.
Like I said, I felt hornier, and my mind was sharp, but in the gym, just a very small effect and nothing I'd bother with again.
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I guess most of us never really addressed the squat part of your question. Sorry for doing that on my part. If Coach reads this and disagrees with me, then I will defer to his post as he knows more than me. My opinion is:
I think the "big 3" likely do have some impact on test levels when done heavy, and when compared to someone just training normally or with machines. I also think that that really applies to when a person is 15-25...maybe early 30's depending on if the person started training heavy in mid 20's
Like others have essentially said when you blend all these answers together, you really have 2 choices here:
1) accept that things change with age, and just be happy with going to the gym and feeling/looking better than someone your age that doesn't
2) you can lose your aversion to no longer being a "natty", get your blood work done, and if you don't like the results....you find a Dr. willing to work with you knowledgeably, effectively, and safely. IMO, this does not include any of these "Male Therapy" type clinics that prescribe based on "membership levels", nor does it include tele-med from a Dr. you'll never shake the hand of in FL or Cali (unless you know wtf you're doing)
Hope some odf all that helps you! 8)
Thanks a lot for your answer Myt.
In all honesty I have some doubts about going on HRT, but it's related mostly on the bad experience one close friend of mine had.
It's just one case so it's not a statistic based on studies : long story short he started HRT and after a couple of months he was extremely anxious, even had terrible panic attacks.
So he had to quit and take xanax and antidepressants (Zoloft if I'm not mistaken).
Although I do not know the dose he was on I'm pretty sure he was doing everything properly since a good doc was following him on this.
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Yeah - I've seen similar things in a couple of friends. I think someone mentioned already, everyone experiences and deals with the side effects differently. Probably a genetic thing. I worked a bit with a compounding pharmacist in Oz, and the change in the guys coming in for their TRT and GH was really astounding. I mean, I'd had friends on gear at the gym too, but these were guys in their 50's and 60's coming in looking younger each month and telling me it was the best money they'd ever spent.
The doctors here in Germany refuse to even discuss it....
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I use 100mgs every 5 days sometimes I stretch it out to 7-10 days, I try too use as less as possible to get the benefits while strongly considering the possible side effects, i also get a litre of blood out every three months. My doc wants me to use a higher dose as I'm low normal on bloodwork, but I find high testosterone can sometimes also be a distraction with where i am in life. I also come off twice a year just to take some weight off I find i pout on 4-6 kilos with the use and I dont want the weight it just creeps up, and I get to a point where i come off and usually between 4-8 weeks later the weight gain has gone and I can start again. Managing your weight should be as much a consideration i believe. the beauty of using so little is i dont really feel much more one when off and the same when off, when off i just do a lot more cardio than gym as well, so i dont notice the loss of muscle weight so much.
Just a personal protocol.
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Not being a smart-ass, but why? Just on principle? Cost? Pain in the ass? Afraid of sides? <---(see other post if so)
Not fond of gyno and hair loss, but most importantly... once you start TRT, you'll have to take it forever. If/when you stop, you turn into a meek little lamb.
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Good food, weight lifting, losing fat around waist, a good sleep, have sex = test is increased to his normal level.
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Good food, weight lifting, losing fat around waist, a good sleep, have sex = test is increased to his normal level.
That stuff definitely helps, but only to a certain point. Youth fades and age takes over. It only gets harder and harder.
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Not a one! In fact, I'm crossing my fingers that my blood test is around 1100 or less so I can point out that the line in the sand the Dr. drew was 1200ngs and I'd like to be at least that.
I don't know if you've ever used or not Griffith. If you haven't, the myriad of side effects are nothing but horse-shit fear invoking nonsense when used rationally. Other than the obvious testes ascension, the only sides I've ever had were acne (not much, and only in my 20's), puffy cheeks (I have a rounder face anyway), and some hair loss (wrote about this in the hair loss thread....happened when adding Syntex's A-50 to my Testoviron base early 20's, was recommended Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and it stopped immediately....only male on both side of family that has a full head of hair past 25 let alone into 40's...knock on wood)
I have gone as high as around 1200-1300mgs of total AAS weekly. I would never go that high again. For me, everything beyond 900-1000mgs total AAS was a waste of money. I've gotten stronger on cycles with much less, although I did get stronger quicker on that cycle (obviously I tapered up faster too on that one). However, it came at the expense of sore shoulders and knees, breaking out more (but still not badly), having to shave more, and generally feeling shittier. I haven't done a cycle above what prescribed for prolly 10+ years. Doubt I ever will again.
If you have used, you know that sides and gains are generally person specific. For some to a great extent, and for others not so much. That's what drives me insane when it comes to the "all drugs" shit that gets posted here.
Thanks for the informative reply!
And no, I have never used, but would definitely consider it if I feel my quality of life is decreasing as I get older.
I have read that 250 mgs of test is a bodybuilding amount though, not that I'd have a problem with that.
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I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.
Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?
In before " go play with sand"😃
You are 45 and you call that old??? What’s going to happen when you are 55??
Vaffanculo!! :D
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I've heard both, but it stands for neither. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC/DC
"The band's logo was designed in 1977 by Gerard Huerta. It first appeared on the international version of Let There Be Rock.
Malcolm and Angus Young developed the idea for the band's name after their sister, Margaret Young, saw the initials "AC/DC" on a sewing machine. "AC/DC" is an abbreviation meaning "alternating current/direct current" electricity. The brothers felt that this name symbolised the band's raw energy, power-driven performances of their music"
Hence "High Voltage" being their first release
This.
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You are 45 and you call that old??? What’s going to happen when you are 55??
Vaffanculo!! :D
When you're in the gym surrounded by guys in their 20's moving your poundages without breaking a sweat, any you're about to have an heart attack any minute or shit your pants... That's the moment when you feel old as Noah on his fucking ark.
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I’m on TRT.
100mg or Cyp a week prescribed as long as I donate blood once a month
and keep good cholesterol levels via diet.
Obviously I go 100mg every 5 days but that’s beside the point. Per Doctor’s
orders I come off 3 months out of the year. I always go Dec - Feb.
Labs right before I come off shows my T levels around 700.
I decided to use an OTC the last few months and did labs last week as I am
due to get back ON officially.
T-levels were in the mid 400’s closer to 500. Now I have to go cold turkey off
of the OTC and repeat Labs again. Doc won’t refill me if my t-levels aren’t in the
low 200’s. FML.
- Block!
-
Thanks a lot for your answer Myt.
In all honesty I have some doubts about going on HRT, but it's related mostly on the bad experience one close friend of mine had.
It's just one case so it's not a statistic based on studies : long story short he started HRT and after a couple of months he was extremely anxious, even had terrible panic attacks.
So he had to quit and take xanax and antidepressants (Zoloft if I'm not mistaken).
Although I do not know the dose he was on I'm pretty sure he was doing everything properly since a good doc was following him on this.
NP! As for the anxiety stuff....I kinda think that's comparable to the whole roid rage thing. I've only experienced what would be to referred to that 2 times....both times, even Buddha would've been ready to throw down.....one of those times I was not on anything. In my experience, if a person is an aggressive asshole, and they get on the sauce and get big.....they're going to be a much bigger asshole and more aggressive. I suffer from anxiety very badly, and the severity is actually somewhat lessened when on test E. Other than the Dr. fucking up a 5ml script one time, I have not used Cyp for probably close to 20-22 yrs. Besides the reasons I mentioned for preferring Test E over Cyp, the other big one is that I am very moody and easily agitated on Cyp.....not at all so on Test E. Good luck with whatever you decide! 8)
Not fond of gyno and hair loss, but most importantly... once you start TRT, you'll have to take it forever. If/when you stop, you turn into a meek little lamb.
Completely understand, and agree it's a bit annoying to have to do every week. I do say the hell with it every once in a while, and within 1-2 months the lamb is strong.
As for the hair loss; if you are into your 40's and still have your hair, legit TRT is not going to change that. As I said, I am the only male on both sides of my fam that has used steroids, and I am also the only one with a full head of hair. I have used Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and saw palmetto since my early 20's when I did notice some hair loss. It stopped pretty much immediately once I started Nioxin.
I had probably one of the best connections in America in my teens and early 20's, but was stupid and only did PCT 3x and IDR ever taking nolva so I do have some gyno, but I had it growing up as a chubby lad so who knows. ??? I just added anastrozole about 2 months ago as my last labs were crazy re: estradiol
Thanks for the informative reply!
And no, I have never used, but would definitely consider it if I feel my quality of life is decreasing as I get older.
I have read that 250 mgs of test is a bodybuilding amount though, not that I'd have a problem with that.
YW! Wherever you read that....well, let's just say don't bother with that source of info.
Supra-physiological (i.e. bbing amount) is a term that describes test levels that are beyond the physiological norm. Drs. specializing in TRT, and sound sources of info would likely use that term when total test blood levels are beyond 1200-1500ngs/dl Yes, using higher dosages will get you to that point, but there is technically no such thing as a "bbing amount" or "supra-physiological dose"
To illustrate what I'm saying, take me and Prime as an example. Prime said he's on .5mls per week (i'm assuming it's 200mgs/ml test C) so he's on 100 mg per week. His total test blood levels on that 100mgs/wk are over 1000 as he stated. Then you have me when I was on 1ml (200mgs Test E)/week, and I tested slightly under 1000ngs total test. So while we're on different forms of test (results would be similar if I was on cyp) he is able to take half as much as me, and ends up with a total test level result of around 100ngs/dl higher than me. Lucky him. Cheaper, and less oil going into the body.
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NP! As for the anxiety stuff....I kinda think that's comparable to the whole roid rage thing. I've only experienced what would be to referred to that 2 times....both times, even Buddha would've been ready to throw down.....one of those times I was not on anything. In my experience, if a person is an aggressive asshole, and they get on the sauce and get big.....they're going to be a much bigger asshole and more aggressive. I suffer from anxiety very badly, and the severity is actually somewhat lessened when on test E. Other than the Dr. fucking up a 5ml script one time, I have not used Cyp for probably close to 20-22 yrs. Besides the reasons I mentioned for preferring Test E over Cyp, the other big one is that I am very moody and easily agitated on Cyp.....not at all so on Test E. Good luck with whatever you decide! 8)
Completely understand, and agree it's a bit annoying to have to do every week. I do say the hell with it every once in a while, and within 1-2 months the lamb is strong.
As for the hair loss; if you are into your 40's and still have your hair, legit TRT is not going to change that. As I said, I am the only male on both sides of my fam that has used steroids, and I am also the only one with a full head of hair. I have used Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and saw palmetto since my early 20's when I did notice some hair loss. It stopped pretty much immediately once I started Nioxin.
I had probably one of the best connections in America in my teens and early 20's, but was stupid and only did PCT 3x and IDR ever taking nolva so I do have some gyno, but I had it growing up as a chubby lad so who knows. ??? I just added anastrozole about 2 months ago as my last labs were crazy re: estradiol
YW! Wherever you read that....well, let's just say don't bother with that source of info.
Supra-physiological (i.e. bbing amount) is a term that describes test levels that are beyond the physiological norm. Drs. specializing in TRT, and sound sources of info would likely use that term when total test blood levels are beyond 1200-1500ngs/dl Yes, using higher dosages will get you to that point, but there is technically no such thing as a "bbing amount" or "supra-physiological dose"
To illustrate what I'm saying, take me and Prime as an example. Prime said he's on .5mls per week (i'm assuming it's 200mgs/ml test C) so he's on 100 mg per week. His total test blood levels on that 100mgs/wk are over 1000 as he stated. Then you have me when I was on 1ml (200mgs Test E)/week, and I tested slightly under 1000ngs total test. So while we're on different forms of test (results would be similar if I was on cyp) he is able to take half as much as me, and ends up with a total test level result of around 100ngs/dl higher than me. Lucky him. Cheaper, and less oil going into the body.
That's very useful info, I did not know it worked like that!
I understand what you're saying here, goes to show how important it is to be under a doctor's supervision and monitor these levels.
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When you're in the gym surrounded by guys in their 20's moving your poundages without breaking a sweat, any you're about to have an heart attack any minute or shit your pants... That's the moment when you feel old as Noah on his fucking ark.
Get real. You are not 20 anymore.
You don't look like Brad Pitt either.
The advices to take drugs so you can lift more weight or be buff is foolish. You then have to keep taking drugs or the illusion goes away.
Here's the best advices: Train hard and watch your diet. Don't compete with 20 year olds. Accept yourself but work for improvement.
45 isn't old.
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I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.
Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?
In before " go play with sand"😃
Try to leave the gym stimulated and not decimated. Adjust diet and rest in order to be in a anabolic state 24/7. Heavy squats help on boosting test, but so does proper sleep, and you don't risk popping a vertebrae disk.
More important, convince yourself that you are not 20 years old, and act accordingly.
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Get real. You are not 20 anymore.
You don't look like Brad Pitt either.
The advices to take drugs so you can lift more weight or be buff is foolish. You then have to keep taking drugs or the illusion goes away.
Here's the best advices: Train hard and watch your diet. Don't compete with 20 year olds. Accept yourself but work for improvement.
45 isn't old.
Words of wisdom, but sometimes it's difficult to accept aging, especially if training is a big part of your life.
Been training for 30 years, and had to stop only once approx two years ago due to a "frozen shoulder" (very painful, takes ages to recover, spend roughly the equivalent of 4000 bucks).
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Get real. You are not 20 anymore.
You don't look like Brad Pitt either.
The advices to take drugs so you can lift more weight or be buff is foolish. You then have to keep taking drugs or the illusion goes away.
Here's the best advices: Train hard and watch your diet. Don't compete with 20 year olds. Accept yourself but work for improvement.
45 isn't old.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating to take test for the reasons of "lift more weight or be buff" (those are wonderful additional benefits)
I'm advocating it's use for anyone with low test levels at any age, to use prescribed testosterone under a real dr's care for better health, mood, energy, and libido.
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I’m on TRT.
100mg or Cyp a week prescribed as long as I donate blood once a month
and keep good cholesterol levels via diet.
Obviously I go 100mg every 5 days but that’s beside the point. Per Doctor’s
orders I come off 3 months out of the year. I always go Dec - Feb.
Labs right before I come off shows my T levels around 700.
I decided to use an OTC the last few months and did labs last week as I am
due to get back ON officially.
T-levels were in the mid 400’s closer to 500. Now I have to go cold turkey off
of the OTC and repeat Labs again. Doc won’t refill me if my t-levels aren’t in the
low 200’s. FML.
- Block!
Wow! :o
Block,
Since you've made the decision to use, and understand things; why haven't you found a new Dr.?
I'm also rather shocked your dr. has you come off. Most drs. would be opposed to that, and likely accuse you of using it for bbing cycles if the patient suggested that IME.
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Words of wisdom, but sometimes it's difficult to accept aging, especially if training is a big part of your life.
Been training for 30 years, and had to stop only once approx two years ago due to a "frozen shoulder" (very painful, takes ages to recover, spend roughly the equivalent of 4000 bucks).
I've actually never heard that term before this thread, and your posts. It sounds like it sucks donkey dick. Hope things are/stay better man!
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684
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I've actually never heard that term before this thread, and your posts. It sounds like it sucks donkey dick. Hope things are/stay better man!
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684
Basically I had zero range of motion and it was very painful.
2 out of 3 doctors said I need a surgery + 6 months of rehab.
Followed the advice of the older guy: shock waves (painful and expensive), physiotherapy (they just pull the fucking arm till you shit your pants) every day for roughly 7 months.
Next stage was active rehab: couple of months of elastic -gay- bands.
Then, finally dumbbells: first set of laterals I did was 8 reps with 2 lbs.
Fast forward now: I'm using 80% of weight/reps as my former self (25 lbs x 10-12 reps).
Not a stroll in the park but there are worse things in life, I was just stubborn as I always was
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Is it healthy for a 50 year old to have the test levels of a 20 year old?
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Wow! :o
Block,
Since you've made the decision to use, and understand things; why haven't you found a new Dr.?
I'm also rather shocked your dr. has you come off. Most drs. would be opposed to that, and likely accuse you of using it for bbing cycles if the patient suggested that IME.
Haha. He knows why we use it. He also feels coming off is a good idea in short spurts. Has to do with
general labs (cholesterol, hematocrit etc..)
Too bad I’m not “pre anemic”. He would have prescribed me Var or Drol.
- Block!
-
10mg-12mg daily (cypionate) via insulin syringe either IM or SubQ. No H/H elevation. No BP elevation. No estradiol elevation so no need for an AI which are bad news. 10-12mg will put most in the 600-800 range. In range test levels are far more healthy the low levels at any age. It also comes down to quality of life. Unfortunately many men that would benefit from TRT therapy are placed on anti-depressants instead by uninformed general practitioners. On the flip side most middle aged men are far to unhealthy via their diet and lifestyle in general to even begin therapy ie. lipid levels, bp, etc.
-
Tribulus
Fenugreek
D- Aspartic Acid
Longjack
ZMA
All of these work to boost test naturally without all those nasty side effects.
-
Prime get your %free testosterone, and your estrogen levels tested. If your total test is over 1000, and your %free test is 2.5-3 I'd agree with your dr. keeping you there based on your age IMO. The "ideal" range for estrogen in males that labs use is crazy in regards to how high is acceptable. If results are over 35 you need anastrozole. See my other post about elevated estrogen levels regarding both CV issues and prostate cancer. Optimal is 20-30...my opinion based on what I've read.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely talk to my doctor about this during my next appointment. On my own, I added 1 mg. anastrozole every Wednesday and 250 iu injection of HGC on Saturday and again on Sunday. I do the test cyp shot on Mondays.
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10mg-12mg daily (cypionate) via insulin syringe either IM or SubQ. No H/H elevation. No BP elevation. No estradiol elevation so no need for an AI which are bad news. 10-12mg will put most in the 600-800 range. In range test levels are far more healthy the low levels at any age. It also comes down to quality of life. Unfortunately many men that would benefit from TRT therapy are placed on anti-depressants instead by uninformed general practitioners. On the flip side most middle aged men are far to unhealthy via their diet and lifestyle in general to even begin therapy ie. lipid levels, bp, etc.
FUCK THAT NOISE!!!
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Is it healthy for a 50 year old to have the test levels of a 20 year old?
Honestly HN,
My biggest regrets when it comes to AAS is that I only had 3yrs of training under my belt, and did my first cycle at only 19. Not only did I miss out on reaching my natural potential, as I was still progressing without, (I know our views on that window differ), but I will never know what my real 20-25yr old natural test levels were as I never had them tested b4 my first cycle. That means while on TRT, the only thing I have to go off of regarding how I should feel based on being 25-30, is comparing it to the time in my life when I was sauced up the most. :-\
To directly answer your question is impossible though. I will say this however, I know a lot more guys that are in good spirits, energetic, working out regularly, getting ass, have decent to great physiques, and appear healthy; that are on TRT than I do those who aren't on it at 50. Hell, truth is most males only 35+ look, and feel like shit in this country.
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Honestly HN,
My biggest regrets when it comes to AAS is that I only had 3yrs of training under my belt, and did my first cycle at only 19. Not only did I miss out on reaching my natural potential, as I was still progressing without, (I know our views on that window differ), but I will never know what my real 20-25yr old natural test levels were as I never had them tested b4 my first cycle. That means while on TRT, the only thing I have to go off of regarding how I should feel based on being 25-30, is comparing it to the time in my life when I was sauced up the most. :-\
To directly answer your question is impossible though. I will say this however, I know a lot more guys that are in good spirits, energetic, working out regularly, getting ass, have decent to great physiques, and appear healthy; that are on TRT than I do those who aren't on it at 50. Hell, truth is most males only 35+ look, and feel like shit in this country.
Yeah, most guys 35+ look and feel like shit and most do no exercise at all. We will see in the next 10 years how everyone on TRT ends up health wise. I may go on someday but I'd like to hold out as long as I can as it's a lifetime decision.
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Being dependent of drugs is not smart.
If you have a genuine medical condition this does not apply.
Most do not and are just stroking their ego.
But I respect people's right to f*ck thenselves up.
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Being dependent of drugs is not smart.
If you have a genuine medical condition this does not apply.
Most do not and are just stroking their ego.
But I respect people's right to f*ck thenselves up.
Whether or not to consider TRT should be based on your labs. If you testosterone is well below normal, TRT can help regulate it as long as you don't have negative sides. However, even if you bring your testosterone up to what it was at your peak, don't expect it to make you feel like your eighteen again. It is not a panacea for everything you think is wrong about your health.
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The formula for how many reps of breathing squats to boost test is:
Nreps = 5.32*ln(Age/12)
where Age is your age in months. You can apply an asymmetric t-distribution to get the rep range.
Thanks and good luck.
This is incorrect. Age should be in years, hence why it is divided by 12.
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Your own nuts will shut down permanently and since 40 year old men only extremely rarely need TRT this is not a good move.
You mean-IRONAT-that if someone is following HRT for some time the natural test production will go to zero?
And if so, is it a process that can be reversed?
Any direct experiences?
Sorry if mine is a stupid question.
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You mean-IRONAT-that if someone is following HRT for some time the natural test production will go to zero?
And if so, is it a process that can be reversed?
Any direct experiences?
Sorry if mine is a stupid question.
Yep. And your Peter North days will be also over.
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Yep. And your Peter North days will be also over.
Or it would take many years to recover at least?
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Or it would take many years to recover at least?
The older you are, the longer the recovery. Also, you may never recover.
I would not take TRT unless it was absolutely necessary because you have to stay on it until you die.
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No personal experience.
"Behold my rod oh Israel!"
;)
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The older you are, the longer the recovery. Also, you may never recover.
I would not take TRT unless it was absolutely necessary because you have to stay on it until you die.
I know it may sound retarded but honestly I didn't know about this.
It seems to be a bit of a problem, I mean, a really huge one.
So maybe the right choice is to wait as much as possible before going on I guess.
Pity because I wanted to start and talk to my doc about it
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I know it may sound retarded but honestly I didn't know about this.
It seems to be a bit of a problem, I mean, a really huge one.
So maybe the right choice is to wait as much as possible before going on I guess.
Pity because I wanted to start and talk to my doc about it
Getbig isn't the place to ask for advice about testosterone and TRT. Why? Too many here use drugs...it is a drug culture. So when most get older they won't hesitate to get pharmaceutical help.
What I do is embark on a long term program to keep some muscles on my body growing. Hard work but worthwhile if successful. Plus it is a boost for the ego to have big arms, etc.
I make it a point never to waste a mirror! ;D
Too many here are looking for shortcuts. There are always risks when you put foreign substances into your bloodstream.
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Getbig isn't the place to ask for advice about testosterone and TRT. Why? Too many here use drugs...it is a drug culture. So when most get older they won't hesitate to get pharmaceutical help.
What I do is embark on a long term program to keep some muscles on my body growing. Hard work but worthwhile if successful. Plus it is a boost for the ego to have big arms, etc.
I make it a point never to waste a mirror! ;D
Too many here are looking for shortcuts. There are always risks when you put foreign substances into your bloodstream.
Your lucky Vince, I don't look in mirrors as much any more (but I look better than you ;D)
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Your lucky Vince, I don't look in mirrors as much any more (but I look better than you ;D)
I like to observe other people. When I was training at Golds Gym in October 1968 I noticed that Joe always looked at himself in the mirror as he passed one.
I trained there for a month. Arnold arrived there during this time. Joe was very generous. He asked how long I would be in Venice and I said a few weeks.
He never charged me. I offered to do some work there but he said it was okay.
I made it a point not to look in the mirror so much after that. While training that is different. Just a saying I used in my gym, "Conserve.....Never waste a mirror!"
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I'm still natty here, will be 53 in May. 35 years of training. I was going strong up until about age 47, that's when things started to change. I've recently been relegated to working out to every 3nd day. My joints ache a lot more and it takes longer to recover from hard workouts. Heavy benching and squatting is a thing of the past. It sucks, but I'm determined to avoid the TRT route as long as possible.
Look into body tempering. It's great for recovery.
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Getbig isn't the place to ask for advice about testosterone and TRT. Why? Too many here use drugs...it is a drug culture. So when most get older they won't hesitate to get pharmaceutical help.
I have to disagree here Mr. Basile. I found many interesting answers and appreciate all of them, from the experts to less competent ones everybody shared their views on the subject.
And of course I also thank you for speaking your mind
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The older you are, the longer the recovery. Also, you may never recover.
I would not take TRT unless it was absolutely necessary because you have to stay on it until you die.
That is a fallacy.
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That is a fallacy.
Please elaborate.
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Tribulus
Fenugreek
D- Aspartic Acid
Longjack
ZMA
All of these work to boost test naturally without all those nasty side effects.
Vitamin industry BS, get Sustanon 250 & save money ...................... ;)
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Getbig isn't the place to ask for advice about testosterone and TRT. Why? Too many here use drugs...it is a drug culture. So when most get older they won't hesitate to get pharmaceutical help.
What I do is embark on a long term program to keep some muscles on my body growing. Hard work but worthwhile if successful. Plus it is a boost for the ego to have big arms, etc.
I make it a point never to waste a mirror! ;D
Too many here are looking for shortcuts. There are always risks when you put foreign substances into your bloodstream.
Just because what you see in the mirror, and what tape measurement to you confirms that you have big arms, does not mean you have great, good, or even decent arms.
You've been around long enough that you should know better. Age is messin with your head and eyes sir.
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Just because what you see in the mirror, and what tape measurement to you confirms that you have big arms, does not mean you have great, good, or even decent arms.
You've been around long enough that you should know better. Age is messin with your head and eyes sir.
Just because what you see in the mirror, and what tape measurement to you confirms that you have big arms, does not mean you have great, good, or even decent arms.
You've been around long enough that you should know better. Age is messin with your head and eyes sir.
Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.
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Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.
Really?
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Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.
Oh, la la slim & respected old gentlemen vs + 40kg of fat oddity ::)
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Here is a photo with a former student from Malvina High School in Sydney.
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Vitamin industry BS, get Sustanon 250 & save money ...................... ;)
Vitamins are a part of the 'supplement industry', not the other way around.
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Just because what you see in the mirror, and what tape measurement to you confirms that you have big arms, does not mean you have great, good, or even decent arms.
You've been around long enough that you should know better. Age is messin with your head and eyes sir.
Has it ever occurred to you that Vince actually knows the difference between big arms verses muscular and defined arms? Could be he's just having some fun at all of our expense.
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Here is a photo with a former student from Malvina High School in Sydney.
He looks a little light in the loafers. What kind of relationship did the two of you have?
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Has it ever occurred to you that Vince actually knows the difference between big arms verses muscular and defined arms? Could be he's just having some fun at all of our expense.
How do I compare with you? Go look at guys who are 76. How many have large arms from training them?
By the way, I am bulky, not fat! My arms are solid. They have to be to lift with weights I am lifting.
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He looks a little light in the loafers. What kind of relationship did the two of you have?
LOL. No homo here. We were at a Focus Photography Awards night in Sydney. First time I have seen him since Malvina days in 1977.
Look his name up on Facebook and see some great photos. Michael Hruby.
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Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.
Okay, I made the comparison you suggested. Hate to break it to you, Frank Zane looks considerably more fit than you do and he's not even flexing his arms in that photo.
(https://i.smalljoys.me/2017/11/frank-zane-then-now-2.jpg?resize=736%2C824&ssl=1&strip=all)
Frank Zane at 74 years of age.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtC3L8mUIAEJE4a.jpg)
Comparing your physique to Frank Zane's at any age is probably not the best way to go.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/74/a9/0b74a9d0e5131bdee8e562a59dbdb4ec.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=313320.0;attach=353889;image)
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How do I compare with you? Go look at guys who are 76. How many have large arms from training them?
By the way, I am bulky, not fat! My arms are solid. They have to be to lift with weights I am lifting.
Don't take my comments to heart.
Compared to me you look fat bulky. Your arms are likely somewhat solid (can't tell by looking at them). With out doubt you and I have different body types. I have never been as muscular or defined as you when you were a 27 year old Canadian IFBB Pro contestant. All in all, you look okay for a fella who is 76 years old. Has your physician ever suggested you cut a few pounds of 'safety fat' to avoid having a heart attack? How is your blood pressure? -Any issues with diabetes?
One thing is for sure, both you and Zane have more hair than my bald pate.
I've intentionally lost another 5 pounds bringing me down to 170 lbs. Not too bad for being 5'10". I'm working on my body's symmetry. The difference in measurement between my waist and chest is hovering around 10". My glutes are small and my quads have some definition, but no size these day's. Although, I fill out skinny jeans pretty well. Same is true for my arms. I wear 32" X 32" pants. My neck is 16.5". My arms used to match my neck size but now they are only about 15" cold. I haven't consistently gone to the gym in several months. Obviously, I need to get to it.
Most folks who are into bodybuilding and some who are into strength training have a bit of a narcissistic streak. This can result in being overly obsessed with our physiques. It can also make us somewhat delusional when we see ourselves in the mirror or a photo.
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He looks a little light in the loafers. What kind of relationship did the two of you have?
My guess is that he's not. He's been married to his wife Christine since 1967 (also a bodybuilder) .
(https://dodoodad.com/uploads/2018/09/17/-frank-zane-and-his-wife-christine-zane-1537160777.jpg)
(https://dodoodad.com/uploads/article/2017/12/18/american-bodybuilder-frank-zane-is-living-happily-with-his-wife-christine-zane-details-here.png)
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Zane markets himself well. However, if you want to see how he looked about a year ago watch this video.
Not at all a big guy anymore.
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My guess is that he's not. He's been married to his wife Christine in 1967 (also a bodybuilder) .
(https://dodoodad.com/uploads/2018/09/17/-frank-zane-and-his-wife-christine-zane-1537160777.jpg)
(https://dodoodad.com/uploads/article/2017/12/18/american-bodybuilder-frank-zane-is-living-happily-with-his-wife-christine-zane-details-here.png)
Have you considered seeking help for your alcoholism?
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Zane markets himself well. However, if you want to see how he looked about a year ago watch this video.
Not at all a big guy anymore.
Was Zane ever a 'big' guy? During his peak years he claims his contest weight was 180 -185 lbs. and bulked weight was 200 lbs. and stood 5'9". He also had the second thinnest waist, with Sergio coming in first. Those were the good old days when most competition bodybuilders had human sized proportions. In my opinion he had a physique I'd be very pleased to have myself, back in the day.
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Was Zane ever a 'big' guy? During his peak years he claims his contest weight was 180 -185 lbs. and bulked weight was 200 lbs. and stood 5'9". He also had the second thinnest waist, with Sergio coming in first. Those were the good old days when most competition bodybuilders had human sized proportions. In my opinion he had a physique I'd be very pleased to have myself, back in the day.
You are splitting hairs. Zane is a shadow of his former self. An old man with small muscles. Look at the video. Does he look like he lifts weights?
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Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.
You look better than Zane. You're joking, right???
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You are splitting hairs. Zane is a shadow of his former self. An old man with small muscles. Look at the video. Does he look like he lifts weights?
Not necessarily. But then, neither do you. You live an active life well into old age, as have Zane and I. We all must be doing something right, regardless of how we look now as compared to ourselves a younger men.
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No homo here.
Yeah right ::)
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Vince, you got in shape for that 1970 contest but how many years after that did you maintain a bodybuilder's shape?
(http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16691&d=1262958643)
Aside from his competitive years, Frank Zane maintained an excellent physique for his age for several decades:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/50/30/ec/5030ec15199b839fc3ecce293c1da2af.jpg)
(http://www.kif.pl/arch/071/071_016b.jpg) (http://barnorama.com/wp-content/images/2013/01/frank_zane/05-frank_zane.jpg) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NxPRDTf7I64/UyxLi7l1tmI/AAAAAAAAAKk/K0jcilRiI9k/s1600/Zane72.jpg)(http://www.agelesstimeless.com/featured/frank_zane/images/250-frank-8.jpg) (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UENH9qX6FKM/maxresdefault.jpg)
At his current age of 76 he seems to be in good health, not overweight or obese.
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He had to have the smallest skeletal structure of any Olympia winner.
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Do you think Arnold was/is on TRT ?
We know he has heart problems.
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Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.
FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!
I LITERALLY STOPPED READING, CLICKED QOUTE, AND STARTED TYPING FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! AFTER THIS:
"Well, compare me to Frank Zane"
I can't stand Zane, but that comment shows your nutzo and blind. I'm sure it's only going to get worse as I read the rest of this page. :'(
BTW, did I say FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!????????
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Really?
I'd like to request an owl pic please?
Don't take my comments to heart.
Compared to me you look fat bulky. Your arms are likely somewhat solid (can't tell by looking at them). With out doubt you and I have different body types. I have never been as muscular or defined as you when you were a 27 year old Canadian IFBB Pro contestant. All in all, you look okay for a fella who is 76 years old. Has your physician ever suggested you cut a few pounds of 'safety fat' to avoid having a heart attack? How is your blood pressure? -Any issues with diabetes?
One thing is for sure, both you and Zane have more hair than my bald pate.
^^^^This is Prime.....for those that don't know, he might just be the most cordial, and polite member of Get Big.
For Vince B., and those that weren't familiar with Prime, and that info about him.......the above post's bolded parts are in fact Prime's way of saying to Vince B,
FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
That is all ;D
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This photo says it all. What you, Frank Zane!
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^^^^This is Prime.....for those that don't know, he might just be the most cordial, and polite member of Get Big.
For Vince B., and those that weren't familiar with Prime, and that info about him.......the above post's bolded parts are in fact Prime's way of saying to Vince B,
FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
Those were some of the most subtle yet not subtle lines I've seen on here in a bit, lol. Just casually putting him in his place, lol.
That is all ;D
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You have to start realizing you're delusional when Prime even starts pointing it out! Well, most would......,but we'er talking VB here so.......... ::)
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Bumped......
Chaos, OMR, or Princess can you merge this and the "TRT and prostate cancer" thread I just bumped on this board? I don't have time to post right now, and I'm still waiting for a few things to come back in a few days, but a couple people have asked me to post my lab results/update them in both threads.
I might not post this week, but wanted to find the threads now b4 they're buried further.
I put everything into spreadsheets.....,but I don't know how to post them, and I'm afraid to do it a bit as some psychos on here have tracked people down, and posted personal shit. >:( I'm going to see if values hold when copied and pasted when I have time. Otherwise, It's going to take me a long time to type this shit out.
One thing that shocked me, and will likely shock others is that I have 11 areas that have gone from either H or L (excluding test levels). Out of those things my cholesterol changes are pretty mind blowing. This is in the span of just under 3 months!
....Off to the gym! 8)
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Dont take natty Test boosters, or you too can turn into a douche like this guy...
(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/4364c2e4d83fdebce2a6a0a73/images/ea9224bb-5ceb-492f-872a-748b01b6d94a.jpg)
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Dont take natty Test boosters, or you too can turn into a douche like this guy...
(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/4364c2e4d83fdebce2a6a0a73/images/ea9224bb-5ceb-492f-872a-748b01b6d94a.jpg)
Eye of the Tiger.
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Nothing boosts tests, brings test up none of it! Once your over 30 nothing will create test in your body only way is to inject that shit!
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Well, compare me to Frank Zane. We are about the same age. He looks like an ordinary old man now. Arnold has lost most of his impressive size. The list goes on.
My arms are still growing. Triceps are the biggest they have ever been. That is nothing short of amazing to me. I now train arms twice a week. Will see how I go.[/i][/b]
*sigh* not they're not Vince. Not being a dick but I doubt at 76 your test levels are at about 100 or less.
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Dont take natty Test boosters, or you too can turn into a douche like this guy...
(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/4364c2e4d83fdebce2a6a0a73/images/ea9224bb-5ceb-492f-872a-748b01b6d94a.jpg)
lol
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I wonder if Testrol Gold ES does the photoshopping of your body as well?
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Coach are you stil over in Huntington Beach! I’m still 300 and fukn huge! I didn’t forget when you tried to come for me here on getbig! Won’t ever forget that shit bro!
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(https://scontent.fbhx1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53439687_1925996337525883_6725130242425356288_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_eui2=AeHdMSUFSOo2yiN6n5BtZmIzUqO-HgPZgroJseCt8VGmPdoA-ePy7-qn-uiXRCk3tUE51DpFUxK2c5-m0tHH9TvXp3vs4BNhm1nuF92uRs-fTQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx1-1.fna&oh=0e05e8aa1d6c6ec99bbb7760cee3a41d&oe=5CDDA066)
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Need nudes to make my test rise.
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Coach are you stil over in Huntington Beach! I’m still 300 and fukn huge! I didn’t forget when you tried to come for me here on getbig! Won’t ever forget that shit bro!
Don’t have the gym anymore. I’m 91/2 weeks out from Cal, 207 and getting shredded. lol. Don’t hold grudges. Still live here but spend most of my time at Golds Venice