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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: el numero uno on February 27, 2020, 02:39:16 PM
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Seriously, every first world country has it. ::)
Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/mf%20healthcaremap%20p.jpg)
Healthy population -> productive population.
My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.
Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).
Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!
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Universal health care is crap.Simple as that.If I have an issue I get in to the dr within a few days.I have family in Canada and to see a specialist takes months.Not that I go to the dr but my wife and kids do.BERNIE,Fucking sucks and should die a slow painful death.
As far as I’m concerned the USA is the only first world country.
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First of all, what Bernie wants to do will cost an atomic shit-ton of money. Money that just isn't there, unless you want to get taxed up the ass. The math just doesn't work, and he knows that. Pretty much everyone should know that.
Also, when it comes to the quality of medical care, the price is only one aspect of it. Socialized medicine is great as long as there is nothing seriously wrong with you. When you are seriously ill, wait times become very important. Life and death important.
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Its a tax issue. As presented to citizens we would pay more out of pocket based on taxation. The government has clearly demonstrated they dont manage tax funds well. Why would they be trusted with more?
We still use the imperial system, we have had an easier time accepting ideas from the LGQT but cant switch to the metric system.
Paying for universal healthcare isnt how we think.
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The government has clearly demonstrated they dont manage tax funds well. Why would they be trusted with more?
Exactly. Everything the government runs is inefficient and rife with fraud and and corruption. Politicians are just looting the country for everything it's worth right now. Don't trust them.
We need to keep more of our own money. We don't need to give the government more of our money so they can piss it away.
Raising our taxes through the roof and then "giving" us "free" shit is a con. Nothing is free.
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Universal health care is crap.Simple as that.If I have an issue I get in to the dr within a few days.I have family in Canada and to see a specialist takes months.Not that I go to the dr but my wife and kids do.BERNIE,Fucking sucks and should die a slow painful death.
As far as I’m concerned the USA is the only first world country.
👍
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Universal healthcare has bankrupted nearly every country in the western world and is one of the biggest reasons they don't have the defence budgets the USA historically has had. IF the US does similar it will severely effect the amount of money they can put into defence, a dangerous predicament with both China and Russia rising.
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Seriously, every first world country has it. ::)
Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/mf%20healthcaremap%20p.jpg)
Healthy population -> productive population.
My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.
Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).
Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!
Simply put, "democratic socialism" is not communism. Bernie needs to do a better job of explaining the difference. I'd rather have government healthcare that CEO for profit healthcare. Also, a 2nd cousin of mine lives in Toronto. He tore his biceps about 5 years ago. Think it was either a Monday or Tuesday. He had it reattached a week from that Friday. So about 10 days for a very NON life threatening procedure. Canada may not be perfect, but why cant we (the US) take Canada's blue print and perfect it?
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Seriously, every first world country has it. ::)
Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/mf%20healthcaremap%20p.jpg)
Healthy population -> productive population.
My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.
Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).
Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!
Because who is going to pay for it? And service will have to rationed which means long waiting list.
Here is a principle that has never been violated. When the government takes control, whether it's education, housing, healthcare; they never make it better, cheaper, and more efficient. There are always an inherent waste in government spending. They don't have to show a profit like a private business. There is no accountability. Every time they overspend, which is every time, they just take more money from the taxpayers.
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Socialism is a step above Communism. If that old dying fuck Bernie is so concerned about impoverished individuals why doesn’t he donate all his money to those in need. Trump 2020. Dem lineup is useless.
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We are still the number one "first world" country in the world. Why would we want to lower ourselves and emulate countries that are still not at our level yet have been around much longer than we have? That doesn't make sense. We need less restrictions, not more.
The more socialism is introduced, the more we lessen the gap.
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It’s because insurance companies run this scheme.
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Contrary to popular belief the US does have universal health care. If you’re broke and sick or injured, you go to the ER where they treat you regardless of your ability to pay. And the hospital knows that 80% of the people who come there can’t afford to pay so they charge insurance companies 4-5x the reasonable rate knowing they’ll get stiffed by most people.
Don’t believe me? Go down to any ER or ask anyone who works as an EMT, hospital biller, ER doctor or nurse about who comprises the vast majority of people seeking emergency treatment.
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Contrary to popular belief the US does have universal health care. If you’re broke and sick or injured, you go to the ER where they treat you regardless of your ability to pay. And the hospital knows that 80% of the people who come there can’t afford to pay so they charge insurance companies 4-5x the reasonable rate knowing they’ll get stiffed by most people.
Don’t believe me? Go down to any ER or ask anyone who works as an EMT, hospital biller, ER doctor or nurse about who comprises the vast majority of people seeking emergency treatment.
True. When I did not have insurance, it was much, much cheaper then when they can now bill the insurance company.
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Contrary to popular belief the US does have universal health care. If you’re broke and sick or injured, you go to the ER where they treat you regardless of your ability to pay. And the hospital knows that 80% of the people who come there can’t afford to pay so they charge insurance companies 4-5x the reasonable rate knowing they’ll get stiffed by most people.
Don’t believe me? Go down to any ER or ask anyone who works as an EMT, hospital biller, ER doctor or nurse about who comprises the vast majority of people seeking emergency treatment.
This is a truth people against some manner of universal healthcare don't want to know. What is so humorous is the those of us with healthcare insurance are already paying for those without and have for decades. Many folks with their heads up their asses don't want to think about this. I don't know about England or Canada, but Doctors in Germany don't get paid exorbitant fees like they do in the U.S. and prescription drugs are incredibly less expensive as compared to here.
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Medicaid and Medicare have been around for a long time. There continues to be many throughout time in the US (the very poor and the retired) who have benefited from free universal Healthcare and will continue to do so.
"1"
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Medicaid and Medicare have been around for a long time. There continues to be many throughout time in the US (the very poor and the retired) who have benefited from free universal Healthcare and will continue to do so.
"1"
Thank you.
Too much contradictory information on the internet. Most websites claim that if you don't have insurance you'll die. Very few people mention the very poor will get treated for free.
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Contrary to popular belief the US does have universal health care. If you’re broke and sick or injured, you go to the ER where they treat you regardless of your ability to pay. And the hospital knows that 80% of the people who come there can’t afford to pay so they charge insurance companies 4-5x the reasonable rate knowing they’ll get stiffed by most people.
Don’t believe me? Go down to any ER or ask anyone who works as an EMT, hospital biller, ER doctor or nurse about who comprises the vast majority of people seeking emergency treatment.
So what happens afterwards?
Are they sued for bills or just let off?
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If I had a guarantee that every one of my fellow Americans was drinking lots of water, exercising several times a week and washing their hands after they pinch a loaf, then maybe. As such, I don't feel like paying for the lung operation of someone who smoked for years on end, or for the liver treatment of an alcoholic.
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I love it when people pretend that Democratic Socialism is somehow different than regular Socialism.
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Why is it when wealthy (non American) people need an important surgery or operation they often come to the US?
Why do foreigners want to become American citizens so they can practice medicine in the US?
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Simply put, "democratic socialism" is not communism. Bernie needs to do a better job of explaining the difference. I'd rather have government healthcare that CEO for profit healthcare. Also, a 2nd cousin of mine lives in Toronto. He tore his biceps about 5 years ago. Think it was either a Monday or Tuesday. He had it reattached a week from that Friday. So about 10 days for a very NON life threatening procedure. Canada may not be perfect, but why cant we (the US) take Canada's blue print and perfect it?
Bernie can’t competently explain it himself. In truth there is no difference between “democratic socialism” or socialism. I’m not being facetious when I say that. When asked during interviews how this will be paid, he skates and gets defensive. He’s a dyed in the wool communist
“The goal of socialism is communism” -
Vladimir Lenin
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Bernie can’t competently explain it himself. In truth there is no difference between “democratic socialism” or socialism. I’m not being facetious when I say that. When asked during interviews how this will be paid, he skates and gets defensive. He’s a dyed in the wool communist
“The goal of socialism is communism” -
Vladimir Lenin
Health care, education and defense (military & police) should not be for profit aka they should be socialized.
We should STOP socializing big pharma and gas companies.
That is Bernie right there.
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We are still the number one "first world" country in the world. Why would we want to lower ourselves and emulate countries that are still not at our level yet have been around much longer than we have? That doesn't make sense. We need less restrictions, not more.
The more socialism is introduced, the more we lessen the gap.
Well, the problem is that our healthcare is far from number one--it's around #40 when ranked globally. Not only that, but we pay far more for our healthcare than any other country. Not to mention the millions and millions of Americans that are uninsured or underinsured.
Maybe we SHOULD start emulating the other countries that manage to deliver superior care for less money
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So what happens afterwards?
Are they sued for bills or just let off?
The bills go into collection for pennies on the dollar, and the hospital charges everybody else more to make up for the loss. Part of the reason healthcare costs are so high is because the insured subsidize the uninsured. With universal healthcare, these types of situations would not occur
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Well, the problem is that our healthcare is far from number one--it's around #40 when ranked globally. Not only that, but we pay far more for our healthcare than any other country. Not to mention the millions and millions of Americans that are uninsured or underinsured.
Maybe we SHOULD start emulating the other countries that manage to deliver superior care for less money
Their are 39 other countries that provide better health care than we do? Can you prove this?
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"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan."
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailysquib.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F11%2Fobama-clown_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Don't trust these people. It's going to cost much more that they promise, and the care will be way shittier than they promise. They are habitual liars trying to separate you from your money.
Don't be a fucking fool.
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Who will pay for universal healthcare? Mexicans?
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Universal health care is crap.Simple as that.If I have an issue I get in to the dr within a few days.I have family in Canada and to see a specialist takes months.Not that I go to the dr but my wife and kids do.BERNIE,Fucking sucks and should die a slow painful death.
As far as I’m concerned the USA is the only first world country.
So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes ;D
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So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes ;D
I agree with you and all the points you've made except for your disparaging remarks about Mr. RobCGuns. He is a solid dude and I hope to one day overdose on THC edibles with him. No homo.
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Medicaid and Medicare have been around for a long time. There continues to be many throughout time in the US (the very poor and the retired) who have benefited from free universal Healthcare and will continue to do so.
"1"
Medicare is a benefit. It is not free, however. The standard monthly premium will be $144.60 for 2020 for part B. The annual deductible for Medicare Part B is $198. About 7% of beneficiaries will pay extra from income-related adjustment amounts. Prescription drug (part D) are an additional cost. Medicaid comes closer to being free since only people who's incomes fall below 150% FPL don't pay premiums, everyone else does.
Although Part C coverage costs more than original Medicare, without a supplement or other coverage like Medigap insurance, original Medicare leaves a lot of coverage gaps that may leave you with medical bills that you’re unable to pay. Most people elect to enroll in Part C coverage to protect against these costly expenses.
If you elect to receive Part D coverage as part of original Medicare, you will pay your portion of the monthly premium. This varies depending on the plan you choose but the nationwide average for 2018 is $34 per month.
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Canada does it just fine. Partly because they have a moral law that bans pharmaceutical companies from direct advertising to the public. No "Ask your doctor about" bullshit. No other developed nation permits direct advertising of drugs to the public. It's immoral. Every major pharmaceutical company from Phizer to Merck spends more money on advertising than they do on research and development. The government puppets also allow Pharmaceutical giants to pay off companies to NOT make a generic version. They immorally extend patents when they expire so a generic can't come out. It's fine to scream at the little guy "Who's gonna pay for it?" Just make sure you scream at the big, immoral drug giants too.
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Canada does it just fine. Partly because they have a moral law that bans pharmaceutical companies from direct advertising to the public. No "Ask your doctor about" bullshit. No other developed nation permits direct advertising of drugs to the public. It's immoral. Every major pharmaceutical company from Phizer to Merck spends more money on advertising than they do on research and development. The government puppets also allow Pharmaceutical giants to pay off companies to NOT make a generic version. They immorally extend patents when they expire so a generic can't come out. It's fine to scream at the little guy "Who's gonna pay for it?" Just make sure you scream at the big, immoral drug giants too.
That is a very important point. I've had people argue with me and defend insurance & pharmaceutical companies because of all the R&D they do. To which I always say bullshit. Insurance companies are bookies. Plain and simple.
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Because who is going to pay for it? And service will have to rationed which means long waiting list.
Here is a principle that has never been violated. When the government takes control, whether it's education, housing, healthcare; they never make it better, cheaper, and more efficient. There are always an inherent waste in government spending. They don't have to show a profit like a private business. There is no accountability. Every time they overspend, which is every time, they just take more money from the taxpayers.
This. If you don't like your doctor or health insurer you go get a different doctor or health insurer. If the government runs the healthcare system you are stuck with what you are offered with no choice. The government fucks up everything it touches because of no competition.
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Seriously, every first world country has it. ::)
Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/mf%20healthcaremap%20p.jpg)
Healthy population -> productive population.
My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.
Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).
Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!
How is Bern going to pay for it? By raising taxes. Universal healthcare does have some advantages, but it has downsides as well. Within 1-2 generations, the level of care drops off with socialized medicine. Come to Canada and see the ridiculous wait times for basic care, along with apathetic doctors that are clueless and don't give a shit, assuming you can even get a family doctor in the first place.
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People, especially Europeans, seem to think that the US system is free market. It’s not. It’s an intervened system. The primary characteristic of US healthcare is employer sponsored. This came about strictly as a result of a government intervention during World War II which capped wage rates. Companies started offering healthcare instead which was then made nontaxable. Heathcare costs started going up as a result of changed incentives for consumers and providers and a crowding out of individual plan options. It also created a need for Medicare as people who retired suddenly lost their healthcare. Seriously, why would want your employer in charge of your healthcare?
Bernie is right but has a solution which is more of what caused the problem in the first place. Every industry where the government has a big footprint cost are out of control. See education.
And if you want to tout Canada, feel free to explain why 50K Canadians a year come to the US for surgery.
At the end of the day you have two systems: Price and line.
You have line in Venezuela where the people had to eat zoo animals. In the US you have price (at least in some industries) where ghetto blacks and Hispanics as a group are the most obese people in the world.
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I'm on the fence. I find buying the quality of care you can afford to be repugnant and antithetical to democratic dignity and civilization that would advance beyond the law of the goddamn jungle. On the other hand is reality. Socialized medicine in Australia is a joke. If there's something bad going on you'll basically die in the queue if you opt to wait for government care.
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Another thing that would help would be to ease up on licensing requirements. You can’t create unlimited demand for healthcare and at the same place strict limitations on supply.
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So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes ;D
You can’t treat a geographically, racially and economically diverse country like the US as a monolith. For example there are some areas of the country that are the most dangerous in the world and some that have almost no crime.
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I agree with you and all the points you've made except for your disparaging remarks about Mr. RobCGuns. He is a solid dude and I hope to one day overdose on THC edibles with him. No homo.
Thank you kind sir.We shall do this soon.
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So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes ;D
I will always say the USA is the best country in the world with the best everything as I believe it to be true. Simple as that.
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Seriously, every first world country has it. ::)
Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/mf%20healthcaremap%20p.jpg)
Healthy population -> productive population.
My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.
Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).
Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!
Every White country...is what you mean to say.
Our countries are vastly superior to the garbage bins of the world, and we don't particularly want to subsidize people who disproportionately consume social services, and will inevitably result in the complete eradication of those social services.
China, in its constitution, will not allow its nation to become non-Chinese. Mexico has that in its constitution as well.
As Canada has become more diverse, the demand for private healthcare has increased.
Thank you for pointing to a big map showing the superiority of White-majority societies.
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Every White country...is what you mean to say.
Our countries are vastly superior to the garbage bins of the world, and we don't particularly want to subsidize people who disproportionately consume social services, and will inevitably result in the complete eradication of those social services.
China, in its constitution, will not allow its nation to become non-Chinese. Mexico has that in its constitution as well.
As Canada has become more diverse, the demand for private healthcare has increased.
Thank you for pointing to a big map showing the superiority of White-majority societies.
Hey idiot, you're canadian and Canada has universal healthcare.
Go bang your head on traffic lights poles.
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People, especially Europeans, seem to think that the US system is free market. It’s not. It’s an intervened system. The primary characteristic of US healthcare is employer sponsored. This came about strictly as a result of a government intervention during World War II which capped wage rates. Companies started offering healthcare instead which was then made nontaxable. Heathcare costs started going up as a result of changed incentives for consumers and providers and a crowding out of individual plan options. It also created a need for Medicare as people who retired suddenly lost their healthcare. Seriously, why would want your employer in charge of your healthcare?
Bernie is right but has a solution which is more of what caused the problem in the first place. Every industry where the government has a big footprint cost are out of control. See education.
And if you want to tout Canada, feel free to explain why 50K Canadians a year come to the US for surgery.
Because 50k Canadians is 1 in 1000 and all of them are probably in the 99 percentile of richer Canadians? ???
How is this even a question?
At the end of the day you have two systems: Price and line.
You have line in Venezuela where the people had to eat zoo animals. In the US you have price (at least in some industries) where ghetto blacks and Hispanics as a group are the most obese people in the world.
Nice fallacy there.
Every Marxist regime has Universal Healthcare, but not every regime with Universal Healthcare is Marxist.
If b is a subset of a, b doesn't equal a.
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Their are 39 other countries that provide better health care than we do? Can you prove this?
It shouldn't be surprising, a country that guarantees healthcare to its citizens should rank higher than the US almost by default.
This paper by the WHO has the US ranked #37 in "healthcare system efficiency":
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf
They measure efficiency by three factors: improvement in the health of the population, responsiveness to public health needs, and fairness in financing. There are some that receive excellent, comprehensive healthcare in the US but there are many more that do not. A Gallup poll indicated that 13.8% of Americans were uninsured in 4Q 2018--almost 1 out of 7 Americans. As you might expect, being uninsured is associated with increased mortality and morbidity.
The other major area in which we lag other countries is infant mortality. We ranked 33rd out of the 36 OECD countries ranked, with 5.9 deaths/1000 births. Iceland was ranked 1st with 0.7d/1000b. Inabiliy to access healthcare during/after pregnancy is a significant risk factor for infant mortality, for obvious reasons.
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American healthcare is a corrupt system.
Why a blood test cost $350 for insured patients and only $100 if you pay cash ???
I used to go to a chiropractor that charged me $45 per visit (with insurance ), $20 if you paid cash
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I could understand the desire to maintain the current system if Americans were getting superior care, but we cant even lay claim to that.
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I will always say the USA is the best country in the world with the best everything as I believe it to be true. Simple as that.
So what? You know this by what? You haven't been anywhere else, and your intelligence is on the level, where you take salesman words as an absolute truth. USA must be best place on earth, because the salesman say so? It doesn't matter, you see, when you get this virus, you will be facing that superior health care, and see what it's all about. Just go and make sure that your insurance plan cover all what you will be needing..
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I could understand the desire to maintain the current system if Americans were getting superior care, but we cant even lay claim to that.
You don't understand? Universal health care is pure communism, while fire departments, police, library etc. services paid from the taxation isn't. So simple.. ;D
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So what? You know this by what? You haven't been anywhere else, and your intelligence is on the level, where you take salesman words as an absolute truth. USA must be best place on earth, because the salesman say so? It doesn't matter, you see, when you get this virus, you will be facing that superior health care, and see what it's all about. Just go and make sure that your insurance plan cover all what you will be needing..
Find any country where the living is as good as the USA,Won’t happen.Health care seems pretty great to me.My father needed a valve replaced last month and they got him in in 2 weeks and it wasn’t an emergency they said.Id say that’s pretty damn good.
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"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan."
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailysquib.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F11%2Fobama-clown_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Don't trust these people. It's going to cost much more that they promise, and the care will be way shittier than they promise. They are habitual liars trying to separate you from your money.
Don't be a fucking fool.
never rely on government regardless of party
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Find any country where the living is as good as the USA,Won’t happen.Health care seems pretty great to me.My father needed a valve replaced last month and they got him in in 2 weeks and it wasn’t an emergency they said.Id say that’s pretty damn good.
The nicest house on the block still makes repairs when somethings broken.
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So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes ;D
You’re so angry and defensive. Why?
He’s a point you’re missing with your statistics.
300+ million citizens in the US. 11,000 babies are born EACH DAY here. Do you know how many are born a day in Romania? Less than 550.
So your per 1000 birth numbers don’t include the variables that come into play with those kind of numbers.
I know you will argue this, and all I can say is when the coronavirus hits I hope you see the best doctors Romania has to offer.
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You’re so angry and defensive. Why?
He’s a point you’re missing with your statistics.
300+ million citizens in the US. 11,000 babies are born EACH DAY here. Do you know how many are born a day in Romania? Less than 550.
So your per 1000 birth numbers don’t include the variables that come into play with those kind of numbers.
I know you will argue this, and all I can say is when the coronavirus hits I hope you see the best doctors Romania has to offer.
Lmfao
Rates are inherently expressed in relative terms, not absolute terms.
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Lmfao
Rates are inherently expressed in relative terms, not absolute terms.
Yup so when you’re using those rates to demonstrate who has better health care it’s kinda silly.
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You’re so angry and defensive. Why?
He’s a point you’re missing with your statistics.
300+ million citizens in the US. 11,000 babies are born EACH DAY here. Do you know how many are born a day in Romania? Less than 550.
So your per 1000 birth numbers don’t include the variables that come into play with those kind of numbers.
I know you will argue this, and all I can say is when the coronavirus hits I hope you see the best doctors Romania has to offer.
Haha I think I would take my chances not seeing a Romanian doctor.
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The American healthcare system is a broken, corrupt industry.
And this is coming from someone with good health benefits.
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The American healthcare system is a broken, corrupt industry.
And this is coming from someone with good health benefits.
SF1900 are willing to share your autozone benefits with a friend who is not Rory?
The system is broken but it seems like the only way it will be fixed is with a total collapse. On paper Obamacare was a good idea until you realized it was "mandatory" health care that wasnt truly affordable for those needed it (high copays).
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So what? You know this by what? You haven't been anywhere else, and your intelligence is on the level, where you take salesman words as an absolute truth. USA must be best place on earth, because the salesman say so? It doesn't matter, you see, when you get this virus, you will be facing that superior health care, and see what it's all about. Just go and make sure that your insurance plan cover all what you will be needing..
What country do you think is better than the US to live?
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What country do you think is better than the US to live?
Doesnt that depend on a specific area?
Some areas are great and some a shit, a bit like all countries
Some areas in the UK are nice, cities not so much
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I don't owe anybody a living. I don't owe anybody a free ride. The bullshit of Johnson's "Great Society" is a farce. Nothing in life is free, someone is paying for it.
Get a fooking job. I recently spoke with some young folk that work at gas station/convenience stores and they have health insurance through work.
Oh wait! They pay for it...
As for what is the greatest nation in the world? The U.S.A. If someone thinks otherwise, fine. I can respect a nation that is a Nation unto itself. For example, Britain is putting the "great" back into it's name, i.e., Great Britain.
Canada is screwed. Sweden is screwed. Germany and France want to be screwed more.
I hope Canada and Sweden wake up from being woke and take back their heritage and make their home a Nation once again.
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What country do you think is better than the US to live?
It depends which country has the better salesman.
If the coronavirus is fatal to the elderly and former smokers and the baby boomers are the largest population, does it really matter how great of health care they have access to if the disease is a death sentence?
The statistics will be skewed in Ropo's favor!!
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Well, the problem is that our healthcare is far from number one--it's around #40 when ranked globally. Not only that, but we pay far more for our healthcare than any other country. Not to mention the millions and millions of Americans that are uninsured or underinsured.
Maybe we SHOULD start emulating the other countries that manage to deliver superior care for less money
USA thinks USA is center of the universe lol
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Everything doesn't have to be US love it or Leave it rhetoric. Obviously the US is the greatest country on the earth but it has major problems and the biggest is healthcare. Like I mentioned before, no major country allows direct marketing of drugs to the public. It's just immoral and allso allows tremendous waste as pharma spends billions on "ask your doctor" ads. Its just wrong and advertising is the single largest expense of every major drug company. If that's ok with people than just say Hell yeah, American Capitalism rules, post a picture of John Wayne and accept a broken healthcare system.
A report from the California-based Institute for Health and Socio-Economic Policy stated that in 2015 out of the top 100 pharmaceutical companies by sales, 64 spent twice as much on marketing and sales than on R&D, 58 spent three times, 43 spent five times as much and 27 spent 10 times the amount [3].Mar 13, 2018
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This is a good piece on the subject. As I said, the current US Healthcare system is largely the result of government intervention. That’s why it’s so inefficient:
How We Got to Now: A Brief History of Employer-Sponsored Healthcare
https://www.griffinbenefits.com/employeebenefitsblog/history-of-employer-sponsored-healthcare?hs_amp=true
To combat inflation, the 1942 Stabilization Act was passed. Designed to limit employers' freedom to raise wages and thus to compete on the basis of pay for scarce workers, the actual result of the act was that employers began to offer health benefits as incentives instead.
Suddenly, employers were in the health insurance business. Because health benefits could be considered part of compensation but did not count as income, workers did not have to pay income tax or payroll taxes on those benefits. Thus, by 1943, employers had an increased incentive to make health insurance arrangements for their workers, and the modern era of employer-sponsored health insurance began, a pivotal point in the History of Healthcare in America.
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It’s astonishing, but sadly not unexpected, the level of red-baiting that arrises whenever the subject of single-payer health care pops up. Also expected is the cynical question: “How are you going to pay for it!?”. Funny, this question is/was NEVER posed when the defense authorization bill comes to a vote, or the bailouts for the banks went through in 2008, or handing out lucrative subsidies to gigantic corporations such as Exxon, Boeing, Raytheon, etc. We could absolutely afford an expanded Medicare-for-All program. The government of the USA is a monetary sovereign. That is to say it issues its own currency which it creates. Tax-payer dollars don’t fund federal programs, and thus it is really disingenuous to propose elaborate tax plans and fear-monger about going broke. The government can literally never run out of dollars. We can run short on resources, doctors, equipment, labor, etc. but not dollars.
The only reason politicians argue in such a fashion against single-payer is because their donors don’t want it.
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You’re so angry and defensive. Why?
He’s a point you’re missing with your statistics.
300+ million citizens in the US. 11,000 babies are born EACH DAY here. Do you know how many are born a day in Romania? Less than 550.
So your per 1000 birth numbers don’t include the variables that come into play with those kind of numbers.
I know you will argue this, and all I can say is when the coronavirus hits I hope you see the best doctors Romania has to offer.
You didn't understand that figures are per 1000 born child? If we combine European countries to match +300 million citizens, US is still at the level of Romania etc. because all European countries has far better statistic than US ;D
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Everything doesn't have to be US love it or Leave it rhetoric. Obviously the US is the greatest country on the earth but it has major problems and the biggest is healthcare. Like I mentioned before, no major country allows direct marketing of drugs to the public. It's just immoral and allso allows tremendous waste as pharma spends billions on "ask your doctor" ads. Its just wrong and advertising is the single largest expense of every major drug company. If that's ok with people than just say Hell yeah, American Capitalism rules, post a picture of John Wayne and accept a broken healthcare system.
A report from the California-based Institute for Health and Socio-Economic Policy stated that in 2015 out of the top 100 pharmaceutical companies by sales, 64 spent twice as much on marketing and sales than on R&D, 58 spent three times, 43 spent five times as much and 27 spent 10 times the amount [3].Mar 13, 2018
So what? Universal health care is still just pure communism, while fire departments, police, library etc. services paid from the taxation isn't. Never wondering why? Because police would have slight difficulties to write invoices about their work, just as fire departments would have. You call 911, and first what they do is ask about your chequebook balance to find out, do you afford their services. But in the other hand, doctors has no difficulties at all to write that invoice, and fill it by Latin so you don't have a clue what they will charge from you ;D
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This is a good piece on the subject. As I said, the current US Healthcare system is largely the result of government intervention. That’s why it’s so inefficient:
How We Got to Now: A Brief History of Employer-Sponsored Healthcare
https://www.griffinbenefits.com/employeebenefitsblog/history-of-employer-sponsored-healthcare?hs_amp=true
To combat inflation, the 1942 Stabilization Act was passed. Designed to limit employers' freedom to raise wages and thus to compete on the basis of pay for scarce workers, the actual result of the act was that employers began to offer health benefits as incentives instead.
Suddenly, employers were in the health insurance business. Because health benefits could be considered part of compensation but did not count as income, workers did not have to pay income tax or payroll taxes on those benefits. Thus, by 1943, employers had an increased incentive to make health insurance arrangements for their workers, and the modern era of employer-sponsored health insurance began, a pivotal point in the History of Healthcare in America.
Finally, someone tells the truth how we got into this mess. And once again it was because of the government meddling in private transactions. In any transaction, there should be only two parties involved: the buyer and the seller. When a third party, that suffers none of the responsibilities and consequences of the transaction, gets involved it always goes bad. When they think that they know better than the actual parties who are involved in the sale and determine the worth of the good or service of concern. In this case, the government during WW2 put a freeze on wages. They passed a law which prevented/limited what an employer can pay an employee. Think of that. If I wanted to give you a certain amount of money for your service the government can tell you "no" you can't give him that much. You have to give him less. Imagine you selling your old jalopy for a $1,000 but, but say I like you and for some reason, or no reason, I decided to give you $5,000 what right does anybody have to say you can't? I should be able give as little or as much money to anybody for any reason or no reason and you can either take it or leave it.
So, to get around these ridiculous restrictions that's when employers started offering "benefits" to attract valuable employees that they weren't allowed to pay with a higher salary. Then you started adding other benefits like paid leave (vacation pay, sick pay) and other incentives getting employers involved in something they should not have been involved with in the first place. And, of course, these "benefits", like all benefits soon become, became entitlements.
And whenever you have a third-party payer, price always goes up. When your doctor scheduled you for an Xray or MRI did you ever ask how much it costs? Did you shop around for the best deal? Why would you? It's not coming directly out of your pocket.
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This. If you don't like your doctor or health insurer you go get a different doctor or health insurer. If the government runs the healthcare system you are stuck with what you are offered with no choice. The government fucks up everything it touches because of no competition.
Have you lived in a country where there was universal healthcare and actually had this experience? My son and his family live in Germany, they choose their doctors and change doctors if needed. They live in a village of about 1,200 people and there is only one local doctor, but an array of doctors are available 20K away in Würzburg. My son has Tri-care because he works for the U.S. government. He sometimes chooses to go to a German doctor instead.
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I lived in Mexico for five years and while I can't speak on the entire system, for non controlled, non dangerous medications it's over the counter. Why many travel there. I have high blood pressure and needed blood pressure medication. I went to a clinic for a couple bucks, took my blood pressure and went to the pharmacy to get blood pressure meds for a few bucks. Same brand as USA, everything. Came back to the US, went to CVS walk in clinic and it was not only $100 to take my blood pressure, they then demanded I go get a full blood panel for $100 so the lab gets their share, then finally got the script and it was 10 times the price, along with a 5 hour wait. Even Retin A, it's a fucking skin cream for wrinkles, but it's prescription so $100 dermatologist visit then ridiculous price.
USA is great and the best but there are some very minor things such as affordable drugs that can easily be fixed.
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Universal healthcare and a high tax system only work in high IQ societies and those without alot of ethnic minority groups. We see now dissassembly of it in nations bringing in mass immigration in Europe.
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Have you lived in a country where there was universal healthcare and actually had this experience? My son and his family live in Germany, they choose their doctors and change doctors if needed. They live in a village of about 1,200 people and there is only one local doctor, but an array of doctors are available 20K away in Würzburg. My son has Tri-care because he works for the U.S. government. He sometimes chooses to go to a German doctor instead.
No, I haven't lived in another country like Germany but I know several Canadians who complain about wait times and actually come to the U.S. if they have a serious condition.
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Only a few in this thread understand that the US is not a pure capitalist system in regards to the healthcare system. It has gotten worse (like all the other countries) the further it has moved away.
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Only a few in this thread understand that the US is not a pure capitalist system in regards to the healthcare system. It has gotten worse (like all the other countries) the further it has moved away.
Yes, the government started the problem in the first place and has just made it worse ever since.
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American healthcare is a corrupt system.
Why a blood test cost $350 for insured patients and only $100 if you pay cash ???
I used to go to a chiropractor that charged me $45 per visit (with insurance ), $20 if you paid cash
It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted, If you don't have insurance they bill you full price. They ream you. If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge. This is why you have to go to doctors in your network that have agreed to accept the insurers pay plan unless you negotiate your charge upfront. Tough to do in an emergency.
The insurance company knocks down the billed amount to the doctor. The doctors bills the insurer for $350 but he only gets a reduced amount.
Some doctors will take your insurance but won't accept the insurers payout and bill you the difference.
I went to a dentist for awhile who did that. Greedy b*st*rd.
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It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted, If you don't have insurance they bill you full price. They ream you. If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge.
No true
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No true
Truth.
Your chiro bills for $45 and gets paid $20.
He has you pay $20 in cash.
They bill $350 for bloodwork but only get $100 from insurance.
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Want to wait 3 months to see an orthopedic surgeon? You will if the government decides your care. 75 years old and you need a stent then government run health care are not giving that to you.
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It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted, If you don't have insurance they bill you full price. They ream you. If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge. This is why you have to go to doctors in your network that have agreed to accept the insurers pay plan unless you negotiate your charge upfront. Tough to do in an emergency.
The insurance company knocks down the billed amount to the doctor. The doctors bills the insurer for $350 but he only gets a reduced amount.
Some doctors will take your insurance but won't accept the insurers payout and bill you the difference.
I went to the Orthopedic Surgeon and he billed the insurance company like 1,100 for one X-ray and to see me for 10-15 minutes. Criminal. I’m assuming he got like 600-900 from the insurance company.
My copay was only 35.
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Want to wait 3 months to see an orthopedic surgeon? You will if the government decides your care. 75 years old and you need a stent then government run health care are not giving that to you.
You cant be serious - the 75 year old getting a stent is on Medicare through the federal government. ???
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I don't want the Government telling me what health care I can and can't have. I want to have the freedom to buy what I want, make my OWN decisions...
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Want to wait 3 months to see an orthopedic surgeon? You will if the government decides your care. 75 years old and you need a stent then government run health care are not giving that to you.
There’s a joke in Canada about how it’s easier to get an MRI for your pet than for yourself:
Saskatchewan's MRI wait-list doubled from 2015 to 2019
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/wait-list-mri-sask-1.5445158
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I don't want the Government telling me what health care I can and can't have. I want to have the freedom to buy what I want, make my OWN decisions...
Universal Healthcare doesn't prohibit private practice.
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You cant be serious - the 75 year old getting a stent is on Medicare through the federal government. ???
Exactly.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/b98885a23f99a2276b74c5350c083908/raw)
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I went to the Orthopedic Surgeon and he billed the insurance company like 1,100 for one X-ray and to see me for 10-15 minutes. Criminal. I’m assuming he got like 600-900 from the insurance company.
My copay was only 35.
Precisely.
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/389ef4710fd2dfba16290469d658ba94/tumblr_ozsf7p7oVC1qa05h5o1_400.gif)
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Precisely.
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/389ef4710fd2dfba16290469d658ba94/tumblr_ozsf7p7oVC1qa05h5o1_400.gif)
But, imagine if I didn't have insurance--crazy.
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But, imagine if I didn't have insurance--crazy.
Imagine if your house burned down or you wrecked your car and you didn't have insurance.
You got to have it. Unless you can afford to self-insure.
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Universal Healthcare doesn't prohibit private practice.
So a person should have to pay for private AND public insurance?
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So a person should have to pay for private AND public insurance?
Like school taxes get paid by people who send their kids to private schools.
We're all paying Medicare taxes and unless we are 65 we aren't using it.
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Like school taxes get paid by people who send their kids to private schools.
We're all paying Medicare taxes and unless we are 65 we aren't using it.
Yes but you know Medicare is available to you when you turn 65. El Numero Uno is saying we should have to pay more tax to create a public option and then pay for separate insurance if we actually want good healthcare.
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It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted, If you don't have insurance they bill you full price. They ream you. If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge. This is why you have to go to doctors in your network that have agreed to accept the insurers pay plan unless you negotiate your charge upfront. Tough to do in an emergency.
The insurance company knocks down the billed amount to the doctor. The doctors bills the insurer for $350 but he only gets a reduced amount.
Some doctors will take your insurance but won't accept the insurers payout and bill you the difference.
I went to a dentist for awhile who did that. Greedy b*st*rd.
Next time you go to the doctor make sure they are in your health insurer's network. I had a similar thing happen with a dentist who bought my previous dentist's practice. Thinking nothing had changed as a result of this, I had a crown done by the new guy and was charged the full amount because he didn't take my insurance. Needless to say, he got no more business from me.
If your healthcare provider is in-network with your insurance plan, then they'll simply zero out the balance. If they're not, however, whatever the insurance company does not pay for will be billed to you. This is why you may still receive medical bills after insurance pays its portion of your costs.
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So a person should have to pay for private AND public insurance?
1. You don't have too.
2. Even if you do, private practice is extremely affordable when there's Universal Healthcare.
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1. You don't have too.
2. Even if you do, private practice is extremely affordable when there's Universal Healthcare.
If a person pays for private insurance they still have to pay higher taxes so the public care gets funded. So they are paying both.
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If a person pays for private insurance they still have to pay higher taxes so the public care gets funded. So they are paying both.
You don't have to pay for private medicine.
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If a person pays for private insurance they still have to pay higher taxes so the public care gets funded. So they are paying both.
And?
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There is no obvious answer.
However, I don’t get how many people in this thread actually think the US healthcare system does not need reforming. It’s a disgustingly, corrupted system that needs major reforming.
The problem is that no one has a middle ground answer.
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There is no obvious answer.
However, I don’t get how many people in this thread actually think the US healthcare system does not need reforming. It’s a disgustingly, corrupted system that needs major reforming.
The problem is that no one has a middle ground answer.
This truly is the problem with how to improve the healthcare system. There is no single fix. The current system is not going to go down easily, because the profits are too great for all involved to allow this. Some of us have great health insurance coverage. If there is even a hint we might have to give something up for the good of all, we won't do it lightly and without a fight. Scare tactics like saying, you'll have to wait to see a doctor and the doctor you see will not be your choice or your taxes will sky-rocket in order to pay for universal healthcare, work.
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The American healthcare system is a broken, corrupt industry.
And this is coming from someone with good health benefits.
Not so much corrupt but it's the way that it is structured that gives an incentive to increase costs that breeds corruption. The government simply cannot "fix" or provide efficient, affordable healthcare. That's because it is a third-party payer. As I mentioned before, any legal transaction should be solely concerned with just the buyer and seller. They both have an incentive to get the best deal. When a third party, suffers none of the consequences of the transaction, gets involved it always goes bad. Think about it:
When anybody purchases anything they are primarily looking at two things: price and quality. The lowest price for the highest quality. Say you want to buy a car, the market is full of choices competing for your dollars and only you can decide which best fits your needs. That's a first-party purchase. The person paying is the person using.
But then you have a situation where way you are buying something for someone else. In that case, you are very concerned about the price but a little more relaxed on the quality. You care about the price because you're paying for it but less so about the quality because you are not going to use it.
Then there's the situation where you are going to use something but you are not the one paying for it. Then you are concerned more about the quality because you are going to use it but not so much about the price because you are not paying for it.
Both of these are examples of second party purchases. The person paying is NOT the person using.
Then we have the situation where you are not the person paying nor are you the person using. Therefore, you are not as concern with either the price or quality. That's a third party purchase. A purchase made with money that's not yours to buy something that you are not going to use.
So, by definition, all government purchases are third party purchases. Thus, there will always be an inherent waste in government spending. Of course, there are things the government has to purchase, like for example, national defense. But the government should only do things that people can't do themselves.
Imagine if everybody were free to buy health care for themselves? Just like they buy their life, home, and car insurance. Now insurance companies and hospitals will be forced to compete for our business. Quality would go up and price would go down. I remember when Laser eye surgery use to cost around $2,500 per eye. Now you can get it as low as $500 with much better quality. Competition creates an incentive to lower cost and improve quality. That's just the way free enterprise competition works every time. Every damn time.
When the government gets involved cost goes up and waste and fraud go up. There is no incentive to decrease price because they are not paying, nor is there an incentive to increase quality because they are not the one using.
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Not so much corrupt but it's the way that it is structured that gives an incentive to increase costs that breeds corruption. The government simply cannot "fix" or provide efficient, affordable healthcare. That's because it is a third-party payer. As I mentioned before, any legal transaction should be solely concerned with just the buyer and seller. They both have an incentive to get the best deal. When a third party, suffers none of the consequences of the transaction, gets involved it always goes bad. Think about it:
When anybody purchases anything they are primarily looking at two things: price and quality. The lowest price for the highest quality. Say you want to buy a car, the market is full of choices competing for your dollars and only you can decide which best fits your needs. That's a first-party purchase. The person paying is the person using.
But then you have a situation where way you are buying something for someone else. In that case, you are very concerned about the price but a little more relaxed on the quality. You care about the price because you're paying for it but less so about the quality because you are not going to use it.
Then there's the situation where you are going to use something but you are not the one paying for it. Then you are concerned more about the quality because you are going to use it but not so much about the price because you are not paying for it.
Both of these are examples of second party purchases. The person paying is NOT the person using.
Then we have the situation where you are not the person paying nor are you the person using. Therefore, you are not as concern with either the price or quality. That's a third party purchase. A purchase made with money that's not yours to buy something that you are not going to use.
So, by definition, all government purchases are third party purchases. Thus, there will always be an inherent waste in government spending. Of course, there are things the government has to purchase, like for example, national defense. But the government should only do things that people can't do themselves.
Imagine if everybody were free to buy health care for themselves? Just like they buy their life, home, and car insurance. Now insurance companies and hospitals will be forced to compete for our business. Quality would go up and price would go down. I remember when Laser eye surgery use to cost around $2,500 per eye. Now you can get it as low as $500 with much better quality. Competition creates an incentive to lower cost and improve quality. That's just the way free enterprise competition works every time. Every damn time.
When the government gets involved cost goes up and waste and fraud go up. There is no incentive to decrease price because they are not paying, nor is there an incentive to increase quality because they are not the one using.
Its corruption boils down to big pharma.
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This truly is the problem with how to improve the healthcare system. There is no single fix. The current system is not going to go down easily, because the profits are too great for all involved to allow this. Some of us have great health insurance coverage. If there is even a hint we might have to give something up for the good of all, we won't do it lightly and without a fight. Scare tactics like saying, you'll have to wait to see a doctor and the doctor you see will not be your choice or your taxes will sky-rocket in order to pay for universal healthcare, work.
Exactly.
And I don’t have the answer either, but I assume things can improve by people who are experts in this field.
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Its corruption boils down to big pharma.
That's because "big" pharma can lobby the government for policies that benefit them. If the government was not involved they would have nobody to enact these policies. They would have to compete for consumer dollars like any other industry or business.
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That's because "big" pharma can lobby the government for policies that benefit them. If the government was not involved they would have nobody to enact these policies. They would have to compete for consumer dollars like any other industry or business.
These policies come in the form of regulation that is vital to public safety. Surely you are not suggesting that the government deregulate pharmaceutical drugs entirely?
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Exactly.
And I don’t have the answer either, but I assume things can improve by people who are experts in this field.
One hopes that there can be some degree of compassion for those who under the current healthcare systems have no good options.
I was recently prescribed eye drops (Restasis and Lotemax) that run $500 and $265 for a one month supply. If I had to pay full price, I'd definitely not fill them. Fortunately, I found a manufacturer's coupon for Lotemax which pay's all but $60 for three months. My part D insurance provider paid the better part of a 90 supply of Restasis after the doctor wrote a letter justifying my need for it.
Age related vision issues are common. They are not life threatening. People with low or modest incomes likely ignore them and may not even have had them diagnosed since vision insurance doesn't offer great coverage. Much the same is true for dental insurance. I am having a fractured tooth crowned this month. The cost to do this is almost $1,500. My dental insurance only covers preventative care, which this is not according to them. Last month, I had a small chip in one of my front teeth repaired. It ran me $275.
The last few years that my wife was alive but acutely ill, our out of pocket medical expenses ranged between $8,000 and $10,000 a year. This was with Regence MedAdvantage health insurance coverage. Out of pocket costs for non-network dialysis ran us $450 a week. We went with the out of network dialysis because it was located about a mile from our home. In network dialysis was a good half hour drive each way. This meant 4 trips because I wasn't going to hang out at the hospital for an average of 6 hours, three days a week while my wife was hooked up to the machine.
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These policies come in the form of regulation that is vital to public safety. Surely you are not suggesting that the government deregulate pharmaceutical drugs entirely?
No, I am not suggesting that. The pharmaceutical companies do not lobby the government for more regulations. Remember, I am talking about the government providing health care. Something they should not be doing.
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You don't have to pay for private medicine.
And they get the shitty public option with long waits. Why should you have to pay for both? If Bernie were president after a few years the libs would be crying about how it's not fair the rich get better healthcare so they would either ban it or require the rich and upper middle class pay for everyone's private care as well.
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And?
And that's no problem if you're a socialist parasite.
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And they get the shitty public option with long waits. Why should you have to pay for both? If Bernie were president after a few years the libs would be crying about how it's not fair the rich get better healthcare so they would either ban it or require the rich and upper middle class pay for everyone's private care as well.
People bitch about the government all the time. Say it's corrupt, they don't trust them, waste money... yet, in the same breath they still want to give the government more control over their lives.
I just don't get it.
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Let’s be honest. Most doctors are fucking useless. They’re basically pill dispensers. Eventually there will be computer algos to diagnose you with greater accuracy.
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People bitch about the government all the time. Say it's corrupt, they don't trust them, waste money... yet, in the same breath they still want to give the government more control over their lives.
I just don't get it.
And these people hate "evil corporations" because they make a profit. If you don't like a corporation for a product or service there is competition you can go to replace the product or service and any money you give is by choice. The government forces you to comply and forces you to pay with no recourse.
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There is no obvious answer.
However, I don’t get how many people in this thread actually think the US healthcare system does not need reforming. It’s a disgustingly, corrupted system that needs major reforming.
The problem is that no one has a middle ground answer.
No cost controls.
None of the politicians' plans address cost control.
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Imagine if your house burned down or you wrecked your car and you didn't have insurance.
You got to have it. Unless you can afford to self-insure.
Yup. One wrong incident and you’re bankrupt.
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There is no obvious answer.
However, I don’t get how many people in this thread actually think the US healthcare system does not need reforming. It’s a disgustingly, corrupted system that needs major reforming.
The problem is that no one has a middle ground answer.
We have the best healthcare in the World...BUT it's too expensive..The only way to lower costs is more competition, not less, (like Universal healthcare). The Government is notoriously inificient.
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We have the best healthcare in the World...BUT it's too expensive..The only way to lower costs is more competition, not less, (like Universal healthcare). The Government is notoriously inificient.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196) -ProudVirgin69
So by the statistics, your "best of the world" health care is globally in 40th place, not number one. 40th from 195 country's, but you are in good company: you are just about at the same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, so you really have a reason to be proud about it. You see, all of those other countries has that filthy and crappy universal health care..So if you live in a wooden hut in Chile, or hut made from camel dung in Lebanon, you get just as good health care you could buy US of A with Really Fking Expensive Price ;D
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196) -ProudVirgin69
So by the statistics, your "best of the world" health care is globally in 40th place, not number one. 40th from 195 country's, but you are in good company: you are just about at the same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, so you really have a reason to be proud about it. You see, all of those other countries has that filthy and crappy universal health care..So if you live in a wooden hut in Chile, or hut made from camel dung in Lebanon, you get just as good health care you could buy US of A with Really Fking Expensive Price ;D
Not sure where anyone would get the idea that the U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world. I've never seen anything that supports that. Maybe it is the best in the world for those who can afford one of the 'Cadillac plans'.
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196) -ProudVirgin69
So by the statistics, your "best of the world" health care is globally in 40th place, not number one. 40th from 195 country's, but you are in good company: you are just about at the same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, so you really have a reason to be proud about it. You see, all of those other countries has that filthy and crappy universal health care..So if you live in a wooden hut in Chile, or hut made from camel dung in Lebanon, you get just as good health care you could buy US of A with Really Fking Expensive Price ;D
Ropo, Saudi Arabia ranked 26th in 2019 for best health care in the world.
Would you prefer to have a surgery in Saudi Arabia over the US?
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Ropo, Saudi Arabia ranked 26th in 2019 for best health care in the world.
Would you prefer to have a surgery in Saudi Arabia over the US?
Depends on why they are ranked higher than the U.S. If it isbecause of the quality of healthcare, then yes, I would have surgery in Saudi Arabia over the U.S. if all else was equal.
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Depends on why they are ranked higher than the U.S. If it isbecause of the quality of healthcare, then yes, I would have surgery in Saudi Arabia over the U.S. if all else was equal.
You should start looking for economically priced tickets then.
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Remind me once again why people who eat right, don’t abuse alcohol or drugs and exercise regularly should subsidize fat slobs who have never exercised a day in their lives, eat like pigs and abuse alcohol and cigarettes.
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You should start looking for economically priced tickets then.
I don't need surgery.
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Anything the federal government touches turns to shit...
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Remind me once again why people who eat right, don’t abuse alcohol or drugs and exercise regularly should subsidize fat slobs who have never exercised a day in their lives, eat like pigs and abuse alcohol and cigarettes.
Yeah, because only obese, alcoholic, nicotine addicts experience health problems. ::)
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Yeah, because only obese, alcoholic, nicotine addicts experience health problems. ::)
? You missed the point of his post.
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Yeah, because only obese, alcoholic, nicotine addicts experience health problems. ::)
Yeah, and they experience them at the same rates as fit healthy people.
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? You missed the point of his post.
No, his point his "but individual responsability...".
New flash: we live in a society.
Yes, some demographics will take a bigger portion of the pie. Does that mean the whole system is broken?
If you think it is, you may as well call for the closing of public schools, since a substantial proportion of the students will drop out.
And while you are at it get rid of fire departments since you'll probably never use it. Why is some random idiot who caused a fire receiving a benefit I paid for?
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No, his point his "but individual responsability...".
New flash: we live in a society.
Yes, some demographics will take a bigger portion of the pie. Does that mean the whole system is broken?
If you think it is, you may as well call for the closing of public schools, since a substantial proportion of the students will drop out.
And while you are at it get rid of fire departments since you'll probably never use it. Why is some random idiot who caused a fire receiving a benefit I paid for?
So if you’re going to give us the we live in a society bullshit. How come the people who abuse themselves don’t have any consideration for the other people who will be picking up the tab for their behavior? How come you don’t take them to task?
It makes me laugh when people call Bernie Sanders and his followers progressives. They’re the exact opposite. They want to prop up failing Government industries when we live in a time of disruption.
Yeah, let’s give teachers more fucking money when recent technological advancements have rendered most of the educational infrastructure redundant.
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One hopes that there can be some degree of compassion for those who under the current healthcare systems have no good options.
I was recently prescribed eye drops (Restasis and Lotemax) that run $500 and $265 for a one month supply. If I had to pay full price, I'd definitely not fill them. Fortunately, I found a manufacturer's coupon for Lotemax which pay's all but $60 for three months. My part D insurance provider paid the better part of a 90 supply of Restasis after the doctor wrote a letter justifying my need for it.
Age related vision issues are common. They are not life threatening. People with low or modest incomes likely ignore them and may not even have had them diagnosed since vision insurance doesn't offer great coverage. Much the same is true for dental insurance. I am having a fractured tooth crowned this month. The cost to do this is almost $1,500. My dental insurance only covers preventative care, which this is not according to them. Last month, I had a small chip in one of my front teeth repaired. It ran me $275.
The last few years that my wife was alive but acutely ill, our out of pocket medical expenses ranged between $8,000 and $10,000 a year. This was with Regence MedAdvantage health insurance coverage. Out of pocket costs for non-network dialysis ran us $450 a week. We went with the out of network dialysis because it was located about a mile from our home. In network dialysis was a good half hour drive each way. This meant 4 trips because I wasn't going to hang out at the hospital for an average of 6 hours, three days a week while my wife was hooked up to the machine.
Right on man. That bitch would have to be insane to think you would waste your time keeping her company and comforting. Not while there are glory holes and cocks to suck!!
Sorry man - that just struck me. My uncle had dialysis and my pops spent the time with him. He didn’t have many years left and dad used that time to share with him. When I have a close family member - muchless my fckn WIFE in the hospital - you can’t drag me away. Pretty young (relatively) still so it hasn’t happened much - but I’ve cancelled a few headline speaking gigs unfortunately. I know my value and knew it wouldn’t hurt me - but even if it had I don’t care.
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So if you’re going to give us the we live in a society bullshit. How come the people who abuse themselves don’t have any consideration for the other people who will be picking up the tab for their behavior? How come you don’t take them to task?
It makes me laugh when people call Bernie Sanders and his followers progressives. They’re the exact opposite. They want to prop up failing Government industries when we live in a time of disruption.
Yeah, let’s give teachers more fucking money when recent technological advancements have rendered most of the educational infrastructure redundant.
How is bullshit a well established fact? We're social animals, period.
People who you think abuse the system have it rough. In a capitalist regime (best political system by far as long as it's regulated) those who thrive are the ones with talent or capital and most people have none.
You want a society where people have nothing to lose? You can't have one.
You think poor people just need to try harder? Sorry, that's not gonna fly.
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Ropo, Saudi Arabia ranked 26th in 2019 for best health care in the world.
Would you prefer to have a surgery in Saudi Arabia over the US?
I don't afford US health care, so it would be Saudi Arabia, which is oil rich country, lot of new modern hospitals, good hygienic etc. Who would you trust better, this bunch,
(https://media.glassdoor.com/l/3c/5a/9b/e0/al-rass-general-hospital.jpg)
or this bunch?
(https://data.whicdn.com/images/261192937/original.jpg) ;D
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Right on man. That bitch would have to be insane to think you would waste your time keeping her company and comforting. Not while there are glory holes and cocks to suck!!
Sorry man - that just struck me. My uncle had dialysis and my pops spent the time with him. He didn’t have many years left and dad used that time to share with him. When I have a close family member - muchless my fckn WIFE in the hospital - you can’t drag me away. Pretty young (relatively) still so it hasn’t happened much - but I’ve cancelled a few headline speaking gigs unfortunately. I know my value and knew it wouldn’t hurt me - but even if it had I don’t care.
Great post. That cock sucker doesn't want to drive a whole half hour for his wife. He obviously thought it was worth it to pay extra for out of network facilities so he doesn't lose an hour of his life. That's serious cock sucking time. But that was his choice and he complains about it. Typical leftist. That feeling of entitlement. The whole world has to conform to his convenience.
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Not sure where anyone would get the idea that the U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world. I've never seen anything that supports that. Maybe it is the best in the world for those who can afford one of the 'Cadillac plans'.
Not sure? This happen only because salesman say so. You have heard it from your childhood, just as your parents and their parents, but at some point it stop to be the truth. That point is very near to the point where they invent those "Cadillac plans".
In one week there is 105 cases of this virus in US, and 6 deaths. 11th place of this ranking, and it is going up. 105/6 from 330 million americans, is nothing, isn't it. But you have 30 million people without any kind of health insurance + all illegal emigrants, al those who are living on the streets, homeles people, trailer parks filled with simple rednecks and nignogs etc. You have lot of the low income- people, who are ready to get this virus, but who doesn't have any means to get treatment for it. It will be interesting to see where this is going in next few weeks ;D
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Not sure? This happen only because salesman say so. You have heard it from your childhood, just as your parents and their parents, but at some point it stop to be the truth. That point is very near to the point where they invent those "Cadillac plans".
In one week there is 105 cases of this virus in US, and 6 deaths. 11th place of this ranking, and it is going up. 105/6 from 330 million americans, is nothing, isn't it. But you have 30 million people without any kind of health insurance + all illegal emigrants, al those who are living on the streets, homeles people, trailer parks filled with simple rednecks and nignogs etc. You have lot of the low income- people, who are ready to get this virus, but who doesn't have any means to get treatment for it. It will be interesting to see where this is going in next few weeks ;D
The poor and street folk will probably do better because their immune systems are stronger.
Odd but likely.
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? You missed the point of his post.
He’s not willing to accept the point. To believe in liberal ideology you have to have a tremendous degree of cognitive dissonance. In San Francisco a once beautiful city was turned into a shit hole and the Liberals there can’t even entertain the possibility that their policies are largely to blame.
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That post Prime made about his wife was heartbreaking (from her perspective). Poor lady. Imagine the loneliness.
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=661985.msg9358196#msg9358196) -ProudVirgin69
So by the statistics, your "best of the world" health care is globally in 40th place, not number one. 40th from 195 country's, but you are in good company: you are just about at the same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, so you really have a reason to be proud about it. You see, all of those other countries has that filthy and crappy universal health care..So if you live in a wooden hut in Chile, or hut made from camel dung in Lebanon, you get just as good health care you could buy US of A with Really Fking Expensive Price ;D
https://www.businessinsider.com/10-reasons-why-the-us-health-care-system-is-the-envy-of-the-world-2010-3
It's hard to measure overall success when evaluating healthcare...The US has large numbers of dysfunctional "third Worlders' who abuse their bodies and large numbers of dropouts who have given up on life. You can't force people to eat well, exercise etc.
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If our system of healthcare is so shitty, then no foreigners (especially muslimes) should be allowed in no matter how ill they are. Fuck 'em all to Hades.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/10-reasons-why-the-us-health-care-system-is-the-envy-of-the-world-2010-3
It's hard to measure overall success when evaluating healthcare...The US has large numbers of dysfunctional "third Worlders' who abuse their bodies and large numbers of dropouts who have given up on life. You can't force people to eat well, exercise etc.
And then you present the link about the medical services, which only few can afford, as a points which rest of the world is envy? Services which you get only if you have top of the line health insurance, or endless amount of money. And you compare that to the nations, which has universal health care, knowing that in the US you get the statistics only from those, who get treatment by health care organisations. All other countries include everybody in their statistics, no difference if you are rich or poor. So if you make a statistics just from the most wealthy people who has used health care in European countries, will that statistic tell the truth? If we look at the fields of the health care where income has less impact, like infant mortality rate, US is competing with third world countries.
At the moment there is 125 cases of this corona-virus in US, 9 deaths and 8 has recovered from it. Last monday there were 60 cases, so if that amount doubles every three days, and amount of deaths tripled, this will be interesting.. ;D
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So if you’re going to give us the we live in a society bullshit. How come the people who abuse themselves don’t have any consideration for the other people who will be picking up the tab for their behavior? How come you don’t take them to task?
It makes me laugh when people call Bernie Sanders and his followers progressives. They’re the exact opposite. They want to prop up failing Government industries when we live in a time of disruption.
Yeah, let’s give teachers more fucking money when recent technological advancements have rendered most of the educational infrastructure redundant.
The bigger question is why do all people behave as they do? The easy answer is that it is human nature. The correct answer is that people behave in many different ways for many different reasons. There is no clear cut answer to this.
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It's hard to compare the U.S. to other countries. Few are as diverse and have such wide swings in wealth.
Top level medical care in the U.S. is second to none which is why rich people often come here for procedures.
If you're at the bottom with no health insurance or care then any free program is a step up. Anything is better than nothing, even a mediocre government run plan.
It's usually those caught in the middle somewhere, sometimes have become unemployed and lost their health insurance and then had a medical problem, who get in trouble.
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All the buzz about healthcare primarily focuses on insurance costs. That doesn’t address the real cost of healthcare. The costs the medical establishment charge for care. Deal with that elephant and you can reduce costs. Pharmaceuticals, medical devices, delivery costs . Question is how to reduce it AND not stymie development of new treatments
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And then you present the link about the medical services, which only few can afford, as a points which rest of the world is envy? Services which you get only if you have top of the line health insurance, or endless amount of money. And you compare that to the nations, which has universal health care, knowing that in the US you get the statistics only from those, who get treatment by health care organisations. All other countries include everybody in their statistics, no difference if you are rich or poor. So if you make a statistics just from the most wealthy people who has used health care in European countries, will that statistic tell the truth? If we look at the fields of the health care where income has less impact, like infant mortality rate, US is competing with third world countries.
At the moment there is 125 cases of this corona-virus in US, 9 deaths and 8 has recovered from it. Last monday there were 60 cases, so if that amount doubles every three days, and amount of deaths tripled, this will be interesting.. ;D
You obviously are not American...Let me educate you. Only 8.5 of Americans have no health insurance and they get free, top quality care at any emergency room in the country. Most Americans have employee funded insurance and are happy with it and coronavirus cases at this point mean nothing.
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You obviously are not American...Let me educate you. Only 8.5 of Americans have no health insurance and they get free, top quality care at any emergency room in the country. Most Americans have employee funded insurance and are happy with it and coronavirus cases at this point mean nothing.
Of course they do, it is just as easy than spreading bullshit in the internet. And then back to the reality:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-live-in-America-without-health-insurance (https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-live-in-America-without-health-insurance)
8.5% of Americans equals ~30 million people. It is just plain stupidity to think that your emergency rooms could handle that bunch, if they get this silly virus. By the way, in that number we have to add those +10 million illegal immigrants which you have there running around, so in fact there will be more than 40 million people without proper health care..
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You obviously are not American...Let me educate you. Only 8.5 of Americans have no health insurance and they get free, top quality care at any emergency room in the country. Most Americans have employee funded insurance and are happy with it and coronavirus cases at this point mean nothing.
"In 2018, 8.5 percent of people, or 27.5 million, did not have health insurance at any point during the year. The uninsured rate and number of uninsured increased from 2017 (7.9 percent or 25.6 million)."
https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-264.html
Your stats for 2018 are right on. Not sure how much this has changed in the last year or so. Still, 25.6 million people with no health insurance are a lot. There are 5,564 registered hospitals in the U.S., according to the American Hospital Association. This statistic includes federal hospitals, long-term care hospitals, psychiatric hospitals, institutions for the mentally disabled and alcohol and other chemical dependency rehabilitation hospitals, many of which have emergency facilities. 1 in 5 adults visit the ER each year. If you've ever gone to emergency at a major hospital you know that there is often a very long wait to see a doctor or medical assistant.
Emergency room care is not free. Those who can afford to pay either through medical insurance plus a hefty co-pay or out of pocket, do pay. What's more, you can go to an Urgent Care Center without insurance and be treated, but if you can't afford to pay, they could turn you away. Urgent Care Centers are not bound by the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act and most require some form of payment at the time of service.
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I don't afford US health care, so it would be Saudi Arabia, which is oil rich country, lot of new modern hospitals, good hygienic etc. Who would you trust better, this bunch,
(https://media.glassdoor.com/l/3c/5a/9b/e0/al-rass-general-hospital.jpg)
or this bunch?
(https://data.whicdn.com/images/261192937/original.jpg) ;D
LOL
You win.
You racist bro?
What country are the murses from?
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Not sure? This happen only because salesman say so. You have heard it from your childhood, just as your parents and their parents, but at some point it stop to be the truth. That point is very near to the point where they invent those "Cadillac plans".
In one week there is 105 cases of this virus in US, and 6 deaths. 11th place of this ranking, and it is going up. 105/6 from 330 million americans, is nothing, isn't it. But you have 30 million people without any kind of health insurance + all illegal emigrants, al those who are living on the streets, homeles people, trailer parks filled with simple rednecks and nignogs etc. You have lot of the low income- people, who are ready to get this virus, but who doesn't have any means to get treatment for it. It will be interesting to see where this is going in next few weeks ;D
Illegal immigrants get health care when the come to the states. Where did you hear they dont?
The poor also get health care, doctors offices aren't refusing people?
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Illegal immigrants get health care when the come to the states. Where did you hear they dont?
The poor also get health care, doctors offices aren't refusing people?
A doctor may refuse to see a patient for any reason or for no cited reason at all. Many doctors do not take Medicare patients because the paperwork is too extensive.
Illegal immigrants get healthcare in the same way everyone else does, either through health insurance or out of pocket. Those who cannot afford to pay, have the option of showing up and waiting at a hospital ER. Unless they have a serious medical condition, they are quickly dismissed with an Aspirin, etc.
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Of course they do, it is just as easy than spreading bullshit in the internet. And then back to the reality:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-live-in-America-without-health-insurance (https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-live-in-America-without-health-insurance)
8.5% of Americans equals ~30 million people. It is just plain stupidity to think that your emergency rooms could handle that bunch, if they get this silly virus. By the way, in that number we have to add those +10 million illegal immigrants which you have there running around, so in fact there will be more than 40 million people without proper health care..
Please tell me what third World country you are from? I can tell you are not American.
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A doctor may refuse to see a patient for any reason or for no cited reason at all. Many doctors do not take Medicare patients because the paperwork is too extensive.
Illegal immigrants get healthcare in the same way everyone else does, either through health insurance or out of pocket. Those who cannot afford to pay, have the option of showing up and waiting at a hospital ER. Unless they have a serious medical condition, they are quickly dismissed with an Aspirin, etc.
Ok fine. Many doctors refuse new patients regardless of insurance coverage.
What the general topic was when someone vists a hospital/er/or ready med. Or if an ambulance is called.
In these situations people ARE NOT REFUSES CARE.
Where are illegal immigrants getting insurance from? What about a Canadian vistor who has an emergency? Is their universal healthcare used in America? What about the paperwork?
You're wrong but thanks for commenting.
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Ropo, Saudi Arabia ranked 26th in 2019 for best health care in the world.
Would you prefer to have a surgery in Saudi Arabia over the US?
Which of these two surgeons would you prefer ?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/a5-6xUpXs4nydoynCSTi7uSfGtrcgcL3-BNl3xwrS-xGGwX3MpUxWYydmcAAjEW6VJjwsScp6GNro06Tx26jZOF9cqAJphATcGC71-PtKYxu5WOZNfuz_2uHpclUx2nr-hUiesNgvcLslfb6aU-rnMocExU50kTuZM7FmlnzxeY9OQERUmLZ-utPoEmSW9GA)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Ben_Carson_official_portrait.jpg)
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Which of these two surgeons would you prefer ?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/a5-6xUpXs4nydoynCSTi7uSfGtrcgcL3-BNl3xwrS-xGGwX3MpUxWYydmcAAjEW6VJjwsScp6GNro06Tx26jZOF9cqAJphATcGC71-PtKYxu5WOZNfuz_2uHpclUx2nr-hUiesNgvcLslfb6aU-rnMocExU50kTuZM7FmlnzxeY9OQERUmLZ-utPoEmSW9GA)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Ben_Carson_official_portrait.jpg)
I prefer they work as a team. Two heads are better than one.
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LOL
You win.
You racist bro?
What country are the murses from?
Racist? Not at all. I am anti stupidity, and stupidity has no colours. Those murses has US uniforms and tags, so would that be a great leap of imagination to assume, that they are from US? ;D