Author Topic: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?  (Read 17744 times)

IroNat

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2020, 05:03:42 AM »
American healthcare is a corrupt system.

Why a blood test cost $350 for insured patients and only $100  if you pay cash ???

I used to go to a chiropractor that charged me $45 per visit (with insurance ), $20 if you paid cash

It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted,  If you don't have insurance they bill you full price.  They ream you.  If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge.  This is why you have to go to doctors in your network that have agreed to accept the insurers pay plan unless you negotiate your charge upfront.  Tough to do in an emergency.

The insurance company knocks down the billed amount to the doctor.  The doctors bills the insurer for $350 but he only gets a reduced amount.

Some doctors will take your insurance but won't accept the insurers payout and bill you the difference.

I went to a dentist for awhile who did that.  Greedy b*st*rd.



che

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #76 on: March 01, 2020, 06:46:06 AM »
It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted,  If you don't have insurance they bill you full price.  They ream you.  If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge. 


No true

IroNat

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #77 on: March 01, 2020, 07:41:11 AM »
No true

Truth.

Your chiro bills for $45 and gets paid $20.

He has you pay $20 in cash.

They bill $350 for bloodwork but only get $100 from insurance.




oldtimer1

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #78 on: March 01, 2020, 08:05:33 AM »
Want to wait 3 months to see an orthopedic surgeon? You will if the government decides your care. 75 years old and you need a stent then government run health care are not giving that to you.

SF1900

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #79 on: March 01, 2020, 08:09:34 AM »
It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted,  If you don't have insurance they bill you full price.  They ream you.  If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge.  This is why you have to go to doctors in your network that have agreed to accept the insurers pay plan unless you negotiate your charge upfront.  Tough to do in an emergency.

The insurance company knocks down the billed amount to the doctor.  The doctors bills the insurer for $350 but he only gets a reduced amount.

Some doctors will take your insurance but won't accept the insurers payout and bill you the difference.




I went to the Orthopedic Surgeon and he billed the insurance company like 1,100 for one X-ray and to see me for 10-15 minutes. Criminal. I’m assuming he got like 600-900 from the insurance company.

My copay was only 35.
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ProudVirgin69

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #80 on: March 01, 2020, 08:34:49 AM »
Want to wait 3 months to see an orthopedic surgeon? You will if the government decides your care. 75 years old and you need a stent then government run health care are not giving that to you.

You cant be serious - the 75 year old getting a stent is on Medicare through the federal government.  ???

oldgolds

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #81 on: March 01, 2020, 08:49:22 AM »
I don't want the Government telling  me what health care I can and can't have. I want to have the freedom to buy what I want, make my OWN decisions...

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #82 on: March 01, 2020, 09:29:51 AM »
Want to wait 3 months to see an orthopedic surgeon? You will if the government decides your care. 75 years old and you need a stent then government run health care are not giving that to you.

There’s a joke in Canada about how it’s easier to get an MRI for your pet than for yourself:

Saskatchewan's MRI wait-list doubled from 2015 to 2019

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/wait-list-mri-sask-1.5445158

el numero uno

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #83 on: March 01, 2020, 09:54:04 AM »
I don't want the Government telling  me what health care I can and can't have. I want to have the freedom to buy what I want, make my OWN decisions...

Universal Healthcare doesn't prohibit private practice.

IroNat

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #84 on: March 01, 2020, 10:50:40 AM »
You cant be serious - the 75 year old getting a stent is on Medicare through the federal government.  ???


Exactly.


IroNat

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #85 on: March 01, 2020, 10:51:54 AM »
I went to the Orthopedic Surgeon and he billed the insurance company like 1,100 for one X-ray and to see me for 10-15 minutes. Criminal. I’m assuming he got like 600-900 from the insurance company.

My copay was only 35.


Precisely.


SF1900

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2020, 11:05:32 AM »
Precisely.



But, imagine if I didn't have insurance--crazy.
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IroNat

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #87 on: March 01, 2020, 11:12:51 AM »
But, imagine if I didn't have insurance--crazy.

Imagine if your house burned down or you wrecked your car and you didn't have insurance.

You got to have it.  Unless you can afford to self-insure.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #88 on: March 01, 2020, 12:30:53 PM »
Universal Healthcare doesn't prohibit private practice.

So a person should have to pay for private AND public insurance?

IroNat

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #89 on: March 01, 2020, 12:41:01 PM »
So a person should have to pay for private AND public insurance?

Like school taxes get paid by people who send their kids to private schools.

We're all paying Medicare taxes and unless we are 65 we aren't using it.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2020, 12:46:47 PM »
Like school taxes get paid by people who send their kids to private schools.

We're all paying Medicare taxes and unless we are 65 we aren't using it.
Yes but you know Medicare is available to you when you turn 65.  El Numero Uno is saying we should have to pay more tax to create a public option and then pay for separate insurance if we actually want good healthcare.

Primemuscle

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2020, 12:56:17 PM »
It's actually most often the opposite of what you posted,  If you don't have insurance they bill you full price.  They ream you.  If you have insurance the insurer negotiates a reduced charge.  This is why you have to go to doctors in your network that have agreed to accept the insurers pay plan unless you negotiate your charge upfront.  Tough to do in an emergency.

The insurance company knocks down the billed amount to the doctor.  The doctors bills the insurer for $350 but he only gets a reduced amount.

Some doctors will take your insurance but won't accept the insurers payout and bill you the difference.

I went to a dentist for awhile who did that.  Greedy b*st*rd.




Next time you go to the doctor make sure they are in your health insurer's network. I had a similar thing happen with a dentist who bought my previous dentist's practice. Thinking nothing had changed as a result of this, I had a crown done by the new guy and was charged the full amount because he didn't take my insurance. Needless to say, he got no more business from me.

If your healthcare provider is in-network with your insurance plan, then they'll simply zero out the balance. If they're not, however, whatever the insurance company does not pay for will be billed to you. This is why you may still receive medical bills after insurance pays its portion of your costs.

el numero uno

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #92 on: March 01, 2020, 12:58:45 PM »
So a person should have to pay for private AND public insurance?

1. You don't have too.

2. Even if you do, private practice is extremely affordable when there's Universal Healthcare. 

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #93 on: March 01, 2020, 01:10:22 PM »
1. You don't have too.

2. Even if you do, private practice is extremely affordable when there's Universal Healthcare. 
If a person pays for private insurance they still have to pay higher taxes so the public care gets funded.  So they are paying both.

el numero uno

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2020, 01:17:46 PM »
If a person pays for private insurance they still have to pay higher taxes so the public care gets funded.  So they are paying both.

You don't have to pay for private medicine.

Primemuscle

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2020, 01:18:07 PM »
If a person pays for private insurance they still have to pay higher taxes so the public care gets funded.  So they are paying both.

And?

SF1900

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2020, 01:19:32 PM »
There is no obvious answer.

However, I don’t get how many people in this thread actually think the US healthcare system does not need reforming. It’s a disgustingly, corrupted system that needs major reforming.

The problem is that no one has a middle ground answer.
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Primemuscle

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2020, 01:31:51 PM »
There is no obvious answer.

However, I don’t get how many people in this thread actually think the US healthcare system does not need reforming. It’s a disgustingly, corrupted system that needs major reforming.

The problem is that no one has a middle ground answer.


This truly is the problem with how to improve the healthcare system. There is no single fix. The current system is not going to go down easily, because the profits are too great for all involved to allow this. Some of us have great health insurance coverage. If there is even a hint we might have to give something up for the good of all, we won't do it lightly and without a fight. Scare tactics like saying, you'll have to wait to see a doctor and the doctor you see will not be your choice or your taxes will sky-rocket in order to pay for universal healthcare, work.

pellius

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2020, 01:36:39 PM »
The American healthcare system is a broken, corrupt industry.

And this is coming from someone with good health benefits.

Not so much corrupt but it's the way that it is structured that gives an incentive to increase costs that breeds corruption. The government simply cannot "fix" or provide efficient, affordable healthcare. That's because it is a third-party payer.  As I mentioned before, any legal transaction should be solely concerned with just the buyer and seller. They both have an incentive to get the best deal. When a third party, suffers none of the consequences of the transaction, gets involved it always goes bad. Think about it:

When anybody purchases anything they are primarily looking at two things: price and quality. The lowest price for the highest quality. Say you want to buy a car, the market is full of choices competing for your dollars and only you can decide which best fits your needs. That's a first-party purchase. The person paying is the person using.

But then you have a situation where way you are buying something for someone else. In that case, you are very concerned about the price but a little more relaxed on the quality. You care about the price because you're paying for it but less so about the quality because you are not going to use it.

Then there's the situation where you are going to use something but you are not the one paying for it. Then you are concerned more about the quality because you are going to use it but not so much about the price because you are not paying for it.

Both of these are examples of second party purchases. The person paying is NOT the person using.

Then we have the situation where you are not the person paying nor are you the person using. Therefore, you are not as concern with either the price or quality. That's a third party purchase. A purchase made with money that's not yours to buy something that you are not going to use.

So, by definition, all government purchases are third party purchases. Thus, there will always be an inherent waste in government spending. Of course, there are things the government has to purchase, like for example, national defense. But the government should only do things that people can't do themselves.

Imagine if everybody were free to buy health care for themselves? Just like they buy their life, home, and car insurance. Now insurance companies and hospitals will be forced to compete for our business. Quality would go up and price would go down. I remember when Laser eye surgery use to cost around $2,500 per eye. Now you can get it as low as $500 with much better quality. Competition creates an incentive to lower cost and improve quality. That's just the way free enterprise competition works every time. Every damn time.

When the government gets involved cost goes up and waste and fraud go up. There is no incentive to decrease price because they are not paying, nor is there an incentive to increase quality because they are not the one using.







SF1900

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Re: Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2020, 01:38:40 PM »
Not so much corrupt but it's the way that it is structured that gives an incentive to increase costs that breeds corruption. The government simply cannot "fix" or provide efficient, affordable healthcare. That's because it is a third-party payer.  As I mentioned before, any legal transaction should be solely concerned with just the buyer and seller. They both have an incentive to get the best deal. When a third party, suffers none of the consequences of the transaction, gets involved it always goes bad. Think about it:

When anybody purchases anything they are primarily looking at two things: price and quality. The lowest price for the highest quality. Say you want to buy a car, the market is full of choices competing for your dollars and only you can decide which best fits your needs. That's a first-party purchase. The person paying is the person using.

But then you have a situation where way you are buying something for someone else. In that case, you are very concerned about the price but a little more relaxed on the quality. You care about the price because you're paying for it but less so about the quality because you are not going to use it.

Then there's the situation where you are going to use something but you are not the one paying for it. Then you are concerned more about the quality because you are going to use it but not so much about the price because you are not paying for it.

Both of these are examples of second party purchases. The person paying is NOT the person using.

Then we have the situation where you are not the person paying nor are you the person using. Therefore, you are not as concern with either the price or quality. That's a third party purchase. A purchase made with money that's not yours to buy something that you are not going to use.

So, by definition, all government purchases are third party purchases. Thus, there will always be an inherent waste in government spending. Of course, there are things the government has to purchase, like for example, national defense. But the government should only do things that people can't do themselves.

Imagine if everybody were free to buy health care for themselves? Just like they buy their life, home, and car insurance. Now insurance companies and hospitals will be forced to compete for our business. Quality would go up and price would go down. I remember when Laser eye surgery use to cost around $2,500 per eye. Now you can get it as low as $500 with much better quality. Competition creates an incentive to lower cost and improve quality. That's just the way free enterprise competition works every time. Every damn time.

When the government gets involved cost goes up and waste and fraud go up. There is no incentive to decrease price because they are not paying, nor is there an incentive to increase quality because they are not the one using.








Its corruption boils down to big pharma.
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