Why do so many americans see universal healthcare as a radical idea?

[pellius]

Well, the problem is that our healthcare is far from number one--it's around #40 when ranked globally.  Not only that, but we pay far more for our healthcare than any other country.  Not to mention the millions and millions of Americans that are uninsured or underinsured.

Maybe we SHOULD start emulating the other countries that manage to deliver superior care for less money

Their are 39 other countries that provide better health care than we do? Can you prove this?

[Pray_4_War]

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.  If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan."



Don't trust these people.  It's going to cost much more that they promise, and the care will be way shittier than they promise.  They are habitual liars trying to separate you from your money. 

Don't be a fucking fool.

[falco]

Who will pay for universal healthcare? Mexicans?

[Ropo]

Universal health care is crap.Simple as that.If I have an issue I get in to the dr within a few days.I have family in Canada and to see a specialist takes months.Not that I go to the dr but my wife and kids do.BERNIE,Fucking sucks and should die a slow painful death.

As far as I’m concerned the USA is the only first world country.

So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes  

[AbrahamG]

So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes  

I agree with you and all the points you've made except for your disparaging remarks about Mr. RobCGuns.  He is a solid dude and I hope to one day overdose on THC edibles with him.  No homo.

[Primemuscle]

Medicaid and Medicare have been around for a long time. There continues to be many throughout time in the US (the very poor and the retired) who have benefited from free universal Healthcare and will continue to do so.

"1"

Medicare is a benefit. It is not free, however. The standard monthly premium will be $144.60 for 2020 for part B. The annual deductible for Medicare Part B is $198. About 7% of beneficiaries will pay extra from income-related adjustment amounts. Prescription drug (part D) are an additional cost. Medicaid comes closer to being free since only people who's incomes fall below 150% FPL don't pay premiums, everyone else does.

Although Part C coverage costs more than original Medicare, without a supplement or other coverage like Medigap insurance, original Medicare leaves a lot of coverage gaps that may leave you with medical bills that you’re unable to pay. Most people elect to enroll in Part C coverage to protect against these costly expenses.

If you elect to receive Part D coverage as part of original Medicare, you will pay your portion of the monthly premium. This varies depending on the plan you choose but the nationwide average for 2018 is $34 per month.

[Notomorrow]

Canada does it just fine. Partly because they have a moral law that bans pharmaceutical companies from direct advertising to the public. No "Ask your doctor about" bullshit. No other developed nation permits direct advertising of drugs to the public. It's immoral. Every major pharmaceutical company from Phizer to Merck spends more money on advertising than they do on research and development. The government puppets also allow Pharmaceutical giants to pay off companies to NOT make a generic version. They immorally extend patents when they expire so a generic can't come out. It's fine to scream at the little guy "Who's gonna pay for it?" Just make sure you scream at the big, immoral drug giants too.

[AbrahamG]

Canada does it just fine. Partly because they have a moral law that bans pharmaceutical companies from direct advertising to the public. No "Ask your doctor about" bullshit. No other developed nation permits direct advertising of drugs to the public. It's immoral. Every major pharmaceutical company from Phizer to Merck spends more money on advertising than they do on research and development. The government puppets also allow Pharmaceutical giants to pay off companies to NOT make a generic version. They immorally extend patents when they expire so a generic can't come out. It's fine to scream at the little guy "Who's gonna pay for it?" Just make sure you scream at the big, immoral drug giants too.

That is a very important point.  I've had people argue with me and defend insurance & pharmaceutical companies because of all the R&D they do.  To which I always say bullshit.  Insurance companies are bookies.  Plain and simple.

[Humble Narcissist]

Because who is going to pay for it? And service will have to rationed which means long waiting list.

Here is a principle that has never been violated. When the government takes control, whether it's education, housing, healthcare; they never make it better, cheaper, and more efficient. There are always an inherent waste in government spending. They don't have to show a profit like a private business. There is no accountability. Every time they overspend, which is every time, they just take more money from the taxpayers.

This.  If you don't like your doctor or health insurer you go get a different doctor or health insurer.  If the government runs the healthcare system you are stuck with what you are offered with no choice.  The government fucks up everything it touches because of no competition.

[Mr.1derful]

Seriously, every first world country has it.

Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.




Healthy population -> productive population.

My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.

Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).

Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!

How is Bern going to pay for it?  By raising taxes.  Universal healthcare does have some advantages, but it has downsides as well.  Within 1-2 generations, the level of care drops off with socialized medicine.  Come to Canada and see the ridiculous wait times for basic care, along with apathetic doctors that are clueless and don't give a shit, assuming you can even get a family doctor in the first place.

[Thin Lizzy]

People, especially Europeans, seem to think that the US system is free market. It’s not. It’s an intervened system. The primary characteristic of US healthcare is employer sponsored. This came about strictly as a result of a government intervention during World War II which capped wage rates. Companies started offering healthcare instead which was then made nontaxable. Heathcare costs started going up as a result of changed incentives for consumers and providers and a crowding out of individual plan options. It also created a need for Medicare as people who retired suddenly lost their healthcare. Seriously, why would want your employer in charge of your healthcare?

Bernie is right but has a solution which is more of what caused the problem in the first place. Every industry where the government has a big footprint cost are out of control. See education.

And if you want to tout Canada, feel free to explain why 50K Canadians a year come to the US for surgery.

At the end of the day you have two systems: Price and line.

You have line in Venezuela where the people had to eat zoo animals. In the US you have price (at least in some industries) where ghetto blacks and Hispanics as a group are the most obese people in the world.

[Tapeworm]

I'm on the fence. I find buying the quality of care you can afford to be repugnant and antithetical to democratic dignity and civilization that would advance beyond the law of the goddamn jungle. On the other hand is reality. Socialized medicine in Australia is a joke. If there's something bad going on you'll basically die in the queue if you opt to wait for government care.

[Thin Lizzy]

Another thing that would help would be to ease up on licensing requirements. You can’t create unlimited demand for healthcare and at the same place strict limitations on supply.

[Thin Lizzy]

So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes  

You can’t treat a geographically, racially and economically diverse country like the US as a monolith. For example there are some areas of the country that are the most dangerous in the world and some that have almost no crime.

[robcguns]

I agree with you and all the points you've made except for your disparaging remarks about Mr. RobCGuns.  He is a solid dude and I hope to one day overdose on THC edibles with him.  No homo.

Thank you kind sir.We shall do this soon.

[robcguns]

So you are an idiot, aren't you? If we take 300 million americans and 300 million europeans from the countries which has universal health care, those europeans are far more healthier than those americans, and that is a fact. There are quite a lot of statistics which prove it, so there is no reason to doubt this...if you aren't moron from USA. How about infant deaths by country- statistic? USA is same level as Chile, Bulgaria, Romania and Lebanon, six deaths per 1000 born child. In first world countries like Norway, Sweden, Japan, Estonia and Belarus, it is only 2 per 1000, in Finland 1/ 1000 born child. How about mortality rate for endocrine, nutritional, and metabolic diseases? USA 37 per 100 000, comparable country average 22. How about mortality rate for accidents, suicides and other external causes? USA 68 per 100 000, comparable country average 43. Mortality rate for diseases of the circulatory system? USA 257, others 215...get the picture? Your medical care is good, because its salesman say so. In the real world its rivals are countries like Romania, Lebanon etc. crapholes  

I will always say the USA is the best country in the world with the best everything as I believe it to be true. Simple as that.

[Matt]

Seriously, every first world country has it.

Just take a look at this map showing countries with Universal Healthcare.




Healthy population -> productive population.

My gf got a laparoscopy in a month after being diagnosed with calculi. We paid zero. In private clinics the cost was between $1500-2000.

Universal healthcare brings down the prices of private clinics (less demand -> lower prices).

Don't know about you, but I'd vote for Sanders if I had the chance. He may be a commie wannabe, but his proposals are taken for granted in most countries. FEEL THE BERN!!!

Every White country...is what you mean to say.

Our countries are vastly superior to the garbage bins of the world, and we don't particularly want to subsidize people who disproportionately consume social services, and will inevitably result in the complete eradication of those social services.

China, in its constitution, will not allow its nation to become non-Chinese.  Mexico has that in its constitution as well.

As Canada has become more diverse, the demand for private healthcare has increased.

Thank you for pointing to a big map showing the superiority of White-majority societies.

[el numero uno]

Every White country...is what you mean to say.

Our countries are vastly superior to the garbage bins of the world, and we don't particularly want to subsidize people who disproportionately consume social services, and will inevitably result in the complete eradication of those social services.

China, in its constitution, will not allow its nation to become non-Chinese.  Mexico has that in its constitution as well.

As Canada has become more diverse, the demand for private healthcare has increased.

Thank you for pointing to a big map showing the superiority of White-majority societies.

Hey idiot, you're canadian and Canada has universal healthcare.

Go bang your head on traffic lights poles.

[el numero uno]

People, especially Europeans, seem to think that the US system is free market. It’s not. It’s an intervened system. The primary characteristic of US healthcare is employer sponsored. This came about strictly as a result of a government intervention during World War II which capped wage rates. Companies started offering healthcare instead which was then made nontaxable. Heathcare costs started going up as a result of changed incentives for consumers and providers and a crowding out of individual plan options. It also created a need for Medicare as people who retired suddenly lost their healthcare. Seriously, why would want your employer in charge of your healthcare?

Bernie is right but has a solution which is more of what caused the problem in the first place. Every industry where the government has a big footprint cost are out of control. See education.

And if you want to tout Canada, feel free to explain why 50K Canadians a year come to the US for surgery.

Because 50k Canadians is 1 in 1000 and all of them are probably in the 99 percentile of richer Canadians?  

How is this even a question?

At the end of the day you have two systems: Price and line.

You have line in Venezuela where the people had to eat zoo animals. In the US you have price (at least in some industries) where ghetto blacks and Hispanics as a group are the most obese people in the world.

Nice fallacy there.

Every Marxist regime has Universal Healthcare, but not every regime with Universal Healthcare is Marxist.

If b is a subset of a, b doesn't equal a.

[ProudVirgin69]

Their are 39 other countries that provide better health care than we do? Can you prove this?

It shouldn't be surprising, a country that guarantees healthcare to its citizens should rank higher than the US almost by default.  

This paper by the WHO has the US ranked #37 in "healthcare system efficiency":
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

They measure efficiency by three factors: improvement in the health of the population, responsiveness to public health needs, and fairness in financing.  There are some that receive excellent, comprehensive healthcare in the US but there are many more that do not.  A Gallup poll indicated that 13.8% of Americans were uninsured in 4Q 2018--almost 1 out of 7 Americans.  As you might expect, being uninsured is associated with increased mortality and morbidity.  

The other major area in which we lag other countries is infant mortality.  We ranked 33rd out of the 36 OECD countries ranked, with 5.9 deaths/1000 births.  Iceland was ranked 1st with 0.7d/1000b.  Inabiliy to access healthcare during/after pregnancy is a significant risk factor for infant mortality, for obvious reasons.

[che]

American healthcare is a corrupt system.

Why a blood test cost $350 for insured patients and only $100  if you pay cash

I used to go to a chiropractor that charged me $45 per visit (with insurance ), $20 if you paid cash

[ProudVirgin69]

I could understand the desire to maintain the current system if Americans were getting superior care, but we cant even lay claim to that.  

[Ropo]

I will always say the USA is the best country in the world with the best everything as I believe it to be true. Simple as that.

So what? You know this by what? You haven't been anywhere else, and your intelligence is on the level, where you take salesman words as an absolute truth. USA must be best place on earth, because the salesman say so? It doesn't matter, you see, when you get this virus, you will be facing that superior health care, and see what it's all about. Just go and make sure that your insurance plan cover all what you will be needing..

[Ropo]

I could understand the desire to maintain the current system if Americans were getting superior care, but we cant even lay claim to that.  

You don't understand? Universal health care is pure communism, while fire departments, police, library etc. services paid from the taxation isn't. So simple..

[robcguns]

So what? You know this by what? You haven't been anywhere else, and your intelligence is on the level, where you take salesman words as an absolute truth. USA must be best place on earth, because the salesman say so? It doesn't matter, you see, when you get this virus, you will be facing that superior health care, and see what it's all about. Just go and make sure that your insurance plan cover all what you will be needing..

Find any country where the living is as good as the USA,Won’t happen.Health care seems pretty great to me.My father needed a valve replaced last month and they got him in in 2 weeks and it wasn’t an emergency they said.Id say that’s pretty damn good.