Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: pellius on September 09, 2020, 05:23:54 AM
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I never realized this until just a couple of days ago that skeletal muscle is only 20% protein. I knew that muscle, and the human body for that matter, was mostly water but would have though the actual muscle tissue was composed of much more amino acids than that. Makes you wonder how much protein your body actually needs for hypertrophy. I knew a guy from work, an older guy, about 69 years old when I knew him, that ate almost exclusively out of the vending machine. Usually Doritos and a Poweraide. Sometimes a burrito but he really liked chips. Doesn't eat breakfast and just frozen microwaveable stuff when he gets home. Sometimes he picks up two tacos from Taco Bell on his way home as he is on foot. He said he never cooks.I don't think he gets more than 30 grams of protein a day. And he has a very physical job. He's a custodian and is on his feet all day, sweeping, landscaping, collecting and taking out the trash, scrubbing and moping the bathrooms several times a day -- really busts his ass but he looks in great shape and healthy for his age.
He's the guy on my right.
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I think protein is way overrated, can’t see much sense in taking in more than 100 grams daily as a weightlifter.
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People can eat junk food all day in small quantities and not gain any weight, as long as they burn the calories off. He probably has a few vitamin and mineral deficiencies though.
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On this topic i will actually somewhat agree with pellious. I do believe protein is way over rated. Weider and all the other guys knew it was an easy sell because people knew muscle is meat and meat is protein etc. So they think if i eat more i will get more muscle (same with vitamins etc) So they pushed it and even today people still believe it. However its just not true. Protein needs are determined by alot of factors. One of which is how much muscle you actually have and if you are tearing muscle down via workouts or manual labor. Manual labor the body only tries to repair it back to normal since there hasnt been a huge demand of muscle breakdown ( like weight training)
Vince gironda suggested eating 20 0r 25 grams ( i could be mistaken could of been 20 or 30 grams) every 3 or 4 hours to keep amino acids higher for repair. If you notice the guys saying " i use 400 grams" a day USUALLY have a sponsor and they push their products. When rheo blair came out with his protein it wasnt so much the protein that made people grow it was the creme it was mixed with( high fat lots of calories) oh yes and the dianabol. lol. So its true i dont think most people need more than 100 to 150 grams a day. hell even the great sergio dieted on pepsi ( or coke) and i think oreos? serge nubret ate once a day ( horse meat) Bill pearl is a somewhat vegetarian and he built a good body ( of course steroids helped him too just as they have those before that i mentioned)
Will i stop taking so much protein? I did years ago and i honestly dont see any difference. However if i do to much hard work and i dont eat enough protein I do feel more exhausted and like i havent recuperated. ( but i am 56 so i guess i shouldnt still be doing so much lol) Mostt will still keep their intake high because of fear. Afraid if they lower it they will lose muscle or not grow. I get it. This isnt a post about convincing people to lower theirs its just an observation by pellious and i tend to agree
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I think protein is way overrated, can’t see much sense in taking in more than 100 grams daily as a weightlifter.
Not overrated, but IMO anything over 100g a day isn't going to help you build more muscle.
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You guys are hilarious.
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Joe Weider says you need a lot.
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no one need more than 100-150 grams of protein. No one that is using only AAS!
The thing is that besides a bunch of lies on this sport, you also have a lot of people trying very hard to be misguided.
Sometimes people just want to be lied to.
what really happens is that training only on AAS will put you in a very specific level (180-190 6%-7%), dose dependant only to a certain degree (2-3 gram total). Genetic response of course, but the top responder will have about 5-10lb more, and that's where it ends.
beyond that you will not become any bigger, no matter how much more gear you take, you will only play with water and fat.
that being said, you can figure that what makes and holds the muscle is the hormone intake, not the protein intake. You will end up in that 180-190lb no matter if ate 100g or 300gr along the road.
Beyond that you will only become bigger adding hgh, and when you add hgh is not like you HAVE to eat more protein (carbs and fats too) in order to grow, it is just that you NEED to eat a lot more otherwise you will just fade away, because then you body start needing the calorie intake.
But even then that doesn't mean you have to eat more 400g protein, you just end up adding more protein by default, since you eat more food chances are that they are rich in protein.
Now what we have? we have people that refuses to believe that and beg to be fooled. If you tell them about the hormone usage they wont believe you. But if you tell them to buy protein powders, eat 1lb of chicken breast per meal... somehow they believe this shit and start putting on fat that they latter cut and end up where they began. lol.
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You are pretty much spot on ghcard. And getting that protein from real food makes the difference as well. Plus the size of a person will determine the amount of calories needed to maintain that size or grow ( and drugs will too of course) But people believe what the mags and the "pros" sell them. oops i meant "tell" them. lol
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You are pretty much spot on ghcard. And getting that protein from real food makes the difference as well. Plus the size of a person will determine the amount of calories needed to maintain that size or grow ( and drugs will too of course) But people believe what the mags and the "pros" sell them. oops i meant "tell" them. lol
So whats an example of a daily diet plan for someone looking to retain muscle while getting leaner if not tons of protein? CARBS? FATS?
No way you're getting lean eating more carbs and fats
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So whats an example of a daily diet plan for someone looking to retain muscle while getting leaner if not tons of protein? CARBS? FATS?
No way you're getting lean eating more carbs and fats
Get leaner? Eat slightly under your daily calorie requirement and lose weight very slowly over several months while lifting weights. Losing some muscle is a given.
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Get leaner? Eat slightly under your daily calorie requirement and lose weight very slowly over several months while lifting weights. Losing some muscle is a given.
of carbs/fats? .. no you need tons of protein imo
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of carbs/fats? .. no you need tons of protein imo
Balanced diet is all you need with slight calorie deficit over time.
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guy who owns the gym I go was vegan, his only protein sources are a couple of eggs and 45gms protein shake at night, this last few months he has packed on 4st of muscle tissue, previously he was totally vegan and ate zero protein sources, one meal a day of a pile of steamed veg, he was 160lb.
He still only has the one meal of veg but has 2 boiled eggs with it and the shake at night
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Go to Cbass.com. Go to nutrition. Plenty of good research to read on the topic. https://www.cbass.com/Protein_Muscle.htm
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You never checked labels on meat in supermarkets? ???
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There is no magic to getting lean. Burn more than you take in. Period. Not drastically but say you eat 2000 calories but you burn 2300. You just got rid of 300 calories and hopefully its from fat. The body doesnt go into starvation mode and start burning muscle.( hopefully) But if you cut the calories to much the body will burn muscle for energy. And yes you can lose fat eating just carbs or just fat or just protein or a combination of them all. The "trick" is to just burn more than you eat. people are so mislead. watch the commercials now on tv. All about "protein" for energy etc or protein packed etc. Because people think they can eat alot of protein and not gain weight. Same way with keto. They think they can eat anything that has fat and not worry cuz they are doing keto and then they gain 20 lbs. LMAO. ( keto works great by the way but only when done properly and its not for everyone)
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Didn't someone once say that "a calorie is a calorie?"
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There is no magic to getting lean. Burn more than you take in. Period. Not drastically but say you eat 2000 calories but you burn 2300. You just got rid of 300 calories and hopefully its from fat. The body doesnt go into starvation mode and start burning muscle.( hopefully) But if you cut the calories to much the body will burn muscle for energy. And yes you can lose fat eating just carbs or just fat or just protein or a combination of them all. The "trick" is to just burn more than you eat. people are so mislead. watch the commercials now on tv. All about "protein" for energy etc or protein packed etc. Because people think they can eat alot of protein and not gain weight. Same way with keto. They think they can eat anything that has fat and not worry cuz they are doing keto and then they gain 20 lbs. LMAO. ( keto works great by the way but only when done properly and its not for everyone)
You are absolutely right, that's the way to get lean, burning more than you eat can put you in any bodyfat % you want.
I deeply apologize if I sound like a asshole, but when we go into the trouble of giving an answer I think we need to go a little further than that.
What I mean is that although this is the way to get lean we have to keep in mind that lean is not equal to shredded as in photoshoot ready, and I think that is the goal when someone try to get lean in bodybuilding terms.
Even though you can get to 7-8% merly eating less than you burn off, one thing that you have to know, that nobody seems to tell, is that you can and will! look like shit even at 7% if you don't know what the fuck are you doing.
Its far for being rocket science, but in order to look photoshoot shredded you need to know the best ratio for the macros, that works best for you and help you achieve the body composition you want.
You also have to know how to play with sodium, diuretics and stimulants like ephedrine.
No one can have that kind of look out of nowhere, even if lean you have to prepare yourself.
It is very common to see fellas walking around 8% looking like michelin man and disappointed on how they seem to never look good even if they are in a caloric deficit for 30weeks. They think that there is some kind of secret on how guys get prepared in 16 weeks, they think that getting shredded is some kind of magical knowledge or ability or god know what
Like you said, there is no magic, but to one be able to pull this off he need to have lots of trial and error under his belt, and I mean really trial, taking the time needed to really see what works for you.
The best one can look for is having the correct guidelines in different approaches, but there is no other way around than trial and error in your own body.
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You are absolutely right, that's the way to get lean, burning more than you eat can put you in any bodyfat % you want.
I deeply apologize if I sound like a asshole, but when we go into the trouble of giving an answer I think we need to go a little further than that.
What I mean is that although this is the way to get lean we have to keep in mind that lean is not equal to shredded as in photoshoot ready, and I think that is the goal when someone try to get lean in bodybuilding terms.
Even though you can get to 7-8% merly eating less than you burn off, one thing that you have to know, that nobody seems to tell, is that you can and will! look like shit even at 7% if you don't know what the fuck are you doing.
Its far for being rocket science, but in order to look photoshoot shredded you need to know the best ratio for the macros, that works best for you and help you achieve the body composition you want.
You also have to know how to play with sodium, diuretics and stimulants like ephedrine.
No one can have that kind of look out of nowhere, even if lean you have to prepare yourself.
It is very common to see fellas walking around 8% looking like michelin man and disappointed on how they seem to never look good even if they are in a caloric deficit for 30weeks. They think that there is some kind of secret on how guys get prepared in 16 weeks, they think that getting shredded is some kind of magical knowledge or ability or god know what
Like you said, there is no magic, but to one be able to pull this off he need to have lots of trial and error under his belt, and I mean really trial, taking the time needed to really see what works for you.
The best one can look for is having the correct guidelines in different approaches, but there is no other way around than trial and error in your own body.
Unless you are juicing you will never get ripped with any appreciable amount of muscle. Look at bodybuilders from the 1940's. The Mr. America and Mr. Universe winners were sitting on at least 10% bodyfat and some were 12-15%. These were the best in the world! Even Universe. ;D
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Unless you are juicing you will never get ripped with any appreciable amount of muscle. Look at bodybuilders from the 1940's. The Mr. America and Mr. Universe winners were sitting on at least 10% bodyfat and some were 12-15%. These were the best in the world! Even Universe. ;D
Truth. If you are natty and diet down to low bf% you will look like you escaped Auschwitz. It's idiotic for judges to demand very low bf% in natty contests.
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guy who owns the gym I go was vegan, his only protein sources are a couple of eggs and 45gms protein shake at night, this last few months he has packed on 4st of muscle tissue, previously he was totally vegan and ate zero protein sources, one meal a day of a pile of steamed veg, he was 160lb.
He still only has the one meal of veg but has 2 boiled eggs with it and the shake at night
A stone is 14lbs right? So, this guy gains 56 lbs of muscle eating a plate of veggies, a shake and 2 eggs? And what is he on?
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U need atleast 200 gram protein if over 200
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U need atleast 200 gram protein if over 200
That's what uncle Joe said so you would buy his protein supplements.
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People can eat junk food all day in small quantities and not gain any weight, as long as they burn the calories off. He probably has a few vitamin and mineral deficiencies though.
As I said, doesn't eat much. Doritos and Poweraide for lunch, two tacos and a Coke from Taco Bell for dinner. I'm sure he has some vitamin deficiencies but, for this topic, it's how does he maintain muscle mass with so little protein considering he has a very physically active job. That why it calls into question do we really need as much protein as we are led to believe. I mean, how much protein does a 500 lb gorilla get being mostly herbivores with the occasion treat of termites and ants.
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uncanny
(https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5d38c026347b0e000865de67/master/pass/Jordan-MadMagazine-1.jpg)
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uncanny
(https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5d38c026347b0e000865de67/master/pass/Jordan-MadMagazine-1.jpg)
Have you posted a recent pic?
I thought so.
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Lots of guys say you don't need more than 100 grams or whatever, and I have maintained muscle on ridiculously low amounts of protein.
But think about this hypothetical situation: you have free access to every drug you would want. You are offered 1 million dollars for every pound of muscle you put on over the next 6 months, bodyfat percentage is of no concern. Would you eat only 100 grams of protein a day? If not, how much would you eat? I know I would eat a ton of protein and a ton of calories overall.
There is a bunch of scientific data on protein needs nowadays and 100 grams is not much over what the average person needs to just optimally maintain health. I think it's about .8 grams per kg/day. Does it really make sense that extra protein is useless for someone training hard, stressing his body with catabolic exercise and trying to gain more muscle? One interesting thing about protein is how the anabolic response to a bolus of protein goes down as you age. About 20 grams is enough to maximally stimulate protein synthesis but interestingly someone over 60 or 70, I forget which, needs 40 grams for the same response. So not only is the anabolic response lowered but you can make up for it by increasing the dose.
Here's an example of a paper on protein needs of athletes. Yes you might say the data is incorrect, there must be some bias by the authors, but if you care to read it you might think otherwise. Or not. Check it out:
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0177-8
Another thing that I suspect, is that some might underestimate their protein intake if they aren't OCD about tracking everything like a competitive bb might do. We know reported food intakes are notoriously incorrect when people self-report their intakes. Either under- or overreporting. So if some muscular dude says he eats only 80 grams it might be as incorrect as Victor Richards saying he ate 15 or 30K calories per day.
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This vid just came out and I actually watched the whole thing. Jay said that not only do bbers over eat, it's the major cause of health problems (I in a way agree because just being so big is unhealthy) but that they eat too much protein. He claims he was more of a "carbohydrate guy".
Of course, what he considers not enough or too much is much different than most people. I remember the stories where he claimed to eat as much a ten times a day and would get up in the middle of the night to eat.
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This vid jsut came out and I actually watched the whole thing. Jay said that not only to bbers over eat, it's the major cause of health problems (I in a way agree because just being so big is unhealthy) but that they eat too much protein. He claims he was more of a "carbohydrate guy".
Of course, what he considers not enough or too much is much different than most people. I remember the stories where he claimed to eat as much a ten times a day and would get up in the middle of the night to eat.
Haha yes. Didn't watch yet but Jay was eating 60 pieces of Sushi in a sitting and things like that. Low protein my ass :D
I remember when Nasser claimed to have been eating 80 grams of protein in the off-season and when Chad was asked to comment he just laughed and said Nasser could/would eat, he would eat that in a single meal. Of course Nasser claimed to have increased his protein to 600 grams on prep, Milos claimed his advice to Nasser to increase protein a lot along with insulin is what caused his insane gains when he became a top contender. Milos adviced 500 grams but Nasser did 600.
Lots of people feel high insulin is what causes health problems and faster aging, like I remember The Coach saying. I don't think it's that simple, lots of things contribute to that, like tons of food period, not just carbs.
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Graduate broscience but still broscience!
I read nutrition text books 60 years ago and concluded I didn't need that much more protein. The extra to what you can use is converted into energy. Very expensive way to get calories.
As we age we need protein for skin, hair and nails. So I might increase my protein somewhat nowadays.
My point is this: what is the test of truth for what you believe re protein requirement? This tread is pure anecdotal reports.
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Graduate broscience but still broscience!
I read nutrition text books 60 years ago and concluded I didn't need that much more protein. The extra to what you can use is converted into energy. Very expensive way to get calories.
As we age we need protein for skin, hair and nails. So I might increase my protein somewhat nowadays.
My point is this: what is the test of truth for what you believe re protein requirement? This tread is pure anecdotal reports.
Why would you need more protein when older for skin, hair and nails?
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Haha yes. Didn't watch yet but Jay was eating 60 pieces of Sushi in a sitting and things like that. Low protein my ass :D
I remember when Nasser claimed to have been eating 80 grams of protein in the off-season and when Chad was asked to comment he just laughed and said Nasser could/would eat, he would eat that in a single meal. Of course Nasser claimed to have increased his protein to 600 grams on prep, Milos claimed his advice to Nasser to increase protein a lot along with insulin is what caused his insane gains when he became a top contender. Milos adviced 500 grams but Nasser did 600.
Lots of people feel high insulin is what causes health problems and faster aging, like I remember The Coach saying. I don't think it's that simple, lots of things contribute to that, like tons of food period, not just carbs.
I saw a video about what brekfast Jay always ate. Jay wasn't even aware of the macros of the full meal. But his friend/filmer Dave counted it to be 120grams protein just in that brekfast alone.
Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.
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Why would you need more protein when older for skin, hair and nails?
Wait and see!
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Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.
Statements like this = complete conjecture. The fact that most bodybuilders take heaps of protein isn't proof that they need 500 plus grams/day.
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Statements like this = complete conjecture. The fact that most bodybuilders take heaps of protein isn't proof that they need 500 plus grams/day.
That wasnt my statement alone. Fact is steroids increase protein synthesis and building muscle by alot. You should know being into bb for 50+ years.
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I saw a video about what brekfast Jay always ate. Jay wasn't even aware of the macros of the full meal. But his friend/filmer Dave counted it to be 120grams protein just in that brekfast alone.
Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.
You gave the answer that converges to what I said earlier, but it seems that you and most guys are unable to see the answer you already know but fails to get it.
Read again my other post and read again your first paragraph.
pay close attention to this part in specific:
"Beyond that you will only become bigger adding hgh, and when you add hgh is not like you HAVE to eat more protein (carbs and fats too) in order to grow, it is just that you NEED to eat a lot more otherwise you will just fade away, because then you body start needing the calorie intake.
But even then that doesn't mean you have to eat more 400g protein, you just end up adding more protein by default, since you eat more food chances are that they are rich in protein."
Like you see, you said it yourself, Jay could not care less about his protein intake, it just happens that on massive doses of GH and slin, he simply HAVE TO EAT.
He didn't woke up in the middle of the night to eat because he thought it would be fun to have a little more protein.. he did it so because probably he was hungry as fuck due to massive GH dosage and couldn't sleep.
For sure at the end of the day he probably ate more than 300-400g of protein. But that's is just a consequence of having to eat like a pig due to his massive gh intake.
There is no benefit in eating that way, what everybody think is a holy gift to be able to eat like a pig on GH in reality is a terrible side effect once it becomes your job to do massive amounts.
It could be fun for the gym rat that uses 5ui so he can live a normal life eating what he wants, but nothing is really fun once it turns becomes your job to do it.
That being said, like a said earlier, the gym rat only on ASS will end up with the same amount of lean mass if he ate 100 or 300g along the way... Because like I said, once you hit those 180-190lb 7% on AAS only... you can eat 1000g of protein, you will only shit it or get fat my friend...
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Graduate broscience but still broscience!
I read nutrition text books 60 years ago and concluded I didn't need that much more protein. The extra to what you can use is converted into energy. Very expensive way to get calories.
As we age we need protein for skin, hair and nails. So I might increase my protein somewhat nowadays.
My point is this: what is the test of truth for what you believe re protein requirement? This tread is pure anecdotal reports.
It's fine and proper to question things. But you act like you yourself aren't subject to biases. We see this all the time from you, you love science or "science" when it agrees with your biases and you always see bias in the research when it goes against your beliefs. it's always this, "what is the test of truth for what you believe" wrt to drugs or training. In this case you think the science from 60 years ago is more correct. Fine, whatever. You also have the DOMS theory, which is very theoretical to say the least, but then you question everyone else's suspicions or beliefs even when they have more ground to stand on.
We do have a lot of anecdotal reports and they can't be totally dismissed, you would go nowhere in any area if you waited for some absolute proof of anything. One thing that is interesting, is when you you look at the natural bodybuilders, or "natural" bodybuilders, is how they get in insane shape following this new science of high protein during prep as well as tracking calorie intakes very precisely unlike in the past, generally doing thing pretty "scientifically". They are small but get so ripped, which no one in your generation did, not one bb had ripped glutes and christmas trees like almost any of the more well known bbers do nowadays. Protein is more expensive yes, but it also doesn't seem to hurt to overshoot this macro a bit. I would rather take in a bit of excess protein than the reverse, but that's just me.
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That's you in the red shirt? I thought you were bald or had a crew cut.
Or was that someone else in the photo on the beach? I probably got you mixed up with someone else.
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I saw a video about what brekfast Jay always ate. Jay wasn't even aware of the macros of the full meal. But his friend/filmer Dave counted it to be 120grams protein just in that brekfast alone.
Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.
Yes, it makes sense. But on the other hand you can get away with less protein too if you're on roids and peptides. Steroids increase amino acid recycling and all these drugs reduce catabolism. So in that sense the drugs allow you to make more mistakes. I have taken 6 or 8 months off the gym a couple of times while continuing to take a baseline level of test and a few other things like gh secretagogues, and like in this moment of time, people can't even tell I haven't trained once in 2020 (just started last week). One coworker told me I looked like I had trained a lot during my summer 4 week vacation when I had spent the whole time on my ass or in bed, didn't even walk Lol. Have eaten less than 80 grams of protein a day, not even eating at all 1or even 2 days a week sometimes. It's amazing what a little androgens does for muscle retention.
I remember Tom Platz saying roids allow you to make a lot of mistakes and he's right.
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That's you in the red shirt? I thought you were bald or had a crew cut.
Or was that someone else in the photo on the beach? I probably got you mixed up with someone else.
That's him. Forearms look really jacked and vascular.
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Thats it.... I'm getting shredded on 1800 Kcal of Twinkies since all I need is to eat less than maintenance
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Wait and see!
Are you saying old people have higher protein needs than everyone else for hair, skin and nails?
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means nothing I guess but...
Every single person I've ever met in my life who was <10% bodyfat, ate 200g+ of protein per day, minimal carbs, tons of veggies divided up 5-7 meals and rotated calories between under and over their daily expenditure + doing tons of empty stomach cardio and looked amazing despite their genetics.
Every single person I've met who tried to get lean but were over 15%+ body fat, ate 2-3x per day, zone style diet, healthy balanced meals, no cardio (they said they'd lose muscle) but ate under maintenance every day and either had the "bloofy" or "skinny fat" look depending on their genetics.
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means nothing I guess but...
Every single person I've ever met in my life who was <10% bodyfat, ate 200g+ of protein per day, minimal carbs, tons of veggies divided up 5-7 meals and rotated calories between under and over their daily expenditure + doing tons of empty stomach cardio and looked amazing despite their genetics.
Every single person I've met who tried to get lean but were over 15%+ body fat, ate 2-3x per day, zone style diet, healthy balanced meals, no cardio (they said they'd lose muscle) but ate under maintenance every day and either had the "bloofy" or "skinny fat" look depending on their genetics.
Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.
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Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.
agreed but not my point..... all cases in the above scenario I posted were all doing the same.... both on stuff.
only difference between all of them was their diet, calories didn't matter.. frequency of eating and tons of protein mattered
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agreed but not my point..... all cases in the above scenario I posted were all doing the same.... both on stuff.
only difference between all of them was their diet, calories didn't matter.. frequency of eating and tons of protein mattered
So, you aren't a fan of intermittent fasting diets?
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Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.
I agree. People think they are 10% but they would be shocked what they actually are if they were weighed underwater as in hydrostatic weighing. Those electronic scales are notoriously inaccurate. I can get on the scale then do it an hour later and have two very different readings. Did I go up 2% in fat in an hour?
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I agree. People think they are 10% but they would be shocked what they actually are if they were weighed underwater as in hydrostatic weighing. Those electronic scales are notoriously inaccurate. I can get on the scale then do it an hour later and have two very different readings. Did I go up 2% in fat in an hour?
:D Slow metabolism.
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So, you aren't a fan of intermittent fasting diets?
no way.. never unless its a water fast for health reasons.
IF is pure shit for getting lean... and yes.. leads to a slower metabolism 100%
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no way.. never unless its a water fast for health reasons.
IF is pure shit for getting lean... and yes.. leads to a slower metabolism 100%
I did IF for a full year including 6 months of 1 meal a day and I got pretty lean. Joe Rogan seems to like it as does Megan Fox.
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I did IF for a full year including 6 months of 1 meal a day and I got pretty lean. Joe Rogan seems to like it as does Megan Fox.
Leanest i've ever been was doing IF for 5 months. I don't find it very sustainable, but damn i got ripped as hell so quickly it was insane. I did two medium sized meals a day in a period of about 8 hours. Lots of coffee in the morning and very little cardio. As long as i spaced out my meals correctly i felt fine. I'm not sure i'd do it again, but it works for getting lean.
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Congratulations Pellius! Getbig Man of the Year!
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Leanest i've ever been was doing IF for 5 months. I don't find it very sustainable, but damn i got ripped as hell so quickly it was insane. I did two medium sized meals a day in a period of about 8 hours. Lots of coffee in the morning and very little cardio. As long as i spaced out my meals correctly i felt fine. I'm not sure i'd do it again, but it works for getting lean.
I intermittent fast every day for 8 hours while I'm sleeping..lol
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Pellius, you should do 'DNA Sport Test' you'll get many infos about body composition !.
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means nothing I guess but...
Every single person I've ever met in my life who was <10% bodyfat, ate 200g+ of protein per day, minimal carbs, tons of veggies divided up 5-7 meals and rotated calories between under and over their daily expenditure + doing tons of empty stomach cardio and looked amazing despite their genetics.
Every single person I've met who tried to get lean but were over 15%+ body fat, ate 2-3x per day, zone style diet, healthy balanced meals, no cardio (they said they'd lose muscle) but ate under maintenance every day and either had the "bloofy" or "skinny fat" look depending on their genetics.
I concur. High protein while in calorie debt is essential.
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Pellius, you should do 'DNA Sport Test' you'll get many infos about body composition !.
And where do you actually get a DNA Sport Test, the cost, and what will it tell me? I don't, and never really cared, about what body fat percentage, body weight, or height someone claims or I claim. If you look like a short fatso then you're a short fatso and whatever numbers you claim is meaningless
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Congratulations Pellius! Getbig Man of the Year!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=668271.0;attach=1272227;image)
Vince, as per our agreement, I will let this one offense past and continue to honor our past agreement for a truce. Are you sure you want to start up with me again and start posting photoshop pictures?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=668271.0;attach=1271189;image)
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It's fine and proper to question things. But you act like you yourself aren't subject to biases. We see this all the time from you, you love science or "science" when it agrees with your biases and you always see bias in the research when it goes against your beliefs. it's always this, "what is the test of truth for what you believe" wrt to drugs or training. In this case you think the science from 60 years ago is more correct. Fine, whatever. You also have the DOMS theory, which is very theoretical to say the least, but then you question everyone else's suspicions or beliefs even when they have more ground to stand on.
We do have a lot of anecdotal reports and they can't be totally dismissed, you would go nowhere in any area if you waited for some absolute proof of anything. One thing that is interesting, is when you you look at the natural bodybuilders, or "natural" bodybuilders, is how they get in insane shape following this new science of high protein during prep as well as tracking calorie intakes very precisely unlike in the past, generally doing thing pretty "scientifically". They are small but get so ripped, which no one in your generation did, not one bb had ripped glutes and christmas trees like almost any of the more well known bbers do nowadays. Protein is more expensive yes, but it also doesn't seem to hurt to overshoot this macro a bit. I would rather take in a bit of excess protein than the reverse, but that's just me.
Vince has always ignored current studies, in which there are many, that conflicts with his bias. He always mocks others for acting or speaking as experts when none do. Not a single person here has ever claimed to be an expert. They present their points and invite others to comment and critique. Only Vince has explicitly stated that he is a "Hypertrophy Expert". A claim in which their is no objective or official evidence presented. Just his opinion. That hypocrisy, and the arrogance in which it is presented, is what is so off-putting to most people here.
These are just two, of the many out there, scientific studies from widely recognized and credible sources. And then we are asked by Vince that you have to keep a muscle under a continuous state of DOMS because he claims he, one subject, put on so much size (presumably muscle but still not clear) on his arms. Something he can't prove nor can he duplicate despite his claim that age is no hindrance to increasing muscle mass.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28656141/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26817506/
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Vince, as per our agreement, I will let this one offense past and continue to honor our past agreement for a truce. Are you sure you want to start up with me against and start posting photoshop pictures?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=668271.0;attach=1271189;image)
Lol. No offence meant. Just having a go at editing. Made you look much younger.
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That's you in the red shirt? I thought you were bald or had a crew cut.
Or was that someone else in the photo on the beach? I probably got you mixed up with someone else.
I have posted pics of myself on the beach. I was never bald. I often cut my hair short especially when I was with the DOD as my division worked closely with the military.
During my kick-ass anti-Communist days during the Reagan/Bush years I always wore a crew cut.
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Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.
Not really, go to any hood in your area late afternoon and check out the public basketball courts. You'll see random nigs, both men and woman, looking pretty jacked and ripped when all they live on is Popeyes and Pepsi and the only exercise they get is some b-ball and running from the Popo.
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agreed but not my point..... all cases in the above scenario I posted were all doing the same.... both on stuff.
only difference between all of them was their diet, calories didn't matter.. frequency of eating and tons of protein mattered
genetics is what mattered.
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genetics is what mattered.
if you poor 1 scoop of protein into a cup of water it is considered 100% protein. wouldn't muscle be the same?
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Lol. No offence meant. Just having a go at editing. Made you look much younger.
I've been tempted to make some jokes as well but considering our history and the truce mutually agreed upon I thought it best to leave well enough alone and not test the waters or push the envelope. And I'm 59 years old in that picture. Compared to what most people that age look like I'm not too overly concerned with looking too old for my age and need photo touch ups.
Jon Bon Jovi 58 years old
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB18NAcF.img?h=375&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f)
Milos Sarcev 56 years old
(https://generationiron.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Milos-Sarcev-Diuretics-FB.jpg)
Cal Ripken 60 years old
(https://res.cloudinary.com/nrpadev/image/upload/f_auto,q_70/Cal-Ripken-blog-410.jpg)
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if you poor 1 scoop of protein into a cup of water it is considered 100% protein. wouldn't muscle be the same?
The water doesn't count? Maybe the powder can be pure protein. And if it's 20 grams of protein it will still be 20 grams whether it's a cup or a gallon. Would you still think the same if you had to drink a cup versus a gallon? But wouldn't you say that there is a difference in composition if that 20 grams was in a cup of water or in a swimming pool?
Say, I had a cup of water and right next to it a scoop of protein. Now you have two distinct things. One is 100% water and the other 100% protein. If I combine the two distinct items does it now become just 100% protein?
Obviously water counts, it is obvious in the case of muscle as in advance bbing and getting on stage, the days, hours and often minutes before that time, it all becomes a matter of water retention.
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Vince has always ignored current studies, in which there are many, that conflicts with his bias. He always mocks others for acting or speaking as experts when none do. Not a single person here has ever claimed to be an expert. They present their points and invite others to comment and critique. Only Vince has explicitly stated that he is a "Hypertrophy Expert". A claim in which their is no objective or official evidence presented. Just his opinion. That hypocrisy, and the arrogance in which it is presented, is what is so off-putting to most people here.
These are just two, of the many out there, scientific studies from widely recognized and credible sources. And then we are asked by Vince that you have to keep a muscle under a continuous state of DOMS because he claims he, one subject, put on so much size (presumably muscle but still not clear) on his arms. Something he can't prove nor can he duplicate despite his claim that age is no hindrance to increasing muscle mass.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28656141/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26817506/
Well, who else on Getbig has offered a theory of hypertrophy? I never said one has to keep a muscle sore to grow. What I said was that might be a short cut to rapid growth. It worked for me. Nowadays it isn't so easy to train hard and often enough to get and stay sore and hence, grow rapidly. At best one stays the same which is okay when you are 78 in 10 days.
I have studied the philosophy of science at the graduate level so have some idea about conjectures and refutations. So far no one on Getbig has refuted my theory.
Van B has challenged me often in the past. He has presented nothing new re hypertrophy yet criticises what I present.
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Well, who else on Getbig has offered a theory of hypertrophy? I never said one has to keep a muscle sore to grow. What I said was that might be a short cut to rapid growth. It worked for me. Nowadays it isn't so easy to train hard and often enough to get and stay sore and hence, grow rapidly. At best one stays the same which is okay when you are 78 in 10 days.
I have studied the philosophy of science at the graduate level so have some idea about conjectures and refutations. So far no one on Getbig has refuted my theory.
Van B has challenged me often in the past. He has presented nothing new re hypertrophy yet criticises what I present.
You're not saying that you need to keep a muscle sore to grow but soreness might be a shortcut to rapid growth?
Claiming that a lack of refutation for a theory which you've never elucidated constitutes proof that the never clearly posited theory is correct...well.
Maybe it is correct. It would be nice if you finally told us clearly, plainly, and precisely what this famous theory is.
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I've been tempted to make some jokes as well but considering our history and the truce mutually agreed upon I thought it best to leave well enough alone and not test the waters or push the envelope. And I'm 59 years old in that picture. Compared to what most people that age look like I'm not too overly concerned with looking too old for my age and need photo touch ups.
We all have to laugh at ourselves at times. I made you younger so that the image resembled the Mad cover posted earlier.
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You're not saying that you need to keep a muscle sore to grow but soreness might be a shortcut to rapid growth?
Claiming that a lack of refutation for a theory which you've never elucidated constitutes proof that the never clearly posited theory is correct...well.
Maybe it is correct. It would be nice if you finally told us clearly, plainly, and precisely what this famous theory is.
There are two articles in Ironman magazine that were published in 2000 and 2001 that outline what I claim. I will see if I can find them.
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Alright but I haven't got all day.
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Pellius is robot man posing as a getbig troll ,looks like a modern frankenstein
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You're not saying that you need to keep a muscle sore to grow but soreness might be a shortcut to rapid growth?
Claiming that a lack of refutation for a theory which you've never elucidated constitutes proof that the never clearly posited theory is correct...well.
Maybe it is correct. It would be nice if you finally told us clearly, plainly, and precisely what this famous theory is.
Pellius, Van B and I debated protein and hypertrophy here on Getbig.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=634737.0
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Pellius, Van B and I debated protein and hypertrophy here on Getbig.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=634737.0
any discoveries by basil belong to basilicata
All exercise incursions are muted by lack of simplification and turn into a comedy central soap opera skit
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Alright but I haven't got all day.
Found one article I wrote for Ironman Magazine.
https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/max-muscle-tension/
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Well, who else on Getbig has offered a theory of hypertrophy? I never said one has to keep a muscle sore to grow. What I said was that might be a short cut to rapid growth. It worked for me. Nowadays it isn't so easy to train hard and often enough to get and stay sore and hence, grow rapidly. At best one stays the same which is okay when you are 78 in 10 days.
I have studied the philosophy of science at the graduate level so have some idea about conjectures and refutations. So far no one on Getbig has refuted my theory.
Van B has challenged me often in the past. He has presented nothing new re hypertrophy yet criticises what I present.
Jeeze man, this board is full of people offering their views and theories regarding resistance training.
If Van B criticizes and questions all aspects of training, drugs, and nutrition. It is you Vince that has been saying the same old thing for decades. And to be clear, Van hasn't criticize your views per se, just the way you present it and yourself. He questions your methods as you say it with such certainty though it is devoid of any proof or evidence.
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You're not saying that you need to keep a muscle sore to grow but soreness might be a shortcut to rapid growth?
Claiming that a lack of refutation for a theory which you've never elucidated constitutes proof that the never clearly posited theory is correct...well.
Maybe it is correct. It would be nice if you finally told us clearly, plainly, and precisely what this famous theory is.
Actually he does say that you have to keep muscles sore. To train them before they are fully recovered. My beliefs are actually very similar except for this one specific point. I believe a muscle shouldn't be trained unless it is completely recovered. And I proved it with my calves. Not just full recovery but progressive intensity which is the hard and tricky part. Trying to find new ways to increase stress and intensity within the muscle itself. Again, concrete proof.
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Actually he does say that you have to keep muscles sore. To train them before they are fully recovered. My beliefs are actually very similar except for this one specific point. I believe a muscle shouldn't be trained unless it is completely recovered. And I proved it with my calves. Not just full recovery but progressive intensity which is the hard and tricky part. Trying to find new ways to increase stress and intensity within the muscle itself. Again, concrete proof.
I forgot, everyone is an expert on Getbig...even on my theories!
You can grow without getting significant DOMS. However, for more rapid growth then keeping the muscle sore helps. That way you don't encounter the Repeated Bout Effect.
This theory is easy to test but few on Getbig have bothered. They are so convinced about their beliefs that they refuse to accept that someone else might have something to contribute to them.
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Pellius amazed everyone on Ironage with his calves. He wrote as Mark Twain. Now my challenge to Pellius is to try my DOMS method on his arms for one month and see what happens.
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Fat intake is more important than protein.
Over-con-sumption of latter may be even toxic.
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Pellius amazed everyone on Ironage with his calves. He wrote as Mark Twain. Now my challenge to Pellius is to try my DOMS method on his arms for one month and see what happens.
I don't have the will or motivation to get my arms bigger at this point in my life. I have even less motivation to do something to prove your theories. I have a better idea, why don't YOU try your own method for a month and see what happens? I mean, don't you think you have more of an incentive than I do? Don't you think you will have more "quality control" for lack of a better term to insure the procedures performed properly. If I do the experiment and it is not successful you can always claim that I didn't eat enough, I didn't really train according to prescribed protocol, didn't get enough sleep, didn't supinate.
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I don't have the will or motivation to get my arms bigger at this point in my life. I have even less motivation to do something to prove your theories. I have a better idea, why don't YOU try your own method for a month and see what happens? I mean, don't you think you have more of an incentive than I do? Don't you think you will have more "quality control" for lack of a better term to insure the procedures performed properly. If I do the experiment and it is not successful you can always claim that I didn't eat enough, I didn't really train according to prescribed protocol, didn't get enough sleep, didn't supinate.
Don't throw the towel in so fast. One of my beliefs is hypertrophy can be beneficial in old age. My triceps are bigger now and stronger than when I was in my prime in the seventies. How about that?
Instead of destroying your body through martial arts build yourself up and impress everyone. Put an inch on your arms and I will buy you all you can eat at McDonalds! :)
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Don't throw the towel in so fast. One of my beliefs is hypertrophy can be beneficial in old age. My triceps are bigger now and stronger than when I was in my prime in the seventies. How about that?
Instead of destroying your body through martial arts build yourself up and impress everyone. Put an inch on your arms and I will buy you all you can eat at McDonalds! :)
Do you presently have any safety fat on your stubby, little cock?
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Do you presently have any safety fat on your stubby, little cock?
Post of the year! You forgot to add...NO HOMO!
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Don't throw the towel in so fast. One of my beliefs is hypertrophy can be beneficial in old age. My triceps are bigger now and stronger than when I was in my prime in the seventies. How about that?
Instead of destroying your body through martial arts build yourself up and impress everyone. Put an inch on your arms and I will buy you all you can eat at McDonalds! :)
I can say the same to you. Do the experiment yourself. It's just arms FFS. Limit it to just biceps. A tiny muscle group.
Nothing impresses GetBig.
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I can say the same to you. Do the experiment yourself. It's just arms FFS. Limit it to just biceps. A tiny muscle group.
Nothing impresses GetBig.
I have been training arms for a while now. Trouble is I end up training once a week. I keep telling myself I am going to train twice a week but I put the second workout off. I procrastinate. Why? Well my workouts are quite heavy and I am up to doing that heavy lifting only once a week. That isn't sufficient for more hypertrophy. So I have been staying the same for the last 9 months or so. Arms around 18 inches but seldom over. I tore my right biceps in 1977 doing a 510 pound deadlift so I can't train biceps that heavy.
I might set up a few of my calf machines and have a go with calves. I am sure I can train them more frequently. I have 6 calf machines. I made 5 of them plus a Cybex standing heel raise.
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I have trained arms only for the last couple months using a program similar to what you advised years ago and have made good gains. Surprisingly, the rest of the body has not changed much, if any at all.
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Hey in the first pic of you and the other homeless guy i gotta ask. Where is your sign you both have been holding? You know the one that says "homeless and hungry. please help". Also you show a pic of what appears to be a polio victim and then a pic of someones calf ( with no face ) How many years was it between pictures? No date ? From now on when you want to try to show people use something with a current date on it like a newspaper or something and also show your face so people can say ok thats the dweeb who thinks he knows it all. I have said my piece on this and now im done. I wont post on this post again nor will i read it. So go ahead keep on wasting your time.
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I have posted pics of myself on the beach. I was never bald. I often cut my hair short especially when I was with the DOD as my division worked closely with the military.
During my kick-ass anti-Communist days during the Reagan/Bush years I always wore a crew cut.
Ok, that looks familiar
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Hey in the first pic of you and the other homeless guy i gotta ask. Where is your sign you both have been holding? You know the one that says "homeless and hungry. please help". Also you show a pic of what appears to be a polio victim and then a pic of someones calf ( with no face ) How many years was it between pictures? No date ? From now on when you want to try to show people use something with a current date on it like a newspaper or something and also show your face so people can say ok thats the dweeb who thinks he knows it all. I have said my piece on this and now im done. I wont post on this post again nor will i read it. So go ahead keep on wasting your time.
Dear God! You really have no idea how dumb you sound and how dumb you are! There are many years between those pics. That's the point dumb dumb. That I was able to bring up my calves, a muscle group few can improve upon, something you've never done and couldn't do, by using the principles of Jones and Mentzer. And again you just can't believe it's me and every pic has to be full length face pic with a newspaper. The irony coming from someone who is too ashamed and cowardly to post a pic himself. A fat phag that hides behind a computer screen like the cowardly little bitch you are. The classic pussified modern male that is killing this country.
Vince, do you see what kind of morons I have to deal with? The kind of morons we all have to put up with? People so dumb that they really have no idea how dumb they are. And he keeps saying how he is done but can't help himself and keeps coming back for more abuse. It is just getting sad now.
But at least I taught him how to use upper case letters at the start of a sentence. This guy is in his mid fifties and finally he learned something the rest of us did in the first grade.
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I have posted pics of myself on the beach. I was never bald. I often cut my hair short especially when I was with the DOD as my division worked closely with the military.
During my kick-ass anti-Communist days during the Reagan/Bush years I always wore a crew cut.
You should go back to that look. No homo.
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16 almonds a day is all you need. No more, no less.
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And where do you actually get a DNA Sport Test, the cost, and what will it tell me? I don't, and never really cared, about what body fat percentage, body weight, or height someone claims or I claim. If you look like a short fatso then you're a short fatso and whatever numbers you claim is meaningless
In some Honolulu/Hilo sports institute !?. Local costs ?.
They go into bone density & many other details, trainings,lenghts of trainings, body chemicals :P) etc.
Local GP knows zilch about modern sports medicine or yours DNA testing .
I was tested at the Australian Sports Institute in Canberra !.
Gene doping is the future !.
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You should go back to that look. No homo.
I would if I could go back a few decades.
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16 almonds a day is all you need. No more, no less.
Fuck, Ive been eating 13 a day for months.Will add 3 to hit 16 now.
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Fuck, Ive been eating 13 a day for months.Will add 3 to hit 16 now.
I would up it to 19 per day for the same amount of time you'd been doing 13. Then drop down to 16.
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I have posted pics of myself on the beach. I was never bald. I often cut my hair short especially when I was with the DOD as my division worked closely with the military.
During my kick-ass anti-Communist days during the Reagan/Bush years I always wore a crew cut.
Look awesome with that haircut mate, should Still wear it like that
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Look awesome with that haircut mate, should Still wear it like that
That's an old pic when I was with Raytheon Missile Systems. I was about 20 pounds heavier back then. Those were the days when I was competing in BJJ and Submission Wrestling and trained like a maniac all the time. Just compare neck size. I have a pencil neck now.
I'm sixty years old now and there is no way I can keep the pace I did back in those days. Now it's just trying to avoid having a heart attack and getting a decent boner.
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That's an old pic when I was with Raytheon Missile Systems. I was about 20 pounds heavier back then. Those were the days when I was competing in BJJ and Submission Wrestling and trained like a maniac all the time. Just compare neck size. I have a pencil neck now.
I'm sixty years old now and there is no way I can keep the pace I did back in those days. Now it's just trying to avoid having a heart attack and getting a decent boner.
I didn’t know you were 60 mate I knew you were older than you look but I thought Very early 50s, What you doing is working mate.
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On the original post subject best thing I did (for lifestyle reasons not physique) was stop giving a shit about protein, it’s a fucking ball ache having to worry about how much protein is in shit and basing meals around getting enough in, I understand if training for competition ect this is important but for just training and enjoying life fuck that, typical work day for me is nothing for breakfast, couple of sandwiches and a few bags of crisps for dinner then whatever the mrs makes for tea, I’ll drink a few pints of whole milk and snack on crisps over the evening and sometimes Have a few bits of toast before bed but only once or twice a week, this is enough to sustain training and working a very physical job
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I didn’t know you were 60 mate I knew you were older than you look but I thought Very early 50s, What you doing is working mate.
All fish oil and Klingon Tai Chi.
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On the original post subject best thing I did (for lifestyle reasons not physique) was stop giving a shit about protein, it’s a fucking ball ache having to worry about how much protein is in shit and basing meals around getting enough in, I understand if training for competition ect this is important but for just training and enjoying life fuck that, typical work day for me is nothing for breakfast, couple of sandwiches and a few bags of crisps for dinner then whatever the mrs makes for tea, I’ll drink a few pints of whole milk and snack on crisps over the evening and sometimes Have a few bits of toast before bed but only once or twice a week, this is enough to sustain training and working a very physical job
Don't forget the occasional "take away".
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Don't forget the occasional "take away".
Haha get a take away chinkies religiously ever Saturday mate