How much is skeletal muscle compose of protein

[MAXX]

uncanny

[pellius]

uncanny

Have you posted a recent pic?

I thought so.

[Van_Bilderass]

Lots of guys say you don't need more than 100 grams or whatever, and I have maintained muscle on ridiculously low amounts of protein.
But think about this hypothetical situation: you have free access to every drug you would want. You are offered 1 million dollars for every pound of muscle you put on over the next 6 months, bodyfat percentage is of no concern. Would you eat only 100 grams of protein a day? If not, how much would you eat? I know I would eat a ton of protein and a ton of calories overall.
 
There is a bunch of scientific data on protein needs nowadays and 100 grams is not much over what the average person needs to just optimally maintain health. I think it's about .8 grams per kg/day. Does it really make sense that extra protein is useless for someone training hard, stressing his body with catabolic exercise and trying to gain more muscle? One interesting thing about protein is how the anabolic response to a bolus of protein goes down as you age. About 20 grams is enough to maximally stimulate protein  synthesis but interestingly someone over 60 or 70, I forget which, needs 40 grams for the same response. So not only is the anabolic response lowered but you can make up for it by increasing the dose.

Here's an example of a paper on protein needs of athletes. Yes you might say the data is incorrect, there must be some bias by the authors,  but if you care to read it you might think otherwise. Or not. Check it out:
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0177-8

Another thing that I suspect, is that some might underestimate their protein intake if they aren't OCD about tracking everything like a competitive bb might do. We know reported food intakes are notoriously incorrect when people self-report their intakes. Either under- or overreporting. So if some muscular dude says he eats only 80 grams it might be as incorrect as Victor Richards saying he ate 15 or 30K calories per day.

[pellius]

This vid just came out and I actually watched the whole thing. Jay said that not only do bbers over eat, it's the major cause of health problems (I in a way agree because just being so big is unhealthy) but that they eat too much protein. He claims he was more of a "carbohydrate guy".

Of course, what he considers not enough or too much is much different than most people. I remember the stories where he claimed to eat as much a ten times a day and would get up in the middle of the night to eat.

[Van_Bilderass]

This vid jsut came out and I actually watched the whole thing. Jay said that not only to bbers over eat, it's the major cause of health problems (I in a way agree because just being so big is unhealthy) but that they eat too much protein. He claims he was more of a "carbohydrate guy".

Of course, what he considers not enough or too much is much different than most people. I remember the stories where he claimed to eat as much a ten times a day and would get up in the middle of the night to eat.

Haha yes. Didn't watch yet but Jay was eating 60 pieces of Sushi in a sitting and things like that. Low protein my ass

I remember when Nasser claimed to have been eating 80 grams of protein in the off-season and when Chad was asked to comment he just laughed and said Nasser could/would eat, he  would eat that in a single meal. Of course Nasser claimed to have increased his protein to 600 grams on prep, Milos claimed his advice to Nasser to increase protein a lot along with insulin is what caused his insane gains when he became a top contender. Milos adviced 500 grams but Nasser did 600.

Lots of people feel high insulin is what causes health problems and faster aging, like I remember The Coach saying. I don't think it's that simple, lots of things contribute to that, like tons of food period, not just carbs.

[Vince B]

Graduate broscience but still broscience!

I read nutrition text books 60 years ago and concluded I didn't need that much more protein. The extra to what you can use is converted into energy. Very expensive way to get calories.

As we age we need protein for skin, hair and nails. So I might increase my protein somewhat nowadays.

My point is this: what is the test of truth for what you believe re protein requirement? This tread is pure anecdotal reports.

[Humble Narcissist]

Graduate broscience but still broscience!

I read nutrition text books 60 years ago and concluded I didn't need that much more protein. The extra to what you can use is converted into energy. Very expensive way to get calories.

As we age we need protein for skin, hair and nails. So I might increase my protein somewhat nowadays.

My point is this: what is the test of truth for what you believe re protein requirement? This tread is pure anecdotal reports.

Why would you need more protein when older for skin, hair and nails?

[MAXX]

Haha yes. Didn't watch yet but Jay was eating 60 pieces of Sushi in a sitting and things like that. Low protein my ass

I remember when Nasser claimed to have been eating 80 grams of protein in the off-season and when Chad was asked to comment he just laughed and said Nasser could/would eat, he  would eat that in a single meal. Of course Nasser claimed to have increased his protein to 600 grams on prep, Milos claimed his advice to Nasser to increase protein a lot along with insulin is what caused his insane gains when he became a top contender. Milos adviced 500 grams but Nasser did 600.

Lots of people feel high insulin is what causes health problems and faster aging, like I remember The Coach saying. I don't think it's that simple, lots of things contribute to that, like tons of food period, not just carbs.

I saw a video about what brekfast Jay always ate. Jay wasn't even aware of the macros of the full meal. But his friend/filmer Dave counted it to be 120grams protein just in that brekfast alone.

Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.

[Vince B]

Why would you need more protein when older for skin, hair and nails?

Wait and see!

[Vince B]

Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.

Statements like this = complete conjecture. The fact that most bodybuilders take heaps of protein isn't proof that they need 500 plus grams/day.

[MAXX]

Statements like this = complete conjecture. The fact that most bodybuilders take heaps of protein isn't proof that they need 500 plus grams/day.

That wasnt my statement alone. Fact is steroids increase protein synthesis and building muscle by alot. You should know being into bb for 50+ years.

[ghcard]

I saw a video about what brekfast Jay always ate. Jay wasn't even aware of the macros of the full meal. But his friend/filmer Dave counted it to be 120grams protein just in that brekfast alone.

Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.

You gave the answer that converges to what I said earlier, but it seems that you and most guys are unable to see the answer you already know but fails to get it.

Read again my other post and read again your first paragraph.

pay close attention to this part in specific:

"Beyond that you will only become bigger adding hgh, and when you add hgh is not like you HAVE to eat more protein (carbs and fats too) in order to grow, it is just that you NEED to eat a lot more otherwise you will just fade away, because then you body start needing the calorie intake.
But even then that doesn't mean you have to eat more 400g protein, you just end up adding more protein by default, since you eat more food chances are that they are rich in protein."

Like you see, you said it yourself, Jay could not care less about his protein intake, it just happens that on massive doses of GH and slin, he simply HAVE TO EAT.

He didn't woke up in the middle of the night to eat because he thought it would be fun to have a little more protein.. he did it so because probably he was hungry as fuck due to massive GH dosage and couldn't sleep.

For sure at the end of the day he probably ate more than 300-400g of protein. But that's is just a consequence of having to eat like a pig due to his massive gh intake.

There is no benefit in eating that way, what everybody think is a holy gift to be able to eat like a pig on GH in reality is a terrible side effect once it becomes your job to do massive amounts.

It could be fun for the gym rat that uses 5ui so he can live a normal life eating what he wants, but nothing is really fun once it turns becomes your job to do it.

That being said, like a said earlier, the gym rat only on ASS will end up with the same amount of lean mass if he ate 100 or 300g along the way... Because like I said, once you hit those 180-190lb 7% on AAS only... you can eat 1000g of protein, you will only shit it or get fat my friend...

[Van_Bilderass]

Graduate broscience but still broscience!

I read nutrition text books 60 years ago and concluded I didn't need that much more protein. The extra to what you can use is converted into energy. Very expensive way to get calories.

As we age we need protein for skin, hair and nails. So I might increase my protein somewhat nowadays.

My point is this: what is the test of truth for what you believe re protein requirement? This tread is pure anecdotal reports.

It's fine and proper to question things. But you act like you yourself aren't subject to biases. We see this all the time from you, you love science or "science" when it agrees with your biases and you always see bias in the research when it goes against your beliefs. it's always this, "what is the test of truth for what you believe" wrt to drugs or training. In this case you think the science from 60 years ago is more correct. Fine, whatever. You also have the DOMS theory, which is very theoretical to say the least, but then you question everyone else's suspicions or beliefs even when they have more ground to stand on.

We do have a lot of anecdotal reports and they can't be totally dismissed, you would go nowhere in any area if you waited for some absolute proof of anything. One thing that is interesting, is when you you look at the natural bodybuilders, or "natural" bodybuilders, is how they get in insane shape following this new science of high protein during prep as well as tracking calorie intakes very precisely unlike in the past, generally doing thing pretty "scientifically". They are small but get so ripped, which no one in your generation did, not one bb had ripped glutes and christmas trees like almost any of the more well known bbers do nowadays. Protein is more expensive yes, but it also doesn't seem to hurt to overshoot this macro a bit. I would rather take in a bit of excess protein than the reverse, but that's just me.

[LurkerNoMore]

That's you in the red shirt?  I thought you were bald or had a crew cut.
Or was that someone else in the photo on the beach?  I probably got you mixed up with someone else.

[Van_Bilderass]

I saw a video about what brekfast Jay always ate. Jay wasn't even aware of the macros of the full meal. But his friend/filmer Dave counted it to be 120grams protein just in that brekfast alone.

Most pro bb's are probably at 500+ grams protein. With all the steroids they do why would that be hard to believe. The protein synthesis is probably 4x of a normal man.

Yes, it makes sense. But on the other hand you can get away with less protein too if you're on roids and peptides. Steroids increase amino acid recycling and all these drugs reduce catabolism. So in that sense the drugs allow you to make more mistakes. I have taken 6 or 8 months off the gym a couple of times while continuing to take a baseline level of test and a few other things like gh secretagogues, and like in this moment of time, people can't even tell I haven't trained once in 2020 (just started last week). One coworker told me I looked like I had trained a lot during my summer 4 week vacation when I had spent the whole time on my ass or in bed, didn't even walk Lol. Have eaten less than 80 grams of protein a day, not even eating at all 1or even 2 days a week sometimes. It's amazing what a little androgens does for muscle retention.
I remember Tom Platz saying roids allow you to make a lot of mistakes and he's right.

[Van_Bilderass]

That's you in the red shirt?  I thought you were bald or had a crew cut.
Or was that someone else in the photo on the beach?  I probably got you mixed up with someone else.

That's him. Forearms look really jacked and vascular.

[TheGrinch]

Thats it.... I'm getting shredded on 1800 Kcal of Twinkies since all I need is to eat less than maintenance

[Humble Narcissist]

Wait and see!

Are you saying old people have higher protein needs than everyone else for hair, skin and nails?

[TheGrinch]

means nothing I guess but...

Every single person I've ever met in my life who was <10% bodyfat,  ate 200g+ of protein per day, minimal carbs, tons of veggies divided up 5-7 meals and rotated calories between under and over their daily expenditure + doing tons of empty stomach cardio and looked amazing despite their genetics.

Every single person I've met who tried to get lean but were over 15%+ body fat, ate 2-3x per day, zone style diet, healthy balanced meals, no cardio (they said they'd lose muscle) but ate under maintenance every day and either had the "bloofy" or "skinny fat" look depending on their genetics.

[Humble Narcissist]

means nothing I guess but...

Every single person I've ever met in my life who was <10% bodyfat,  ate 200g+ of protein per day, minimal carbs, tons of veggies divided up 5-7 meals and rotated calories between under and over their daily expenditure + doing tons of empty stomach cardio and looked amazing despite their genetics.

Every single person I've met who tried to get lean but were over 15%+ body fat, ate 2-3x per day, zone style diet, healthy balanced meals, no cardio (they said they'd lose muscle) but ate under maintenance every day and either had the "bloofy" or "skinny fat" look depending on their genetics.

Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.

[TheGrinch]

Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.

agreed but not my point..... all cases in the above scenario I posted were all doing the same.... both on stuff.

only difference between all of them was their diet, calories didn't matter.. frequency of eating and tons of protein mattered

[Humble Narcissist]

agreed but not my point..... all cases in the above scenario I posted were all doing the same.... both on stuff.

only difference between all of them was their diet, calories didn't matter.. frequency of eating and tons of protein mattered

So, you aren't a fan of intermittent fasting diets?

[oldtimer1]

Getting under 10% bodyfat will emaciate a person unless they are using gear.

I agree. People think they are 10% but they would be shocked what they actually are if they were weighed underwater as in hydrostatic weighing.  Those electronic scales are notoriously inaccurate. I can get on the scale then do it an hour later and have two very different readings. Did I go up 2% in fat in an hour?

[Humble Narcissist]

I agree. People think they are 10% but they would be shocked what they actually are if they were weighed underwater as in hydrostatic weighing.  Those electronic scales are notoriously inaccurate. I can get on the scale then do it an hour later and have two very different readings. Did I go up 2% in fat in an hour?

  Slow metabolism.

[TheGrinch]

So, you aren't a fan of intermittent fasting diets?

no way.. never unless its a water fast for health reasons.

IF is pure shit for getting lean... and yes.. leads to a slower metabolism 100%