Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: joswift on October 13, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
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This guy speaks so much sense, his anatomy knowledge is great.
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I would like to see his forehead routine.
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Not the Doug I used to know. Now he’s two faced and pretentious
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Not the Doug I used to know. Now he’s two faced and pretentious
he speaks very highly of you.
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This guy speaks so much sense, his anatomy knowledge is great.
You know, I just stumbled across one of his videos just yesterday with Palumbo. He explains a lot of misunderstandings very clearly and in a way that makes sense. Like this long standing notion that leg extensions are bad for your knees and causes "shearing". Also, how squats are not the be all end all for quad development. Going through the mechanics of the bench press also explained a lot of thing I instinctively knew but didn't think through.
After watching that. Probably the only Palumbo episode I get through to the end, I brought up Doug's name on YouTube and see that he was a ton of stuff out there. So I have one saved that I'm going to watch next and it just happens to be the one you have posted here.
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You know, I just stumbled across one of his videos just yesterday with Palumbo. He explains a lot of misunderstandings very clearly and in a way that makes sense. Like this long standing notion that leg extensions are bad for your knees and causes "shearing". Also, how squats are not the be all end all for quad development. Going through the mechanics of the bench press also explained a lot of thing I instinctively knew but didn't think through.
After watching that. Probably the only Palumbo episode I get through to the end, I brought up Doug's name on YouTube and see that he was a ton of stuff out there. So I have one saved that I'm going to watch next and it just happens to be the one you have posted here.
this for me is the best myth buster
&t=504s
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Not the Doug I used to know. Now he’s two faced and pretentious
Why is that? How is he "two faced"? I remember him back in the 1980s and like his type of physique. It was along the Zane and Richard Baldwin lines and appealed to me more as it seem more attainable. I remember J.J. Marsh was training at the gym I worked at and at that time they were at similar levels competing at the same shows. He told me that he always would invite "Brigno" as he use to call him, to train with him and that Doug would never follow through. He said it like he thought Doug was afraid or chickened out training with Marsh. I just thought, "Maybe he just doesn't want to train with you and have to do the workout you want and just stick to what works for him." Of course, Marsh would by pass him and get on the Olympia stage. Doug had a very pleasing physique but he wasn't going to make it in the pro ranks.
I have just seen one video of him and he doesn't strike me as pretentious but just very enthusiastic about bbing.
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this for me is the best myth buster
&t=504s
Thanks! I will definitely check this out. This is more along the lines of what I'm interested in as it pertains to bbing. After decades of this shit you just get tired of the same old workout routines replayed over and over again. I like when people actually try to think through what is going on and actually back it up with science and common sense.
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I've listened to him and it's mainly bro-science.
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I've listened to him and it's mainly bro-science.
muscles pull in a straight line from insertion point to insertion point... thats science, not bro science.
Try moving your arm out forward in a straight line like you would bench press, then press downwards to your hip and feel the difference in the contraction in your pec and tell me hes wrong...
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Why is that? How is he "two faced"? I remember him back in the 1980s and like his type of physique. It was along the Zane and Richard Baldwin lines and appealed to me more as it seem more attainable. I remember J.J. Marsh was training at the gym I worked at and at that time they were at similar levels competing at the same shows. He told me that he always would invite "Brigno" as he use to call him, to train with him and that Doug would never follow through. He said it like he thought Doug was afraid or chickened out training with Marsh. I just thought, "Maybe he just doesn't want to train with you and have to do the workout you want and just stick to what works for him." Of course, Marsh would by pass him and get on the Olympia stage. Doug had a very pleasing physique but he wasn't going to make it in the pro ranks.
I have just seen one video of him and he doesn't strike me as pretentious but just very enthusiastic about bbing.
I’m not taking anything away from Dougs physique. I’ve known Doug since we were teenagers training at Bill Pearls Pasadena Gym, trained together, hung out, I trained at his gym in Pasadena when he opened it. Lost contact for many years and reconnected on Facebook. Had some great conversations about when trained about training, etc.
Then I hooked up with Joe Wheatley who made myself and my wife judges (and sponsors) at the Muscle Beach contests and Doug was on the judging panel. Long story short, he changed a lot since we were kids. Very self centered, came off as somewhat of a know it all, and acts like he doesn’t even know you...or me. Aside from losing this year at Muscle Beach, this would have been my fourth year there. Regardless of that, there are about 3 other people on the panel that feel the same. He thinks his shit don’t stink. Not a humble guy. After I won the Cal last year, the Monday after I won there was a Muscle Beach show that Memorial Day. I was a trophy presenter, introduced to the crowd as winning the Cal a couple of days before and not so much as a handshake from him.
Maybe a little butthurt coming from someone who I thought was a friend but it is what it is. So it’s a little personal
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I met Doug at the 2011 North Americas or MastersNats.....not quite sure,real nice guy IMO and was always an admirer of his physique.
Talked to him for about an hour or so while we waited backstage.
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muscles pull in a straight line from insertion point to insertion point... thats science, not bro science.
Try moving your arm out forward in a straight line like you would bench press, then press downwards to your hip and feel the difference in the contraction in your pec and tell me hes wrong...
And what is new or revolutionary about this?
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And what is new or revolutionary about this?
tell that to everyone doing incline bench press for their upper pecs, that sir is bro science.
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tell that to everyone doing incline bench press for their upper pecs, that sir is bro science.
Primates never did overhead presses?
Nonsense.
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tell that to everyone doing incline bench press for their upper pecs, that sir is bro science.
https://exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ChestWt#Clavicular
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His training looks like something a little girl might do, probably fitting for 90% of GetBig.
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His training looks like something a little girl might do, probably fitting for 90% of GetBig.
;D
Come down "Melissa".
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;D
Come down "Melissa".
:D
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I've listened to him and it's mainly bro-science.
Lmfao!
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I’m not taking anything away from Dougs physique. I’ve known Doug since we were teenagers training at Bill Pearls Pasadena Gym, trained together, hung out, I trained at his gym in Pasadena when he opened it. Lost contact for many years and reconnected on Facebook. Had some great conversations about when trained about training, etc.
Then I hooked up with Joe Wheatley who made myself and my wife judges (and sponsors) at the Muscle Beach contests and Doug was on the judging panel. Long story short, he changed a lot since we were kids. Very self centered, came off as somewhat of a know it all, and acts like he doesn’t even know you...or me. Aside from losing this year at Muscle Beach, this would have been my fourth year there. Regardless of that, there are about 3 other people on the panel that feel the same. He thinks his shit don’t stink. Not a humble guy. After I won the Cal last year, the Monday after I won there was a Muscle Beach show that Memorial Day. I was a trophy presenter, introduced to the crowd as winning the Cal a couple of days before and not so much as a handshake from him.
Maybe a little butthurt coming from someone who I thought was a friend but it is what it is. So it’s a little personal
Brutal if true
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tell that to everyone doing incline bench press for their upper pecs, that sir is bro science.
The irony of all ironies is that incline bench press is 80% front delts and after a while of doing this exercise bodybuilders develop super strong front delts and then they wonder why their chest development is lagging, smh
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The irony of all ironies is that incline bench press is 80% front delts and after a while of doing this exercise bodybuilders develop super strong front delts and then they wonder why their chest development is lagging, smh
Depends on the angle of the incline.
Use 30 degrees.
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Dug Bungholes and Dic Drainin - just 2 dudes hangin' out...
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https://exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ChestWt#Clavicular
thanks for proving my point
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Depends on the angle of the incline.
Use 30 degrees.
if you want to fully contract your pecs where do you put your hands, are they over your head out vertical our clasped in front of you down by your waist?
That should tell you the best exercises for pecs
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Depends on the angle of the incline.
Use 30 degrees.
Another irony is that most bodybuilders don't really lag upper chest that much, what they truly lack is LOWER chest. Look at all bodybuilders who were known for having a massive chest, they ALL had a ton of lower chest mass
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Another irony is that most bodybuilders don't really lag upper chest that much, what they truly lack is LOWER chest. Look at all bodybuilders who were known for having a massive chest, they ALL had a ton of lower chest mass
Build up your lower chest. Then when your older you'll have tits.
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Build up your lower chest. Then when your older you'll have tits.
Worked for Bruce Jenner.
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Build up your lower chest. Then when your older you'll have tits.
Do you seriously think you can build different parts of your chest?
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Do you seriously think you can build different parts of your chest?
Of course.
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Of course.
;D
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Do you seriously think you can build different parts of your chest?
The sternal and clavicular heads of the pectoralis major share a lot of the same functions but differ in some movements. So yes, you can
https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/how-to-develop-a-mans-pectorals-with-strength-training-exercises
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Can you affect different parts of the quads with certain exercises?
Yes, you can.
Biceps? Triceps? Back? Calves?
Yes, you can.
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I've listened to him and it's mainly bro-science.
What specifically has he said that you consider "bro-science"?
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I watched a little of the back training video, sounds reasonable.
This fella has good posts regarding anatomy
https://instagram.com/coach_kassem?igshid=1o2gm6i0b2znq
Has made me rethink some things. Like you don't want to arch your back when biasing the lats during pulls, not pulling arms beyond the midline on rows, not pinning down the scapula on back or chest exercises, the importance of stability and proper set-up, being aware of your "active range" and so on.
Seems like he is helping Jordan Peters lately
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The sternal and clavicular heads of the pectoralis major share a lot of the same functions but differ in some movements. So yes, you can
https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/how-to-develop-a-mans-pectorals-with-strength-training-exercises
you can hit less of the muscle by doing inclines, but a decline hits all of the muscle , so if you want to waste time you can do lots of incline press or stick to decline and get full development
The pecs are a downward pushing muscle
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Can you affect different parts of the quads with certain exercises?
Yes, you can.
Biceps? Triceps? Back? Calves?
Yes, you can.
If you are talking about "circular" type of joints such as the shoulders and neck then, yes. If you are talking about bend/straighten leverage joints then, no. By changing the angle you can work different portions of the delts and in some cases totally excluding a part of that muscle from the movement. For example, doing a rear delt movement will practically if not completely eliminate any contraction of the front delt.
When doing a curl, training the bicep, which simply involves moving the forearm towards the shoulder, meaning you can cut off your hand and still train your bicep fully. No matter what angle you place your arm in or how you twist you forearm the entire bicep will contract. You can't just train and specialize a certain part of that muscle. You can turn your forearm into a position where you will work the brachialis more and take some of the load off the bicep but if you think you can train the upper/low inner/outer head and think it will make any difference that would be incorrect.
People believe it, they try it, it never works. If your biceps naturally peak like Beckles, Coe, and Robinson then it doesn't matter what part of the bicep head you train? If it doesn't, you can do anything you want, like Kevin Levrone did, and still not have peak biceps.
Same like with calfs and quads. You are not going to get any more "inner calf" or hit that vastus medialis (tear drop) muscle by positioning or spacing out your toes or
feet. As your muscles get bigger and stronger the shape they take is genetically predetermined. I once read Boyer Cole's quad routine and he said that by taking a narrown stance he would hit the outer quad more. He never had any appreciable outer quad development though he had pretty good legs.
Don't believe me, try what Brignole did and specialize in whatever specific area you want and just to that for six months.
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you can hit less of the muscle by doing inclines, but a decline hits all of the muscle , so if you want to waste time you can do lots of incline press or stick to decline and get full development
The pecs are a downward pushing muscle
I remember resisting an armbar being applied by a 16 year old kid, Gabriel Vella. I was in my mid thirties and I'll never forget it. I did want to tap so I didn't get my arm dislocated but I tore my upper pec. I knew it was the upper pec by how it felt and where the bruising was.
When my doctor would test my strength and range of motion during therapy he would always have me lie flat, extend my right arm to the side completely perpendicular to my body, meaning my hand, forearm, upper arm, shoulder, and neck would form a straight line. The he would have me raise my hand keeping that angel across my body stopping when my straight arm would be pointing in front. I asked him if I should do more of an incline angle to more isolate the upper pec. He replied that once your upper arm gets above shoulder level then it's more of the front delt that is doing the motion. I stated playing with different angles when flexing and notice that when I brought my hands/arms directly in front of me or in a slight incline positon and tried to contract my pecs I really couldn't feel anything. When I would bring them down and contracted them like when doing a most muscular then it was all pecs.
This is Gabriel Vella, I'm sure he has no idea who I am but I'll never forget him. I wasn't going to a tap to a 16 year old. What an idiot I was. BTW, some old timers might remember his father, former Brasilian body builder Luis Freitas. Who was at that time, late 1990,s a fat but still very huge and muscular chiropractor in Redondo Beach, CA.
(https://www.bjjheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Gabriel-Vella.jpg)
(https://musclemecca.com/imported-images/2008/12/11247605591512og2-1.jpg)
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Vince Gironda gives his opinion.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/26/7e/bf267eb4f7f92b2dc7b0af006d0b9580.jpg)
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Is there a different effect on the quads if you do back squats vs. front squats vs. hack squats?
Is there a different effect on the back if you do lat pulldowns vs. bent over barbell rows vs. deadlifts?
Is there a different effect on the calves if you do donkey calf raises vs. seated calf raises?
Is there a different effect on the triceps if you do seated overhead presses vs. tricep cable pushdowns?
Will you look like Arnold if you work out like Arnold?
Will doing concentration curls give you a peak like Albert Beckles?
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Is there a different effect on the quads if you do back squats vs. front squats vs. hack squats?
Is there a different effect on the back if you do lat pulldowns vs. bent over barbell rows vs. deadlifts?
Is there a different effect on the calves if you do donkey calf raises vs. seated calf raises?
Is there a different effect on the triceps if you do seated overhead presses vs. tricep cable pushdowns?
Will you look like Arnold if you work out like Arnold?
Will doing concentration curls give you a peak like Albert Beckles?
yes, do hacks with your toes point ing out for a great outer quad sweep you daft twat.
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yes, do hacks with your toes point ing out for a great outer quad sweep you daft twat.
(https://sayswhosays.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/paulie.gif)
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you can hit less of the muscle by doing inclines, but a decline hits all of the muscle , so if you want to waste time you can do lots of incline press or stick to decline and get full development
The pecs are a downward pushing muscle
"The clavicular head also has another function: when the upper arm is flexed to around 110 degrees (slightly higher than parallel to the ground), it flexes and adducts the upper arm (raises toward the midline of the body)."
Ergo, the clavicular portion is not strictly a "downward pushing muscle"
You said you couldn't build different parts of your chest. You actually can.
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If you train like Steve Reeves will you become good looking?
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On a serious note, the exercises you do can affect the way your muscles develop according to your own potential.
You are not going to develop biceps like Larry Scott by doing preacher curls if you don't have similar muscle insertions and genetics.
You are not going to develop a chest like Arnold by following his routine.
You will develop according to your own potential.
This does not mean doing certain exercises will not cause different effects.
Certain exercises can be better at achieving certain things.
Take four variations of the press:
Overhead press
Incline press
Flat press
Decline press
They are all presses. The only difference is the angle.
Which one is best? If all you do is overhead presses will your chest develop as well as someone doing flat presses?
How about the reverse? Will doing only flat presses improve the shoulders, traps, upper back as well as doing only overhead presses?
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On a serious note, the exercises you do can affect the way your muscles develop according to your own potential.
You are not going to develop biceps like Larry Scott by doing preacher curls if you don't have similar muscle insertions and genetics.
You are not going to develop a chest like Arnold by following his routine.
You will develop according to your own potential.
This does not mean doing certain exercises will not cause different effects.
Certain exercises can be better at achieving certain things.
Take four variations of the press:
Overhead press
Incline press
Flat press
Decline press
They are all presses. The only difference is the angle.
Which one is best? If all you do is overhead presses will your chest develop as well as someone doing flat presses?
How about the reverse? Will doing only flat presses improve the shoulders, traps, upper back as well as doing only flat presses?
Doing different exercises at different angles will have different effects on your body and the muscles but not in the way the muscles developed. For example, doing pushups versus doing tricep pushdowns will effect the body differently. With pushups you will be including the pecs and front delts more than the pushdowns which will primarily focus on the triceps but it will not have any effect on THE WAY your triceps develop. Just like hacks will more isolate your quads more than the squats you won't change the way your quads develop.
Most muscle contract completely when performing it's function. So you can't focus on upper quad or lower quad. The whole quad is going to working no matter the angle or exercise. I remember watching one of those infomercials where a guy was talking about targeting the upper, lower, and side glute. He had all these exercises you had to do to get maximum glute developement.
But there are exceptions because some muscles move in various directions such as the shoulders, so in that case you can isolate different parts of the shoulders. The traps are another one because it both raises your shoulders to your ears (your upper traps) and it also draws your shoulders and scapula back like when you stick out your chest and pinch your shoulders back. That will focus on the lower part or mid back of the traps and has a separate function than lifting the shoulders to your ears. Mike Mentzer had very good upper traps but also non-existent lower trap and his mid back looked hollow.
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I remember resisting an armbar being applied by a 16 year old kid, Gabriel Vella. I was in my mid thirties and I'll never forget it. I did want to tap so I didn't get my arm dislocated but I tore my upper pec. I knew it was the upper pec by how it felt and where the bruising was.
When my doctor would test my strength and range of motion during therapy he would always have me lie flat, extend my right arm to the side completely perpendicular to my body, meaning my hand, forearm, upper arm, shoulder, and neck would form a straight line. The he would have me raise my hand keeping that angel across my body stopping when my straight arm would be pointing in front. I asked him if I should do more of an incline angle to more isolate the upper pec. He replied that once your upper arm gets above shoulder level then it's more of the front delt that is doing the motion. I stated playing with different angles when flexing and notice that when I brought my hands/arms directly in front of me or in a slight incline positon and tried to contract my pecs I really couldn't feel anything. When I would bring them down and contracted them like when doing a most muscular then it was all pecs.
This is Gabriel Vella, I'm sure he has no idea who I am but I'll never forget him. I wasn't going to a tap to a 16 year old. What an idiot I was. BTW, some old timers might remember his father, former Brasilian body builder Luis Freitas. Who was at that time, late 1990,s a fat but still very huge and muscular chiropractor in Redondo Beach, CA.
(https://www.bjjheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Gabriel-Vella.jpg)
(https://musclemecca.com/imported-images/2008/12/11247605591512og2-1.jpg)
Yes, I met Luis Freitas back in the late '80's or early '90's when he first became a pro.
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Doing different exercises at different angles will have different effects on your body and the muscles but not in the way the muscles developed. For example, doing pushups versus doing tricep pushdowns will effect the body differently. With pushups you will be including the pecs and front delts more than the pushdowns which will primarily focus on the triceps but it will not have any effect on THE WAY your triceps develop. Just like hacks will more isolate your quads more than the squats you won't change the way your quads develop.
Most muscle contract completely when performing it's function. So you can't focus on upper quad or lower quad. The whole quad is going to working no matter the angle or exercise. I remember watching one of those infomercials where a guy was talking about targeting the upper, lower, and side glute. He had all these exercises you had to do to get maximum glute developement.
But there are exceptions because some muscles move in various directions such as the shoulders, so in that case you can isolate different parts of the shoulders. The traps are another one because it both raises your shoulders to your ears (your upper traps) and it also draws your shoulders and scapula back like when you stick out your chest and pinch your shoulders back. That will focus on the lower part or mid back of the traps and has a separate function than lifting the shoulders to your ears. Mike Mentzer had very good upper traps but also non-existent lower trap and his mid back looked hollow.
So, you don't think doing front squats will develop your legs differently than doing back squats?
Leg extensions are a quad exercise. Will your quads develop differently doing leg extensions vs. doing squats?
Will tricep cable pushdowns develop the triceps the same as tricep French presses?
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So, you don't think doing front squats will develop your legs differently than doing back squats?
Leg extensions are a quad exercise. Will your quads develop differently doing leg extensions vs. doing squats?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a5/05/26/a5052613fb02a24086f3a5667067cb71.gif)
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So, you don't think doing front squats will develop your legs differently than doing back squats?
Leg extensions are a quad exercise. Will your quads develop differently doing leg extensions vs. doing squats?
Will tricep cable pushdowns develop the triceps the same as tricep French presses?
Well, a lot of these situations can be very subtle and often requires a somewhat nuance response which often elicits a much deeper discussion unpacking a variety of implications both known and some newly brought to light as a result of this much deeper inquiry and exchange of ideas and perspective.
Fortunately, in this case, that doesn't apply. So my answer can be quite direct and unequivocal and that would absolutely, positively not. No difference at all.
The rate and to what extent your muscle develops will vary with the movement. For example, the leg extension doesn't seem to give enough stimulus to your squads as a pressing movement will. I think this has to do with how much more limited you are loading the muscle with resistance in the extension than you would with the hack squat. But how your quads will actually look and develop, the appearance of the muscle, will be the same. The exact same.
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So, you don't think doing front squats will develop your legs differently than doing back squats?
Leg extensions are a quad exercise. Will your quads develop differently doing leg extensions vs. doing squats?
Will tricep cable pushdowns develop the triceps the same as tricep French presses?
As a clarification, I do want to distinguish between muscle groups that have various functions such as the shoulder. Doing just front delt movements at the expense of rear delt movements will result in an unbalance overall shoulder development. Front delts will develop and the rears will remain pretty much the same. Same with traps. If you are just doing shrugs you will develop your "upper traps" but it won't have nearly the affect on your lower, midback portion of the trap as evidence with Mentzer.
But if you do squats exclusively or hacks exclusively it will have a different effect on your body as the squats also include a lot of lower back and glute action. So though this might effect the degree to which your quads respond and grow, the actually look, disregarding any size discrepancy, will remain the same. Exactly the same. You won't get more upper, lower, outer, inner development doing one or the other. The shape of your quads as it grows will be entirely dependant on it's genetic predisposition.
Like Brignole said, "Try it". Try do just squats for six months and then do hacks for six months. The only difference you will experience, if any, is with the size of the muscle. The actual shape and how it developed will go unchanged. Do any variation of tricep or biceps movements and see if it makes one iota of a difference in the shape of your muscle.
Dorian, when training that guy who does those "London Real" videos remarked, somewhat sarcastically how silly he thought it was that you could develop your inner or outer calf depending on toe position. As if your outer calf just suddenly shuts off because you point your toes out. Even if pointing your toes out feels like it is putting more stress on your inner calf it is trivial. Your whole calf is contracting no mater what angle your toes are.
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As you can see, Mentzer had very good upper traps but non-existant lower traps. I've seen amateurs mid level placing at local shows with better mid-backs.
A lot is genetic. Many can get enough mid back stimulation just with rows. Others may require more direct stimulation. All the published back routines by Mike consisted always of the Nautilus Pullover followed by underhand close grip over head pull downs.
What followed varied, either bentover DB rows, seated cable rows using the V shaped handle, or, in his last video, dead lifts which, as Brignole points out, only puts isometric tension throughout the spinal column and no real extension and contraction of the back muscles. That all comes from the legs and glutes. So I don't really consider the deadlift a back exercise per se but much prefer keeping the legs slightly bent and actually bending back and forth using the low back muscles. But in either case, as with the rest of the back routine, the low traps are not targeted as something like barbell rows would.
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mentpic1.jpg)
(https://www.builtreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/mike-mentzer-083.jpg)
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As you can see, Mentzer had very good upper traps but non-existant lower traps. I've seen amateurs mid level placing at local shows with better mid-backs.
A lot is genetic. Many can get enough mid back stimulation just with rows. Others may require more direct stimulation. All the published back routines by Mike consisted always of the Nautilus Pullover followed by underhand close grip over head pull downs.
What followed varied, either bentover DB rows, seated cable rows using the V shaped handle, or, in his last video, dead lifts which, as Brignole points out, only puts isometric tension throughout the spinal column and no real extension and contraction of the back muscles. That all comes from the legs and glutes. So I don't really consider the deadlift a back exercise per se but much prefer keeping the legs slightly bent and actually bending back and forth using the low back muscles. But in either case, as with the rest of the back routine, the low traps are not targeted as something like barbell rows would.
(https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mentpic1.jpg)
(https://www.builtreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/mike-mentzer-083.jpg)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292437161_An_Examination_Of_Muscle_Activation_And_Power_Characteristics_While_Performing_The_Deadlift_Exercise_With_Straight_And_Hexagonal_Barbells
The erector spinae sure do contract with the deadlift.
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Overthinking how to do exercises is silly, just lift, get stronger, and you will get bigger
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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292437161_An_Examination_Of_Muscle_Activation_And_Power_Characteristics_While_Performing_The_Deadlift_Exercise_With_Straight_And_Hexagonal_Barbells
The erector spinae sure do contract with the deadlift.
I try to be clear when I write but also try to avoid going into every specific detail and leave it and hope the reader will understand. I am verbose enough and I actually, believe or not, try to not write so much. But it seems if I am not absolutely specific then someone will always call me on it.
I made clear that in the deadlift the back muscles are under isometric" tension and not going through the extension and contraction of a joint in movement.
I thought it would be understood that by saying "isometric" tension one could reasonably conclude that to be in that state the muscle still has to contract. But it is contracting to hold and stabiliize a position. By saying extension and contraction I would have assumed one would understand that the muscle is now contracting to stimulate the movement of a joint.
With the dead lift there is some bend/straighen movement of the lower back but it is only for a short range of motion which you want minimize. The rest of the back muscles are contracting to stabilize the movement. Remember when someone is instructing a neophyte in the proper technique of a dead lift, or simply picking up a heavy object, it is to keep the head up, back straight and stiff, and lift with your legs and hips. The goal is to use as little of the back muscles as possible to maximize strength and leverage.
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Overthinking how to do exercises is silly, just lift, get stronger, and you will get bigger
How has that worked out for you?
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Overthinking how to do exercises is silly, just lift, get stronger, and you will get bigger
Just follow Johnny Falcon's workouts on Youtube. He had terrible form, listened to terrible music to pump himself up, was probably on meth and had a great physique.
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i just have to chime in . yes you can change the look of your muscles. even the shape. I know some of the text book experts will argue that you cant but yes you can. ever see people do partial reps in the squat? turnip thighs. big at the top and small the rest of the way. ( so much for the theory that all fibers contract or they dont. cuz if they did then partials would build the entire thigh . right? ) or do wide grip bench press. the outer pecs get more developed. only lower "burns" on curls. does the whole bicep grow? nope. tricep has 3 muscles . do each one grow equally on all exercises? again nope.. and yes turning the toes on calves ( and even leg exercises) does in fact cause different growth in areas than just straight up and down. where you feel the burn the pain the soreness is where you will get the growth. NOT from a book saying something that isnt true. some may call it "bro science" but i call real world truth. some of you will just argue to argue. also everyone responds differently to different things. so experiment DONT be a slave to text books or whats worked for this person or that person.
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does anyone notice that rick seems to be looking like "wtf are you saying. you expect people to believe this crap lol " almost like he is so bored and un interested in hearing doug. and before people start in i didnt say doug is wrong or anything. i just said thats the way rick seems to be looking.
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I think we are really agreeing for the most part, that muscles can respond differently to different exercises.
Pellius has himself used the deltoids as an example.
Your own genetics and muscle attachments ultimately determine how you look.
Where the arguments arise is when people, for example, say you can develop your bicep to resemble Arnold or Larry Scott, by doing a certain exercise.
If you genetically do not have biceps peaked like mountains you can do concentration curls until the end of time and you still won't have those peaks. However, your biceps will improve as much as possible for you.
You can only develop your own bicep to it's potential.
At the same time, only doing barbell curls will not develop your biceps to their maximum potential.
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does anyone notice that rick seems to be looking like "wtf are you saying. you expect people to believe this crap lol " almost like he is so bored and un interested in hearing doug. and before people start in i didnt say doug is wrong or anything. i just said thats the way rick seems to be looking.
Ric was just waiting for an opportunity to start talking and monopolize the conversation. ;)
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also text books and doctors say that "cumming" doesnt have any affect on a mans knees. so does anyone here have issues with knees after ejaculation? yes. we all do. boxers and other athletes all know that it does in fact hurt the knees. dont believe me then go right ahead and do some squats after you have ejaculated. so again text books and docs are NOT always right. ( and please guys dont make this into a fag thing like some of you always do)
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ok so true. the way your MUSCLES will look is genetics. no matter how you train you wont acheive the same thing as others ( francos split pecs boyers peak/split bicep etc) but you can change the shape of your own muscles to a certain degree.
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also text books and doctors say that "cumming" doesnt have any affect on a mans knees. so does anyone here have issues with knees after ejaculation? yes. we all do. boxers and other athletes all know that it does in fact hurt the knees. dont believe me then go right ahead and do some squats after you have ejaculated. so again text books and docs are NOT always right. ( and please guys dont make this into a fag thing like some of you always do)
Missionary position intercourse can be hard on the knees for sure.
But I think you mean it takes some of the piss and vinegar out of you. This is for sure the truth.
Mentally, I always felt I could think more clearly if I was getting laid a lot.
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Doug seems to provide some good info.
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Missionary position intercourse can be hard on the knees for sure.
But I think you mean it takes some of the piss and vinegar out of you. This is for sure the truth.
Mentally, I always felt I could think more clearly if I was getting laid a lot.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/90cc457dff294f8a2ef32d939303e1dd/tenor.gif?itemid=3384091)
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How has that worked out for you?
Pretty good actually, I'm natty for life, no steroids here
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(https://miro.medium.com/max/320/1*ojdZXXm6_NTJsU972sva2Q.jpeg)
;D
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The truth is this, if your max bench is 135 lbs, your chest is almost non existent but by the time you can bench 225 lbs you have at least something, by the time you can bench 315 lbs your chest is substantially bigger and by the time you can bench 405 lbs pretty much your entire upper body is substantially bigger and by the time you can bench 495 lbs you are looking pretty big for sure (with 20'' arms and stuff) also you should improve your squat and your deadlift, by the time you can squat and deadlift 750 lbs your legs are pretty big
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The truth is this, if your max bench is 135 lbs, your chest is almost non existent but by the time you can bench 225 lbs you have at least something, by the time you can bench 315 lbs your chest is substantially bigger and by the time you can bench 405 lbs pretty much your entire upper body is substantially bigger and by the time you can bench 495 lbs you are looking pretty big for sure (with 20'' arms and stuff) also you should improve your squat and your deadlift, by the time you can squat and deadlift 750 lbs your legs are pretty big
I understand the idea but there are powerlifters who squat and bench big but are not big themselves and do not have mass.
There was a 130 lb powerlifter who squatted 700. He was skinny really. His legs were called "pliers in shorts".
Likewise superstrong Oly lifters who are not big.
Great strength does not correlate to size.
Anyway that is another topic.
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(https://miro.medium.com/max/320/1*ojdZXXm6_NTJsU972sva2Q.jpeg)
;D
Wes, I'm shocked by your attitude. This is really important.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/90cc457dff294f8a2ef32d939303e1dd/tenor.gif?itemid=3384091)
Terrific analogy of an orgasm, Swifty.
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I understand the idea but there are powerlifters who squat and bench big but are not big themselves and do not have mass.
There was a 130 lb powerlifter who squatted 700. He was skinny really. His legs were called "pliers in shorts".
Likewise superstrong Oly lifters who are not big.
Great strength does not correlate to size.
Anyway that is another topic.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention, I meant it reaching these strength levels while training as a bodybuilder! Not as a powerlifter! A bodybuilder should never do less than 10 reps, using math calculations a max can be calculated. But make no mistake about it, natties need to get stronger to build mass, idk how it is with steroids but I think even with steroids there's only so much pumping can do, you do eventually have to add weight and get progressively stronger on all your lifts to continue to grow, even when you are on steroids
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Oh yes, I forgot to mention, I meant it reaching these strength levels while training as a bodybuilder! Not as a powerlifter! A bodybuilder should never do less than 10 reps, using math calculations a max can be calculated. But make no mistake about it, natties need to get stronger to build mass, idk how it is with steroids but I think even with steroids there's only so much pumping can do, you do eventually have to add weight and get progressively stronger on all your lifts to continue to grow, even when you are on steroids
There is logic in that but the type of training to achieve ultimate strength is more training of the nervous system and connective tissues than of muscles. This is not to say gaining bodyweight will not provide better leverage and strength but the improvement is not proportional since so much fat is also gained.
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and this will also cause an argument from text book know it alls. BUT i hate to tell you that strength does not mean a bigger muscle. there is so much more to gaining strength than gaining size and vice versa. a big muscle does not mean a strong muscle either. lots of little guys with little to no muscle are very strong and lots of big guys are not very strong. and the above poster saying NO bodybuilder should train with less than 10 reps is just plain wrong. some need to train in the 5 rep range for their body type and others need higher reps ( 12 to 15) and some the middle of the road. if strength equalled size then those taking drugs like winstrol would be huge due to the fact in increases your strength. right? BUT its doesnt work that way. you get stronger with little added weight( muscle) gain. lifting weights and getting bigger and or stronger is not rocket science. lift eat rest repeat. listen to your body. if heavy ( for you) isnt causing gains then switch to lighter more reps. if that doesnt work try other stuff. dont be a slave to one way and only one way to work out. especially if your natural. myself for example my triceps likes higher reps biceps fewer. shoulders need higher reps but chest and back need fewer. thighs and hamstrings need higher reps and calves heavy and lower reps. took me years to figure out that i needed different weights/rep ranges for different body parts. also basic exercises do not work for everyone. dont be afraid to drop benches rows pulldowns standing curls shoulder presses and squats from your routine,
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Great minds think alike bigbychoice.
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and this will also cause an argument from text book know it alls. BUT i hate to tell you that strength does not mean a bigger muscle. there is so much more to gaining strength than gaining size and vice versa. a big muscle does not mean a strong muscle either. lots of little guys with little to no muscle are very strong and lots of big guys are not very strong. and the above poster saying NO bodybuilder should train with less than 10 reps is just plain wrong. some need to train in the 5 rep range for their body type and others need higher reps ( 12 to 15) and some the middle of the road. if strength equalled size then those taking drugs like winstrol would be huge due to the fact in increases your strength. right? BUT its doesnt work that way. you get stronger with little added weight( muscle) gain. lifting weights and getting bigger and or stronger is not rocket science. lift eat rest repeat. listen to your body. if heavy ( for you) isnt causing gains then switch to lighter more reps. if that doesnt work try other stuff. dont be a slave to one way and only one way to work out. especially if your natural. myself for example my triceps likes higher reps biceps fewer. shoulders need higher reps but chest and back need fewer. thighs and hamstrings need higher reps and calves heavy and lower reps. took me years to figure out that i needed different weights/rep ranges for different body parts. also basic exercises do not work for everyone. dont be afraid to drop benches rows pulldowns standing curls shoulder presses and squats from your routine,
Agree couldn’t gain for shit till dropping down to multiple sets of 5
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especially if your natural. myself for example my triceps likes higher reps biceps fewer. shoulders need higher reps but chest and back need fewer. thighs and hamstrings need higher reps and calves
If I'm reading you right you're natural? Fact of the matter is that most people aren't gaining shit when natural, except for the initial gains when starting out. This is even true of juicers. They don't gain shit after the initial gains from juice.
I always get a laugh hearing lifters talking about what "works" for them. It's like, fella, you didn't gain anything the last 15 years, what the hell are you talking about?
Most lifters are losing and regaining lost size most of the time. Very little time is spent putting on new size.
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If I'm reading you right you're natural? Fact of the matter is that most people aren't gaining shit when natural, except for the initial gains when starting out. This is even true of juicers. They don't gain shit after the initial gains from juice.
I always get a laugh hearing lifters talking about what "works" for them. It's like, fella, you didn't gain anything the last 15 years, what the hell are you talking about?
Most lifters are losing and regaining lost size most of the time. Very little time is spent putting on new size.
22 years apart
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50035216_2049069188496159_7268393182453301248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=w8-FEoXdg0wAX_v7WO6&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=a30a98f7b66a5a772a50a579f7e7a5a3&oe=5FAEC7A5)
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If I'm reading you right you're natural? Fact of the matter is that most people aren't gaining shit when natural, except for the initial gains when starting out. This is even true of juicers. They don't gain shit after the initial gains from juice.
I always get a laugh hearing lifters talking about what "works" for them. It's like, fella, you didn't gain anything the last 15 years, what the hell are you talking about?
Most lifters are losing and regaining lost size most of the time. Very little time is spent putting on new size.
Or they claim they've made steady gains through the years. I started lifting when I was 12 and doubled my bench in 1 month. If I made steady gains all these years I'd be benching planet Jupiter.
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Great post bud
and this will also cause an argument from text book know it alls. BUT i hate to tell you that strength does not mean a bigger muscle. there is so much more to gaining strength than gaining size and vice versa. a big muscle does not mean a strong muscle either. lots of little guys with little to no muscle are very strong and lots of big guys are not very strong. and the above poster saying NO bodybuilder should train with less than 10 reps is just plain wrong. some need to train in the 5 rep range for their body type and others need higher reps ( 12 to 15) and some the middle of the road. if strength equalled size then those taking drugs like winstrol would be huge due to the fact in increases your strength. right? BUT its doesnt work that way. you get stronger with little added weight( muscle) gain. lifting weights and getting bigger and or stronger is not rocket science. lift eat rest repeat. listen to your body. if heavy ( for you) isnt causing gains then switch to lighter more reps. if that doesnt work try other stuff. dont be a slave to one way and only one way to work out. especially if your natural. myself for example my triceps likes higher reps biceps fewer. shoulders need higher reps but chest and back need fewer. thighs and hamstrings need higher reps and calves heavy and lower reps. took me years to figure out that i needed different weights/rep ranges for different body parts. also basic exercises do not work for everyone. dont be afraid to drop benches rows pulldowns standing curls shoulder presses and squats from your routine,
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My man Simple Simon defying that fuckhead "Father Time" !!
Props my vriend!
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Missionary position intercourse can be hard on the knees for sure.
But I think you mean it takes some of the piss and vinegar out of you. This is for sure the truth.
Mentally, I always felt I could think more clearly if I was getting laid a lot.
Ah, so that explains your torrential flow of illogic flowing in this thread. J/K ;D
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The truth is this, if your max bench is 135 lbs, your chest is almost non existent but by the time you can bench 225 lbs you have at least something, by the time you can bench 315 lbs your chest is substantially bigger and by the time you can bench 405 lbs pretty much your entire upper body is substantially bigger and by the time you can bench 495 lbs you are looking pretty big for sure (with 20'' arms and stuff) also you should improve your squat and your deadlift, by the time you can squat and deadlift 750 lbs your legs are pretty big
This is true. When a muscle gets bigger it gets stronger in the sense that it increases it's contractile force. This should be obvious. When a muscle gets bigger it either increases the size of the individual fibers (hypertrophy) or increases the number of fibers (hyperplasia). Both of these conditions result in an increase in contractile force. Conversely, if those fibers start to shrink or waste away they atrophy and the ability to contract decreases. These are just objective facts not subject to debate.
The confusion lies when strength is defined not just by the ability of the muscle to contract but by the function ability of the body operating as a whole. Generating force, moving a weight, say in the case of performing the bench press, there are so many other factors involved other than pure muscle strength to move a certain amount of weight that it is meaningless to compare two different people. Difference in arm length, neurological efficiency, techniques, tendon strength, skill in the movement... it goes on and on. The only meaningful comparison you can make is to yourself. So whether you are strong or weak "for your size" is not as important as the ability to progress in resistance. If you are an experience trainee, all the peripheral factors: skill, leverage, neurological efficiency, technique... are now held constant. The only factor now for that particular individual is increasing muscle size and strength which is directly correlated.
So though two people may be able to bench press 315 lbs can easily have a dramatically difference in musculature, one thing that you can be certain in both cases, that when each individual started benching at, say, 135 lbs, they had noticeably less muscle mass than they now have benching 315 lbs.
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Oh yes, I forgot to mention, I meant it reaching these strength levels while training as a bodybuilder! Not as a powerlifter! A bodybuilder should never do less than 10 reps, using math calculations a max can be calculated. But make no mistake about it, natties need to get stronger to build mass, idk how it is with steroids but I think even with steroids there's only so much pumping can do, you do eventually have to add weight and get progressively stronger on all your lifts to continue to grow, even when you are on steroids
I think it is always a big mistake to make such absolute claims. Where did you get this 10 rep absolute requirement for optimal gains, especially since no one, other than maybe you, though even that I doubt, ever does? Haven't you watch the infinite amount of videos out there where the rep range varies wildly?
I remember the strength coach at our gym put it this way: A powerlifter tries to find the easiest way to move the weight. A bodybuilder tries to make a movement as hard as possible on the muscle. This will always result in having to use less weight due to the emphasis on form rather than just hoist it up anyway you can.
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If I'm reading you right you're natural? Fact of the matter is that most people aren't gaining shit when natural, except for the initial gains when starting out. This is even true of juicers. They don't gain shit after the initial gains from juice.
I always get a laugh hearing lifters talking about what "works" for them. It's like, fella, you didn't gain anything the last 15 years, what the hell are you talking about?
Most lifters are losing and regaining lost size most of the time. Very little time is spent putting on new size.
I swear, sometimes when I read your posts I think I am reading myself. I can't count the number of times I've heard people tell me "It works for me." And I always think, "What do you mean by that? You haven't changed in years."
There is this one guy in my gym. Strong guy, a bit fat but built like a tank, and disciplined as hell. Never misses a workout, you can set a clock to his schedule, and has been doing the same thing for years. We once got to talking and he told me he trains seven days a week. He does a traditional six day a week program, training each bodypart twice a week, and on the 7th day he does what he calls a "Chip Chop" workout. When I asked him what he meant by that, he says that is the day when gives some extra training to body parts that are lagging. His weak points as he further explained.
This type of stuff just amazes me. How this is emblematic of how so many live their lives not just in bbing. They're not stupid, or lazy, but just, I don't know -- robots? Just going through the motions of life so unaware. Like those kinds of people that still wear a face mask when they are driving alone in their cars with the windows closed and presumably the a/c/ on. I've know this guy for over 15 years and he has always looked the same. I would really like to have seen an example where one of his body parts were starting to lag and then needed some "Chip Chop" treatment to bring them back up to snuff and it was now time to move over to another bodypart in need of some "Chip Chop".
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22 years apart
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50035216_2049069188496159_7268393182453301248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=w8-FEoXdg0wAX_v7WO6&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=a30a98f7b66a5a772a50a579f7e7a5a3&oe=5FAEC7A5)
You did seem to have increased the width of your clavicle bone. Monster props for that. People always insist that you can't change your skeletal structure. If you could share your secret to Health you could transform him into the greatest bber ever.
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no im not "natural". been using off and on since 16. ( mostly off) got my first dball prescription at 16 from family doctor.( 2.53 cents with my dads insurance) he put me on 4 tabs a day ( 5mg each) damn did i grow from that first 6 week cycle. guys older than me at the gym asked what the doc put me on i told them and they freaked out saying they were only taking 2 tabs. im 56 now and still using but mostly milder stuff and some test of course. always do bloods donate blood and never mega dose. Im no pro nor do i have the genetics to ever be able to turn pro ( i knew that many years ago) so i just do the best with what i have. im currently 5ft 9 205 lbs and 8 percent bodyfat ( using a caliper) ive been as high as 238 lbs at 12 percent but found it hard to function. i just felt un well. my sweet spot is right around 200 lbs give or take a few pounds. when im off no matter what i do i drop to around 180 ( give or take a few lbs) but i quickly gain it back but it does get harder to regain as i get older. so i switched to milder ones and keep rotating them around. not trying to get "huge" just keep current size. of course no matter what father time gets to us all.
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GOOD POSTS HERE.....i've been training long time and have all these conversations in my head lol.
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also text books and doctors say that "cumming" doesnt have any affect on a mans knees. so does anyone here have issues with knees after ejaculation? yes. we all do. boxers and other athletes all know that it does in fact hurt the knees. dont believe me then go right ahead and do some squats after you have ejaculated. so again text books and docs are NOT always right. ( and please guys dont make this into a fag thing like some of you always do)
Truth here. I remember training legs in the 90's and my training partner would sometimes bang his wife before doing legs. His squat weight dropped by least 30-40%. He was complaining about being weak/tired all the way through the workout and all I would say is: "I told you not to fuck her before training"
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Truth here. I remember training legs in the 90's and my training partner would sometimes bang his wife before doing legs. His squat weight dropped by least 30-40%. He was complaining about being weak/tired all the way through the workout and all I would say is: "I told you not to fuck her before training"
I take it you didnt train at Planet Fitness?
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I take it you didnt train at Planet Fitness?
LOL...
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I'm the only natty with legit 20'' arms, that I know of (I know Mike O'hearn is bigger than me though with 21'' arms) so I think it's fair to say I know my stuff
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I'm the only natty with legit 20'' arms, that I know of (I know Mike O'hearn is bigger than me though with 21'' arms) so I think it's fair to say I know my stuff
heres a 24 inch natty arm
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/02/article-2440241-1874B16700000578-447_636x419.jpg)
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heres a 24 inch natty arm
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/02/article-2440241-1874B16700000578-447_636x419.jpg)
Yeah but what's her bf %? 30-40%?
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Yeah but what's her bf %? 30-40%?
Whats yours?
I mean really, not just the one you have in your imagination.
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heres a 24 inch natty arm
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/02/article-2440241-1874B16700000578-447_636x419.jpg)
Lots of concentration curls!
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Lots of concentration curls!
With a spoon. High volume!
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Ah, so that explains your torrential flow of illogic flowing in this thread. J/K ;D
Biden-speak.
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With a spoon. High volume!
(https://missfiggyfresh.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/fat-girl-eating-ice-cream.gif)
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Lots of concentration curls!
;D
nah,, you need to do preacher curls to fill out the lower bicep to get that much mass
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(https://missfiggyfresh.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/fat-girl-eating-ice-cream.gif)
What a disgusting pig! The woman, not you IroNat.
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What a disgusting pig! The woman, not you IroNat.
The endorphin rush she's having is off the charts.
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The endorphin rush she's having is off the charts.
And the insulin.