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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Matt C on June 16, 2006, 02:36:34 AM

Title: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Matt C on June 16, 2006, 02:36:34 AM
Check it out on bodybuilding pro.com.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mars on June 16, 2006, 02:47:44 AM
Thanks again Matt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 16, 2006, 03:32:13 AM
Matt, why bring up steroids in your review? Haven't you read what Phillipians 4:13 (http://bible.cc/philippians/4-13.htm) says? Why do you think SethKodiak is wearing that shirt? He wants people to know that Jesus is just like milk . . . but only better, b/c he's not produced by the hormone-tainted cows you refer to in your review. ;D

(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/markdugdaledrivendvd/25.jpg)

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: bigtraps on June 16, 2006, 03:43:52 AM
Matt, why bring up steroids in your review? Haven't you read what Phillipians 4:13 (http://bible.cc/philippians/4-13.htm) says? Why do you think SethKodiak is wearing that shirt? He wants people to know that Jesus is just like milk . . . but only better, b/c he's not produced by the hormone-tainted cows you refer to in your review. ;D

(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/markdugdaledrivendvd/25.jpg)



Oh brother.  "Got Jesus".  Who would watch this crap?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: natural al on June 16, 2006, 04:18:20 AM
Mark is a stand up guy and has the type of physique that the IFBB should be pushing.   No gut, big, ripped with seperation, well prepared, in reality he's the total package as far as a modern day bodybuilder goes.  Maybe he's a little light by today's standards but maybe that's part of the problem. 
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OneMoreRep on June 16, 2006, 04:51:50 AM
I hope Mark maintains his well balanced physique and doesn't opt for playing the size game.  He looks healthy and preserves the good name of the sport.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: dseiler on June 16, 2006, 04:59:18 AM
Oh brother.  "Got Jesus".  Who would watch this crap?

Slay the infidel!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: njflex on June 16, 2006, 07:00:39 PM
he look's awesome and deserve's it .look's like he trains his ass off.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on June 17, 2006, 12:36:13 PM
it's really a good DVD, way more entertaining than 6 hours uncut no comment Mitsuru Okabe homevideos.

Mark comments on his training a lot, there are voice overs and nice editing.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: hardest core on June 17, 2006, 09:42:12 PM
Mark is a friend of mine. He has busted his butt, trained on the border of injury for several years........he trains that hard. Not only that, he is a great father, husband, business owner........and human being. He has set the bar VERY high.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 17, 2006, 10:31:43 PM
Not only that, he is a great father, husband, business owner........and human being. He has set the bar VERY high.

I wish I could be a great citizen like him . . . not cause others to engage in behavior that is unethical.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: FOR REAL on June 18, 2006, 09:26:10 AM
Got Jesus? LOL are you kidding me... I wonder if Jesus got Mark his testosterone and deca!!

Give me a break...
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OneMoreRep on June 18, 2006, 09:49:52 AM
Then again, like most Christians I'm sure Mark follows the parts of the bible he likes and conveniently ignores the others.  But in that case why be a Christian to begin with?

Mark knows better, in the very bible it speaks of the fact that God wants his followers to be either Cold or Hot, not to be lukewarm.  Vanity is a hell of sin.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on June 18, 2006, 09:59:59 AM
No Christian should be a pro.

One word which probably describes Mark's feelings of himself: cognitive dissonance.

Good call.  IMO, if a person chooses to engage in criminal (or loopholed from a doc with hi oh-so- low test levels), he and his camp should at the very least not be preachy to others.  Haney was a strong Christian and sure, he used.  But he wasn't on message boards banning people for disagreeing with a one-sided argument, as the Camp Rugdale did yesterday.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on June 18, 2006, 10:01:15 AM
Good call.  IMO, if a person chooses to engage in criminal (or loopholed from a doc with hi oh-so- low test levels), he and his camp should at the very least not be preachy to others.  Haney was a strong Christian and sure, he used.  But he wasn't on message boards banning people for disagreeing with a one-sided argument, as the Camp Rugdale did yesterday.
what happened there, 240?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ManBearPig... on June 18, 2006, 10:09:52 AM
someone asked dugdale's wife how she felt about him commiting a federal crime and sinning by doing steroids.

her response was "they're prescription" and that he was "threading on thin ice".

monster creeps.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: dav-bol on June 18, 2006, 10:11:10 AM
Sarcasm said it best "monster hipocrasy".

I use juice, I belive in God, but I wouldn't dare present myself as role model Christian while
at the same time using COPIOUS amounts and types of bb'ing drugs of every sort.

No he's not a mass monster, but I've seen his before pics (sans juice) and he was 130 pounds soaking wet.
He has great genes for chemical bbing/work ethic/etc. but he's used just as much as anyone to get his pro card...and we all know what the cocktail entails.

Rolling the dice with your health when you have a family is just plain stupid, and it shows who really comes first
..and it ain't Jesus.
It's all ego and vanity and is diametrically opposed to what Christianity "should" be about.
Yes, he's looking uoward towards Jesus, but deep down he's really looking in the mirror for his salvation.

Nothing worse than a hipocrit.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OneMoreRep on June 18, 2006, 10:13:40 AM


her response was "they're prescription" and that he was "threading on thin ice".
[/quote]

This sounds like the same predicament lawyers that happen to be christians are in.  They lie for a living, yet blame it on their career.  "Sure I lie, but it's not intentional, just an occupational hazard that I must do for the sake of my vocation."

I got news for both of these camps, God hates lukewarm christians and the law of God is more powerful than the law of man!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: cswol on June 18, 2006, 06:25:34 PM
to each their own, as long as that person respects and recognizes others beliefs.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on June 18, 2006, 09:07:10 PM
What she said about pornography causing erectile dysfunction was completely erroneous.  I get the point though: pornography has the potential to distort a man's views on women and sex.  Valid enough.

She obviously can't accept any debate about her religion.  That goes back to living in a fantasty world like I said.

She seems nice though.  Nice looking and nice demeanor.  She might not be the most consistent debater out there but nobody is forcing me to debate with her so I don't care too much.

She did say in the DVD that at first she thought Mark just wanted to get in her pants (not in those words).  I HATE when girls say this shit.  It almost implies that they are doing men a favour by having sex with us and they don't want it themselves.  ::)  Meanwhile, according to her posts on mayhem, Christina is probably the horniest woman I've ever heard about and needs sex like air and water.


  Many women do think they are doing men a favor by acquiescing to our sexual needs :-\
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 18, 2006, 09:14:31 PM
LOL!  The bible is a nice touch.

Christians should not pick and choose what part of the bible they agree with.  In fact, Mark himself said this in the DVD!!  I have nothing against Mark's steroid use AT ALL.  It's a personal choice, but I don't see how he can live with himself if it contradicts something he holds so dear.


I have nothing against Mark either. Honestly his wife is also a great person. The hypocrisy is annoying tho!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 08:52:39 AM
Why was this pic deleted? It is a joke. Dugdale deleted my posts that I originally put in the thread. If not him one of the mods. They where not hateful at all.Where is the baseless attack? alot of people question Mark and 3g's hypocrisy. They are allowed to influence with religion but I cannot make a caricature?

Questions where raised about Mark using steroids yet being so religious. it was all asked in a respectful way by Matt and myself. Why was it deleted? Like I said Mark is a great guy and I am sure his wife is a great person also. But the hypocrisy should be called out!!!!!!!!!!!

what gives?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 19, 2006, 09:00:20 AM
Why was this pic deleted? It is a joke. Dugdale deleted my posts that I originally put in the thread. If not him one of the mods. They where not hateful at all.Where is the baseless attack? alot of people question Mark and 3g's hypocrisy. They are allowed to influence with religion but i cannot make a caricature?

Questions where raised about Mark using steroids yet being so religious. it was all asked in a respectful way by Matt and myself. Why was it deleted? Like I said Mark is a great guy and I am sure his wife is a great person also. But the hypocrisy should be called out!!!!!!!!!!!

what gives?

I think quite a few of us saved it and will repost it until the end of time on every board so let them have their petty fun.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 09:19:39 AM
Word!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 19, 2006, 02:29:22 PM
aww fuck 'em.  The truth can withstand any attack. It's only lies that need the protection of censorship.

Why do you think we have first amendment protections here in the US? b/c we know that letting the truth prevail is the best policy.  The US (unlike getbig apparently) isn't like the USSR or China, where they need(ed) to censor shit so that people wouldn't learn the truth about communism and laugh in their govts.' faces.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: dav-bol on June 19, 2006, 02:58:07 PM
Some ass=hole deleted my post.  :-\
Guess I hit a nerve..........
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Stavios on June 19, 2006, 03:09:53 PM
What gives anyway?  ???

Our job on getbig is not to protect anyone who has a fragile ego!

I cannot STAND people who can't take the TRUTH.  Say whatever you will about me, and I'll keep listening if it is constructive or reality based.

I said to a girl once that she bases her self esteem on what others think about her (utter truth) and she had a fit.  I find it incredibly annoying when people can't take it as it is.

Mark just said on the VIP board that he leave getbig cause of disrespectful comments about his wife.
I hate to say this but I think Mark is wrong on this one and if his wife express herself about her opinions on a public forum, she has to accept the opinions of everybody
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on June 19, 2006, 03:29:40 PM
What disrespectful comments?

I think Mark is talking about truthful comments that Christina doesn't want to hear.

It's somewhat sad and very unrealistic if he expects that Christina will be living under a rock which is mayhem for the rest of her life.

Truth hurts.

I have respect for both of them as should be obvious from my review, but I sure as hell will not be a yes man.

  Maybe they are both a little sensitive ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jaejonna on June 19, 2006, 03:30:22 PM
Im leaving cause of my wife...whhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

booohooooo

I like what the guy brings on stage, but I hope you guys arent serious that e cant take a lil ribbing like everyone else
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ManBearPig... on June 19, 2006, 03:39:58 PM
you people do realize he met her at a bar while she was getting tanked by herself right?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 03:45:57 PM
you people do realize he met her at a bar while she was getting tanked by herself right?
Actually she was with a group of friends and we were meeting them at the bar.  She does enjoy a margarita  ;)  Any more questions?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jaejonna on June 19, 2006, 03:49:11 PM
Thats what Im saying, Im with you Mark ..cant a lady enjoy a drink
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 03:50:55 PM
Some people are like that.  To be honest with you I simply cannot befriend people like that.  I refuse to be forced to give people what they want to hear all the time.  If you do something that I can't respect for one reason or another I WILL CALL YOU ON IT, and I couldn't care less if it's the last time we speak.  End result: I befriend a lot of very confident and secure people and the insecure ones are not a part of my life.

Even if someone is an amazing person in every other area of life, that one flaw (not being able to accept constructive criticism) is enough for me not to want to associate with that person.

Mark should really come on here and engage in open minded discussion about this topic.  What are we going to do - bite him?  Well maybe some on here would LOL.
Actually Matt, I sent you a copy of my DVD to review, but I got a bargin... you reviewed my entire life, wife, kids, religion, drug use.  So if I understand this correctly your "ace in the hole" is your personal interpretation of Romans?  Come on dude, I bet you can do better than that.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 03:54:44 PM
Thats what Im saying, Im with you Mark ..cant a lady enjoy a drink
She's usually enjoying a good red wine... for all your religious rightwing nuts... wine is cool, Jesus knew how to throw a party... he turned the water into it as his first miracle.  ;)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jaejonna on June 19, 2006, 03:56:08 PM
Actually Matt, I sent you a copy of my DVD to review, but I got a bargin... you reviewed my entire life, wife, kids, religion, drug use.  So if I understand this correctly your "ace in the hole" is your personal interpretation of Romans?  Come on dude, I bet you can do better than that.

nice comeback ....Matt is giving out bargins ... this is good
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jaejonna on June 19, 2006, 03:58:03 PM
I love it how, once you say that your a Christian...automaticall y your being reviewed for sainthood.......
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jonno gb on June 19, 2006, 03:59:20 PM
you people do realize he met her at a bar while she was getting tanked by herself right?
So he met his wife in a bar-really strange that ::) Maybe Power Rod needs to adopt the English 'pub' culture and stop getting hung up about such things.Where do you meet women-in church ;)

Also where in the bible does it say that it is morally wrong to try to enhance your performance!!! What happened to freedom of the individual-I have chosen to remain 'natural' but if someone wants to reach the next level by using performance enhancing drugs then so what.There's no moral high ground to be had through being natural IMO.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 03:59:58 PM
Mark, I didn't review your drug use, I just said it opposes the word of the bible.  You aren't arguing this are you?

As for Christina, I said she can't accept debate.

Is anything I said untrue?
Quote it brother Matt!  I want to hear that one verse from Romans.  Bring it home, brother, I'm almost feeeeeling the Holy Ghost now.  :o

Are you kidding?  She is constantly debating in the debate section of Mayhem... so much so it gives me a headache.  Which ever of you fellas is Purge, she didn't ban you from the OT section either.  However, I must have missed the debate class where when you feel cornered, change subjects and make charges against our opponents spouse... I must admit that was pretty cool.  You should run for office.  ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 19, 2006, 04:00:32 PM
She's usually enjoying a good red wine... for all your religious rightwing nuts... wine is cool, Jesus knew how to throw a party... he turned the water into it as his first miracle.  ;)

Hey Mark, do you see anything wrong with this picture?

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=79411.0;attach=85494;image)

One of the people are doing their own thing, tell me can you guess which one.  Can you guess which one is doing there own thing, tell me can you guess which one... before my song is done?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Stavios on June 19, 2006, 04:00:37 PM
I love it how, once you say that your a Christian...automaticall y your being reviewed for sainthood.......

Very true, Shawn said he was christian and people keeps bashing him for it.

Anyway I don't believe in god but I am fine with people who believes in him
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:05:35 PM
Hey Mark, do you see anything wrong with this picture?

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=79411.0;attach=85494;image)

One of the people are doing their own thing, tell me can you guess which one.  Can you guess which one is doing there own thing, tell me can you guess which one... before my song is done?
Oh hell... I can't see anything.  All I got in my mind is a picture of you Naked4Jesus and I REALLY wish you would put your pants back on... it's grossing me out. >:(
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ManBearPig... on June 19, 2006, 04:09:32 PM
Actually she was with a group of friends and we were meeting them at the bar.  She does enjoy a margarita  ;)  Any more questions?

that is NOT the story she said.  she said she was getting sloppy at a bar "at the end of her road" and you "miarculously" showed up.  Come on man.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:11:02 PM

I have nothing against Mark either. Honestly his wife is also a great person. The hypocrisy is annoying tho!
What's your thought on this... Who's the bigger hyprocrite?  The guy who claims to be a Christian, but fails to meet the non-Christians biblical interpretation of the bible.  They are drawing a line in the sand over a matter of conscious based on Paul's one verse in Romans, yet they think the book is a fraud.  That's weird.... but amusing.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 19, 2006, 04:11:32 PM
Quote it brother Matt!  I want to hear that one verse from Romans.  Bring it home, brother, I'm almost feeeeeling the Holy Ghost now.  :o

Are you kidding?  She is constantly debating in the debate section of Mayhem... so much so it gives me a headache.  Which ever of you fellas is Purge, she didn't ban you from the OT section either.  However, I must have missed the debate class where when you feel cornered, change subjects and make charges against our opponents spouse... I must admit that was pretty cool.  You should run for office.  ;D

Mark, you probably have a prescription for your supplements, which would make them legal for you to use, but not ethical . . . your physician might justify his behavior somehow, but he is not living up to the code of conduct of the medical profession, and could get disbarred if someone felt the matter was worth pursuing. What he is doing--prescribing supplements you don't need--is illegal (ask Rush Limbaugh).  So here's a verse for you:

MT 18:7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Ask yourself, are you causing your physician to sin? 

Do you feel that abusing supplements--you don't need them after all--makes you a good role model for all the young people who meet you? Remember what Christ said about those who cause the children to stumble? 
You justify your choices, and proclaim your health, but are you willing to be responsible for someone who follows in your path w/o your particular resources? As a public figure, this verse should make you particularly wary.


MT 18:5 "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 19, 2006, 04:12:45 PM
Oh hell... I can't see anything.  All I got in my mind is a picture of you Naked4Jesus and I REALLY wish you would put your pants back on... it's grossing me out. >:(

Bahahahahhahahahahahahah ahahahaha!   Don't be so Envious Mark, it's one of the seven deadly sins you know! Bahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jaejonna on June 19, 2006, 04:14:17 PM
that is NOT the story she said.  she said she was getting sloppy at a bar "at the end of her road" and you "miarculously" showed up.  Come on man.
 Damn are you a magnifying glass... i think your looking into too much....its not that deep ..let the man breath you dickheads he is a bb not the pope!!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:14:31 PM
that is NOT the story she said.  she said she was getting sloppy at a bar "at the end of her road" and you "miarculously" showed up.  Come on man.
Get over it already, bro.... would you please?  We all know you are envious (notice I didn't say jealous, 'cause jealousy's a sin and then I would be preaching) that you failed to show up before me.  ;D  I've seen your posts about what you want to do sexually with my wife.  Move along, you will be less frustrated.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:16:14 PM
Bahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha!   Don't be so Envious Mark, it's one of the seven deadly sins you know! Bahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I thought it was jealousy, not envy?  Well, you are naked4jesus, so you probably no better than me.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 19, 2006, 04:19:39 PM
I thought it was jealousy, not envy?  Well, you are naked4jesus, so you probably no better than me.

Yes Mark I do KNOW better so now you owe me a favor since I corrected your error.   What do you think of my current trap development and what can I do to turn them into massive mounds of muscle?

(http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=RETARDED+FACE/v=2/SID=w/l=IVS/;_ylt=A9G_RtsVaRBEpH8B1ZujzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12m6d1muk/EXP=1142012565/*-http%3A//img75.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Euniceloh/dadretarded.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:20:39 PM
Mark, you probably have a prescription for your supplements, which would make them legal for you to use, but not ethical . . . your physician might justify his behavior somehow, but he is not living up to the code of conduct of the medical profession, and could get disbarred if someone felt the matter was worth pursuing. What he is doing--prescribing supplements you don't need--is illegal (ask Rush Limbaugh).  So here's a verse for you:

MT 18:7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Ask yourself, are you causing your physician to sin? 

Do you feel that abusing supplements--you don't need them after all--makes you a good role model for all the young people who meet you? Remember what Christ said about those who cause the children to stumble? 
You justify your choices, and proclaim your health, but are you willing to be responsible for someone who follows in your path w/o your particular resources? As a public figure, this verse should make you particularly wary.


MT 18:5 "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


I personally don't think I am causing my doctor to sin.  We can agree to disagree.  I get plenty of emails from kids wanting drug advice and they all get the same response... seek the advice of a medical professional.  When asked if they can turn pro naturally, I suggest the Team Universe.  We all have options and choices to make in life... you are all free to make your own choice.  I don't think you have seen my blood work that I get done every 4 months, so you can only make assumptions as to my health.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:21:42 PM
Yes Mark I do KNOW better so now you owe me a favor since I corrected your error.   What do you think of my current trap development and what can I do to turn them into massive mounds of muscle?

(http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=RETARDED+FACE/v=2/SID=w/l=IVS/;_ylt=A9G_RtsVaRBEpH8B1ZujzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12m6d1muk/EXP=1142012565/*-http%3A//img75.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Euniceloh/dadretarded.jpg)
Please tell me that isn't you.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on June 19, 2006, 04:23:07 PM
Please tell me that isn't you.


Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 19, 2006, 04:23:59 PM
Please tell me that isn't you.

Bahahahahahahahahahahaha!   Oh Christ... I'm in tears...  You're a good sport Mark.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:25:50 PM
Where did Matt C go?  Are you still looking for that verse in Romans?  I thought the muslim fella was going to quote it, but he wants me to cut off my arm.  Must be because Alexxx told me I have weak biceps.  ???

Here it is Matt C: Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

You can come back and play in the sand box now.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:28:01 PM
a very eloquent response, Mark. Thanks.   ::) ;D

I'm sure all the people who read this thread will be very impressed w you.
I'm not out to impress people... that would imply Pride.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: The Master on June 19, 2006, 04:29:30 PM
 I thought the muslim fella was going to quote it, but he wants me to cut off my arm.  

Are'nt you supposed to be a nice hardworking person, religious and respectful of everybody?   ::)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:34:56 PM
mark, if you go back and look at my post, I asked you some questions in a civil fashion. You respond to me in  the manner of some thickheaded high school jock. What gives? 
You are right Al-Gebra.  I was off base on that comment.  I will go change it and apologize for not using your name.  I personally disagree with your interpretation and logic with those pieces of scripture.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 19, 2006, 04:36:18 PM
I personally disagree with your interpretation and logic with those pieces of scripture.

If you have the time, I am very curious to know why.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:41:42 PM
Are'nt you supposed to be a nice hardworking person, religious and respectful of everybody?   ::)
Are you judging me?  Don't make me extend the right hand of fellowship to your jaw.

THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: JKDMan on June 19, 2006, 04:42:09 PM
Get over it already, bro.... would you please?  We all know you are envious (notice I didn't say jealous, 'cause jealousy's a sin and then I would be preaching) that you failed to show up before me.  ;D  I've seen your posts about what you want to do sexually with my wife.  Move along, you will be less frustrated.
I have no dog in this fight, but I thought this was rather amusing. Good job Mark!  :D
OK, you all can continue bashing Mark or continuing on with whatever this entertaining thread is supposed to be about...
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 04:46:13 PM
I have no dog in this fight, but I thought this was rather amusing. Good job Mark!  :D
OK, you all can continue bashing Mark or continuing on with whatever this entertaining thread is supposed to be about...
Actually I have to get some work done... go back to photoshopping pics of Kamali or something.  You see, this too is a joke... King has always been a cool dude to me.

Bye, Bye
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 04:51:26 PM
Are you judging me?  Don't make me extend the right hand of fellowship to your jaw.

THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mark,

I hope you understand I was not trying to attack you. I think you are a great bodybuilder and also respect the fact you are a great family man. I also respect your wife. I have made statements while frustrated accusing her of being  "full of shit".Although the wording probably should have been put differently I do feel that way at times.But that is not to say I am right or you are wrong those are just my opinions when it comes to a god. I do respect your wife and she seems like a wonderful woman.

I hope you do not leave the boards. We may not agree on faith but you seem like a cool person that aside. The caricature was just that. It was meant to be a light jab at the situation. i may not agree with some of the things you guys say and practise but you both seem like good people so please don't take it personal. You probably dont care I did it anyway but hey I thought I would just let ya know.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: JKDMan on June 19, 2006, 04:52:57 PM
Actually I have to get some work done... go back to photoshopping pics of Kamali or something.  You see, this too is a joke... King has always been a cool dude to me.

Bye, Bye
Ya' lost me, bro. I have nothing to do with photoshopping any Kamali pics. I was COMPLIMENTING you on your sense of humor in the above post, so I'm not sure why you're quoting me.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 05:01:22 PM
Ya' lost me, bro. I have nothing to do with photoshopping any Kamali pics. I was COMPLIMENTING you on your sense of humor in the above post, so I'm not sure why you're quoting me.
Darn it!  I peeked and now I'm a liar because I am back again.  I promise I am leaving now.  No, no I was just quoting you because you said we could go back to our banter, but I had to leave.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 19, 2006, 05:16:58 PM
Darn it!  I peeked and now I'm a liar because I am back again.  I promise I am leaving now.  No, no I was just quoting you because you said we could go back to our banter, but I had to leave.

Thanks for the response. I sent you a pm.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: JKDMan on June 19, 2006, 05:18:31 PM
Darn it!  I peeked and now I'm a liar because I am back again.  I promise I am leaving now.  No, no I was just quoting you because you said we could go back to our banter, but I had to leave.
OK, I understand.

Yep, this board is addictive...even for those of us attempting to do something productive with our lives. These threads can suck you in. ;D  ::)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on June 19, 2006, 05:31:55 PM
 Mark disagrees with the interpretation of the verse because he doesn't like what it says ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: gordiano on June 19, 2006, 05:33:37 PM
Some people are like that.  To be honest with you I simply cannot befriend people like that.  I refuse to be forced to give people what they want to hear all the time.  If you do something that I can't respect for one reason or another I WILL CALL YOU ON IT, and I couldn't care less if it's the last time we speak.  End result: I befriend a lot of very confident and secure people and the insecure ones are not a part of my life.

Even if someone is an amazing person in every other area of life, that one flaw (not being able to accept constructive criticism) is enough for me not to want to associate with that person.

Mark should really come on here and engage in open minded discussion about this topic.  What are we going to do - bite him?  Well maybe some on here would LOL.

I agree with you, man. I'm the same way. I'll tell you the truth, even if it hurts. If you get upset, that is YOUR problem, not mine.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on June 19, 2006, 05:54:41 PM
I thought it was very tacky that Matt inserted himself on whats supposed to be a reveiw of Mark Dugdales DVD , and Matt if you're so opposed to Mark taking steroids why would let him send you a DVD ? very unprofessional of you to insert your personal opinion into whats supposed to be an unbiased reveiw .
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: JKDMan on June 19, 2006, 06:13:58 PM
I thought it was very tacky that Matt inserted himself on whats supposed to be a reveiw of Mark Dugdales DVD , and Matt if you're so opposed to Mark taking steroids why would let him send you a DVD ? very unprofessional of you to insert your personal opinion into whats supposed to be an unbiased reveiw .
Matt seems to have a very personal animosity towards all organized religion, and that's cool. Well, actually when Christianity is defamed it's NOT cool with me, but there is little to gain from arguing about it on a message board where anyone can spout an opinion. Matt obviously feels he is intellectually superior to the non-enlightened masses who believe in a higher power. There seems to be many atheists on these boards. To each his own, but don't let me hear you mutter, "Oh, Jesus", or "Oh, God" when you or someone else screws something up. That's your true conciousness manifesting itself that you try so hard to deny, you hypocrites.  ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on June 19, 2006, 06:23:46 PM
I stopped arguing about religion long ago. Nowadays I just try to live a humble life, leading others to Jesus through example. The only times I argue anything is when people are misinformed and slander the Church. Otherwise I do right by the Lord and be the best Catholic I can. Throwing my beliefs at others only discourages them from the True Path.

Besides, everyone knows Christianity and Islam are the only legitimate religions  ;)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 06:35:09 PM
  Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
« Reply #74 on: Today at 04:51:26 PM » Quote Modify Remove 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Mark_Dugdale on Today at 04:41:42 PM
Are you judging me?  Don't make me extend the right hand of fellowship to your jaw.

THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Mark,

I hope you understand I was not trying to attack you. I think you are a great bodybuilder and also respect the fact you are a great family man. I also respect your wife. I have made statements while frustrated accusing her of being  "full of shit".Although the wording probably should have been put differently I do feel that way at times.But that is not to say I am right or you are wrong those are just my opinions when it comes to a god. I do respect your wife and she seems like a wonderful woman.

I hope you do not leave the boards. We may not agree on faith but you seem like a cool person that aside. The caricature was just that. It was meant to be a light jab at the situation. i may not agree with some of the things you guys say and practise but you both seem like good people so please don't take it personal. You probably dont care I did it anyway but hey I thought I would just let ya know.



Bump
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on June 19, 2006, 07:09:06 PM
Do you see people on here making similar comments about Dexter or Johnnie O. Jackson who are not as openly religious as you are? 

Those guys are totally open about their religion. Heck, the first thing Dexter did in his 2004 Ironman victory speach was thank the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Same with Johnnie O in all of his videos.

Dugdale is a standup pro. He was so friendly to me in his PM, I still feel ashamed   :-[

(http://www.jesus-passion.com/SacredHeartJesus2.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 07:14:04 PM
Matt was respectful in his post. He is human he is allowed to be critical. Just like Mark can be critical of people he believes to be sinning.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on June 19, 2006, 07:30:56 PM
Please quote what I said which you think is inappropriate.  I am not opposed to steroid use and I personally am not opposed to Mark taking them.  I'm saying that by Mark's own standards I don't see how he can come to terms with using them.  Is this clear?

If I said I was against alcohol and said this with a beer in my hand would you not question me?

I don't use laws or books to formulate my morality.  I use the concept of "consent".  If no unconsenting person is being hurt, there is no crime.

Let this be clear: I reviewed Mark's DVD and everything that came with it.  Re-reading my review, I don't see anything particularly inappropriate about it.

As for religion, I am no atheist or no religious person for that matter.  Is it safe to say that we as human beings don't have the answers to everything?  That is not to say there is no higher power and it's not to say we can just invent one to make us feel more comfortable.  It is safest for society to acknowledge that we don't know everything and use science and logic to try to fill in the blanks.  Is this stance so unreasonable?  If everyone felt as I did, years of bloodshed caused by religious wars and millions of dead would never have happened.  I think my point of view on religious matters is a quite reasonable one.

Forgive me for using science and logic to formulate what I do in my life.  Funny thing is, Christians use science and logic in every other area of their life - I just happen to take it a step further and also use it when speaking of the existence of deities.  So am I really that much different from a religious person?
post of the century, best thing i've ever read on here.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ManBearPig... on June 19, 2006, 07:57:34 PM
I'm not jealous of you walking in first into that bar that night, Mark.




























I have a boyfriend.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on June 19, 2006, 07:59:59 PM
Thanks sarcasm.  While disagreements are understandable I can't see anyone having any major qualms with anything I say on here.

I've had pros call me to discuss stuff I've written about them and I think it only takes a few minutes of speaking with me for them to understand I'm a reasonable person and not just here to hate.

I've seen pros really get roasted on here and in comparison, this one is mild.
everything i've ever read that you've written either on here or in the BB video reviews has been accurate and brutally honest in terms of poundages lifted, food eaten, bodyweight, height, financial situation, etc.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 08:00:24 PM
I'm not jealous of you walking in first into that bar that night, Mark.




























I have a boyfriend.
LOL!!!  You win, Power Rod.  I can't compete with that.  If you come to Seattle I will take you to Capital Hill and buy you a beer.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on June 19, 2006, 08:08:00 PM
LOL!!!  You win, Power Rod.  I can't compete with that.  If you come to Seattle I will take you to Capital Hill and buy you a beer.

My crystal ball says matt C will soon be reviewing a Muscle gallery title starring DigDug and powerRod.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 08:12:18 PM
Welcome back, Matt.  Your review was on point, but some of your posts got a bit off track, but hey, I agree with you.  When you put yourself out there and call yourself a Christian people are going to come after you.  Jesus himself said, "They will hate you because of me."  I'm cool with that.  I might be a hyprocrite to some of you, but I would be a bigger one if I denied my own beliefs.  I take exception to people saying I am preachy.  You ask me what I believe and I will give you an answer, but I'm not out to stone anyone with scripture or "sell" Jesus.  Everyone is free to make their own choices.  Truth be told we are all extremely religious, yourself included Matt.  I put my faith in Jesus, you put your faith in logic, reason and science.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 08:15:55 PM
My crystal ball says matt C will soon be reviewing a Muscle gallery title starring DigDug and powerRod.
240, your posts are as predictable and as smelly as my bowel movements. :-X
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 08:16:41 PM
Mark the Christian thing to do would have been to acknowledge my 2 posts I wrote to you  >:( ;)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: gordiano on June 19, 2006, 08:18:24 PM
Let me ask a couple of legitimate questions.

Mark, what if your girls were to ask about your drug use. Would you, just tell them that its okay because they're prescription? Does that justify it?

If your body is your temple, do you feel you are doing right (within yourself and your religion) by it using these potentially harmful drugs?


BTW, I respect the fact that you are here taking the time to post and read this board. I hope you will respond to my questions.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Stavios on June 19, 2006, 08:19:06 PM
Welcome back, Matt.  Your review was on point, but some of your posts got a bit off track, but hey, I agree with you.  When you put yourself out there and call yourself a Christian people are going to come after you.  Jesus himself said, "They will hate you because of me."  I'm cool with that.  I might be a hyprocrite to some of you, but I would be a bigger one if I denied my own beliefs.  I take exception to people saying I am preachy.  You ask me what I believe and I will give you an answer, but I'm not out to stone anyone with scripture or "sell" Jesus.  Everyone is free to make their own choices.  Truth be told we are all extremely religious, yourself included Matt.  I put my faith in Jesus, you put your faith in logic, reason and science.

See Mark, I knew that with an intelligent discussion everybody would agree on something  :)

Matt isn't a bad guy but he always call it like he see it and that is very respectable
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OneMoreRep on June 19, 2006, 08:21:21 PM
Mark,

Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you supplement with Testosterone?  Is it just enough to keep your body functioning normal or is it over that amount where it falls under juicing?  I ask this because if you are in need of hormone replacement therapy, then that means that your natural hormone production is probably low to begin with, so supplementation of it will only bring you right to where you need to be in orderto be healthy.  Yet, if you can get that big (Professional Bodybuilder Big) then you obviously must have more than just the needed Test running through your body.   If you are using more than your body needs, is that not a sin?  Does the thought of vanity ever trouble you?

Im trying to be neutral here Mark, I like the package you bring to stage and so Id like to be objective here..
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on June 19, 2006, 08:24:46 PM
240, your posts are as predictable and as smelly as my bowel movements. :-X

And it seems to humor comes to you about as naturally as any bodyweight over 160 ;)




nice to have ya here man!  it's a tough place but if you have the skin for it, you'll stand out from many of your peers. 
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Matt C on June 19, 2006, 08:26:05 PM
Mark, what if your girls were to ask about your drug use. Would you, just tell them that its okay because they're prescription? Does that justify it?

Christina would tell them they are treading on thin ice and they will be grounded if they bring it up again.  ;D  lol, jk.

Welcome back, Matt.  Your review was on point, but some of your posts got a bit off track, but hey, I agree with you.  When you put yourself out there and call yourself a Christian people are going to come after you.  Jesus himself said, "They will hate you because of me."  I'm cool with that.  I might be a hyprocrite to some of you, but I would be a bigger one if I denied my own beliefs.  I take exception to people saying I am preachy.  You ask me what I believe and I will give you an answer, but I'm not out to stone anyone with scripture or "sell" Jesus.  Everyone is free to make their own choices.  Truth be told we are all extremely religious, yourself included Matt.  I put my faith in Jesus, you put your faith in logic, reason and science.

Yes, I can agree we all have some form of faith.  An atheist was once debating this with another atheist and explained how we all do have faith in some manner.  The debate was somewhere on here:

http://community.livejournal.com/convert_me

When I read that community I realized how logically indefensible any organized religion is so I stopped trying to debate it.  My mother's only debate on the subject is that it makes her feel better - so be it.

As for me taking things too far sometimes - I agree.  I have no problem at all with you thinking that I am neurotic.  It is something I am well aware and I'm going to start trying hard to sort that aspect of my life out very soon.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 08:56:43 PM
Mark the Christian thing to do would have been to acknowledge my 2 posts I wrote to you  >:( ;)
Why?  Do you have a fragile ego and need some reassurance that we are friends?  Just stealing some of the language of the scholars on here.  All joking aside... it's cool.  I don't feel like I'm being attacked at all... this entire thread has been very encouraging.  :)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 09:01:11 PM
Mark,

Sorry if this has been asked already, but do you supplement with Testosterone?  Is it just enough to keep your body functioning normal or is it over that amount where it falls under juicing?  I ask this because if you are in need of hormone replacement therapy, then that means that your natural hormone production is probably low to begin with, so supplementation of it will only bring you right to where you need to be in orderto be healthy.  Yet, if you can get that big (Professional Bodybuilder Big) then you obviously must have more than just the needed Test running through your body.   If you are using more than your body needs, is that not a sin?  Does the thought of vanity ever trouble you?

Im trying to be neutral here Mark, I like the package you bring to stage and so Id like to be objective here..
My medical history is private.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 09:03:21 PM
I have no problem at all with you thinking that I am neurotic.
I don't.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 19, 2006, 09:07:32 PM
And it seems to humor comes to you about as naturally as any bodyweight over 160 ;)




nice to have ya here man!  it's a tough place but if you have the skin for it, you'll stand out from many of your peers. 
Thick skin!!!! Are you saying I'm on GH?   >:(  Actually, it's getting kind of boring hearing the same old argument over and over again.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 19, 2006, 09:08:25 PM
Why?  Do you have a fragile ego and need some reassurance that we are friends?  Just stealing some of the language of the scholars on here.  All joking aside... it's cool.  I don't feel like I'm being attacked at all... this entire thread has been very encouraging.  :)

No fragile ego amigo. I just thought I would let you know I was not trying to attack you or be a dick for no reason. The entire BB world has nothing but great things to say off you. I wanted you to know I did disagree with a few statements you and 3g made ( and took at jab at them in fun with the cartoon). But I respect you and think you are a great bodybuilder. Anyway good luck this year!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on June 19, 2006, 09:25:06 PM
Thick skin!!!! Are you saying I'm on GH?   >:(  Actually, it's getting kind of boring hearing the same old argument over and over again.

Mark.

Believe me.

No one is ever going to accuse you of being on gH.

Heck, you could tell us your natural and we'd believe you.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OneMoreRep on June 19, 2006, 09:56:30 PM
Mark,

Since you couldn't answer my previous question, why don't you tell us what the fvck is going on here?

(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/markdugdaledrivendvd/78.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on June 20, 2006, 12:14:29 AM
Wow, props to Mark.

When have we last seen a pro that was willing to debate with us here?


and by the way, it was me photoshopping the Tamali pics.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: TheGoldenPrince on June 20, 2006, 01:13:33 AM
This heated ongoing debate has shown for the umptieth time that Jesus Christ is Lord forever and ever more, and Creator of all!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on June 20, 2006, 01:18:23 AM
This heated ongoing debate has shown for the umptieth time that Jesus Christ is Lord forever and ever more, and Creator of all!

Thats a pretty hipocritical statement from someone who blasts and makes fun of people.....you make me sick. Thats much worse than insulting me.....hypocrite!! Go away and never come back....Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: natural al on June 20, 2006, 04:02:02 AM
wow...and you guys wonder why no pro's post here....unbelievable ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 05:56:16 AM
Mark,

Since you couldn't answer my previous question, why don't you tell us what the fvck is going on here?

(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/markdugdaledrivendvd/78.jpg)
Ummm... T-Bar Rows.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 20, 2006, 08:06:32 AM
wow...and you guys wonder why no pro's post here....unbelievable ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Hmmm lets tee. Lee Priest, Tony Freeman,Goerge Farah, JAY CUTLER, Mark Dugdale, Milos, Shawn and a slew of other guys. They all post on the regular. We were all respectful to Marc with this thread. We voiced opinions. The pros who post herr are the ones who dont need to have there ego stroked all day long by ass kissers. Love it or hate this board is the best of them all.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Bast175 on June 20, 2006, 08:08:14 AM
it appears Mark is performing an enema on the gentleman wearing the gray t-shirt.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on June 20, 2006, 08:19:01 AM
Quote
Love it or hate this board is the best of them all.0pt]

I got your six on this one!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 08:43:46 AM
it appears Mark is performing an enema on the gentleman wearing the gray t-shirt.
Hey, what's up Bast?  I'm a little dissappointed you did say I was looking for my SprayFlex in the corner.  You get tired of that?  So tell me what's new?  You still living with your mom and dad eatin' spagetti?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 20, 2006, 08:46:19 AM
Mark how did you get into bodybuilding? Was it through sports or just love of the gym?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on June 20, 2006, 08:47:44 AM
Hey, what's up Bast?  I'm a little dissappointed you did say I was looking for my SprayFlex in the corner.  You get tired of that?  So tell me what's new?  You still living with your mom and dad eatin' spagetti?

Nevermind it Mark. Bast is on a low carb diet and hasn't had sex in month.  ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 08:57:25 AM
Mark how did you get into bodybuilding? Was it through sports or just love of the gym?
I always enjoyed lifting weights.  I bought my first bench from my junior high science teacher.  Here is his competition record:

John Burkholder
1975
Mr America - AAU, Short, 8th
Junior Mr USA - AAU, 3rd

1976
Mr America - IFBB, Short, 4th

1977
Mr USA - IFBB, LightWeight, 1st

1978
Mr International - IFBB, LightWeight, 3rd
North American Championships - IFBB, Short, 2nd

1979
Mr International - IFBB, MiddleWeight, 8th

1980
Mr America - AAU, LightWeight, 2nd

Then my cousin married a bodybuilder who gave me John Parillo's Nutrition Manual and let me come to Alaska and train with him for a week when I was 17.

My true love was soccer, but living is the US the glory was in football.  So I played both until I severely sprained my ankle playing football and was unable to play soccer either.  I ended up in the gym.  Never had plans on being a pro, just enjoyed lifting weights.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: thegift on June 20, 2006, 09:02:19 AM
Yo Mark,

Hope you and the family are good. Call a brudda back bro!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 20, 2006, 09:21:52 AM
I always enjoyed lifting weights.  I bought my first bench from my junior high science teacher.  Here is his competition record:

John Burkholder
1975
Mr America - AAU, Short, 8th
Junior Mr USA - AAU, 3rd

1976
Mr America - IFBB, Short, 4th

1977
Mr USA - IFBB, LightWeight, 1st

1978
Mr International - IFBB, LightWeight, 3rd
North American Championships - IFBB, Short, 2nd

1979
Mr International - IFBB, MiddleWeight, 8th

1980
Mr America - AAU, LightWeight, 2nd

Then my cousin married a bodybuilder who gave me John Parillo's Nutrition Manual and let me come to Alaska and train with him for a week when I was 17.

My true love was soccer, but living is the US the glory was in football.  So I played both until I severely sprained my ankle playing football and was unable to play soccer either.  I ended up in the gym.  Never had plans on being a pro, just enjoyed lifting weights.

Did you relize your potential when you first started out? Not many guys hve what it takes to turn pro. Did you know from day one you could do it?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: FOR REAL on June 20, 2006, 09:23:11 AM
Mark if Christ ever comes back, whatcha gonna do if he catches you with your pants around your ankles and your wife injecting you in the butt with testosterone? Will you pull your pants back up? Or finish the shot first?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on June 20, 2006, 09:31:32 AM
Call a brudda back bro!

It seems when the good Lord was handing out grammar genes, Phil went back to the muscle bellies line for seconds & thirds.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: bigdumbbell on June 20, 2006, 10:24:57 AM
240, quit picking on our douggers :)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 10:37:18 AM
Mark if Christ ever comes back, whatcha gonna do if he catches you with your pants around your ankles and your wife injecting you in the butt with testosterone? Will you pull your pants back up? Or finish the shot first?
Wow, very witty post... how long did that take you to think up?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: gordiano on June 20, 2006, 10:39:13 AM
Wow, very witty post... how long did that take you to think up?

Answer the question........
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 10:54:23 AM
I always hear that Christians are self-righteous and judgemental.  Getbig is like coming to a bible study.  ;)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on June 20, 2006, 11:07:28 AM
Anyone who dismisses Christianity becuase of a passage in the Old testament is a total nad. We spend most of our time reading the NEW Testament, not the Torah
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on June 20, 2006, 11:11:49 AM
Looking at Christianity from a sociological perspective it has sold so well because it promises hell for the non-believers and an eternity of bliss for the believers.

Would it have been as popular if non-believers just simply died and believers were given a bran muffin?

Its not about playing for a prize, its about taking responsibility for your actions. If you choose to live a life of evil, what do you expect to happen?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 11:54:08 AM
That's what's so great about being an intellectual grown-up. No cowardly fears of a sky-God torturing us for eternity for disobeying his petty commands.

But let's get down to brass tacks. You're the one who chose to preach this Jeebus nonsense on your video. If the better adjusted among us like to amuse ourselves by ridiculing your childish beliefs, well it's nothing that He didn't tell you to expect.

"JEEBUS IS COMING TO JUDGE YOU. SAY YOU LUV JEEBUS OR YOU'LL BE REALLY SORRY."


First, you have seen my DVD?  Second, are you saying I should hide my beliefs because they are not the same as yours?  I would like to now present you with the award for.... (drum roll) ....for the Intellectual Grown-Up of the Year.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 20, 2006, 12:18:23 PM
Jeebus, who died before the gospel writers [the ones who made the final cut anyway] had a chance to decide what shit they were going to make up about him

monster da vinci code education. ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 20, 2006, 01:41:16 PM
I always hear that Christians are self-righteous and judgemental.  Getbig is like coming to a bible study.  ;)

We're not so judgemental.  It's sort of like the Divinci Code, you have to read between the lines.  Oh, and before I forget... what do you recommend I do to develop massive traps?

(http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=RETARDED+FACE/v=2/SID=w/l=IVS/;_ylt=A9G_RtsVaRBEpH8B1ZujzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12m6d1muk/EXP=1142012565/*-http%3A//img75.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Euniceloh/dadretarded.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 01:48:56 PM
We're not so judgemental.  It's sort of like the Divinci Code, you have to read between the lines.  Oh, and before I forget... what do you recommend I do to develop massive traps?

(http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=RETARDED+FACE/v=2/SID=w/l=IVS/;_ylt=A9G_RtsVaRBEpH8B1ZujzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12m6d1muk/EXP=1142012565/*-http%3A//img75.photobucket.com/albums/v229/Euniceloh/dadretarded.jpg)
Are you stoned or just sleepy?  Either take a nap or lay off the weed and then we can address your traps.  ;)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on June 20, 2006, 01:57:53 PM
First, you have seen my DVD?  Second, are you saying I should hide my beliefs because they are not the same as yours?  I would like to now present you with the award for.... (drum roll) ....for the Intellectual Grown-Up of the Year.

You like me! You really like me!

But seriously, your two challenges seem to cancel each other out. If your beliefs are featured on the DVD [let's say, a scene of you and your wife reading that book of children's Bible stories she reviewed on Amazon] - and your second question seems to imply that they are - what difference would it make whether or not I eyeballed it personally? [For the record: no, I haven't - though I respect the physique and I'm sure the disc is a fine consumer value.]

Please don't mistake my admittedly juvenile and mean-spriited ridiculing of your beliefs as some argument that you shouldn't express them. Jeebus said you should spread the Good Word, so you'd be negligent if you didn't. But inasmuch as the Christofascists are making my country an increasingly crappy place to live,  I resent all the promoters of their agenda - even the humble footsoldiers like yourself.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: The Master on June 20, 2006, 02:31:06 PM
Hey, what's up Bast?  I'm a little dissappointed you did say I was looking for my SprayFlex in the corner.  You get tired of that?  So tell me what's new?  You still living with your mom and dad eatin' spagetti you guido italian mutha? Tell GinnytheGino I said HI


I don't know why, but I'm starting to enjoy that weird humor of yours ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 02:49:54 PM
You like me! You really like me!

But seriously, your two challenges seem to cancel each other out. If your beliefs are featured on the DVD [let's say, a scene of you and your wife reading that book of children's Bible stories she reviewed on Amazon] - and your second question seems to imply that they are - what difference would it make whether or not I eyeballed it personally? [For the record: no, I haven't - though I respect the physique and I'm sure the disc is a fine consumer value.]

Please don't mistake my admittedly juvenile and mean-spriited ridiculing of your beliefs as some argument that you shouldn't express them. Jeebus said you should spread the Good Word, so you'd be negligent if you didn't. But inasmuch as the Christofascists are making my country an increasingly crappy place to live,  I resent all the promoters of their agenda - even the humble footsoldiers like yourself.
Fair enough.  I was reading The Seven Silly Eater's in the DVD to my daughters... it's about 7 kids who make a cake for their mom's birthday.  Yes, it was a test of my faith to read a book concerning cake baking while dieting.

Wow, you tracked down my wife's review of a Christian children's book on Amazon... that almost qualifies as stalking.  :)

I consulted Jesus on this thread and He said, "RACA!"
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on June 20, 2006, 03:18:59 PM
Please quote what I said which you think is inappropriate.  I am not opposed to steroid use and I personally am not opposed to Mark taking them.  I'm saying that by Mark's own standards I don't see how he can come to terms with using them.  Is this clear?

If I said I was against alcohol and said this with a beer in my hand would you not question me?

I don't use laws or books to formulate my morality.  I use the concept of "consent".  If no unconsenting person is being hurt, there is no crime.

Let this be clear: I reviewed Mark's DVD and everything that came with it.  Re-reading my review, I don't see anything particularly inappropriate about it.

As for religion, I am no atheist or no religious person for that matter.  Is it safe to say that we as human beings don't have the answers to everything?  That is not to say there is no higher power and it's not to say we can just invent one to make us feel more comfortable.  It is safest for society to acknowledge that we don't know everything and use science and logic to try to fill in the blanks.  Is this stance so unreasonable?  If everyone felt as I did, years of bloodshed caused by religious wars and millions of dead would never have happened.  I think my point of view on religious matters is a quite reasonable one.

Forgive me for using science and logic to formulate what I do in my life.  Funny thing is, Christians use science and logic in every other area of their life - I just happen to take it a step further and also use it when speaking of the existence of deities.  So am I really that much different from a religious person?

What I think is kind of odd is how much you add yourself into the reveiw of someones else DVD more Dugdale and less Canning  :P
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on June 20, 2006, 03:21:46 PM
Wow, you tracked down my wife's review of a Christian children's book on Amazon... that almost qualifies as stalking.  :)

In another thread, someone described your wife as a "religious nut" - or some such. Not having been reported in Flex, this was the first I'd heard of it - so I Googled her to see if I was missing something. The Amazon review was on the second page of results.

I'm on record elsewhere as admiring your wife's derriere - but you don't have to worry about finding any boiled rabbits on your stove.  :)

(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lonnie2bbig.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Al-Gebra on June 20, 2006, 03:23:06 PM
What I think is kind of odd is how much you add yourself into the reveiw of someones else DVD more Dugdale and less Canning  :P

when you're done w Matt, can you please e-mail ebert w some suggestions? . . . sometimes that fcuker's reviews are more about himself than the movie.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on June 20, 2006, 03:23:37 PM
Yeah but according to Christian morality, Hitler could have been born again during the last year of his life and be in heaven to this day.  Also, Gandhi is in hell right now.

This system isn't too appealing to me.  :-\

Hitler couldn't be allowed in heaven he commited suicide thats another no..no !!! and a person who commits muder can be forgiven by Jesus if he truly is remorsefull and honest .
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on June 20, 2006, 03:29:44 PM
It's good to see a pro who is actually fulfilled in other areas of his life outside the bodybuilding stage.

I couldn't agree more. His demented religious beliefs aside, Mark is a true champion in this respect.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: trinitymuscle on June 20, 2006, 03:39:07 PM
who cares if mark is a christian and how he lives his life? who is anybody hear to say that all christians are evil or crazy? someone here even stated something about teaching kids christianity. yeah, that would be awful. i'd hate to live in a world that tried to follow what the bible says. i'd much rather live in a world of people who murder for no reason, pedophiles and etc. it is known that mark is a christian. never has it been stated that mark is Jesus or perfect or anything. you guys will try and tear down anyone you want to. i have never seen mark come across negatively so why jump all over him? obviously everything you guys do in your own lives is how everyone else should live. have fun.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on June 20, 2006, 04:15:15 PM
never has it been stated that mark is Jesus

Actually, Big Poppa started a thread called "Mark Dugdale is Jesus" but the moderator removed it.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Mark_Dugdale on June 20, 2006, 04:59:00 PM
Actually, Big Poppa started a thread called "Mark Dugdale is Jesus" but the moderator removed it.
Really?  Time out, I never said my home was heaven, that I came to earth as fully man and fully God, lived a sinless life, died on a cross for those I chose before the foundation of the world, rose from the dead - conquering sin, satan, and death, and hung out with a few hundred people before assending back into heaven.  You must have me confused with someone else.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: jeffrey. on June 20, 2006, 05:04:11 PM
honestly i couldn't care less if mark believes in god or not........this is a bodybuilding forum isn't it????
what's your next show mark?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Naked4Jesus on June 20, 2006, 05:07:34 PM
Really?  Time out, I never said my home was heaven, that I came to earth as fully man and fully God, lived a sinless life, died on a cross for those I chose before the foundation of the world, rose from the dead - conquering sin, satan, and death, and hung out with a few hundred people before assending back into heaven.  You must have me confused with someone else.

What?!!! I bought into that whole Mark Dugale is Jesus thread!   Christ, you mean I dropped my pants for nothing??!!  Say it ain't so Mark!   :'(
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on June 20, 2006, 05:18:09 PM
I never said my home was heaven, that I came to earth as fully man and fully God, lived a sinless life, died on a cross for those I chose before the foundation of the world, rose from the dead - conquering sin, satan, and death, and hung out with a few hundred people before assending back into heaven.

Hmm. I could have sworn I read that someplace. Maybe Greg Valentino's column.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on June 20, 2006, 05:46:43 PM
who cares if mark is a christian and how he lives his life? who is anybody hear to say that all christians are evil or crazy? someone here even stated something about teaching kids christianity. yeah, that would be awful. i'd hate to live in a world that tried to follow what the bible says. i'd much rather live in a world of people who murder for no reason, pedophiles and etc. it is known that mark is a christian. never has it been stated that mark is Jesus or perfect or anything. you guys will try and tear down anyone you want to. i have never seen mark come across negatively so why jump all over him? obviously everything you guys do in your own lives is how everyone else should live. have fun.
i totaly agree with this post, from what i've seen of Mark on here he conducts himself with respect and i respect him for that, he's also a great bodybuilder.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: body88 on June 20, 2006, 06:03:53 PM
Really?  Time out, I never said my home was heaven, that I came to earth as fully man and fully God, lived a sinless life, died on a cross for those I chose before the foundation of the world, rose from the dead - conquering sin, satan, and death, and hung out with a few hundred people before assending back into heaven.  You must have me confused with someone else.

Mark have you ever had a chance to read the Devinci Code....... Or Angels and Demons. If so what was your take on them? Also what nationality is Dugdale?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Hypertrophy on June 20, 2006, 06:47:16 PM
i totaly agree with this post, from what i've seen of Mark on here he conducts himself with respect and i respect him for that, he's also a great bodybuilder.

Same here, Sarcasm. Dugdale comes on these boards, takes the abuse and gives it right back, but with a much kinder twist. I think the sport would do a whole lot better with more guys like Dugdale than guys like Titus, LOL.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: trinitymuscle on June 20, 2006, 07:49:16 PM
i got to meet mark this year at the arnold and thought he was a very friendly and cool guy. i've also met non christians who i thought the same thing about. i don't put too much thought into ones thoughts and beliefs but more into what kind of person they are and how they act and treat others. christian or non. now i understand where some people come from when then talk down about christians. just remember to not judge every christian on a couple of bad ones that you've met.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: gordiano on June 20, 2006, 07:52:03 PM
i got to meet mark this year at the arnold and thought he was a very friendly and cool guy. i've also met non christians who i thought the same thing about. i don't put too much thought into ones thoughts and beliefs but more into what kind of person they are and how they act and treat others. christian or non. now i understand where some people come from when then talk down about christians. just remember to not judge every christian on a couple of bad ones that you've met.

Personally, I don't judge on a couple of bad ones......its the fact that all the religious people I've known are bad.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: bigdumbbell on June 20, 2006, 07:53:16 PM
not all christians are bad...just most and dug is nice
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 18, 2006, 12:33:14 PM
not all christians are bad...just most and dug is nice

To some degree, all Christians are bad.  To some degrees, all of us are.  A Christian realizes (should realize) that on their own they will make moral mistakes.  One of the common mistakes Christians make (me included), is being judgmental.  We have to constantly realize that we are no better than anyone else.  The only benefit we have (no merit to ourselves) is that we have a relationship with God that can transform us.

I truly believe that the world would be a far better off if we Christians would emulate our Christ (Jesus). Unfortunately we are spending too much time following "conservative" agendas and radical fundamentalists.  Above all things a Christian ought to love those around us.

I've had a few brief dialogs with Mark.  What I see in him is a man who genuinely loves his family and pursues Christlikeness. 
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on July 18, 2006, 12:48:05 PM
What I see in him is a man who genuinely loves his family and pursues Christlikeness. 

WWJB

"What Would Jesus Bench?"
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 22, 2006, 09:04:07 AM
WWJB

"What Would Jesus Bench?"

The weight of all of the sin of mankind.  Now that is heavy!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 22, 2006, 10:26:49 AM
The weight of all of the sin of mankind.  Now that is heavy!

 Hahaha ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: hardest core on July 22, 2006, 10:04:58 PM
What you must understand Oak......is that some people are better than others.............it's a fact. Visit a maximum security prison sometime. My brother worked in one for several years, There are "unfixable" people.....the worst of the worst, they simply cannot be rehabilitated. And for that matter, why should these certain type of individuals be "rehabbed" on our dime? Someone messes with my son, your family............do you want him rehabilitated? There is a significant difference in people. People like the Dugdale's, who basically have it all...health, happiness, good looks, money, great family, great careers...a great support system...and they TREAT everyone like they are no different from them. That is my definition of exceptional.

People are jealous of success........monetaril y or career wise. Most of us are competitive by nature. The idiot's that bag on Mark are simply jealous....plain and simple. I know him.........and he really is a genuine guy and a class act.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 12:18:02 PM
Mark Dugdale, here is a little food for thought...

1) The conversation between Nicodemus & Jesus is an invention (keep in mind John 3:16, the cornerstone of Christianity, is within this portion of the text too). Why?

Jesus says "You must be born from above." (2:22)
Nicodemus misunderstands him to mean "You must be born again."

This makes perfect sense in GREEK, since the word for "from above" also means "again."
However, it makes NO contexual sense in ARAMAIC, the actual language Jesus spoke.

Case in point ... the conversation never took place.
It should be attributed to the creativity of an anonymous Greek scribe.

Many of the "non-scholarly" Biblical translations change this around completely in order to try to circumvent a glaringly obvious problem. It just goes to show that Christians have no qualms with forgery, unauthorized license to edit, and every/any subversive means of trying to keep a rapidly unraveling lie in-tact.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Most of the Pauline epistles are documented pseudepigrapha...
... meaning, the apostle Paul DID NOT ACTUALLY WRITE many of the epistles.

Every serious scholar is well aware that the vocabulary characteristic of the epistles was more modern than it was in Paul's lifetime.

Its the equivalent of trying to claim a document that contains phrases like
"Damn homie that n*gga got jacked" or "he pwned that n00b" was written in 1700.  ::)

The vocabulary alone can be used to invalidate claims of authenticity.
The style of Greek present in the majority of the epistles simply wasn't present until well after Paul's lifetime.

By the way, 2 Thessalonians, Colossians, Ephesians, 1 & 2 Timothy, AND Titus were not written by Paul, though quite clearly claim to be in the introduction of the text. I don't know about you, but I'm not about to take stock in a theology purported as truth where the author not only lies about his identity, but assumes the identity of a famous, prominent, historical apostle.

That said, I can cite a plethora of other reasons attesting to the fallacy of this myth that is popularly known as Christianity.
(Feel free to message me privately or inquire right here in the thread for details).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are an outstanding athlete Dugdale, and fortunately, you can continue to inject anabolic steroids with a conscience as clear as day - since a Creator that doesn't exist and a lunatic who believed that the kingdom of God, accompanied with the shaking of the Earth and the falling of the stars, would come to Earth in the lifetime of his apostles (LOL ... nearly 2000 years ago) certainly won't hold you accountable for your actions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(sidenote:)

By the way, the "anti-christ" was Nero...
666 was the numerical value of Nero's name.

When "Caesar Nero" is spelled in Hebrew letters (Nero becomes Neron), ihe numerical total equates to 666. If the name is spelled without the "n" at the end, simply "Nero", the number is 616, since 'n' is worth 50 in the Hebrew numerical system.

As I'm sure you know, some of the ancient Greek manuscripts cite 616 instead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't state this to incriminate, I state this to educate.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: ribonucleic on July 24, 2006, 12:32:49 PM
What you must understand Oak......is that some people are better than others.............it's a fact. Visit a maximum security prison sometime. My brother worked in one for several years, There are "unfixable" people.....the worst of the worst, they simply cannot be rehabilitated. And for that matter, why should these certain type of individuals be "rehabbed" on our dime? Someone messes with my son, your family............do you want him rehabilitated? There is a significant difference in people. People like the Dugdale's, who basically have it all...health, happiness, good looks, money, great family, great careers...a great support system...and they TREAT everyone like they are no different from them. That is my definition of exceptional.

People are jealous of success........monetaril y or career wise. Most of us are competitive by nature. The idiot's that bag on Mark are simply jealous....plain and simple. I know him.........and he really is a genuine guy and a class act.

1. "Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me."

2. "It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Both statements Jeebus-approved.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 12:38:33 PM
Organized religion has been the bane of humanity.  It has caused more destruction and bloodshed than literally any other factor.

Time to start thinking using logic and science and not with fairie tales that bring us comfort.  Ironically, the world would be more god like if we did just that.

hahaha you atheists - sitting there smilling smugly like you've got everything figured out

you can't balme organized religion for everything because of the actions of a few members with evil in their hearts

go to mass - it'll do you more good than sitting at home wrapped in cynisism
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 12:56:54 PM
I used to be a passionate Christian ... really.

I whole-heartedly believed that the Old Testament could attest to the authenticity of Jesus Christ. After all, Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies in the Old Testament, including a relatively detailed account of his death (hands and feet pierced) prophecied 700 years before crucifixion was even invented by the Persians!

However, I subsequently discovered that Biblical text has no integrity.
Much of it is pseudepigrapha. If the author is not authentic, then how the hell can I believe in some of the intangibles like the creation account, the resurrection, etc?

Idiot Christians!
"Hi ... like ... I'm not really the apostle Paul ... but I'm going to pretend to be so my personal values will be published as law in the canon ... and of course you must believe every f*cking thing I tell you in this epistle or you are disobeying Christ!"



Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 01:05:53 PM
As always, well said Matt C. =]
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Dredlock Rasta on July 24, 2006, 01:22:31 PM
Does God command something because it is right, or is something right because God commands it? Answer that and you'll figure out the streets.  ???
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 01:30:12 PM
Does God command something because it is right, or is something right because God commands it? Answer that and you'll figure out the streets.  ???

Must be the latter.

Implying "God commands what is right" would be an error since it indicates that God is not sovereign. There would be this outlying principle entirely outside of his realm of jurisdiction.
The monotheistic God MUST be all-powerful.

So something is right since God commands it, which makes Christianity all the more "petty".

Assuming though, that the monotheistic God is also all-knowing, then his command MUST be right since He is infallible by necessity. So basically, its really both AND neither, simultaneously.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Dredlock Rasta on July 24, 2006, 01:34:16 PM
Must be the latter.

Implying "God commands what is right" would be an error since it indicates that God is not sovereign. There would be this outlying principle entirely outside of his realm of jurisdiction.
The monotheistic God MUST be all-powerful.

So something is right since God commands it, which makes Christianity all the more "petty".

Assuming though, that the monotheistic God is also all-knowing, then his command MUST be right since He is infallible by necessity. So basically, its really both AND neither, simultaneously.


What? It is eithier or. First you said the latter, then you said both and neither? Which is it?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on July 24, 2006, 01:34:45 PM
Must be the latter.

Implying "God commands what is right" would be an error since it indicates that God is not sovereign. There would be this outlying principle entirely outside of his realm of jurisdiction.
The monotheistic God MUST be all-powerful.

So something is right since God commands it, which makes Christianity all the more "petty".

Assuming though, that the monotheistic God is also all-knowing, then his command MUST be right since He is infallible by necessity. So basically, its really both AND neither, simultaneously.

Haha, i know why i stick to buddhism...  ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 01:44:25 PM
Haha, i know why i stick to buddhism...  ;D

Desire Is The Root Of All Suffering ... great stuff!  ;D

I tried to convince myself of that on my drive to the ER with a split lip and broken facial bones. It Didn't work  :-\

Altogether though, I think its a great philosophy, since the only thing we can really control is our perception / reaction to external events. We will never be able to control the outside forces themselves.

Personally, I'm into Immanuel Kant these days.
Morality is in the very sense of "ought", not what is to be "ought'ed"
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on July 24, 2006, 01:52:40 PM
Desire Is The Root Of All Suffering ... great stuff!  ;D

I tried to convince myself of that on my drive to the ER with a split lip and broken facial bones. It Didn't work  :-\

Altogether though, I think its a great philosophy, since the only thing we can really control is our perception / reaction to external events. We will never be able to control the outside forces themselves.

Personally, I'm into Immanuel Kant these days.
Morality is in the very sense of "ought", not what is to be "ought'ed"

Kant, eh?
Never liked kant. Schopenhauer is interesting also, and Heidegger.
I read nearly all works of Nietzsche, and this is really entertaining. I love 'the anti chirist' i read that 5 times i think.
Zarathustra is great too.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: DK II on July 24, 2006, 04:17:23 PM
I think the really bad part about christianity is that it's monotheistic.

That means, apart from the catholic church, all people go to hell.
Only christians are good pepole that can be saved.
All others are evil sinners.

You know what? If there are only these bible reading lame asses in paradise, i'd love to go to hell and party with the other buddhists and shintoists and hindus and whoever wants to party with us.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on July 24, 2006, 04:22:06 PM

The September 11th terrorists felt their faith was just as justified and true as countless Christians consider their faith to be.  The one thing that both have in common is that their teachings are unproven and based on "faith".

you're making the assumption that you know who the 911 terrorists were...
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 04:23:09 PM
Good discussion guys.

I wish parents would just let their kids determine for themselves whether or not there is a god.  If from birth I brainwashed my kids into believing that all black people were evil and needed to be exterminated, my kids have a good chance of believing it - hell, it's happened before.

Indoctrinating your children in any manner at all is wrong.  You might say that a Christian couple are good people and their children will probably turn out ok, but that isn't the point.  The second you stray from reason and logic is the second you open the door to all kinds of horrible things.

The September 11th terrorists felt their faith was just as justified and true as countless Christians consider their faith to be.  The one thing that both have in common is that their teachings are unproven and based on "faith".

Plus, let's not pretend Christian morality is in every way moral.  I hate seeing these Christian leaders who hate gay people go on that "we love gay people" and all this crap.  I just want to say "shut up and admit you are prejudice you homophobe".


   Parents like to brutally brainwash their kids because they know that what they are saying has a good chance of not being taken seriously by a logical and freethinking adult mind. It takes much effort to overcome the brainwashing, but I'm glad that I have.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on July 24, 2006, 04:26:52 PM
Conspiracy theory?

2/3 of Americans do not believe the theory put forth by the govt.

I would have thought that worldwide, at least that many people would have seen the holes in the story.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 04:30:48 PM
Same here.  My mom has a hard time accepting that I have a better and more fulfilled life than the majority of Christians she knows.  She just doesn't get how I can be so happy and passionate about life despite not following her god.  This is exactly how Christianity is contagious because it gets people to think like she does where Christianity is the only way to go.

Conspiracy theory?


  Exactly. It convinces people that their lives are miserable because they don't have Jesus, when in fact, there are many areas of their lives that they could improve and they don't need religion in any way, shape or form. There are also the people who just "want to be safe." Christianity's greatest victory is using its doomday myths to inspire halfhearted allegiance from these people  ::)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240 is Back on July 24, 2006, 04:32:34 PM
How do you as an American abide by the law when your government does not?

After the liberal party conservative scandal, I've decided I make my own moral system.  I would BE IN JAIL if I laundered the millions of dollars that Paul Martin did - yet he is immune to the law for some reason??

I'm sorry, but if my government can't set an example in following law and doing only what they consider to be ok, I will also ignore law and do only what I consider to be ok.

It just so happens that for the most part my moral system coincides well with the legal one.

there are actually a new generation of politicians running for office who are calling for a re-opening of the 911 investigation. 

change will come, but only as time allows it.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 04:40:14 PM
Then when the Christians die they realize it was the Muslim god who was the correct one and there they are, burning in hell for eternity.

Oh snap.

Pascal's wager anyone?  ::)


  LOL....Pascal's wager illustrates the lack of reasoning ability that has always been present in humanity  :-\
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 04:43:38 PM
Then when the Christians die they realize it was the Muslim god who was the correct one and there they are, burning in hell for eternity.

Oh snap.

Pascal's wager anyone?  ::)

Matt FYI Christians & Muslims believe in the same God and they believe in Jesus as well , but thier take on the whole story is different .
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 04:48:05 PM
Matt FYI Christians & Muslims believe in the same God and they believe in Jesus as well , but thier take on the whole story is different .


  Actually, I've heard many Christians say that they don't worship the same God that Muslims do. Do they actually know what God they are worshipping? Do they get a receipt after praying so they can find out for sure? :D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 04:52:10 PM

  Actually, I've heard many Christians say that they don't worship the same God that Muslims do. Do they actually know what God they are worshipping? Do they get a receipt after praying so they can find out for sure? :D

See that is part of the problem Christians think their take is better than the Catholics and the Muslims and the Greek Orthodox , the Jews only follow the old testament and don't buy into the ' new ' one The Christians buy into the old & new testament . everyone loves the same God but hate everyone else .
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 04:54:10 PM
See that is part of the problem Christians think their take is better than the Catholics and the Muslims and the Greek Orthodox , the Jews only follow the old testament and don't buy into the ' new ' one The Christians buy into the old & new testament . everyone loves the same God but hate everyone else .


    Are you saying that Allah answers the prayers of Christians who say that they don't worship him??? Blasphemy! :D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 05:02:57 PM

    Are you saying that Allah answers the prayers of Christians who say that they don't worship him??? Blasphemy! :D

This is what I'm saying .  ;)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 05:30:52 PM
Yes, so going to hell is a matter of semantics lol.

Hell , like heaven is a story in a book written by men .
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 05:33:18 PM
Hell isn't about scaring people into becoming Christians, it's about personal responsibility.

We have the free will to choose between right and wrong. Our actions are our own and they have consequences, both good and bad.

Heaven and Hell are less about reward vs. punishment; they are the natural consequences of one's choices in life
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 05:39:27 PM
Hell isn't about scaring people into becoming Christians, it's about personal responsibility.

We have the free will to choose between right and wrong. Our actions are our own and they have consequences, both good and bad.

Heaven and Hell are less about reward vs. punishment; they are the natural consequences of one's choices in life


 LOL....natural would be going into the ground and decomposing. Actions having consequences doesn't imply that heaven and hell are reasonable outcomes in light of said actions.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 05:50:57 PM
You claim that you do not beleive in God because you have no "proof". You assert that because you cannot see, hear, or feel God he doesn't exist.

Consider love. You can't see love in the same way you can see your computer screen in front of you. That, however, does not prove love is nonexistent. It's possible to see the effects of love. You can see a couple together who love each other and in a child, the product of their love. You can feel love for another. Love is a complicated concept that cannot be easily defined nor explained - you just know when its there.

The same is true of God. Though you cannot see Him directly, you can see his work. The world is full of beauty and good. From a benign sunset to the miracle of birth, God can be seen everwhere. And yes, if you open yourself to Him you can feel the presense of the Lord inside you. You just have to believe.


And what prevents you from simply having faith? Pride? Anger? Fear?

Though it may mean little to you, I will pray for all of you - my misguided Getbig friends.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 05:57:32 PM

 LOL....natural would be going into the ground and decomposing. Actions having consequences doesn't imply that heaven and hell are reasonable outcomes in light of said actions.

Brother LuciousFox - lost the Way have you?

Jesus is the Light and the Way to Salvation. If you do not believe in Him then you are turning your back on the Lord. When someone's back is turned, how can they see the Light and be saved by it? Rather, all they see is darkness and despair.

(http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sg/ridgeway/33%20Divine%20light.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 06:02:54 PM
You claim that you do not beleive in God because you have no "proof". You assert that because you cannot see, hear, or feel God he doesn't exist.

Consider love. You can't see love in the same way you can see your computer screen in front of you. That, however, does not prove love is nonexistent. It's possible to see the effects of love. You can see a couple together who love each other and in a child, the product of their love. You can feel love for another. Love is a complicated concept that cannot be easily defined nor explained - you just know when its there.

The same is true of God. Though you cannot see Him directly, you can see his work. The world is full of beauty and good. From a benign sunset to the miracle of birth, God can be seen everwhere. And yes, if you open yourself to Him you can feel the presense of the Lord inside you. You just have to believe.


And what prevents you from simply having faith? Pride? Anger? Fear?

Though it may mean little to you, I will pray for all of you - my misguided Getbig friends.

Why is it that when someone doesn't share your ' faith ' its out of pride , anger or fear ? why can't it be out of intelligence , commonsense , and honesty? why is there a negative connotation attached?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 06:31:03 PM
Why is it that when someone doesn't share your ' faith ' its out of pride , anger or fear ? why can't it be out of intelligence , commonsense , and honesty? why is there a negative connotation attached?

Ask yourself: what truly prevents you from having faith?

Often people are too proud to accept that there is something higher than them. It's difficult for some to concede that they are not the most important person in the universe. Pride prevents people from from putting aside their desires and putting God's will above their own. It is selfishness, greed, and pride that drive people to commiting acts of evil. Their pride won't allow them to surrender themselves to the Lord and allow Him to work through them.

Anger prevents a lot of people from believing in an all loving all knowing God. The evils and injustice's they see in the world angers them. They declare: "How can there be a God when the world is such an aweful place? If God was so great, he would stop suffereing and end all that is bad once and for all." Perhaps they were molested as a child or had a traumatic thing happen to them. "If God existed, why would he let this happen to me?" Thus all of their anger that has built up has also built up a wall between them and God. This blocks their path to him and prevents them from having faith.

Fear is another emotion that can prevent people from having faith. They are afraid that if God truly exists, they're perception on reality will be torn asunder. Some people are afraid to accept Jesus because it is more comfortable to deny him and live a life of sin. Having faith and doing the Lord's work are very difficult. Perhaps some are just afraid of getting their hands dirty.


When you accept Jesus, you cast aside all your negativity, all of your despair, and all of your pain. When you allow Him to enter your life and act according to His way, only then can you be truly fullfilled.

Your so-called "intelligence", "commonsense", and "honesty" are nothing more than words you use to deny what is in your heart. Jesus and the love of God is inside each and every one of you. You just have to choose to release it. You have to have faith.


(http://community.dcmag.co.uk/photos/dave_morriss_gallery/images/122977/500x263.aspx)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 06:35:54 PM
You claim that you do not beleive in God because you have no "proof". You assert that because you cannot see, hear, or feel God he doesn't exist.

Consider love. You can't see love in the same way you can see your computer screen in front of you. That, however, does not prove love is nonexistent. It's possible to see the effects of love. You can see a couple together who love each other and in a child, the product of their love. You can feel love for another. Love is a complicated concept that cannot be easily defined nor explained - you just know when its there.

The same is true of God. Though you cannot see Him directly, you can see his work. The world is full of beauty and good. From a benign sunset to the miracle of birth, God can be seen everwhere. And yes, if you open yourself to Him you can feel the presense of the Lord inside you. You just have to believe.


And what prevents you from simply having faith? Pride? Anger? Fear?

Though it may mean little to you, I will pray for all of you - my misguided Getbig friends.


   Here is where you are wrong. You are saying that because the feeling of love exists, there must be some external cause, and you are also applying this to feelings of God. We are not denying that these feelings exist, we are saying that we don't believe that some god is the reason for them.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 24, 2006, 06:37:05 PM
Ask yourself: what truly prevents you from having faith?

Often people are too proud to accept that there is something higher than them. It's difficult for some to concede that they are not the most important person in the universe. Pride prevents people from from putting aside their desires and putting God's will above their own. It is selfishness, greed, and pride that drive people to commiting acts of evil. Their pride won't allow them to surrender themselves to the Lord and allow Him to work through them.

Anger prevents a lot of people from believing in an all loving all knowing God. The evils and injustice's they see in the world angers them. They declare: "How can there be a God when the world is such an aweful place? If God was so great, he would stop suffereing and end all that is bad once and for all." Perhaps they were molested as a child or had a traumatic thing happen to them. "If God existed, why would he let this happen to me?" Thus all of their anger that has built up has also built up a wall between them and God. This blocks their path to him and prevents them from having faith.

Fear is another emotion that can prevent people from having faith. They are afraid that if God truly exists, they're perception on reality will be torn asunder. Some people are afraid to accept Jesus because it is more comfortable to deny him and live a life of sin. Having faith and doing the Lord's work are very difficult. Perhaps some are just afraid of getting their hands dirty.


When you accept Jesus, you cast aside all your negativity, all of your despair, and all of your pain. When you allow Him to enter your life and act according to His way, only then can you be truly fullfilled.

Your so-called "intelligence", "commonsense", and "honesty" are nothing more than words you use to deny what is in your heart. Jesus and the love of God is inside each and every one of you. You just have to choose to release it. You have to have faith.


(http://community.dcmag.co.uk/photos/dave_morriss_gallery/images/122977/500x263.aspx)




   Meltdown! ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 06:59:43 PM
Ask yourself: what truly prevents you from having faith?

How about this?

1) A key passage in Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus doesn't make sense in Aramaic.
However, it makes perfect sense in GREEK, so scholars acknowledge that Jesus did not really have this conversation, rather it was some the product of the imagination of some Greek scribe.

2) Several books in the Bible (particularly the Pauline epistles) are not really written by the alleged author. Its called pseudepigrapha, writing under a famous author's name, in this case the apostle Paul. How do I trust the content of the Bible if the authors are perfectly comfortable assuming another's identity??

3) The Bible is two-faced ... even the New Testament.
It supports racism, slavery, misogyny ... unacceptable in my eyes under any circumstance.
Read 2 Timothy if you don't believe me. Slaves were the physical property of their masters, so the master had every right to abuse them sexually. Even Abraham had sex slaves.

4) Matthew and Luke have entirely different, completely irreconcilable birth narratives.

... couple that with the fact that Homo sapiens is really a primate (since our genetic makeup is 99% synonymous to the others), abiogenesis has been documented, the Earth is billions of years old, not 6000 ... and lastly, the useless slaughter of innocent animals to appease an invincible God (speciesism).

No thank you. Even IF God existed, which he doesn't, I would not accept his salvation.
"Man created in God's image" ... what a carnal notion  ::)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 07:02:34 PM
I'm not an atheist.  More of a rationalist if anything.

I don't believe in a god for the same reason you don't believe in Santa Claus.  Sure maybe he exists some place or somewhere but show me the proof first.  You wouldn't be expected to believe in Santa without proof and I don't believe in a god without proof.  But I'm not saying one doesn't exist either.  Here's something: I don't know.  And neither do you or anyone else for that matter and no matter how much you want it to be true, it doesn't make it true.  But it doesn't make it untrue either.  But we don't know and that is logical reality.

I think it's funny that religious people use logic and rationality to formulate all their worldview EXCEPT for religion.  Seems like a double standard to me.

Here is a good quote:

"I contend we are both atheists— I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you reject all other gods, you will understand why I reject yours as well." - Stephen F. Roberts


Living on the fence is no way to go through life.

I admit I don't know everthing, I don't have all the answers, and I don't have all the proof. It's impossible to have all of these things.

Once you admit that, the last thing you need to bridge the gap between what you know and what you don't know is to have faith.

Sometimes you have to look inward and discover what truly prevents you from taking that leap.

(http://www.picturesofjesus4you.com/images/pictures_of_jesus.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 07:09:09 PM
I don't understand how everything and anything people don't understand is readily attributed to some higher power.

Hell, I don't really know how my computer terminal registers the inputs when I tap these keys, but does it mean Jesus is secretly behind the scenes, manipulating, encoding and deciphering the electrical impulses responsible??

Guess what, they did this same thing thousands of years ago too.
Natural selection and speciation (i.e. Darwinian principles) etc. had not been observed.
Demons and spirits were believed to cause illness. Now we recognize that microscopic lifeforms (microbes, bacteria, etc.) and/or DNA cores with a protein shell (viruses) are responsible for sickness.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 07:11:03 PM
How about this?

1) A key passage in Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus doesn't make sense in Aramaic.
However, it makes perfect sense in GREEK, so scholars acknowledge that Jesus did not really have this conversation, rather it was some the product of the imagination of some Greek scribe.

2) Several books in the Bible (particularly the Pauline epistles) are not really written by the alleged author. Its called pseudepigrapha, writing under a famous author's name, in this case the apostle Paul. How do I trust the content of the Bible if the authors are perfectly comfortable assuming another's identity??

3) The Bible is two-faced ... even the New Testament.
It supports racism, slavery, misogyny ... unacceptable in my eyes under any circumstance.
Read 2 Timothy if you don't believe me. Slaves were the physical property of their masters, so the master had every right to abuse them sexually. Even Abraham had sex slaves.

4) Matthew and Luke have entirely different, completely irreconcilable birth narratives.

... couple that with the fact that Homo sapiens is really a primate (since our genetic makeup is 99% synonymous to the others), abiogenesis has been documented, the Earth is billions of years old, not 6000 ... and lastly, the useless slaughter of innocent animals to appease an invincible God (speciesism).

No thank you. Even IF God existed, which he doesn't, I would not accept his salvation.
"Man created in God's image" ... what a carnal notion  ::)

you're forgeting the cultural context of when and where these passages were written (ie: slavery, animal sacrifices, etc . . .)

furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church accepts the theory of evolution

lastly, God creating the universe is compatible with the Big Bang theory. Who do you think caused it? I'll give you hint . . .

(http://www.nivbed.com/junk/ancient_garbage/god.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 07:18:55 PM
Ask yourself: what truly prevents you from having faith?

Often people are too proud to accept that there is something higher than them. It's difficult for some to concede that they are not the most important person in the universe. Pride prevents people from from putting aside their desires and putting God's will above their own. It is selfishness, greed, and pride that drive people to commiting acts of evil. Their pride won't allow them to surrender themselves to the Lord and allow Him to work through them.

Anger prevents a lot of people from believing in an all loving all knowing God. The evils and injustice's they see in the world angers them. They declare: "How can there be a God when the world is such an aweful place? If God was so great, he would stop suffereing and end all that is bad once and for all." Perhaps they were molested as a child or had a traumatic thing happen to them. "If God existed, why would he let this happen to me?" Thus all of their anger that has built up has also built up a wall between them and God. This blocks their path to him and prevents them from having faith.

Fear is another emotion that can prevent people from having faith. They are afraid that if God truly exists, they're perception on reality will be torn asunder. Some people are afraid to accept Jesus because it is more comfortable to deny him and live a life of sin. Having faith and doing the Lord's work are very difficult. Perhaps some are just afraid of getting their hands dirty.


When you accept Jesus, you cast aside all your negativity, all of your despair, and all of your pain. When you allow Him to enter your life and act according to His way, only then can you be truly fullfilled.

Your so-called "intelligence", "commonsense", and "honesty" are nothing more than words you use to deny what is in your heart. Jesus and the love of God is inside each and every one of you. You just have to choose to release it. You have to have faith.


(http://community.dcmag.co.uk/photos/dave_morriss_gallery/images/122977/500x263.aspx)


Quote
Ask yourself: what truly prevents you from having faith?

" Faith: not wanting to know what is true. "

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 07:25:41 PM
you're forgeting the cultural context of when and where these passages were written (ie: slavery, animal sacrifices, etc . . .)

Well my point was, alongside the morally reprehensible behavior the Bible condones, is that there is also a great deal of forgery, deceit, and invention within the bible. Entire passages were written in Greek that don't make sense in Aramaic, in conversation, contextually, or otherwise. Entire passages are considered apocryphal in a work where it is blatantly obvious that an editor made a substantial addition to the original content. In addition, some unknown authors would write as "Paul", "John", "Peter", etc. so they could promote their own spin on the theology.

Its funny how the women in Paul's churches are quite active in his documented epistles, yet in the pastoral epistles they are commanded to remain inactive and submissive to their husbands, AND to remain silent in church.

I seriously recommend you audit a few theology courses taught by an objective professor.
It would be quite an enlightening experience. You'd be surprised to learn that the outstanding majority of serious, respected Biblical scholars are not religious. Bart Ehrman, the perhaps the most respected of them all, basically thinks (as a conclusion of extensive research, Greek & Aramaic etymology, etc.) that Jesus was a disillusioned madman who believed that he would reign ON EARTH with God within the lifetime of his disciples, and there would be a grand judgment where the "chaff was separated from the wheat", so to speak. Its already been 2000 years, and no such judgment has taken place. If you read Mark closely, the original Gospel and source material for the remainder, written initially and the most authorized gospel according to scholars, you will see that Jesus believed the kingdom would come within 40-50 years max.


Quote
furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church accepts the theory of evolution

Well thats stupid, you basically acknowledged that your own creation narrative is wrong.
If you can't vouch for Genesis 1 - 11, why would you consider defending John 3:16 then?

Genesis says quite clearly that God formed man from the dust of the Earth, AFTER he had already created the animals and vegetation. Man was ALWAYS a separate entity from beast.
The concessions are lame, you basically let go of everything science can EMPIRICALLY PROVE is wrong, yet still hold on to these antiquated notions that extend well beyond the bounds of modern science (i.e: the spiritual realm).

Do you believe in the literal resurrection?
Jesus' claim that he was the voice of the burning bush that appeared before Moses?
Where do you draw the line??

Quote
lastly, God creating the universe is compatible with the Big Bang theory. Who do you think caused it? I'll give you hint . . .

I have as much right to claim that my Grandmother was responsible for the Big Bang.

Seriously, you don't have to take every unknown variable and attribute it to God.

Besides, in that sense, you basically reduce God to nothing more than the input energy responsible for the initial explosion. That is a long, long stretch from the anthropomorphic, personified God with his characteristic wrath, jealously, and punishment (remarkably human attributes).
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 07:27:13 PM
I don't understand how everything and anything people don't understand is readily attributed to some higher power.

Hell, I don't really know how my computer terminal registers the inputs when I tap these keys, but does it mean Jesus is secretly behind the scenes, manipulating, encoding and deciphering the electrical impulses responsible??

Guess what, they did this same thing thousands of years ago too.
Natural selection and speciation (i.e. Darwinian principles) etc. had not been observed.
Demons and spirits were believed to cause illness. Now we recognize that microscopic lifeforms (microbes, bacteria, etc.) and/or DNA cores with a protein shell (viruses) are responsible for sickness.

so you believe that everything can be measured, explained and rationalized with science. you believe this despite the fact that there is much science has yet to prove, yet you have faith that it will.

religion doesn't attempt to explain scientific phenomenon. you are describing superstiton, not religion - there is a difference
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 07:36:47 PM


Well thats stupid, you basically acknowledged that your own creation narrative is wrong.
If you can't vouch for Genesis 1 - 11, why would you consider defending John 3:16 then?

Genesis says quite clearly that God formed man from the dust of the Earth, AFTER he had already created the animals and vegetation. Man was ALWAYS a separate entity from beast.
The concessions are lame, you basically let go of everything science can EMPIRICALLY PROVE is wrong, yet still hold on to these antiquated notions that extend well beyond the bounds of modern science (i.e: the spiritual realm).

the book of Genesis has spiritual truth.

The Bible is a collection of books. Becuase one book has more spiritual meaning than literal meaning does not sugggest that the others, written by different people who were inspired by the Holy Spirit and separated by thousands of years, also contain the same proportion of spiritual and literal truth. It implies a correlation that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 07:46:52 PM
so you believe that everything can be measured, explained and rationalized with science. you believe this despite the fact that there is much science has yet to prove, yet you have faith that it will.

You are absolutely right. Science has only cracked the surface.
However, the science that has already been established can readily dismantle the outstanding majority of the Bible.  

Quote
religion doesn't attempt to explain scientific phenomenon. you are describing superstiton, not religion - there is a difference

Yes it does. Jesus attributed illness to demons.
He commanded a demon to leave the boy with epilepsy.
Epilepsy is a neurological disorder, so it CAN be measured, explained, rationalized by science.
Even IF Jesus healed the epileptic, which he DIDN'T, he was wrong as to the cause.

Jesus was resurrected.
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
His body was missing from the tomb. Either it was stolen (but the Bible never even hints at this as a possibility, in fact the suggestion would have been considered heresy), the myth was invented (likely, Jesus' body is in some obscure Palestinian grave as we speak), or his body disappeared, which is a scientific impossibility.

So as you see, Religion DOES attempt to provide explanations for scientific phenomenon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no such thing as sin or evil. Matter is not created or destroyed, merely changes form.
The relative arrangement of atomic particles is irrelevant - it is a subjective value judgment.
If I shoot you, eat you, or vaporize you (of course I wouldn't! just an analogy) means nothing, no matter is destroyed, nothing is lost other than the electrical association between various particles, but this energy is compensated for by reducing the amount stolen from the adjacent environment.

Life is nothing more than an indifferent series of chemical reactions and atomic interaction.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on July 24, 2006, 07:56:05 PM
You are absolutely right. Science has only cracked the surface.
However, the science that has already been established can readily dismantle the outstanding majority of the Bible.  

Yes it does. Jesus attributed illness to demons.
He commanded a demon to leave the boy with epilepsy.
Epilepsy is a neurological disorder, so it CAN be measured, explained, rationalized by science.
Even IF Jesus healed the epileptic, which he DIDN'T, he was wrong as to the cause.

Jesus was resurrected.
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
His body was missing from the tomb. Either it was stolen (but the Bible never even hints at this as a possibility, in fact the suggestion would have been considered heresy), the myth was invented (likely, Jesus' body is in some obscure Palestinian grave as we speak), or his body disappeared, which is a scientific impossibility.

So as you see, Religion DOES attempt to provide explanations for scientific phenomenon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no such thing as sin or evil. Matter is not created or destroyed, merely changes form.
The relative arrangement of atomic particles is irrelevant - it is a subjective value judgment.
If I shoot you, eat you, or vaporize you (of course I wouldn't! just an analogy) means nothing, no matter is destroyed, nothing is lost other than the electrical association between various particles, but this energy is compensated for by reducing the amount stolen from the adjacent environment.

Life is nothing more than an indifferent series of chemical reactions and atomic interaction.

Great post !!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 07:57:45 PM
There is no such thing as sin or evil. Matter is not created or destroyed, merely changes form.
The relative arrangement of atomic particles is irrelevant - it is a subjective value judgment.
If I shoot you, eat you, or vaporize you (of course I wouldn't! just an analogy) means nothing, no matter is destroyed, nothing is lost other than the electrical association between various particles, but this energy is compensated for by reducing the amount stolen from the adjacent environment.

Life is nothing more than an indifferent series of chemical reactions and atomic interaction.

I do not subscribe to moral relativism. The Church believes in moral absolutes. The actions you described are wrong. The scientific explanation of how it happens does not negate that. Science has no moral imperative - it can't be right or wrong.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 07:59:17 PM
Big Poppa J:

Its cool though. I respect your beliefs. I have been there too.

Jesus fulfills some 300+ Old Testament prophecies.
In my mind, that alone was a direct testament to his identity.

However, then I learned that the most pivotal conversation in Christianity - Jesus & Nicodemus -, John 2:22, directly preceding the most famous verse in history, John 3:16, doesn't actually make any sense in Jesus' native language, but PERFECT sense in Greek.

If you can confront that detail,  yet still retain your faith, you are a better man.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 08:06:33 PM
I do not subscribe to moral relativism. The Church believes in moral absolutes. The actions you described are wrong. The scientific explanation of how it happens does not negate that. Science has no moral imperative - it can't be right or wrong.

How is it wrong? Because society has told you it is? ...perhaps under the guise of religion??

The very fact that you remain alive demonstrates that you deprive the right to live to other organisms. We cannot survive without organic matter, so whether we consume plants, animals, or humans is irrelevant, we are still robbing life in order to maintain the course of our own.

Who made humans more valuable than animals?
We are primates, yet are we more valuable than our distant cousins, the gorilla or chimpanzee?

Besides, we are not simply 1 life, 1 entity ... we are a collection of billions of lifeforms living symbiotically for mutual advantage. These lifeforms live or die everyday, but their matter is passed on, in the form of detritus, to be consumed by detritivores, who ultimately provide nutrients to support plant life, which support the animals, which support us, etc.

The value of life is not hierarchical. It is cyclical.
Without the decomposers, we could not survive.

Not to mention nothing really differentiates us from single, isolated atoms.
Merely the respective number of atoms and their relative arrangement/interaction.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 08:07:14 PM
Yes it does. Jesus attributed illness to demons.
He commanded a demon to leave the boy with epilepsy.
Epilepsy is a neurological disorder, so it CAN be measured, explained, rationalized by science.
Even IF Jesus healed the epileptic, which he DIDN'T, he was wrong as to the cause.

You're attributing this to the language used. You are looking at the literal word used as opposed to the meaning of what's being said.

More importantly, when did you prove Jesus didn't cure the boy? You say he didn't but how would you know? You haven't proven anything

Quote

Jesus was resurrected.
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
His body was missing from the tomb. Either it was stolen (but the Bible never even hints at this as a possibility, in fact the suggestion would have been considered heresy), the myth was invented (likely, Jesus' body is in some obscure Palestinian grave as we speak), or his body disappeared, which is a scientific impossibility.

Jesus died, was resurrected, and rose to heaven. How does the Resurrection involve matter being destroyed?

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 08:18:03 PM
Big Poppa J:

Its cool though. I respect your beliefs. I have been there too.

Jesus fulfills some 300+ Old Testament prophecies.
In my mind, that alone was a direct testament to his identity.

However, then I learned that the most pivotal conversation in Christianity - Jesus & Nicodemus -, John 2:22, directly preceding the most famous verse in history, John 3:16, doesn't actually make any sense in Jesus' native language, but PERFECT sense in Greek.

If you can confront that detail,  yet still retain your faith, you are a better man.

It saddens my heart that you have lost your faith, Praetor Fenix.

I'm not familiar with the detail you've mentioned. I am not a theologen nor am I a biblical scholar. A such, I cannot give you the complete and official answer to your querry.

I do, however, suggest that you take it up with someone who is. A priest perhaps would be best suited to offer the appropriate explanation. I am confident that if you do so with an open mind free of cynisism and bias, you will find the answer you seek.

It's not about being a better man. I do not make distinctons between one persons value or worth. We are all equal under God. As such, I hold nothing against you, nor do i judge you for your loss of faith. I will, however, pray for you so that you will find peace in your life. I sincerely hope you refind the Lord
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 08:26:01 PM
You're attributing this to the language used. You are looking at the literal word used as opposed to the meaning of what's being said.

Well, the demons are personified. They recognize Jesus, shriek, scream his name.
Neuropaths don't have audible neurons that scream "You are the Son of God!"

So even if it was intended to be symbolic, which it isn't, its quite stupid since it has so much "artistic license" as to render it creditless and leave the reader scratching his head as to what exactly he can believe at face-value within the text.

Secondly, the cultural context is 1st century Judean countryside, far far away from the established provinces. These were simple peasant folk, most illiterate, so they didn't have the same sense of symbolism, or even an appreciation of the far distant future, that we share today.

I'm sorry, I would like this secret to salvation- with eternal consequences equating to paradise or sheer torture - to be spelled out a bit more distinctly without the empty rhetoric and silly metaphor.

Quote
More importantly, when did you prove Jesus didn't cure the boy? You say he didn't but how would you know? You haven't proven anything

Well I'm sure today's MDs could comfortably assert that shouting at an imaginary demon to leave will not cure any illness, let alone one as severe as epilepsy.

Words are simply audible vibrations. Chemical treatments are required to tackle epilepsy.

Quote
Jesus died, was resurrected, and rose to heaven. How does the Resurrection involve matter being destroyed?

*Sigh* I'll spell it out for you ... S-I-M-P-L-Y.

- Jesus' body was missing from the tomb.
- Matter cannot be destroyed, so his body was either:
   A) Moved to a different location
   B) Not really removed from the tomb (so once again, the Bible is lying)

Are you implying Jesus' body remained intact and he simply levitated into outer space  ???
... as opposed to disappearing, which is physically impossible?

I'm sorry, but we've been to space, and there is no "heaven" out there.
How did Jesus' body fight the forces of gravity, reach outerspace, then float around aimlessly in space. I'm sure anybody who can discover a reasonable answer would be granted a fellowship at Harvard by tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Praetor Fenix on July 24, 2006, 08:31:42 PM
By the way Poppa J, ignore my tone please.

I'm not angry with you and certainly don't intend to belittle your beliefs or arguments.

This is simply a contentious issue in my mind, one that I have struggled with for years.

I recognize that many tenets of Christianity are entirely valid.

There are simply some caveats I cannot yet bring myself to confront or accept.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 24, 2006, 08:36:09 PM
By the way Poppa J, ignore my tone please.

I'm not angry with you and certainly don't intend to belittle your beliefs or arguments.

This is simply a contentious issue in my mind, one that I have struggled with for years.

I recognize that many tenets of Christianity are entirely valid.

There are simply some caveats I cannot yet bring myself to confront or accept.

I understand your struggles and I hope you can work through them. Its not easy . . .
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: hardest core on July 24, 2006, 09:59:15 PM
I'm glad you guys know so much about how/why the world exists....and that you want to tell all of the other lonely ding-bats your "opinions" through a bunch of pshyco-babble . Why don't you spend more time with your family........or bettering yourself for the benefit of your family, like Mark does. While some of you have great responses, this is a thread about Mark Dugdale and his DVD...........his DVD...........his DVD.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 26, 2006, 05:37:21 PM
Regardless of what side your are on w.r.t. the Jesus (and Christianity)... if you were wrong would you want to know?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Woten on July 26, 2006, 06:01:51 PM
Matt, does this thread have subtitles for those that dont really give a flying fuck either way?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240_Iz_Nutz on July 26, 2006, 08:38:42 PM
I'm glad you guys know so much about how/why the world exists....and that you want to tell all of the other lonely ding-bats your "opinions" through a bunch of pshyco-babble . Why don't you spend more time with your family........or bettering yourself for the benefit of your family, like Mark does. While some of you have great responses, this is a thread about Mark Dugdale and his DVD...........his DVD...........his DVD.

 The issue would not come up, if it were not for Mark's agenda to state how he feels. You can say this is a bodybuilding board and it does not matter, but who laid the cards out?  If his faith is so strong, that is up to him. If he feels that he can do whatever he wants due to personal agenda, who is to say that isn't right? Not me, that is for sure. I do like how there are both educated and "faith-based" arguments on this thread. Big Poppa J keeps getting pw3nd or however you guys say it.  Yeah buddy, piss and moan, but will you send me $500 if I tell you Jesus said it needed to happen? ;D
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 26, 2006, 09:01:36 PM
Big Poppa J keeps getting pw3nd or however you guys say it.  Yeah buddy, piss and moan, but will you send me $500 if I tell you Jesus said it needed to happen? ;D

You're full of shit, Nutz. If you're blind to the truth, then I feel sorry for you.

(http://www.latinmass.bravepages.com/images/resurrection.jpg)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: 240_Iz_Nutz on July 26, 2006, 09:21:11 PM
You're full of shit, Nutz. If you're blind to the truth, then I feel sorry for you.

(http://www.latinmass.bravepages.com/images/resurrection.jpg)

the picture is a bit much bro... :P
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: hardest core on July 26, 2006, 09:47:17 PM
Boy oh boy...........some of you are truly brainwashed.

While I don't have the same "beliefs" as Mark.........he is still a great guy, a wonderful father/husband........and a very good human being. So what if he states his beliefs ........you don't have to listen......but many of you are obviously are.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 27, 2006, 05:12:13 PM
Yes.

So, first you have to ask yourself if there is any possibility that you are wrong.  If the possibility exists then there are a few directions you can take....

1) You wait for someone to come along that can convince you otherwise
2) You take the initiative to find the most credible people possible with the opposing view, open your mind, ask your questions, and listen.
3) You do nothing and nobody comes along attempting to persuade you.  You end your life with doubt.

Lots of people are going to read this and think, "any rational person can see that it's not true."  Well, there are lots of highly intelligent and rational people who do believe.  That is unimportant though.  The bottom line is are you sure.... and if not, you ought to do something about it.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: LuciusFox on July 27, 2006, 07:18:23 PM
So, first you have to ask yourself if there is any possibility that you are wrong.  If the possibility exists then there are a few directions you can take....

1) You wait for someone to come along that can convince you otherwise
2) You take the initiative to find the most credible people possible with the opposing view, open your mind, ask your questions, and listen.
3) You do nothing and nobody comes along attempting to persuade you.  You end your life with doubt.

Lots of people are going to read this and think, "any rational person can see that it's not true."  Well, there are lots of highly intelligent and rational people who do believe.  That is unimportant though.  The bottom line is are you sure.... and if not, you ought to do something about it.


  LOL....maybe he should be a Buddhist ::)
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 28, 2006, 05:52:40 PM
Of course I'm not sure and still seeking answers.  It doesn't mean I'm going to believe in unproven fairie tales for comfort.

Good to hear that you are still seeking answers.  Could you explain your second point?  Are you saying that Christianity is a fairy tale?  Or are you saying that you won't succumb to the pressure of discarding intellectual honesty in order to feel better?  I quote from Galileo that I love.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

Intellectual honesty involves ...
a) Seeking the truth
b) Letting the evidence speak
c) Setting aside what we want the answer to be and accepting what we discover
d) Asking tough questions
e) Not making decisions and claiming something to be true or false until we have thoroughly investigated it
f) Not making disparaging remarks about others beliefs when we don't understand how they came about believing what they believe
g) Using the appropriate means of acquiring knowledge.  Not all knowledge can be attained through the scientific method.  Some truth comes by reasoning.  Some truth comes by experience.  Some truth comes my historical evidence, etc.

Best wishes to you in your pursuit of truth.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on July 28, 2006, 06:29:38 PM
Of course I'm not sure and still seeking answers.  It doesn't mean I'm going to believe in unproven fairie tales for comfort.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 29, 2006, 11:46:46 AM
So by this logic I should thoroughly investigate every unsubstantiated claim before dismissing it.  I should "keep an open mind" when it comes to leprechauns before dismissing them.

It doesn't work like that - if you make a positive claim, you show me positive physical evidence to show it exists.

Look - this is simple.  IF the Christian god exists, or if ANYTHING is true for that matter, it shouldn't be difficult to PROVE IT.  If I claimed I owned a car I would be able to show you that car and so on.

Christianity and leprechauns... so that is a worthy comparison in your eyes.  You have testimony of those who lived at the same time as Jesus did.  Thomas, a skeptic would not believe until he had physical evidence and it was presented to him.  However, physical evidence isn't the only way to find truth.  If you think about it, there are many things that you believe in that you have not seen.  You have placed faith in things based on reason, experience etc.

Since you see Christianity at the same level as leprechauns, it should be easy for you to present an airtight case as to why it is false.  So... start a thread and enlighten us all.  Perhaps you will find yourself in the same quandry as Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell.  They both set out to show it was false, and in the end, these highly educated men who actually INVESTIGATED the evidence (rather than making disrespectful uninformed assertions) became believers.  C.S. Lewis is another skeptic with outstanding credentials and intellect who became a believer.  Some of the top scientists in the world (biochemists, physicists, and astronomers) have become believers.  So, let's not compare Christianity and leprechauns.

God sent his son 2000 years ago to enlighten us.  He taught great things.  He performed miraculous signs witnessed by many.  He died on a cross and was resurrected.  His followers who fled before his death (due to fear) completely changed their paths and were willing to die for what they believed in.  The Bible tells us this.  Historical documents other than the Bible support its teaching.  His death was a payment for the wrongs of humanity.  Our only way to reconcile with God is to accept the one who paid it, and accept his gift of grace.

As I said, best wishes on your pursuit of truth.  Find an authority on the issue, and settle the matter.  If your not ready to do that, read A Case For Christ, A Case For Faith, Mere Christianity, and Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on July 29, 2006, 01:11:00 PM
This is simple:

Show me the physical evidence.

"Search and you will find it" means nothing to me.

EVERY religion says the same thing.  If you indoctrinate yourself for long enough you will believe anything.  If you indoctrinate your children since a young age they will believe anything.  If I wanted to teach my children that black people are no better than animals they would grow up believing it.

The same thing is said about every religion.  Some Mormons said the same thing to me recently.  Muslims, Jehovah's witnesses, Christians - all of you think you are right.  But that's the gag!  God is like a highlander - there can only be one!  So only one of you is right and EVERY other one of you is wrong.  So why should I believe you over somebody of another faith?  Your evidence is the exact same "You'll just feel it in your heart" spiel they give me.

If you have been religious since a young age I would be led to believe you were indoctrinated yourself.  In which case - I don't want to hear debate from you.

Just show me the physical proof.

Here is a claim: I have brown hair.

I can prove it.

Here is another claim: I and 5'9.

I can prove it.

I have a car.

I can prove it.

I own a house.

I can prove it.

I am 24.

I can prove it.

ETC, ETC, ETC.

IF SOMETHING IS TRUE, IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT DIFFICULT TO SHOW IT DIRECTLY.

It is that simple.

Religion is the single worst thing to EVER happen to humanity.  I don't like religion because I don't like killing and murder and bloodshed.  I want to live in a world where we can get along and love one another and share and so on.

Seems ironic doesn't it?  But if you look at the logical physical reality we live in, you will see I'm right.  The difference between me and you is that I can prove what I say.  You can't.
post of the century.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OneMoreRep on July 29, 2006, 01:20:45 PM
You are absolutely right. Science has only cracked the surface.
However, the science that has already been established can readily dismantle the outstanding majority of the Bible.  

Yes it does. Jesus attributed illness to demons.
He commanded a demon to leave the boy with epilepsy.
Epilepsy is a neurological disorder, so it CAN be measured, explained, rationalized by science.
Even IF Jesus healed the epileptic, which he DIDN'T, he was wrong as to the cause.

Jesus was resurrected.
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
His body was missing from the tomb. Either it was stolen (but the Bible never even hints at this as a possibility, in fact the suggestion would have been considered heresy), the myth was invented (likely, Jesus' body is in some obscure Palestinian grave as we speak), or his body disappeared, which is a scientific impossibility.

So as you see, Religion DOES attempt to provide explanations for scientific phenomenon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no such thing as sin or evil. Matter is not created or destroyed, merely changes form.
The relative arrangement of atomic particles is irrelevant - it is a subjective value judgment.
If I shoot you, eat you, or vaporize you (of course I wouldn't! just an analogy) means nothing, no matter is destroyed, nothing is lost other than the electrical association between various particles, but this energy is compensated for by reducing the amount stolen from the adjacent environment.

Life is nothing more than an indifferent series of chemical reactions and atomic interaction.

Who did you learn under? 
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: OakExpress on July 29, 2006, 05:02:38 PM
Ah... 24 years old.  A man of great wisdom.  A man of experience.  A man who has sought out great wisdom in his many years.  From his lofty incline bench, he stares down his nose at those who he deems to be fools. 

Your mind has been made up.  You haven't told me anything of your evaluation of Christianity.  All you have done is told me you can prove the obvious.  Congratulations.  Unfortunately real life is much trickier than I can prove I'm 5'9" (exactly 5' 9" ??? not a fraction of a micrometer more or less).

I've said all I have to say.  I'm sure you are glad to hear that.  I have been where you are.  I was a skeptic.  I evaluated the evidence and came to the conclusion that Jesus was who he said he was.

As I've said, I wish you the best on your search for truth. 

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on July 29, 2006, 05:04:35 PM
Ah... 24 years old.  A man of great wisdom.  A man of experience.  A man who has sought out great wisdom in his many years.  From his lofty incline bench, he stares down his nose at those who he deems to be fools. 

Your mind has been made up.  You haven't told me anything of your evaluation of Christianity.  All you have done is told me you can prove the obvious.  Congratulations.  Unfortunately real life is much trickier than I can prove I'm 5'9" (exactly 5' 9" ??? not a fraction of a micrometer more or less).

I've said all I have to say.  I'm sure you are glad to hear that.  I have been where you are.  I was a skeptic.  I evaluated the evidence and came to the conclusion that Jesus was who he said he was.

As I've said, I wish you the best on your search for truth. 


must be nice to be so sure ::) do you still believe in the tooth fairy?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: gordiano on July 29, 2006, 05:33:51 PM
must be nice to be so sure ::) do you still believe in the tooth fairy?

I believe in the Cock Fairy........he posts here under the name of Alexxx..........
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: sarcasm on July 29, 2006, 05:35:46 PM
I believe in the Cock Fairy........he posts here under the name of Alexxx..........
hahahaha, instead of leaving five dollars he sucks ball sacks dry and steals semen in the dead of the night.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: nycbull on August 03, 2006, 01:12:46 PM
How about this?

1) A key passage in Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus doesn't make sense in Aramaic.
However, it makes perfect sense in GREEK, so scholars acknowledge that Jesus did not really have this conversation, rather it was some the product of the imagination of some Greek scribe.

2) Several books in the Bible (particularly the Pauline epistles) are not really written by the alleged author. Its called pseudepigrapha, writing under a famous author's name, in this case the apostle Paul. How do I trust the content of the Bible if the authors are perfectly comfortable assuming another's identity??

3) The Bible is two-faced ... even the New Testament.
It supports racism, slavery, misogyny ... unacceptable in my eyes under any circumstance.
Read 2 Timothy if you don't believe me. Slaves were the physical property of their masters, so the master had every right to abuse them sexually. Even Abraham had sex slaves.

4) Matthew and Luke have entirely different, completely irreconcilable birth narratives.

... couple that with the fact that Homo sapiens is really a primate (since our genetic makeup is 99% synonymous to the others), abiogenesis has been documented, the Earth is billions of years old, not 6000 ... and lastly, the useless slaughter of innocent animals to appease an invincible God (speciesism).

No thank you. Even IF God existed, which he doesn't, I would not accept his salvation.
"Man created in God's image" ... what a carnal notion  ::)

So right about the innocent slaughter of animals in the bible. It is amazing how many religious people go mum when it comes to animal rights. If Jesus saw the mass slaughter of animals on factory farms, fur farms and labortories he would be sickened. He even saved a lamb from slaughter. But do these religious nuts ever do anything to help animals, nope, never. The Vatican has been asked time and time again if they think slaughtering an animal for a fur coat is acceptable, they continue to refuse to answer. I mean why not just answer the question. If its yes so be it, if not cool. But at least answer the question. The Vatican has ignored animal rights for years and it is becoming a joke. The ultimate in compassion is a person who goes out of his way to prevent harm to an animal with no selfish interest at all, not even a thank you. Thats real compassion.
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on August 03, 2006, 06:33:19 PM
So right about the innocent slaughter of animals in the bible. It is amazing how many religious people go mum when it comes to animal rights. If Jesus saw the mass slaughter of animals on factory farms, fur farms and labortories he would be sickened. He even saved a lamb from slaughter. But do these religious nuts ever do anything to help animals, nope, never. The Vatican has been asked time and time again if they think slaughtering an animal for a fur coat is acceptable, they continue to refuse to answer. I mean why not just answer the question. If its yes so be it, if not cool. But at least answer the question. The Vatican has ignored animal rights for years and it is becoming a joke. The ultimate in compassion is a person who goes out of his way to prevent harm to an animal with no selfish interest at all, not even a thank you. Thats real compassion.

Animals don't have souls. Why would they be given moral consideration?

God created them to feed and clothe us. As long as we don't abuse them, it's all good.

Why are people such whiny bitches about this anyway?
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: nycbull on August 03, 2006, 08:55:50 PM
Animals don't have souls. Why would they be given moral consideration?

God created them to feed and clothe us. As long as we don't abuse them, it's all good.

Why are people such whiny bitches about this anyway?

Your human centrist philosophy is the reason why our environment is in such disrepair. Ecology/Science has proved we are not the center of creation. And by the way the industries that use animals to feed and cloth us are the very ones that outright abuse animals. It's all about money. Its not farmers in overalls anymore dude. Its serious exploitation and abuse for money. There is no attempt at all to "Shepard" these poor souls. Its just neglect, abuse and making money.

By saying animals don't have souls aren't you really giving permission to abuse them. If they are so unimportant to God then why not abuse them? You see when you select only one group to be the chosen one you devalue the unchosen ones. Thats how violent racism and homophobia starts.

I realize animals have to be used for food and other needs. I am just saying that the church has no position on the exploitation and mistreatment and misuse and abuse of animals(and we are talking billions of animals) and that my friend is hypocritical. They have been silent on the undeniable animal abuse for profit in the fur, zoo, hunting, entertainment, science and food industry. Why not have a position and state it openly.

Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: hardest core on August 03, 2006, 10:13:42 PM
There are some crazy mo-fo's out there. Man oh man!
Title: Re: Review of Mark Dugdale's "Driven" DVD + LOTS of pics.
Post by: Ex Coelis on August 04, 2006, 11:56:32 AM
Your human centrist philosophy is the reason why our environment is in such disrepair. Ecology/Science has proved we are not the center of creation. And by the way the industries that use animals to feed and cloth us are the very ones that outright abuse animals. It's all about money. Its not farmers in overalls anymore dude. Its serious exploitation and abuse for money. There is no attempt at all to "Shepard" these poor souls. Its just neglect, abuse and making money.

By saying animals don't have souls aren't you really giving permission to abuse them. If they are so unimportant to God then why not abuse them? You see when you select only one group to be the chosen one you devalue the unchosen ones. Thats how violent racism and homophobia starts.

I realize animals have to be used for food and other needs. I am just saying that the church has no position on the exploitation and mistreatment and misuse and abuse of animals(and we are talking billions of animals) and that my friend is hypocritical. They have been silent on the undeniable animal abuse for profit in the fur, zoo, hunting, entertainment, science and food industry. Why not have a position and state it openly.



bitch bitch bitch - whine whine whine

if you've got such a boner for animals I'm sure there are a couple of links in the Sex forum you'd find interesting . . .


seriously though, abusing animals is wrong. But you seem to think that slaughtering them and making a living off of selling meat is somehow one of history's greatest injustices. Get a clue! Your idea of abuse is distorted.

Your perception on animals is also disturbing. It's this train of thought that leads PETA to compare KFC to the Holocaust. WTF???