Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: migizi on August 08, 2006, 01:57:45 PM
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I've been watching Milos' Hardcore Shoulder webisode on BB, the one with the screaming Malaysians/indonesians,,,,and Milos says when he's showing other variants of cables,,,that they're drinking a special mixture, or secret drink.....What could it be?
I'm thinking Dextrose n Whey
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I don't think it's dextrose , sometimes dextrose can cause insulin shock when dex is taken before or during training
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milos can tell us but then hed have to kill us
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A special blend of fresh strawberries, freshly squeezed orange juice, a squeeze of lemon and a crushed up testicle from an austrian mountain goat.
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I KNEW IT!!! ;D
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A special blend of fresh strawberries, freshly squeezed orange juice, a squeeze of lemon and a crushed up testicle from an austrian mountain goat.
and some ice.....
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Holy shit those girls are weak, and use really shitty form on the clean and push press. You'd think with all that muscle mass they would be stronger.
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proglycosyn from snac systems.
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Holy shit those girls are weak, and use really shitty form on the clean and push press. You'd think with all that muscle mass they would be stronger.
They are world-class athletes to say the least but the video just didn't show the extra sets of torture Milos was subjecting them to; otherwise iot would have been over anhour long in total.
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True, when your getting trained and you know it might go on and on you gotta take a sound bite from pumping iron that Louie said while training
"Noo mor pop no mor" and act all tired
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Dextrose won 2 straight ASC's. I wouldn't discount his anabolic abilities.
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I've been watching Milos' Hardcore Shoulder webisode on BB, the one with the screaming Malaysians/indonesians,,,,and Milos says when he's showing other variants of cables,,,that they're drinking a special mixture, or secret drink.....What could it be?
I'm thinking Dextrose n Whey
that will be $350 please drive up to the window.
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Soon enough I will have 3 products available and I will spend a lot of time promoting it.
After 20+ years of training experience I am 100% convinced that the greatest opportunity for muscle growth occurs DURING and immediately after the training.
While many of you take postworkout shakes few take specific PRE and DURING the workout drinks - THAT COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
My partners and I /KOLOSEUM NUTRITIONAL SCIENCES/ will be introducing our "HYPER-ANABOLIC" PRE-DURING-POST WORKOUT DRINKS that (we hope) will revolutionize bodybuilding industry..
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And NO...it is not dextrose and whey...
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And NO...it is not dextrose and whey...
Yeah right. Like a supplement will do anything. Natural training has not progressed in the last 60 years even. The natural bodybuilders of the 40s carry the same size as todays top naturals.
The only thing you are going to revolutionize is a quicker way to scam some dollars off of naive children and delusional weightlifters.
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While many of you take postworkout shakes few take specific PRE and DURING the workout drinks - THAT COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
Milos couldn't PRE & DURING workout drinks bring about stomach cramps due to the increase blood flow to the stomach?
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Sounds interesting Milos just dont make the mistake of muscletech type adverts
If the principles and ingredients are sound bodybuilders will buy it
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Sounds interesting Milos just dont make the mistake of muscletech type adverts
If the principles and ingredients are sound bodybuilders will buy it
Buy it for what though? There is no point.
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Alongside breakfast your nutrient intake around your workout is the most important
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Milos couldn't PRE & DURING workout drinks bring about stomach cramps due to the increase blood flow to the stomach?
Yes - if WHATEVER YOU TAKE ;) stays in stomach...
What you COULD HAVE is specific (ALL IMPORTANT NUTRIENTS) coming into the blood stream in matter of minutes - due to specific osmolility and superfast gastric emptying...
While training we increase our blood flow to the muscles FIVE TIMES...
Providing we have EXACTLY what we need at the time when MATTERS the most - what do you think will happen?
Well - I discovered and confirmed OVER AND OVER AGIAN how potent drinks like these could be - and I had beyond success with many of my clients for many years...
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first supp. FEDEX
second supp. new carnitine formula
third supp. during workout shake ?????
:)
(Milose da li ces prodavati u Srbiji ? )
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While many of you take postworkout shakes few take specific PRE and DURING the workout drinks - THAT COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
No offence Milos, but it's nothing really new. I have been doing this with my athetes for years (not bodybuilders) and it makes a big difference in their training and recovery. Not really convinced that there is any muscle growth DURING training!
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No offence Milos, but it's nothing really new. I have been doing this with my athetes for years (not bodybuilders) and it makes a big difference in their training and recovery. Not really convinced that there is any muscle growth DURING training!
No offence taken - I am doing this for 20 years... ;)- so IT IS NOTHING REALLY NEW...but than - even you make the statement "Not really convinced that there is any muscle growth DURING training!"
I will convince everyone who is going to try my products - IN NO TIME...(actually after first time they use it...)
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Milos - aren't you breaking the muscles down when you train
I have always understood that its during the recovery phase when the muscle repairs that growth happens
I know you can kick start this with your post workout nutrition but cant see how growth occurs during training
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No offence taken - I am doing this for 20 years... ;)
30 years here ;D! When will your product be available? I would like to see the proprietary break down.
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Milos, if you would like to mail me a sample, i would be happy to post an honest analysis of its effects on a workout.
If you're that confident of it, I'd say send a few bottles to some prominent people on the boards. If we all swear by it, you can rest assured that many of the mags, atheltes, gym owners, and BBers who read the boards will be interested in buying a case immediately.
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Its really not going to make a difference. Bodybuilding isn`t that strenuous....The guys in the 70s used to work out for 3-6 hours a day and recovered fine...The naturals in the 40s and 50 even did a few hours of full body training and recovered fine...
Just another crap ass supplement.
Not a fair assessment, they didn't have the same supps then as they do now, research has been going on for years and science has come along way with supplements for growth and recovery. But you're right, most are crap!
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hey thanks for getting on here Milos...yeah I was just wondering what other people thought it was...did you give any samples to your friends on the vid? .....how did your protege do at the competition you were getting him ready for? the one in your training webisodes,with the glasses?
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Not a fair assessment, they didn't have the same supps then as they do now, research has been going on for years and science has come along way with supplements for growth and recovery. But you're right, most are crap!
Show me a current natural WAY AHEAD of Clarence Ross,John Grimek or Steeve Reeves....
It just goes to show that the supplement industry is a big joke.
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Show me a current natural WAY AHEAD of Clarence Ross,John Grimek or Steeve Reeves....
It just goes to show that the supplement industry is a big joke.
I personally wasn't referring to bodybuilders, I was referring to athletes (not being sarcastic).
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It's Guinness.
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if Jay loses at the O ,will you shave your vagina ,yes or no?
http://fallshineband.com/missing.htm
Won't change the fact that the owning you received still haunts you 12 months later.
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Milos is known to be a big fan of Vitargo. I'm guessing the shake is a combo of Vitargo (waxy maize), a whey isolate and probably some buffered creatine and possibly glutamine.
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Yes, bivens. You're trying really hard.
but everyone here knows i can sneeze and that tissue will be funnier than anything you put out. If I chose to devote 15 minutes of my day to a fake webpage, I can completely destroy you like last time, where you didn't come back for 9 months.
At any rate, grow up, douchebag. HTH.
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Show me a current natural WAY AHEAD of Clarence Ross,John Grimek or Steeve Reeves....
It just goes to show that the supplement industry is a big joke.
Bingo. Look at the best naturals from 50 years ago versus the best naturals of today. NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever. Supplement companies are laughing their asses off.
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(Milose da li ces prodavati u Srbiji ? )
I think he will.. why ignore his (potentially) most loyal market.. ;)
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I think he will.. why ignore his (potentially) most loyal market.. ;)
you are right ;) I will first buy and try his supps , but who knows when he will start selling them , he is saying this for a year or maybe even years
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you are right ;) I will first buy and try his supps , but who knows when he will start selling them , he is saying this for a year or maybe even years
I would also like to buy his supps, but I don't know if I will ever see them in Australia, we don't get as much variety.
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Milos is known to be a big fan of Vitargo. I'm guessing the shake is a combo of Vitargo (waxy maize), a whey isolate and probably some buffered creatine and possibly glutamine.
I agree. Vitargo (or some other advanced carb), a premium quality isolate, and some creatine gluconate. Everything else (oral glutamine is a joke) would just be marketing/fluff. Would still make a very nice during/post WO shake.
Flashback 50 years....
Meat and Potatoes post workout - Results = same. lol
I hate to burst Milos' bubble but lets assume you workout 45-90min. The 15min difference between what you consume DURING your workout and what you consume RIGHT AFTER is not going to make that much of a difference. The only time carb/protein intake will make a huge difference is if you are talking about long 2-2.5 hour training sessions or some other extended event (cycling, long sporting event, etc.).
All that being said, I still buy supplements and support the industry. Hell I just bought some Gaspari SizeOn today. Half the fun of it is the entertainment value. Im like a kid in a candy store when I get new supplements to try out... sad but true.
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Yeah right. Like a supplement will do anything. Natural training has not progressed in the last 60 years even. The natural bodybuilders of the 40s carry the same size as todays top naturals.
The only thing you are going to revolutionize is a quicker way to scam some dollars off of naive children and delusional weightlifters.
hahahaha, exactly, these jackasses make it sound as if they travel to the planet Saturn and extract pieces of the ring and dissolve it for it's "anabolic qualities", all of the "supplements" are just knockoffs of real food that's it.
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Hell I just bought some Gaspari SizeOn today.
It gives me the runs :-\!
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I agree. Vitargo (or some other advanced carb), a premium quality isolate, and some creatine gluconate. Everything else (oral glutamine is a joke) would just be marketing/fluff. Would still make a very nice during/post WO shake.
Flashback 50 years....
Meat and Potatoes post workout - Results = same. lol
I hate to burst Milos' bubble but lets assume you workout 45-90min. The 15min difference between what you consume DURING your workout and what you consume RIGHT AFTER is not going to make that much of a difference. The only time carb/protein intake will make a huge difference is if you are talking about long 2-2.5 hour training sessions or some other extended event (cycling, long sporting event, etc.).
All that being said, I still buy supplements and support the industry. Hell I just bought some Gaspari SizeOn today. Half the fun of it is the entertainment value. Im like a kid in a candy store when I get new supplements to try out... sad but true.
It is kind of funny how we take this supplementation thing to the "nth" degree. Got to get in that simple carb and whey isolate protein shake in immediately after a workout. It can't wait even 10 minutes, it has to be immediately and it has to contain dextrose, not maltodextrin, and the protein has to be an isolate, a concentrate just won't do. What in the world did Arnold and Haney do without all of our high tech supplements?
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I agree. Vitargo (or some other advanced carb), a premium quality isolate, and some creatine gluconate. Everything else (oral glutamine is a joke) would just be marketing/fluff. Would still make a very nice during/post WO shake.
Flashback 50 years....
Meat and Potatoes post workout - Results = same. lol
I hate to burst Milos' bubble but lets assume you workout 45-90min. The 15min difference between what you consume DURING your workout and what you consume RIGHT AFTER is not going to make that much of a difference. The only time carb/protein intake will make a huge difference is if you are talking about long 2-2.5 hour training sessions or some other extended event (cycling, long sporting event, etc.).
All that being said, I still buy supplements and support the industry. Hell I just bought some Gaspari SizeOn today. Half the fun of it is the entertainment value. Im like a kid in a candy store when I get new supplements to try out... sad but true.
You said it right, Meat and potatoes post workout - results = same.
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Its really not going to make a difference. Bodybuilding isn`t that strenuous....The guys in the 70s used to work out for 3-6 hours a day and recovered fine...The naturals in the 40s and 50 even did a few hours of full body training and recovered fine...
Just another crap ass supplement.
Goddam you're as stupid as you look. FUCKING DUMB!!!!
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I'm willing to bet its a mix of BCAA's with waxy maize, seems to be "all the rage" lately.
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I'm willing to bet its a mix of BCAA's with waxy maize, seems to be "all the rage" lately.
wow Milos is gonna hate me for this lol...... guy above pretty much nailed it.....
Waxy Maize (aka vitargo) has an extremely low osmolality rate... which basicly means it passed through your system very quickly (i think 75% faster than any other carb) and is absorbed as a much quicker rate. This allows anything mixed with it to be absorbed quicker along with it as it will also pass through your system quicker (pending you dont mix it with something that could slow its absorption like a whole protein source or fat). This means creatine+BCAAs will also be absorbed much quicker (where as if mixed with something like dextrose or maltodextrine... the carb would absorb slower as well as creatine doesnt pass through your system very fast (unless mixed with something such as vitargo aka waxy maize) so it would MISS the insulin spike that you created with your carbs. Sorry Milos.... but we already nailed the INTRAWORKOUT supplement at Gaspari Nutrition haha .... but we dont use vitargo we have a patent pending carb we call "outlast" ;) and the most superior form of creatine which blows away ethyl ester (and we have published scientific proof).
Im too tired and hungry to go into pre and post workout but maybe il come back later haha
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wow Milos is gonna hate me for this lol...... guy above pretty much nailed it.....
Waxy Maize (aka vitargo) has an extremely low osmolality rate... which basicly means it passed through your system very quickly (i think 75% faster than any other carb) and is absorbed as a much quicker rate. This allows anything mixed with it to be absorbed quicker along with it as it will also pass through your system quicker (pending you dont mix it with something that could slow its absorption like a whole protein source or fat). This means creatine+BCAAs will also be absorbed much quicker (where as if mixed with something like dextrose or maltodextrine... the carb would absorb slower as well as creatine doesnt pass through your system very fast (unless mixed with something such as vitargo aka waxy maize) so it would MISS the insulin spike that you created with your carbs. Sorry Milos.... but we already nailed the INTRAWORKOUT supplement at Gaspari Nutrition haha .... but we dont use vitargo we have a patent pending carb we call "outlast" ;) and the most superior form of creatine which blows away ethyl ester (and we have published scientific proof).
Im too tired and hungry to go into pre and post workout but maybe il come back later haha
hahahahaha, so you guys over at gaspari nutrition have a patent on carbs now, huh? ::)
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It gives me the runs :-\!
Get a pump goin then about 5mins into the workout.....sip it dont chug ;)
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hahahahaha, so you guys over at gaspari nutrition have a patent on carbs now, huh? ::)
you can patent something if its the first time its used for a specific purpose... you can patent it for THAT purpose..
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you can patent something if its the first time its used for a specific purpose... you can patent it for THAT purpose..
yeah, no one has EVER used grape juice or other carbs postworkout. ::)
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Show me a current natural WAY AHEAD of Clarence Ross,John Grimek or Steeve Reeves....
It just goes to show that the supplement industry is a big joke.
What about ALEXXX ?
;D
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Dude im not even gonna argue with u lol... ur not worth the explination.... and you wouldnt understand anyway... it would go right over your head.... shoot me your email.... il send you some samples.... if it works (and you must be honest) you gotta come on here and tell everyone how much of a douche you are for doubting .... hows that sound???????
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wow Milos is gonna hate me for this lol...... guy above pretty much nailed it.....
Waxy Maize (aka vitargo) has an extremely low osmolality rate... which basicly means it passed through your system very quickly (i think 75% faster than any other carb) and is absorbed as a much quicker rate. This allows anything mixed with it to be absorbed quicker along with it as it will also pass through your system quicker (pending you dont mix it with something that could slow its absorption like a whole protein source or fat). This means creatine+BCAAs will also be absorbed much quicker (where as if mixed with something like dextrose or maltodextrine... the carb would absorb slower as well as creatine doesnt pass through your system very fast (unless mixed with something such as vitargo aka waxy maize) so it would MISS the insulin spike that you created with your carbs. Sorry Milos.... but we already nailed the INTRAWORKOUT supplement at Gaspari Nutrition haha .... but we dont use vitargo we have a patent pending carb we call "outlast" ;) and the most superior form of creatine which blows away ethyl ester (and we have published scientific proof).
Im too tired and hungry to go into pre and post workout but maybe il come back later haha
Isn't it true that even a whey protein isolate puts too much of a "load" on the waxy maize to get the best use of it? The new theory says to take the waxy maize with the bcaa imediately after a workout and 20 or 30 minutes later take the whey protein isolate. Do you agree with this and don't tease us about the pre and post, share that info with us.
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Isn't it true that even a whey protein isolate puts too much of a "load" on the waxy maize to get the best use of it? The new theory says to take the waxy maize with the bcaa imediately after a workout and 20 or 30 minutes later take the whey protein isolate. Do you agree with this and don't tease us about the pre and post, share that info with us.
Your on the money bro!
Im eating.... short responses are ok but the long required post that takes thought would take me some time haha.... maybe later
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Dude im not even gonna argue with u lol... ur not worth the explination.... and you wouldnt understand anyway... it would go right over your head.... shoot me your email.... il send you some samples.... if it works (and you must be honest) you gotta come on here and tell everyone how much of a douche you are for doubting .... hows that sound???????
name calling meltdown.
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wow Milos is gonna hate me for this lol...... guy above pretty much nailed it.....
Waxy Maize (aka vitargo) has an extremely low osmolality rate... which basicly means it passed through your system very quickly (i think 75% faster than any other carb) and is absorbed as a much quicker rate. This allows anything mixed with it to be absorbed quicker along with it as it will also pass through your system quicker (pending you dont mix it with something that could slow its absorption like a whole protein source or fat). This means creatine+BCAAs will also be absorbed much quicker (where as if mixed with something like dextrose or maltodextrine... the carb would absorb slower as well as creatine doesnt pass through your system very fast (unless mixed with something such as vitargo aka waxy maize) so it would MISS the insulin spike that you created with your carbs. Sorry Milos.... but we already nailed the INTRAWORKOUT supplement at Gaspari Nutrition haha .... but we dont use vitargo we have a patent pending carb we call "outlast" ;) and the most superior form of creatine which blows away ethyl ester (and we have published scientific proof).
Im too tired and hungry to go into pre and post workout but maybe il come back later haha
I am so smart, smrt. On a serious note, I have heard many good things about this.
The high molecular weight, "pulls" the WM through the gut, into the small intestine, where the bulk of carbohydrate metabolism occurs.
This "pull" causes an osmolic effect, drawing water with it, allowing more water to be drawn into the muscle as well. (you may feel dehydrated for a bit after taking WM) Studies have shown conclusively that there is increased glycogen synthesis for around 2 hours after ingestion of WM as opposed to glucose.
It is VERY effective at glycogen restoration post workout. The faster you can restore glycogen, the faster you can shut of catabolism, and the more likely you will be to use the protein you ingest for synthesis of new muscle tissue.
The molecular weight of the WM can also increase absorption of other nutrients that would be consumed pwo. IE: creatine, leucine, taurine, etc.
The concern with this is, the added nutrients may effect the total moleculare weight of the "meal." (amino acids are MUCH lower in molecular weight than WM) This may effect some of the benefits of the high molecular weight.
In my self research, I have noticed a decrease in the absorption rate of WM with the addition of other nutrients. I've found that once the total amount of added ingredients reaches about 20-25g per 75g of WM, there is a change in blood sugar levels, as opposed to pure WM, indicating to me that the WM isn't being "pulled" through the gut as quickly.
I limit my post workout additions to WM to a very limited amount of specific nutrients (leucine and creatine)
The rest of my protein is consumed about 20min later.
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I am so smart, smrt. On a serious note, I have heard many good things about this.
The high molecular weight, "pulls" the WM through the gut, into the small intestine, where the bulk of carbohydrate metabolism occurs.
This "pull" causes an osmolic effect, drawing water with it, allowing more water to be drawn into the muscle as well. (you may feel dehydrated for a bit after taking WM) Studies have shown conclusively that there is increased glycogen synthesis for around 2 hours after ingestion of WM as opposed to glucose.
It is VERY effective at glycogen restoration post workout. The faster you can restore glycogen, the faster you can shut of catabolism, and the more likely you will be to use the protein you ingest for synthesis of new muscle tissue.
The molecular weight of the WM can also increase absorption of other nutrients that would be consumed pwo. IE: creatine, leucine, taurine, etc.
The concern with this is, the added nutrients may effect the total moleculare weight of the "meal." (amino acids are MUCH lower in molecular weight than WM) This may effect some of the benefits of the high molecular weight.
In my self research, I have noticed a decrease in the absorption rate of WM with the addition of other nutrients. I've found that once the total amount of added ingredients reaches about 20-25g per 75g of WM, there is a change in blood sugar levels, as opposed to pure WM, indicating to me that the WM isn't being "pulled" through the gut as quickly.
I limit my post workout additions to WM to a very limited amount of specific nutrients (leucine and creatine)
The rest of my protein is consumed about 20min later.
Sounds an aweful lot like a "bodybuilding guru" i know of haha (and a damn good competitor on top of that.... you would be wise to listen to this man...
im gonna take this to promuscle in order to insure no bs interferes.... hehe
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hahahha listen to all of this bullshit.
You guys act like a couple of hour sessions in the gym a week is killing you that you need something so powerful(when it reality it isn`t) to help you recover.hahahah
Newsflash, you aren`t doing anything THAT strenuous where you are catabolic. NOT AT ALL!
A marathon runner,swimmer,endurance athlete may benefit from this type of supplementation but not a bodybuilder unless he was to spend hours daily in the gym...We don`t see that happening much.
Even then it still wouldn`t really matter. I have yet to see a groundbreaking natural bodybuilder. One that, because of supplementation, is so far ahead. In 60 years, few Lifetime naturals can even look as good or hold as much muscle as Steve Reeves,Clarence Ross or even John Grimek.
You are delusional if you think ANY supplement you are going to buy is going to really amount to shit. That is unless you are training in a sport. Bodybuilding isn`t grueling enough to warrant such supplementation. Sorry.
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True Adonis is right. It just ain't gonna do much to micromanage your nutrients like that. There may be a small effect but it would take years to manifest as even a small amount of muscle. If you eat carbs and protein somewhat evenly spaced throughout the day you are going to have aminos and glucose flowing in your bloodstream at all times anyway. I like the convinience of protein and carb shakes but I don't kid myself: it won't do anything meat and potatoes don't.
BTW, some kids were asking on Mayhem how come Ronnie doesn't have a shake immediately after training? He eats a solid meal within an hour after training instead. Isn't a carb/protein shake an absolute must after training?? LOL. I think Chad said it don't matter as he has eaten before training and he eats within an hour anyway hahaha.
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hahahha listen to all of this bullshit.
You guys act like a couple of hour sessions in the gym a week is killing you that you need something so powerful(when it reality it isn`t) to help you recover.hahahah
Newsflash, you aren`t doing anything THAT strenuous where you are catabolic. NOT AT ALL!
A marathon runner,swimmer,endurance athlete may benefit from this type of supplementation but not a bodybuilder unless he was to spend hours daily in the gym...We don`t see that happening much.
Even then it still wouldn`t really matter. I have yet to see a groundbreaking natural bodybuilder. One that, because of supplementation, is so far ahead. In 60 years, few Lifetime naturals can even look as good or hold as much muscle as Steve Reeves,Clarence Ross or even John Grimek.
You are delusional if you think ANY supplement you are going to buy is going to really amount to shit. That is unless you are training in a sport. Bodybuilding isn`t grueling enough to warrant such supplementation. Sorry.
Adonis if you were to see a "groundbreaking" natural now a days would you even believe they are natural?
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Honestly, Milos overcomplicates things to an incredible degree which seems to do more harm than good. His clients seem to either never improve or get progressively worse, especially when it comes to the day of the show. Case in point is DJ and Luke Wood. Both looked better before being mangled by Milos and have since gotten steadily worse. Both look great 3-4 weeks before a show and look relatively awful during the actual contest they are supposed to have been prepped for by Milos. I am going to go out on a limb here and say he consistently overdiets the shit out of his clients and then puts them through some ridiculously complex last minute drying out/carbing up protocol, which clearly doesn't work.
In short making up super complicated crap might give you the appearance of being cutting edge when in fact you are a hack who is just overcomplicating stuff. If you are consuming more calories than you are burning and getting progressively stronger you will grow. Look at Ronnie Coleman and how complicated his fucking training protocol is: lift big ass weight, eat, sleep, and repeat. Who would pay Milos the ridiculous sum of $200-300 an hour for such simple advice though? Nobody, so Milos makes up fancy shit to dazzle them into forking over the big bucks for a bunch of bullshit. Milos is like MuscleTech personified.
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it's liquefied D-bol.
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Honestly, Milos overcomplicates things to an incredible degree which seems to do more harm than good. His clients seem to either never improve or get progressively worse, especially when it comes to the day of the show. Case in point is DJ and Luke Wood. Both looked better before being mangled by Milos and have since gotten steadily worse. Both look great 3-4 weeks before a show and look relatively awful during the actual contest they are supposed to have been prepped for by Milos. I am going to go out on a limb here and say he consistently overdiets the shit out of his clients and then puts them through some ridiculously complex last minute drying out/carbing up protocol, which clearly doesn't work.
In short making up super complicated crap might give you the appearance of being cutting edge when in fact you are a hack who is just overcomplicating stuff. If you are consuming more calories than you are burning and getting progressively stronger you will grow. Look at Ronnie Coleman and how complicated his fucking training protocol is: lift big ass weight, eat, sleep, and repeat. Who would pay Milos the ridiculous sum of $200-300 an hour for such simple advice though? Nobody, so Milos makes up fancy shit to dazzle them into forking over the big bucks for a bunch of bullshit. Milos is like MuscleTech personified.
Well, who would pay Chad 10% of the winnings for a contest prep? Ronnie? Yes...lol...and many other big names
Once you have Ronnie other clients just fall into place and you look like a wizard. The truth is Chad is a schmoe just like Milos and everyone else. All their experience comes from simple trial and error. If you experiment long enough with diuretic and carb-up programs you will learn some things. Thats just the tip of the iceberg but you get the idea. They dont have any real, solid medical background or education. It's pretty hard to go wrong with a genetic freak like Ronnie anyway. What fantastic marketing for a snake oil voodoo doctor such as Chad.
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Well, who would pay Chad 10% of the winnings for a contest prep? Ronnie? Yes...lol...and many other big names
Once you have Ronnie other clients just fall into place and you look like a wizard. The truth is Chad is a schmoe just like Milos and everyone else. All their experience comes from simple trial and error. If you experiment long enough with diuretic and carb-up programs you will learn some things. Thats just the tip of the iceberg but you get the idea. They dont have any real, solid medical background or education. It's pretty hard to go wrong with a genetic freak like Ronnie anyway. What fantastic marketing for a snake oil voodoo doctor such as Chad.
Oh I agree, Chad is nearly as bad as Milos, but he has managed to actually prep a client successfully a couple times which is something Milos can't say. Chad's success rate is bad while Milos' is horrific. Granted non of Milos' clients have lost kidneys yet. Either way I wouldn't touch either of them with a ten foot pole when it comes to diet or training
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Yeah right. Like a supplement will do anything. Natural training has not progressed in the last 60 years even. The natural bodybuilders of the 40s carry the same size as todays top naturals.
The only thing you are going to revolutionize is a quicker way to scam some dollars off of naive children and delusional weightlifters.
you seriously do not believe supplements work? WOW youare more delusional then i thought i can name at least a dozen that are great
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Well, who would pay Chad 10% of the winnings for a contest prep? Ronnie? Yes...lol...and many other big names
Once you have Ronnie other clients just fall into place and you look like a wizard. The truth is Chad is a schmoe just like Milos and everyone else. All their experience comes from simple trial and error. If you experiment long enough with diuretic and carb-up programs you will learn some things. Thats just the tip of the iceberg but you get the idea. They dont have any real, solid medical background or education. It's pretty hard to go wrong with a genetic freak like Ronnie anyway. What fantastic marketing for a snake oil voodoo doctor such as Chad.
so true
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;D ;D ;D
What else to expect than normal "GETBIG" responses...(even mother Theresa would be questioned for her morals by some of you...so I really have nothing to complain...)
Few did mention Vitargo and I can tell you that much - Vitargo IS just ONE of the components - everything else is just a bit more complicated...as it has to be VERY SPECIFIC.
I will explain and PROVE validity of all the claims my company will be making about these specific drinks.
Certainly, I cannot win on this board even if I claim that grass is green and/or sky is blue...so I will let the color blind "tear me appart" as they always do ;)...
But for every "getbiger" suffering from daltonism there are numerous open minded people with "clear vision" that might consider opening their eyes and looking in the right direction... ;D
For those people who would be interested to hear what my company has to say about the products we are about to make - I can promise one thing: YOU WOULD NOT BE DISSAPOINTED...
For the "usual sceptics" - oh well...when you see what happens to the "others" (people that will try my "magic potions") - you might change your mind...Until than - enjoy your "positive outlook on life"...and DO NOT drink water if you are thirsty or severely dehydrated...After all water must be(!?) also "overrated" ::)
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Milos I will say this: I will be very surprised if it contains anything novel or is in any way revolutionary like you say. I'm sure there will be glutamine, some form of creatine, BCAAs etc. Maybe you will even put a little sodium in there to improve the effects.
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Honestly, Milos overcomplicates things to an incredible degree which seems to do more harm than good. His clients seem to either never improve or get progressively worse, especially when it comes to the day of the show. Case in point is DJ and Luke Wood. Both looked better before being mangled by Milos and have since gotten steadily worse. Both look great 3-4 weeks before a show and look relatively awful during the actual contest they are supposed to have been prepped for by Milos. I am going to go out on a limb here and say he consistently overdiets the shit out of his clients and then puts them through some ridiculously complex last minute drying out/carbing up protocol, which clearly doesn't work.
In short making up super complicated crap might give you the appearance of being cutting edge when in fact you are a hack who is just overcomplicating stuff. If you are consuming more calories than you are burning and getting progressively stronger you will grow. Look at Ronnie Coleman and how complicated his fucking training protocol is: lift big ass weight, eat, sleep, and repeat. Who would pay Milos the ridiculous sum of $200-300 an hour for such simple advice though? Nobody, so Milos makes up fancy shit to dazzle them into forking over the big bucks for a bunch of bullshit. Milos is like MuscleTech personified.
Firstly please answer me this! How on gods green earth can you say Milos has "MANGLED" me or Dennis for that matter?? How have we got worse since being with him?? Before i came to Milos i had done 4 pro shows. The first one. Dieted from 275 to 225! over dieted. The second one. 275 to 228! over dieted. The 3rd one. 280 to 230 over dieted. the 4th one 290 to 230. over dieted! The 5th one (under Milos) dieted from 280 to 250! now i see a pattern here. I have improved out site since being with Milos. After NY last year i made the decision to do another 3 shows and 3 guest appearances and burnt myself out! Not Milos doing at all, but myself pushing the envelop to far. My worst showing was in Texas and i was still 244lbs. Now remember, i live in Australia. Before i left the US last year in November Milos and myself say down and constructed a plan for the NY pro show this year. I hit an offseason of 285lbs and was still only 9% BF due to Milos's advice. I dieted for NY in Australia and came to Milos 3 weeks out of NY show and was 264lbs and peeled! READY! All this was Milos and his advice over the phone and over the net. I would sent pictures and he would tell me what to do. I am still trying to figure out how Milos has made me go backwards?? Now as i have said 50 times before but 1 more time i will say, i came down with a severe urinary tract infection 1 week out of the NY show which in turn cause me to go through endless nites sleep and incredible pain on stage. I suppose this was Milos fault as well? I might go and jump off the Empire state building and is that Milos's fault as well. The promblem here is, alot of guys blame there GURO for there mishaps, but never look at how much they are the ones who have really stuffed up! in this case it was just very bad luck and very bad timing!
You say who would pay $200-$300 for simple advice from Milos?? where is your evidence that Milos's advice is simple?? Have you seen him before and sat down with him? do you know anyone who has? if so, who? If you are going by the advice Milos gives on this forum as his sole knowledge, than you are very mistaken! This is only absolute basics on this forum you read. Milos is a professional and this is his job. So it would be very unfair to for him to go into great detail about nutrition and training and people pay him good money to get this advice! and i have NEVER seen one who takes this advice go backwards!
My advice to you is put your money where your mouth is and give him a try! The investment will be HUGE!
-
;D ;D ;D
What else to expect than normal "GETBIG" responses...(even mother Theresa would be questioned for her morals by some of you...so I really have nothing to complain...)
Few did mention Vitargo and I can tell you that much - Vitargo IS just ONE of the components - everything else is just a bit more complicated...as it has to be VERY SPECIFIC.
I will explain and PROVE validity of all the claims my company will be making about these specific drinks.
Certainly, I cannot win on this board even if I claim that grass is green and/or sky is blue...so I will let the color blind "tear me appart" as they always do ;)...
But for every "getbiger" suffering from daltonism there are numerous open minded people with "clear vision" that might consider opening their eyes and looking in the right direction... ;D
For those people who would be interested to hear what my company has to say about the products we are about to make - I can promise one thing: YOU WOULD NOT BE DISSAPOINTED...
For the "usual sceptics" - oh well...when you see what happens to the "others" (people that will try my "magic potions") - you might change your mind...Until than - enjoy your "positive outlook on life"...and DO NOT drink water if you are thirsty or severely dehydrated...After all water must be(!?) also "overrated" ::)
Is it the American version of Vitargo?
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Say what you want supplements are all garbage and will not do anything really. I have yet to see any NATURAL WAY AHEAD of the NATURALS 50-60 YEARS AGO.
They are at the same level as todays top Naturals.
Proof that supplementation has done next to nothing.
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Say what you want supplements are all garbage and will not do anything really. I have yet to see any NATURAL WAY AHEAD of the NATURALS 50-60 YEARS AGO.
They are at the same level as todays top Naturals.
Proof that supplementation has done next to nothing.
your inbred aren't you your like one of those handicapped kids with retard strength right?
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your inbred aren't you your like one of those handicapped kids with retard strength right?
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! OMG i have tears in my eyes
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your inbred aren't you your like one of those handicapped kids with retard strength right?
Again, show me some Naturals that BLOW AWAY Steve Reeves,Clarence Ross or John Grimek due to supplementation and modern methods.
You can`t.
You obviously know nothing about bodybuilding. You just know how to inject and use recreational drugs like your heros, Craig Titus and Kamali.
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Adonis owns this thread. No current naturals blow those guys away. Case closed.
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(http://www.ifbb.com/halloffame/2000/ClarenceRoss2.jpg)
Clarence Ross
(http://www.musclememory.com/images/vintage/RossClarence_2.jpg)
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Ross was awesome
However he was fairly unique in those days
Im not saying there are better now but there is alot more guys maybe without the genetics walking round at that sort of size
you can see decent sized guys in most gyms now
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Ross was awesome
However he was fairly unique in those days
Im not saying there are better now but there is alot more guys maybe without the genetics walking round at that sort of size
you can see decent sized guys in most gyms now
I can`t seem to find many top naturals even today that Outclass Clarence Ross.
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What about ALEXXX ?
;D
Soon my friend I will be bigger. Right now my condition and muscle shape is better. :)
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Again, show me some Naturals that BLOW AWAY Steve Reeves,Clarence Ross or John Grimek due to supplementation and modern methods.
You can`t.
You obviously know nothing about bodybuilding. You just know how to inject and use recreational drugs like your heros, Craig Titus and Kamali.
grimek used dbol it was admitted in musclemag or one of those years ago
someone else pointed out reeves adviced people on steroid use
do a little research and you will realize how long steroids have been around adn how many there are theonly thing the germans did that was worth anything dureing the time of hitler was come up with over 200 various steroids esters and derivatives (half f todays "pro-steroids" supplements are these substances
adonis you obviously have zero clue what youare talking about juice has been around longer then suppkements and the suppkements today have science to back them up
science would be one of the main classes you would have had in school
sorry to say your heros of yester-year were juiced too the ony one i believe wasn;t was jack la lanne (guys a freak)
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grimek used dbol it was admitted in musclemag or one of those years ago
someone else pointed out reeves adviced people on steroid use
do a little research and you will realize how long steroids have been around adn how many there are theonly thing the germans did that was worth anything dureing the time of hitler was come up with over 200 various steroids esters and derivatives (half f todays "pro-steroids" supplements are these substances
adonis you obviously have zero clue what youare talking about juice has been around longer then suppkements and the suppkements today have science to back them up
science would be one of the main classes you would have had in school
sorry to say your heros of yester-year were juiced too the ony one i believe wasn;t was jack la lanne (guys a freak)
You fucking IDIOT. Dianabol wasn`t even invented when John Grimek was competing.
God you are stupid. You don`t even deserve to be a bodybuilder.
Height 5'8"
Weight 195
Born June 17, 1910 Perth Amboy, New Jersey
Died November 20, 1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1939
York Perfect Man, Overall Winner
York Perfect Man, Medium, 1st
1940
Mr America - AAU, Most Muscular, 1st
Mr America - AAU, Winner
1941
Mr America - AAU, Winner
1946
Most Muscular Man in America, Winner
1948
Mr Universe - NABBA, Medium, 1st
Mr Universe - NABBA, Winner
1949
Mr USA, Winner
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Dzulboy, you have been owned.
You don`t know shit about bodybuilding or its history.
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Additonally, most independent scientific studies done on various supplements, such as Glutamine, have found no evidence of its/their effectiveness.
-
Adonis do you take any supplements and if so what ?
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Yes glutamine is horseshit.
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dzulboy, you say "supplements today have science to back them up"
Back what up? The fact that their results are miniscule and a waste of money? One needn't have a phd in biochemistry to know that.
I drink protein powder, as it's easier than sitting down to a prepared meal. But it's results won't benefit me any more than clean food, and damn sure isn't gonna make me look like Ronnie Coleman.
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Adonis do you take any supplements and if so what ?
Protein Powder, the cheapest possible usually which is the GNC brand or the Vitamin Shoppe brand.
They meet their label claims and taste pretty good.
I use protein because it is simply a food supplement and cuts down on the cooking and is convienent. Its not necessary though. Just makes things easier.
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Protein Powder, the cheapest possible usually which is the GNC brand or the Vitamin Shoppe brand.
They meet their label claims and taste pretty good.
I use protein because it is simply a food supplement and cuts down on the cooking and is convienent. Its not necessary though. Just makes things easier.
Adonis, there are a few supplements that are worthwhile. Creatine is definitely a supplement everyone who trains should give a try. And there have been thousands of studies done to verify it's effectiveness. Glutamine is one for me that has never lived up to the hype, but I've seen too many people make good solid gains on creatine.
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dzulboy, you say "supplements today have science to back them up"
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I saw an advert where Greg Kovacs said he got to 350lbs by taking muscletech products
If thats not convincing science i dont know what is
How else could a natural bodybuilder like Kovacs get so big ;D
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I had taken a two year layoff from supps and in the meanwhile concentrated on rest, training, diet ect instead..I have to say that I am at my strongest, leanest and biggest... with the upcoming Mr. Getbig coming up I found it an oppurtune time to get an extra 'lift' buy spending some loot on supps... So I got the GNC brand whey (taste good!) MultiVitamins (which i have been taken forever...even during the break), Glutamine, Creatine, and BCAAs ...notihng like Gakic or NO2 .... I drink good amount of coffee throughout the day with skim milk no sugar...so I dont take a fat burner per se ...that about it..
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I agree with the multi-vitamins
I dont think you can look beyond quality food, id take a couple of chicken breasts over a protein shake anyday
I wasted too much money on all that shit when i started out and did not know any better
The supplement companies don't deserve the money after all the scams they have pulled
Myostatin blockers please!
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I had taken a two year layoff from supps and in the meanwhile concentrated on rest, training, diet ect instead..I have to say that I am at my strongest, leanest and biggest... with the upcoming Mr. Getbig coming up I found it an oppurtune time to get an extra 'lift' buy spending some loot on supps... So I got the GNC brand whey (taste good!) MultiVitamins (which i have been taken forever...even during the break), Glutamine, Creatine, and BCAAs ...notihng like Gakic or NO2 .... I drink good amount of coffee throughout the day with skim milk no sugar...so I dont take a fat burner per se ...that about it..
hahhha the GNC salesman owned you.
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hahhha the GNC salesman owned you.
Creatine, i had from someone else ...I been had glutamine for free from my brother... the protein was only 11.99, the Bcaa were only 13 bucks and cause the second one was half off it came to 18 bucks in total..thats like two drinks in the city, i piss 18 bucks...im burning a 20 dollar bill right now . Now if I bout up to 100 bucks worth of Muscletech shit then yes that is an owning but not 18 bucks ..hahha your money is short
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(http://www.ifbb.com/halloffame/2000/ClarenceRoss2.jpg)
The May/June 1949 issue of Ironman has an article by Lee Ward (Ross' training partner according to the article) that tells of 3 hour workouts done Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Here is the outline of Ross' workout given at the end of the article and another pic of Ross.
(http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10327.0;id=13941;image)
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I could sit here n argue with Adonis, but he argues like a second grader..."its right because i said so!" . Ok now since he cant logically argue with me he will go into bashing me and my friends.... thats his only way to win because he has no real merit behind anything he says.
So im just gonna post a link for ya with pictures of the overall winner of the Team U who was polygraphed and piss tested clean..... and he doesnt diet for the show and he looks like this all year long, believe me iv seen him at different points of the year and he always looks like this.
http://www.graphicmuscle.com/index.cfm?go2=contests_competitor&CompetitorID=9511
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The guy looks about 4'10" and still doesn't blow away the guys Adonis mentioned from decades ago. Definitely looks very good though, deserves props.
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http://www.d-blade.com/
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/testost/story.htm
Years of often extraordinary investigations culminated in the production of synthetic testosterone in 1935. The success of Butenandt and Ruzicka earnt them the 1935 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. And so, the modern persona of this hefty hormone was launched.
First link shows that D-bol was discovered within Clancy Ross' time and could possibly have used it.
The second link shows that testosterone itself was discovered before Ross had ever competed, and it was available to him.
Not sure where Adonis got his info from regarding contest history, but here is what Muscle Memory had:
http://musclememory.com/show.php
1945
Mr America - AAU, Winner
Mr America - AAU, Most Muscular, 1st
1946
Pro Mr America, Winner
1948
Mr USA, Winner
1949
North American Championships - IFBB, Winner
Mr USA, 2nd
1955
Universe - Pro - NABBA, Tall, 1st
1956
Mr USA, 2nd
And here is his magazine appearances, all the way to the 90's.
1945 August Strength and Health
1945 October Vol 5, Num 4 Your Physique
1946 December Vol 2, Num 2 Muscle Power
1947 July Strength and Health
1947 October Vol 8, Num 1 Your Physique
1947 December Vol 2, Num 12 Chicago Bodybuilder
1948 February Vol 4, Num 5 Muscle Power
1948 June Vol 9, Num 3 Your Physique
1948 July Vol 8, Num 2 IronMan
1948 July Vol 6, Num 2 Muscle Power
1948 December Vol 7, Num 1 Muscle Power
1949 June Vol 8, Num 1 Muscle Power
1949 June Vol 11, Num 3 Your Physique
1950 January Vol 10, Num 1 IronMan
1950 January Vol 9, Num 2 Muscle Power
1950 April Vol 13, Num 1 Your Physique
1950 October Vol 10, Num 5 Muscle Power
1950 October Vol 14, Num 1 Your Physique
1951 June Vol 12, Num 1 Muscle Power
1951 August Vol 15, Num 5 Your Physique
1951 December Vol 16, Num 3 Your Physique
1952 Vol 1, Num 3 Mr Universe
1952 February Vol 81, Num 4 Health and Strength
1952 July Vol 17, Num 4 Your Physique
1952 October Vol 14, Num 5 Muscle Power
1953 Vol 1, Num 8 Mr Universe
1953 March Vol 15, Num 4 Muscle Power
1953 April Vol 12, Num 5 IronMan
1953 October Vol 1, Num 3 Muscle Builder
1953 December Vol 1, Num 4 Muscle Builder
1954 January Vol 16, Num 5 Muscle Power
1954 March Reg Park Journal
1954 June Vol 17, Num 5 Muscle Power
1954 December Vol 3, Num 5 Muscle Builder
1955 April Vol 4, Num 3 Muscle Builder
1955 June Vol 18, Num 5 Muscle Power
1955 September Vol 9, Num 9 The Bodybuilder
1956 March Vol 19, Num 2 Muscle Power
1956 November Vol 85, Num 24 Health and Strength
1957 November Vol 20, Num 8 Muscle Power
1958 March Vol 87, Num 7 Health and Strength
1958 October Vol 1, Num 6 Muscle Builder
1959 June Vol 2, Num 4 Muscle Sculpture
1963 March Vol 13, Num 5 Muscle Builder
1995 January Vol 6, Num 4 Hardgainer
1996 April Vol 122, Num 2 Health and Strength
So, Adonis, Clancy very well could have used juice. Not to the extent that others do today, but it is known that Bill Pearl used. So if Pearl used, you think the rest of the group would be clean as your boyfriends dick? ::)
-
http://www.d-blade.com/
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/testost/story.htm
Years of often extraordinary investigations culminated in the production of synthetic testosterone in 1935. The success of Butenandt and Ruzicka earnt them the 1935 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. And so, the modern persona of this hefty hormone was launched.
First link shows that D-bol was discovered within Clancy Ross' time and could possibly have used it.
The second link shows that testosterone itself was discovered before Ross had ever competed, and it was available to him.
Not sure where Adonis got his info from regarding contest history, but here is what Muscle Memory had:
http://musclememory.com/show.php
1945
Mr America - AAU, Winner
Mr America - AAU, Most Muscular, 1st
1946
Pro Mr America, Winner
1948
Mr USA, Winner
1949
North American Championships - IFBB, Winner
Mr USA, 2nd
1955
Universe - Pro - NABBA, Tall, 1st
1956
Mr USA, 2nd
And here is his magazine appearances, all the way to the 90's.
1945 August Strength and Health
1945 October Vol 5, Num 4 Your Physique
1946 December Vol 2, Num 2 Muscle Power
1947 July Strength and Health
1947 October Vol 8, Num 1 Your Physique
1947 December Vol 2, Num 12 Chicago Bodybuilder
1948 February Vol 4, Num 5 Muscle Power
1948 June Vol 9, Num 3 Your Physique
1948 July Vol 8, Num 2 IronMan
1948 July Vol 6, Num 2 Muscle Power
1948 December Vol 7, Num 1 Muscle Power
1949 June Vol 8, Num 1 Muscle Power
1949 June Vol 11, Num 3 Your Physique
1950 January Vol 10, Num 1 IronMan
1950 January Vol 9, Num 2 Muscle Power
1950 April Vol 13, Num 1 Your Physique
1950 October Vol 10, Num 5 Muscle Power
1950 October Vol 14, Num 1 Your Physique
1951 June Vol 12, Num 1 Muscle Power
1951 August Vol 15, Num 5 Your Physique
1951 December Vol 16, Num 3 Your Physique
1952 Vol 1, Num 3 Mr Universe
1952 February Vol 81, Num 4 Health and Strength
1952 July Vol 17, Num 4 Your Physique
1952 October Vol 14, Num 5 Muscle Power
1953 Vol 1, Num 8 Mr Universe
1953 March Vol 15, Num 4 Muscle Power
1953 April Vol 12, Num 5 IronMan
1953 October Vol 1, Num 3 Muscle Builder
1953 December Vol 1, Num 4 Muscle Builder
1954 January Vol 16, Num 5 Muscle Power
1954 March Reg Park Journal
1954 June Vol 17, Num 5 Muscle Power
1954 December Vol 3, Num 5 Muscle Builder
1955 April Vol 4, Num 3 Muscle Builder
1955 June Vol 18, Num 5 Muscle Power
1955 September Vol 9, Num 9 The Bodybuilder
1956 March Vol 19, Num 2 Muscle Power
1956 November Vol 85, Num 24 Health and Strength
1957 November Vol 20, Num 8 Muscle Power
1958 March Vol 87, Num 7 Health and Strength
1958 October Vol 1, Num 6 Muscle Builder
1959 June Vol 2, Num 4 Muscle Sculpture
1963 March Vol 13, Num 5 Muscle Builder
1995 January Vol 6, Num 4 Hardgainer
1996 April Vol 122, Num 2 Health and Strength
So, Adonis, Clancy very well could have used juice. Not to the extent that others do today, but it is known that Bill Pearl used. So if Pearl used, you think the rest of the group would be clean as your boyfriends dick? ::)
Clearly you know nothing of Clancy Ross or any of the old guys. You need to do some more research in regards to when Steroids were first implemented.
Clancy was competing in the 40s and 50s. No drugs were used PERIOD. End of story. There is not one single documented case of any of these guys using anything by anyone.
Furhtermore Grimek was winning shows when testosterone wasn`t even developed.
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Grimek was also an Olympic lifter.
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Firstly please answer me this! How on gods green earth can you say Milos has "MANGLED" me or Dennis for that matter?? How have we got worse since being with him?? Before i came to Milos i had done 4 pro shows. The first one. Dieted from 275 to 225! over dieted. The second one. 275 to 228! over dieted. The 3rd one. 280 to 230 over dieted. the 4th one 290 to 230. over dieted! The 5th one (under Milos) dieted from 280 to 250! now i see a pattern here. I have improved out site since being with Milos. After NY last year i made the decision to do another 3 shows and 3 guest appearances and burnt myself out! Not Milos doing at all, but myself pushing the envelop to far. My worst showing was in Texas and i was still 244lbs. Now remember, i live in Australia. Before i left the US last year in November Milos and myself say down and constructed a plan for the NY pro show this year. I hit an offseason of 285lbs and was still only 9% BF due to Milos's advice. I dieted for NY in Australia and came to Milos 3 weeks out of NY show and was 264lbs and peeled! READY! All this was Milos and his advice over the phone and over the net. I would sent pictures and he would tell me what to do. I am still trying to figure out how Milos has made me go backwards?? Now as i have said 50 times before but 1 more time i will say, i came down with a severe urinary tract infection 1 week out of the NY show which in turn cause me to go through endless nites sleep and incredible pain on stage. I suppose this was Milos fault as well? I might go and jump off the Empire state building and is that Milos's fault as well. The promblem here is, alot of guys blame there GURO for there mishaps, but never look at how much they are the ones who have really stuffed up! in this case it was just very bad luck and very bad timing!
You say who would pay $200-$300 for simple advice from Milos?? where is your evidence that Milos's advice is simple?? Have you seen him before and sat down with him? do you know anyone who has? if so, who? If you are going by the advice Milos gives on this forum as his sole knowledge, than you are very mistaken! This is only absolute basics on this forum you read. Milos is a professional and this is his job. So it would be very unfair to for him to go into great detail about nutrition and training and people pay him good money to get this advice! and i have NEVER seen one who takes this advice go backwards!
My advice to you is put your money where your mouth is and give him a try! The investment will be HUGE!
Luke,
You seem like a legitimately nice guy and I am not trying to attack you here. You have, on contest day, LOOKED progressively worse since working with Milos. I don't care if you weighed more or not because that doesn't actually matter as the judges aren't busting out a scale and determining who places where based on weight. Dennis James went from placing top 5 in the Olympia a couple years ago to limping into the top 5 at the New York Pro this year, do you consider this to be progress? I beleive your placings have been getting progressively worse but I don't have the numbers on hand. Where did you place in your first US show versus your last? Have your placings gotten better or not? Once again I am not trying to attack you here. Milos yes, you no.
In response to your last paragraph you have completely missed my point. I am saying Milos makes things excessively complicated in an effort to validate the fees he charges not that his advice is simple. Reread what I wrote and you will see that is what I was indicating.
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Clearly you know nothing of Clancy Ross or any of the old guys. You need to do some more research in regards to when Steroids were first implemented.
Clancy was competing in the 40s and 50s. No drugs were used PERIOD. End of story. There is not one single documented case of any of these guys using anything by anyone.
Furhtermore Grimek was winning shows when testosterone wasn`t even developed.
Adonis you need to learn your history first -- D-bol was released by Ciga Pharmaceuticals in 1958 after its initial development a few years earlier, its not impossible at all that some of these guys used back then considering it was the drugs creator that brought it to the York gym crowd before it was released as a pharm drug -->
"The godfather of steroids was a rough-and-tumble Maryland physician named John Bosley Ziegler. Ziegler practiced medicine in Olney, Md. and conducted chemistry research at a company called Ciba Pharmaceuticals. A big, fleshy former Marine who answered to the nickname "Montana Jack," Ziegler loved to pump iron. During his long sessions at the gym, he befriended several bodybuilders associated with the York (Pa.) Barbell Club.
In the 1950s, York was at the center of American fitness training, and Bob Hoffman was the movement's spiritual leader. Hoffman, who competed with Joe Weider and Charles Atlas for the title of America's main muscleman, also ran the York Barbell Co. "I am proud that I am a builder of men," he wrote in the 1939 book Weight Lifting. The men he built included such famed old-time strongmen as John Grimek, John Davis, and Paul Anderson.
Hoffman figured that Ziegler's scientific credentials would prove useful in supplementing his bodybuilding theories, and Ziegler soon became a vital part of the York entourage. In 1954, Ziegler went with his York buddies to the World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria, as the team's doctor.
Upon returning to the United States, Ziegler started administering straight testosterone shots to selected York weightlifters. But these experiments proved unsatisfactory—strength gains were negligible, and the bodybuilders complained that the shots made them feel strange. Ziegler kept tinkering in an attempt to synthesize a substance with testosterone's strength-building attributes but none of the pesky side effects. In 1958, Ciba Pharmaceuticals unleashed his creation: methandrostenolone, which the company marketed as Dianabol."
...sure sounds a little more likely to me when you look at the history, feel free to post something showing the contrary...
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you seriously do not believe supplements work? WOW youare more delusional then i thought i can name at least a dozen that are great
Name em. Pretty much all are bullshit in my opinion.
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Supplements are shit eat real food and save your money
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Milos' advice is bullshit too, save your money. Just lift, eat well, and take steroids if you want to be as big as Milos, just like he did. You may not be able to look as good due to genetics, not because you don't possess his 'incredible knowledge'.
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Adonis you need to learn your history first -- D-bol was released by Ciga Pharmaceuticals in 1958 after its initial development a few years earlier, its not impossible at all that some of these guys used back then considering it was the drugs creator that brought it to the York gym crowd before it was released as a pharm drug -->
"The godfather of steroids was a rough-and-tumble Maryland physician named John Bosley Ziegler. Ziegler practiced medicine in Olney, Md. and conducted chemistry research at a company called Ciba Pharmaceuticals. A big, fleshy former Marine who answered to the nickname "Montana Jack," Ziegler loved to pump iron. During his long sessions at the gym, he befriended several bodybuilders associated with the York (Pa.) Barbell Club.
In the 1950s, York was at the center of American fitness training, and Bob Hoffman was the movement's spiritual leader. Hoffman, who competed with Joe Weider and Charles Atlas for the title of America's main muscleman, also ran the York Barbell Co. "I am proud that I am a builder of men," he wrote in the 1939 book Weight Lifting. The men he built included such famed old-time strongmen as John Grimek, John Davis, and Paul Anderson.
Hoffman figured that Ziegler's scientific credentials would prove useful in supplementing his bodybuilding theories, and Ziegler soon became a vital part of the York entourage. In 1954, Ziegler went with his York buddies to the World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria, as the team's doctor.
Upon returning to the United States, Ziegler started administering straight testosterone shots to selected York weightlifters. But these experiments proved unsatisfactory—strength gains were negligible, and the bodybuilders complained that the shots made them feel strange. Ziegler kept tinkering in an attempt to synthesize a substance with testosterone's strength-building attributes but none of the pesky side effects. In 1958, Ciba Pharmaceuticals unleashed his creation: methandrostenolone, which the company marketed as Dianabol."
...sure sounds a little more likely to me when you look at the history, feel free to post something showing the contrary...
Waste of time.....In regards to Steve Reeves, he was retired way before this shit was invented. So even him ,it does not apply....Face it. They were natural....End of story.
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Name em. Pretty much all are bullshit in my opinion.
Creatine, BCAA's, Leucine, Arachidonic Acid, Caffeine, Ephedra, Yohimbe, Green Tea, Fish Oil, Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids, EAA's, 6-OXO......there are others
Do any of them equate steroids? Nope, but they do work
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Waste of time.....In regards to Steve Reeves, he was retired way before this shit was invented. So even him ,it does not apply....Face it. They were natural....End of story.
meltdown.
"Bob Hoffman and his bodybuilders were already accustomed to popping supplements. Hoffman made millions peddling a soy-based protein powder called Hi-Proteen, and Barbell Club members were heavy users of the stuff. It didn't take much persuading for them to give John Ziegler's pills a try."b]
Who cares about Reeves, I'm talking about the rest, if the drug was "officially" released in 1958, that means Ziegler was making his own home brewed pills and passing it out to your idols at the York barbell club years earlier. There no such thing as a "natural", only varying degrees of chemical assistance -- you're just on the low end with your GNC factory-made protein powders.
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that was the best part about working there part-time, making commission off of suckas who believed the ads on every other page... ::)
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Waste of time.....In regards to Steve Reeves, he was retired way before this shit was invented. So even him ,it does not apply....Face it. They were natural....End of story.
PS...
RE: Steve Reeves --
"To help boost the swelling body, Marnul introduced Arnold to steroids, which were then legal. Back in the early 1960s, the trainer claims, "There was no weightlifter in the world who did not take them. You could get prescriptions for them from the doctor. Arnold never took them, though, without my super-vision."
Marnul says he learned about steroids from famed bodybuilder Steve Reeves. That name brings us to another energizing influence on Arnold: the imagery, which inspired him."
I'm still waiting for anything showing the contrary....
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PS...
RE: Steve Reeves --
"To help boost the swelling body, Marnul introduced Arnold to steroids, which were then legal. Back in the early 1960s, the trainer claims, "There was no weightlifter in the world who did not take them. You could get prescriptions for them from the doctor. Arnold never took them, though, without my super-vision."
Marnul says he learned about steroids from famed bodybuilder Steve Reeves. That name brings us to another energizing influence on Arnold: the imagery, which inspired him."
I'm still waiting for anything showing the contrary....
hahaha Kurt Marnul never made that statement...That is fiction from Wendy (Leigh) slanted biography of Arnold which holds tons of lies.
Pure fiction.
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I don't want to "start" anything - but to put it nicely I have approached few of my bodybuilding heroes from the past...(out of respect I would NOT say their names)...
In our conversation I told them that I greatly respect their achievements and I expressed my opinion that IF they had what we have today...and IF they have used what bodybuilders are using today - certainly they would look EVEN better...
With the big smile couple of those "old time champions" told me: "and why do you think we didn't?"
I was in shock discovering WHAT was already used - "back in a day"....
Now, as far as supplements are concerned - only completely ignorant people (and we have just a few here on getbig...OK - I called them "color blind" before...) could make the statement that nutritional supplements are worthless.
While they are only SUPPLEMENT to someone's regular diet (solid food) they could indeed make considerable (I would even say - absolutely HUGE difference) if used soundly...Again - right nutrients in the right time MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
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The interveiw Steve and his is the question and his response :
question: " The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. Mt second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
There it is right from Steves mouth ! and he is vehemently opossed to drugs in bodybuilding , and this is why I feel Steve Reeves is the greatest bodybuilder EVER simply because he did everything naturally and his physique still stands the test of time !
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"I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s" means "he is vehemently opossed to drugs in bodybuilding"?
And also proof is just because:
"There it is right from Steves mouth"? ::)
But - Steve is ONE OF THE GREATEST BODYBUILDERS THAT EVER LIVED - without the question...
Certainly one of my idols.
And I am NOT saying that he did anything...I am just pointing out on "depth" of your analysis and "proofs"...
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Milos how did your protege do from the webisodes? Marcel?
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Great - he placed 11th at the USA...
He placed for the first time in the National level show...he will be moving up very soon...
We are debating if he should enter North American championships next...
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"I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s" means "he is vehemently opossed to drugs in bodybuilding"?
And also proof is just because:
"There it is right from Steves mouth"? ::)
Yes, it is RIGHT from his mouth and in his published book.
Proof also comes from his training partner and look at the timeline when he competed and trained versus the introduction of steroids on the bodybuilding scene.
You obviously are just as clueless about the past champions. Steve Reeves HATED the way current bodybuild became and despised all the drug use with a passion. You are on the other end of the spectrum, promoting the proliferation of drug use. You and Chad Nichols and Palumbo and the rest of the steroid advocates are ruining Bodybuilding.
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Clearly you know nothing of Clancy Ross or any of the old guys. You need to do some more research in regards to when Steroids were first implemented.
Now it's the word "implemented?" Just like you apparently flip-flopped on the Tom Prince bet, you've now changed from when something was invented to when something was implemented.
And, clearly, because I state that when a drug is invented, I have no idea about older bbers? Good generalization! ::) Just like your other generalization that "no drugs were used PERIOD."
You weren't there, you do not know if they used or not. You can't say that. But the fact that the drug was discovered and invented means it was available to them and they COULD have used it.
Here's Grimek's history:
1939
York Perfect Man, Overall Winner
York Perfect Man, Medium, 1st
1940
Mr America - AAU, Most Muscular, 1st
Mr America - AAU, Winner
1941
Mr America - AAU, Winner
1946
Most Muscular Man in America, Winner
1948
Mr Universe - NABBA, Medium, 1st
Mr Universe - NABBA, Winner
1949
Mr USA, Winner
Magazines
Vol 6, Num 2 IronMan
Vol 6, Num 6 IronMan
1935 February Num 539 La Culture Physique
1935 May Vol 3, Num 6 Strength and Health
1936 August Vol 1, Num 1 IronMan
1937 December Vol 6, Num 1 Strength and Health
1938 June Strength and Health
1939 June Strength and Health
1940 January Strength and Health
1940 April Strength and Health
1940 August Strength and Health
1940 October Strength and Health
1941 February Vol 4, Num 1 IronMan
1941 August Strength and Health
1941 October Vol 4, Num 4 IronMan
1941 December Strength and Health
1942 November Strength and Health
1943 April Strength and Health
1943 December Strength and Health
1945 January Strength and Health
1945 June Vol 5, Num 2 Your Physique
1945 September Strength and Health
1946 April Strength and Health
1947 February Strength and Health
1947 July Vol 76, Num 14 Health and Strength
1948 January Strength and Health
1948 January Vol 8, Num 4 Your Physique
1948 September Vol 77, Num 20 Health and Strength
1948 September Vol 8, Num 4 IronMan
1948 October Strength and Health
1949 May Vol 9, Num 3 IronMan
1949 May Strength and Health
1949 June Vol 4, Num 6 Chicago Bodybuilder
1949 December Vol 78, Num 24 Health and Strength
1950 February Strength and Health
1950 March Vol 79, Num 6 Health and Strength
1950 November Vol 79, Num 24 Health and Strength
1951 February Strength and Health
1952 April Vol 81, Num 7 Health and Strength
1952 April Vol 6, Num 4 The Bodybuilder
1953 February Vol 12, Num 4 IronMan
1954 January Vol 13, Num 4 IronMan
1955 June Strength and Health
1956 February Strength and Health
1956 July Vol 85, Num 15 Health and Strength
1958 February Strength and Health
1958 December Strength and Health
1962 January Vol 91, Num 2 Health and Strength
1964 January Vol 1, Num 1 Muscular Development
1965 June Strength and Health
1967 February Vol 4, Num 2 Muscular Development
1969 February Vol 6, Num 2 Muscular Development
1993 November Vol 5, Num 3 Hardgainer
1995 May Vol 54, Num 5 IronMan
1996 January Vol 122, Num 1 Health and Strength
1999 March Vol 10, Num 5 Hardgainer
2002 January Vol 128, Num 1 Health and Strength
Lo and behold it starts in the same year that Ross' did (According to your background check anyway), and years after testosterone was discovered.
You just cannot make the assumption that your correct and say they never used.
There's a story from MMI years back, where Vince Gironda, Bill Pearl, and numerous others were sitting around a table discussing wether to up their dosage from (I think it was) 5mg to 10mg. Nobody knew the effects it could have, but that they were getting good results so they all wanted to try to use more.
As far as Ross' workout routine, did you ever read the article regarding him in MMI about how he can't move anymore due to his joints being so fucked? He attributes this to his workout routine, saying how he used to do the same workout 3x/week and always heavy and hard. Now he regrets that, saying he'd changed it up. Just a FYI...nothing more.
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Theres no fucking story like that.
Even if there was, its just that, A STORY....PURE FICTION.
Drug use was frowned upon by Reeves,Grimek and Ross.
Gironda didn`t care for it either...They hated what they saw happeneing.
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We'll I've wasted 10min that I'll never get back.
Your as stubborn as a mule, you toad-licking douchebag elf.... go make some more cookies. :)
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Creatine, BCAA's, Leucine, Arachidonic Acid, Caffeine, Ephedra, Yohimbe, Green Tea, Fish Oil, Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids, EAA's, 6-OXO......there are others
Do any of them equate steroids? Nope, but they do work
I use whey protein (which includes Luecino and other amino acids you don't have to buy separately), vitamins, ephedra and caffeine. Everything else is junk except for creatine (which will do little).
If Milos' special supplements work so well he should make a Pro comeback and win the Mr. O. ::)
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Creatine, BCAA's, Leucine, Arachidonic Acid, Caffeine, Ephedra, Yohimbe, Green Tea, Fish Oil, Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids, EAA's, 6-OXO......there are others
Do any of them equate steroids? Nope, but they do work
Sorry, but pro steroids are steroids.
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Theres no fucking story like that.
Even if there was, its just that, A STORY....PURE FICTION.
Drug use was frowned upon by Reeves,Grimek and Ross.
Gironda didn`t care for it either...They hated what they saw happeneing.
wow.....major meltdown.
Impressive.
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Theres no fucking story like that.
Even if there was, its just that, A STORY....PURE FICTION.
Drug use was frowned upon by Reeves,Grimek and Ross.
Gironda didn`t care for it either...They hated what they saw happeneing.
Hmmm... Who to believe, Adonis and his 2nd hand stories from google searches, or Milos who talked to these old BB vets face to face... tough one ::)
Yes I'm sure they all hated it when it started turning into a circus in the mid 80's, but 30 years earlier they were all popping little pink pills like they were tic tacs...
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Hmmm... Who to believe, Adonis and his 2nd hand stories from google searches, or Milos who talked to these old BB vets face to face... tough one ::)
Yes I'm sure they all hated it when it started turning into a circus in the mid 80's, but 30 years earlier they were all popping little pink pills like they were tic tacs...
I am with you.. The motivation to be the best over time doesn't change. If any of these "iron agers" back in their day wished to have an advantage over the competition they would have been on the hormones, for sure.. TA is kidding himself if he thinks otherwise.. ::)
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Milos I know what is in your special drink, If you dont mind I will tell them exactly what is in your special drink , let me know
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Getitonny "JOHN D.
I know you know because you are the expert when it comes to custom formulations for the Pro's . Didnt you make BOB chic his custom formulation and Pre and Post ? Also I herd that you are the guru when it comes formulating bodybuilding and sports nutritional products.
I talk to Gustavo B. and he mentioned something about that also.
Peace
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In 2 weeks My company will come out with a new 3 stage product that will literally revolutionize body building supplements .It will make anything and everything ever made for before workout , preworkout , and post workout obsolete.So be prepared the Doctor is in !!!!!!
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I use whey protein (which includes Luecino and other amino acids you don't have to buy separately), vitamins, ephedra and caffeine. Everything else is junk except for creatine (which will do little).
If Milos' special supplements work so well he should make a Pro comeback and win the Mr. O. ::)
Leucine signals protein synthesis, I just started adding extra leucine to my shakes, as it is documented to lead to a greater effect on protein synthesis. Also, you should give Arachidonic Acid(X-Factor) a try. It is the best supplement I've ever tried by far. Most of it is snake oil (oral glutamine), but if you use your head you can find things that give an edge without fucking up your endocrine system.
Milos, if you are looking for anybody to do a review on your stuff on this forum, I am your man. I did a bunch of reviews for Betancourt nutrition a month or two ago.
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Betancourt nutrition That liitle tennis court company... please brotha please
You might aswell review Rite aid vitamins.
Are you a chemist what genious inovations have you brought to the sports supplement industry?
Leucine signals protein synthesis, I just started adding extra leucine to my shakes, as it is documented to lead to a greater effect on protein synthesis. Also, you should give Arachidonic Acid(X-Factor) a try. It is the best supplement I've ever tried by far. Most of it is snake oil (oral glutamine), but if you use your head you can find things that give an edge without fucking up your endocrine system.
Milos, if you are looking for anybody to do a review on your stuff on this forum, I am your man. I did a bunch of reviews for Betancourt nutrition a month or two ago.
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I saw an advert where Greg Kovacs said he got to 350lbs by taking muscletech products
If thats not convincing science i dont know what is
How else could a natural bodybuilder like Kovacs get so big ;D
I think I saw that ad too. Was that the one where he then laid down on the free weight bench press and banged out ten reps with 855lbs? I'm told that the World's Ultimate Bastion of Truth and Integrity Bob "suckmymuscle" Kennedy was there and actually weighed the bar and every plate on it afterword, thus unquestionably verifying Kovacs as THE Strongest Man of All Time - thanks to MuscleTech, of course.
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Adonis owns this thread. No current naturals blow those guys away. Case closed.
Actually....the guys of the 50's never looked like this:
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Protein Powder, the cheapest possible usually which is the GNC brand or the Vitamin Shoppe brand.
They meet their label claims and taste pretty good.
I use protein because it is simply a food supplement and cuts down on the cooking and is convienent. Its not necessary though. Just makes things easier.
Why would you possibly need protein powder when you only consume 100 a day? You can't keep your own bullshit straight. Oh and by the way, NO GIVE A SHIT ABOUT NATURAL BODYBUILDING. Get over it already.
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Milos' drink sounds like vitargo. A carbohydrate which passes through the stomach, and fills up your glycogen stores very quickly.
http://www.vitargo.com/
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Soon enough I will have 3 products available and I will spend a lot of time promoting it.
After 20+ years of training experience I am 100% convinced that the greatest opportunity for muscle growth occurs DURING and immediately after the training.
While many of you take postworkout shakes few take specific PRE and DURING the workout drinks - THAT COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
My partners and I /KOLOSEUM NUTRITIONAL SCIENCES/ will be introducing our "HYPER-ANABOLIC" PRE-DURING-POST WORKOUT DRINKS that (we hope) will revolutionize bodybuilding industry..
Then why haven't you won a major contest? ??? ??? ???
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Milos it's always great when a true champion like yourself brings a new product out.Now the Problem with anything Pros promote is,it always gets back to what they the Pros not you,"Use".So wouldn't it be good to be drug tested over 12mths while you are taking your Magic drink,just to show that the results are not from Drugs. ;D
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Really all the supps are there for one reason.....to make money for the manufacturers of them. There is no magic drink and compared to real food it is not cost effective. Maybe a good whey protein, some multi-vitamins and anti-oxidants is all you should need along with lots of good real food. The rest is just making the wallets of the sup industry fat and your's skinny.
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Actually....the guys of the 50's never looked like this:
Some looked WAY better. Wiedner is VERY narrow. His structure makes him a very good lifter though.
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Some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees. The carbs are used to keep your blood sugar from falling too low when taking insulin. DOesn't really matter what you use as long as your blood sugar doesn't go too low.
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Some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees. The carbs are used to keep your blood sugar from falling too low when taking insulin. DOesn't really matter what you use as long as your blood sugar doesn't go too low.
white bread, maltodextrin, dextrose.....= simple carbs
you people are kidding yourself if you think that 10 minutes here or there make will make that much of a difference.
focus more on stimulating/maximizing hypertrophy....on this Adonis has some valid points.
oddly enough with all of the superior supplements at our disposable what do we get? a bunch of fat guys consuming more "crap" in search of a magic pill to make then schreded.
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Some looked WAY better. Wiedner is VERY narrow. His structure makes him a very good lifter though.
Adam....the picture (width-wise) doesnt do him much justice.....I competed against him this past Sept. He isnt that narrow. Also...none of the pics of the guys from the 50's show the kind of definition Kurt displays....
On a side note....he took 3rd (i believe)....the top two looked phenomenal
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Answer is coming...2007 AD ;)
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I would guess some Gatorade+water mixed with BCAAs, Glutamine, Creatine, Vitargo and Hydrolyzed Whey.
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simple sugars in the form of dextrose/maltodextin are needed to replenish muscle glycogen after intense training....post training insulin sensitivity is also increased so the simple sugars shuttle any nutrients such as bcaa's, creatine, ect. into the muscle cells...there are many other reasons why proper post workout nutrition is so important.
you guys who think its ok just to eat a pwo solid meal are missing the boat...there is much scientific data out there about the window of opportunity and why a pwo shake is needed for optimal recovery and growth.
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simple sugars in the form of dextrose/maltodextin are needed to replenish muscle glycogen after intense training....post training insulin sensitivity is also increased so the simple sugars shuttle any nutrients such as bcaa's, creatine, ect. into the muscle cells...there are many other reasons why proper post workout nutrition is so important.
you guys who think its ok just to eat a pwo solid meal are missing the boat...there is much scientific data out there about the window of opportunity and why a pwo shake is needed for optimal recovery and growth.
I'm not saying that I totally disagree with you, but you need to ask yourself some questions. Why is it important to replenish glycogen after a workout and how does this equate to muscle growth. The average male stores about 300 grams of glycogen in the muscles and about 100 or so in the liver. How much of this are you using during a workout?? I have heard so much talk about how important the molecular weight is as far as the type of carbs used when taking insulin, but no one seems to be able to tell us why it is so important?
Protein is the main nutrient that you need to build muscle and using BCAA are IMO a good idea, but I think that too much emphasis is being put on carbs than protein. Once a muscle is damaged you need protein to rebuild. I also understand about insulin shuttling nutrients into the muscle and this is true, but there is also a huge difference in taking something like Celltech after a workout to stimulate you own insulin levels and taking 15 to 30 units of insulin a day so we may be on two different pages here.
BTW, it's not the sugar that is shuttling or acting as a carrier for the nutrients, but the insulin itself that is creating the anabolic environment and therefore giving your body the ability to repair and stimulate growth of the muscle. I have known plenty of guy to use a low carb diet and grow just the same when using insulin. As long as your essential fats are present you will grow. Remember that the carbs are there to cover the effects of low blood sugar from the insulin. I do not think that carbs are as important as people might think other than for the reasons that I have stated.. I would love to here other opinions as I am always open to knew ideas and info.
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The Milosification of bodybuilding has contributed to the embarassing physiques like Kamali and Atwood that we see on stage today. He's bad for the sport, IMO.
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I agree with Disgusted whereas, I continue to make significant gains while relying on primarily a low carb/moderate fats diet. I value his input on the difference between natural and supplemental insulin. My question is...... How important is vitargo (or any other high GI carb) for achieving the optimal anabolic state in which so many are swearing by? For somebody looking to make optimal offseason gains, should they consider this "insulin spike"? or possibly using insulin everyday?
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Adam....the picture (width-wise) doesnt do him much justice.....I competed against him this past Sept. He isnt that narrow. Also...none of the pics of the guys from the 50's show the kind of definition Kurt displays....
On a side note....he took 3rd (i believe)....the top two looked phenomenal
What does the passage of time have to do with lean ness? NOTHING! Anyone can get that lean. Anyone.
I will show you what this lean and beyond is with my next pictures to prove it. I am also eating whatever I want.
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Gravity and Ice Cream is all you need.
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What does the passage of time have to do with lean ness? NOTHING! Anyone can get that lean. Anyone.
I will show you what this lean and beyond is with my next pictures to prove it. I am also eating whatever I want.
Passage of time Adam? I was merely stating that there isnt any pictures of the guys from the 50's that look as lean as Kurt did in that pic.....thats all...
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Passage of time Adam? I was merely stating that there isnt any pictures of the guys from the 50's that look as lean as Kurt did in that pic.....thats all...
There are some out there.......While Sandow may not be as lean he was Very low. I will find you some examples of some others.
(http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/eugensandow2.jpg)
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Bobby Pandour of the Late 1800s is good as well.
(http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Pandour/pandour6.jpg)
(http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Pandour/pandour1.jpg)
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Vitargo, whey, Glutamine & Creatine. Maybe BCaas as well too.
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I'm not saying that I totally disagree with you, but you need to ask yourself some questions. Why is it important to replenish glycogen after a workout and how does this equate to muscle growth. The average male stores about 300 grams of glycogen in the muscles and about 100 or so in the liver. How much of this are you using during a workout?? I have heard so much talk about how important the molecular weight is as far as the type of carbs used when taking insulin, but no one seems to be able to tell us why it is so important?
Protein is the main nutrient that you need to build muscle and using BCAA are IMO a good idea, but I think that too much emphasis is being put on carbs than protein. Once a muscle is damaged you need protein to rebuild. I also understand about insulin shuttling nutrients into the muscle and this is true, but there is also a huge difference in taking something like Celltech after a workout to stimulate you own insulin levels and taking 15 to 30 units of insulin a day so we may be on two different pages here.
BTW, it's not the sugar that is shuttling or acting as a carrier for the nutrients, but the insulin itself that is creating the anabolic environment and therefore giving your body the ability to repair and stimulate growth of the muscle. I have known plenty of guy to use a low carb diet and grow just the same when using insulin. As long as your essential fats are present you will grow. Remember that the carbs are there to cover the effects of low blood sugar from the insulin. I do not think that carbs are as important as people might think other than for the reasons that I have stated.. I would love to here other opinions as I am always open to knew ideas and info.
Some think the cellular swelling, as a result from loading the carbs back in, acts as an anabolic signal.
Regarding insulin: it's NOT anabolic. Shooting insulin or driving it up with a bunch of fast carbs will not improve protein synthesis. It will however be anti catabolic. You only need basal levels of insulin to maximally stimulate protein synthesis.
I'd like to hear Milos' thoughts here.
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A special blend of fresh strawberries, freshly squeezed orange juice, a squeeze of lemon and a crushed up testicle from an austrian mountain goat.
hahaha maybe they don't want to know what is in it.
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I'm not saying that I totally disagree with you, but you need to ask yourself some questions. Why is it important to replenish glycogen after a workout and how does this equate to muscle growth. The average male stores about 300 grams of glycogen in the muscles and about 100 or so in the liver. How much of this are you using during a workout?? I have heard so much talk about how important the molecular weight is as far as the type of carbs used when taking insulin, but no one seems to be able to tell us why it is so important?
Protein is the main nutrient that you need to build muscle and using BCAA are IMO a good idea, but I think that too much emphasis is being put on carbs than protein. Once a muscle is damaged you need protein to rebuild. I also understand about insulin shuttling nutrients into the muscle and this is true, but there is also a huge difference in taking something like Celltech after a workout to stimulate you own insulin levels and taking 15 to 30 units of insulin a day so we may be on two different pages here.
BTW, it's not the sugar that is shuttling or acting as a carrier for the nutrients, but the insulin itself that is creating the anabolic environment and therefore giving your body the ability to repair and stimulate growth of the muscle. I have known plenty of guy to use a low carb diet and grow just the same when using insulin. As long as your essential fats are present you will grow. Remember that the carbs are there to cover the effects of low blood sugar from the insulin. I do not think that carbs are as important as people might think other than for the reasons that I have stated.. I would love to here other opinions as I am always open to knew ideas and info.
Yes it is carbs or sugar that causes the pancreas to release insulin. This is one reason why people not using exogenous insulin need carbs post work out. I mean are you saying Milos's drink is marketed at people using insulin? If thats the case then he will have very few costomers and the drink will fail. You guys think everybody is jacked on gear, GH, shooting slin and getting ready for their next show. That market is very small, please come down to the real world.
Im sure Milos wants to make a great product, he's a proud guy and Im sure as far as supps go it will be a good one. I just dont feel they are worth it compared to food. Yes they are great if you cant get any real food, cause they can be put in your pocket or something and in a pinch get you through till you can get at some food.
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Some think the cellular swelling, as a result from loading the carbs back in, acts as an anabolic signal.
Regarding insulin: it's NOT anabolic. Shooting insulin or driving it up with a bunch of fast carbs will not improve protein synthesis. It will however be anti catabolic. You only need basal levels of insulin to maximally stimulate protein synthesis.
I'd like to hear Milos' thoughts here.
Of course insulin is anabolic. All anabolic means is growth promoting. I never said that insulin increases protein synthesis, but there is clearly more gong on than just anti catabolic activity. People have gained upwards of 40 pounds using insulin, although I am not saying it is all muscle.
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Yes it is carbs or sugar that causes the pancreas to release insulin. This is one reason why people not using exogenous insulin need carbs post work out. I mean are you saying Milos's drink is marketed at people using insulin? If thats the case then he will have very few costomers and the drink will fail. You guys think everybody is jacked on gear, GH, shooting slin and getting ready for their next show. That market is very small, please come down to the real world.
Im sure Milos wants to make a great product, he's a proud guy and Im sure as far as supps go it will be a good one. I just dont feel they are worth it compared to food. Yes they are great if you cant get any real food, cause they can be put in your pocket or something and in a pinch get you through till you can get at some food.
The only way to find out who is product is marketed to is to ask him.
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Of course insulin is anabolic. All anabolic means is growth promoting. I never said that insulin increases protein synthesis, but there is clearly more gong on than just anti catabolic activity. People have gained upwards of 40 pounds using insulin, although I am not saying it is all muscle.
The second paragraph wasn't aimed at you, just a general point from my readings. They have actually tested this in studies, it's not until you reach thousands of times of physiological concetrations that it stimulates protein synthesis, and then it's due to the insulin activating igf-1 receptors. However if you stop protein degradation after workouts for example, the net effect can be more muscle so it's just a point of semantics. What I think is weird is why some report such dramatic gains from it when a 100gram dextrose shake causes higher insulin levels than a 10iu insulin injection. The reports of huge gains are a mystery to me because I've seen maybe a dozen guys use it without any gains that I could tell. Maybe a feeling fullness but that's about it. Maybe it has to be used with high dosage GH or something.
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I agree with Disgusted whereas, I continue to make significant gains while relying on primarily a low carb/moderate fats diet. I value his input on the difference between natural and supplemental insulin. My question is...... How important is vitargo (or any other high GI carb) for achieving the optimal anabolic state in which so many are swearing by? For somebody looking to make optimal offseason gains, should they consider this "insulin spike"? or possibly using insulin everyday?
OK, I would NEVER!!!! recommend anyone to take insulin, so just because I talk about people doing it doesn't mean that I recommend it. Just had to get that out of the way. :)
When you mention insulin spike I am assuming that you are meaning stimulating your own levels. This is a huge difference than when taking it exogenously. Think of it this way. Some guys will take things like tribulus to stimulate test production and while it does work it will never be the same as taking 500mg of test a week. So drinking a carb drink no matter what kind of drink it is, you are not imo getting that much benefit from it. In fact, to compare the two analogies you are probable getting less benefit from spiking insulin due to the fat stimulating properties that insulin causes. I do think however that ectomorphs can benefit from this better than most.
I have known some guy to take Celltech and gain what looks to be a decent amount of muscle, but the gains do not keep coming after the first few times you initially use it.
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The second paragraph wasn't aimed at you, just a general point from my readings. They have actually tested this in studies, it's not until you reach thousands of times of physiological concetrations that it stimulates protein synthesis, and then it's due to the insulin activating igf-1 receptors. However if you stop protein degradation after workouts for example, the net effect can be more muscle so it's just a point of semantics. What I think is weird is why some report such dramatic gains from it when a 100gram dextrose shake causes higher insulin levels than a 10iu insulin injection. The reports of huge gains are a mystery to me because I've seen maybe a dozen guys use it without any gains that I could tell. Maybe a feeling fullness but that's about it. Maybe it has to be used with high dosage GH or something.
I agree. I will be the first one to say that I do not know exactly what is going on in the body when taking insulin as far as the muscle and or weight gain. Most guys are using high doses of GH with their insulin. I actually believe this to be beneficial, but for short periods of time only.
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I`ve been saying Post-workout drinks are nonsense for a Very long time.
A bodybuilder does not do anything strenuous enough to even warrant one.
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TA what do you do post workout?
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TA what do you do post workout?
Nothing.
Just eat whenever I want.
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TA what do you do post workout?
He commands gravity into submission.
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On every board you see countless posts of people detailing precise %'s of malto, dextrose, wm, bcaas, glutamine, creatine, taurine, leucine etc that they take post workout. They seem to feel if they dont race home from the gym and instantly consume this magic concotion they will wilt away.
Novel Idea: Worry more about your entire diet and focus just as much on the other 5 or 6 quality meals you should be eating throughout the day
Question for Milos, TooPowerful4U, GetItOnNY:
What do the three of you think happens to the nutrients most trainees consume in their pre workout meal 1hr or so before training? They don't magically disappear, these nutrients will be readily available to aid in the post workout recovery process.
I've trained for many years and just like every1 else I've wasted money on useless supps and bought into the hype. I can say for a fact that there is very little difference if any between some elaborate over priced post workout formula, or mixing some cheap whey into a big glass of grape juice + eating some white potatos and chicken.
Use common sense..........the main purpose of these products are to make money they very well may be more effective than mixing some cheap whey into a big glass of grape juice + eating some white potatos and chicken postworkout.........but they won't produce a dramatic noticeable difference in your physique like some people seem to believe. The most noticeable effect will be less cash in your wallet.
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there is plenty of solid research supporting dextrose/malto/etc. pwo
Q: What are the properties of glycogen? And why are these properties so vital post workout?
A: Glycogen is a polysaccharide, (C6H10O5)n that is the main form of carbohydrate storage in animals and humans and occurs primarily in the liver and muscle tissue. It is readily converted to glucose as needed by the body to satisfy its energy needs (21), such as during intense training.
To enhance the progress of muscular strength and size with heavy-resistance body building programs, optimal conditions for recovery from training sessions are imperative, primarily glycogen re-synthesis (22).
Recovery occupies the coordinated operation of multiple physiological processes that are heavily influenced by the accessibility and actions of exclusive hormones and nutrients (16, 17).
Both qualitative and quantitative modifications in skeletal muscle contractile proteins are all supported and signaled by a horde of systematic -trophic influences from hormones to nutrient availability (18, 19).
Markedly, concentric and eccentric contractions disrupt or damage certain muscle fibers that must undertake a remodeling restoration process. Dietary nutrients, hormones, and growth factors interact to regulate this remodeling of skeletal muscle proteins (5).
One primal factor associated with muscular fatigue is depletion of muscle glycogen (1).
These stores must be replaced rapidly during the post-workout initial recovery phase in order for performance to be reproducible in a subsequent exercise bout(s).
Glycogen synthesis may be restricted by blood glucose concentration, glucose transport, and the activity of the enzymes involved in the pathway, particularly glycogen synthase (10).
Body building training programs provide conditions within skeletal muscle to support the rapid synthesis of glycogen.
Glycogen synthase action is inversely relative to glycogen intensity (23); as a result of the glycogen-depleted state post-training, skeletal muscle (24) and hepatic glycogen synthase activity are raised (13).
Basal glucose transport within skeletal muscle occurs via GLUT-4 (A powerhouse effect of insulin is the stimulation of glucose transport via the translocation of the insulin responsive glucose transporter, GLUT4, to the plasma membrane) (14).
Nevertheless, the ability of skeletal muscle to take up glucose is relative, due to adjustments in the GLUT-4 content of the sarcolemal membrane.
Image 1. Atrophic muscle fibers. The sarcolemal membranes of these two atrophic fibers have a wavy appearance. Courtesy: Department of Pathology; Virginia Commonwealth University;
There are hypothesized to be one or more intracellular pools of GLUT-4 proteins, which are translocated to the sarcolema in response to both increased insulin concentration (20) and prior exercise (9); these effects are additive (6).
In the post-workout period, therefore, muscle membrane permeability to glucose is high, thus favoring the accretion of glycogen replacement. However, if rapid carbohydrate distribution is not provided during recovery, glycogen synthesis will be limited because the rate of endogenous glucose production from gluconeogenic precursors such as alanine and glycerol is inadequate to support maximal rates of glycogen synthesis (15).
The ingestion of high GI carbohydrates increases glycogen synthesis in two ways.
The first (12) is increased substrate availability through the increased blood glucose concentration, which results in an increased glucose uptake due to mass action.
Moreover, the resultant increase in systemic insulin concentration stimulates the translocation of GLUT-4 transporters from an intracellular pool to the sarcolemal membrane (7).
The hormone insulin is also a powerful activator of glycogen synthase and inhibitor of glycogen phosphorylase (2).
The effectiveness of a specific carbohydrate in encouraging resynthesis of the carbohydrate stores is reliant on the insulin and glucose response to the carbohydrate load (4).
This is directly linked to gastric emptying and intestinal absorption rates. It is also associated with the insulinogenic potential of the carbohydrate, as indicated by the glycemic index (GI) of a carbohydrate.
The development of glycogen synthesis relies upon the accessibility of glycogenic substrate (8) and the activity of the enzymes implicated in glycogen synthesis. These include hexokinase and glycogen synthase.
Prior exercise enhances skeletal muscle glucose transport (3) because of the translocation of GLUT-4 transporters from an intracellular pool to the sarcolemal membrane.
The inclination for skeletal muscle to extort blood glucose will thus be increased, and the glucose will tend to be directed toward glycogen synthesis because glycogen synthase is activated during recovery due to the low intramuscular glycogen concentration (23).
These conditions favoring the resynthesis of glycogen can be exploited (8) by the provision of a quality carbohydrate source.
The consequential amplification in glucose availability and the insulin response to the glucose load would tend to stimulate (7) a further increase in the GLUT-4 content of the sarcolemal membrane.
Research has demonstrated (11) that there is a direct correlation between the rate of glycogen storage during recovery and total muscle GLUT-4 protein content.
On a side note, observational and empirical evidence makes it plainly obvious that the endocrinal state of the body builder post-workout is nothing like that of a sedentary individual.
A red herring argument is an attempt to offer evidence to support one proposition by arguing for a different one entirely, or dodging the main argument by going off on a tangent.
Oftentimes opponents of high GI carbohydrate supplementation post-workout will point to the dangers of excess insulin-spiking and glucose intake; however, this is a red herring argument. This claim is like comparing apples to oranges.
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I do have to say this......when I did the "norm" post workout drink (i.e. a boatload of carbs).....all I got was smoooooootthhhhhh. When I stopped that and concentrated on a p/c pre-workout type of meal....and just took in some protein with small fat in the pwo meal....I felt better and never got chunky. The whole "need to spike insulin" thing always baffled me as the only real 'killer' workouts being done are legs. How many feel absolutely like shit after say a chest and bicep workout the same way they do after a leg day?
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I do have to say this......when I did the "norm" post workout drink (i.e. a boatload of carbs).....all I got was smoooooootthhhhhh. When I stopped that and concentrated on a p/c pre-workout type of meal....and just took in some protein with small fat in the pwo meal....I felt better and never got chunky. The whole "need to spike insulin" thing always baffled me as the only real 'killer' workouts being done are legs. How many feel absolutely like shit after say a chest and bicep workout the same way they do after a leg day?
Bingo bro. Protein combined with fat will build muscle NOT carbs.
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Bingo bro. Protein combined with fat will build muscle NOT carbs.
It takes VERY little protein to build and sustain muscle as well.
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some people will continue to ignore what works and what doesnt...lol...dont let science get in the way.
take in some fat and protein in a pre workout meal forget pwo carbs...good luck.
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some people will continue to ignore what works and what doesnt...lol...dont let science get in the way.
take in some fat and protein in a pre workout meal forget pwo carbs...good luck.
The Majority of your workout is fueled by fat. Carbs second and Protein about 5 percent if that.
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About 60 percent of a weightlifting session is fueled by fats, 35 percent by carbohydrates, and 5 percent by protein, according to Essentials of Exercise Physiology.
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Jmt1 you know your stuff,nice post.But like I said, for milos to promote any natural product prove he is natural 1st.Then lets discuss,Milos formula.
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TA, you are so MASSIVE, to RIPPED, to DEFINED, that I have no choice but to agree with you...LMAO!!!!
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IT'S OUT!!
MILOS' supplement KNS (Koloseum Nutrition Sciences Inc.) will be availlable soon! Below is the press release. All you trash talkers: before you stick your feet in your mouths, you may want to try this first:
Redux Holdings Completes Acquisition of Equity Interest in Koloseum Nutritional Sciences, Inc.
LOS ANGELES, CA -- (MARKET WIRE) -- January 18, 2007 -- Redux Holdings, Inc. (PINKSHEETS: RDXH) today announced that it has successfully completed the acquisition of a thirty percent equity interest in Koloseum Nutritional Sciences, Inc. in exchange for common stock in Redux Holdings.
Koloseum Nutritional Sciences, Inc. (KNS) is a new sports nutrition company that will market, sell and distribute innovative, science-driven performance nutrition supplements within the health and fitness channels. KNS has created a unique platform of hyper-anabolic and anti-proteolytic formulations designed to deliver optimum levels of nutrition to high performance athletes at the critical stages of exercise. Marketing efforts will focus on the consumer group identified as professional athletes, performance athletes, heavy users and regular users of sports nutrition and physique-modifying supplements. This retail market segment represented approximately $15.7 billion in 2004, as reported by Nutrition Business Journal.
Adam Michelin, CEO and Chairman of Redux Holdings, stated, "I am pleased to announce today's partnership with Koloseum Nutritional Sciences. I am confident that this partnership will create an abundance of synergistic opportunities across the portfolio of Redux Holdings, both at the retail level and with our supply chain partners."
Rick Robinette will serve as CEO of Koloseum Nutritional Sciences. Mr. Robinette has over 20 years' experience in executive leadership, operations, sales and marketing in the nutritional supplements industry. "I look forward to the tremendous opportunity to partner with Redux Holdings. The combined talent and relationships will create an optimum environment for building a world class sports nutrition supplement company," said Mr. Robinette.
Highlighted Links
First Capital Investors, Inc.
Milos Sarcev will serve as President of Koloseum Nutritional Sciences. Mr. Sarcev, 1989 Mr. Universe, is a world recognized IFBB professional bodybuilding legend (www.milossarcev.com), and personal trainer to professional athletes worldwide. "I am excited about the involvement of Redux with KNS and look forward to the opportunity to work with Adam Michelin to maximize the Koloseum brands," said Mr. Sarcev.
Koloseum Nutritional Sciences has developed a full line of sports nutrition supplements designed to meet the specialized nutritional needs of the high performance athlete. Their brand Imperium™ is a unique proprietary blend designed to create a "hyper-anabolic" state in pre, during and post workout activities. Their brand Protomax™ Protein Essentials is an ultra-high quality protein supplement that provides all essential nutrients, including omegas. KNS is also developing a lineup of solid dosage supplements for essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals, hormone amplification and weight management.
About Koloseum Nutritional Science, Inc.
Founded in 2006, Koloseum Nutritional Science's products will be sold in the health food channel, sports clubs, internet, and traditional retail stores (www.koloseum.com).
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put the pins away......
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TA, you are so MASSIVE, to RIPPED, to DEFINED, that I have no choice but to agree with you...LMAO!!!!
LMFAO!!
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Show me a current natural WAY AHEAD of Clarence Ross,John Grimek or Steeve Reeves....
It just goes to show that the supplement industry is a big joke.
what about skip la' cour ? ???
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IT'S OUT!!
MILOS' supplement KNS (Koloseum Nutrition Sciences Inc.) will be availlable soon! Below is the press release. All you trash talkers: before you stick your feet in your mouths, you may want to try this first:
Redux Holdings Completes Acquisition of Equity Interest in Koloseum Nutritional Sciences, Inc.
LOS ANGELES, CA -- (MARKET WIRE) -- January 18, 2007 -- Redux Holdings, Inc. (PINKSHEETS: RDXH) today announced that it has successfully completed the acquisition of a thirty percent equity interest in Koloseum Nutritional Sciences, Inc. in exchange for common stock in Redux Holdings.
Koloseum Nutritional Sciences, Inc. (KNS) is a new sports nutrition company that will market, sell and distribute innovative, science-driven performance nutrition supplements within the health and fitness channels. KNS has created a unique platform of hyper-anabolic and anti-proteolytic formulations designed to deliver optimum levels of nutrition to high performance athletes at the critical stages of exercise. Marketing efforts will focus on the consumer group identified as professional athletes, performance athletes, heavy users and regular users of sports nutrition and physique-modifying supplements. This retail market segment represented approximately $15.7 billion in 2004, as reported by Nutrition Business Journal.
Adam Michelin, CEO and Chairman of Redux Holdings, stated, "I am pleased to announce today's partnership with Koloseum Nutritional Sciences. I am confident that this partnership will create an abundance of synergistic opportunities across the portfolio of Redux Holdings, both at the retail level and with our supply chain partners."
Rick Robinette will serve as CEO of Koloseum Nutritional Sciences. Mr. Robinette has over 20 years' experience in executive leadership, operations, sales and marketing in the nutritional supplements industry. "I look forward to the tremendous opportunity to partner with Redux Holdings. The combined talent and relationships will create an optimum environment for building a world class sports nutrition supplement company," said Mr. Robinette.
Highlighted Links
First Capital Investors, Inc.
Milos Sarcev will serve as President of Koloseum Nutritional Sciences. Mr. Sarcev, 1989 Mr. Universe, is a world recognized IFBB professional bodybuilding legend (www.milossarcev.com), and personal trainer to professional athletes worldwide. "I am excited about the involvement of Redux with KNS and look forward to the opportunity to work with Adam Michelin to maximize the Koloseum brands," said Mr. Sarcev.
Koloseum Nutritional Sciences has developed a full line of sports nutrition supplements designed to meet the specialized nutritional needs of the high performance athlete. Their brand Imperium™ is a unique proprietary blend designed to create a "hyper-anabolic" state in pre, during and post workout activities. Their brand Protomax™ Protein Essentials is an ultra-high quality protein supplement that provides all essential nutrients, including omegas. KNS is also developing a lineup of solid dosage supplements for essential nutrients, vitamins and minerals, hormone amplification and weight management.
About Koloseum Nutritional Science, Inc.
Founded in 2006, Koloseum Nutritional Science's products will be sold in the health food channel, sports clubs, internet, and traditional retail stores (www.koloseum.com).
I'm not reading all of that.
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Seems like Arginine and Lysine has been left out of the guess every one's making. ;)
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I'm not reading all of that.
Don't worry, you sure as hell didn't miss anything.
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I don't think the supps will be anything special or revolutionary. A drink mix like this can't cost too much either or no one will buy it, regardless of how good it is. That's why you can't include all the very best and most expensive ingredients in product like this. I guess we'll see when the ingredient panels are released.
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DOn't know what Milos drinks but TA has an interesting way of getting his "special drink"
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milose jel govoris ti srpski?
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milose jel govoris ti srpski?
tipski, tspki, titi, titicaca, I am the great cornholio! I need tipi for my bunghole!
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and dont forget chris faildo. he also looks great for a modern natural bodybuilder.... i thought test was first introduced in the 30s by searle and ciba. i believe that was the first steroid not dianabol.
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Soon enough I will have 3 products available and I will spend a lot of time promoting it.
After 20+ years of training experience I am 100% convinced that the greatest opportunity for muscle growth occurs DURING and immediately after the training.
While many of you take postworkout shakes few take specific PRE and DURING the workout drinks - THAT COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
My partners and I /KOLOSEUM NUTRITIONAL SCIENCES/ will be introducing our "HYPER-ANABOLIC" PRE-DURING-POST WORKOUT DRINKS that (we hope) will revolutionize bodybuilding industry..
All the difference? ::)
I'd like to see the science on that one.
I'm sure there could be slight improvements. But Sarcev should consider the strength feats performed in ancient Greece eg. Several athletes back then outlifted athletes of today. With no suppliments.
It's sad to see these kinds of exaggerations from Sarcev.
Again, "all the difference"?
But I'm sure the product in itself will be good.
But revolutionary? Hardly.
-Hedge
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I don't think the supps will be anything special or revolutionary. A drink mix like this can't cost too much either or no one will buy it, regardless of how good it is. That's why you can't include all the very best and most expensive ingredients in product like this. I guess we'll see when the ingredient panels are released.
Well, I was wrong and right LOL. The price is outrageous. But he still couldn't afford to include Vitargo for example (which he has been hyping, but now suddenly makes no difference).
I was right in that there isn't anything new here - aminos and carbs - been around for years, in the same form.