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this is the main proof to show you just HOW MUCH BIG OF A PART drugs are on the average bodybuilder and fitness entusiastic's life in usa.
jason cutler would be stuck doing ymca shows if not for drugs.
dexjax would be stuck doing the jax district light weight if not for drugs
heath would be just another black guy with good cuts at 160lb if not for drugs
mike mata would be just,,well would be doing what he does now ;),,if not for drugs
and ron coleman,,well ron coleman does have out of this world physiqe natural or not natural but even ron coleman would be stuck doing mr texas show,,,or good ole south eastern or something,,, and would NOT win it!! if not for drugs.
there is no resembele between the murderer and a bodybuilder! and he doesnt do a thing all day,,,only sleep,,eat and work out some he should be big... he looks like the typical neigbor of yours that can play for fun in a softball team in the best case scenario
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
bill pearl was playing with tablets and was born at the right time when everyone were too busy to think about hormones.
arnold was born at the right place with the right genetic response to hormones with everything cheap and bunch of drug users around him in the gyms at times when no one cared about aas,,same for sergio by the way!
dorian took advantage of the law and used hormones in catastrophic doses and duration resulting in size and conditioning second only to ron.
ron didnt care because he was the fuckin LE
*can you even tell that the ugly wife ever EVER done any type of sport activity?? she got 20+% bf% and looks petite and fregile.
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whats your point
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titus isnt doing himself any favors sporting the shaved head and goatee in court like that
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there is no major point. it is to shake your head from time to time and get you off the olympus you climb on. it is to make the typical 19 year old kid feel better about himself. it is to demonstrate why this sport will never go olympics. and it to reveal and demonstrate from time to time the amount of lies that bring money to lots and lots of people.
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only one that wants bodybuilding to be part of the olympics is ben weider
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Another waste of thread
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oh,,,this aint no wasting my friend (i used aint like american,, :D)
this thread will be read by more than few kids and it will bring them back to reality thus resulting in them either using hormones and get there bodybuilding npc goals achieved,, or simply take it easy on everything and keep it as hobby activity like a normal person.
this will minimize gym rats expectations :D
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oh,,,this aint no wasting my friend (i used aint like american,, :D)
this thread will be read by more than few kids and it will bring them back to reality thus resulting in them either using hormones and get there bodybuilding npc goals achieved,, or simply take it easy on everything and keep it as hobby activity like a normal person.
this will minimize gym rats expectations :D
It will make those "gym rats" want to use even more. :-\
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you indeed may be right,,but the poiint is to either chose the way and take it to competetive level with the aim to compete and that means to USE hormones,,or just go to the gym for fun 2-3 times a week as social activity. it is to prevent so many gym rats i see around from becoming same gym rats 10 years later!
take for example that kid stave cukolo or whatever his name is,,he is 20 if im not mistaken or around there,,,take a good look at him,,,he decided few years ago to take bodybuilding seriously. he climed on the hormone wagon and took it to the next phase. in 3-5 years he will get his pro card and in 10 years he will be jason cutler and place consistently top 15 O,,you can mark and date my words on that one.
take it seriously (drug wise) and you will see the fruits,,,dont take it seriously and you will grow old and quit. this is the world of bodybuilding as of 2000.
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it takes a lot of risk and sacrifice to become a proffesional bb let alone a succesful one. Often times they continue to compete for us the fans (Lee Priest comes to mind)
GH15 - if you are a pro, thanks. Thanks for doing what you do - it inspires a lot of us to better ourselves and you guys make the world a more interesting place
I hope not everyone will be discouraged from pursuing their dreams of winning the Olympia. The sport will die without the new guard coming up
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I'm curious why many "insiders", such as On Swole here on GB, can state with certainty that Ronnie won his pro card before touching steroids? I think they even claim he competed a few years clean??
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Hmmm I don't know about Steve Reeves... I think he has too much integrity to lie.
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this is the main proof to show you just HOW MUCH BIG OF A PART drugs are on the average bodybuilder and fitness entusiastic's life in usa.
jason cutler would be stuck doing ymca shows if not for drugs.
dexjax would be stuck doing the jax district light weight if not for drugs
heath would be just another black guy with good cuts at 160lb if not for drugs
mike mata would be just,,well would be doing what he does now ;),,if not for drugs
and ron coleman,,well ron coleman does have out of this world physiqe natural or not natural but even ron coleman would be stuck doing mr texas show,,,or good ole south eastern or something,,, and would NOT win it!! if not for drugs.
there is no resembele between the murderer and a bodybuilder! and he doesnt do a thing all day,,,only sleep,,eat and work out some he should be big... he looks like the typical neigbor of yours that can play for fun in a softball team in the best case scenario
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
bill pearl was playing with tablets and was born at the right time when everyone were too busy to think about hormones.
arnold was born at the right place with the right genetic response to hormones with everything cheap and bunch of drug users around him in the gyms at times when no one cared about aas,,same for sergio by the way!
dorian took advantage of the law and used hormones in catastrophic doses and duration resulting in size and conditioning second only to ron.
ron didnt care because he was the fuckin LE
*can you even tell that the ugly wife ever EVER done any type of sport activity?? she got 20+% bf% and looks petite and fregile.
Steve Reeves won every single contest and retired way before Hormones were even introduced in the United States.
You are dead wrong on Steve Reeves GH15.
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I wish GH15 would come out but I don't think he would benefit...What you see in the shows, magazines, etc ...is all advertisement for more people to buy their products. They have been doing this for more than 50 years or so...(give or take) They set the bar sooo high that they want the consumer to pursuit that image...Every now and then there is a person who does take hold of what they put out and perceives that they have reached the goal...but the thing is that in the prize of being Mr. Olympia is also the curse of showing an unattainable physique that is absolutely too high and costly a price to pay... If you will it is the grand pyramid scheme...... Those in the pyramid are so blind to everything around them that they fail to step back and say..what the fuck am I doing...how many kids out there are buying this shit..taking risk....doing such acts etc... They begin to disregard many facets of society simply by living a life that in this country is illegal. Its a vicious circle..i cant really fully capture the grad Scheme of the bullshit but i don't know anything in society which is more corrupt, but not on a financial level but ideological level. Its like how Vince McMahon controls wrestling..but more than that. Its like Cuba, but worst...its sad and unless YOU know whatever this thing called an industry is, your probably going to be victimized on some level and all of you have. I'm not saying that eating protein from a store bought product is making me a victim but know what it is your contributing to, a factory if you will that through DRUGS and only through them has created a bait for those to pursue.
The only thing left there is to do is watch, laugh and expose the truth!
GH15 is lucky at at least he knows he is going to the slaughter house
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GH 15 , For an athlete who looks like you do, you seem awfully bitter.Your right alot of athletes do drugs, in every sport.But you can get a nice physique naturally if you train hard, and eat 7-8 meals a day.No you want be Mr O or be a freak but you will look pleasing.Not everyone wants to be a freak.At one time back in the late 70's and early 80' s some pro's physiques were almost ubtainable, with alot of hard work and some drugs, now its chemical warfare.I have not used a hormone in over a year, and I am 255lbs, lean, at just under 6 ft, with 20 inch arms, and I am healthy.Yes I have been bigger, but I feel alot better I cant actually walk up steps and not breath heavy.When I was on gear at 280-290 lbs, I was pretty lean but carry all that weight felt like I was carrying another body along with my own.I want to get down to 230-240 and just be healthy, not everyone wants to be a freak, besides, I want to live until I am 70
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GH 15 , For an athlete who looks like you do, you seem awfully bitter.Your right alot of athletes do drugs, in every sport.But you can get a nice physique naturally if you train hard, and eat 7-8 meals a day.No you want be Mr O or be a freak but you will look pleasing.Not everyone wants to be a freak.At one time back in the late 70's and early 80' s some pro's physiques were almost ubtainable, with alot of hard work and some drugs, now its chemical warfare.I have not used a hormone in over a year, and I am 255lbs, lean, at just under 6 ft, with 20 inch arms, and I am healthy.Yes I have been bigger, but I feel alot better I cant actually walk up steps and not breath heavy.When I was on gear at 280-290 lbs, I was pretty lean but carry all that weight felt like I was carrying another body along with my own.I want to get down to 230-240 and just be healthy, not everyone wants to be a freak, besides, I want to live until I am 70
Thats what the people i talk to say. The guys who are older than me and have been super heavy like 280 and up, and on gear. They feel much better just doing it naturally, its taxing on the mind after awhile im sure.
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I carried 280-290 lbs off seaon for 4 1/2 years, it sucked.I could hold 272lbs, without any ggear in me , but even then I felt like shit.So I am slowly working my way back down to 230-240.The lighter I get the better I feel.When I was 280 if I ran 20 yards, my ankles and kness would ache.Now I can run a 100 yards, and not even feel a thing.When you 280 + there is only few things you can do, eat sleep. and train, lol.You cant buy clothes, your tired as hell all the time, and you sweat like a bastard, even when its not hot out.I was only like 9% body fat at 285lbs, yet I was always tired, lazy, and always warm
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i know my english is not harverd but it is also not farm raised good alabama or missississpi :D
i said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
*you can live up to 90-100 even if you inject hormones it wont take away off your life if you keep everything with balance. probodybuilding is not balanced thus shorter life spans that ends at 60-80 at an average. now,,i myself,,have never met the 6 foot dude that kept lean 7% bf and maintained 250lb naturally,,i did see 6 foot 230-240 at 12-13% clean!,,i have yet to meet 6foot 250 at 7% clean for over a year,, but then again im not here to fight with you ny,,you seem like a nice guy.
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GH 15 I know you are on Cell Tech, and your just starting to take anator 70 , then stack it it Creakic, and GayKic, so you can dain 50 lbs in 5 weeks like Jermy Freman did.lol.
GH 15 the only reason I hold weight so well is I have large bones, 8 inch wrists plus I have been training 20 years.All my family memeber were big stocky Italian men.My father smoked for 48 years, never touched a weight and had 18 ' arms, beleive it or not
He was a big strong friggin bear, we used to cal him beat man, because he was big and hairy like that character on He man , lol
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i know my english is not harverd but it is also not farm raised good alabama or missississpi :D
i said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
*you can live up to 90-100 even if you inject hormones it wont take away off your life if you keep everything with balance. probodybuilding is not balanced thus shorter life spans that ends at 60-80 at an average. now,,i myself,,have never met the 6 foot dude that kept lean 7% bf and maintained 250lb naturally,,i did see 6 foot 230-240 at 12-13% clean!,,i have yet to meet 6foot 250 at 7% clean for over a year,, but then again im not here to fight with you ny,,you seem like a nice guy.
At least someone here can speak the truth when it comes to the reality of hormone use.
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All the pro bodybuilders use Cell Tech, I saw Jay Cutler use it the other day .One of his hummers was leaking oil and he poured some Cell Tech on the puddle of oil.With in 10 minutes it soaked up all the oil and removed the oil stain completely, lol
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GH 15 I know you are on Cell Tech, and your just starting to take anator 70 , then stack it it Creakic, and GayKic, so you can dain 50 lbs in 5 weeks like Jermy Freman did.lol.
Oh brother, I saw this ad the other day and almost fell off the toilet laughing. Most supplement companies are full of shit, then again, most advertising is misleading. Honest America!
45lbs of lean mass or something in 8 weeks. Hell, even on gear that is unattainable. What will ads say next?
When I got the new container of Nitrotech, it says 8.4lbs of lean mass is attainable in 2 weeks. I was hysterical for about a minute. Yeah, 6lbs of fat, 2lbs of muscle. Muscletech rocks!
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Cell Tech abosorbs oil stains, 4000 % better then cat litter or sand!!!!!
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this is the main proof to show you just HOW MUCH BIG OF A PART drugs are on the average bodybuilder and fitness entusiastic's life in usa.
jason cutler would be stuck doing ymca shows if not for drugs.
dexjax would be stuck doing the jax district light weight if not for drugs
heath would be just another black guy with good cuts at 160lb if not for drugs
mike mata would be just,,well would be doing what he does now ;),,if not for drugs
and ron coleman,,well ron coleman does have out of this world physiqe natural or not natural but even ron coleman would be stuck doing mr texas show,,,or good ole south eastern or something,,, and would NOT win it!! if not for drugs.
And where would you be in this group?
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attention everyone, attention everyone! this is f*cking stupid. thank you.
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GH15 is just like every other pro, he is Using Anator 70 to alter his gentic code, then he will use Gakic the last 8 weeks of his contest prep and gain 10.7% increase in strength.Dr Marvin Heur of the University of Nottingham Medical School has given all the top pro bodybuilders new Hydroxycut Hardcore Liquid caps so they can get down to negative 2 % bobdydat in 8 weeks
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i know my english is not harverd but it is also not farm raised good alabama or missississpi :D
i said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
*you can live up to 90-100 even if you inject hormones it wont take away off your life if you keep everything with balance. probodybuilding is not balanced thus shorter life spans that ends at 60-80 at an average. now,,i myself,,have never met the 6 foot dude that kept lean 7% bf and maintained 250lb naturally,,i did see 6 foot 230-240 at 12-13% clean!,,i have yet to meet 6foot 250 at 7% clean for over a year,, but then again im not here to fight with you ny,,you seem like a nice guy.
I like you, but you don`t know what in the hell you are talking about when it comes to Steve Reeves.
You are talking out of your ass and making shit up about the man and I don`t appreciate it.
He never once touched a thing. He looked his absolute best in the late 40s and early 50`s way before hormones or anything hit the American shores. While he did look good throughout the years, his best was when he was a bodybuilder and he was and always had been lifetime natural his whole life.
You may know about the current guys, but you know dick about the bodybuilders of the past.
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To bad Muscle Tech wasnt around when Steve Reeves was bodybuilding in his prime.He would have been 300 lbs ripped thanks to Hydroxycut
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I like you, but you don`t know what in the hell you are talking about when it comes to Steve Reeves.
You are talking out of your ass and making shit up about the man and I don`t appreciate it.
He never once touched a thing. He looked his absolute best in the late 40s and early 50`s way before hormones or anything hit the American shores. While he did look good throughout the years, his best was when he was a bodybuilder and he was and always had been lifetime natural his whole life.
You may know about the current guys, but you know dick about the bodybuilders of the past.
do me a favor and read again what i said. he WAS the closest thing to natural you will ever find when it comes to this level of competition. testosterone products were available since the 30s,,you could get them through doctor and by other means exactly like you could get mexican items all through the 90s up to this date,,and exactly like you can get the powders these days directly from asia.
then there was ZERO supervision and everything was experiemnted. no one knew or care what it was beside the military and few writers and lifters,,,now days every 17 year old is interested. that is the diff!
never the less steve reeves was indeed THE CLOSEST THING YOU WILL FIND TO NATURAL. he only experiemnted and nothing else and this is MY OPINION you can disagree.
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Adonis sure acts like a girl about this.
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I like you, but you don`t know what in the hell you are talking about when it comes to Steve Reeves.
You are talking out of your ass and making shit up about the man and I don`t appreciate it.
He never once touched a thing. He looked his absolute best in the late 40s and early 50`s way before hormones or anything hit the American shores. While he did look good throughout the years, his best was when he was a bodybuilder and he was and always had been lifetime natural his whole life.
You may know about the current guys, but you know dick about the bodybuilders of the past.
IIRC even Robert Kennedy of Musclemag has said Reeves experimented with testosterone. I recall an interview with some oldtimer who comepeted with Reeves in MD, can't remember his name, who also accused Reeves of experimenting with test. Who the hell knows.
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titus isnt doing himself any favors sporting the shaved head and goatee in court like that
You are right, but Titus looks a hell of a lot heathier than when he was originally arressted. Now that he is off of the crystal meth and possibly given up the Newports, he actually looks like he has put on weight.
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Steve Reeves won every single contest and retired way before Hormones were even introduced in the United States.
You are dead wrong on Steve Reeves GH15.
Why do fucking people insist on dragging Steve Reeves name through the mud? steroids didn't become prevelant in bodybuilding till around 1964.
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Why do fucking people insist on dragging Steve Reeves name through the mud? steroids didn't become prevelant in bodybuilding till around 1964.
Its the same reason they accuse me and Daddywaddy of steroid use....Jealousy.
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Its the same reason they accuse me and Daddywaddy of steroid use....Jealousy.
TA have you lifted with DaddyWAddy ? how do you know him and when did you meet him
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titus isnt doing himself any favors sporting the shaved head and goatee in court like that
yeah, if I were him, I would rip that goatee off my face. It make him look guilty already. by the way, he look like he's around 225lbs in that pic
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titus isnt doing himself any favors sporting the shaved head and goatee in court like that
maybe his new prison husband likes it.
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Its the same reason they accuse me and Daddywaddy of steroid use....Jealousy.
Stupidity comes into play also.
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That's absurd. That's like saying the reason you bash all the pros is because of jealousy. The reasons are different for each individual.
I think you have probably/possibly used hormones before because the level you're at now coupled with your age and in some pictures it looked like you were retaining water in your face typical of juicers.
It's in NO WAY unreasonable for people to think you've used in the past.
It is unreasonable. I`ll take any test, any time, anywhere if someone wanted to provide one. Lifetime Natural here.
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That's absurd. That's like saying the reason you bash all the pros is because of jealousy. The reasons are different for each individual.
I think you have probably/possibly used hormones before because the level you're at now coupled with your age and in some pictures it looked like you were retaining water in your face typical of juicers.
It's in NO WAY unreasonable for people to think you've used in the past.
TA wouldn't be as vocal as he is against juicers if he used, imo.
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Its the same reason they accuse me and Daddywaddy of steroid use....Jealousy.
you dont look like you use steroids, not even close. I wouldnt worry about, everyone here should believe your natural.
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this is the main proof to show you just HOW MUCH BIG OF A PART drugs are on the average bodybuilder and fitness entusiastic's life in usa.
jason cutler would be stuck doing ymca shows if not for drugs.
dexjax would be stuck doing the jax district light weight if not for drugs
heath would be just another black guy with good cuts at 160lb if not for drugs
mike mata would be just,,well would be doing what he does now ;),,if not for drugs
and ron coleman,,well ron coleman does have out of this world physiqe natural or not natural but even ron coleman would be stuck doing mr texas show,,,or good ole south eastern or something,,, and would NOT win it!! if not for drugs.
these reality checks are great. gh15 should have a column in flex magazine.
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you dont look like you use steroids, not even close. I wouldnt worry about, everyone here should believe your natural.
Whats worse is that you don`t look like you use steroids as many naturals,myself included, are way ahead of you.
You are a joke...So is your gay life partner Mo Elbasouni.
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Whats worse is that you don`t look like you use steroids as many naturals,myself included, are way ahead of you.
You are a joke...So is your gay life partner Mo Elbasouni.
whos mo? And wtf? I wasnt busting on you? You look natural
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Adam, do you know about the history of AAS? It was definitely available to Steve Reeves in the fourties.
Wrong ! anabolic steroids wern't available until the late 1950s !! well after Reeves retired .
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I am on the fence with the Reeves debate due to lack of knowledge concerning the subject but is there a difference between "commercially available" and perhaps have the right connections to score you "experimental" test. Ex. IGF-1 was not "commercially" available for human use a while ago but you could get some "experimental" stuff I believe. Any thoughts?
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I like you, but you don`t know what in the hell you are talking about when it comes to Steve Reeves.
You are talking out of your ass and making shit up about the man and I don`t appreciate it.
He never once touched a thing. He looked his absolute best in the late 40s and early 50`s way before hormones or anything hit the American shores. While he did look good throughout the years, his best was when he was a bodybuilder and he was and always had been lifetime natural his whole life.
You may know about the current guys, but you know dick about the bodybuilders of the past.
This man speaks the truth ! great post.
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This man speaks the truth ! great post.
ND, you seem knowledgable about the early years of bodybuilding, so maybe you can clarify this statement:
"Marnul [Kurt, Arnold's boyhood trainer ] says he learned about steroids from famed bodybuilder Steve Reeves."
http://www.thearnoldfans.com/bodybuilding/history.htm
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How in the hell does anyone know if Reeves used or not? Adonis, you weren't even alive when he was competing. Of course Nubret never used either, oh wait, maybe he did. These are pointless arguments.
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oh,,,this aint no wasting my friend (i used aint like american,, :D)
this thread will be read by more than few kids and it will bring them back to reality thus resulting in them either using hormones and get there bodybuilding npc goals achieved,, or simply take it easy on everything and keep it as hobby activity like a normal person.
this will minimize gym rats expectations :D
no it won;t you moron you just made every kid wanna take juice cause now they think thats the only way to suceed
take a basic psych course and try to understand why humans do what they do.........you just said there is not way to succeed without drugs
well your dumb enought to be a pro
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I like you, but you don`t know what in the hell you are talking about when it comes to Steve Reeves.
You are talking out of your ass and making shit up about the man and I don`t appreciate it.
He never once touched a thing. He looked his absolute best in the late 40s and early 50`s way before hormones or anything hit the American shores. While he did look good throughout the years, his best was when he was a bodybuilder and he was and always had been lifetime natural his whole life.
You may know about the current guys, but you know dick about the bodybuilders of the past.
d bol was around circa 1936 in the USA check your facts not sure if or not reeves juiced i would say later in life he did but its a guess
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d bol was around circa 1936 in the USA check your facts
Haha are you serious? It was not around 1936! Check your facts on when Ziegler developed it.
1956 is the year:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianabol
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That's like saying don't teach kids about sex and they won't do it as teenagers. Or don't teach them about drugs and they won't do them. Or don't let people watch violent movies and they won't be violent.
I totally agree, lying to people, saying you don't need hormones to reach a certain level, is not the best way to stem use. I was and am a big fan of not insulting people intelligence with straight up lies.
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d bol was around circa 1936 in the USA check your facts not sure if or not reeves juiced i would say later in life he did but its a guess
If rocks had intelligence, you'de be the dumbest one on the planet. ;D
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ND, you seem knowledgable about the early years of bodybuilding, so maybe you can clarify this statement:
"Marnul [Kurt, Arnold's boyhood trainer ] says he learned about steroids from famed bodybuilder Steve Reeves."
http://www.thearnoldfans.com/bodybuilding/history.htm
That was from Wendy Leighs unauthorized biography of Arnold and here is Steve Reeves response.
The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27 it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
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whos mo? And wtf? I wasnt busting on you? You look natural
Agreed. Adonis looks like he's been lifting for a year or two and is all natural. A decent physique for a newbie. Keep up the great work Adonis!
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That was from Wendy Leighs unauthorized biography of Arnold and here is Steve Reeves response.
The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27 it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
Fair enough, thanks.
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Fair enough, thanks.
No problem .
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That was from Wendy Leighs unauthorized biography of Arnold and here is Steve Reeves response.
The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27 it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
But you have to remember that for years Arnold denied doing steroids. You just can't trust bodybuilders when it comes to the gear :-\
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Reeves was definately natural. At least early on. His lifts were good but not extremely heavy. For instance he used 120lb dumbells for incline presses, but he normally used the 100s. He would do 10-15 reps and did slow negatives. He had good size but wasn't huge, definately attainable with hard work and good nutrition.
(http://www.meekermuseum.com/stever1.jpg)
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But you have to remember that for years Arnold denied doing steroids. You just can't trust bodybuilders when it comes to the gear :-\
I don't recall Arnold denying steroid use. these are Arnold's quotes reguarding his use.
"I take steroids because they give me an extra 5 percent. Women take the pill. They are somewhat similar. I do it under a doctor's supervision."
Source: 1974 televised interview with Barbara Walters
I never took an overdosage. I took them (steroids) under a doctor's supervision once a year, six or eight weeks before competition. I was always careful and checked, and I never had any side effects."
Source: Playboy, January 1988
"I have no health problems, no kidney damage or anything like that from using them."
Source: Los Angeles Times, June 16, 1996
Even while he was a Mr Olympia he didn't deny his use. and back then steroids were legal without a prescription so he had nothing to hide.
And anabolic steroids were not developed until 1956 in the United State thats a full 6 years after Steve Reeves retirement ! so its impossible that Reeves took them , couple that with him saying he didn't even hear of them until the 60s .
The first weightlifter/bodybuilder that I know of that used anabolic steroids was Bill March in 1959 under the guidence of the creator of them .Dr John Ziegler .
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1. synthetic test was first produced in a lab in 1930
2.it was used during the 30s for medical purposes and in the major armys research facilities (ussr, germany, usa)
3. it was introduced to sports in 1940
4. in usa,, doses of it began to be used in 1950 by who ever had connections (athletes, rich people, medical community etc)
5. by the end of 1950s,,testosterone was produced in usa pharmas on a regular basis
6. during the 60s testosterone and other testosterone related products were a part or every serious bodybuilder's life
7. in the 70s average to mega doses of aas were in use by majority of bodybuilders
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
as i said before he was REAL natural in comparisson to any "natural" athlete now days.
if you want to see bodybuilders/powerlifters who were built ONLY on food and traininng,, i suggest to look twards the very early 1900s. during 1910-1920 every one was 100% natural and only used food.
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GH 15 is about as Natural as some of the so -called natural stars.
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Reeves was definately natural. At least early on. His lifts were good but not extremely heavy. For instance he used 120lb dumbells for incline presses, but he normally used the 100s. He would do 10-15 reps and did slow negatives. He had good size but wasn't huge, definately attainable with hard work and good nutrition.
(http://www.meekermuseum.com/stever1.jpg)
How much do you think that is?
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1. synthetic test was first produced in a lab in 1930
2.it was used during the 30s for medical purposes and in the major armys research facilities (ussr, germany, usa)
3. it was introduced to sports in 1940
4. in usa,, doses of it began to be used in 1950 by who ever had connections (athletes, rich people, medical community etc)
5. by the end of 1950s,,testosterone was produced in usa pharmas on a regular basis
6. during the 60s testosterone and other testosterone related products were a part or every serious bodybuilder's life
7. in the 70s average to mega doses of aas were in use by majority of bodybuilders
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
as i said before he was REAL natural in comparisson to any "natural" athlete now days.
if you want to see bodybuilders/powerlifters who were built ONLY on food and traininng,, i suggest to look twards the very early 1900s. during 1910-1920 every one was 100% natural and only used food.
Total bullshit...Can you even substantiate your information?
You are talking out of your ass again. Big Time.
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Total bullshit...Can you even substantiate your information?
You are talking out of your ass again. Big Time.
hahahaha, GH15 probably believes the Roman centurions were on test.
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1. synthetic test was first produced in a lab in 1930
2.it was used during the 30s for medical purposes and in the major armys research facilities (ussr, germany, usa)
3. it was introduced to sports in 1940
4. in usa,, doses of it began to be used in 1950 by who ever had connections (athletes, rich people, medical community etc)
5. by the end of 1950s,,testosterone was produced in usa pharmas on a regular basis
6. during the 60s testosterone and other testosterone related products were a part or every serious bodybuilder's life
7. in the 70s average to mega doses of aas were in use by majority of bodybuilders
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
as i said before he was REAL natural in comparisson to any "natural" athlete now days.
if you want to see bodybuilders/powerlifters who were built ONLY on food and traininng,, i suggest to look twards the very early 1900s. during 1910-1920 every one was 100% natural and only used food.
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
You're full of shit ! period no two ways about it. you're making a claim he experimented with testosterone and you have NOT one single shred of evidence . you act like you have some ' inside ' information but you don't .
please site every single one of your sources for this information .
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you are lucky i dont charge $ for my advice on this board ;) there are places i charge a lot of $ for every sentence that comes out of my mouth
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you are lucky i dont charge $ for my advice on this board ;) there are places i charge a lot of $ for every sentence that comes out of my mouth
You'd be hardpressed to find anyone willing to pay for your bullshit ! no give me your sources for all the information you're claiming.
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steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
You're full of shit ! period no two ways about it. you're making a claim he experimented with testosterone and you have NOT one single shred of evidence . you act like you have some ' inside ' information but you don't .
please site every single one of your sources for this information .
he doesn't have any evidence, him and GH are just angry that they wouldn't look half as big as Reeves, Grimek, Ross, Dellinger and those guys if they had to train natural.
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give me the sources of information who prove steve reeves was natural,,,you claim he was 100% natural at all times right? prove it
im not playing with you here,,i said he was natural in today's standards and thats that
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give me the sources of information who prove steve reeves was natural,,,you claim he was 100% natural at all times right? prove it
im not playing with you here,,i said he was natural in today's standards and thats that
Nice backpeddle no no sport it was you who claimed he wasn't , it was you who claimed he experimented with test. you prove to me your claims. you're being called out. time to put up or shut up. ;)
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if im not mistaken reeves died at age 73? unnatural death right? thats not the healthiest thing ive seen in the around the block my friend ;)
i said he was natural in comparisson to today's bodybuilding standards and thats that. this is MY OPINION. experiemting doesnt make you a constant user.
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you are lucky i dont charge $ for my advice on this board ;) there are places i charge a lot of $ for every sentence that comes out of my mouth
I like some of your posts bro, but I wouldn't go that far. There are a few knowledgable guys on this board and remember this is not the steroid section. There are many more boards out there that have some pretty smart guys on them. Your a big fish in a small pond on here. No offense.
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Heh, yeah. You guys can go back to listening to True Adonis and Alexxx's advice on roid use...I think I'll stick with advice from GH15 -- so far his track record has been impeccable.
Well then I guess you will always stay VinceG's retarded little child.
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if im not mistaken reeves died at age 73? unnatural death right? thats not the healthiest thing ive seen in the around the block my friend ;)
i said he was natural in comparisson to today's bodybuilding standards and thats that. this is MY OPINION. experiemting doesnt make you a constant user.
No along with your test claims you're mistaken . and is lymphoma unnatural? the average death age of an American male is 73.2 years so thats about average.
No you claimed he experimented with test , you have to back up your claim.
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Heh, yeah. You guys can go back to listening to True Adonis and Alexxx's advice on roid use...I think I'll stick with advice from GH15 -- so far his track record has been impeccable.
He does give good advice. My point is that there are a lot of other boards out there where the things he is sayings is pretty common.
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True, I just like hearing it from someone I trust more than inet goofballs (TA/Alexxx/etc...)...I know GH15 is anon and all, but his/her track record is a whole lot better than anyone else I've read. Maybe w/ the exception of Div, but he's been awol lately.
I totally agree. I do enjoy his posts. I am om two other boards that are geared (no pun intended ;D ) towards indepth anabolics and contest prep with some veterans of the sport (sorry) so that was my point. Hell, I love a good debate about this kind of stuff. Just never had the chance to do it on here since most of the guys here are never serious enough.
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Steve died at 74 of lymphoma. The strange thing is, Steve was the picture of health, while a friend of my dad's recently turned 75 and has been an alcoholic for about the past 60 years. He smoked like a chimney until age 65 and never watched his diet. He has been diabetic for some time. How?? ??? ???
A lot of what determines your "ending age" as it is is genetics. Now, although living a "healthy" lifestyle is generally beneficial, every now and then people with horrendous health practices live longer than people who watch their health very closely. This is not the norm however, and I think that is the most important thing to bear in mind. George Burns is another great example of freaky genetics for age. Most people that live like that don't make it that far though.
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not to forget! insulin was on the scene since 1920 and lilly our "love" started producing it in early 20s all around the good ole usa if im not mistaken ;)
steve reeves loved horses correct? he been arond them all his life correct? there was no knowledge or understanding coming out of everyday society during the 30s and 40s,,people didnt care about hormones,,they cared about WW2 and the goal of winning the war against nazi germany. those days were very good for experiementing with anything you could get your hands on.
i still claim that steve reeves was indeed natural,, because there was zero understanding of the products,,the products were used in primative ways,,the products were used in too little of a dose,,the products were not used long enough for major gains enhancment.
"you must remember that a bodybuilder LOVES his/her body. a bodybuilder will do whatever it takes to enhance it and the serious bodybuilder will also train hard enough for those hormones to work to their full potential." gh15 august 10, 2006 ;)
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not to forget! insulin was on the scene since 1920 and lilly our "love" started producing it in early 20s all around the good ole usa if im not mistaken ;)
steve reeves loved horses correct? he been arond them all his life correct? there was no knowledge or understanding coming out of everyday society during the 30s and 40s,,people didnt care about hormones,,they cared about WW2 and the goal of winning the war against nazi germany. those days were very good for experiementing with anything you could get your hands on.
i still claim that steve reeves was indeed natural,, because there was zero understanding of the products,,the products were used in primative ways,,the products were used in too little of a dose,,the products were not used long enough for major gains enhancment.
"you must remember that a bodybuilder LOVES his/her body. a bodybuilder will do whatever it takes to enhance it and the serious bodybuilder will also train hard enough for those hormones to work to their full potential." gh15 august 10, 2006 ;)
To be fair, not every bodybuilder that LOVES his/her body will do anything to improve it. Some of us are not willing to take those steps, so we get left behind.
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not to forget! insulin was on the scene since 1920 and lilly our "love" started producing it in early 20s all around the good ole usa if im not mistaken ;)
steve reeves loved horses correct? he been arond them all his life correct? there was no knowledge or understanding coming out of everyday society during the 30s and 40s,,people didnt care about hormones,,they cared about WW2 and the goal of winning the war against nazi germany. those days were very good for experiementing with anything you could get your hands on.
i still claim that steve reeves was indeed natural,, because there was zero understanding of the products,,the products were used in primative ways,,the products were used in too little of a dose,,the products were not used long enough for major gains enhancment.
"you must remember that a bodybuilder LOVES his/her body. a bodybuilder will do whatever it takes to enhance it and the serious bodybuilder will also train hard enough for those hormones to work to their full potential." gh15 august 10, 2006 ;)
You are delusional.
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not to forget! insulin was on the scene since 1920 and lilly our "love" started producing it in early 20s all around the good ole usa if im not mistaken ;)
steve reeves loved horses correct? he been arond them all his life correct? there was no knowledge or understanding coming out of everyday society during the 30s and 40s,,people didnt care about hormones,,they cared about WW2 and the goal of winning the war against nazi germany. those days were very good for experiementing with anything you could get your hands on.
i still claim that steve reeves was indeed natural,, because there was zero understanding of the products,,the products were used in primative ways,,the products were used in too little of a dose,,the products were not used long enough for major gains enhancment.
"you must remember that a bodybuilder LOVES his/her body. a bodybuilder will do whatever it takes to enhance it and the serious bodybuilder will also train hard enough for those hormones to work to their full potential." gh15 august 10, 2006 ;)
Are you claiming Steve Reeves experimented with insulin as well? again site your sources of proof. how do you knowpersonally he experimented with test? please site your sources , you're not addressing the question.
i still claim that steve reeves was indeed natural,, because there was zero understanding of the products,,the products were used in primative ways,,the products were used in too little of a dose,,the products were not used long enough for major gains enhancment.
Again more nonsene , one you're NOT claiming he was ' natural ' you're claiming he was injecting testosterone. again you're acting like you personally know how he supposedly took them ( primative ways ) what doses he supposedly took and the duration he was on them for. how do you have all this personal information? you don't you're full of shit.
"you must remember that a bodybuilder LOVES his/her body. a bodybuilder will do whatever it takes to enhance it and the serious bodybuilder will also train hard enough for those hormones to work to their full potential." gh15 august 10, 2006 ;)
Wow sage advice from a wanna-be guru ::) you think everyone has your mentality. there was a time in bodybuilding when drugs were not part of the equasion when it was as a healthy activity , this was Steve Reeves time.
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kid, you are blubbing. i said reeves was natural in comparisson to today's standards. i also never said he injected testosterone,,,what i said was that he experiemented with testosterone (most likley in tablet form that couldnt even produce high enough and long enough levels of test in blood because that is how it first came out).
i am sure that later in his movie career he experiemnted with injactable solution too. nothing major he belong to the era of little = more,, thus the natural i approved him to be.
i gave you facts from the 20s 30s 40s,,you can accept it how ever you like,,,or not accept it. you didnt talk to him or was alive then and neither did i so there are no actual camera to document this. you claim natural i claim natural too with some experimenting. thats that
i said already couple of times that this is MY OPINION and the chances of me mistaken are close to zero if not zero itself my friend;)
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If i was around in the forties and someone told me i could take some pills and my muscles would get bigger i would have wolfed them down. It is inconceivable that Reeves didn't do the same. His body was his passion, and there were tools to help him.
I really don't understand why some people are so obsesed with Reeves being natrual. Get a life.
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kid, you are blubbing. i said reeves was natural in comparisson to today's standards. i also never said he injected testosterone,,,what i said was that he experiemented with testosterone (most likley in tablet form that couldnt even produce high enough and long enough levels of test in blood because that is how it first came out).
i am sure that later in his movie career he experiemnted with injactable solution too. nothing major he belong to the era of little = more,, thus the natural i approved him to be.
i gave you facts from the 20s 30s 40s,,you can accept it how ever you like,,,or not accept it. you didnt talk to him or was alive then and neither did i so there are no actual camera to document this. you claim natural i claim natural too with some experimenting. thats that
i said already couple of times that this is MY OPINION and the chances of me mistaken are close to zero if not zero itself my friend;)
Kid? hardly ;) these are your statements
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
never the less steve reeves was indeed THE CLOSEST THING YOU WILL FIND TO NATURAL. he only experiemnted and nothing else and this is MY OPINION you can disagree.
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
I don't care if you keep insisting he could be considered natural thats NOT the point. the point is your are saying he experimented with steroids . what is your proof of this? what are your sources? you have none period. you have vauge refferences and tried to connect the dots and you've failed. you've speculated on the types and duration of his alleged use , this implys you have firsthand personal information not available to anyone else and you don't.
again provide me with the proof you have that Steve Reeves experimented with anabolics.
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Everyone has their own reasons for training. I love it! It's never a waste of time for me. Anyway, I'd rather this than being a bar fly or video game nerd. ;D
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ND: Where is your proof that Steve was natural?
You would know if you weren`t banned from IronAge.
There are a lot of people who have interracted and trained with Reeves on that site. Even people that he competed against.
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:)
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Don't be a prick. And tons of people lie about juicing and tell no one at all.
There wasn`t anything to lie about in the 40s and early 50s.
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ND: Where is your proof that Steve was natural?
Here is my proof ;)
Building THE CLASSIC PHYSIQUE The Natural Way by Steve Reeves
page 170.
The Subject of Steroids
Question: What are your thoughts on the steroid issue in bodybuilding?
Steve Reeves: I think the introduction of steroids was the worst thing to ever happen to bodybuilding. To me, the bodybuilders of today are clones. They all look like they're out of the same mold. Sure come of them have blonde hair,others dark hair, some have fair skin others dark skin and somre are shorter and some are taleer,but all of them look like they were stamped out of the same mold. And that's the sort of bloated-tissue look caused by steroids. In my day, from 100 yards away, you could tell if a person was Steve Reeves or John Grimek , Clancy Ross or Reg Park. people were individuals at that time. Now they workout with the same routine, with the same steroids , as a result , they've come to look too much like one another.
They waste thier lives training all the time. There's more to life than trianing. And when thy're off the drugs, they don't look that great. Contrast that with John Grimek - I saw John about six months ago - at age 85 - and he's still looking good ! in my day , bodybuilding was a health oriented activity - instead of the drug-orientedsport it has become. Steroids surfaced in bodybuilding , I think because people wanted to take the " easy way " to get to the top.
More on Steroids
Question:The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27 it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
There is my proof ! Steve himself flat out comdeming steroids in bodybuilding and denying he ever used them. now I know what you're thinking why take his word? one if you ever read anything about Reeves you know he was a man of integrity and a man of his word. and what motivation would there be for him to lie? steroids when they first came on the scene wern't illegal and most of the past champions all have admited to using them , Arnold , Zane , Oliva , even Bill Pearl !!
To give you an idea of what type of person Steve Reeves is there was an awards ceremony for the Reeves and Arnold was there and Arnold told Steve that he was his idol when he was a boy first starting out and he always wanted to be just like him , Arnold was laying it on thick and Steve said " Arnold don't give me that bullshit , I read your book and you said Reg Park was your hero. " Arnold replied " thats because I could never be like you . " he was a no nonsense type of guy.
Couple that with the fact that Dianabol wasn't even produced until 1956 , six years after he retired. and one of the first weightlifter/bodybuilders to starting using them under their creator ( Dr John Zeigler ) was in 1959 was Bill March . steroids didn't make their way out to the west coast scene until the earliest 1960 , and it very easy to see that he never used period.
Steve had among the best genetics ever. is it really had to believe a man of 6'1" could weigh 215lbs naturally? lol I could see if in 1947 he was 6'1" and 250lbs but get serious. its one thing to question if he took steroids but to say he did and spectulate on the types and duration is just bullshit period.
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Here is my proof ;)
Building THE CLASSIC PHYSIQUE The Natural Way by Steve Reeves
page 170.
The Subject of Steroids
Question: What are your thoughts on the steroid issue in bodybuilding?
Steve Reeves: I think the introduction of steroids was the worst thing to ever happen to bodybuilding. To me, the bodybuilders of today are clones. They all look like they're out of the same mold. Sure come of them have blonde hair,others dark hair, some have fair skin others dark skin and somre are shorter and some are taleer,but all of them look like they were stamped out of the same mold. And that's the sort of bloated-tissue look caused by steroids. In my day, from 100 yards away, you could tell if a person was Steve Reeves or John Grimek , Clancy Ross or Reg Park. people were individuals at that time. Now they workout with the same routine, with the same steroids , as a result , they've come to look too much like one another.
They waste thier lives training all the time. There's more to life than trianing. And when thy're off the drugs, they don't look that great. Contrast that with John Grimek - I saw John about six months ago - at age 85 - and he's still looking good ! in my day , bodybuilding was a health oriented activity - instead of the drug-orientedsport it has become. Steroids surfaced in bodybuilding , I think because people wanted to take the " easy way " to get to the top.
More on Steroids
Question:The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27 it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
There is my proof ! Steve himself flat out comdeming steroids in bodybuilding and denying he ever used them. now I know what you're thinking why take his word? one if you ever read anything about Reeves you know he was a man of integrity and a man of his word. and what motivation would there be for him to lie? steroids when they first came on the scene wern't illegal and most of the past champions all have admited to using them , Arnold , Zane , Oliva , even Bill Pearl !!
To give you an idea of what type of person Steve Reeves is there was an awards ceremony for the Reeves and Arnold was there and Arnold told Steve that he was his idol when he was a boy first starting out and he always wanted to be just like him , Arnold was laying it on thick and Steve said " Arnold don't give me that bullshit , I read your book and you said Reg Park was your hero. " Arnold replied " thats because I could never be like you . " he was a no nonsense type of guy.
Couple that with the fact that Dianabol wasn't even produced until 1956 , six years after he retired. and one of the first weightlifter/bodybuilders to starting using them under their creator ( Dr John Zeigler ) was in 1959 was Bill March . steroids didn't make their way out to the west coast scene until the earliest 1960 , and it very easy to see that he never used period.
Steve had among the best genetics ever. is it really had to believe a man of 6'1" could weigh 215lbs naturally? lol I could see if in 1947 he was 6'1" and 250lbs but get serious. its one thing to question if he took steroids but to say he did and spectulate on the types and duration is just bullshit period.
I second all of this!
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I second all of this!
Bodybuilders never lie too, this is good enough for me too ::). Seriously, I don't care either way, but, even Nubret flip flops on the whether he used or not issue. It doesn't matter regardless. You either like the physique or you don't. Whether they juice or not, nobody knows but them.
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Here is my proof ;)
Building THE CLASSIC PHYSIQUE The Natural Way by Steve Reeves
page 170.
The Subject of Steroids
Question: What are your thoughts on the steroid issue in bodybuilding?
Steve Reeves: I think the introduction of steroids was the worst thing to ever happen to bodybuilding. To me, the bodybuilders of today are clones. They all look like they're out of the same mold. Sure come of them have blonde hair,others dark hair, some have fair skin others dark skin and somre are shorter and some are taleer,but all of them look like they were stamped out of the same mold. And that's the sort of bloated-tissue look caused by steroids. In my day, from 100 yards away, you could tell if a person was Steve Reeves or John Grimek , Clancy Ross or Reg Park. people were individuals at that time. Now they workout with the same routine, with the same steroids , as a result , they've come to look too much like one another.
They waste thier lives training all the time. There's more to life than trianing. And when thy're off the drugs, they don't look that great. Contrast that with John Grimek - I saw John about six months ago - at age 85 - and he's still looking good ! in my day , bodybuilding was a health oriented activity - instead of the drug-orientedsport it has become. Steroids surfaced in bodybuilding , I think because people wanted to take the " easy way " to get to the top.
More on Steroids
Question:The other day I was at the local library I was looking at a book entitled ," Arnold An Unauthorized Biography " by an author named Wendy Leigh . on page 27 it stated that Kurt Marnul told Arnold ( Schwarzenegger ) about steriods . Marnul said that he had learned about steriods and their dosages from Steve Reeves , whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 Vacation . is this true?
Steve Reeves : That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the Internet. No its not true. I never heard of steriods until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the " Mr World " contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie , The Last Days Of Pompeii. "
There is my proof ! Steve himself flat out comdeming steroids in bodybuilding and denying he ever used them. now I know what you're thinking why take his word? one if you ever read anything about Reeves you know he was a man of integrity and a man of his word. and what motivation would there be for him to lie? steroids when they first came on the scene wern't illegal and most of the past champions all have admited to using them , Arnold , Zane , Oliva , even Bill Pearl !!
To give you an idea of what type of person Steve Reeves is there was an awards ceremony for the Reeves and Arnold was there and Arnold told Steve that he was his idol when he was a boy first starting out and he always wanted to be just like him , Arnold was laying it on thick and Steve said " Arnold don't give me that bullshit , I read your book and you said Reg Park was your hero. " Arnold replied " thats because I could never be like you . " he was a no nonsense type of guy.
Couple that with the fact that Dianabol wasn't even produced until 1956 , six years after he retired. and one of the first weightlifter/bodybuilders to starting using them under their creator ( Dr John Zeigler ) was in 1959 was Bill March . steroids didn't make their way out to the west coast scene until the earliest 1960 , and it very easy to see that he never used period.
Steve had among the best genetics ever. is it really had to believe a man of 6'1" could weigh 215lbs naturally? lol I could see if in 1947 he was 6'1" and 250lbs but get serious. its one thing to question if he took steroids but to say he did and spectulate on the types and duration is just bullshit period.
What a load of shit. Just because he says he didn't use steroids doesn't mean hes telling the truth. Come on ND. ALL bodybuilders lie about their gear usage, whether its Lee and his "bit of deca in the offseason", or Arnold with his "three dbol a day". I made a thread about it before - that got deleted - detailing Nubrets love of the gear. The fucker even sold it. Yet he was all natrual. Who says so? HE DOES! I don't give a shit if Reeves used gear or not, but you can't catagorically state that he never used gear - just as gh15 can't catagorically state that he did.
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What a load of shit. Just because he says he didn't use steroids doesn't mean hes telling the truth. Come on ND. ALL bodybuilders lie about their gear usage, whether its Lee and his "bit of deca in the offseason", or Arnold with his "three dbol a day". I made a thread about it before - that got deleted - detailing Nubrets love of the gear. The fucker even sold it. Yet he was all natrual. Who says so? HE DOES! I don't give a shit if Reeves used gear or not, but you can't catagorically state that he never used gear - just as gh15 can't catagorically state that he did.
No not all bodybuilders lie about their use. maybe now and days they have to , but back then then were legal without a prescription . and lets entertain he did use, what purpose would it serve to lie? none.
And I can say catagorically he didn't use anabolic steroids , especially considering they wern't invented or available in the United States until at the very least six years after his retirement from competitive bodybuilding.
use some logic he was just 215lbs are you telling me a natural bodybuilder at 6'1" can't weigh an un-ripped 215lbs??? especially one with among the greatest genetics ever?
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No not all bodybuilders lie about their use. maybe now and days they have to , but back then then were legal without a prescription . and lets entertain he did use, what purpose would it serve to lie? none.
And I can say catagorically he didn't use anabolic steroids , especially considering they wern't invented or available in the United States until at the very least six years after his retirement from competitive bodybuilding.
use some logic he was just 215lbs are you telling me a natural bodybuilder at 6'1" can't weigh an un-ripped 215lbs??? especially one with among the greatest genetics ever?
kid,,you living in a dream. not only that you didnt prove your argument but now you making yourself look like a joke. anabolic steroids were available in the usa for ATHLETES since 1940. stevve reeves as i said before ONLY experiemnted with steroid use,,only later in his movie career he was more of so called juicer. so yes he was natural in his competetive career (put aside some experiemnting with rough versions of hormones).
it is exteremly hard to be 6 feet 215 with 5-6% natural. as i said many times before original genetics got nothing to do with size and conditioning achieved through training and "supp". few of the best ever bodybuilders had average minus genetics to begin with (mr. yates had/have horrible genetics)
next time you try to demonstrate your points i suggest looking for other sources than the bodybuilder him/her self. look twards the medical books,,,it might give you more backup.
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kid,,you living in a dream. not only that you didnt prove your argument but now you making yourself look like a joke. anabolic steroids were available in the usa for ATHLETES since 1940. stevve reeves as i said before ONLY experiemnted with steroid use,,only later in his movie career he was more of so called juicer. so yes he was natural in his competetive career (put aside some experiemnting with rough versions of hormones).
it is exteremly hard to be 6 feet 215 with 5-6% natural. as i said many times before original genetics got nothing to do with size and conditioning achieved through training and "supp". few of the best ever bodybuilders had average minus genetics to begin with (mr. yates had/have horrible genetics)
next time you try to demonstrate your points i suggest looking for other sources than the bodybuilder him/her self. look twards the medical books,,,it might give you more backup.
While he was in great shape in the movies he was in better shape and conditioning in his competitve career.
Your argument sucks and is all a lie.
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A spelling error worthy of Dzulboy. ;D
puy i mean yup
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While he was in great shape in the movies he was in better shape and conditioning in his competitve career.
Your argument sucks and is all a lie.
talk me after you know your hormones better ;)
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While he was in great shape in the movies he was in better shape and conditioning in his competitve career.
Your argument sucks and is all a lie.
hows the training going TA? You looked pretty shredded in those last pics. You are not going to peak too early, are you?
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kid,,you living in a dream. not only that you didnt prove your argument but now you making yourself look like a joke. anabolic steroids were available in the usa for ATHLETES since 1940. stevve reeves as i said before ONLY experiemnted with steroid use,,only later in his movie career he was more of so called juicer. so yes he was natural in his competetive career (put aside some experiemnting with rough versions of hormones).
it is exteremly hard to be 6 feet 215 with 5-6% natural. as i said many times before original genetics got nothing to do with size and conditioning achieved through training and "supp". few of the best ever bodybuilders had average minus genetics to begin with (mr. yates had/have horrible genetics)
next time you try to demonstrate your points i suggest looking for other sources than the bodybuilder him/her self. look twards the medical books,,,it might give you more backup.
You make baseless claims and when called on your sources you ignore the question . answer the questions , stop avoiding them.
provide me with your sources that
A) steroids were available since 1940
B) how you know Steve experimented
stop pussy footing around. how do you know he experimented , when he did , what he did and for how long .
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hows the training going TA? You looked pretty shredded in those last pics. You are not going to peak too early, are you?
I shouldn`t but I know I will be even leaner after the September date.
I`m taking this shit to the extreme. I`m going low as possible and am not going to stop until I do.
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I shouldn`t but I know I will be even leaner after the September date.
I`m taking this shit to the extreme. I`m going low as possible and am not going to stop until I do.
Good luck bro, looking good.
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nobody would be at the olympia without drugs ::)
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Steeve Reeves would never admit to using steroids, even though he did, becuase it would reduce him from a natural "icon" (which he isn't anyways in my opinion) to a juiced peon
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You make baseless claims and when called on your sources you ignore the question . answer the questions , stop avoiding them.
provide me with your sources that
A) steroids were available since 1940
B) how you know Steve experimented
stop pussy footing around. how do you know he experimented , when he did , what he did and for how long .
kid,, do you THINK that i will go and bring quotes for you?? you see why i call you kid now,,
go and read through my posts and you will find everything you look for. do a search on what ever search engine you are using google? yahoo? and you will most likely find what you are looking for. bare in mind that it probably wont change your mind since it is hard to change the mind of the average person,,average media person,,etc,,they all see it as black or white and nothing in between.
not to forgot! (arafat,, may he be wrotten in hell,, used to say not to forget alot :D) it is immposible to proof 100% either way due to the fact it was 70-80 years ago and steroids (including many other drugs) were not even classified as scheduled items (no one knew or cared) and it was the beggining of what i call the supreme physiqe era.
look deeply into 1910-1920 and find me someone that resembele a bodybuilder in any way shape or form. you WONT BE ABLE TO,,and im pretty sure you know why my friend ;)
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kid,, do you THINK that i will go and bring quotes for you?? you see why i call you kid now,,
go and read through my posts and you will find everything you look for. do a search on what ever search engine you are using google? yahoo? and you will most likely find what you are looking for. bare in mind that it probably wont change your mind since it is hard to change the mind of the average person,,average media person,,etc,,they all see it as black or white and nothing in between.
not to forgot! (arafat,, may he be wrotten in hell,, used to say not to forget alot :D) it is immposible to proof 100% either way due to the fact it was 70-80 years ago and steroids (including many other drugs) were not even classified as scheduled items (no one knew or cared) and it was the beggining of what i call the supreme physiqe era.
look deeply into 1910-1920 and find me someone that resembele a bodybuilder in any way shape or form. you WONT BE ABLE TO,,and im pretty sure you know why my friend ;)
Of course you wont bring the quotes to me because you're full of shit. period. you've been exposed for a know-nothing jackass. you made the claim that Steve experimented with them the burden of proof lies on you to prove your claim. admit to me you can't back up your claim.
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look deeply into 1910-1920 and find me someone that resembele a bodybuilder in any way shape or form. you WONT BE ABLE TO,,and im pretty sure you know why my friend ;)
What about Eugene Sandow, himself, GH 15 ?!
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What about Eugene Sandow, himself, GH 15 ?!
He was definetely gay. You can find facts online or just by looking at his photos.
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Of course you wont bring the quotes to me because you're full of shit. period. you've been exposed for a know-nothing jackass. you made the claim that Steve experimented with them the burden of proof lies on you to prove your claim. admit to me you can't back up your claim.
you havent learned something very imortant about gh15.
gh15 never lies. go back and read my 600? posts and you will find all your internet proofs and answers. you try to make me bring down a good bodybuilder and i wont do it although i EASILY could.
let him rest in peace kid and keep learning, researching and bodybuilding.
good luck
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you havent learned something very imortant about gh15.
gh15 never lies. go back and read my 600? posts and you will find all your internet proofs and answers. you try to make me bring down a good bodybuilder and i wont do it although i EASILY could.
let him rest in peace kid and keep learning, researching and bodybuilding.
good luck
Stop avoiding the questions , provide me with your sources for your claims , put up or shut up. you're the child , children run when questioned about thier lies and thats what you're doing.
show me your sources for your claims. show me links to your claims.
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show to the board any links that prove steve reeves never experiemented with hormones. show links of him passing drug tests,,you CANT.
it is obvious none of us can show links because this was 70-80 years ago. hormones were there for the bodybuilder but the proofs of use or not use werent due to the era.
you keep claiming he was natural. prove it 100% then,,you CAN NOT!
as you can notice very clearly i do not avoid any quesiton getbigger asks me,,they all get answered sooner or later,,,i just refrain from bringing here stupid "proofs" like the ones you posted in post number 870 ;)
again people LEARN YOUR BODYBUILDING.
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show to the board any links that prove steve reeves never experiemented with hormones. show links of him passing drug tests,,you CANT.
it is obvious none of us can show links because this was 70-80 years ago. hormones were there for the bodybuilder but the proofs of use or not use werent due to the era.
you keep claiming he was natural. prove it 100% then,,you CAN NOT!
as you can notice very clearly i do not avoid any quesiton getbigger asks me,,they all get answered sooner or later,,,i just refrain from bringing here stupid "proofs" like the ones you posted in post number 870 ;)
again people LEARN YOUR BODYBUILDING.
try 50 years ago moron.
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show to the board any links that prove steve reeves never experiemented with hormones. show links of him passing drug tests,,you CANT.
it is obvious none of us can show links because this was 70-80 years ago. hormones were there for the bodybuilder but the proofs of use or not use werent due to the era.
you keep claiming he was natural. prove it 100% then,,you CAN NOT!
as you can notice very clearly i do not avoid any quesiton getbigger asks me,,they all get answered sooner or later,,,i just refrain from bringing here stupid "proofs" like the ones you posted in post number 870 ;)
again people LEARN YOUR BODYBUILDING.
You know, I'd like to see you publish a scientific journal without using "stupid proofs" :-\
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2005-1935= 70,,,rounding it down a little for the locos amongst us ;)
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2005-1935= 70,,,rounding it down a little for the locos amongst us ;)
WTF are you babbling about? Reeves was barely a teenager in 1935, his heyday was in the 1950's.
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LISTEN STEEVE REEVES WAS ON CELLTECH AND ANATOR 70 ,WHICH HELPED HIM GAIN 70 LBS IN 70 DAYS
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show to the board any links that prove steve reeves never experiemented with hormones. show links of him passing drug tests,,you CANT.
it is obvious none of us can show links because this was 70-80 years ago. hormones were there for the bodybuilder but the proofs of use or not use werent due to the era.
you keep claiming he was natural. prove it 100% then,,you CAN NOT!
as you can notice very clearly i do not avoid any quesiton getbigger asks me,,they all get answered sooner or later,,,i just refrain from bringing here stupid "proofs" like the ones you posted in post number 870 ;)
again people LEARN YOUR BODYBUILDING.
Stop deflecting ! you made the claim you provide the proof. stop with the half-ass reverse psychology . You claimed to know he experimented , please site your sources. I provided a direct quote from the man himself denying ever taking steroids and not even hearing of them until the mid 1960s . that is MORE than you have done.
Again show me the direct sources and quotes that say Steve Reeves experimented with steroids. and if you cannot provide links to quotes or references then stop using them , thats called hearsay in other terms bullshit.
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sarcasm i suggest for you to do a little more research on steeve reeves and his teenager years where he developed his natural body ;)
also as requested i will i attach pictures of 100% natural bodybuilders of the era before 1925.
one is a picture of mr sandow. exeptionally gifted 100% NATURAL athlete of the early 1900s. FOOD INTAKE ONLY with RESISTENCE TRAINING.
now get out of your illusion and go train ;)
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sarcasm i suggest for you to do a little more research on steeve reeves and his teenager years where he developed his natural body ;)
also as requested i will i attach pictures of 100% natural bodybuilders of the era before 1925.
one is a picture of mr sandow. exeptionally gifted 100% NATURAL athlete of the early 1900s. FOOD INTAKE ONLY with RESISTENCE TRAINING.
now get out of your illusion and go train ;)
i will absolutely GAURANTEE you that Sandow has more muscle than you would if you were totally natural, plus he was probably stronger than you natural than you are juiced to the gills.
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Stop deflecting ! you made the claim you provide the proof. stop with the half-ass reverse psychology . You claimed to know he experimented , please site your sources. I provided a direct quote from the man himself denying ever taking steroids and not even hearing of them until the mid 1960s . that is MORE than you have done.
Again show me the direct sources and quotes that say Steve Reeves experimented with steroids. and if you cannot provide links to quotes or references then stop using them , thats called hearsay in other terms bullshit.
you are lucky i even responding to yoru nonsense because you take precious time from me my friend ;),,as i said,, i never lie and got no reason to. go and reread my comments of the subject and see that right as of now you sound like a joke,,,both your "references" and your outlook on real bodybuilding.
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sarcasm i suggest for you to do a little more research on steeve reeves and his teenager years where he developed his natural body ;)
also as requested i will i attach pictures of 100% natural bodybuilders of the era before 1925.
one is a picture of mr sandow. exeptionally gifted 100% NATURAL athlete of the early 1900s. FOOD INTAKE ONLY with RESISTENCE TRAINING.
now get out of your illusion and go train ;)
Again don't speculate , provide facts. I have Steve Reeves' books " Building THE CLASSIC PHYSIQUE The Natural Way " And " Chris LeClaire’s Worlds To Conquer " I also have numerous issues of Your Physique , Ironman , Health & Strenght , Muscular Development and Muscle & Fitness , Flex with articles by and about Steve Reeves .
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show to the board any links that prove steve reeves never experiemented with hormones. show links of him passing drug tests,,you CANT.
it is obvious none of us can show links because this was 70-80 years ago. hormones were there for the bodybuilder but the proofs of use or not use werent due to the era.
you keep claiming he was natural. prove it 100% then,,you CAN NOT!
as you can notice very clearly i do not avoid any quesiton getbigger asks me,,they all get answered sooner or later,,,i just refrain from bringing here stupid "proofs" like the ones you posted in post number 870 ;)
again people LEARN YOUR BODYBUILDING.
How come I can show links for the battle of Hasting in 1066?
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i will absolutely GAURANTEE you that Sandow has more muscle than you would if you were totally natural, plus he was probably stronger than you natural than you are juiced to the gills.
i have no doubt that mr. sandow was more muscular than me naturally. bigger? dont think so,,stronger? um maybe not sure since he been dead for 100 years :D ,,,but ya he was exellent bodybuilder.
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you are lucky i even responding to yoru nonsense because you take precious time from me my friend ;),,as i said,, i never lie and got no reason to. go and reread my comments of the subject and see that right as of now you sound like a joke,,,both your "references" and your outlook on real bodybuilding.
I'm not lucky you're responding . you made a claim thats dubious and I'm calling you out on it , your credibility is on the line NOT mine. you don't lie ::) you're just very good at running from the truth. answer me this.
Where did you read/hear that Steve Reeves experimented with steroids?
Where did you read/hear the duration and types of steroids he experimented with?
Where did you read/hear how he attained them ?
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I'm not lucky you're responding . you made a claim thats dubious and I'm calling you out on it , your credibility is on the line NOT mine. you don't lie ::) you're just very good at running from the truth. answer me this.
Where did you read/hear that Steve Reeves experimented with steroids?
Where did you read/hear the duration and types of steroids he experimented with?
Where did you read/hear how he attained them ?
I would like to know as well because I have NEVER heard once of these claims. EVER.
Not even from the people he competed with,training partners or any other bodybuilder alive or dead.
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Again don't speculate , provide facts. I have Steve Reeves' books " Building THE CLASSIC PHYSIQUE The Natural Way " And " Chris LeClaire’s Worlds To Conquer " I also have numerous issues of Your Physique , Ironman , Health & Strenght , Muscular Development and Muscle & Fitness , Flex with articles by and about Steve Reeves .
:D its all good you and your magazines. my facts are in my physiqe and on my physiqe. 90% of the bodybuilding indutry is built on my word and business,,what are you talking about kid?,, i been in this game for so long i forgot how it is to live like a normal person.
ALL of what i write is coming out of MY experience as IFBB PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER. ALL of what i write is out of years doing bodybuilding and power lifting well before i competed on both a natural local level and hormonized level and then entering the hormone world business wise.
every single word i write here is flowing like music,,you know why? because its my OCCUPATION. i do it 24/7,, i live it and know how to transform body from 160lb average dude to 230 monster in less than 24 months.
i get payed to do it,,,i have people begging for me to give them a single hour of my advice for $500. im not only "SELLING STEROIDS",,i have a deep knowledge of the subject with years upon years of experience on my physiqe and on others physiqe. when you wake up in the morning you go to work right? when i wake up in the morning i go to work too,,,only diff is my work is bodybuilding and everything around it,,and i can assure you that hormones is HUGE part of it now and even back in the 40s it took a lot of the bodybuilder time due to experimenting with all sort of rough material and compounds.
trust me i got no reason to lie to you,,i said it once and ill say it once again. I WILL NEVER SELL HORMONES TO GETBIGGERS AND MY IDENTITY WILL NEVER COME OUT because the moment it will i am out of here.
so enjoy it while you have it and learn to respect it ;)
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:D its all good you and your magazines. my facts are in my physiqe and on my physiqe. 90% of the bodybuilding indutry is built on my word and business,,what are you talking about kid?,, i been in this game for so long i forgot how it is to live like a normal person.
ALL of what i write is coming out of MY experience as IFBB PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER. ALL of what i write is out of years doing bodybuilding and power lifting well before i competed on both a natural local level and hormonized level and then entering the hormone world business wise.
every single word i write here is flowing like music,,you know why? because its my OCCUPATION. i do it 24/7,, i live it and know how to transform body from 160lb average dude to 230 monster in less than 24 months.
i get payed to do it,,,i have people begging for me to give them a single hour of my advice for $500. im not only "SELLING STEROIDS",,i have a deep knowledge of the subject with years upon years of experience on my physiqe and on others physiqe. when you wake up in the morning you go to work right? when i wake up in the morning i go to work too,,,only diff is my work is bodybuilding and everything around it,,and i can assure you that hormones is HUGE part of it now and even back in the 40s it took a lot of the bodybuilder time due to experimenting with all sort of rough material and compounds.
trust me i got no reason to lie to you,,i said it once and ill say it once again. I WILL NEVER SELL HORMONES TO GETBIGGERS AND MY IDENTITY WILL NEVER COME OUT because the moment it will i am out of here.
so enjoy it while you have it and learn to respect it ;)
Now you're philerbustering. none of the garbage you just posted has anything to do with what I asked you to prove. how do you know for a fact that Steve Reeves experimented with steroids. answer the question.
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is this kid wacked?
if you open your big american eyes and read english slightly better you would SEE that i said it WAS MY OPINION! ! !
i been in this business and sport for long enough to know within 60 seconds after looking at someone what this someone is on. i can probably back it up if chosed to but there is not 100% back up when it comes to early 40 and the 40s in general when it comes to hormones because they were not deep into the sport,,they were new thus experiemnting was the chosen route.
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is this kid wacked?
if you open your big american eyes and read english slightly better you would SEE that i said it WAS MY OPINION! ! !
i been in this business and sport for long enough to know within 60 seconds after looking at someone what this someone is on. i can probably back it up if chosed to but there is not 100% back up when it comes to early 40 and the 40s in general when it comes to hormones because they were not deep into the sport,,they were new thus experiemnting was the chosen route.
LMFAO at the self-styled guru who can spot a juicer within 60s seconds. and NO you never prefaced your statements with " this is my opinion " stop back-peddling and changing your story. you're statement decalred steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about. thats NOT an opinion , thats a matter-of-fact statement. and I called you out on just how you know for a fact that he experimented with steroids and when pressed you back-peddled and said " its my opinion " back up your claims with something more concrete than a vauge reference to the Nazi's experimenting in the 1940s.
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LMFAO at the self-styled guru who can spot a juicer within 60s seconds. and NO you never prefaced your statements with " this is my opinion " stop back-peddling and changing your story. you're statement decalred steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about. thats NOT an opinion , thats a matter-of-fact statement. and I called you out on just how you know for a fact that he experimented with steroids and when pressed you back-peddled and said " its my opinion " back up your claims with something more concrete than a vauge reference to the Nazi's experimenting in the 1940s.
Why are you getting so bent out of shape about Reeves?
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first what is LMFAO? second you gotta understand that anything i say here is as solid as the planet you live on. i like steve reeves but again you making him look bad by posing bunch of crap out of magazines and books/brochures ;) that im on their cover couple times a year,,i can tell you they are not accurate,,infact they are FAR from accurate,,if you only knew how much diff i look in the photo session and at the end product you would never buy a single magazine again ;). i said more than once before that it WAS MY OPINION on more than few posts. read back and wear your glassess this time.
now, you are trying to win the battle when you already lost the war. the 100% proof that reeves was experimenting with hormones is with him 6 feet under it CANT BE PROVED 100%.
here is an example of more recent natural bodybuilding:
"Natural Muscle" model caught with steroids
A model was arrested on drug charges last week after he
allegedly received a package in the mail that contained
anabolic steroids.
Authorities served a search warrant last Thursday at the
Monterey home of Anthony Chobanian, 28, who won the
"Natural Muscle" model search for Natural Model magazine
in 2000.
The search allegedly turned up more than 4,000 pills of
suspected steroids.
you must remember my friend that BODYBUILDING IS HORMONES AND HORMONES IS BODYBUILDING. you aim at BUILDING your body to an IMPRESSIVE level. it CAN NOT and will not be achieved to an impressive level NATURALLY. period! never was never is and never will be.
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i might add if i may,, that it is not only advanced level bodybuilders who hormonize themselves. as of today it is EVERY ONE,,from the 165 tipped guy in your local gym through the 190lb cut guy in the club,, to the 215lb big guy on your state championships to the 260lb pro.
we ALL are ADDCITED TO HORMONES. reeves was only the experiemental beggining. he gave us the courage to get to what we are now physiqe wize
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i might add if i may,, that it is not only advanced level bodybuilders who hormonize themselves. as of today it is EVERY ONE,,from the 165 tipped guy in your local gym through the 190lb cut guy in the club,, to the 215lb big guy on your state championships to the 260lb pro.
we ALL are ADDCITED TO HORMONES. reeves was only the experiemental beggining. he gave us the courage to get to what we are now physiqe wize
::)
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damn, doesn't anyone train natural anymore?
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damn, doesn't anyone train natural anymore?
Apparently not. I honestly thought I had gone my entire life exogenous-steroid free, but, I have been shown the light. :-X
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No not all bodybuilders lie about their use. maybe now and days they have to , but back then then were legal without a prescription . and lets entertain he did use, what purpose would it serve to lie? none.
And I can say catagorically he didn't use anabolic steroids , especially considering they wern't invented or available in the United States until at the very least six years after his retirement from competitive bodybuilding.
use some logic he was just 215lbs are you telling me a natural bodybuilder at 6'1" can't weigh an un-ripped 215lbs??? especially one with among the greatest genetics ever?
I have to agree. Why would Reeves use steroids after he retired from bodybuilding. As Arnold found out, the movies don't want actors with too much size, so he wouldn't have used to be bigger for the films. So whatever reason would he have for using?
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I have to agree. Why would Reeves use steroids after he retired from bodybuilding. As Arnold found out, the movies don't want actors with too much size, so he wouldn't have used to be bigger for the films. So whatever reason would he have for using?
so he can be more giganic as a movie star and play roles that size and muscle combo is a big part of them. the range number 215-230 is very common for "naturals". not too big and not too small just good enough for the piggy bank,,ask lacour ;)
contrary to the belief of many,, a 215lb bodybuilder is a very big boy. anything beyond that involve lots of lot of good quality. good quality hormones that is :D.
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Isn't it obvious? Steve is his secret lover. He also defended him in my mass monsters vs/ swimmers thread. Go Steevie!
LMFAO = Laugh My Fucken Ass Off
I think you might be onto something here. Some of the people here really take this place too seriously.
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ND, gh can't prove he did, you can't prove he didn't. But you can't base your opinions on what HE SAID!!!!! OF COURSE HES GOING TO DENY IT!!!! But, interestingly, there was an interview with Sergio where he said that Reeves used steroids. So who do you believe?
There are thousands of straight talking, honourable, 'stand up' guys that say they've never done steroids - and they're lying. Who cares.
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ND, gh can't prove he did, you can't prove he didn't. But you can't base your opinions on what HE SAID!!!!! OF COURSE HES GOING TO DENY IT!!!! But, interestingly, there was an interview with Sergio where he said that Reeves used steroids. So who do you believe?
There are thousands of straight talking, honourable, 'stand up' guys that say they've never done steroids - and they're lying. Who cares.
You are right, it can't be proved either way and moreover, who cares? The way some of these guys revere Reeves, you would think he fathered their first born or something.
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this is the main proof to show you just HOW MUCH BIG OF A PART drugs are on the average bodybuilder and fitness entusiastic's life in usa.
jason cutler would be stuck doing ymca shows if not for drugs.
dexjax would be stuck doing the jax district light weight if not for drugs
heath would be just another black guy with good cuts at 160lb if not for drugs
mike mata would be just,,well would be doing what he does now ;),,if not for drugs
and ron coleman,,well ron coleman does have out of this world physiqe natural or not natural but even ron coleman would be stuck doing mr texas show,,,or good ole south eastern or something,,, and would NOT win it!! if not for drugs.
there is no resembele between the murderer and a bodybuilder! and he doesnt do a thing all day,,,only sleep,,eat and work out some he should be big... he looks like the typical neigbor of yours that can play for fun in a softball team in the best case scenario
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
bill pearl was playing with tablets and was born at the right time when everyone were too busy to think about hormones.
arnold was born at the right place with the right genetic response to hormones with everything cheap and bunch of drug users around him in the gyms at times when no one cared about aas,,same for sergio by the way!
dorian took advantage of the law and used hormones in catastrophic doses and duration resulting in size and conditioning second only to ron.
ron didnt care because he was the fuckin LE
*can you even tell that the ugly wife ever EVER done any type of sport activity?? she got 20+% bf% and looks petite and fregile.
So basically, all these people sat down with you and/or called you on the phone and let you know exactly what they did or didn't do?
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first what is LMFAO? second you gotta understand that anything i say here is as solid as the planet you live on. i like steve reeves but again you making him look bad by posing bunch of crap out of magazines and books/brochures ;) that im on their cover couple times a year,,i can tell you they are not accurate,,infact they are FAR from accurate,,if you only knew how much diff i look in the photo session and at the end product you would never buy a single magazine again ;). i said more than once before that it WAS MY OPINION on more than few posts. read back and wear your glassess this time.
now, you are trying to win the battle when you already lost the war. the 100% proof that reeves was experimenting with hormones is with him 6 feet under it CANT BE PROVED 100%.
here is an example of more recent natural bodybuilding:
"Natural Muscle" model caught with steroids
A model was arrested on drug charges last week after he
allegedly received a package in the mail that contained
anabolic steroids.
Authorities served a search warrant last Thursday at the
Monterey home of Anthony Chobanian, 28, who won the
"Natural Muscle" model search for Natural Model magazine
in 2000.
The search allegedly turned up more than 4,000 pills of
suspected steroids.
you must remember my friend that BODYBUILDING IS HORMONES AND HORMONES IS BODYBUILDING. you aim at BUILDING your body to an IMPRESSIVE level. it CAN NOT and will not be achieved to an impressive level NATURALLY. period! never was never is and never will be.
What you just posted has NOTHING to do with what you claimed. you claimed he experimented with steroids and when pressed on the comment you did everything to avoid answering the questions. then you claimed it was your OPINION , your first comments were NOT prefaced with the term opinion.
You eluded to what he experimented with , the duration and the fact that anabloics were in use back in the 1940s , I asked you to provide me to links & sources of your claimed information and you've just spouted the same nonsense.
Now please explain your opinion on how and why you feel he experimented with steroids , please lead me down the path of your deduction & reasoning .
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I have to agree. Why would Reeves use steroids after he retired from bodybuilding. As Arnold found out, the movies don't want actors with too much size, so he wouldn't have used to be bigger for the films. So whatever reason would he have for using?
Great point ! When in fact after Reeves retired from bodybuilding movie directors and producers all insited he drop-weight out of fear of litteraly dwarfing his co-stars. Reeves competed at 215lbs and he went down to a 187lbs for the movies .
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ND, gh can't prove he did, you can't prove he didn't. But you can't base your opinions on what HE SAID!!!!! OF COURSE HES GOING TO DENY IT!!!! But, interestingly, there was an interview with Sergio where he said that Reeves used steroids. So who do you believe?
There are thousands of straight talking, honourable, 'stand up' guys that say they've never done steroids - and they're lying. Who cares.
I know he can't prove it but he didn't ! and I don't need to prove it . Carl Sagan the Pulitzer-prize winning astronomer once said " Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. " and in this case he can't give anything that even resembles evidence .
Its this simple Steve Reeves flat out denied using steroids and your logic that he's going to deny it nonsense . why on earth would he deny it? scores of bodybuilders admitied their use. Arnold Schwarzenegger , Lou Ferrigno , Frank Zane , Franco Colombu , Dave Draper , Sergio Oliva , Bill Pearl , etc . he would have absolutely no reason to lie about any uses what so ever.
Many guys have to lie about thier use NOW because they are a controled substance in the United States , back in Arnold hey-day they wern't . and the Sergio Oliva interveiw you are talking about , he says Arnold denys his used and I personally showed you 4 references to the contrary , so Sergio is mistaken on that and we're to believe he knew Reeves took them? and in the same interveiw Sergio also ' claims ' Arnold was one of the very first people to bring steroids into the United States , that contradicts his claims Reeves was using them , how could Arnold be the first to bring them over if Reeves predates Arnold by 17 years? lets who to believe the guy himself or Sergios claim? get serious.
Anabloic steroids were NOT available for use until at the least 1956 thats six years after Steve Reeves retired . I can prove this , gh15 makes some vauge references of testosterone use from the Nazis what does that have to do with Reeves? I can post the same information .
Scientists in Nazi Germany first isolated testosterone in the 1930s by distilling 15,000 liters of urine collected from German police officers. They later synthesized it in the lab. In early animal tests, injections of testosterone restored vitality in castrated roosters.
They isolated testosterone by the 1930s in Nazi Germany , what does that have to do with use in the United States? and Steve Reeves? nothing .
Using the Nazi's research after the war , Russians were using testosterone on their athletes at the 1954 Olympics and they were cleaning house , this is how drug use in the United States got started the team Dr for the United States weightlifting team was Dr John Zeigler and the story goes he got one of the coaches for the Russian team drunk on vodka and he confessed they were using testosterone on their athletes .
Returning to the United States Ziegler who worked for Ciba Pharmaceuticals made Dianabol and started to test it on himself and soon after others , one of the first weightlifters/bodybuilders to start using anabolic steroids in the U.S. was Bill March in 1959 and the rest as they say is history.
now if he has proof that steroids and anabloics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless.
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I know he can't prove it but he didn't ! and I don't need to prove it . Carl Sagan the Pulitzer-prize winning astronomer once said " Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. " and in this case he can't give anything that even resembles evidence .
Its this simple Steve Reeves flat out denied using steroids and your logic that he's going to deny it nonsense . why on earth would he deny it? scores of bodybuilders admitied their use. Arnold Schwarzenegger , Lou Ferrigno , Frank Zane , Franco Colombu , Dave Draper , Sergio Oliva , Bill Pearl , etc . he would have absolutely no reason to lie about any uses what so ever.
Many guys have to lie about thier use NOW because they are a controled substance in the United States , back in Arnold hey-day they wern't . and the Sergio Oliva interveiw you are talking about , he says Arnold denys his used and I personally showed you 4 references to the contrary , so Sergio is mistaken on that and we're to believe he knew Reeves took them? and in the same interveiw Sergio also ' claims ' Arnold was one of the very first people to bring steroids into the United States , that contradicts his claims Reeves was using them , how could Arnold be the first to bring them over if Reeves predates Arnold by 17 years? lets who to believe the guy himself or Sergios claim? get serious.
Anabloic steroids were NOT available for use until at the least 1956 thats six years after Steve Reeves retired . I can prove this , gh15 makes some vauge references of testosterone use from the Nazis what does that have to do with Reeves? I can post the same information .
Scientists in Nazi Germany first isolated testosterone in the 1930s by distilling 15,000 liters of urine collected from German police officers. They later synthesized it in the lab. In early animal tests, injections of testosterone restored vitality in castrated roosters.
They isolated testosterone by the 1930s in Nazi Germany , what does that have to do with use in the United States? and Steve Reeves? nothing .
Using the Nazi's research after the war , Russians were using testosterone on their athletes at the 1954 Olympics and they were cleaning house , this is how drug use in the United States got started the team Dr for the United States weightlifting team was Dr John Zeigler and the story goes he got one of the coaches for the Russian team drunk on vodka and he confessed they were using testosterone on their athletes .
Returning to the United States Ziegler who worked for Ciba Pharmaceuticals made Dianabol and started to test it on himself and soon after others , one of the first weightlifters/bodybuilders to start using anabolic steroids in the U.S. was Bill March in 1959 and the rest as they say is history.
now if he has proof that steroids and anabloics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless.
Well researched meltdown.
I accept all you say, but there is still no definitive proof that he did or didn't use the gear. I don't know why you're getting so emotionally involved with it. Is it that important? All that matters is that he had a great physique that many people would be proud to have - whether using or not.
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Well researched meltdown.
I accept all you say, but there is still no definitive proof that he did or didn't use the gear. I don't know why you're getting so emotionally involved with it. Is it that important? All that matters is that he had a great physique that many people would be proud to have - whether using or not.
Well put.
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Well researched meltdown.
I accept all you say, but there is still no definitive proof that he did or didn't use the gear. I don't know why you're getting so emotionally involved with it. Is it that important? All that matters is that he had a great physique that many people would be proud to have - whether using or not.
I'm not emotionally involved . just making my point. I the fact that Ziegler didn't produce anabolic steroids until 1956 is definitive proof that he didn't use and couple that with the fact he denied any use and would have zero reason to lie about it.
To speculate if he used anything is natural ( no pun ) to act like you have personal information is another. when you make such claims you better put up or shut up.
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I'm not emotionally involved . just making my point. I the fact that Ziegler didn't produce anabolic steroids until 1956 is definitive proof that he didn't use and couple that with the fact he denied any use and would have zero reason to lie about it.
To speculate if he used anything is natural ( no pun ) to act like you have personal information is another. when you make such claims you better put up or shut up.
STFU already ND, you don't know that he didn't anymore than GH15 knows he did.What's YOUR proof, because he said so? Wow a bodybuilder lying about his drug use, what a fvcking concept. Steeve Reeves was overrated and mytholigized to the extreme. He had a nice build but he was far from "perfect". You are taking drivel written in BBing rags from the 50's as fact. They sensationalized things back then just as much as they do now.50 year old bullshit is still bullshit.
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STFU already ND, you don't know that he didn't anymore than GH15 knows he did.What's YOUR proof, because he said so? Wow a bodybuilder lying about his drug use, what a fvcking concept. Steeve Reeves was overrated and mytholigized to the extreme. He had a nice build but he was far from "perfect". You are taking drivel written in BBing rags from the 50's as fact. They sensationalized things back then just as much as they do now.50 year old bullshit is still bullshit.
hey Groink way OT, but how long was your wait at the airport?
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hey Groink way OT, but how long was your wait at the airport?
Bout 90 mins. not that bad.
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STFU already ND, you don't know that he didn't anymore than GH15 knows he did.What's YOUR proof, because he said so? Wow a bodybuilder lying about his drug use, what a fvcking concept. Steeve Reeves was overrated and mytholigized to the extreme. He had a nice build but he was far from "perfect". You are taking drivel written in BBing rags from the 50's as fact. They sensationalized things back then just as much as they do now.50 year old bullshit is still bullshit.
No you're just as wrong as gh15 I know for a fact that steroids wern't produced and used in the United States until bare minimum 1956 ;) and I'll accept you're apology when you're man enough to give it.
Again what would he have to lie about assuming he did use? steroids when first released were NOT Illegal why lie? would it ruin his reputationor tarnish his legend ? it didn't for Bill Pearl or Arnold Schwarzenegger so why would it for him? most of the bodybuilders of the 60/70/80s all have admited their use , hell pros on this very board admit thier use. he has no need what to lie what so ever.
When you put Reeves into prospective and what little knowlege , equipment , and supplements and his build he was damn near as perfect as it gets. show me one single bodybuilder in this day and age with 18" 1/2" arms/neck/calves , show me one bodybuilder who stands 6'1" and weighed just 215lbs with a 52" chest and a 29" waist and good luck because you're going to need it. when people dismiss Reeves as nothing special all they're doing is showing their ignorance of bodybuilding history.
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so he can be more giganic as a movie star and play roles that size and muscle combo is a big part of them. the range number 215-230 is very common for "naturals". not too big and not too small just good enough for the piggy bank,,ask lacour ;)
contrary to the belief of many,, a 215lb bodybuilder is a very big boy. anything beyond that involve lots of lot of good quality. good quality hormones that is :D.
At 215 wouldn't he already be the biggest action star of his time era? and I absolutely agree 215 pounds is huge at a relatively low body fat. Even 170 can look good at a low bodyfat.
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nd,,,dont you ever wonder why no one in the know dare arguing with me? no one who actually make money out of bodybuilding dare arguing with me for a reason. i NEVER lie.
why are you trying to make steeve reeves look bad. i can EASILY do it,,i told you already i respect him and i dont want to do to him what i did to la cour. steeve reeves is already dead,,let him rest in peace and accept what i say as the law. the sooner the better.
attached are lists of links to demonstrate how common it is for a bodybuilder and fitness enthusiastic now days to get hormones. reason i post it is to demonstrate the ability of any one at any time to build their body under "NATURAL" conditions. what you see here is exactly what was going on in the 40s only then it was ALWAYS DONE in REAL LABS with REAL CHEMIST with REAL DRUGS THUS LOWER DOSES NEEDED. ***not all the links i attach represent hormones that were available during the 40s!! i simply let you see how much it improved since (new/more syntethic hormones production and the access to the internet).
http://www.tcsresearch.net/
http://www.steroidmass.com/index.html
http://www.mike-strong.com/
http://www.kariusm.com/
User/pass: grow/big
the list is ENDLESS,,,
steeve reeves if was alive today would be fitting amongst the above perfectly,,they all research and experiment,,the only diff is now it is bought on the internet then it was bought in the barn. now days,,WHEN LEGIT,, it is INDEED advanced materials,,then it was research material in its roughest form.
you all enjoy and use it wisely! and let steevie rest in peace,,im not up for bringing him down ;)
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GH15 you are an idiot for source posting on this board. A big thanks for those of us who use these guys!!
You're definetely not a pro. End of story.
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GH15 you are an idiot for source posting on this board. A big thanks for those of us who use these guys!!
You're definetely not a pro. End of story.
SAved
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GH15 you are an idiot for source posting on this board. A big thanks for those of us who use these guys!!
You're definetely not a pro. End of story.
squatz,,tell it to the IFBB my friend. i am AN EMPEROR when it comes to bodybuilding and you are warned ;)
i suggest you calm down before i reduce the profit of the above local sources by half. who do you think supply them with their experiemtal adventures?? idiot
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nd,,,dont you ever wonder why no one in the know dare arguing with me? no one who actually make money out of bodybuilding dare arguing with me for a reason. i NEVER lie.
why are you trying to make steeve reeves look bad. i can EASILY do it,,i told you already i respect him and i dont want to do to him what i did to la cour. steeve reeves is already dead,,let him rest in peace and accept what i say as the law. the sooner the better.
attached are lists of links to demonstrate how common it is for a bodybuilder and fitness enthusiastic now days to get hormones. reason i post it is to demonstrate the ability of any one at any time to build their body under "NATURAL" conditions. what you see here is exactly what was going on in the 40s only then it was ALWAYS DONE in REAL LABS with REAL CHEMIST with REAL DRUGS THUS LOWER DOSES NEEDED. ***not all the links i attach represent hormones that were available during the 40s!! i simply let you see how much it improved since (new/more syntethic hormones production and the access to the internet).
http://www.tcsresearch.net/
http://www.steroidmass.com/index.html
http://www.mike-strong.com/
http://www.kariusm.com/
User/pass: grow/big
the list is ENDLESS,,,
steeve reeves if was alive today would be fitting amongst the above perfectly,,they all research and experiment,,the only diff is now it is bought on the internet then it was bought in the barn. now days,,WHEN LEGIT,, it is INDEED advanced materials,,then it was research material in its roughest form.
you all enjoy and use it wisely! and let steevie rest in peace,,im not up for bringing him down ;)
nd,,,dont you ever wonder why no one in the know dare arguing with me? no one who actually make money out of bodybuilding dare arguing with me for a reason. i NEVER lie.
why are you trying to make steeve reeves look bad. i can EASILY do it,,i told you already i respect him and i dont want to do to him what i did to la cour. steeve reeves is already dead,,let him rest in peace and accept what i say as the law. the sooner the better.
Well I dare to argue with you. and it is you my friend who is attempting to make Steve Reeves look bad. you are directly contradicting his statement that he never heard of steroids until the mid-1960s . you claim you could " EASILY " do it again another baseless claim and I will not accept what you have to say as " law " until you provide the evidence.
attached are lists of links to demonstrate how common it is for a bodybuilder and fitness enthusiastic now days to get hormones. reason i post it is to demonstrate the ability of any one at any time to build their body under "NATURAL" conditions. what you see here is exactly what was going on in the 40s only then it was ALWAYS DONE in REAL LABS with REAL CHEMIST with REAL DRUGS THUS LOWER DOSES NEEDED. ***not all the links i attach represent hormones that were available during the 40s!! i simply let you see how much it improved since (new/more syntethic hormones production and the access to the internet).
No one is doubting that its realitively easy for anyone to get hormones now and days the links you provided do not back up your claims that
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
never the less steve reeves was indeed THE CLOSEST THING YOU WILL FIND TO NATURAL. he only experiemnted and nothing else and this is MY OPINION you can disagree.
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
You may have your hand on the pulse of todays drug scene . but that means nothing.
stop avoiding the questions .
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
These are all claims you've made I will continue to ask just exactly how you know all this information until you either give me a satisfactory answer or outright admit you're full of nonsense.
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Well I dare to argue with you. and it is you my friend who is attempting to make Steve Reeves look bad. you are directly contradicting his statement that he never heard of steroids until the mid-1960s . you claim you could " EASILY " do it again another baseless claim and I will not accept what you have to say as " law " until you provide the evidence.
No one is doubting that its realitively easy for anyone to get hormones now and days the links you provided do not back up your claims that
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
never the less steve reeves was indeed THE CLOSEST THING YOU WILL FIND TO NATURAL. he only experiemnted and nothing else and this is MY OPINION you can disagree.
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
You may have your hand on the pulse of todays drug scene . but that means nothing.
stop avoiding the questions .
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
These are all claims you've made I will continue to ask just exactly how you know all this information until you either give me a satisfactory answer or outright admit you're full of nonsense.
For God's sake please stop this. He isn't going to answer. I don't know why and you shouldn't care so much.
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squatz,,tell it to the IFBB my friend. i am AN EMPEROR when it comes to bodybuilding and you are warned ;)
i suggest you calm down before i reduce the profit of the above local sources by half. who do you think supply them with their experiemtal adventures?? idiot
I have plenty of guys that I can/have/will use that have nothing to do with you (even though I don't believe you) and I'll be sure to direct these comments to Karius and others.
The BIGGEST idiot is the one who posts on a public message board that they are the big (if not the biggest) fish in supplying steroids. Of course, we all know this is BULLSHIT anyway. I'd be suprised if you even competed locally or at all for that matter....
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For God's sake please stop this. He isn't going to answer. I don't know why and you shouldn't care so much.
Because he's full of shit and I'm calling him out and he's being exposed for what he is a jackass lair.
And at one time the sport was an healthy activity and drugs wern't part of the equasion , this was Steve Reeves time.
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I have plenty of guys that I can/have/will use that have nothing to do with you (even though I don't believe you) and I'll be sure to direct these comments to Karius and others.
The BIGGEST idiot is the one who posts on a public message board that they are the big (if not the biggest) fish in supplying steroids. Of course, we all know this is BULLSHIT anyway. I'd be suprised if you even competed locally or at all for that matter....
2 more words out of you and "karius" will have to look behind his back 24/7 you start pissing me off
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2 more words out of you and "karius" will have to look behind his back 24/7 you start pissing me off
Sure, whatever dude. Go buy a playstation or a whore or something- anything that will give you something to do instead of making up aliases and posting bullshit lies on getbig.
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squatz,,tell it to the IFBB my friend. i am AN EMPEROR when it comes to bodybuilding and you are warned ;)
i suggest you calm down before i reduce the profit of the above local sources by half. who do you think supply them with their experiemtal adventures?? idiot
If you are the EMPEROR what the hell are you doing spending your time an a message board? Shouldn't you have better things to do then to come on here and trash the legends of the sport?
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Because he's full of shit and I'm calling him out and he's being exposed for what he is a jackass lair.
And at one time the sport was an healthy activity and drugs wern't part of the equasion , this was Steve Reeves time.
I understand man, but, I mean, it is done, let it be. This thread has taken on a completely different flavour (I am Canadian :D) now don't you think?
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nd,, you notice i dont quote you any more,,it is too much crap youre writting for me to even quote it or to be honest with you read it. i suggest to you this my friend,,,simply do a thread asking who think mr reeves never experiemnted with hormones and see the answer for yourself.
i dont care about the answer nor do i care to bring steeve reeves down and i CAN do it EASILY.
if BODYBUILDING WAS NOT ALL AROUND HORMONES YOU WOULD NOT HEAR ANY COMPLAINTS WITHIN FEW SECONDS OF ME WRITING FEW REGIONAL INTERNET SOURCES ON HERE. USE YOUR BRAIN AND STOP BEING DUMB ;)
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nd,, you notice i dont quote you any more,,it is too much crap youre writting for me to even quote it or to be honest with you read it. i suggest to you this my friend,,,simply do a thread asking who think mr reeves never experiemnted with hormones and see the answer for yourself.
i dont care about the answer nor do i care to bring steeve reeves down and i CAN do it EASILY.
if BODYBUILDING WAS NOT ALL AROUND HORMONES YOU WOULD NOT HEAR ANY COMPLAINTS WITHIN FEW SECONDS OF ME WRITING FEW REGIONAL INTERNET SOURCES ON HERE. USE YOUR BRAIN AND STOP BEING DUMB ;)
Honestly your "insider's" point of view on this thread is getting old too. Threats and cryptic responses get old real quick don't you think?
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I understand man, but, I mean, it is done, let it be. This thread has taken on a completely different flavour (I am Canadian :D) now don't you think?
I have zero problem with bodybuilders who use steroids. most of the bodybuilding stars I admire are drug users so I'm not some anti-drug fanatic , but when he talks matter-of-factly that he knows its BS and I'll call hoim on it. and he's supposed to be an IFBB pro? lol
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nd,, you notice i dont quote you any more,,it is too much crap youre writting for me to even quote it or to be honest with you read it. i suggest to you this my friend,,,simply do a thread asking who think mr reeves never experiemnted with hormones and see the answer for yourself.
i dont care about the answer nor do i care to bring steeve reeves down and i CAN do it EASILY.
if BODYBUILDING WAS NOT ALL AROUND HORMONES YOU WOULD NOT HEAR ANY COMPLAINTS WITHIN FEW SECONDS OF ME WRITING FEW REGIONAL INTERNET SOURCES ON HERE. USE YOUR BRAIN AND STOP BEING DUMB ;)
You can't even follow my posts and then you have the balls to acuse me of being dumb? lol I'll simplify this for you. answer me these questions.
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
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to all the new bodybuilders in the block,,,i suggest you follow ths thread from now so you can see the real face of bodybuilding. you will see how many additional posts will be added to this thread (half of them from pro bodybuilders and top amatuers under diff names) because this thread now have meat attached to it. ofcourse at the end it will get erased so the faster you save it the better it will be for you. they might actually stop posting to try to prove me wrong but the inner self is stronger than the outer self,,in any case i dont care as long as you understand how severe the situation is when it comes to bodybuilding and hormones.
now about the remark of i can get anything from people other than you,,,who do you think leo get his "materials" from? i told you i NEVER lie. a lot of money was invested in us being able to maniplulate the market and reason i am online is because it makes me a lot more money than my pro card will ever do for me. the combo of the 2 is a killer and the reason you are big has A LOT to do with guess who,,you got that right...ME.
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No you're just as wrong as gh15 I know for a fact that steroids wern't produced and used in the United States until bare minimum 1956 ;) and I'll accept you're apology when you're man enough to give it.
Again what would he have to lie about assuming he did use? steroids when first released were NOT Illegal why lie? would it ruin his reputationor tarnish his legend ? it didn't for Bill Pearl or Arnold Schwarzenegger so why would it for him? most of the bodybuilders of the 60/70/80s all have admited their use , hell pros on this very board admit thier use. he has no need what to lie what so ever.
When you put Reeves into prospective and what little knowlege , equipment , and supplements and his build he was damn near as perfect as it gets. show me one single bodybuilder in this day and age with 18" 1/2" arms/neck/calves , show me one bodybuilder who stands 6'1" and weighed just 215lbs with a 52" chest and a 29" waist and good luck because you're going to need it. when people dismiss Reeves as nothing special all they're doing is showing their ignorance of bodybuilding history.
History of Steroid Use
Humans are a naturally competitive species. As long as we have had sports to compete in, athletes have tried all kinds of things to be the best. Athletes have used various substances and potions to improve athletic performance since the beginning of civilization. The ancient Greeks ate sesame seeds, the Australian aborigines chewed the pituri plant, Norse warriors ate hallucinogenic mushrooms, and ancient cultures around the world had similar traditions.
In the 1860s, a group of swimmers in Amsterdam were charged with taking drugs to speed up their races. For the next 80 years or so, athletes who wanted to cheat focused mostly on stimulants to speed themselves up.
In 1935, the male hormone testosterone was first synthesized. During World War II, German soldiers were reportedly given testosterone to increase their performance and aggressiveness on the battlefield.
In the 1940s testosterone began to be widely used in competitive sports, but the dangers of loading up on testosterone were not yet clear. In the 1952 Olympics, the Russian weightlifting and wrestling teams dominated those sports, at least in part due to synthetic testosterone.
Scientists all over the world worked to formulate better performance-enhancing drugs during the 1950s and beyond. Still, in the early days, there was not much awareness of the dangers such substances could pose to users.
In the 1920s and 1930s, experimentation culminated in the discovery of testosterone. In 1918, Leo L. Stanley, resident physician of San Quentin State Prison in California, transplanted testicles removed from recently executed prisoners into inmates, some of whom claimed that they recovered sexual potency. In 1920, a lack of human material led to the substitution of boar, deer, goat, and ram testes. In the 1920s, Russian–French surgeon Serge Voronoff made a fortune transplanting monkey glands into aging men. Throughout this period, researchers tested the androgenic effects of substances isolated from large quantities of animal testicles and from human urine. (Adolf Butenandt isolated milligram amounts of androsterone from 15,000 L of policemen’s urine.) Finally, Karoly G. David, Ernst Laqueur, and colleagues isolated crystalline testosterone from testicles and published the results in 1935. Within a few months, groups led by Butenandt and G. Hanisch (funded by Schering Corp. in Berlin), and Leopold Ruzicka and A. Wettstein of Ciba, developed synthetic methods of preparing testosterone. Butenandt and Ruzicka shared the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for this achievement.
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What is your current cycle gh15!!!!!!!!??
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You can't even follow my posts and then you have the balls to acuse me of being dumb? lol I'll simplify this for you. answer me these questions.
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
ND, the answers to all your questions is gh doesn't know. There's no way he could know. He's just another loud mouth internet jackass trying to make himself look cool and important because he claims to know all this insider information that us regular people don't have access too. He really isn't worth your time. He's like a little kid crying out for attention and unfortunately the message boards are a perfect place for his addiction.
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History of Steroid Use
Humans are a naturally competitive species. As long as we have had sports to compete in, athletes have tried all kinds of things to be the best. Athletes have used various substances and potions to improve athletic performance since the beginning of civilization. The ancient Greeks ate sesame seeds, the Australian aborigines chewed the pituri plant, Norse warriors ate hallucinogenic mushrooms, and ancient cultures around the world had similar traditions.
In the 1860s, a group of swimmers in Amsterdam were charged with taking drugs to speed up their races. For the next 80 years or so, athletes who wanted to cheat focused mostly on stimulants to speed themselves up.
In 1935, the male hormone testosterone was first synthesized. During World War II, German soldiers were reportedly given testosterone to increase their performance and aggressiveness on the battlefield.
In the 1940s testosterone began to be widely used in competitive sports, but the dangers of loading up on testosterone were not yet clear. In the 1952 Olympics, the Russian weightlifting and wrestling teams dominated those sports, at least in part due to synthetic testosterone.
Scientists all over the world worked to formulate better performance-enhancing drugs during the 1950s and beyond. Still, in the early days, there was not much awareness of the dangers such substances could pose to users.
In the 1920s and 1930s, experimentation culminated in the discovery of testosterone. In 1918, Leo L. Stanley, resident physician of San Quentin State Prison in California, transplanted testicles removed from recently executed prisoners into inmates, some of whom claimed that they recovered sexual potency. In 1920, a lack of human material led to the substitution of boar, deer, goat, and ram testes. In the 1920s, Russian–French surgeon Serge Voronoff made a fortune transplanting monkey glands into aging men. Throughout this period, researchers tested the androgenic effects of substances isolated from large quantities of animal testicles and from human urine. (Adolf Butenandt isolated milligram amounts of androsterone from 15,000 L of policemen’s urine.) Finally, Karoly G. David, Ernst Laqueur, and colleagues isolated crystalline testosterone from testicles and published the results in 1935. Within a few months, groups led by Butenandt and G. Hanisch (funded by Schering Corp. in Berlin), and Leopold Ruzicka and A. Wettstein of Ciba, developed synthetic methods of preparing testosterone. Butenandt and Ruzicka shared the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for this achievement.
how do you say rest my case in nd language? :D this is pretty much it other than that nothing is 100%. "it is just the ability of one to maintain both size of muscle and superb condition that equals hormonal use." gh15 aug12 2006.
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ND, the answers to all your questions is gh doesn't know. There's no way he could know. He's just another loud mouth internet jackass trying to make himself look cool and important because he claims to know all this insider information that us regular people don't have access too. He really isn't worth your time. He's like a little kid crying out for attention and unfortunately the message boards are a perfect place for his addiction.
Thank you ! someone with sense.
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to all the new bodybuilders in the block,,,i suggest you follow ths thread from now so you can see the real face of bodybuilding. you will see how many additional posts will be added to this thread (half of them from pro bodybuilders and top amatuers under diff names) because this thread now have meat attached to it. ofcourse at the end it will get erased so the faster you save it the better it will be for you. they might actually stop posting to try to prove me wrong but the inner self is stronger than the outer self,,in any case i dont care as long as you understand how severe the situation is when it comes to bodybuilding and hormones.
now about the remark of i can get anything from people other than you,,,who do you think leo get his "materials" from? i told you i NEVER lie. a lot of money was invested in us being able to maniplulate the market and reason i am online is because it makes me a lot more money than my pro card will ever do for me. the combo of the 2 is a killer and the reason you are big has A LOT to do with guess who,,you got that right...ME.
gh15,
Haven't you every heard the statement:
Smart people don't need advise and stupid people wont take it...
Seems like you are wasting you time and knowledge with some of the these naive personalities here...
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how do you say rest my case in nd language? :D this is pretty much it other than that nothing is 100%. "it is just the ability of one to maintain both size of muscle and superb condition that equals hormonal use." gh15 aug12 2006.
That has NOTHING to do with your claims .
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
Answer these questions. and again some vauge refferences don't mean anything .
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gh15,
Haven't you every heard the statement:
Smart people don't need advise and stupid people wont take it...
Seems like you are wasting you time and knowledge with some of the these naive personalities here...
Knowlege? if he had knowlege he'd answer the questions and he's done everything but. he may be knowleable about drugs in todays game , but for him to lay claim to personal information is dubious.
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History of Steroid Use
Humans are a naturally competitive species. As long as we have had sports to compete in, athletes have tried all kinds of things to be the best. Athletes have used various substances and potions to improve athletic performance since the beginning of civilization. The ancient Greeks ate sesame seeds, the Australian aborigines chewed the pituri plant, Norse warriors ate hallucinogenic mushrooms, and ancient cultures around the world had similar traditions.
In the 1860s, a group of swimmers in Amsterdam were charged with taking drugs to speed up their races. For the next 80 years or so, athletes who wanted to cheat focused mostly on stimulants to speed themselves up.
In 1935, the male hormone testosterone was first synthesized. During World War II, German soldiers were reportedly given testosterone to increase their performance and aggressiveness on the battlefield.
In the 1940s testosterone began to be widely used in competitive sports, but the dangers of loading up on testosterone were not yet clear. In the 1952 Olympics, the Russian weightlifting and wrestling teams dominated those sports, at least in part due to synthetic testosterone.
Scientists all over the world worked to formulate better performance-enhancing drugs during the 1950s and beyond. Still, in the early days, there was not much awareness of the dangers such substances could pose to users.
In the 1920s and 1930s, experimentation culminated in the discovery of testosterone. In 1918, Leo L. Stanley, resident physician of San Quentin State Prison in California, transplanted testicles removed from recently executed prisoners into inmates, some of whom claimed that they recovered sexual potency. In 1920, a lack of human material led to the substitution of boar, deer, goat, and ram testes. In the 1920s, Russian–French surgeon Serge Voronoff made a fortune transplanting monkey glands into aging men. Throughout this period, researchers tested the androgenic effects of substances isolated from large quantities of animal testicles and from human urine. (Adolf Butenandt isolated milligram amounts of androsterone from 15,000 L of policemen’s urine.) Finally, Karoly G. David, Ernst Laqueur, and colleagues isolated crystalline testosterone from testicles and published the results in 1935. Within a few months, groups led by Butenandt and G. Hanisch (funded by Schering Corp. in Berlin), and Leopold Ruzicka and A. Wettstein of Ciba, developed synthetic methods of preparing testosterone. Butenandt and Ruzicka shared the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for this achievement.
The sources you state that refere to drug use in the United States are vauge at best , here is a detailed first hand account of among the very first ever weightlifters/bodybuilders to use anabloic steroids in the United States .
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05275/581242.stm
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That has NOTHING to do with your claims .
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
Answer these questions. and again some vauge refferences don't mean anything .
the article is more proof than your "proofs" of steve reeves never experiementing with hormones. nd,, you dont understand that you sound dumb? in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc,,,i stated he EXPERIEMNTED with hormones in their rough stages of development. he, from young age adored bodybuilding and trained to be a bodybuilder,,the human nature itself + the will to become the best + the will to make a living world wide + the human brain + the article that other dude just posted,,,all of the above = ANY SINGLE NORMAL HUMAN BEING TO GET OFF THE OLYMPUS HE CLIMED ON AND UNDERSTAND THAT SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL ;) and steeve reeves is like the rest of us.
wize up nd,, you are playing a game of exact answers to exact questions. this game can not be answered with 100% accuracy and reference quotes because we did not live in the 40s. i said before it was MY OPINION a VERY EDUCATED OPINION.
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the article is more proof than your "proofs" of steve reeves never experiementing with hormones. nd,, you dont understand that you sound dumb? in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc,,,i stated he EXPERIEMNTED with hormones in their rough stages of development. he, from young age adored bodybuilding and trained to be a bodybuilder,,the human nature itself + the will to become the best + the will to make a living world wide + the human brain + the article that other dude just posted,,,all of the above = ANY SINGLE NORMAL HUMAN BEING TO GET OFF THE OLYMPUS HE CLIMED ON AND UNDERSTAND THAT SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL ;) and steeve reeves is like the rest of us.
wize up nd,, you are playing a game of exact answers to exact questions. this game can not be answered with 100% accuracy and reference quotes because we did not live in the 40s. i said before it was MY OPINION a VERY EDUCATED OPINION.
So it's your opinion that a man you never met, who it still hasn't been completely established if he even actually had access to the hormones you said he took, experimented with steroids because he was human, just like the rest of us. That's very very thin proof GH. By all accounts Reeves was a man of high integrity and his physique was entirely attainable through hard work.
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this is your opinion and you got the right to think whatever you want i can assure you that anyone that been through one little 3 week cycle of LEGIT andriol and dianabol,,, both or each,,, does not share your opinion.
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this is your opinion and you got the right to think whatever you want i can assure you that anyone that been through one little 3 week cycle of LEGIT andriol and dianabol,,, both or each,,, does not share your opinion.
so you're saying Reeves took anadrol and dianabol, which everyone knows wasn't available until the late 50s
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The sources you state that refere to drug use in the United States are vauge at best , here is a detailed first hand account of among the very first ever weightlifters/bodybuilders to use anabloic steroids in the United States .
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05275/581242.stm
That is because the subject and use of these and most drugs was very vague in the 30s, 40s, and 50s.. And your "detailed first hand account of among the very first ever weightlifters/bodybuilders to use anabolic steroids in the United States" is only recognizable because sports enhancement was becoming more known in the public environment. Just like homosexuality was in the closet for many years, and recreantion drugs were not spoken off (who would confess to going to Chinese opium dens to use opium), no one wanted to confess to experimenting with sport enhancement type drugs when BB was suppose to have the appearance of health, beauty and fitness...
You need to relax a little. Collect information from others and use it or don't use it.. But relax...
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so you're saying Reeves took anadrol and dianabol, which everyone knows wasn't available until the late 50s
NO. you put words in my mouth. i DID not say reeves took andriol and diabanol in the 40s in their final forms! ! ! ! ! ! he did took them during the 50s and 60s ofcourse but that was beyond bodybuilding aiming at his career more than his bodybuilding goals.
what i DID say was that reeves took testosterone in its rough stages in a tablet form,,he most likley took insulin too witch is a LOT MORE anabolic if your body fat is low enough and he always maintain low body fat from his skinny teen ager years till the beggining of his experiemnting thus the insulin worked on him even better for anabolic activity and for maintaining muscle mass while cutting.
so,,NO he did not take ANDRIOL and DIANABOL during the 40s as the product you are femiliar with now days. he took testosterone tablets that are a lot more natural to the body than any other bi-test product and sad for the athletes in the 40s,,,also didnt do much for constant blood levels of test.
it was a lot more for strength and endurance those days,,it was for,, as a bodybuilder,, being able to try to maintain the muscle mass through extra balistic strength achieved by those tabelts that at the end resulted by increased muscle mass or maintaining it,, as long as your nutirion was solid as in enough calories.
pay attention i do not mention any other stimulants for i am only talking about early stages of testosterone products and ofcourse good ole insulin by lilly. every thing was NOT supervized what so ever those days and was very very very EASY to get in europe and from the late 50s in usa normal every day gyms also.
wize up people
now give me my ISSA personal trainer license :D,,,oh wait i already have my pro card
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the article is more proof than your "proofs" of steve reeves never experiementing with hormones. nd,, you dont understand that you sound dumb? in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc,,,i stated he EXPERIEMNTED with hormones in their rough stages of development. he, from young age adored bodybuilding and trained to be a bodybuilder,,the human nature itself + the will to become the best + the will to make a living world wide + the human brain + the article that other dude just posted,,,all of the above = ANY SINGLE NORMAL HUMAN BEING TO GET OFF THE OLYMPUS HE CLIMED ON AND UNDERSTAND THAT SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL ;) and steeve reeves is like the rest of us.
wize up nd,, you are playing a game of exact answers to exact questions. this game can not be answered with 100% accuracy and reference quotes because we did not live in the 40s. i said before it was MY OPINION a VERY EDUCATED OPINION.
You claimed " in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration"
these are you quotes throughout this thread.
1) you claimed to know he didn't have consistancy in his drug use and further elaborated he didn't take much nothing to write home about .
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
2) you elaborated on what he took and the fact he didn't have enough to make significant gains
said reeves WAS natural. he experiemnted with testosterone and pre testosterone products (tablets) exactly like the nazi army experiemnted with them in the 30s and 40s. he didnt have enough product and he couldnt make any significant gains with them beside retaining some of the muscle while dieting hard. it was NOT to significant levels and was not a major factor.
3) You once again claim as a fact you know he experimented .
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
never the less steve reeves was indeed THE CLOSEST THING YOU WILL FIND TO NATURAL. he only experiemnted and nothing else and this is MY OPINION you can disagree.
4) here you claim to know for a fact when he started ( early 1940s ) which would make him 14 in 1940 , 15 in 1941 and 16 in 1942 etc which could all be considered the ' early 40s ' again you claim to know that he experimented whever he could get his hands on some.
steeve reeves did experiment with testosteone and other products during the 40s and 50s. he DID NOT finish his career natural. he INDEED was natural at the beggining simply because the level of testosteone plasma he achieved hurt him more than helped him during the early 40s. he simply experiemtned once in a while whenever he got some in his hands.
These are you quotes , stop backpeddling and acting like NOW you never claimed to know what he was taking or their duration because you simply did . and I thought you ' never lie ' ? ;) you already tried to say these were mearly your " OPINION " and now by deny ever saying them . you're being exposed for the liar you are.
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NO. you put words in my mouth. i DID not say reeves took andriol and diabanol in the 40s in their final forms! ! ! ! ! ! he did took them during the 50s and 60s ofcourse but that was beyond bodybuilding aiming at his career more than his bodybuilding goals.
what i DID say was that reeves took testosterone in its rough stages in a tablet form,,he most likley took insulin too witch is a LOT MORE anabolic if your body fat is low enough and he always maintain low body fat from his skinny teen ager years till the beggining of his experiemnting thus the insulin worked on him even better for anabolic activity and for maintaining muscle mass while cutting.
so,,NO he did not take ANDRIOL and DIANABOL during the 40s as the product you are femiliar with now days. he took testosterone tablets that are a lot more natural to the body than any other bi-test product and sad for the athletes in the 40s,,,also didnt do much for constant blood levels of test.
it was a lot more for strength and endurance those days,,it was for,, as a bodybuilder,, being able to try to maintain the muscle mass through extra balistic strength achieved by those tabelts that at the end resulted by increased muscle mass or maintaining it,, as long as your nutirion was solid as in enough calories.
pay attention i do not mention any other stimulants for i am only talking about early stages of testosterone products and ofcourse good ole insulin by lilly. every thing was NOT supervized what so ever those days and was very very very EASY to get in europe and from the late 50s in usa normal every day gyms also.
wize up people
now give me my ISSA personal trainer license :D,,,oh wait i already have my pro card
So now we've added insulin to the party. GH, you have no proof whatsoever of your claims. NONE. You are nothing but a jealous loud mouth. You see a man with a physique you could never naturally attain and to make yourself feel better you insist he had to take steroids to look like that. That is pathetic in my book. I have no idea if Reeves ever took steroids and neither do you. Let the man rest in peace and stick to what you do best, talking about yourself...
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i need to charge you on my advice,,those quotes you put there are the closet thing you will ever get to know the truth. it shows exactly what i claim as my opinion. i never back out of anything,, i just gave you a lesson and got your hero to a human scale level.
the fact you learned something new doesnt mean you got to feel bad,,i charge a lot more than internet time for my information and advice and you got them for free my friend ;)
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So now we've added insulin to the party. GH, you have no proof whatsoever of your claims. NONE. You are nothing but a jealous loud mouth. You see a man with a physique you could never naturally attain and to make yourself feel better you insist he had to take steroids to look like that. That is pathetic in my book. I have no idea if Reeves ever took steroids and neither do you. Let the man rest in peace and stick to what you do best, talking about yourself...
again you need to feel lucky i am on this board,,the few times i offered to leave i got people begging me not to,, i am here for ONLY the truth. insuling was never added to the picture it was always there in my posts and in the bodybuilding world from the 30s and on in diff forms. (lilly produced it in the early 20!) insulin is more anabolic than any other hormone if you poses low body fat.
i said many times let reeves rest in peace while all you can bring to the convo is curses twards me. i also like reeves and that is why i talk about him with respect. any normal human can read my posts and say i know very very well where i come from and what im doing.
no need to argue with me ;)
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in about 5 min poor mike arvilla will be blamed for being me because he got issa license and bunch of kids will stalk him :D. leave it be i am the reason you can be big and muscular and stil compete with the best on an IFBB stage and thats only thing you gotta know.
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i need to charge you on my advice,,those quotes you put there are the closet thing you will ever get to know the truth. it shows exactly what i claim as my opinion. i never back out of anything,, i just gave you a lesson and got your hero to a human scale level.
the fact you learned something new doesnt mean you got to feel bad,,i charge a lot more than internet time for my information and advice and you got them for free my friend ;)
Now you've been caught in another lie , you're now claiming to have said those quotes yet in the previous post you outright deny them .
in all my posts i never stated how much he took or its duration etc
Which is it? and again you are specficially backing out of answering the questions you claim to know.
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
Don't backpeddle and say this is mearly your " OPINION " this is just a tad more than an opinion , this indicates personal firsthand information . answer the questions.
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again you need to feel lucky i am on this board,,the few times i offered to leave i got people begging me not to,, i am here for ONLY the truth. insuling was never added to the picture it was always there in my posts and in the bodybuilding world from the 30s and on in diff forms. (lilly produced it in the early 20!) insulin is more anabolic than any other hormone if you poses low body fat.
i said many times let reeves rest in peace while all you can bring to the convo is curses twards me. i also like reeves and that is why i talk about him with respect. any normal human can read my posts and say i know very very well where i come from and what im doing.
no need to argue with me ;)
Respect a man by saying he used insulin, testosterone, andrial, dianabol, when he always claimed to be drug free. That's how you show respect? and your TRUTH only exists in your own eyes. And why do you constantly go back and forth between saying something it the truth and then two sentences later saying it is your opinion?
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again you need to feel lucky i am on this board,,the few times i offered to leave i got people begging me not to,, i am here for ONLY the truth. insuling was never added to the picture it was always there in my posts and in the bodybuilding world from the 30s and on in diff forms. (lilly produced it in the early 20!) insulin is more anabolic than any other hormone if you poses low body fat.
i said many times let reeves rest in peace while all you can bring to the convo is curses twards me. i also like reeves and that is why i talk about him with respect. any normal human can read my posts and say i know very very well where i come from and what im doing.
no need to argue with me ;)
You claim to like Reeves and talk about him with respect yet you're directly contradicting his claim he was drug free , thats disrespectful period.
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And you're being exposed for the douche you are.
And you've been exposed as a boot-licking groupie ;)
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Why do you specify "if you posess low body fat"? I have high fat (20%+) and it's the fucken most awesome things I have ever taken in my entire friggen life. holy shit. I've lost a couple points of bf using it even...it's completely opposite what everyone says about "watch out or you'll get fat".
i didnt say it wont work if you have high bodyfat%,, what i said was that it will work BETTER if you got low bodyfat%. the reason ronnie got to be ronnie is not because he started insulin at 20% bf% but because he started it at 6% bodyfat. the reason you see bodybuilder developed to the level you see from year to year,,especially at the beggining stages of their prospective careers,, is because they had the courage to compete in lower level competitions at the beggining and then when they were 6% post competition they went on insulin and gh and other muscle building hormones and that was their secret to adding pure qualitative and quantitative size to their frame.
low body fat is the KEY for better gains (8-13% for the ave person). it dont mean you cant gain with higher bodyfat,,but 6-8% will gain extra 10-20lb on a cycle comparing to 25% bf powerlifter.
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i didnt say it wont work if you have high bodyfat%,, what i said was that it will work BETTER if you got low bodyfat%. the reason ronnie got to be ronnie is not because he started insulin at 20% bf% but because he started it at 6% bodyfat. the reason you see bodybuilder developed to the level you see from year to year,,especially at the beggining stages of their prospective careers,, is because they had the courage to compete in lower level competitions at the beggining and then when they were 6% post competition they went on insulin and gh and other muscle building hormones and that was their secret to adding pure qualitative and quantitative size to their frame.
low body fat is the KEY for better gains (8-13% for the ave person). it dont mean you cant gain with higher bodyfat,,but 6-8% will gain extra 10-20lb on a cycle comparing to 25% bf powerlifter.
insulin is a transporter, what would body fat % have to do with it's effectiveness.
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insulin is a transporter, what would body fat % have to do with it's effectiveness.
insulin will work better when your liver holds less fat. the way we develop monstrous physiqe,, the few of us who have it,, is by cleaning the liver of fat and competing at very low body fat atleast once or twice a year. low body fat will make any hormone work better on your physiqe. this is one of the biggest secrets you will hear and i need to charge you for that ;) ,,,"liver fat storage" is the key reason for gains that stopped as a result of steroid use. the way to keep your liver low on fat storage is by keeping yourself on low to low double digit bodyfat at almost any moment of your bodybuilding career,,,or simply go off hormones and clean yourself completely for a while. (a while is 6 months not 2 months)
inositol and choline powders can help you on that one if you are real natural bodybuilder (which is very hard to find now days) and maintain higher bf% as in 20%
insulin shuttles nutients to the muscle is a basic activity of the product but like everything else it is a chain reaction where if you dont have the whole chain connected,,you will see nothing in return.
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insulin will work better when your liver holds less fat. the way we develop monstrous physiqe,, the few of us who have it,, is by cleaning the liver of fat and competing at very low body fat atleast once or twice a year. low body fat will make any hormone work better on your physiqe. this is one of the biggest secrets you will hear and i need to charge you for that ;) ,,,"liver fat storage" is the key reason for gains that stopped as a result of steroid use. the way to keep your liver low on fat storage is by keeping yourself on low to low double digit bodyfat at almost any moment of your bodybuilding career,,,or simply go off hormones and clean yourself completely for a while. (a while is 6 months not 2 months)
inositol and choline powders can help you on that one if you are real natural bodybuilder (which is very hard to find now days) and maintain higher bf% as in 20%
insulin shuttles nutients to the muscle is a basic activity of the product but like everything else it is a chain reaction where if you dont have the whole chain connected,,you will see nothing in return.
I have never heard of the liver storing fat, never. how does insulin even work with the liver other than dipping into it for glucose stores as a last resort . I've never heard of the human body using the liver as a storage point for fat.
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You claim to like Reeves and talk about him with respect yet you're directly contradicting his claim he was drug free , thats disrespectful period.
Hello..... Many BBs claimed they were drug free, and for many years, and many still do.. gh15 is giving his opinion based on whatever information he has collected and or believes based on his experiences. Kind of like you expressing your opinion about gh15…
“Because he's full of shit and I'm calling him out and he's being exposed for what he is a jackass lair.”
I think that is your opinion as many would disagree with you….
Or your opinion about garraeth being “a boot-licking groupie”. Another opinion of yours…..
Bye the way, you stated…..
“if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless”…
This has already been proven..
So again, relax….
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have you ever seen a fat guy growing muscles out of the intake of insulin?
have you ever seen insulin NONE RESPONDERS that hold low% bf
i havent
* i am not talking about diabetic condition that is medicated with insulin.
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have you ever seen a fat guy growing muscles out of the intake of insulin?
have you ever seen insulin NONE RESPONDERS that hold low% bf
i havent
people get fat because they store fat in fat cells, not because they store fat in their liver
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lordy lordy lordy lord:D jack tripper 1976
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people get fat because they store fat in fat cells, not because they store fat in their liver
I don't post much at all. But I have to chime in here to dispell some of the BS some of your are spewing. GH15 knows what he is talking about. I don't know if he is a pro, he certainly talks like one. I am a MD and I will try to explain how fat cells work and how they are stored and what effect insulin has on the body and fat cells are concerned. But GH15 is correct here. Let me explain:
Fat, or adipose tissue, is found in several places in your body. Generally, fat is found underneath your skin (subcutaneous fat). There's also some on top of each of your kidneys. Other locations depend upon whether you are a man or woman:
* An adult man tends to carry body fat in his chest, abdomen and buttocks, producing an "apple" shape.
* An adult woman tends to carry fat in her breasts, hips, waist and buttocks, creating a "pear" shape.
The difference in fat location comes from the sex hormones estrogen and testosterone.Fat tissue is made up of fat cells. Fat cells are a unique type of cell. You can think of a fat cell as a tiny plastic bag that holds a drop of fat:
* White fat cells are large cells that have very little cytoplasm, only 15 percent cell volume, a small nucleus and one large fat droplet that makes up 85 percent of cell volume.
* brown fat cells are somewhat smaller, are loaded with mitochondria and are composed of several smaller fat droplets. The mitochondria are able to generate heat.
Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!
In addition to fat tissue, some fat is stored in the liver, and an even smaller amount in muscle.
When you eat food that contains fat, mostly triglycerides, it goes through your stomach and intestines. In the intestines, the following happens:
1.Large fat droplets get mixed with bile salts from the gall bladder in a process called emulsification. The mixture breaks up the large droplets into several smaller droplets called micelles, increasing the fat's surface area.
2. The pancreas secretes enzymes called lipases that attack the surface of each micelle and break the fats down into their parts, glycerol and fatty acids.
3. These parts get absorbed into the cells lining the intestine.
4. In the intestinal cell, the parts are reassembled into packages of fat molecules (triglycerides) with a protein coating called chylomicrons. The protein coating makes the fat dissolve more easily in water.
5. The chylomicrons are released into the lymphatic system -- they do not go directly into the bloodstream because they are too big to pass through the wall of the capillary.
6. The lymphatic system eventually merges with the veins, at which point the chylomicrons pass into the bloodstream.
You might be wondering why fat molecules get broken down into glycerol and fatty acids if they're just going to be rebuilt. This is because fat molecules are too big to easily cross cell membranes. So when passing from the intestine through the intestinal cells into the lymph, or when crossing any cell barrier, the fats must be broken down. But, when fats are being transported in the lymph or blood, it is better to have a few, large fat molecules than many smaller fatty acids, because the larger fats do not "attract" as many excess water molecules by osmosis as many smaller molecules would.
Chylomicrons do not last long in the bloodstream -- only about eight minutes -- because enzymes called lipoprotein lipases break the fats into fatty acids. Lipoprotein lipases are found in the walls of blood vessels in fat tissue, muscle tissue and heart muscle. The activity of lipoprotein lipases depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the lipases are highly active; if insulin is low, the lipases are inactive.
The fatty acids are then absorbed from the blood into fat cells, muscle cells and liver cells. In these cells, under stimulation by insulin, fatty acids are made into fat molecules and stored as fat droplets.
It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store.
:It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger.:
When you are not eating, your body is not absorbing food. If your body is not absorbing food, there is little insulin in the blood. However, your body is always using energy; and if you're not absorbing food, this energy must come from internal stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Under these conditions, various organs in your body secrete hormones:
* pancreas - glucagon
* pituitary gland - growth hormone
* pituitary gland - ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone)
* adrenal gland - epinephrine (adrenaline)
* thyroid gland - thyroid hormone
These hormones act on cells of the liver, muscle and fat tissue, and have the opposite effects of insulin.
When you are not eating, or you are exercising, your body must draw on its internal energy stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Your body's prime source of energy is glucose. In fact, some cells in your body, such as brain cells, can get energy only from glucose.
The first line of defense in maintaining energy is to break down carbohydrates, or glycogen, into simple glucose molecules -- this process is called glycogenolysis. Next, your body breaks down fats into glycerol and fatty acids in the process of lipolysis. The fatty acids can then be broken down directly to get energy, or can be used to make glucose through a multi-step process called gluconeogenesis. In gluconeogenesis, amino acids can also be used to make glucose.
In the fat cell, other types of lipases work to break down fats into fatty acids and glycerol. These lipases are activated by various hormones, such as glucagon, epinephrine and growth hormone. The resulting glycerol and fatty acids are released into the blood, and travel to the liver through the bloodstream. Once in the liver, the glycerol and fatty acids can be either further broken down or used to make glucose.
Insulin:
When you eat a candy bar or a meal, the presence of glucose, amino acids or fatty acids in the intestine stimulates the pancreas to secrete a hormone called insulin. Insulin acts on many cells in your body, especially those in the liver, muscle and fat tissue. Insulin tells the cells to do the following:
* Absorb glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
* Stop breaking down:
o glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
o glycogen into glucose
o fats into fatty acids and glycerol
o proteins into amino acids
* Start building:
o glycogen from glucose
o fats (triglycerides) from glycerol and fatty acids
o proteins from amino acids
Now stop spewing BS like little school girls. GH15 shared his opinion. I don't know about steve reeves and his insulin use, I didn't think anyone used insulin that far back then other than medical use but I could be wrong and I don't really care either way. But Gh15 is right on most counts when regarding insulin and it's use.
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I don't post much at all. But I have to chime in here to dispell some of the BS some of your are spewing. GH15 knows what he is talking about. I don't know if he is a pro, he certainly talks like one. I am a MD and I will try to explain how fat cells work and how they are stored and what effect insulin has on the body and fat cells are concerned. But GH15 is correct here. Let me explain:
Fat, or adipose tissue, is found in several places in your body. Generally, fat is found underneath your skin (subcutaneous fat). There's also some on top of each of your kidneys. Other locations depend upon whether you are a man or woman:
* An adult man tends to carry body fat in his chest, abdomen and buttocks, producing an "apple" shape.
* An adult woman tends to carry fat in her breasts, hips, waist and buttocks, creating a "pear" shape.
The difference in fat location comes from the sex hormones estrogen and testosterone.Fat tissue is made up of fat cells. Fat cells are a unique type of cell. You can think of a fat cell as a tiny plastic bag that holds a drop of fat:
* White fat cells are large cells that have very little cytoplasm, only 15 percent cell volume, a small nucleus and one large fat droplet that makes up 85 percent of cell volume.
* brown fat cells are somewhat smaller, are loaded with mitochondria and are composed of several smaller fat droplets. The mitochondria are able to generate heat.
Fat cells are formed in the developing fetus during the third trimester of pregnancy, and later at the onset of puberty, when the sex hormones "kick in." It is during puberty that the differences in fat distribution between men and women begin to take form. One amazing fact is that fat cells do not multiply after puberty -- as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same. Each fat cell simply gets bigger!
In addition to fat tissue, some fat is stored in the liver, and an even smaller amount in muscle.
When you eat food that contains fat, mostly triglycerides, it goes through your stomach and intestines. In the intestines, the following happens:
1.Large fat droplets get mixed with bile salts from the gall bladder in a process called emulsification. The mixture breaks up the large droplets into several smaller droplets called micelles, increasing the fat's surface area.
2. The pancreas secretes enzymes called lipases that attack the surface of each micelle and break the fats down into their parts, glycerol and fatty acids.
3. These parts get absorbed into the cells lining the intestine.
4. In the intestinal cell, the parts are reassembled into packages of fat molecules (triglycerides) with a protein coating called chylomicrons. The protein coating makes the fat dissolve more easily in water.
5. The chylomicrons are released into the lymphatic system -- they do not go directly into the bloodstream because they are too big to pass through the wall of the capillary.
6. The lymphatic system eventually merges with the veins, at which point the chylomicrons pass into the bloodstream.
You might be wondering why fat molecules get broken down into glycerol and fatty acids if they're just going to be rebuilt. This is because fat molecules are too big to easily cross cell membranes. So when passing from the intestine through the intestinal cells into the lymph, or when crossing any cell barrier, the fats must be broken down. But, when fats are being transported in the lymph or blood, it is better to have a few, large fat molecules than many smaller fatty acids, because the larger fats do not "attract" as many excess water molecules by osmosis as many smaller molecules would.
Chylomicrons do not last long in the bloodstream -- only about eight minutes -- because enzymes called lipoprotein lipases break the fats into fatty acids. Lipoprotein lipases are found in the walls of blood vessels in fat tissue, muscle tissue and heart muscle. The activity of lipoprotein lipases depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the lipases are highly active; if insulin is low, the lipases are inactive.
The fatty acids are then absorbed from the blood into fat cells, muscle cells and liver cells. In these cells, under stimulation by insulin, fatty acids are made into fat molecules and stored as fat droplets.
It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store.
:It is important to note that as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same; each fat cell simply gets bigger.:
When you are not eating, your body is not absorbing food. If your body is not absorbing food, there is little insulin in the blood. However, your body is always using energy; and if you're not absorbing food, this energy must come from internal stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Under these conditions, various organs in your body secrete hormones:
* pancreas - glucagon
* pituitary gland - growth hormone
* pituitary gland - ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone)
* adrenal gland - epinephrine (adrenaline)
* thyroid gland - thyroid hormone
These hormones act on cells of the liver, muscle and fat tissue, and have the opposite effects of insulin.
When you are not eating, or you are exercising, your body must draw on its internal energy stores of complex carbohydrates, fats and proteins. Your body's prime source of energy is glucose. In fact, some cells in your body, such as brain cells, can get energy only from glucose.
The first line of defense in maintaining energy is to break down carbohydrates, or glycogen, into simple glucose molecules -- this process is called glycogenolysis. Next, your body breaks down fats into glycerol and fatty acids in the process of lipolysis. The fatty acids can then be broken down directly to get energy, or can be used to make glucose through a multi-step process called gluconeogenesis. In gluconeogenesis, amino acids can also be used to make glucose.
In the fat cell, other types of lipases work to break down fats into fatty acids and glycerol. These lipases are activated by various hormones, such as glucagon, epinephrine and growth hormone. The resulting glycerol and fatty acids are released into the blood, and travel to the liver through the bloodstream. Once in the liver, the glycerol and fatty acids can be either further broken down or used to make glucose.
Insulin:
When you eat a candy bar or a meal, the presence of glucose, amino acids or fatty acids in the intestine stimulates the pancreas to secrete a hormone called insulin. Insulin acts on many cells in your body, especially those in the liver, muscle and fat tissue. Insulin tells the cells to do the following:
* Absorb glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
* Stop breaking down:
o glucose, fatty acids and amino acids
o glycogen into glucose
o fats into fatty acids and glycerol
o proteins into amino acids
* Start building:
o glycogen from glucose
o fats (triglycerides) from glycerol and fatty acids
o proteins from amino acids
Now stop spewing BS like little school girls. GH15 shared his opinion. I don't know about steve reeves and his insulin use, I didn't think anyone used insulin that far back then other than medical use but I could be wrong and I don't really care either way. But Gh15 is right on most counts when regarding insulin and it's use.
Very good post.
I know GH15 knows his drugs. But he is wrong regarding Steve Reeves.
He is right about Insulin and all of the other drugs and knows his shit chemically.
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Very good post.
I know GH15 knows his drugs. But he is wrong regarding Steve Reeves.
He is right about Insulin and all of the other drugs and knows his shit chemically.
I agree TA. The use of insulin back in Steve Reeves time I am very skeptical about. I thought the use of Insulin was much more current than that. The use of AS back in his time was rare, let alone insulin use. Like I said I could be wrong since I am not a pro and he may be privey to info I am not. I highly doubt it though. I agree he does know his drugs though, (he would put some residents to shame that I know, no kidding.). Sad but true.
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I'm not a doctor, but I'm 100% sure the liver stores fat. I have a good friend who just went in to get her stomach "stapled", and we talked about this very thing. She had to go on a special diet for 3 weeks before specifically to reduce her liver fatty levels. Had she not, her liver would have been too big for the doctor to effectively go in and perform the operation.
You are correct. It does. Check my above post.
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I agree TA. The use of insulin back in Steve Reeves time I am very skeptical about. I thought the use of Insulin was much more current than that. The use of AS back in his time was rare, let alone insulin use. Like I said I could be wrong since I am not a pro and he may be privey to info I am not. I highly doubt it though. I agree he does know his drugs though, (he would put some residents to shame that I know, no kidding.). Sad but true.
Is there any way to measure glycogen levels in the liver?
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And Muscles.
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Is there any way to measure glycogen levels in the liver?
Yes TA, a common test is usually a LFT( or Liver Function Test). Now I am not a lab chemist and I don't want to bullshit you and say I know every method there is to measure a LFT, but I can say the most common that I know of is glucose oxidase assay serum insulin concentration by an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) kit. I usually don't know what method this or any other hospital uses is why I don't like to speculate on such issues I just order the nurse to call the lab and order a LFT.
A more common test is a "glucose tolerance test" used to determine a patient's ability to secrete insulin and maintain normal blood glucose levels after a glucose load. They then measure their blood sugar level 10-14 hours following their last meal, drink a glucose mixture containing 75 grams of glucose and determine blood glucose levels after 30 and 120 minutes. The conclusions to such a test should be:
* Overnight fasting and light work do not normally reduce blood sugar levels below normal levels. This should be readily apparent.
* Consumption of a large sugar load leads to increases in blood glucose, but these are kept below those that lead to appearance of glucose in urine.
* Normal levels are again reached within 2 hours after ingestion of a glucose load.
* Blood sugar is quite stable under most physiological conditions in healthy people regardless of their activity level. The only normal exception is the increase seen after meals.
* There must be powerful and sensitive mechanisms to control and stabilize blood sugar levels. This is absolutely essential for the brain's metabolism as it cannot take up other nutrients from the blood stream. There is, however, the exception of ketone bodies. At best these account for about 50% of the brain's energy supply.
The first line of defense against a fall in blood glucose is the liver's glycogen reserve. This polysaccharide can be rapidly split into glucose units which are then transported to the blood. Indeed,this is the only major function of liver glycogen. It is not utilized by the liver to support its own requirements for energy.
More importantly we should be looking at how glucose and the liver effects our bodybuilding efforts and when to not and when to increase such glycogen levels. Liver glycogen levels fall dramatically during the night. We wake up with little or no glycogen reserves. The day should begin with a breakfast that includes carbohydrates. The glucose from these replaces the glycogen that is used while we sleep. Liver glycogen falls thereafter, supporting blood glucose levels during the morning's activities. A new increase in hepatic glycogen follows lunch, and a major climb is seen after a "good dinner" and an evening snack. Then comes the long dark night and glycogen levels fall once more to rather low levels.
What if you do not "listen to Mom" and skip breakfast? Well, your blood glucose will probably be just as stable as after a good meal, but the mechanism for this will be quite different. Instead of a hormone balance dominated by insulin and synthetic processes, skipping breakfast forces the body to call forward the stress hormones glucagon, adrenaline and growth hormone. These rearrange metabolism such that lactate and amino acids are converted by the liver to glucose, so-called gluconeogenesis. We see that gluconeogenesis is quite active after about 10-12 hours after the last meal. This may be a useful solution to keep blood sugar stable, but the stress hormone response does not lead to an ideal setting for our bodies when on a strict diet where bodybuilding is concerned or to perform contemplative work that we must do on a day to day basis.
Gluconeogenesis can provide enough glucose for moderate energy utilization for some weeks, using amino acids derived from muscles as substrate. But this for a bodybuilder would be less than ideal.
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ncmslippin I see you posted a whopping 6 times...mind posting some more? Can you give any credence to the comment Chick made about getting all his gear/drugs prescribed to him by a doctor (in the states presumably since he lives here)?
I usually post on the a few AS boards to help out the guys there since most don't have adequate medical care and don't have access to a medical doctor. My time is very short( I work at a major trauma center ER) and I need to post where I would be most effective, and that is AS boards. I post under a different name other than this one but I will try to post more on here. It is 3AM here and I am just now taking my break(lunch).
As far as Chick getting all of his gear I don't really want to speculate. Perhaps he knows his Physician very well personally(family member, friend, etc.) I highly doubt that he gets all of his AS and ancillaries off of his physician since a Physician would not likely prescribe the needed drugs for a cycle for him, unless like I said it is a friend or a family member. But you have to also remember this, most of the drugs that are prescribed are not in a Pro BB arsenal. Such a test Prop, no HRT specialist would prescribe this unless necessary, since Test Cyp or Enan is the preferred Test of choice and it has a half life of about 14 days. Usually one shot weekly or bi weekly. Now there is no human grade Tren or Equipoise that a HRT would prescribe , I don't even think that human grade is made and I am sure any self respecting HRT specialist would not prescribe it. D'bol, forget it. Anavar yes, but how many Pro BB use this, none. Primo, yes. Nandrolone(Deca) quite often. Nolvadex not often but I have seen it prescribed, as well a clomid. You have to remember that a HRT specilist prescribes AS or Test or one of it's derivitives as Hormone replacement therapy, as such they should only prescribe what you are missing and your body is not producing naturally, hence the title Hormone Replacement Therapy.
I highly doubt he is getting all of his AS as prescribed by a doctor unless is is using only Test and Deca(nandrolone) and the few I mentioned above as well as some ancellaries. GH is a whole other story all together. Yes this can be prescribed and often is. I think he has a few prescribtions for test and GH as well as some ancellaries, this is certainly possible. Everything I doubt it.
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Thanks for answering.
Kinda what I thought:
--can get limited variety in limited quantities to replace what you're naturally lacking.
--Full bber spectrum of substances, no.
--Full bber quantity, no.
No problem.
No it's back to work I go. ;D
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Yup it's total bullshit that Pro's get all their drugs legally. And what they get, a little test, deca, GH, is not strictly legal either. It may offer some protection if busted with the drugs in possession but we've seen plently of "HRT" Docs and clinics busted due to catering to athletes. Prescribing hormones for athletic purposes is illegal. Period. Legit HRT is about replacing normal levels of testosterone, not about putting levels into supraphysiological range.
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Hello..... Many BBs claimed they were drug free, and for many years, and many still do.. gh15 is giving his opinion based on whatever information he has collected and or believes based on his experiences. Kind of like you expressing your opinion about gh15…
“Because he's full of shit and I'm calling him out and he's being exposed for what he is a jackass lair.”
I think that is your opinion as many would disagree with you….
Or your opinion about garraeth being “a boot-licking groupie”. Another opinion of yours…..
Bye the way, you stated…..
“if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless”…
This has already been proven..
So again, relax….
Hello..... Many BBs claimed they were drug free, and for many years, and many still do.. gh15 is giving his opinion based on whatever information he has collected and or believes based on his experiences. Kind of like you expressing your opinion about gh15…
Again many bodybuilders are open about thier use as well. now the ones who have to lie about their use are usually doing while they're currectly using . Steve Reeves retired in 1950 and use some logic & common sense . he would have absolutely no reason to lie what so ever. he was retired and lets entertain that steroids were available to him back then they wouldn't have been illegal so what would his motivation for lying 50 years after the fact be? simple none.
I think that is your opinion as many would disagree with you….
I don't care if many would disagree with , I stand by my statement. he may be extremly knowlegeble about the current drug scene but to speculate , on Reeves' drug use as far as , type , duration , and lenght isn't an opinion ...its fantasy.
Or your opinion about garraeth being “a boot-licking groupie”. Another opinion of yours…..
That wasn't my opinion mearly a stoop down to his level retort.
Bye the way, you stated…..
“if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use before 1956 he should provide it because as of right now his ' opinion ' is worthless”…
This has already been proven..
So again, relax….
I should have further elaborated on that statement. if he has proof that steroids and anabolics were in use in the United States before 1956 he should provided it. because as of right now his ' opinion ' on the matter of Steve Reeves and steroid use is worthless.
and he has NOT proven anything he keeps avoiding the questions of how he came to his opinion of what Reeves took , how long he took it , what was available and what wasn't couple that with the fact now he's claims he probably used insulin lol its pure nonsense !
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how about making a thread and ask the members of getbig if they think mr reeves was 100% natural and never experiemnted with hormones. i sugest you do it and see your big dissapointment to whos opinion they respect more ;) try it my friend (make sure you make lots of extra names and also bring adonis to make extra names you will need it :D)
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how about making a thread and ask the members of getbig if they think mr reeves was 100% natural and never experiemnted with hormones. i sugest you do it and see your bigi dissapointed to whos opinion they respect more ;) try it my friend (make sure you make lots of extra names and also bring adonis to make extra names you will need it :D)
Again who cares what the majority would think? 50 million believe the same lie its still a lie. no one is doubting your knowlege about the current scene , I'm doubting your dubious claims of personal information about his experimentation.
You made very specific claims I'm asking you how you know these matter of factly. you're making very huge leaps by now saying he may have used insulin! and you've yet to answer my original questions. please answer my original questions.
How do you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroid?
How do you know the consistancy of his alleged use?
How do you know how much product he had avialable?
How do you know he did not finish his career natural?
How do you know the duration his alleged use?
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Calling oneself an Emperor and the Be-All-End-All of all knowledge regarding every single aspect of bodybuilding, including the bodybuilders of the past themselves, along with vague threats towards other members to start looking over their shoulders is the most pathetic display of ego masturbating I have ever seen.
I think the flash in the pan just flashed out.
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Calling oneself an Emperor and the Be-All-End-All of all knowledge regarding every single aspect of bodybuilding, including the bodybuilders of the past themselves, along with vague threats towards other members to start looking over their shoulders is the most pathetic display of ego masturbating I have ever seen.
I think the flash in the pan just flashed out.
What a great post !!
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MAY have used insulin?? try "experiemented with insulin" with out the may infront of it. i always claimed he experiemnted with insulin and testosterone.
the answer i will give you for your questions will never satisfy you so why bother? you cant give me one proof to your claims that he never done it.
see the moment you provide me a "positive proof",,that make me look like an idiot,, i will provide you the best proofs any one possibly can online becuse as you notice i have short temper and i dont like to be proved an idiot ;)
so here it is i give you a mission,,,go find a proof,,,some kind of drug test,,,or something to that level at that era (then you didnt know how to cheat the system so i will exept something like that) and i will give you solid proofs that will shock your world.
the point is neither you nor i can give 100% proofs. this is why it is called OPINION,,,but since i make a living out of "my opinions" id take them very seriously if i was you or any one else to that matter.
again you bring a SOLID proof and i open a PANDORA BOX. deal?
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Calling oneself an Emperor and the Be-All-End-All of all knowledge regarding every single aspect of bodybuilding, including the bodybuilders of the past themselves, along with vague threats towards other members to start looking over their shoulders is the most pathetic display of ego masturbating I have ever seen.
I think the flash in the pan just flashed out.
the threat was for a specific drug dealer. those are no regular guys,,they earn in a single day what you make in a whole month. in rome act like a romanian my friend :D
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MAY have used insulin?? try "experiemented with insulin" with out the may infront of it. i always claimed he experiemnted with insulin and testosterone.
the answer i will give you for your questions will never satisfy you so why bother? you cant give me one proof to your claims that he never done it.
see the moment you provide me a "positive proof",,that make me look like an idiot,, i will provide you the best proofs any one possibly can online becuse as you notice i have short temper and i dont like to be proved an idiot ;)
so here it is i give you a mission,,,go find a proof,,,some kind of drug test,,,or something to that level at that era (then you didnt know how to cheat the system so i will exept something like that) and i will give you solid proofs that will shock your world.
the point is neither you nor i can give 100% proofs. this is why it is called OPINION,,,but since i make a living out of "my opinions" id take them very seriously if i was you or any one else to that matter.
again you bring a SOLID proof and i open a PANDORA BOX. deal?
MAY have used insulin?? try "experiemented with insulin" with out the may infront of it. i always claimed he experiemnted with insulin and testosterone.
So I'll add this to my list of questions . how do you know he experimented with insulin? and at the begining of this thread you mearly claimed steroid use NOT insulin and now in this post you're claiming you always claimed thats simply not true , you just recently added this claim.
the answer i will give you for your questions will never satisfy you so why bother? you cant give me one proof to your claims that he never done it.
see the moment you provide me a "positive proof",,that make me look like an idiot,, i will provide you the best proofs any one possibly can online becuse as you notice i have short temper and i dont like to be proved an idiot ;)
You know the answers you give me wont satisfy me because its bullshit. and again you're the one claiming to know what he took , how long he took it , what was available , etc.. NOT ME the burden of proof lies ON YOU to back up your claims and as of yet you have not done that.
And I provided you with a direct statement from Steve Reeves outright denying any use , thats a hell of a lot better than what you've come up with. and who should I believe? Steve Reeves or some allged IFBB pro on GetBig lol who supplements his imcome by dealing?
Now I can claim that you also supplement your imcome by doing gay-for-pay because its a realitive common practice among bodybuilders who aren't sloely making a living off the sport. now the burden of proof lies on me to back up that claim . but if I follow your lead I don't have to verify anything just make a baseless claim and tell you to prove me wrong. see how it works out?
so here it is i give you a mission,,,go find a proof,,,some kind of drug test,,,or something to that level at that era (then you didnt know how to cheat the system so i will exept something like that) and i will give you solid proofs that will shock your world.
the point is neither you nor i can give 100% proofs. this is why it is called OPINION,,,but since i make a living out of "my opinions" id take them very seriously if i was you or any one else to that matter.
again you bring a SOLID proof and i open a PANDORA BOX. deal?
Again these are YOU CLAIMS stop asking ot to prove anything this isn't about me ! this is about gh15 and his claims , prove your claims and stop making them.
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Again many bodybuilders are open about thier use as well. now the ones who have to lie about their use are usually doing while they're currectly using . Steve Reeves retired in 1950 and use some logic & common sense . he would have absolutely no reason to lie what so ever. he was retired and lets entertain that steroids were available to him back then they wouldn't have been illegal so what would his motivation for lying 50 years after the fact be? simple none.
Did you know Steve Reeves personally? How could you even profess to know what the man's motivations would or wouldn't be? The only things you know about Reeves are what you read in a muscle magazine or online. Real credible sources ::)
You call Garreath a groupie and you post shit like this
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ok this will be the last time i respond on this thread since im obviously talking to a kid. from reading you,,you simply have zero clue to what reality is in the uniqe, interesting and quite misleading world of bodybuilding.
most bodybuilders "have" a chemist degree my friend. i would not count on them as a chemist but most of us know chemistry better than the fuckin proffessors. thats that
now i am ending this ridicoulous thread and WILL start another one later on when i have more time since someone got a comp soon and need to train a second session today ;)
i will end this by giving you a major secret so maybe your big head can learn what i been trying to stuck in it the last 300 posts ;)
have you ever heard about the combination of letters D N P? very popular drug (in 1930-40s nothing was a crime when it comes to sport enhancing products,,it was all in research phases)
add DNP too to the insulin and rough versions of testosterone he experiemnted with. DNP WAS A VERY POPULAR FAT LOSS product AT THOSE DAYS
the problem is my friend,,,you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about hormones. that is the main problem.
again i will start a complete new thread now about steve reeves and his drug use thank to guess who,,,,you got that one right i hope,,,you. in this thread i will elaborate about steeve reeves drug experiements and his ability to own the bodybuilding scene against the competition during the 40s.
another suggestion i would recomend to you is to open the arnold book about the education of a bodybuilder,,,since you love those books,,,in this book there is a picture of arnold standing last raw and then in the front raw there is a picture of franco,,,they are in the europian champinoship if i remember correctly with other young guys of the day. franco is REAL NATURAL THERE my friend.
i suggest you go and take a look and learn the difference between the 2 because since i dont charge you money on every sentence i say here,,,,i at the least! expect you to become educated.
enjoy and i will start a thread for my opinion about mr reeves and drug experiemnting either today or very soon. it will be very detailed and will help many here.
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Did you know Steve Reeves personally? How could you even profess to know what the man's motivations would or wouldn't be? The only things you know about Reeves are what you read in a muscle magazine or online. Real credible sources ::)
You call Garreath a groupie and you post shit like this
Thank you ! you just proved my entire point . I never claimed to know Reeves personally , or know his motivations . I'm not the one claiming to know what Reeves allegedly experimented with , the duration , the types gh15 did that , so don't be hypocritcal. don't complain I even hinted at knowing what his intenstions or motivations and not say a damn would to gh15 who in FACT claimed to know his intentions & motivation. when you do so it makes you look like a jackass.
Two facts are is follows , Steve Reeves flat out denies ever takeing steroids . this is a fact I have the book and its in black & white.
Fact anabolic steroids were NOT in use in the United States until the bare minimum 1956 , thats six years after Reeves retired. these are facts and I can back them up .
gh15 has yet to provide ANY facts what so ever as to his claims .
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ok this will be the last time i respond on this thread since im obviously talking to a kid. from reading you,,you simply have zero clue to what reality is in the uniqe, interesting and quite misleading world of bodybuilding.
most bodybuilders "have" a chemist degree my friend. i would not count on them as a chemist but most of us know chemistry better than the fuckin proffessors. thats that
now i am ending this ridicoulous thread and WILL start another one later on when i have more time since someone got a comp soon and need to train a second session today ;)
i will end this by giving you a major secret so maybe your big head can learn what i been trying to stuck in it the last 300 posts ;)
have you ever heard about the combination of letters D N P? very popular drug (in 1930-40s nothing was a crime when it comes to sport enhancing products,,it was all in research phases)
add DNP too to the insulin and rough versions of testosterone he experiemnted with. DNP WAS A VERY POPULAR FAT LOSS product AT THOSE DAYS
the problem is my friend,,,you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about hormones. that is the main problem.
again i will start a complete new thread now about steve reeves and his drug use thank to guess who,,,,you got that one right i hope,,,you. in this thread i will elaborate about steeve reeves drug experiements and his ability to own the bodybuilding scene against the competition during the 40s.
another suggestion i would recomend to you is to open the arnold book about the education of a bodybuilder,,,since you love those books,,,in this book there is a picture of arnold standing last raw and then in the front raw there is a picture of franco,,,they are in the europian champinoship if i remember correctly with other young guys of the day. franco is REAL NATURAL THERE my friend.
i suggest you go and take a look and learn the difference between the 2 because since i dont charge you money on every sentence i say here,,,,i at the least! expect you to become educated.
enjoy and i will start a thread for my opinion about mr reeves and drug experiemnting either today or very soon. it will be very detailed and will help many here.
Again the master of avoiding direct questions ! I have read Arnold The Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding in fact I've read it cover-to-cover at least 5 times starting in 1985 . that has nothing to do with your claims.
elaborate on your claims about Steve Reeves specifically I don't care about anyone else , prove how you personally know Steve Reeves experimented with steroids and insulin.
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Thank you ! you just proved my entire point . I never claimed to know Reeves personally , or know his motivations . I'm not the one claiming to know what Reeves allegedly experimented with , the duration , the types gh15 did that , so don't be hypocritcal. don't complain I even hinted at knowing what his intenstions or motivations and not say a damn would to gh15 who in FACT claimed to know his intentions & motivation. when you do so it makes you look like a jackass.
Two facts are is follows , Steve Reeves flat out denies ever takeing steroids . this is a fact I have the book and its in black & white.
Fact anabolic steroids were NOT in use in the United States until the bare minimum 1956 , thats six years after Reeves retired. these are facts and I can back them up .
gh15 has yet to provide ANY facts what so ever as to his claims .
What I did say 20 posts ago is that NOBODY knows. The thing is GH15 says he thinks he did because of his vast experience and thourough knowledge of anabolics and their effects, and you say you know he didn't because he said so. I'm with GH on this one.
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ofcoure the encyclopedia got nothinng to do with my claims,,,its the WRONG book moron,, macfly,,any body home?? the education of a bodybuilder small thin book where arnold is retired before the 80s olympia if i remember correctly only on hrt doses of hormones wearing a tank and having a million dollar smile while crossing his hands on the cover,,
what kind of bodybuilder are you?? any single bodybuilder around usa knows this picture like the abc. it is from the 60s arnold flexing on the back and bunch of reatrds infront of him in the championship. one of them is franco and that has a lot to do with my opinions. THIS IS HOW A NATURAL 100% NOT EXPERIENCED (PRE ARNOLD ADVICE ERA TO HIM) REAL 100% ALL NATURAL BODYBUILDER LOOKS LIKE.
i swear you start looking stupid as in stupifffy like the american dr phil say :D and i rarely call people stupid
gotta go now falks
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Adam, do you know about the history of AAS? It was definitely available to Steve Reeves in the fourties.
Wrong, dumbass. You should stick to reviewing gay musclebear videos, because you don't know shit about real bodybuilders.
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GH15 is just some steroid clown who wants to discredit Steve Reeves because the guy had a better physique than him. He is not a pro. He is not some big-time bodybuilding insider. He is a con artist and a liar.
Think about it. Guys like gh15 spend years pumping themselves full of juice, but they still look like shit compared to great naturals like Steve Reeves. It must be a huge blow to their egos to know that drug-free champions like Reeves would destroy them in a fair contest.
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GH15 is just some steroid clown who wants to discredit Steve Reeves because the guy had a better physique than him. He is not a pro. He is not some big-time bodybuilding insider. He is a con artist and a liar.
Think about it. Guys like gh15 spend years pumping themselves full of juice, but they still look like shit compared to great naturals like Steve Reeves. It must be a huge blow to their egos to know that drug-free champions like Reeves would destroy them in a fair contest.
i brought this up in a previous post, GH knows that if he were drug free he'd be half the size of Reeves, Grimek, Sandow or any of the past greats.
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What I did say 20 posts ago is that NOBODY knows. The thing is GH15 says he thinks he did because of his vast experience and thourough knowledge of anabolics and their effects, and you say you know he didn't because he said so. I'm with GH on this one.
Wrong Steve Reeves knows and he said he never did , and I'm supposed to believe some internet screen name over a bodybuilding legend? get serious , I have no reason to doubt Steve Reeves honesty. I have a reason to doubt gh15.
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ofcoure the encyclopedia got nothinng to do with my claims,,,its the WRONG book moron,, macfly,,any body home?? the education of a bodybuilder small thin book where arnold is retired before the 80s olympia if i remember correctly only on hrt doses of hormones wearing a tank and having a million dollar smile while crossing his hands on the cover,,
what kind of bodybuilder are you?? any single bodybuilder around usa knows this picture like the abc. it is from the 60s arnold flexing on the back and bunch of reatrds infront of him in the championship. one of them is franco and that has a lot to do with my opinions. THIS IS HOW A NATURAL 100% NOT EXPERIENCED (PRE ARNOLD ADVICE ERA TO HIM) REAL 100% ALL NATURAL BODYBUILDER LOOKS LIKE.
i swear you start looking stupid as in stupifffy like the american dr phil say :D and i rarely call people stupid
gotta go now falks
Wrong book , who cares? I've read the education as well and neither have ANYTHING to do with your claims about Steve Reeves. period. answer the questions .
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i brought this up in a previous post, GH knows that if he were drug free he'd be half the size of Reeves, Grimek, Sandow or any of the past greats.
That's exactly where the garbage that GH is pouring out it is coming from, pure jealousy. GH's jealousy that he could never look like any of those guys naturally. He sees someone in great shape and in his opinion they have to be on steroids, since he sad ass could never get in that kind of shape without drugs. He's pathetic.
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That's exactly where the garbage that GH is pouring out it is coming from, pure jealousy. GH's jealousy that he could never look like any of those guys naturally. He sees someone in great shape and in his opinion they have to be on steroids, since he sad ass could never get in that kind of shape without drugs. He's pathetic.
In summary, because I think some of you are missing the point of gh15s starting tread, is that the human body is not meant to be lean and muscular over a certain body weight, naturally.
There are exceptions but not many. Go into any gym anywhere and you will find many individuals training hard, eating right, taking various supplements and proteins, giving up time, money, and careers, etc., etc., and looking average (or slightly better than average).. How many individuals do you know who train and train and maybe look slightly better than average? A few... Again there are always exceptions (however small)..
Genetics plays a major factor, but still a limiter… I think gh15s message is clear.. Do not think that training, perfect eating, and supplementation is going to give you a large muscular body, because for most it will not!
Enjoy training and working out but understand the limits. Unless you are prepared to use various types of hormonal drugs and take that next step.
I have had the opportunity to train with many pro BBs over the years. As a matter of fact Onlyme and I trained in the same gym, during the same time frame (late 70s and early 80s), and met and worked out with many of the same pros. And all of them, every last one tried and or continued to use hormone drugs of some kind. And some of these guys had been around the BB community for years. Again, anyone of them that had large muscular physique tried, used, or continued to use hormones.
I was very naive thinking that hard training and good food alone would give me the results that I wanted… What a wake up call…
My first experiences with hormone type drugs to include GH were under the supervision of Dr. Robert B. Kerr (google him if you do not know who he was).. Dr. Kerr was considered an expert with regarding these types of medicines for sports enhancement and had worked with most of the top BBs in the 80’s. I remember him telling me the exact combination of medicines he had one the winning Mr. Olympia’s on right up to contest day. And he had been working with this guy for a year and a half to get him in shape for this contest. Dr. Kerr had working and consulted with many athlete's from all different sports fields.
I got off track here but the point is heed gh15s advise and opinion or don’t. But stop the negative comments to a guy who is freely posting his opinion and experiences based on years in the game.
Everything is not always as it appears.
Have fun and stay healthy.
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the threat was for a specific drug dealer. those are no regular guys,,they earn in a single day what you make in a whole month. in rome act like a romanian my friend :D
Since you know nothing about me, nor what I earn it is once again pure SPECULATION what they earn vs. what I may or may not earn. Speculation... which seems to be what your first post on this thread is all about. What you are professing to be the gospel truth is nothing more than your own opinion and guess. An educated guess nonetheless, but a guess all the same.
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WHY didnt Reeves use???? BS. Russians were using German PE's in the 40's and 50's...and guess what?? :D
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WHY didnt Reeves use???? BS. Russians were using German PE's in the 40's and 50's...and guess what?? :D
(
20th Century History
The History of the Olympics:
1952 - Helsinki, Finland
The 1952 Olympic Games were largely a reflection of the Cold War. The Soviet Union, after having been out of the Games since 1912, decided to rejoin the competition. The Soviets Dominated the Summer Games. And the USSR, instead of joining the other athletes in the Olympic Village, set up their own Olympic Village for Eastern bloc countries in Otaniemi, near the Soviet naval base at Porkkala. Soviet athletes were chaperoned by Soviet officials everywhere they went in an effort to prevent communication with athletes from the West.
The competition of East versus West dominated the atmosphere.
Approximately 5,000 athletes participated in the Games, representing 69 countries.
* Bob Mathias as quoted in Allen Guttmann, The Olympics: A History of the Modern Games (Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 1992) 97.
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WHY didnt Reeves use???? BS. Russians were using German PE's in the 40's and 50's...and guess what?? :D
(
20th Century History
The History of the Olympics:
1952 - Helsinki, Finland
The 1952 Olympic Games were largely a reflection of the Cold War. The Soviet Union, after having been out of the Games since 1912, decided to rejoin the competition. The Soviets Dominated the Summer Games. And the USSR, instead of joining the other athletes in the Olympic Village, set up their own Olympic Village for Eastern bloc countries in Otaniemi, near the Soviet naval base at Porkkala. Soviet athletes were chaperoned by Soviet officials everywhere they went in an effort to prevent communication with athletes from the West.
The competition of East versus West dominated the atmosphere.
Approximately 5,000 athletes participated in the Games, representing 69 countries.
* Bob Mathias as quoted in Allen Guttmann, The Olympics: A History of the Modern Games (Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 1992) 97.
No one doubting the Russians were using testosterone in the mid-1950s thats how steroid use in the United States started .
The story of steroid use in sports began just before the World Weightlifting Championships of 1954. The Soviets had made their Olympic debut in Helsinki in 1952, and made quite an impact, but nothing compared to the show they put on in 1954. That year, the Soviets easily dominated most of the weight classes. As the story goes, John Ziegler (team physician for the United States) questioned the soviet team´s doctor after the medals were given out, and the soviet doctor said that his team had been receiving testosterone injections. That, in all probability, was the first time anyone had ever used anabolic steroids to enhance performance in an athletic event. According to some unconfirmed sources, testosterone preparations were used by Germany´s Olympic team in 1936 for the Berlin Olympics. At that time, there were rumors that an Olympic medal winner had previously used oral Testosterone preparations, but the benefit to be had from them (due to the technology at the time regarding oral testosterone) would have been minor. In the case of the Soviets, however, rumors of discarded syringes in their dressing rooms made it clear that they were not using oral steroids, they were using something different. And everyone wanted to know what it was.
Steve Reeves retired in 1950 well before steroids were produced & first started being used in the United States .
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In summary, because I think some of you are missing the point of gh15s starting tread, is that the human body is not meant to be lean and muscular over a certain body weight, naturally.
There are exceptions but not many. Go into any gym anywhere and you will find many individuals training hard, eating right, taking various supplements and proteins, giving up time, money, and careers, etc., etc., and looking average (or slightly better than average).. How many individuals do you know who train and train and maybe look slightly better than average? A few... Again there are always exceptions (however small)..
Genetics plays a major factor, but still a limiter… I think gh15s message is clear.. Do not think that training, perfect eating, and supplementation is going to give you a large muscular body, because for most it will not!
Enjoy training and working out but understand the limits. Unless you are prepared to use various types of hormonal drugs and take that next step.
I have had the opportunity to train with many pro BBs over the years. As a matter of fact Onlyme and I trained in the same gym, during the same time frame (late 70s and early 80s), and met and worked out with many of the same pros. And all of them, every last one tried and or continued to use hormone drugs of some kind. And some of these guys had been around the BB community for years. Again, anyone of them that had large muscular physique tried, used, or continued to use hormones.
I was very naive thinking that hard training and good food alone would give me the results that I wanted… What a wake up call…
My first experiences with hormone type drugs to include GH were under the supervision of Dr. Robert B. Kerr (google him if you do not know who he was).. Dr. Kerr was considered an expert with regarding these types of medicines for sports enhancement and had worked with most of the top BBs in the 80’s. I remember him telling me the exact combination of medicines he had one the winning Mr. Olympia’s on right up to contest day. And he had been working with this guy for a year and a half to get him in shape for this contest. Dr. Kerr had working and consulted with many athlete's from all different sports fields.
I got off track here but the point is heed gh15s advise and opinion or don’t. But stop the negative comments to a guy who is freely posting his opinion and experiences based on years in the game.
Everything is not always as it appears.
Have fun and stay healthy.
No one is questioning his knowlege about steroids in todays game or even the last decade , or that it takes something just a tad more than weight gainer to be 250 + pounds. What I'm question is his claims of knowing that Steve Reeves experimented with steroids and insulin. and his alleged duration , types , and dosages.
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as i promised a lesson given by me for free for getbigger is on the main board. enjoy and learn.
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provide me with your sources that
A) steroids were available since 1940
B) how you know Steve experimented
I cannot say anything about Reeves' use; however it is definetly true that testosterone products were available as soon as the mid 1935... This is from an article by Drs. Hoberman and Yesalis (two of the leading authorities on anabolic steroids and their history) published in an issue of ''Scientific american'' (Hoberman JM; Yesalis CE. The history of synthetic testosterone. Scientific American., Feb.1995;76,77):
Since the 1940s countless elite athletes and bodybuilders have taken these drugs to increase muscle mass and to intensify training regimens. For the past 25 years, this practice has been officially proscribed yet maintained by a $1-billion international black market. That testosterone products have served many therapeutic roles in legitimate clinical medicine for an even longer period is less well known. Fifty years ago, in fact, it appeared as though testosterone might become a common therapy for aging males, but for various reasons it did not gain this "legitimate" mass-market status. Perhaps most important, physicians were concerned that these drugs often caused virilizing side effects when administered to women, including a huskier voice and hirsutism.
(...)
The Isolation of Testosterone
Before Stanley and his fellow surgeons started performing transplant operations, other scientists had begun searching for a specific substance having androgenic properties. In 1911 A. Pezard discovered that the comb of a male capon grew in direct proportion to the amount of animal testicular extracts he injected into the bird. Over the next two decades researchers used this and similar animal tests to determine the androgenic effects of various substances isolated from large quantities of animal testicles or human urine. Their quest entered its final stage in 1931, when Adolf Butenandt managed to derive 15 milligrams of androsterone, a nontesticular male hormone, from 15,000 liters of policemen's urine. Within the next few years, several workers confirmed that the testes contained a more powerful androgenic factor than did urine--testosterone.
Three research teams, subsidized by competing pharmaceutical companies, raced to isolate the hormone and publish their results. On May 27, 1935, Karoly Gyula David and Ernst Laqueur and their colleagues, funded by the Organon company in Oss, the Netherlands (where Laqueur had long been the scientific adviser), submitted a now classic paper entitled "On Crystalline Male Hormone from Testicles (Testosterone)." On August 24 a German journal received from Butenandt and G. Hanisch, backed by Schering Corporation in Berlin, a paper describing "a method for preparing testosterone from cholesterol." And on August 31 the editors of "Helvetica Chimica Acta" received "On the Artificial Preparation of the Testicular Hormone Testosterone (Androsten-3-one-17-ol)" from Leopold Ruzicka and A. Wettstein, announcing a patent application in the name of Ciba. Butenandt and Ruzicka eventually shared the 1939 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for this discovery.
The struggle for the synthetic testosterone market had begun. By 1937 clinical trials in humans were already under way, employing injections of testosterone propionate, a slow-release derivative of testosterone, as well as oral doses of methyl testosterone, which is broken down in the body more slowly than is testosterone. These experiments were initially as haphazard and unregulated as the more primitive methods involving testicular extracts or transplants. In its early phase, however, synthetic testosterone therapy was reserved primarily for treating men with hypogonadism, allowing them to develop fully or maintain secondary sexual characteristics, and for those suffering from a poorly defined "male climacteric" that included impotence.''
Now, earlier in the thread someone pointed out that dianabol was the first steroid used by American lifters in 1956 and that Dr.Ziegler was the one who designed the drug. This is not 100% correct. Dr.Ziegler DID NOT have anything to do with the development of dianabol. CIBA pharmaceuticals developed the drug and asked Dr.Ziegler to distribute it to weightlifters (at the time Dr.Ziegler was the doctor for the US weightlifting team) so that they could gauge its effect under 'real life' circumstances (yeah, medical ethics were not the same then as they are now).
It IS true that dianabol became widely used by the mid 50s but it wasn't the first steroid used. Testosterone was experimented with in the last 40s and early 50s... the first 'wave' of experimenter were european athletes & bodybuilders as well as american athletes who would go to europe for certain periods of time. The second wave was in the early 50s when Dr.Ziegler (once again, the team doctor for the US weighlifting team) learned first hand from Soviet doctors that their lifters had been using testosterone preparations for a while.
Now, this doesn't prove that Steve Reeves used steroids; but it does show that he indeed had the possibility to do so... being one of the top bodybuilder in the world he was unbdoutably among the 'inside crowd' and he was traveling to europe quite often.
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I cannot say anything about Reeves' use; however it is definetly true that testosterone products were available at soon as the nid 1935... This is from an article by Dr. Yesalis (one of the leading authority on anabolic steroids and their history) published in an issue of ''Scientific american'':
Since the 1940s countless elite athletes and bodybuilders have taken these drugs to increase muscle mass and to intensify training regimens. For the past 25 years, this practice has been officially proscribed yet maintained by a $1-billion international black market. That testosterone products have served many therapeutic roles in legitimate clinical medicine for an even longer period is less well known. Fifty years ago, in fact, it appeared as though testosterone might become a common therapy for aging males, but for various reasons it did not gain this "legitimate" mass-market status. Perhaps most important, physicians were concerned that these drugs often caused virilizing side effects when administered to women, including a huskier voice and hirsutism.
(...)
The Isolation of Testosterone
Before Stanley and his fellow surgeons started performing transplant operations, other scientists had begun searching for a specific substance having androgenic properties. In 1911 A. Pezard discovered that the comb of a male capon grew in direct proportion to the amount of animal testicular extracts he injected into the bird. Over the next two decades researchers used this and similar animal tests to determine the androgenic effects of various substances isolated from large quantities of animal testicles or human urine. Their quest entered its final stage in 1931, when Adolf Butenandt managed to derive 15 milligrams of androsterone, a nontesticular male hormone, from 15,000 liters of policemen's urine. Within the next few years, several workers confirmed that the testes contained a more powerful androgenic factor than did urine--testosterone.
Three research teams, subsidized by competing pharmaceutical companies, raced to isolate the hormone and publish their results. On May 27, 1935, Karoly Gyula David and Ernst Laqueur and their colleagues, funded by the Organon company in Oss, the Netherlands (where Laqueur had long been the scientific adviser), submitted a now classic paper entitled "On Crystalline Male Hormone from Testicles (Testosterone)." On August 24 a German journal received from Butenandt and G. Hanisch, backed by Schering Corporation in Berlin, a paper describing "a method for preparing testosterone from cholesterol." And on August 31 the editors of "Helvetica Chimica Acta" received "On the Artificial Preparation of the Testicular Hormone Testosterone (Androsten-3-one-17-ol)" from Leopold Ruzicka and A. Wettstein, announcing a patent application in the name of Ciba. Butenandt and Ruzicka eventually shared the 1939 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for this discovery.
The struggle for the synthetic testosterone market had begun. By 1937 clinical trials in humans were already under way, employing injections of testosterone propionate, a slow-release derivative of testosterone, as well as oral doses of methyl testosterone, which is broken down in the body more slowly than is testosterone. These experiments were initially as haphazard and unregulated as the more primitive methods involving testicular extracts or transplants. In its early phase, however, synthetic testosterone therapy was reserved primarily for treating men with hypogonadism, allowing them to develop fully or maintain secondary sexual characteristics, and for those suffering from a poorly defined "male climacteric" that included impotence.''
Now, earlier in the thread someone pointed out that dianabol was the first steroid used by American lifters in 1956 and that Dr.Ziegler was the one who designed the drug. This is not 100% correct. Dr.Ziegler DID NOT have anything to do with the development of dianabol. CIBA pharmaceuticals developed the drug and asked Dr.Ziegler to distribute it to weightlifters (at the time Dr.Ziegler was the doctor for the US weightlifting team) so that they could gauge its effect under 'real life' circumstances (yeah, medical ethics were not the same then as they are now).
It IS true that dianabol became widely used by the mid 50s but it wasn't the first steroid used. Testosterone was experimented with in the last 40s and early 50s... the first 'wave' of experimenter were european athletes & bodybuilders as well as american athletes who would go to europe for certain periods of time. The second wave was in the early 50s when Dr.Ziegler (once again, the team doctor for the US weighlifting team) learned first hand from Soviet doctors that their lifters had been using testosterone preparations for a while.
Now, this doesn't prove that Steve Reeves used steroids; but it does show that he indeed had the possibility to do so... being one of the top bodybuilder in the world he was unbdoutably among the 'inside crowd' and he was traveling to europe quite often.
Dude if you are going to post crap, make sure you give the source, otherwise it appears that you are the fuckwit responsible for penning said crap
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Dude if you are going to post crap, make sure you give the source, otherwise it appears that you are the fuckwit responsible for penning said crap
Hoberman JM; Yesalis CE. The history of synthetic testosterone. Scientific American., Feb.1995;76,77
Some infos about the authors:
Charles E. Yesalis, M.P.H., Sc.D.
Dr. Yesalis received his Bachelor of Science and Master of Public Health degrees from the University of Michigan and he was awarded his doctoral degree by the Johns Hopkins University School of Hygiene and Public Health in 1975. He then joined the faculty at Johns Hopkins for one year. Dr. Yesalis was a member of the Department of Preventive Medicine and Environmental Health at the University of Iowa, College of Medicine from 1976-1986. From 1986-2006 he was Professor of Health Policy and Administration and Exercise and Sport Science at The Pennsylvania State University.
For the past twenty-eight years, much of Dr. Yesalis' research has been devoted to the non-medical use of anabolic-androgenic steroids (AS) and other performance-enhancing drugs and dietary supplements. In 1988 he directed the first national study of AS use among adolescents and was the first to present evidence of psychological dependence on AS. In addition, he has studied the incidence of AS use among elite power lifters, collegiate athletes, and professional football players. In 1993, using nationwide data, he demonstrated the association between AS use and violent behavior as well as an association with the use of other illicit drugs and alcohol. He also presented an estimate of lifetime AS use in the U.S. population (over one million). A recent study conducted by Dr. Yesalis showed a significant increase in AS use among teenage girls and boys since 1990. In 1998 he wrote The Steroids Game which focuses on prevention, education, and intervention regarding AS use by adolescents. He is the editor of a medical reference text, Anabolic Steroids in Sport and Exercise (2nd ed.) and co-editor of Performance Enhancing Substances in Sport and Exercise.
On six occasions he has been asked to testify before U.S. Congress on legislation related to the control of AS and growth hormone abuse. Dr. Yesalis has been a consultant to, among others, the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy, U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Food and Drug Administration, Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse: National Commission on Sports and Substance Abuse, the NFL Players Association, the U.S. Olympic Committee, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, and the National Strength and Conditioning Association.
Books published:
Bahrke, M. & Yesalis, C. (Eds.) Performance-Enhancing Drugs in Sport and Exercise, Human Kinetics, Champaign, IL, 2002.
Yesalis, C. (Ed.). Anabolic Steroids in Sport and Exercise (2nd ed.), Human Kinetics, Champaign, IL, 2000.
Yesalis, C. & Bahrke, M. Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids: Incidence of Use and Health Implications. President=s Council on Physical Fitness and Sports Research Digest, Series 5, No. 5, 2006.
Yesalis, CE, Bahrke, MS. Anabolic steroid and stimulant use in North American sport between 1850 and 1980. Sport in History 25(3):434-451, 2006.
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Yes we know who Chuck Yesalis is, clown
For now, I am sure some folks here would love a copy of the original article, I know I would, so if you be a gent and give us either a) a link to said piece or b) scan the original copy, we would be most gratefull
Good chap
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Yes we know who Chuck Yesalis is, clown
For now, I am sure some folks here would love a copy of the original article, I know I would, so if you be a gent and give us either a) a link to said piece or b) scan the original copy, we would be most gratefull
Good chap
I guess you'll just have to subscribe to the magazine! Or you can buy the whole article for around 5$ at: http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=CF3AB494-6F4B-4336-9B13-5DF00AE51B3
There are some trunked copies of the article on the net, but their incompletedness will probably not satisfy you. Anyway, I do think that the parts I posted were to the point as they adressed the origin of the development of testosterone and the question was to prove that testosgterone was available in the 40s; and the part posted do show that it did.
As for scanning the copy; I'm presently traveling and all I have is my laptop and a wireless internet connection, sorry to dissapoint you.
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I guess you'll just have to subscribe to the magazine! Or you can buy the whole article for around 5$ at: http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=CF3AB494-6F4B-4336-9B13-5DF00AE51B3
There are some trunked copies of the article on the net, but their incompletedness will probably not satisfy you. Anyway, I do think that the parts I posted were to the point as they adressed the origin of the development of testosterone and the question was to prove that testosgterone was available in the 40s; and the part posted do show that it did.
As for scanning the copy; I'm presently traveling and all I have is my laptop and a wireless internet connection, sorry to dissapoint you.
CT, I'm just having a laugh, I've posted to you before, its friday and I'm bored
:)
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CT, I'm just having a laugh, I've posted to you before, its friday and I'm bored
:)
Fuck, and I just bought the online article to send it to ya! Well there goes my supper at the restaurant :)