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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: knny187 on September 15, 2006, 11:10:55 AM
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I say "no"
LOS ANGELES (Sept. 15) - New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush and his family appear to have accepted gifts, money and other benefits worth more than $100,000 from two marketing agents while the Heisman Trophy winner was still playing at Southern California, according to a report posted Thursday on Yahoo.com.
Julie Jacobson, AP
Reggie Bush left USC with a national championship and the Heisman Trophy. Did he also leave with his pockets lined?
The report says Michael Michaels, a marketing agency investor who wanted to represent the football star, and current Bush marketing agent Mike Ornstein lavished Bush and his family with gifts while he was still at USC, each hoping to entice him to sign with them once he left school.
Bush eventually chose Ornstein, which caused a falling out between Michaels and Bush's family.
Speculation over whether Bush and his family received money arose earlier this year in reports that his mother and stepfather didn't pay $54,000 in rent during the year they lived in a house owned by Michaels, who later said the family promised to repay him once Bush went pro.
The NCAA prohibits student-athletes and their families from receiving extra benefits from agents or their representatives. Any improper benefits could lead to NCAA sanctions against USC and retroactively cost Bush his college eligibility and Heisman Trophy.
The report was based on an eight-month investigation by Yahoo Sports, citing documents and interviews with on-the-record sources close to the situation. It lists several instances in which Bush and his family appear to have received financial benefits, including:
Suits for Bush's stepfather and brother to wear during the Dec. 10, 2005 Heisman ceremony in New York, a makeover for his mother for the event and limousine transportation - all paid for by Ornstein.
Two hotel stays by Bush, one in Las Vegas and another in San Diego, during March 2005. In both instances, the rooms were paid for by Michaels.
$13,000 from Michaels' fledgling firm, New Era Sports & Entertainment, to purchase and modify a car for Bush.
$595.20 in round-trip airfare from San Diego to Oakland in November 2005 for Bush's stepfather, LaMar Griffin, his mother, Denise Griffin and younger brother to attend the USC-California game at Berkeley. The charges were put on a credit card belonging to Jamie Fritz, one of Ornstein's employees.
Ornstein said he believes that when Fritz paid for airfare and a limousine for the Bush family's trip to the Cal game, the money was eventually paid back. Asked whether he was aware that such loans could constitute an NCAA violation, Ornstein told Yahoo: "I have no idea."
A phone message left by The Associated Press for Bush's attorney, David Cornwell, and Ornstein were not immediately returned late Thursday.
Ornstein denied to Yahoo any wrongdoing on his and Bush's behalf.
"Reggie Bush never received an extra benefit from Mike Ornstein other than what he was allowed to get from the NCAA when he worked with us," Ornstein told Yahoo. He added Bush was an intern at his marketing company in the summer of 2005. "I feel pretty damn good about that."
The NCAA and Pac-10 are investigating whether any rules were broken when Bush's family lived in the home owned by Michaels. Cornwell also said earlier this summer that FBI agents interviewed him about "potential federal crimes" by phone in June. The FBI would neither confirm nor deny whether a federal investigation was under way.
The NFL players union also is investigating the rent payments.
In a statement released by USC counsel Kelly Bendell, the school said it is cooperating with the probe but "cannot comment on any matter that is the subject of an ongoing NCAA and Pac-10 investigation."
Saints spokesman Greg Bensel told the AP the team would not comment on matters involving Bush when he was in college.
"It doesn't involve the Saints," he said.
The allegations would have no effect on Bush's professional football career, a person within the NFL with knowledge of Bush's standing in the league told the AP. The source asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the situation.
Bush was expected to be the No. 1 overall pick in the NFL draft, but the Houston Texans bypassed him and took North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams. Bush went to New Orleans with the second pick.
AP Sports writers Brett Martel in New Orleans and John Nadel in Los Angeles contributed to this report.
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Bush didn't get over $100,000. Most of the benefits allegedly went to his family.
I think he should keep his trophy.
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IMO, it doesn't really matter now, he's making his mark in the NFL, making millions and was the rookie MVP last week. I'm pretty sure the NCAA rules are clear reguarding gifts and he and his handelers I'm sure knew, I say strip the Heisman!
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Bush didn't get over $100,000. Most of the benefits allegedly went to his family.
I think he should keep his trophy.
You don't some of that money went to him...it's a fine line, if it wasn't for him, his family wouldn't have got nothing!
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You don't some of that money went to him...it's a fine line, if it wasn't for him, his family wouldn't have got nothing!
Perhaps he got something, but the lion's share involves the rented house lived in by his parents.
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I don't think the Heisman goes back.
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I think he should be stripped, and so should USC . . . like Michigan's bb team were . . . everyone will still know what caliber player he was, but the NCAA should also uphold their own standards before they become irrelevant.
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Wouldn't that then make him responsible for the actions of others?
If your brother committed murder, ...should YOU be punished?
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Wouldn't that then make him responsible for the actions of others?
If your brother committed murder, ...should YOU be punished?
Depends on wether he was aiding and abedding!
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Wouldn't that then make him responsible for the actions of others?
If your brother committed murder, ...should YOU be punished?
[Gasp] I agree with Jag. :o
I don't think most kids know what their parents' financial situation is. He can't be expected to know that his parents are living in a rent-free house.
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Its ridiculous that these schools make millions on their sports franchises, but their athletes aren't paid.
Not only should he keep the heisman he should make bank from it too.
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jag is a dumbass . . . i expected better from you, bb.
1. I'm sure your kids wouldn't raise an eyebrow if they came home tomorrow and found a note saying "come on over to our new home on Diamond Head." It's not like he was in college and warned about this stuff either.
2. He received direct benefits.
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Actually, the heisman is just a trphy. USC couild lose their nat'l titles, as he was an ineligible player. Just like if he had failed all his courses and played anyway. If you have one ineligible player, whether it be a star or a scrub, you sometimes have to forfeit the games.
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Its ridiculous that these schools make millions on their sports franchises, but their athletes aren't paid.
Not only should he keep the heisman he should make bank from it too.
well, then who needs the ncAa? besides, the NFL likes using college football as a kind of "minor league," so they're investigating this too . . . it's a character issue . . . get some college under your belt before you handle a man's responsibilities. he just acted like a spoiled child and now it's biting the spoilers in the ass. he's not going to lose anything . . . so what if they take his Heisman?natl championship away?
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Depends on wether he was aiding and abedding!
If he was 'abedding', it would be the Anita Bryant and the homo-police coming after him, not the NCAA.
I believe the word you're searching for is 'abetting', however, 'aiding & abetting' is a 'criminal' term.
Accepting gifts is not a crime, ...and one should not be held accountable for the malfeasance of others. I say let Michaels take the family to court for any back rent he believes he is due, if he can prove he had a rental agreement for them to pay the money to begin with. If not, he should be the one answering to why he allowed such a thing, and if the conclusion was to have the family pressure him to sign with Michaels, then I doubt any rental agreement could be enforceable. If anything, Michaels could find himself up on charges like 'conspiring to corrupt a minor' or something similar since it would clearly be an attempt to get him to break rules. Who'd have ever thunk I'd stick up for someone named Bush? :D
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If he was 'abedding', it would be the Anita Bryant and the homo-police coming after him, not the NCAA.
I believe the word you're searching for is 'abetting', however, 'aiding & abetting' is a 'criminal' term.
Accepting gifts is not a crime, ...and one should not be held accountable for the malfeasance of others. I say let Michaels take the family to court for any back rent he believes he is due, if he can prove he had a rental agreement for them to pay the money to begin with. If not, he should be the one answering to why he allowed such a thing, and if the conclusion was to have the family pressure him to sign with Michaels, then I doubt any rental agreement could be enforceable. If anything, Michaels could find himself up on charges like 'conspiring to corrupt a minor' or something similar since it would clearly be an attempt to get him to break rules. Who'd have ever thunk I'd stick up for someone named Bush? :D
silly broad . . . start criticizing other people's spelling when you learn to spell yourself. For starters, it's a "conscience," not a "conscious."
and he wasn't a minor so that's bs too.
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silly broad . . . start criticizing other people's spelling when you learn to spell yourself. For starters, it's a "conscience," not a "conscious."
I don't believe I used either word in the above quote you reference.
and he wasn't a minor so that's bs too.
I suspected that since he was in college, ...however, I do believe I said 'something similar'.
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jag is a dumbass . . . i expected better from you, bb.
1. I'm sure your kids wouldn't raise an eyebrow if they came home tomorrow and found a note saying "come on over to our new home on Diamond Head." It's not like he was in college and warned about this stuff either.
2. He received direct benefits.
1. They might raise an eyebrow, but they still wouldn't know my finances. They wouldn't know if the house was rented, whether I saved and invested for the last ten years to buy, whether a rich relative died and left me money, etc. And I'd never live anywhere near Diamond Head. :) He wasn't living with his parents at the time.
2. He allegedly received direct benefits. The primary benefit allegedly went to his parents.
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Accepting gifts is not a crime, ...and one should not be held accountable for the malfeasance of others.
It's not a "crime," but it is a violation of NCAA rules (depending on the gift and who it comes from).
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If he was 'abedding', it would be the Anita Bryant and the homo-police coming after him, not the NCAA.
I believe the word you're searching for is 'abetting', however, 'aiding & abetting' is a 'criminal' term.
Sorry, I suffer from what I call "Yogi Berra" syndrom!
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Sorry, I suffer from what I call "Yogi Berra" syndrom!
why are you apologizing to that harpie?
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Sorry, I suffer from what I call "Yogi Berra" syndrom!
You remind me more of a big 'BooBoo' ...except BooBoo was cute & lovable. >:(
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You remind me more of a big 'BooBoo' ...except BooBoo was cute & lovable. >:(
I said "Yogi Berra" not "Yogi Bear" ::)!
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It's not a "crime," but it is a violation of NCAA rules (depending on the gift and who it comes from).
That's why I said 'aiding & abetting' is such an inappropriate term. An infraction of a rule set by an athletic association is not a crime, ...it is an infraction of a rule.
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I said "Yogi Berra" not "Yogi Bear" ::)!
And I said BooBoo.
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1. They might raise an eyebrow, but they still wouldn't know my finances. They wouldn't know if the house was rented, whether I saved and invested for the last ten years to buy, whether a rich relative died and left me money, etc. And I'd never live anywhere near Diamond Head. :) He wasn't living with his parents at the time.
2. He allegedly received direct benefits. The primary benefit allegedly went to his parents.
1. "allegedly" . . . forget juries for a moment . . . you know he did. I don't understand why you're being intentionally naive about this.
2. he can plead ignorance about his parents' actions . . . if i were an NCAA lawyer, i would look into Bush's relationship w Michaels. I'm sure Michaels will be willing to cooperate at this point.
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1. "allegedly" . . . forget juries for a moment . . . you know he did. I don't understand why you're being intentionally naive about this.
2. he can plead ignorance about his parents' actions . . . if i were an NCAA lawyer, i would look into Bush's relationship w Michaels. I'm sure Michaels will be willing to cooperate at this point.
1. I'm not being naive. I just haven't read enough about the facts to say definitively that he received improper benefits. He very well may have, but I'll wait till something a little more reliable than yahoo.com provides information.
I do believe players, agents, boosters, etc. cheat all the time.
2. They can look into his actions, but I doubt there is a smoking gun. Plus they already let Jarrett off the hook. No question he received a direct benefit from Leinart's father (paying most of Jarrett's rent):
"In June, the NCAA revoked Jarrett's eligibility because he paid only $650 a month toward the $3,866-a-month rent on the apartment. Leinart had also paid $650, and his father paid the rest. The NCAA reinstated Jarrett a few weeks ago, but he must pay about $5,000 to charity over the course of his eligibility."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-jarrett24aug24,0,4147147.story?coll=la-home-sports
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2. They can look into his actions, but I doubt there is a smoking gun. Plus they already let Jarrett off the hook. No question he received a direct benefit from Leinart's father (paying most of Jarrett's rent):
"In June, the NCAA revoked Jarrett's eligibility because he paid only $650 a month toward the $3,866-a-month rent on the apartment. Leinart had also paid $650, and his father paid the rest. The NCAA reinstated Jarrett a few weeks ago, but he must pay about $5,000 to charity over the course of his eligibility."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-jarrett24aug24,0,4147147.story?coll=la-home-sports
If Michaels is a smart man, there is really only one outcome.
USC boosters will pay him a huge sum to make any evidence he has that Bush was aware that griffin was receiving benefits to interfere w him disappear.
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IMO, it doesn't really matter now, he's making his mark in the NFL, making millions and was the rookie MVP last week. I'm pretty sure the NCAA rules are clear reguarding gifts and he and his handelers I'm sure knew, I say strip the Heisman!
The school and the NCAA made millions off of Bush and he can't get a few gifts, such as limo rides and housing?
The Heisman trophy is given to the best players in college football, and that's what Bush was last season regardless or whether he recieved gifts or not.
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The real villain here is the NCAA. The schools make millions off these kids while most of the kids never make it farther than collegiate athletics. Lots of these kids are very poor and not very mature. The NCAA is made up of the biggest fucking hippocrits.
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I don't think the Heisman goes back.
Fuck, OJ still has his Heisman!
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The school and the NCAA made millions off of Bush and he can't get a few gifts, such as limo rides and housing?
The Heisman trophy is given to the best players in college football, and that's what Bush was last season regardless or whether he recieved gifts or not.
Hey, that doesn't just apply to Heisman winners or even the football programs, it applies to all NCAA sports.....why should he be treated any different that any other collegiate athlete?
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How can you strip Bush when officially OJ is still the 1968 Heisman Trophy winner. ???
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The real villain here is the NCAA. The schools make millions off these kids while most of the kids never make it farther than collegiate athletics. Lots of these kids are very poor and not very mature. The NCAA is made up of the biggest fucking hippocrits.
regardless of what the NCAA does, it's a character issue . . .
the NCAA and BCS should do a better job of making sure that the money college football generates goes back to the colleges and universities in the right manner.
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Hey, that doesn't just apply to Heisman winners or even the football programs, it applies to all NCAA sports.....why should he be treated any different that any other collegiate athlete?
Let's face it, not every other collegiate athlete was Reggie Bush. He probably single handedly made millions for the NCAA, so I think he should be given a free pass.
Taking Hiesman trophy now wouldn't resolve anything. They should just strip USC of some scholarships.
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regardless of what the NCAA does, it's a character issue . . .
the NCAA and BCS should do a better job of making sure that the money college football generates goes back to the colleges and universities in the right manner.
Your right. But I think the NCAA should get off its high moral horse and start reforming itself. Get rid of these archaic rules. These kids are mostly poor blacks. They deserve more than a scholarship. They have no money, their families are often destitute. Its hard to blame these kids if they come from nothing and see an oppurtunity to help their families. At least thats what I think.
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How can you strip Bush when officially OJ is still the 1968 Heisman Trophy winner. ???
Because OJ was never caught cheating (not saying Bush cheated). He is a murderer, but that really has nothing to do with the Heisman.
But it irritates me too.
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Your right. But I think the NCAA should get off its high moral horse and start reforming itself. Get rid of these archaic rules. These kids are mostly poor blacks. They deserve more than a scholarship. They have no money, their families are often destitute. Its hard to blame these kids if they come from nothing and see an oppurtunity to help their families. At least thats what I think.
They do deserve more than a scholarship, they deserve an education . . . and the NCAA should make sure they get it. they should use some of those millions.
Talent doesn't equate being paid. Talent that is usable equates being paid. to have usable talent, you need character. Following rules and getting an education help develop character. four years is not a long time to wait for your payday.
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Because OJ was never caught cheating (not saying Bush cheated). He is a murderer, but that really has nothing to do with the Heisman.
But it irrigates me too.
Didn't somebody steal OJ's Heisman from USC?
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They do deserve more than a scholarship, they deserve an education . . . and the NCAA should make sure they get it. they should use some of those millions.
Talent doesn't equate being paid. Talent that is usable equates being paid. to have usable talent, you need character. Following rules and getting an education help develop character. four years is not a long time to wait for your payday.
Four years can be a long time when your family doesn't have a pot to piss in. Some guys come to school with zero spending money, one pair of pants and one shirt, shoes with holes. Give these student athletes some of the money from bowl games, licensing of jerseys etc...
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Didn't somebody steal OJ's Heisman from USC?
Fred Goldman seized and sold it.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2401021&page=1
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Four years can be a long time when your family doesn't have a pot to piss in. Some guys come to school with zero spending money, one pair of pants and one shirt, shoes with holes. Give these student athletes some of the money from bowl games, licensing of jerseys etc...
if they're that poor, the families are eligible for other forms of assistance. student athletes who are moneymakers for their schools are well taken care of . . . they need the extra benefits to ride around in a blinged out car
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They should just let it go.
These guys have enough to deal with while in College. If someone paid for this or that for them...I don't see the harm.
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Fred Goldman seized and sold it.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2401021&page=1
He is suing OJ again as we speak. I guess OJ gets paid well for speaking engagements and he isn't paying up. What I can't understand is who the fuck would hire OJ to speak?
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if they're that poor, the families are eligible for other forms of assistance. student athletes who are moneymakers for their schools are well taken care of . . . they need the extra benefits to ride around in a blinged out car
Schools with big time college football programs make out like bandits. Yes the athletes get a free education, room, and board, which is a great benefit, but the school receives millions on the backs of these kids. The schools get their money back many times over from ticket, merchandise, T.V., and bowl revenue. The schools that get the major bowl payouts receive about $8 - $10 million. I'd like to see them share more of that money with the athletes.
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Schools with big time college football programs make out like bandits. Yes the athletes get a free education, room, and board, which is a great benefit, but the school receives millions on the backs of these kids. The schools get their money back many times over from ticket, merchandise, T.V., and bowl revenue. The schools that get the major bowl payouts receive about $8 - $10 million. I'd like to see them share more of that money with the athletes.
and how do you propose they share it?
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and how do you propose they share it?
Stipends. Set amount for every player.
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Stipends. Set amount for every player.
Exactly, that is how it is performed in for Major Junior Hockey in Canada. This kids are 16-20 and are given a decent living allowance through stipends.
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Stipends. Set amount for every player.
every position would make more sense.
starting qb=$ rather than Matt Leinart=$
i can see that.
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every position would make more sense.
starting qb=$ rather than Matt Leinart=$
i can see that.
Nah. Too inconsistent. Players lose their jobs all the time due to performance and injury.
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yes it should be stripped
vince young proved he was the superior player anyways so give it to him he earned it
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Not.
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h8r
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yes it should be stripped
vince young proved he was the superior player anyways so give it to him he earned it
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Dammit Earl, sometimes when i agree with you, you have to go and scwer up your post by saying something stupid like "Vince young was the superior player" :-X!!
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Dammit Earl, sometimes when i agree with you, you have to go and scwer up your post by saying something stupid like "Vince young was the superior player" :-X!!
who dominated the most important game of the season and who got greedy trying to make a highlight reel play that cost his team the ball and in the end the game?
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who dominated the most important game of the season and who got greedy trying to make a highlight reel play that cost his team the ball and in the end the game?
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One game doesn't earn you the Heisman..........who won the NFL rookie of the week last week??????
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One game doesn't earn you the Heisman
Thank you. Bush was the most explosive, dominant, and talented player in college football last year. Running, receiving, punt returns, kickoff returns. He did it all. Didn't he have over 300 all purpose yards in one game? I think he averaged something like 9 yards a carry? Not even close.
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Just remembered that Auburn ran the table in 2004, but didn't get a shot at the nat'l championship . . .
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One game doesn't earn you the Heisman..........who won the NFL rookie of the week last week??????
we're talking college football here so the nfl is irrelevant
that one game happened to be the national championship and vince's numbers wouldv'e been far greater but he never played the whole game
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but he never played the whole game
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All the more reason why he didn't get it!
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All the more reason why he didn't get it!
yeah probably vince would mow down teams by halftime and would be taken out
he could've scored 10 td's in alot of those games
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yeah probably vince would mow down teams by halftime and would be taken out
he could've scored 10 td's in alot of those games
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And Bush was splitting carries with LenDale White.
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And Bush was splitting carries with LenDale White.
agianst weak competition
not to mention vince dominated the rose bowl and bush lost his team the game :)
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agianst weak competition
not to mention vince dominated the rose bowl and bush lost his team the game :)
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You mean all those players from the PAC 10 who get drafted every year? There really isn't much difference between the PAC 10 and the Big 12 IMO.
Earl stop drinking the hateraide. :)
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yeah probably vince would mow down teams by halftime and would be taken out
he could've scored 10 td's in alot of those games
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???
clearly never watched a big 12 game in his life.
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You mean all those players from the PAC 10 who get drafted every year? There really isn't much difference between the PAC 10 and the Big 12 IMO.
Earl stop drinking the hateraide. :)
all those pac 10 players play for USC
not hating, i just think that vince was a better college player and reggie should lose the heisman for breaking the rules
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???
clearly never watched a big 12 game in his life.
over the l;ast 5 years what pac 10 teams other than usc are on the same level as texas and oklahoma?
also remember vince beat ohio state who killed notre dame
a team that reggie had to cheat to beat by pushing leinart in the end zone >:(
once a cheat always a cheat give the heisman to vince
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all those pac 10 players play for USC
not hating, i just think that vince was a better college player and reggie should lose the heisman for breaking the rules
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Nah. The Pac 10 puts a lot of players in the NFL every year. So does the Big 12. I've never done a comparison, but I doubt there is a huge disparity for either conference.
I think it is debatable whether Vince was a better college player than Bush. I personally think it's Bush hands down, but I can see an argument for Vince. His game against USC was one of the most dominant college performances I've ever seen.
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I have Big 12 loyalties, but to be fair . . . I think the Pac-10 puts out a lot of players of NFL caliber . . .wer're talking about freaking california as a recruiting base.
Um, and since Earl doesn't seem to watch college football, Oregon just beat Oklahmoma.
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HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Earl's team just got PWN3D by Reggie Williams. Where did Reggie Williams play college ball, Earl?
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I have Big 12 loyalties, but to be fair . . . I think the Pac-10 puts out a lot of players of NFL caliber . . .wer're talking about freaking california as a recruiting base.
Um, and since Earl doesn't seem to watch college football, Oregon just beat Oklahmoma.
I said over the last 5 years and the refs for that game have been suspended for screwing over oklahoma
alot of those cali players play in the sec and big 12
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HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Earl's team just got PWN3D by Reggie Williams. Where did Reggie Williams play college ball, Earl?
he played at washington and he played far from great we held them without a td ::)
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the refs for that game have been suspended for screwing over oklahoma
those mofos really did screw OU over. bastards. but then again they were always w/in striking distance.