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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Coach is Back! on April 03, 2010, 10:52:46 PM
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CHARLOTTE - Even by President Obama's loquacious standards, an answer he gave here on health care Friday was a doozy.
Toward the end of a question-and-answer session with workers at an advanced battery technology manufacturer, a woman named Doris stood to ask the president whether it was a "wise decision to add more taxes to us with the health care" package.
"We are over-taxed as it is," Doris said bluntly.
Obama started out feisty. "Well, let's talk about that, because this is an area where there's been just a whole lot of misinformation, and I'm going to have to work hard over the next several months to clean up a lot of the misapprehensions that people have," the president said.
He then spent the next 17 minutes and 12 seconds lulling the crowd into a daze. His discursive answer - more than 2,500 words long -- wandered from topic to topic, including commentary on the deficit, pay-as-you-go rules passed by Congress, Congressional Budget Office reports on Medicare waste, COBRA coverage, the Recovery Act and Federal Medical Assistance Percentages (he referred to this last item by its inside-the-Beltway name, "F-Map"). He talked about the notion of eliminating foreign aid (not worth it, he said). He invoked Warren Buffett, earmarks and the payroll tax that funds Medicare (referring to it, in fluent Washington lingo, as "FICA").
Always fond of lists, Obama ticked off his approach to health care -- twice. "Number one is that we are the only -- we have been, up until last week, the only advanced country that allows 50 million of its citizens to not have any health insurance," he said.
A few minutes later he got to the next point, which seemed awfully similar to the first. "Number two, you don't know who might end up being in that situation," he said, then carried on explaining further still.
"Point number three is that the way insurance companies have been operating, even if you've got health insurance you don't always know what you got, because what has been increasingly the practice is that if you're not lucky enough to work for a big company that is a big pool, that essentially is almost a self-insurer, then what's happening is, is you're going out on the marketplace, you may be buying insurance, you think you're covered, but then when you get sick they decide to drop the insurance right when you need it," Obama continued, winding on with the answer.
Halfway through, an audience member on the riser yawned.
But Obama wasn't finished. He had a "final point," before starting again with another list -- of three points.
"What we said is, number one, we'll have the basic principle that everybody gets coverage," he said, before launching into the next two points, for a grand total of seven.
His wandering approach might not matter if Obama weren't being billed as the chief salesman of the health-care overhaul. Public opinion on the bill remains divided, and Democratic officials are planning to send Obama into the country to persuade wary citizens that it will work for them in the long run.
It was not evident that he changed any minds at Friday's event. The audience sat politely, but people in the back of the room began to wander off.
Even Obama seemed to recognize that he had gone on too long. He apologized -- in keeping with the spirit of the moment, not once, but twice. "Boy, that was a long answer. I'm sorry," he said, drawing nervous laughter that sounded somewhat like relief as he wrapped up.
But, he said: "I hope I answered your question."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/04/obamas-17-minute-2500-word-res.html
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It's a miracle he answered the queston without TOTUS. :o
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We aren't overtaxed. Look at other countries in the west. We get off fucking easy...Yes the rich pay more but you have a moral obligation to pay more if you make more. It's not like they get taxed into the poor house and these dirty motherfuckers move and hide money anyway. ::)
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It's a miracle he answered the queston without TOTUS. :o
You fucking idiots complain that he uses the teleprompter too much....lol.
After the fucking idiot you had in the White House before Obama you nimcumpoots have no room to talk. If that's the best you can do it's pretty pathetic.
You fucks are done for a while and the Dems are waiting for you idiots to try and repeal this bill, cause you'll look like morons. There's already a memo out for repubs to take credit for key portions of the bill that they ALL voted against...LOL.
Republicans are so predictable...
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We aren't overtaxed. Look at other countries in the west. We get off fucking easy...Yes the rich pay more but you have a moral obligation to pay more if you make more. It's not like they get taxed into the poor house and these dirty motherfuckers move and hide money anyway. ::)
A "MORAL" obligation to pay more taxes if you make more money. REALLY? I would love to see a flat tax; fair is fair.
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I saw that thing on Drudge and thought it was pretty weak of that closet homo matt drudge. Slow news day.
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You fucking idiots complain that he uses the teleprompter too much....lol.
After the fucking idiot you had in the White House before Obama you nimcumpoots have no room to talk. If that's the best you can do it's pretty pathetic.
You fucks are done for a while and the Dems are waiting for you idiots to try and repeal this bill, cause you'll look like morons. There's already a memo out for repubs to take credit for key portions of the bill that they ALL voted against...LOL.
Republicans are so predictable...
MELTDOWN.
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We aren't overtaxed. Look at other countries in the west. We get off fucking easy...Yes the rich pay more but you have a moral obligation to pay more if you make more. It's not like they get taxed into the poor house and these dirty motherfuckers move and hide money anyway. ::)
Who the hell says we have a "moral obligation" to pay more in taxes just because you make more money???? Sounds like someone bought into "the system" as it is....I agree on a flat tax for everyone....You think I would be ashamed of hiding my funds from uncle sam if all he wanted to do was take them from me to support mis-management of funds by senators and congress men???
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Who the hell says we have a "moral obligation" to pay more in taxes just because you make more money???? Sounds like someone bought into "the system" as it is....I agree on a flat tax for everyone....You think I would be ashamed of hiding my funds from uncle sam if all he wanted to do was take them from me to support mis-management of funds by senators and congress men???
I don't expect greedy motherfuckers to agree with me. Yeah, it's really fair for a person that makes $20,000 to pay 10% = $18,000 net vs. $200,000 x 10% = $180,000 net and $2,000,000 x 10% = $1,800,000 net as an example....Really fucking fair assholes. ::)
At least I can be happy knowing this crazy bullshit will never happen.
I'm sure you wouldn't be ashamed it's not like most people report what they really took in anyway. I haven't brought in to any system. I'm doing whats right and I'd believe the same thing if I made alot of money. A progressive tax is the fairest way of taxing. Flat tax is bullshit and just another way of rich people of getting out of paying their fair share. Pure capitalism is not a good system. I love and hate capitalism. It brings out the best and worst in people.
It doesn't account for everyone and leaves the door open for a few to dominate and use their economic power as politcal power...Walla you have America. Not saying I want a socialist country, I'd just put alot more limitations on the way business is ran, tax the fuck out of the super rich, close loopholes so sheisty motherfuckers don't try and get through, cut taxes for small business and give them a shit load of tax credits. Redefine the term, "small business"
I can go on if you'd like...
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Republicans are the same people that believe that people that are poor or not rich are that way because they didn't work hard enough ::) LOL
Gentlemen, I'm a registered independent. Dems have their probs repubs are straight fucked. Their 19th century model is old and outdated kind of like conservatives in general. Conserving old ways and not changing with the times. Then playing on the Constitution when it benefits them. Fuckers would still have slaves if it were legal.
Thank God the Jews control things to keep you bastards in line. :D ;D
I await "Cooch" and the other bass-ackwards thinking morons and their conservative principles. Like business and other things in existence, we must be constantly changing and adjusting to our environment and society. There are some principles and ideas i.e. The Consitution and Bill of Rights that should remain. We don't even have to make this about Obama we can just debate principles. Abortion, War on Drugs (oh brother ::))Taxes, Immigration (fuck we all lose on that shit), National Defense, etc...
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your the lazy negro using drugs to diet and you want
to debate what? regardless your not old enough or educated
enough in life principles to enter any worthwhile debate.
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"A "MORAL" obligation to pay more taxes if you make more money. REALLY? I would love to see a flat tax; fair is fair."
Definitely more fair.
My guess is that it woudln't work though. Poor and middle class already spend about 100% of their earnings at walmart. You toss in a 20% flat tax and they spend 20% less. You take away 1/5 of american spending, and a lot of industries will close.
But it would be tons more fair. I have supported one for years. Are there any examples of other nations who have used a flat tax succesfully?
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over the course of human history has there even been person that has felt under taxed? even if you cut the tax rate in half you would still have people complaining about being over taxed.
more to the point, those feeling over taxed usually feel that the government is not spending those tax dollars on programs and services that benefit that directly.
by the way through out the course of human history has there ever been an efficient and effective government on a mass scale?
the poor always feel that the rich should pay more taxes
the rich always feel that they should be taxed less
and the middle class is always ambivalent towards the poor and envy the rich and so are always complaining about being over taxed.
the real truth is that every government eventually ends up in a Plutonomy
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your the lazy negro using drugs to diet and you want
to debate what? regardless your not old enough or educated
enough in life principles to enter any worthwhile debate.
Because I'm using ECA and t-3 mean I can't debate? Really valid argument ::)
I'm more than educated enough and old enough so whenever your ready to rumble gramps
Your first sentence tells me your ability to reason and make valid arguments = FAIL.
So go ahead, take the pussy's way out.
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Because I'm using ECA and t-3 mean I can't debate? Really valid argument ::)
I'm more than educated enough and old enough so whenever your ready to rumble gramps
Your first sentence tells me your ability to reason and make valid arguments = FAIL.
So go ahead, take the pussy's way out.
I dont understand why people think that the rich shouldnt be taxed more than the poor. That doesnt make any fucking sense. The poor barely scrape by living on their means, where 5,000 a year is the difference between eating and not eating... (Im not talking about people living on welfare), The rich wouldnt even notice if they lost 5,000 a year.
It just doesnt make any sense to me. IMHO, people with a huge % of the wealth should pay a large % of the taxes. I would say a flat tax would be viable if everyone had an equal share of the wealth, but its not that way. How much of the wealth is owned by the wealthy?
Ive heard the whole 90% of the wealth is in the hands of 10% of the people, if thats the case, why in hell would you say everyone should pay an equal share? Becuase you don't want to see your stocks drop a half a fucking point?
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Because I'm using ECA and t-3 mean I can't debate? Really valid argument ::)
Your posts lately have taken a bitter and angry turn, maybe you should cut the dosage, WiggletX.
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your the lazy negro using drugs to diet and you want
to debate what? regardless your not old enough or educated
enough in life principles to enter any worthwhile debate.
arent you john D the supplement guy? youre no natty yourself!
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Your posts lately have taken a bitter and angry turn, maybe you should cut the dosage, WiggletX.
LOL
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Because I'm using ECA and t-3 and taking the pussy way out means I can't debate?
exactly.
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coach is being thorough a bad thing?
lmao.. our president sucks so bad.. he is fully explanatory and gives answers that cover all related information ::)
dummy's love dummy's
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I wonder how Jesus felt about the poor? Anyone know? Coach...you follow that myth can you enlighten us as to what the Bible says about 'feeding and clothing the poor'? Does it say anything about rich people? Anything about their chances of getting to heaven?
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We aren't overtaxed. Look at other countries in the west. We get off fucking easy...Yes the rich pay more but you have a moral obligation to pay more if you make more. It's not like they get taxed into the poor house and these dirty motherfuckers move and hide money anyway. ::)
Since when do I have a 'Moral" obligation to work for anyone else but my family?
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Since when do I have a 'Moral" obligation to work for anyone else but my family?
part time christians.... on easter no less.... sad
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I don't expect greedy motherfuckers to agree with me. Yeah, it's really fair for a person that makes $20,000 to pay 10% = $18,000 net vs. $200,000 x 10% = $180,000 net and $2,000,000 x 10% = $1,800,000 net as an example....Really fucking fair assholes. ::)
At least I can be happy knowing this crazy bullshit will never happen.
I'm sure you wouldn't be ashamed it's not like most people report what they really took in anyway. I haven't brought in to any system. I'm doing whats right and I'd believe the same thing if I made alot of money. A progressive tax is the fairest way of taxing. Flat tax is bullshit and just another way of rich people of getting out of paying their fair share. Pure capitalism is not a good system. I love and hate capitalism. It brings out the best and worst in people.
It doesn't account for everyone and leaves the door open for a few to dominate and use their economic power as politcal power...Walla you have America. Not saying I want a socialist country, I'd just put alot more limitations on the way business is ran, tax the fuck out of the super rich, close loopholes so sheisty motherfuckers don't try and get through, cut taxes for small business and give them a shit load of tax credits. Redefine the term, "small business"
I can go on if you'd like...
Greedy? I've asked this before and I will ask YOU again. How much of your income (assuming you have a job) do you VOLUNTARILY give each year?
If you add all the taxes we pay (property, federal, state, sales, etc,etc) we put out over 50% in taxes. So don't sit there and give your socialist lecture to people who actually WORK hard for their families and assets.
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Since when do I have a 'Moral" obligation to work for anyone else but my family?
Agreed, this is a free market, if you want to get ahead, work harder.
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part time christians.... on easter no less.... sad
Huh?
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didnt jesus say we had an obligation to help those less fortunate...
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I don't expect greedy motherfuckers to agree with me. Yeah, it's really fair for a person that makes $20,000 to pay 10% = $18,000 net vs. $200,000 x 10% = $180,000 net and $2,000,000 x 10% = $1,800,000 net as an example....Really fucking fair assholes. ::)
At least I can be happy knowing this crazy bullshit will never happen.
I'm sure you wouldn't be ashamed it's not like most people report what they really took in anyway. I haven't brought in to any system. I'm doing whats right and I'd believe the same thing if I made alot of money. A progressive tax is the fairest way of taxing. Flat tax is bullshit and just another way of rich people of getting out of paying their fair share. Pure capitalism is not a good system. I love and hate capitalism. It brings out the best and worst in people.
It doesn't account for everyone and leaves the door open for a few to dominate and use their economic power as politcal power...Walla you have America. Not saying I want a socialist country, I'd just put alot more limitations on the way business is ran, tax the fuck out of the super rich, close loopholes so sheisty motherfuckers don't try and get through, cut taxes for small business and give them a shit load of tax credits. Redefine the term, "small business"
I can go on if you'd like...
Sounds like one big excuse for the untalented and lazy.
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Agreed, this is a free market, if you want to get ahead, work harder.
I can't seem to get that through some people's heads on here. This should be commonsense.
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didnt jesus say we had an obligation to help those less fortunate...
Maybe, but Jesus does not regulate how American society works, nor should he.
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Anyone remember this? Do you feel this is right and should I have to work for people like this? She seems perfectly capable of making more of her life than just buying a house and expecting other people to pay for it!
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Anyone remember this? Do you feel this is right and should I have to work for people like this? She seems perfectly capable of making more of her life than just buying a house and expecting other people to pay for it!
Hahahah, this is a perfect example of the type of people who want the successful to fund their lazy asses.
Why doesn't this skank enroll in a community college, get a job and make something of herself?
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Since when do I have a 'Moral" obligation to work for anyone else but my family?
how very 'christ-like' of you... ::)
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."
-Matthew 6:24
Personally I don't give a sh*t if you want to shelter only 'yours' but that doesn't seem to stop you from preaching to others how to live a 'moral' life. Go stick another needle in your ass and keep your 'morality' to yourself from now on hypocrit.
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Anyone remember this? Do you feel this is right and should I have to work for people like this? She seems perfectly capable of making more of her life than just buying a house and expecting other people to pay for it!
That woman is a complete idiot.
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You fucking idiots complain that he uses the teleprompter too much....lol.
He didnt use it when he spanked all the republicans together on their own turf back at the Republican retreat. ;D U cant deny the fact the man is very capable of holding his own just fine, and can form actual sentences....unlike "That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, we're ill about this position that we have been put in. Where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it's got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and getting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade -- we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We've got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation."...you guess the "celebrity". ;D
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she asked a question and he answered it
complicated issues shouldn't always be dumbed down into catch phrases
if voters can't understand and make informed decisions what are they doing exactly?
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Since when do I have a 'Moral" obligation to work for anyone else but my family?
quite telling of your christian morality.
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He didnt use it when he spanked all the republicans together on their own turf back at the Republican retreat. ;D U cant deny the fact the man is very capable of holding his own just fine, and can form actual sentences....unlike "That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, we're ill about this position that we have been put in. Where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it's got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and getting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade -- we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We've got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation."...you guess the "celebrity". ;D
brilliant lady, just brilliant.
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Doom and necrosis, AGAIN, I've asked this question several times when ever this subject comes up and I can't seem to get an answer from aholes like you who want to judge me but I'll will ask again. How much do you voluntarily give from your incomes? I can honestly say I give approximately 18% of my income of my own free will. How bout you?
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I don't expect greedy motherfuckers to agree with me. Yeah, it's really fair for a person that makes $20,000 to pay 10% = $18,000 net vs. $200,000 x 10% = $180,000 net and $2,000,000 x 10% = $1,800,000 net as an example....Really fucking fair assholes. ::)
At least I can be happy knowing this crazy bullshit will never happen.
I'm sure you wouldn't be ashamed it's not like most people report what they really took in anyway. I haven't brought in to any system. I'm doing whats right and I'd believe the same thing if I made alot of money. A progressive tax is the fairest way of taxing. Flat tax is bullshit and just another way of rich people of getting out of paying their fair share. Pure capitalism is not a good system. I love and hate capitalism. It brings out the best and worst in people.
It doesn't account for everyone and leaves the door open for a few to dominate and use their economic power as politcal power...Walla you have America. Not saying I want a socialist country, I'd just put alot more limitations on the way business is ran, tax the fuck out of the super rich, close loopholes so sheisty motherfuckers don't try and get through, cut taxes for small business and give them a shit load of tax credits. Redefine the term, "small business"
I can go on if you'd like...
This is such a weak argument.
your upper middle class and rich examples just contributed almost $220k to the tax pool and your poor friend just kicked in $2k. That money is already what pays for your roads, your public tranportation, etc. The wealthy are already contributing more, not to mention chances are, your millionaire here is probably the only one of the three that has ever hired employees, created jobs, and contributed to the GDP...
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This is such a weak argument.
your upper middle class and rich examples just contributed almost $220k to the tax pool and your poor friend just kicked in $2k. That money is already what pays for your roads, your public tranportation, etc. The wealthy are already contributing more, not to mention chances are, your millionaire here is probably the only one of the three that has ever hired employees, created jobs, and contributed to the GDP...
x2
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I don't minding paying a little extra if it means the less fortunate have access to health care
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Seems I still can't get an answer.
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Seems I still can't get an answer.
what are you saying that is your tax bracket, because thats not what you "volunteerily give up", its what you are forced to give up. I have no idea what your statement means, if its tax then your statement is a lie. You are a hypocrite and do not live by the standards you say your life is goverened by.
My father is in the 50% tax bracket, rarely hear him complain. Thats expected though since material goods mean as much to him as the shit in your pants.He drives a 500 dollar car because he gave me his so i could avoid repair costs while in school, 93 HONDA CIVIC is what he drives. I am not taxed at the moment as i have been in school for 9 years atm with more to go.
that the question answered, why dont you live by what you preach ie the bible namely jesus. You dont and cant because you are greedy. Hardwork only gets you so far.Could you be a doctor joe making 700 000 gs a year? no, no matter what you do because you dont have the brains for it, this hardwork ideology is bullshit, no one works harder then the poor and with the shitiest jobs.
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Seems I still can't get an answer.
You're gonna be waiting a long time, cause of course these fuckers won't give one, I agree with you
I hate our system in Canada, all these f*cking refugee's and jamaican / 3rd world losers living off my taxes,
here if you have a kid you're automatically entitled to government living and government income which taxpayers pay for... meanwhile these lowlife's life people from MTV Cribs while we get to slave away 9-5 to pay for their baby mama's nails and hair.... nice eh?
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Oh wow.
Ok, let's take a second and figure out who the "rich/wealthy" are.
I can think of two ways that people are "rich/wealthy" (excluding winning the lottery--which is taxed to death anyway):
1). You were born into wealth
2). You worked hard and became rich/wealthy
For me, I went to college full time (5 years at CSUF) and got my BA while working 30 hours a week. Now, I have a great paying job with awesome benefits.
The guy at the local car wash who makes minimum wage has no education and no skills. Yeah, I'm sure he works hard everyday, but he has a job where he can be easily replaced by another person who has no education and no skills.
^^^Now if this guy works at the car wash and goes to school at a community college (because I'm sure he can get financial aid due to his low income), gets his AA, then continues to work, and gets his BA at another college (because I'm sure he will still get financial aid), then he can get a better job/career--because he now has an education or a skill.
I don't feel sorry for someone that works at a car wash for 30 years making minimum wage......even if they "work hard everyday."
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Oh wow.
Ok, let's take a second and figure out who the "rich/wealthy" are.
I can think of two ways that people are "rich/wealthy" (excluding winning the lottery--which is taxed to death anyway):
1). You were born into wealth
2). You worked hard and became rich/wealthy
For me, I went to college full time (5 years at CSUF) and got my BA while working 30 hours a week. Now, I have a great paying job with awesome benefits.
The guy at the local car wash who makes minimum wage has no education and no skills. Yeah, I'm sure he works hard everyday, but he has a job where he can be easily replaced by another person who has no education and no skills.
^^^Now if this guy works at the car wash and goes to school at a community college (because I'm sure he can get financial aid due to his low income), gets his AA, then continues to work, and gets his BA at another college (because I'm sure he will still get financial aid), then he can get a better job/career--because he now has an education or a skill.
I don't feel sorry for someone that works at a car wash for 30 years making minimum wage......even if they "work hard everyday."
or he could just join the army
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We aren't overtaxed. Look at other countries in the west. We get off fucking easy...Yes the rich pay more but you have a moral obligation to pay more if you make more. It's not like they get taxed into the poor house and these dirty motherfuckers move and hide money anyway. ::)
so true, BOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! great post!!
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do they still tax you when you die?
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do they still tax you when you die?
No, they tax your relatives that get all your shit.
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if you don't like being taxed so much stop making so much money, problem solved. Maybe start enjoying life more???
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My reply Coach is that I give nothing, I take care of my own because I have no 'moral obligation' to other humans...just like you. The difference Coach is that I don't profess to follow the judeo-christian mythology or any mythology that tells me how to act...there's no 'moral conflict' in my body.
Now again...what did this Jesus say about the poor? You know, Jesus, the guy that you kneel in front of every week, the one use 'body' you eat and 'blood' you drink? The one who's forgiveness you should be praying for since you're a sinner? What are his words about treating the 'least of us'? Did he say that they were doomed to their lowly life or did he 'walks amongst them' and profess a philosophy of loving thy neighbor? What did he say about 'rendering to Ceasar' and what do you think that statement means?
Who inherits the earth Coach?
Who makes it to heaven?
Who's served first?
Either live the 'morality' you preach or go back to being a juiced up, insecure, ignorant, hate spewing, hypocrit, and closet queer. Your exes already know the truth...
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what are you saying that is your tax bracket, because thats not what you "volunteerily give up", its what you are forced to give up. I have no idea what your statement means, if its tax then your statement is a lie. You are a hypocrite and do not live by the standards you say your life is goverened by.
My father is in the 50% tax bracket, rarely hear him complain. Thats expected though since material goods mean as much to him as the shit in your pants.He drives a 500 dollar car because he gave me his so i could avoid repair costs while in school, 93 HONDA CIVIC is what he drives. I am not taxed at the moment as i have been in school for 9 years atm with more to go.
that the question answered, why dont you live by what you preach ie the bible namely jesus. You dont and cant because you are greedy. Hardwork only gets you so far.Could you be a doctor joe making 700 000 gs a year? no, no matter what you do because you dont have the brains for it, this hardwork ideology is bullshit, no one works harder then the poor and with the shitiest jobs.
No dude, that isn't even close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I CHOOSE to give, it's not taken (extorted) from me. I tithe to my church and son's school, I donate to certain charity organizations such as spina bifida and others and also donate my time during the holidays to help the homeless by serving food at a soup kitchen. Last year I donated almost $35,000 of my personal income, not for a write off but because I WANTED TOO.
So...with all of that said, HOW MUCH DID YOU GIVE?
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My reply Coach is that I give nothing, I take care of my own because I have no 'moral obligation' to other humans...just like you. The difference Coach is that I don't profess to follow the judeo-christian mythology or any mythology that tells me how to act...there's no 'moral conflict' in my body.
Now again...what did this Jesus say about the poor? You know, Jesus, the guy that you kneel in front of every week, the one use 'body' you eat and 'blood' you drink? The one who's forgiveness you should be praying for since you're a sinner? What are his words about treating the 'least of us'? Did he say that they were doomed to their lowly life or did he 'walks amongst them' and profess a philosophy of loving thy neighbor? What did he say about 'rendering to Ceasar' and what do you think that statement means?
Who inherits the earth Coach?
Who makes it to heaven?
Who's served first?
Either live the 'morality' you preach or go back to being a juiced up, insecure, ignorant, hate spewing, hypocrit, and closet queer. Your exes already know the truth...
I consider myself to be religious and I go to church.
BUT....
What Jesus told us regarding "the poor" has NOTHING to do with what we are taxed!!!
Your analogy means that our government is donating OUR money for us (through taxes) and they get to use is how they want to and give it to who the want to.
What Jesus told us is we need to donate our time and money to "the poor," NOT "pay your taxes to help the poor." If so, then the rich--who pay more taxes--have a golden ticket to get into heaven. Right?
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My reply Coach is that I give nothing, I take care of my own because I have no 'moral obligation' to other humans...just like you. The difference Coach is that I don't profess to follow the judeo-christian mythology or any mythology that tells me how to act...there's no 'moral conflict' in my body.
Now again...what did this Jesus say about the poor? You know, Jesus, the guy that you kneel in front of every week, the one use 'body' you eat and 'blood' you drink? The one who's forgiveness you should be praying for since you're a sinner? What are his words about treating the 'least of us'? Did he say that they were doomed to their lowly life or did he 'walks amongst them' and profess a philosophy of loving thy neighbor? What did he say about 'rendering to Ceasar' and what do you think that statement means?
Who inherits the earth Coach?
Who makes it to heaven?
Who's served first?
Either live the 'morality' you preach or go back to being a juiced up, insecure, ignorant, hate spewing, hypocrit, and closet queer. Your exes already know the truth...
I absolutely do. Don't you know the difference between giving FREELY and having someone tell you, you MUST give it up? Seriously Doom, this is a no brainer.
Look, I like being on here, debating and BSing with everyone, on here it's just ball busting and usually can take it or leave it, but it's fun...but I take my giving (not that I'm some Saint, far from it) but when I have the chance and someone or someones family is in need of help, I WILL help, no if and's or buts about it. But when someone tells me that I HAVE to help someone who is perfectly capable of helping themselves and depends on others simply because they are lazy....I will refuse. I'm not rich, but not long ago I wasn't doing so great but all be damned if I was going to the government for help...I bailed myself out with tenacity, will and stubbornness. It's a cop out to depend on the government for absolute help, that's not what they are there for.
Another thing, you don't inherit the kingdom of God through works alone as you might have suggested.
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No dude, that isn't even close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I CHOOSE to give, it's not taken (extorted) from me. I tithe to my church and son's school, I donate to certain charity organizations such as spina bifida and others and also donate my time during the holidays to help the homeless by serving food at a soup kitchen. Last year I donated almost $35,000 of my personal income, not for a write off but because I WANTED TOO.
So...with all of that said, HOW MUCH DID YOU GIVE?
$35,000 :o
most people dont make that in a year!
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The funny thing is that the joke is on the poor. Obama's plan is to tax the middle-class into extinction so that there is only an elite class and a poor class.
This is what the poor simply don't get. ::)
Obama has no interest in helping you. He holds you in utter disdain.
He only wants to create more of you.
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The funny thing is that the joke is on the poor. Obama's plan is to tax the middle-class into extinction so that there is only an elite class and a poor class.
This is what the poor simply don't get. ::)
Obama has no interest in helping you. He holds you in utter disdain.
He only wants to create more of you.
QFT!!
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No dude, that isn't even close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I CHOOSE to give, it's not taken (extorted) from me. I tithe to my church and son's school, I donate to certain charity organizations such as spina bifida and others and also donate my time during the holidays to help the homeless by serving food at a soup kitchen. Last year I donated almost $35,000 of my personal income, not for a write off but because I WANTED TOO.
So...with all of that said, HOW MUCH DID YOU GIVE?
if true, then i applaud you good on you. Also great that you actually go to the soup kitchen to help. I agree with your last post also. However, i dont think this is black and white like people are making it seem, some people cannot work harder, or get ahead. Health care reform is not about that anyway.
i donated no money last year to charity, i volunteered however. I make no money, i am in school and in debt for quite a bit.
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"I am an old Republican. I am religious, yet not a fanatic. I am a free-marketer; yet, I believe in the role of the government as a fair evenhanded referee. I am socially conservative; yet, I believe that my lesbian niece and my gay grandchild should have the full protection of the law and live as free Americans enjoying every aspect of our society with no prejudices and/or restrictions. Nowadays, my political and socio-economic profile would make me a Marxist, not a Republican."
very interesting article
http://www.frumforum.com/how-the-gop-purged-me (ftp://http://www.frumforum.com/how-the-gop-purged-me)
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"I am an old Republican. I am religious, yet not a fanatic. I am a free-marketer; yet, I believe in the role of the government as a fair evenhanded referee. I am socially conservative; yet, I believe that my lesbian niece and my gay grandchild should have the full protection of the law and live as free Americans enjoying every aspect of our society with no prejudices and/or restrictions. Nowadays, my political and socio-economic profile would make me a Marxist, not a Republican."
very interesting article
http://www.frumforum.com/how-the-gop-purged-me (ftp://http://www.frumforum.com/how-the-gop-purged-me)
Yawn.
You look up the word marxist and right next to it is Obama's picture.
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Yawn.
You look up the word marxist and right next to it is Obama's picture.
Yawn???? you're entitled to your opinion but you cant ignore the fact some people in the Republican party are troubled by the extremist wing of it along with the hate/fear talk spread by Beck and Limbaugh. Some of these guys are genuinely concerned you cant dismiss that. :-\
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No dude, that isn't even close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I CHOOSE to give, it's not taken (extorted) from me. I tithe to my church and son's school, I donate to certain charity organizations such as spina bifida and others and also donate my time during the holidays to help the homeless by serving food at a soup kitchen. Last year I donated almost $35,000 of my personal income, not for a write off but because I WANTED TOO.
So...with all of that said, HOW MUCH DID YOU GIVE?
Very commendable, Coach.
'Do good by stealth, and blush to find it fame.' - A. Pope.
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Your only reward in America for busting your ass to provide for your own family is to be taxed more to support those taught to live off the system, eventhough most are able bodied people that can bust their ass to better themselves yet choose not to work at all. Ahhhh, the American dream- paying for everyone elses lazy ass.
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They have to tax working people more because they are eliminating more poorer people from taxation and spending outrageous sums of tax money between wars, international aid, interest on debt and expanded entitlement programs....and the new healthcare program will be underbudgeted so add that on.
We must change the spending in Washington.
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The funny thing is that the joke is on the poor. Obama's plan is to tax the middle-class into extinction so that there is only an elite class and a poor class.
This is what the poor simply don't get. ::)
Obama has no interest in helping you. He holds you in utter disdain.
He only wants to create more of you.
Yup. The people who don't get this are the biggest victims of this. And, ironically, support this the most vehemently.
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Morality as a "reason for doing", is simply another tool being used in this war. Forced morality is the antitheses of true morality -- another idea that escapes many people.
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The funny thing is that the joke is on the poor. Obama's plan is to tax the middle-class into extinction so that there is only an elite class and a poor class.
This is what the poor simply don't get. ::)
Obama has no interest in helping you. He holds you in utter disdain.
He only wants to create more of you.
lol since when is making 250,000 dollars or more middle class ::)
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so true, BOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! great post!!
No one is stopping you from sending more money to the treasury fool.
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333, He's 19, lives with his parents and doesn't have a job. He can't afford the stamp to send it let alone send money to the treasury.
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"I am an old Republican. I am religious, yet not a fanatic. I am a free-marketer; yet, I believe in the role of the government as a fair evenhanded referee. I am socially conservative; yet, I believe that my lesbian niece and my gay grandchild should have the full protection of the law and live as free Americans enjoying every aspect of our society with no prejudices and/or restrictions. Nowadays, my political and socio-economic profile would make me a Marxist, not a Republican."
You can believe all of these things, but you shouldn't be calling yourself an old Republican.
It might be time to redefine yourself.
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if you don't like being taxed so much stop making so much money, problem solved. Maybe start enjoying life more???
The sheer stupidity you display on these boards both astounds and baffles anyone with a functioning cerebral cortex. ::)
lol since when is making 250,000 dollars or more middle class ::)
Keep dreaming. Obama and his ilk have already lowered this mark down to $125,000. And I guarantee it will drop lower still.
Health care is going to raise the taxes for every single American citizen who works in this country. Essentially, that is a tax... on everyone.
Cap and trade (really cap and tax) will literarly destroy this country economically, possibly raising unemployment to 20+%.
Also, Obama has plans for a value added tax. This is a federal tax on every single thing you purchase in life. Yet another tax... for everyone.
So perhaps it's time to get a clue, or do the world a favor by drinking down a bottle of drain cleaner. You'll be one less lazy, moronic Obama-voting douchebag that I'll have to support.
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Instead of our current setup how about we have a voluntary tax system? If you want to pay into the 'welfare' system you can, if you dont then you dont...however, if you fall on hard times you cannot collect it. If you don't want to pay social security taxes then don't but you can't use it when you retire. Don't like the military industrial complex or unlimited funding for the CIA, then don't pay it. Don't want to fund public schools, ok but your kids can't go to it. Don't want to pay taxes for a public HMO option, dont but you can't use it regardless of what happens. Don't want to pay road tax...cool, but you can't use the roads or you pay a toll when you need them. Don't want to bail out the banks?
Let the politicians figure out how to fund programs with the available monies given by the people through voluntary means. This isn't an idealic wish this is sound argument for self government. We have the technology to inact this and reduce the coagulation of power at the top who seek to use your funds to enrich themselves. My god, the politicians would actually have to work at convincing the people instead of letting the Fed print dollars! 8)
All taxation is robbery - Josiah Warren
No man should be compelled to do that which goes against his heart - Cherokee Nation
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You can believe all of these things, but you shouldn't be calling yourself an old Republican.
It might be time to redefine yourself.
" "
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The sheer stupidity you display on these boards both astounds and baffles anyone with a functioning cerebral cortex. ::)
Keep dreaming. Obama and his ilk have already lowered this mark down to $125,000. And I guarantee it will drop lower still.
Health care is going to raise the taxes for every single American citizen who works in this country. Essentially, that is a tax... on everyone.
Cap and trade (really cap and tax) will literarly destroy this country economically, possibly raising unemployment to 20+%.
Also, Obama has plans for a value added tax. This is a federal tax on every single thing you purchase in life. Yet another tax... for everyone.
So perhaps it's time to get a clue, or do the world a favor by drinking down a bottle of drain cleaner. You'll be one less lazy, moronic Obama-voting douchebag that I'll have to support.
hahahah elitist fool, and since when was making 125,000 a year middle class? Most middle class who make 20 - 40 thousand a year get a lot of there money back they pay in taxes. You rich people rather have the lesser or people with less money dead! Jewish to the core.
Also coach just calls anyone who disagrees with him or someone who makes a good point young, stupid or lazy also likes to ask how much money they donated, all of which has nothing to do with the argument just to distract from him not actually answering the question.
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hahahah elitist fool, and since when was making 125,000 a year middle class? Most middle class who make 20 - 40 thousand a year get a lot of there money back they pay in taxes. You rich people rather have the lesser or people with less money dead! Jewish to the core.
Also coach just calls anyone who disagrees with him or someone who makes a good point young, stupid or lazy also likes to ask how much money they donated, all of which has nothing to do with the argument just to distract from him not actually answering the question.
in NYC 125K is barely middle class when taxes are taken into account. A family of 4 cant live on that in manhattan.
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You know that NYC and LA are the huge exceptions as far as living expense is concerned and you know I do not agree with you on the "average" salary comparisons you've presented before.
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hahahah elitist fool, and since when was making 125,000 a year middle class? Most middle class who make 20 - 40 thousand a year get a lot of there money back they pay in taxes. You rich people rather have the lesser or people with less money dead! Jewish to the core.
A moron and an Anti-Semite to boot. :D
Newsflash: I'm not Jewish. However, it is nice to know that you liberals, you so-called understanding, tolerant, and all inclusive imbeciles continue to be the biggest racists in the world. :-*
EDIT: I've gotten word that you're some idiotic teenager living with mommy and daddy.
Message received.
Real life is simply going to destroy you, little boy.
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"I am an old Republican. I am religious, yet not a fanatic. I am a free-marketer; yet, I believe in the role of the government as a fair evenhanded referee. I am socially conservative; yet, I believe that my lesbian niece and my gay grandchild should have the full protection of the law and live as free Americans enjoying every aspect of our society with no prejudices and/or restrictions. Nowadays, my political and socio-economic profile would make me a Marxist, not a Republican."
You can believe all of these things, but you shouldn't be calling yourself an old Republican.
It might be time to redefine yourself.
" "
That's not my job. That's for you to think about.
Just be honest with yourself and the rest will fall into place.
Personally, I don't know how anyone can live from day to day without knowing with absolute certainty who they are and what they believe. ???
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hahahah elitist fool, and since when was making 125,000 a year middle class? Most middle class who make 20 - 40 thousand a year get a lot of there money back they pay in taxes. You rich people rather have the lesser or people with less money dead! Jewish to the core.
Also coach just calls anyone who disagrees with him or someone who makes a good point young, stupid or lazy also likes to ask how much money they donated, all of which has nothing to do with the argument just to distract from him not actually answering the question.
Sorry dude, but middle class is minimum $80,000/year $20,000 a year !?! that's called poverty.
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Sorry dude, but middle class is minimum $80,000/year $20,000 a year !?! that's called poverty.
I'm seriously having a hard time trying to comprehend the thought process of people who think along the same lines as jtsunami.
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I'm seriously having a hard time trying to comprehend the thought process of people who think along the same lines as jtsunami.
Just watch MSNBC, an Obama speech, Romper Room, Sesame Street, or any other brainless crap and you will get a good idea.
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According to the Social Security administrator, the medium American wage for 2008 was 41,000.00. This means the middle class occupy +/- $10,000 on each side. Lower middle class @ 30,000.00 and upper middle class in the $50 to 100,000 range. By the government statistics "wealthy" would start around $125,000.00. Now this is the medium for all Americans regardless of regional cost of living differences. Obviously $125,000 a year means a great deal more in Lousiana then it does in New York.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html
It does tend to show a serious discrepancy in wealth accumulation because adjusted for 2008 inflation the $40,000 would've been considered 'lower class' status in the 1950s and 1960s. What this means is that your parents were able to do more with their money (at the medium) range with one working partner then you can do now with two. You can also contrast the personal family debt levels between then and now and see a mathematically smooth function by Big Business, Big Government and the Federal Reserbver to deplete the average American's savings/wealth through the increasing of the money supply. Inflation is the greatest enemy of the common people and the greatest weapon of the elites and politicians. It makes you "feel" wealthier but actually diminshes your purchaing power.
Ironically, in the 1950s you could buy a loaf of bread for a quarter (90%silver in pre 1965 coins). Today, that same silver quarter is worth $3.00 (silver content alone) and that will, ironically, buy you a loaf of bread. What does that mean? Let's take a look.
There are three variables in that transaction.
1) the seller's goods (bread)
2) the buyers goods (silver)
3) the value of the currency (amount marked on the coin)
In 1950 the .12grams of silver (amount in a pre1965 Quarter) was worth to the seller the amount of materials + labor it took to bring that one loaf of bread to market. In 2010, that same transaction with a silver quarter still holds true except that we have a "currency" (Federal reserve note/coin) that acts as an intermedieary. That FRN has a value assigned to it through a complicated process that continually enriches the elite bankers and continually erodes the value of FRNs you have in your wallet or savings account.
A 2010 quarter has only about 5% of the purchasing power of the 1950's quarter yet the actual commodities changing hands (silver for bread) is consistent. That 60 year disparity has been achieved by increasing the amount of quarters 'currency' in cirulation as well as removing the silver content 'the desired attribute' from the coin.
What this means is that whoever controls the circulation of currency (private Fed bank) plus the lawful composition of coinage (congress) have conspired against the American public for decades.
In a "free" market you can take your silver, or goat, or grains and exchange them with another person for bread, gold, wine, cows, whatever. The transaction happens instantly and both parties leave more or less satisfied. there is no continuing of debt or third party exchange meeded to balance everything out. In the 2010 market you give your FRNs to a seller. These notes come to you (the public) with a debt attached in the form of interest payments. By trading your FRNs to BestBuy for that TV you are giving that seller private debt in exchange for a physical commodity. Now that seller is forced to exchange that FRN debt to another seller to 'reap' the benefit of the primary transaction. We all play hot-potato with the private debt. The debt itself can never be repaid by the American public because the debt requires the same FRNs for payment, this means we have to borrow the same currency to repay the debt, which comes with more debt, which means we have to borrow more...ad infinitum.
The more americans borrow currency to live the more currency needs to be available so the Congress raises the legal debt cailing each year and the Fed Prints the FRNs...this increase of supply dilutes the FRNs you're holding right now and drives up the cost of living. This type of economic culture encourages spending (getting rid of FRNs as fast as possible since they lose value over time) and discourages savings. Your 5% interest bearing savings account will never keep up with the real yearly inflation cost. This means that Americans are almost consripted to have to spend.
Change your thoughts and you change your life. Debt is slavery.
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CHARLOTTE - Even by President Obama's loquacious standards, an answer he gave here on health care Friday was a doozy.
Toward the end of a question-and-answer session with workers at an advanced battery technology manufacturer, a woman named Doris stood to ask the president whether it was a "wise decision to add more taxes to us with the health care" package.
"We are over-taxed as it is," Doris said bluntly.
Obama started out feisty. "Well, let's talk about that, because this is an area where there's been just a whole lot of misinformation, and I'm going to have to work hard over the next several months to clean up a lot of the misapprehensions that people have," the president said.
He then spent the next 17 minutes and 12 seconds lulling the crowd into a daze. His discursive answer - more than 2,500 words long -- wandered from topic to topic, including commentary on the deficit, pay-as-you-go rules passed by Congress, Congressional Budget Office reports on Medicare waste, COBRA coverage, the Recovery Act and Federal Medical Assistance Percentages (he referred to this last item by its inside-the-Beltway name, "F-Map"). He talked about the notion of eliminating foreign aid (not worth it, he said). He invoked Warren Buffett, earmarks and the payroll tax that funds Medicare (referring to it, in fluent Washington lingo, as "FICA").
Always fond of lists, Obama ticked off his approach to health care -- twice. "Number one is that we are the only -- we have been, up until last week, the only advanced country that allows 50 million of its citizens to not have any health insurance," he said.
A few minutes later he got to the next point, which seemed awfully similar to the first. "Number two, you don't know who might end up being in that situation," he said, then carried on explaining further still.
"Point number three is that the way insurance companies have been operating, even if you've got health insurance you don't always know what you got, because what has been increasingly the practice is that if you're not lucky enough to work for a big company that is a big pool, that essentially is almost a self-insurer, then what's happening is, is you're going out on the marketplace, you may be buying insurance, you think you're covered, but then when you get sick they decide to drop the insurance right when you need it," Obama continued, winding on with the answer.
Halfway through, an audience member on the riser yawned.
But Obama wasn't finished. He had a "final point," before starting again with another list -- of three points.
"What we said is, number one, we'll have the basic principle that everybody gets coverage," he said, before launching into the next two points, for a grand total of seven.
His wandering approach might not matter if Obama weren't being billed as the chief salesman of the health-care overhaul. Public opinion on the bill remains divided, and Democratic officials are planning to send Obama into the country to persuade wary citizens that it will work for them in the long run.
It was not evident that he changed any minds at Friday's event. The audience sat politely, but people in the back of the room began to wander off.
Even Obama seemed to recognize that he had gone on too long. He apologized -- in keeping with the spirit of the moment, not once, but twice. "Boy, that was a long answer. I'm sorry," he said, drawing nervous laughter that sounded somewhat like relief as he wrapped up.
But, he said: "I hope I answered your question."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/04/obamas-17-minute-2500-word-res.html
Obama has to be the biggest fool of a president the US has ever had. Bar none. He brings absolutely nothing to the table.
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Obama has to be the biggest fool of a president the US has ever had. Bar none. He brings absolutely nothing to the table.
He thinks he can play basketball.....I have an open challenge out to him.....I would break his ankles with a crossover and throw all his shots in the weeds!
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He brings a war on the middle class taxpayer and anyone who works. Check this gem out.
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He thinks he can play basketball.....I have an open challenge out to him.....I would break his ankles with a crossover and throw all his shots in the weeds!
He strictly appeals only to the "black folk". That's why Opra loves him so much.
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He strictly appeals only to the "black folk". That's why Opra loves him so much.
Only if they are unemployed. I cant imagine and working person supporting this idiot.
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Hey Geniuses!!! (Coach, Body, and Danny)
THE WOMAN DID NOT SAY OBAMA WAS PAYING HER MORTGAGE!
God Damn you're all idiots.
She said, she didn't feel she would "HAVE TO WORRY" about those things with Obama becoming President.
Stop fucking spinning it.
She did not say, on any level, that Obama was paying for it.
Fuck you guys for outright lies.
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How about this one TU?
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Obama owns congress and the white house.
Despite FOX working 24/7, he just passed healthcare and the stim bill. The DOW is about to hit 14,000. his approval rating is at 49% today.
He's in pretty decent shape. If mis-labeling a 2-year old clip from an Obama supporter is the far right's current move, it shows they're looking back, and not looking fwd.
Obama sure isn't looking back at 2007 or 2008. He's looking fwd to his agenda. And whether you feel his legislation/moves are very good or very bad... he's getting shit done from his 'to do' list. The far-right isn't getting much done these days. Fundraising sucks. Their top voices are flakes like Palin and Michael Steele and michelle Bachmann. They should be earning TONS of money - and they're not.
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Yes, those are a couple of idiots... Straight Ghetto bitches.
Leaches on society obviously.
Doesn't change the fact that the video that you guys keep posting and the context in which you use it is slanted at best and an outright lie at worst.
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240 a/k/a/ Julio - are you going to vote for Obama in 2012?
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I voted Bob Barr in 2008.
I'll hopefully get to vote Thune or Pawlenty in 2012.
I'm not gonna vote Palin, sorry. She supported capping emissions. She supported the Bailout Bill. She supported the Amnesty Bill. Her state had the highest debt ratio when she left office. She's a spend happy lib who loves her guns. That's it.
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What if we have a Getbig.com petition to write you in for President in 2012?
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TU: What about this Gem?
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TU: What about this Gem?
Typical ghetto bitch with no job, no life, no education looking for free bees from the US government.
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Would you hit it?
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Typical ghetto bitch with no job, no life, no education looking for free bees from the US government.
Quite obviously a parody.
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That's not my job. That's for you to think about.
Just be honest with yourself and the rest will fall into place.
Personally, I don't know how anyone can live from day to day without knowing with absolute certainty who they are and what they believe. ???
" A quotation is the repetition of one expression as part of another one, particularly when the quoted expression is well-known or explicitly attributed (as by citation) to its original source, and it is indicated by (punctuated with) quotation marks." ::) ::) ::) Just to make sure you finally understand that wasn't my point of view.
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Quite obviously a parody.
How do you know that?
Is this a parody?
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How do you know that?
You're kidding, right?
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TU: What about this Gem?
The fact that some delinquent like this supports a polotician should clue you in pretty quick to what the politician stands for.
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Hey Geniuses!!! (Coach, Body, and Danny)
THE WOMAN DID NOT SAY OBAMA WAS PAYING HER MORTGAGE!
God Damn you're all idiots.
She said, she didn't feel she would "HAVE TO WORRY" about those things with Obama becoming President.
Stop fucking spinning it.
She did not say, on any level, that Obama was paying for it.
Fuck you guys for outright lies.
Unless you're attempting to be sarcastic...I have no clue how to respond to your post. But I'll play anyway... The woman was implying that she would not have to worry about paying her mortgage...and there is room for interpretation there, maybe she meant she will get a job and given the shitty state of our economy at the time it would not surprise me if she was unemployed already....or maybe she was thinking the government will take over her mortgage or whatever... something like that in which case she's still a complete idiot IMO. you decide .... ;)
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Unless you're attempting to be sarcastic...I have no clue how to respond to your post. But I'll play anyway... The woman was implying that she would not have to worry about paying her mortgage...and there is room for interpretation there, maybe she meant she will get a job and given the shitty state of our economy at the time it would not surprise me if she was unemployed already....or maybe she was thinking the government will take over her mortgage or whatever... something like that in which case she's still a complete idiot IMO. you decide .... ;)
Not really, Obama is already giving her free healthcare and now if she defaults on her mortgage, the taxpayer is going to fund the mortgage rehab plan. Also, under the crap & tax plan of Obama, low income people get subsidies to offset the electric rates skyrocketing as Obama said they would.
so actually, its we people who go to work and try to maintain a middle class lifestlye that are the idiots, not Peggy, Julio, or Henrietta, since they are going to get our wealth redistributed to themselves. ;D
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She did say, "Is it too late to vote for the white guy?"
That shit was hilarious.
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According to the Social Security administrator, the medium American wage for 2008 was 41,000.00. This means the middle class occupy +/- $10,000 on each side. Lower middle class @ 30,000.00 and upper middle class in the $50 to 100,000 range. By the government statistics "wealthy" would start around $125,000.00. Now this is the medium for all Americans regardless of regional cost of living differences. Obviously $125,000 a year means a great deal more in Lousiana then it does in New York.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html
that is all we need, argument over, coach and desolate can try and convince everyone here that the regular American makes 80 K plus a year, but the facts don't back up their arguments. The reason coach and desolate want to convince all the middle class people to be against this bill is because they don't want their taxes higher, they are simply looking out for their own asses.
jt
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that is all we need, argument over, coach and desolate can try and convince everyone here that the regular American makes 80 K plus a year, but the facts don't back up their arguments. The reason coach and desolate want to convince all the middle class people to be against this bill is because they don't want their taxes higher, they are simply looking out for their own asses.
jt
How about this....The "wealthy" get taxed so much that they turn into "middle class" now who is going to foot the bill for the extra money needed. The American dream is being disolved as we speak. No one will want to make more money in America due to the government taking so much of it away that you might as well not made it in the first place.
I live close to communities that all they do is take advantage of these government programs and still do nothing to improve themselves. It is ridiculous that we keep giving them handouts and they do nothing to improve their living situation; just say "Thank you, may I have another"? BS all the way around.
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Even if you ascribe no moral value to helping the less fortunate, the rich have an instrumental obligation to pay a larger share of taxes because the state does more to protect their "right" to be rich. The state's law enforcement apparatus is proportionally much more important to an individual making 300k/year than to an individual making 30k/year, due to the value of their respective property that the state protects through its monopoly on violence. Hope this helps.
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How about this....The "wealthy" get taxed so much that they turn into "middle class" now who is going to foot the bill for the extra money needed. The American dream is being disolved as we speak. No one will want to make more money in America due to the government taking so much of it away that you might as well not made it in the first place.
I live close to communities that all they do is take advantage of these government programs and still do nothing to improve themselves. It is ridiculous that we keep giving them handouts and they do nothing to improve their living situation; just say "Thank you, may I have another"? BS all the way around.
I dont know much, but thats bullshit, because no one is gonna say, I dont want to make more money if your going to take more... Even if the gov takes more, you still have more money in your pocket. Who is gonna say, "No, im not gonna make more, even if I pocket more, just because the government is going to take a higher percentage from me?"
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I dont know much, but thats bullshit, because no one is gonna say, I dont want to make more money if your going to take more... Even if the gov takes more, you still have more money in your pocket. Who is gonna say, "No, im not gonna make more, even if I pocket more, just because the government is going to take a higher percentage from me?"
Everyone is complaining now, but people are worried that the taxes will get so bad that 70% of your income will be taken. So, you make $100,000, but only get to keep 30%. Is that fair?
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Am I supposed to believe the stats coming from an administration that's damn near bankrupt?? Are you serious??
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When you add up the cumulative effect of cap & trade, VAT, health care, end of the bush tax cuts, etc, there is no other conclusion other than that this admn is on tax hike crack.
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I'm not reading through the whole thread but just the first few pages ;D
OBAMA= one term Pres. for sure (THANK GOD ;))
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When you add up the cumulative effect of cap & trade, VAT, health care, end of the bush tax cuts, etc, there is no other conclusion other than that this admn is on tax hike crack.
maybe for the rich, not for the middle class 30 - 50 k a year, you know the regular working american. Also many people on here have been making a mistake, probably I'll informed and actually this is what it is called, you have been calling it "cap and tax" it's real name is Cap and Trade, just letting you know you have been making a grammar mistake.
jt
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Did you ever see this? Wake the hell up dude and drop the kneepads. Obama is a thief, a liar, a fraud, a marxist, an incompetent, an empty suit, and NWO shill.
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Am I supposed to believe the stats coming from an administration that's damn near bankrupt?? Are you serious??
All the 'stats' and 'facts' in the world couldn't influence your 'steroided' brain. They are all part of a vast conspiracy to defraud you from your money! Only you and your friends at Fox news have the truth!
You know what you believe to be true and that's all that matters...what you 'believe'. I can see why you make such a good robot, I mean christian...
In the meantime why don't you choke on this one from proverbs 24:21 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
That means Obama, Social Security and the current tax setup is God's will. Now stfu and pay your taxes sinner. ;D
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All the 'stats' and 'facts' in the world couldn't influence your 'steroided' brain. They are all part of a vast conspiracy to defraud you from your money! Only you and your friends at Fox news have the truth!
You know what you believe to be true and that's all that matters...what you 'believe'. I can see why you make such a good robot, I mean christian...
In the meantime why don't you choke on this one from proverbs 24:21 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
That means Obama, Social Security and the current tax setup is God's will. Now stfu and pay your taxes sinner. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hahahah, this is a perfect example of the type of people who want the successful to fund their lazy asses.
Why doesn't this skank enroll in a community college, get a job and make something of herself?
Prob a relative of wiggs.
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All the 'stats' and 'facts' in the world couldn't influence your 'steroided' brain. They are all part of a vast conspiracy to defraud you from your money! Only you and your friends at Fox news have the truth!
You know what you believe to be true and that's all that matters...what you 'believe'. I can see why you make such a good robot, I mean christian...
In the meantime why don't you choke on this one from proverbs 24:21 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
That means Obama, Social Security and the current tax setup is God's will. Now stfu and pay your taxes sinner. ;D
beautiful
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CHARLOTTE - Even by President Obama's loquacious standards, an answer he gave here on health care Friday was a doozy.
Toward the end of a question-and-answer session with workers at an advanced battery technology manufacturer, a woman named Doris stood to ask the president whether it was a "wise decision to add more taxes to us with the health care" package.
"We are over-taxed as it is," Doris said bluntly.
Obama started out feisty. "Well, let's talk about that, because this is an area where there's been just a whole lot of misinformation, and I'm going to have to work hard over the next several months to clean up a lot of the misapprehensions that people have," the president said.
He then spent the next 17 minutes and 12 seconds lulling the crowd into a daze. His discursive answer - more than 2,500 words long -- wandered from topic to topic, including commentary on the deficit, pay-as-you-go rules passed by Congress, Congressional Budget Office reports on Medicare waste, COBRA coverage, the Recovery Act and Federal Medical Assistance Percentages (he referred to this last item by its inside-the-Beltway name, "F-Map"). He talked about the notion of eliminating foreign aid (not worth it, he said). He invoked Warren Buffett, earmarks and the payroll tax that funds Medicare (referring to it, in fluent Washington lingo, as "FICA").
Always fond of lists, Obama ticked off his approach to health care -- twice. "Number one is that we are the only -- we have been, up until last week, the only advanced country that allows 50 million of its citizens to not have any health insurance," he said.
A few minutes later he got to the next point, which seemed awfully similar to the first. "Number two, you don't know who might end up being in that situation," he said, then carried on explaining further still.
"Point number three is that the way insurance companies have been operating, even if you've got health insurance you don't always know what you got, because what has been increasingly the practice is that if you're not lucky enough to work for a big company that is a big pool, that essentially is almost a self-insurer, then what's happening is, is you're going out on the marketplace, you may be buying insurance, you think you're covered, but then when you get sick they decide to drop the insurance right when you need it," Obama continued, winding on with the answer.
Halfway through, an audience member on the riser yawned.
But Obama wasn't finished. He had a "final point," before starting again with another list -- of three points.
"What we said is, number one, we'll have the basic principle that everybody gets coverage," he said, before launching into the next two points, for a grand total of seven.
His wandering approach might not matter if Obama weren't being billed as the chief salesman of the health-care overhaul. Public opinion on the bill remains divided, and Democratic officials are planning to send Obama into the country to persuade wary citizens that it will work for them in the long run.
It was not evident that he changed any minds at Friday's event. The audience sat politely, but people in the back of the room began to wander off.
Even Obama seemed to recognize that he had gone on too long. He apologized -- in keeping with the spirit of the moment, not once, but twice. "Boy, that was a long answer. I'm sorry," he said, drawing nervous laughter that sounded somewhat like relief as he wrapped up.
But, he said: "I hope I answered your question."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/04/obamas-17-minute-2500-word-res.html
typical politician shit, when in doubt bore the shit out of people so they'll just slowly leave without really accomplishing anything of value.
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Even if you ascribe no moral value to helping the less fortunate, the rich have an instrumental obligation to pay a larger share of taxes because the state does more to protect their "right" to be rich. The state's law enforcement apparatus is proportionally much more important to an individual making 300k/year than to an individual making 30k/year, due to the value of their respective property that the state protects through its monopoly on violence. Hope this helps.
x2!
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All the 'stats' and 'facts' in the world couldn't influence your 'steroided' brain. They are all part of a vast conspiracy to defraud you from your money! Only you and your friends at Fox news have the truth!
You know what you believe to be true and that's all that matters...what you 'believe'. I can see why you make such a good robot, I mean christian...
In the meantime why don't you choke on this one from proverbs 24:21 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
That means Obama, Social Security and the current tax setup is God's will. Now stfu and pay your taxes sinner. ;D
So you believe SS and the other government ran programs are doing just fine? Your liberal mind is as skewed as Obamas.
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Every brain dead liberal moron should see this site and explain to me how we pay this off:
www.usdebtclock.org
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You fucking idiots complain that he uses the teleprompter too much....lol.
After the fucking idiot you had in the White House before Obama you nimcumpoots have no room to talk. If that's the best you can do it's pretty pathetic.
You fucks are done for a while and the Dems are waiting for you idiots to try and repeal this bill, cause you'll look like morons. There's already a memo out for repubs to take credit for key portions of the bill that they ALL voted against...LOL.
Republicans are so predictable...
kia will never win the olympia.
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Every brain dead liberal moron should see this site and explain to me how we pay this off:
www.usdebtclock.org
irony alert
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Every brain dead liberal moron should see this site and explain to me how we pay this off:
www.usdebtclock.org
JUST FUCKING WOW.
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JUST FUCKING WOW.
What the size of the debt?
The fact that people think SS, Medicare, Medicade are doing great?
That people think we need more govt spending and debt financed "stimulus"?
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Every brain dead liberal moron should see this site and explain to me how we pay this off:
www.usdebtclock.org
Please provide your assessment of how "liberal" vs. "conservative" presidents have handled the national debt since Gerald Ford.
thanks in advance
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Please provide your assessment of how "liberal" vs. "conservative" presidents have handled the national debt since Gerald Ford.
thanks in advance
I'm not talking about "presidents". I'm talking about people who want more govt spending and think we can afford to spend more money on social welfare programs.
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I'm not talking about "presidents". I'm talking about people who want more govt spending and think we can afford to spend more money on social welfare programs.
setting aside for a moment the inherent value of social programs, reagan, bush, and bush jr. cut them. clinton expanded them.
maybe social programs arent the problem???????????? :D
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Since its the congress who actually spends the money, why not put a graph of spending in terms of which party controlled congress as a contrast?
By my analysis, since Pelosi has taken over the house in 2006, spending has absolutely skyrocketed.
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Yes, it was surely Pelosi who submitted Bush's record 3.1 trillion budget in 2008, which included cuts to social programs yet still managed to run a deficit of 400 billion ::)
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Yes, it was surely Pelosi who submitted Bush's record 3.1 trillion budget in 2008, which included cuts to social programs yet still managed to run a deficit of 400 billion ::)
SOURCE FOR CLAIMS?
BTW - WE ARE NOW RUNNING 1.75 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICITS.
DO TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT?
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SOURCE FOR CLAIMS?
BTW - WE ARE NOW RUNNING 1.75 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICITS.
DO TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT?
http://tinyurl.com/yhyerxr
Obama has been garbage as far as I'm concerned, but many of his ideals are correct
look at any fiscally viable first-world country. the path to fiscal viability in this day and age isn't cutting social programs; besides going against the ideals of enlightened democracy, it enhances social stratification, which is instrumentally bad for any society as evident historically. the path to fiscal viability involves progressive taxation and avoiding decade long wars halfway across the world that have zero geopolitical value.
again, this formula is true of every fiscally viable first world country that exists today. American hegemony and, by extention, American exceptionalism are obsolete, its time to wake up and smell the coffee.
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http://tinyurl.com/yhyerxr
Obama has been garbage as far as I'm concerned, but many of his ideals are correct
look at any fiscally viable first-world country. the path to fiscal viability in this day and age isn't cutting social programs; besides going against the ideals of enlightened democracy, it enhances social stratification, which is instrumentally bad for any society as evident historically. the path to fiscal viability involves progressive taxation and avoiding decade long wars halfway across the world that have zero geopolitical value.
again, this formula is true of every fiscally viable first world country that exists today. American hegemony and, by extention, American exceptionalism are obsolete, its time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Look, I was thrown of freerepublic for bashing bush so much on his reckless fiscal insanity and was no fan of him either. I am more of the views of Ron Paul on a lot of these issues and think we need to get rid of both parties since both are awful and use a few issues like guns, god, and gays to divide the people.
On money matters, both are taxing and screwing us royally.
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so we can agree on elements of true fiscal conservatism then, at least
unfortunately it doesn't seem to be an "option" right now
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(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktocsqVh7e1qa49tx.png)
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stuart, we could use a mind like yours on the political board!
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(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ktocsqVh7e1qa49tx.png)
Help me out with this. The first order of the President is to protect his country. If I'm reading this correctly Bush did just that. Obama on the other hand if failing at protecting the country and leaving us vulnerable and weakening our defense.
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I'm sorry Coach... "How" is Obama "failing" at protecting this country?
I don't recall a successful terrorist plot occurring yet.
How did Bush "succeed" for that matter? Did I forget who was President on 9/11/2001 or did you?
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I'm sorry Coach... "How" is Obama "failing" at protecting this country?
I don't recall a successful terrorist plot occurring yet.
How did Bush "succeed" for that matter? Did I forget who was President on 9/11/2001 or did you?
Should I remind you the preceding president had BinLaden at least 10 times in his sights and let his go? USS Cole, Twin Towers, US Embassy Attacks, etc, etc and NOTHING was done. Obama is making enemies with our allies and friends with dictators and enemies plus just this week, he's seeking nuclear disarmament for our country. He is weakening our national defense. He is nothing less than a traitor to our country.
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Coach ...are you out of your mind?????????? A traitor??? For what ...for actually killing or capturing more enemies in the first year than W did in 8?? You said yourself ...W had Bin Laden in his sights ..why exactly did he let him escape? I'm trying to find an answer to that one yet....Dude you 're starting to sound a little out there calling the President of your country a traitor....just sayin. ;)
ps. and just in case you are referring to Clinton , let's not forget the Twin Towers happened under Bush and not Clinton.
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Should I remind you the preceding president had BinLaden at least 10 times in his sights and let his go? USS Cole, Twin Towers, US Embassy Attacks, etc, etc and NOTHING was done. Obama is making enemies with our allies and friends with dictators and enemies plus just this week, he's seeking nuclear disarmament for our country. He is weakening our national defense. He is nothing less than a traitor to our country.
You are certainly not the brightest brick in the pile are you. Nuclear disarmament? Really? You have been listening to Limbaugh way too much dude. In no way are we going to get rid of our nukes, we're going to keep them, but not use them. There's nothing wrong with that and in no way does it mean we're going to be in a weakened state, we still have the nukes they are not going anywhere. Our national defense is not solely rested on the shoulders of our nuclear capability, which as I've explained, isn't going anywhere.
Sometimes it really amazes me that people actually think the way you do. I wonder if it's just a joke to get a rise out of people or if you are sincere in your beliefs. You've been too consistent in your sensationalism for me to believe that it's a joke.
Just fucking sad.
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I didn't read the entire thread, but I thought this article was very interesting and I agree with it, generally:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704896104575140063408610580.html
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stuart, we could use a mind like yours on the political board!
I don't have a ton of time to browse and post but feel free to pm me with any threads that you'd like me to contribute to
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START TReaty Strategic Arms REDUCTION Treaty. Keyword REDUCTION. 8)
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You are certainly not the brightest brick in the pile are you. Nuclear disarmament? Really? You have been listening to Limbaugh way too much dude. In no way are we going to get rid of our nukes, we're going to keep them, but not use them. There's nothing wrong with that and in no way does it mean we're going to be in a weakened state, we still have the nukes they are not going anywhere. Our national defense is not solely rested on the shoulders of our nuclear capability, which as I've explained, isn't going anywhere.
Sometimes it really amazes me that people actually think the way you do. I wonder if it's just a joke to get a rise out of people or if you are sincere in your beliefs. You've been too consistent in your sensationalism for me to believe that it's a joke.
Just fucking sad.
;D ;D
http://us.mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/AnyArticle/p.rdt?URL=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63800B20100409 (http://us.mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/AnyArticle/p.rdt?URL=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63800B20100409)
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You are certainly not the brightest brick in the pile are you. Nuclear disarmament? Really? You have been listening to Limbaugh way too much dude. In no way are we going to get rid of our nukes, we're going to keep them, but not use them. There's nothing wrong with that and in no way does it mean we're going to be in a weakened state, we still have the nukes they are not going anywhere. Our national defense is not solely rested on the shoulders of our nuclear capability, which as I've explained, isn't going anywhere.
Sometimes it really amazes me that people actually think the way you do. I wonder if it's just a joke to get a rise out of people or if you are sincere in your beliefs. You've been too consistent in your sensationalism for me to believe that it's a joke.
Just fucking sad.
MMmm, it's been in the news almost everyday this week :-\.
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MMmm, it's been in the news almost everyday this week :-\.
Where are you getting your news from? Honestly, what do you listen to , what do you read? I'm curious, straight question. And dont give me the "I read everything and anything I get my hands on" Sarah Palin type of answer. ;D
"Under the new plan, the U.S. promises not to use nuclear weapons against countries that don't have them. The policy would not apply to states like North Korea and Iran, however, because of their refusal to cooperate with the international community on nonproliferation standards".
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MMmm, it's been in the news almost everyday this week :-\.
It hasn't been on any "real" news that I've seen. MSNBC and Fox are not real news.
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Coach ...are you out of your mind?????????? A traitor??? For what ...for actually killing or capturing more enemies in the first year than W did in 8?? You said yourself ...W had Bin Laden in his sights ..why exactly did he let him escape? I'm trying to find an answer to that one yet....Dude you 're starting to sound a little out there calling the President of your country a traitor....just sayin. ;)
ps. and just in case you are referring to Clinton , let's not forget the Twin Towers happened under Bush and not Clinton.
Did you forget the bombing in 1993?
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Where are you getting your news from? Honestly, what do you listen to , what do you read? I'm curious, straight question. And dont give me the "I read everything and anything I get my hands on" Sarah Palin type of answer. ;D
"Under the new plan, the U.S. promises not to use nuclear weapons against countries that don't have them. The policy would not apply to states like North Korea and Iran, however, because of their refusal to cooperate with the international community on nonproliferation standards".
What if say we were bombed with a massive chemical, EMP, or biological attack?
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But but.... we is president now!!!!
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Did you forget the bombing in 1993?
My mistake. I guess when you talk about the Twin Towers in general people are thinking 9/11. You are correct.
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" A quotation is the repetition of one expression as part of another one, particularly when the quoted expression is well-known or explicitly attributed (as by citation) to its original source, and it is indicated by (punctuated with) quotation marks." ::) ::) ::) Just to make sure you finally understand that wasn't my point of view.
::) ::) ::)
Please don't lie. You were attempting to get me to define you.
Clearly, you have numerous conflicts about who you are and what you believe.
If you've had a change of belief on some issues, well, that's fine. But don't imply that the party is moving away from you. It has not changed despite numerous attempts from pseudo-conservatives like John McCain.
Just to make sure you finally understand that wasn't my point of view. :-*
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I love it when people actually believe that this guy doesn't want to dismantle our entire nuclear arsenal. :D
For chrissakes, he doesn't even believe in the Second Amendment. ::) And that is just guns. Can you imagine how he feels about nukes?
What one has to understand in studying Obama is that he and 99% of his administration hate this country and everything it stands for.
The man simply loathes The United States of America.
Loathes it.
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I don't minding paying a little extra if it means the less fortunate have access to health care
Wish everyone thought this way. Most people only give a shit about themselves, yet these are the people who go to Church on Sunday, or at least claim to. Definition of hypocrisy.
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Wish everyone thought this way. Most people only give a shit about themselves, yet these are the people who go to Church on Sunday, or at least claim to. Definition of hypocrisy.
What part of the health care scam are you guys seriously missing? Obama is going to absolutely RAPE EVERYONE in tax increases to pay for something that no one knows anything about. The poor and middle class are going to be even more f**ked than they already are!
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What part of the health care scam are you guys seriously missing? Obama is going to absolutely RAPE EVERYONE in tax increases to pay for something that no one knows anything about. The poor and middle class are going to be even more f**ked than they already are!
haha whatever rush and beck say ;D Only reason you try and convince people of middle and lower class that their taxes will go up ( a lie by the way) is because you don't want your own taxes to do up because you are in the upper class.
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We aren't overtaxed. Look at other countries in the west. We get off fucking easy...Yes the rich pay more but you have a moral obligation to pay more if you make more. It's not like they get taxed into the poor house and these dirty motherfuckers move and hide money anyway. ::)
right...next smart people will have a moral obligation to hand over a few test points if they score a 100 so that the guy getting 55 can get a 60 and pass ::)
when u take away the insentive to work hard and be better than everyone else....you take away desire to do jack shit....good luck convincing smart rich chemists and virologists to come up with cutting edge drugs then
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right...next smart people will have a moral obligation to hand over a few test points if they score a 100 so that the guy getting 55 can get a 60 and pass ::)
when u take away the insentive to work hard and be better than everyone else....you take away desire to do jack shit....good luck convincing smart rich chemists and virologists to come up with cutting edge drugs then
so your saying money is their motivation? That really isn't much of a motivation. When you were a kid you said I want to be a rocket scientist, a astronaut, a football player, not because of how much money you would make, back then you didn't even comprehend the money part of the equation, that is just what you imagined being passionate about. You should be passionate and interested in your work, that will create innovative and new things, not more money incentives.
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Even if you ascribe no moral value to helping the less fortunate, the rich have an instrumental obligation to pay a larger share of taxes because the state does more to protect their "right" to be rich. The state's law enforcement apparatus is proportionally much more important to an individual making 300k/year than to an individual making 30k/year, due to the value of their respective property that the state protects through its monopoly on violence. Hope this helps.
:D