Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums

Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Benny B on April 13, 2011, 10:01:13 PM



Title: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Benny B on April 13, 2011, 10:01:13 PM
MSNBC host Cenk Uygur shares some of the radical positions of potential 2012 Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoq_-L226rY


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: 240 is Back on April 13, 2011, 10:44:50 PM
nutty and scatterbrained?  sure.  nobody denies that.


Has she been consistently conservative and small spending for 35 years?  Yessir. 
Will she slash the huge obama spanding?  You betcha.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Benny B on April 14, 2011, 06:24:30 AM
nutty and scatterbrained?  sure.  nobody denies that.


Has she been consistently conservative and small spending for 35 years?  Yessir. 
Will she slash the huge obama spanding?  You betcha.
Does she have ZERO CHANCE of becoming president? YESSIR.  ::)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on April 14, 2011, 06:26:46 AM
 ::)  ::)

Yawn - yet a communist, racist, incompetent, islamist, grifter, thief, sleeper cell marxist, ghetto hood rat, thug, skell, and anti-american terrorist sympathizing pofs like obama did.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: 240 is Back on April 14, 2011, 06:28:43 AM
Does she have ZERO CHANCE of becoming president? YESSIR.  ::)

I readily admit that trump and palin have minimal chance of beating obama.

Bachmann?  I think she is a quick one.  Sure, she gets a little loopy at times - but has really slowed herself down in interviews lately.  There's no denying that she'll cut spending as POTUS.  

Can she win?  It's possible!


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: MB on April 14, 2011, 06:30:06 AM
She seems like a great candidate, the anti-Obama.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Benny B on April 14, 2011, 06:31:15 AM
I readily admit that trump and palin have minimal chance of beating obama.

Bachmann?  I think she is a quick one.  Sure, she gets a little loopy at times - but has really slowed herself down in interviews lately.  There's no denying that she'll cut spending as POTUS.  

Can she win?  It's possible!
LOL!
You sure are bringing the funny this morning! Good job, Rob.  ;D Great comedy.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Option D on April 14, 2011, 06:37:29 AM
LOL!
You sure are bringing the funny this morning! Good job, Rob.  ;D Great comedy.

lmao


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on April 14, 2011, 06:40:49 AM
 ;)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Freeborn126 on April 14, 2011, 09:54:27 AM
Cenk Ugyr= fat, incompetent, socialist, disinformation specialist, turkish, america hating retard. 

Does anyone actually watch this guy's show? 

Why doesn't he report on all the shady shit his boy Obama has been doing lately with his illegal wars and Brazilian Oil deal, or his kneepadding of Jeffery Immelt?  No, he spews his venom at a congresswoman who god forbid, doesn't want to tax the american people anymore, how dare her!


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on April 14, 2011, 10:09:56 AM
nutty and scatterbrained?  sure.  nobody denies that.


 ::)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Option D on May 04, 2011, 09:28:19 AM
::)  ::)

Yawn - yet a communist, racist, incompetent, islamist, grifter, thief, sleeper cell marxist, ghetto hood rat, thug, skell, and anti-american terrorist sympathizing pofs like obama did.   

she never tried a case and she represented the IRS..hahahahaha
From 1988 to 1993, Bachmann was an attorney representing the commissioner of the I.R.S..[22] She left her position with the IRS to become a full-time mother


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 11:17:12 AM
Was listening to her last night.  I really like her. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 04, 2011, 11:23:33 AM
Was listening to her last night.  I really like her. 

Palin/Bachmann would make me thrilled. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: The True Adonis on May 04, 2011, 11:23:53 AM
Was listening to her last night.  I really like her. 
Appeals to your intellectual side I bet.  I understood this also to be the case with Palin.  People on similar intellectual levels are able to understand each other more adequately.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 04, 2011, 11:25:49 AM
I want an ass kicker - not a college prof.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: The True Adonis on May 04, 2011, 11:28:04 AM
Palin/Bachmann would make me thrilled. 
Come on, there is no possible way they could lead any type of foreign policy or military action.  You know it as well as I do that they are inept.  Republicans need to find themselves a Petraeus type to actually be taken seriously.  Do you think Petraeus would put up with Palin/Bachmann bullshit?


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 11:28:30 AM
Appeals to your intellectual side I bet.  I understood this also to be the case with Palin.  People on similar intellectual levels are able to understand each other more adequately.

Bwahahahahaha!  TA you don't impress me much.   :)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: The True Adonis on May 04, 2011, 11:29:13 AM
Bwahahahahaha!  TA you don't impress me much.   :)
Is Bachmann more intelligent than you are?  Serious question.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 11:30:07 AM
Is Bachmann more intelligent than you are?  Serious question.

I have no idea.  What kind of stupid question is that?   ::)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 04, 2011, 11:30:33 AM
Come on, there is no possible way they could lead any type of foreign policy or military action.  You know it as well as I do that they are inept.  Republicans need to find themselves a Petraeus type to actually be taken seriously.  Do you think Petraeus would put up with Palin/Bachmann bullshit?

At this point its obvious- T-Paw, Newt, et al will roll over and play dead.   They want to lose to obama 48-52.  Palin/Bachmann will want to chop bama's kenyan nuts off.    

The GOP needs a wild card like Palin/Bachmann to take it to the marxist asshole obama.    


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: The True Adonis on May 04, 2011, 11:34:21 AM
At this point its obvious- T-Paw, Newt, et al will roll over and play dead.   They want to lose to obama 48-52.  Palin/Bachmann will want to chop bama's kenyan nuts off.    

The GOP needs a wild card like Palin/Bachmann to take it to the marxist asshole obama.    
As long as you keep propping up that caliber of crap, that is what your party will continually look like and be.  I don`t get why self-identified Republicans always manage to support the absolute worst and dumbest of their kind.  Why not step up and find get behind somebody else that is not a shit brain? 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 04, 2011, 11:34:39 AM
I hope I don't live long enough to see a woman President.... After all.

(http://www.shirt-fight.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bitches-be-crazy.jpg)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 11:36:31 AM
I hope I don't live long enough to see a woman President.... After all.

(http://www.shirt-fight.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bitches-be-crazy.jpg)

Why?  I would love to see a woman president.  Bachmann would be good.  Even Hillary would have been better than Obama. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 04, 2011, 11:38:20 AM
Why?  I would love to see a woman president.  Bachmann would be good.  Even Hillary would have been better than Obama. 

Sorry man... There's a reason why most men are CEOs and run shit... It must be for a reason.

Men get shit done and work together... women piss and moan and bitch about each other and cause problems.

I'll probably never vote for a woman President... Call me sexist if you want to.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: MCWAY on May 04, 2011, 11:39:50 AM
At this point its obvious- T-Paw, Newt, et al will roll over and play dead.   They want to lose to obama 48-52.  Palin/Bachmann will want to chop bama's kenyan nuts off.    

That is, if Jesse doesn't get to them first. Of course, they'll all have to get through TK, before the hacking begins.



Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 04, 2011, 11:42:08 AM
Any of the following would make me wet myself:

Palin/Bachmann
Cain/Bachmann
Cain/West
West/Cain
Palin/West
Bachmann/West
Cain/Palin
Cain/Bachmann


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 11:45:48 AM
Sorry man... There's a reason why most men are CEOs and run shit... It must be for a reason.

Men get shit done and work together... women piss and moan and bitch about each other and cause problems.

I'll probably never vote for a woman President... Call me sexist if you want to.

O.K.  You're a sexist.  

The reason men run most large companies is we had a glass ceiling and many enter the workforce late (or take breaks) to raise kids.  It still exists.  I still talk to men who don't like to hire women because they get pregnant.  

Women are just as capable as men to run businesses and be government leaders.  

Men and women get things done, but men also tend to break things, start wars, commit most of the crime, etc.  

I will say there is definitely an element of "drama" that women bring to the workplace, but to say they aren't as capable as men to lead is just untrue.  


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 04, 2011, 11:48:26 AM
O.K.  You're a sexist. 

The reason men run most large companies is we had a glass ceiling and many enter the workforce late (or take breaks) to raise kids.  It still exists.  I still talk to men who don't like to hire women because they get pregnant. 

Women are just as capable as men to run businesses and be government leaders. 

Men and women get things done, but men also tend to break things, start wars, commit most of the crime, etc. 

I will say there is definitely an element of "drama" that women bring to the workplace, but to say they aren't as capable as men to lead is just untrue. 

If you say so...  They bring a lot more than drama... They bring unrest.

A lot of women commit crime and a lot of crimes men commit are because of trying to impress or deal with a woman (Crimes of passion and the like)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 11:54:47 AM
If you say so...  They bring a lot more than drama... They bring unrest.

A lot of women commit crime and a lot of crimes men commit are because of trying to impress or deal with a woman (Crimes of passion and the like)


I say so because it's true.  One of the most successful governors in Hawaii history was female (Governor Linda Lingle).  Probably the leading business person in Hawaii is female (Connie Lau).  http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=1095886&ticker=HE:US

We have successful women in the U.S. House, other women governors, mayors, and all throughout government and the private sector all over the country.  We have two women on the U.S. Supreme Court.  Women who are college presidents, etc., etc. 

Yes a lot of women commit crimes, but men, by far, commit more (especially violent crime) and take up most of our prison space.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 04, 2011, 11:55:43 AM
I say so because it's true.  One of the most successful governors in Hawaii history was female (Governor Linda Lingle).  Probably the leading business person in Hawaii is female (Connie Lau).  http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=1095886&ticker=HE:US

We have successful women in the U.S. House, other women governors, mayors, and all throughout government and the private sector all over the country.  We have two women on the U.S. Supreme Court.  Women who are college presidents, etc., etc. 

Yes a lot of women commit crimes, but men, by far, commit more (especially violent crime) and take up most of our prison space.   

Yes there are successful women... They are not the majority.

Yes there are men who commit crimes... what does that have to do with the former?


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: 240 is Back on May 04, 2011, 11:59:20 AM
As long as you keep propping up that caliber of crap, that is what your party will continually look like and be.  I don`t get why self-identified Republicans always manage to support the absolute worst and dumbest of their kind.  Why not step up and find get behind somebody else that is not a shit brain? 

Bingo.  They can't get behind a dignified and professional with a bit of statesmanship.

They prefer a reality TV star.

They have so little faith in their own splintered platform that they predict anything less than a slow-mo train wreck can't beat obama.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 04, 2011, 12:00:46 PM
Yes there are successful women... They are not the majority.

Yes there are men who commit crimes... what does that have to do with the former?

Dude you need help.  Why the woman hatred?  I thought Decide was the only resident woman hater.    

I said men commit most of the crime.  You responded by saying a lot of women commit crime.  I agreed, but reiterated that most crime, especially violent crime, is committed by men.  


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Benny B on May 06, 2011, 11:11:58 AM
Any of the following would make me wet myself:

Palin/Bachmann
Cain/Bachmann
Cain/West
West/Cain
Palin/West
Bachmann/West
Cain/Palin
Cain/Bachmann

I've got to save this post by PEA BRAIN so I can quote it over and over again when our resident "dumb dago" ends up voting for Mitt Romney...again.  ;D

Why wasn't Batshit Bachmann at the FOX SC debate?


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 06, 2011, 11:16:05 AM
I would vote for Beetlejuice / Wee Man over obama in 2012 if given the choice.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 08, 2011, 03:55:59 PM
Dude you need help.  Why the woman hatred?  I thought Decide was the only resident woman hater.   

I said men commit most of the crime.  You responded by saying a lot of women commit crime.  I agreed, but reiterated that most crime, especially violent crime, is committed by men. 

I do not hate women. I am honest about their ability to work together and lead.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Option D on May 08, 2011, 08:14:35 PM
she never tried a case and she represented the IRS..hahahahaha
From 1988 to 1993, Bachmann was an attorney representing the commissioner of the I.R.S..[22] She left her position with the IRS to become a full-time mother


bump...for repub...worked for IRS


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 09, 2011, 03:57:30 AM
Dude you need help.  Why the woman hatred?  I thought Decide was the only resident woman hater.    

I said men commit most of the crime.  You responded by saying a lot of women commit crime.  I agreed, but reiterated that most crime, especially violent crime, is committed by men.  

Pardon me? ???


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 10:45:50 AM
Pardon me? ???

Got me dude... apparently honesty = woman hater.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 12:02:29 PM
Pardon me? ???

Have you grown/changed?  I remember a number of your anti-women posts on this site. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 12:06:04 PM
Got me dude... apparently honesty = woman hater.

I don't know you, but you certainly sound like a woman hater.

Quote
I hope I don't live long enough to see a woman President.... After all.

(http://www.shirt-fight.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bitches-be-crazy.jpg)

Quote
Sorry man... There's a reason why most men are CEOs and run shit... It must be for a reason.

Men get shit done and work together... women piss and moan and bitch about each other and cause problems.

I'll probably never vote for a woman President... Call me sexist if you want to.

Quote
If you say so...  They bring a lot more than drama... They bring unrest.


Quote
Yes there are successful women... They are not the majority.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 12:19:24 PM
I don't know you, but you certainly sound like a woman hater.


So you are saying that my statements are not factual?


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 12:40:13 PM
So you are saying that my statements are not factual?

I've already said they are not factual and explained why they are not factual. 

Most women are not successful?  Good grief man.   :-\


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 12:43:30 PM
I've already said they are not factual and explained why they are not factual.  

Most women are not successful?  Good grief man.   :-\

In business... hell no.


"When we studied the leadership of 2,000 of the world's top performing companies, we found only 29 (1.5%) of those CEOs were women, an even smaller percentage than on the Fortune 500 Global list (2.6%). So it should not come as a surprise that only one woman, Meg Whitman, former CEO of eBay, made it to the top 100 of our rankings."




Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 01:17:17 PM
In business... hell no.


"When we studied the leadership of 2,000 of the world's top performing companies, we found only 29 (1.5%) of those CEOs were women, an even smaller percentage than on the Fortune 500 Global list (2.6%). So it should not come as a surprise that only one woman, Meg Whitman, former CEO of eBay, made it to the top 100 of our rankings."


Women have been hugely successful in business. 

Not sure what you think that quote establishes, but the fact women make up such a small percentage of CEOs in Fortune 500 companies is not because they're not capable.  There are several reasons why there are so few:  the glass ceiling, entering the workforce late due to childbirth, or leaving and then returning to the workforce because they want to raise a family. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 09, 2011, 02:53:08 PM
Have you grown/changed?  I remember a number of your anti-women posts on this site. 

Not so much against women as I am against misandry and sexism. I think there is a lot of misandry in our society and I wish people would talk about it more openly.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 02:57:09 PM
Not so much against women as I am against misandry and sexism. I think there is a lot of misandry in our society and I wish people would talk about it more openly.

Are you kidding?  Men rule the world dude. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 03:34:52 PM
Women have been hugely successful in business. 

Not sure what you think that quote establishes, but the fact women make up such a small percentage of CEOs in Fortune 500 companies is not because they're not capable.  There are several reasons why there are so few:  the glass ceiling, entering the workforce late due to childbirth, or leaving and then returning to the workforce because they want to raise a family. 

So you're saying they have a lot more excuses too... I see.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 09, 2011, 03:42:41 PM
Are you kidding?  Men rule the world dude.  

It's too subtle for you then; why is women initiated violence against men acceptable then? Why are men routinely portrayed as idiots in numerous commercials, when the woman is graceful and clever? Why in custody battles, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch? That is misandry in operation.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 03:47:55 PM
It's too subtle for you then; why is women initiated violence against men acceptable then? Why are men routinely portrayed as idiots in numerous commercials, when the woman is graceful and clever? Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch? That is misandry in operation.

When Avs is on point... He is on point.

All of this is absolutely true.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 09, 2011, 03:50:15 PM
When Avs is on point... He is on point.

All of this is absolutely true.

Avs? Who is that? ???


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 03:50:29 PM
It's too subtle for you then; why is women initiated violence against men acceptable then? Why are men routinely portrayed as idiots in numerous commercials, when the woman is graceful and clever? Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch? That is misandry in operation.

Man hatred is subtle?  Hardly.  You asked what appear to be a number rhetorical questions, none based in fact.  If they are not rhetorical, which one do you want to deal with first?  


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 03:52:01 PM
Avs? Who is that? ???

I must have you confused with someone else.

I thought you and Avesher were the same person.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 09, 2011, 03:57:27 PM
Man hatred is subtle?  Hardly.  You asked what appear to be a number rhetorical questions, none based in fact.  If they are not rhetorical, which one do you want to deal with first?  

We can deal with the divorce wins first since that is most likely the most obvious one.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 04:05:57 PM
We can deal with the divorce wins first since that is most likely the most obvious one.

O.K.  You'll have to explain yourself a little more.  You said:  "Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch?"

What does child custody have to do with assets?  


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 09, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
O.K.  You'll have to explain yourself a little more.  You said:  "Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch?"

What does child custody have to do with assets?  

Custody battles result from divorce and division of assets; they go hand in hand.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 09, 2011, 06:33:38 PM
Custody battles result from divorce and division of assets; they go hand in hand.

Custody battles result from divorce and a dispute over who will be the primary parent raising the kid, support obligations, etc.  Not the same as dividing up assets. 

I'm not sure if you're talking about child custody or the division of assets?   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 09, 2011, 07:41:50 PM
Custody battles result from divorce and a dispute over who will be the primary parent raising the kid, support obligations, etc.  Not the same as dividing up assets. 

I'm not sure if you're talking about child custody or the division of assets?   

Then why does the same judge who tries the custody, the same one who deals with assets in court?

They really do go hand in hand.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 03:51:28 PM
Then why does the same judge who tries the custody, the same one who deals with assets in court?

They really do go hand in hand.

No idea. 

Child custody deals with the best interests of the kid.  Division of assets (based on where you live), involves a "fair" division of people's stuff.  Not the same thing.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 10, 2011, 03:54:13 PM
No idea.  

Child custody deals with the best interests of the kid.  Division of assets (based on where you live), involves a "fair" division of people's stuff.  Not the same thing.

There is an automatic bias where the 'best interests' are usually thought to be with the mother, even if she is abusive, violent and a terrible parent. This is the same bias that awards women the great share of a man's assets in such cases. Society is biased in this regard towards men.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 04:00:07 PM
There is an automatic bias where the 'best interests' are usually thought to be with the mother, even if she is abusive, violent and a terrible parent. This is the same bias that awards women the great share of a man's assets in such cases. Society is biased in this regard towards men.

Yes... fair division is not in fact "fair". A guy who works his ass off... has no kids... will still be forced to give up 1/2 the stuff to the woman who makes less because she in fact, is a failure at her career.

What Beach refuses to acknowledge is that once a parent has "custody" of the children, the assets become a part of that as "protection of the children's well-being". Imagine if you will, a woman who divorces her husband and has the children most of the time.. Because the father must travel for work lets say... If the children are not in his domicile for 90 days, then she is warranted more child support than if the kids are with him 90 days or more.

Then, the woman receiving that high amount of child support can take the money and use it as income to purchase a house... THEN they can invite their new boyfriend into their house to live... Imagine then if there is alimony involved... as long as she's not married, alimoney must still be paid (the alimony is paid out because she is in fact not used to living at the standard which she must live as a single parent, because her husband was more successful then she was.

All of this is factored in and no matter what you say, they are intertwined.

Beach's answer of "I don't know" in response to why they are tried in the same court room and by the same judge (and the courts are "Juvenile and Domestic Relations" courts) doesn't really sound like much of an answer to be honest.

At least he's honest in that he doesn't know... If he's never been through it, he has no statement to say he understands or knows... Which he obviously does not.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
There is an automatic bias where the 'best interests' are usually thought to be with the mother, even if she is abusive, violent and a terrible parent. This is the same bias that awards women the great share of a man's assets in such cases. Society is biased in this regard towards men.

Pretty big overstatement.  I know of lots of examples where a father has gotten joint or even sole custody of his kids.  Did you follow Dwayne Wade's custody battle?  He wound up with custody of his kids. 

Not sure how you can say there is an automatic bias in every single child custody case.  Did you read that somewhere? 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 04:08:14 PM
Yes... fair division is not in fact "fair". A guy who works his ass off... has no kids... will still be forced to give up 1/2 the stuff to the woman who makes less because she in fact, is a failure at her career.

What Beach refuses to acknowledge is that once a parent has "custody" of the children, the assets become a part of that as "protection of the children's well-being". Imagine if you will, a woman who divorces her husband and has the children most of the time.. Because the father must travel for work lets say... If the children are not in his domicile for 90 days, then she is warranted more child support than if the kids are with him 90 days or more.

Then, the woman receiving that high amount of child support can take the money and use it as income to purchase a house... THEN they can invite their new boyfriend into their house to live... Imagine then if there is alimony involved... as long as she's not married, alimoney must still be paid (the alimony is paid out because she is in fact not used to living at the standard which she must live as a single parent, because her husband was more successful then she was.

All of this is factored in and no matter what you say, they are intertwined.

Beach's answer of "I don't know" in response to why they are tried in the same court room and by the same judge (and the courts are "Juvenile and Domestic Relations" courts) doesn't really sound like much of an answer to be honest.

At least he's honest in that he doesn't know... If he's never been through it, he has no statement to say he understands or knows... Which he obviously does not.

I've heard of horror stories.  I had a good friend whose ex-wife didn't remarry for like 20 years just so she could keep receiving alimony.  The only thing that stopped it was his death.   :-\

But I've heard of far more instances of deadbeat dads. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 10, 2011, 04:08:56 PM
Yes... fair division is not in fact "fair". A guy who works his ass off... has no kids... will still be forced to give up 1/2 the stuff to the woman who makes less because she in fact, is a failure at her career.

What Beach refuses to acknowledge is that once a parent has "custody" of the children, the assets become a part of that as "protection of the children's well-being". Imagine if you will, a woman who divorces her husband and has the children most of the time.. Because the father must travel for work lets say... If the children are not in his domicile for 90 days, then she is warranted more child support than if the kids are with him 90 days or more.

Then, the woman receiving that high amount of child support can take the money and use it as income to purchase a house... THEN they can invite their new boyfriend into their house to live... Imagine then if there is alimony involved... as long as she's not married, alimoney must still be paid (the alimony is paid out because she is in fact not used to living at the standard which she must live as a single parent, because her husband was more successful then she was.

All of this is factored in and no matter what you say, they are intertwined.

Beach's answer of "I don't know" in response to why they are tried in the same court room and by the same judge (and the courts are "Juvenile and Domestic Relations" courts) doesn't really sound like much of an answer to be honest.

At least he's honest in that he doesn't know... If he's never been through it, he has no statement to say he understands or knows... Which he obviously does not.

I had a friend, his wife cheated on him! and she still got over 50% of his assets because she claimed his 'inattention' towards her (he was working a lot trying to support his kids) drove her to do it and she had no choice. She then poisoned his relationship to his teenage daughter by concocting stories about him and now the daughter doesn't talk to him; son still does because he was older and independent of mind. She got the house, he has to pay money to her for the rest of his life and the daughter won't talk to him...because his wife cheated. This shit is actually common and that is the scary thing.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 10, 2011, 04:14:19 PM
Pretty big overstatement.  I know of lots of examples where a father has gotten joint or even sole custody of his kids.  Did you follow Dwayne Wade's custody battle?  He wound up with custody of his kids. 

Not sure how you can say there is an automatic bias in every single child custody case.  Did you read that somewhere? 

It's part of our biology and it transforms into societal bias. We traditionally accept females as being gentle, better caretakers and are more sympathetic towards them in difficult situations. That is the automatic bias. For example, realistic assessments of domestic violence are actually about 50/50 but we still hear the mythology that all domestic violence is committed by men, even though it is about even.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm

Quote
Very little in known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by women.  In 100 domestic violence situations approximately 40 cases involve violence by women against men.  An estimated 400,000 women per year are abused or treated violently in the United States by their spouse or intimate partner.  This means that roughly 300,000 to 400,000 men are treated violently by their wife or girl friend. 



Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 04:18:44 PM
It's part of our biology and it transforms into societal bias. We traditionally accept females as being gentle, better caretakers and are more sympathetic towards them in difficult situations. That is the automatic bias. For example, realistic assessments of domestic violence are actually about 50/50 but we still hear the mythology that all domestic violence is committed by men, even though it is about even.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm



You're saying there is an automatic biologically based bias in every child custody case?  That's a new one.  So how does this work exactly?  A male judge will have an automatic bias against the man based on biology?  Wouldn't the male judge actually have a bias in favor of the man??   

There are distinct differences between men and women, particularly when it comes to child rearing.  We bring different things to the table.  We compliment each other.  This is actually a good thing. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 10, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
You're saying there is an automatic biologically based bias in every child custody case?  That's a new one.  So how does this work exactly?  A male judge will have an automatic bias against the man based on biology?  Wouldn't the male judge actually have a bias in favor of the man??   

There are distinct differences between men and women, particularly when it comes to child rearing.  We bring different things to the table.  We compliment each other.  This is actually a good thing. 

It's not really new at all, it's really old. I know you don't believe in evolution but it is encoded in our biology by millions of years of evolution. You must know the saying: women and children first? Sure you do. Women are the limiting factor in reproduction and thus deemed more valuable. Women are consistently kept out of wars for example and it was not just because of a lack of strength. That is the biological bias that is transformed into a social bias.

And I can speak from personal experience, having been a victim of domestic violence that people and the police in particular do not take violence against men by women seriously.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 04:40:42 PM
Pretty big overstatement.  I know of lots of examples where a father has gotten joint or even sole custody of his kids.  Did you follow Dwayne Wade's custody battle?  He wound up with custody of his kids.  

Not sure how you can say there is an automatic bias in every single child custody case.  Did you read that somewhere?  

Your lots of examples is bullshit.

http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/html/custody/rights.html

Child custody rights are awarded to parents, step-parents, grandparents, and other legal guardians as determined by a family court judge. Legal judgments in child custody rights cases favor biological parents who are deemed suitable guardians. Child custody rights are awarded based on the best interests of the children involved. Child custody rights and responsibilities detail who will have legal and physical custody of the child. Child support payments will also be determined where applicable in child custody rights cases.

Child custody rights may be shared by both parents or, primary child custody rights may be awarded to one parent or legal guardian. Since the 1970s the family court will award child custody rights contingent with the best interests of the child. In the past, family courts used to favor mothers in child custody rights cases. This bias is still held by some family law judges though they will always make a fair assessment of a child's best interests when determining child custody rights.

In seven out of ten cases, child custody rights are awarded primarily to the mother of the children. Primary child custody rights are awarded to fathers less than ten percent of the time. Joint custody is awarded about twenty percent of the time meaning that child custody rights and responsibilities are shared by both parents. In most cases that do not involve abuse or neglect, parents will be free to determine the division of child custody rights as long as the arrangement is approved by a family court judge.

Parents can largely determine child custody rights when there are not major discrepancies in the terms sought by each party. Mediation is a process by which a neutral third party intercedes to facilitate decisions about child custody rights. When an agreement can be made through medications and approved by a judge, the terms of this parenting plan will be upheld. When there are disagreements over child custody rights, the case will be heard by a judge who will ultimately determine child custody rights.

When a judge hears a child custody rights case, s/he will take several factors into account when making a decision. Courts will often rely on the expert testimony of a psychologist who will evaluate child custody rights options by looking at a number of relevant factors. The following factors are taken into consideration when determining child custody rights: past parenting behavior, the age of the child, the child's preference, the amount of time a parent can dedicate to properly raising a child, household stability, financial considerations, and other specifics. Children may be allowed to testify at any age though special considerations are made for younger children.

Child custody rights involve both physical and legal rights and responsibilities. Physical child custody rights refer to who will actually take care of the child~ who the child will live and spend time with. Legal child custody rights refer to parental decision making power yielded over the major events of a child's life, such as education, health care, activities, religion, and the like.



Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 04:42:56 PM
I've heard of horror stories.  I had a good friend whose ex-wife didn't remarry for like 20 years just so she could keep receiving alimony.  The only thing that stopped it was his death.   :-\

But I've heard of far more instances of deadbeat dads. 

Of course you hear more of deadbeat dads... 2 reasons.

1. The women get the kids 7 out of 10 times
and
2. The men typically have better careers and make more money, so even if they DO get the kids... How many men actually ask for child support... Almost none.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 05:41:42 PM
It's not really new at all, it's really old. I know you don't believe in evolution but it is encoded in our biology by millions of years of evolution. You must know the saying: women and children first? Sure you do. Women are the limiting factor in reproduction and thus deemed more valuable. Women are consistently kept out of wars for example and it was not just because of a lack of strength. That is the biological bias that is transformed into a social bias.

And I can speak from personal experience, having been a victim of domestic violence that people and the police in particular do not take violence against men by women seriously.

Do that is junk science.  In fact, it's not even science. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 05:47:37 PM
Your lots of examples is bullshit.

http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/html/custody/rights.html

Child custody rights are awarded to parents, step-parents, grandparents, and other legal guardians as determined by a family court judge. Legal judgments in child custody rights cases favor biological parents who are deemed suitable guardians. Child custody rights are awarded based on the best interests of the children involved. Child custody rights and responsibilities detail who will have legal and physical custody of the child. Child support payments will also be determined where applicable in child custody rights cases.

Child custody rights may be shared by both parents or, primary child custody rights may be awarded to one parent or legal guardian. Since the 1970s the family court will award child custody rights contingent with the best interests of the child. In the past, family courts used to favor mothers in child custody rights cases. This bias is still held by some family law judges though they will always make a fair assessment of a child's best interests when determining child custody rights.

In seven out of ten cases, child custody rights are awarded primarily to the mother of the children. Primary child custody rights are awarded to fathers less than ten percent of the time. Joint custody is awarded about twenty percent of the time meaning that child custody rights and responsibilities are shared by both parents. In most cases that do not involve abuse or neglect, parents will be free to determine the division of child custody rights as long as the arrangement is approved by a family court judge.

Parents can largely determine child custody rights when there are not major discrepancies in the terms sought by each party. Mediation is a process by which a neutral third party intercedes to facilitate decisions about child custody rights. When an agreement can be made through medications and approved by a judge, the terms of this parenting plan will be upheld. When there are disagreements over child custody rights, the case will be heard by a judge who will ultimately determine child custody rights.

When a judge hears a child custody rights case, s/he will take several factors into account when making a decision. Courts will often rely on the expert testimony of a psychologist who will evaluate child custody rights options by looking at a number of relevant factors. The following factors are taken into consideration when determining child custody rights: past parenting behavior, the age of the child, the child's preference, the amount of time a parent can dedicate to properly raising a child, household stability, financial considerations, and other specifics. Children may be allowed to testify at any age though special considerations are made for younger children.

Child custody rights involve both physical and legal rights and responsibilities. Physical child custody rights refer to who will actually take care of the child~ who the child will live and spend time with. Legal child custody rights refer to parental decision making power yielded over the major events of a child's life, such as education, health care, activities, religion, and the like.



My lots of examples are what they are:  lots of examples. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 05:48:41 PM
Of course you hear more of deadbeat dads... 2 reasons.

1. The women get the kids 7 out of 10 times
and
2. The men typically have better careers and make more money, so even if they DO get the kids... How many men actually ask for child support... Almost none.

3.  Men don't take care of their kids like they're supposed to.  That's primarily why I hear about deadbeat dads so much. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 10, 2011, 06:52:22 PM
Do that is junk science.  In fact, it's not even science. 

It certainly is science. How else do you explain why women's and children's lives are more valuable than adult male's lives?


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 10, 2011, 06:55:21 PM
Women can reproduce


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 06:57:36 PM
It certainly is science. How else do you explain why women's and children's lives are more valuable than adult male's lives?

I don't think they are more valuable.  (That isn't science either.) 

I was specifically referring to your claim that gender-based biological differences cause all male and female judges to have a bias against men in child custody disputes. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 06:59:51 PM
My lots of examples are what they are:  lots of examples.  

No... They are an opinion... I have given you actual real numbers... Actual statistics... You give "lots of examples" ::)

3.  Men don't take care of their kids like they're supposed to.  That's primarily why I hear about deadbeat dads so much.  

Wrong... You hear about deadbeat dads because the numbers are so blatantly skewed... Again... when the children go to the woman 7 out of 10 times, that's 70 percent of the time when you can't even say a woman is a "deadbeat", because she already has the kids... then, they go to someone outside of the family 2 out of 10 times... So you are left with only a 1 in 10 chance the Dad gets custody anyway and the woman even has an opportunity to be a deadbeat.

That's just a fact.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 07:09:17 PM
No... They are an opinion... I have given you actual real numbers... Actual statistics... You give "lots of examples" ::)

Wrong... You hear about deadbeat dads because the numbers are so blatantly skewed... Again... when the children go to the woman 7 out of 10 times, that's 70 percent of the time when you can't even say a woman is a "deadbeat", because she already has the kids... then, they go to someone outside of the family 2 out of 10 times... So you are left with only a 1 in 10 chance the Dad gets custody anyway and the woman even has an opportunity to be a deadbeat.

That's just a fact.

You gave me actual real numbers, without a single reference.  They could be accurate, but you likely just pulled the first link you found on Google.  I'm fine with my "lots of examples."  I'm not making some kind of statistical argument.

I did not compare deadbeat moms with deadbeat dads.  I compared the number of stories I hear about deadbeat dads with the number of horror stories I hear about men getting screwed in divorces. 

The reason I hear about so many deadbeat dads is because there are so many of them.  Knuckleheads who don't handle their business.  It's an epidemic.  That's why you have entire state agencies devoted to getting men to support their children.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 07:16:10 PM
You gave me actual real numbers, without a single reference.  They could be accurate, but you likely just pulled the first link you found on Google.  I'm fine with my "lots of examples."  I'm not making some kind of statistical argument.

I did not compare deadbeat moms with deadbeat dads.  I compared the number of stories I hear about deadbeat dads with the number of horror stories I hear about men getting screwed in divorces. 

The reason I hear about so many deadbeat dads is because there are so many of them.  Knuckleheads who don't handle their business.  It's an epidemic.  That's why you have entire state agencies devoted to getting men to support their children.   

No... they are state agencies devoted to getting "parents" to support their children... gender is not required at ALL.

You hear stories because women are also complainers and like to whine about how unfair their lives are... Their is no statistical evidence to support your claim at all.

You want to read a report on custody?

http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-225.pdf

In 2001... 63% of women had some form of support paid to them... so if 6.3 out of 10 people are supposed to get a check as compared to 3.8 out of 10.

You're instantly going to have at least twice as many complaints... Add to that the fact that guys don't sit around and whine or complain... They get shit done... You get your "lots of examples" ::)

If a woman owed me child support, I wouldn't give a damn... why you ask? Because I don't need any woman's money to take care of my kids.

You're basically saying that men are persecuted for being successful... Thanks for making my point for me.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 07:22:58 PM
No... they are state agencies devoted to getting "parents" to support their children... gender is not required at ALL.

You hear stories because women are also complainers and like to whine about how unfair their lives are... Their is no statistical evidence to support your claim at all.

You want to read a report on custody?

http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-225.pdf

In 2001... 63% of women had some form of support paid to them... so if 6.3 out of 10 people are supposed to get a check as compared to 3.8 out of 10.

You're instantly going to have at least twice as many complaints... Add to that the fact that guys don't sit around and whine or complain... They get shit done... You get your "lots of examples" ::)

If a woman owed me child support, I wouldn't give a damn... why you ask? Because I don't need any woman's money to take care of my kids.

You're basically saying that men are persecuted for being successful... Thanks for making my point for me.

I see, so the overwhelming majority of women are awarded custody, which means the overwhelming majority of men are ordered to pay child support.  A significant number of those men don't pay, but enforcement agencies aren't targeting men?  Absurd.  You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. 

I never said men are persecuted for being successful.  lol.  Ridiculous.  "Successful" men take care of their kids.  Smart, responsible men don't get chased by the government to force them to take care of their kids.  This is a much bigger problem than men getting screwed in divorces.  (Yes, that is my opinion.) 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 07:31:49 PM
I see, so the overwhelming majority of women are awarded custody, which means the overwhelming majority of men are ordered to pay child support.  A significant number of those men don't pay, but enforcement agencies aren't targeting men?  Absurd.  You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. 


How am I talking out of both sides of my mouth... I'm saying that they target whomever owes child support but doesn't pay... Whether they be men or women... Inevitably though, there are more men ordered to pay... therefore, more men will be in default.

So you're the one saying they target men... You.

So let me make sure I understand... You are stating women are treated fairly and are equals, that's why they should be allowed to run companies and be President,  yet men are targeted by enforcement agencies... Even though they by far pay the most child support.

You don't see that you are the one who is talking out of both sides here?

No... you won't... you will try to justify your lunacy with something ridiculous... So go ahead and get started.

3.
2.
1.
.
.
.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 07:38:20 PM
How am I talking out of both sides of my mouth... I'm saying that they target whomever owes child support but doesn't pay... Whether they be men or women... Inevitably though, there are more men ordered to pay... therefore, more men will be in default.

So you're the one saying they target men... You.

So let me make sure I understand... You are stating women are treated fairly and are equals, that's why they should be allowed to run companies and be President,  yet men are targeted by enforcement agencies... Even though they by far pay the most child support.

You don't see that you are the one who is talking out of both sides here?

No... you won't... you will try to justify your lunacy with something ridiculous... So go ahead and get started.

3.
2.
1.
.
.
.


Asking a question and providing someone else's answer?  How original.   ::)

What on earth does child support have to do with women working in business running for political office?  It's difficult to respond to gobbledygook.  One issue at a time. 

I don't have much more to add to men paying child support other than what I've already said. 

I'm not sure how to respond to whatever it is you're saying.  You're all over the place.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 07:42:46 PM
Asking a question and providing someone else's answer?  How original.   ::)

What on earth does child support have to do with women working in business running for political office?  It's difficult to respond to gobbledygook.  One issue at a time. 

I don't have much more to add to men paying child support other than what I've already said. 

I'm not sure how to respond to whatever it is you're saying.  You're all over the place.   

That's your answer... ok then.

Please don't comment on Child support anymore... you don't know. If you feel like looking at research and coming back... fine.

As far as women as Presidents of companies or the US... Again, I have provided numbers about that... If women would do a better job, they'd get more CEO jobs... They don't... simple.

People care about money... They want the companies they invest in to succeed... Very few women bring that success at that level.

You call it sexist, but I call it fact... I am all over the place because at the core, it's about women who succeed and in both instances, they are proven not to... In business, they just get fired or don't get jobs, in households, they get welfare from the man who does succeed.



Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 10, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
Funny how step en fetch it starts these threads yet never comments in them. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 10, 2011, 07:55:31 PM
That's your answer... ok then.

Please don't comment on Child support anymore... you don't know. If you feel like looking at research and coming back... fine.

As far as women as Presidents of companies or the US... Again, I have provided numbers about that... If women would do a better job, they'd get more CEO jobs... They don't... simple.

People care about money... They want the companies they invest in to succeed... Very few women bring that success at that level.

You call it sexist, but I call it fact... I am all over the place because at the core, it's about women who succeed and in both instances, they are proven not to... In business, they just get fired or don't get jobs, in households, they get welfare from the man who does succeed.



I will comment on whatever the heck I want.  The real solution is don't read and/or respond to something you don't like, or that doesn't interest you.  I do it all the time.   :)

Your comments about women are some of the most preposterous things I have ever read on this board.  They are comments I would expect from someone like SamsonJag.  Your statistics about female CEOs do not prove that women are not capable of running businesses.  If you believe that, then you're not very bright.  As I indicated in another thread, the lack of female CEOs at Fortune 500 companies are a direct result of the glass ceiling, women entering the workforce late due to marriage and/childbirth, and women leaving and then returning to the workforce to raise kids. 

The men who run these companies, many of whom are in their 60s or so, entered the workforce 30 or 40 years ago.  Women did not have a level playing field in the workforce in the 1970s or even part of the 1980s.  If you've talked to many people in upper management, like I have, and listen to what some of them say about women, it's alarming.  The primary complaint I've heard is they're upset that women get pregnant and leave.  Has zero to do with their ability to lead.     


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 10, 2011, 08:40:40 PM
I will comment on whatever the heck I want.  The real solution is don't read and/or respond to something you don't like, or that doesn't interest you.  I do it all the time.   :)

Your comments about women are some of the most preposterous things I have ever read on this board.  They are comments I would expect from someone like SamsonJag.  Your statistics about female CEOs do not prove that women are not capable of running businesses.  If you believe that, then you're not very bright.  As I indicated in another thread, the lack of female CEOs at Fortune 500 companies are a direct result of the glass ceiling, women entering the workforce late due to marriage and/childbirth, and women leaving and then returning to the workforce to raise kids. 

The men who run these companies, many of whom are in their 60s or so, entered the workforce 30 or 40 years ago.  Women did not have a level playing field in the workforce in the 1970s or even part of the 1980s.  If you've talked to many people in upper management, like I have, and listen to what some of them say about women, it's alarming.  The primary complaint I've heard is they're upset that women get pregnant and leave.  Has zero to do with their ability to lead.     

You keep saying that... You're saying 30 years and the glass ceiling isn't broken?

We have more BLACK CEOs than we have women... These people were slaves for 400 years, yet they can break the glass ceiling and women can't?

You're right about one thing... you can respond to whatever you want to, you just don't make much of an argument in this case... You go ahead and "stick to your guns" about this... Bottom line is... you're just wrong.

What does being pregnant have to do with it anyway? If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant and wants to have a successful career, no one is stopping them... Nothing but an excuse.

Everything you've said is an excuse for being "less than".


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 11, 2011, 11:29:59 AM
You keep saying that... You're saying 30 years and the glass ceiling isn't broken?

We have more BLACK CEOs than we have women... These people were slaves for 400 years, yet they can break the glass ceiling and women can't?

You're right about one thing... you can respond to whatever you want to, you just don't make much of an argument in this case... You go ahead and "stick to your guns" about this... Bottom line is... you're just wrong.

What does being pregnant have to do with it anyway? If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant and wants to have a successful career, no one is stopping them... Nothing but an excuse.

Everything you've said is an excuse for being "less than".

Let me make I understand exactly what you're saying.  Are you suggesting men are smarter than women? 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 11, 2011, 11:51:24 AM
Let me make I understand exactly what you're saying.  Are you suggesting men are smarter than women? 

I didn't say that... I said they were more successful... The reasons are not about intelligence, but their social skills.

Men work together to achieve a goal... Even if they typically do not like the person they are working with. The Enemy of my Enemy is my friend.

Women do not work together well... They cat fight... Always struggle for power and stab each other in the back more frequently. The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy.

It has much more to do with how they view their peers... women always try to find fault with other women... They "hate" on each other. Men use other men's skills to their advantage... less "hate".

Go listen to how women talk about other women when out in a public and social setting (such as a bar or club)... Guys almost never do that to other guys in the real world... Only on a bodybuilding forum does stuff like that happen.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 11, 2011, 12:01:02 PM
I didn't say that... I said they were more successful... The reasons are not about intelligence, but their social skills.

Men work together to achieve a goal... Even if they typically do not like the person they are working with. The Enemy of my Enemy is my friend.

Women do not work together well... They cat fight... Always struggle for power and stab each other in the back more frequently. The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy.

It has much more to do with how they view their peers... women always try to find fault with other women... They "hate" on each other. Men use other men's skills to their advantage... less "hate".

Go listen to how women talk about other women when out in a public and social setting (such as a bar or club)... Guys almost never do that to other guys in the real world... Only on a bodybuilding forum does stuff like that happen.

This happens, but it's primarily less educated staff who engage in this kind of stuff.  White collar female professionals and politicians, by and large, do not have these issues.  They don't have "cat fights."  They function just as well as men in those environments.    

I listen to women talk all the time in public and social settings, both here and across the country.  To say all professional women, or even a majority, don't have the social skills to be successful is untrue.  

And in terms of "back stabbing," it's professional men who are much more ruthless than women in my experience.  People (primarily men) in business can be cutthroat.  Not even close.  


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 11, 2011, 12:01:45 PM
This happens, but it's primarily less educated staff who engage in this kind of stuff.  White collar female professionals and politicians, by and large, do not have these issues.  They don't have "cat fights."  They function just as well as men in those environments.   

I listen to women talk all the time in public and social settings, both here and across the country.  To say all professional women, or even a majority, don't have the social skills to be successful is untrue. 

And in terms of "back stabbing," it's professional men who are much more ruthless than men in my experience.  People (primarily men) in business can be cutthroat.  Not even close. 

I disagree.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 11, 2011, 12:12:23 PM
I disagree.

Obviously.  And there are others like you.  That's why we have Title VII.  lol . . . .


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 11, 2011, 12:23:44 PM
Obviously.  And there are others like you.  That's why we have Title VII.  lol . . . .

Not a bit... If women prove that they are capable, I have no problem with it... My life experience, as well as the experience of most, has shown otherwise.

I am not against equal rights... I'm against special treatment... Don't get it twisted.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 11, 2011, 01:29:21 PM
Not a bit... If women prove that they are capable, I have no problem with it... My life experience, as well as the experience of most, has shown otherwise.

I am not against equal rights... I'm against special treatment... Don't get it twisted.


I haven't twisted anything.  You don't believe women are as capable as men in business or politics.  You would never vote for a woman president.  I assume that means any other elected office too? 

Title VII was designed precisely for your kind of mindset. 

As I think about it, I'm not all that surprised, because I've met a number of men who don't like to hire women.  I actually talked to a woman's group about this last year.  It does create additional barriers for them to overcome.   

My life experience tells me you have a warped view of women in society and the workplace. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 11, 2011, 02:50:14 PM
I haven't twisted anything.  You don't believe women are as capable as men in business or politics.  You would never vote for a woman president.  I assume that means any other elected office too? 

Title VII was designed precisely for your kind of mindset. 

As I think about it, I'm not all that surprised, because I've met a number of men who don't like to hire women.  I actually talked to a woman's group about this last year.  It does create additional barriers for them to overcome.   

My life experience tells me you have a warped view of women in society and the workplace. 

You're just wrong... You have no concept of why I say what I say, even when I've come out and said very clearly why.

You're just delusional when it comes to this point. I will not respond anymore in this thread.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 11, 2011, 02:58:20 PM
You're just wrong... You have no concept of why I say what I say, even when I've come out and said very clearly why.

You're just delusional when it comes to this point. I will not respond anymore in this thread.

No worries.   :)  I hope you can overcome your misogyny.   :-\


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Roger Bacon on May 14, 2011, 04:00:16 AM
Way to be a bitch and go post this shit on the female board Beach Bum!  


Why is it taking women so long to "catch up" (only beginning to now with special favor being given to them)?  

Were white men the recipients of any affirmative action when they triumphed to build great civilizations in Europe, or when they risked their lives to discover our country?


Women play a different important role, they're not fit to play the roles of men just like men aren't fit to play the roles of women.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 03:37:08 PM
Way to be a bitch and go post this shit on the female board Beach Bum!  


Why is it taking women so long to "catch up" (only beginning to now with special favor being given to them)?  

Were white men the recipients of any affirmative action when they triumphed to build great civilizations in Europe, or when they risked their lives to discover our country?


Women play a different important role, they're not fit to play the roles of men just like men aren't fit to play the roles of women.

It doesn't bother me he made people aware... he should have linked this thread and not copied and pasted links... That must have taken him a bit and takes viewership away from the Politics board... which he is a mod of apparently, yet takes readers away.

Way more time than I'd be willing to spend on it... I must have got in his head. I can't really say I'm shocked though... He lives in a house with nothing but women (if I recall correctly) so the estrogen must seep into his system by osmosis.

Women will not EVER catch up... even with the special treatment... because of all the reasons I've said.

In 30 years they've gone from 0.1% to a whole 2.5% of running companies... I'm sure the numbers in other leadership roles are the similar.

How many leadership roles in the entire world do women have?

There's a reason for it... and it's because of "guys like me" as Beach would have you believe... That's like saying a black man can't be President because "The Man" is keeping him down.

It just doesn't equate in 2011.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 03:38:21 PM
Way to be a bitch and go post this shit on the female board Beach Bum!  


Why is it taking women so long to "catch up" (only beginning to now with special favor being given to them)?  

Were white men the recipients of any affirmative action when they triumphed to build great civilizations in Europe, or when they risked their lives to discover our country?


Women play a different important role, they're not fit to play the roles of men just like men aren't fit to play the roles of women.

Shut up fool.   ::)


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 03:39:28 PM
It doesn't bother me he made people aware... he should have linked this thread and not copied and pasted links... That must have taken him a bit.

Way more time than I'd be willing to spend on it.

Women will not EVER catch up... even with the special treatment... because of all the reasons I've said.

In 30 years they've gone from 0.1% to a whole 2.5% of running companies... I'm sure the numbers in other leadership roles are the similar.

How many leadership roles in the entire world do women have?

There's a reason for it... and it's because of "guys like me" as Beach would have you believe... That's like saying a black man can't be President because "The Man" is keeping him down.

It just doesn't equate in 2011.

How do you explain this?

Women leading men in CEO pay
16 top females had salaries 43% higher than male average
By Alexis Leondis
Bloomberg News Service

Chief executive officers' pay is shattering the glass ceiling.
 
Boosted by a $47.2 million package for Carol Bartz of Yahoo! Inc. and $26.3 million for Irene Rosenfeld of Kraft Foods Inc., compensation for female CEOs at the biggest U.S. companies is booming.

Sixteen women heading companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index averaged earnings of $14.2 million in their latest fiscal years, 43 percent more than the male average, according to data compiled by Bloomberg News from proxy filings. The women who were also CEOs in 2008 got a 19 percent raise in 2009 while the men took a 5 percent cut.

"When you see numbers like this, one can truly say that the glass ceiling in corporate America has been shattered," said Frank Glassner, CEO of San Francisco-based Veritas Executive Compensation Consultants LLC. "I don't remember seeing women ever getting paid more than men."

Graef Crystal, a pay expert who analyzed the data for Bloomberg News, said that "compensation committees are saying we don't want to have any trouble" over underpaying women, "so if we err, let's err on the side of giving them too much."

Darwinian competition is also playing a role, said Sheila Wellington, a professor of management and organizations at New York University who studies women business leaders.

"These are the strongest, fittest and toughest who survive," according to Wellington, who said she was offered half the salary of male peers for her first job at a mental health facility in 1968. "They've had to negotiate all the way up the ladder."

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20100514/BUSINESS18/5140323/Women+leading+men+in+CEO+pay


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 05:13:51 PM
How do you explain this?


Easy... Special treatment... Same as always.

Women don't want "equality" they want special treatment... No shock there.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Deicide on May 15, 2011, 05:16:06 PM
Easy... Special treatment... Same as always.

Women don't want "equality" they want special treatment... No shock there.

QFT


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 05:27:58 PM
Easy... Special treatment... Same as always.

Women don't want "equality" they want special treatment... No shock there.

Dang.  You really believe this?  You think the board of directors of a Fortune 500 company decides to compensate women CEOs more than men because of "special treatment"?

How exactly does that work?  The board takes a look at a female CEO and gives her an undeserved bump in compensation, unrelated to performance, solely because she is a woman? 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 05:41:41 PM
Dang.  You really believe this?  You think the board of directors of a Fortune 500 company decides to compensate women CEOs more than men because of "special treatment"?

How exactly does that work?  The board takes a look at a female CEO and gives her an undeserved bump in compensation, unrelated to performance, solely because she is a woman? 

Carly Fiorina... Get back to me after that.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 06:04:10 PM
Carly Fiorina... Get back to me after that.

No idea what you're talking about. 

Can you walk me through how you think this "special treatment" for women compensation works during a Fortune 500 company board of directors meeting? 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 06:08:38 PM
No idea what you're talking about.  

Can you walk me through how you think this "special treatment" for women compensation works during a Fortune 500 company board of directors meeting?  

You believe that these women do that much of a better job than their male counterparts?

That's what you're telling me?

A 43% better job?

Funny... I don't see Yahoo making some huge money... As a matter of fact, they're still in the tank... So get back with me when she earns that money.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 06:10:39 PM
You believe that these women are doing a better job then their male counterparts... enough to warrant them getting paid MORE than those men?

Certainly you don't truly believe this.

I posted statistics that show female CEOs at Fortune 500 companies make more than their male counterparts.  When I asked how you explain this, you said "special treatment." 

What I'm asking is for you to walk me through how you think this "special treatment" compensation is decided by the board of directors at a Fortune 500 company.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 06:16:20 PM
I posted statistics that show female CEOs at Fortune 500 companies make more than their male counterparts.  When I asked how you explain this, you said "special treatment." 

What I'm asking is for you to walk me through how you think this "special treatment" compensation is decided by the board of directors at a Fortune 500 company.


It is done quietly... Deep down they don't want to be seen as "sexist" so they over compensate.


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 06:18:30 PM

It is done quietly... Deep down they don't want to be seen as "sexist" so they over compensate.

I see.  They hide it from the shareholders?  Do they redact it from the meeting minutes? 

You do realize that compensation is voted on and approved by the board? 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 06:26:03 PM
I see.  They hide it from the shareholders?  Do they redact it from the meeting minutes? 

You do realize that compensation is voted on and approved by the board? 

Yes... I realize it.

They simply don't bring it up Beach... No one wants to be seen as the evil person who says the woman can't get her money, so they just don't talk about it.

Again, where has Carol Bartz earned that money... Yahoo stock is up .98% since the same time last year.. She's been in the job since Jan 2009... In that time Yahoo's only decent jump in stock price took a jump because she cut 1600 jobs.

Where did she do something worth 43% more than someone else?


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 06:32:44 PM
Yes... I realize it.

They simply don't bring it up Beach... No one wants to be seen as the evil person who says the woman can't get her money, so they just don't talk about it.

Again, where has Carol Bartz earned that money... Yahoo stock is up .98% since the same time last year.. She's been in the job since Jan 2009... In that time Yahoo's only decent jump in stock price took a jump because she cut 1600 jobs.

Where did she do something worth 43% more than someone else?

Dude.  If they don't bring it up, how do you know it happens??  You have some inside info? 

I've sat on a number of boards, hired, fired, and voted on compensation.  I don't ever recall some unwritten, unspoken "special treatment" for women.  It's about performance.

I don't know the specifics about Carol Bartz, or why the stock allegedly hasn't risen much in two years.  Perhaps it's because the entire market has been in the tank?  I'd need to know the state of the organization when she took over and how the organization has performed, as a whole, the past two years.   


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 06:45:29 PM
Dude.  If they don't bring it up, how do you know it happens??  You have some inside info? 

I've sat on a number of boards, hired, fired, and voted on compensation.  I don't ever recall some unwritten, unspoken "special treatment" for women.  It's about performance.

I don't know the specifics about Carol Bartz, or why the stock allegedly hasn't risen much in two years.  Perhaps it's because the entire market has been in the tank?  I'd need to know the state of the organization when she took over and how the organization has performed, as a whole, the past two years.   

All of Yahoo's information is out there... like I stated... a jump when she laid off 1600 people and that's it... Yahoo's information is available.

You are not reading what I'm typing Beach... No one will ever say anything like "she doesn't deserve that" in a board room because they would be a sexist asshole... People are too chicken shit to say the truth, so they say... whatever... give it to her.

In the real world, when camera's aren't running and you are discussing things where work actually gets done (which isn't the boardroom) I guarantee you the conversations occurred... they occur everywhere.

Real decisions don't happen in the boardroom... As someone who has sat on the board of so many companies... I'm sure you know this.



Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 06:58:48 PM
All of Yahoo's information is out there... like I stated... a jump when she laid off 1600 people and that's it... Yahoo's information is available.

You are not reading what I'm typing Beach... No one will ever say anything like "she doesn't deserve that" in a board room because they would be a sexist asshole... People are too chicken shit to say the truth, so they say... whatever... give it to her.

In the real world, when camera's aren't running and you are discussing things where work actually gets done (which isn't the boardroom) I guarantee you the conversations occurred... they occur everywhere.

Real decisions don't happen in the boardroom... As someone who has sat on the board of so many companies... I'm sure you know this.



Part of what you say is true.  I've seen how some board members will have discussed matters beforehand and have a pretty clear agenda.  Can be very frustrating.  I've also heard (as I mentioned earlier in this thread), men in upper management make disparaging comments about women.  More than once.   

That said, it is a gross overstatement to say "real decisions" don't happen in the boardroom.  Yes, they do.  And at the end of the day, a decision on compensation has to be justified by performance.

It sounds like you are making some pretty broad assumptions.  It is unreasonable to try and explain away female CEO compensation exceeding their male counterparts based on unspoken, unwritten "special treatment," or some water cooler talk.   Business is largely about making a profit.  If a CEO does a good job running a company, the CEO will get paid. 


Title: Re: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2011, 08:25:27 PM
Part of what you say is true.  I've seen how some board members will have discussed matters beforehand and have a pretty clear agenda.  Can be very frustrating.  I've also heard (as I mentioned earlier in this thread), men in upper management make disparaging comments about women.  More than once.   

That said, it is a gross overstatement to say "real decisions" don't happen in the boardroom.  Yes, they do.  And at the end of the day, a decision on compensation has to be justified by performance.

It sounds like you are making some pretty broad assumptions.  It is unreasonable to try and explain away female CEO compensation exceeding their male counterparts based on unspoken, unwritten "special treatment," or some water cooler talk.   Business is largely about making a profit.  If a CEO does a good job running a company, the CEO will get paid. 

That's not true... CEOs are paid based upon expected performance... When they don't perform as expected... They tenure resignation and walk away with huge sums of money.

I can tell you about certain VPs in my own location who used to sit in the floor above me and how ridiculous they were, but you wouldn't listen, so it doesn't matter.