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Title: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 06:00:21 AM
Even though my brother's a cop, I think over the years my respect for them just keeps diminishing further and further.

I get these clowns are scared but opening fire on innocent people because of your cowardice is unacceptable.

How comical that Agnostic tried to claim the cowards get weeded out, lol.  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 06:16:07 AM
Even though my brother's a cop, I think over the years my respect for them just keeps diminishing further and further.

I get these clowns are scared but opening fire on innocent people because of your cowardice is unacceptable.

How comical that Agnostic tried to claim the cowards get weeded out, lol.  ::)



Life on the line bro - only cops are able to competently operate and handle firearms! 



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 06:20:49 AM
 :D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 06:37:11 AM
:D



Exactly.

Now is when the governor needs to send troops in and get these fucking monkey cops under control.

These are the same people who decry vigilantism because it leads to innocents getting hurt.  ::)

Look at what a little bit of uncontrolled fear is doing to these cops.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: GigantorX on February 08, 2013, 06:43:54 AM
:D

Wow.

So much for investigating, calling for backup, perusing, observing and, you know, doing Police Work.

No, opening fire right away will do the trick.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Fury on February 08, 2013, 07:16:43 AM
But the anti-gun crowd tells me that the police will protect me if they're the only ones with guns!

I'm so confused!!!!!  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on February 08, 2013, 07:22:27 AM


Look at what a little bit of uncontrolled fear is doing to these cops.

Exactly, put them in the hot seat and they aren't man enough.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on February 08, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
But the anti-gun crowd tells me that the police will protect me if they're the only ones with guns!

I'm so confused!!!!!  ::)

Fuck them.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 08, 2013, 07:27:32 AM
:D

 :o


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 07:29:53 AM
there are 700,000 cops in the u.s.,i'm sure there are some bad ones,but if you read this thread you would think they're all bad  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 07:35:12 AM
there are 700,000 cops in the u.s.,i'm sure there are some bad ones,but if you read this thread you would think they're all bad  ::)

Remember what i told you last week about cops and guns and you laughed at what I said? 

Here is a perfect example. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 07:39:07 AM

Remember what i told you last week about cops and guns and you laughed at what I said? 

Here is a perfect example. 


there are 700,000 cops in the u.s.,i'm sure there are some bad ones,but if you read this thread you would think they're all bad  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Al Doggity on February 08, 2013, 07:51:00 AM
But the anti-gun crowd tells me that the police will protect me if they're the only ones with guns!

I'm so confused!!!!!  ::)

Yeah, and the anti-gun control crowd claims having armed guns in schools will solve all of our problems. It's clear that when someone receives a paycheck to carry a gun, they become super-courageous and not at all trigger happy, so there definitely won't be a ton of accidental shooting if that happens. Everyone knows more guns doesn't equal more gun injuries or accidents.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 07:53:53 AM
Yeah, and the anti-gun control crowd claims having armed guns in schools will solve all of our problems. It's clear that when someone receives a paycheck to carry a gun, they become super-courageous and not at all trigger happy, so there definitely won't be a ton of accidental shooting if that happens. Everyone knows more guns doesn't equal more gun injuries or accidents.

uuummm - the cops are supposed to be rained more than the average ccw permit holder right?   Just for cases like this right? 

Cops are mostly useless and more dangerous to the public than a CCW permit holder.  Most NEVER go to the range, never practice, never better their skills, ever.

I know a lot of cops and they are the last people i want carrying a gun. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 08:01:02 AM
there are 700,000 cops in the u.s.,i'm sure there are some bad ones,but if you read this thread you would think they're all bad  ::)



Yeah good point....so where's all the condemnation of how these monkeys are acting?

I'm sure as hell not seeing it.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 08:03:52 AM
Exactly, put them in the hot seat and they aren't man enough.




Yeah...and I've had personal experience with their cowardice as well which is I why we had this argument with Agnostic in the past.

Little bit of fear and this whole department is in a fucking unreal frenzy.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 08:08:18 AM


Yeah good point....so where's all the condemnation of how these monkeys are acting?

I'm sure as hell not seeing it.

here it is from the getbig kook  :D

uuummm - the cops are supposed to be rained more than the average ccw permit holder right?   Just for cases like this right? 

Cops are mostly useless and more dangerous to the public than a CCW permit holder.  Most NEVER go to the range, never practice, never better their skills, ever.

I know a lot of cops and they are the last people i want carrying a gun. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 08:09:28 AM
here it is from the getbig kook  :D


I stay to my claim. 

Arent cops supposed to be trained for this very type of situation?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 08:12:59 AM
I stay to my claim. 

Arent cops supposed to be trained for this very type of situation?




Exactly...it's the whole fucking theory behind not using the military.  Here we've got 2 different GROUPS of cops that shit their collective pants and start shooting up innocent people.

Yeah real heroes who have overcome fear.  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Al Doggity on February 08, 2013, 08:13:28 AM
uuummm - the cops are supposed to be rained more than the average ccw permit holder right?   Just for cases like this right? 

Cops are mostly useless and more dangerous to the public than a CCW permit holder.  Most NEVER go to the range, never practice, never better their skills, ever.

I know a lot of cops and they are the last people i want carrying a gun. 

 ::) So,  no expectations of responsibility = safer, more responsible gun carriers?  This story has almost nothing to do with responsible gun-handling or marksmanship skills and everything to do with how people react in high-stress situations.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 08:13:53 AM
700,000 cops ,there might be some bad ones,mmmm who would have thought


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 08:27:19 AM
700,000 cops ,there might be some bad ones,mmmm who would have thought



Yeah...cause it's just a handful.  ::)



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 240 is Back on February 08, 2013, 08:35:21 AM
opening fire on that vehicle = they need fired.  Yes, the vehicle is a match... but two little ladies delivering papers... they see a similar car and open up? 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 08:38:06 AM


Yeah...cause it's just a handful.  ::)




Yeah...cause it's most of them.  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 08, 2013, 09:30:46 AM
opening fire on that vehicle = they need fired.  Yes, the vehicle is a match... but two little ladies delivering papers... they see a similar car and open up? 

Can anyone speak on this?  Were the vehicles, at least, a match?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 09:32:06 AM
Can anyone speak on this?  Were the vehicles, at least, a match?

Different colors.   And even so  - you cant just open fire. 

If a citizen did this they would be charge w attempted murder. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 09:36:49 AM

Yeah...cause it's most of them.  ::)



Who said that tard?

Is that the best you've got?

Arguing against shit u made up?



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 08, 2013, 09:39:55 AM
Different colors.   And even so  - you cant just open fire. 

If a citizen did this they would be charge w attempted murder. 

Setting aside that they chose to open fire...

So a different color...does anyone know if the truck was different in other ways?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 09:44:34 AM
Setting aside that they chose to open fire...

So a different color...does anyone know if the truck was different in other ways?



Just curious where ur going with this?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 09:48:57 AM
Yeah...cause it's just a handful


Who said that tard?

Is that the best you've got?

Arguing against shit u made up?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 08, 2013, 09:50:55 AM


Just curious where ur going with this?

Trying to see what information others have.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Option D on February 08, 2013, 09:53:15 AM
:D

i thought they said that the dudes truck was dark gray


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 09:54:49 AM
i thought they said that the dudes truck was dark gray

Correct.   

These cops are like most i know - not fit for the job 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 08, 2013, 09:58:36 AM
Does anyone know if it was even the same make of vehicle?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 08, 2013, 10:00:04 AM
Correct.   

These cops are like most i know - not fit for the job 


maybe you should do their work,oh yeah you had your chance a while back and just let him run by,typ right wing chickenhawk


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Option D on February 08, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
Correct.   

These cops are like most i know - not fit for the job 


I was pretty neutral about this whole thing because i dont have all the facts and i refuse to read fat LL cool J's manifesto..

But now im think it might be something more because ive never seen the police wild out like this...


Did you know that they shot up this truck, then around the corner.. other police heard the shots and then shot up another pick up....This is borderline retarded


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 10:11:30 AM

I was pretty neutral about this whole thing because i dont have all the facts and i refuse to read fat LL cool J's manifesto..

But now im think it might be something more because ive never seen the police wild out like this...


Did you know that they shot up this truck, then around the corner.. other police heard the shots and then shot up another pick up....This is borderline retarded

The same thing would happen in most pd's. 

Bunch of untrained, wannabe's running around. 

99% of the cops i know are bitches w badges.   


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 10:11:37 AM
Yeah...cause it's just a handful


Who said that tard?

Is that the best you've got?

Arguing against shit u made up?




Let's try again....aside from you, who is claiming 'most'.


It's not that hard tard...


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 10:12:46 AM
The same thing would happen in most pd's. 

Bunch of untrained, wannabe's running around. 

99% of the cops i know are bitches w badges.   



DOH!

Well now Blacken has a claim.

I wouldn't agree about 99% but it's clearly more than just a small handful.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 08, 2013, 10:14:24 AM


DOH!

Well now Blacken has a claim.

I wouldn't agree about 99% but it's clearly more than just a small handful.

Majority at least.   


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 08, 2013, 10:15:06 AM

I was pretty neutral about this whole thing because i dont have all the facts and i refuse to read fat LL cool J's manifesto..

But now im think it might be something more because ive never seen the police wild out like this...


Did you know that they shot up this truck, then around the corner.. other police heard the shots and then shot up another pick up....This is borderline retarded




The manifesto is actually well written, but he doesn't seem to back up anything with real proof.

I read the court opinion (or what I think was the court opinion cause it was a site with a strange name) and it seems from reading that  - there exists little evidence to substantiate his claim that another officer kicked the suspect.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 08, 2013, 11:14:56 AM

Yeah...cause it's most of them.  ::)

Cops should be held to a higher standard.

Comes with the job. You are a public servant. These cops are scared people with guns. They are more dangerous than an armed criminal because the law is on their side.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 09, 2013, 06:59:03 AM
Cops should be held to a higher standard.

Comes with the job. You are a public servant. These cops are scared people with guns. They are more dangerous than an armed criminal because the law is on their side.





Yeah, you would think.

Now the Chief is covering for them and they've been put on PAID administrative leave.

Way to cover for the cowards.  Bunch of shitbags.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 09, 2013, 08:18:36 AM


Yeah, you would think.

Now the Chief is covering for them and they've been put on PAID administrative leave.

Way to cover for the cowards.  Bunch of shitbags.

The reason cops are put on paid administrative leave after shootings is two fold. First, until the conclusion of the investigation, the grand jury decision and often times a federal investigation, the cops are still employed by the department, you know, innocent until proven guilty. The other reason is that the cops are compelled to cooperate with an Internal Affairs and often a simultaneous SIU investigation and be available for questioning at any time. If you aren't paying them, you have no control over this. Understand that in many many cases of shootings, the officers have followed policy, followed state laws, and the outcome is they are justified in the shootings. It would be bad policy to have officers sit at home unpaid while awaiting the outcome. Hope this helps


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 09, 2013, 08:32:50 AM
Even though my brother's a cop, I think over the years my respect for them just keeps diminishing further and further.

I get these clowns are scared but opening fire on innocent people because of your cowardice is unacceptable.

How comical that Agnostic tried to claim the cowards get weeded out, lol.  ::)


"And now we come around to the truck-related shooting. Police have been on the lookout for Dorner's truck, a blue 2005 Nissan Titan, and are urging drivers to call 911 if they see it.
 
But around 5:15 a.m. local time, officers mistook the blue Toyota Tacoma driven by two women delivering newspapers for Dorner's truck and fired on it, the TV station reported. The truck pulled up to a house being guarded by police because that homeowner is on Dorner's hit list.
"

1st.. I don't have all the facts on this so this is just a ball park attempt at trying to paint a picture..

I heard in another report the lights were off on the vehicle as it approached. It was delivering papers... I've seen a lot of vehicles delivering papers in the early hours and they tend to drive a little erratic. In fact, one time I was parked in a residential area about 5 in the morning and I see a car weaving from side to side.... I think "Oh, its the paperman delivering papers"... as the car passes me I see a hispanic male totally drunk off his ass. I get behind him and pull him over. As I open the door to his car he just rolls out of his car onto the ground passed out cold. The point is, paper delivery people often drive like that.

So, I'm a cop sitting outside a residence that I'm guarding because some nutcase listed them on a hit list. This same dude executed some people to include a cop stopped at a traffic light. This dude ain't gonna pull up and announce himself before he opens fire on me. So it's 5am and here comes a pickup looking like the one I'm watching out for.. and the lights are off and it isn't driving like all the other vehicles.. If I wait until I see his face, man I'm dead. He has automatic weapons and I'll never win. Shit.. it's stopping at the house! This is it..

Yeah, it's fucked up they shot at a pickup that actually had 2 females in it. Yeah, we expect them not to make those mistakes because they are the police and they are supposed to be better than that. But having been in similar, not quite the exact same but similar circumstances, I can see how it can happen. Doesn't make it okay, but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario a lot of the times.   


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 09, 2013, 08:33:13 AM
The reason cops are put on paid administrative leave after shootings is two fold. First, until the conclusion of the investigation, the grand jury decision and often times a federal investigation, the cops are still employed by the department, you know, innocent until proven guilty. The other reason is that the cops are compelled to cooperate with an Internal Affairs and often a simultaneous SIU investigation and be available for questioning at any time. If you aren't paying them, you have no control over this. Understand that in many many cases of shootings, the officers have followed policy, followed state laws, and the outcome is they are justified in the shootings. It would be bad policy to have officers sit at home unpaid while awaiting the outcome. Hope this helps




No, that doesn't really help at all.

Uh...do you put people in cuffs BEFORE they are proven guilty?
Do you put people in a cell BEFORE they are proven guilty?


Seems to me these shitbags deserve the SAME treatment you levy against everyone else.


As usual, you're just another cop trying to uphold that blue wall and keep yourselves above the people.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 09, 2013, 08:40:31 AM



No, that doesn't really help at all.

Uh...do you put people in cuffs BEFORE they are proven guilty?
Do you put people in a cell BEFORE they are proven guilty?


Seems to me these shitbags deserve the SAME treatment you levy against everyone else.


As usual, you're just another cop trying to uphold that blue wall and keep yourselves above the people.

was just trying to explain the why to you.. you seemed clueless.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Shockwave on February 09, 2013, 08:42:02 AM
Wow.

So much for investigating, calling for backup, perusing, observing and, you know, doing Police Work.

No, opening fire right away will do the trick.
Didn't you know? This is Iraq bro, every suspicious lady delivering papers is a possible insurgent.

These soldiers are just doing their duty bro, can't give the enemy any opportunities.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 09, 2013, 08:45:33 AM
was just trying to explain the why to you.. you seemed clueless.



That's because you're not bright enough to distinguish between understanding and disagreement.


But you keep fighting for that blue wall and denying it exists, buddy.  You've got everyone fooled.  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 09, 2013, 08:51:42 AM


That's because you're not bright enough to distinguish between understanding and disagreement.


But you keep fighting for that blue wall and denying it exists, buddy.  You've got everyone fooled.  ::)

You seem to have a lot of hate.. are you not interested in dialogue or should I just move on and let you rant?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 09, 2013, 10:17:05 AM
You seem to have a lot of hate.. are you not interested in dialogue or should I just move on and let you rant?



Oh...what 'dialogue' do you think we have?

I pointed out they get paid leave.

You claimed they should get special treatment.

I argued they should be treated as equals not as special people above the law.

You called me clueless.

I said you're not too bright.



And now you want to claim I'm ranting?  ::)


Actually, I think I'll pass on your 'dialogue'.  I've demonstrated once too many times on this board about your dishonesty.  Just another blue mouthpiece trying to cover for shitbags.  You're exactly what needs to be weeded out.

Now my 'rant' is over, lol.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 09, 2013, 10:33:40 AM
Does anyone know whether there have been any official releases on this?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 09, 2013, 10:57:44 AM
I heard in another report the lights were off on the vehicle as it approached. It was delivering papers... I've seen a lot of vehicles delivering papers in the early hours and they tend to drive a little erratic. In fact, one time I was parked in a residential area about 5 in the morning and I see a car weaving from side to side.... I think "Oh, its the paperman delivering papers"... as the car passes me I see a hispanic male totally drunk off his ass. I get behind him and pull him over. As I open the door to his car he just rolls out of his car onto the ground passed out cold. The point is, paper delivery people often drive like that.

Since there are a lot of vehicles delivering newspapers in the early hours, and they often drive in such a way, why do you suppose the officers didn't factor it into their reasoning?

So, I'm a cop sitting outside a residence that I'm guarding because some nutcase listed them on a hit list. This same dude executed some people to include a cop stopped at a traffic light. This dude ain't gonna pull up and announce himself before he opens fire on me. So it's 5am and here comes a pickup looking like the one I'm watching out for.. and the lights are off and it isn't driving like all the other vehicles.. If I wait until I see his face, man I'm dead. He has automatic weapons and I'll never win. Shit.. it's stopping at the house! This is it..

Or could it be what you, yourself, rightly say is a very common sight, namely a vehicle delivering newspapers?

Such a vehicle would contain innocent people, right?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 09, 2013, 11:31:01 AM


Yeah, you would think.

Now the Chief is covering for them and they've been put on PAID administrative leave.

Way to cover for the cowards.  Bunch of shitbags.

+1


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 09, 2013, 12:16:48 PM
Since there are a lot of vehicles delivering newspapers in the early hours, and they often drive in such a way, why do you suppose the officers didn't factor it into their reasoning?

Or could it be what you, yourself, rightly say is a very common sight, namely a vehicle delivering newspapers?

Such a vehicle would contain innocent people, right?

Apparently so.. as that was the case. However, I should point out, I wasn't guarding a house on a killers hit list. I made an original false assumption it was a delivery car, when in fact it was a drunk driver. That false assumption wasn't likely to shoot me if I didn't react. Does that make any sense? 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 09, 2013, 12:18:02 PM


Oh...what 'dialogue' do you think we have?

I pointed out they get paid leave.

You claimed they should get special treatment.

I argued they should be treated as equals not as special people above the law.

You called me clueless.

I said you're not too bright.



And now you want to claim I'm ranting?  ::)


Actually, I think I'll pass on your 'dialogue'.  I've demonstrated once too many times on this board about your dishonesty.  Just another blue mouthpiece trying to cover for shitbags.  You're exactly what needs to be weeded out.

Now my 'rant' is over, lol.



I didn't see the part where I said they should be special treatment. I explained why it is the way it is. And you have never demonstrated one time about any dishonesty. Please provide a couple examples of the many times..


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 09, 2013, 02:19:27 PM
Apparently so.. as that was the case. However, I should point out, I wasn't guarding a house on a killers hit list. I made an original false assumption it was a delivery car, when in fact it was a drunk driver. That false assumption wasn't likely to shoot me if I didn't react. Does that make any sense? 

No that does not make any sense.

Are you sure you are a cop ???


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 09, 2013, 03:29:23 PM
Apparently so.. as that was the case. However, I should point out, I wasn't guarding a house on a killers hit list. I made an original false assumption it was a delivery car, when in fact it was a drunk driver. That false assumption wasn't likely to shoot me if I didn't react. Does that make any sense?  

Can you say whether it is conceivable that the cops may have rightly opened fire without attempting to gain compliance?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Roger Bacon on February 09, 2013, 04:45:53 PM
But the anti-gun crowd tells me that the police will protect me if they're the only ones with guns!

I'm so confused!!!!!  ::)

 ;D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 09, 2013, 10:56:11 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,7923212,4755421.story?page=1


WTF!!!! 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 24KT on February 09, 2013, 11:58:26 PM


Exactly.

Now is when the governor needs to send troops in and get these fucking monkey cops under control.

These are the same people who decry vigilantism because it leads to innocents getting hurt.  ::)

Look at what a little bit of uncontrolled fear is doing to these cops.

Are we sure this is a case of uncontrolled fear, ...rather than an objective to make sure he's NOT brought in alive? Could it be that someone, or someones, or even the LAPD themselves want to ensure that what he has to say NEVER reaches the light of day? Seems rather odd that media would be ordered away, ...unless you find media coverage of an execution too problematic to cover-up & suppress? Too many people to bribe, and/or intimidate, ...then too, there's always the risk that despite assurances of discretion, one of them may harbour life-long ambitions of earning a Pulitzer. ???


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 10, 2013, 05:11:21 AM
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Women Shot in Calif. Manhunt Will to Get New Truck
ABC News / The Associated Press ^ | February 10, 2013 | Tami Abdollah
Posted on February 10, 2013 12:05:20 AM EST by 2ndDivisionVet

A mother and daughter newspaper delivery team who were mistakenly shot by Los Angeles police hunting for a fugitive former cop will get a new pickup truck courtesy of the department.

LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith says the department's Chief Charlie Beck met with the women in their Torrance home Saturday to apologize and tell them he had arranged for someone to donate a new pickup truck.

The truck will be donated early this week, Smith said...

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Montague on February 10, 2013, 05:55:01 AM
Are we sure this is a case of uncontrolled fear, ...rather than an objective to make sure he's NOT brought in alive? Could it be that someone, or someones, or even the LAPD themselves want to ensure that what he has to say NEVER reaches the light of day? Seems rather odd that media would be ordered away, ...unless you find media coverage of an execution too problematic to cover-up & suppress? Too many people to bribe, and/or intimidate, ...then too, there's always the risk that despite assurances of discretion, one of them may harbour life-long ambitions of earning a Pulitzer. ???


There is no doubt in my mind that Dorner will not be brought in alive, for both "political" and "personal" reasons.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 10, 2013, 05:57:31 AM

There is no doubt in my mind that Dorner will not be brought in alive, for both "political" and "personal" reasons.

Unless he turns hi self in to a media outlet or YO someone like Jesse Jackson in a public event. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Montague on February 10, 2013, 06:02:35 AM
Unless he turns hi self in to a media outlet or YO someone like Jesse Jackson in a public event. 


Yes, that is probably his only chance if he wants to come out of this alive. Even then, I suspect that someone will eventually get to him; even if it's not until further down the road.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 10, 2013, 07:24:14 AM
I didn't see the part where I said they should be special treatment. I explained why it is the way it is. And you have never demonstrated one time about any dishonesty. Please provide a couple examples of the many times..



Sure....  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=329944.0

Start at page 1 and read on.

So your claim is that you want these cops treated the same as the people who pay their salary?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 10, 2013, 07:31:46 AM
Are we sure this is a case of uncontrolled fear, ...rather than an objective to make sure he's NOT brought in alive? Could it be that someone, or someones, or even the LAPD themselves want to ensure that what he has to say NEVER reaches the light of day? Seems rather odd that media would be ordered away, ...unless you find media coverage of an execution too problematic to cover-up & suppress? Too many people to bribe, and/or intimidate, ...then too, there's always the risk that despite assurances of discretion, one of them may harbour life-long ambitions of earning a Pulitzer. ???



No, I don't think this likely.  He's already had his day in court and from reading the opinion (or what I think was the court opinion), he didn't have much of a case and it went through several appeals and reviews.

There's been more than enough time and opportunity for corrupt cops to off him if they wanted him dead.

Now, at this point, I would agree that they probably don't care if he comes in dead....and if they catch up to him without any media it wouldn't surprise me if they off him and claim self defense.

But shooting up these innocent people is cowardly unacceptable fear.

They paid and trained and expected to control their fear and not harm innocents.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 10, 2013, 07:35:44 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,7923212,4755421.story?page=1


WTF!!!! 



Yeah..."working under incredible tension" is code for being scared shitless.

These douchebags shouldn't be cops....it's that simple.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 10, 2013, 09:59:38 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209,7923212,4755421.story?page=1


WTF!!!! 

How are these people not fired on the spot?

They are worse than the criminals.

Fucking cowards.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 240 is Back on February 10, 2013, 06:51:41 PM
Can anyone speak on this?  Were the vehicles, at least, a match?

i think i read it was completely diff models as well... a tundra and something different?

horrible work by police in that case, just horrible.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 11, 2013, 05:15:33 AM
Can you say whether it is conceivable that the cops may have rightly opened fire without attempting to gain compliance?

In this case, no, it's not conceivable. I can to a certain degree see why it happened, but not that it is justified in happening. Again, I'm not aware of the details, but it could very well be determined at some point that there is a flaw in their plan. For example, if I was assigning officers to guard a house in a similar situation I would not post them in a police unit in front of the house. This leaves them at a huge disadvantage and may force them to make a bad decision. I would have set the officers up for failure if there were the case.

There are times when cops are right to fire before attempting to gain compliance. I don't know if you are asking about that in general or in this specific case. In this specific case, positively identifying the suspect would be step 1. After that, the situation would dictate whether they attempt to gain compliance before firing. They didn't do step 1, so yeah, they screwed the pooch and almost killed innocent people. You shouldn't get do overs on mistakes that big.   

 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 11, 2013, 05:16:47 AM
No that does not make any sense.

Are you sure you are a cop ???

Pretty sure..


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: littledumbells on February 11, 2013, 05:46:03 AM


Exactly.

Now is when the governor needs to send troops in and get these fucking monkey cops under control.

These are the same people who decry vigilantism because it leads to innocents getting hurt.  ::)

Look at what a little bit of uncontrolled fear is doing to these cops.

  Jerry Brown send in troops.?
Thanks, I needed a laugh


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 11, 2013, 08:38:31 AM
In this case, no, it's not conceivable. I can to a certain degree see why it happened, but not that it is justified in happening. Again, I'm not aware of the details, but it could very well be determined at some point that there is a flaw in their plan. For example, if I was assigning officers to guard a house in a similar situation I would not post them in a police unit in front of the house. This leaves them at a huge disadvantage and may force them to make a bad decision. I would have set the officers up for failure if there were the case.

There are times when cops are right to fire before attempting to gain compliance. I don't know if you are asking about that in general or in this specific case. In this specific case, positively identifying the suspect would be step 1. After that, the situation would dictate whether they attempt to gain compliance before firing. They didn't do step 1, so yeah, they screwed the pooch and almost killed innocent people. You shouldn't get do overs on mistakes that big.   

Meaning what, 007?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 11, 2013, 09:04:34 AM
What I wrote earlier is below, addressing how I could see why it might have happened.




And now we come around to the truck-related shooting. Police have been on the lookout for Dorner's truck, a blue 2005 Nissan Titan, and are urging drivers to call 911 if they see it.
 
But around 5:15 a.m. local time, officers mistook the blue Toyota Tacoma driven by two women delivering newspapers for Dorner's truck and fired on it, the TV station reported. The truck pulled up to a house being guarded by police because that homeowner is on Dorner's hit list.
"

1st.. I don't have all the facts on this so this is just a ball park attempt at trying to paint a picture..

I heard in another report the lights were off on the vehicle as it approached. It was delivering papers... I've seen a lot of vehicles delivering papers in the early hours and they tend to drive a little erratic. In fact, one time I was parked in a residential area about 5 in the morning and I see a car weaving from side to side.... I think "Oh, its the paperman delivering papers"... as the car passes me I see a hispanic male totally drunk off his ass. I get behind him and pull him over. As I open the door to his car he just rolls out of his car onto the ground passed out cold. The point is, paper delivery people often drive like that.

So, I'm a cop sitting outside a residence that I'm guarding because some nutcase listed them on a hit list. This same dude executed some people to include a cop stopped at a traffic light. This dude ain't gonna pull up and announce himself before he opens fire on me. So it's 5am and here comes a pickup looking like the one I'm watching out for.. and the lights are off and it isn't driving like all the other vehicles.. If I wait until I see his face, man I'm dead. He has automatic weapons and I'll never win. Shit.. it's stopping at the house! This is it..

Yeah, it's fucked up they shot at a pickup that actually had 2 females in it. Yeah, we expect them not to make those mistakes because they are the police and they are supposed to be better than that. But having been in similar, not quite the exact same but similar circumstances, I can see how it can happen. Doesn't make it okay, but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario a lot of the times.   


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on February 11, 2013, 09:45:28 AM
You seem to have a lot of hate.. are you not interested in dialogue or should I just move on and let you rant?

Maybe if you could explain how any of what you said explains shooting 2 women.

Basically you are validating that it was ok to shoot first and ask questions later because of heightened sense of urgency.

Yeah... That is a perfectly valid reason I'm sure.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 11, 2013, 09:52:12 AM
Maybe if you could explain how any of what you said explains shooting 2 women.

Basically you are validating that it was ok to shoot first and ask questions later because of heightened sense of urgency.

Yeah... That is a perfectly valid reason I'm sure.

No Tu, I was painting a picture of how it could have happened, why I could see it might happen. Nowhere did I ever ever ever say it was okay to shoot first and ask questions later. I think.... if you re-read my posts you will see that not only did I not say that.. I said it was NOT justified. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on February 11, 2013, 10:05:54 AM
No Tu, I was painting a picture of how it could have happened, why I could see it might happen. Nowhere did I ever ever ever say it was okay to shoot first and ask questions later. I think.... if you re-read my posts you will see that not only did I not say that.. I said it was NOT justified. 

Well the tonality of your email certainly implies that you are finding ways to smooth over how stupid these cops were being.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 11, 2013, 10:21:17 AM
You shouldn't get do overs on mistakes that big.   

Please explain this statement, 007.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 11, 2013, 10:21:59 AM
Is it possible to understand why, with a supposed goal that morning to preserve innocent life, the police would egregiously disregard the safety of innocent life?

I'm trying to find a way to believe that the goal was in fact to preserve innocent life, and not, simply, to kill this person.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 11, 2013, 01:55:58 PM
Please explain this statement, 007.

Sorry Jack, it's pretty self explanatory


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 11, 2013, 02:38:44 PM
What I wrote earlier is below, addressing how I could see why it might have happened.




And now we come around to the truck-related shooting. Police have been on the lookout for Dorner's truck, a blue 2005 Nissan Titan, and are urging drivers to call 911 if they see it.
 
But around 5:15 a.m. local time, officers mistook the blue Toyota Tacoma driven by two women delivering newspapers for Dorner's truck and fired on it, the TV station reported. The truck pulled up to a house being guarded by police because that homeowner is on Dorner's hit list.
"

1st.. I don't have all the facts on this so this is just a ball park attempt at trying to paint a picture..

I heard in another report the lights were off on the vehicle as it approached. It was delivering papers... I've seen a lot of vehicles delivering papers in the early hours and they tend to drive a little erratic. In fact, one time I was parked in a residential area about 5 in the morning and I see a car weaving from side to side.... I think "Oh, its the paperman delivering papers"... as the car passes me I see a hispanic male totally drunk off his ass. I get behind him and pull him over. As I open the door to his car he just rolls out of his car onto the ground passed out cold. The point is, paper delivery people often drive like that.

So, I'm a cop sitting outside a residence that I'm guarding because some nutcase listed them on a hit list. This same dude executed some people to include a cop stopped at a traffic light. This dude ain't gonna pull up and announce himself before he opens fire on me. So it's 5am and here comes a pickup looking like the one I'm watching out for.. and the lights are off and it isn't driving like all the other vehicles.. If I wait until I see his face, man I'm dead. He has automatic weapons and I'll never win. Shit.. it's stopping at the house! This is it..

Yeah, it's fucked up they shot at a pickup that actually had 2 females in it. Yeah, we expect them not to make those mistakes because they are the police and they are supposed to be better than that. But having been in similar, not quite the exact same but similar circumstances, I can see how it can happen. Doesn't make it okay, but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario a lot of the times.   


Are you allowed to shot criminals on sight with no warning?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 11, 2013, 02:45:29 PM
Sorry Jack, it's pretty self explanatory

So when you say this:

I can to a certain degree see why it happened

You mean to say how it happened.  Right?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: POB on February 12, 2013, 12:24:06 AM
there are 700,000 cops in the u.s.,i'm sure there are some bad ones,but if you read this thread you would think they're all bad  ::)

And OJ innocent, I wonder what your comment would be if the photo of the officers was different :) :D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 12, 2013, 07:17:09 AM
Are you allowed to shot criminals on sight with no warning?

Scenario:

You get a call at 1:15P there are numerous reports from Getbig Highschool of a person dressed all in black with an assault rifle shooting students.

As you and 3 other units arrive on scene you see chaos, students running from the school, some bleeding badly. As you and your team enter the school, trained to go to the sound of the gunfire you round a corner and see a subject dressed all in black aiming his rifle at a group of students hunkered down in the corner. There are what appears to be dead bodies in the hallway and lots of blood.

Whork, would you announce yourself and tell him to surrender or would you, if you had a clear shot, take him out?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 12, 2013, 07:21:19 AM
Scenario:

You get a call at 1:15P there are numerous reports from Getbig Highschool of a person dressed all in black with an assault rifle shooting students.

As you and 3 other units arrive on scene you see chaos, students running from the school, some bleeding badly. As you and your team enter the school, trained to go to the sound of the gunfire you round a corner and see a subject dressed all in black aiming his rifle at a group of students hunkered down in the corner. There are what appears to be dead bodies in the hallway and lots of blood.

Whork, would you announce yourself and tell him to surrender or would you, if you had a clear shot, take him out?

Bullshit - there were no dead bodies at the scene where those piece of shit cops shot at innocent people. 

Those criminals should be charged w attempted murder. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 12, 2013, 07:29:01 AM
Bullshit - there were no dead bodies at the scene where those piece of shit cops shot at innocent people. 

Those criminals should be charged w attempted murder. 

pay attention 333333333... whork wanted to know if there was ever a time a cop could shoot someone without giving them an opportunity to give up. Yes, there are..I was giving an example


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 12, 2013, 03:22:36 PM
Scenario:

You get a call at 1:15P there are numerous reports from Getbig Highschool of a person dressed all in black with an assault rifle shooting students.

As you and 3 other units arrive on scene you see chaos, students running from the school, some bleeding badly. As you and your team enter the school, trained to go to the sound of the gunfire you round a corner and see a subject dressed all in black aiming his rifle at a group of students hunkered down in the corner. There are what appears to be dead bodies in the hallway and lots of blood.

Whork, would you announce yourself and tell him to surrender or would you, if you had a clear shot, take him out?

Take the shot.

But thats not what happened here.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 12, 2013, 03:40:10 PM
Had hoped to see some follow-up, involving an explanation from LAPD, but no dice...

As far as I know, these cops are still cops.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 12, 2013, 03:42:10 PM
To be fair to 007, he was talking about something else (as he said).


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 12, 2013, 04:52:51 PM
If an explanation were not given, and the individuals remained as cops, would you be upset, 007?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 12, 2013, 06:01:45 PM
The dramatic manhunt for a fugitive ex-LAPD cop who killed at least four people apparently ended when the rural California cabin he holed up in went up in flames, with ammunition exploding in the inferno and smoke billowing up into the mountain air.
 
Christopher Dorner, who hours earlier had killed one San Bernadino sheriff's deputy and wounded another before barricading himself in the cabin, in the San Bernadino mountains, was believed to be inside. Dorner, who vowed not to be taken alive, had been surrounded inside the cabin since early Tuesday afternoon. It was not clear who set the fire in the Big Bear community where Dorner apparently has been hiding since sometime last week.
 
It was a stunning end to a saga that gripped the nation, and had the nation's third-largest police department on tenterhooks for a week. Dorner, a former Navy man and highly trained marksman, had vowed revenge on the department he believed had wronged him - designating specific targets for death. As flames devoured the cabin, police stood by, confident that there was no escape for Dorner, and no way he could survive the blaze - assuming he had not already taken his own life. One law enforcement source told The Associated Press a single shot was heard inside the cabin before the fire broke out.
 
San Bernardino Sheriff Spokesperson Cindy Bachman told reporters that they will not enter the structure until it is safe to do so.

this is from fox so take it with a grain of salt,hope he's dead

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/12/fugitive-ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities-ap-source-says/#ixzz2KjyBanoq


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 24KT on February 13, 2013, 01:11:10 AM
Can you imagine the pandemonium that will break out if they go in after the fire burns itself out, and they don't find a body? ...Or if upon retrieving a dead body from the cabin, it is determined to NOT be Dorner?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 13, 2013, 07:44:50 AM
Take the shot.

But thats not what happened here.

agreed
You asked, are you allowed to shoot criminals on sight without warning. The answer is yes, in some cases. Obviously what happened on that street wasn't one of them. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 13, 2013, 07:56:06 AM
If an explanation were not given, and the individuals remained as cops, would you be upset, 007?

Jack, yes but this is what happens at least at my dept. In every police involved shooting once the shooting is done and the scene secured, calls are made to a special investigations unit, a shooting team comprised of various ranks and backgrounds, an internal affairs unit, and the area commander. The SIU will investigate the scene focusing on criminal violations. The I.A. unit will investigate focusing on Dept Policy Violations, the shooting team will work in conjunction with both units to determine if the shoot falls within state and local guidelines. Then a Grand Jury will get involved to determine to bill or no bill the officers involved based on the evidence. These investigations usually take a couple months to complete. Grand Jury can be a lot longer. Diagrams are done, CAD reproductions are done and the officers are required to participate in recreations that are video taped.

On occasion civilian organizations will demand the FBI do an investigation as well.  So the head honchos are always reluctant to talk about specifics before the investigations are complete because they don't want egg on their face if their perception or early indicators of what happen turn out to be wrong later. They will speak in generalities for the most part. We had a chief at one time who's policy was to never speak to the media about an ongoing investigation. This was stupid because by the time 6 months had passed, the media and citizens who only had the media fodder to play with, had already done so much damage that when the facts came out, it made little difference. The Chief should say "This is an ongoing investigation, but there is indication that ______ may have happened. This may not be born out in the investigation but that's what we're looking at now.

 

 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 13, 2013, 08:13:42 AM
Jack, yes but this is what happens at least at my dept. In every police involved shooting once the shooting is done and the scene secured, calls are made to a special investigations unit, a shooting team comprised of various ranks and backgrounds, an internal affairs unit, and the area commander. The SIU will investigate the scene focusing on criminal violations. The I.A. unit will investigate focusing on Dept Policy Violations, the shooting team will work in conjunction with both units to determine if the shoot falls within state and local guidelines. Then a Grand Jury will get involved to determine to bill or no bill the officers involved based on the evidence. These investigations usually take a couple months to complete. Grand Jury can be a lot longer. Diagrams are done, CAD reproductions are done and the officers are required to participate in recreations that are video taped.

On occasion civilian organizations will demand the FBI do an investigation as well.  So the head honchos are always reluctant to talk about specifics before the investigations are complete because they don't want egg on their face if their perception or early indicators of what happen turn out to be wrong later. They will speak in generalities for the most part. We had a chief at one time who's policy was to never speak to the media about an ongoing investigation. This was stupid because by the time 6 months had passed, the media and citizens who only had the media fodder to play with, had already done so much damage that when the facts came out, it made little difference. The Chief should say "This is an ongoing investigation, but there is indication that ______ may have happened. This may not be born out in the investigation but that's what we're looking at now.

Can you envision a scenario that would absolve these individuals?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 13, 2013, 08:19:11 AM
Can you imagine the pandemonium that will break out if they go in after the fire burns itself out, and they don't find a body? ...Or if upon retrieving a dead body from the cabin, it is determined to NOT be Dorner?

I have gotten to the point where the media has become absolutely, positively unreliable to me in any way.  I wouldn't trust a single further word about this issue or any other.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Archer77 on February 13, 2013, 08:27:17 AM
I have gotten to the point where the media has become absolutely, positively unreliable to me in any way.  I wouldn't trust a single further word about this issue or any other.

I couldn't agree more.  They knowingly make shit up or present information they know is inaccurate in order to keep people watching.  This is one of the main reason conspiracy theories flourish.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 13, 2013, 09:59:52 AM
I couldn't agree more.  They knowingly make shit up or present information they know is inaccurate in order to keep people watching.  This is one of the main reason conspiracy theories flourish.

As I say, there's definitely "something" about the media.  I'd love to know what it is.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 13, 2013, 03:23:07 PM
The dramatic manhunt for a fugitive ex-LAPD cop who killed at least four people apparently ended when the rural California cabin he holed up in went up in flames, with ammunition exploding in the inferno and smoke billowing up into the mountain air.
 
Christopher Dorner, who hours earlier had killed one San Bernadino sheriff's deputy and wounded another before barricading himself in the cabin, in the San Bernadino mountains, was believed to be inside. Dorner, who vowed not to be taken alive, had been surrounded inside the cabin since early Tuesday afternoon. It was not clear who set the fire in the Big Bear community where Dorner apparently has been hiding since sometime last week.
 
It was a stunning end to a saga that gripped the nation, and had the nation's third-largest police department on tenterhooks for a week. Dorner, a former Navy man and highly trained marksman, had vowed revenge on the department he believed had wronged him - designating specific targets for death. As flames devoured the cabin, police stood by, confident that there was no escape for Dorner, and no way he could survive the blaze - assuming he had not already taken his own life. One law enforcement source told The Associated Press a single shot was heard inside the cabin before the fire broke out.
 
San Bernardino Sheriff Spokesperson Cindy Bachman told reporters that they will not enter the structure until it is safe to do so.

this is from fox so take it with a grain of salt,hope he's dead

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/12/fugitive-ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities-ap-source-says/#ixzz2KjyBanoq





He gave em every reason to take him dead and that's what they did.

And jumping to another jurisdiction I think just further mitigates the conspiracy angle.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 13, 2013, 03:24:41 PM
I couldn't agree more.  They knowingly make shit up or present information they know is inaccurate in order to keep people watching.  This is one of the main reason conspiracy theories flourish.




Gotta disagree with that one and just look at this board as a great example.

Anyone with even the most basic common sense understands that initial reports are fluid and subject to change.

Yet these CT'rs will cling to these reports as though they are undeniable fact....regardless of how often the reporters repeatedly indicate that they are getting mixed reports, changing reports, and updated information from numerous sources.

The CT'r just keeps mindlessly going to that one report where they said such and such and so now the government is covering up everything and blah blah...you get the point.

That and look at how many on the board can't distinguish opinion from news!


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 13, 2013, 03:36:49 PM



Gotta disagree with that one and just look at this board as a great example.

Anyone with even the most basic common sense understands that initial reports are fluid and subject to change.

Yet these CT'rs will cling to these reports as though they are undeniable fact....regardless of how often the reporters repeatedly indicate that they are getting mixed reports, changing reports, and updated information from numerous sources.

The CT'r just keeps mindlessly going to that one report where they said such and such and so now the government is covering up everything and blah blah...you get the point.

That and look at how many on the board can't distinguish opinion from news!

Please give a specific example.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 13, 2013, 07:43:32 PM
Please give a specific example.



You're seriously not familiar with the 9/11 truthers and their arguments?

Hell Blacken runs 5-6 gimmick accounts that are all 9/11 truthers (in addition to his other gimmicks).

Read the CT board...just not possible, in my mind, for that level of idiocy to be blamed on the media cause they fuck things up or give opinions that aren't liked.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 13, 2013, 09:21:28 PM


You're seriously not familiar with the 9/11 truthers and their arguments?

Hell Blacken runs 5-6 gimmick accounts that are all 9/11 truthers (in addition to his other gimmicks).

Read the CT board...just not possible, in my mind, for that level of idiocy to be blamed on the media cause they fuck things up or give opinions that aren't liked.

I'd be happy to argue 911 with you at any time, friend.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 14, 2013, 07:41:23 AM
Please give a specific example.

Skip don't give specifics.. He says things like he's shown you to be dishonest many times.. then when you ask him to provide examples he changes the subject or drops the conversation..


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 14, 2013, 08:06:37 AM
Skip don't give specifics.. He says things like he's shown you to be dishonest many times.. then when you ask him to provide examples he changes the subject or drops the conversation..

I have never said that to anyone, 007, and I've never dropped a conversation.  Please back that up.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 14, 2013, 08:15:06 AM
lol..it's a bit early here.  I got it.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 14, 2013, 01:46:56 PM
I have never said that to anyone, 007, and I've never dropped a conversation.  Please back that up.


Skip recently stated he has shown me on many occasions to be dishonest. I asked him to back it up with examples and got crickets


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 14, 2013, 01:47:26 PM
lol..it's a bit early here.  I got it.

I should read a few posts in before responding ...


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 14, 2013, 02:16:53 PM


You're seriously not familiar with the 9/11 truthers and their arguments?

Hell Blacken runs 5-6 gimmick accounts that are all 9/11 truthers (in addition to his other gimmicks).

Read the CT board...just not possible, in my mind, for that level of idiocy to be blamed on the media cause they fuck things up or give opinions that aren't liked.

you making shit up skippy,between you lying and others that can't admit their wrong,this site is going to shit  :D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 14, 2013, 03:09:11 PM
I should read a few posts in before responding ...

Yeah, I'd seen the exchange before.  My brain has been out of gear today.  :)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 14, 2013, 04:20:35 PM

Skip recently stated he has shown me on many occasions to be dishonest. I asked him to back it up with examples and got crickets



Damn dude...yet ANOTHER lie from you.  I responded on page 3.  I provided you a link.

And I followed up with a question to the other part of your post.  And you cowered from it like a little bitch.

How is that crickets?


The public most be soooo proud to have a dishonest shitbag like you with arrest powers.  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 14, 2013, 04:21:33 PM
Oh...and if you want to get real specific, go to page 21 where you kept lying about the whole Commander Nyert suspension and denying the media reports.

Then when I posted the actual memo...it was checkmate...and you just couldn't lie anymore.

You were dishonest in that thread.

You are dishonest in this thread.


Serial dishonesty.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 14, 2013, 04:24:30 PM
I'd be happy to argue 911 with you at any time, friend.



Yeah, I know Jack....people tend to feel strongly.  I won't debate it with you, but I can see you understand where I was going.

I just can't see blaming the media for CTs.

But, I don't want that to sound like the media is always honest or shouldn't be held accountable by their viewers.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Fury on February 14, 2013, 04:27:53 PM


You're seriously not familiar with the 9/11 truthers and their arguments?

Hell Blacken runs 5-6 gimmick accounts that are all 9/11 truthers (in addition to his other gimmicks).

Read the CT board...just not possible, in my mind, for that level of idiocy to be blamed on the media cause they fuck things up or give opinions that aren't liked.

Creepy, jobless degenerate. I've still got the creepy PMs from his MonsVenus account. That's the gimmick where he claimed to be special-forces-turned-multi-millionaire-businessman.  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 14, 2013, 04:35:05 PM
Creepy, jobless degenerate. I've still got the creepy PMs from his MonsVenus account. That's the gimmick where he claimed to be special-forces-turned-multi-millionaire-businessman.  ::)


i guess when you have nothing to do but make cookies with your mommy your mind will tend to wander and you will start making shit up  ;D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 14, 2013, 04:38:12 PM
Ok...just read Primemuscles treatise on class.

So I apologize to Agnostic for calling him a shitbag.

Completely unclassy move.

But...as I've established multiple times....you are dishonest.







i guess when you have nothing to do but make cookies with your mommy your mind will tend to wander and you will start making shit up  ;D


Thanks for the confession....but we knew.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on February 14, 2013, 04:55:20 PM
Ok...just read Primemuscles treatise on class.

So I apologize to Agnostic for calling him a shitbag.

Completely unclassy move.

But...as I've established multiple times....you are dishonest.







Thanks for the confession....but we knew.



read it again skippy,only you could see that as a confession,but we all know you're not very truthfull.still nice to see you stand by your man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMXnu31-k_U


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 24KT on February 14, 2013, 07:02:19 PM
The police are claiming the fire in the cabin was an accident, ...despite the fact that police were caught on tape saying things like "Burn it down" "Burn the motherfucker down!" Oh ya, ...an accident.  ::)

This stinks. I find it hard to believe that someone who goes all Rambo on the cops is then going to sing the praises of gun control, ...but since Dorner is supposedly dead, ...we will never know if that supposed manifesto was actually penned by him will we, ...or if this was simply just another example of the hegelian dialectic in action.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on February 15, 2013, 08:33:25 AM


Damn dude...yet ANOTHER lie from you.  I responded on page 3.  I provided you a link.

And I followed up with a question to the other part of your post.  And you cowered from it like a little bitch.

How is that crickets?


The public most be soooo proud to have a dishonest shitbag like you with arrest powers.  ::)

First, let me say Skip did respond. I missed it. My bad. Sorry Skip.

Second, here is my response from the original posts you used as your example that I was dishonest.

" Skip I read the letter and you are right! I was talking about an incident that happened 5 yrs ago from memory but I do recall the officer direct filed the case to avoid getting it reviewed. The officer not only charged the guy with Public Intoxication, but he added Assault on a Police officer or resisting arrest, I can't recall which charge but had he not done that he may have gotten away with it. Because he placed that bogus charge on the guy it was reviewed by the D.A. who raised the flag.

I'm no blue wall, I'm just old. I remember viewing the tape in a room full of officers. I was appauled by the officers actions and to me he was clearly using excessive force. I was surprised that a few officer looking at the same tape thought it was "borderline". I didn't think it was borderline at all and I was not happy with the arbitrators decision. Most of the force wasn't.

I recall his lawsuit against the Chief. She was the decision maker and therefore the only one he could sue. Again, I thought it was a baseless lawsuit and it was. "

There is a difference in being dishonest and being mistaken. I was going off memory of the incident rather than looking up the facts as you did. That was lazy on my part and taught me a pretty good lesson on here which is to make an effort to research before posting as my memory isnt what it used to be. But dishonest... nope. 




Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 17, 2013, 09:01:29 AM


read it again skippy,only you could see that as a confession,but we all know you're not very truthfull.still nice to see you stand by your man






Just spitballing here, but I'm sensing some gay overtones in your post.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 17, 2013, 09:03:09 AM
The police are claiming the fire in the cabin was an accident, ...despite the fact that police were caught on tape saying things like "Burn it down" "Burn the motherfucker down!" Oh ya, ...an accident.  ::)

This stinks. I find it hard to believe that someone who goes all Rambo on the cops is then going to sing the praises of gun control, ...but since Dorner is supposedly dead, ...we will never know if that supposed manifesto was actually penned by him will we, ...or if this was simply just another example of the hegelian dialectic in action.



They had no intention of trying to take him alive, but it was San Bernadino that got him...not a LAPD.  And the more removed the LAPD is, the less credence I think a nefarious CT has.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 17, 2013, 09:04:33 AM
LAPD in the cross hairs

Christopher Dorner may be dead, but the police response to the crisis raises troubling questions.

February 14, 2013

Police investigators work around a blue pickup truck riddled with bullets… (Los Angeles Times )


The manhunt for Christopher Dorner in one sense ended successfully: Assuming that the body recovered from the burnt-out home in Big Bear is his, Dorner's rampage is over, and he won't harm anyone again. Yet it's hard to cheer an episode that left four people dead and that featured police officers firing wildly on innocent civilians in their determination to eradicate a man who had threatened them.

It's understandable that police would be enraged by Dorner. He openly declared war on all law enforcement officers and embarked on a killing spree specifically aimed at his former colleagues. But how does that justify the actions of the officers who shot into a truck driven by two newspaper carriers, Maggie Carranza and Emma Hernandez? Carranza is a 47-year-old Latina who was driving a blue Toyota with Hernandez, her 71-year-old mother; officers somehow mistook those two women for a burly African American man driving a gray Nissan. And, in their zeal or under the impression that any force would be tolerated in these circumstances, officers fired away, hitting Hernandez twice in the back. Both women lived, testament to the poor aim, not the good judgment, of the officers.

To be clear: Their actions would be worrisome even if Dorner had been behind the wheel of that truck. Force, including lethal force, is a necessary part of police work, but it may be used only to protect officers or others from harm. It is to be wielded to ensure safety, not to exact vengeance. While it is especially offensive to have that force used against innocent people, it's even improper to use it in this fashion against the guilty.

The Los Angeles Police Department has committed itself to reviewing Dorner's dismissal and the allegations he made in his loopy online manifesto. That's fine, though the results of that inquiry seem fairly obvious: It would shock any fair-minded observer of today's LAPD to discover that academy recruits were, as Dorner claimed, breaking into verses of songs of the Hitler Youth. Still, self-reflection is valuable and should offer a reminder that while racism is no longer openly practiced at the LAPD, eliminating even its vestiges should remain a priority for an institution once afflicted by it.

The more important inquiry, however, ought to be the department's analysis of the shocking and wrongful assault on the truck carrying Carranza and Hernandez. Overzealousness may be understandable in the terrifying circumstances that confronted Southern California over the last week, but police work depends on restraint and care, both of which were lacking.




http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/14/opinion/la-ed-dorner-lapd-20130214


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 17, 2013, 09:05:39 AM
102 shots.

These shitbags fired 102 shots at these innocent women and still (THANKFULLY) didn't kill them.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on February 17, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
102 shots.

These shitbags fired 102 shots at these innocent women and still (THANKFULLY) didn't kill them.



How many cops were there?

102 shots? What the hell were they shooting with?

Fuck that's ridiculous.

*Edit... I saw it was 7 cops*


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on February 17, 2013, 11:21:01 AM
102 shots.

These shitbags fired 102 shots at these innocent women and still (THANKFULLY) didn't kill them.



Tax dollars put to good use :-\


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Shockwave on February 17, 2013, 01:00:06 PM
102 shots.

These shitbags fired 102 shots at these innocent women and still (THANKFULLY) didn't kill them.


Well, at least we now know why DHS bought all those rounds... they're clearly banking on the fact that their employees couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 50 feet.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 17, 2013, 01:22:37 PM
Well, at least we now know why DHS bought all those rounds... they're clearly banking on the fact that their employees couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 50 feet.



:D

Very fortunate for those women.

I'm thinking all those movies where the cops unload and the bad guys come bursting out and get away may have a modicum of truth based in reality.


Also, I heard on the radion that he was holed up 100 yards away from the command post the cops had set up.




Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 22, 2013, 06:38:47 AM
The Los Angeles police officers who mistakenly shot at two newspaper delivery women in their truck in Torrance thinking it was the vehicle of fugitive ex-cop Christopher Dorner will be kept out of the field until an investigation into the shooting is complete, Chief Charlie Beck said.
 
The seven officers were working a protection detail Feb. 7 near the home of a high-ranking LAPD official who was a potential target for Dorner when they riddled the women's blue Toyota Tacoma truck with bullets after mistaking it for Dorner's gray Nissan truck.
 
The shooting occured after the officers received a radio call that a pickup truck had exited the freeway and was heading their way.
 
PHOTOS: Manhunt for ex-LAPD officer
 
Dorner, who authorities say subsequently shot himself after a siege at a Big Bear-area cabin, had at the time already killed the daughter of a former LAPD captain, her boyfriend (a USC police officer) and a Riverside police officer.
 
"I have done my initial 72-hour review on the Torrance shooting and I have taken the officers involved out of the field and they will stay out of the field until the investigation is complete," Beck said Tuesday. "At that point I will make a determination whether they need to be disciplined."
 
Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, were delivering newspapers in Torrance when LAPD officers shot Hernandez twice in the back. Carranza sustained minor injuries from broken glass or possibly a bullet fragment, according to her attorney.


Full:  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/lapd-chief-officers-who-mistook-women-for-dorner-off-patrol-til-probe-complete.html






Disciplined!

Unfucking real.  These shitbags need to be prosecuted and thrown in fucking prison.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 22, 2013, 06:42:46 AM
If any of us did that we would go to prison and be sued. 



The Los Angeles police officers who mistakenly shot at two newspaper delivery women in their truck in Torrance thinking it was the vehicle of fugitive ex-cop Christopher Dorner will be kept out of the field until an investigation into the shooting is complete, Chief Charlie Beck said.
 
The seven officers were working a protection detail Feb. 7 near the home of a high-ranking LAPD official who was a potential target for Dorner when they riddled the women's blue Toyota Tacoma truck with bullets after mistaking it for Dorner's gray Nissan truck.
 
The shooting occured after the officers received a radio call that a pickup truck had exited the freeway and was heading their way.
 
PHOTOS: Manhunt for ex-LAPD officer
 
Dorner, who authorities say subsequently shot himself after a siege at a Big Bear-area cabin, had at the time already killed the daughter of a former LAPD captain, her boyfriend (a USC police officer) and a Riverside police officer.
 
"I have done my initial 72-hour review on the Torrance shooting and I have taken the officers involved out of the field and they will stay out of the field until the investigation is complete," Beck said Tuesday. "At that point I will make a determination whether they need to be disciplined."
 
Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, were delivering newspapers in Torrance when LAPD officers shot Hernandez twice in the back. Carranza sustained minor injuries from broken glass or possibly a bullet fragment, according to her attorney.


Full:  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/lapd-chief-officers-who-mistook-women-for-dorner-off-patrol-til-probe-complete.html






Disciplined!

Unfucking real.  These shitbags need to be prosecuted and thrown in fucking prison.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 22, 2013, 09:21:04 AM
Quote
The shooting occured after the officers received a radio call that a pickup truck had exited the freeway and was heading their way.

It's looking much, much worse for the cops as it goes.

Quote
Dorner, who authorities say subsequently shot himself...

Interesting way of putting it.  I'm glad the writer doesn't automatically buy what the cops say.
 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on February 22, 2013, 09:25:00 AM
If any of us did that we would go to prison and be sued. 




Absolutely... How is no one held accountable for this YET?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on February 22, 2013, 09:37:03 AM
I can only imagine the backroom bullshit that takes place with the insurance contracting, because if absolutely no one else pressures the cops to resolve this in a meaningful way, the insurance provider should be INSISTING on it.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 22, 2013, 10:32:47 AM
Absolutely... How is no one held accountable for this YET?



Maybe it's acceptable in LA to try and murder minorities if you wear a badge and you're scared?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Option D on February 22, 2013, 07:38:59 PM


Maybe it's acceptable in LA to try and murder minorities if you wear a badge and you're scared?


Sad to say.. but it seems like that.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 22, 2013, 07:42:49 PM

Sad to say.. but it seems like that.

Same w most police depArtments.   Taxpayer financed street gangs


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 12, 2013, 04:00:34 PM
No Bueno! Women Accidentally Shot By LAPD Won’t Get New Truck, Despite Promises




It's been over a month since LAPD Chief Charlie Beck promised a new truck to Emma Hernandez, 71, and her daughter, Margie Carranza, the two newspaper delivery women who were shot at during the manhunt for Christopher Dorner.
 
But it turns out the two women will not be getting a new replacement truck as promised by the LAPD after all, according to their attorney Glen Jonas.
 
NBC LA reports:
 

Police said it was a "case of mistaken identity" that prompted officers to open fire on the women. Beck later apologized and promised to replace their truck, now riddled with bullet holes.
 
According to Jonas, LAPD and Galpin Ford wanted his clients to pose for a photo opportunity and pay income tax on the truck. The women no longer want the truck after they were told they needed to fill out a 1099 form for the donation, Jonas said Monday.
 
"You tried to murder the woman, now you're telling her she can't have a four-wheel drive, you're telling her she can't sell it and you've got to be taxed on it?" Jonas said. "How would anyone react to that?"
 
Jonas plans on filing a government claim, which is a precursor to any lawsuit filed against a government agency. He said he felt the truck was being touted as a "reward or prize" instead of a sincere gesture by the LAPD.
 
Galpin Ford estimates the value of the truck – a 2013 Ford 150 SuperCrew – at $32,560. The dealership had planned on paying the sales tax, vehicle registration and title on the truck, according to a dealership spokesperson.
 
"It's really sad for us because we want to help these women move on with their lives, and help them move forward with that, we just can't get past the 1099 issue," LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith said. "The government has to take their bite out of it, I guess."
 
The women's Toyota Tacoma was pierced with 102 bullet holes from the Feb. 7 shooting.



Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/emma-hernandez-women-accidentally-shot-lapd-wont-get-new-truck-despite-promises-photos#ixzz2NNByQXbp






And still no criminal charges against these shitbags.  Unfuckingreal!



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 24KT on March 12, 2013, 04:30:02 PM
No Bueno! Women Accidentally Shot By LAPD Won’t Get New Truck, Despite Promises

And still no criminal charges against these shitbags.  Unfuckingreal!


They're not the only ones. Far too many shitbags these days.

Why Cops Fear SHTF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmGWLsn0iM


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 12, 2013, 05:37:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKVSNjlSp0


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 12, 2013, 05:52:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKVSNjlSp0



Great watch.  Fucking disgusting display of cowardice.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 12, 2013, 05:57:34 PM


Great watch.  Fucking disgusting display of cowardice.

People wonder why i detest cops - this clip shows why


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 14, 2013, 04:14:20 PM
Margie Carranza, Emma Hernandez Reach Agreement With LA Over Replacement Truck (UPDATE)


The City of Los Angeles will step up to provide $40,000 to shooting victims Margie Carranza and Emma Hernandez after the Los Angeles Police Department failed to follow through on their promise to replace a truck they had destroyed, reports the Los Angeles Times.

LAPD officers pumped over 100 bullets into their pickup truck during the early hours of Feb. 7 during the frenzied hunt for fugitive Christopher Dorner. LAPD police had mistakenly identified the two women, delivering newspapers in a Torrance, Calif. neighborhood, as Dorner despite the fact that they were driving a different color and model of truck than Dorner's getaway vehicle.

Carranza, 47, suffered injuries from broken glass, while her mother Hernandez, 71, took two bullets in the back. Two days after surviving the shooting, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck publicly promised to replace the women's truck -- but more than a month later, the vehicle still hadn't materialized, reports the Times.

At the heart of the conflict over the donated truck was the fact that Carranza and Hernandez would have had to claim the vehicle on an income tax form, which meant they would have had to pay taxes on the truck. Neither the private business donating the truck, not the LAPD, wanted to pay the income tax for the victims.

Carranza and Hernandez will reportedly receive an undisclosed amount of money to purchase a new truck, but attorney Glen Jonas told HuffPost Tuesday that he still plans on filing a government claim, which a precursor to a lawsuit, on behalf of his clients against the LAPD over the shooting incident.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/margie-carranza-emma-hernandez_n_2879391.html


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Option D on March 15, 2013, 07:42:34 AM
Margie Carranza, Emma Hernandez Reach Agreement With LA Over Replacement Truck (UPDATE)


The City of Los Angeles will step up to provide $40,000 to shooting victims Margie Carranza and Emma Hernandez after the Los Angeles Police Department failed to follow through on their promise to replace a truck they had destroyed, reports the Los Angeles Times.

LAPD officers pumped over 100 bullets into their pickup truck during the early hours of Feb. 7 during the frenzied hunt for fugitive Christopher Dorner. LAPD police had mistakenly identified the two women, delivering newspapers in a Torrance, Calif. neighborhood, as Dorner despite the fact that they were driving a different color and model of truck than Dorner's getaway vehicle.

Carranza, 47, suffered injuries from broken glass, while her mother Hernandez, 71, took two bullets in the back. Two days after surviving the shooting, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck publicly promised to replace the women's truck -- but more than a month later, the vehicle still hadn't materialized, reports the Times.

At the heart of the conflict over the donated truck was the fact that Carranza and Hernandez would have had to claim the vehicle on an income tax form, which meant they would have had to pay taxes on the truck. Neither the private business donating the truck, not the LAPD, wanted to pay the income tax for the victims.

Carranza and Hernandez will reportedly receive an undisclosed amount of money to purchase a new truck, but attorney Glen Jonas told HuffPost Tuesday that he still plans on filing a government claim, which a precursor to a lawsuit, on behalf of his clients against the LAPD over the shooting incident.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/margie-carranza-emma-hernandez_n_2879391.html
This is the type of shit that makes me embarrased to say im from LA... Thats the first thing they say "man the LAPD  is fucked huh" ...its not all the time they do retarded shit...but when they do fuck up, they make sure its big. There are some good cops. I ve met one before, i think. You and 333 have a point Skip.. the people they hire have mental problems. My god brother is a cop... and he is a complete dick...


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 15, 2013, 08:03:47 AM
People wonder why i detest cops - this clip shows why

So I really have to post articles and clips of the following professions screwing up to make my point your argument is invalid?

School teacher
Fireman
Defense Lawyer
Prosecutor
Preacher
Priest
Nurse
Doctor




Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 15, 2013, 08:31:12 AM
So I really have to post articles and clips of the following professions screwing up to make my point your argument is invalid?

School teacher
Fireman
Defense Lawyer
Prosecutor
Preacher
Priest
Nurse
Doctor





the difference is that when I fuck up I get sued, disbarred, and pay the price.

When a cop fucks up he is usually promoted and sticks the taxpayer w the tab. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: JBGRAY on March 15, 2013, 09:43:12 AM
 It is more scandalizing when a cop gets away with something, but more often than not that is not the case.  When a cop fucks up, it is likely he is going to lose his house, his job, his retirement, his family, and quite possibly, his freedom.  Cops are literally dancing on the edge, they have a lot of scrutiny levied on them.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 15, 2013, 09:47:30 AM
It is more scandalizing when a cop gets away with something, but more often than not that is not the case.  When a cop fucks up, it is likely he is going to lose his house, his job, his retirement, his family, and quite possibly, his freedom.  Cops are literally dancing on the edge, they have a lot of scrutiny levied on them.



Bullshit.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 15, 2013, 09:58:27 AM
When a cop fucks up "in the line of duty", he is given the benefit of doubt regarding his intentions.  The newspaper-women case is a perfect example.  Something so utterly outrageous has been passed upon, by the media AND by the LAPD, themselves.  Think about that.

The fact that these officers were physically placed in the position that led to such a shooting, needs to be concluded with firings and with criminal charges.  But I haven't seen any sign that it will.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 15, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
...don't know about anyone else, but seems to me that such an outrageous event is being glossed over simply because the intent of the officers was supposedly in the right (at least some would try to say their intent was in the right...even though that, too, is false).


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 15, 2013, 03:47:17 PM
Bullshit.

+2


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 15, 2013, 03:50:34 PM
+2

Not sure if that guy is being serious...ever.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 15, 2013, 04:09:04 PM

the difference is that when I fuck up I get sued, disbarred, and pay the price.

When a cop fucks up he is usually promoted and sticks the taxpayer w the tab. 

Not to mention that the odds of you fucking up and killing someone are pretty slim

I didn't know that when Teachers, priests, and firemen just "screw up", people are wrongly put in prisons or killed.

I think it's funny that cops want to be held to a higher standard, such as their word when they are in court and what not, but if they fuck up, wait wait wait... I'm only human.

::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 17, 2013, 05:03:53 PM

the difference is that when I fuck up I get sued, disbarred, and pay the price.

When a cop fucks up he is usually promoted and sticks the taxpayer w the tab. 



True...and I've said this repeatedly, public officials are far too lacking in accountability.  The other public professions that Agnostic listed are in the same boat.  There needs to be far more accountability and the punishment must be commesurate.  All too often those in public service are getting away with a slap on wrist.  That leaves a bad taste in the public's mouth and that non-sense needs to stop immediately.

There's no reason these shitbags haven't been charged yet.  Bullshit on the investigation taking this long.

They're looking for reasons to excuse their actions.

I will very very shocked if criminal charges are made.

Let's hope for one good DA to do the right thing.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Option D on March 21, 2013, 10:30:15 PM
Not to mention that the odds of you fucking up and killing someone are pretty slim

I didn't know that when Teachers, priests, and firemen just "screw up", people are wrongly put in prisons or killed.

I think it's funny that cops want to be held to a higher standard, such as their word when they are in court and what not, but if they fuck up, wait wait wait... I'm only human.

::)
qft


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 22, 2013, 09:44:23 AM
Not to mention that the odds of you fucking up and killing someone are pretty slim

I didn't know that when Teachers, priests, and firemen just "screw up", people are wrongly put in prisons or killed.

I think it's funny that cops want to be held to a higher standard, such as their word when they are in court and what not, but if they fuck up, wait wait wait... I'm only human.

::)

Cops should be held to a higher standard when it comes to honesty, integrity, work ethic, professionalism. Not that a vast majority of the public are not good people but ALL citizens who choose to wear the blue uniform should be those things without exception.

If a cop is shown to be lying, fire him or her, charge them with perjury if that is prosecutable. If a cop is shown to have used excessive force, fire them, charge them with whatever charges are appropriate to the incident. Where I think many of you part ways with me is in a more gray area. Often times, just by the nature of the job, cops are in precarious situations and have to deal with people where the outcome may not be all that pleasant for the citizen. Often times, cops are required to resolve situations and in doing so, outcomes aren't what was expected. Sometimes they screw up but they were doing their best in a bad situation, where there was often, given the set of circumstances, not much of a chance for success no matter how they handled it. In those situations, because I know how difficult it can be to make those decisions under pressure, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am more understanding.

But for everytime someone says "I'm not saying all cops are bad, just most are worthless scum" I've said "I'm not saying all cops are good, just most of them" And I've never shied away from calling a duck a duck when some cop steps on his whanker or screws the pooch.

So on those occassions, when they say wait a minute, I'm only human"... it's probably because they are       


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 22, 2013, 02:16:34 PM
Cops should be held to a higher standard when it comes to honesty, integrity, work ethic, professionalism. Not that a vast majority of the public are not good people but ALL citizens who choose to wear the blue uniform should be those things without exception.

If a cop is shown to be lying, fire him or her, charge them with perjury if that is prosecutable. If a cop is shown to have used excessive force, fire them, charge them with whatever charges are appropriate to the incident. Where I think many of you part ways with me is in a more gray area. Often times, just by the nature of the job, cops are in precarious situations and have to deal with people where the outcome may not be all that pleasant for the citizen. Often times, cops are required to resolve situations and in doing so, outcomes aren't what was expected. Sometimes they screw up but they were doing their best in a bad situation, where there was often, given the set of circumstances, not much of a chance for success no matter how they handled it. In those situations, because I know how difficult it can be to make those decisions under pressure, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am more understanding.

But for everytime someone says "I'm not saying all cops are bad, just most are worthless scum" I've said "I'm not saying all cops are good, just most of them" And I've never shied away from calling a duck a duck when some cop steps on his whanker or screws the pooch.

So on those occassions, when they say wait a minute, I'm only human"... it's probably because they are       

Again, if a teacher is "only human" she doesn't pump bullets into her students... Firemen do not shoot up people during the course of mistakes.

Neither of them has the power to take away your individual liberty.

If you want the power that goes with it, you should be held MUCH more responsible for your usage of it.

"You pay the cost to be the boss."


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 23, 2013, 07:43:46 AM
Again, if a teacher is "only human" she doesn't pump bullets into her students... Firemen do not shoot up people during the course of mistakes.

Neither of them has the power to take away your individual liberty.

If you want the power that goes with it, you should be held MUCH more responsible for your usage of it.

"You pay the cost to be the boss."

People die when firemen screw up
People die when doctors screw up
people die when nurses screw up
people are mentally fried when preachers screw up
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)


Having pointed that out, I agree with your statement that with the power we have comes a huge responsibility.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 23, 2013, 11:14:04 AM
People die when firemen screw up
People die when doctors screw up
people die when nurses screw up
people are mentally fried when preachers screw up
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)


Having pointed that out, I agree with your statement that with the power we have comes a huge responsibility.

Oh please... You are completely ridiculous.

Firemen don't CAUSE issues when they screw up... They don't START fires.
Nurses and Doctors are attempting to SAVE lives even when they screw up.
You probably meant defense attorneys in there, but you fucked that up... And they are TRYING to keep people out of prisons.

They are not busy TAKING AWAY LIBERTY or pointing weapons at people to PURPOSEFULLY cause harm so your analogies are COMPLETELY ludicrous and you fucking know it. Those people are ALL TRYING to help people without pointing guns or using FORCE on them. (unlike police)

You want the POWER, you just don't want the responsibility that goes along with it.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 24, 2013, 10:08:10 AM
Oh please... You are completely ridiculous.

Firemen don't CAUSE issues when they screw up... They don't START fires.
Nurses and Doctors are attempting to SAVE lives even when they screw up.
You probably meant defense attorneys in there, but you fucked that up... And they are TRYING to keep people out of prisons.

They are not busy TAKING AWAY LIBERTY or pointing weapons at people to PURPOSEFULLY cause harm so your analogies are COMPLETELY ludicrous and you fucking know it. Those people are ALL TRYING to help people without pointing guns or using FORCE on them. (unlike police)

You want the POWER, you just don't want the responsibility that goes along with it.



I posit that officers are generally "trying to help" when they screw up too. My analogies are spot on, that you don't agree with them doesn't change that. Lazy doctors who don't follow procedures during operations, sew up instruments inside people are trying to help the person but end up hurting or killing them. Nurses often take short cuts that end peoples lives, not counting the psycho's in nurses uniforms that kill people on purpose to put them out of their misery. Firemen doing piss poor inspections on buildings can result in dozens of people dying in fires. The point is, I can find an example in ANY profession of someone doing something bad and then state "See THIS is why I hate _____" as 3333 did...


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 24, 2013, 10:17:20 AM
I posit that officers are generally "trying to help" when they screw up too. My analogies are spot on, that you don't agree with them doesn't change that. Lazy doctors who don't follow procedures during operations, sew up instruments inside people are trying to help the person but end up hurting or killing them. Nurses often take short cuts that end peoples lives, not counting the psycho's in nurses uniforms that kill people on purpose to put them out of their misery. Firemen doing piss poor inspections on buildings can result in dozens of people dying in fires. The point is, I can find an example in ANY profession of someone doing something bad and then state "See THIS is why I hate _____" as 3333 did...


There's a difference between "Negligence" and PURPOSEFUL INTENT.

I see you don't understand the difference.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 24, 2013, 04:54:28 PM
I posit that officers are generally "trying to help" when they screw up too. My analogies are spot on, that you don't agree with them doesn't change that. Lazy doctors who don't follow procedures during operations, sew up instruments inside people are trying to help the person but end up hurting or killing them. Nurses often take short cuts that end peoples lives, not counting the psycho's in nurses uniforms that kill people on purpose to put them out of their misery. Firemen doing piss poor inspections on buildings can result in dozens of people dying in fires. The point is, I can find an example in ANY profession of someone doing something bad and then state "See THIS is why I hate _____" as 3333 did...




Yes, and that's called deflection.

It's your typical 4 year old attempt to say look, 'they're bad too'.  ::)

The issue at hand is cowardice and it's more than comical when I brought this issue up in the police state thread, you claimed it hard to believe as officers are thoroughly vetted, lol.

Yet, somehow, magically, 7 cowards all just happened to come together at an exact moment in time.  ::)

Now, before you jump to your other 4 year old argument of going to the extreme - not all cops are cowards and I wouldn't say there is an epidemic or whatever stupid extreme you want to bring up.

But, cowardice is clearly more than just a minute issue.  It's clearly something that needs to be addressed, it's clearly problematic within the field, and something clearly needs to be done about it.

If wanna wear a badge, you damn well better be able to refrain from unloading on a car out of fear before you check on who the occupants are.  You don't (or rather 'should not') be able to shoot first and ask questions later.  You should not cower in a subway car while an innocent civilian fights a knife weilding serial killer (and if you watch the video, the State is trying to make the argument that the cops action was ok). 

All of that is repugnant.  Pointing to other professions or claiming 'yea, it's wrong BUT....', is nonsensical justification that accomplishes nothing to resolve the issue within your profession.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 24, 2013, 05:04:29 PM
How can it possibly be explained, 007, that the cops came to be physically positioned in such a way?

I don't think you've had the opportunity to speak much on that.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 25, 2013, 02:58:50 AM



Yes, and that's called deflection.

It's your typical 4 year old attempt to say look, 'they're bad too'.  ::)

The issue at hand is cowardice and it's more than comical when I brought this issue up in the police state thread, you claimed it hard to believe as officers are thoroughly vetted, lol.

Yet, somehow, magically, 7 cowards all just happened to come together at an exact moment in time.  ::)

Now, before you jump to your other 4 year old argument of going to the extreme - not all cops are cowards and I wouldn't say there is an epidemic or whatever stupid extreme you want to bring up.

But, cowardice is clearly more than just a minute issue.  It's clearly something that needs to be addressed, it's clearly problematic within the field, and something clearly needs to be done about it.

If wanna wear a badge, you damn well better be able to refrain from unloading on a car out of fear before you check on who the occupants are.  You don't (or rather 'should not') be able to shoot first and ask questions later.  You should not cower in a subway car while an innocent civilian fights a knife weilding serial killer (and if you watch the video, the State is trying to make the argument that the cops action was ok).  

All of that is repugnant.  Pointing to other professions or claiming 'yea, it's wrong BUT....', is nonsensical justification that accomplishes nothing to resolve the issue within your profession.

Tu.. 333 pointed to an incident and said "See that's why I hate cops" (paraphrasing)
My point is, I can point to almost ANY well respected profession and post an article or video about a person in that profession doing something wrong and say "See, that's why I hate _____" It's an irrational position in both cases.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 25, 2013, 03:02:09 AM
How can it possibly be explained, 007, that the cops came to be physically positioned in such a way?

I don't think you've had the opportunity to speak much on that.

Jack, I don't really have any information on that particular event on how they came to be physically positioned that way. In fact, I don't have any factual information on what their positions were other than guarding the address. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 25, 2013, 04:29:54 AM



Yes, and that's called deflection.

It's your typical 4 year old attempt to say look, 'they're bad too'.  ::)

The issue at hand is cowardice and it's more than comical when I brought this issue up in the police state thread, you claimed it hard to believe as officers are thoroughly vetted, lol.

Yet, somehow, magically, 7 cowards all just happened to come together at an exact moment in time.  ::)

Now, before you jump to your other 4 year old argument of going to the extreme - not all cops are cowards and I wouldn't say there is an epidemic or whatever stupid extreme you want to bring up.

But, cowardice is clearly more than just a minute issue.  It's clearly something that needs to be addressed, it's clearly problematic within the field, and something clearly needs to be done about it.

If wanna wear a badge, you damn well better be able to refrain from unloading on a car out of fear before you check on who the occupants are.  You don't (or rather 'should not') be able to shoot first and ask questions later.  You should not cower in a subway car while an innocent civilian fights a knife weilding serial killer (and if you watch the video, the State is trying to make the argument that the cops action was ok). 

All of that is repugnant.  Pointing to other professions or claiming 'yea, it's wrong BUT....', is nonsensical justification that accomplishes nothing to resolve the issue within your profession.

This!!


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 25, 2013, 07:46:07 AM
Tu.. 333 pointed to an incident and said "See that's why I hate cops" (paraphrasing)
My point is, I can point to almost ANY well respected profession and post an article or video about a person in that profession doing something wrong and say "See, that's why I hate _____" It's an irrational position in both cases.

On Average do you believe Cops harm more people or Doctors / Nurses / Firemen?

Honestly... No bullshit.

Who do you think harms people the most? If you say it's equal or that cops do not harm people more, then I we can stop the discussion because one of these groups carries a weapon specifically designed to cause harm.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 25, 2013, 12:40:50 PM
On Average do you believe Cops harm more people or Doctors / Nurses / Firemen?

Honestly... No bullshit.

Who do you think harms people the most? If you say it's equal or that cops do not harm people more, then I we can stop the discussion because one of these groups carries a weapon specifically designed to cause harm.


Obviously the nature of the job is a bit different so it is inherent that cops would. They typically don't have the time luxury others do, (firefighters excepted). Again, the point I was making and believe I made, is that you can't post up .001% of the police contacts that go bad out of the good and claim with any logic, "This is why I hate cops".. Like I said, I could do that with any profession


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 25, 2013, 01:47:52 PM
Obviously the nature of the job is a bit different so it is inherent that cops would. They typically don't have the time luxury others do, (firefighters excepted). Again, the point I was making and believe I made, is that you can't post up .001% of the police contacts that go bad out of the good and claim with any logic, "This is why I hate cops".. Like I said, I could do that with any profession

What does "time" have to do with anything? Whatever statements you made have absolutely nothing to do with the points I was making about how inherently cops want all of the respect, but when it goes sideways, none of the blame.

This conversation is obviously, as usual when we oppose views, going nowhere because we on the outside, see things like normal people... You see things like your badge buddies would like them to be seen.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 26, 2013, 03:59:48 AM
What does "time" have to do with anything? Whatever statements you made have absolutely nothing to do with the points I was making about how inherently cops want all of the respect, but when it goes sideways, none of the blame.

This conversation is obviously, as usual when we oppose views, going nowhere because we on the outside, see things like normal people... You see things like your badge buddies would like them to be seen.


while your conclusion that because you are on the outside, see things like normal people and because I see things from both sides, don't.. is obviously nonsensical, but that wouldn't be the first time that has happened. But you are right, our conversation will go nowhere. In my opinion, you can't have a conversation involving opposing views  without being agitated and insulting. That's not my style and it gets pretty old pretty quick.     


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 26, 2013, 07:10:07 AM
while your conclusion that because you are on the outside, see things like normal people and because I see things from both sides, don't.. is obviously nonsensical, but that wouldn't be the first time that has happened. But you are right, our conversation will go nowhere. In my opinion, you can't have a conversation involving opposing views  without being agitated and insulting. That's not my style and it gets pretty old pretty quick.     

Unfortunately, you can't even make comments that suggest you're even in the ballpark.

You can't explain what time has to do with anything. You haven't directed your counter points at my original point. If someone were to read my comments, then wait 2 days and read yours they would have no idea we were talking about the same thing.

You calling my statement nonsensical is even more ludicrous because my statements are from being on the inside AND the outside and being able to discern fact from fiction, which seems to be something you are having difficulty with.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 26, 2013, 07:55:24 AM
Jack, I don't really have any information on that particular event on how they came to be physically positioned that way. In fact, I don't have any factual information on what their positions were other than guarding the address.  

Their positions were such that did not not allow for identification.

So how can that be explained?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 26, 2013, 10:38:21 AM
Their positions were such that did not not allow for identification.

So how can that be explained?

Jack I don't know. I don't know if given the terrain it was even possible to be positioned so that positive ID could be made before it would be too late. In a perfect setting they would be set up to where there were bright lights, identification of the occupant could be made well in advance. At night, if windows were tinted, that would make it very difficult. I am just making a lot of assumptions here but it might end up being that identification without the occupant leaving the vehicle would not be likely. Another assumption I'm making is it might be possible that the vehicle they shot was for whatever reason, operating in a way that might have added weight to their concern that it was the bad guy. It might be explained that a vehicle matching the description ( I know, it was the wrong make and color but at night, how different would they look?) was ignoring orders to stop. In most cases, when people are ordered to stop by police they stop. However, sometimes it's the bad guy and they don't want to stop. In rare occasions it's people who are completely Innocent, yet panic or get confused. Most times this end with no one getting shot at. In this particular case maybe the officers considered the situation, and with seconds to decide, decided wrongly that the vehicle contained a guy with an automatic weapon with the intent to kill them and others.

I am offering the assumptions because you are asking me, even though I don't have the information. So I'm offering possibilities. But as I said in the past, while I can understand in certain situations making the wrong decision based on the information they had at the time, because their decision was wrong, there should be consequences for their actions. I don't think they were out to kill innocent people. I don't think they take life any less seriously than you or I. I think they had a tough assignment and made the wrong decision under sucky conditions that they may or may not have had the choice to create.             


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 26, 2013, 01:38:31 PM
Jack I don't know. I don't know if given the terrain it was even possible to be positioned so that positive ID could be made before it would be too late. In a perfect setting they would be set up to where there were bright lights, identification of the occupant could be made well in advance. At night, if windows were tinted, that would make it very difficult. I am just making a lot of assumptions here but it might end up being that identification without the occupant leaving the vehicle would not be likely. Another assumption I'm making is it might be possible that the vehicle they shot was for whatever reason, operating in a way that might have added weight to their concern that it was the bad guy. It might be explained that a vehicle matching the description ( I know, it was the wrong make and color but at night, how different would they look?) was ignoring orders to stop. In most cases, when people are ordered to stop by police they stop. However, sometimes it's the bad guy and they don't want to stop. In rare occasions it's people who are completely Innocent, yet panic or get confused. Most times this end with no one getting shot at. In this particular case maybe the officers considered the situation, and with seconds to decide, decided wrongly that the vehicle contained a guy with an automatic weapon with the intent to kill them and others.

I am offering the assumptions because you are asking me, even though I don't have the information. So I'm offering possibilities. But as I said in the past, while I can understand in certain situations making the wrong decision based on the information they had at the time, because their decision was wrong, there should be consequences for their actions.  I don't think they were out to kill innocent people. I don't think they take life any less seriously than you or I. I think they had a tough assignment and made the wrong decision under sucky conditions that they may or may not have had the choice to create.             

You wouldn't say they did that, that morning?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 26, 2013, 01:45:15 PM
You wouldn't say they did that, that morning?

He would not... Trust me on this.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 26, 2013, 01:46:11 PM
By the way, 007, you don't disagree that the police entered the assignment knowing that it was a threat from a heavily-armed, extremely dangerous person they were protecting against, right?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 26, 2013, 01:53:32 PM
I don't know if given the terrain it was even possible to be positioned so that positive ID could be made before it would be too late.

Please go into this statement a bit more, 007, especially the part in bold.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 26, 2013, 03:58:15 PM
Jack I don't know. I don't know if given the terrain it was even possible to be positioned so that positive ID could be made before it would be too late. In a perfect setting they would be set up to where there were bright lights, identification of the occupant could be made well in advance. At night, if windows were tinted, that would make it very difficult. I am just making a lot of assumptions here but it might end up being that identification without the occupant leaving the vehicle would not be likely. Another assumption I'm making is it might be possible that the vehicle they shot was for whatever reason, operating in a way that might have added weight to their concern that it was the bad guy. It might be explained that a vehicle matching the description ( I know, it was the wrong make and color but at night, how different would they look?) was ignoring orders to stop. In most cases, when people are ordered to stop by police they stop. However, sometimes it's the bad guy and they don't want to stop. In rare occasions it's people who are completely Innocent, yet panic or get confused. Most times this end with no one getting shot at. In this particular case maybe the officers considered the situation, and with seconds to decide, decided wrongly that the vehicle contained a guy with an automatic weapon with the intent to kill them and others.

I am offering the assumptions because you are asking me, even though I don't have the information. So I'm offering possibilities. But as I said in the past, while I can understand in certain situations making the wrong decision based on the information they had at the time, because their decision was wrong, there should be consequences for their actions. I don't think they were out to kill innocent people. I don't think they take life any less seriously than you or I. I think they had a tough assignment and made the wrong decision under sucky conditions that they may or may not have had the choice to create.             



And what should those consequences be?  And what factors should weigh in?  And would those same factors be applied to citizens?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 27, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Please go into this statement a bit more, 007, especially the part in bold.

Jack, an example of too late would be like this;

A cop stops a vehicle with four 20 something's on a dark street. As the cop starts to approach the drivers door opens and a male gets out dressed in mostly red with a black trench coat and starts walking towards the cop quickly. His right hand is behind his back. The officer tells the driver to stop but the driver keeps walking quickly towards the officer. Officer draws his weapon, backing up, yelling for the male to stop, put his hands up, etc etc. Passenger door opens and a couple people get out, one of them saying "Cap that pig!" Cops at the back of his car now, male is quickly approaching. Lot of movement from the car as the passengers are starting to come back towards the cop on the passenger side. Now, if you wait until you actually see a gun, you're dead. But what if he only has a cell phone and is just crazy or high? or nothing in his hand? What if he brings that hand around quickly? Will you wait until you actually identify a weapon before shooting?

Obviously the above scenario is an extreme, but the point is, there is limited time to make a decision before you may be shot. If the officer shoots the guy and he doesn't have a weapon, there would be a small group of people who would say the cop murdered the man for no reason. I would argue what he did at that moment given all the circumstance, was reasonable.  

In the case of the officers at the house, again, I don't know all the facts, I'm playing what if for the sake of the conversation.. If the vehicle wasn't responding in a manner that would be conducive to innocent people for whatever reason, panic or confusion and the officers believed it was the vehicle that contained the shooter, action beats reaction every time and they may have been concerned if they didn't act then, at any moment the bad guy could open up on them. By then it might be too late.  In my what if, I'm making assumptions. Maybe the truck didn't do anything out of the ordinary and they clearly over reacted. Even in my what if, I don't make a case for justifying the shots, at best I am introducing possible contributing factors as to how it might happen.        


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 27, 2013, 07:39:32 AM
Jack, an example of too late would be like this;

A cop stops a vehicle with four 20 something's on a dark street. As the cop starts to approach the drivers door opens and a male gets out dressed in mostly red with a black trench coat and starts walking towards the cop quickly. His right hand is behind his back. The officer tells the driver to stop but the driver keeps walking quickly towards the officer. Officer draws his weapon, backing up, yelling for the male to stop, put his hands up, etc etc. Passenger door opens and a couple people get out, one of them saying "Cap that pig!" Cops at the back of his car now, male is quickly approaching. Lot of movement from the car as the passengers are starting to come back towards the cop on the passenger side. Now, if you wait until you actually see a gun, you're dead. But what if he only has a cell phone and is just crazy or high? or nothing in his hand? What if he brings that hand around quickly? Will you wait until you actually identify a weapon before shooting?

Obviously the above scenario is an extreme, but the point is, there is limited time to make a decision before you may be shot. If the officer shoots the guy and he doesn't have a weapon, there would be a small group of people who would say the cop murdered the man for no reason. I would argue what he did at that moment given all the circumstance, was reasonable. 

In the case of the officers at the house, again, I don't know all the facts, I'm playing what if for the sake of the conversation.. If the vehicle wasn't responding in a manner that would be conducive to innocent people for whatever reason, panic or confusion and the officers believed it was the vehicle that contained the shooter, action beats reaction every time and they may have been concerned if they didn't act then, at any moment the bad guy could open up on them. By then it might be too late.  In my what if, I'm making assumptions. Maybe the truck didn't do anything out of the ordinary and they clearly over reacted. Even in my what if, I don't make a case for justifying the shots, at best I am introducing possible contributing factors as to how it might happen.       

In that scenerio would you not draw your weapon and let the person know you were going to shoot them in some way?

Also, there's a huge difference between that and what happened with this vehicle... There was no imminent threat to anyone's lives in that scenario... They simply shot first and asked questions later.

Of course, your scenario is an extreme, but this was not an extreme scenario where this happened.

Do you disagree?

You will most likely say that these "heightened circumstances" were the issue, but really, you're just saying it's ok to shoot people without validating who they are.

That is defeating our entire system of law by eliminating the courts.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 27, 2013, 11:41:57 AM
In that scenerio would you not draw your weapon and let the person know you were going to shoot them in some way?

Also, there's a huge difference between that and what happened with this vehicle... There was no imminent threat to anyone's lives in that scenario... They simply shot first and asked questions later.

Of course, your scenario is an extreme, but this was not an extreme scenario where this happened.

Do you disagree?

You will most likely say that these "heightened circumstances" were the issue, but really, you're just saying it's ok to shoot people without validating who they are.

That is defeating our entire system of law by eliminating the courts.  


In the scenario, the officer did draw his weapon.

Again, I don't have the details of what happened in front of the house. I can't speak to how "huge" a difference there was though there will be differences.

It appears you are answering for me in the rest of the post so there is no need for me to give my own answer.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 27, 2013, 11:55:58 AM


And what should those consequences be?  And what factors should weigh in?  And would those same factors be applied to citizens?

Skip, it would all depend on the totality of the circumstances.

Usually, a "reasonableness" standard is used. Would a reasonable person, in those same set of circumstances, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight react the same way. Below is an article that goes into more detail.

The True Legal Standard
In 1989, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) handed down one of the landmark decisions regarding an officer’s use of force. The case was Graham v. Connor (490 U.S. 386). This decision created a national standard that is still in place today. In its decision, the SCOTUS made it clear that an officer’s use of force on a free citizen is to be evaluated as a seizure of the person under the Fourth Amendment. Indeed, the SCOTUS said in its holding:

All claims that law enforcement officials have used excessive force - deadly or not - in the course of an arrest, investigatory stop, or other "seizure" of a free citizen are properly analyzed under the Fourth Amendment's "objective reasonableness" standard, rather than under a substantive due process standard.

What is important to the reader for this article is the phrase “objective reasonableness.” How did the SCOTUS come to this term? Perhaps a quick review of the Fourth Amendment can shed some light. The Fourth Amendment protects the people against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government and its agents. Therefore it would logically follow that officers must act reasonably when seizing people.

Graham set forth several evaluation guidelines and factors to be taken into consideration when evaluating an officer’s use of force. These evaluation guidelines include one overarching direction to anybody who chooses to opine about an officer’s force response:

The calculus of reasonableness must embody allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments - in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving - about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation.

Once the person that chooses to render his/her opinion understands this overarching direction, they also need to be aware of these guidelines while making their determination of the reasonableness of the officer’s force response:

1.) Judged through the perspective of a reasonable officer
     a. Officer with same or similar training and experience
     b. Facing similar circumstances
     c. Act the same way or use similar judgment
2.) Based on the totality of the facts known to the officer at the time the force was applied
     a. No matter how compelling the evidence is to be found later
     b. No hindsight evaluation
3.) Based on the facts known to the officer without regard to the underlying intent or motivation
4.) Based on the knowledge the officer acted properly under established law at the time



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 27, 2013, 12:46:04 PM
In the scenario, the officer did draw his weapon.

Again, I don't have the details of what happened in front of the house. I can't speak to how "huge" a difference there was though there will be differences.

It appears you are answering for me in the rest of the post so there is no need for me to give my own answer.

You have no answer anyway... You will do what you always do and make excuses.

You have done so in every post.

To you, there must always be an extenuating circumstance, but the onus is almost never on the cop to you... You make excuses for everything.

You are a piece of work.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 27, 2013, 01:05:00 PM
You have no answer anyway... You will do what you always do and make excuses.

You have done so in every post.

To you, there must always be an extenuating circumstance, but the onus is almost never on the cop to you... You make excuses for everything.

You are a piece of work.

Tu, why so angry? Seriously? You know I have said in the past a cop screwed up on several posts..


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 27, 2013, 01:49:16 PM
Tu, why so angry? Seriously? You know I have said in the past a cop screwed up on several posts..

Did the cops screw up here?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: 24KT on March 27, 2013, 02:30:52 PM
Did the cops screw up here?

***bump for an answer***


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 27, 2013, 02:44:21 PM
Tu, why so angry? Seriously? You know I have said in the past a cop screwed up on several posts..

You'll have to forgive me for not noticing when you have done so.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 27, 2013, 03:35:29 PM
Skip, it would all depend on the totality of the circumstances.

Usually, a "reasonableness" standard is used. Would a reasonable person, in those same set of circumstances, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight react the same way. Below is an article that goes into more detail.








Yeah...this is pretty much saying - to me - the cops are gonna walk.



Here's some reasonable predictions from a reasonable person:

1.  ALL of the cops will swear the driving was abnormal, odd, or whatever.  Of course it wasn't normal...they were delivering.  ::)  And if it turns out they saw a bunch of armed men, that probably would have furthered the abnormal, odd, or whatever driving.

2.  ALL of the cops will claim they feared for their lives.

3.  ALL of the cops will claim that they 'reasonably' thought Dorner was in the car.

4.  ALL 3rd party cops examining the case will side with the lapd.

5.  The DA will cover and say something to the effect that their actions do not rise to criminal intent (though you same cops will gladly lock up someone else for life for the EXACT same thing).

6.  The people of LA will sit back, apathetic and accepting.




Maybe not, but I think that scenario is probably the most honest guestimate of what will play out.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 27, 2013, 03:55:05 PM



Yeah...this is pretty much saying - to me - the cops are gonna walk.



Here's some reasonable predictions from a reasonable person:

1.  ALL of the cops will swear the driving was abnormal, odd, or whatever.  Of course it wasn't normal...they were delivering.  ::)  And if it turns out they saw a bunch of armed men, that probably would have furthered the abnormal, odd, or whatever driving.

2.  ALL of the cops will claim they feared for their lives.

3.  ALL of the cops will claim that they 'reasonably' thought Dorner was in the car.

4.  ALL 3rd party cops examining the case will side with the lapd.

5.  The DA will cover and say something to the effect that their actions do not rise to criminal intent (though you same cops will gladly lock up someone else for life for the EXACT same thing).

6.  The people of LA will sit back, apathetic and accepting.




Maybe not, but I think that scenario is probably the most honest guestimate of what will play out.

We usually disagree but in this thread you are dead on.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 04:32:36 AM
Did the cops screw up here?

Yes, the fact was they shot multiple times at a vehicle that had nothing to do with the psycho killer and injured and almost killed two innocent people. I'd call that a screw up


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 28, 2013, 09:44:58 AM
Yes, the fact was they shot multiple times at a vehicle that had nothing to do with the psycho killer and injured and almost killed two innocent people. I'd call that a screw up

So what should the punishment be for this screw up?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 02:37:29 PM
So what should the punishment be for this screw up?


what do you think it should be?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 28, 2013, 02:40:50 PM
what do you think it should be?

I think they should lose their jobs for being trigger happy.

I also believe they should be charged with a crime... Probably Assault with a firearm.

http://www.shouselaw.com/assault-firearm.html

Now will you answer the question? I asked you first after all.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 02:57:51 PM
I think they should lose their jobs for being trigger happy.

I also believe they should be charged with a crime... Probably Assault with a firearm.

http://www.shouselaw.com/assault-firearm.html

Now will you answer the question? I asked you first after all.

Fair enough.... I think I would want to review all the evidence and facts in the investigation before deciding to what extent the  consequences would be. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 28, 2013, 04:14:37 PM
Fair enough.... I think I would want to review all the evidence and facts in the investigation before deciding to what extent the  consequences would be. 

So you have no answer.

Right.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on March 28, 2013, 04:29:57 PM
Fair enough.... I think I would want to review all the evidence and facts in the investigation before deciding to what extent the  consequences would be. 


hey this is getbig,just jump to conclusions like everyone else  :D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 28, 2013, 04:31:20 PM

hey this is getbig,just jump to conclusions like everyone else  :D

The investigation has been done already... 7 dudes shot up a truck.

If that was you and 6 of your buds, no excuse would be enough, you'd be charged with a crime.

PERIOD

You're an idiot if you think otherwise.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on March 28, 2013, 04:35:20 PM
The investigation has been done already... 7 dudes shot up a truck.

If that was you and 6 of your buds, no excuse would be enough, you'd be charged with a crime.

PERIOD

You're an idiot if you think otherwise.




so what did the investigation say ?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 28, 2013, 04:35:45 PM

so what did the investigation say ?

They have not released any information about it.

Does that seem ok to you?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: blacken700 on March 28, 2013, 04:39:16 PM
They have not released any information about it.

Does that seem ok to you?

so your telling me you don't know all the facts


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 28, 2013, 04:41:26 PM
so your telling me you don't know all the facts

I know 2 ladies were driving a truck delivering papers minding their own business and they got shot up with 100+ bullets by 7 cops.

They were MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS... That's a FACT.

What facts do I "need to know"?

If it were YOU and 6 of your friends, you'd be in jail awaiting trial, but they are cops so nothing has happened.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 28, 2013, 05:18:53 PM
Fair enough.... I think I would want to review all the evidence and facts in the investigation before deciding to what extent the  consequences would be. 






::)

You got no problem speculating about how justified the cops who off'd Dorner probably were.

But now you need to wait for the review.

Like I've said repeatedly...you're a walking talking blue wall and don't even fucking realize it.

lol



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 28, 2013, 05:22:10 PM
I know 2 ladies were driving a truck delivering papers minding their own business and they got shot up with 100+ bullets by 7 cops.

They were MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS... That's a FACT.

What facts do I "need to know"?

If it were YOU and 6 of your friends, you'd be in jail awaiting trial, but they are cops so nothing has happened.




I think we've pretty much seen from his examples how insidious they're going to make it.

They weren't delivering...noooo...the y driving 'suspiciously' and the lighting will contribute to poor visibility, and one of the cops said 'real loud' for them to stop...but they 'ignored' that 'request' and the truck could be easily 'mistaken' for the wrong one.

oh brother...


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 28, 2013, 05:22:57 PM
We usually disagree but in this thread you are dead on.




True.  And usually when we disagree, you're being unreasonable.

I mean...  :D


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 06:53:56 PM
They have not released any information about it.

Does that seem ok to you?

It's been my experience that most investigations of this nature have a suspense date of 180 days. I wonder if they have actually concluded their investigation, or, you are making assumptions they have concluded it.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 06:54:48 PM
So you have no answer.

Right.

 Please don't be a moron. My answer was very reasonable.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 06:57:47 PM





::)

You got no problem speculating about how justified the cops who off'd Dorner probably were.

But now you need to wait for the review.

Like I've said repeatedly...you're a walking talking blue wall and don't even fucking realize it.

lol



I understand that is your opinion skip, however, the speculation was done pretty much at request. I typically try to avoid speculation. I on occasion for the sake of discussion will offer my opinion based on my experiences but ultimately when it comes down to it on a SPECIFIC case, I, like most people I would hope, would like to hear all the evidence before coming to a conclusion. In this case, how severe the consequences should be.   


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 28, 2013, 06:58:46 PM



I think we've pretty much seen from his examples how insidious they're going to make it.

They weren't delivering...noooo...the y driving 'suspiciously' and the lighting will contribute to poor visibility, and one of the cops said 'real loud' for them to stop...but they 'ignored' that 'request' and the truck could be easily 'mistaken' for the wrong one.

oh brother...

you haven't jumped to any conclusions obviously  ::)


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 29, 2013, 07:58:37 AM
Please don't be a moron. My answer was very reasonable.

Your answer was shit.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 29, 2013, 10:36:30 AM
Your answer was shit.

Hope this helps.

I'm not going to change the way I come to conclusions, which is by actually getting the full information when there is no exigency, just because you don't like it Tu. That's not how I operate. If that doesn't meet your standards, I'll get over it in time. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 29, 2013, 10:56:42 AM
I'm not going to change the way I come to conclusions, which is by actually getting the full information when there is no exigency, just because you don't like it Tu. That's not how I operate. If that doesn't meet your standards, I'll get over it in time. 
Your conclusions are completely biased. Your full information will never come and you will never change your opinion on it.

You'll get over it because you have no conscience.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 29, 2013, 11:33:50 AM
Your conclusions are completely biased. Your full information will never come and you will never change your opinion on it.

You'll get over it because you have no conscience.



You hate applesauce,  your favorite TV show is Dancing with The Stars, You have an irrational fear of ducks and your favorite song is Material Girl..... 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 29, 2013, 12:13:57 PM
I know 2 ladies were driving a truck delivering papers minding their own business and they got shot up with 100+ bullets by 7 cops.

They were MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS... That's a FACT.

What facts do I "need to know"?

If it were YOU and 6 of your friends, you'd be in jail awaiting trial, but they are cops so nothing has happened.

This!!


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 29, 2013, 12:26:27 PM
This!!

Can you expound on "nothing has happened"? I believe it is being investigated and there will be hearings on it. Ultimately there will be decisions made on the consequences once it is reviewed. 


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 29, 2013, 02:26:31 PM
Can you expound on "nothing has happened"? I believe it is being investigated and there will be hearings on it. Ultimately there will be decisions made on the consequences once it is reviewed. 

Is that what you tell people before sending them to prison?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 29, 2013, 03:16:26 PM
You hate applesauce,  your favorite TV show is Dancing with The Stars, You have an irrational fear of ducks and your favorite song is Material Girl..... 

Nice to see you have zero response besides some nonsense.

PS... Material girl gets every bitches panties moist.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 30, 2013, 07:45:58 AM
Is that what you tell people before sending them to prison?

I don't send people to prison


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Agnostic007 on March 30, 2013, 07:49:29 AM
Nice to see you have zero response besides some nonsense.

PS... Material girl gets every bitches panties moist.

I figured if you could state all the things I would say, I could play along and start stating what you like. When and if you decide you want to discuss the issues like adults, I'll be more than willing to exchange opinions and views with you tu, but lately you've just been like a pissed off 12 yr old arguing over every little thing and hurling insults rather than actually having a conversation.  Not my idea of a discussion


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on March 30, 2013, 08:36:12 AM
you haven't jumped to any conclusions obviously  ::)




Sorry chump, but unlike you, I haven't tried to portray myself as unopiniated in this matter.  You try to sell that crap whilst being completely oblivious to your own fundamental bias.


As far as I'm concerned the deck is unfavorably stacked against 2 innocent people.

I doubt you can even see the bias involved in having the same police department that tried to murder 2 innocent people investigating themselves.  ::)


If you want fairness or equity in this matter, then it should be handled as such.


-Arrest these shitbags and have them make bail, just as any other person would be in the same circumstances.
-Call in the Feds or the State Police and have them conduct the investigation.  Not review, not give a concurrent opinion...they conduct the entire investigation.
-File the appropriate charges in a timely fashion just as you would against any other citizen.
-Do not allow stupidity in courtroom by allowing them to make every little detail sound like some nefarious, insidious action.  'They weren't driving normal.'  ...no fucking shit - they were delivering.  ::)




Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 30, 2013, 08:40:11 AM
I figured if you could state all the things I would say, I could play along and start stating what you like. When and if you decide you want to discuss the issues like adults, I'll be more than willing to exchange opinions and views with you tu, but lately you've just been like a pissed off 12 yr old arguing over every little thing and hurling insults rather than actually having a conversation.  Not my idea of a discussion

What insults have I "hurled" at you?

Did my statement of saying you have no conscience actually have some impact, because that's the only insult I stated.

If you are saying I said something else about you that was insulting, PLEASE point that out because I have not done anything except ask you questions and you've yet to respond with anything more than "We need all of the evidence."

Which as everyone can see, is a completely "cop out" (Pun intended) so you don't actually have to admit that your badge carrying cohorts are at fault and extremely culpable in a crime.

It's ok... Everyone can see this, you don't have to say much of anything, as your responses are all telling and extremely sad.



Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 30, 2013, 02:31:01 PM
I don't send people to prison

You are a cop no?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 30, 2013, 02:44:17 PM
You are a cop no?

His deflection will be that it's the judges who do so. Along with advice from the prosecutors.

Which is all true, but his testimony goes a long way at times to convince them to do so.

What he can not deny is that he willfully takes away people's individual liberties.

If he does then he's a liar because that's what an arrest is.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: whork on March 30, 2013, 03:31:43 PM
His deflection will be that it's the judges who do so. Along with advice from the prosecutors.

Which is all true, but his testimony goes a long way at times to convince them to do so.

What he can not deny is that he willfully takes away people's individual liberties.

If he does then he's a liar because that's what an arrest is.

You think he would wait for an investigation if he had caught you and me unloading our guns on a van with 2 innocent women?


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: tu_holmes on March 31, 2013, 07:43:56 AM
You think he would wait for an investigation if he had caught you and me unloading our guns on a van with 2 innocent women?

Of course not. We'd be locked up immediately.

Because we aren't cops.


Title: Re: Cowardly Cops
Post by: Skip8282 on February 16, 2014, 04:32:40 PM
Wow!  They violated policy.

Nice fucking white wash.

It's unbelievable that they are not in PRISON where they all fucking belong.

No, actually it is believable...it's just DISGUSTING.

Of course, cops trying to kill poor and/or minorities in California seems to be acceptable.


+++++++++++++++++++++++

Police Commission: Cops violated policy in Dorner mistaken-ID shooting


The Los Angeles Police Commission on Tuesday unanimously accepted Chief Charlie Beck's finding that eight officers who opened fire on two women in a pickup truck during a search for Christopher Dorner violated the department’s policy on using deadly force.


The Police Commission, which oversees the LAPD, has the final word on police shootings. Beck will now determine how to discipline the officers, if at all.

In a statement, Police Commission President Steve Soboroff called the shooting "tragic." He declined to discuss the commission's closed-door deliberations, citing state law.

"As in all Use of Force incidents, the Department has completed a thorough review and will adopt the lessons learned, both good and bad," he said.

The finding comes a year after the massive manhunt for Dorner, the ex-LAPD officer who sought vengeance against law enforcement officials he blamed for his firing. Dorner ultimately killed four people and wounded three others before he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound during a shootout with police near Big Bear.

The Torrance shooting occurred in the predawn hours of Feb. 7, 2013, as the search for Dorner was underway. Officers from the LAPD's Hollywood Division were dispatched to a quiet residential neighborhood with orders to guard the home of an LAPD captain who had been involved in the decision to fire Dorner for dishonesty and other misconduct.

At some point, the officers received a report that a pickup truck resembling Dorner’s was seen in the area of the house they were guarding. Shortly after 5 a.m., a truck turned onto the street.

The truck -- which had a license plate beginning in "8D," like Dorner's -- drove slowly down the street, then accelerated and crossed the center line, Soboroff said in his statement.

"Ultimately, the officers believed by the erratic manner the vehicle was driving that it was occupied by Dorner," Soboroff said. "These observations led the officers to discharge their weapons at the vehicle to stop the threat."

As the vehicle approached the house, officers opened fire, unloading a barrage of bullets into the truck. When the shooting stopped, they realized their mistake. The truck was a different make and model -- a Toyota Tacoma, not a Nissan Titan, Soboroff said. The color wasn't gray, as Dorner’s was, but blue. And it wasn't Dorner inside the truck, but a woman and her mother delivering copies of the Los Angeles Times.

Investigators found that the officers fired more than 100 times.

In an interview shortly after the shooting, Beck said Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, were the victims of “a tragic misinterpretation” by officers working under “incredible tension,” he said.

Just hours before, Dorner had shot three police officers, one fatally. And in an online posting authorities attributed to him, he threatened to kill more police and seemed to take responsibility for the slaying of the daughter of a retired LAPD captain and her fiance.

Hernandez was shot twice in the back; her daughter sustained superficial wounds. The women later agreed to a $4.2-million settlement with the city.

A panel of high-ranking police officials that reviewed the shooting urged Beck to clear the officers of wrongdoing, said multiple sources with knowledge of the case, who spoke on the condition that their names not be used because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the case.

Beck, however, ultimately found the officers’ actions could not be justified, the sources said.

Since the shooting, the officers, whom the department has not identified over concerns for their safety, have been assigned to desk jobs to keep them out of the field, police officials said.

The Police Commission also found Tuesday that the two officers involved in an "intense gun battle" with Dorner in Riverside County acted within department policy. That shooting occurred shortly before 1:30 a.m. Feb. 7, as the officers were en route to a protective detail, Soboroff said.

A resident told the officers he thought he had seen Dorner leaving a gas station, Soboroff said. The officers spotted Dorner's truck and were following it when the vehicle pulled to the side of the road.

The driver's door opened and Dorner began firing an assault rifle at the officers, Soboroff said. One of the officers was grazed in the head; the other was "sprayed with shattered glass."

Dorner fled and soon after ambushed two Riverside police officers, seriously injuring one and killing the other.




http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-commission-dorner-20140204,0,3169999.story#ixzz2tXCRnnrD