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Author Topic: Cowardly Cops  (Read 4519 times)
Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #150 on: March 15, 2013, 04:50:34 PM »

+2

Not sure if that guy is being serious...ever.
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« Reply #151 on: March 15, 2013, 05:09:04 PM »


the difference is that when I fuck up I get sued, disbarred, and pay the price.

When a cop fucks up he is usually promoted and sticks the taxpayer w the tab. 

Not to mention that the odds of you fucking up and killing someone are pretty slim

I didn't know that when Teachers, priests, and firemen just "screw up", people are wrongly put in prisons or killed.

I think it's funny that cops want to be held to a higher standard, such as their word when they are in court and what not, but if they fuck up, wait wait wait... I'm only human.

Roll Eyes
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Skip8282
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« Reply #152 on: March 17, 2013, 06:03:53 PM »


the difference is that when I fuck up I get sued, disbarred, and pay the price.

When a cop fucks up he is usually promoted and sticks the taxpayer w the tab. 



True...and I've said this repeatedly, public officials are far too lacking in accountability.  The other public professions that Agnostic listed are in the same boat.  There needs to be far more accountability and the punishment must be commesurate.  All too often those in public service are getting away with a slap on wrist.  That leaves a bad taste in the public's mouth and that non-sense needs to stop immediately.

There's no reason these shitbags haven't been charged yet.  Bullshit on the investigation taking this long.

They're looking for reasons to excuse their actions.

I will very very shocked if criminal charges are made.

Let's hope for one good DA to do the right thing.
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« Reply #153 on: March 21, 2013, 11:30:15 PM »

Not to mention that the odds of you fucking up and killing someone are pretty slim

I didn't know that when Teachers, priests, and firemen just "screw up", people are wrongly put in prisons or killed.

I think it's funny that cops want to be held to a higher standard, such as their word when they are in court and what not, but if they fuck up, wait wait wait... I'm only human.

Roll Eyes
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #154 on: March 22, 2013, 10:44:23 AM »

Not to mention that the odds of you fucking up and killing someone are pretty slim

I didn't know that when Teachers, priests, and firemen just "screw up", people are wrongly put in prisons or killed.

I think it's funny that cops want to be held to a higher standard, such as their word when they are in court and what not, but if they fuck up, wait wait wait... I'm only human.

Roll Eyes

Cops should be held to a higher standard when it comes to honesty, integrity, work ethic, professionalism. Not that a vast majority of the public are not good people but ALL citizens who choose to wear the blue uniform should be those things without exception.

If a cop is shown to be lying, fire him or her, charge them with perjury if that is prosecutable. If a cop is shown to have used excessive force, fire them, charge them with whatever charges are appropriate to the incident. Where I think many of you part ways with me is in a more gray area. Often times, just by the nature of the job, cops are in precarious situations and have to deal with people where the outcome may not be all that pleasant for the citizen. Often times, cops are required to resolve situations and in doing so, outcomes aren't what was expected. Sometimes they screw up but they were doing their best in a bad situation, where there was often, given the set of circumstances, not much of a chance for success no matter how they handled it. In those situations, because I know how difficult it can be to make those decisions under pressure, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am more understanding.

But for everytime someone says "I'm not saying all cops are bad, just most are worthless scum" I've said "I'm not saying all cops are good, just most of them" And I've never shied away from calling a duck a duck when some cop steps on his whanker or screws the pooch.

So on those occassions, when they say wait a minute, I'm only human"... it's probably because they are       
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« Reply #155 on: March 22, 2013, 03:16:34 PM »

Cops should be held to a higher standard when it comes to honesty, integrity, work ethic, professionalism. Not that a vast majority of the public are not good people but ALL citizens who choose to wear the blue uniform should be those things without exception.

If a cop is shown to be lying, fire him or her, charge them with perjury if that is prosecutable. If a cop is shown to have used excessive force, fire them, charge them with whatever charges are appropriate to the incident. Where I think many of you part ways with me is in a more gray area. Often times, just by the nature of the job, cops are in precarious situations and have to deal with people where the outcome may not be all that pleasant for the citizen. Often times, cops are required to resolve situations and in doing so, outcomes aren't what was expected. Sometimes they screw up but they were doing their best in a bad situation, where there was often, given the set of circumstances, not much of a chance for success no matter how they handled it. In those situations, because I know how difficult it can be to make those decisions under pressure, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am more understanding.

But for everytime someone says "I'm not saying all cops are bad, just most are worthless scum" I've said "I'm not saying all cops are good, just most of them" And I've never shied away from calling a duck a duck when some cop steps on his whanker or screws the pooch.

So on those occassions, when they say wait a minute, I'm only human"... it's probably because they are       

Again, if a teacher is "only human" she doesn't pump bullets into her students... Firemen do not shoot up people during the course of mistakes.

Neither of them has the power to take away your individual liberty.

If you want the power that goes with it, you should be held MUCH more responsible for your usage of it.

"You pay the cost to be the boss."
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« Reply #156 on: March 23, 2013, 08:43:46 AM »

Again, if a teacher is "only human" she doesn't pump bullets into her students... Firemen do not shoot up people during the course of mistakes.

Neither of them has the power to take away your individual liberty.

If you want the power that goes with it, you should be held MUCH more responsible for your usage of it.

"You pay the cost to be the boss."

People die when firemen screw up
People die when doctors screw up
people die when nurses screw up
people are mentally fried when preachers screw up
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)


Having pointed that out, I agree with your statement that with the power we have comes a huge responsibility.
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« Reply #157 on: March 23, 2013, 12:14:04 PM »

People die when firemen screw up
People die when doctors screw up
people die when nurses screw up
people are mentally fried when preachers screw up
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)
People die or liberty taken away when prosecutors screw up (death penalty/prison)


Having pointed that out, I agree with your statement that with the power we have comes a huge responsibility.

Oh please... You are completely ridiculous.

Firemen don't CAUSE issues when they screw up... They don't START fires.
Nurses and Doctors are attempting to SAVE lives even when they screw up.
You probably meant defense attorneys in there, but you fucked that up... And they are TRYING to keep people out of prisons.

They are not busy TAKING AWAY LIBERTY or pointing weapons at people to PURPOSEFULLY cause harm so your analogies are COMPLETELY ludicrous and you fucking know it. Those people are ALL TRYING to help people without pointing guns or using FORCE on them. (unlike police)

You want the POWER, you just don't want the responsibility that goes along with it.

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Agnostic007
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« Reply #158 on: March 24, 2013, 11:08:10 AM »

Oh please... You are completely ridiculous.

Firemen don't CAUSE issues when they screw up... They don't START fires.
Nurses and Doctors are attempting to SAVE lives even when they screw up.
You probably meant defense attorneys in there, but you fucked that up... And they are TRYING to keep people out of prisons.

They are not busy TAKING AWAY LIBERTY or pointing weapons at people to PURPOSEFULLY cause harm so your analogies are COMPLETELY ludicrous and you fucking know it. Those people are ALL TRYING to help people without pointing guns or using FORCE on them. (unlike police)

You want the POWER, you just don't want the responsibility that goes along with it.



I posit that officers are generally "trying to help" when they screw up too. My analogies are spot on, that you don't agree with them doesn't change that. Lazy doctors who don't follow procedures during operations, sew up instruments inside people are trying to help the person but end up hurting or killing them. Nurses often take short cuts that end peoples lives, not counting the psycho's in nurses uniforms that kill people on purpose to put them out of their misery. Firemen doing piss poor inspections on buildings can result in dozens of people dying in fires. The point is, I can find an example in ANY profession of someone doing something bad and then state "See THIS is why I hate _____" as 3333 did...
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« Reply #159 on: March 24, 2013, 11:17:20 AM »

I posit that officers are generally "trying to help" when they screw up too. My analogies are spot on, that you don't agree with them doesn't change that. Lazy doctors who don't follow procedures during operations, sew up instruments inside people are trying to help the person but end up hurting or killing them. Nurses often take short cuts that end peoples lives, not counting the psycho's in nurses uniforms that kill people on purpose to put them out of their misery. Firemen doing piss poor inspections on buildings can result in dozens of people dying in fires. The point is, I can find an example in ANY profession of someone doing something bad and then state "See THIS is why I hate _____" as 3333 did...


There's a difference between "Negligence" and PURPOSEFUL INTENT.

I see you don't understand the difference.
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« Reply #160 on: March 24, 2013, 05:54:28 PM »

I posit that officers are generally "trying to help" when they screw up too. My analogies are spot on, that you don't agree with them doesn't change that. Lazy doctors who don't follow procedures during operations, sew up instruments inside people are trying to help the person but end up hurting or killing them. Nurses often take short cuts that end peoples lives, not counting the psycho's in nurses uniforms that kill people on purpose to put them out of their misery. Firemen doing piss poor inspections on buildings can result in dozens of people dying in fires. The point is, I can find an example in ANY profession of someone doing something bad and then state "See THIS is why I hate _____" as 3333 did...




Yes, and that's called deflection.

It's your typical 4 year old attempt to say look, 'they're bad too'.  Roll Eyes

The issue at hand is cowardice and it's more than comical when I brought this issue up in the police state thread, you claimed it hard to believe as officers are thoroughly vetted, lol.

Yet, somehow, magically, 7 cowards all just happened to come together at an exact moment in time.  Roll Eyes

Now, before you jump to your other 4 year old argument of going to the extreme - not all cops are cowards and I wouldn't say there is an epidemic or whatever stupid extreme you want to bring up.

But, cowardice is clearly more than just a minute issue.  It's clearly something that needs to be addressed, it's clearly problematic within the field, and something clearly needs to be done about it.

If wanna wear a badge, you damn well better be able to refrain from unloading on a car out of fear before you check on who the occupants are.  You don't (or rather 'should not') be able to shoot first and ask questions later.  You should not cower in a subway car while an innocent civilian fights a knife weilding serial killer (and if you watch the video, the State is trying to make the argument that the cops action was ok). 

All of that is repugnant.  Pointing to other professions or claiming 'yea, it's wrong BUT....', is nonsensical justification that accomplishes nothing to resolve the issue within your profession.
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #161 on: March 24, 2013, 06:04:29 PM »

How can it possibly be explained, 007, that the cops came to be physically positioned in such a way?

I don't think you've had the opportunity to speak much on that.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #162 on: March 25, 2013, 03:58:50 AM »




Yes, and that's called deflection.

It's your typical 4 year old attempt to say look, 'they're bad too'.  Roll Eyes

The issue at hand is cowardice and it's more than comical when I brought this issue up in the police state thread, you claimed it hard to believe as officers are thoroughly vetted, lol.

Yet, somehow, magically, 7 cowards all just happened to come together at an exact moment in time.  Roll Eyes

Now, before you jump to your other 4 year old argument of going to the extreme - not all cops are cowards and I wouldn't say there is an epidemic or whatever stupid extreme you want to bring up.

But, cowardice is clearly more than just a minute issue.  It's clearly something that needs to be addressed, it's clearly problematic within the field, and something clearly needs to be done about it.

If wanna wear a badge, you damn well better be able to refrain from unloading on a car out of fear before you check on who the occupants are.  You don't (or rather 'should not') be able to shoot first and ask questions later.  You should not cower in a subway car while an innocent civilian fights a knife weilding serial killer (and if you watch the video, the State is trying to make the argument that the cops action was ok).  

All of that is repugnant.  Pointing to other professions or claiming 'yea, it's wrong BUT....', is nonsensical justification that accomplishes nothing to resolve the issue within your profession.

Tu.. 333 pointed to an incident and said "See that's why I hate cops" (paraphrasing)
My point is, I can point to almost ANY well respected profession and post an article or video about a person in that profession doing something wrong and say "See, that's why I hate _____" It's an irrational position in both cases.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #163 on: March 25, 2013, 04:02:09 AM »

How can it possibly be explained, 007, that the cops came to be physically positioned in such a way?

I don't think you've had the opportunity to speak much on that.

Jack, I don't really have any information on that particular event on how they came to be physically positioned that way. In fact, I don't have any factual information on what their positions were other than guarding the address. 
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« Reply #164 on: March 25, 2013, 05:29:54 AM »




Yes, and that's called deflection.

It's your typical 4 year old attempt to say look, 'they're bad too'.  Roll Eyes

The issue at hand is cowardice and it's more than comical when I brought this issue up in the police state thread, you claimed it hard to believe as officers are thoroughly vetted, lol.

Yet, somehow, magically, 7 cowards all just happened to come together at an exact moment in time.  Roll Eyes

Now, before you jump to your other 4 year old argument of going to the extreme - not all cops are cowards and I wouldn't say there is an epidemic or whatever stupid extreme you want to bring up.

But, cowardice is clearly more than just a minute issue.  It's clearly something that needs to be addressed, it's clearly problematic within the field, and something clearly needs to be done about it.

If wanna wear a badge, you damn well better be able to refrain from unloading on a car out of fear before you check on who the occupants are.  You don't (or rather 'should not') be able to shoot first and ask questions later.  You should not cower in a subway car while an innocent civilian fights a knife weilding serial killer (and if you watch the video, the State is trying to make the argument that the cops action was ok). 

All of that is repugnant.  Pointing to other professions or claiming 'yea, it's wrong BUT....', is nonsensical justification that accomplishes nothing to resolve the issue within your profession.

This!!
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« Reply #165 on: March 25, 2013, 08:46:07 AM »

Tu.. 333 pointed to an incident and said "See that's why I hate cops" (paraphrasing)
My point is, I can point to almost ANY well respected profession and post an article or video about a person in that profession doing something wrong and say "See, that's why I hate _____" It's an irrational position in both cases.

On Average do you believe Cops harm more people or Doctors / Nurses / Firemen?

Honestly... No bullshit.

Who do you think harms people the most? If you say it's equal or that cops do not harm people more, then I we can stop the discussion because one of these groups carries a weapon specifically designed to cause harm.
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« Reply #166 on: March 25, 2013, 01:40:50 PM »

On Average do you believe Cops harm more people or Doctors / Nurses / Firemen?

Honestly... No bullshit.

Who do you think harms people the most? If you say it's equal or that cops do not harm people more, then I we can stop the discussion because one of these groups carries a weapon specifically designed to cause harm.


Obviously the nature of the job is a bit different so it is inherent that cops would. They typically don't have the time luxury others do, (firefighters excepted). Again, the point I was making and believe I made, is that you can't post up .001% of the police contacts that go bad out of the good and claim with any logic, "This is why I hate cops".. Like I said, I could do that with any profession
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« Reply #167 on: March 25, 2013, 02:47:52 PM »

Obviously the nature of the job is a bit different so it is inherent that cops would. They typically don't have the time luxury others do, (firefighters excepted). Again, the point I was making and believe I made, is that you can't post up .001% of the police contacts that go bad out of the good and claim with any logic, "This is why I hate cops".. Like I said, I could do that with any profession

What does "time" have to do with anything? Whatever statements you made have absolutely nothing to do with the points I was making about how inherently cops want all of the respect, but when it goes sideways, none of the blame.

This conversation is obviously, as usual when we oppose views, going nowhere because we on the outside, see things like normal people... You see things like your badge buddies would like them to be seen.
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« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2013, 04:59:48 AM »

What does "time" have to do with anything? Whatever statements you made have absolutely nothing to do with the points I was making about how inherently cops want all of the respect, but when it goes sideways, none of the blame.

This conversation is obviously, as usual when we oppose views, going nowhere because we on the outside, see things like normal people... You see things like your badge buddies would like them to be seen.


while your conclusion that because you are on the outside, see things like normal people and because I see things from both sides, don't.. is obviously nonsensical, but that wouldn't be the first time that has happened. But you are right, our conversation will go nowhere. In my opinion, you can't have a conversation involving opposing views  without being agitated and insulting. That's not my style and it gets pretty old pretty quick.     
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« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2013, 08:10:07 AM »

while your conclusion that because you are on the outside, see things like normal people and because I see things from both sides, don't.. is obviously nonsensical, but that wouldn't be the first time that has happened. But you are right, our conversation will go nowhere. In my opinion, you can't have a conversation involving opposing views  without being agitated and insulting. That's not my style and it gets pretty old pretty quick.     

Unfortunately, you can't even make comments that suggest you're even in the ballpark.

You can't explain what time has to do with anything. You haven't directed your counter points at my original point. If someone were to read my comments, then wait 2 days and read yours they would have no idea we were talking about the same thing.

You calling my statement nonsensical is even more ludicrous because my statements are from being on the inside AND the outside and being able to discern fact from fiction, which seems to be something you are having difficulty with.
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #170 on: March 26, 2013, 08:55:24 AM »

Jack, I don't really have any information on that particular event on how they came to be physically positioned that way. In fact, I don't have any factual information on what their positions were other than guarding the address.  

Their positions were such that did not not allow for identification.

So how can that be explained?
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« Reply #171 on: March 26, 2013, 11:38:21 AM »

Their positions were such that did not not allow for identification.

So how can that be explained?

Jack I don't know. I don't know if given the terrain it was even possible to be positioned so that positive ID could be made before it would be too late. In a perfect setting they would be set up to where there were bright lights, identification of the occupant could be made well in advance. At night, if windows were tinted, that would make it very difficult. I am just making a lot of assumptions here but it might end up being that identification without the occupant leaving the vehicle would not be likely. Another assumption I'm making is it might be possible that the vehicle they shot was for whatever reason, operating in a way that might have added weight to their concern that it was the bad guy. It might be explained that a vehicle matching the description ( I know, it was the wrong make and color but at night, how different would they look?) was ignoring orders to stop. In most cases, when people are ordered to stop by police they stop. However, sometimes it's the bad guy and they don't want to stop. In rare occasions it's people who are completely Innocent, yet panic or get confused. Most times this end with no one getting shot at. In this particular case maybe the officers considered the situation, and with seconds to decide, decided wrongly that the vehicle contained a guy with an automatic weapon with the intent to kill them and others.

I am offering the assumptions because you are asking me, even though I don't have the information. So I'm offering possibilities. But as I said in the past, while I can understand in certain situations making the wrong decision based on the information they had at the time, because their decision was wrong, there should be consequences for their actions. I don't think they were out to kill innocent people. I don't think they take life any less seriously than you or I. I think they had a tough assignment and made the wrong decision under sucky conditions that they may or may not have had the choice to create.             
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #172 on: March 26, 2013, 02:38:31 PM »

Jack I don't know. I don't know if given the terrain it was even possible to be positioned so that positive ID could be made before it would be too late. In a perfect setting they would be set up to where there were bright lights, identification of the occupant could be made well in advance. At night, if windows were tinted, that would make it very difficult. I am just making a lot of assumptions here but it might end up being that identification without the occupant leaving the vehicle would not be likely. Another assumption I'm making is it might be possible that the vehicle they shot was for whatever reason, operating in a way that might have added weight to their concern that it was the bad guy. It might be explained that a vehicle matching the description ( I know, it was the wrong make and color but at night, how different would they look?) was ignoring orders to stop. In most cases, when people are ordered to stop by police they stop. However, sometimes it's the bad guy and they don't want to stop. In rare occasions it's people who are completely Innocent, yet panic or get confused. Most times this end with no one getting shot at. In this particular case maybe the officers considered the situation, and with seconds to decide, decided wrongly that the vehicle contained a guy with an automatic weapon with the intent to kill them and others.

I am offering the assumptions because you are asking me, even though I don't have the information. So I'm offering possibilities. But as I said in the past, while I can understand in certain situations making the wrong decision based on the information they had at the time, because their decision was wrong, there should be consequences for their actions.  I don't think they were out to kill innocent people. I don't think they take life any less seriously than you or I. I think they had a tough assignment and made the wrong decision under sucky conditions that they may or may not have had the choice to create.             

You wouldn't say they did that, that morning?
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« Reply #173 on: March 26, 2013, 02:45:15 PM »

You wouldn't say they did that, that morning?

He would not... Trust me on this.
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Jack T. Cross
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« Reply #174 on: March 26, 2013, 02:46:11 PM »

By the way, 007, you don't disagree that the police entered the assignment knowing that it was a threat from a heavily-armed, extremely dangerous person they were protecting against, right?
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