Author Topic: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily  (Read 15561 times)

Fatpanda

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2009, 02:45:13 PM »
Aren't you a team Milos athlete or am I thinking of someone else? So you think insulin use like this will cause diabetes eventually?



I don't think fructose spikes insulin even more than glucose for example. Do you have data to support this? The problem with very LARGE intakes of fructose is the metabolic pathways it takes and how it's converted to fat "easily". But even here, it's really not fructose itself that's dangerous but overconsumption of it and calories in general. Did you see the recent news about the fructose hysteria?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/health/nutrition/10brod.html?_r=1&em

So I don't agree with you about cabrs spiking insulin being the  cause of obesity. It's the increase in calories primarily. You can get ripped as hell eating only very high glycemic carbs so obviously high GI isn't what makes you fat.



van you are 100% correct. insulin does not make you fat excess calories do.

if you eat 2000cals below maintenance you will lose weight, regardless if you eat fructose, sucrose, lactose, protein, or fats. study after study backs the fact that calories are what counts in regards to weight loss or gain.

protein = muscle

carbs/fats = energy ( stored glycogen/bodyfat)

if you reduce calories via a reduction in protein you will lose primarily muscle.

if you reduce calories via a reduction in carbs or fats or a combination you will lose primarily bodyfat.

obviously there are other factors that skew the perfection of this simple explanation such as, natural test levels, activity levels, amount of calorie reduction, thyroid levels, survival mechanisms, etc but the science backs what i'm saying 100%.
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shiftedShapes

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #76 on: February 13, 2009, 02:58:31 PM »
Assuming caloric intake remains constant, and that he reaches 400 grams protein by lowering carbs and fat accordingly, what gains would he see?  Any?
topic name is good onion headline

Tamer Razor

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2009, 02:58:45 PM »
Aren't you a team Milos athlete or am I thinking of someone else? So you think insulin use like this will cause diabetes eventually?



I don't think fructose spikes insulin even more than glucose for example. Do you have data to support this? The problem with very LARGE intakes of fructose is the metabolic pathways it takes and how it's converted to fat "easily". But even here, it's really not fructose itself that's dangerous but overconsumption of it and calories in general. Did you see the recent news about the fructose hysteria?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/health/nutrition/10brod.html?_r=1&em

So I don't agree with you about cabrs spiking insulin being the  cause of obesity. It's the increase in calories primarily. You can get ripped as hell eating only very high glycemic carbs so obviously high GI isn't what makes you fat.


I do not work with Milos Sarcev, I believe him to be very,very knowledgeable even though I disagree with some of his view regarding nutrition. I have a Background in Molecular Biology. I work with Hany Rambod as I strongly support his approach to Diet and Exercise.
In the past, fructose was considered beneficial to diabetics because it is absorbed only 40 percent as quickly as glucose and causes only a modest rise in blood sugar. However, research on other hormonal factors suggests that fructose actually promotes disease more readily than glucose. Glucose is metabolized in every cell in the body but all fructose must be metabolized in the liver. The livers of test animals fed large amounts of fructose develop fatty deposits and cirrhosis, similar to problems that develop in the livers of alcoholics.

Pure fructose contains no enzymes, vitamins or minerals and robs the body of its micronutrient treasures in order to assimilate itself for physiological use. While naturally occurring sugars, as well as sucrose, contain fructose bound to other sugars, high fructose corn syrup contains a good deal of "free" or unbound fructose.  Research indicates that this free fructose interferes with the heart’s use of key minerals like magnesium, copper and chromium. Among other consequences, HFCS has been implicated in elevated blood cholesterol levels and the creation of blood clots.  It has been found to inhibit the action of white blood cells so that they are unable to defend the body against harmful foreign invaders.

Studies on the Maillard reaction indicate that fructose may contribute to diabetic complications more readily than glucose. The Maillard reaction is a browning reaction that occurs when compounds are exposed to various sugars. Fructose browns food seven times faster than glucose, resulting in a decrease in protein quality and a toxicity of protein in the body. This is due to the loss of amino acid residues and decreased protein digestibility. Maillard products can inhibit the uptake and metabolism of free amino acids and other nutrients such as zinc, and some advanced Maillard products have mutagenic and/or carcinogenic properties. The Maillard reactions between proteins and fructose, glucose, and other sugars may play a role in aging and in some clinical complications of diabetes.

Fructose reduces the affinity of insulin for its receptor, which is the hallmark of type-2 diabetes. This is the first step for glucose to enter a cell and be metabolized. As a result, the body needs to pump out more insulin to handle the same amount of glucose.

drkaje

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2009, 03:11:11 PM »
Why don't people believe exogenous insulin use will have a long term effect on insulin resistance?

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2009, 03:16:00 PM »
Why don't people believe exogenous insulin use will have a long term effect on insulin resistance?

More than consuming the same amount of carbs without the exogenous insulin you mean?

I do not work with Milos Sarcev, I believe him to be very,very knowledgeable even though I disagree with some of his view regarding nutrition. I have a Background in Molecular Biology. I work with Hany Rambod as I strongly support his approach to Diet and Exercise.


Alright.

As far as the rest of your post it's usually good etiquette to reference what you're cutting and pasting.  ;)

http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html#author


Tamer Razor

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2009, 03:26:20 PM »
More than consuming the same amount of carbs without the exogenous insulin you mean?

Alright.

As far as the rest of your post it's usually good etiquette to reference what you're cutting and pasting.  ;)

http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html#author



Sorry, I thought I had copy some of the references in the end.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2009, 03:29:49 PM »
Sorry, I thought I had copy some of the references in the end.

No I mean you didn't write that article you pasted, right? It wasn't "your words". That kind of thing looks bad when pasted into a post as if you just wrote it up like that.  :)

Tamer Razor

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2009, 03:35:40 PM »
No I mean you didn't write that article you pasted, right? It wasn't "your words". That kind of thing looks bad when pasted into a post as if you just wrote it up like that.  :)

That is what I meant, I should have posted the references to the article.

The ChemistV2

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2009, 03:36:01 PM »
Why don't people believe exogenous insulin use will have a long term effect on insulin resistance?
I would have to believe that taking exogenous insulin over extended periods of time, would cause the pancreas to eventually shut down it's normal production to some degree, much in the way testoterones and thyroid hormones also cause a decrease in the production of those hormones. I don't know for sure and would need to see studies for proof, but it seems logical. However, if a non diabetic is willing to take insulin "to make their muscles bigger" and then try to time glucose or carb ingestions, so they don't lapse into a hypoglycemic coma, obviously health isn't a big priority to them. So to answer your question, I don't think they really care about future insulin resistance. Hell, Milos said it's ok, so that should be good enough. LOL

body88

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2009, 04:23:05 PM »
sorry to dissapoint u bud but i am........ i competed as a jnr at just over 200lbs,, and it took alot more than 200g to get there....

Right, but you are on juice.  A natural human will not process 400 grams of protein per day  ::)  Unless you are 6'5 that well over 200lbs of lean muscle tissue.  Post some pictures so we can take a look at what 400 grams can do.

body88

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2009, 04:25:30 PM »
I totally agree with Fatpanda.  Do I need a scientific explanation for this?  Nope, it's all about experience. ::) 

We can assume that you are speaking to those who use steriods, correct?

drkaje

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2009, 05:22:53 PM »
I would have to believe that taking exogenous insulin over extended periods of time, would cause the pancreas to eventually shut down it's normal production to some degree, much in the way testoterones and thyroid hormones also cause a decrease in the production of those hormones. I don't know for sure and would need to see studies for proof, but it seems logical. However, if a non diabetic is willing to take insulin "to make their muscles bigger" and then try to time glucose or carb ingestions, so they don't lapse into a hypoglycemic coma, obviously health isn't a big priority to them. So to answer your question, I don't think they really care about future insulin resistance. Hell, Milos said it's ok, so that should be good enough. LOL

I doubt taking insulin can be anything but bad for long term health.

Ursus

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2009, 07:00:52 PM »
id love to see pics of some of the monsters eating less then 200g per day........ i would bet good money that they all look like average everyday people, maybe defined if they actualy do train at all......

why be on a bodybuilding site if u dont want to build your body, best thing about the sport is the eating for fucks sake!

i eat around 150-180g max a day. I am 231lbs. By no means a monster but it has done me no harm

Fatpanda

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2009, 04:40:22 AM »
No I mean you didn't write that article you pasted, right? It wasn't "your words". That kind of thing looks bad when pasted into a post as if you just wrote it up like that.  :)
hahahahahahahahaha owned !
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Marty Champions

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2009, 05:40:23 AM »
i used to do 400-600 grams a day didnt do shit
A

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2009, 06:00:40 AM »
i used to do 400-600 grams a day didnt do shit

and you couldn't shite daily either I bet...
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Marty Champions

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #91 on: February 14, 2009, 06:08:24 AM »
and you couldn't shite daily either I bet...

i still shitted cause i was eating other food also but it didnt do anything with all that protien
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wavelength

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2009, 06:12:32 AM »
i used to do 400-600 grams a day didnt do shit

Well it added calories to the diet.

Jadethegladiator

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Re: Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily
« Reply #93 on: February 14, 2009, 06:24:30 PM »
We can assume that you are speaking to those who use steriods, correct?

Not at all.  I am just offering my opinion to the everyday bodybuilder.  Try it (high protein that is), you might like it.  For most ppl, it works.