what the hell is the point of GH???

[HRDCOR]

The correct environment is making sure you get optimal conversion to IGF1 once the Gh is taken(for it is this hormone that is responsable for all the new tissue growth(not the GH), this synergistic effect is best done with the use of a rapid insulin, although good effects can be achieved with manipulation of ones blood sugar levels via food intake(but most opt for the more easy direct approach)
Once this equation has been satisfied you then need to supply the body optimally with nutrients(calories)to enable the IGF1 with enough ammo to do its job probably so to speak.
For tissue growth you need a positive nitrogen state and this can be enhanced dramatical via the use of a anabolic steroid, this coupled with adequate nutrients and above normal blood plasma levels of IGF1 floating around creates a magnificent growing environment !!!
So for those whom say Gh is useless , they are partly right in this observation , but truth be known put the above equation together and it results in fantastic growth capability's, far greater ability than if only part of the above was implemented !!!!

[Disgusted]

The correct environment is making sure you get optimal conversion to IGF1 once the Gh is taken(for it is this hormone that is responsable for all the new tissue growth(not the GH), this synergistic effect is best done with the use of a rapid insulin, although good effects can be achieved with manipulation of ones blood sugar levels via food intake(but most opt for the more easy direct approach)
Once this equation has been satisfied you then need to supply the body optimally with nutrients(calories)to enable the IGF1 with enough ammo to do its job probably so to speak.
For tissue growth you need a positive nitrogen state and this can be enhanced dramatical via the use of a anabolic steroid, this coupled with adequate nutrients and above normal blood plasma levels of IGF1 floating around creates a magnificent growing environment !!!
So for those whom say Gh is useless , they are partly right in this observation , but truth be known put the above equation together and it results in fantastic growth capability's, far greater ability than if only part of the above was implemented !!!!

THen why not just take IGF and a bunch of celltech? High doses of insluin will give you bodyweight gains of that caiber but I do not think that this kind of weight for weights sake looks good. Insulin is destroying that look of bodybuilding. Like I said, GH does not give muscle gains of 20-40 pounds. Can you show us any before and after pics of guys adding this kind of weight from taking GH?

[HRDCOR]

A few reason why IGF1 is not taken (well actually it is to those who have access to it )
1) It is made via Independent labs for specific  medicinal purposes only and is not mass produced the likes of GH.
2) Because of the above it is usually let go into the market(black or legit)at overly exaggerated pricing
3) Igf1 is very delicate in its structure and is easily damaged via transportation
4) and because of all the above most opt for the easier option of more redidly available Gh

And No I cant show before and afters as they are Private clientele and there is such a thing client protocol, you will just have to take my word for it (if you want ,you don't have to)

I do agree Insulin is a very dangerous hormone to be using and i would rather people not use it , but if they choose to it is not my position to judge but to offer advice as best i can to make it save for them and to make sure it is all done in a responsable and rational way !!!

[Hendrix]

I know a few guys who take the triple cake of HGH,IGF,Insulin and one thing i have noticed is these guys are not just getting bigger but there matobolisms have changed they are leaner and stronger but also there calorie intake has gone through the roof.
24iu of HGH a day may cause increased muscle hypotherapy but the main thing i notice is there calorie intake has almost doubled and they keep that lean mass.Though i do know personally of one bodybuilder who used heavy amounts of growth hormone and it enlarged his heart causing very serious complications he was over 300 pounds and is now a shadow of his former self weighingsomewhere under 200 pounds.Playing Russian Roullete.

[JOHN MATRIX]

on average conditioning is far worse now than in the days before its rampant misuse.

[BayGBM]

I don’t know much about steroids and supplements but I will say this…

I had a muscle buddy in LA I used to visit a lot when I lived in San Francisco.  When I first met him he was on a lot of stuff including HGH.  He was thick and heavily muscled!  His kitchen cabinet looked like a pharmacy.  I know he was on HGH among other things because he told me.  There came a time when he had a conflict with his insurance company and they cut off any payments for his HGH.  He had to fight with them for nearly a year to get them to pay for it.  He was a lawyer, and eventually he won his fight: the insurance company resumed payments for all his HGH from his local pharmacy.  All his drugs came directly from the pharmacy.  Again, I know this because he told me and I went with him to the pharmacy any number of times when he had to pick up his next stash. 

He could easily afford the other supplements he took (Deca, Test, etc.) but he wanted/needed the insurance company to pay for his HGH; apparently it was very expensive.

I visited LA a lot and stayed at his place whenever I was down there. I went to the gym with him often and even administered some of his injections (please no jokes).  All of this is to say that I saw his body many many times at different periods in his various cycles.  I could immediately tell when he was off HGH and I could tell when he resumed it.  It made a big difference in his muscle mass.  Without it he was still obviously a serious bodybuilder, but when he was on it, his body jumped up to a much higher--and instantly recognizable--level.

[Gord]

I don’t know much about steroids and supplements but I will say this…

I had a muscle buddy in LA I used to visit a lot when I lived in San Francisco.  When I first met him he was on a lot of stuff including HGH.  He was thick and heavily muscled!  His kitchen cabinet looked like a pharmacy.  I know he was on HGH among other things because he told me.  There came a time when he had a conflict with his insurance company and they cut off any payments for his HGH.  He had to fight with them for nearly a year to get them to pay for it.  He was a lawyer, and eventually he won his fight: the insurance company resumed payments for all his HGH from his local pharmacy.  All his drugs came directly from the pharmacy.  Again, I know this because he told me and I went with him to the pharmacy any number of times when he had to pick up his next stash. 

He could easily afford the other supplements he took (Deca, Test, etc.) but he wanted/needed the insurance company to pay for his HGH; apparently it was very expensive.

I visited LA a lot and stayed at his place whenever I was down there. I could immediately tell when he was off HGH and I could tell when he resumed it.  It made a big difference in his muscle mass.  Without it he was still obviously a serious bodybuilder, but when he was on it, his body jumped up to a much higher--and instantly recognizable--level.

On what grounds did he presuade the insurance company to pay for his HGH?

[BayGBM]

On what grounds did he presuade the insurance company to pay for his HGH?

I dunno.  But he did and the HGH made a very noticeable difference in his physique.  He also had huge meaty hands & fingers.  I didn't think much of it at the time, but now I am fairly certain that HGH was the cause of his oversized digits.  It was hot if you like that sort of thing.

[suckmymuscle]

I don’t know much about steroids and supplements but I will say this…

I had a muscle buddy in LA I used to visit a lot when I lived in San Francisco.  When I first met him he was on a lot of stuff including HGH.  He was thick and heavily muscled!  His kitchen cabinet looked like a pharmacy.  I know he was on HGH among other things because he told me.  There came a time when he had a conflict with his insurance company and they cut off any payments for his HGH.  He had to fight with them for nearly a year to get them to pay for it.  He was a lawyer, and eventually he won his fight: the insurance company resumed payments for all his HGH from his local pharmacy.  All his drugs came directly from the pharmacy.  Again, I know this because he told me and I went with him to the pharmacy any number of times when he had to pick up his next stash. 

He could easily afford the other supplements he took (Deca, Test, etc.) but he wanted/needed the insurance company to pay for his HGH; apparently it was very expensive.

I visited LA a lot and stayed at his place whenever I was down there. I went to the gym with him often and even administered some of his injections (please no jokes).  All of this is to say that I saw his body many many times at different periods in his various cycles.  I could immediately tell when he was off HGH and I could tell when he resumed it.  It made a big difference in his muscle mass.  Without it he was still obviously a serious bodybuilder, but when he was on it, his body jumped up to a much higher--and instantly recognizable--level.

  "Muscle buddy"...I don't think I want to read the rest of this story.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[BayGBM]

  "Muscle buddy"...I don't think I want to read the rest of this story.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Yet you did, didn’t you?  SUCKMYMUSCLE, you are far too predictable. 

[Van_Bilderass]

HIV = insurance pays for the GH. Right, baygbm?

[BayGBM]

HIV = insurance pays for the GH. Right, baygbm?

That would be my conclusion.  It's not exactly rocket science.   Though from what I hear, not all doctors and insurance companies agree on the need for HGH as part of a regimen.  Many insurance companies will not pay for it depending on the condition of the patient and what the physician does or does not say.  Apparently, the recreational/cosmetic use and abuse (private sales?) of HGH by many ostensibly “sick” patients that “need” HGH have led to a big clamp down by insurance companies.  I never did find out how much it costs but it was enough that my friend fought for months with his company to make them foot the bill, and I am certain he would not have won that fight if he did not have so many legal resources at his command.

[Gord]

Exactly why is the stuff so expensive?

[HRDCOR]

Its called ---- PROFITTERIN------ which is illegal in day to day necessity consumable items !!???

[suckmymuscle]

Yet you did, didn’t you?  SUCKMYMUSCLE, you are far too predictable. 

  Nope. I stopped right there. Prove me wrong, girl.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Disgusted]

A few reason why IGF1 is not taken (well actually it is to those who have access to it )
1) It is made via Independent labs for specific  medicinal purposes only and is not mass produced the likes of GH.
2) Because of the above it is usually let go into the market(black or legit)at overly exaggerated pricing
3) Igf1 is very delicate in its structure and is easily damaged via transportation
4) and because of all the above most opt for the easier option of more redidly available Gh

And No I cant show before and afters as they are Private clientele and there is such a thing client protocol, you will just have to take my word for it (if you want ,you don't have to)

I do agree Insulin is a very dangerous hormone to be using and i would rather people not use it , but if they choose to it is not my position to judge but to offer advice as best i can to make it save for them and to make sure it is all done in a responsable and rational way !!!

 I hear ya, but I have known guys to take IGF (real) and not gain anywhere near 20-40 pounds. I have seen guys gains close to that using insulin alone but again it is not pretty weight. Kind of a bulky bloated look.

So your saying  that in order for GH to convert to IGF you have to take insulin and or take in a certain amount of simple carbs like dextrose correct? I wasn't aware that a high level of insulin was needed  for GH conversion to IGF. Are there medical studies to prove this or is this something that you are postulating based on experience. 

[CT]

There is indeed scientific evidence that insulin is needed for the release of IGF-1 ... the following abstracts are from:

PH Sonksen, Hormones and sport; Insulin, growth hormone and sport, Journal of endocrinology, 170; 13-25 (2001)

[Disgusted]

There is indeed scientific evidence that insulin is needed for the release of IGF-1 ... the following abstracts are from:

PH Sonksen, Hormones and sport; Insulin, growth hormone and sport, Journal of endocrinology, 170; 13-25 (2001)

Hardcore said that insulin is needed to be present to "convert" exogenis GH to IGF. (I do not see this as being true) The study that you post only says that insulin is essential for the anabolic action of GH. It also uses anorexia and diabetics as examples . This is a far cry from healthy bodybuilders. Thanks for the info but in this case we are talking about insulins need to be present to "convert" exogenis GH to IGF. To different things.

[CT]

hGH is not converted to IGF-1. hGH (in the presence of insulin) stimulates the production/release of IGF-1

[CT]

This figure is from the same source. While it isn't directly related to the subject at hands, it can still be of interest.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Years later, is this thread relevant?

[dyslexic]

That is my explaination.
Sometimes a Picture is worth a Thousand Words.
If this is what you want to look like, Enjoy!

Or this:

[brent2741]

why in the hell do pros use so much GH nowdays? i cant think of any benefits...nowdays pros heads and guts are attaining freaking sizes, their hands are like shovels, their skin is thicker and no ones really very detailed anymore, its expensive....

there are plenty of other drugs around, that have been around forever,  that do the job fine while avoiding all these affects of GH abuse. the pros of past years seem to have been of better quality; less guts, less mutant heads,more shredded and more human looking.

what is the reason, the benefit, of increased GH usage for a pro bber?

if you dont know then..... you just dont know

[tbombz]

pretty cool thread actually, if ya read it all the way through