I do them on back day at the end. I never agreed with them on shoulder day, it makes no sense. and since doing them on backday they grew like weeds. i'll do 3-4 working sets with a warmup set to start. just ONE excersise, i'll either pick dumbells (standing or seated), Barbell, or smith. and leave your ego at home....shrug properly and they will grow. sometimes for barbell i don't go any heavier than 275. Hold the squeeze at the top and come down for a full stretch, do them super slow and controlled. then once you have that down you can go heavy and not look like the rest of the dumbasses that don't have a clue what they are doing.