Author Topic: New York Spankees well upon their way to being outta the post-season. (Read 10643 times)

Grape Ape · « **Reply #50 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:35:21 AM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 10:11:49 AM

Torre should be gone IMO. His lineups for those games were stupifying.

Sitting Sheff against a lefty and Giambi against a rightly was just plain dumb. He should have stood pat with the game one lineup.

Chemistry is a crock, though. There have been plenty of teams with dissent that have one. You could argue that winning breed chemistry. The Yankees actually had a pretty loose clubhouse this year, though the national media will never print it.

Royalty · « **Reply #51 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:51:15 AM »

Quote from: Grape Ape on October 08, 2006, 10:35:21 AM

Chemistry is a crock, though. There have been plenty of teams with dissent that have one. You could argue that winning breed chemistry. The Yankees actually had a pretty loose clubhouse this year, though the national media will never print it.

I know that guys like Jeter, Posada..ect who have several world series rings would sit next to A-Rod and give him advice and he would just stare straight ahead and act as is he was sitting alone and not hearing a thing.

Grape Ape · « **Reply #52 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:56:18 AM »

Quote from: Royalty on October 08, 2006, 10:51:15 AM

I know that guys like Jeter, Posada..ect who have several world series rings would sit next to A-Rod and give him advice and he would just stare straight ahead and act as is he was sitting alone and not hearing a thing.

I'd like to read this. Do you have a link? I read this blog daily - http://www.thejournalnews.com/blogs/lohudyankees.html - he's a beat reporter for the team and posts some good inside stuff.

Doesn't that story sound sort of contrived? Like Jeter and/or Posada would be sitting there actually giving advice while a reporter looked on?

Posada was only the starting cather for one of those rings. I just don't believe and all of this chemistry stuff. The Yankees lost becasue their bats went cold and their SP was poor.

bmacsys · « **Reply #53 on:** October 08, 2006, 11:19:24 AM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 09:07:00 AM

I'm as big a Yankee fan as anyone but they need to let some of these big name players go. Since the Yankees signed A-Rod, Sheffield and Giambi they are 4-12 in the postseason. These guys don't produce when it really counts in NY....The Playoffs. I hope A-Rod gets hit by a fvcking bus, for real. He is a spineless Primadonna, The Yanks can't get rid of him fast enough for me.

The Yankees miss gamers like Paul ONeil and Tino Martinez.

bmacsys · « **Reply #54 on:** October 08, 2006, 11:21:41 AM »

Quote from: Royalty on October 08, 2006, 10:14:37 AM

according the todays New York Times, torre is done.

John Kruk and others sounded dissapointed on ESPN when they heard the news but Torre is out

If Joe goes I sure hopethey can do it gracefully. Joe deserves that much.

blinky · « **Reply #55 on:** October 08, 2006, 04:34:12 PM »

Quote from: Royalty on October 08, 2006, 07:38:46 AM

Torre will be fired and replaced by Lou Pinella

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-BBA-Yankees-Torre.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

ya i saw the report on tv today too...sounds like its gonna happen

body88 · « **Reply #56 on:** October 08, 2006, 04:44:48 PM »

Quote from: bmacsys on October 08, 2006, 08:52:39 AM

You know shit about baseball just like you don't know shit about bodybuilding. Jeter is sure handed, doesn't make many errors and turns a great double play. He doesn't have great range. Ortiz team didn't do shit except basically quit after the Yankees swept them in August. How does an MVP come from a team that basically mailed it in for August and September? Ortiz doesn't play a position. Jeter plays the most important position on the field. Jeter did his part against the Tigers. He played a solid shortstop and went 7 for 14. He isn't the reason the Yankees lost.

Hhaha yes what I said was so off base! Like I said the only people who think Jeter is a good defensive ss are delusional Yankees fans. he is the second best ss on the team! Have fun in the offseason!!!!

As for the MVP I seem to remember A choke getting it while on a last place team a few years back:

Switch Jeter and Ortiz this year. Sox still don't make the playoffs.The Yankees put up some of the best offensive numbers ever seen.Most likley win the world series.

Take the argument Jeter plays the field and Ortiz is a dh. Toss it. That would hurt Jeter.He is average at best defensivley. This is supposed to be the MVP!!!! The best baby!!! I will give you he is a average pro ss. So no harm no foul. Now take all the offensive numbers. Ortiz kills him in them all. He has like 40 more homeruns lol. Not to mention 13 game winning hits.He held that team together before the slew of injuries.You fools forget the entire starting Sox lineup was out in the end. Ortiz Won 13 games on his own.Definition of clutch. Now take in to account 3 players have over 100 RBIs on the Yankees

yeah so hard to hold that team together Jeter

The sox had 10 times the devastating injuries the Yankees did. Not only that the Yankees still had there superstar 230 million dollar pay role. What a terrible lineup you guys had to suffer through. That NY lineup was still better than most major league lineups while injured. You had most all your pitchers all year also.

10 bucks says you do not even watch the Sox besides when they play the choke squad.

You know so much lol.... Please.

Palpatine Q · « **Reply #57 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:03:13 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 08, 2006, 04:44:48 PM

.So take the argument Jeter plays the field. Toss it.

Okay....lets just "toss" ortiz's homers too

Imbecile.

bmacsys · « **Reply #58 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:03:17 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 08, 2006, 04:44:48 PM

Hhaha yes what I said was so off base! Like I said the only people who think Jeter is a good defensive ss are delusional Yankees fans. he is the second best ss on the team! Have fun in the offseason!!!!

As for the MVP I seem to remember A choke getting it while on a last place team a few years back: Switch Jeter and Ortiz this year. Sox still don't make the playoffs.The Yankees put up some of the best offensive numbers ever seen.So take the argument Jeter plays the field. Toss it. That would hurt him. I will give you he is a average pro ss. So no harm no foul. Now take all the offensive numbers. Ortiz kills him in them all. He has like 40 more homeruns lol. Not to mention 13 game winning hits. Now take in to account 3 players have over 100 RBIs on the Yankees yeah so hard to hold that team together Jeter The sox had 10 times the devastating injuries the Yankees did. Not only that the Yankees still had there superstar 230 million dollar pay role. What a terrible lineup you guys had to suffer through. That NY lineup was still better than most major league lineups while injured. You had most all your pitchers all year also.

10 bucks says you do not even watch the Sox besides when they play the choke squad.

You know so much lol.... Please.

Nobody is listening to you so drone on. You don't know shit about baseball. I think both Red Sox and Yankee fans will agree on that point.

bmacsys · « **Reply #59 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:04:14 PM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 05:03:13 PM

Okay....lets just "toss" ortiz's homers too

Imbecile.

He is another guy who gets more annoying with every post.

body88 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:06:17 PM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 05:03:13 PM

Okay....lets just "toss" ortiz's homers too

Imbecile.

Why would you use playing the field as an argument for Jeter? Jeter is average at best defensivley. how does that help his case? He is supposed to be the mvp...

Haha Yankees fans

body88 · « **Reply #61 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:07:16 PM »

Quote from: bmacsys on October 08, 2006, 05:04:14 PM

He is another guy who gets more annoying with every post.

Haha ok bmacys... Why dont you go suck some cock on the general board..
hahah tell me where my post was so crazy. Everything I said in the post was accurate. What wasent? You know so much what was off?

You are just mad you yankees chocked yet again.

Palpatine Q · « **Reply #62 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:12:46 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 08, 2006, 05:06:17 PM

Why would you use playing the field as an argument? Jeter is average at best defensivley. how does that help his case? He is supposed to be the mvp...

haha Yankees fans

Jeter is a godd defensive shortstop. Not great,good.

Ortiz sits on his ass in the dugout when his team is on the field, he CAN'T EVEN PLAY DEFENSE.

body88 · « **Reply #63 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:13:48 PM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 05:12:46 PM

Jeter is a godd defensive shortstop. Not great,good.

Ortiz sits on his ass in the dugout when his team is on the field, he CAN'T EVEN PLAY DEFENSE.

Ortiz is 10 times the player Jeter beater could ever wish to be (j/k).Ok maybe not 10 times!! Jeter is considered a average ss at best(defensivley). If you do not know that then you are the one who knows nothing about baseball. Derek jeter is a GREAT player. He is not a mvp. His team is just to stacked. Lets see him play for a shitter without all the hitters always on base.

I said since he was a decent ss the field should not count for or against him. Although you could argue it should count against him. You guys say I know nothing yet my entire post was accurate haha.

ps ortiz has 40 more homeruns than THE MAN!!!

Palpatine Q · « **Reply #64 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:24:21 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 08, 2006, 05:13:48 PM

I said since he was a decent ss the field should not count against or for him. Although you could argue it should count against him. You guys say i know nothing yet my entire post was accurate haha.

the fact that Ortiz doesn't even play a position automatically disqualifies him.

It's call the MVP...as in PLAYER. Not a fat fvcking DH who rides the bench. We can argue this all night long but the fact is I can guarantee you Ortiz won't EVER win the MVP because he's a DH. Oh and please stop saying mean things about the Yankees...your'e hurting my feelings

body88 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:28:14 PM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 05:24:21 PM

the fact that Ortiz doesn't even play a position automatically disqualifies him.

It's call the MVP...as in PLAYER. Not a fat fvcking DH who rides the bench. We can argue this all night long but the fact is I can guarantee you Ortiz won't EVER win the MVP because he's a DH. Oh and please stop saying mean things about the Yankees...your'e hurting my feelings

Fat? Sorry he isnt a steriod pumping goon bag like your boy Giambi. You would give your left testicle to have the fat bench rider on your team.

Haha you get personal with his looks? You got nothing huh? My question stands. Aside from the statement I made about jeter being the second best ss on the yankees tell me why I know nothing? Tell me what in my original post was inaccurate? What did I say that was a rediculous claim?

Here

Hhaha yes what I said was so off base! Like I said the only people who think Jeter is a good defensive ss are delusional Yankees fans. he is the second best ss on the team! Have fun in the offseason!!!!

As for the MVP I seem to remember A choke getting it while on a last place team a few years back: Switch Jeter and Ortiz this year. Sox still don't make the playoffs.The Yankees put up some of the best offensive numbers ever seen.So take the argument Jeter plays the field. Toss it. That would hurt him. I will give you he is a average pro ss. So no harm no foul. Now take all the offensive numbers. Ortiz kills him in them all. He has like 40 more homeruns lol. Not to mention 13 game winning hits. Now take in to account 3 players have over 100 RBIs on the Yankees yeah so hard to hold that team together Jeter The sox had 10 times the devastating injuries the Yankees did. Not only that the Yankees still had there superstar 230 million dollar pay role. What a terrible lineup you guys had to suffer through. That NY lineup was still better than most major league lineups while injured. You had most all your pitchers all year also.

10 bucks says you do not even watch the Sox besides when they play the choke squad.

You know so much lol.... Please.

blinky · « **Reply #66 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:44:29 PM »

gotta love the yankee fans vs red sox fans

Palpatine Q · « **Reply #67 on:** October 08, 2006, 06:53:35 PM »

Quote from: body88 on October 08, 2006, 05:28:14 PM

Fat? Sorry he isnt a steriod pumping goon bag like your boy Giambi. You would give your left testicle to have the fat bench rider on your team.

Haha you get personal with his looks? You got nothing huh? My question stands. Aside from the statement I made about jeter being the second best ss on the yankees tell me why I know nothing? Tell me what in my original post was inaccurate? What did I say that was a rediculous claim?

Here

Hhaha yes what I said was so off base! Like I said the only people who think Jeter is a good defensive ss are delusional Yankees fans. he is the second best ss on the team! Have fun in the offseason!!!!

As for the MVP I seem to remember A choke getting it while on a last place team a few years back: Switch Jeter and Ortiz this year. Sox still don't make the playoffs.The Yankees put up some of the best offensive numbers ever seen.So take the argument Jeter plays the field. Toss it. That would hurt him. I will give you he is a average pro ss. So no harm no foul. Now take all the offensive numbers. Ortiz kills him in them all. He has like 40 more homeruns lol. Not to mention 13 game winning hits. Now take in to account 3 players have over 100 RBIs on the Yankees yeah so hard to hold that team together Jeter The sox had 10 times the devastating injuries the Yankees did. Not only that the Yankees still had there superstar 230 million dollar pay role. What a terrible lineup you guys had to suffer through. That NY lineup was still better than most major league lineups while injured. You had most all your pitchers all year also.

10 bucks says you do not even watch the Sox besides when they play the choke squad.

You know so much lol.... Please.

I don't say this often but.........Meltdown.

Goddamn man, I really don't give half a shit,relax.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #68 on:** October 08, 2006, 09:36:10 PM »

Quote from: Groink on October 08, 2006, 05:24:21 PM

the fact that Ortiz doesn't even play a position automatically disqualifies him.

It's call the MVP...as in PLAYER. Not a fat fvcking DH who rides the bench. We can argue this all night long but the fact is I can guarantee you Ortiz won't EVER win the MVP because he's a DH. Oh and please stop saying mean things about the Yankees...your'e hurting my feelings

You know what's so comical about this point of view? Every Yankees fan on the planet would sell their first born into slavery to have David Ortiz on the Yankees, oh by the way, that includes Steinbrenner. And if Ortiz was a Yankee (God forbid) then these fools arguing about Papi not playing the field would be arguing how that doesn't matter. Think about this, hitting in Yankee stadium 81 games a year with that short right field porch Ortiz would probably hit 65-70 homeruns a year. The most astonishing part of that statement is that it's not hyperbole. He's that good.

I don't think Ortiz deserves the MVP this year for a number of reasons but he sure as hell deserved it last year and he was robbed when he didn't win it. To me in order to win the MVP a player's team has to make it to the post season so to me, Ortiz doesn't qualify this year.

When you weigh the value of an individual player to a team no one has more impact than Ortiz, no one. Without Ortiz the Red Sox aren't even remotely the same team. Without Arod or Jeter the Chokees are still an excellent team full of high priced All Stars.

To me Rivera is the most valuable Yankee, without him closing games the Yankees don't win nearly as many games as they've won in the last 10 years.

body88 · « **Reply #69 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:00:21 PM »

Good post! Even though you do not think Ortiz is the MVP you see how Jeter gets the nod due to who he plays for/with. Three different guys on that lineup with over 100 rbi's

Yeah real hard to hold that team together. These guys are mad the Yankees choked yet again. Typical Yankees fans. Not to mention the guy is a "decent" pro ss? This is supposed to be the MVP. Every single stat I laid out was accurate. Yet they tell me I know nothing haha. Then they argue no MVP should come from a non playoff team. Well tell that to Arod on the last place rangers a few years back

Jeter is a great player.He is not the MVP tho. I would love to see him play for a team that wasn't absolutely stacked. I bet you anything his numbers wouldn't be as good. Like effin said. Ortiz is the Red Sox. Jeter is just one of the MANY superstars. You take Ortiz out of that lineup even when the Sox are at full strength it is a huge blow. You take out Jeter and the Yanks are still absolutly stacked.

Flex 215 · « **Reply #70 on:** October 09, 2006, 12:26:03 AM »

Quote from: body88 on October 08, 2006, 10:00:21 PM

Good post! Even though you do not think Ortiz is the MVP you see how Jeter gets the nod due to who he plays for/with. Three different guys on that lineup with over 100 rbi's Yeah real hard to hold that team together. These guys are mad the Yankees choked yet again. Typical Yankees fans. Not to mention the guy is a "decent" pro ss? This is supposed to be the MVP. Every single stat I laid out was accurate. Yet they tell me I know nothing haha. Then they argue no MVP should come from a non playoff team. Well tell that to Arod on the last place rangers a few years back Jeter is a great player.He is not the MVP tho. I would love to see him play for a team that wasn't absolutely stacked. I bet you anything his numbers wouldn't be as good. Like effin said. Ortiz is the Red Sox. Jeter is just one of the MANY superstars. You take Ortiz out of that lineup even when the Sox are at full strength it is a huge blow. You take out Jeter and the Yanks are still absolutly stacked.

Let's see Ortiz in a poor line-up too. Ortiz is a beast, but Manny Ramirez is top 5 hitter in all of baseball, at least. Ramirez is a sure Hall-of-Famer, and if not for his protection in the line-up, Big Papi would not be getting pitches to hit very often. Especially late in the game in crucial situations, like those 13 game winning hits. Could easily be 1 or 2 game winning hits, and a lot of walks. Or strikouts if he wasn't patient enough, like a Bonds or Giambi.

I am not hating on Ortiz. Yes I hate him since he is so F*cking good for the Red Sox, and always semms to produce against the Yankees. And I would love to have him be the Yankees' DH, hitting to the short right-field porch. But he would not be anywhere near as good without Manny. Bonds or Pujols would kill a relative to have Manny Ramirez hitting behind them. Ryan Howard could challenge either Maris' non-enhanced record and Bond's HGH aided record with Ramirez inserted behind him in the lie-up. And Ortiz would still produce in NY because he would have enough protection, and enough people getting on base in front of him. But he would not have anywhere near the same production in a week line-up.

I do respect David Ortiz. I would say with great confidence that he is natural, as well as Ryan Howard, and Travis Hafner. Ken Griffey might be the only other one who could naturally hit 50 homers. Pujols and A-rod are probably natural, but I wouldn't be shocked if they were on.

And Jeter still has above average range at short. Not to mention he has had the best arm at short for the last decade. An absolute cannon, that enables him to make plays no one else can, throwing out fast runners from deep in the hole.

Flex 215 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 09, 2006, 12:44:20 AM »

Quote from: ieffinhatecardio on October 08, 2006, 09:36:10 PM

You know what's so comical about this point of view? Every Yankees fan on the planet would sell their first born into slavery to have David Ortiz on the Yankees, oh by the way, that includes Steinbrenner. And if Ortiz was a Yankee (God forbid) then these fools arguing about Papi not playing the field would be arguing how that doesn't matter. Think about this, hitting in Yankee stadium 81 games a year with that short right field porch Ortiz would probably hit 65-70 homeruns a year. The most astonishing part of that statement is that it's not hyperbole. He's that good.

I don't think Ortiz deserves the MVP this year for a number of reasons but he sure as hell deserved it last year and he was robbed when he didn't win it. To me in order to win the MVP a player's team has to make it to the post season so to me, Ortiz doesn't qualify this year.

When you weigh the value of an individual player to a team no one has more impact than Ortiz, no one. Without Ortiz the Red Sox aren't even remotely the same team. Without Arod or Jeter the Chokees are still an excellent team full of high priced All Stars.

To me Rivera is the most valuable Yankee, without him closing games the Yankees don't win nearly as many games as they've won in the last 10 years.

You make many great points, as far as us Yankee fans would love to have Ortiz as DH, and the importance of Rivera. But as for Ortiz getting robbed of the MVP last year I disagree.
If A-Rod would of played defense like he did this year, you would of been right. But many writers said he played almost Gold-Glove caliber 3rd base last year. And if you look at their Avg, Runs, HRs, and RBI's it was pretty close. Ortiz had 18 more RBI's, which is an important stat concerning MVP. A-rod had only one more HR, but hit 21 pts higher and scored 6 more runs. He also stole 21 bases, which was another way to be valuable, as he was not a liability on the bases, but actually able to take an extra base.
Because of defense and the steals, with other things being close to a wash, then I think the voters got it right. I am not of the school of thought that a DH cannot be MVP. But his main offensive stats would have to be singificantly higher. If Ortiz would have hit the same average as A-rod and scored as many runs, then maybe he should have gotten it, since he had 18 more RBI's then A-Rod.

ieffinhatecardio · « **Reply #72 on:** October 09, 2006, 07:44:47 AM »

Quote from: Flex 215 on October 09, 2006, 12:44:20 AM

You make many great points, as far as us Yankee fans would love to have Ortiz as DH, and the importance of Rivera. But as for Ortiz getting robbed of the MVP last year I disagree.
If A-Rod would of played defense like he did this year, you would of been right. But many writers said he played almost Gold-Glove caliber 3rd base last year. And if you look at their Avg, Runs, HRs, and RBI's it was pretty close. Ortiz had 18 more RBI's, which is an important stat concerning MVP. A-rod had only one more HR, but hit 21 pts higher and scored 6 more runs. He also stole 21 bases, which was another way to be valuable, as he was not a liability on the bases, but actually able to take an extra base.
Because of defense and the steals, with other things being close to a wash, then I think the voters got it right. I am not of the school of thought that a DH cannot be MVP. But his main offensive stats would have to be singificantly higher. If Ortiz would have hit the same average as A-rod and scored as many runs, then maybe he should have gotten it, since he had 18 more RBI's then A-Rod.

Wow, a rational Yankee fan, I'm going to need a few moments to recover from the shock.

In my opinion the MVP rewards value to a team and not necessarily a player's individual statistics. I know the line between those two can be fuzzy but I think there's an important distiction between the two. Ortiz's homerun numbers this year are outrageous but I don't think that should automatically make his an MVP candidate.

My point is the award should be solely based on an individaul's value to a team. That's why I think Rivera is and has been the most valuable Yankee over the last ten years. I'm not saying Jeter isn't great because he is but Rivera has been the ultimate stopper. I'm applying the same logic to Ortiz, he is so incredibly valuable to the Red Sox that I don't see how anyone could argue there is one player anywhere else in the AL whose team relies on him more.

As I said earlier, take Aron and Jeter off the Yankees and they are still an excellent team that is more than capable of winning it all, well except for the pitching. Take Ortiz off the Red Sox and any hope of them going to the playoffs is gone.

Now you make an excellent point regarding Manny, us Red Sox fans got a glimpse of what would happen without a good hitter behind Ortiz in the lineup, he becomes like Barry Bonds of a few years ago. Teams just won't pitch to him, when Manny quit on us at the end of the year Ortiz had many games where the opposing team walked him 3 times and pitched to him for 1 at bat. It was infuriating to watch as a Red Sox fan.

Condor · « **Reply #73 on:** October 09, 2006, 01:35:03 PM »

maybe I'm biased, being a Twins fan, but I still think Morneau deserves serious consideration for MVP.

kh300 · « **Reply #74 on:** October 09, 2006, 08:34:09 PM »

ortiz has no shot. he doesn only one thing, hit home runs. only a few were solo shots, so theres your rbi's. not to mention half his home runs were hit to right field at fenway park. a routine flyball out anywhere else in the league. ortiz said a few weeks ago that "he deserved to be mvp because jeter only does good because he gets protection from the other guys in the yankee lineup. he then said jeter couldnt do anything in the red sox lineup, because it's weaker." not to mention a few other things. now how is putting down your team make you an mvp? to get back to the yankees getting killed by the tigers. ill probably get flammed for saying this but, i cant believe nobody is questioning things like how kenny rogers was hitting 94mph, when he is consistant at 86. its one thing when you have a few good games, it another when theres a sudden surge in power.