Author Topic: Dips (Read 7999 times)

davie · « **on:** October 13, 2006, 03:07:55 AM »

Hey guys, after the recent pushups post on 'gossip' page i wandered how many of u like/dislike dips and chins as u like/dislike pushups.
Iv always kinda agreed with mentzer wen he said he thought dips wer the upper body version of a squat?!
It is probably one of the only upper body exercises that can effect most of the upper body, how many of u choose not to do them or on the flip side, make them a staple of your routine (not saying wether u do them for chest or tris)

?

On that same train of thought i posted workout from friend (well a guys my dad knew) who used to love his contact sports rugby/martial arts, and had wanted to try out for army placement (as much to c if he was fit enough as anything), he adapted his normal bodybuilding routine to keep the basics (clean,rows/deads/bench/shoulder press), and then used body weight (or with added weight) chine and dips and pushups to build muscle and muscular endurance needed for his contact sports and the army.

He did Cleans, shoulder press and T-bar rows on monday (rotated with deadlifts) 3 or 4 sets of each then he would do 4 sets weighted dips and weighted chins, and pressups (weighted dips and chins with minimum of 10 reps).

Wednesday was legs (pretty normal leg routine) with high and low reps.

Friday was Db bench (mayb incline aswell), BB shrugs, about 4 sets of each. Then 4 sets weighted dips and weighted chins, and pressups (weighted dips and chins with minimum of 10 reps).

tusday thursday he did sum interval work. he grew well on this, sumhow. though i never really signed up for that sort of thing.

davie

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2006, 10:44:38 AM »

weighted dips are a true mass builder for the Tris. I don't do them every workout but Don't go that long with out doing them either. Pushups however I don't ever do...maybe to warm up or i do them standing in between sets to flex the pectorals.

theoperator · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2006, 03:15:53 PM »

i have a dip machine at my gym....are those still good...it is basically the same movement just not free weight. u just sit down and seat belt urself in so ur but doesnt rise up and then the rest is just like a normal dip. what do u think?

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2006, 03:18:51 PM »

Quote from: theoperator on October 13, 2006, 03:15:53 PM

i have a dip machine at my gym....are those still good...it is basically the same movement just not free weight. u just sit down and seat belt urself in so ur but doesnt rise up and then the rest is just like a normal dip. what do u think?

good but not AS good. most machines i've seen don't go THAT heavy unless it its plate loaded. Even some of the plate loaded ones you can't fit much on. nothing really compares to weighted dips IMO.

danielson · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2006, 03:24:06 PM »

Quote from: theoperator on October 13, 2006, 03:15:53 PM

i have a dip machine at my gym....are those still good...it is basically the same movement just not free weight. u just sit down and seat belt urself in so ur but doesnt rise up and then the rest is just like a normal dip. what do u think?

That is by far my favorite machine for tri's. Weighted dips can get messy if you go to failure. Close gripped bench is my favorite overall exercise for tri's.

davie · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2006, 04:12:44 PM »

What about that routine i posted??

Massbuilder but from athletic view aswell?

davie

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2006, 04:21:59 PM »

thumbs down IMO.

JPM · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2006, 04:55:56 PM »

If anyone would like to discover the benefits of dips as one of the superior movement for upper body growth than try GVT (10X10's). Have dip's (bwt) as the only exercise done for the chest, delts and triceps during a 4-6 week period of GVT. Twice a week workouts. And if your extra cool, try chins along with dips on a GVT program.

There is a old theory about the positive effect of moving a body through space while exercising. As opposed to having a body stationary while exercising. This idea works well with dips & chins (one of the reasons that dips & chins are harder to do at first). From my experience, in most cases, weighted dips & chins have the potentional for outstanding results as a replacement, from time to time, over tbe BP and lat machine pulldowns,etc. A dip (or chinning) machine can be stunted in it's ability to build the most muscle mass. Dip/chinning machines can be a good tool for weaker beginners but as soon as strength is increased, than regular dips/chins should be applied.

Davie's Bud doesn't have equal training time for the lower body. Leg's,hips and lower back/abs are just about everything for a athletes. Might consider DL's or SLDL's also. Everything centers or starts from there....core training. Current presented program could be a mass builder but those tuesday/thursday things may be a waste of time as far as recovery goes. Good Luck.

davie · « **Reply #8 on:** October 15, 2006, 12:04:21 PM »

Thanks JPM, constructive as usual.

You r right about the lower body but on that day about 15 sets would b done for legs. He was (and i think still is) in the positions similar to myself that because of work, sports training/playing etc....only 3 days a week can be given to the gym. So because of that wednesday is the day picked for lower body.
Deadlifts are done every 2nd week.

Main muscles worked on monday=BACK/SHOULDERS ........ Cleans, shoulder press and T-bar rows on monday (rotated with deadlifts) 3 or 4 sets of each (up to 8 sets done for each) then he would do 4 sets weighted dips and weighted chins, and pressups (weighted dips and chins with minimum of 10 reps).

Wednesday was legs (pretty normal leg routine) with high and low reps.

Main muscles worked on Friday=CHEST/TRAPS ........ Db bench (mayb incline aswell), BB shrugs, about 4 sets of each (up to 8 sets for each). Then 4 sets weighted dips and weighted chins, and pressups (weighted dips and chins with minimum of 10 reps).

Tuesday/thursdays done like that as i have rugby training then??

Should be ok for a mass builder?

davie

davie · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2006, 05:38:13 AM »

Well lets hope so lol.

davie

pumpster · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2006, 07:04:54 AM »

Quote

good but not AS good. most machines i've seen don't go THAT heavy unless it its plate loaded. Even some of the plate loaded ones you can't fit much on. nothing really compares to weighted dips IMO.

Better to say they're similar yet different. Some prefer the machines, some don't, because they hit the muscles differently just as pulldowns & chins do.

davie · « **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2006, 07:58:18 AM »

AND JPM i also agree with the theory of moving the body through space as being v effective. I mean look at squats and deadlifts. i no it is the legs wer the movement comes from, and this results in moving your hole body through space. And they are 2 of the best exercises there are.
I also love cleans aswell as clean and press. It seem that squats,deads, cleans/cleans and press, dips and chins are some of the best exercises ther are and they all center around moving the hole body during the exercise.

davie

pumpster · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:39:21 AM »

They're different, not better. For some, dips are hell on the shoulders.

JPM · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:16:57 AM »

They have been proven to be bettrer, time after time, for most trainee's. Any possible shoulder problem usually occurs when the body is lowered too far down, getting a abnormal stretch to the shoulder structure. When some serious weight is attached to the dipping belt, without a proper warm-up and a overextended stretch, than the possibility of an injury may be possible. If one has a V dipping bar for example, different width's and hand positions can be used to suit anyone's needs. Different and better is what most BB'ers are looking for. Good Luck.

pumpster · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:47:13 AM »

Nope. If that was true great BBs would only use the "better" versions, which isn't happening-they use alternatives for various reasons that include greater effectiveness, better targetting of a desired area and lessened or no trauma to the joints. Myself i don't like dips because (1) they aren't as effective and (2) they're quite harsh on the shoulders (for some).

This immediately prevents anyone else from making blanket statements for everyone else, thanks.

Those who don't experience this shouldn't presume to speak for others, it's just plain arrogant.

BTW no one has a V-bar - this is another false presumption.

kicker · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:53:05 AM »

Weighted dips are the best in terms of triceps strength and mass imo, even better than close grip bench.

pumpster · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:54:14 AM »

Weighted bench dips can be better for targetting the tris vs. the mix of chest n' tris from regular dips, and are 100% easier on the joints, for the many who don't like or find dips useful. Bench dips, a fave of Fox & Schwarzenegger for tris, are akin to machine dips, not regular dips. Dillet uses machine dips.

Schwarzenegger used regular dips primarily for lower chest-dips done properly for chest don't involve the tris as much, precisely why the V-bar can be better for chest work.

davie · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2006, 10:20:29 AM »

You Gotta love a good heated debate, lol.

davie

JPM · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2006, 10:47:55 AM »

No debate. Just letting The Pumpster contradict himself again. Some times it's too easy. But than again, I must have pity on the gentleman, his understanding and reading abilities of what other people write may be a little limited. Hope this helps...from the heart, Good Luck.

pumpster · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2006, 01:51:24 PM »

Yet another JPM meltdown thanks to insecurities: vindictivess from this BEEOTCH in lieu of content. A real pro!

Hey JPM since you know so much why don't you find us a source for the V-dip bar you keep recommending but have never used. If you have one in your gym share a pic with us i'd like to see this. hahaahahahahahah

JPM · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2006, 03:43:01 PM »

A couple of sites that offer 'V' dipping bars. www.LarryScott.com and www.thefitnesscompany.co m.uk. Either wall mounted or on a stand. Vince Gironda had many pec workouts designed around the 'V' dipping bar.With pictures or drawing of this piece of equipment in some of his articles. Larry Scott and most of the guy's who trained at Vince's used them. Hit's the pec's in a totally new direction when different hand positions are used. The one I had trained on had hand gripping handles that turned 360 degrees. Good for keeping the knuckles inwards when dipping. Also with the knuckles facing forward giving a whole new feel and stretch to inner and lower pec development. Great also for the three heads of the triceps, when positioned correctly. And outstanding delts. Seen a lot of old time BB'ers workout photo's where their using a 'V' bar.

The one I worked on was built in a machine shop. Crude and not pretty, but it had a very important influence of building deep and thick pec's for a lot of guy's.. I stopped using this device because the pec's were becoming too big for my needs. There are some other's in some gym's, that are considered hardcore, made from heavy tubed steel. I train in a converted (expanded) three car garage with limited membership. Heavy duty, with most of the equipment (power rack, cable/lat machines, benches, etc) made in a welding or machine shop (pre fab shop). Much cheaped and designed to take a lot of punishment and abuse. Good Luck.

Side Bar: It's really not too cool to say meltdown anymore on this site.

pumpster · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2006, 04:43:51 PM »

As i expected, he doesn't have the v-bar in his own gym, despite all the rhetoric about it, which is in fact mainly to promote his own knowledge. One of those sites is in the UK. If he really cared about this and followed his own long-winded babbling, he'd have built another for others to use since supposedly "his chest is too big".

Any chance of another earthquake anywhere near where you live?

AVBG · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:35:31 PM »

as I workout at home, I do dips as a central exercise in chest and (& a variation) for tri workouts. Chins are # 1 for my back workout. I alternate between weighted and BW workouts and vary the reps accordingly.

davie · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2006, 02:45:30 AM »

Iv always done dips elbows pretty close. In my gym the bar rotates and is either about shoulder width apart or a coule inches wider than that, wen turned wider the elbows naturally go out during the dupping motion (never really liked that so much), iv never tried dips knuckles foreward.
With chins ( i do them at home straight after normal gym sesh) would it matter if my palms wer facing each other, i mean would that effect the lat work??

davie

Jr. Yates · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:38:53 PM »

Quote from: davie on October 17, 2006, 02:45:30 AM

With chins ( i do them at home straight after normal gym sesh) would it matter if my palms wer facing each other, i mean would that effect the lat work??

davie

Grips always change what gets hit, especially with back training. I think doing chins with a close grip(palms facing eachother) stretches the lats more and allows you to hit the lower region as opposed to regular wide grip chins hitting more the top of the lat and center of the back.....i think haha.

Author Topic: Dips (Read 7999 times)

AVBG