Author Topic: Question on barbell rows...  (Read 1764 times)

TheEgoCrusher

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 759
Question on barbell rows...
« on: October 17, 2006, 07:14:23 PM »
I've always been very strong (for my weight) in most back movements.  I don't deadlift very often and can hit 455 for 4 (and that's doing them once every 6 months).  I can dumbell row 150's for 6 clean reps and do wide grip chins with 80 pounds belted on to me for reps. 

I want to start doing barbell rows instead of the T-Bar.  Everytime I do them, though, my lower-back feels like it's in an awkward position.  It just doesn't feel right.  I tried them on the Smith Machine tonight and it felt better but I'm still worried about injuring my lower-back.

For those of you with tons of experience doing barbell rows, what are things one can do to insure that they are doing them with correct form, lessening their chance for injury?  How wide should my feet be?  Should I fixate my vision straight ahead or be looking slightly up? 

Any suggestions or tips are very appreciated.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 08:21:22 PM »
JaeJonna will have you doing 315 for 12 at a bodyweight of 85 pounds in no time!

Princess L

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • I stop for turtles
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2006, 08:27:19 PM »

I want to start doing barbell rows instead of the T-Bar.  Everytime I do them, though, my lower-back feels like it's in an awkward position.  It just doesn't feel right.  I tried them on the Smith Machine tonight and it felt better but I'm still worried about injuring my lower-back.

For those of you with tons of experience doing barbell rows, what are things one can do to insure that they are doing them with correct form, lessening their chance for injury?  How wide should my feet be?  Should I fixate my vision straight ahead or be looking slightly up? 

Any suggestions or tips are very appreciated.

Feet about shoulder width, back relatively flat, neutral spine.
Learn to bend at the hips (stick your booty out) not at the waist.
:

TheEgoCrusher

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 759
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2006, 08:43:27 PM »
I did 315 for 8 reps on the Smith Machine at 193 today but it still didn't feel right.

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2006, 09:02:01 PM »
Quote
For those of you with tons of experience doing barbell rows, what are things one can do to insure that they are doing them with correct form, lessening their chance for injury?  How wide should my feet be?  Should I fixate my vision straight ahead or be looking slightly up? 

Any suggestions or tips are very appreciated.

Try:
-Better warmups including lower back.
-Different bent-over angles: bent much further over or bent over less, closer to standing up, see which if either helps.
-Use the following alternatives if nothing else works:
1/ One-arm DB rows with the other arm braced against something.
2/ Hammer rows.
3/ Lying bench rows.
4/ Supported T-bars
5/ Pulley rows, using a pulley that is raised 1-2' above the floor.
6/ Continue with standard T-bars-better than BB rows IMO, both for isolation and easier on the lower back.

All of these are much easier on the bod and IMO they are more effective in isolating the lats.

Princess L

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • I stop for turtles
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2006, 09:08:08 PM »
Try:
-Better warmups including lower back.
-Different bent-over angles: bent much further over or bent over less, closer to standing up, see which if either helps.
-Use the following alternatives if nothing else works:
1/ One-arm DB rows with the other arm braced against something.
2/ Hammer rows.
3/ Lying bench rows.
4/ Supported T-bars

All of these are much easier on the bod and IMO they are all more effective in isolating the lats.

Something kinda spooky/weird about that room.  That guy looks kinda creepy too.  :-\
:

Jr. Yates

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4646
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2006, 09:17:40 PM »
what grip are you using?? underhand or overhand...i find with an overhand grip i tend to want to lean over more for some reason and and underhand grip i do with perfect form. maybe its just me but my grip definatly changes my form.
bodybuildersreality.com

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2006, 09:26:55 PM »
Something kinda spooky/weird about that room.  That guy looks kinda creepy too.  :-\
That's vintage fagster  :D

u know Im just messin man.
Getting back on topic, let me post the description for my preferred way to do Rows.

It's called the Pendaly Row-
You start out with the bar resting on the ground with your lower back held strictly parallel to the ground and the upper back a little loose. Pull to the stomach explosively, arching the upper back simultaneously to allow for more explosivness, without letting the lower back move. Rest the bar back on the ground and repeat.

Never had any problems with the lower back doing Rows this way, unlike 45 degree Rows that did irritate my lower back sometimes. Plus IMO it is the best way to bb row in order to stimulate the lats.

Here is a more detailed description:
Quote
Rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.

This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls…you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.

The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.

I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.

Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.

i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.
follow the arrows

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 10:15:56 PM »
Quote
Pull to the stomach explosively, arching the upper back simultaneously to allow for more explosivness, without letting the lower back move. Rest the bar back on the ground and repeat.
Sounds something like cable rows, in which momentum's beneficial for unsupported rows vs. too strict a motion that isn't as effective and that can hurt the back.

Unsupported rows are a good example of something that runs completely contrary to the theory that all movements are better done strictly (not).

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2006, 11:02:32 AM »
Makes sense. Keeping the back completely still while doing rows can be a real bitch, as the amount of weight is severely decreased. With P.rows, that little arch in the middle back gets the movement going without compromising form. Atleast thats how I look at it.
follow the arrows

sarcasm

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12318
  • The Luke loves Dungeons and Dragons
Re: Question on barbell rows...
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2006, 03:32:17 PM »
Sounds something like cable rows, in which momentum's beneficial for unsupported rows vs. too strict a motion that isn't as effective and that can hurt the back.

Unsupported rows are a good example of something that runs completely contrary to the theory that all movements are better done strictly (not).
exactly, super strict form is a fallacy on most exercises.
Jaejonna rows 125!!