Author Topic: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq  (Read 3726 times)

AlliedPowers

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10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« on: October 18, 2006, 09:47:55 AM »
BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military reported Wednesday that 10 American troops had been killed the day, raising the death toll so far this month to 69 and putting October on track to be the deadliest month for coalition forces since January 2005.

The nine U.S. soldiers and one Marine were killed by roadside bombs and enemy fire in and around the capital on Tuesday, the military reported.

The sharp rise in deaths comes as the U.S. has increased the number of troops in the Baghdad area to try to stop the spiraling sectarian and insurgent violence engulfing the city of some 6 million people.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15314207/

Dos Equis

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2006, 11:12:23 AM »
Dang.  This is awful. 

Clubber Lang

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2006, 01:31:44 PM »
how many civilians were killed in the same timeframe?

Victor VonDoom

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2006, 01:32:46 PM »
Behold your folly!  Fools!

Doom disapproves.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2006, 03:57:09 PM »
when will this shit stop? its already been going on 3 years! when will these fucking moronic assholes in power get their heads out of their asses and do something????

when u go to war you have to be 100% commited. either you give it 100% or u dont do it at all. we could have done this right in less than one year if we had wanted to, if they had commited the neccessary force(not that we should even have gone there at all).

instead we have an inadequate force basically just holding the seams shut while the government FUCKS AROUND...and they will keep dying in steady numbers unless something changes, and they are dying basically for nothing.

what a disgraceful waste.

pumpster

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2006, 04:49:03 PM »
A civil war might've been unavoidable after the removal of a dictator, it's hard to tell. On that basis it's fair to leave, let them sort it out, especially in the absence of any sustained real effort on their part to get it together, for so long now.

Jeff Miller

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2006, 04:26:19 AM »
when u go to war you have to be 100% commited. either you give it 100% or u dont do it at all. we could have done this right in less than one year if we had wanted to, if they had commited the neccessary force(not that we should even have gone there at all).

U = FUCKTARD

Enjoy.
ChuckNorrisFearsMe

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 07:08:44 AM »
U = FUCKTARD
Enjoy.

Miller, don't be one of those guys who attacks the messenger but can't debate the message.  How is matrix wrong here?

jaejonna

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 07:16:23 AM »
I voted Gore, then Kerry....thank you red states
L

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 07:16:36 AM »
  Hey Miller--your avatar suits you well.

Jeff Miller

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2006, 12:03:49 AM »
Miller, don't be one of those guys who attacks the messenger but can't debate the message.  How is matrix wrong here?

I don't really need to elaborate.  It's glaringly obvious that this guy has no idea about military theory or strategy, nor of the capabilities of our military.

I'm on the ground in Baghdad smelling the burning trash every day.

Debating this would be like trying to explain to my dog why he shouldn't eat poop.
ChuckNorrisFearsMe

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 12:10:24 AM »
come home dude.

24KT

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2006, 03:12:58 AM »
I don't really need to elaborate.  It's glaringly obvious that this guy has no idea about military theory or strategy, nor of the capabilities of our military.

I'm on the ground in Baghdad smelling the burning trash every day.

Debating this would be like trying to explain to my dog why he shouldn't eat poop.

Stay Safe Jeff.  :)
w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2006, 03:17:02 AM »
1st strategy:  Don't make up Bullshit Lies to get into a Bullshit War.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2006, 03:40:25 AM »
Maybe John is a little right.  What he said isn't far off from what many Generals have said and right on with Powell's famous doctrine... General Franks initially started plans with 385,000 troops and that number got chewed to shit by Rumsfeld. General Shinseki who had experience with peacekeeping in Bosnia said that it would take several hundred thousand troops, Wolfowitz said to congress that Shinseki was full of shit and not that many troops would be needed because, QUOTE: "the Iraqis will welcome the Americans"  ::) Shinseki was then retired and his Army Secretary, Fired. And today, we hear over and over Bush seemingly hiding behind the Gernerals... Every question on Iraqi war strategy gets refered to them.  Bush adds that anything the Generals want, they can have but they need to tell him what they want.  He's listening to the Generals he says...  ::)

Jeff Miller

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2006, 06:14:46 AM »
Maybe John is a little right.  What he said isn't far off from what many Generals have said and right on with Powell's famous doctrine... General Franks initially started plans with 385,000 troops and that number got chewed to shit by Rumsfeld. General Shinseki who had experience with peacekeeping in Bosnia said that it would take several hundred thousand troops, Wolfowitz said to congress that Shinseki was full of shit and not that many troops would be needed because, QUOTE: "the Iraqis will welcome the Americans"  ::) Shinseki was then retired and his Army Secretary, Fired. And today, we hear over and over Bush seemingly hiding behind the Gernerals... Every question on Iraqi war strategy gets refered to them.  Bush adds that anything the Generals want, they can have but they need to tell him what they want.  He's listening to the Generals he says...  ::)

Iraq = Insurgency, not Peacekeeping.  We are fighting a counterinsurgency, much like Vietnam (though we didn't realize it at the time) or Malaya for the British.

Iraqis welcome anyone that will kick their ass; they LOVED us when we rolled in here in 2003 and crushed their army.  The strategy used would dictate the troop levels required.  I guarantee that if we dealt with insurgents like Saddam would have, we would need fewer troops.  One U.S. tank company has more firepower than the entire Army of Northern Virginia in the Civil War.

And every question SHOULD get referred to the generals.  Being President uniquely qualifies you to make ultimate command decisions, but not to understand them.
ChuckNorrisFearsMe

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2006, 06:25:06 AM »
I'm sure the Kurds loved it, ...the Shiites were iffy, but I betcha the Sunni's thought it sucked.

Now the Kurds are iffy, the Shiites are saying get the hell out, and the Sunni's wish you were all dead.  :-\

...but I'm sure in another few months there will be consensus throughout all the ethnic groups in Iraq
w

bmacsys

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2006, 07:05:39 AM »
I am a conservative at heart but watching this quagmire unfold its clear to me that it was a blunder of epic proportions. We owe it to the Iraqi's to finish the job but the way we are going about it it ain't gonna happen. We need about 200,000 more soldiers for that. So do you escelate this war or leave and cut your losses and look like FOOLS.
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Jeff Miller

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2006, 07:39:34 AM »
It is all up to the Iraqi government.

If they can unfuck themselves, put tribal/sectarian/personal agendas aside, and come together as a decisive legislative and executive body, then Iraq has a chance and we could pull out.  Leaving before the government is stabilized and operating at a minimum level of effectiveness will just create a power vacuum in the middle east, which will be filled by any of its neighbors.  Iran, for instance, would just love to make Iraq into a parking lot for its military vehicles or storage space for its nukes.

Military action is necessary so that political action can affect change.  Don't believe the news -- ever.  They either have agendas or a snapsot of a SNAPSHOT of what is really going on.  The media wants people to focus on the loss of life and the "futility" of what we are doing.  THIS IS A COUNTERINSURGENCY, NOT A CONVENTIONAL WAR.  Body counts and stats mean dick.  What matters is the endstate and that, in the meantime, the military and political forces conduct themselves with dignity and respect for the people.  We could win this tomorrow if we threw our values to the wind and fought like the insurgents we are trying to quell, intimidating families and killing innocents.  We pay a price for fighting honorably.
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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2006, 08:18:50 AM »
Major Change Expected In Strategy for Iraq War
Friday, October 20, 2006

The growing doubts among GOP lawmakers about the administration's Iraq strategy, coupled with the prospect of Democratic wins in next month's midterm elections, will soon force the Bush administration to abandon its open-ended commitment to the war, according to lawmakers in both parties, foreign policy experts and others involved in policymaking.

Senior figures in both parties are coming to the conclusion that the Bush administration will be unable to achieve its goal of a stable, democratic Iraq within a politically feasible time frame. Agitation is growing in Congress for alternatives to the administration's strategy of keeping Iraq in one piece and getting its security forces up and running while 140,000 U.S. troops try to keep a lid on rapidly spreading sectarian violence.

 
 
On the campaign trail, Democratic candidates are hammering Republican candidates for backing a failed Iraq policy, and GOP defense of the war is growing muted. A new NBC-Wall Street Journal poll released this week showed that voters are more confident in Democrats' ability to handle the Iraq war than the Republicans' -- a reversal from the last election.

Few officials in either party are talking about an immediate pullout of U.S. combat troops. But interest appears to be growing in several broad ideas. One would be some kind of effort to divide the country along regional lines. Another, favored by many Democrats, is a gradual withdrawal of troops over a set period of time. A third would be a dramatic scaling-back of U.S. ambitions in Iraq, giving up on democracy and focusing only on stability.

Many senior Republicans with close ties to the administration also believe that essential to a successful strategy in Iraq are an aggressive new diplomatic initiative to secure a Middle East peace settlement and a new effort to engage Iraq's neighbors, such as Syria and Iran, in helping stabilize the country -- perhaps through an international conference.

One point on which adherents of these sharply different approaches appear to agree is that "staying the course" is fast becoming a dead letter. "I don't believe that we can continue based on an open-ended, unconditional presence," said Sen. Olympia J. Snowe, a centrist Maine Republican. "I don't think there's any question about that, that there will be a change" in the U.S. strategy in Iraq after next month's elections.

Richard N. Haass, a former Bush administration foreign policy official, told reporters yesterday that the situation is reaching a "tipping point" both in Iraq and in U.S. politics. "More of essentially the same is going to be a policy that very few people are going to be able to support," said Haass, now the president of the Council on Foreign Relations. He added that the administration's current Iraq strategy "has virtually no chance of succeeding" and predicted that "change will come."

Many Senate Republicans are waiting for the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group, a bipartisan panel co-chaired by former secretary of state James A. Baker III, a Republican, and former Indiana congressman Lee H. Hamilton, a Democrat. Both Baker and Hamilton have made it clear that they do not see the administration's current Iraq policy as working -- though they do not plan to issue recommendations until well after the midterm elections, probably in early January.

Many foreign policy experts believe that the commission could sway President Bush more than most such study groups because of Baker's close ties to the Bush family.

In an interview this week, Hamilton said there is no "silver bullet" to turning the situation around in Iraq but noted that frustration is clearly rising over the current course. "I can't walk out the door without someone handing me a recommendation," he said.

Sen. John E. Sununu (R-N.H.), a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said he is open to "significant changes" in the U.S. approach and is hoping the Iraq Study Group can supply them. "I don't think anyone in the administration is pleased about the current state of affairs," he said. "I would hope that members of the administration are willing to learn from past mistakes . . . and choose a different path that would allow us to meet our objectives."

How open Bush will be to a change in course is unclear, even as the violence escalates -- this week has been one of the bloodiest for Americans in Baghdad in months. In recent remarks about Iraq, Bush has sounded a more flexible tone, saying he is open to suggestions for changes and emphasizing that his commanders adjust tactics constantly. He has repeatedly made it clear that U.S. patience with the new Iraqi government is not open-ended.

White House officials describe the current turmoil over Iraq policy in Washington as an expected byproduct of the upsurge in violence. Press secretary Tony Snow yesterday dismissed a dramatic about-face in policy -- such as a division of the country or phased withdrawal -- as a "non-starter" and called the idea that the White House will seek a course correction in Iraq "a bunch of hooey."

Bush has been adamant that the United States will not withdraw its troops until the Iraqi government can defend itself.

 
Like many who have met with the president in recent months to discuss Iraq policy, author and military expert Robert Kaplan said he detected clear limits to Bush's flexibility. "He seemed genuinely to enjoy the challenges to his policy that we threw at him," Kaplan said, describing a session Bush held with several outside strategists at Camp David in June. "He wasn't at all defensive. He appeared open to any new direction or tactic, except withdrawal, and yet that is what he might be faced with after November."

Along with the political debate, there also is growing frustration inside the U.S. military over Iraq, with some officers debating privately whether the situation there is salvageable. In recent weeks, senior military officers have offered a torrent of negative comments, a sharp contrast to the official optimism of the past three years.

"We're obviously very concerned about what we're seeing" in Baghdad, Army Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, said yesterday. He indicated that changes to a plan to restore security to the capital are being considered. "We find the insurgent elements, the extremists, are in fact punching back hard," Caldwell said.

In recent days, the demand for change on Iraq has been especially notable from inside the president's party: Sen. John W. Warner (R-Va.), the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, returned from a trip to Iraq saying that country was adrift and all options should be considered. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, a conservative Republican from Texas, said this week that she is willing to consider the wisdom of somehow breaking up Iraq.

Until now, Democrats' calls for withdrawing troops have been largely irrelevant, but if Democrats take one or both houses of Congress next month, their views could become significant in shaping strategy.

Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), who would take over the chairmanship of the Armed Services Committee, said he favors beginning a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops that "gives the Iraqis notice that they're going to be looking into the abyss" unless they make necessary changes.

One version of this option was presented to House Democrats last month by former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, who outlined a four-step plan that would include a joint declaration by the U.S. and Iraqi governments on a timeline for the departure of U.S. troops, a follow-up international conference on stabilizing Iraq and a greater focus on economic reconstruction.

Rep. Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.), who is campaigning to become the new majority leader should Democrats take power, said many in his caucus like the idea behind the Brzezinski plan, though perhaps not all the specifics. "The Iraqis have to understand that there is a time frame," he said. "Our commitment is substantial, but it is not unending."

People familiar with the work of the Iraq Study Group say it is also mulling a variant of the gradual withdrawal idea that would move U.S. troops out of Iraq but leave a residual force in the region to keep the violence from spreading and Iraq's neighbors from meddling.

Another idea getting a closer look is a new power-sharing agreement that would give more power to autonomous regions -- Kurdish in the north, Sunni in the middle and Shiite in the south -- while weakening the central government. This idea is most closely identified with Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.), the senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, and Leslie H. Gelb, a former president of the Council on Foreign Relations. Because there is no oil in what would be the Sunni-controlled area, Biden and Gelb envision some sort of scheme to share oil revenue with the Sunnis to get them to agree to such a plan.

Biden said yesterday that if the Democrats win big in next month's elections, "You have a lot of Republicans who are going to openly join Democrats and will push back hard against the president."

bmacsys

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2006, 08:30:01 AM »
It is all up to the Iraqi government.

If they can unfuck themselves, put tribal/sectarian/personal agendas aside, and come together as a decisive legislative and executive body, then Iraq has a chance and we could pull out. 

Jeff, you make good points. I just don't think these people can "unfuck" themselves. I really don't think the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis can form an effective government. I think the warlords like in Afghanistan will do all they can to scuttle any peace. Forget scum like that Sadr guy ever doing anything constructive.
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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2006, 12:44:28 PM »
1st strategy:  Don't make up Bullshit Lies to get into a Bullshit War.

Hey Berserker, STFU, it's people like you who spew the BS and aid in an attempt to bring down the moral of our military >:(!

Camel Jockey

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2006, 01:12:17 PM »
The war is a lost cause. Why waste more and more American lives? That country is going to the dogs and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
The US should bail and let Iraq go to the dogs.

Clubber Lang

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2006, 01:17:31 PM »
if anyone thinks this war was actually about WMD's and helping iraqis they are a fool. the us built permanent bases over there for a reason, the US isnt going anywhere but other countries in the region. the us hasnt, never planned on and wont bring democracy, the us is bringing walmart.


Camel Jockey

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Re: 10 U.S. troops killed during one day in Iraq
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2006, 01:23:23 PM »
if anyone thinks this war was actually about WMD's and helping iraqis they are a fool. the us built permanent bases over there for a reason, the US isnt going anywhere but other countries in the region. the us hasnt, never planned on and wont bring democracy, the us is bringing walmart.



Well the US wants a strong presecence in the Middle East to keep an eye on Iran.